450 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Ken Burns

Summary

Episode 450: Reviewing Ken Burns on the Joe Rogan Experience

Release Date: June 21, 2025

In Episode 450 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast, hosts Adam Thorne and Peter delve into a captivating analysis of Ken Burns's appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience. This episode offers listeners an engaging exploration of Burns's influential work as a documentarian, his storytelling prowess, and his profound impact on American historical narratives.

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1. Introduction to Ken Burns

Kicking off the episode, Adam sets the stage by emphasizing Ken Burns's stature in the world of documentary filmmaking. He remarks, “We are reviewing Ken Burns the documentarian. Wow, what a guest.” (00:43) Peter complements this by acknowledging Burns's legendary status, stating, “He's a legend among his craft there.” (00:53) The hosts establish Burns as a cornerstone of American documentary storytelling, revered for his meticulous research and enduring narratives.

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2. Ken Burns's Approach and Style

Adam and Peter explore Burns's distinctive style, highlighting his commitment to detailed research and balanced storytelling. Adam notes, “The information is just kind of all over the place. But what you can guarantee with Ken, even though it's not like the most thrilling thing maybe you've ever seen, is the information is like heavily vetted.” (02:39) This dedication to accuracy sets Burns apart from the rapidly produced, often superficial content prevalent on modern streaming platforms.

Peter adds, “He goes out of his way, him and his team, to not, as he says, put his thumb on the scale.” (02:47) This impartiality ensures that Burns's documentaries present facts objectively, allowing viewers to form their own interpretations without overt bias.

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3. Storytelling and Personal Connections

The conversation shifts to Burns's storytelling techniques, particularly his ability to weave personal narratives into historical contexts. Adam shares a heartfelt reflection, “The story of his father who didn't express a lot of emotion... he said, you know what? That's what it's about.” (04:18) This anecdote underscores how Burns uses personal experiences to humanize historical events, making them relatable and emotionally resonant for audiences.

Peter echoes this sentiment, stating, “That's when I decided that telling a story could transcend people's fixed abilities to show emotion.” (05:02) The hosts discuss how Burns's narratives often explore themes of grief, resilience, and the human condition, enhancing the depth and impact of his documentaries.

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4. Focus on American Wars: Civil and Revolutionary

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Burns's exploration of American wars, particularly the Civil War and the Revolutionary War. Adam reflects on Burns's portrayal of the Revolutionary War as America’s first Civil War, stating, “It made America our first Civil War. Right. And that's weird, too.” (22:09) This perspective invites listeners to reconsider familiar historical narratives through Burns's insightful lens.

Peter delves into specific figures, mentioning Robert E. Lee: “Robert E. Lee... He was like, General Lee.” (23:15) The discussion highlights how Burns presents complex historical figures, balancing their contributions with their flaws, thereby offering a nuanced understanding of their roles in shaping American history.

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5. Personal Anecdotes and Emotional Depth

Adam and Peter interweave personal stories to illustrate the emotional depth Burns brings to his work. Adam shares, “Imagine how hard that would be. Dude. I think I was probably 11 when my grandmother died...” (06:03) This personal touch underscores the universal themes of loss and resilience that Burns frequently explores, making historical events more accessible and emotionally impactful for viewers.

Peter adds, “It's like, imagine Ken can help stop wars with his documentaries.” (27:51) This highlights the transformative power of storytelling in fostering understanding and empathy, suggesting that Burns's work has the potential to influence real-world perspectives and relationships.

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6. Comparison with Other Documentary Styles

The hosts compare Burns's meticulous approach to the more rapid, high-visual-impact documentaries favored by streaming giants like Netflix. Adam observes, “Before that it was PBS and there they just weren't that many you would ever see. And since the streaming services, they kind of leaned into it... but what you can guarantee with Ken is heavily vetted information.” (01:38) This contrast emphasizes Burns's dedication to depth over speed, underscoring the enduring value of his comprehensive research and thoughtful presentation.

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7. Historical Accuracy and Research

Adam and Peter commend Burns's unwavering commitment to historical accuracy. Peter notes, “He's looking for those truths.” (03:39) They discuss how Burns and his team painstakingly verify facts, ensuring that each documentary serves as a reliable educational resource. This meticulousness not only preserves historical integrity but also builds trust with the audience.

Adam adds, “He pulls it right out. He knows what he's... all his sayings like the one that attributed to Samuel Clemens, Mark Twain about. We all say history repeats itself, but it never has.” (24:42) This dedication to factual storytelling reinforces Burns's reputation as a trustworthy documentarian who prioritizes truth over sensationalism.

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8. Impact on Audiences and Education

The hosts discuss the profound educational impact of Burns's documentaries. Adam likens watching a Burns documentary to taking a comprehensive academic course: “It's like taking a class... You end up with way more knowledge than it's a semester.” (25:34) Peter concurs, highlighting how Burns's work fosters independent thinking and a deeper appreciation for history’s complexities.

They also note the resurgence of interest in Burns's documentaries among new generations, suggesting that his work bridges the gap between traditional educational media and contemporary audiences. Adam remarks, “It's really great because he has such a fantastic backlog. And who knows, like, maybe the newer generation has just kind of missed a lot of those, right?” (32:16) This underscores the timeless relevance of Burns's documentaries in educating and inspiring diverse audiences.

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9. Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Concluding the episode, Adam and Peter passionately endorse Ken Burns's work. Adam states, “He loves America and really understands it. Knows what it has done, how it changed the world.” (34:19) Peter echoes this admiration, emphasizing the importance of Burns's documentaries in preserving and interpreting America's rich historical tapestry.

They encourage listeners to explore Burns's extensive catalog, asserting that his documentaries offer invaluable insights and foster a deeper understanding of America's past. Adam wraps up with, “Check out the Ken Burns. It's worth it.” (34:26) leaving listeners with a clear recommendation to engage with Burns’s work for a more informed and enriched perspective on history.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Adam Thorne: “The information is just kind of all over the place. But what you can guarantee with Ken, even though it's not like the most thrilling thing maybe you've ever seen, is the information is like heavily vetted.” (02:39)

• Peter: “He goes out of his way, him and his team, to not, as he says, put his thumb on the scale.” (02:47)

• Adam Thorne: “The story of his father who didn't express a lot of emotion... he said, you know what? That's what it's about.” (04:18)

• Peter: “That's when I decided that telling a story could transcend people's fixed abilities to show emotion.” (05:02)

• Adam Thorne: “History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Ooh, what a good one.” (24:52)

• Peter: “It's like taking a class... You end up with way more knowledge than it's a semester.” (25:34)

• Adam Thorne: “He loves America and really understands it. Knows what it has done, how it changed the world.” (34:19)

---

Conclusion

Episode 450 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast offers a comprehensive and insightful examination of Ken Burns's contributions to documentary filmmaking and American historical discourse. Through thoughtful analysis and personal reflections, Adam Thorne and Peter highlight the enduring relevance and profound impact of Burns's work, making a compelling case for listeners to engage with his documentaries to gain a richer understanding of America's past.

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Timestamps

• Introduction to Ken Burns: 00:00 - 03:12
• Ken Burns's Approach and Style: 00:26 - 02:39
• Storytelling and Personal Connections: 03:12 - 07:37
• Focus on American Wars: 07:37 - 23:00
• Personal Anecdotes: 06:03 - 07:37
• Comparison with Other Styles: 01:38 - 07:37
• Historical Accuracy: 23:00 - 34:16
• Impact on Education: 25:34 - 34:16
• Final Thoughts: 34:16 - 34:26

Transcript

[A]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's Walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your hosts, Adam Thorne might.

[B]

Either be the worst podcast or the best one.

[A]

One go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys. And welcome to another episode of the JRE Review. Joining me today is Peter, back on the scene.

[B]

A good day. Adam.

[A]

There we go. Welcome.

[B]

I'm here.

[A]

Glad you're here. We are reviewing Ken Burns the documentarian. Wow, what a guest.

[B]

He's legend among his craft there.

[A]

I think casuals don't even realize I've heard that they don't even know.

[B]

I don't even know who this guy is.

[A]

Yeah. Legend. So, yeah. What, what did you know about Ken Burns?

[B]

Before this podcast, he worked for PBS almost exclusively. I grew up on his. Some of his more kid friendly ones, but he's got, he's kind of known for a really sleepy vibe with his work. Yeah, a lot of sad Irish music. Your favorite kind of music by the way.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Yeah, it's nice. He just takes 10 years or more for one of his bigger ones. He does incredible stuff.

[A]

Right. Super detailed, super well researched. And to be honest, I mean, Netflix has done a lot for documentaries. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like before that it was PBS and there they just weren't that many you would ever see. And since the streaming services, they kind of like lent into it, there was some interest. But the downside of that is you start getting those ones that are just, just knocked out right away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they're quickly produced, they're high viz. It's almost like a social media and then everything's debunked on it and it's like, yeah, being a vegan isn't that healthy after watching whatever Two Forks or whatever that one was. So, yeah, the information is just kind of all over the place. But what you can guarantee with Ken, even though it's not like the most thrilling thing maybe you've ever seen, is the information is like heavily vetted.

[B]

Right. Yeah. He goes out of his way, him and his team, to not, as he says, put his thumb on the scale. Am I coming in too hot?

[A]

No, that's good.

[B]

Yeah. He's so.

[A]

I mean, for Ken Burns. Yeah. Already you got to be slower. You got to speak more gently. And we're going to need some Irish.

[B]

Music, some flogging, Molly in the background, potentially. I guess that's why they stand the test of time and why he's been widely regarded as the best American documentarian.

[A]

That's a big deal.

[B]

He loves his country and you don't know where he stands with today's facts or politics. Zeitgeist politics. And that's why there's, like, for one, stand the test of time and also aren't so sought after with like, maybe the person that wants all that fiery, opinionated stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this stuff is facts.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As far as he can. As far as they can ever be a fact. He's looking for those truths.

[A]

And he's such a good storyteller too. I mean, it's not the first time I've heard the story of his father. He said it multiple times. It's clearly something that he's locked into and knows how to describe. Yoff must have a lot of speaking engagements. And it's kind of like the beginning of his. His little elevator speech for introducing himself and where his passion comes from. But you know, that story of his father who didn't express a lot of emotion, like many people of that generation, especially men.

[B]

A lot of our fathers.

[A]

Yeah, grandfathers, whatever. And you know, his wife, you know, well, Ken's mom, his father's wife died, you know, was. Had cancer most of his life. And even through all that hardship and pain, his dad didn't show any emotion, but took him to a movie and they're watching it and he's just able to release. Yeah, he's able to cry. And that was when Ken said, you know what? That's what it's about.

[B]

That's when I decided that telling a story could transcend people's fixed abilities to show emotion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let the story come through and tell it and tug on the heartstrings and where you can even get a crusty Vietnam vet or Korean vet to open up and shed some tears. I think his mom died when he was 11.

[A]

I know. Imagine how hard that would be. Dude. I think I was probably 11 when my grandmother died. And that was the first person that was close to me that I knew. My first experience with death. And she was sick. All just very slow, you know, my whole life. And I mean physically, it wasn't like Joe Biden slow. And she just couldn't move.

[B]

Well, bedridden almost.

[A]

No, just like hobbling around, walking stick. And you Know, it was just. And she was. When I was born, she was 60.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

No, 58. She wasn't like that old, but she was just always kind of decrepit. So she had a hard life.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

She had a lot of kids.

[B]

Was it kids or what was the country or the air, though?

[A]

I don't know. You know, she grew up very poor. Probably nutrition was bad. You know, people were sick.

[B]

Spitting rocks out of the beans kind of thing.

[A]

Dude. Her. My grandmother's father, my great grandfather used to go pick snails off the wall, like at the end of their garden and boil them up because they had.

[B]

No money for food in England or in France. That's a delicacy in England. That's just what you do to survive.

[A]

Yeah, it's just something that really poor people did. They didn't have any garlic butter. They just boil it up and had with cabbage. But, yeah, she had a tough life. Right. But my point is, that was my first experience with it and it was devastating. But of course, I still have my parents. Imagine that, being one of your parents at that age. Now all of a sudden you don't have a mother. It's something else.

[B]

And on some people's moms gone for too long.

[A]

Yeah, strong moms out there.

[B]

Yeah, strong. God bless him.

[A]

God bless him. But, yeah, interesting. Talks a lot about kind of living in New Hampshire, connected to. You know, he kind of connects that to his influence and his perspective on life and storytelling and just kind of like trauma growing up. And it goes a lot into the Civil War. It's very fascinated about that. But really also the Revolutionary War seems like the thing that captured his attention the most.

[B]

A big part of it. What happened right there, where he is living now and has always lived.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Maybe that's one of his choices about not moving to LA or New York. Even though he was offered incredible positions early on, he said, I'd like to finish my first documentary and documentary first, you know, he said, I could take this job. Equivalent of 800,000 a year. He turned it down in order to fulfill his future that he thought he had.

[A]

Yeah. And it paid off.

[B]

Paid off.

[A]

Yeah. Bit of a gamble. Good work.

[B]

We wouldn't have known him if he took that whatever film job he was offered. But now we got a whole treasure trove of knowledge. His Lewis and Clark is my favorite one. Yeah, I've seen that a couple times.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

What a story.

[A]

That crazy dude.

[B]

Yeah. Like, what an adventure.

[A]

Who would ever even think that would be worth it? What did they expect to achieve from that other than slowly die of some.

[B]

Sort of weird east western illness.

[A]

Bear attack.

[B]

There were still people who were practicing cannibalism as a way of life out here, especially in this part of the world.

[A]

Really? Montana?

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Montana cannibals?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Don't fact check me or maybe do Google it, but it was. I think the Nez Perce were known for it quite a bit. And maybe the Crow as well. A lot of folks had hard times. A lot of enemies. When you get an enemy, what do you do?

[A]

Eat them.

[B]

You're not going to waste it. Can't waste that stuff. And they traveled into that knowingly and like they saw prairie dog and it blew their mind. A prairie dog?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like what is that? Little ground rodent.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And then they also from that one formed some long lasting allegiances and love for the native folks in this land.

[A]

How did they navigate that stuff? And the waters and the people, they.

[B]

Only had one period of time where they were shot with arrows.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In the whole expedition, there was only one aggression. Aggression, not bad. And it was just a testing of their strength essentially. And they came through it. And maybe they traded some horses or something, but they also relied heavily upon the Native Americans while they're cruising out here.

[A]

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[B]

Is it Sacagawea? Yeah. She was a huge part of the. Of the stuff we remember about that.

[A]

I wonder how you even initiate that. Do you just walk in with your hands up high and you're like, hey, let's be cool. I got some trinkets she can have.

[B]

And swap them beads and pop.

[A]

And then the whole time, the whole village at least, all the guys are just staring at you like they want to kill you. And to walk, you know, rightly so. You're like a stranger. You look way different. It's like, why would they trust you? And then there was just this process of like, hey, we cool? We're just traveling.

[B]

We're just taking a peek. The great chief in the east wants to know what's going on over here.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Wants to talk to your chief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think from then. From then on, there was a pretty constant stream of western Native Americans coming to check out the east and say, let's see what this chief's all about, huh?

[A]

So there were some allegiances, alliances made.

[B]

Maybe I think lasting ones. Because guess what? We have some of the most land dedicated to native populations in the world still here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The reservations we have here, like them or hate them, they're their sovereign territory.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. I'm going up to one actually next week we're going up to Fort Peck.

[B]

Do a bit of gambling, no doubt.

[A]

There's no casinos that I know of there might go, but. Well, there's a theater. We're gonna go watch some plays and look, it's not my idea, bro. That's my sister in law. She does it. I go to support. I'm a supportive person. And it's, you know, that whole area. There's a huge lake up there, Fort Peck. So it's like. I think it's like northwest Montana. Don't quote me. Pretty sure it's that way. And it's, you know, it's a beautiful place. The lake's huge. The area, it's like all owned by, you know, the natives. They kind of rent it for the theater area.

[B]

And is there some venues there for some plays?

[A]

They have a. Yeah, like a really old theater.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

Yeah. Cool. It's definitely haunted. I don't believe in ghosts, but when I was in there was like, there might be one.

[B]

Some. There's some native witches up here, mind.

[A]

No, I think just like actors that died in there, like 50 years ago. You know, what else would make a good ghost other than an actor that died because they love the Attention.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Sad Victorian mums are high on my list of what will haunt something.

[A]

Yeah. Young Victorian girls in, like, little white dresses. Yeah. At the end of a hallway. That's how they do it.

[B]

Clip clopping, laughing, bouncing a ball.

[A]

Definitely playing. And then only. Only for some reason, like, one person in the movie sees them. That's a big part of it.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Because the rest of the movie, everyone else has to say, that person is crazy.

[B]

Do you think Ken Burns has a favorite haunted movie? Scary movie.

[A]

Yeah, it. 100%. He's scared of clowns. I saw it in his eyes. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

The twinkle.

[A]

Yeah. He's a delicate little gentleman, isn't he?

[B]

He appears like a delicate gentleman, but I think he has a massive intellect.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

He's a thinker.

[A]

Way smarter than me, for sure. Come on.

[B]

Out of this realm.

[A]

I know. Couldn't even begin. Imagine how many books he's read.

[B]

Millions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Millions, sure. Yeah. How many books have been written? Half of those.

[A]

He read half of those.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Imagine he.

[B]

Look.

[A]

Research.

[B]

He looks like my gay aunt. I'm just gonna put it out there.

[A]

Throw it out there. I mean, bless him, sweetheart.

[B]

I like his bangs.

[A]

It was really cool, actually, just watching Rogan kind of interact, you know, Rogan's a fan. He has been. He loves those types of things.

[B]

He always talks about him.

[A]

And just to be able to sit there with him, it's like, this really was a big guest, like, a big guess for Rogan. Like, you got to think right now, there's very few. It's getting to the point where he's got very few people just kind of, like, blow Rogan's mind.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, you know, it's just great when you see them. Come on. Bill Murray was like that for him.

[B]

He was starstruck.

[A]

Oh, yeah. He didn't know what to do. He's like, holy shit, I'm in front of Bill Murray. Bill Murray's like, I have no idea who you are.

[B]

You're Joe.

[A]

He's like, who's Joe?

[B]

Pointing at Jamie.

[A]

He just points to the dog. Is that Joe?

[B]

No.

[A]

That's what is a podcast we rolling.

[B]

Do we have time? He's like, we got time, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could tell any weird story. You please tell whatever weird story, dude.

[A]

Tell them all and spend an hour doing it.

[B]

I've listened to that one again because it's.

[A]

It's very good. It's very, very good. You know, I'd never thought of the Revolutionary War as a civil war and the way that he put it. That was really interesting. So it was the separatists versus the Loyalists. Loyalists, yeah.

[B]

And why would you.

[A]

People that were American or were they considered British colonists?

[B]

They were. They were. They were Rhode Islanders. They were New Hampshireites. They were Delawareans. They were 13 separate colonies.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

As opposed to the colony and Australia, which is, you know, if you were a prostitute or a bread thief or murderer or tax evader, you would. You had the choice to go to the new colonies in America or the other colonies in Australia. So easy.

[A]

Easy choice.

[B]

Easy choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going to Connecticut. Every time.

[A]

Connecticut every time.

[B]

I'm gonna try to find the tallest, cutest Native American girl.

[A]

I don't want to fight a kangaroo for my dog. No, I mean, I seen that video a thousand times, and every time I watch it, I'm like, that guy's way tougher than me.

[B]

I don't have a left hook.

[A]

I'd be like, sorry, Fido. Sorry, Fido.

[B]

Was he trying to drown it in a stream or something?

[A]

I don't know. They just, like, hold the dogs. They're good at doing it.

[B]

And then, like, rip them with their bottom feet.

[A]

Yeah. And that guy was not having it crack.

[B]

Yeah. My old dog I would fight for, but this one I got here in the studio, I might give it up.

[A]

Why? You just haven't known it that long. You haven't built that connection.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Yeah. Well, to be killed by a kangaroo over a dog seems like a dumb idea. Not gonna lie.

[B]

You know, I might try to take back control and choke it out. What? Yeah, I try to arm drag and just take back control on that.

[A]

Zero chance, dude.

[B]

Really don't think I could.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Have you seen those ripped ones that look like they're taking testosterone?

[A]

Just jam your hand in his pouch, steal his wallet, feel around, get out of there.

[B]

It's gooey in there.

[A]

It'd be a mess.

[B]

Look for a joey. I don't think the males have a pouch, but.

[A]

Oh, sorry. How do you know it was a male? That's sexist. You assume. Maybe the females are actually the best at killing dogs.

[B]

Sorry, everybody. It was. I assumed it's gender.

[A]

Does it make it worse if he punched the female?

[B]

Kangaroo kills it. A joey comes out. Now he has to raise a kangaroo.

[A]

He's just there with a little milk bottle. It's just a beautiful story hopping around. We kind of. Kind of went left on this one, but sure enough, back to America. Well, so the tea party kind of kicked it off, right? Or the tea dumping the tea, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's very famous. And it was interesting to hear that they dressed as natives and it was thought by some to just be like, oh, they did this to blame them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But really it was because the outfits were so crude that it was clearly not native people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But they're saying, hey, we are this now. Yeah, we're not British anymore. We're not paying your damn taxes.

[B]

And it was to symbolize an allegiance to a new place. We are a new thing.

[A]

Wasn't it like a 4% tax?

[B]

It was not a tax. There was anything on anybody. No problem.

[A]

Yeah. But they still didn't like it.

[B]

They said, throw the tea, and they fought back. Yeah, throw the tea in the water. Because the tea represents the kingdom. King George's. King George's tea.

[A]

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[B]

Get rid of it because we're not part of this shit anymore. Yeah, it wasn't even the tax. It was just a declaration of war.

[A]

Bold move. Bold move. And what was it? Tons of tea as well, I think.

[B]

I don't know how much it was, but it was quite a bit. A whole ship's load.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder if he jumped in there and be nice.

[B]

Nice little salty beverage.

[A]

Salty tea. It's like a kombucha.

[B]

It's not bad, actually.

[A]

I don't know. But yeah, it's amazing to think that that is, like, what really spurred it and going back to George Washington and how much of a hero he is, you know, there's been a lot of legends over the years, and, you know, we often put them on pedestal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, whether it's Napoleon or. Or Alexander the Great, you know, I mean, we don't really put Genghis Khan on a pedestal, to be fair, but he conquered a lot of stuff.

[B]

There is some revisionist stuff going on where, oh, he had a peaceful empire. Well, he had a peaceful empire because he created a wasteland. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. They were all mass murderers that just murdered a bunch of people. But what George was doing, and he, you know, didn't always make the best decisions like he had some disastrous thing, but just inspired people and against all odds. This is what I love. When Ken was saying, you know, what he thinks the most important moment in history is since Jesus Christ or whatever it was, he's like, it's. The next thing was the Revolutionary War. It made America our first Civil War. Right. And that's weird, too. Right. So I wonder if there's ever going to be a time where we call the Civil War the second Civil War.

[B]

It's more like the state's rebellions.

[A]

Civil War.

[B]

Yeah. 2.0, part two, Rise of General Lee.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

And I like the way he talks about that. The leader of that. What was his name? Lee.

[A]

Lee. Yeah.

[B]

Geez. I forgot. I can't believe I'm spacing on his name, but he was like, General. General Lee. Gosh darn. I forgot his name. But I like him for his allegiance to his causes. I think he was a Virginia man.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's like, are you gonna join the north or the South? Well, his family will fight for the south. And I have to do this because.

[A]

Robert E. Lee.

[B]

Robert E. Lee. I'm sorry, everybody.

[A]

That's okay. Ulysses S. Grant.

[B]

What a drunk.

[A]

Big player.

[B]

They all had so many issues. Stonewall Jackson, I think that wasn't he from. Was he a little later? Did he fight before that?

[A]

That's a strong name, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe that.

[A]

He was General Lee's key lieutenant.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yep. I mean, I'm pulling all this just out of my own knowledge and memory. I did not Chachi BT that. Right.

[B]

Then he just scratched his head and said the name.

[A]

And I was like, all the Civil War books I've read, I actually have read a couple. It's amazing how much shit you forget. It's super annoying. I would love to just be able to pull that stuff up.

[B]

Ken does.

[A]

He can.

[B]

He pulls it right out.

[A]

Oh, yeah. He knows what he's.

[B]

All his sayings like the one that attributed to Samuel Clemens, Mark Twain about. We all say history repeats itself, but it never has.

[A]

That one I liked.

[B]

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Ooh, what a good one.

[A]

That is good.

[B]

That's not a bad one, is it?

[A]

That's not bad. Are we repeating history a little bit with Iran here? Not to get too political, but it is relevant to the time.

[B]

It sounds like they're rhyming right now, at least.

[A]

I saw a great meme today where it was like an old Israeli tablet. They were like, this is 2,500-year-old Israeli tablet. And they used AI to translate it. And the quote was that the translation was, Persia is two weeks away from having a nuclear weapon.

[B]

The bomb is in the United States at this moment.

[A]

Well, listen, my. Where I'm suspicious and I'm not trying to take sides, but, you know, fool me once, shame on you, right? I can't get fooled again.

[B]

You can't fool me.

[A]

You can fool me again. So, you know, Iraq, they were like, yeah, they got nukes, weapons of mass destruction. That was the big thing. And I was 100% for it. I was like, that can't be good. No, let's get rid of them. And then they go in there and they're like, we found nothing.

[B]

And they.

[A]

And they have been saying this about Iran for a while now. Look, if you want to just put your trust in government intel, you know, I believe they know what's going on, but I don't know if they tell us what's going on. They tell us things to make us want to do what they want to do, right? And I think they just want to go blow them up. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now they're like, actually, they. No, they didn't have any. They weren't even close. And then I'm like, how many times does this have to happen before we're like, we gotta stop listening to these guys?

[B]

We're quickly coming to a place in our country's history and in our world history where we're not going to be able to be fooled anymore? Thanks to the Open Forum of X.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think it's creating some very independent thinkers. And, you know, it's gonna ha. It's. We're to the point where it's not gonna happen. We have to think for ourselves. And also, let's just stop the war. Is there a peaceful alternative? How can those folks get along anymore?

[A]

Right? I don't want to sound like a hippie, but, like, Kids die every time these things happen. Right? That's all I ever think about. Kids. Little kids. Little kids that want to play with Legos, that have no idea why all the quote unquote grown ups are so mad at each other. You put any of these kids together from any country, and they'd all have the best time on the playground. They would dig holes, climb trees. They would get little sticks and shoot each other with guns, throw rocks at a window. Right?

[B]

Kids stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's silly, it's disgusting, and let's just put an end to it. Maybe Ken can help.

[A]

He can. He needs to make a new documentary. Why War Sucks Big Time. That's the name of it.

[B]

Joe, if you're listening, go ahead and get him on. Encourage that, Fund that.

[A]

Encourage it. Let's get it going. Let's get it started. The Civil War, dude. So every time I learn about that, it's. It was so brutal. What happened here during that time? So many people died, dude.

[B]

I think I had imagine what the.

[A]

Population of America would be if the Civil War didn't happen. Would it be like a billion people, do you think?

[B]

I guess. How many died? Like 110,000, I think.

[A]

Just Google it.

[B]

I think. It was so exponentially extrapolating.

[A]

Okay, hold on, let me just do this now. How many people died in the Civil War in the US and if they hadn't, based on today's date and the average reproduction. Reproduction rate, what would the population of the United States be? That's really the best shit to do with AI stuff. I swear to God. That's complicated math. All right, let's see. Yeah, I can't figure that out. That would take so many calculators. All right, let's see what it comes out with. Hold on. It's thinking. I'm using Grock 3, by the way. Using Grock 3 or Super Grock maybe. It's called. I don't know. I don't know how much better it is. All right, well, we got.

[B]

I better get another Zen here.

[A]

That's gonna be $2. $2.

[B]

I think they sponsored the pod now. So this is the open advertisement here.

[A]

Oh, hold on, keep talking. Because it didn't figure this out.

[B]

Another one of Ken Burns documentary that hit me hard was about the Great Depression. Those terrible farming practices that just scoured the land. Dust bowls ruling the country. Was it the Great Dust Bowl? Either way, it was.

[A]

Yeah. It's like the Grapes of Wrath book, right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Tough time.

[B]

That's what my family lived through.

[A]

Unbelievable. What did they Eat. What did anyone do? Just like dried up corn.

[B]

That was it. That's why that hard image in that book was a nursing mother feeding a starving guy from her breast.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

That's crazy. Yeah. That's the milk.

[B]

I'm not even that hungry. I'll take it a little bit.

[A]

I don't need a dust bowl. All right, let's see. Okay. All right. It's not answering this the right way. It just added the amount of people that died to the current population.

[B]

How many died?

[A]

748,000.

[B]

Oh, I was way off. That's huge.

[A]

That's huge.

[B]

Incredible. That's more than anybody has ever died in any ever war since. Probably times 10, it's saying.

[A]

So the US population would be 364.6 million compared to the current 345.4 million.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so an increase of 19.2 million. Okay, I guess that's right. I thought it might be way bigger, but I guess there was already a lot of people in the US Then.

[B]

War, bad. No, there wasn't that many.

[A]

I think that math's wrong. I don't trust it. Come on, Grock. I pay for you.

[B]

If there's any math nerds out there, please help us out.

[A]

Yeah, send us an email. Give us figure that out.

[B]

A little bit of grace.

[A]

We will give you $100 Visa gift card and a T shirt. A JRE T shirt.

[B]

I'll just type in later.

[A]

You're not getting it. Dude.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

You're not allowed. No, that's against the rules, okay? I can't be giving it to the team senior guy. That's rude. This has to be open to everybody. It's going to be a Chinese math nerd. He's going to figure it out. Well, Nihau, those guys are the best.

[B]

They are the best. Incredible Chinese immigrant population in the United States. Awesome people.

[A]

We're big fans. We're big fans.

[B]

Orange chicken. General Tao's. Come on, people.

[A]

Look, people really like this episode. They were pumped about it. I was reading the comments. They were all about it. Like, what was cool about it is people were like, oh, I need to check out more Ken Burns or I'm gonna go watch this documentary. And. And that's really great because he has such a fantastic backlog. And who knows, like, maybe the newer generation has just kind of missed a lot of those, right? Cause they didn't grow up with PBS or watch it as much. You know, they got YouTube and fucking Netflix and whatever. But to be able to go back and just go through it all and also have the patience to do it because it comes at you at a different rate. You gotta be patient with the knowledge.

[B]

The Vietnam War was 16, 10 hours or 16 hours.

[A]

Was it huge?

[B]

So that. That's a study. That's a scholarly study.

[A]

Yeah. That's like taking a class, and you.

[B]

End up with way more knowledge than it's a semester. Sure, if you absorb it.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's really cool. Can you just buy, like, the box sets of this stuff? Or.

[B]

I [e-mail] you can watch almost everything they have.

[A]

It's free.

[B]

Or pbs.org oh, yeah, of course. You don't want to go to the porn site.

[A]

No, no. Xxx Stay away from those.

[B]

It's a bit dry.

[A]

Get out of there.

[B]

Got him.

[A]

It's outrageous. Mmm. Well, look, I was a big fan of him. Really cool that Rogan had him on. And definitely worth re exploring, getting into some Ken Burns and just getting kind of up to date. I mean, one thing I will say, this guy loves America. He appreciates what it is. You know, it's none of that nonsense like, oh, America's the worst. I wish I could move to Canada. All right, relax. But he loves the place and really understands it. Knows what it has done, how it changed the world.

[B]

And we got a good thing going on here.

[A]

I love the guy.

[B]

Crazy experiment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of democracy.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

It's partially based on Native American history. So let's go, boys.

[A]

I couldn't be prouder. Well, thank you all for listening, as always. Pete, pleasure. Thanks for being here. And, yeah, check out the Camburns. It's worth it. We'll talk to you all next week. It.