Joe Rogan Experience Review — Ep. 470 Review of Rick Strassman
Podcast: Joe Rogan Experience Review
Episode: 470 — Review of Rick Strassman’s JRE Appearance
Date: October 12, 2025
Hosts: Adam Thorne & Peter
Overview
In this episode, Adam Thorne and Peter dive deep into the Joe Rogan Experience episode featuring Dr. Rick Strassman, renowned for his pioneering research on DMT and for authoring "The Spirit Molecule." They discuss Strassman’s new memoir, the ongoing renaissance of psychedelic research, spiritual experiences, the therapeutical potential (and limitations) of psychedelics, the mysterious world of DMT-induced visions—including machine elves and biblical lore—and speculate on the future intersection of psychedelics, AI, and human consciousness.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Rick Strassman’s Psychedelic Research Legacy
- Background:
Strassman is a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico and led the first FDA-approved human studies on DMT in the 1990s.
“He’s basically the pioneer in psychedelic research...best known for leading the first FDA approved human studies on DMT in the 90s. Crazy.”
(Adam Thorne, 02:54) - How He Got Approval:
Strassman told authorities he wanted to prove DMT was dangerous, aligning with prevailing anti-drug policies in order to conduct his studies.
“He snuck it in the back door, kind of.”
(Rick Strassman, 03:48) - New Memoir:
His new book, My Altered States, weaves trauma, consciousness, psychedelics, and biblical mysticism.
Strassman even learned ancient Hebrew to explore biblical roots—“Dedication to your craft.” (Adam, 05:01)
Trauma, Psychedelic Therapy & Healing
- Current Trends:
Psychedelics like psilocybin, ketamine, and MDMA are showing promise treating addiction, depression, PTSD, and trauma.
“They’re finding fantastic results for people with addiction, depression, PTSD, major traumas.”
(Adam, 06:52) - Limitation of Traditional Therapy:
Psychedelics can strip away ego, making one confront emotions without denial—contrasting with talk therapy where patients might “say all the right things to the therapist…and become like, agreeable.”
(Adam, 07:21) - Therapeutic Potential:
“There might be more of a cure with the psychedelic stuff…”
(Rick, 08:17) But Adam questions if dramatic changes are illusory:
“Maybe there’s more of an illusion of a cure or a difference than there actually is?”
(Rick, 16:46)
The Mystery and Ubiquity of DMT
- Found Throughout Nature:
DMT is found in human bodies, plants, and various mammals.
“It’s ubiquitous too, that the DMT molecules are across the whole planet in different plants.”
(Rick, 09:10) - Production in the Body:
Discussion on pineal gland, liver, and stomach as possible sources in mammals.
“Let’s get Strassman on this.”
(Rick, 09:33) - Not a Novelty:
DMT is a naturally occurring compound, not synthetic like LSD.
(Adam, 09:46)
Ayahuasca and Traditional Use
- Experiential Accounts:
Adam recounts an interview with someone who underwent an ayahuasca retreat, describing layered processes (mushrooms, fasting, ayahuasca) and unclassifiable, mind-bending visions:
“Some of the visions were really interesting…something that would be new…kind of very visceral hallucinations almost, or visions.”
(Adam, 13:35) - Integration and Lasting Change:
Hosts debate whether psychedelic breakthroughs lead to lasting changes, or if results fade:
“Is this just a very fleeting thing, like holding a snowflake and then it just melts away and it’s all gone?”
(Adam, 15:26) - Cultural Differences:
Adam expresses respect for indigenous shamans’ generations of expertise versus newer clinical approaches.
“Not to say the clinicians up here...don’t know what they’re doing…but they don’t have, like, generational experience with it, probably.”
(Adam, 11:38)
The Spectrum of Psychedelics & Their Effects
- Mescaline & Peyote:
Talk about the Native American Church’s use of peyote (mescaline) for addiction and “deserty vibes.”
“More rattlesnake hallucinations. Yeah. More deserty vibes.”
(Adam & Rick, 17:58) - Comparison of Substances:
Each has unique effects; you can’t analogize mushrooms, DMT, alcohol, or marijuana to one another.
(Adam, 12:53)
Revisiting "The Spirit Molecule" Research
- DMT Doses and Experiments:
Strassman's studies involved large IV doses, sending volunteers into “hyperspace” for an hour or more, which current standards wouldn’t allow.
“I don’t know how long those trips. I think they were like over an hour, though.”
(Adam, 22:39) - Patterns in Hallucinations:
Subjects returned with “overlapping stories…types of things that shouldn’t be able to line up,” which unsettled Strassman.
(Adam, 23:21) - Laser Experiment/Perception Theories:
Anecdotes about DMT tuning perception to a “universal field”—looking at refracted laser light while on DMT, people report seeing “characters and letters…like actually seeing into the Matrix.”
(Adam, 25:19) "Can anyone make anything of it? Is it just tripping?" (Adam, 26:45)
The Unrecordability of Psychedelic Experience
- Challenge of Documentation:
Experiences can't be reliably recorded or relayed; it’s “just a very high person trying to remember it.”
(Adam, 27:32) - Lucid Dreaming and Creativity:
Cites a lucid dreaming chemist who solved real-world problems in his sleep, questioning if usable information can be brought back from altered states.
(Adam, 28:30)
Entities, Machine Elves, and Alien Encounters
- Strange Beings:
Discussion of “machine elves” (coined by Terence McKenna) and “dancing alien females,” with several anecdotes about recurring characters in DMT space.
“Machine elves…tiny little creatures that can make things.”
(Adam, 29:57) - Boundaries & Warnings:
Overuse sometimes elicits an “energy” warning users they shouldn’t return too often.
“There’s this energy where they’re like, that’s enough. You shouldn’t be here anymore.”
(Adam, 31:10)
Biblical Mysticism and the Book of Enoch
- Strassman's Interest:
With his study of ancient Hebrew, Strassman brings a biblical/mystical lens to his psychedelic research.
“He got into it. He really dived into it. Rogan’s done something similar, which is just kind of have AI just tell him about it.”
(Adam, 32:52) - Book of Enoch:
They summarize its lore—angels (Nephilim) descending, mixing with humans, and creating giants—stories omitted from mainstream bibles.
“Like at that point that was history. So now we don’t believe it obviously. But that’s because someone changed history.”
(Adam, 34:47) - Alien Interpretations:
Excluded books sometimes describe figures like Jesus as “a traveler from the stars—a cool, cool read.”
(Rick, 35:12)
AI, Neuralink & The Future of Consciousness
- Psychedelics & Technology Converging:
Could the “singularity” combine AI, neural augmentation, and altered states into a new human destiny?
“Is there some sort of point that we’re going towards where all these things just kind of connect at the same time?”
(Adam, 36:15) - Neural/live AI Upgrades:
Discuss human augmentation:
“Imagine that, just like a pill…that just like goes through your system…fix all these things, you know, turn back the age of all these organs.”
(Adam, 37:05) - Societal Impact:
AI’s disruption is already being felt:
“It’s putting jobs out of business. Whole industries are gone.”
(Rick, 38:42)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
"It’s kind of amazing that he got permission to work with that. I think there was a combination of things. I mean, one, he said that he was trying to prove that it was bad, which is something that the government's anti-drug policy would be all about."
— Adam Thorne (03:23) -
"I would have expected that I would see angels and fairies and not alien life forms."
— Dana (02:02) -
"People are bound by their egos and their habits and their knee-jerk responses. Maybe that stuff can knock them out of it and get them into a deeper realm."
— Rick Strassman (07:12) -
“Is this just a very fleeting thing, like holding a snowflake and then it just melts away and it’s all gone?”
— Adam Thorne (15:26) -
“The only annoying part about this whole thing is you can’t record any of it…it’s just like a very high person trying to remember it.”
— Adam Thorne (27:32) -
"Machine elves? Yeah. So they're just tiny little creatures that can make things."
— Adam Thorne (29:57) -
“There’s a book that they excluded that talks about Jesus coming from the stars as a traveler. It’s like an alien. Yeah, that's a cool, cool read.”
— Rick Strassman (35:12)
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 01:36 | Introduction to Rick Strassman and DMT research legacy | | 06:00 | Trauma, therapy, and the role of psychedelics in healing | | 09:08 | Ubiquity and natural presence of DMT | | 11:08 | Ayahuasca, shamanic practice, and clinical perspectives | | 12:53 | Uniqueness of different psychedelic experiences | | 15:07 | Integration and real impact of psychedelic journeys | | 17:27 | Results of ketamine and other psychedelic therapy | | 22:02 | Revisiting "The Spirit Molecule" and IV DMT experiments | | 25:19 | Laser experiment & “Matrix” perception theory | | 29:57 | Machine elves and entity encounters | | 32:41 | The Book of Enoch, biblical mysticism, and excluded texts | | 36:11 | Neuralink, AI, and the future of human consciousness |
Conclusion
The hosts offer a lively, insightful, and often humorous review, balancing enthusiasm for the therapeutic and philosophical implications of psychedelics with healthy skepticism about their transformative claims. They contextualize Strassman’s work historically and speculate on where neuroscience, technology, and spirituality may intersect next. Whether you’re an old-school Rogan fan or curious about the next wave of psychedelic research, this episode gives a comprehensive, relatable breakdown.
Further Engagement
- Adam plans to read Strassman’s memoir, while Peter plans to tackle the Book of Enoch—promising follow-up discussions.
- Listeners are invited to reflect on whether the psychedelic renaissance will bring lasting change, or if it’s (as Adam puts it) “just a fleeting snowflake.”