503 JRE Review of Raul Bilecky

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 503: JRE Review of Raul Bilecky (JRE #2449)
Release Date: February 14, 2026
Hosts: Adam Thorne & Peter

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Overview

In this episode, Adam and Peter dive deep into Joe Rogan’s conversation with independent explorer Raul Bilecky (JRE #2449), whose fieldwork in Peru’s remote archaeological zones has sparked both awe and controversy. Themes include ancient megalithic structures, rampant looting, cultural heritage, the interplay of mainstream and fringe archaeology, and buzzy topics like the alien mummies. The hosts riff on Rogan’s enthusiasm and Bilecky’s hands-on discoveries, unpacking fan-favorite mystery topics and the urgent threats facing unstudied ancient sites.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Raul Bilecky's Unique Perspective

• Bilecky’s Background: Solo explorer, half Peruvian, driven by personal and cultural connection to the land. Introduced to ancient mysteries by finding seashells at Machu Picchu as a child.
  • "Finding seashells at Machu Picchu started this off for him." – Peter (06:16)
• Episode’s Vibe: “Field heavy,” with emphasis on boots-on-the-ground discovery and documentation of massive stone ruins far from tourist trails.
• Rogan’s Rapport: Joe is openly a fan—predicts Bilecky will return as a guest. (02:11–02:27)

2. Looting Crisis: Devastation & Black Market Economics

• Prevalence: Extensive looting across vast areas. “Total destruction for one area. Eight square kilometers.” – Peter (03:44)
• Scene Descriptions: Excavation sites littered with trash, ancient pottery swapped for Coke bottles and candy wrappers.
  • "Just chicle wrappers and Marlboro Reds." – Peter (04:00)
  • “It kind of reminds me when Indiana Jones swapped out the solid gold head for the little bag of sand, but just not quite as good.” – Adam Thorne (04:10)
• Human Cost: Disarticulated bodies, bones left exposed.
• Private Collectors: Priceless artifacts and elongated skulls siphoned to buyers, draining the heritage from public knowledge (08:26–08:54).
• Authorities Overwhelmed: Peruvian government agencies underfunded, unable to secure or preserve sites (10:28–10:43).

3. Exploration, Documentation, & Big Stone Mysteries

• Frontier Spirit: Large swaths of Peru remain unexplored; Bilecky claims to find new structures with each visit.
  • “To think that, like, most places have been discovered... No, it hasn’t.” – Adam Thorne (05:14–05:29)
• Stone Platforms & Megaliths: Discussion of vast, precisely placed blocks—debate over whether they were carved from or placed into the earth (12:03–12:15).
• Modern Tech: Reference to SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) imaging—potential to revolutionize mapping (13:20–13:44).

4. Academic Tensions vs. Independent Approaches

• Mainstream Resistance: Hesitance of academic gatekeepers to accept findings from outsiders like Bilecky and Hancock, rigid timelines (29:26–30:43).
  • “My hope is that… the lines between [academic and independent] start to meld and blend.” – Adam Thorne (29:40)
• Limitations: Reliance on written records/bias in texts (30:43–31:37).
• Debated Claims: Some pushback in the episode on speculative leaps, especially absent peer-reviewed data (42:13–42:22).

5. High-Profile Mysteries: Alien Mummies, Elongated Skulls, & Ancient Tech

• Peru Alien Mummies: Bilecky debunks viral videos and claims—repeated forgeries that improve with each cycle.
  • “As soon as he started explaining it to me, I was like, ah, shit, they’re fake. We were bamboozled.” – Adam (18:21)
• Elongated Skulls: Genuine finds, cultural head binding, but at least one example lacks typical cranial sutures and has unusual proportions.
  • “It looked like you could have two brains in there.” – Peter (21:16)
• Quipu (Knotted String System): Still undeciphered—potential for AI to crack ancient codes.
• Destroyed Records: Spanish conquest wiped out codices, irreplaceable context lost (25:15–25:38).
• DNA Surprises: Some skulls show European ancestry (Baltic, Turkey)—surprising evidence of prehistoric contact (32:10–32:18).

6. Ancient Migration & Population Collapse

• Travel & Survival Skills: Early populations potentially far more mobile than usually depicted—coast hoppers reach South America, evidence in Chile (34:02).
• Disease & Collapse: Conquest-era pathogens decimate native populations faster than armies (27:07–27:51).
• Child Sacrifice: Some mummies in the Andes are ritual sacrifices, preserved on mountaintop ledges (28:21–28:40).

7. Rogan Humor & Podcast Banter

• References to “Indiana Jones”; daydreaming about joining expeditions; riffs on movie logic of swinging on whips (04:10–04:48, 11:16–11:40).
• “Run for President” tangent: Joe’s fantasy of gaining access to all ancient secrets and alien evidence by holding office—comedic asides about spin-kicking his chief of staff (16:36–17:27).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Most of history gets erased. Washed away, blown away, stolen, melted down, sunk, chipped to little blocks, hit with an asteroid.”
  – Adam Thorne (02:31)
• On Alien Mummy Hoaxes:
  “Basically like they’re reverse engineering how to fake it.”
  – Adam Thorne (19:17)
• On Academic Resistance:
  “If you can’t get an archeologist to peer review it, then how will it be peer reviewed? They’re so close minded.”
  – Peter (42:22)
• Practical Preservation:
  “The loud debate is about timelines. The quiet crisis is about looting.”
  – Adam Thorne (43:09)
• Summing Up the Episode:
  “Strong visual curiosity and meaningful preservation urgency. Slight reduction for speculative leaps that rely on inference rather than formal excavation data.”
  – Adam Thorne (42:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:59 – Episode focus summary, intro to Raul Bilecky
• 03:44 – Impact and scale of site looting
• 06:16 – Bilecky’s motivation, seashells at Machu Picchu
• 10:28 – Peruvian authorities overwhelmed by site protection
• 12:03 – Debate on massive stone platform construction methods
• 13:20 – SAR imaging, need for modern technology
• 16:36 – Rogan’s “run for President” fantasy for access to ancient secrets
• 18:21 – Alien mummy forgeries dismantled
• 21:16 – Elongated skulls: anomalous finds with potential European DNA
• 25:15 – Spanish destruction of native codices
• 27:07 – Disease and demographic collapse after conquest
• 28:21 – Child sacrifice mummies
• 29:26 – Academic vs. independent exploration
• 32:10 – Surprising ancient DNA results
• 34:02 – Early coastal migration to South America
• 43:09 – Preservation urgency vs. timeline debates
• 43:56 – Hosts urge for more documentation using modern tech

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Reviewers' Takeaways & Reflections

• Emotional Impact: Hosts express sadness and frustration over the ongoing destruction of sites—each looted artifact is a lost insight.
• Inspiration: Both Adam and Peter consider launching their own field explorations of American megaliths, inspired by Bilecky’s enthusiasm.
• Skepticism & Wonder: Alien claims debunked, but authentic mysteries remain. The episode leaves listeners both grounded and awed by deep history still at risk.
• Final Message: Preservation is paramount—the fight over timelines could be moot if the sites themselves are erased.

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Episode Rating (Fan/AI Aggregate)

8.1 / 10
High marks for excitement, visuals, and preservation urgency. Slight markdown for reliance on speculation in absence of major academic corroboration.

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For Further Listening / Exploration

• Books Mentioned:
  • 1491 by Charles Mann
  • Lost City of the Monkey God
• Sites Cited:
  • Sage Wall (Montana)
  • Machu Picchu, Gobekli Tepe, Derinkuyu (Turkey), Cappadocia
  • Unnamed Peruvian and U.S. archaeological mysteries

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Closing Thoughts

If you’re captivated by ancient mysteries, hands-on exploration, or the constant battle over our understanding of the past, this review (like the JRE episode it covers) highlights why the stakes are real: history is being erased as we debate it. Tune in for a blend of skepticism, reverence, humor, and a call-to-action to see the wonders before they’re gone.

"Whatever history ultimately says, the material record is being damaged in real time. There are changes. The loud debate is about timelines. The quiet crisis is about looting."
– Adam Thorne (43:09)

Transcript

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[Adam Thorne]

Wayfair. Every style, every home. You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your hosts, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys. And welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. This week I am joined by Peter, ready with some more ancient civilization discovery stuff. He loves these, don't you, Pete?

[Peter]

I do. They're the best ones. I think a lot of people love them.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh yeah? Well, the alien ones are up there.

[Peter]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You combine aliens and ancient ruins, man, what an episode.

[Peter]

There was a bit of that in this one. Little mummies.

[Adam Thorne]

I think so. I think so. This is episode 2449 review of the Joe Rogan Experience. Raul Billecky.

[Peter]

Billakey.

[Adam Thorne]

Billakey. We're not sure.

[Peter]

Biolki.

[Adam Thorne]

I forget how to say it, but great guy, interesting dude. Rogan seems to be a big fan. They were getting on like house on fire. I would say.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Adam Thorne]

I think he's going to be back on. He was a good guest.

[Peter]

It's crazy. He does it all by himself. Wild drones.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. Yeah, he's out there. It was a field heavy episode focused on Peru's remote archaeological sites. Large stone structures, looting, preservation and the tension between independent explorers and academic institutions. As Always the conversation moves between boots on the ground, documentation, viral anomalies like the Peru, alien mummies, and broader questions about how history gets recorded or erased. A lot less erased. I mean, look, most of history gets erased. Washed away, blown away, stolen, melted down, sunk, chipped to little blocks, hit with an asteroid.

[Peter]

What else? Gobbled up. Gobbled up. Yep.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. That's all of them.

[Peter]

Hit with a stick.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe that's a spm. That's on the list. Yeah, that's on the list. But yeah, let's start with a looting. That one was, I don't want to say a shock. I mean, obviously it's happening, but in that area it seemed. It seemed quite prevalent.

[Peter]

Yeah. Kind of like total, total destruction for one area. Eight square kilometers.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. Took it all.

[Peter]

It's. It's there. He mentions this over and over, but it's sad because it's human bodies.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Just ripped apart and then trash everywhere. All through the excavation sites.

[Peter]

Just chicle wrappers and Marlboro Reds.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they just take, you know, ancient priceless pottery and they're like, there you go, Coke bottle.

[Peter]

How about that?

[Adam Thorne]

Good trade off. It kind of reminds me when Indiana Jones swapped out the solid gold head for the little bag of sand, but just not quite as good.

[Peter]

Yeah. Even that was weighed correctly, they think he's kind of eyeballed that whole thing, didn't he? He's a scoop of sand in a bag.

[Adam Thorne]

That wouldn't make any sense. Gold is way heavier than sand. What was it hollow?

[Peter]

Could be. Nah, not back then.

[Adam Thorne]

Even as a little kid, I was like, I'm pretty sure gold is heavier.

[Peter]

That was probably a pre ink in culture too, that they were looking at.

[Adam Thorne]

That's right. Yeah.

[Peter]

What a movie.

[Adam Thorne]

So good. It holds up too.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

The first Indiana Jones is brilliant. I mean, they're all good.

[Peter]

Throw me the idol.

[Adam Thorne]

So good.

[Peter]

Rubber, the whip.

[Adam Thorne]

And he runs off. That naughty man.

[Peter]

Alfred Molina, what an actor.

[Adam Thorne]

He is a tour. He's great. Yeah. And you know, to think that Raul is the only guy, you know, that they know of that's really been down there to document that he, like, he.

[Peter]

Finds new structures every time he goes down or something like that.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, you know, to think that like most places have been discovered, like to be an explorer today, my whole life growing up, I'm like, what's the point? Everywhere's been discovered.

[Peter]

Exactly.

[Adam Thorne]

No, it hasn't. It still hasn't.

[Peter]

No.

[Adam Thorne]

He just did this, right? To think that's all of the places.

[Peter]

And then you. Then you have other little like what's just in the Amazon or it's just in Africa? Well, it's. It's because it's out of the jungle, but no, it's going to be under the sand as well. Sahara, probably.

[Adam Thorne]

And, well, this is right out in the open.

[Peter]

Peru. Yeah, but it's miles from anywhere.

[Adam Thorne]

Right? You got to put some work in. Yeah, got to put some work in to get over there. Have some sweet drones.

[Peter]

I'm glad he brings two because sometimes they malfunction. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

I like all his videos. He's got like either a camera stuck on his head or he's got the pole one or a thing on his chest stick. He's just loaded up with his.

[Peter]

Passionate about this. Super passionate.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Peter]

I would be, too. I mean, that's like his cultural heritage, really. He's half Peruvian or something.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Finding sea. Finding seashells at Machu Picchu started this off for him.

[Adam Thorne]

That's right. When he was, what, like 10?

[Peter]

10.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, but think how inspiring that would be. You're 10 years old, you know, seashells come from the sea, so you've learned enough to know. Oh, they're from the ocean, obviously. Creatures are in the ocean now. You find them at 12,000ft, hundreds of miles away, away from the sea. And then you ask the question, well, why?

[Peter]

Right?

[Adam Thorne]

And then somebody says, oh, because it wasn't always like this and this is what happened. And all of a sudden your whole paradigm of what the Earth is and how it works changes. Even your fragile, tiny little scope of what time is changes. And it opens up so broadly and you're like, wait, hang on. How big? Where? When? Why? How far does this go? How far and deep do I need to explore to get all the answers? How deep do the seashells go?

[Peter]

What are they for? Do they grow here? There's all kinds of questions that a 10 year old would just go to.

[Adam Thorne]

It really does highlight the importance of kind of putting kids, young kids in situations to kind of really inspire them too. Expand their brains, because you never know what can come from it.

[Peter]

Yeah. There are future brain scientists and leaders, so we need to.

[Adam Thorne]

You could encourage some kid to go to a museum one day and in the future he could change the world and all you. It was just. Or she. How dare I? I was just joking, but how dare I? How dare you? FEMALE Indiana Jones. That could be a good remake.

[Peter]

It's called Tomb Raider.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, I did it again. I did it again.

[Peter]

She is a vixen. She could find ancient structures.

[Adam Thorne]

She's Got some guns.

[Peter]

She's got a couple of structures of herself, doesn't she?

[Adam Thorne]

We do digress. Back to the pyramids grave, Robin. Pirate, private buyers.

[Peter]

Devastating.

[Adam Thorne]

Sneaky. Makes sense though. I would imagine that there is a lot of really priceless art. Not just historical artifacts, but, you know, a lot of cool stuff in private, you know, collection.

[Peter]

Probably the best ones.

[Adam Thorne]

Probably the best.

[Peter]

Yeah. Those elongated skulls because they're. They're not super common, but they're everywhere down there. Maybe they were a lot more common. They're all filtered off to rep private investors and people.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Did they mention the crystal skulls? I didn't catch that.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't think so. Are they real?

[Peter]

Yeah, there are some crystal skulls in existence.

[Adam Thorne]

What's the deal with that?

[Peter]

Well, let me just take a peek.

[Adam Thorne]

Have a look while you're looking that up. Let's. Let's keep going. I mean, this episode repeatedly returns to the looting as kind of like the central crisis, I would say. Like the sites are not just being explored, but they're really being stripped. Bones scattered everywhere. Like when they were during the pod. If you watch the pod. This is a good one to watch.

[Peter]

You have to watch this.

[Adam Thorne]

You have to watch this one. Because the chambers are opened, you know, everything's destroyed and it's just, you know, you just see the devastation everywhere and the vast plains is what. You just can't get a real picture of the scope of it all either.

[Peter]

The stark. The stark bones next to the dry sand, the skulls everywhere.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. And when he talks about kind of the black market economy as well, it kind of incentivizes the speed of the looting and, you know, all of the archeology that kind of is around that. And there's no way to secure it either. They just don't have any of the forces to do that.

[Peter]

The culture of antiquities or something like that. The Peruvian government body is so overworked and underpaid and corrupt and stretched thin. There's so many sites down there that they just cannot get to them.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Such a shame.

[Peter]

Let's get down there.

[Adam Thorne]

Let's get down there.

[Peter]

Get a whip.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. Gonna need a couple. One for each hand.

[Peter]

I predict for being blind in two months. Whipped in the eye.

[Adam Thorne]

Ouch. We gotta practice with verbo care.

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[Adam Thorne]

You gotta practice so you can swing from stuff.

[Peter]

That's right.

[Adam Thorne]

How did. How did he swing? And then get it off the branch. That wouldn't make any sense.

[Peter]

Yeah, it seems like it'd be real tangled up.

[Adam Thorne]

Just be stuck on that.

[Peter]

A lot of wiggling, and then it kind of messes up his timelines.

[Adam Thorne]

It would have been way better in the movie if he's like, hold on, just a wiggle. Hold on.

[Peter]

Almost got it.

[Adam Thorne]

I got this.

[Peter]

I redid it again.

[Adam Thorne]

Couple of minutes. Yeah. The massive stone structures in, like, the pyramid, like, platforms. Man, I wish we could go back and see what there is. And again, the best they're ever going to be able to do is just a bunch of speculation. But the huge stone blocks on those elevated platforms inset into the ground, just so massive.

[Peter]

Joe seems to think they were carved out of the ground, but maybe this is another situation where they were placed in the ground.

[Adam Thorne]

They would. You would think that they would be able to tell that, though, right?

[Peter]

I don't think they really covered that topic too much.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, they probably would have to excavate down and see that. It's like. Oh, it's like, stuck.

[Peter]

And I guess the last time somebody even went. Went there was in the 80s. He was this the most recent explorer to go there. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, they claim that there's, like, very little modern formal study in that area. For whatever reason, probably because of how isolated it is, how far it is from civilization and everything else. It's just so remote that, you know, it's hard to get expeditions out there. So Raoul asserts he may be the only person documenting that site in any depth.

[Peter]

There's probably a few like that.

[Adam Thorne]

That's a huge amount of pressure on that guy. And Joe really kind of, you know, expresses that in this episode. He's like, man, you are the only guy. Raoul kind of gets choked up a little bit.

[Peter]

Yeah, he does.

[Adam Thorne]

He's like, I know it's a lot of pressure.

[Peter]

They brought up SAR research, the. The new imaging technology from the pyramids we talked about.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Peter]

And implementing that down there.

[Adam Thorne]

That would be great to get that over there. You know, they did talk about that large megalithic structure. It would be great to get that scanning on that thing, you know, because you could imagine it's got to go down. All those things would have to go down a good ways.

[Peter]

At least 50ft, is what that guy was saying.

[Adam Thorne]

The little map he brought out, it would make sense. I mean, it would make sense even further than that. I mean, those structures are so massive and heavy. Just to think that they're just resting on the surface of anything. It's not really how you build anything that's meant to last.

[Peter]

Also, why build so robustly? Why build so big? It kind of like just to live in.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. It's like the stonework appears so advanced and intentional and in the middle of nowhere.

[Peter]

It must have used to been something else. Of course, not just a dusty plain. He thinks they date back way past the Younger Dryas impact event.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Peter]

And this they mentioned our boy, Graham Hancock. Yeah, Quite a bit about the. His speculation. He's one of the only other guys that is really thinking about that from my. From the little I know about it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. What was that building they were talking about some object that they found and he discussed it, that they built some building around it because it was too large to move. And there's kind of like some speculation to what it is. And there.

[Peter]

Was it about the Wari culture?

[Adam Thorne]

I can't remember. There was some. Some talk of it in the pod. Man, I wish I'd taken. There was so much going on in this one.

[Peter]

Yeah, every sentence was a. But kind of like that.

[Adam Thorne]

It was at the point where they were basically just discussing all sorts of, you know, kind of unexplained, ancient, unusual structures kind of all over the world. And one of them was just, it's so large that whoever is there built a building and a structure around it with the idea of either hiding it or studying it. And that's kind of the idea because they just can't move it. They can't do anything else with it. So it's like a way to keep it, you know, hidden away.

[Peter]

There's so many layers of habitation there. There's the Incan, which was the most recent pre colonial civilization on that area. And then they had the Wari, which are before the Incans, and they lasted for probably a few thousand years.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Peter]

But the structures that are there, that are the megalithic structures are. They predate that. So even the oldest people we know in the region just built their little cobblestone walls on top of these huge rocks.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Peter]

Like. Like there's evidence of that sort of stuff at Machu Picchu as well.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure, sure.

[Peter]

On those marshmallow stones. Did you catch that one?

[Adam Thorne]

Right? Yep. I mean, you know, this is around that point in the pod where Joe said, this is what makes me want to run for president. Like, knowing all of these things, because that would be the first thing that he asks. It's like if he could use his popularity for anything to find out these answers, and how he would do it would be to run for president with the sole mission. Like he would hate everything else about that job.

[Peter]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

With the sole mission of just getting access to Be like, Right. First things first, figure out everything about these ancient sites and also show me all the alien shit. And then he afterwards immediately resigns his shin.

[Peter]

Kicks his chief of staff.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, he just kicks him through a wall. Back spin kicks him.

[Peter]

Let me see the evidence.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they're like, we can't let you in this room. He's all kya. He just takes a bunch of UFC guys with him. Let him in.

[Peter]

That's his staff. His chief of staff is like Sean Strickland. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, no.

[Peter]

Controversial.

[Adam Thorne]

It'd be a bad move. But yeah, Just to get some of these answers. I don't know. All right, let's jump over to the Peru alien looking mummies. Now, this was interesting because almost everyone else has been talking about this, has been blown away by it.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And I have been pretty excited about it too. And I think this is one of those things where you get confirmation bias. You get too excited, you hear a couple of people agreeing and you want to believe so bad and then you just stop, you know, being rational.

[Peter]

Just like those.

[Adam Thorne]

Soon as Raul started talking about it and being like, well, let me tell you what I think and then you decide. I did a whole video on this. As soon as he started explaining it to me, I was like, ah, shit, they're fake. We were bamboozled.

[Peter]

Either they were based on something or just completely.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, when they were describing that, it's the same, basically 20 guys that have been bringing these mummies forward and saying, look what we found. And they've been doing it periodically for the past 15, 20 years. And each time they've done it, they have been proven to be fake. But each reiteration gets slightly better. And each time the bits that get better are the bits that were proven fake.

[Peter]

The previous time they were teaching him how to do it. Yeah, it was MRIs.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly. It's basically like they're reverse engineering how to fake it.

[Peter]

They're like really skilled taxidermists.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Peter]

They just take all the bits of other things and put them together. Put them together. Oh, this. But, you know, one piece is the metatarsals weren't had arthritis where the body was a teen, but the feet were an old man.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Couldn't they just take DNA out of the bones though?

[Peter]

Yes.

[Adam Thorne]

And then they'd be like, that's a lizard or it's human and this is a fish.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And this is a human they look so real.

[Peter]

The skin's all, like, cohesive and one. One layer and it just blows me away.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

How they can make those things and.

[Adam Thorne]

The one is pregnant and then it has the metal piece on the head, on the neck. That's, like, kind of rare and, I don't know.

[Peter]

A lot of cool stuff in this episode.

[Adam Thorne]

It's very cool. But I will say for the record, I'm with Raul on this. You're gonna have to come up with something pretty compelling with those mummies. Now. I'm kind of happy to dismiss it.

[Peter]

You don't lose any sleep over that one, huh?

[Adam Thorne]

No.

[Peter]

What about the elongated skulls?

[Adam Thorne]

Weird.

[Peter]

Those are cool.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. But weren't they doing stuff like that? Yeah, Squishing brains.

[Peter]

They did it in here in the United States as well, with the flathead Indians. Native Americans.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Peter]

The Egyptians also, I think had. Nefertiti had an elongated skull.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm.

[Peter]

And that's another thing. Was it based on something they saw and they were replicating it, or did it just come out of nowhere? They're trying to emulate corn. Maybe. There's a few different ideas, but there is one that doesn't have the regular sutures. That one they showed was, like, near the bottom of the list. And it was 20% larger. It had bigger orbital sockets and huge bulbous back of the head. It looked like you could have two brains in there.

[Adam Thorne]

Whoa.

[Peter]

So maybe it is a way to expand your brain cavity. Do some real thinking.

[Adam Thorne]

Real thinking. That's literally thinking outside the box, though. Imagine his ideas or hers?

[Peter]

There were both, definitely.

[Adam Thorne]

I like it. Yeah. I don't know about all that. That's very interesting, though, the brain squishing. It would have been very strange to see somebody doing that. Very distinguishing features, though. I wonder if that hurts. Maybe if you do it very young, it's probably not a problem.

[Peter]

I don't think it hurts.

[Adam Thorne]

They got squishy heads.

[Peter]

They just. They wrap it. I think they wrap it from birth.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh.

[Peter]

And then they. Maybe they put a board in there at some point.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm.

[Peter]

Yeah. The Native Americans in this region would tie it to the front and back so they'd have like kind of a chisel shaped head. I don't think that does anything for your brain.

[Adam Thorne]

What. What was the point of that?

[Peter]

I don't know. Be taller, More attractive.

[Adam Thorne]

Look. Cool.

[Peter]

Just. You know how culture gets weird when you're all alone.

[Adam Thorne]

Run faster. Aerodynamics, probably.

[Peter]

Aerodynamics. Maybe they're right at a big lake. Maybe they swim really fast.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Torpedo heads.

[Adam Thorne]

Imagine if that Worked. They were like, look how fast they can swim. And then you're like, oh, that actually does work.

[Peter]

Probably keeps the other tribes from wanting your ladies, that's for sure.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, because you like the Klingons because.

[Peter]

Of the big old flatheads.

[Adam Thorne]

You're like, whoa, these guys look wild.

[Peter]

I'd like to see one.

[Adam Thorne]

It's very distinctive. You know, it's a way to stand out. I mean, you know, coaches would tattoo themselves.

[Peter]

Look scary in combat.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Look bigger.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. You know, you've got to think back. Intimidation is a big part of. Of everything with. With protection and warfare and you name it.

[Peter]

Yeah. Having a high opinion of others is the safest way to be safe. If they're scary, you know, you're not gonna pick on them.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, for sure. Oh, what about the knotted string system? What do they call it? The keepy? Quipi.

[Peter]

Kipu's, maybe.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm. Quipu. There we go.

[Peter]

Kipu.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Not only can knot is string communication we knew or they think it's communication. They're still not sure if it was a language.

[Peter]

He said that there was one Mayan that made it all the way to Spain that read one for the king. He mentioned that part. Oh, mentioned there was an incident where somebody did read one the past. We thought they were just numbering systems, way of accounting, but maybe they represent sounds, not just numbers.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, you would think the AI could figure that out probably. You know, or eventually. When is it going to start breaking these codes?

[Peter]

It has been deciphering some old texts, some ancient stuff. Yeah, okay. It's getting used.

[Adam Thorne]

Get on with it. Hurry up. Chatgpt. Look at me just handing out these orders like I could do any of it.

[Peter]

All I can do is type in my little interface here and then plagiarize.

[Adam Thorne]

I just write. Do it. Push enter. It's like it doesn't even know what I want it to do more. Just do that.

[Peter]

Mine just gave my money back. It's like, you're not using me, Right?

[Adam Thorne]

Just feel sorry for you. So you haven't asked me any good questions. You could have just googled those.

[Peter]

9 times 17.

[Adam Thorne]

Anything multiplied by 10, and it's like, you don't have to pay for this. Stop, please don't waste your money. Yeah, is just so sad to think that when like, the Spanish came in and they. They wanted to impose their religion so strongly that they destroyed all of the history.

[Peter]

Beautiful codices. Like these big folded books.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay. I just wonder what the, like, assimilation value of that is. I mean, look, when the Romans were assimilating everyone in Europe and around Asia. And it wasn't like they destroyed. Did they destroy every bit of everyone's culture as they went? Surely not.

[Peter]

They did a little bit. But they also were pretty diplomatic. They wanted you to have your. Your gods in their temple. They would, like, make a. Make a statue of it, and they would preserve cult culture. Not just. It's called synchronicity.

[Adam Thorne]

It seems to make sense to do that a little bit.

[Peter]

You don't want to step on the people. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Just be like, look, you're paying our taxes and working for us now, and you can keep your stuff.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Keep it mostly the way that it.

[Peter]

Was on and off. It was very on and off also.

[Adam Thorne]

Do you have any cool stuff? Because we want to figure out if you've got. If you can do things better than we can. That's a smart way to learn.

[Peter]

It is. And they were like that because they were kind of gym bros. They got their culture from the Greeks, and they went east and got a lot of metallurgy technologies from over there.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe it was just a real ignorant period.

[Peter]

I think that that was. Was breeding ignorance. The leaders were inbred, literally, and riddled with disease. Doesn't let your brain work too well.

[Adam Thorne]

That's what it was.

[Peter]

Syphilis.

[Adam Thorne]

Didn't actually. Didn't that travel the other way?

[Peter]

Yeah, probably.

[Adam Thorne]

The Europeans got that from the Americas. Right.

[Peter]

When they got here, they got it, and they were rotting away.

[Adam Thorne]

They brought smallpox, the Europeans did, and that seems to have wiped out all of Central and South America.

[Peter]

They think maybe foodborne hepatitis. There's a lot about. Probably quite a few pathogens that did the natives in here. A great book about that is 1491 by Charles Seaman. And then the Lost City of the Monkey God. I forget who that one's by, but that's. That talks about kind of. It's Honduras area.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, okay.

[Peter]

And same thing the Spanish got. The Spanish got to Mexico, and then the sick people went everywhere else traveling with these diseases.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Peter]

Yes. So it moved faster than an army could. It was a devastating.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Peter]

For the population.

[Adam Thorne]

That's wild. Yeah. No good. Where was Fauci then to tell them to wear their masks?

[Peter]

He was probably. We need. Maybe they had their Fauci back then.

[Adam Thorne]

Sacrifice more babies with a mask on.

[Peter]

That's probably what they. That was their solution for everything. Mm. And a lot of these mummies they're finding in the high plains of Peru were child sacrifices.

[Adam Thorne]

Is that right?

[Peter]

Yeah. Some of the most intact ones were. Were wrapped up, put on Like a huge ledge. They got them drunk, they exposed them. So they died of. From the elements. The babies, like 10 year olds, 11 year olds.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, they were drunk though.

[Peter]

They would give them like chicha or something like that. It's a corn and a corn beer.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, for the gods.

[Peter]

For the gods.

[Adam Thorne]

For like good weather or good luck. Rain.

[Peter]

It's probably rain because at some point that place dried out considerably. It's one of the driest places in the world.

[Adam Thorne]

So yeah, you got to do anything to get that rain going. Didn't work. You would think after a while you're like, I don't think this is working, guys. Should we try something else?

[Peter]

I think that happened and that's how governments were overthrown back then. The king takes all your kids and then doesn't the floods still come and kill everybody else? He's out of there.

[Adam Thorne]

Get room.

[Peter]

He's out of that. That happened in the Hopewell culture, southeastern United States.

[Adam Thorne]

What about the talk between academic institutions and like the independent explorers? So this is always where the debate gets heavy, right? This is what Graham Hancock's always up against. This is the big fight. And my hope is one day that the lines between this start to meld and then blend and then cross over. And then it's like, now the academic pursuit is basically as open as the independent one, you know, where the lines are just more. It's like, hey, yeah, we have our timeline that was mostly predicted, but it's now far more flexible. It's more of a plus or minus type thing than here was when this was made, right? It's like, here's where this. There's a range. The pyramids were made probably in this range type of thing, which I think is a way more honest approach to history, realistically. Yeah, that's, you know, we're pretty good back to the Romans and maybe the Greeks. But beyond that, why are we trying to be like exact with those things?

[Peter]

It's really hard when you don't have any text to base the digs off of in your timelines. Because we have Greek and Roman texts that we kind of deciphered and, oh, this is where Troy was. They. They found out where Troy was from the Odyssey and did a dig and there it is, right?

[Adam Thorne]

And we can line it up with like different wars and conquests. And then we know when that happened in the other places from their writings. So we're like, okay, that happened there then. So that must have happened here at this time. So this kind of lines up. So there's two Pieces. But when you've just got the pyramids on its own. Yeah. You have things happening around the pyramids and after the pyramids with the pharaohs and other things, but no story about right then at the beginning or whatever.

[Peter]

Yeah. The Younger Dryas impact washed it all away. Scoured it with snow and wash it away when the floods receded.

[Adam Thorne]

Graham thinks that's what he thinks.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Yep. And Randall, good old Randall.

[Peter]

And Robert. Robert Schuck. The one. One of the big things that was really interesting for me was the DNA testing of some of those bones. Some of them came back as European bones, like Baltic area or Turkey, something like that.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Peter]

Yeah. They found they have red hair. A lot of these elongated skulls have red hair. Huh. That was interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

Tons of traveling men. Yeah.

[Peter]

Our world was not just separate and segregated like we. I almost expect it to have been. Sure there was people from over there.

[Adam Thorne]

Coming over here, coming over there.

[Peter]

Or were they here and went over there stealing our jobs, our long headed women.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean it doesn't surprise me that we could have been traveling all around and exploring and being like not just nomads locally. It's like, why couldn't we have been really good at just traveling vast distances?

[Peter]

It can happen. Even if you just island hop, you can get across the whole world essentially up through Greenland towards Europe.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean we, you know, if you like essentially back then everyone was good at surviving off the land.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

If you have, you can hunt and you know, pretty good at like coming up with clever ways to store foods and get more foods and a lot of fishing. You could just keep moving, catching birds, following rivers.

[Peter]

And the problem in the archaeology with that is that's next to water and the water changes. It goes up and it goes down and it goes up. It floods sites and it goes down and it takes it with them.

[Adam Thorne]

So it destroys the history.

[Peter]

So there's some of the oldest occupations in north and South America are in Chile. Kind of interesting, right, that the oldest occupation is in Chile. Not America, not Alaska, but way down there. They think it was from people in skinned boats going from island to island.

[Adam Thorne]

Makes sense.

[Peter]

Just coasting down the coast with your whole family. Home is wherever you make it. So it's not like this is your life and you end up maybe 200 miles from where you were born and your kids are 200 miles from that.

[Adam Thorne]

Just keep going.

[Peter]

Kind of a cool way to think about our ancestors.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And it just seems like back then, because you wouldn't know how vast the land is, it's Just like the world could be infinitely big. You just keep traveling.

[Peter]

A lot of sloths in this area. Let's move on. Shoot those things.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, Maybe there's more food this way. Keep going.

[Peter]

BROTHERS ARGUE One goes that way, one goes that way. It's his tale. As old as Cain and Abel.

[Adam Thorne]

That's a good point. Mm, yeah. Wild.

[Peter]

Older, I guess.

[Adam Thorne]

No, not as old.

[Peter]

He's the first one.

[Adam Thorne]

That's the first one. I got the second group of people.

[Peter]

Pre dogmatic in this studio. What a rules.

[Adam Thorne]

So, yeah, just to kind of recap some of that, I mean, it does, it does really make me want to travel to some of these places. You know, we talk about them so much. They come up on Rogan so much. I mean, it's been over. What is it now? We've been listening to rogan for like 17 years. How crazy is that?

[Peter]

Incredible.

[Adam Thorne]

It's almost two decades of listening to Rogan on and off, talk about ancient sites. And the best I've done is Stonehenge, which was down the road from my house anyway, where I was born.

[Peter]

That's hilarious.

[Adam Thorne]

Uh huh. I mean.

[Peter]

And Stonehenge was rebuilt, wasn't it?

[Adam Thorne]

Well, we lived in New Mexico. You know, there's some really wild old stuff in New Mexico too, that they really can't explain. How it was built and why it was there. Like up in some cliffs.

[Peter]

Yeah, there's quite a few of those sites around the United States. And here in Montana, I think there's a megalithic wall.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh yeah. What is it called? Does something wool.

[Peter]

Montana.

[Adam Thorne]

Shoot. No, it's not. What is it called? Let's do it justice.

[Peter]

Do it right. I want to go to Malta and see those. I want to go to Gnung Penang.

[Adam Thorne]

Sage Wall. Sage Wall.

[Peter]

It's called Sage Wall. Huge blocks, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It's on someone's land though. So it's like you got to make an appointment. It's kind of difficult to get on there. But it's not that far from here.

[Peter]

We should do. That's our first one near Butte.

[Adam Thorne]

We. That should be our first one. Let's do that. We do a part on it. We make a whole proper episode and we make. We make a time of it. And then maybe that will be the inspiration to like propel us to do others and we do a series of them. Okay, why not?

[Peter]

Why not?

[Adam Thorne]

We can do it.

[Peter]

We have the technology. Yeah. And then we, you know, getting older, you know.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, look, we're going to be reviewing these episodes. Every time Rogan has one of these guests on. And it's going to add to our breakdowns of those episodes because we have more of an idea of like, oh, remember this? Or remember that story. It's like right now it's just like things we saw on a show.

[Peter]

Right. Where's our authenticity?

[Adam Thorne]

Instead of having like, I want to stand next to it and be like, holy shit, that is crazy. This wasn't natural.

[Peter]

There's no more.

[Adam Thorne]

There's no way.

[Peter]

Yeah, there's. All these blocks are right angles running for a mile or something and you can't even fit a piece of paper in between them.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I want to be as blown away as these guys are that came come on this show that, like, there's a reason that they're so passionate about it. They're not just wacky dudes that had nothing else to do there. Maybe they are, but some of them are. But they have seen some things that have just been so mind blowing to them that it's like overwhelming proof that incredible civilizations happened in the past with massive feats of engineering capabilities and it doesn't make any sense that they could do it. And modern archeology is like totally dismisses it or says that they just chipped away with old stone tools and they.

[Peter]

Didn'T find any evidence of tools at most these sites.

[Adam Thorne]

The big problem with the sites in Peru is a lot of that seems like it was tsunami away. Oh, yeah, A lot of it looks.

[Peter]

Very washed and pillaged. Washed away, stolen.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Everything is just kind of grave robbers. Be nice if they just left like a little box, though. Little toolbox.

[Peter]

Just take a picture of it and then upload it to Twitter.

[Adam Thorne]

And just a cabinet. One little cabinet with some tools in.

[Peter]

Can we get a cabinet?

[Adam Thorne]

Just leave it in there. Just one.

[Peter]

One whole mummy, please.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, a filing cabinet with just some drawings, couple of plans.

[Peter]

I wonder if they had paper. They definitely had cloth.

[Adam Thorne]

Papyrus.

[Peter]

That's Egyptian. Ah, maybe there's papyri.

[Adam Thorne]

Papyri.

[Peter]

Papooses.

[Adam Thorne]

They would have had some banana leaves.

[Peter]

Yep. That's Asian okay. Back then.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, dude.

[Peter]

Just avocado leaves.

[Adam Thorne]

Just brainstorming.

[Peter]

We're just spitballing here, everybody.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Something with coconuts.

[Peter]

Are you thinking of a bra?

[Adam Thorne]

Making the horse. Yeah, making the horse noises. Patsy, look, I love this episode. I found it fascinating. I think it's inspiring us to go check out ancient sites. If anyone has that's listening and is really into this kind of thing, shoot us an email. I want to know where to go. Where you recommend that we go first, at least help us put a list together because you want to do it in the right order. It's an expensive and difficult undertaking. And you know, Machu Picchu's got to be on there for sure. And go Beckley, Tepe. I want to go to those underground carved out of the stone, like those places. I think they're in Turkey.

[Peter]

Oh, Gobekli Tepe.

[Adam Thorne]

No, no, no. It's like underground and they just like dug it out.

[Peter]

The Russian ones.

[Adam Thorne]

No, I think it's in Turkey.

[Peter]

Oh, you're talking Derinkuyu.

[Adam Thorne]

Yes. I want to go to those deep well. And it's like, it could hold like 20,000 people and it's all cut out of the rock.

[Peter]

Cappadocia.

[Adam Thorne]

And they're just like, why?

[Peter]

What? Yeah. And every civilization used them, but nobody knows who made them. Yeah, the Christians hid there, the Muslims hid there before that, the Zoroastrians potentially. And nobody knows.

[Adam Thorne]

They were just there.

[Peter]

But I think there was some stuff describing living underground in like the Sumerian texts of. What do they call it? Their, their emergence texts. Their first, their first people's stories. And in the Bhadvad Gita of India, talk about. Which is super old, they talk about lightning, you know, basically nuclear battles in the sky and the people had to hide.

[Adam Thorne]

Wow.

[Peter]

Aliens.

[Adam Thorne]

The aliens there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean look online feel and vibe of this episode that supporters. There's more out there than we're being told. Though there were some skeptics.

[Peter]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Interesting footage. But conclusions exceed evidence.

[Peter]

So did we even hear any conclusions?

[Adam Thorne]

Not really.

[Peter]

He was just showing us.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, and then there were some moderates. Even if timelines don't change, preservation is urgent. So the alien mummy dismissal improved credibility for some viewers. It did with me. I thought that was a really good point. Others remain cautious about claims lacking peer reviewed excavation data. But you know, this isn't. These guests aren't the peer reviewed guys, so relax.

[Peter]

Also, if you can't get an archaeologist to peer review it, then how will it be peer reviewed? They're so close minded.

[Adam Thorne]

It's a good point. They won't even peer review it. They want to episode rating when ran through our system, our AI system that just scans all the online stuff. 8.1 out of 10 high. Yeah, high rating. I mean it makes sense. This is right up Joe's alley. This is old school Joe Rogan. This is what we look for. This is what the fans like. Strong visual curiosity and meaningful preservation urgency. Slight reduction for speculative leaps that rely on inference rather than formal excavation data. Yeah. Bit of a takeaway.

[Peter]

Joe does do that.

[Adam Thorne]

Final, final thoughts. Whatever history ultimately says, the material record is being damaged in real time. There are changes. The loud debate is about timelines. The quiet crisis is about looting. And that's kind of the big message here. How are they going to stop that looting? I have no idea. But I hope Raul gets down there again. I hope he has a bit more funding next time. I hope he can take a bigger team, do more measurements. Definitely get that satellite over there that can kind of scan and get, get some better readings. That'd be cool. If they could really get under the ground and see if there's some stuff under there, kind of 3D, like rebuild it with some sort of AI system. That would be pretty sweet.

[Peter]

Make a map of all those deep, big stones.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, save it there. But that's it for this one. I hope you enjoyed it. Definitely. Check it out if you like the ancient civilization stuff. We liked it. Thank you so much for listening. We will talk to you guys next time.

[Peter]

Later.

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