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448 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Oz Pearlman
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- [00:01]
Adam Thorne
You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.
- [00:22]
Nick
What a bizarre thing we've created now with your hosts as well, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast.
- [00:28]
Adam Thorne
Or the best one. One go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the JRE Review. This week I'm joined by Nick. Nick is back from lesser known operators. What's up, Nick?
- [00:46]
Nick
Just hanging out in the basement, man. Ready to give some pearls of wisdom here.
- [00:50]
Adam Thorne
There we go. Yeah. The Oz Perlmans of wisdom.
- [00:54]
Nick
That's right.
- [00:55]
Adam Thorne
This week we are talking about Oz Perman. Oz is a mentalist and entertainer, an endurance runner. Just a bit of a kind of all round extreme individual, I would say. And to even just say he's an endurance runner, when you can win four marathons in a row, that's something else right there. I mean, it's one thing to run a marathon, but to win them. What is even going on there? I mean, it's not like he's 20.
- [01:30]
Nick
He got into it in right in the beginning and that kind of was a theme for everything that he does. He has the ability to control his thoughts and how he, his mind is. Now, some of that comes with failure. Like the first time he did that endurance race, he quit, you know.
- [01:49]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [01:50]
Nick
But the one he raised, setback. You need that setback in your mental game to drive you forward. And so he just started refining it and yeah, running a marathon's hard. Walking a marathon's hard.
- [02:03]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [02:03]
Nick
You know, it's just a long time of focus because everything starts to hurt after a while. But if you can overcome that in your mind or you can train yourself to where your mind just gives up because your body is way stronger than your mind. Your mind will always quit unless you are hurt, actually injured hurt. Your mind is, is what's going to hold you back, not your body. You are way stronger than you think you are.
- [02:30]
Adam Thorne
You know, this is interesting that you say this because this is why whenever I think of like Special Forces training. Right. The Hell week thing that, you know, I've only ever watched shows about, and it's like this extreme endurance stuff where they keep you awake. You just got to keep pushing and pushing. It's like I've done physical things that I felt are hard. Right. But it's relative to me, whether it was like some sports that I was doing, maybe some jiu jitsu lessons that, you know, classes that were just hammering me. And honestly, mate, there's a breaking point for me real quick. But what's interesting about it is it just gets to a point where I really think that I'm injured. Like, I can't tell myself to, like, I'm just like, well, I'm not gonna actually injure myself now. There probably is no injury there. I'm just being a bitch and I'm pussing out and I can't continue because it's painful. But I just honestly cannot even fathom the mindset of people that are like, like when he did 150 miles, it must feel like your feet and legs are broken, that you've blown your kneecaps out and yet you just keep going. Like, do they actually not care about being injured or do they tell themselves that it's really not happening and just keep going? I just don't even get the mindset.
- [03:58]
Nick
In some of the things I've done. And I'm not speaking for my colleagues or anything like that. But you get to a point in your mind where it's. And it sounds cheesy like to say this, right? People will say failure is not an option. Well, it's not even a thing. It's just, I'm going to complete the task. That's the only way forward and. Or I'm gonna die. I don't care how much it hurts. I don't care what I have to do. I'm going to get there. And perfect example, when we go to a selection, your feet get destroyed the most, you start getting a blister and it's, it's not going to get any better. So you're running thread through these blisters and you're in constant pain. So what are you gonna do? You just have to deal with it. You have to say, I do not give a. Like, this pain is not a joint. It's not a major. It's. It's not cutting off circulation to my brain or anything. Like, it's just pain. That's all it is. You know, like I said, the difference between hurt and injured and. But, but. Right. You have to put yourself in that situation in the past to recognize I'm fine.
- [05:21]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [05:23]
Nick
And if you don't consistently. Yeah, it's not even consistently because some of the stuff I've done in the past, like It's a long time ago, but. But when a situation comes up where I go, ah, stop being a little. You used to do this. Ah, I can do it again. There's some discipline involved in there, right? Fall off with their training. But it's. You have to be in control of your emotions.
- [05:48]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. No, I believe that it's because that's what I don't feel that I have. When something physical that I'm doing is too hard, I immediately am psyching myself out. I'm telling myself, I don't need to push this hard. I'm not doing this for any reason. So. So just like you said, you put the task ahead of yourself. The task is the finish. Yourself is second. I'm not doing that. In my mind, the task is just a thing I was doing. So already I'm quitting potentially as soon as it gets hard. And then that difference between pain and injury, like, that surely must be just experience and like you said, not even consistent, but just, you've done it before. It hurt like this before and ultimately you were fine. See, I won't know the difference. I'll be like, ow, my knee really hurts. I think this is bad. I'm going to stop. And then my knee is fine.
- [06:46]
Nick
Yeah. Every time I tweak something in the gym, I find that if I just ignore it, it probably just goes away. But if I think about it somehow, it hurts worse.
- [06:57]
Adam Thorne
Really?
- [06:59]
Nick
I'm like, I heard somebody say that once and I went, that's pretty true. What if I just. Because I know you, you know, if you hurt yourself, you really do, whether you want to admit it or not, you know, if you hurt yourself because you. It just feels different. You're like, oof, something's wrong. But if. If you're just honest and you think about, is this pain worth it? Well, you know, probably, because then I'm done and I'm done and I. It's. It's cheesy. Right? But quitting is the only pain that lasts forever.
- [07:39]
Adam Thorne
Right? And I. And I think that's the difference. And. And what makes someone like Oz or Goggins or any of these, like, extreme achievers is, yeah, they probably are at times actually really hurting themselves. I mean, they already say Goggins knees are, like, completely destroyed. His feet are always broken, and. But his mind never is. So think of all the other things that he's been able to achieve because of it. Oz has. I mean, he ran a marathon before he came in and talked to Rogan. Like, that is crazy.
- [08:13]
Nick
Discipline to get his phone calls done in the morning.
- [08:16]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. That was wild. Super productive getting all this stuff done. He has five kids as well. Five kids. He sent like immediately. You're very interesting person if you're doing that. I don't even need to know anything else. Then he starts to get into all this mentalism stuff. So what was he. He was on a cruise ship getting inspired by this magician. Followed him around and then that was it. After that, just practicing magic. Practicing mentalism.
- [08:50]
Nick
He. From listening to him. He is structured. The way he talks, the way he interacts with people. And even with Joe, because Joe is like leaning forward listening to him.
- [09:05]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [09:06]
Nick
And it's his cadence and the way he's putting out information. It almost hypes you up. Like you want to be. What's. What's this guy gonna say next? Oh, he's saying, this is so interesting. But it's just the cadence of how he's talking. Sure.
- [09:20]
Adam Thorne
He's just.
- [09:21]
Nick
He's got it all. All the information. So I feel like comparison. I think I was messaging you about this a couple weeks ago. Comparison. Everybody says this comparison is the thief of joy. That's not true. You. You being envious of other people is the thief of joy.
- [09:42]
Adam Thorne
Yep.
- [09:42]
Nick
If I didn't see other Green Berets, I would have never become one. I would have never aspired to do that. By comparing I want to be like them. And he saw that with somebody else, I was like, I like what this guy's doing. I think that would make me happy. I'm going to go all in on that. And then you become obsessed. And then it's a benefit positive.
- [10:02]
Brad
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- [10:17]
Nick
Let's go.
- [10:18]
Brad
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- [10:23]
Nick
The numbers look good.
- [10:24]
Adam Thorne
Brad, you're on mute.
- [10:26]
Brad
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- [10:31]
Nick
Fiverr.Com I think if he wasn't pouring all of his energy into doing the things he's doing, he would be depressed. Like if he wasn't running 25 miles a day and if he wasn't getting all of these things done and have five Kids, like five kids, is stressful. You need to bring that stress into your life and be super productive. So I think that he has to be at this way, and he has to. He found something that he really likes, and he's tailored his entire life around being exactly who he wants to be.
- [11:06]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely what I was picking up on as well. And just like you said, I mean, Joe was. Joe was just how he is. He was skeptical. He kind of didn't like some things. When he guessed his pin number, he was like, I don't care for this. Like, he was getting almost slightly annoyed, but over time, just kind of won over with each of these little pieces. And Joe was so engaged and kind of blown away. This is honestly one of the most enjoyable Rogan's I've gone through in. In a while. I really liked the conversation.
- [11:42]
Nick
He was telling a story, and he said it several times through there. Yo, you don't give your. You don't do your best stuff up front. Yeah, yeah. Save the best flash. And he had that right at the end. Right. He was given. It wasn't. You know, they were telling a story for the audience, but he was working Joe the whole episode, just giving him little breadcrumbs.
- [12:01]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [12:02]
Nick
Leading him on and leading him on, and it was just this. This up. It was an upward trend, but it was ups and downs on an upward trend. Right. And he just had him hooked the whole time. And by the time he got to the heads or tails and then opening the envelopes, he had him hooked like a sinker because he couldn't explain the first thing he did.
- [12:20]
Adam Thorne
Exactly.
- [12:21]
Nick
How the. Is he gonna explain the things at the end? Well, you know, you got. And he. That's why he said, I go on these serious news programs and things like this, and. And he's just a master at his craft, at reading people. But I think there's a cynical side to that, because he sees stuff at such a level that he's cynical of other people that maybe are having real experiences. And he goes, I can explain that.
- [12:52]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [12:52]
Nick
I can explain that. So there's kind of this loss of whimsy in your everyday life as well when you become that good.
- [12:59]
Adam Thorne
Mm. Do you think he. He's probably really good at spotting, like, bullshitters? Because I bet there's. I bet there's so many little micro communications with somebody that's, like, making up stories or has some sort of agenda to kind of, like, manipulate you. And he would. He would be able to see that right away that probably be a good skill to have, but they would almost be sad because you'd notice it in, like, tons of people. You'd be like, ah, what are you doing, dude?
- [13:32]
Nick
Perfect example. Joe's job is to talk, right?
- [13:37]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [13:38]
Nick
All he does on a show is talk. All he does in the UFC is talk. He doesn't stand up, which is the ultimate talk in front of people. Telling jokes that you've made up out of your head, or situational awareness or things like this. Right. Observational humor. This guy has so many conversations with people, and then if you just shift your thinking a little bit and you're looking out for these things, then you're going to start noticing them. And then, oh, there's more behind the curtain. Well, why are they, you know, why they look this way, why they do this? And then you're analyzing everything eventually. And there's only so many things a person can do. Look down, look up, kind of tilt their head to the side. It's like that sign stealing documentary for Michigan State or Michigan. There's only so many hand movements you can do on the sidelines. And if you memorize all of them and then start figuring out what they all do, it's a, it's. It's not an infinite list of actions people can take. Right. So this guy's so dedicated to getting them all in this spreadsheet in his head, and that every interaction he has with people, he writes down. So he's just reinforcing his memory. So he's appearing superhuman when he's just dedicated to what he's doing.
- [14:57]
Adam Thorne
Right. And I think it's because it's such an unusual pursuit, so few people do it, that it really stands out as magic. But, like, if no one had ever played the game of soccer, right? And they were just, for whatever reason, no balls that existed in the world. We had other sports, other things, and then all of a sudden someone comes along and they can like bounce the ball up and down on their foot and do a few tricks. It would look like magic because we just never see it. It wouldn't have existed. And it's probably something similar to that. Like, for example, if a lot of people were mentalists, if this was like a huge profession, all of this shit would be way less impressive because it'd be like, oh, my uncle can do that. It's not even. It's not even that clever.
- [15:47]
Nick
I think a lot of people are. If you're really successful in your craft business or, well, name the business, but anything to deal with people and working deals and things like that. I think a lot of people are. They just don't know it. Like, some people can just talk to people and get them to tell them whatever they want.
- [16:11]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [16:11]
Nick
I. I had it. I started in construction when I was a teenager. And that's where you, like, construction workers are talking all the time. And so you. You grow up in that. And it's all these different ways of conversing. Well, then I got into bartending when I got old enough. And then you learn how to turn it into conversing with customers to try and pull money out of them.
- [16:34]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [16:35]
Nick
And then I got the military, and then I learned to turn that into some leadership traits. So all of these things, all these people. I think all of this is in people. It's just they don't. Don't believe in themselves. Like, everybody can run a marathon. They can. Everybody can do it. But you get to the point you don't believe in yourself or you don't want to do it, and then you start putting yourself down and you're like, nah, that's. That's not me. Now, don't get me wrong. You cannot do everything. Like, you can't be good at everything. You could try, but you're not going to get there. If. If you dedicate your life to a few things, you can get really, really good to where it seems like magic. But I think the skills that he's displaying are in everybody. But you have to get to such a level of commitment that it seems wizardy, wizardry to normal people.
- [17:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. And I think that was a lot of his point with mentalism is it takes so long to even get any decent results, and there's a lot of failure. Like, it did sound a lot to me, like, stand up. And there's a reason that a lot of people don't stick with stand up. I mean, when I started out in 2016, there were a bunch of open micas that were just brand new as well. And we start to get to know each other. You kind of stick with, like, wherever your level is, because you're often performing with the same people kind of on your level. Right. Brand new is like a crapshoot. There are some people that are very dedicated, but they are just garbage for ages. But they're always there, they're always consistent. Then you get people that are naturally really quite funny. Like, they just kind of have like, the it thing, but they don't stick at it. They can't even get close to sticking at it. They can't Be consistent. Their life's all over the place and then they just drop off like you could. You almost can never guess who is going to make it to the next stage. After a while, once people start to get paid to be on shows, you've got a bit of a feeling like who's going to stick at it and be good. But you know, you've just got to fail so many times and it's so painful. There are. There are just plenty of people that are not designed for that. And I think mentalism is. Is that way. Like, imagine how many times he's not guessed the pin correctly and look like a fool. Probably a ton. But keep practicing.
- [19:06]
Nick
Even said that he. He would do that and the crowd would still love him. So he's failed so many times that he knows how to recover from failing.
- [19:16]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Or hide it.
- [19:19]
Nick
Yeah, yeah, that's true skill right there. When you can fail at what you're really good at and then still sell it as a success.
- [19:27]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, well, you know, Joe said about comedy, they. You get like the first minute, not even you get the first joke, especially when you're new. And if that bombs, you've got to be up there maybe for five more minutes. You don't get to walk off. So good luck and do your best. And to get anything after that is some of the greatest learning potential you can have for that profession. Be like, the recovery is you're in a hole, dude. You're in a hole at that point.
- [20:02]
Nick
Just now with successful at any level. And I'll go back to like the military and the qualification course. Right. I was talking to a buddy of mine who is a cadre at the schoolhouse, and he goes, man, you know, we're talking about attitude going through the course. And, you know, everybody had a different reason or way they succeeded. But we were talking about students. And he goes, man, if these students would come up to me and ask me a question about like a. Like they needed to go to somebody's wedding or something like that, it was right there. 50 chance that they were gonna not make it through the course. And then sure enough, a few weeks later, they'd see these people drop off because they're not dedicated fully to graduating. And not every time, but just. He would. It was. The more students would have problems or even ask for stuff, the more they would drop off. And. Right. He's. Oz is at the top of his craft. Who. Who else do you know that is at the top of that game? You mean you've ever even heard of.
- [21:15]
Adam Thorne
Of mentalism yeah, there was a. Well, I think that potentially. What's his name? Blaine. Dave, is it?
- [21:26]
Nick
David Blaine?
- [21:27]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, I think maybe him. There's a guy called Darren Brown, British guy. He does like a lot of psychology mind stuff that's like really impressive. But yeah, very few, very few people.
- [21:43]
Nick
You know, and maybe they call themselves fortune tellers or mediums because they're preying on people to. For profit and things like that.
- [21:55]
Adam Thorne
No doubt. Potentially.
- [21:57]
Nick
There's been snake oil salesmen as far back as you can remember.
- [22:02]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, there's a lot of them on Instagram these days too. Buy my protein, says the liver King. Like, all right, that guy. You know, one thing in this too, that kind of. I don't know, it kind of changed my mind and it's a bit of a bummer because. Do you remember the telepathy tapes? Had that lady on Rogan did. And the telepathy tapes are like a series of podcasts about autistic kids that have shown that they almost have like mind reading skills. Right. Though there's a lot of skepticism around it because of the way it could be done and who the person is that they're interacting with and blah, blah, blah. And when he said, look, I loved it. It was super interesting, you know, I wanted to believe in it. It's very cool. But when I saw a lot of what, how they were doing it, he was like, oh, this is like similar stuff to what I do. Like there is some sort of communication that is going back and forth. He's not entirely sure what it is, but he's. And he's. And he's not saying that it. Maybe it is still some kind of telepathy, but he, he would be able to tell if he was there, he thinks. And, and it kind of, it kind of ruined it for me. Now I'm like, ah, maybe it is not real.
- [23:26]
Nick
Now that's just one person who is seeing things at a level you'll never get to. To where he sees so much. If you're in the trades, right? And you're a good carpenter, like really good, and you walk into a house and you just immediately see all the things that are wrong with it. That's how you're going to look at. Because this guy's curious, right? He's curious about how are they doing that. To try and make himself better at his craft, right. And when he sees something like that, he's not looking at as whether it's entertainment or scientific value. He's coming at the lens of, I have all this experience in this area. And that's what's pushing my opinion forward. How can I do that? Or how can I learn something from that where a normal person is not. They're, oh, wow, that's really cool. So is that good? Is that bad? I don't. I don't know. Maybe it takes the. Some of the fun out of life and discovering new things because you just can't shut your mind off. I don't know.
- [24:37]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's like when you're watching magic, you don't want that one guy in the audience that can like, debunk every trick because it ruins it for everyone. But if you're trying to run a scientific process to say, is someone telepathic or are they getting this information another way? That's, I think, when it's useful. Right. The same as the carpenter. It's like, if I buy a house, I might look at it and be like, this house looks great, but I'm still going to bring an inspector in because before I plunk down a mortgage of $500,000 or whatever the heck the house is worth, I need to know if it's actually built properly or not. I just won't have the skills to, like, figure it out. Does that make sense?
- [25:28]
Nick
Outsourcing?
- [25:29]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, exactly. We're outsourcing him to figure out if telepathy is real. I mean, Rogan said he might need to set this up. I think it would be great if they could get him in there and, you know, work with some of these kids and just find out it doesn't mean that they're not exceptional. They're still able to do, like a really unusual thing.
- [25:53]
Nick
There's going to be no, no benefit in his life for that. Like, half of the Internet is going to hate you so hard for picking on these kids.
- [26:02]
Adam Thorne
That might be true. Yeah, that might be.
- [26:04]
Nick
So there's. If he really thinks about it, there's gonna be no benefit in that for him. It's. It's only going to be hate. You know, the Internet, the comment section as well as I do, and the hate mail.
- [26:14]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [26:14]
Nick
And people will come after you if you attack a less abled portion of the population or a perceived less able portion of the population.
- [26:27]
Adam Thorne
True, but I don't even know if the autistic kids themselves are claiming that they are telepathic. It's the people that are watching them do this thing. You know, I'd almost be curious, you know, if people have really asked them what they think is Happening. You know, a lot of it is they're saying they see it in their mind. Right. That's what the telepathy tapes would say. So I don't think it takes anything away from them, potentially even in a negative light just to say, hey, these kids have an amazing set of sensory capabilities. They're able to pick up on the slightest changes and then they can turn that into accurate information. I mean, that's almost cooler than telepathy. So maybe there's a spin on this.
- [27:16]
Nick
You are coming at that point from a reasonable and objective point of view.
- [27:21]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, the Internet's never going to do that.
- [27:23]
Nick
I'm damn sure that that's not going to be the case on the Internet.
- [27:27]
Adam Thorne
You're probably right. You're probably right. But I don't know. It was still interesting to me and it's. And it's made me a little skeptical. So now I want some answers. But saying that. What do you think about the fighter prediction bit? So we guessed the pin. He did the fighter prediction. He had Rogan just go through his Rolodex of fighters. Rogan came up with 14 picked and this is silver to win. And then they, he just kind of left it at that. The whole show just went on. And you were like, okay, what was the point of that.
- [28:04]
Nick
Breadcrumbs again? Right now to get to that information, he has to set up the. So the, the, the whole bit or episode was a setup to opening those episodes or those envelopes, right?
- [28:19]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [28:19]
Nick
So he already had a pre established. Unless it is actual magic.
- [28:24]
Adam Thorne
No, he says it's not. He says he's not.
- [28:26]
Nick
He says maybe he's lying. Maybe he is telepathic and he's just passing it off as like I'm just a normal dude that just studied really hard. Maybe he does have actual magic. Who knows? I don't know. I don't care. But I think he set all that up and led Joe to what he had in the envelope.
- [28:49]
Adam Thorne
Of course, somehow it had to be that. Right?
- [28:52]
Nick
Or he spent years studying the amount the fighters the, the number of times he said individual fighters names, who popped up the most. And then he took that information and goes, okay, here is the fighter that I think or is at the top of the list over the last three years that he said. And then he influenced Joe into saying that.
- [29:17]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [29:18]
Nick
Somehow subtly that we didn't even pick up on because I went. I didn't even hear anything of him leading him in that way. So nothing surprises me when people do crazy stuff. I'm like that's cool. But nothing surprises me because if you're. Have you ever seen somebody deal a royal flush wearing a blindfold? Like just cutting the cards and then they'll deal the royal flush with a blindfold on?
- [29:45]
Adam Thorne
No.
- [29:46]
Nick
They can, they've perceive the weight of the card based on the amount of ink on it.
- [29:54]
Adam Thorne
What?
- [29:55]
Nick
Because they've gotten so good at feeling the different weights of the cards that they can put them out there. So this guy is doing things that nobody's gonna see because he's worked at such a high level and he does his research. I everything he said, he's just so dedicated to these little things. He talked about the Joe Burrow setup. Right. It's like he worked on that for two years, right. That's a long time for a two minute bit. So I think this dude's just that crazy.
- [30:29]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, I think so.
- [30:31]
Nick
He worked to set Joe up for years on this bit and he, when he got the chance, he killed it.
- [30:38]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. I mean, look, it's reasonable to assume that picking that fighter was going to be Anderson Silva. We all know Joe loves him. You know, he's done some wild things. He's done things that no one ever did in the octagon, you know, it's gonna be hard to ever do that again, you know, and, but then, but then he was like, all right, how many would you say? And he's like a dozen, maybe two dozen. And then he was like, okay, we'll be more specific. Get to an actual number. And I wonder if by like even just pointing his finger like this or like raising it up. He's like, okay, half that number, two dozen. And then add to. You know what I mean? It's like it could be just like if, if he can pull names out of people, surely he can put ideas in there. You would imagine. Yeah, I mean imagine how lame the envelope would have been if he got any of those things wrong.
- [31:41]
Nick
But that's not the bit like he knew the outcome already. So, you know, that is lame. Right? And we go back to failure. This dude's failed so many times that he all of the training because Joe's the biggest show in the world. Like how many people are more famous than Joe Rogan? Lionel Messi, Ronaldo. Yeah, Donald Trump maybe. Maybe not even Donald Trump at this point. So you. He better have his together that he was going to get the result that he wanted going on to that show. Because it's not like being on Rogan is the end all be all of your life. But that is the place to have the result.
- [32:27]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [32:28]
Nick
And he, he knew exactly what he was doing going into there and now for I don't even understand. I. I kind of know like the dedication and the mental aspect of these things. To be so good at something to just dedicate all of your free time while you're awake and while you're asleep to this thing. You can't conceive that you have to be so obsessed that you're willing to. And we go back to the pain. You have to be that this is the only thing. Hitting that punchline of that bit on Rogan was a Super bowl moment for this guy because the show went out to millions and millions of people all over the world.
- [33:11]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. And he nailed it, dude. Like I said, it wasn't just the cool things he did. He was super fucking interesting. If he didn't do any mentalism stuff. Let's say you just talked about his running. He. He's such a good storyteller. So much all the right energy. He was non confrontational. He was open to things. He also had a lot of knowledge. He's also doing difficult shit. It's like Rogan audience is the perfect audience for a dude like this. Like he's absolutely nailed this.
- [33:44]
Nick
And I'm buying his book, ready to do buy even starting to do my show now. I'll just go listen. When we do an episode, I'll go listen to the Rogan episode and I'll be like he. His pauses in between thoughts. His guest is talking and he's right at the end of it with a question he's already formulated what he wants to say and where he wants to bring the conversation. And that's only reps, that's only practice. You get so good at something that it's second. It's not even like second major. It just is. You're just there. You're where you want to be. You can't get any better.
- [34:24]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [34:24]
Nick
You know, and then you meet somebody that is at the top of their field, this very obscure field, and you get somebody that's so good at podcasting and interviewing and talking and then you suck them in. Well, that's complete control over your audience.
- [34:44]
Adam Thorne
Sure.
- [34:44]
Nick
And then you've got Joe's audience too. Because if you, if the audience sees Joe is in like leaning forward listening to this guy. Now I've got everybody. I got millions of people.
- [34:54]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Well, you know, when he tech Shane Gillis and the guy didn't know who it was, but then this. He was able to guess the Name of, you know, Shane's first crush. And then Shane replies, that's a witch. Kill him. Like, very funny. But that's also like kind of the perfect comedy response. It's like, people shouldn't be able to do this. As far as we can tell, they shouldn't be able to. And it's wild. And you can imagine that the insinuation of that joke is that they will use it for evil things. Right. It's kind of. It. It's like he needs to be stopped. That's too much power. And it's kind of true.
- [35:43]
Nick
I can see that. Didn't they bring up the witches at one point?
- [35:48]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, well, they were basically saying, could people do this in the past? And I wonder if they were the people accused of being witches. You know, maybe. What do they call male witches?
- [36:01]
Nick
Warlocks, Wiccan, Warlock?
- [36:03]
Adam Thorne
I don't know.
- [36:04]
Nick
But yeah, yeah, if. Yeah. People do stuff you can't explain, like that's magical. But then if they do stuff that you can't explain, but you don't even know that they're doing it to you, that's beyond that. You're just manipulating people to get them to a result that you already want. A predetermined result that you've already. You're leading them to. So, you know, you can do it. In interviews, you've seen in documentaries, police will lead innocent people to confessing to a crime they didn't do.
- [36:41]
Adam Thorne
Right.
- [36:42]
Nick
How that takes some skill, you know, and time and bending and breaking the rules to get innocent people to convey. Confess to crimes they didn't commit.
- [36:51]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Wasn't that, like the idea of making a murderer, that documentary you ever watched that?
- [36:56]
Nick
I did. Yeah, that. Like that up here, right?
- [37:01]
Adam Thorne
That, like, young kid that just seemed pretty dumb, bless him. And those cops just kind of like force that into him. I'm not saying he didn't do it like the justice system, you figure it out, but it just. The way that they set it up in that documentary definitely seemed to imply that the cops just put that in his head.
- [37:25]
Nick
Yeah. There wouldn't be a need for Innocence Project or Foundations of the like if that wasn't a thing. People get stuff in their head and they will do whatever it takes to get to the result that they want. That's for. In the. They're virtuous in their justice or seeking of justice. Well, no, they're just a. You know, like, you don't actually want the truth. You just want to wrap this up where. I don't think this guy is using it in any malicious way. He's just using it, you know, to entertain, to. To quiet down whatever he's got in his head.
- [38:07]
Adam Thorne
Sure.
- [38:07]
Nick
He has to perform at this level because it's so difficult. This is such a difficult thing, you know? And as he said, you can eat it hard. Like the. The cost benefit ratio. If you succeed, it's very cool. If you fail, it's very uncool. So, yeah, you. Yeah, it's. I don't know. I think it just seems like he's a master at what he's doing, his mental state and where he wants to be.
- [38:40]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. I mean, throwing in the coin toss, like, multiple outcomes. The fact that Joe even asked for another coin, then the Muhammad Ali, Miles Davis one was interesting. He kind of. It was interesting because he said Miles Davis first, but then he goes, no. There was another one, though. Right. So I don't know if it was, like, that was part of it, made it more accurate, or he just somehow got someone else's, like, name into Joe's head. I don't know. I couldn't figure that one out at all. But I don't know. That wouldn't have been my guess. Like, ultimate podcast guest. Like, I guess you could assume it would be someone that's dead, but I'm surprised he didn't say Hunter S. Thompson. You know, there's. There's another dude that's, like, the psychedelic guy. What the hell's his name? Dennis McKenna. And was it Dennis? Is that the one? There's two brothers. One's a mushroom guy, the other one is the philosopher psychedelic guy. Anyway, those would have been my guesses, just knowing Rogan and what he's talked about. But Muhammad Ali's a good, good guess, too. But just to put all your chips on that. I mean, he had to get so many pieces correct. It's very interesting stuff, dude.
- [40:11]
Nick
I don't know what that is. I. If we knew everything that he knew, it probably wouldn't be as crazy as we think it is.
- [40:21]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, we would have saw it all coming. We'd have been like, oh, that makes sense.
- [40:26]
Nick
Complete control of your operational environment.
- [40:29]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. I wonder what, like, nefarious things you could do with it. Like, would it be vast? You know, would you be able to just, like, sell people anything, convince them to invest in every idea you have? Like, I wonder what the level of that could be. Potentially.
- [40:52]
Nick
Defrauding the elderly, lonely women to fall in love with you online and steal all their life savings.
- [40:59]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, we know people do that.
- [41:02]
Nick
Yeah. You don't give a. About people. You can. You can really do some damage. And they. The general public doesn't think people are coming to them from a place of negativity. They want to assume. We really generally want to assume that people aren't out to hurt us because that sucks. Right. If you're just always thinking everybody's out to get you, whether that's a lack of experience or just misplaced trust in people, you want to think everybody's as good as you think you are, when that's not even true. So people can play on that and get things from you that you don't want to give them because you have this predetermined trust of the general population.
- [41:53]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Or you at least want to believe that the very kind people that you're talking to or people that sound very kind are the ones that should be at least trusted somewhat. So when they turn on you because, again, it's all nefarious, like, it's. It kind of shakes your world because you're like, wow, now I can't tell who is going to screw me over. I think that's why, you know, especially for teenagers, that breakups, you know, that first love or someone cheats on you or those kind of things like stay with people for so long, they kind of really mess them up for a good amount of time because, well, one, they haven't experienced it before, but it. But this is someone that they trusted so much and then a different outcome happened and it rocks your world. It's like. It's hard to recover from those things.
- [42:53]
Nick
Now. The lack of experience there. The first time something happens to you that's going to stand out the most. I really don't remember winning in sports in high school. I remember all of my losses, though. Really, I remember. I more. I don't know. I don't know fondly is the right word. But more seared in my memory is when I went to Special Forces selection and got medically dropped the first time. How shitty that felt because I got lumped in with all the people that quit. I couldn't bend my knee. But hey, you got to go over, hang out with those people and listen to their excuses and things that hurt so bad that I didn't let anything like that happen. When I went back and then I went through the course, it was such a. It was such a painful experience for me that I used it to turn into a. A monster, really. I went back and absolutely dominated because I didn't want to feel like that ever again.
- [43:58]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [43:59]
Nick
But I was obsessed with getting to my goal. I didn't care what the pain was. I didn't care what it took to get there. I didn't care if I had to sacrifice my friends, my family, everything else just to not feel that way again. We get back to being in control of your mental state. You are in control of your emotions. No matter how much you tell or other people tell you, you're not it. You choose whether to be an or a good person or successful or a failure. Because, you know, they say like there's multiple people. No, you're one person. It's. The problem is choice. You have to choose what you want to do. You can choose to be an or you can choose to be a nice person. You are. It's the same person. You're not a different body. You might act differently. You might self medicate with booze. You might, you know, take your problems out on other people, but you choose what to do with the experiences and the negative things that happen in your life. Like he ran this ultramarathon and, and did terrible the first time, quit on himself. And you could tell in the way he was talking about that like that deeply affected him.
- [45:11]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [45:12]
Nick
Before he came back and crushed it the second time.
- [45:14]
Adam Thorne
Well, remember that guy too that he spoke to and was like, you don't ever quit. Like he just kind of like threw him this little line that he just took with him and next year was.
- [45:27]
Nick
Just like, oh, because that guy had quit before.
- [45:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [45:31]
Nick
And he knew and it, and it affected his whole life where he probably doesn't even think of how well he's done on things he only thinks about. I don't ever want to feel like that ever again. You don't ever quit because once you do, it's never going away. It's never going away.
- [45:49]
Adam Thorne
And is it back to that thing? And this is kind of like the theme that I'm seeing. It's like you put the task above yourself and so few people do that. Yet I would say everybody wants success in their own way. Everyone wants to master something in their own way. And maybe you can't do that either unless you decide on a task that's bigger than you. And until you do, you never, you never can master it because. Because of the sacrifice required to get that good.
- [46:23]
Nick
Yeah.
- [46:24]
Adam Thorne
I don't know.
- [46:26]
Nick
It has to be the most important thing. And can you have a normal life and do that? Maybe if you're squared away enough and you can compartmentalize your life and, and not torpedo your relationships with People and make it the only thing and start working in your life. Can it be successful? Sure. Was I able to do that? No, I, I made it my only focus in life.
- [46:52]
Adam Thorne
So yeah, the balance, the balance tough. I'm sure you've got to have some really, you got to have some people around you and in your life that really understand this pursuit that you're on and kind of allow for it, you know, all supported.
- [47:08]
Nick
Yeah, there's. And other people aren't going to understand either. But at the end of the day, at the end of your life, when you close your eyes for the last time, you are the only person that is there in your head. Did, did I do my best? Did I do everything I could do is am I happy with what I accomplished? And that should be driving your thoughts. And if it's this thing that you think will make you happy, I guarantee you it probably isn't going to make you happy. Getting there is going to make you happy. Arriving is not right because nobody's happy when they arrive to where they think they want to be. They would just want to keep going. And it's all this path to get there that makes them happy. All these things that they learn along the way. So there is no destination. The only thing, the only destination in life is to die. That's the only thing you're going, you're working towards your entire life. The rest of it is just to be happy in the journey to get there.
- [48:13]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. The inescapable truth we do.
- [48:17]
Nick
That's why it doesn't, doesn't bother me like at all. Like it's a, it's a known fact that one day it's all going to end. So I don't care. I, I, I don't. And that's it. That's a kind of a shitty way to look at it. But it just took so much like, like why worry about it? You know, I just, I got other to worry about. Why not just worry about being happy? A lot of bad. I ruined my life getting to that point to get those experiences. So not everybody's going to be there. At the same time there's people that are farther ahead of me in their perspective of what life is. And there's people way behind me. So. But I go back to. There's only one person in my head making me feel good or making me feel bad and that's me. Nobody else is there. We surround ourselves with people that we like and our friends. But when, when you lay down, there's only one voice in Your head and that's the one you got to be happy with.
- [49:18]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, I think in a lot of ways that is like kind of even in relationship to this podcast. Like what is a mentalist? It's one thing to guess all these things, but it's exactly what you said at the beginning, like control over your emotions. And he talked about, he said he was like, I feel like a sniper sometimes. Like I can control my breathing and even if I feel scared, it's like my body is not showing it. Nothing in there is. Like, this guy definitely has a very positive attitude. He's very grateful. Thankful like. And yeah, obviously he's quite famous now. He makes I'm sure really good money. Those corporate things. Like there are things that are working well for him. But I'm sure his attitude early on was a lot like this too. And honing that in and believing in just kind of the good and not being negative and skeptical and down on yourself and then also finding that task that's bigger than you. I mean even if you have to be like a bit of a psycho like he is, that's probably a more fulfilling pursuit than frickin making excuses, you know?
- [50:31]
Nick
Absolutely. Absolutely. The. I don't know, it's. He seems to have found what makes him happy and it sounds like it anyway. Or, or from the flip side of it, it could all be an act. He's miserable and he's just putting on a, a show as an act. Right. He is just a comedian. He is just this act up on stage giving this false sense because you don't really know.
- [51:02]
Adam Thorne
No, you people.
- [51:04]
Nick
Nobody, you know, everybody is. Has something else going on behind the scenes. So I'm sure there's more to the story.
- [51:11]
Adam Thorne
Everyone has some darkness in there somewhere. It's just like what you're doing with it and where you put it.
- [51:17]
Nick
That's not my opinion. He seems pretty genuine. It seems like he's just out having a good time doing exactly what he wants to do. Yeah, I could be wrong.
- [51:27]
Adam Thorne
I liked him. I, I think I, I think that he's awesome. I hope that he comes back on. I am interested by his book. I don't know what I can get out of it but it, you know, I read like those type of self help books anyway. You know, new like Learn a Habit or the War of Art. Those types of things. Like they just kind of are inspiring. I don't always know what I get out of them, but it's like I feel productive doing it and I'm curious to kind of see what he has to say in there. And yeah, I hope he's back on. It was just a good episode. He'd be a great person to bring on every now and again. And like he said, every time he's trying to up the ante, I would like him to come on and it be like bigger and better things each time. And just like you said, this show, this platform, Rogan's podcast is the place for him to show off his craft because he already.
- [52:28]
Nick
Yeah, he already planted the seed for the next time he comes on. He's got something locked in the safe a bit he couldn't work in. Yeah, geez, that's even. That's even a second level. He got him hooked for the second time.
- [52:42]
Adam Thorne
Joe's gonna want to get in that safe. He wants to know.
- [52:45]
Nick
Yeah, he's gonna want to know eventually. He's gonna be like, what the in that? What is in that? I gotta know. Hey, get this guy back on.
- [52:51]
Adam Thorne
Love it. All right, Nick, I think that's it for this week. Thanks for joining me as always. Guys, go check out lesser known operators. This show is blowing up. Get on Instagram, follow up, put links in there. That's it for us. Love you guys. Later.