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462 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Michael Button
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Will
You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience.
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Brandon Battic
View what a bizarre thing we've created.
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Adam Thorne
Now with your host Adam Thorne.
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Brandon Battic
This might either be the worst podcast.
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Adam Thorne
Or the best one of all time. One go.
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Brandon Battic
Enjoy the show. Welcome back to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. I am Brandon Battic and I am joined as always by Adam Thorne. And we are discussing episode 2368 with investigator of ancient history Michael Button. And I thought this was an awesome episode. It's really great to talk about ancient history and to learn some of the some of the elements of our past. And maybe we don't know everything about ancient humans. And Adam, it's always great to be talking to you about this stuff. How did you feel about this episode?
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Adam Thorne
Well, you know, we certainly don't know everything about our past that is for sure and should not be disputed. Now, does it mean that these new ideas that these individuals bring up are correct? No, and I don't think they think so either, but they're willing to ask the question. I do like that he missed the Button was in academia studying ancient civilizations and you know, liked a lot, believed a lot of what he was hearing. But there were just some issues with the timeline. He brings up an important point which, which really is hard to dispute. They found some bones. They were like 320,000 years old or something Homo sapiens. It added a third to the timeline. And we've also done that recently within the last 20 years, added another like it went from like a hundred thousand years to 200,000, which is a hundred percent jump. So saying that it's like, well, hold the phone here. I think it's clear that we can't really know for sure how far we go back. And now when you're dealing with a timeline that large, there could be pockets of 10,000 years where some incredible technologies bloomed and then got destroyed, right?
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Brandon Battic
100%. And it's insane that some of the things they found that connects to ancient humans were around 460,000 years ago, predating a lot of what we know. And I thought a great quote from, from this episode was that science advances one funeral at a time. Because that's what happens. People make these claims and they say this is how it is, and then they get debunked. But they hold on to their theories and their evidence because that's their whole legacy. So all these mysteries I think will, like, in the future we'll learn more about them and there will be explanations. But for now, I think we just gotta. We just gotta wait for people to die.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah.
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Brandon Battic
And then, and then figure more of this out, you know? Yeah, it's very true. It's crazy. It's crazy to think that. And it's something I haven't really thought about that Science is like so based in people's egos and like how they view their legacy and everything about them, you know, like their books. This is my work, this is what defines me. I can't have this become obsolete, you know?
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. It kind of makes you think that, you know, as we move into the future and AI is looking into ways to make us young forever, live forever, or now everyone's gonna live, I don't know, 130, 150 years. Does it mean that old ideas get stuck for longer? Because people get stubborn like that and then they get into that place of power and they just hold still on what they know. It's almost like, yeah, you want new politicians, you want younger politicians, you want these generations to move through and have new ideas and try something different. I mean, you know, I'm so different than my parents generation. There were so many elements where they're like, oh, that's just. That music's just racket. That's annoying. Turn that off. As I'm listening to like early 2000s trance or drum and bass or something that my parents hated. And it's then we get a new set of video games and they're like, you're all wasting your lives. And I'm like, yeah, but you wait till GTA 6, it's going to be dope. It's like things change. New generations have new ideas. They think in different ways. And other than just keeping the status quo, moving the all the powerful people, they're not bringing a lot of innovation to the table, it seems like.
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Brandon Battic
Not at all. Not at all. And if there's anything good that will come out of AI, it's the fact that it won't be like every new model, it's like this contradicts this. So I. I have to die on my. You know, it's all going to be fresh information, you know, forward and evolve it, and it's not going to hide anything. It's not going to contradict it. Like, it's all going to mess with and. And use new evidence and. And what's on the table, which I think is really exciting for the future when it comes to stuff like this.
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Adam Thorne
You know, it's not going to be stubborn.
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Brandon Battic
Right, Exactly. But some of the things that were discussed. Goblekli Tepe, I believe, is the ancient civilization that they found in Turkey, Gobekli Tepe, which is insane. Yeah, I believe it's. What was it?
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Adam Thorne
It's like 13 or 14,000 years old.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, it's 12,000 years old.
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Adam Thorne
Okay.
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Brandon Battic
It's like a few thousand years before the fucking Stone Age, which is insane. Or it's Stonehenge. Stonehenge. I think it's like maybe 5 or 10,000.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, it's way older than Stonehenge. It's insane because Stonehenge might be closer to us than go. Beckley Tepe is the Stonehenge. Think about that.
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Brandon Battic
That's so insane.
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Adam Thorne
Well, you know that they say that Cleopatra is closer to the invention of the iPhone than the building of the pyramids. And that's only the building date that we give it that it's entirely possible that those pyramids are way older. That kind of blows your mind when you start thinking of timelines like that. And the big thing that really hit me and what, you know, Button was saying is, like, there really wouldn't be anything left. So if 100,000 years ago there was just this period of time where it was nice and sunny, no asteroids were hitting the planet, there was no ice ages. Things could grow and flourish. And for 10 to 15,000 years, we were just on a roll. And then boom, something hit us all, knocked our civilization down to almost nothing.
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Brandon Battic
And.
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Adam Thorne
And then, you know, 80,000 years goes by. What could even survive? What could we have even made? You know, we like to think there would be stuff left, but unless that civilization spent a ton of time trying to preserve it, I mean, literally the only thing they could do is go put a, you know, a welcome box up on the moon. Everything else would just degrade.
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Brandon Battic
Right. And he was talking about how glass could potentially survive all these years, but by the time, you know, another civilization finds it, it's not gonna fucking look like anything. You know, so it's crazy to look at all this stuff and, yeah, like, glass. Also, the whole thing with the wheel, that's a whole other thing. I think that to your point about the moon, I think if anything, if humanity ever does, like a time capsule, it has to be on the moon, you know, and it's like, what do you even put there? I guess you can put, like, just things of, like, pop culture, but say, like, we die out and then another civilization finds us. You look at the, you know, SD cards, you look at all the, like, computers, like, what the fuck? How do you. How can you even figure out what the hell that even is?
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Adam Thorne
It would have to be something similar to what Carl Sagan team put together for the Voyager spacecraft. It's a solid gold vinyl that is full of animal sounds, human speaking. I think it has some kind of primary number stuff on it.
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Brandon Battic
You know, things got a Weezer album there.
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Adam Thorne
You know, if they were smart, they do that.
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Brandon Battic
But yeah, backwards. Just.
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Adam Thorne
Just some classics and it kind of makes sense, right? It's like even a slightly advanced civilization could probably figure out that that thing spins and then you just have a tiny piece of metal that reverberates. I mean, it was a good idea. It was a smart move. Obviously, you put any tapes up there, they degrade. I think that there's engravings on it, too, that have some meaning. It would have to be something similar to that. This podcast is brought to you by hims. HIMS can't solve snoring or blanket stealing, but when it comes to performance, they've got you covered. Take control of ED with personalized treatments made with proven ingredients prescribed by licensed providers 100% online. Through HIMS, you can access personalized prescription treatment options for ED, like Hard Mints and SexRx plus Climax Control. If prescribed, HIMS offers access to ED treatment options ranging from Hard Mints to trusted generics that cost 95% less than brand names if prescribed. To get simple online access to personalized affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit hims. That's hims.comjre for your free online, visit hims.comjre Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. Because, you know, math seems universal, at least in the. You know, if. If a civilization is advancing, right, and making any kind of technology they're measuring, they have to figure out some sort of Chemistry. And since the way those elements are put together, it's like they could probably communicate in, in a similar way or at least show that, look, we were smart. Are you smart too? Also, this is how we died, so watch out for that.
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Brandon Battic
Well, I also want to bring up the point of the possibility of ancient humans ended up becoming aliens like millions of years ago. It's an ancient civilization that evolved to the point where they created space travel and just left the planet. And then everything they left behind crumbled down, became nothing. And that's what UFOs are, the grays. People believe that we're going to evolve into something that looks like that, you know, big heads, big eyes, very skinny, small. So that's another possibility, and that's something that people definitely believe in. Well, also, the whole idea of like genetic engineering of us, it's crazy. There's a lot of like, possibilities of like and like, this even goes into the pyramids as well.
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Adam Thorne
Well, do you think about it in terms of timeline? 300,000 years gives you a lot to play with. It means that potentially a large civilization that is technologically advanced, not like ours today, but in its own way could exist, survive for a time, and then be destroyed. And that can happen within that short gap. Now let's look at the whole timeline of the planet. We're talking 160 million years ago, there was like the T. Rex. And then whenever that asteroid came, I don't know, 150 million years ago, wiped out most of the life. Now we have 150 million years to work with. Just take 1 million years out of that whole group and some lizard organism just evolves into something that is not like us, but can think and make technology and then either blows itself up or decides to leave the planet. And then millions of years pass like there would be nothing left. Now obviously, that seems like an absurd story. It would make a great sci fi movie if it was done well. But with that timeline, it's like, yeah, it could look at what we've done in 10,000 years, or really even three. It's a huge amount. So you give something a million years to do something. What are they at the end of that? They're half cyborg, supercomputer, AI, quantum computing, interdimensional time travelers.
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Brandon Battic
Right, exactly. And you look at our past and there were points where there wasn't a ton of humans. You know, I believe there was like a volcano that almost made us extinct. Like there was like 2,000 of us left. And it's like, yeah.
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Adam Thorne
Randall Carlson has he has some sort of story like that? I don't know if it was like, Ice age stuff or something. Like something.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah.
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Adam Thorne
Really knocked us down. Yeah.
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Brandon Battic
Right. But it makes you think, like, you know, what if that's happened to another intelligent species? Yeah. Also, we find dinosaur remains all the time. We discover new species, new, ancient, extinct species all the time, you know?
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, yeah. But also, look at it this way. Let's say that the really smart civilization got wiped out. There was a famine, there was a disease, there was something that came. I mean, we already saw this happen in South America with the Aztecs. Once the Spanish got over there, it just wiped everybody out. 90% of them dead by smallpox. So not impossible that could happen at a different time to another civilization. Especially if they were all tightly packed in together and sharing resources, and then they're gone. So there's these incredible structures left and all these nomadic tribes everywhere else in the planet that maybe some of them migrate into this area where it's like, oh, what are these pyramids? What are these crazy buildings? Well, they don't know how any of that works. How long before they just mess with them for a bit. You know, it's like we. We don't need many generations of gaps in our written intelligence for us to basically be cave people again.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, yeah. It's. It's really like. It's that quote where it's like, you know, if there's a World War three, World War four is going to be fought with, like, sticks and stones.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah.
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Brandon Battic
You know, where it's like, we can. We can go right back to the Stone Age. You know, it is possible. Now you look at Go Black Lake, Tempe, and it's so interesting because scientists believe that we were, like, just hunter gathers. Like, there was no way we can do anything close to something like that.
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Adam Thorne
Yep.
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Brandon Battic
But, like, it changes everything. It really does. Because why was that created? You know, is it the first civilization ever? Why. Why did. Why was there this many people living together? Because we were, like, just kind of like little tribes in caves. We were doing wall art and everything. A lot of people believe that it was like, a religious thing.
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Adam Thorne
Yep.
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Brandon Battic
Because there were like. There's evidence of, like, sacrifices. And then what they did is they opened it up to the public. So they. They dug more around the site to build this, like, canopy over it. And doing more digging, they found, like, almost these homes that were built. So it's like, shit. People were, like, living around here.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah.
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Brandon Battic
And it's crazy to think that and potentially religion Is what sparked our desire to become a civilization to all, like, you know, center around, like, one thing.
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Adam Thorne
Well, there's some interesting things going on with the site, too, now. It's like somebody owns it, or there's like a. Some kind of control going on where they're not excavating much of it anymore, and they've just kind of put a hold on it. And I don't know all the politics around that, but something there is a little suspicious. But exactly, like, going back to that, it's like, all right, we say that's the oldest thing we found, period. Right. That's the oldest thing we found. However, it's not like it was a piece of crap. It's really well made. It's, like, beautifully constructed. So they've obviously practiced. Right. They didn't come up with this in one generation. That kind of stonework needs to be taught over a long time. And there had to have been stuff before. It's like, the pyramids are amazing, and they're super old. They weren't the first freaking giant thing that we built. No chance. We built some really crummy pyramids before. We had to learn a lot about what makes them work before we get the ones that we have now that have just lasted, you know, for thousands of years.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah. Like, scientists believed that we were just, like, killing, fucking, and eating, and that was it at this time. These pillars are, like, 20 tons each.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. It's not that.
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Brandon Battic
That's nothing a couple monkeys could do.
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Adam Thorne
No.
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Brandon Battic
Like, this is real shit.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. These aren't hunter gatherings.
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Brandon Battic
Writes a lot of history. Yeah.
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Adam Thorne
These are people that had specialized skills. You know, they had a diversity of responsibilities. Some people were obviously getting the food. Some people were probably growing the food. Some people were creating, you know, the ability for these stone workers to probably work full time on this thing more than likely. I mean, you could say they were chipping away at it in the evening, but that would be multiple lifetimes. It's just like, it doesn't really work.
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Brandon Battic
Exactly, exactly. And to think, like, you know, the species was that intelligent, where they're like, all right, let's just, like, continue this over generations. Like, let's just. Like that we were apparently. We were supposed to be crazy. Like, it was. It was so. We were so feral and dangerous. There's no way we would, like, have traditions. Like. Like, when it comes to, like, you know, like, building structures of, like, let's just carry this. Every generation could work on it a little more. Like, we. We never. We were like, from what I've been taught in school at least, which is like animals, you know, we were just hunting shit. We were just like killing each other. Like there was like. It was just very feral and ape like.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, we had.
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Brandon Battic
Apparently not.
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Adam Thorne
We had clubs.
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Brandon Battic
Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.
- [21:25]
Will
Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.
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Brandon Battic
That's not the itinerary we're following.
- [21:35]
Will
Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.
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Brandon Battic
Bon voyage.
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Adam Thorne
We had, we had like the little kind of bear pants thing, kilt. And then we went ooga booga and we lived in caves and we went.
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Brandon Battic
On the headsee leopard togas, you know.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, they look hot. It's like very Flintstones. And I'm just like, I'm not buying it. I mean, I might buy that 100,000 years ago, maybe a bit longer. I, I don't know. I'd be surprised. I, I wouldn't be surprised if we had even quite developed language a very long time ago. Which really opens you up to. I mean, because there's a lot of things that you. We're trying to tell each other. I don't think it would take that long to make enough noises to where you're really able to develop something complicated. Maybe not maybe if it's like everyone's born with just grunting noises. You know, these, like, areas of our brain that develop with language just don't kind of expand. They're not like fed to, you know, they have found that with those like, feral children that kind of grew up in the woods or whatever or raised by wolves, like these random stories throughout history, if they don't learn language like the way we speak it, or most places do by a certain age, those areas of the brain don't develop. You can then.
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Brandon Battic
Really?
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, you can teach them individual words later in life, but they can't really put sentences together. It's, it's like there's, there's a, a period of time where you have to learn certain things to develop it fully in the future.
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Brandon Battic
Interesting. Now you know, talking about Gobekli Tepe, which I feel like I've pronounced three different times.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah, you're getting better. You're getting better though.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, over time, you know, I'll figure it out. Astronomer. No, we're not doing.
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Adam Thorne
Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.
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Brandon Battic
The pyramids, that's a whole nother thing of like fucking massive structures. It's stuff we've been studying forever. We don't. We still have no fucking clue. Apparently they're tombs. But there's evidence that like, you know these big ass fucking things for like a tomb.
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Adam Thorne
Well, you know, if they didn't find a body in it though, how. Right, sure. It's a, there is like a coffin structure thing in there, but it's empty. So what do they say? That it was just raided. That's why there's nothing left.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, and there's like, I think, I mean that's possible how? Like, maybe there's even other ancient civilizations who like also came across. It was like, let's just fuck with it, you know? And like that's why there might be some of these like carvings in it. It's where it's like. Yeah, it's like, you know, 5,000 years later some like tribe came across and it's like, let's just with it, you know. And this is for all the ancient structures. But with the pyramids, like, you can't miss those, you know, it makes sense that they were like raided or something happened. Yeah, but there's, there's evidence that like, you know. Well, maybe not evidence, I should say theories that like, it was like an anti gravity thing. It was a power plant. It's like a base of lost tech that exists. The pyramids were used for farming. That's another one I've seen. So there's many things. It also could have just been totally a propaganda thing of a king going, look at this shit I made. I had all these people make this shit. Look how good I am. You'll never see anything like this again. This is my power. So it could be that because that's a classic ancient ruler and current modern ruler thing of like, let's just build big, it really is and like show off to people. So that's another possibility.
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Adam Thorne
But usually it's just like a statue.
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Brandon Battic
Right.
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Adam Thorne
You know, I mean, this is monumental and very old. You know, you would have just thought that somebody more modern would have also done something similar. If it was it. Was it like, oh, we can't do it now, or no one was ever that powerful again. I don't believe that could be true. It's like, how would people get less powerful? You would imagine there would just be bigger structures, but we haven't built any even close.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, and they can't last. You know, like, even.
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Adam Thorne
I think even no building was bigger than. Taller than the pyramids until they made, I think, like, the Eiffel Tower, dude. Like, how did that take us, like, 4,000 years?
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Brandon Battic
Exactly, exactly. And that's like a frame, you know, that's not like this big complex. It's not like you. I guess you could, like, you know.
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Adam Thorne
It'S more of a scaffold.
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Brandon Battic
Exactly, exactly.
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Adam Thorne
It would fall down in 50 years if nobody maintained that.
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Brandon Battic
Right. Where the pyramid. It's like, you know, even what. What Michael was talking about on the episode where it's like, new York's gone in a hundred thousand years. Nothing left. Nothing. Not fucking nothing left.
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Adam Thorne
Nothing. Not even one brick on top of another brick.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah. And even today, like, neighborhoods and everything, you got trees growing through the fucking sidewalk. Like, even shit that's maintained today, it's like a constant battle between nature.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah.
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Brandon Battic
Goes to show if we're gone, it's like where there's. The traces are going away almost entirely.
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Adam Thorne
What Joe brings us up just in Detroit, I mean, once the. The. All the car factories and the automotive stuff shut down, that people moved out of there, the car. The houses were just kind of left, you know, there's like trees growing through. That's. That's like 40 years, 50 years, 60 years. Nothing.
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Brandon Battic
Now. Now, what do you think about this? The. The like, wheel that was found in Russia, allegedly from 300 million years ago?
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Adam Thorne
Wait, what? Oh, because it's like in that rock.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, in the rock there was. It look, it looks exactly like a wagon wheel.
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Adam Thorne
Let me pull it up.
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Brandon Battic
It looks exactly like a wagon wheel. They talk about it, and it was in a coal mine 900 meters underground. It's from 300 million years ago. And it. It like I'm looking at this thing right now, and people are like, yeah, it could be like a natural, you know, and things like will have a natural formation. And it looks like, you know, a cell phone or it looks like this or whatever. That looks like. Like that's A perfect circle.
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Adam Thorne
It looks like a chariot wheel.
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Brandon Battic
Yeah, yeah.
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Adam Thorne
Like frozen in the center.
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Brandon Battic
So here's what's fucked up. It's from 300 million years ago.
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Adam Thorne
Lizard, dinosaur wheel. What are they?
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Brandon Battic
Lizard people, like the king lizard guy.
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Adam Thorne
They were only lizards back then. I don't even think they had mammals 300 million years ago.
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Brandon Battic
A couple crustaceans, I guess.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. Some fish.
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Brandon Battic
But king. Yeah, king lobster thing. But it's crazy to think like in maybe if there's like another civilization like.
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Adam Thorne
Mammals appeared 225 million years ago. So yeah, there were no mammals then.
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Brandon Battic
And that's too like this is three.
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Adam Thorne
That was like a mouse.
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Brandon Battic
It's like some 300 million.
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. What do you make of this? I mean, is it just something that we're like, oh, we just got to throw that out because it's gonna completely fuck up our timeline.
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Brandon Battic
It's something where it's like, let's just, let's just put a fucking. Like let's just put a bookmark on it. Let's just put attack in it. It is very circle back in a few years because like did they ever dig it up?
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Adam Thorne
Is it just a fossil of something then?
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Brandon Battic
I. I don't think they ever dug it up because it's also like it's 900 meters underground and it's like on the fucking ceiling of the mine. So. Yeah, I feel like there's not enough amount of money that would have to go into like getting that. Cuz. Cuz you have to. You want to preserve the whole thing, you know?
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Adam Thorne
Yeah. You don't want to fuck it up before we got some better technology for sure.
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Brandon Battic
And that's gonna, that's gonna be a lot. But like imagine the like if they're like holy fuck, this is like petrified wood.
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Adam Thorne
Imagine they just dig the other sides. Just connected to a car and we're like, oh no.
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Brandon Battic
Or what if it's. What if it's metal? What if it. What if we're maybe not even a metal but like something not from this world?
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Adam Thorne
Oh yeah, like a super cool alloy.
- [31:30]
Brandon Battic
Like a drone or something. You know how we were talking about how you know we're possibly going to send a drone to a planet that seems to have water and it's just going to crash there, but we're just going to send it there so it can take a picture. What if it's the reverse thing? Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.
- [31:51]
Will
Honestly Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did Switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.
- [31:59]
Brandon Battic
That's not the itinerary we're following.
- [32:01]
Will
Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.
- [32:15]
Brandon Battic
Bon voyage.
- [32:17]
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- [32:43]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, where it's an alien race that sent a thing here, took a picture and just crashed. And here it is. And it looks like a wagon, but it's like, it just doesn't look natural. It's like the perfect circle. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy to think that like, what if we go extinct and like you know, 400 million years there's like turtle people or whatever and they're you know, 900 meters underground and they find like a, like a la Boo boo or whatever. You know, it's crazy to think like that if there was an ancient civilization, like this is all that's left. Like imagine it. So, so let's pretend like this is a real. This was an actual wagon wheel.
- [33:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
- [33:31]
Brandon Battic
From like this lot, this million, many million years ago. It's like, isn't it insane that this is all that exists?
- [33:39]
Adam Thorne
Dude, I think that even that is a miracle. That's so long ago. Nothing should exist. But it also kind of brings up a question that supports modern archeology which is like, well, if that can exist for that long, why haven't we found any other shit from half a million years ago from humans? It's like, ah, good point. Now that is true. Now what it. So we're either dismissed this and that or we say there could be something here. Since this survived. Where's the rest of the technology? You know, it's just like anything alien related, dude. It's like we got these little pieces and nothing is all that definitive now.
- [34:27]
Brandon Battic
I don't know, to make you go crazy, you know, it's. It's enough to make you like question fucking everything even. So this was another point brought up a wooden structure found 460,000 a hundred thousand years ago, which predates Homo sapiens. And the only reason why it was preserved is, was because it was in a bog. They found it in a bog?
- [34:55]
Adam Thorne
Oh yeah.
- [34:55]
Brandon Battic
And it's like, and it's like a tool, but it's, it's like, it's not just a couple sticks. It was like carved out to like Lincoln Logs where it would like perfectly connect.
- [35:06]
Adam Thorne
Oh no.
- [35:06]
Brandon Battic
And it's insane.
- [35:09]
Adam Thorne
Was it like a hammer?
- [35:10]
Brandon Battic
Like I, I guess something like that. I don't think it was like from what I saw, I couldn't really tell. It could have been a hammer, some kind of shovel, but digging tools, something to, something to farm with. But again like they talk about just completely throws a wrench in everything we know. It's like, do we need to burn the fucking history books on ancient civilizations? Because looking at this shit, it's like, I don't know.
- [35:39]
Adam Thorne
Well, here's the thing. Like when I first started studying biology in college was like 2004. They've literally found I think two new entire kingdoms evolutionary life since then that they've added. So it's less about burning the book but being open to change it. You know, it's okay that we don't know all the answers. We shouldn't. It's also okay that the academic professionals that are top of their field hold onto ideas. You know, there's something about that because you, you don't want to be completely changing ideas instantly just because you found a 300 million year old looking wheel that might turn out to just be some weird crystal formation. You know, it's like we got to take our time with it, we got to investigate it, you know, but be open to adjusting. I mean a half a million year old tool, that's a big deal. That suggests a lot of things because it's not a one off for sure, for sure.
- [36:45]
Brandon Battic
And you're right, you're 100% right. But it's also like, it's like holy. Did Neanderthals have like complex societies?
- [36:53]
Adam Thorne
Maybe.
- [36:54]
Brandon Battic
Like what did they like, why not? We think they're just like monkeys. They're just animals and they just like hunt in packs and they, they've had spears.
- [37:05]
Adam Thorne
They cool as hell, dude. They're probably cool as hell hanging out.
- [37:08]
Brandon Battic
With, who knows, Maybe they were like.
- [37:10]
Adam Thorne
The old to their own frat boys.
- [37:15]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, you never know at this, at.
- [37:16]
Adam Thorne
This point all the Homo sapien women were just like wanting to bang him all the time. And the Homo sapien men were like, we need to get rid of these Neanderthals. They're too cool. The strong.
- [37:29]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, yeah. The freaky fucking Neanderthals.
- [37:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. They can just. Just do backflips, like, whenever they want to. You're like, God, those guys are awesome.
- [37:39]
Brandon Battic
They got skateboards, they're streaming on Twitch, you know, it's like. But it's also like, what if we just. What if, like, they didn't go extinct? What if we just inner bread that.
- [37:50]
Adam Thorne
That's what it looks like we did.
- [37:51]
Brandon Battic
Because we just completely inner bred. Because, like, look at. Look at, like, even look at Rogan, you know, 40. I feel like he's got. He's got some traits of both sides.
- [38:01]
Adam Thorne
He's probably high on the Neanderthal. And that's no disrespect to him, but you've seen him with those.
- [38:07]
Brandon Battic
Not at all.
- [38:07]
Adam Thorne
You've seen him hammering those kettlebells.
- [38:10]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, that's. That's pure. Yeah.
- [38:14]
Adam Thorne
Strong, short testosterone, stocky fella, which is, you know, strong forehead. That's how you would describe him.
- [38:23]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, that's. That's the bill that invents fire.
- [38:25]
Adam Thorne
You know, I think that's how they modeled the Klingons. Honestly. That's how they came up with the Klingons. They were like, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna. That's why they're so strong.
- [38:37]
Brandon Battic
Yeah. Yeah, man. But it's just. It's. It's cool stuff. And I just really love a lot of the, like, contradictions in ancient history that, like, this guy brings up. And like, lastly, that's talked about on here is like the mummy scans.
- [38:59]
Adam Thorne
The.
- [39:00]
Brandon Battic
The scan of a mummy that has three fingers, three toes, a head that's really deformed. And in history, people have found ways, especially in Egypt, to morph their skulls and extend them and everything, squish them. But this is like a natural, like, the three fingers. It's not like you look at it and you go, oh, they cut some fingers off. Like, this is a hand structure that is not human whatsoever.
- [39:31]
Adam Thorne
Mm.
- [39:32]
Brandon Battic
They have, like an extra ligament, I believe, in their fingers, like an extra. Like an extra bend.
- [39:40]
Adam Thorne
Huh. Did they take.
- [39:42]
Brandon Battic
It's.
- [39:44]
Adam Thorne
Did they get DNA from this thing, See what it is?
- [39:47]
Brandon Battic
No, this. This guy has it. And it's. It's one of those things where it's like, this guy has it. He's done. All they've done is do scans of it, and it's like. Yeah, and. And the scans are Impressive because it's like, you see the ligaments and everything, and it's like, that's something where, like, if someone was going to fake this, they would have to invest a lot of money. Like, they're. They're going to put a lot of money into this hoax. But, you know, who knows? It could turn out to be cake or some, you know.
- [40:19]
Adam Thorne
Well, you know, I. Listen, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if an alien race did come down during the time of, like, the Egyptians or in another ancient civilization and was like, here's a bit of technology. Also, we're gonna leave this guy. He's gonna be your king for a while. He's gonna kind of clean stuff up because you guys aren't really great at running stuff. And then you'll bury him and put him in a, you know, a big mausoleum or something. And then we just move on from there. And it's like, they're ancient people. Why would they not? And how would they even pass that story down to us? It'd be almost impossible. It would turn into a weird religious story before you know it, and then it just kind of like disappears into the mess.
- [41:09]
Brandon Battic
Yeah. And I feel like if that was to happen, if an alien comes down to ancient Egypt and is like, yo, I'm gonna, like, hang out for a little bit. That's cool. There would be an entire religion based off that shit immediately. Immediately. We should probably. A God is here. Probably our God is here.
- [41:30]
Adam Thorne
He's a sun God. We call him Mirage. We give him a weird, like, head shape. He's way taller than everyone else. And we draw him on this building a bunch of times. And then in the future they look at it and be like, oh, that probably doesn't mean anything.
- [41:46]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if he would, like, abuse his power and get me all this shit. Like, if I was. If I just showed up on another planet and everyone's like, you're God, I'd be like, you know, get me a fucking, you know, roll this shit. Roll these joints.
- [42:02]
Adam Thorne
Smash.
- [42:03]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, get me a smash burger. Set up this PS2.
- [42:06]
Adam Thorne
We're going to build it in and out, Right?
- [42:09]
Brandon Battic
Exactly. And. And it's like, I feel like maybe an alien would have, like, showed up and was like, oh, sure, it. I'll be your God. Whatever. I don't care. But that's the thing. Like, I feel like if this happened, there would be a lot more to it. There would be a lot more like, you know, statues. Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.
- [42:36]
Will
Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.
- [42:43]
Brandon Battic
That's not the itinerary we're following.
- [42:46]
Will
Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.
- [42:59]
Brandon Battic
Bon voyage.
- [43:01]
T-Mobile Advertiser
Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost Will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card. Typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16, 128 gigabyte $829.99 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact T Mobile this summer.
- [43:28]
Will
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- [44:06]
Brandon Battic
I feel like they would center their whole society around a being like this. It wouldn't just be like, oh, this little fucking guy we found in a tomb somewhere, you know, in like a gutter, I guess was an alien that lived amongst the people. Right.
- [44:21]
Adam Thorne
So you don't believe in it. You're not buying it. That's what I'm hearing.
- [44:23]
Brandon Battic
I. I don't think I'm buying it because it's reasonable. Like, if they found this thing, it would be like something that I would imagine would be like either at the top of the pyramid or the bottom. Like, it would center around the pyramid. This. This being. This is not just a thing that you bury in the backyard like a dog, you know, like, this is an alien.
- [44:46]
Adam Thorne
Mm.
- [44:48]
Brandon Battic
And like we're talking about, this would be a God in ancient times. They're not just gonna fucking, you know, just put it in tomb B12. Like, they're not. They're gonna fucking. They're gonna pro. They're gonna center their whole shit around it.
- [45:07]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, no doubt. It's Just so hard to know. I mean, if it was happening all the time back then, then maybe it just becomes normalized and it's like, yep, just bury another one of those alien kings. There we go.
- [45:21]
Brandon Battic
Yeah, it's like we're getting too many of these at this point. We gotta. We gotta figure out how to mass store these. Now. I just want to bring up. That was. It was brought up in this podcast for a second, but the quantum computer that went one second back in time, what do you even make out of that?
- [45:41]
Adam Thorne
I don't even know where to begin. How do they know it did. That's what I'm saying.
- [45:46]
Brandon Battic
Like, how do you. Like the computer was like, yo, I just went back in time. Like, how. How do you. How do you rate? How do you scale that?
- [45:56]
Adam Thorne
I mean, one second is not a lot, but I feel like if a computer did, it should immediately start trading.
- [46:03]
Brandon Battic
Stocks.
- [46:05]
Adam Thorne
Because one second might be enough to make a big difference. I don't know what else you can do in one second, but.
- [46:12]
Brandon Battic
All right, I have a new pitch. I got a new pitch. You know how your buddy has the thing where it's like a website that tracks Nancy Pelosi's stocks? We make one that. That tracks the quantum computer stocks.
- [46:26]
Adam Thorne
Nice.
- [46:26]
Brandon Battic
And I think that's what we do because if this thing's going back in time, it's probably going to be able to go forward and it's going to know all the stocks and whatever it invests in. I think we got to follow that shit. I think for the future, when that computer becomes an AI and it's doing all this fucking time traveling, that's where I'm putting my stocks into.
- [46:47]
Adam Thorne
That's got to be it. Yeah. Time traveling, quantum computer, AI, mummies, mummy.
- [46:53]
Brandon Battic
Aliens, ancient civilizations, wagon wheels.
- [46:58]
Adam Thorne
I do hope, though, with all this fun conversations, that there is some definitive conclusion of at least a few parts of this within my lifetime. I mean, finding aliens would be dope. I feel like we're close. I feel like a computer AI that's smarter than us is likely to happen in our lifetime. That'd be wild. I mean, we basically made another.
- [47:23]
Brandon Battic
Well, it technically still exists, like, whatever your definition of smarter is, because, like, that's. Even ChatGPT is like super smart. Yeah. Very smart.
- [47:34]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, it's super smart. It could out thank me any day.
- [47:38]
Brandon Battic
Could beat me at, you know, an sat.
- [47:40]
Adam Thorne
Well. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really even know how they are deciding if something is smart. It's like, how is this not smarter than us already? Maybe it doesn't have like elements of like imagination or critical thinking or whatever.
- [47:55]
Brandon Battic
But, but then what is your definition of intelligence? If it's just like, yeah, literally knows.
- [48:02]
Adam Thorne
A bad fact in the world, it's pretty smart.
- [48:06]
Brandon Battic
Yeah. But also is intelligence how you like perceive reality and the world around you? It's. I don't know, I, I think it's fucked if, if it's, in 10 years we got time traveling AI and aliens running around.
- [48:24]
Adam Thorne
I don't know, I'm just like, make stuff better for everyone then, you know, can we get back to the point where we can buy a house and you know, everyone doesn't feel broke all the time. Like, you know, get some health care going, let's do some of that stuff. I think it's gonna be a clear path to if we're doing it well or if we're just, I don't know, continuing to it up.
- [48:50]
Brandon Battic
But what if we get to the point where AI is so intelligent, where we can just rely on that for government, which is crazy and so dangerous. And this is getting, getting in like Skynet territory here. But like, because like an AI, like let's look at AI in 10 years. It's good. Like the, the ship we have now is going to be Neanderthals compared to the AI in 10 years. Oh sure, they're going to be able to like be like, okay, this is the country, this is society. We've, we've studied history, we know everything that works. So it doesn't. We, we understand the economy, we know everything that's happening right now. Let's, here's, here's my idea. And this is how you fix it. Now what would be interesting, if there's a guy who pretty much studies AIs like tactics with, with government in the world and how to make things affordable and how to like get the economy moving and just like study it and implement it himself. If there's someone who's like the messenger of AI, like the guy who like sits down as like the president or whatever and goes, okay, this is what our AI gods are telling us we should do, so let's do it. All they need is like, you know, maybe like 5,000 sacrifices done. Throw them on the pyramid. They were like, oh fuck, are we just doing it again?
- [50:09]
Adam Thorne
We're doing that again. I guess we're doing it, guys.
- [50:11]
Brandon Battic
Yeah.
- [50:12]
Adam Thorne
All right, everyone pick a straw.
- [50:14]
Brandon Battic
That, that's what that pyramid was. It was a big AI computer.
- [50:17]
Adam Thorne
But no doubt, well, that's what that would answer why you would need A shitload of power and what it could do. Because they need a lot of power. I mean. Yeah. I would like to think that if it was. It was smart enough to not destroy itself. So, like, to find out what went on there. Yeah.
- [50:36]
Brandon Battic
I really hope. Honestly, I'm a little pessimistic on finding out what. That the pyramids are even for at this point, like, in my lifetime. I'm hoping. These 3D scans, I think, are a good step in the right direction.
- [50:52]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, we gotta do more of those.
- [50:53]
Brandon Battic
We just gotta get people in there and just do a full, like, you know, Indiana Jones thing and just get people in there, figure it out. Get some crystal skulls, find some cool artifacts. Get the. The. The Bazuzo thing from Exorcist Exodus. No, what is it? The Exorcist. That. That thing. But who knows what's in the, like, the depths of the pyramid.
- [51:19]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, we gotta get down there. Somebody needs to walk down that, like, spiral thing.
- [51:23]
Brandon Battic
Yeah.
- [51:24]
Adam Thorne
And who knows? Maybe there's just like a letter at the bottom that's like, oh, yeah. So we were here forever. You found the prize. Well done. We're super old. Here's the story. Take it back up there. Good luck. And then there's some cool instructions on how to build some stuff that would be dope.
- [51:42]
Brandon Battic
We get down there and I feel like we'll. It'll just be like. It'll be like Flint Dibble or something.
- [51:50]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, yeah. It's Ashton Kutcher and it's just an episode of Punk. Yeah. And you're like that. This is elaborate. This is elaborate. But I think the show is back.
- [52:00]
Brandon Battic
I like it. That. That's who I was thinking of. Who? That. That's the guy I was thinking about this whole podcast. Flint Dibble. Oh, I believe that's his name. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's like. Who just talks about Rogan and he's like, my. My theories are accurate and he doesn't know what the. He's talking about. I'm living rent free in his head. I'm like, he must be fucking, you know, shaking watching this.
- [52:26]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. He didn't represent himself great when he came on and.
- [52:31]
Brandon Battic
No.
- [52:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. I don't know what that's done for him moving forward. But it's probably. I don't know, probably a bunch of archaeologists got his back, got behind him on it. And there's. There's just this whole, like, cycle of. Of haters and whatever. I mean, they're gonna. But that's. If you put yourself in that category, I promise it won't work out that great for you.
- [52:58]
Brandon Battic
Maybe that's what's so interesting about this field because there's so much debate. Yeah. And the things they're debating are like so vastly different and really rewrite history. And it makes you think, fuck, what is the answer? Like? And it's crazy to think, like, the answer could be none of the theories. No one could be right.
- [53:18]
Adam Thorne
Oh yeah, could be.
- [53:19]
Brandon Battic
Well, I don't know. Maybe if, if there's another, like, investigator of ancient history, we can have Flint Dibble on the podcast.
- [53:25]
Adam Thorne
Let's get him on. Let's get him on. I think he'd be a great.
- [53:28]
Brandon Battic
And get his perspective as well.
- [53:30]
Adam Thorne
Well, look, I like, I like Michael Barton. I want to check out more of his stuff. I love this rapid growth. Like, obviously he's picking up a lot of steam online and with his YouTube channel and probably for good reason. I think it opens up a lot of interesting questions. And the more of these people get together, make a lot of money making YouTube and work together, maybe, you know, that opens up some really cool investigations where we can kind of start to get to the bottom and some of these less investigated theories. I think there's something to it. And yeah, I'm looking forward to him being on again.
- [54:11]
Brandon Battic
Me too. And I'm excited for the future in discovering ancient history and what it tells us about our past.
- [54:20]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. Send someone down and figure that wheel out. Get down there. Did they block that thing up? Can we get back in there?
- [54:28]
Brandon Battic
It's in Russia. It's 900 meters underground. I say we take some edibles and figure it out ourselves.
- [54:36]
Adam Thorne
It might be the only way. Yeah, that's real science. All right, buddy. Well, thank you so much and everyone listening. We appreciate you as always and we will talk to you next time. Cheers.
- [54:47]
Brandon Battic
See ya.
- [54:55]
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