470 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Rick Strassman

Summary

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Joe Rogan Experience Review — Ep. 470 Review of Rick Strassman

Podcast: Joe Rogan Experience Review
Episode: 470 — Review of Rick Strassman’s JRE Appearance
Date: October 12, 2025
Hosts: Adam Thorne & Peter

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Overview

In this episode, Adam Thorne and Peter dive deep into the Joe Rogan Experience episode featuring Dr. Rick Strassman, renowned for his pioneering research on DMT and for authoring "The Spirit Molecule." They discuss Strassman’s new memoir, the ongoing renaissance of psychedelic research, spiritual experiences, the therapeutical potential (and limitations) of psychedelics, the mysterious world of DMT-induced visions—including machine elves and biblical lore—and speculate on the future intersection of psychedelics, AI, and human consciousness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Rick Strassman’s Psychedelic Research Legacy

• Background:
  Strassman is a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico and led the first FDA-approved human studies on DMT in the 1990s.
  “He’s basically the pioneer in psychedelic research...best known for leading the first FDA approved human studies on DMT in the 90s. Crazy.”
  (Adam Thorne, 02:54)
• How He Got Approval:
  Strassman told authorities he wanted to prove DMT was dangerous, aligning with prevailing anti-drug policies in order to conduct his studies.
  “He snuck it in the back door, kind of.”
  (Rick Strassman, 03:48)
• New Memoir:
  His new book, My Altered States, weaves trauma, consciousness, psychedelics, and biblical mysticism.
  Strassman even learned ancient Hebrew to explore biblical roots—“Dedication to your craft.” (Adam, 05:01)

Trauma, Psychedelic Therapy & Healing

• Current Trends:
  Psychedelics like psilocybin, ketamine, and MDMA are showing promise treating addiction, depression, PTSD, and trauma.
  “They’re finding fantastic results for people with addiction, depression, PTSD, major traumas.”
  (Adam, 06:52)
• Limitation of Traditional Therapy:
  Psychedelics can strip away ego, making one confront emotions without denial—contrasting with talk therapy where patients might “say all the right things to the therapist…and become like, agreeable.”
  (Adam, 07:21)
• Therapeutic Potential:
  “There might be more of a cure with the psychedelic stuff…”
  (Rick, 08:17) But Adam questions if dramatic changes are illusory:
  “Maybe there’s more of an illusion of a cure or a difference than there actually is?”
  (Rick, 16:46)

The Mystery and Ubiquity of DMT

• Found Throughout Nature:
  DMT is found in human bodies, plants, and various mammals.
  “It’s ubiquitous too, that the DMT molecules are across the whole planet in different plants.”
  (Rick, 09:10)
• Production in the Body:
  Discussion on pineal gland, liver, and stomach as possible sources in mammals.
  “Let’s get Strassman on this.”
  (Rick, 09:33)
• Not a Novelty:
  DMT is a naturally occurring compound, not synthetic like LSD.
  (Adam, 09:46)

Ayahuasca and Traditional Use

• Experiential Accounts:
  Adam recounts an interview with someone who underwent an ayahuasca retreat, describing layered processes (mushrooms, fasting, ayahuasca) and unclassifiable, mind-bending visions:
  “Some of the visions were really interesting…something that would be new…kind of very visceral hallucinations almost, or visions.”
  (Adam, 13:35)
• Integration and Lasting Change:
  Hosts debate whether psychedelic breakthroughs lead to lasting changes, or if results fade:
  “Is this just a very fleeting thing, like holding a snowflake and then it just melts away and it’s all gone?”
  (Adam, 15:26)
• Cultural Differences:
  Adam expresses respect for indigenous shamans’ generations of expertise versus newer clinical approaches.
  “Not to say the clinicians up here...don’t know what they’re doing…but they don’t have, like, generational experience with it, probably.”
  (Adam, 11:38)

The Spectrum of Psychedelics & Their Effects

• Mescaline & Peyote:
  Talk about the Native American Church’s use of peyote (mescaline) for addiction and “deserty vibes.”
  “More rattlesnake hallucinations. Yeah. More deserty vibes.”
  (Adam & Rick, 17:58)
• Comparison of Substances:
  Each has unique effects; you can’t analogize mushrooms, DMT, alcohol, or marijuana to one another.
  (Adam, 12:53)

Revisiting "The Spirit Molecule" Research

• DMT Doses and Experiments:
  Strassman's studies involved large IV doses, sending volunteers into “hyperspace” for an hour or more, which current standards wouldn’t allow.
  “I don’t know how long those trips. I think they were like over an hour, though.”
  (Adam, 22:39)
• Patterns in Hallucinations:
  Subjects returned with “overlapping stories…types of things that shouldn’t be able to line up,” which unsettled Strassman.
  (Adam, 23:21)
• Laser Experiment/Perception Theories:
  Anecdotes about DMT tuning perception to a “universal field”—looking at refracted laser light while on DMT, people report seeing “characters and letters…like actually seeing into the Matrix.”
  (Adam, 25:19) "Can anyone make anything of it? Is it just tripping?" (Adam, 26:45)

The Unrecordability of Psychedelic Experience

• Challenge of Documentation:
  Experiences can't be reliably recorded or relayed; it’s “just a very high person trying to remember it.”
  (Adam, 27:32)
• Lucid Dreaming and Creativity:
  Cites a lucid dreaming chemist who solved real-world problems in his sleep, questioning if usable information can be brought back from altered states.
  (Adam, 28:30)

Entities, Machine Elves, and Alien Encounters

• Strange Beings:
  Discussion of “machine elves” (coined by Terence McKenna) and “dancing alien females,” with several anecdotes about recurring characters in DMT space.
  “Machine elves…tiny little creatures that can make things.”
  (Adam, 29:57)
• Boundaries & Warnings:
  Overuse sometimes elicits an “energy” warning users they shouldn’t return too often.
  “There’s this energy where they’re like, that’s enough. You shouldn’t be here anymore.”
  (Adam, 31:10)

Biblical Mysticism and the Book of Enoch

• Strassman's Interest:
  With his study of ancient Hebrew, Strassman brings a biblical/mystical lens to his psychedelic research.
  “He got into it. He really dived into it. Rogan’s done something similar, which is just kind of have AI just tell him about it.”
  (Adam, 32:52)
• Book of Enoch:
  They summarize its lore—angels (Nephilim) descending, mixing with humans, and creating giants—stories omitted from mainstream bibles.
  “Like at that point that was history. So now we don’t believe it obviously. But that’s because someone changed history.”
  (Adam, 34:47)
• Alien Interpretations:
  Excluded books sometimes describe figures like Jesus as “a traveler from the stars—a cool, cool read.”
  (Rick, 35:12)

AI, Neuralink & The Future of Consciousness

• Psychedelics & Technology Converging:
  Could the “singularity” combine AI, neural augmentation, and altered states into a new human destiny?
  “Is there some sort of point that we’re going towards where all these things just kind of connect at the same time?”
  (Adam, 36:15)
• Neural/live AI Upgrades:
  Discuss human augmentation:
  “Imagine that, just like a pill…that just like goes through your system…fix all these things, you know, turn back the age of all these organs.”
  (Adam, 37:05)
• Societal Impact:
  AI’s disruption is already being felt:
  “It’s putting jobs out of business. Whole industries are gone.”
  (Rick, 38:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s kind of amazing that he got permission to work with that. I think there was a combination of things. I mean, one, he said that he was trying to prove that it was bad, which is something that the government's anti-drug policy would be all about."
  — Adam Thorne (03:23)

• "I would have expected that I would see angels and fairies and not alien life forms."
  — Dana (02:02)

• "People are bound by their egos and their habits and their knee-jerk responses. Maybe that stuff can knock them out of it and get them into a deeper realm."
  — Rick Strassman (07:12)

• “Is this just a very fleeting thing, like holding a snowflake and then it just melts away and it’s all gone?”
  — Adam Thorne (15:26)

• “The only annoying part about this whole thing is you can’t record any of it…it’s just like a very high person trying to remember it.”
  — Adam Thorne (27:32)

• "Machine elves? Yeah. So they're just tiny little creatures that can make things."
  — Adam Thorne (29:57)

• “There’s a book that they excluded that talks about Jesus coming from the stars as a traveler. It’s like an alien. Yeah, that's a cool, cool read.”
  — Rick Strassman (35:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 01:36 | Introduction to Rick Strassman and DMT research legacy | | 06:00 | Trauma, therapy, and the role of psychedelics in healing | | 09:08 | Ubiquity and natural presence of DMT | | 11:08 | Ayahuasca, shamanic practice, and clinical perspectives | | 12:53 | Uniqueness of different psychedelic experiences | | 15:07 | Integration and real impact of psychedelic journeys | | 17:27 | Results of ketamine and other psychedelic therapy | | 22:02 | Revisiting "The Spirit Molecule" and IV DMT experiments | | 25:19 | Laser experiment & “Matrix” perception theory | | 29:57 | Machine elves and entity encounters | | 32:41 | The Book of Enoch, biblical mysticism, and excluded texts | | 36:11 | Neuralink, AI, and the future of human consciousness |

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Conclusion

The hosts offer a lively, insightful, and often humorous review, balancing enthusiasm for the therapeutic and philosophical implications of psychedelics with healthy skepticism about their transformative claims. They contextualize Strassman’s work historically and speculate on where neuroscience, technology, and spirituality may intersect next. Whether you’re an old-school Rogan fan or curious about the next wave of psychedelic research, this episode gives a comprehensive, relatable breakdown.

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Further Engagement

• Adam plans to read Strassman’s memoir, while Peter plans to tackle the Book of Enoch—promising follow-up discussions.
• Listeners are invited to reflect on whether the psychedelic renaissance will bring lasting change, or if it’s (as Adam puts it) “just a fleeting snowflake.”

Transcript

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Adam Thorne]

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[Adam Thorne]

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[Dana]

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[Adam Thorne]

To the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one. One go. Enjoy the show. This is the story of DMT, or dimethyltryptamine. A molecule with a complex name and the simplest ability to unlock the door to another dimension. Dmt, the spirit molecule. You know, it's a conundrum, it's a paradox.

[Rick Strassman]

It's amazing that we have a molecule in our brain and throughout our body that is the most potent halo syndrome that we know. Why is DMT in our bodies? Why is it in plants, in all sorts of mammals? What is the role it plays in humans? Between the inhalation and the exhalation, they were then transported into, you know, whatever it is or wherever it is that DMT leads people.

[Dana]

I would have expected that I would see angels and fairies and not alien life forms.

[T-Mobile Commercial Voice]

Are these experiences spiritual experiences or otherwise?

[Adam Thorne]

Are they created by physiological processes or.

[Libsyn Ads Host]

Is the brain itself responding to something that's going on?

[Adam Thorne]

Hey, guys. And welcome to another episode of the JRE Review. This week I am joined by Peter. How are you, sir?

[Rick Strassman]

Howdy. Doing pretty good. How are you doing?

[Adam Thorne]

It's good to have you here. I'm doing fantastic. I really am very excited that Rick Strassman is back on now. You and I both Went to the University of New Mexico. Also lived in New Mexico. Great university.

[Rick Strassman]

Quality institution. Very nice.

[Adam Thorne]

And a good medical school too.

[Rick Strassman]

Research hospital, unmh. They do good stuff over there.

[Adam Thorne]

It's underrated. People don't realize how good the schools are there. So. Yes. Dr. Rick Strassman, medical doctor, clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine. He's basically the pioneer in psychedelic research. Best known for leading the first FDA approved human studies on DMT in the 90s. Crazy. And then author of the Spirit Molecule.

[Rick Strassman]

Dang.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It's kind of amazing that he got permission to work with that. I think there was a combination of things. I mean, one, he said that he was trying to prove that it was bad, which is something that the government's anti drug policy would be all about. And I don't think people knew a lot about what DMT was.

[Rick Strassman]

He snuck it in the back door, kind of.

[Adam Thorne]

They were kind of focusing on other drugs that they, you know, they thought were worse. They're like, oh, this is just a. Whatever thing.

[Rick Strassman]

Hippies.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. He didn't. He didn't. I don't think he hit them directly with. This is the most powerful psychedelic ever created.

[Rick Strassman]

And you might see God and you become a better person.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. And now he has a new book. So he has a new book coming out. A bit of a deep dive into his memoirs. My Altered States, A doctor's extraordinary account of trauma, psychedelics and spiritual growth. I'd like to check it out. You know, I find that stuff very interesting. And you know, it kind of. He said it spans like trauma, consciousness, reality kind of. There's like a biblical mysticism element that he was kind of bringing in. I guess he's been studying the Hebrew Bible or something.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah, he learned ancient Hebrew. He can't speak the modern kind, but he can speak the ancient one.

[Adam Thorne]

Wow.

[Rick Strassman]

It's crazy.

[Adam Thorne]

That's massively nerdy.

[Rick Strassman]

Dedication to your. To your craft.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. What did he say? It took him 16 years to do that. 16 years. Is it the same as the like, no one speaks it? Only like Jewish priests.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah. Nobody speaks it. You can't understand it if you speak modern Hebrew.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Rick Strassman]

There is a period of time when they revamped that whole language. Adding consonants. There was only. Or adding vowels, there was only consonants.

[Adam Thorne]

I think that's interesting.

[Rick Strassman]

Same thing happened with Arabic.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, well, you know, I mean the English language thousand years ago, like the Beowulf poems or whatever they're called.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You like can't understand what that is, it's like the language changed too much. You probably, you probably couldn't understand anyone until like about Shakespeare's time, probably.

[Rick Strassman]

They're too. But they were too drunk on Scrumpy.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. They were just fighting each other.

[Rick Strassman]

No teeth.

[Adam Thorne]

Surviving the plague. It was a tough time out there.

[Rick Strassman]

Hard times.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. So trauma and psychedelic therapy. So, you know, that's a big point of conversation these days and especially in the world of therapy. I know some people that are trained or getting trained to be able to administer or they don't technically administer the psychedelic, usually have someone else do that and then, you know, the therapist will kind of guru you through the experience, kind of integrated and process things with, you know, help you process things. And, you know, they're finding, especially with like psilocybin, ketamine, mdma, they're finding fantastic results for people with addiction, depression, ptsd, major traumas.

[Rick Strassman]

I do the ketamine one. That sounds interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

Sounds interesting. Yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

Relatively safe. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

And I. And I think it does highlight something quite important, which is like the limitations of talk therapy. And, you know, they exist.

[Rick Strassman]

People are bound by their egos and their habits and their knee jerk, knee jerk responses. Maybe that stuff can knock them out of it and get them into a deeper realm.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, exactly. I think, I think what the psychedelics are doing is like removing your ego and making the emotions you feel and, and whatever is troubling you, like, you can't hide from it in any way. You can't put up walls. You can't be in denial. Like, it's right in front of you, staring, reflecting right back into your consciousness. And, you know, in talk therapy, you can sit there and say all the right things to the therapist and, and become like, agreeable or start working in the direction of, like, wanting to please them. And these are all things that a good therapist should watch out for and should be cautious of. And, you know, many of them are, but many of them just take the paycheck and say, see you next week. So, you know, you get people in therapy forever sometimes, Right?

[Rick Strassman]

Well, there seems to. There might be more of a cure with the psychedelic stuff is what you're saying.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure. I think there's a path potentially for some people. You know, it's like if you're open to it, but the way you get there is research. And that's exactly what Strassman kind of started in, in his way with, with dmt. I don't necessarily know what the therapeutic advantage of DMT is, I think, you know, because they all go to this particular realm they see these entities. I think it just puts existence into a different type of perspective. You like maybe, maybe this shit that we deal with here in this plane is just not as important as we think. Which probably would take a lot of pressure off us.

[Rick Strassman]

I would love that to be true.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

It's ubiquitous too, that the DMT molecules are across the whole planet in different plants.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they're in us.

[Rick Strassman]

They're in us, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Which does that mean? We make them. Yeah, we make them. We make them then we make them.

[Rick Strassman]

With our bodies somehow.

[Adam Thorne]

There we go.

[Rick Strassman]

In our stomachs probably. Yeah, probably down there.

[Adam Thorne]

Down there. I would imagine.

[Rick Strassman]

Let's get Strassman on this.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, well they were saying it's like pineal gland makes them. I think in rats they found that the liver makes them. But I don't know if it's that.

[Rick Strassman]

Liver does a lot for us.

[Adam Thorne]

Lots of stuff is making all kinds of things these days. But yeah, it's in there, it's natural. You know, it's not like lsd, lysergic acid, which is very synthetic and other compounds that are so damage wise when it comes to physical damage is probably low. You know, it's like cannabinoids. They're also in our system.

[Rick Strassman]

Right. You know, we all have cannabinoid receptors in our brains.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly. And crows do. Is that right? Those stoners, I stupid stoner birds.

[Rick Strassman]

Weed.

[Adam Thorne]

They do, they love it. So they're always like eating my food.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Just looking for Cheetos and Funyuns, shiny objects. So they go for. Yeah. So I, you know, I think because it's like a part of us. The only question is, you know, I guess doing anything too much, even if it doesn't kill you would be a lot. Sure. If you did DMT every day you'd be pretty spaced out and massively disconnected from the reality here. Which I'm sure would have its own negative consequences for your own mental health.

[Rick Strassman]

Makes its own problems.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure. But who knows, maybe under the right therapeutic conditions some guidance, you know, dip in and out once every six months. Who's to say?

[Rick Strassman]

Would you do a ayahuasca journey or would you go like more clinical if you were ever to, to try something.

[Adam Thorne]

Like this, you know, when it comes to ayahuasca, I think it would be cool to go to like, where is it, like Peru and deal with those shamans and forests down there.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't have to deal with a doctor necessarily.

[Rick Strassman]

They roll around in the mud.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, look, when you're down there, you're not breaking the law. I mean, most of these compounds aren't legal, so. And they've done it for a long time, so they really know what they're doing.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Not to say the clinicians up here that are recently training or getting trained to administer this stuff don't know what they're doing. Like, I'm sure they do, but they don't have, like, generational experience with it, probably.

[Rick Strassman]

Our buddy Graham Hancock is all about it.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah, he loves it.

[Rick Strassman]

He's done, like, six or seven journeys down there.

[Adam Thorne]

Deep dives. Yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

What a brave guy.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, And I've known plenty of people. I've actually interviewed somebody for another podcast I have where they talked in detail about their experience with ayahuasca. So they basically started it off with, I think, a really heavy night of mushrooms.

[Rick Strassman]

Wow.

[Adam Thorne]

And that was to kind of get you in the zone, I guess. I don't know. And then the next day, there was, like, a fasting period and kind of integration of the night of mushrooms and then the next night. So you have, like, a day off. Then the next night you do the. Do the ayahuasca. And. Yeah. While talking, I mean, it sounded incredible. Like something that I can't even imagine. Very strange. I was trying to draw, you know, like, most people try to draw the connection between drugs.

[Rick Strassman]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

They're like, is it like this one or is it like this? But when you think about them, I mean, just take alcohol and marijuana. It's completely different. Oh, yeah. You can't really, like, be like, well, it's a bit like this one and that. It's not. They're all different. They all take you to kind of a different spot. And that's what he was getting across to me when I was interviewing him about ayahuasca. Some of the visions were really interesting. That, to me, was like something that would be new. I hadn't done anything at that time that would have elicited that type of, you know, kind of very visceral hallucinations almost, or visions.

[Rick Strassman]

They say you definitely go somewhere. It's like you're not in your realm anymore.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Or maybe. Maybe you just get access to other dimensions, like layers on top of what we already see. Maybe these things are just existing around us, and it just, for a short blast, gives you. Gives you a vision of it. Like, supposedly he said. What was one of the things that he said? I think it was something like a spider. He saw, like, a giant spider, like, just roaming past. But it Wasn't, like, scared of it. Like, often these things have messages for the individuals.

[Rick Strassman]

That'd be.

[Adam Thorne]

All of that's very strange. And of course, it's a very long time, just seven hours or something like that. But he said, you know, there was, like, bongo music and people just kind of walking around in this, like, garden area, just keeping you chill. If you were, like, getting worried, they'd, like, give you a blanket or usher you somewhere.

[Rick Strassman]

Just turn the bongo music up a little bit.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. If you could just turn the bongs up.

[Rick Strassman]

Let me hear that tippy tappy, please.

[Adam Thorne]

But my question to this person was, and this is why I wanted to do the podcast with him, just to kind of record the experience, because you don't always get really good data or stories on this stuff, and especially not firsthand. And also because it's kind of like a fleeting memory. I wanted to capture it before even he forgot about it clearly.

[Rick Strassman]

Gotcha.

[Adam Thorne]

So try and keep it as fresh as possible. And. But my question was, like, what is the change? What's the integration? Because he was so sure, immediately he was like, oh, dude, this changes everything. I'm like a different person now. I've seen it all. I've done it. I've been there. I've gone. Gone through the wormhole.

[Rick Strassman]

He's all wise now.

[Adam Thorne]

I've, you know, experienced the. Through my traumas, and I went deep. And I'm like, I love all that. And I love maybe even just feeling like that for a second, because so many people feel so trapped in their own psyche and their own issues mentally, that even just the belief for a short period of time that you've solved something might be enough for you to be a bit more positive. I really wanted to know, well, what were the changes? Are they long term? Did it really change your behaviors? Is there an understanding that you gain that is long term, or is this just a very fleeting thing, like holding a snowflake and then it just melts away and it's all gone. And you're like, oh, there was a thing. Was it cold? I can't remember.

[Rick Strassman]

I know it was cold and round.

[Adam Thorne]

It was pretty cold.

[Rick Strassman]

Wait a minute. Are you on DMT right now? Okay.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I took some before the podcast. Out of respect. Yes, out of respect. But. But yeah, the. The. The real answer at the end of it was just like, the. The jury's still out on this one for me, because it seems like these people behave and act and work and do everything the same as they did before. That.

[Rick Strassman]

So you're saying that maybe there's more of an illusion of a cure or a difference than there actually is?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just so much more subtle. And it was. It's just like a slight adjustment, but it's at least in the positive direction. But. But I don't know. I don't really know what the value of it is. Again, I haven't studied it. This is just kind of chatting with people and being interested. But at the same time, they definitely are. I know clinicians that use ketamine for therapy. They specialize in that.

[Rick Strassman]

I've heard great stuff comes from those sessions.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they're seeing that it really helps people with that.

[Rick Strassman]

Depression and alcoholism.

[Adam Thorne]

Yep. Addictions.

[Rick Strassman]

The Native American church has used psychedelics, Peyote, mushrooms, for decades, at least to treat addiction.

[Adam Thorne]

Now, peyote is masculine, right? Masculine. Which is a bit like.

[Rick Strassman]

It's a.

[Adam Thorne]

Mushrooms.

[Rick Strassman]

Ooh, I would. I've never done it. Oh, I'm sure it's between mushrooms and DMT's in a way.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Rick Strassman]

It has that.

[Adam Thorne]

More rattlesnake hallucinations. Yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

More deserty vibes.

[Adam Thorne]

Deserty vibes. Cacti type stuff.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah. Jim Morrison. I believe it. Just putting that out there.

[Adam Thorne]

Is that what he did a lot of.

[Rick Strassman]

I think he did a lot of mescaline. Okay.

[Adam Thorne]

He liked lsd, too.

[Rick Strassman]

I think I could be wrong.

[Adam Thorne]

Who knows? We'll Google it. We'll Google it. But yeah, you don't hear a lot about mescaline these days.

[Rick Strassman]

It's not too strong.

[Adam Thorne]

It's not.

[Rick Strassman]

If you just chew on a button, it doesn't really zoom you to the moon like DMT would?

[Adam Thorne]

But don't they make some sort of drink that you take and then it's like concentrated and then also you feel really sick.

[Rick Strassman]

I think you do puke at some point, you throw up. I'd like to get into that. A little bit. Masculine seems safe. It just seems like a cool one.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I think that the, you know, like I was saying, there are some therapeutic advantages potentially, and I think they should be studied and explored. And if there are values there for some people that are really stuck, you know, that have tried everything they can with talk therapy but still feel terrible, can't, you know, kick. Kick the addiction, or they're just stuck in this, like, negative cycle that's interfering with their life. If there's a potential for helping those people, I think we have an obligation to find it. And of course, it's research. We can always throw it out if it doesn't show any therapeutic benefits. Once we've like tested it with the scientific method, then it's perfectly reasonable to say, well, no, there's nothing there. So keep it illegal and don't let it. Don't tell everyone not to use it. And go from.

[Rick Strassman]

There's the other part of this where they do keep it illegal because it works so well and they don't make any money on it.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. Yeah, yeah, you know who they are. But can you just sell it like another product, like just get a big peyote growing, you know, farm, and then grind it into pills and then sell them like a supplement but with a prescription for way too much money. And you make money that way, surely.

[Rick Strassman]

Come on.

[Adam Thorne]

Do you have to hafta. Hafta always have a pattern on it?

[Rick Strassman]

I guess so, yeah, I guess so. Every plant, every medicine is from a plant anyway.

[Adam Thorne]

That's true.

[Rick Strassman]

Except you get to the bottom of these ones.

[Adam Thorne]

Yep. Do you think any medicines come from animals?

[Rick Strassman]

Andrenochrome.

[Adam Thorne]

I heard rhino bones give you bonus.

[Rick Strassman]

Oh yeah. Tiger.

[Adam Thorne]

Tiger blood makes you Charlie Sheen. Ah, winning.

[Rick Strassman]

I wonder if he if he's ever had some DMT experiences.

[Adam Thorne]

No, I think he was more of a crack guy.

[Rick Strassman]

Crack?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, he like getting real excited about stuff.

[Rick Strassman]

He's banging seven gram rocks. Cause that's just how I roll.

[Adam Thorne]

Blossom in this part they did a bit of a revisit to the spirit molecule.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges, Why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeff Bridges]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Rick Strassman]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeff Bridges]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Adam Thorne]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[T-Mobile Commercial Voice]

The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credits and balance due to the payoff earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto paypal taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove speed test intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com you.

[Adam Thorne]

Know, just kind of a recap on his IV DMT blasts where he'd send these subjects into hyperspace. What he was saying is the IV quantities they were using were quite a lot because again, the wall, they were kind of relying on him as the expert to say what the dose should be. So they just kind of approved, I think, a range that he suggested or his team, which kind of gave him free reign. But now they know a lot more. They wouldn't let you go there, But I mean, DM like IV'd in.

[Rick Strassman]

That's incredible.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I don't know how long those trips. I think they were like over an hour though.

[Rick Strassman]

These people were in that, in their.

[Adam Thorne]

States, in this space of just.

[Rick Strassman]

So the dmt, not the, the DMT is just a quick acting. Right. And then the what? The MOI inhibitor is what they use in Ayahuasca.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. So even though it would be quick acting, if you have it IV'd, it just isn't stopping.

[Rick Strassman]

Gotcha.

[Adam Thorne]

So your body is very good at getting DMT out of its system or like break it down so it's not affecting your mind. Right. That's why the body can break it down and all in five minutes.

[Rick Strassman]

And when you wake up from a dream, it's gone.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. But turns out if you IV it into somebody, you can't. Your body is doing everything it can to stop it and it's like, where's the rest of this coming from? Oh, no. And they just blasted through space. But you know, the interesting thing about that, and I remember the documentary, it was cool. They had it on Netflix for a while and Rogan actually narrates it, which is kind of cool. Yeah, it's a good documentary, dude. And a lot of it talks about kind of how Strassman really kind of freaked out and that's why he stopped doing the experiments, because the subjects kept coming back over and over again with more and more stories that were like lining up, overlapping stories, a bunch of them, the types of things that shouldn't be able to line up. And, you know, I don't know if I think he must have done the DMT before he did these studies, but obviously not in this kind of concentration. But it, I think it just did kind of freak him out. And then there's something that he actually brought up the last time he was on Rogan, and it's about this kind of new finding And I don't know who found it, but there's a laser experiment theory, I guess, is what it is, where it's like DMT might tune perception to the point of accessing this sort of universal field of information that's everywhere all the time. So the videos that I've seen of it, and obviously a lot's lost because it just basically looks like a really high person staring at a laser beam on a wal. So you're like, what? That looks ridiculous, but the idea is you get one of those like a laser, you know, like a red pointer, whatever. And you know, they have different types of lasers like that. And then you refract it somehow. So you put it through a prism or like a lens or a glass, you know, curved glass, something like that, and then it. And then it refracts on the wall so it's like spread on the wall. You got your thin line. People administer DMT and then they look into the laser and supposedly there's characters and letters and things just moving around like a code. Like actually seeing into the Matrix, like. Like the Matrix so ahead of its time. If it turns out you can DMT laser into the code of the universe. Like, did those guys just guess it all?

[Rick Strassman]

Maybe they have some insider knowledge.

[Adam Thorne]

I should actually now say those ladies, those lovely ladies. Yes, but I was talking in past tense of what they. Who they were then.

[Rick Strassman]

The Winowski. Wininski sisters. Yeah, something like that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Excellent movie. Excellent movie and an incredible story. I mean, there were just so many pieces of that. But. Yeah. What do you make of the laser experiment? I mean, can anyone make anything of it? It's like this code is. Is it just tripping?

[Rick Strassman]

People tripping.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Rick Strassman]

You know, lasers have little parts about their. Like when you put a laser on a wall, there's. It's not just a.it's it's bubbling in there, it's moving around.

[Adam Thorne]

It's a bunch of photons.

[Rick Strassman]

Is that what that is?

[Adam Thorne]

From a like very small spectrum of light. That's why they're just certain colors.

[Rick Strassman]

It's like a dog fight going on outside.

[Adam Thorne]

Yep. Dog attacks. Is dog on dmt? Get him out of here.

[Rick Strassman]

Dogs are hippie. The smartest people that broken has on often say that they believe that we're in a simulation.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. So like, you know. But is that it? Is that it lining up?

[Rick Strassman]

Could be.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, the only annoying part about this whole thing is you can't record any of it. It's not like through your DMT lens, you can take a picture of this code, you know. And so it's so it's just like a very high person trying to remember it.

[Rick Strassman]

Right. And that always gets annoying, doesn't it? Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like I think I saw a fish and an upside down pea and squiggly line, two dots.

[Rick Strassman]

I'm going to go put my pen down. It's not worth writing.

[Adam Thorne]

It's not. It's just complete mess. They just eat the page. Yep. Yeah, that's kind of. It's what makes it tricky about these experiences is there's just no way to record any of it. I mean if someone could bring something back almost the same as like from the dream world. It's like I guess from the dream world sometimes people have ideas that maybe could turn into inventions or businesses like that could be real.

[Rick Strassman]

Yes.

[Adam Thorne]

And I've heard of a lucid dreamer in this book that I was reading once that he was a chemist and he could lucid dream so effectively that he could write out equations on boards that he was working on like chemical biochemistry, that incredible thing organic chemistry reactions and solve them and find the answers that we could do work and leave and you know, double dipping. That's. That is, that's super nerd.

[Rick Strassman]

Well you don't lucid dream your work home with you.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. Keep doing homework. But you know the question there is, it's like are you able to bring anything back from like if there are entities in the DMT world, couldn't they give you something to come back with? Maybe they just don't care.

[Rick Strassman]

They impart feelings to people.

[Adam Thorne]

Tickling.

[Rick Strassman]

They give them a little scratch here and there.

[Adam Thorne]

Uh huh.

[Rick Strassman]

Like you know, a soul. Tickling let's say. Or that where they feel lighter or maybe more like heavier, like more responsibility. I think that there's. We have to be careful of quick solutions.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Rick Strassman]

Driving towards seeking those.

[Adam Thorne]

Another big one is like the encounters with machine elves or aliens. And many people talk about experiencing that.

[Rick Strassman]

Machine elves?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. So they're just tiny little creatures that can make things.

[Rick Strassman]

I like that.

[Adam Thorne]

And they just kind of. Here you go, check that out. Look at this. What about this? Here you go. Just handing you all this just floats in front of your brain and you're like I can't, I can't make sense of any of this right now.

[Rick Strassman]

Interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It's sheen elves. Terence McKenna talked about it a lot. He was machine elves.

[Rick Strassman]

Get into that one.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Not everyone sees him. One account I heard of and it was just a YouTube video that interviews people that have done it is there was this Guy that said there was, like, this dancing alien female that was always kind of interacting with him, and they would, like, was somehow kind of getting mad at him, like he had cheated on it or something. I. That story kind of went in a direction I was like, I don't think sounds erotic, but maybe that was just his experience with what he was seeing. And another thing that lines up, too, with the many videos I've seen it, it's like, if people do it too much, there's kind of gets to a point where there's this energy where they're like, that's enough. You shouldn't be here anymore. Like, for right now. Maybe make it easy come back.

[Rick Strassman]

But, yeah, hang out in the real world for a minute.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. You lose your. You know, maybe they just see him, like, material, like, shaking into their universe, and it's like, no, no, no. You need to get back over there, dude. You go nuts.

[Rick Strassman]

You got a job.

[Adam Thorne]

You got a job to do. Those blockbuster movies can't hand themselves out.

[Rick Strassman]

Not anymore.

[Adam Thorne]

Not today.

[Rick Strassman]

It's missed that place.

[Adam Thorne]

They have one left, supposedly.

[Rick Strassman]

It's, like, in Fairbanks, maybe.

[Adam Thorne]

Is that in Canada? Alaska, right? Yeah, Alaska. Is it legit Blockbuster, or was it just some nerd that bought a bunch of them and just kept the name?

[Rick Strassman]

Probably legit, huh?

[Adam Thorne]

That's interesting. It is kind of a shame that you don't go to the movie store anymore. And on the weekend as a kid, that was, like, the best thing to do. The new releases, you're like, oh, God, there's one there, right?

[Rick Strassman]

And then you, like, check all those packets. They're all empty.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

And the shame when you were the one to choose the movie and it sucked.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, that was rough.

[Rick Strassman]

I was. I'm always getting the one about aliens.

[Adam Thorne]

Are flying or something, 80s, and everyone's like, boo.

[Rick Strassman]

I'm like, I liked it.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, there's like, an added pressure when you're the guy that picked the movie and you're, like, hoping people will be into it the whole time. You're, like, laughing, extra. It wasn't that good. Oh, I'll get the popcorn. Everyone just looks bored.

[Rick Strassman]

Damn it.

[Adam Thorne]

Damn it. All right, let's finish this up with some of the biblical weirdness, I would say. Book of Enoch.

[Rick Strassman]

That's a good book.

[Adam Thorne]

He got into it. He really dived into it. Rogan's done something similar, which is just kind of have AI just tell him about it. So what do you know about the Book of Enoch?

[Rick Strassman]

Well, I know that the two parts of the Bible, the old Testament, the New Testament at some point were like, you know, canonized and some books were excluded and some were added and I. The Book of Thomas, I believe Mary Magdalene, the Book of Enoch, there's a couple others.

[Adam Thorne]

Jeff.

[Rick Strassman]

Carl, the Book of. Carl and I just read about the Book of Enoch moments ago and it was. It's like it tells a story of the Nephilim being created, I think where that's the angels coming down, mating with humans and then like causing chaos.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Whoa.

[Rick Strassman]

That's what they broke and talked about in this pod.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

I really want to. I'm downloading the book, the book on audible book. I'm gonna listen to it.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, so they've like translated and made it into a story that is just easy to digest. Yeah, listening to someone read the Bible.

[Rick Strassman]

Exactly. I can listen to it while I take a walk or something.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. Well, get on that. Let me know what you think. You know what's interesting about. It's like, well, where does that fall in? It's like this is part of the history. Was it, Was it a story that for a long time existed that people read and worshiped and believed and knew to be true?

[Rick Strassman]

The people of that area, like the, the. I forget the called but the desert Jews.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Rick Strassman]

They were in enclaves.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rick Strassman]

Had these books.

[Adam Thorne]

Wow.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah. And. And they tell some incredible stuff. There's even.

[Adam Thorne]

It's kind of a weird thing like getting rid of the book. It's kind of like, well, you're changing history because like at that point that was history.

[Rick Strassman]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

So now we don't believe it obviously. But that's because someone changed history. If someone hadn't, we'd be like, oh yeah, of course. Those like alien angel creatures had sex with a bunch of humans and then made some whatever else and giants.

[Rick Strassman]

Giants and the. There's. There's a book on. There's a book that they excluded that talks about Jesus coming from the stars as a traveler. It's like an alien. Yeah, that's. That's a cool, cool read. Why don't we have that in there? And why didn't that. Why did they exclude those and not the other ones that are ridiculous like the 900 years or walking on water. Walking on water.

[Adam Thorne]

Making everything into wine.

[Rick Strassman]

Yes.

[Adam Thorne]

Thank God he didn't get too close to the ocean.

[Rick Strassman]

Uh huh. That's why they call it the Red Sea though.

[Adam Thorne]

Would have been a wine. A huge. Imagine if he could only turn it into wine but then not back and he's like, whoops. And all the sea and it's like we're have a couple of good weeks, couple of fun weeks and then we're going to struggle death, we're going to struggle after that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

[Rick Strassman]

Well, let's read the book of Enoch.

[Adam Thorne]

Let's get into it. Yeah, let's get into it. Try and figure out what's happening there and, and go from that. Lastly, they finished up with neuralink and AI, future consciousness. I mean that kind of ties into like DMT type stuff, like, but more in a technical, futuristic kind of way. And it's like. Yeah, is there some sort of point that we're going towards where all these things just kind of connect at the same time? The singularity event or we will be.

[Rick Strassman]

Obsolete and flesh and blood humans will be no longer around.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, dude, neuralink and like augmentation is 100% gonna be a thing.

[Rick Strassman]

Yes.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean if it's not done with, with like nano tech medications, I mean imagine that just like a pill that just like goes through your system and then it's little nanotechs and they're like, right, Stem cells here, peptides there. Fix all these things, you know, turn back the age of all these organs. Grow some hair, you know, like literally just reform. You can just something else. Right.

[Rick Strassman]

Or something.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, make them faster, make them like super ripped. Even though you don't like barely work out.

[Rick Strassman]

I would like, would love that.

[Adam Thorne]

And then on top of that, I mean just think of just regular AI enhancements. Like basically the chip in your brain that gives you infinite access to all things. Just like an infant, like a chat immediately, just all the answers, all the.

[Rick Strassman]

Things just a thought away.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Somebody says something to you and you're just not sure what to say back. So you just like run it through all these systems and you're like, give me the best, nicest cleanest answer here. That gives me the outcome I want. It's all. They're doing the same though. So it's like a real problem.

[Rick Strassman]

Couple of polite guys car to each other.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? But AI is coming up a lot. It's coming up a lot everywhere. People have complained recently that it's like, oh, AI again with Rogan. I'm like, it's AI again with everyone.

[Rick Strassman]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

No one knows what the hell this thing is gonna do. It's okay. It's already freaking people out.

[Rick Strassman]

It's. It's putting jobs out of business. Whole industries are gone.

[Adam Thorne]

Gone. Yeah. It's wild stuff.

[Rick Strassman]

Dude and it's good for some stuff but like I guess I think they've been using it to write scripts because they've been terrible lately and all these movies.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Well on that note and yeah, movies do suck. They need to get better. Let's. Let's hope there's more research in areas for these psychedelics and for therapy and help. And God bless Strassman for getting that passed and being able to do that research in the 90s. Well done. He's a good man and hope to see him back on. And I'm going to check his book out while Pete reads the book of Enoch.

[Rick Strassman]

We'll get back to you.

[Adam Thorne]

God bless you. Talk to you next time.

[Rick Strassman]

Bye.

[Adam Thorne]

See ya.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeff Bridges]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Rick Strassman]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeff Bridges]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Adam Thorne]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[T-Mobile Commercial Voice]

The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit sending balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 A new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit T mobile.com this episode.

[Adam Thorne]

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