472 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Lionel Richie

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review: Recap of Joe Rogan’s Interview with Lionel Richie

Podcast: Joe Rogan Experience Review
Episode: 472 - Review of Lionel Richie
Hosts: Adam Thorne & Pete
Release Date: October 22, 2025
Summary by: Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is a comprehensive review and discussion of Lionel Richie’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience. Adam, with guest Pete, dive into Richie’s legendary career, his influence on music and culture, songwriting process, industry challenges, personal anecdotes, and wider tangents sparked by the conversation—bringing their signature mix of humor, insight, and candid reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lionel Richie's Legacy and Early Days

• The hosts reintroduce Richie as a soul and funk legend who emerged from the Commodores, before launching a stellar solo career with smash hits like “Hello” and “All Night Long.”
• Noted for his four Grammys, over 125 million albums sold, and co-writing “We Are The World.”
• Quote: “Was he like the front man of the Commodores, or just one of the guys?”
  — Adam, 01:18
• Discussion of Richie’s departure from the Commodores due to his outsized talent overshadowing the group:
  “It really wasn’t until Lionel, like, did his solo leap that when… it really stood out that, like, he was the player, right.”
  — Adam, 04:44

2. Finding Fame and Its Costs

• Conversation likened Richie’s stardom with examples like Justin Timberlake’s leap from NSYNC.
• Joked about what happened to other boy band members:
  “The rest of them just kind of opened pizza shops and got fat, I think. I don’t know… Typical stuff.”
  — Adam & Pete, 06:14
• Notable mention of celebrity locals in Bozeman, Montana, including Justin Timberlake and Jessica Biel, for a local flavor.
  — 07:26

3. Iconic Music Videos and Moments

• Humorous take on the music video for “Hello”:
  • Richie is depicted as “creepily following her [the blind girl] around a school.”
  • Discusses the awkwardness and strangeness of music videos by today’s standards:
    “Hello. Is it me you’re looking for? That’s inappropriate.”
    — Adam & Pete, 08:18

4. ‘We Are the World’ and Michael Jackson Stories

• Richie’s pivotal role in “We Are the World,” and anecdotes involving Michael Jackson:
  • Nickname “Smelly” due to wearing the same clothes as items kept getting stolen:
    “Because every time he sent his clothes off to get washed… people would steal his underwear and his clothes.”
    — Adam, 10:25
  • Explores Jackson’s childhood trauma, issues of abuse, scandals, and struggles with fame.
  • “It’s undeniable this person’s childhood was kind of ripped away from them.”
    — Adam, 12:47
  • Insightful analogy: “No wonder he wanted to get away from them more.”
  • The tragic end—Jackson’s need for a personal anesthesiologist to sleep illustrates “the tortured mind of a celebrity.”
    — Adam, 14:58

5. Speculation on Celebrity Deaths and the Music Industry

• Discussion about suspicious deaths in music (“27 Club”)—Hendrix, Morrison, Cobain—and whether artists sometimes become “worth more to their record labels dead than alive.”
• Darkly comic aside referencing Courtney Love:
  “Oh, didn’t they also touch on… same thing happened to what’s his name, Jimi Hendrix?… She might have did it.”
  — Adam & Pete, 18:03–18:11

6. Challenges of Stardom and the Dark Side of Fame

• Musicians’ burdens: divorce, burnout, relentless paparazzi, constant pressure, substance abuse.
• Richie's perseverance through tough times (e.g., performing while his mother was terminally ill).
• He shares his wisdom:
  “[It] only cost me that much to learn that lesson… Knowing that he can come back from it.”
  — Adam, 31:25
• Reflection on exploitative management: “There’s some greedy record exec… some like gangsta style, ‘Sign this, sign this, sign your soul away.’”
  — Adam, 31:44

7. Songwriting Process & Academic Insecurity

• Richie felt insecure as a songwriter for not reading or writing music; he learned from jazz and blues legends that “can you hum, can you tap it?” was enough.
  • “He couldn’t read or write music, and he felt inadequate… then he would meet these blues guys… [and realize] it can come from anywhere.”
    — Adam, 26:51
• Creative process: “He would listen to the silence of his own mind, and just a song would come out of somewhere.”
  — Pete, 27:54

8. ADHD, Medication for Kids, and Education System Critique

• Lionel Richie’s opinions on education and medication:
  • Opposed to medicating creative children into compliance.
  • Argues for differentiated education:
    “If there’s a very creative kid… being taught to be a factory worker… [school] is to train you to be like a factory worker.”
    — Adam, 21:02
  • Laments lack of practical real-world skills taught; the only “math we’re ever really doing” is tipping at restaurants.
  • Criticism of overmedicating kids:
    “It was just getting too easy for too long… to give people these medications.”
    — Adam, 25:11
  • Medical note: Kids on long-term stimulant meds are “actually shorter than their compatriots… It does something molecularly to your cells.”
    — Pete, 25:37

9. Legacy, Mentorship, and Soft Power

• Richie’s role now as a mentor (e.g., on American Idol), counseling young talent about fame and character.
  • “I hope you love people.”
    — Lionel Richie, paraphrased by Adam, 33:29
  • Emphasizes remaining “curious” and “kind.”
• Richie’s acceptance into Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2022—a momentous recognition.

10. Personal Life and Family

• Nicole Richie and the effect of wealth and privilege on upbringing, speculation on Lionel as a parent and now grandparent.
  • “That makes for a spoiled brat. But she seems to have calmed down as a mom.”
    — Pete, 34:20

11. Fan Favorites & Closing Thoughts

• Celebration of Richie’s enduring hits:
  • “When I was a kid, I would jam ‘All Night Long.’ All day long. That’s a good song.”
    — Pete, 34:49
  • On what made the Rogan episode special: “What an interesting guest for a Rogan episode. I enjoyed it… left field… did not see that one coming.”
    — Adam, 35:01

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Outshining Bandmates:
  “The reason he had to leave the band is because he was just outshining them. You know, he would get the interviews, they didn’t even want to talk to anyone else but him.”
  — Adam, 05:07

• On the Absurdity of Fame:
  “If you got some money… Big Sky is way out of the way.”
  — Adam, 07:37

• On Michael Jackson’s Difficult Life:
  “It’s undeniable this person’s childhood was kind of ripped away from them… what does that result in when you got hundreds of millions of dollars? You build your own theme park, so you can get away and be a kid for a day.”
  — Adam, 12:47

• On School and Creativity:
  “It would be far better to just separate the school and classes by the personalities of the kids. They can all still hang out at recess, but… there’s different ways it could be taught to different kids.”
  — Adam, 22:26

• On Songwriting:
  “He couldn’t read or write music, and he felt inadequate. And then he would meet these guys… and they’d be like, can you hum? Can you tap it? And then he realized…it can come from anywhere, potentially.”
  — Adam, 26:54

• On Surviving the Industry:
  “He said that like quarter of a million dollar deal that cost him a lot… It only cost me that much to learn that lesson. Which actually is a super wise thing to say.”
  — Adam, 31:25

• On the Power of Resilience:
  “You don’t get in that room unless you are the best at what you’re doing.”
  — Adam, 29:44

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-----------| | Intro and Lionel Richie’s Career Overview | 00:51–03:00 | | The Commodores and Going Solo | 04:04–05:22 | | Famous Music Videos (‘Hello’) | 07:38–08:41 | | Michael Jackson Stories & Child Stardom | 10:14–14:44 | | The 27 Club & Suspicious Deaths | 17:43–18:46 | | Education, ADHD Medication Critique | 20:40–26:50 | | Songwriting Insecurities and Inspiration | 26:51–29:09 | | Fame’s Dark Side and Learning Tough Lessons | 31:06–32:59 | | Legacy, Mentorship, and Giving Back | 33:27–34:34 | | Family, Nicole Richie, and Wealth | 34:06–34:26 | | Closing Thoughts and Worth of This Episode | 35:01–35:41 |

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Overall Flow and Tone

This review episode is playful and irreverent, peppered with offbeat tangents, personal stories, and deep dives into showbiz lore and psychology. Adam and Pete blend admiration for Richie’s artistry and character with honest skepticism toward the music industry and fame, all while keeping things relatable and fun for listeners. They highlight both the triumphs and the tolls of being an icon—with warmth, humor, and a little healthy cynicism.

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Final Recommendation

“If you guys haven’t heard this one, check it out. It’s worth it.”
— Adam, 35:41

Lionel Richie’s Joe Rogan appearance is celebrated as a “must-listen” for fans of music history, celebrity culture, and tales of resilience and reinvention.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. 1. Go. Enjoy the show. Hey, guys. And welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. This week I got Pete in the stew. Brandon is in New York doing standup and stuff, which is cool.

[B]

God, jealous.

[A]

Yeah. He needed a week off so he could focus on that. And I said, no worries. We got. We got Petey here.

[B]

That's just the kind of boss you are.

[A]

That's it. I'm a good guy. I do my best. I do my best. You know, you gotta give people flexibility, though, and you gotta give people the opportunity, especially when, like, focus on something else for a minute, you know, it's the same vein. It's not like this is hard to do, though.

[B]

Breaks my back.

[A]

Yeah. Every time. It's not like I'm like, oh, yeah, you don't have to come in the coal mine today. But it's still nice to not have to worry about it. I think he probably appreciated that. Anywho, enough about how great I am. Yes, we are reviewing the Lionel Richie episode. Lionel Richie, the soul legend really needs no introduction, but I'm gonna give him one anyway.

[B]

He deserves it.

[A]

He's the really. Was he like the front man of the Commodores or just one of the guys?

[B]

No, he was one of the guys.

[A]

One of the guys. The Commodores was a big deal in the 70s. Funk Soul bangers like Brick House and timeless hits like hello.

[B]

You know, it was that him or. I think that was him. Solo. Oh, was hello.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Solo was. Yeah. And All Night Long was him. Solo as well. You're right. Yeah, right? And yeah. Sold over 125 million albums, snagged four Grammys, and co wrote the charity anthem We Are the World, which is. Was a big deal.

[B]

Yeah, it was a big deal. You remember those?

[A]

We Are the World.

[B]

I guess that was before Tiny even.

[A]

But we are the World. No, that was like the 80s. They like raising a bunch of money for stuff.

[B]

How many CO wrote that? Like 100 people.

[A]

Hundred. Hundred top level singers in there. Everyone wrote one word. He wrote.

[B]

Ah, well, there you go.

[A]

There we go. It wouldn't have made sense otherwise, you know, I mean, like, we the World.

[B]

Thank God for like, something's missing.

[A]

Something's not right.

[B]

Gotta nail this down.

[A]

Something's not right. And yeah, he's 75 years old. Came on and what a legend.

[B]

He does look great still.

[A]

He does.

[B]

I mean, of course, he's 75. He had a lot of work.

[A]

He's had some work. There's some nipping and some tucking going on, smoothing. But I do think he had some great stories. He's lived an incredible life. Seems like, you know, quite a sweet guy. And, you know, this book was. Is one of those moments where you get to really kind of, you know, a lot of introspection and kind of going over it all.

[B]

I'll read it.

[A]

It's cool stuff.

[B]

I love Band's autobiographies.

[A]

Biographies in general are pretty cool. A lot of times I. I have kicks every now and again where I just. Just bang through a bunch of autobiographies of people and they're surprisingly interesting.

[B]

Yeah, the best one was Ozzy's, but this one might be rivaling that.

[A]

No Doubt. No Doubt was Aussies. Really good.

[B]

I liked it. I've read it twice.

[A]

I am amazed he remembers any of his life. He.

[B]

He had help, Remember, he had a ghostwriter. He actually can't basically read anything. He has such bad dyslexia.

[A]

Oh, true. And I would imagine his handwriting would be real scribbly.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

It might. I mean, I'm just saying.

[B]

God bless him.

[A]

God bless him. God Rip. I miss him. I was very sad. Do you know that Brandon actually had to. We couldn't even do a pod that day.

[B]

He was. That.

[A]

He was very upset.

[B]

I like that about him.

[A]

Yep. He's a good man. And a huge fan of Ozzy.

[B]

Black Sabbath was incredible.

[A]

The best it took. It took some of my friends down, man. There was a huge. I mean, the amount of texts that I got when he was gone. Unreal. Unreal. What a legend. But, yeah. So let's start with the Commodores, right? Early Commodore. What do you know of them? Do you like any of their songs?

[B]

I used to see them on tv. Like, you know those late night. Buy the album of. Buy this, like, album. It has hundreds of artists on it kind of thing. Blips of him. They're always in sync. Dancing around, which I thought was awesome. And singing. Hard to do.

[A]

Yep. Yeah.

[B]

Sharp dressed.

[A]

They. Yeah, they were a talented bunch. They showed up and, you know, they. They had a few. Few good songs. I think they were trying to find their voice in their own way, though. And it really wasn't until Lionel, like, did his solo leap that when. When it really stood out that, like, he was the player, right.

[B]

He was the big talent.

[A]

And it makes sense when he was saying that, that. Yeah, it Was all of a sudden the reason he had to leave the band is because he was just outshining them. You know, he would get the interviews, they didn't even want to talk to anyone else but him.

[B]

Push the mic right over everybody, right?

[A]

And that's. It's kind of standard, right? That's the type of thing that happened, you know, you could imagine that happened. Very much so with Justin Timberlake when he went solo.

[B]

I was just thinking that.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he got so big with those albums. I remember when he came out with those. Justin Timberlake came out with those albums. I mean, I didn't care at all about NSync. I was just like, boy band, gross, right? And, you know, whatever. They had some, you know, boppity boppity pops. But then when he came out with his, like, real good, I was like, what? This is great.

[B]

We jammed those for a while and.

[A]

Just changed in my mind as a person. I was like, legend. Obviously, like, he just soared. And the rest of them just kind of opened pizza shops and got fat, I think. I don't know. I don't. I'd have to Google it.

[B]

I think some of them might have died. I think someone went to space. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

One one lives underground.

[B]

Typical stuff.

[A]

Yeah, just regular rich boy band stuff, I think.

[B]

Oh, and fun fact, him and his wife live up here.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I saw her the other day.

[A]

Did you really?

[B]

Jessica Biel? Yes.

[A]

Where did you see her?

[B]

A local establishment. Eatery.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, she was just normal. Tossing her trash away.

[A]

With the kids?

[B]

No, just with her handlers, her helpers.

[A]

Oh, what eatery?

[B]

Farmer's daughter. Free shout out.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is interesting. Yeah. They live in town. There's, you know, I mean, if you look at the Yellowstone Club, for example, there's, I mean, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, There's a bunch of super rich people that have houses up there. But, you know, I think they're just moving now into town because they're like, we like it. Bozam's cool. And they, you know, people are thinking of raising kids and stuff. It's like, what's their alternative? Wherever. I mean, I know Justin has ties to I think Knoxville.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or Nat.

[B]

He's from the southeast.

[A]

Tennessee or something. He's a.

[B]

He's a.

[A]

But yeah, he's not going to raise him in la and maybe he doesn't want to raise him in the south. And there's just, you know, this is a cool, like, out of the way place. So if you got some Money.

[B]

Big sky is way out of the way.

[A]

That's it. That's it. But yeah, so Lionel went solo, obviously. Made some massive hits. Is hello the deaf girl one blind girl. There we go. Sorry. Yeah. You don't want to be singing to a deaf girl, do you? That's not fair.

[B]

She's like. What is he doing?

[A]

He's just like, vibrating around her, doing.

[B]

His Commodore dance moves, spinning.

[A]

And what is the music video? He's like, creepily following her around a school.

[B]

She's like a really cute mixed race gal, blind, making her way through college, going to classes, doing stuff.

[A]

He's just, like, peeking around trash cans and stuff.

[B]

He's through the little window in the door. Yeah. Hello. Is it me you're looking for? That's inappropriate.

[A]

She's. That is inappropriate. And why do you need to be peeking? You could literally be stood right next to her. As long as your cologne's not too.

[B]

Strong, you're not breathing too hard, he's.

[A]

Not going to know. It was a different time, Pete.

[B]

I love that song, by the way.

[A]

It's very good. It was a different time and you could do that.

[B]

If you ever want to just really alienate everybody at a karaoke joint, just put that one on and give it your all.

[A]

Really? Why?

[B]

Nobody. Nobody wants to hear that from me.

[A]

Nobody. Is it, like a hard one to sing?

[B]

It's. Yeah. It's got some range that you need.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you just.

[B]

Timing ruined it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll never stop, though.

[A]

I like the idea of doing that meatloaf song. I would do anything for love.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Because it's like 12 minutes long.

[B]

Total eclipse of the Heart.

[A]

You need another person there. And it just goes. It just goes on and on.

[B]

Good one.

[A]

It has like 12 choruses in it.

[B]

Excellent jam. Yes. That's also a cool music video.

[A]

So kind of, if you're not having a good time at a karaoke and you want to ruin it for everyone else, just do that in the middle and everyone will leave.

[B]

This is probably way fun fact. This is probably way off topic, but there's this in Southeast Asia or the Philippines, they will shoot you. If they don't like what you've been singing, they will shoot you. In fact, My Way by Frank Sinatra is the number one song not to sing over there.

[A]

To get shot, too.

[B]

You'll get shot.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The bouncer has shot somebody. Look into that.

[A]

If anybody's curious, what is the best song that's least likely to get you shot? Chumbawamba.

[B]

Oh, Hands Down Chumbawamba.

[A]

It's gotta be. I'll get knocked down. And they're like. Yeah, they're just shooting in the air. That's a fun time. Anyway, let's get back to good old Lionel. I love the stories of mj Michael.

[B]

Jackson, one of the greatest ever to have graced the stage.

[A]

Of course, the nickname Smelly.

[B]

Excellent.

[A]

Hilarious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Made him stronger.

[B]

I wonder why he's. Wonder why he got that.

[A]

Well, because he would wear a lot of the same clothes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because every time he sent his clothes off to get washed because Michael was so famous, people would steal his underwear and his clothes.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because they're probably worth a lot of money or they just wanted to keep them.

[B]

Yeah. And of course, they're like, all leather at that point. Like leather vests and pants and stuff.

[A]

I mean, it was probably his regular clothes, too. I'm sure he didn't wear leather underwear that wouldn't be very comfortable. Rock stars, you never know. Diamond encrusted underwear.

[B]

You don't know what I'm wearing under.

[A]

Here at age 12. Well, my question there, though, was why not just give it to, like, someone that could just, like, anonymously take it to a dry cleaner? Then you wouldn't know whose clothes it is. What does the bag say? Michael Jackson's underwear on it?

[B]

That's what mine says.

[A]

I mean, sure, it's going from the house, so there's a clue, but I feel like if Michael was like, yeah, they keep stealing my clothes, you could quickly come up with a way to not have all your clothes stolen.

[B]

I guess if you're that famous and wealthy, you don't care how you smell.

[A]

Well, that's true.

[B]

The McConaughey effect.

[A]

That's true. And then that Q story about the people that gave him some shoes and they were too big. So Lionel was like, just go to my closet. Go get some. Go get some stuff.

[B]

Find some proper shoes over there.

[A]

And he just put all his clothes on the floor. Pick some stuff. Just left him. He's a kid.

[B]

Little Mikey.

[A]

He's just a kid, after all. Playing pranks on people.

[B]

He was so cute back then.

[A]

Yeah. Putting it. What do you say, like, itching powder.

[B]

Oh, jeez.

[A]

People's hair and their wigs. Whatever. Hilarious.

[B]

That would be terrible. Terrible.

[A]

Worst. The worst. But, yeah, it was cool that he was, you know, kind of like a mentor, you know, to Michael and. And, you know, also understood how difficult Michael's life was. I mean, whatever you think of Michael Jackson, you know, with all the allegations and scandals and things that happen. I heard the documentary is, like, pretty brutal. You know, if you're a big Michael Jackson fan, it's supposedly recommended not to watch it, you know, in that sense. But it's quite incriminating, I guess. But again, with anything. And documentaries can be spun in any way. That one is. Is certainly spun in that direction. But at the same time, you know, it's undeniable. This person's childhood was kind of ripped away from them. And they went through quite an ordeal.

[B]

And incredibly abusive father.

[A]

Right. And pushed hard, working all the time, tons of pressure. Just didn't have the chance to just go play on the swings, you know? I mean, what does that result in when you got hundreds of millions of dollars? You build a theme park, your own theme park, so you can just get away and be a kid for a day and hang out with other kids and, you know, try and regress. And every adult you've ever known wants something from you. No wonder he wanted to get away from them more.

[B]

Yeah, that. That documentary was pretty hardcore. But then you look back at people who are alive now, famous kids that are not quiet about the abuse that they suffered or have seen. Like one of the Coreys. Was it Feldman? He said he was. They're really good friends back then. And no weirdness. Macaulay Culkin was friends with him and he said no weirdness.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

There was a cleaning lady who testified against Michael, and then she came out as saying she was paid $30,000 to do so, which sucks. Which is. And she said he. It was. She didn't see that stuff. She lied.

[A]

Outrageous.

[B]

Who to believe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he's found not guilty.

[A]

But imagine, you know, imagine the scenario that he was innocent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is just a scenario. I'm not trying to say he was or whatever. I don't know. But imagine he was. And he did love kids as much as he always said that he did. And it kind of looked like he did originally on the outside with theme parks. And always hanging out with them and doing a lot with Peter Pan stuff. Yeah, yeah. And now you're known as the child molester. It's like. And you've gotta live with that. You can't clean that off. You can't wash that off.

[B]

No.

[A]

And, you know, we find out he died because he literally has a doctor that works for him full time who's an anesthesiologist that has to put him under anesthesia every night to go to sleep because he's so tormented, he can't even Sleep.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Like, the guy was just tortured.

[B]

Tortured.

[A]

Tortured is a good word in his own mind, right.

[B]

Yeah. By society, by the record execs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He was about to own all his music, I think, when he died.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Something like that happened.

[A]

Brutal.

[B]

Oh, didn't they also touch on. Same thing happened to what's his name, Jimi Hendrix?

[A]

Oh, yeah, they did talk about Jimmy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Interesting stuff.

[B]

He might have been killed.

[A]

Yeah, well, they. I think they found him dead. They blamed it on, like, not an acid overdose, but, like, he basically choked on his own vomit. And he supposedly was, like, real high on acid. Right. You know, and maybe there was alcohol involved, that type of thing. But that to me, always seemed. It's just like. I don't know. Just that alone seems suspicious. Sure. People die that way. I think it's probably more likely if it's heroin for people to die like that.

[B]

You know, pills and heroin would make you fall asleep. Like, acid doesn't perks you up, from what I understand.

[A]

Right? Yeah. And drinking, it's like, yeah, you can pass out and probably. But, I mean, people pass out a lot. I mean, I was in college. I knew a lot of people just passing out from booze, and it was never really too huge of a concern. Maybe there was occasionally those, like, blackout kids, you might want to roll to the side if they've been thrown up.

[B]

A lot, if they were on pills. That was a big cause of death in my high school. At least a couple kids did die that way. Oh, they did from drinking and pills.

[A]

And was throwing up and dying. Okay.

[B]

Percocets or Oxycontins or something.

[A]

Yeah. So maybe. Maybe it was some of that. But, you know, it is suspicious that it was in line with rights to records and these sorts of things. And they, you know, a lot of, like, gangster, shady stuff going on back then, and who knows what they're up to. When money's involved, when millions of dollars is involved in things people will do horrible shit, dude, loyalty goes right out of the window. I mean, you don't become an agent at all, like a. Like a talent agent at all, because your life is filled with loyalty. No, that is not. Like, if you're, you know, you have those friends and you're like, he's just so loyal. He's such a good person. He's so loyal. Those friends don't become agents, and if they did, they're not good. They're not good at that job.

[B]

They'll quickly flunk out of it.

[A]

This. Yeah, that. Definitely something else. So, yeah, I. I don't really know, but yeah, that's. That was a sad one for sure.

[B]

Strange 27 Club.

[A]

I know. Who else was in that?

[B]

Janis Joplin.

[A]

Morrison, Jim Morrison, Kukobain, Kurt Cobain. Yeah.

[B]

So. And all these people potentially have. Are worth more to their record labels dead than alive.

[A]

That's true. Well, certainly to Courtney Cox.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She made a lot of money.

[B]

She might have been. She might have did it.

[A]

She's worth like hundreds of millions. Have you ever seen any of the documentaries that talk about her, like, basically being responsible for. Can't recall them killing Kurt, like, indirectly or whatever. Pretty damning. Pretty gross and pretty damning. I think even, like her dad thinks so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, some of it's ugly.

[B]

Yeah. There's. She was not a nice woman.

[A]

No.

[B]

Didn't she go, don't go on to like, form a band like, called Garbage or something?

[A]

I think she was already in one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fitting name.

[A]

She'd like, get naked on stage and do all sorts of gross stuff, supposedly. I mean, look, I don't want to share too hard, but. But, yeah, I miss Kirk.

[B]

We miss.

[A]

You know, it's sad.

[B]

All the greats.

[A]

He's a good man. He's a good man. But, you know, the life of a rock star is. It's not all like you think, you know, you get to pick what you want to be when you come back. Right. Imagine if it was like blank slate. You'll just get to exist. You're just born into the universe. And they go, what do you want to be? And you're like, oh, football player, Formula one driver, the president, a dictator somewhere, maybe just the most famous influencer or an actor, maybe, or a singer or a rock star even. It's like it kind of doesn't matter what you pick. Everything's going to come with challenges. And I think you'd be surprised at how many challenges, regardless of what you pick.

[B]

Elvis didn't seem like he was having a great time towards the end.

[A]

Yeah, well, that movie that they made about him certainly displayed that it was a lot of kind of sadness and pain for him.

[B]

Turmoil.

[A]

Yeah, just, you know, those scenes where he just wanted to be like a good dad and he was like, separated from his kid and the wife and, you know, it's difficult, it's painful.

[B]

Different time. He did marry. He did court. A 14 year old.

[A]

Yeah. Not. Not a great move. Is that legal then?

[B]

Was that down Southeast? Potentially.

[A]

Was it? What was that like, Alabama? He's from Memphis, right?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So Tennessee could you do that? Then we're gonna have to Google it.

[B]

Let's Google it. Give it a goog.

[A]

Let's Google it and have a look. What about medication for kids? That was kind of a big topic for them. Medication? ADHD medication for kids.

[B]

I'd say that's a touchy subject, but where did they come into a consensus on. Did they meet in the middle somewhere?

[A]

No, it's bad. You know, it's a big pill. It's like, kids. Well, it's kind of. Basically, Lionel's whole thing was, you know, if there's a very creative kid, like, he was sat in a classroom being taught to be a factory worker, which is like the Prussian system of education that we have. It's like, go to school at 9 and listen to the bells and wait till 3 and sit at your desk and here's your homework and blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Yeah, I think that was a Rothschild thing or a Rockefeller thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

I'm not really sure. But it's like. To train you to be, like, a factory worker.

[B]

Punch a clock.

[A]

Exactly. And if you're a very, like, creative person, you're gonna have a hard time. You're not gonna want to sit still. You're gonna be all over the place.

[B]

That was you and I, and that's.

[A]

How you kind of diagnose partially ADHD stuff. Partially, Sometimes. And then it's like, yeah, medicate them. Keep them still so they're, you know, slightly messed up. And I'm not saying it's all bad. It's good for some kids. Some kids are bouncing off the walls. Some kids are really struggling to sit still. And realistically, lots of kids need to go to public school because their parents work, and they have no alternative.

[B]

True.

[A]

So it's like, I don't want them getting kicked out of school, and. And I need them to finish, and I need them to graduate, and they need to learn some things, and I hope they go to college. So maybe this is the answer. However, if we're thinking in the big scheme things, it would be far better to just separate the school and classes by the personalities of the kids. They can all still hang out at recess, but it's like, okay, we got some creatives here. We. We got some real thinkers here. We got some introverts here. They can still occasionally mix in different classes that kind of don't require. Like, if you got a drama class, for example, you can have a mix of whatever.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Sports, whatever. Automotive class, you know, public speaking or debate class. You can have A mix, you know. But if it's like math or science or you know, English, history, it's just like maybe there's different ways it could be taught to different kids.

[B]

Instead of going and hating your life at school, failing over and over.

[A]

Exactly. Like a bit more interactive maybe for like very energized kids that need him, like move around.

[B]

Then you could teach them math in that subject, like say carpentry or something. They're like, that's this math will apply. This is how you apply it.

[A]

Some sort of applicable approach. And you know, ultimately somebody that's gonna be very much a creative just realize they're not gonna, they don't need to get to calculus ever. They're not gonna use it. Teach em basic arithmetic and stop it there. If you can add up and subtract and almost no one's even doing that. Have you seen most people trying to figure out a tip at a restaurant?

[B]

I watched one happen the other day.

[A]

That's amazing. I'm like, I just look sometimes and I'm not trying to belittle people that are not great at math, but realistically all you do is double the first number mostly, right. If it's $43, double the first number, it's 8 bucks. $8, it's close to 20 if you want to be really accurate. You can kind of round it and.

[B]

Add a bit, move the decimal one and that's 10% times it. Times that by two, that's 20%.

[A]

But even saying all that to somebody that doesn't get it is more. It's like a bunch of instructions, right. Just saying double that first number and make it single digit dollars.

[B]

I wish there was tax classes in school.

[A]

It's. But it's pretty simple math. And then still you see people all the time not getting it for whatever reason, you know, and it's like that's kind of the only math we're ever really doing. We're not adding anything up. Everything's added up for us. So teach them some other things that are useful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like medical stuff or just whatever they're interested in.

[B]

Sharpening sticks with knives.

[A]

Well, if they're into, if they're into it, I think it's better, you know. And then, you know, it's just, it was just getting too easy for too long. And it probably still is to give people these medications.

[B]

And they are finding now that kids on this long, kids on this long term are actually shorter than their compatriots. Two to three inches shorter than the other people that don't take these medications.

[A]

Oh, it affects their height, affects their growth.

[B]

Yes. Ooh, interesting, because it does something molecularly to your. To your cells.

[A]

Oh, it does.

[B]

Yeah. It speeds up your metabolism on a cellular level and affects us.

[A]

That makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense. I'm not a huge fan of it, I have to say.

[B]

Do the research, though. Don't listen to a couple chuckleheads.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, you know, talk to your doctor and all the rest of it. But ideally, just find other ways to creatively interact with your child. I mean, I think it's a gift for most kids, potentially. It just means that they are expressing themselves in a different way, they learn in a different way, and they have maybe very animated and energized about what they're doing, and they probably need a ton of stimulus. So figure it out. You know, it's like, look, you can get a bunch of dogs as pets. Some need to be walked a lot and some don't. Some have infinite energy, and you better have a big field next to your house to let them run in, and that's what you do. If you keep them locked up in your house, they're gonna go nuts and tear your couch up.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It doesn't mean they're bad dogs. What, are you gonna sedate them? Not cool.

[B]

Not cool.

[A]

Not cool. Yeah. Moving on. Lionel talks a lot about his songwriting process, you know, and, you know, he was around all these great songwriters, and he couldn't read or write music, and he felt inadequate. He felt like he wasn't a real musician. And then he would meet these guys, these blues guys, whatever, soul guys, and they'd be like, can you hum? Can you hum it? Can you tap it? And then he realized it's like, oh, it can come from this. It can come from anywhere, potentially. You know, I just have to believe in what I'm doing and just kind of let the creative thing unfold that way.

[B]

He kept going back to having a degree or academia as something that might have held him back from going forward creatively. Yeah, quite a bit. Kept. What is it called? Receiving. He was receiving. He would listen to the silence of his own mind, and just a song would come out of somewhere.

[A]

Sure. He would just get it very cool.

[B]

From the Ethereum, drag it out or given it by somebody else.

[A]

The muse, the other side, as it were. Yeah, you've got to make space for that kind of creative thing. I mean, if you. You can't force that type of creativity. I can imagine.

[B]

Probably not.

[A]

No. That's not gonna work. All right. It doesn't make sense that it would. And, yeah, I'm sure that was a long process to kind of lean into and work with. And I'm sure it's a delicate dance to be able to make these hits and kind of believe through this whole thing. What must be difficult is you be such a fan of music. If you're this type of artist, you'd like music that's similar to yours. And artists like yours, you'd be following their career like you're following your own. And people would have a song and you'd be like, man, that's a good song, and it's a hit. And you'd be like, I wish I had wrote that. And then all of a sudden, you're thinking of something, but it's, like, very close to theirs. And, you know, it's almost like as a comedian, when you're listening to some good jokes and you end up writing jokes that are similar, and you're like, ah, that's too close.

[B]

Too close to that.

[A]

I'm kind of accidentally stealing this one. Whoops. I need to back off. I wonder if that happens a lot with songwriters and musicians.

[B]

I mean, it overtly happens when they steal their samples or use their samples.

[A]

Sure, sure. It makes sense that it would.

[B]

He did talk about interviewing the greats. He knew he got to meet everybody, everyone.

[A]

Dude.

[B]

Al Green talked to that guy. He's like, he had some great stuff to say about him. Gave Lionel great advice back in the early days.

[A]

Yeah, that would be monumental.

[B]

What did they say? They got a PhD in hustle?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

They were not academically trained at all. Most of them couldn't read music either, but they knew how to do it through the grind.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And their innate talents. These guys are good.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you don't get in that room unless you are the best at what you're doing. And he was just entering, thinking that he needed all these extra skills until they said, hey, you've got it. You've got it. You've just got to believe that you've got it. And this is how we do it.

[B]

You got a gold record right there.

[A]

You got a gold. That's a gold.

[B]

We are not musically inclined.

[A]

No, that's the way we podcast, dude.

[B]

Oasis is.

[A]

I'm good with the cowbell. Good with the cowbell.

[B]

You hit it too hard. It's one thing you do that is.

[A]

The feedback I get. I'm not gonna lie.

[B]

You're banging on with that thing too much.

[A]

Slow it down, caress it I have.

[B]

No rhythm I'm on the Congo drum and I can make it sound nice but I can't keep a beat. Oh yeah, it's my adhd.

[A]

It's not easy. It's not easy out there. Well, that's what we got. Yeah, well, we're no Lionel, but he found his way with that. He talks a little bit about the surviving, the kind of dark side of fame as well. I mean we, we really just hit on Michael's dark side of fame, you know, his to divorce, burnout. Paparazzi's harassing the shit out of him. I mean it was pretty brutal back in the 80s.

[B]

I can imagine.

[A]

Obviously a lot of drugs. You know, you got to, you got to balance that. Parties, crazy parties. I'd imagine out of control.

[B]

Yes. Men everywhere.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Just always giving you exactly what you want all the time. That can, that can conflate an ego. Inflate an ego.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, probably bad deals. Like he said that like quarter of a million dollar deal that cost him a lot or. Yeah, 300,000. His mom was like, I can't believe it. And he's like, it only cost me that much to learn that lesson. Which actually is super wise thing to say. Right. Knowing that he can come back from it.

[B]

But I wonder who did that. Still going to sting when there's some greedy record exec.

[A]

Yeah, no doubt. Some like gangsta style. Sign this, sign this Sign your soul away. Uh huh. One of those. Dance for me and. Yeah, so. And you know what else with that? Oh, and his dad, remember he said his dad was like very sick, so he was out there giving it his all playing.

[B]

Yeah, his mom and.

[A]

Oh, was it Mom?

[B]

His mom was dying.

[A]

Okay, that was it.

[B]

Which record was it? Alone album, hello album. I forget which album it was. But he's out there and that must be a weird pull. Filling arenas, selling out crazy records. And then your mom's passing at the same time.

[A]

You just get off stage and call her and she's falling apart. And you're 10 cities over, you know, 10 states over, just wanting to be with her. But you know, your contract says that you have to do all these cities and all these tickets have been sold and all the money's on the line and they're not letting you off. No, all the people that around that. Because it's not just the singer that makes that money. No, everyone else makes that money.

[B]

They're all suckling on that teat and they don't.

[A]

You cancel a show none of them get paid, so they don't. They don't care about your mom like Lionel does, and that's the end of it.

[B]

And, in fact, they might end your career or end you. Seemingly Might kill you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Might not be good. But, you know, now he's in a much different place. You know, he's on. What is it? American Idol or the part one of those talent thing.

[B]

I think it's American Idol now.

[A]

And, you know, he's mentoring young talent and, you know, telling him things like, I hope you love people. That's good advice for, like, dealing with the fame aspect of it.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

And kind of reflecting on his legacy and how he can inspire others and all the different lessons he has for kids and, you know, saying, stay curious, stay kind, those sorts of things.

[B]

He definitely comes across as some. A guy that you'd want as a dad or a friend, but you never really know who they are behind the scenes. I wonder how. Remember Nicole Richie, Paris Hilton's friend and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Cutie, Right? That's his daughter. Right?

[B]

That's his daughter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wonder how. How he was to her as a father.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, she's a wild lady.

[B]

Yeah. She grew up with every privilege, of course.

[A]

Yeah. Spoiled brat.

[B]

That makes for a spoiled brat. But she seems to have calmed down as a mom. I think she's a mother now.

[A]

Huh. That's good. Good for them.

[B]

So he's a grandpa, huh?

[A]

Yeah. And got into the Rock and Roll hall of fame in 2022. That's a big deal.

[B]

Sure. Done that, like, in the 90s.

[A]

He was probably, you know, they really make you work for that one.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

They're making you work, and they really want you to be, like, super legendary. Take some time.

[B]

He deserves it.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

When I was a kid, I would jam all night long. All day long. That's a good song.

[A]

All night long.

[B]

Bonk badink bunk bunk badunk bunk.

[A]

That's fun time.

[B]

That's a good song.

[A]

That's a party. Oh, yeah, that's a. Everyone's having a good time.

[B]

You're gonna have a party.

[A]

You're gonna have a great time. Yep. He's. He's, you know, an American icon, legend, and God bless him. I'm glad he's still around and doing his thing and inspiring people, and he's leaving a fantastic legacy, and it was cool to have him on. What an interesting guest for a Rogan episode. I enjoyed it left field. I really did. Yeah. Yeah. I did not see that one coming. And just like Rogan said, when. When Lionel was asking him how you get people on the podcast or how you pick people, he said, just interesting people. I get to pick who I want. And when I saw, you know, his email, he was like, hell, yeah, I.

[B]

Have you on that's.

[A]

And definitely worth a listen. So if you guys haven't heard this one, check it out. It's worth it. And that's about it. Thanks, Pete, and cheers. We will talk to you all next time. Later.