442 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Jeremy and Eduardo Harris

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast - Episode 442 Summary: Jeremy and Eduardo Harris

Release Date: May 5, 2025

The 442nd episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast delves deep into the discussion between Jeremy and Eduardo Harris on Joe Rogan's show. Hosts Adam Thorne and Sean Houlan unpack the key themes, insights, and concerns raised by Jeremy and Eduardo, particularly focusing on the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) and their societal implications.

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1. Overview of Jeremy and Eduardo Harris's Discussion

Jeremy and Eduardo Harris bring a refreshing perspective to the Joe Rogan Experience, diverging from the typically academic tone seen in other expert guests. Instead of engaging in heated debates, they present their insights in a casual yet intelligent manner.

• Casual Expertise: Sean Houlan remarks, "They were both really smart... they were just super casual about it" (01:57).

• Critique of Academia: The brothers critique the pressures and integrity issues within the academic world, highlighting practices like adding famous names to scientific papers for legitimacy (04:20). Sean shares his personal experience, stating, "I've known that there's been like some weird shit in academia" (03:45).

2. AI Advancements and Their Implications

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the rapid evolution of AI and its potential consequences.

• Exponential Growth: Adam Thorne emphasizes the swift progress of AI, noting, "It's doubling every four months... it's getting really fast at doing what we can do anyway" (06:41).

• Quantum Computing Integration: The conversation touches on how quantum computing could further accelerate AI capabilities. Adam muses, "If [quantum computers] can do it with some calculations, could it eventually not do it with all of them?" (07:57).

• Manufacturing Caps: Sean discusses the limitations in chip production essential for AI development, stating, "There's a manufacturing cap on how big, fast, and big you can build these things" (08:27).

3. China vs. US in the AI Race

The hosts examine the contrasting approaches of China and the United States in advancing AI technology.

• China's Aggressive AI Strategy: Sean highlights China's substantial investment, saying, "You have the government spending hundreds of billions of dollars on this, just trying to get ahead in this race" (08:27).

• US Challenges: They discuss the United States' slower pace due to infrastructural and regulatory limitations, with Adam pointing out, "The power grid in Texas is like going down often" (15:04).

4. Energy Consumption and AI Data Centers

The sustainability of AI growth is a pressing concern, particularly regarding energy consumption.

• Nuclear Power vs. Renewables: Sean advocates for nuclear energy as a reliable source for powering AI data centers, contrasting it with the inefficiencies of wind and solar power. He states, "I think nuclear is a great solution... totally safer with new technology" (16:59).

• Data Center Power Needs: The discussion underscores the immense energy requirements of AI data centers, noting, "One of these data centers takes like at least one, if not a couple of gigawatts to run" (12:13).

5. Social Media Manipulation and Bots

The conversation shifts to the pervasive influence of bots on social media platforms and their role in shaping public opinion.

• Bot-Driven Content: Sean explains how bots can distort perceived public consensus, saying, "They just make thousands of these bots... and then people see content that they post and comments" (21:40).

• Elon Musk's Intervention: They discuss Elon Musk's efforts to combat bots on Twitter, highlighting the removal of potentially 70% of bots, which Sean critiques as "propaganda" (28:47).

6. Future of AI and Automation

Looking ahead, Adam and Sean ponder the broader implications of widespread AI and automation.

• Superintelligence Concerns: Sean voices apprehension about reaching superintelligent AI, stating, "I think it's going to happen a lot sooner than people think it's going to happen" (35:34).

• Impact on Employment and Purpose: They debate the future landscape of work, contemplating, "Where's your purpose if a robot is doing everything for you?" (41:31).

• Ethical and Regulatory Needs: The necessity for ethical guidelines and government intervention is emphasized, with Sean urging, "We need to have a cohesive conversation about... how can we make this the best case scenario for us to work together with AI" (47:03).

7. Monopolies and Planned Obsolescence

The hosts critique the monopolistic practices and planned obsolescence prevalent in various industries.

• Telecommunications Monopolies: Sean highlights the lack of competition in internet providers, remarking, "There's only one provider... why are there not multiple options?" (53:14).

• Planned Obsolescence Examples: They discuss how companies deliberately limit product lifespans for profit, with Sean noting, "They knew exactly how to make light bulbs that last forever, but you make more money if they go out after 10 years" (54:14).

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Adam and Sean reflect on the multifaceted challenges posed by AI and modern technological practices.

• Uncertain Path Ahead: Adam concludes, "AI guys, I don't know what to think. Good, bad. I'm optimistic it could go any direction" (55:17).

• Call to Action: Sean encourages listeners to engage more deeply with the topics discussed, stating, "If you're curious about some of the stuff that they're working on and you want to get more involved, check out their website" (55:35).

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Notable Quotes

• Sean Houlan on AI's rapid advancement:

  "AI is achieving 50% success on hour-long tasks... it's doubling every four months." (06:41)

• Adam Thorne on social media bots:

  "They were like, oh, well, you know, legit. At least they were a part of it." (04:08)

• Sean Houlan on nuclear energy as a solution:

  "I think nuclear is a great solution and it's really lazy that we haven't done anything about it." (16:59)

• Adam Thorne on AI's impact on human purpose:

  "Where's your purpose if a robot is doing everything for you?" (41:31)

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Key Takeaways

• AI's Exponential Growth: AI technology is advancing at an unprecedented rate, with significant implications for society, economy, and global power dynamics.

• Energy Sustainability: The fueling of AI data centers remains a critical challenge, necessitating sustainable energy solutions like nuclear power.

• Social Media Integrity: The manipulation of social media through bots poses a threat to genuine public discourse and democracy.

• Ethical and Regulatory Imperatives: There is an urgent need for ethical frameworks and regulatory measures to guide AI development and prevent misuse.

• Monopolistic Practices: Dominance by a few corporations in various industries stifles competition and innovation, often at the expense of consumers.

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For Joe Rogan and AI enthusiasts, this episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the current AI landscape, highlighting both the potential benefits and existential risks. Hosts Adam Thorne and Sean Houlan provide valuable insights, encouraging listeners to remain informed and proactive in shaping the future of technology.

Transcript

[Dutch Vet]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Adam Thorne]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host, Adam Thorne.

[Sean Houlan]

This might either be the worst podcast.

[Adam Thorne]

Or the best one of all time. One go. Enjoy the show. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Mostly gentlemen, let's be honest. But yeah, we are here to do the Joe Rogan experience review. Episode 23 11, Jeremy and Eduardo Harris. AI joined this week by good old Sean.

[Sean Houlan]

Hello, everyone.

[Adam Thorne]

Sean the ex. Intern.

[Sean Houlan]

Ex intern. Yeah, I was fired.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, he was not, but after what he has not remembered about podcasting, maybe you should have been.

[Sean Houlan]

Soon to be. Soon to be fired.

[Adam Thorne]

Doing good. Yeah. What. What was your take on these guys? Have you heard of them before? They've been on Rogan before.

[Sean Houlan]

I didn't know that they've been on Rogan before. I was a big fan of them, though. I feel like at first I thought it was a debate when you showed it to me at first because it was like a long podcast and there was two dudes.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

This is going to be a heated debate. But no, they were. They were both really smart. I thought it was funny too. They're both like young guys. A lot of the time when Joe gets in experts, they're like, yes, the Chinese Communist Party is interfering with our intelligence. And then these guys are just like, yeah, CCP is with our shit. Like, they were just like super casual about it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. They don't have that, like, academic eloquence, let's say.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, but clearly smart, though.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, but, but that's. They have the way of communicating. Right. They're not. They're not like tied to a university.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Where they know that their credibility in most part is coming from the fact that they're on Rogan and people like listening to them.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Which is a smart way of oriented.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. And they talked a lot about the problems with the academic route of things. Just like how hard it is and the pressures that people get pushed into and where funding comes from. And like the one that they were talking about how if you have like a scientific paper that you want to get recognized, you'll just add some well known dude to your paper who didn't contribute at all. But people see his name and they're like, oh, this must be legit and like pay them for that and stuff like that's kind of crazy. I didn't know that that was going on. I'm not surprised though. I've known that there's been like some weird shit in academia and like going through college and like seeing it firsthand. I mean, you can definitely tell that the schools have a bias and that they try to, you know, force you into a certain way of thinking. But as far as like being in that world, like a professional in that world, I didn't know that there was so much pressure and just how much of an uphill battle it is.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, we should start writing our own scientific papers as non scientists and then have a bunch of names like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Stephen Hawkins, Einstein, and then just put, try to email them. No response at the end.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then they're like, oh, well, you know, legit.

[Sean Houlan]

Yep.

[Adam Thorne]

At least they were a part of it.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. Albert Einstein helped us Write this in 2025.

[Adam Thorne]

If it had the right leaning in a university, they would take it.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, you just got to pander to the right people for sure. All right, so let's get into AI and kind of the meat of what these guys are looking at, which I'm always so interested to hear because there's so much info out there. Everyone's using ChatGPT, Grok, you know, deep Seek, whatever it is. What's the llama, The Facebook one, is it. Have you used that?

[Sean Houlan]

Is anyone using that? I don't know.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't think so.

[Sean Houlan]

I get mad at my friends whenever I ask them a question and they're like, let me Google it. And then they just read the Google AI script thing. I'm like, come on, bro, that's not helpful.

[Adam Thorne]

No.

[Sean Houlan]

I mean most of the. Sometimes it is, but it's always like deep questions where I'm just like, come on, man, don't. Don't fucking.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I think that's why, that's why I think that the name Grok is better than Chat GPT because no one's ever going to say let's Chat GPT it. Yeah, Google it just rolls off the tongue pretty easy. And if that's where everyone goes to get a piece of information, which they have done for a long time, 15 years, maybe more, that's what it is. Right. But let's grock it is. You could get away with that. Yeah, it might be the way, I mean realistically that AI is where I go for most of the information I want, I want like Google just is a sponsorship, you know, tool now. In a way it's just like paid answers. It's not really the information, it's not what it used to be. It kind of sucks to like Google things.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. I find myself more and more increasingly going to the second page of Google, which like for years was like I never had to do. But now that nowadays it's like, yeah, half the first page is just sponsored bullshit that you don't even want even, especially if it's something to do with a product.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

Like if you're trying to find a product, maybe even not even trying to buy something, but just trying to look up information about something. It's like so much sponsored bullshit.

[Adam Thorne]

So much dude, so much.

[Sean Houlan]

It's not helpful.

[Adam Thorne]

No.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, it just clogs shit. But yeah, I think using AI as just a tool for things is, is good. But I feel like the big part.

[Adam Thorne]

Of Google is obviously they're always updating it, but the updates and there's, it's like search, you know, optimization that works better for them than for you. Whereas with the AI tools it doesn't seem to work like that. It works better for the user. And you know, these guys started off by saying like AI is achieving 50% success on hour long tasks. Right. It's doubling every four months. So it's like getting really fast at doing what we can do anyway and it's going to take over us real fast. Like that's a rapid growth in its ability to improve.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. I think in general, like when a lot of the early chat GBT stuff came out, like once it first hit the mainstream, people were using it. People kind of understood how it was going to work. Like everyone kind of knew, hey, this curve of how this gets better is exponential. Like it's not a linear thing, it's exponential. And then now years have gone by and it's like the level we're at is crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And you know, they talked about quantum computing.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And like how that could feed in now. They didn't seem too pumped on that happening. I guess. I don't. I don't know enough about it. Like, maybe there's limitations with the way that it thinks or. But I kind of think that they already made the point that quantum computer can make calculations that couldn't be done by a supercomputer today if it existed. The life of the universe.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. So if it can do it with some calculations, could it eventually not do it with all of them? And then what happens if you also throw in an AI model and enough power?

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, well, I think that the power part is important. They talked about that on the show of, like, scaling this stuff. You do kind of reach a cap, at least from a material economical standpoint. Like they were saying some of these specific chips that they need to build these data centers for AI models are in such high demand that they're just buying up all of the ones that get produced. So it's like there's a manufacturing cap on how big, fast and big you can build these things just because of the resources involved. But you still have governments like our own, or more so like private people like Google and Facebook and Microsoft and others. But in the case of China, you have the government spending hundreds of billions of dollars on this, just trying to get ahead in this race. And luckily, there is some sort of a cap to this. But I think, like, you can still, with current stuff, do a lot of damage.

[Adam Thorne]

What do you. What do you mean by cap?

[Sean Houlan]

Well, just like, you can only scale things so quickly because there is a, like.

[Adam Thorne]

So the cap you're talking about is speed.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. How fast?

[Adam Thorne]

We're not gonna run out?

[Sean Houlan]

No, we're not gonna run out. It's just how fast you can produce them. Like this companies can only produce so many chips over a certain amount of time. And then because of that, because of that limit, that hard limit, you can only build data centers and therefore AI matching that speed. But I mean, it's still enough.

[Adam Thorne]

They tried whipping their employees. Because I was watching the horse races the other day, and I'm like, they were getting those horses moving. If we need chips bad enough, could they, you know, maybe. All right, maybe that's too far. Tickle, little tickles.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Get it moving.

[Sean Houlan]

Chinese got it. I mean, their people are so dedicated.

[Dutch Vet]

Time is precious. And so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five Pets, you can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Sean Houlan]

Anyways, just a side point, when I walked into work this morning, my like 70 something year old boss, immediately, he was like, did you watch the Kentucky Derby last night? And I was like, why the fuck do you think I would watch the Kentucky Derby? Like, no, no. I was like, did you watch this? He was like, I watched some of it. I was like, why? Fucking why?

[Adam Thorne]

Because it's a, it's an old timey thingy thing.

[Sean Houlan]

Probably a hell of a thing to gamble on.

[Adam Thorne]

No doubt. I mean, the horse races can be fun.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, I'm sure it's cool to go to one, but ultimately I think your.

[Adam Thorne]

Boss was just trying to connect with you and next time, you know, be a bit nicer to him. Yeah, he pays your bills. He does be like, I missed it, but I would love to hear about it.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then go from there.

[Sean Houlan]

But then I'm stuck in like a 15 minute conversation that I don't really care about.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but if you quickly open the door to AI and how maybe they could whip the chip makers and how that relates to horse racing, you know, you get to steer the conversation in the direction that you like.

[Sean Houlan]

It's like me trying to barge my 911 conspiracies into literally any topic. It's like everyone's like, it's kind of a stretch. I don't know how that correlates, like.

[Adam Thorne]

We gotta stop inviting this guy places.

[Sean Houlan]

But yeah, honestly, like one of the things I was going to say is I think a lot of, at least the first half of the podcast was more so just about China in general, I think, like AI and stuff. But yeah, I mean, that is so scary. Some of the stuff they were talking about how they're fucking with us and how just how much farther advanced they are in this. I mean, the whole country is really doubling down on building these AI models and that's scary because they're a massive country with very dedicated group of hard working people that are very smart and have lots of money and we have like a couple companies working on it. But speaking of caps, the other thing they were talking about in the US at least is just the power, the amount of power that you need to build these data centers. I mean, it's like, I don't remember, a gigawatt I think is the metric. It's like a million homes. You can power a million homes with 1 gigawatt. And one of these data centers takes like at least one, if not a couple of gigawatts to run. And our electrical infrastructure in the U.S. there's only a couple places that you can still build these things and not like, you know, suck power from the nearby town and kill everybody, but we're running out of those spots. And so for the US we're that trouble of there being a slow cap to it or not cap, but like a limit to how quickly you can build these is a lot more tricky for us than in China. Yeah. I mean, other places.

[Adam Thorne]

Why do you think they're building so many coal plants over there? Like, they want to make energy as cheap as possible for that whole country and they don't care how they do it. Yeah, I mean, it's a smart move if you don't care about the environment and also want to bring up your economy real fast. Which to be fair, if you feel like America is your enemy, then what options do you have? I mean, you gotta beat the top dog. That's like way far ahead of you. You gotta do whatever you can do. And I'm just talking on the level of like, if you're just doing a power play. Right. This isn't about conscientiousness, like they're gonna do it. I mean, there was a report this year that the AI doubling global electricity demand by 2030. So I will need to do that. These day centers alone will double the electricity demand, like by 2030. You said, dude, that's not long.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. And like you.

[Adam Thorne]

That's tomorrow.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. You put that in the scale of like the US it's like, oh, are we just supposed to double our electrical infrastructure in five years? Like, how does that happen?

[Adam Thorne]

Dude, we're already maxed out almost.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like the power grid in Texas is like going down often. Yeah, it's. But you know, look, they. For a long time they were farting around about nuclear power. It's so scary and dangerous and you know, it's the end of the world fallout stuff. These plants are getting safer and safer. We're on like 4th gen plants now. We could build them all over the place. They're literally zero emissions.

[Sean Houlan]

Yep.

[Adam Thorne]

Tons of power now. Also, we're getting better at using the depleted.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. We've gotten a lot better at doing that because that was the big pushback from people too was like, oh well, there's still waste. You know, you have the excess stuff whenever you use all the energy out of it. But they found ways to do that.

[Adam Thorne]

Do you know what the excess stuff was? So for you, for your entire life, for all your energy needs, how much depleted uranium, because that's what will be left uranium turned into. And they don't just use uranium. Now we have thorium plants which are really good too and they're easier to deal with, but just from depleted uranium, the chunk that it makes for you, which is the equivalent in a sense to your carbon footprint, which in coal plants would be a billion tons of who knows, 100,000. A million. It would be a lot. How much depleted uranium do you think you use?

[Sean Houlan]

Is it like a golf ball size or something?

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, you lowballed it. Oh, is it can of coke?

[Sean Houlan]

Can of coke. That's still impressive. I was at first gonna say basketball, but I was like, that's a little.

[Adam Thorne]

That'S a lot can of coke per person.

[Sean Houlan]

I don't remember what the metric is.

[Adam Thorne]

But it upsets people that we have to like bury it underground or whatever. But it's like, hey, if we find.

[Sean Houlan]

So much better than all the alternatives.

[Adam Thorne]

We can dig know it's got to.

[Sean Houlan]

Be better even a lot of the other, we won't go there for, for, for right now. But a lot of the other renewable energy methods that they have, like wind and solar, solar is not as bad, but wind is not good. Like it's just not good. The amount of resources that you need to build those windmills and maintain them is like a joke to how much energy you're getting out of them. And a lot of those windmills and equipment that you use to do that are made from petroleum based things. So it's not great. But I completely agree. I think nuclear is a great solution and it's really lazy that we haven't done anything about it. I mean France is completely powered by nuclear energy. They figured it out. It's completely powered by nuclear energy and it's. Yeah, yeah, that would be the way to do it though.

[Adam Thorne]

But these AI centers are already, Google already is working on basically a small nuclear reactor that only runs its AI center and it's getting approval for it. So the more of those you build, I mean you can be running little towns off this stuff, which is fun.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, right. I mean we have submarines that have a small nuclear power plant in them and they run for decades.

[Adam Thorne]

That's a good point.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like how can make it work?

[Sean Houlan]

You can make it work as long as it is in the interest of the people who are controlling things. You know, like it was in the interest of the national security and safety of our country and the military's wishes to build nuclear power submarines. Like, if we just prioritized the welfare of people and building clean energy, like, we could make it work. We could make it work. It's lazy to think that we couldn't.

[Adam Thorne]

That is a good point. I did not think of that until you said it. But of course they're not that big. No, they're not like as big. They're actually fucking huge.

[Sean Houlan]

They are fucking huge.

[Adam Thorne]

But I mean, compared to.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You know what I mean? All right, so I just Google it. It can generate 30 to 40 megawatts. All right, let's see what it says. Final answer. Five thousand to seven and a half thousand homes continuously. For how long? Let's ask how many years?

[Sean Houlan]

For what? Is this the. The one in the sub.

[Adam Thorne]

One Nucleus sub? Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

So you get to have it in like a small town.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. The only reason, dude, 30 years. Yeah. The only reason you have to surface those things is because they run out of food. They can create their own oxygen down there. They just run out of food. You can recycle the water, obviously, but.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, there's the drones.

[Sean Houlan]

A big crew. Yeah. Dude, airdrop a drone, subs.

[Adam Thorne]

It can't be that long.

[Sean Houlan]

I'm sure they already have them. What they probably do isn't. Isn't the theory, like, whatever you think the military has the capabilities of, they're already two decades ahead of that. Like, what's public.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

Isn't that kind of the standard?

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, not what I think.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. I'm like, you go deep on the.

[Adam Thorne]

Time traveled super laser sex bots. Good luck. Like, but if you think. I think those UAP drones that a lot of us are seeing are probably something military. I don't know. I don't know why we would still be sending like regular jets into combat when we have those. I feel like those things could just kamikaze stuff instantly, right?

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, it's because we have cameras everywhere. Cameras in the battlefield and shit. Oh, they want to keep that up. They want to keep that secret.

[Adam Thorne]

All right.

[Sean Houlan]

Anyways, getting back to AI a little bit. One of the things that I have kind of known but didn't realize it was as big of a deal as it is is just the amount of social media that's controlled by chatbots. They talked about that in the podcast. It was something Like, I don't remember the metric exactly, but a lot of like politically commented things and posts and stuff. Because it's gotten to the point where it's so easy to create bots that look exactly like people. And you have countries who put tons of money into this and private people who want to just fuck things over. And so they just make thousands of these bots. And then people see content that they post and comments and things and they're like, oh, this is what people actually think. This is what people are arguing about. This is the general consensus of the United States. But it's just engineered by someone who wants you to think a certain way.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

It's crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, that was a big play that Elon had when he moved into Twitter and getting rid of these bots. And you know, there were people analyzing Twitter that were like, it might be as much as 70% of bots.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Which completely.

[Dutch Vet]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24,7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Adam Thorne]

Undervalues his company. Like, it destroys the value of it. If you're talking like user cost. And he didn't care. He was like, get rid of them. Find them and get rid of them. And then what was interesting about it and how, you know, this is valuable and it worked is that there was contact with other social media companies of like, how they identified it because it was important for a lot of them to get rid of this. Like, it was, in a sense, destroying social media, like user experience. And if you think about it makes sense, that's just pure propaganda.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, yeah. And people are so reliant on social media nowadays to get their information. Yeah. I mean, it's just massive brainwashing. And I mean, they've been doing tactics like this for forever through social media. I mean, we all know about the Russia stuff with our elections and things like that. And just in general, the election cycles just being manipulated by media companies to make people think certain ways and get people to fight over things and just. Yeah, I think in general, like what? Because I notice that whenever I go on social media, like a lot of stuff nowadays Posted is political, and I think some of it is my algorithm, but I see a lot of that stuff. And now that I know this, I'm, like, thinking about it, and I'm like, man, a lot of that has got to be fake. Like, I'm sure there are people with those opinions, but a lot of times it's just really loud people saying things, and then people are just like, oh, yeah, this is what people think. And so you're just pushing people to the extremes. You know, the extreme right people are arguing with the extreme left people, and then middle ground people are being like, oh, this is what everyone thinks. This is where we are right now. We're fucked.

[Adam Thorne]

Do you ever watch those, like, really compelling videos that are, like, quite well put together are clearly, like, extreme conspiracy thinking? And then there's like, four likes, no comments, almost no one's following their page at all. And I'm like, why have I never seen that? If this video is as truthful as they're saying, like, how is this, like, the first or somewhat first I've ever heard of it, and yet it just randomly shows up on your feed? And I'm like, why does Instagram think that I should even watch this now? Sure, I was probably looking at wacky stuff that was, like, similar to that, you know, at some point, but, you know, I kind of want. I would kind of want, like, a filter that's like, yeah, if the site is not well verified, don't show me it ever. I don't care. Unless they directly know one of my friends, you know, and it's like, maybe, you know, Jim. But even then, I don't need to see the feed. Just show that on the someone you could follow page. I'll decide there. But you do get those weird things that pop up. Yeah, dude. Some. Some video that popped up the other day was trying to persuade me that Theo Vaughn was a plant. Like, his family was wealthy and he's, like, connected, and that's how he got in the real world. And it was just always, like, just rich people plugging him into a position. I'm like, dude, what kind of conspiracy theory do you think Theo Vaughn is trying to.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. You've met him, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah. You know, I've met Theo a few times.

[Sean Houlan]

I feel like Theo is, like, the most genuine person you can meet.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, yeah, obviously the video didn't work with me. Yeah, Like, I'm the worst guy to show it to. And I'm just like, also, what do we have, like, the most genuine, real kind of, you Know, some, like, pretty much egoless individual that shows up on a podcast and is just, like, willing to cry with you, you know, and be as silly as fuck. And interview Donald Trump, by the way.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And talk about cocaine.

[Sean Houlan]

Talks about cocaine.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, my God. Legend. But. But yeah, it's. It's this kind of, like, bot system that's, like, popping up and really messing with the algorithms. And it does seem to be that these social media companies have been really struggling to figure it out. I mean, listen, look at Zuckerberg, right? He's, like, changed this whole style. It's like Zuckerberg 2.0. He's got the gold chain. I do jujitsu. I'm connected to ufc. I go on Rogan. Even though he. He's not impressing Rogan like Elon can. I mean, he's doing his best, but, you know, they're changing it up so that people think that they're cool. And I think where Elon is different is he came in, bought Twitter, found out where the bots were, didn't give a fuck about profit, wasn't apologizing to anyone, cleaned it up, and was able to kind of, like, throw out that narrative to other people, like, hey, this is happening. We can show you how to clean this up. This would be better for people.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. It's just. Did they do it? Did all the other sites besides Twitter do that? And I don't know. I mean, I think. Part of me thinks that these companies know that this is going on and allow it to happen to a certain level because there's some incentive for them somehow. And, I mean, in general, like, we've seen that, like, through the Twitter files and stuff, we've seen that the government is involved with controlling some of this stuff and pushing people politically using social media. And so I still think that they're doing it. I find it hard to believe that, you know, Google, who owns YouTube and Facebook and all these other. I don't think that they're trying to move things in a new direction.

[Adam Thorne]

No, I don't think they are. I mean, maybe Facebook has started to clean some stuff up. They've taken a step back. It's going to take a minute. But, you know when you said that you think there's some reason they lean into this. It's profit.

[Sean Houlan]

I'm sure it is profit. There's some way that they're engagement, it's.

[Adam Thorne]

Creating more engagement because people are revved up. And it's just this balance between we're making massive amounts of money. Do we really need to change it for a more like, how do you expect a company to be moral?

[Sean Houlan]

Like moral to any degree scale.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. One of the things that they said in the podcast that was extremely concerning to me was they were talking about how when they go to the government for advice, or not advice, but like approval on certain things that they're trying to do with AI, these private companies, if they say to the government that things are going to happen in a certain way and then they don't happen in a certain way, nothing really happens, there's no consequences for it. But the flip side is if they say, hey, this situation's going on, like, they talk to their shareholders and like, hey, the situation's going on. We don't think it'll be that bad. It's not probably going to drop that much. And then it drops. They can get sued for that. So they can get penalized for not making more money, but if they want to do any shady shit and use the government to do that and cover stuff up, there's no penalty at all. Yeah, that is completely backwards to how it should be.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It doesn't really incentivize them, right?

[Sean Houlan]

No, not at all. And yeah, I think there's just so many examples of that, like with social media in general, like you said, all these people care about is their bottom line and next quarter's profits and stuff like that. And for them to be like, hey, guys, maybe we should think about this a little bit and, you know, have a. Have a conversation about maybe not doing this or whatever, like pushing back against it, it's like, no, that's shut down immediately because people need to make money.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, the whole air race goes into that and that's where the concerns are. That's where the peril is.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

The idea that it's really all for profit and chat. GPT has shown us that because OpenAI was. It's. The name is Open. That's what Elon was like, I'll give you $100 million for this. And then Sam Altman was like, no, I like Ferraris, and turned it private. So it's not open, it's closed. It's very controlled.

[Sean Houlan]

And, you know, it's the opposite of open. AI. Yeah, I. Sam pisses me off because if you watch early on there was a. They brought him into court and they were asking him about money and they were like, do you have a stake in this? And he's like, no. It's like, do you have a salary? He's like, no, I don't do this for money, blah, blah, blah. And then recently, I think this was maybe a year ago or so, but he's like seen in some Koenigsegg, like a four million dollar car. It's like, come on, bro, like, talk about a fucking sellout. Like you even try, well, even try to cover it up.

[Adam Thorne]

Here's the thing.

[Sean Houlan]

A four million dollar car. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

But let's say he doesn't own it. And because he's who he is and he's in the circles he's in, someone just let him drive it down the street. But you know what that tells me he still likes that stuff.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. He's still motivated by it.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't, I don't shit on anyone for liking nice things. I get it. I don't want to drive that car down the street. I wouldn't, because that's like somebody handing me a Ming vase and being like, just hold that for a second.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, before I had a kid, I wouldn't even hold someone's baby. I'm like, that is too fragile and delicate and, you know, priceless. I'm not going to do it. And in that same way, I just don't desire those things. Right. And there's nothing special about the way I spend money, but it shows that he values that.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

So he values, you know, status supercars. Like it's, it's. That's kind of Andrew Tatey almost.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, exactly. And it's a complete departure from what he was personifying himself in that court interview.

[Adam Thorne]

That's right.

[Sean Houlan]

When he was saying like, oh, I'm not doing this for profit, I don't have a salary, blah, blah, blah.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, so you're saying he's a hypocrite?

[Sean Houlan]

Complete hypocrite. Complete hypocrite.

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[Adam Thorne]

All right, well, that's Sean Houlan right there online saying that about a guy that has a system that can definitely search him for the rest of his life.

[Sean Houlan]

That's all Right.

[Adam Thorne]

Also, I'm throwing my hat in and I agree. Got you back, dude.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. Hell yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

We're going down together. The robots are going to chase us down. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I trust him. You know, I. Elon definitely doesn't. And you know, I don't follow everything Elon says, but in this case, I don't think I like it. I love that Elon make rock. I've been trying them all out. I don't know if you mess with Deep Seek. The Chinese one, The cheap one.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. I've used it a couple times. It's. I mean, it's.

[Adam Thorne]

It works.

[Sean Houlan]

It works.

[Adam Thorne]

Looks good. Yeah, it's fine.

[Sean Houlan]

I'm deeply nervous every time I put information in there.

[Adam Thorne]

Private stuff. Yeah, dude. Yeah, I know.

[Sean Houlan]

That's like, you better go to the library computer. Don't use your own computer for that shit.

[Adam Thorne]

You, you like, buy a Lapta tablet just to burn it afterwards. You're like, oh, okay, did it. Yeah, dude. The peril is what concerns me. I mean, listen, ultimately it gets to the idea of the Terminator and Skynet.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And I don't know if. If like those things really converge, you know, in a sense, but they're already making like the robots that can like walk around with us do stuff, you know, Elon's doing it different things. How long before, like the police are robots? It's not impossible to believe they could exist one day. I think at this point we'd be naive to think that they couldn't.

[Sean Houlan]

Oh, yeah. No, I think it definitely could exist in our time and especially too like just the concept of superintelligence I think is definitely going to happen within, certainly within my lifetime. And I think it's going to happen a lot sooner than people think it's going to happen. And I'm deeply nervous that we're going to reach this point where these companies know that things are going to get out of control or not, like, past the point where they're like, oh, this has the potential to get out of control. To where they're like, things are starting to get out of control. And then they don't do anything about it or they keep it hush, hush, or they keep it private and they don't try and get outside help to fix things. And then things just, yeah, turn into something that is completely detrimental to all of us. But on the flip side, I also wonder, like, if things work out, is the goal just to autonomize every part of our lives and you Know, make everything, like, any, any job that you can have a robot do, replace them with a robot. Like, is that the motivation with making all this money and investing all of these things? Like, what's the end goal once you reach this level of intelligence, assuming you haven't destroyed yourself as well? Like, where are we going with this?

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I think, I think we can look at it in terms of, like, being super rich now or even in the past. Right. Being a king. In Egyptian times, they probably didn't even wipe their own ass. No, they probably had, like, the ass wiper guy. I don't know. I don't know what the hieroglyphic for that is, but they, you know, it's like, if you had enough money and enough power, you literally did none of the things that you didn't want to do.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, and other than trying to keep your power, which was the one task you probably had, keep yourself alive and keep all your power, because you try and give that to something else, they just take the power. Yeah, but you didn't do anything else. So weirdly, it might just be this pursuit towards that. It's like everybody wants to be a king or something. Right? Like, I look at it every time I look at my Roomba, I'm like, why, why do I not just vacuum up real quick? I mean, it takes some time, but it's not that much. And then I think, where does it end? Would I buy a little Roomba that was on the counter in the kitchen? That just cleans the kitchen.

[Sean Houlan]

They have them that'll cut your grass now, too.

[Adam Thorne]

They have robot mowers that will cut grass.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And they have something they're building that can fold laundry, maybe even do your laundry soon. I mean, where does it end? You know, it's like, does a shower turn into, like, a mini car wash? You just get in there and then all the bristles start moving around and rollers. Just do your hair.

[Sean Houlan]

Maybe it's gonna be like the. Do you ever watch Wallace and Gromit?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

Remember his morning routine where he just, like, pulls the thing and he addresses himself?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. What do they call those things?

[Sean Houlan]

I don't know.

[Adam Thorne]

They have a name. They have a name, dude.

[Sean Houlan]

That's what it's gonna be like, though. But, yeah, I, I, I wonder where. What's the goal here? You know? Is the goal for these companies and people running them to just acquire more power over people? I think partially.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, probably.

[Sean Houlan]

But right now, we're, we're, we're, we're early Enough that we are trying to build something. But I feel like a lot of the conversations of like, why? What is it for? Why are we trying to do this? Are pushed to the wayside, which is why I enjoyed these two people, because they asked a lot of those questions. They really brought up those hard topic questions.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I think what it is, is exactly what you're saying. It's almost like if you put it into a metaphor that everyone can understand. It's like that Wallace and Gromit device, which I'm still trying to get up is. Is like, where AI is going. That device made breakfast, put their clothes on. They had one in Back to the Future too.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Movie.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, I remember.

[Adam Thorne]

Same thing. Like, cracks the eggs.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And it just gets going and everyone loved it. Everyone's watching and we're like, this is the greatest thing. They have one in Goonies, Pee Wee's Adventure. You know, it was in a bunch of movies back then. And it's like, yeah, automating everything. I don't have to do it. And I'm so smart that I figured out how to make it happen. And it's the dream of what AI can be. And it's like kind of starting to happen.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Is it a problem now? Does it free us up to do a bunch of other stuff that might be nice, but I don't know, global economics still exists. You still got to pay your bills. Like, where's your value if a robot is doing everything for you?

[Sean Houlan]

Where's your purpose? Also, you know, if you don't have anything to do throughout the day and you're just free to do all of the things that you can do because you're not working, like, what are those things that you're actually doing? Is it just sitting around? Like, a lot of people are like, oh, you can go out and create things. And like, that's. That's awesome. But also, I know not everyone is great at creating shit. You know, like, some people just. That's not how their brain works. And so, yeah, once you replace all those jobs, like, what are people supposed to do with their time?

[Adam Thorne]

Be creative, maybe.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, like, maybe lean into jobs that they enjoy more. I mean, listen, you get the problem is you would think, oh, if somebody did, like, a lot of people say this kind of thing, somebody would just do all these other things for me. I could use my energy and time for, like, all this other stuff that I want to work on or be productive, but there are plenty of people that would just use that extra time and Completely blow it.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

They could waste a billion, billion years existing, like, for sure. So it's tricky. Like, you've still got to be a motivated person, a disciplined person in your own right and have some passion, which gives you direction that, you know, that takes time to build. And having robots doing everything. Also, the machines are called Rube Goldberg machines.

[Sean Houlan]

Okay, that's what I thought it was. That's what I thought it was.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, it was close. I was like Jeff Goldblum. It wasn't. I wasn't close enough. Yeah. I don't know, man. I mean, listen, eventually when I would buy like a housekeeper robot, one if it was solid enough, that could like answer the door, do basic shit, you know, just kind of like, you know, just work around the house. Like a person would work there. Like you. Of course you would get one, you.

[Sean Houlan]

Know, if you could afford it. Yeah. And it made sense for you.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it would make sense for anyone that could afford it.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. Well, it's the same reason why everyone bought washing machines and refrigerators and all the other fancy stuff that we take for granted now.

[Adam Thorne]

New appliance.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

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[Adam Thorne]

Now, would you buy a dude looking one or like a hot, sexy looking.

[Sean Houlan]

You think they're gonna look like humans?

[Adam Thorne]

Of course. Probably a humanoid. They don't have like skin yet. But if they look like a hot lady or like some old English butler and you have the choice, which one are you getting?

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. I don't know, man. British accent. No, I would get the lady.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, so how would you design.

[Sean Houlan]

A. I don't know.

[Adam Thorne]

Don't be shy.

[Sean Houlan]

I was playing Fallout 4 and the ones that they have in there, it's like set in the future and it's just some robot that floats around. It's like a dome. Dome shape. Yeah, it's got like a bunch of arms and stuff and it's interesting, but I think it would be something like that. I don't think they would. I don't know, maybe they make them like humans.

[Adam Thorne]

What? They already have their Optimus by Tesla. It looks like a person.

[Sean Houlan]

It looks like a person.

[Adam Thorne]

You think it's going to be a floating trash can with multiple arms?

[Sean Houlan]

Maybe like the poor ones, you got to like, it's like a tier system you get. You have to pay more if you want them to look better.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. It's just for like the poor perverts, you just get like a kind of ugly woman.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then the richer you are, the hotter they become.

[Sean Houlan]

You miss a payment and suddenly she's just like super ugly all of a sudden. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And it's like, sorry. All the hair falls out and like one of our eyes close a little bit and just like. Sorry. Yep. I don't know the. I don't know where all this is going, but I don't think it's bad. You know, people worry about it so much. It's just like, I think in 100 years they're going to be like, were they this worried about dishwashers or washing machines? No, we weren't. It was great.

[Sean Houlan]

I will push back on that a little bit. The thing that I'm worried about is just like, we know that governments are crazy hungry and for control over things. And if you look at like, I'll give you an example. So in my roommate, My roommate went to Japan and he was telling me that in Japan they have appliances that wash your clothes. And it's two in one machine. So in one machine it washes them and dries them. In one machine. You don't have to buy a separate washer and dryer. And I was thinking about that and I was like, that's how they work in England. That's a great idea. Why don't we have that in the U.S. the reason we don't have that in the U.S. is because you make more money when you sell someone a separate washer and a separate dryer. And so I think, like, especially in the U.S. like, we're so focused on scraping every dollar from people, just working class people, that I think that it gets in the way of making things more economical or more convenient for people. And we just prioritize profits and control over things. And so I think that if you look at the way that like the companies that are working on this, you have like Google, Microsoft, like, these are not morally justified companies. Like the things that they've been doing recently and their track record and all that stuff doesn't point to good directions.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Sean Houlan]

So I think it's a little bit naive to be like, oh, these companies are going to figure it out and then they're going to turn good all of a sudden, you know, like, I don't. I try to keep an optimistic perspective on this stuff, but just looking at the way that the world is moving towards, especially in the us it doesn't look good for us.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Sean Houlan]

And I think that, yeah, I just think that AI, especially nowadays in recent times, is just going to be used for control. I mean, they're already doing that. A lot of the stuff we've talked about on the show is just examples of how they're already using it for control and manipulation and international conflict and things like this. It seems hard for me to imagine it just all working out beautifully without some sort of massive intervention and pumping the brakes really hard on this and having a cohesive conversation about, like, hey, what are we trying to do here? Where is this going? Like, how can we iron out some of the bad things that do this? How can we make this the best case scenario for us to work together with AI?

[Adam Thorne]

Do you think these guys are going to be able to make any real headway? I mean, they're obviously picking up, you know, momentum. They come on Rogan, people like listening to them. But I mean, are they going to realistically, like, they want to put together some sort of, like, I don't know if it's government, they want to put together something that it's like, right, we need to have like real legislation around this or some kind of like ethical control or does it just continue the dialogue?

[Sean Houlan]

I hope it moves in a good direction. But as a just an everyday person, it's hard to like, I learned all this information and I'm like, that's cool, that's not going in a good direction. But like, what am I supposed to do about this? I mean, these companies are massive organizations that are purely motivated by profit and control and as just an everyday citizen, I mean, yeah, ideally you would need some sort of government intervention and people to go on board collectively and say, hey guys, what are we doing here? Let's seriously consider this. But it's hard. These guys are great and I love their perspective, but there have been a lot of people that have talked about the dangers of AI for years now. And again, these conversations are great and eye opening and interesting to talk about and really important and valuable. But if we're only going to be talking about them, that can only do so much. So I hope that they continue to do what they're doing and push the people who are actually in control to realize that were maybe not moving in the best direction and need to reassess the way that we're doing things.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I'm with you. That whole time I was like also looking up the washer dryer situation.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

But it's a space issue.

[Sean Houlan]

Is it?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, you gotta have space. Other things don't have as much space.

[Sean Houlan]

Oh, is it? Oh, okay.

[Adam Thorne]

The U.S. ones have larger capacities. When you have larger capacities, it's better to be specific for that type of either washing or drying.

[Sean Houlan]

Well, Americans clothes are bigger. You have to fit those XXL shirts.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but hold on, hold on. The question you bring up is an important one. There's an extra step for us here. And if we're talking about automation, why don't they have it where it like spits the clothes into the other machine? Yeah, that seems like a thing that could happen.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, well, it's the same thing, like.

[Adam Thorne]

Especially when they stack them on top of each other.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. Why can't you have a fucking door that just opens and drops it into the dryer, falls in there. Why can't you do that?

[Adam Thorne]

Dude, did we just invent a new thing?

[Sean Houlan]

They probably patented it and then didn't do anything with the patent. They're just like, we don't want people, we don't want people doing this. Can't have anyone undercut us. But it's the same. Like to use another example, Internet in the United States is slower, like WI fi speeds. If you get WI fi, even the best WI fi you can, like direct fiber optic cable or whatever. Internet companies in the US have collectively agreed not to raise speeds because you make more money just slowly raising the speeds rather than giving everyone all at once. If you go over to Asia or some places in the west or in Europe, rather, their Internet speeds blow us out of the water. And it's because the companies can actually compete with each other. And just the same way that you would buy any product, one company makes something better, the next company's like, oh, we got to one up this. And so they're actually able to compete with each other. The US companies are not able to compete with each other. Or they've agreed not to compete with each other purely because of profits, purely because they know that they can make more money if they don't raise the speeds because you hit a max as far as what the current technology can allow you to do. But if you just slowly raise things, you can just charge people more for faster speeds. We raised the speed 10% meanwhile, overseas, it's like three times the speed.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, well, this is new to me.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

What you're saying is true. I. For the sake of this conversation, I'll say that's. But also, in Bozeman, you can only get fucking Spectrum, I think.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

So literally there's no competition. How is there not another Internet provider here? Do you have to have your own cable lines? Is that how that works? So they're the only ones that can get it?

[Sean Houlan]

I guess so. Well, that's the thing, is they have control over the market. Like, if you want to have WI fi, there are only certain companies that can do it. And like. Yeah, exactly. And in our area, you're down to one provider. And they'll say shit like, oh, it's the. It's the geographic location. You guys are in a valley, there's mountains everywhere. Like, that's probably true. But also, why are there not multiple options? You know, why is there only one fucking option? Like, there's a lot of towns in.

[Adam Thorne]

The United States only had one restaurant to go to.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And they were like, it's the only thing.

[Sean Houlan]

We can only get it here.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Biscuits and gravy or nothing. And we're like, I want a salad. Like, that's not. That doesn't sound very American. I don't know how they've worked their way in, but telecommunications, like AT&T for a long time was up to a bunch of shady stuff. They were like Pacific Bell or something was like the overarching company. And it was a lot of kind of strategic monopolizing and government pressures and all the right moves and. Yeah, sneaky, sneaky stuff.

[Sean Houlan]

Yep. And there's planned obsolescence. You know, like, you go to buy light bulbs and it's like, oh, this one has a 10, 10 year, 10 year lifespan. You're like, why? Oh, that's how they designed it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Didn't they early on make.

[Sean Houlan]

They knew exactly how to make light bulbs that last forever, but you make more money if they go out after 10 years, you have to buy more light bulbs.

[Adam Thorne]

It's so gross.

[Sean Houlan]

There's so many things that are like that. And that's not an exclusive thing to the United States. A lot of businesses do that. But it's the same mindset of, like, we could make things better, but we make more money if they suck.

[Adam Thorne]

And I love that. Probably those same companies are the ones that are like, hey, recycle your cans.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Think about the dolphins and the polar bears and you're like, what? Wait, so I got to now rifle through my trash because you made all of my trash.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

God bless.

[Sean Houlan]

It's like Starbucks. Starbucks with their plastic straws. You know what they did? They, their straws used to be plastic covered in paper, and now they're paper straws covered in plastic. It's the same amount of paper and plastic.

[Adam Thorne]

They just reversed it for the environment though. Yeah, it's better for the turtles.

[Sean Houlan]

Yeah. It's the exact same.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I support it. Well done. And on that note. Yeah, AI guys, I don't know what to think. Good, bad. I'm optimistic it could go any direction. Final thoughts?

[Sean Houlan]

I would just say if you're curious about some of the stuff that they're working on and you want to get more involved, check out their website. They have a lot of resources. You can learn more about this stuff with more solid evidence than the two of us have provided. And yeah, love it.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, thanks.

[Sean Houlan]

Thanks everyone.

[Adam Thorne]

Later.

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