423 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Dr. Mark Gordon

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast Episode 423: Review of Dr. Mark Gordon Release Date: January 30, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 423 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast, hosts Adam Thorne and his co-host delve deep into their analysis of Joe Rogan's interview with Dr. Mark Gordon, a leading expert in neuro-regenerative medicine and the treatment of traumatic brain injuries (TBI). The hosts aim to unpack the dense medical terminology and complex concepts discussed, making them accessible to Rogan fans and listeners interested in cutting-edge health topics.

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Dr. Mark Gordon’s Expertise and Contributions

Dr. Mark Gordon serves as the Medical Director of Education at Access Medical Laboratory, specializing in neuro-regenerative medicine and the treatment of TBIs. His work focuses on understanding and mitigating the long-term effects of brain injuries, particularly through hormonal balance and reducing inflammation.

• Hormonal Imbalances Post-TBI: Dr. Gordon explains that TBIs can disrupt the production of crucial hormones such as testosterone and thyroid hormones, leading to significant physiological and cognitive deficits. He states, "Insulin-like growth factor 1 is the main below-the-neck growth factor for our body, improving protein synthesis and decreasing inflammation" ([02:00]).

• Mitochondrial Replication: A key point discussed is the role of quercetin in increasing mitochondrial replication. Dr. Gordon notes, "Quercetin doubles the amount of mitochondria intracellularly in about seven days, enhancing liver function and IGF binding protein 3" ([01:33]).

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Inflammation and Neurodegenerative Diseases

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the relationship between chronic inflammation and neurodegenerative diseases such as Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) and Alzheimer's.

• Chronic Inflammation: Dr. Gordon emphasizes that inflammation is a root cause of many neurological disorders. The hosts highlight his point: "Chronic inflammation is a factor in these neurodegenerative diseases," explained at ([09:52]).

• Personalized Treatment Approaches: The conversation underscores the importance of individualized treatments over the conventional "one-size-fits-all" methods. Adam Thorne remarks, "Why are we not personalizing medical care in general?" ([20:22]).

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Critique of Conventional Medicine

The hosts critique the current healthcare system for its inability to address the underlying causes of diseases, focusing instead on symptom management.

• Symptom vs. Root Cause: Adam Thorne asserts, "Conventional medical care is treating symptoms only, not looking at the whole person" ([27:00]).

• Integrative Medicine: Dr. Gordon advocates for an integrative approach that combines modern medicine with alternative therapies to provide comprehensive care. The co-host notes, "Mark Gordon argues for a more integrative approach, combining modern medicine with alternative therapies" ([26:31]).

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Lifestyle Factors and Hormonal Health

The discussion highlights how lifestyle choices such as diet, exercise, and stress management are pivotal in maintaining hormonal balance and reducing inflammation.

• Diet and Supplements: The hosts explore the impact of diet on inflammation, mentioning supplements like turmeric and the importance of a Mediterranean diet. "Incorporating things like high-intensity interval training can enhance your cognitive health," Adam Thorne advises ([13:09]).

• Exercise: Regular physical activity is linked to improved hormone levels and reduced inflammation. The co-host emphasizes, "Physically pushing yourself can maintain hormonal balance and cognitive function" ([13:09]).

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Broader Healthcare Implications

The episode extends its analysis to the systemic issues within the American healthcare system, advocating for reforms that prioritize patient well-being over profit.

• Economic Barriers: The hosts discuss the high costs of personalized medicine, noting, "We need healthcare that's meant for improving our lives, not just fixing problems as they arise" ([33:12]).

• COVID-19 Response Critique: They critique the government's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, arguing that the focus should have been on improving overall public health rather than solely on emergency measures. "Rather than saying, let's get you healthy so you can fight this," Adam Thorne criticizes ([27:25]).

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Additional Insights and Tangential Topics

While the primary focus remains on Dr. Gordon's expertise and the healthcare system, the hosts briefly venture into other areas discussed in the original Joe Rogan episode, such as UFOs and their cultural impact. However, these topics are secondary to the health-centric discussions and serve as contextual diversions rather than focal points.

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Conclusions and Key Takeaways

Episode 423 provides a comprehensive analysis of Joe Rogan's interview with Dr. Mark Gordon, shedding light on the intricate connections between traumatic brain injuries, hormonal health, and chronic inflammation. The hosts advocate for a shift towards personalized and integrative medical approaches, emphasizing the need for systemic healthcare reforms that prioritize holistic well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• "Quercetin doubles the amount of mitochondria intracellularly in about seven days, enhancing liver function and IGF binding protein 3." — Dr. Mark Gordon ([01:33])

• "Conventional medical care is treating symptoms only, not looking at the whole person." — Adam Thorne ([27:00])

• "Chronic inflammation is a factor in these neurodegenerative diseases." — Dr. Mark Gordon ([09:52])

• "Why are we not personalizing medical care in general?" — Adam Thorne ([20:22])

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Final Thoughts

Adam Thorne and his co-host successfully break down complex medical discussions, making them accessible and engaging for listeners. Their insightful critiques and forward-thinking perspectives encourage a re-evaluation of current healthcare practices, advocating for a more personalized and integrative approach to medicine.

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Connect with the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast: For more detailed analyses and episode reviews, consider supporting the podcast on Patreon. Patrons gain access to ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and interactive Q&A sessions.

Transcript

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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead.

[Adam Thorne]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

[T-Mobile Representative]

What a bizarre thing we've created now.

[Adam Thorne]

With your host Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast.

[Co-Host]

Or the best one. One go.

[Podcast Host]

Enjoy the show.

[Dr. Mark Gordon]

So in all these inflammatory conditions they have the same beta amyloid and cause for CTE. The hyperphospholated tau protein that we call NFTs neurofibril tangles. So they're all related. So what quercetin does is it increases mitochondrial replication in about seven days doubles the amount of mitochondria intracellularly. It helps increase in the liver something called IGF binding protein 3 insulin like binding protein 3 binding protein 3 is always looked at as being the carrier for IGF 1 insulin like growth factor growth hormone turns on and delivered the production of insulin like growth factor which is the main below the neck growth factor for our body improves protein synthesis, decreases inflammation too wow.

[Co-Host]

Okay. There you go. That's Dr. Mark Gordon talking to Joe Rogan. And boy, does he know his stuff. Wow. Can you make sense of any of that?

[Adam Thorne]

It just kind of brought me back to, you know, feeling a bit overwhelmed during this episode.

[Co-Host]

I need a diagram for all that. I want to give a quick shout out, though, before we get into it, to a couple of our new Patreons. Mimi and Cameron, thanks a lot for signing up. If you're interested in supporting the show, find the link to our Patreon in the bio of this episode. We really appreciate it. There's all kinds of goodies over there. There's ad free episodes, special episodes, different reviews, some classic reviews, and we'll be doing things like Q and A's, things like that in the future. So thanks for the support. Yeah. So Dr. Mark Gordon is medical Director of Education at Access Medical Laboratory. Specialization is neuro regenerative medicine, treatment of traumatic brain injuries, tbi. And I actually have a good friend that knows Mark and has worked with him, and he's an ex retired Special Forces guy. And Mark has really helped him out with his TBI and leveled him. And, yeah, the guy's doing good work.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, he's got a lot of enthusiasm for his work, you can tell. And obviously he's changing lives, healing people from things that they, you know, never expected to have to deal with in their life. But yeah, this. This episode, as I was saying before, is like, quite dense in terms of, like, the medical terminology, the. You heard in that clip. Like, that's just like a short bit of it. And it was a mouthful, right, like, so I think it was. It was nice to sort of take a step back and break this down and sort of find, like, the. The main points of it and to sort of wrap my head around, like, what this work is and what he's doing and. Yeah, I'm excited to jump in.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Well, I mean, in that clip that opened up, it's kind of, you know, where it all began in the conversation of, like, how TBIs disrupt hormonal production, which I believe is like, fairly new understanding. And, you know, but maybe within a decade or so, and you know, how this leads to kind of like deficiencies in testosterone and thyroid hormones, which for men are very, very important. I've even heard of cases to where individuals that have suffered tbis can't produce any of their own testosterone or human growth hormone. So you can imagine the effects that has through the system.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, yeah, I mean, hormones regulate everything and even Your reproductive hormones, they, they regulate your ability to sleep and your appetite, your energy, cognitive function. Yeah, that, you know, everything is kind of based on the, the quality and the production levels of your hormones, you know, them being balanced. And so when you have something like that happens in an instant. Say, you know, you say you're in, you know, the force, you know, in the armed forces, and you, you know, have this moment where you're affected by a traumatic brain injury. It's like you, you experience symptoms for that for the rest of your life. It's not like it's just, oh, once that brain bleed heals. Right. Like it goes away. These are long term, you know, prolonged issues that these people are having in their, their life altering so.

[Co-Host]

Well, back in, I believe, World War I, they used to call it shell shock.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

So these poor guys would get back from war and they, back then, medicine knew nothing about what to do for these guys and the suffering was unimaginable.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's great that there's at least some discussion about it, that they're doing research on it. You know, it'll be interesting to see, you know, under the Trump administration and the talk about what they're doing to help with, you know, the emotional impacts of, you know, those that have served, what they're dealing with, like how, what the physical things they're going to start helping with as well. For example, tbis that happen. I mean, obviously there's other instances where people receive TBIs. Professional sports, you know, car accidents, you know, things like that, tragedies. But like other, you know, careers, people that work in construction and so on, they end up with these accidental, you.

[Co-Host]

Know, but people that, I wonder, does CTE count as a tbi?

[Adam Thorne]

I don't know.

[Co-Host]

That's a brain injury.

[Adam Thorne]

But I think that it has similar.

[Co-Host]

Maybe those build up over time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they didn't really talk about it, but like repeated concussions basically causes ct, which is a disease in the brain.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

Would, I would assume, assume has, you know, from what I know, like they, they, the symptoms overlap for sure. Like they're very similar. So. But in terms of our veterans, like what are they doing to help these veterans, you know, get treatments that maybe aren't mainstream? Are they helping cover the cost of some of these experimental treatments and the research and the education for them on it?

[Co-Host]

Yeah, well, you know, talking about covering cost, shout out to Joe. He's a big, obviously a huge supporter of this type of work. Yeah, he's known Dr. Gordon for a long time. It just bringing him on his show obviously gives. I mean, that's often enough for any individual because it's just so many ears hear the podcast, then you get support. But Joe himself has supported the organization and helped out a great deal, which is, which is very cool because he doesn't take a lot of credit for those sorts of things.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. One thing I found really interesting that I learned, you know, about TBIs is that, you know, they are the symptoms that people are experiencing. They maybe don't understand that it is related to their hormone issues and it's sort of a new thing to them. Right. And so this research is bringing that to light. I think it's like you said, them coming on here and talking about it on this large scale audience platform. I think it's going to help a lot of people even just understand what's going on with them and know where to begin.

[Co-Host]

Well, you know, if you think that, oh, I have a brain injury from this event, you know, and often it's, you know, it could be like an id, some explosion that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, as a military person experiences. And there's other ways. Obviously you can get TBIs, but you know, you're thinking, oh, I act this way now or I feel this way now because of this brain injury.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-Host]

And it's very limiting for the individual. It takes a lot of kind of their power away just thinking, well, my brain is the way it is. However it turns out, it's more likely to be hormones and just leveling them out can make huge differences for the individual.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-Host]

It just shows how complicated to the whole system is.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. You know, they sort of rolled the conversation of TBIs into the concept of the fact, you know, of inflammation of any kind and its role in, you know, neurological disorders as a whole. Talking about just chronic inflammation in general being a factor in these neurodegenerative. That's a mouthful. Diseases.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And even like Alzheimer's.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, so it's. Yeah, they talked a bit about managing it obviously through like medication, but you know, a lot. Even more about like diet and supplements and like more natural, like naturopathic and holistic ways to manage these, this inflammation that's creating a disease in your brain basically. That's a scary thought of like things that you're doing. I mean, you know that we talk a lot about these, you know, you hear a lot about alcohol and like what that does to our body and the amount of inflammation.

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[Adam Thorne]

Poison, basically that pours into our bodies when we drink. I mean I love a gin and tonic as much as the next person in a margarita, but like when you think about the effects it can actually have, it's like, what is it worth? And so hearing what they had to say about it, it was a bit eye opening.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, I mean I've heard references to, you know, doctors making references saying chronic inflammation or just, you know, long term inflammation is like the cause of all diseases. It's like the starting point. It just, it just overtakes the system and everything starts to fall apart. You know, keeping an eye on your inflammation throughout your life, especially when they connected to your brain breaking down and Alzheimer's. I mean it's something that, that people, you know, want to start taking more seriously. You know, it makes me think about it. Get some turmeric. I think that's good.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's as simple as, you know, trying a new like workout plan. Right. They, they talked about like high intensity interval training and strength training and, and the benefits that like really pushing yourself physically, how that can affect your like brain function and the balance that you have hormonally also maintains your skeletal strength. And the health of your skeleton and all that, you know, just incorporating something new like that into your workout routine or just starting it, you know, if you aren't working out, it can really enhance your cognitive health. Right.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. It does make you think, like, how much we consider aging, you know, is actually just long term inflammation.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And what I mean by that is, you know, at a certain age, like, you know, when I go back to England, you know, a lot of my family are there. I haven't seen them for a while. My uncles are getting older, and you see some of them and they seem a lot younger than others.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And it's. The ages are either similar or maybe even inverse. It's, it's, you know, you'll, you'll talk to some of them and you can tell that their, their minds are slowing down and, and the conversations are just, just a little bit different. And it's like. Is all this, like an impact of lifelong inflammation through these people? I wonder if it could be tracked like that.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, yeah, I mean, your family loves a pint, you know, so it's, I mean, I think it's a cultural thing here in England. I am. So it's the truth. Right. I mean, and I mean, I think a lot of people experience that I just drink one pint a day or, you know, one glass of wine, two glasses of wine, it's not that bad. But when you start it, like in England at 16, and you do it daily until you're 68, like you can have some information. Yeah. And your brain is like, just like on fire all the time. And it's affecting your hormone balance, which affects your physical, you know, health and sort of. It's this like full circle thing. Your gut health. Right. And that goes back to the way your brain functions. Yeah, it's. It's really an interesting, you know, when you. Yeah. This, this whole thing sort of. Did you ever. You remember that show we watched on Netflix about the blue zones?

[Co-Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And I feel like there's a lot of overlap in that too. So if you guys haven't seen. It's like how to live to be 100, I think is what it was called. And it was very interesting. But a lot of it came down to like, you know, physical activity, being social, and like having something to like live for. But I think it was like, I mean, nutrition, of course, was a huge piece of it, but those, all those things sort of aid in longevity. And he sort of talked a lot about that in, as terms of like, you know, personalizing Approaches to minimize inflammation in the brain.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

Those that are having these. But if you think about it, like, ideally, you would start this from the beginning of your life and grow up in an area that, like, prioritizes these things. And I think in America, we experience it a lot more.

[Co-Host]

The problem is we're so resistant to things when we're young.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, it's like you're 21, you're in college, just started to drink, going out, partying.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, you can throw back a lot and mostly function the next day.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And, you know, it goes the same for a lot of things.

[Adam Thorne]

But then in America, it's like we're not getting up, walking three quarters of a mile to the bus stop or to work and not every walking home. You know, we're not walking uphill. We're not eating a Mediterranean diet. We're having a cheeseburger. We're sitting on the couch or watching Netflix. Like, you know, we're recovering. Like, we just don't have this lifestyle of, like, you know, life is. There's challenges that we have to handle. Like, we sort of find the easy way out. We get food delivered and, you know, groceries delivered. And like, obviously, you know, we don't even, like, get out and buy anything anymore because it all is delivered from Amazon. And when you come to Europe, there's a lot more of that. When you come to these other places that they like, some of the ones they talk about in this show and this how to live to be 100. And so I think you can kind of counteract the effects of things like alcohol with lifestyle factors.

[Co-Host]

Sure. If you're. If you're walking all day and walking hills and moderately drinking, you're gonna be far more effective than moderately drinking and sat on a couch or just sat on a couch eating Cheetos all the time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I mean, you know, it's. It's a balance of all of it. The other one of the big takeaways from this, which. Which was in a way kind of new, is the idea of customized treatments.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, you think about going to a doctor and they're like, oh, you're sick. Here's an antibiotic.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

It's like, well, do you know that that will work right for me? They're like, oh, it works for all the people.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Or take this supplement or X, Y and Z. Whereas he's saying, well, I look at this and it's, you know, instead of a one size fits all approach, he looks at lab tests, he looks at Just general deficiencies, you know, mineral or otherwise, and supplements, those, it's like a package that is for the individual and obviously that's more expensive kind of science medicine. But I really hope things start going that way. Yeah, I really hope that they start doing individual profiles of like, this is great for you. I mean, some people are allergic to certain medications and you know, they don't find that out until they take it and there's a reaction.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, like I said, they. In these like personalized treatment approaches, there was a big emphasis on the lifestyle as well. Like not just like, let's figure out what's going on, but it's like, what are you do, what are you doing that you need to fix in your life? And I think it, it varies person to person. You know, we can't group everyone together and say, oh, everyone needs to exercise more, everyone needs to like eat differently. But yeah, I mean, obviously hormones, like we talked about, play a huge role. Everyone has different things that they can improve on to balance those hormones out.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, of course. I mean even down to we were talking about the other day, they do genetic tests now and it's not basically like food allergies or different allergies, you know, just to know that for yourself, remove those things which were probably consuming and you're not thinking about and just seeing kind of where the benefit is. I mean, I think just on a, on an inflammatory level that would be very beneficial. That's probably what's happening right when you have allergies.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it just makes me wonder like, why are we not doing this from the get go? Why are we not personalizing medical care in general?

[Co-Host]

It's hard to do. It takes a lot more time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I think that the, as technology evolves, you know, AI becomes more prominent and it's used in healthcare settings, it's going to become easier and more cost effective to, to, to dive into everyone's like individual, you know, like health charts and say like, okay, let's do you know, a panoramic view of what's going on inside of you. Let's do all of these tests. Have you ever seen like, for instance, you can go to like, like Turkey, like go to Istanbul or go to like, I don't know, some, some kind. I sound so ignorant. Go like to another country besides America, of course, and, and get like this whole like scan done, this like full metabolic panel, like all of these tests done and it's like $12,000 or something, or not even $6,000.

[Co-Host]

Quite a lot cheaper, Significantly cheaper.

[Adam Thorne]

And you just pay for it. It's this like luxury, like health care facility and you do all these testing and it, you know, costs less to like take a vacation there, get it all done than it does to like have any of these tests singularly done in, in the United States.

[Co-Host]

Well, it's still way out of the reach.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Even if it's discounted. But what I like about it is it is a different approach to like us, almost western medicine. It's like this very personalized tested, full body scan, everything. I really hope that they start to get so many benefits from it. You know, get all the data, all the research and then all medical institutes around the world just go, we need to change it up. What we're doing isn't working. Let's start doing it like this.

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[Co-Host]

And you know, as technology improves, all of those processes will get cheaper and more available.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's a question here of like, do we have the ability to do that now? Is the healthcare system failing us, you know, in the way we, you know, it's been talked about before on the, on Joe's podcast many a times about how, you know, conventional medical care is like treating symptoms only it's not looking at the whole person. It's not saying, you know, so say someone with the TBI goes in and they say, oh, I've got this pain in my neck and in my back and it, you know, whatever. Like, they're like, okay, well let's get you physical therapy and let's blah, blah, blah. It's like they're not treating what's actually happening and they're not thinking, okay, they have this tbi. It could be affecting their inflammation markers as a whole. You know, maybe it's something that we can do on a chemical level to fix the physical problems that they're experiencing. No, we're just going to address the physical problem.

[Co-Host]

Well, think about it like this. You get back from war.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, combat. You have the tbi. The VA has done a little bit of something. Mostly painkillers for you.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And then you're like, I'm going to therapy or to see a psychiatrist. And then they're just like, well, you sound depressed. So here's an antibiotic. Sorry, not antibiotic. Antidepressant.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

When really it's entirely a hormonal issue. Like, it's complicated. Psychiatrists wouldn't know that. That's not their job to even put it together. But it comes back to that idea of just, like, the whole system and understanding it.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I can imagine. Even when it, like, as far as the hormone, the. The power that hormones have, you know, you think about. I mean, half the population, females, the majority of them experience at some point perimenopause or menopause symptoms. And it's, like, extremely, like, uncomfortable. It is a drastic shift in your hormones. And there's a lot of physical side effects of going through menopause or, you know, perimenopause, which was, like, prior. And it's not really conventional medicine to treat the hormones of it. It's, let's give you a hysterectomy, let's cut out all of your organs, let's make it go away entirely, and then, you know, it'll basically be over with quicker. There's not a lot of insurance policies that actually cover, like, bioidentical hormone therapy for women, unless there is, like, a serious medical issue. Like, they've had, gosh, I don't know, like. Like, you know, reproductive problems, like during their reproductive years. Right. Like, trying to manage that. And even then sometimes, I mean, you know, it not. You know, what is the word? Like, IVF and stuff. It's almost never covered when people are having hormone imbalances and they want to have a baby. And that's the root cause. Right. But what I'm getting at is, like, they'll say, like, oh, well, it's just like this physical thing take, you know, do. Do. Let's physically alter your body rather than look at you on a chemical level and give you something that could actually fix it without being so invasive.

[Co-Host]

They love surgery.

[Adam Thorne]

God, I love surgery.

[Co-Host]

Do you love surgery? Well, that's why Mark Gordon argues for, like, a more integrative approach, you know, combining medicine, modern medicine, which, you know, has a lot of uses, obviously, with more alternative therapies.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Because it just gives people a better chance. Like, you know, you got hormones, inflammation, brain function, you know, it's all connected, but it's rarely treated together. Yeah, it's just like, we just do one thing at a time. And in a lot of ways, you cause in a bunch of different problems. And the poor patient doesn't know because that's not their job to know.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-Host]

They're just there, the doctors.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Why we need rfk. Come on, buddy.

[Adam Thorne]

I know.

[Co-Host]

Get in there.

[Adam Thorne]

It's interesting. I mean, I think we all probably have every single person listening, including you and I, have something that. It's like this. We've experienced this failure in our healthcare system where you go to the doctor and you say to some degree, something's going on. And I think that it's related to this thing that's happened in my past. And they're like, okay, well, let's just put you on this medication. Let's just. Let's just numb you or whatever.

[Co-Host]

Have you tried ibuprofen?

[Adam Thorne]

Have you thought about spending $2,000 this year on physical therapy? Like, and that's not really, really what you need. Right. They just, like, wanna, you know, and I think insurance makes it trickier. But, yeah, it really boils down to. Is, like you said, we need someone who's gonna advocate for change on a systemic level. You know, someone who believes that we are. What's the word? I don't want to say, like, worthy, but like humans and the people in. I mean, I'll say America just because that's, like, where we're from. But, like. And I feel like American health care is lacking a lot. It's valuable to fix people. Right. It's not like, yes, there's money in medication, in medication, there's money in pharmaceuticals. There's money in, like, break, fix, right? Like, that's how a lot of business models are. Something breaks, you fix it. Just that problem. You don't, like, improve the product to not break again.

[Co-Host]

That's the problem with too much money.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but we, you know. Yeah, it's. It's just unfortunate. And I mean, I think that there's a lot of benefit to it. People could be, you know, like, once they physically are feeling better, I think a lot of people will mentally be in better places cognitively. We'll have less people on disability. We'll have less people, you know, people able to work more and. And be more productive in their laboring. There's so many benefits to, like, people feeling good and being healthy. And I think that was like, you know, this is, like, kind of off the rail and off topic, but I think that was our big issue. That was my big issue with what was going on during, like, the marketing of how we were going to slow the spread of COVID Right. It wasn't, let's get you healthy so you can fight this. It's like our. Our population is so sick. We have to basically confine you to your home. You're not allowed to see anyone, even your family, the newborn babies in your family, like, anything like that. Let's completely alter society because our people are so sick and unhealthy physically that we are going to. It's worth ruining their mental health over. Right. Rather than saying, you know, and then obviously there was like this, these lies in the marketing of. Let's. This. If you. All you got to do is take this vaccine, take this medication, it's going to fix everything. No one's going to get sick anymore. And obviously that was a lie.

[Co-Host]

Like, that wasn't the truth even for them to suggest. You know, they could have sent packages out to everybody with vitamin D and very cheap, maybe some other basic supplements. Yeah. Also run some commercials on TV saying, hey, this is lockdown. We're doing these things. But here's some exercises you can do.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

At any level of physical fitness, you can start very slow, just move, you know, try and stay away from these sorts of foods. Just little bits of advice. But the problem is when you start doing that, one, you're empowering the people, which they did not want to do.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-Host]

And two, you're suggesting that there are other ways that you can get healthy. And they wanted everything to be that fucking shot.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like Munchausen's on steroids.

[Co-Host]

Gross. Right?

[Adam Thorne]

They want to keep us ill enough that we can't.

[Co-Host]

That we need them.

[Adam Thorne]

That we need them. That we need these systems that they have in place that we can't answer for ourselves and that we can't stand up for ourselves.

[Co-Host]

Daddy, government will save us.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And, you know, oh, yes. 603 times is going to be enough to like, make up for the fact that I don't get to go to work. I've missed all this time I didn't get to visit my dying grandmother in the hospital. You know, like, it was so, so mind blowing that they could even justify how they did it. And I mean, you know, at the beginning, I think a lot of people were scared and they were like, oh, my God. Yeah. Like, we're gonna listen, we're gonna do what they say. But then as it all started to come out and the data was revealed that this vaccine actually didn't do what they promised it would do. It was like, okay, well, what the. What the heck? Like, you had to have known. You know, you don't just, like, say something like make a claim about a medical treatment and then not, like, be like it, not be truthful. But what you do know is that the number one co, you know, comorbidity with dying of COVID was obesity. So it's like, let's act on that. Let's say, let's challenge it. You get a hundred dollars for every £20 you lose or £10 you lose or something.

[Co-Host]

If RFK was in charge of our medicine.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

During that time, that would have been the direction we would have taken. And someone like Fauci wouldn't be there. You know, RFK wrote the book the real Anthony Fauci. Like, he is not a fan of that guy. We would have completely moved away from it. And look, the COVID thing, it's being a dead horse. We've talked about it a million times. But, you know, it does beg the question that, like, we saw what happened.

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[Co-Host]

We saw how they think and I say they like pharmaceutical companies and governments that. Or government individuals that being paid by lobbyists to do it. So now go back to say what Dr. Mark Gordon's doing. And it's like, well, how does that play in. Yeah, you know, I mean, they've been giving these veterans opioids for some time and all those nasty drugs that make a lot of money. Well, now we have these other treatments and, you know, does it fit in to their economic plans? And that's where it gets slippery.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I mean, they aren't stakeholders in hormone therapy companies. Right. They're stakeholders in pharmaceutical companies. And it's. It's sad. And I really look forward to the day when it's. We actually have health care that's meant for improving our lives.

[Co-Host]

That's Coming.

[Adam Thorne]

I really so hopeful.

[Co-Host]

I think that, you know, the really nasty stuff is not going to be pushed under the rug and it's going to be addressed. And it's hard, Hard to deny it when. When you're faced with it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

You know, we've basically just been waiting for Netflix documentaries to come out to tell us how awful some of this shit is.

[Adam Thorne]

I know. I feel like such a. Like a. Like a. Like a ape sometimes. I'm like, what? This is real?

[Co-Host]

What? Especially when you hear it happen, like, three years ago. What. Where was I? What is going on?

[Adam Thorne]

Like, I'm always on the Internet. Why am I just hearing about this now? I mean, obviously it's because our algorithms tell us what we want to see and what we like, but it doesn't. Like, new information, doesn't just, like, jump in there. Right. Like, it's tricky.

[Co-Host]

Well, true to. True to Joe's style. I mean, it wasn't all TBI's, of course. He jumps over to UFOs, abductions, Bigfoot. I don't know how he manages to just could base, like, really smoothly, just transition over that. I think he just likes to test every guest and be like, where are they on UFOs?

[Adam Thorne]

UFOs are Joe's Roman Empire. You know, that concept. Yeah. Like, he never stops thinking about it.

[Co-Host]

Ah. He's always on it. And it was fascinating because, you know, again, they're talking about, like, the UFO abduction stories, right? Which were very popular back in the day. And, you know, is it. Was it real? Is it a dream? Was it sleep paralysis? You know, when people are taken from their bed and this whole thing. But, you know, it's kind of interesting now with, like, the UAP story and we're seeing these UAPs, and they were kind of naming them drones. It's. It's like we're a little more detached from the little green men idea and the abduction idea. And I'm wondering how they, like, play into each other. I mean, if we're to believe at all. Was it was there just this time 30, 40 years ago, where the aliens were actually just abducting people. What then they got bored. They're like, we're not doing anymore.

[Adam Thorne]

I'm so inclined to think that there's, like, an explanation, right? I'm like, it was something in the water, right? Like, this whole town, right? When the whole town sees a spaceship landing and aliens running around, I'm like, they all were stoned. Something got burned. A field of mushrooms got lit on fire, and they all were Hallucinating.

[Co-Host]

Some poured LSD in the wards of supply.

[Adam Thorne]

Just didn't know. Right. You know, but then there's.

[Co-Host]

That kind of happened with the Salem Witch trials.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. It was Urgot. When Joe's talked about it a bunch, like growing on the bread or the wheat or something, everyone was tripping a little bit.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly. So I'm inclined to think there's an explanation, but I think. I wouldn't say I'm like a. Not a believer. I think I just like, don't have a fear about it that, like, it's not explainable. I do think people are telling the truth, that they've. They remember these experiences, that these experiences felt real to them. Right. But they aren't. It's not like I'm me sitting across from you right now. Clear. You know what I mean? It's like there's always some question what. What gets me? Which also I find that there could be explanations for, but is like, the physical evidence. So, you know, radiation burns, like, waking up with, like, new wounds or scars.

[Co-Host]

Mm. You know, people used to say that they had like an implant or a piece of metal in them.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, again, I'm like, did they get really fucked up and tripping, fall. Right. Like, did they have an explosion? They got a traumatic brain injury and somehow they have a physical burn from that and they just like, woke up and somehow put together that they were abducted by an alien and then this new burn came from this alien, you know, doing tests on them, like. Yeah. I'm just so inclined to think there's an explanation. But some of the stories, I'm like, I got nothing. I have absolutely no idea how, you know, people wake up, you know, and report that they're miles away from their home, no memory of how they got there. They're missing 12 hours of time. And I mean, I don't know, it.

[Co-Host]

Could have just also been like, the government's been trying to cover up the idea of UFO stuff for a long time. Project Blue Book, I think. And, you know, they send people out to tell people to shut up and not go to the press and kind of makes you think, what was it? Like the military just abducting people and.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Flying their spacecrafts and doing those things. It's. I don't know. I can tell what. Joe is so interested and fascinated in it all the time. It just is one of those fun rabbit hole conspiracies. You're just like, okay, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, of all the big issues we have facing, you Know that we face day to day, you know, the food that we eat, the poison in our food, the health care system, the, you know, corruption in our government.

[Co-Host]

We got a lot to think about.

[Adam Thorne]

Not being able to afford a home. Like, all these things that Americans are facing. Absolutely. Joe's gonna get to the bottom of the UFO account. Yeah. You know, I. I think, you know, kind of the final. The final point on this is like, how does this relate back to obviously, like, your.

[Co-Host]

Your.

[Adam Thorne]

The TBI question, right? And like, neurological disorders that people experience after they claim they've been. They've had an interaction with a UFO or with extraterrestrial beings. And like, they, you know, people talk about having PTSD and. Or they. They get diagnosed with ptsd and it's like, you don't just, like, wake up with that, right? Like, something has to happen. And there. There is like, obviously some screening and testing to be done to, like, diagnose people with it, but, you know, they have gone through something traumatic, and maybe these. These stories about something that's unexplained are sort of this. Like, they've crafted it in their head to cover up something else that they don't want to accept about their life. Does that make sense? Like, possibly, you know, like an abusive partner, like, oh, my partner abused me, and I just wanted to, like, blank it out. And, you know, so I came up with this fabricated story about aliens. I don't know, like, because. Or maybe they did experience a traumatic brain injury being hit with something, or they tripped and fell down the stairs.

[Co-Host]

You know, they were actually abducted by aliens or they were actually on the saw. Aliens came back and went, holy shit, I have ptsd. Because that was terrifying.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, this is. These are moments, like, stories like this, and the idea of, like, something could happen to us out of our control is. Is part of the reason why, like, I want to always have, like, a GoPro on me. Like, I want to record my whole life, day to day, and I want it to, like, be in, like, flash sequence at the end of every day for, like, 20 minutes. I can sit down and watch everything.

[Co-Host]

Get those meta glasses.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Co-Host]

But you know what?

[Adam Thorne]

I think abducted, they just take them off. So it's got to be, like, what.

[Co-Host]

I think is interesting about something like that. And maybe in the future there will be things that augment our brain and record a lot more. It would be cool to try and match it up with our memory because we always think, like, if you think back to yesterday, you're like, yeah, I got I remember what happened.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And then, you know, further back, weeks, months, you don't have all the details for everything, but you're pretty sure about some memories at some time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

But if you also had an accompanying perfect high definition recording of the event and then you're like, you recount what you think happened. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's that, that was it. That's what you said for sure. And that's how it went. And that's where you were sat. And then you play it back. I wonder how close it is. You could average that out with a lot of people's memories and what actually happened.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

It would be fascinating to find out that we're like 25% off all the time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I mean, self perception is skewed. Like I saw a statistic one time that was like, you know, when you look in the mirror, you see yourself 30% more attractive than other people see you. Right. And that always boggled my mind. I'm like, well, really?

[Co-Host]

Because, well, I think if you have maybe a positive attitude towards yourself, maybe.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe there is something about mindset.

[Co-Host]

There's some beautiful people that can look in the mirror and they look long enough, they see a lot of imperfections.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right with that. But you know, any, like, I'm just saying, like the, the differential between what you think happened and what other people think happened or what the reality is. Yeah, I think it's very variable and so it's subjective. It's very subjective. And there's no way to say like, oh, you're 100% like going to be right all the time just because you think so, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and even like dreams, like dreams are so obscure. And so if you love your phone.

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[Adam Thorne]

You know, part of me wants to like, know what happened. Like, no, like have like a visual recording of my dream.

[Co-Host]

I think that they're close to doing that, honestly, I don't.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but like, dreams are so much feeling, right? Like they're more feelings than they are visuals. Like a lot of times, like, you.

[Co-Host]

Know, when you, well, you get scared.

[Adam Thorne]

You get scared and like you're like, I don't know why I was scared, but I just had this like scared feeling. Or, you know, it's like you tell me all the time, like we were in this room, but like it, you wasn't you, but it was you. And it's like the more of like a feeling of who this person is and like what they mean to you than the physical person themselves.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

So I feel like having a visual record of our dreams could actually skew the impact that like dream analysis could have on like us bettering ourselves or actually like resolving things that we're going through.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, potentially. But also, there's a huge memory problem with dreams. Yeah, it's like they say if you don't write it down right away. I mean, dreams are designed to be kind of forgotten. That's why some people say they never remember their dreams. But we know we're doing it every night. I think a little video of what happened. You know, I don't know how they construct it with AI probably and brainwave scans and. But a little video might be able to spark that memory again. You kind of fill in the pieces and then you're just like, oh, I keep dreaming about that. Imagine you and then you can sit, maybe you even sit and talk with a therapist about it and discuss. Like, go over the dream and be like, this is happening.

[Adam Thorne]

How cool to be. You wake up and like AI creates.

[Co-Host]

Like a little movie trailer.

[Adam Thorne]

Like a little movie trailer, like with music and totally clips of everything that you dreamed about. And it's like, tune in for this and this day, you know, like, how cool would that be? And then you could like watch the long form version if it was interesting.

[Co-Host]

Unless you're having some wacky dreams and you'd be like, oh, no, I need to talk to somebody. Yeah, crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

That would be a good indicator of like, oh, these dreams are worth like looking into. Right? Like, just like if you, when you watch a movie trailer, like, yeah, that piques my interest or like that gets me excited or that scares me, but I like it.

[Co-Host]

You know, start showing dreams that aren't cool or interesting at all. You just like sat on a couch reading a book. It's like, wait, I just dreamt about that?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

One thing I want to finish up with, you know, back to just kind of health Benefits of different things. He talked about ivermectin, which we know has been demonized recently and through Covid, obviously Joe took some major heat for it. It's a well tested drug. It's been prescribed billions of times. It's. I think it's anti parasitic.

[Adam Thorne]

Right, Parasitic.

[Co-Host]

Is that right? Yep. And effective there. But now new studies are being done as a potential anti cancer drug. And it's very interesting because it's already really good for like the anti parasitic thing that have been links to it being effective against Covid. And, you know, finally people can start to say, yes, it is doing something useful there. Also, we know it's safe because again, it's been around a long time, it's highly tested, and now it could be an anti cancer drug. That's fascinating. Imagine if they won the war of demonizing ivermectin, we would never find that out.

[Adam Thorne]

No, I mean, it's interesting. Like of. Of all the prescription medications that they do push, like, why is this one so demonized? Like, what is so bad about this one?

[Co-Host]

Because they were connecting it to being an alternative treatment to Covid and they had to crush all of those ideas. Otherwise you can't do the emergency freaking vaccine making authorization thing.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Nasty, nasty stuff.

[Adam Thorne]

I. I don't know. Again, like, maybe I'm just like a skeptic of everything, but I have a hard time believing that there is this like, magical solution out there that's gonna fix everything without side effects. Right. And so potentially there is a place for it. Like, obviously chemotherapy has side effects, so people are, you know, go into remission with cancer through chemotherapy. But so potentially there is, you know, you mix ivermectin with cancer and there's.

[Co-Host]

But it's cool to find a really safe drug.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-Host]

That. It works for a lot of people.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And, you know, could also have these other effects. I mean, that's awesome. Yeah, I wanna, I wanna see more of that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it would be really cool to see it, you know, pushed and, and researched and developed for the purpose of like, being used to treat things on a wide scale. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-Host]

Anyway, Dr. Gordon Legend. Great to have him back on. So good to see and to hear that, you know, still working hard, helping lots of people, changing lives, and it's beautiful stuff. Thank you all for listening. We appreciate it, as always. Again, check out the Patreon. We love the support and we'll talk to you soon.

[Adam Thorne]

Cheers, y'all.

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