500 JRE Review of Andrew Wilson

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 500: JRE Review of Andrew Wilson

Release Date: February 7, 2026
Hosts: Adam Thorne & Peter
Guest Discussed: Andrew Wilson (commentator, political critic – recent JRE guest)

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Overview

In this milestone episode, Adam and Peter break down Andrew Wilson’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience, examining his uncompromising traditionalist worldview, debate style, and the dynamics between Wilson and Rogan. The discussion ranges from elite power structures and media manipulation, to free speech debates, immigration, morality, and how online audiences have reacted to one of JRE's most polarizing guests.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Andrew Wilson’s Debate Style & JRE Chemistry

• Adam summarizes Wilson as a commentator who “argues from conclusions outward,” favoring certitude over speculation (00:45). He’s direct, traditionalist, and holds strong opinions on power, hierarchy, and Western decay.
• Rogan notably takes a more hands-off, platforming role rather than challenging Wilson directly, creating an episode that “felt like two guys kind of mostly talking on the same team” (02:01).
• The hosts discuss how Wilson, known for being “against somebody” in debates, appeared more at ease and explanatory on JRE, without his usual combative opponents (02:30).

Quote:

“He's so often against somebody… always used to hearing him debating and being challenged… this was definitely more just two guys talking…”
— Adam (02:01)

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2. Elites, Conspiracy Theories, and Power Networks

• Discussion quickly veers to elite control, referencing the Epstein case, QAnon, and rampant online conspiracy speculation (03:04).
• The hosts joke about how flexible conspiracy logic can be, musing on whether Epstein “might have started Bitcoin” or is still alive in Israel, tongue-in-cheek (04:06 - 05:39).
• Wilson’s and Rogan’s conversation is critiqued for blending skepticism with credulity, reflecting broader cultural anxieties.

Quote:

“You can almost believe anything… the world’s our oyster right now… the conspiracy theorists are having a field day.”
— Adam & Peter (03:09)

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3. Immigration, Census, and Electoral Strategy

• The hosts revisit the podcast’s arguments on the intentionality of immigration surges affecting US political demographics, especially in states like California and Minnesota (07:05 - 08:41).
• There’s nuanced discussion around generational voting patterns, with first-generation immigrants tending to vote left out of gratitude but later switching due to conservative worldviews (08:08).

Quote:

“Immigrants typically have a similar worldview as Republicans. They're generally more conservative people. But maybe their kids aren't... at first you're going to reward the people that got you there.”
— Peter (08:08)

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4. Wilson’s Internet Persona and Polarizing Moments

• The “pickle jar” meme and viral OnlyFans debates are mentioned as part of Wilson’s online reputation—moments where his bravado cut both ways (09:16 - 11:13).
• While praised for debate prowess (notably “wrecking Dave Smith”), Wilson’s abrasiveness and sometimes childish jabs are acknowledged as alienating.

Quote:

“For all the good things we'll say… there's also moments he got unnecessarily rude… felt childish.”
— Adam (09:39)

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5. Democracy: Symbol or Substance?

• Hosts reflect on Wilson’s and Joe’s skepticism toward the authenticity of modern democracy, suggesting real power is held by unelected elites regardless of elections (13:26 - 14:35).
• Cynical analogies are drawn between public voting and “letting a two-year-old stir eggs”: it's mostly about feeling included, not true agency (16:13 - 16:48).

Quote:

“It's almost like voting offers some sort of psychological buy in more than real influence…like when my two-year-old wants to help in the kitchen...”
— Adam (16:13)

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6. Media & Manufactured Outrage

• Several examples are cited of media stunts or potential hoaxes (Ilhan Omar’s “vinegar attack,” Jussie Smollett) as distractions from substantive issues, with hosts expressing frustration at performative victimhood (19:48 - 22:51).

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7. Free Speech vs. Censorship

• Both Wilson and JRE hosts defend a strong, blanket version of free speech, warning against “suicidal empathy”—over-accommodating rhetoric that ultimately harms society (24:30 - 33:08).
• The debate covers legal exceptions in the U.S. (incitement, harassment, coordination of crimes) and contrasts U.S. standards with stricter approaches abroad (25:54).

Quote:

“If they're not [in charge], and it's the people they want to censor that's in charge, they're going to censor them… that's why you need the blanket free speech.”
— Adam (31:09 – 31:34)

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8. Moral Absolutism vs. Relativism

• Extended discussion of Wilson’s arguments that societies require fixed moral foundations and that moral relativism (as championed by figures like Destiny) leads to cultural decay (34:24 – 37:20).
• Extreme examples (e.g. FGM, child abuse in foreign cultures) are cited to argue against “negotiated morality.”

Quote:

“He’s always like throwing that angle… cultures require fixed moral foundations… negotiating all of it destabilizes societies.”
— Adam (34:24, paraphrased)

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9. The Catholic Church, Historical Judgment, and Charity

• Wilson makes nuanced points about judging institutions like Catholicism over vast periods and contexts, noting their double role as source of both good and evil across history (39:08).
• The hosts find this perspective compelling even if they’re not defending the Church per se.

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10. Media Critique: Don Lemon Example

• The media segment highlights Wilson’s (and the hosts’) disdain for figures like Don Lemon and the performative nature of much activist journalism (42:29).

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11. Fan Reaction and Ratings

• The episode drew highly polarized reactions online, with supporters praising Wilson’s “clarity and confidence structure,” critics accusing him of “ideology over evidence,” and many wishing Rogan had pushed back harder (43:55 – 45:08).
• Adam rates the episode “7.5/10” by algorithm, but personally gives it “6.56,” noting he’s “slightly more pro Andrew Wilson” after the listen (46:00 – 46:19).
• Closing thought: “Certainty is persuasive, especially when the world feels unstable. Whether that certainty is earned is the real question.” (46:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wilson’s debate style:
  “He would just pick me apart if I ever tried to argue with him.” — Peter (08:50)
• On democracy as performance:
  “It's almost like voting offers some sort of psychological buy in more than real influence.” — Adam (16:13)
• On free speech:
  “The censorship bit only works for the people that want censorship—if they're in charge of the censorship… that's why you need the blanket free speech.” — Adam (31:09 – 31:34)
• On “suicidal empathy”:
  “You can be so compassionate towards a person or group to the detriment of all the other groups… that's happening in this case with the migrant crisis.” — Peter (31:48)
• On Catholicism:
  “If you are all the world’s or 90% of the world’s government at one point, then yeah, you’re to blame for 90% of everything bad… but also for 90% of all the good.” — Adam (40:12)
• On episode impact:
  “This episode is a reminder that certainty is persuasive, especially when the world feels unstable. Whether that certainty is earned is the real question.” — Adam (46:19)

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Key Timestamps

• Wilson/JRE Chemistry & Debate Style: 00:45 – 02:30
• Elites & Power Structures/Conspiracy: 03:04 – 06:11
• Immigration/Electoral Strategy: 07:05 – 08:41
• Wilson’s Viral Moments (Pickle Jar, OnlyFans): 09:16 – 11:13
• Democracy as Illusion: 13:26 – 16:13
• Media Hoaxes (Omar, Smollett): 19:48 – 22:51
• Free Speech & Censorship: 24:30 – 33:08
• Moral Absolutism vs. Relativism: 34:24 – 37:20
• Catholic Church History: 39:08 – 40:23
• Media Critique/Don Lemon: 42:29 – 43:38
• Fan Reactions & Wrap-up: 43:55 – 46:42

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Conclusion

Adam and Peter deliver a nuanced, entertaining, and sometimes irreverent analysis of Andrew Wilson’s impact on JRE #500. The episode is notable for its blend of social critique, meta-commentary on media and public discourse, and consistent push-pull between moral absolutes and skepticism towards institutional power. With memorable soundbites and heated listener engagement, the review serves as both a digest of key topics and a cultural snapshot of ongoing debates in Western society.

Transcript

[A]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way.

[B]

Think of us as the talking dead.

[A]

To Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one. One go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. I'm here with Peter, co host of the day, and we are reviewing Andrew Wilson, the commentator, political commentator and cultural critic, known for his very high confidence, rigid framework, and strong traditionalist worldview. He isn't exploratory in how he speaks. He argues from conclusions outward. His style is less. Less figure it out and more this is how the world works. He's very direct. He's particularly focused on power structures, hierarchy, moral order, and what he sees as the K of Western institutions. If you used to guess who hedge or qualify, Wilson does the opposite. He speaks in absolutes, which is a big reason this episode landed as polarizing as it did. And Joe, interestingly, doesn't meet him with equal force in this episode. Joe hosts this one more as a platform than as a challenger, which makes Wilson's certainty feel even louder. Don't you agree?

[B]

Maybe, a little bit. He definitely. I felt like he came up against him a little bit.

[A]

Yeah, a little bit. But it was, it was the middle.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Yep. But.

[B]

But they agree more than they disagree, I think.

[A]

For sure. I felt like he kind of let him run, but maybe I just felt that way because. Because Wilson, like, he's so often against somebody. Right. That I'm always used to hearing him, you know, debating and being challenged and having to be direct. That this one definite more. Just kind of two guys kind of mostly talking on the same team, just.

[B]

Kind of getting to know each other, basically. Yeah, it was a really good listen, actually. I liked listening to this one.

[A]

Yeah, I thought so. For sure. For sure. Yeah. A lot of talk about the elites power and who kind of really runs things, which is a lot of what's going on right now. I mean, if the Epstein list and all the explosion there isn't getting people talking about that, then I don't know what else is. I mean, the conspiracy theorists are running wild online. They're having a field day.

[B]

The world's our oyster right now.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

So much to run with. It's just crazy.

[A]

You can almost believe anything they.

[B]

Anyways.

[A]

Well, we can. No, we can get into that. Can we get into that? Well, yeah, I mean, they kind of did anyway. I mean, really, like, power is concentrated with the elites, and it's not distributed through democracy. And there's so much of. Do you see the stuff with Epstein that, like, ties him to, like, 4chan and potentially QAnon stuff? There's like a straight line that says he might have been Q. And the dots are, like, pretty good.

[B]

I mean, that QAnon stuff is pretty. You can kind of shape it to your own ends. You know, if you see something, it turns out if it's aliens, then you can walk that way.

[A]

Oh, it was aliens.

[B]

Well, you can just go whatever way you want with that.

[A]

Creative. Well, supposedly I had a meeting with, like, people that were very close to the networks that kind of set up the programs that got that all going.

[B]

Maybe he did bitcoin too. That's another one.

[A]

Oh, that is. That one's interesting.

[B]

He might have started bitcoin.

[A]

Is it just that we know so little about either of those that you can just kind of. It's like the. So many degrees of Kevin Bacon. Everyone could be connected.

[B]

Yeah, that's the same with the QAnon stuff. Exactly. It's lots of little tidbits here and there that can lead you down that. That rabbit hole.

[A]

So this is just me getting tricked again. Just easily tricked.

[B]

But you're not wrong until you get proven wrong.

[A]

Oh, I'm not saying I'm right either. I just heard a thing and just blathered it. I'm like, oh, interesting. Cool. That could be real then. I'm into it.

[B]

He's supposedly been in every room for every major decision in the last 30 years until his death. He was part of our immigration policy, part of our war strategy. What the heck?

[A]

Nosy bit.

[B]

Get out of there.

[A]

Get out of there.

[B]

That's not for you.

[A]

Get him out. Get.

[B]

Well, maybe he did get got out and he's dead. But also maybe he's not dead.

[A]

Ooh, that's a good one.

[B]

A lot of people say they saw him in Israel. Maybe he has some look alikes over there. It's possible, yeah.

[A]

I mean, you would think that he would do, like, he'd be good at hiding himself, or he'd do some plastic surgery or something. Can't they make you look different?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah, they make you look different. That would be the first thing he would do.

[B]

Grow a beard. Grow his curly hairs out.

[A]

Yeah. Change your nose.

[B]

You know, go where everyone looks like you. Yeah, something like that.

[A]

Get a tan.

[B]

Yeah, I think he can tan.

[A]

Tan it up.

[B]

He's just. He's Mediterranean.

[A]

Exactly. You would change some things.

[B]

The original island boy.

[A]

Shave a mohawk. Everyone's looking at your mohawk like, nice. It's very distracting.

[B]

How punk are you?

[A]

Get a face tattoo.

[B]

I would immediately get a face tattoo. A few teardrops.

[A]

You wouldn't put it together. Cause you'd be like, wow, he didn't have face tattoos, did he?

[B]

Can't be him working at a 7 11.

[A]

His 711 face tattoo. That's not Jeff. Is that Jeff Epps? Is that Jeff Epps?

[B]

Jeff Epstein. The financier.

[A]

The financier. Let's call Ghislaine. Yeah, let's get her on the phone. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Well, let's get into it. I mean, really, where do we even start? I mean, let's go with some of the ice stuff and what they were talking about. You know, obviously, I mean, Joe's big angle on the ice stuff really is. You know, he thinks overall that some of this is heavy handed. But he also agrees that, that too many people came in for sure, that was a problem. And that ultimately those people were let in to eventually make them citizens to change the voting structure.

[B]

And I think it's worked. In California, the Supreme Court just passed, allowed them to do their redistricting. So they redistricted, got a couple more seats, I think.

[A]

And. And it is that. Right. It's like the census is built on the amount of people, not the amount of citizens.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then you get seats for this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, you know, whether it was an active conspiracy or not, just de facto you bring in a bunch of people. It's gonna work that way. Right. And assuming if you make the assumption, right, statistically that they do likely vote one way or another, it's gonna benefit one party or another. Unless the average is that they vote 50, 50 for either party.

[B]

It's not gonna happen for the first generation. That might happen with their kids. And then later. Cause immigrants typically have a similar worldview as Republicans. They're generally more conservative people.

[A]

But maybe their kids aren't.

[B]

Well, first when you first get in, you're gonna reward the people that got you there. But then you might, you know, those Hispanic grandpas in LA are Republicans.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They tend to start voting along their true intentions. But first, like as far as the people in Dearborn, Michigan, from Syria or wherever they immigrate from, they Are conservative, but yet vote left because they're. That's who got them here and they want their family here.

[A]

Ah, I see. Well, at least that's the plan.

[B]

And that's what Andrew was saying.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[B]

Wicked smart. Kind of a. I would have a. He would just pick me apart if I ever tried to argue with him.

[A]

He kind of picks everyone apart, really. I mean, for the most part, Unless you have seen those few clips out there, which Pete did point out to me when I first brought up reviewing this podcast, and they are clips that I've seen. They were the only fans one. And then the one where he couldn't open the pickles.

[B]

I think they're all onlyfans girls, but one of them. He couldn't open the pickles.

[A]

There was another lady he was talking to where he was calling her a bitch that.

[B]

The sniz eater. He was saying.

[A]

Yeah, something because he.

[B]

Like, she brought up his wife.

[A]

It was. Yeah, he got. He got unnecessarily rude kind of guy. Felt like childish. A little childish.

[B]

He's like, nuh, nuh, you are.

[A]

Yeah, I know you.

[B]

You eat sniz, which is always a bonus in my book.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You can't take anything from anybody when you say that.

[A]

Yeah. The pickle one was great, though.

[B]

You got it all greasy.

[A]

Yeah. I almost feel like for all of the good things that we'll say about him in this episode, which we will, because I did think that he looked good on this episode and he got to kind of shine for his debating skills and he really got to show off, you know, his knowledge for the type of kind of political thinking that he had. And, you know, he has been standing out in that debate world for his kind of logic. And people don't like going up against him. I mean, Dave Smith got kind of wrecked by him recently. And Dave Smith is pretty good at this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's unusually good.

[B]

He likes to bring up objective truth.

[A]

Yeah. It'd be interesting to see him against Nick Fuentes. That would be interesting.

[B]

What would they even argue about?

[A]

Maybe he would be close to the same page.

[B]

A lot of high five.

[A]

There would be some things. There would be some things. Wilson's not quite as extreme.

[B]

Nick's not too agreeable. So they could probably disagree about this.

[A]

They'd find a way.

[B]

They'll find a way to argue.

[A]

They'd find a way. But I think. I think also I may put the pickle clip just. Just to balance out the positive.

[B]

Put the pickle clip up there.

[A]

It's too good. It's like, bro, you need to just back off and say, damn, I can't do this one.

[B]

This must be on here. Do you tighten it when you were doing it? Like something?

[A]

Well, look, he. I hate to say you don't go to the gym enough, dude. Your grip strength is not strong.

[B]

He's.

[A]

His Jiu Jitsu is probably weak.

[B]

Sorry to say it break his wrist.

[A]

His kettlebell work is probably lousy. I bet his arm wrestling isn't great.

[B]

He smokes too many more those marble reds and drinks too much whiskey.

[A]

Yeah, come on. He's being a man's man, though.

[B]

He was a gunsmith. That's pretty manly.

[A]

That's pretty sweet. And built. What did he say? Built robots, too.

[B]

I think he serviced automated manufacturing processes in factories for food. So, yeah, worked with robots.

[A]

Worked with robots. No.

[B]

Golly.

[A]

Robots don't look like. You would think that they look like. Don't tell me what I think robots look like.

[B]

They're not all sex robots.

[A]

And at the same time, I was just imagining only the Terminator. Yeah, that's all I.

[B]

So you work on the Terminator?

[A]

So you work on the Terminator. All of them, just red eyes walking around.

[B]

How'd you get the red eyes?

[A]

What are the red eyes about? Da da, da, da, da. All right, so he talks about democracy versus managed populations. And this is an interesting one. And this is something that I've been playing with for a while, because I'm wondering, and not to get too out there, but I'm wondering, is democracy really an illusion? They let us vote. We do vote. Is it all that real? Meaning even when they switch the government, you know, like, President goes Republican or Democrat or whoever we put in, it's like, well, the candidates themselves, it seems like we're picking them, but they kind of put the candidates they want in place for us. It's like. And we saw that with Hillary and Bernie. Like, people liked Bernie, but they still pushed him out and got Hillary in there. It's like, stuff like that. Those maneuverings are happening all the time.

[B]

Probably Jeff Epstein.

[A]

Yeah, Jeff. Oh, and then, you know, so now you're down to just the Republican Democrat. And then if you are a Democrat or Republican, you really don't have a choice at that point because you're either going with your party line, right? And so you vote your person in. And the industrial. The military industrial complex is gonna do whatever they're doing anyway. They don't really care.

[B]

Yeah, it's a machine.

[A]

Who the president is they just like, tell him, look, we really need to invade this country, and this is why. So if you can just be cool with it and just let us do it. Cause we're doing that.

[B]

We got a lot of bombs.

[A]

You can make some laws about, like, the schools, you know, or like, rattle on about abortion, but we gotta take these guys out. It's for national security.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And we can't tell you about the UFOs.

[B]

The what?

[A]

No, sh. Sorry, I shouldn't. I've said too much.

[B]

The reverse engineering that's going on.

[A]

So the big thing is. Is modern democracy largely symbolic?

[B]

It seems to be that way.

[A]

And what does that leave us with?

[B]

We live in a oligarchy. We live in a capitalistic oligarchy, basically.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Ruled by rich elite pedophiles, as it turns out.

[A]

A lot of them seem like they might be.

[B]

What's that about? I think the honest people in our government. I think we've. Joe's had him on. I'm pretty sure Bernie was. Is one.

[A]

Bernie's solid.

[B]

Then there's Ron Paul. Rand Paul.

[A]

I like Rand. Yeah.

[B]

He seemed like really, there's a. Two separate sides of the aisle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'd vote for either one of those guys.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then I guess I like Tulsi. Tulsi.

[A]

Hot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God bless you. And smart. I don't want to just throw hot and be like, that's the only thing. She's a complete pack.

[B]

She's got a. She's a hottie with the body. She's a brain.

[A]

She's a wonderful lady. I'd vote for.

[B]

And also Massie, I think. I think he's a true, genuine patriot as well.

[A]

There's some good ones out there. Yeah. And, you know, there's probably more good ones than we even give credit for as well. I do have hope, but it's hard to shine.

[B]

Well, they are also told where to and how to vote. So even if you are good and you still vote along party lines, say like when they were trying to ban. Establish legal minimums for cp, child sex abuse stuff.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It was all voted down. And the Democrats, they all voted against it. So there's got to be some good ones. But why are they voting that way? You're doing bad stuff. Yeah.

[A]

That's not good. What's going on there?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Come on. Come on, guys. Yeah.

[B]

So it's an illusion. We just vote for the same. We vote for the same coin. It's just two sides of the same coin.

[A]

Yeah, it's Almost like voting offers some sort of psychological buy in. More than like real influence, if that makes sense. It's like, oh, I feel like I'm doing something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's almost like when my 2 year old daughter is like in the kitchen and wants to help and I'm like, yeah, just, you know, here you go. I crack an egg in a bowl and like let her mix it with a little fork before I make breakfast. But all it does is like slow the whole process down. Her mixing is to be fair and no offense to her. Subpar, subpar.

[B]

Mixer subpar.

[A]

I mean, you gotta get a good whisk in to get a solid scramble ready.

[B]

Whip that thing into soft peaks.

[A]

And one and three quarters. He just doesn't have the wrist strength. No, he's mostly just splashing it all over.

[B]

She's getting there, doing the right thing. Get her in there early.

[A]

And that's it. You come in and vote. And the politicians are like, round of applause. Oh, thanks for coming. Your vote counts. All the votes count.

[B]

We start to notice stuff and they're like, what about the immigrants? And then people get crazy. What about the trans rights? People just lose their mind while they're passing these laws, invading Greenland, giving 8 billion to companies.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And countries.

[A]

And again, they can brush it off as like, oh no, that's just conspiracy. And don't worry about that, the voting's real.

[B]

And you know, don't get me started about Minnesota. Those guys up there, I think they're doing exactly what we're talking about. With the influx of their voting populace, the census, patterning the numbers, keeping that mayor in there. I don't like him.

[A]

Yo. You don't like him?

[B]

I like that guy.

[A]

I don't think the can't dance that he can't dance. I don't think that police chief likes him much either. Keeps throwing that police chief under the bus. He's like, we're gonna fight the ice. And the police chief is like, we're gonna what? It's like in the background, just they got. Pulling his.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Collar.

[B]

It's hot in here.

[A]

Do I have any PTO left? Going on vacation.

[B]

He should just retire.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know what's going on. And then waltz. Of course. Typical. It's in his state and it's like.

[B]

Crazy assassinations going on have been. Have happened over there. That lady who's voting against free health care for immigrants, refugees for life, she voted against that one Democrat in his state and then two weeks later she was gunned down. By that guy in the Walter White mask. Turns out to be a waltz guy.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Do you remember that?

[A]

Oh, they drove the cop car.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now, what was the deal with him? They got him, right?

[B]

It seemed like a very professional hit.

[A]

It seems pretty professional.

[B]

I don't think it was the guy that they got. It was a patsy really. They took the fall. Cause this guy, like, did everything right. He went out the back. He like army crawled. He just disappeared. And then they. Then they see him later with like a big cowboy hat on. And it was very interesting.

[A]

They love those patsies, don't they? They're easy to get.

[B]

I don't know how they get them to fall to. To take the fall.

[A]

I think you just get. You just get people that are like, easily persuadable and maybe like super gullible with like, probably like average to lower than average IQs, but high loyalty. Yeah. Or just like, they just crumble, you know?

[B]

Did you see like the syringe attack on Ilhan Omar?

[A]

No, what was that?

[B]

At a town hall, she was squirted with a mysterious substance. So it was if it could have been acid or, you know, anything, but she just kept her clothes on and hugged her constituencies after the thing. And it was turned out to be apple cider vinegar. And the guy that did it, they didn't scrub the Internet from all his affiliations with her. He was on her payroll. He'd been paid. I don't know, maybe we fact. Check me if you can.

[A]

So what, the whole thing was just a stunt? It's a stunt for a bunch of.

[B]

Attention because she's going down for that $5 million winery that doesn't exist. Oh, that's worth 5 million. But there's no bottles, no inventory.

[A]

But what did she want to get out of that fake attack? A bunch of sympathy obfuscation?

[B]

Just look over here. Don't look. See, it's maga. That's the evil people.

[A]

Oh, that's pretty smart politics.

[B]

I'm ruined. I can believe nothing. Well, either side is just lying to me.

[A]

Apple cider vinegar, though, just use some actual like car acid.

[B]

Do bleach. That's like battery acid. It wouldn't do anything to skin. Really, battery acid does nothing.

[A]

It'll like, burn the coat. It looked cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At least get a bit of an effect and then be like, ah, take your coat off real fast.

[B]

Hazmat cleared the building. They treated it like a dangerous substance. But she didn't. She was like. Kept her clothes on.

[A]

She's like, look how brave I Am hugging people. I'm an American hero.

[B]

What a true American.

[A]

Yeah. That is so lame.

[B]

It was lame.

[A]

What a lame plan. All those plans fall apart, fall apart. Who was that actor? Remember pretended he got beat up in New York?

[B]

Jesse Smollett.

[A]

He had a noose around his neck and his Subway sandwich.

[B]

Two Nigerians.

[A]

It was all MAGA or something.

[B]

Chappelle has an awesome bit about that. He's just imagining two Nigerians attacking him and he's like, this is MAGA country.

[A]

What a terrible plan. It's like you don't get enough attention as it is, Mr. Hollywood, that you go and do that. Yeah.

[B]

He was on top of the world.

[A]

At that point, Right. What did he think he was gonna gain from it? He was gonna be like the political savior somehow.

[B]

Just me, me, me, me, me, me. Energy, pick me.

[A]

Unreal.

[B]

I'm the victim.

[A]

Well, at least come up with a better plan. None of those plans work. What do you think that they don't have, like, actual investigators that can do decent jobs?

[B]

Any plan that relies on someone keeping silent that's not a professional is doomed to fail.

[A]

Yeah, that one. That's dog shit plan. That's how far it's done.

[B]

He's. He's been.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Since then, nobody.

[B]

But.

[A]

But now come back.

[B]

Now they're using that as an. As a. A term for people that smell at themselves. Like, they. They play the victim and they get caught.

[A]

Oh, they smell that. He has his own urban dictionary.

[B]

Yeah, there was. There was another one. Oh, I can't recall the details, but it's. It's happening pretty frequently. Like the lady who, like, found a noose on her desk, and then the FBI tested it for DNA because they went that high. They tested it for DNA and she had tied it herself. They always tie him incorrectly.

[A]

But yeah, I mean, they're hard to do. A lot of round around.

[B]

People don't know knots anymore. We're losing our skills, aren't we?

[A]

Losing our skills?

[B]

I'm going on about. I'm going off rails here.

[A]

No, no, it's true. It is true. On. On. Knot skills are terrible.

[B]

Mine are. Okay.

[A]

All right, show off. Show off. Free speech and censorship. That's a big one. These guys are obviously big free speech guys. I mean, they talk for a living, so they have to be. And, you know, there is a bit of a fight and a battle for that now, and there has been for some time. Seems like free speech is pulled ahead. It's come back. I mean, Trump was a big part of that. Things really changed for all the things that people are very upset about Trump, you know, with Trump about now and, you know, all the promises that were under delivered after he came into office. And I get it. But one thing's for sure is he did really flip around the DEI stuff, and free speech came rocketing back.

[B]

Well, I think it's still under attack.

[A]

Oh, it still is. It always will be. There's always people that want to control what we're saying.

[B]

We have jailed now. We have set the precedent of jailing people for their tweets here in the United States. There's been two, I think, that have.

[A]

Been in the U.S. yeah. What are they jailed? What's an illegal tweet?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know exactly, but they shot one old guy for a tweet maybe three, four years ago.

[A]

They shot somebody.

[B]

Yeah, he. Maybe he was maybe a little like, he was kind of inflammatory, maybe on the edge of free speech. Like, you can't threaten anybody. You can't call for violence to people. He may have been doing that, but they showed up to his house, raided it, he wouldn't come out, and they ended up killing him.

[A]

Well, free speech doesn't cover if you, like, incite violence. I think if you're like, I'm going to kill this person.

[B]

The Miami mayor sent his detectives, some detectives to his opponent's house because she was. The mayor of Miami is a fan of Israel, and his opponent or another politician over there had mentioned that he was for the alleged genocide in Gaza.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they went to her house and was like, is this you? And they have been doing that. Oh, so we are on the verge here.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Australia is real bad for that, and England has been getting pretty bad for that. I don't know what the rest of Europe's like, but I'm pretty sure they're quite strict. Germany's pretty strict, from what I understand. So I'm reading here the First Amendment strongly protects free speech, but what's unprotected is true threats. So, you know, naming a target or a time or a method and then inciting. Oh, incitement to immediate violence. That one makes sense. Encouraging people to commit violence right now. Right. In a way likely to happen.

[B]

I've seen that on TikTok. The people of Minnesota are like, don't just protest, riot. Don't just push a cop. Kill a cop.

[A]

They should be arrested.

[B]

They're saying that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, that's not protected by the First Amendment from what I understand here. Yeah, Another one. Harassment or stalking.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Can't do that. Okay, so don't tweet about that. That's not protected. Next up, conspiracy or coordination of crimes. Using Twitter or X to plan, coordinate, or encourage criminal acts.

[B]

What about those signal chats that their people are having that are coordinating? And there are riots up in Minnesota. They're not peacefully protesting.

[A]

Yeah, well, technically they're private. So I think because they're private, that's different.

[B]

A little harder to get the true details.

[A]

Well, I don't think it's illegal to text people things that aren't covered by the First Amendment. Oh, so instead of posting, post it to social. It is. Because that's the same as saying it out loud. First Amendment is like, it's protected speech. Speech, therefore is like not private conversation. You know, that makes sense, actually, you know, assuming. What else? False reports or hoaxes?

[B]

That's illegal.

[A]

Yes. Can't make false reports.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Whoops. Do we need to delete your Twitter?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then witness intimidation or obstruction of justice standing in the way of the police.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

With a tweet. Printing out your tweets, putting them on a giant billboard, and then putting that billboard in the way of a police officer's car. Maybe that's a bad example.

[B]

Right to jail.

[A]

Right to jail. Get them to jail. Get them to jail. Lock them up. Right to jail. Lock them up. Straight to jail.

[B]

Believe it or not. Right to jail.

[A]

Right to jail. So, yeah, that's kind of, you know, the things that you wouldn't be covered for in the United States. And, you know, that makes sense. Those things are solid and it should be that way. I think support how the First Amendment is written. And, you know, it's worked for a long time. I think it's a good rule of thumb. It's worked through multiple, multiple generations, different times. And things have changed and societies have changed and there we go. Everything kind of functions that way. And there is still some messy language.

[B]

And it's not perfect. Who is it? The nothing is. What's that? What's that? The ACL or the free speech advocates. I forget the name of those people.

[A]

Naacp.

[B]

Yes. They protected Nazis rights to riot or not riot, but march right back in like the 70s, 60s maybe.

[A]

And they hated the Nazis and.

[B]

Yeah, because they're, you know, black and they're, they're, they love the marginalized.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They, but they protected their rights to do that.

[A]

But they, they.

[B]

But now they are fighting against that kind of stuff. They are kind of turning into anti free speech advocates.

[A]

Right. Because things have changed. You Know, things change, people's ideas, not always for the better. Protecting.

[B]

Yeah, we have to protect the worst speech. So all speech will be allowed.

[A]

Yes. And that's a little bit of what's missing. So I think Wilson's point to that is, yes, that's the argument and that's why it's such a difficult argument. Because the people that are against it, like any speech that is hateful should stop. And it's kind of hard to argue that because you're like, yes, hateful speech hurts people's feelings. That should stop. There we go, everything's good now. Well then you've got the people that are fighting for free speech and they're saying, no, we should be able to say anything because then it allows for freedoms. And then yes, there will also be bad speech, but it's something that we just allow so that the freedoms can exist and we just have to tolerate some of these bad speaking moments. And the argument against that is like.

[B]

Why also who decides what's bad?

[A]

That's also the point too.

[B]

And you get into that because they want their guys to decide. They want their guys, the other people want their guys to decide.

[A]

The censorship bit only works for the people that want censorship. If they're in charge of the censorship.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

If they're not, and it's the people they want to censor that's in charge, they're going to censor them. And now they don't want to say, you know, that's why it's bullshit.

[B]

That's why you need the blanket free speech.

[A]

That's why it doesn't work. Because it's one group telling another group, you can't say this. And that's not how it works.

[B]

That kind of segues into Andrew's talking about, what is it called? Suicidal empathy.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Remember that bit?

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Where you can be so compassionate towards a person or a group to the detriment of all the other groups. And that kind of seems like it's happening in this case with the migrant crisis.

[A]

Yeah. Give an example of that.

[B]

For instance. If 10 million people came over here and that's a low number, 8% are speculated to be violent criminals. 8% of 10 million is quite a bit.

[A]

80,000.

[B]

Those people can do irreparable damage to our society.

[A]

It's a lot of people.

[B]

It's important to have some hard rules, like the free speech thing where we just say, you got to come over here legally, we need to know where you are.

[A]

Think about it. That would be like over 15,000 people per state. If we spread them out.

[B]

Yeah. Or a very middle sized city of psychopaths. Because most of the violent crime is done by people that are on the psychopathic path, that spectrum. And they ruin it for a lot of us. So that's a huge number. So that's suicidal empathy. Letting people flood in without checking them is just by fact bad.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you look at that. If you look at it like that, they went into that quite a bit.

[A]

Yeah. And that is. I mean, that's a massive problem to put together and people don't want to look at that. You know, I mean, it is one of those things and tracking those problematic people is super important and it's hard to do.

[B]

I'm still trying to get you deported. What? I didn't mean to say that.

[A]

I'm here to stay. I'm here to stay.

[B]

You had your anchor baby and you're sticking around.

[A]

I put my work in. Okay. I came back the right way.

[B]

Yes, you did.

[A]

I did it wrong and then I did it right later.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I was young before. Hurt my feelings.

[B]

Well, you did it like many do with their parents.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So let's just make sure we crack down on the. But. Mm. Do the Rand Paul way. I like his method.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's right. He liked. It's like if you're working, if you're.

[B]

Working, you're not criminal.

[A]

Come on, let's.

[B]

Let's let you hang. Your children can be citizens potentially, but you. Sorry. You can work and pay taxes and be protected, but you're still green card holder.

[A]

A big part of a lot of his arguments are like the kind of cultures require fixed moral foundations. Like, he's always like throwing that angle out as like a base. And then, you know, he talks to people like Destiny, who he hates. I can't remember that nickname he had for Destiny. Oh, I forgot. Joe hadn't heard of it either. But it was like something like a muffin or I don't know. Yeah, he just thinks he's like heathen. Just like.

[B]

Yeah. He would collapse our government and our nation if he could.

[A]

Right. And you know, that's kind of how he looks at him. He's like, that's moral decay behavior.

[B]

Like suicidal empathy.

[A]

Sure. And it's like it just doesn't work. Like you have to have this, like.

[B]

You know, objective truth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are some stuff. There are things that are true. And he argues that pretty eloquently.

[A]

Right. It's like moral relativism versus moral absolutes. And he's like, moral relativism destabilizes societies. Like, he just sees it like that almost.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, well, we need to protect all people's religions. But what if your religion practices female genital mutilation on a regular basis? Yeah, that's pretty much. We gotta protect the children. Mm.

[A]

Well, they talk about that tribe in Africa, and, you know, it's like. Or wherever that tribe is, where they, you know, molest the young boys.

[B]

Oh, New guinea, right? Papua New Guinea, I think.

[A]

And, you know, they're like, well, that's a different culture. We just have to respect these different cultures. And he's like, no, that's wrong.

[B]

It's just wrong. Right?

[A]

We're not doing that. That's not cool. We gotta teach them something else. And, you know, people can have a lot to say about Western cultures just moving into places and saying, we don't like the way you do things. We're gonna change it. But this is how he sees it. He's just like, no, I don't feel it should go like this.

[B]

That one's pretty hard to argue against.

[A]

That one is. That's an extreme case. And, yeah, I think when you use those kind of extreme examples, though, I mean, you're really making a heavy point too. It's like, well, there you go. This is kind of what I'm talking about. And.

[B]

Yeah, should we. I mean.

[A]

But that's what he's saying. He's saying kind of like negotiated morality leads to decay. And I guess there's. I guess there's some balance there on how negotiated it is. But, you know, you take someone like Destiny, and he's negotiating all of it. He's like, no, let's have, you know, open relationships. And, you know, my girlfriend can sleep with five guys, and I'll be okay with it. And, yeah, sure, destiny. All of that worked out great for you.

[B]

Is that what happened with.

[A]

Oh, terrible. It was, like, a lot of, like, cuck behavior and just an absolute mess and then some. I can't remember if he was married or not, but it was just, like, this weird divorce or breakup and just disaster. All of it was just horrible. And, you know, there's a part of me that felt for the guy. I was like, that must have sucked.

[B]

Oh, I remember this now. Yeah, that must have sucked. I remember that controversy.

[A]

I'm like, maybe don't do any of that.

[B]

Opened up the relationship, only she was getting laid, and then he just had to watch.

[A]

Yeah, she was, like, constantly banging some Spanish dude for this whole vacation. He's just like playing with a Rubik's cube in the corner.

[B]

He, you know, he's a part of the spectrum on how not to do it. Don't do that.

[A]

Don't do that. That's not the way to do it.

[B]

It seems like anytime you open up a relationship, it just destroys it.

[A]

Yeah, there's probably good, like, reason why that would happen.

[B]

I mean, probably accurate from the caveman days we had. This stuff is human stuff. It's not societal.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Pick one and stick with her or him or them, for sure.

[A]

Whoa. What did you think about. I found this interesting when they talked about Catholicism and, like, how we, like, people often blame Catholicism for things, and they're just like, oh, yeah, well, there's rape in the church. Or like, oh, Catholicism did this. And he's like, you can't. It's not, like, reasonable to judge Catholicism or the church when it spanned such a vast of space and time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Countries and, like, all these nations, all these countries, you know, like laws and nations and spanned over time. And then all of a sudden, you judge it on all of these things that it's done while it basically oversaw the creation of a big part of the. How society works today. In a lot of ways, it was a government, especially Europe.

[B]

It was a government, it was a religion, it was a warring machine.

[A]

I found that quite interesting, though, because that actually is quite compelling. And I'm not here sticking up for Catholicism, believe me, but that is actually quite reasonable in a sense. It's like, yeah, if you are all of the world's or 90% of the world's government at one point or ruling body, then, yeah, you're to blame for 90% of everything bad that's happening because you're doing it all. Yeah, but then you're also 90% of all the good. You're 90% of all of the things.

[B]

You're all of it. They still do the most charity work successfully. And you give to a certain Catholic charity, you pretty much know that it's going to the destination. It's not going to go in somebody's pocket.

[A]

Okay, maybe, Maybe so.

[B]

It's not like, yeah, I was my.

[A]

That was just an interesting point. I never looked at it like that. You know, it's like, of course they had the Spanish Inquisition. Are we still holding that against them? Maybe we should. This guys were rough.

[B]

It was pretty bad.

[A]

That was not a good time.

[B]

I was listening to some thing about their torture tactics and tickling. I can't believe that we did that.

[A]

To each other. That's unbelievable.

[B]

Dude. Stuff we did.

[A]

If there is. If anything you could imagine in the way of torture, like, just. If he sat there and just imagined something horrible, we in the past probably invented and tried it and perfected it and made it. Yeah. There was a time where people really thought hard about these sorts of things. That is horrific to think about. It was like an industry. There was an R and D program for this, and they did that to people.

[B]

Yeah. No culture is free of that, though. No religion is free of that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

No state is free of that.

[A]

You ever see the Monty Python where they have the Spanish Inquisition? No. And they like. But they make them. It's not torture. It's, like, nice. They make them sit on comfy chairs and give them pillows and make them tea. And then it's like a little old lady and they're like, ah, what do you think now? And they're like, oh, it's quite nice.

[B]

Have to look at that.

[A]

Yes, it's great. I'll put that. I'll put a link to that actually, in the bio as well. That and the pickle opening will be the two kind of unrelated and unnecessary links that will come with this podcast. But overall, I think that Wilson was pretty solid on this. I'm trying to think, what else did they go over? They went over some media stuff and, like, how the media is just kind of bullshit. Don Lemon showing up to the ICE protest and being, like, giving Starbucks out to everyone and being like, why is ICE parked over there when he was parked in the middle of the street? Don Lemon's an idiot. He literally is a Lemon. He's a people.

[B]

Do over. Mulligan. Yeah, do that one over. He's hilarious. I saw him arguing with a Mexican citizen immigrant legal lady who is against all this going on. She's four ICE or for the. Protecting our borders. And he just could not argue. She was like, it's a crime. Right? He's like, it's not a crime. It's a misdemeanor. He's literally not smart.

[A]

He's pretty dumb. If he doesn't have a teleprompter or someone writing his stories, it's really bad. Imagine how easily Andrew Wilson would tear him to pieces in a debate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it would be just ridiculous.

[B]

He'll be in court on Friday. I think for that, they're bringing charges against him for going to that church and kind of embedding with that mob.

[A]

Who?

[B]

Don Lemon.

[A]

Is that true? Yeah.

[B]

Oh, this week. I think he's Facing his arraignment because they arrested him for going there in Los Angeles. They arrested him.

[A]

Oh, well, there you go. What a dumbass.

[B]

He'll probably avoid all repercussions.

[A]

He probably will. He's probably got good connects.

[B]

He's rich and has lawyers and stuff.

[A]

Yeah, no doubt. But anyway. Yep, it was solid. Let's jump over to the online fan reaction. This one. One of the most polling polarizing comment sections I've seen in a long time.

[B]

They're all over the place.

[A]

I mean, it was. Yeah, people. I mean, people have a lot of feelings towards Andrew in general. You know, love him or hate him. He's too abrasive. He's like straight in your face.

[B]

He is.

[A]

Even if you like some like mostly his politics, just the way he goes about it. He's not in it to make friends. And then he's always smoking, which I think pisses people off too. I can't say just in general. Yeah. You're on a podcast headache. Can't you wait till the end of the podcast? He's all stressed out smoking Marlboro arguing. Though on the positive end, supporters praise the clarity, the confidence structure. Critics accuse Wilson of ideology over evidence, which, you know, bit of that's true. Repeated calls for Joe to have pushed harder. And that's what I noticed. Kind of reasonable and. Yeah. And some of the comments of the week. You don't have to agree to learn something. Confidence isn't the same as truth. Interesting. Joe. Letting him talk is the whole point. I kind of like that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like just. That's why you have him on. Let him talk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this felt like a sermon, not a conversation. That's.

[B]

I don't know if I agree with that.

[A]

Maybe an anti religious person that as soon as anyone mentions God, even once the non religious people get pretty upset. They triggered overall rating for this, ran it through the algorithm, gave it a 7.5 out of 10. I'm giving this a 6.56. But I. But I was interested, you know, and I. And I think I'm slightly more pro Andrew Wilson. I thought he was a bit of. I don't know what I thought of him before this pod. I seen him debate a few times. I knew he was pretty good at it. I did see the pickle thing, which didn't play well with me.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

It was hilarious.

[B]

Not how I'd have done it.

[A]

Didn't play well. And he's picked up a few points and I like some of his logic. I like the way that he thought through some things and broke it down. And anyone that makes fun of Don Lemon, solid with me. So a couple of points.

[B]

He's a W for you.

[A]

Yep. And yeah, I mean, this episode is a reminder that certainty is persuasive, especially when the world feels unstable. Whether that certainty is earned is the real question. That's kind of my overall takeaway. Any last words on this one, Pete?

[B]

Not particularly. I am kind of right there with you. He's this episode kind of let me know more about him. I got to get inside his head a little bit more.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Not just being railed against by people.

[A]

There you go. And on that note, thank you all for listening. We appreciate it. And stay tuned for more later.