508 JRE Review of Roger Avary

Summary

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Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 508 JRE Review of Roger Avary
Host: Adam Thorne
Date: February 24, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Adam Thorne and co-host Brandon dive deep into their review of Joe Rogan’s wild and boundary-pushing conversation with Roger Avary—a filmmaker best known for co-writing Pulp Fiction with Quentin Tarantino. The expectation is to discuss movies, but the review quickly follows Rogan and Avary into rabbit holes ranging from legitimate film critiques to fringe conspiracy theories, all while echoing the chaotic, tangent-filled spirit of the episode itself. The hosts balance admiration and skepticism as they dissect flat earth debates, conspiracy culture, predictive programming in media, and the ongoing fascination (and dread) around topics like Epstein and Pizzagate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Avary’s Surprising Pivot: From Cinema to Conspiracies

Timestamps: 01:59–06:32

• Initial impressions: The hosts expect a movie-centered episode but are thrown by rapid pivots into conspiracy territory.

  • “It went from just movies and just slowly creeped into this territory that was like, what in the world is going on?” (Adam, 02:07)
  • “By the end of it, you’re like, I need to sit somewhere else next week or maybe even drop this class.” (Brandon, 02:36)

• Avary as the Eddie Bravo stand-in:

  • “It was a great episode with Eddie Bravo—I mean Roger Avary. It might as well have been.” (Adam, 01:59)
  • “Even when he was doing the flat earthing, he was more just being an antagonist… almost like devil’s advocate.” (Brandon, 04:08)

• Audience reaction is sharply divided:

  • “Fan reception… it’s either one end of the spectrum or the other. Either best shit ever… or completely mental. Which in England we call that Marmite.” (Adam, 03:32; Brandon, 03:51)

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2. Flat Earth, Conspiracies, and Motivations

Timestamps: 05:01–13:13

• Flat earth nostalgia:

  • “It really was Eddie Bravo all over again. What in the world is happening?” (Adam, 05:01)
  • “He was just pushing back… but even Joe is like, ‘Hey man… you actually have some real beliefs in this.’” (Adam, 05:24)

• Skeptical breakdown:

  • The hosts humor Avary’s flat earth banter but repeatedly highlight the logical flaws.
  • “Like, the most insane discovery… the fact that everyone’s lying, that’s the only thing governments agree on?” (Adam, 06:26)
  • “What power and control would they be gaining by just saying it’s round instead of flat?” (Brandon, 06:35)

• On conspiracy radicalization:

  • Referencing Alex Jones and Eddie Bravo’s “don’t trust anything, believe the opposite” mentalities.
  • “That mindset’s a little dangerous. But… it’s such a flawed way to think.” (Adam, 09:06, 09:16)

• Cherry-picking and historical relativism:

  • Lampooning arguments that cite old scientific beliefs (“they said do cocaine for diarrhea”), and mocking flat earther experiments gone wrong (“Curb Your Enthusiasm music”). (Adam, 10:46–13:02)

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3. Predictive Programming & Media’s Social Impact

Timestamps: 13:46–19:25

• Predictive programming in entertainment:

  • Adam floats the “Fight Club” example and broader claims about media conditioning audiences.
  • “Do you think that’s a bigger operation to control the public?” (Adam, 13:47)

• Debate on intentionality vs. coincidence:

  • Brandon leans toward coincidence, Adam highlights real desensitization through repeated violent or disturbing imagery, drawing comparisons between American and British TV cultures.
  • “I don’t think he’s wrong. I think it has desensitized people. I don’t think maybe it was…” (Adam, 15:35–19:25)

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4. 9/11, Epstein, and the Conspiracy Expansion Pack

Timestamps: 21:46–31:04

• Diving into 9/11 skepticism:

  • “Building Seven—we gotta hit that. We gotta hit it like a plane. Wait, no. Too much?” (Brandon, 24:44)
  • Point out the lack of Pentagon footage, government secrecy, and the usefulness of the event for U.S. policy changes (Patriot Act, wars).
  • “If any group of people could pull off a plan like that, they seem completely unstoppable.” (Brandon, 31:05)

• The Epstein web:

  • Noting the government’s withholding of all Epstein communications around 9/11, and the recurring theme of powerful interests hiding unsettling truths.
  • “This is why we live in caves away from the public, under a rock.” (Brandon, 29:00)
  • “I just want to shove this in there for Epstein. The Epstein files, all Epstein emails before, during and after 911 have been withheld by the government.” (Adam, 28:26)

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5. Hollywood, Rituals, and Sacrifices

Timestamps: 33:13–36:25, 46:41–49:44

• Avary’s most shocking claims:
  • Hollywood elites and “sacrifices”; Avery mentions a female pop star who “sacrifices chickens every day.”
  • “There’s a certain female pop star in Hollywood who sacrifices chickens every day for—I’m like, what?” (Adam, 33:13)
  • Discussion about the historical prevalence of ritual sacrifice and the speculative notion that there may be real, present-day equivalents among the power elite.

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6. Epstein, Adrenochrome, and the Darkness of Conspiracy

Timestamps: 49:06–50:49

• Sulfuric acid & Epstein’s island:

  • “Epstein ordered 330 gallons of sulfuric acid, like, the day he was indicted… What the heck were they dissolving?” (Brandon, 49:06)

• Gene splicing & monstrous claims:

  • “There’s evidence that they were doing gene splicing as well. They were making, like, Neanderthals…” (Adam, 49:55)

• Research rabbit holes:

  • Adam references JMail as a resource for anyone wanting to look up terminology or code words found in leaked documents.

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7. Cinephilia: Trekkies, Star Wars, and Franchise Fails

Timestamps: 36:46–46:41

• Star Trek’s decline and fan outrage:

  • Avary, a huge Trekkie, expressed anger over the “D.I.-ification” and hiring policies of new Star Trek productions.
  • “I don’t want anyone working on this project who likes Star Trek. Disgusting.” (Adam, 38:24)
  • Discussion of The Orville as a spiritual Star Trek successor.

• Halo and Star Wars fumbles:

  • Extended rant on why franchises fail when new creators disregard established canon.
  • “It’s like punching your fans in the balls. That’s what it feels like…” (Adam, 41:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the wild tonal shifts:

  • “It felt like… the weird kid in the film class, and during our conversation, his medication started to wear off.” (Adam, 02:07)

• On conspiracy logic:

  • “What power and control would they be gaining by just saying it’s round instead of flat?” (Brandon, 06:35)

• On predictive programming:

  • “At some point, every sound is going to be made… every premise is going to be touched upon. It’s bound to happen in any art form.” (Adam, 15:35)

• On Hollywood rituals:

  • “There’s a certain female pop star in Hollywood who sacrifices chickens every day for—I’m like, what? Can we focus on that a little more?” (Adam, 33:13)

• Epstein–9/11 connection:

  • “All Epstein emails before, during and after 911 have been withheld by the government.” (Adam, 28:26)

• On Star Trek fandom:

  • “I don’t want anyone working on this project who likes Star Trek. Disgusting.” (Adam, 38:24)

• On modern franchise woes:

  • “It’s like punching your fans in the balls. That’s what it feels like…” (Adam, 41:24)

• On Avary’s relentless conspiracism:

  • “He kept one-upping his conspiracies… there were so many points where it’s like, oh that’s the craziest one he believes in. And then, like, 10 minutes later, ‘Oh nope, that’s the craziest one.’” (Adam, 23:49)

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Listener and Host Verdict

• Audience response:

  • “Film nerds loved it; the conspiracy people loved it. ...Brought a lot of people back to the table.” (Brandon, 50:44)
  • “Ran it through the online AI… solid 8.7. I give it a solid 8 out of 10.” (Brandon, 51:45)

• Host endorsement:

  • “I enjoyed it a great deal… nothing boring about it. This was such a beautiful cocktail.” (Adam, 51:42, 46:28)

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Useful Timestamps

• 01:59 — Expectation vs. reality: movies to conspiracies
• 05:01–07:25 — Flat earth, devil’s advocate & logical defenses
• 13:46–19:25 — Predictive programming debate
• 21:46–27:42 — 9/11, Building Seven, Pentagon skepticism
• 28:26–31:04 — Epstein, government secrecy
• 33:13–36:25 — Hollywood rituals & pop star claims
• 36:46–46:41 — Star Trek, franchise decline, nerd gripes
• 46:41–49:44 — Coded messages in film, secret Hollywood symbolism
• 49:06–50:49 — Epstein’s sulfuric acid order & bioengineering rumors
• 50:44–52:22 — Listener feedback, episode scoring, and closing thoughts

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Final Thoughts

This review episode channels the whirlwind energy of Joe’s chat with Avary, providing an engaging recap equal parts cinephile banter and conspiracy carnival. Adam and Brandon riff, reflect, and laugh their way through the layers of the original JRE, granting listeners both critical context and the sincere fun of conspiracy curiosity—without ever taking themselves too seriously. Whether you dig deep-dive film lore or viral conspiracy breakdowns, this one’s a wild ride.

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Transcript

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[A]

Today.

[B]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

[A]

What a bizarre thing we've created now

[B]

with your host, Adam Thorne. One go.

[A]

Enjoy the show.

[B]

Hey, guys. And welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Brandon and I are here to tackle this episode that got kind of wild. I thought it was just going to be about movies and boy, did they get into some other things on this one, to say the least.

[A]

Yeah, this. This was a great episode with Eddie Bravo. I mean, Roger Avery. It was. It was an awesome episode.

[B]

It might as well have been.

[A]

It might as well made me think. It made me think. I took a film class in college. It felt like I was talking to like, you know, I made a friend there and was talking to like the weird K in the film class. And during our conversation, his medication started to wear off. Yeah, because it went from like just movies and just slowly creeped into this territory that was like, what in the world is going on?

[B]

Right? It's like day one of class and you're like, wow, I've met. I've met a really interesting kid in class today. They're like, this guy really knows his stuff about Movies. And by the end of it, you're like, I need to sit somewhere else next week or maybe even drop this class.

[A]

Oh, you like Citizen Kane too? That's awesome. What else can we talk about? So the curvature of the earth, you know, it's crazy. I honestly loved the 180. I really did like it.

[B]

I could hang out with him all day and every day maybe. And he's a Trekkie.

[A]

I like.

[B]

I like it. I like him.

[A]

Yes. He's made some good movies, too. Director, producer, Academy Award winning screenwriter for Pulp Fiction, which he co wrote with Tarantino. One of my favorite Fools of Attraction, Killing Zoe. He's done some amazing stuff.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And fan reception for this episode is a little mixed. And when I say mixed, it's either one end of the spectrum or the other. Know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where people are saying, it was just the best shit ever. I loved every topic. It was just awesome. And then others saying this was just completely mental.

[B]

Yeah. Which in England we call that Marmite. You either love it or you hate it. It's not going to make any sense for anyone that isn't British or Australian for this episode.

[A]

And I definitely loved it. Yeah, I definitely liked it quite a lot. Yeah.

[B]

Well, you know, people could be put off by just kind of how he changed direction. But, you know, even. Even when he was doing the flat earthing, he was more just being an antagonist. Right. Almost like devil's advocate. He was just kind of playing with the idea that, hey, what have you seen? As an observer, though? Like, just take that into account for a second and just start from that perspective and work backwards. Like, ultimately you do have to entrust a lot to a lot of other people in order to believe something else. And, you know, quite rightly we do, and for good reason, because otherwise our understanding of a lot of things would completely fall to pieces.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And regarding the flat earth stuff, it's like, it's. It's fun to see him push back. And it really was Eddie Bravo all over again. What in the world is happening?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This was a movie podcast. We're doing Eddie Bravo now. But I do think a little bit. I know he was even saying, like, you said that. He was like, I'm just having fun with you. I'm just pushing back.

[B]

Oh, he believed it. He believed.

[A]

Even Joe is like, hey, man, you know, you seem to have really looked into this. This doesn't seem like a fun little thing you're bringing up. Like, this seems like you actually have some real beliefs in this I don't know. It's like. Like to even get into this, you know, the flight patterns, the whole idea. When a boat, like a ship, like, goes across, like, over the horizon, its bottom first fades out. You know what I mean? The whole ship at once doesn't fade into the horizon. Just makes sense. Also, the whole idea of, like, all these competing countries and there's this one big thing they're all hiding. The fact that not a single country would be like, hey, well, like, that would be the. Like, the most insane discovery. Like, that would be the most insane thing to cover up. And the fact that everyone's lying, that's the only thing that all these governments are on the same page about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Page about.

[B]

And for what?

[A]

It makes no sense.

[B]

Yeah. What would they have to gain? What difference does it make, you know, Think of the things that they lie for. It's to gain some sort of control or power. What power and control would they be gaining by just saying it? What's round instead of flat? It's like, we. We. It doesn't change anything for us either way. We just still walking around it.

[A]

Yeah. When you look at 9, 11, the moon landing, when it comes to, you know, maybe controlled demolition or faking the moon landing, there's a lot of reason behind all that, you know, like, it makes sense why we would do certain things. I don't agree with these certain things, but it makes sense why we would.

[B]

You could see the motivation.

[A]

Exactly. I can see the motivation 100%. This there's. It literally is not.

[B]

Dude, I can see even the motivation for chemtrails. Right. Depending on what a chemical could be. It's like, yeah, you could either poison or add some compound to an area for some reason. Like, yeah, I could see a motivation to do that. Whereas just saying something is a different shape or hiding vast stretches of an area from people for some reason. It's. I just. I don't get it. I don't understand what any motivation there would be. And then they're like, space is also completely not real. He was like, the moon is just plasma. It's like, wouldn't we just say that it is. Then that's actually pretty interesting. Like, cool. Okay. It is fine.

[A]

Makes no sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think there's a bit of radicalization here when it comes to conspiracy theorists right now. Because I talked about this with Alex Jones with Bohemian Grove. It's like, imagine being a conspiracy theorist and you just hit the lottery. You know what I mean? What does that do to a person? Yeah, that Turns you into it that, like, you know, if you thought you were a conspiracy theorist before now, all of it's, yes. If that's. If that's, you know, happening, what else is? It's the whole thing with Eddie Bravo where he's like, I don't think anything's real. I think everyone's lying all the time. Anything someone says, it's the opposite.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that mindset's a little dangerous. A little. But, like, there. It's just such a flawed way to think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, just to always assume it's the opposite.

[B]

Well, you have to have foundation in order to go from. Right. You have to have something grounded to be like, okay, now I make decisions from this point. If everything is, like, right, everything's a lie, everything I'm told is the opposite. I mean, where do you go from there? That gets squirrely fast. I mean, I think a lot of this is that, you know, he enjoys the rabbit holes. They make good stories. He's a storyteller. He makes great films that. That go down these sorts of rabbit holes when telling stories, because that's what's interesting. So why wouldn't he explore it? And on the way down, especially because of the Internet, like, the longer you look at these things, you know, the more convincing some of it does look. And then you get your mind in that gear, and it's kind of easy to get stuck in there. You start connecting the dots yourself. And also, there's always that thing you want to believe. You want to kind of feel like the only person that figured it out.

[A]

That's exactly. There's a lot of cherry picking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, There's a lot of cherry picking. What was funny? He was saying, like, yeah, Galileo said that, you know, he thought the Earth was flat and they have the dome and everything. It's like, yeah, dude, like, what, 300 years ago, they were saying if you have diarrhea, you should do cocaine, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like the track record hasn't been good for science. You know what I mean? I feel like looking at the past at something like that. Like, hey, one, at one point, someone said 500 years ago there was a Bigfoot, so there has to be Bigfoots. Right. I don't think that's a good way to make conclusions, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And did you see that thing where the. They. It was a bunch of flat Earthers, and they tried to debunk that the Earth is a sphere by having, you know, two. It's like two wooden block Two wooden walls.

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[A]

cut a hole in. In both of them at the same length from the ground. And they're like, okay, we're at this distance. If we shine the light into the hole, since the earth is flat, we should be able to see it on the other side. But if it's curved, then we won't see the light. So they shined it through the hole, no light. And he's like, all right, well, we'll put the light over your head. He puts it over his head. Now we can see the light. He's like, oh, interesting. Then it plays the curb your enthusiasm music. You know, it's like, just like, I don't know.

[B]

Proves it right to him. And I'm sure they came up with some other reason why. Some other reason why it happened.

[A]

Because now flat earthers are looking at that. They're like. And they're thinking like, they're plants. They're not there. This plants, you know, anti flattered society made this documentary to make us look stupid.

[B]

It's a faulty.

[A]

It's probably some bull.

[B]

Faulty flat flashlight. That's all it is. Yeah, faulty flashlight.

[A]

I actually think the earth's a cube, to be honest. That makes a lot more sense.

[B]

That'd be funny. Cuba society. Just throw. Throw it in the mix. Why not?

[A]

Let's start that.

[B]

Yeah, why not? I don't know, man.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think about.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

What do you think about predictive programming in film? You know, I used the example of fight club. How the demolition of the buildings and how pretty much we are programmed through just like pop culture, getting us ready for certain things. Like, for example, they use that whole example of Like Stephen Colbert giving the. The baby to. And be like, take the baby. And then all this happens. And we're like, yeah, whatever. Saw it on tv. Yeah, like, that's what happens. We can also go back to every single Alien movie ever. You know what I mean? So what are your thoughts on that generally? Do you think that's more of a bigger operation to control the public?

[B]

I mean, or it's just a coincidence in terms of. Yeah, you make enough interesting stories and movies, and then real life has it happen and we react the way that we would have anyway. I mean, you know, is he implying that we would have acted differently if we hadn't had seen this in movies before? Almost like the movie itself is desensitizing us of it and that there's this grand conspiracy that people like, all right, guys, so now we need to show some. Some babies being given to devils, because over time, we're going to normalize the fact that we sacrifice babies. And then people would just be, like, cool with it. That seems like a bit of a long play and a bit of a stretch.

[A]

I agree. I do agree. I like to look at it like this, like an analogy with music, you know what I mean? At some point, every sound is going to be made, right? Every genre, everything's gonna happen. Same thing with film, same thing with tv. Every premise is going to be touched upon. It's just bound to happen. It's bound to happen in any art form. You know, now, premises of those premises and twist some things, and it's happening to this day. But I think, yeah, it's like, it's. I think it's a coincidence. But at the same time, I don't think he's wrong. I think it has desensitized people. I don't think maybe it was. It was meant to happen that way. That was like the plan.

[B]

But no, I. Look, now that I think about it, I agree with you more. Because one thing that kind of, in a sense, does happen, there is a difference that I noticed when I moved to America is TV was far more violent. Like, earlier in the day, they would play movies that had more violence on than they do in the uk and conversely, England would have more nudity and cuss words. And then American TV did. So it was like, that was the SW in England that was more normalized. And in America, violence was like, perfectly fine. I mean, I remember watching, like, Die Hard in, like, the middle of the day, and they had it on some cable show. They would never do that in England. Like, it just. They don't show, like, movies like that on regular tv. And I also understood America to kind of be. I don't want to say a more violent culture, but just like, kind of like, I knew they had guns in America. We didn't have guns in England. You know, it was just kind of like maybe a bit more of an aggressive nature. So in a sense, it's like, yeah, we put. Put this violence on tv. The rest of the world sees America as like, you know, their military is kind of everywhere, always doing stuff. You know, all other countries know what America's impact is militarily. And so maybe. Maybe there's something there. Or maybe this was just my mind as a kid moving to America. You know, I think you have a point.

[A]

I think you have a point.

[B]

But there's something there. There was something. I noticed.

[A]

There is. There is. Because over here, it's like. It's crazy because, like, you'll flip through the channels, they'll be playing like, you know, cannibal Holocaust. You go over there, flip through the channels, it's like Wallace and Gromit.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and then some. And then some tits on Channel 5 for some reason.

[A]

Yeah. You're like a perfect follow up. Yeah. My two favorite things in life. Wallace and Gromit. And tits.

[B]

Some tits. Wallace and Gromit is great.

[A]

So good. Such. Such an underrated, I guess, shorts, movies, whatever you want to call them.

[B]

What was it, like, Play doh. Or like Clay?

[A]

It was Clay. Clay, yeah. But so good. Like, the new movie, too, is pretty awesome. Love the one with the Penguin. Anyway, I do want to say this before we move on from predictive programming that.

[B]

So what do we. Well, hold on, hold on. Summarize. What do we decide? There's a little bit of potentially predictive programming going on.

[A]

I think it's more of we're just really desensitized as a society. Everything's about violence. Everything's about all these things. We're just naturally, like. We're just so desensitized. So it's like it almost just happened naturally. Like, no one really had to do this because it was already happening. You know, the predictive programming. Like, we were already prepared. It was already naturally happening.

[B]

I'm with you.

[A]

Now, it's interesting that Avery points out that the producer of Fight Club was a Mossad agent.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Whoops.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Before 9 11. Oh, but yeah, that's a whole. That 911 is a whole nother. It's a whole nother can of worms, man.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I don't know what to think. I don't know what to think about, man.

[B]

Fight Club really is one of my favorite movies, too. It is so good. That movie is just good on so many levels. Brad Pitt.

[A]

It's great. Yeah. Brad Pitt. That dude. When I go to the gym, that's what I imagine I need to look like. That. That is the dream bod. That is, like, the perfect.

[B]

Like, Tyler Durden is just the greatest character ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The freest, coolest, tough, and awesome shape. I mean, I don't know what steroids he was taking to get that ripped or what type of workout he had, but, my God, did he work hard. He basically just made everyone before that look like shit.

[A]

I forget what I was watching. It was some interview, but it was with, like, a personal trainer, and he's like, yeah. Every time I ask someone what they want their, like, you know, their body to look like, they always point to Tyler Durden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which it's, like, the perfect amount of, like, muscle, dude.

[B]

This is how handsome and cool Brad Pitt was in that. Jared Leno was in that movie, and you kind of forget he was. And he's a very handsome guy.

[A]

I totally forgot he was.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. He's. He's the guy that Edward Norton beats up real bad in the.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

He's in it, and he doesn't stand out at all because you put him next to Brad Pitt, you do. You can't even pay attention. You're like, no. Too cool. Too awesome.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everyone else is just nothing.

[A]

That's a good movie, man.

[B]

Made by Mossad. Yeah. Brought to you by Mossad.

[A]

Something. At least Israel did something good.

[B]

Solid. Good work.

[A]

Anyway, you know, we just. We have to talk about it. Nine, 11.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That came out of nowhere.

[A]

It was bound to happen. They really hit all the bubbles here. All the check marks, all the. All the points, all the giveaways.

[B]

Flatter.

[A]

I think the moon landing, they didn't really touch.

[B]

They kind of hit on that. Yeah. I mean, he. He made some references about NASA being bullshit and faking a lot of the footage, because Joe was just like, well, NASA, you know, has all the data and blood. And he's like, you're gonna need. You're gonna believe NASA. And as soon as he said that, I actually was like, oh, yeah. Kind of good. Point. At Charmin, we heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public. So we decided to sing about it.

[A]

Charmin.

[B]

Ultra strong.

[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With a lot of that moon footage, I'm like, kind of a good point, actually, you know?

[A]

Really? But it's. It's so funny watching, like, episodes where Rogan's like, you're. You're kind of out there, man, you know?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Or he's, like, trying to reel back a guess. Like, I don't know. That conspiracy is a little too crazy. That's where. When it gets, like, really fun.

[B]

Oh, it's so good.

[A]

I love. Like, those Eddie Bravo episodes are great.

[B]

Well, I like that Avery didn't take his foot off the gas once. Like, he. He. I think he enjoyed it even more when Rogan was like, no, dude. What? And he's like, yep, but think about it. Come on. He was, like, really trying to take Rogan on a ride. I mean, and he did it in a fun way, too. He wasn't trying to be too pushy, you know, and he was just, like, playing with the story, seeing where Rogan was, like, how he could hook him almost.

[A]

But he kept one. Upping his conspiracies, you know, because there were so many points in everything he was saying where it's like, oh, that's the craziest one he believes in. And then, like, 10 minutes later, oh, no, that's the craziest one he has to believe in. Right? And then, oh, you know, the moon is. You know, it's like, what the. Like, what else it makes you think, like, what. What is the extension of his beliefs? Does he think anything's real?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, is he. Is he an Eddie Bravo? Because it seems like it. That, like, just everything's. I think what he was saying also about the sacrifices in Hollywood.

[B]

Let's hit 911 first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, we gotta.

[A]

We're all. There's so much. There's so much.

[B]

There's so much stuff, though. 9 11.

[A]

Right. Where should we start?

[B]

Well, building seven. We gotta hit that. Obviously.

[A]

We gotta hit.

[B]

We gotta hit it head on. We gotta hit it. We gotta hit it like a plane. Wait, no. Too much.

[A]

We.

[B]

Too soon. I don't know what the limit is on that.

[A]

Have you seen the. The norm joke about 911 where he's like, I lost my Brother during, you know, 9 11, I was walking through blood and bone trying to find him. Apparently he was in northern Canada. Just so stupid.

[B]

I love him. I love the best. He's the best. Yeah. All right.

[A]

We can. We got to be the tower.

[B]

They jump into it and it's like, how the hell did that go down? You know, it's like that one again. And, you know, the investigation is like, you don't have to look too far into that one. And it gets real squirrely. You know, the 911 Commission was that massive report that took years and years, and it's just this huge book of basically nothing bullshit. They're like, yep, didn't find anything. Everything looked perfectly fine. And nothing about finding any of the potential explosive material or all the buildings just fell the way that they would. The building seven went down. That.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That's just a fire. No connection to the fact that all the departments that would have either investigated it all that were under investigation or none of that. Nobody even questioned anything about the fact that there was literally no footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon and then really no parts either of that plane that made any sense. I mean, the most highly secure building probably in the world, and they didn't even have one video that they've ever released. And they don't show us because that's national security. What are they securing? Wouldn't they want to show us? To be like, look what happened. That's really bad.

[A]

Right? I believe. I think they recently, like, literally last year, put out some, like, you know, security camera footage of, like, the crash, but it's so, like, out of frame and out of focus. You have no idea what's happened.

[B]

There's like, video online of what straight up looks like a missile being shot into the Pentagon. Just a missile along the ground. And I don't know if that's real either, but it just looks like a missile.

[A]

It's weird, man. And this is one of the conspiracies where it's like, okay, it makes sense why they would do this with flat earth and all that. It's like, I don't. I don't see it. But, like, George Bush, massive approval spike gains national security powers. The Patriot Act.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Look at what that is now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Surveillance, dude. They wanted. Everybody was behind any invasion that they wanted to do that. The military, industrial. Take them all out. We need revenge, dude. So many other countries were like, yep, we're 100% behind you.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Based on really shitty intel. Oh, Iraq has WMDs. They didn't even have anything to do with 9 11. That's fine.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Get in there, take them out. They get there, no WMDs, no sign of it, nothing. Fine, take them out.

[A]

It's a real convenient coincidence, you know what I mean? I also want to say this. I just kind of want to shove this in there for Epstein. The Epstein files, All Epstein emails before, during and after 911 have been withheld by the government.

[B]

What? Why? I don't know. Suspicious.

[A]

I'm not sure if I want to comment on that.

[B]

Has the review even got to the pointer than me? The review is even got to the point where we can't speak on it. Dude, if the review loses its freedom. If the review loses its freedom, we got nothing free. This. This review is the first amendment. This is where. Yeah. This is why we stay hidden, Brandon. This way no one track us down for good reason. This is why we live in caves away from the public, under a rock. Oh yeah. We go by pseudonyms. Our names are actually Stefan and Roger. We just hide. Yeah, obviously you are obviously that. Clearly. Clearly.

[A]

Now, now I. I want to ask you this now, now that we're in this territory.

[B]

All right?

[A]

What do you think about the dancing Israelis? How much do you know about that?

[B]

Yeah, I've seen the whole things on that one because they brought that up, weren't they? Didn't they end up being a bunch of students or something?

[A]

All right, well, apparently it was so, you know, just to kind of summarize what it is, get it like during 911 they saw five Israelis celebrating by a van, right? You know, watching the. The towers fall. They were reported and arrested. And then after being arrested, it was discovered that a bunch of them work for Israeli intelligence. Oh, and then no more information.

[B]

Gone.

[A]

Don't worry about it. Go to war, vote for a bush. You know, it's, it's. It's interesting. It could just be nothing. You know what I mean? Devil's advocate. Yeah, but I like to think it's nothing.

[B]

But that one is interesting.

[A]

It's not good.

[B]

Why would they be dancing? That doesn't seem like it's a good time to be dancing. What would you be so happy about? You know, unless you knew something. Unless you had like a long intricate plan drawn out and it was all coming together and it had something to do with the Middle east and this overall invasion strategy. I don't know. Yeah, squirrely, squirrely. But here's the thing. Like, just pulling off that plan just seems if any group of people could pull off a plan like that, they seem completely unstoppable. Not only could they pull it off, but they could get away with it as cleanly as they did. I mean, how could you even begin to stop a group like that? That is ultimate power stuff. Well, you've literally got to send James Bond, John Wick, and the Mission Impossible guy. Forget his name, Ethan. I don't know.

[A]

You got to get the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

[B]

Connery. Yes.

[A]

Sean Connery. Frankenstein, Frank Sinatra. I forget what the whole crew is,

[B]

but Jekyll and Hyde.

[A]

Okay. The Lorax, you know, the whole group.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's what's scary about all this. And talking about this and revisiting some of these conspiracy theories are like, Pizzagate was on this level. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. That one's dog.

[A]

And now. And now you talk to your grandma, and she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, they were eating babies.

[B]

We.

[A]

That's common knowledge.

[B]

Yeah. She's on board.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She finally believes humans.

[A]

Cream cheese jerky.

[B]

Well, Avery is like, straight up. They did that. He has no doubt, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And he's saying. They're still doing that. What I thought was interesting, he's like, hey, there's a certain female pop star in Hollywood who sacrifices chickens every day for. It's. I'm like, what? I'm like, let. Can we focus on that a little more? That's what I want to learn about. Because that's insane, right?

[B]

I mean, imagine if. Imagine if you found out that there actually is, like, this kind of wealth and power gain through some sort. I mean, dude, they did sacrifices, either human or animal, for millennia in the past. Now, we like to just think that that was just dumb stuff that they did in the past. You know, that was just, like, ancient people doing a thing. They didn't know what they were doing. They were just worshiping gods and getting it wrong and trying to make it rain or whatever, right? And we're like, look at those idiots doing that. They just didn't know any better. Well, they did it for a long time, a lot of them, all over the world. Imagine if you found out there's actually something to it that works, some sort of weird gains that you get, and there are some people that know it today, and they're willing to do it. Now, me personally, I'd like to believe that I wouldn't take advantage of that knowledge, and I'm not gonna get involved. I'll just try my best in this life and not do It. But you could imagine there would be people that would. They want power and money and whatever. The thing is that it would give you so bad that they could be trying it

[A]

potentially. Maybe that's something we can do. We can, like, sacrifice guinea pigs every

[B]

day for the podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A couple of goldfish per episode.

[A]

It's like in Temple of Doom, like, holding the goldfish's heart up. It's still beating.

[B]

Yeah. Just one gold.

[A]

I don't know. Hey, Predictive programming right there. You never know. But I think it's crazy. It's a tale older than time. They do sacrifices. Societies do sacrifices. And I don't know what this world is anymore.

[B]

It's hard to know, you know? And now people like Avery. I mean, look, dude, 10 years ago, if he had come on Rogan and started chops in a way like this, it. I mean, even if he had come on saying all this right before all the Epstein stuff, he would have sounded way crazier. I mean, a lot more plausible at this point in time. Maybe that's why he asked to come on. I mean, he wasn't plugging anything. He doesn't have, like, a new movie. He just came on. Maybe he was just like, joe, I didn't want to come on. This is good timing for me. I've got a lot of theories. Joe's like, cool. All right. Quentin probably text him and was like, my buddy wants to come on. Can you let him on? He's fun.

[A]

Yeah. And I think he has a film studio in Texas now, right?

[B]

Oh, does he?

[A]

I think he mentioned it briefly. I think he. He's trying to expand Texas, I'm pretty sure.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So potentially. Hey. I mean, I'm in the area. Have me on the show. There we go. So get it done. Yeah. He was great, though, man.

[B]

I like. I liked his thing about the Star Trek Di stuff. I couldn't agree more. I'm a bit of a Trekkie. I do love it. I was a huge fan of Next Generation growing up. It was great escapism for me. I, as a teenager, is like a goofy, nerdy teenager. I just like to watch a lot of that and imagine I was in Starfleet Academy or on a spaceship or whatever the heck was going on. And, you know, that's how all those Trekkies get into it. And he's a huge fan of it. And there was. There's, like. There's great storytelling in that universe, and it all flows together. And what they did with the last couple of shows, I think it's Discovery and the lower decks.

[A]

The.

[B]

No, the. With the Starfleet Academy. The Academy one. They just like super D I kind of shit. I mean, they're awful. Dude, they were so bad. And I'm just glad that he pointed it out and he. He sounded mad. And the fact that he reached out to the guy making it and was like, I will help. I love this world. You know, that whole universe. I want to get involved. I'll help out. All right? I'll do what you need to. And was refused. And it was this bad. I mean, he's got. He's got a real grudge and for good reason.

[A]

And also to add to what you're saying, where the dude's like, well, I don't want anyone working on this project who likes Star Trek.

[B]

Disgusting.

[A]

Famous final words. So many. So many franchises have taken that direction. Halo, for example. I'm a big Halo fan. Yeah. Literally, when 343 took over, their whole idea was like, we just don't want to hire people who like Halo and go in our own direction. Look how. Look how that fucking went. You know, that is there. That never goes right. Why the fuck. Just do your own thing then. Do your own fucking show, you know? How the fuck is the Orville more related to Star Trek at this point than fucking Star Trek?

[B]

Good point.

[A]

Which. Funny, funny. Them bringing up the Orville.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I met a couple of the cast of that at the airport in LA once. I have a picture with them.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

School. Seth McFarland.

[B]

No, the one of the lady and one of the ladies and the. And one of the guys. But they're actually married in real life.

[A]

Little.

[B]

Whatever the couple is that's married in real life. You could Google it. I met them and I was like, I'm a big fan. I hate to do this. Could I get a selfie with you? And they were actually cool and we took one, so. But I like that show. It was good. And it was very Star Trek. Like, they did kind of nail it. I agree with him. He. They got it and they did a good job with it, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. And he was saying he got like an old producer right or something. I'm not.

[B]

Well, they know. They basically hired, like, the whole old cast and crew, but not the cast, but the crew of, like, the old Star Trek. So they. That's why it had such a feeling.

[A]

Wasn't Norm MacDonald like, a slime on that show or something?

[B]

Oh, I think he was. Yeah.

[A]

I'm pretty sure he was like a slime.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, he had a. I saw some

[A]

like clips of that. It's.

[B]

If you haven't seen it, it's good. It's worth watching.

[A]

I'll check it out. I'll check it out. I heard mixed things about season one, but I heard season two is actually pretty solid.

[B]

It's decent.

[A]

Yeah, I'll check it out. I actually, I'll. I'll tell you that I'm more of a Star wars guy. I have to be honest.

[B]

Yeah, fair enough. Star wars is my great world too. That's a great world to get into.

[A]

But recently I have been checking out Next Generation and it's pretty fucking good. Yeah, pretty fucking.

[B]

But either way, don't mess it up. Let me ask you this about the Halo thing though. I'm interested. What was the big criticisms for you in that? A big. Because like I like the games. I played it. I wasn't like huge into it, but I remember hearing that people were very upset about how much he wore the helmet or something. That was pretty.

[A]

Oh, dude, that's a whole nother. That's the show. The Halo show. Oh, that was just fucking terrible.

[B]

You weren't talking about the show. What were you talking about?

[A]

I was talking about the games.

[B]

They fucked the games up.

[A]

They. I think they fucked the games up. They fucked the games up like four games ago.

[B]

Oh really?

[A]

Ever since Halo Reach, which came out in like what, 2010?

[B]

I think so when were they.

[A]

They started fucking it up during Halo 4 was the. The fall because it used to be Bungie, Bungie, Halo 1 to Halo Reach, it was Halo 3, ODS Reach and then Bungie made Destiny and left and then three four, three studios. And I'll just say this real quick. The downfall of any franchise. Star wars is also guilty of this. And 343 is. Is changing canon is changing the rules of the universe and being. Well, actually, even though it's established that this happened and this happened actually this and this happened instead. And you know how this war was settled and it took like three games for this, this war to settle. Actually between games it happened again and we're back into. It's. It's just. It's so. It's like punching your fans in the balls. That's what it feels like, you know. And then that Halo show, dude, where like, like this is just so dumb. I'll get off this tangent soon.

[B]

But no, I like it literally.

[A]

Master Chief. So the Covenant, you know the Covenant, it's like the alien bad guys enemy. So Reach is like a planet that they don't want the COVID Covenant to find. So they get a prisoner. I'm trying to remember the show. They get a prisoner of the Covenants. They. The prisoner goes to prison, and the master Chief goes into the prisoner cell. And then the prisoner fucks Master. A lot of people are calling him Master Cheeks. He the prisoner. And then the prisoner left because, you know, the prisoner, I guess, woke up before Chief, some bullshit, and then escaped. Told the Covenant that, hey, I was on Reach. They're on this planet over here. Then the Covenant attacked the planet, and the whole planet fell. So. Which is not what at all happens in the games. But it's like, what the Is this writing? It makes no sense. Halo's one of my favorite franchises, so it's a whole tangent I can get on. But, like. Like, what the. There's so many franchises out there in, like, site like Star Wars, Halo, Star Trek that just, like, they can go to so easily because the lore and the whole universe, it's like, fans really do care about it because it's so original. Star wars is so original. Star Trek is so original. And when people come into these and be like, well, the old stuff, I'm making my new thing, it's like, who the is gonna like that?

[B]

I just thought with Halo and I like. I liked the setup of it. Like, the costumes were good. I thought the Pablo character was solid. You know, they kind of matched it. I was like. I could see him being the master chief, but there was just so much, like, his emotions and how he kind of felt. He was having a rough day all the time, and I'm like, just go around Merc and everything. Just have nothing but cool action and be a badass. That would be sweet.

[A]

But it was what's cool about the games. What's cool about the games. The whole story is that Chief is like a robot. Like, he's this super weapon the UNSC uses as the ultimate soldier. And he's. He's like this machine where Cortana is an AI. Literally, a machine that's more human than him and pretty much over the games, teaches him kind of, like humanity in a sense, you know, and they bond over that. And that's what I thought was really interesting. And in the games, in the. In the TV show, they all over that and then throw it at a wall. It's like. It's.

[B]

He was. He was like a bit of a crybaby. And then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was just like, what are you doing? Come here. Stop it.

[A]

And he's like, I actually want to just like the Prisoner, which was strange.

[B]

That whole thing was strange. Well, you know what's interesting? That guy Pablo, he used to train in my jiu jitsu gym in Santa Monica.

[A]

No shit?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He wasn't that good. He's a big guy.

[A]

I remember huge. When I was in Austin, when I was living in Austin, they had this giant poster of Master Chief without the helmet. And so like, you'd be walking on 6th street and you would just see him and I'd be like, ruin the franchise. And I'm mad at the time.

[B]

Yeah, people are mad at it.

[A]

But I will say, great actor, great actor.

[B]

He is good in a lot of movies, dude. He's great in a bunch of movies.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. But just seeing like, just Matt hit, the character of Master Chief in the show was pissing me off.

[B]

Yeah, that was.

[A]

I. I bet he. He's done some good stuff. I'd love to. He doesn't deserve any of this hate. He's. He's the actor, he's not the writer.

[B]

Of course, of course.

[A]

I hate when people attack actors for no reason, even though I kind of low key did. But yeah. Hey, this episode though, regardless of Halo.

[B]

Back on track.

[A]

Let's Get Back on Track. Is. Was really good because I'm. I love film. I'm a little bit of a film buff. I love conspiracies. This was just such a beautiful cocktail. Oh, yeah, it really was.

[B]

I mean, he straight up said the billionaires are eating babies. He believes it 100%. The cannibals exist for sure. The codes mean it. He even made a reference to the Exorcist and how there's that rape story in there and the lady makes the reference, or somebody makes a reference to be like, oh, yeah, well, I like pizza, but I wouldn't marry it. And if that's not. That was in the 70s, dude. Like, is that a coincidence or is that just, like really bad timing for somebody? I like pizza, but I wouldn't marry it. Think about that in terms of the code words.

[A]

I don't know how deep these roots run.

[B]

That one's ugly. Who talks about marrying pizza? Yeah, well, if pizza means child, that's pretty fucking gross. You put it in a movie so that, like, really the only people that get it are all those people in that world that are like, hey, that's fun.

[A]

That's fun.

[B]

You put that in there. Good times.

[A]

That was. That was so, so messed up. I thought that was an interesting take on that movie, though. The whole idea of, like, the director's connection with it, you know, and the whole idea of how secret messages. Spiritual filmmaking is. And script writing. Yeah, all that. Where he was talking about, like, voice. Like, things just pop into his head. Dialogue just pops into his head. It's like someone's putting it in there. Well, he said that was really interesting,

[B]

that every director puts in, like, secret coded messages, basically. Like, that's. That's happening all the time. It's like, yeah, of course we do. This is what we do. We all doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wild. I don't know.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

I'm trying to think crazy world. Oh, and lastly, Epstein ordered 330 gallons of sulfuric acid, like, the day he was indicted for his island. What in the F was that? And then Jamie looked it up. That's the only time they ever ordered that for that island. So, no, it wasn't a cleaning product.

[A]

Maybe it was a cool science experiment or something.

[B]

What the heck were they dissolving? What was on that island that they needed to really quickly get rid of? I mean, that's a very strong 330 gallons. They had a lot of stuff they needed to get rid of.

[A]

I feel like, you know, you walk in there before, and it was like an Aztec bone temple or something.

[B]

Yeah. Like just piles of bodies. I mean, what do you need that much for?

[A]

I don't know. I. Like, I've been a little deep down in this iceberg. The stuff for Epstein, there's evidence that they were doing gene splicing as well.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They were making, like, Neanderthals. Like, oh, it's real messed up. Where they're saying, yeah, we're like. They were talking about making, like, human dog hybrids and all these, like, other crazy hybrids to, like, with kids, you know, like, to scare them and who knows what else. Like, who knows what else.

[B]

Get the adrenochromes. Yeah.

[A]

Because get them all riled up, and it's just crazy. And this is stuff you can look up, like in the files. Go on JMail. JMail's a good website. I think I showed you that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We were talking about it.

[A]

Where you can look up names. You can look up, like, if you look up Pizza on JMail, you look up cream cheese. Like, I was sick.

[B]

It's gross.

[A]

The other night, looking up that stuff, being like, I gotta get off or drink or something.

[B]

I mean, look, there was a lot of buzz around this episod film. Nerds loved it. The conspiracy people loved it. I mean, people got worked up about the flat earth stuff, but, like, the Old school Rogan people. Some got uncomfortable with the conspiracies. Some were on the edge of their seat. I mean, it brought a lot of people back to the table. And, you know, I got a bunch of messages about how fun this was. And for me, I mean, you know, Brandon brought this up to me, like, let's review this one. I. I was kind of. I saw it was the Pulp Fiction guy. I was kind of interested in checking it out, but there was some other good episodes this week. I was kind of thinking of skipping over it as a major review, but as soon as I started listening to it, it grabbed my attention from the beginning. I enjoyed it a great deal.

[A]

Nothing boring. Nothing boring about it.

[B]

Ran it through the online AI for like looking at Reddit, Twitter and all the comments everywhere. It solid 8.7 and 8.7 for the online. That's a high score. I mean, I give it a solid 8 out of 10. For me, it's a solid 8. I really enjoyed this episode. I mean, yeah, I'd have him back on, you know, I think he is Joe.

[A]

Literally, he's like, we got to do this again.

[B]

We gotta do this again.

[A]

He's like, hey, it's been over three hours. We gotta. We gotta wrap.

[B]

We gotta wrap it up. But know there's more to be said again.

[A]

Yeah, there's so many other conspiracy theories.

[B]

So good, so good. So check it out. Definitely take a look. And there's going to be more. More Epstein this week. And stay tuned. It's just getting wilder and wilder. Thank you so much and we'll talk to you soon, ladies and gents. Bye.

[A]

See.