509 JRE Review of Michael Malice

Summary

JRE Review Podcast #509 – Review of Michael Malice on the Joe Rogan Experience

Date: February 27, 2026 | Host: Adam Thorne, with Pete

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Adam Thorne and co-host Pete break down Michael Malice’s latest appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience. Malice, an author, political commentator, and anarchist thinker, brings his characteristic mix of sharp humor, skepticism of authority, and provocative takes. The hosts explore his reframing of anarchism, critiques of power structures, responses to current events, and the dynamic with Rogan. The review unpacks highlights, tangents, and the shifting tone of Rogan’s approach to contentious topics.

---

Main Themes and Discussion Points

1. Who is Michael Malice? (01:03–02:10)

• Adam introduces Malice as a recurring JRE guest known for challenging both left and right mainstream narratives with wit and skepticism.
• Malice is described as “a good dude,” but his “face paint thing” in the episode is roasted as “a bit silly.”

  "He reframes anarchism as skepticism towards coercive authority rather than chaos." – Adam Thorne (03:11)

2. Anarchism: Skepticism, Not Chaos (03:11–07:15)

• Malice begins the JRE episode by explaining anarchism not as literal chaos, but as deep suspicion of coercive authority.

• Pete and Adam joke about types of anarchists, with Pete referencing “Dead Kennedy style” and mocking the perception of anarchy as “throwing bricks through windows.”

• The hosts recognize that “being a conspiracy theorist is now the norm” and that skepticism of government and institutions is at an all-time high.

  “People assume that government equals order... but historically many forms of order existed without centralized control.” – Adam Thorne paraphrasing Malice (05:18)

3. Power and Order: Centralization vs. Market Solutions (06:17–08:38)

• Rogan pushes Malice on pragmatic concerns: if not government, who builds roads, provides emergency services?

• Malice answers with decentralization and “market solutions,” which Pete and Adam critique as vulnerable to greed and corruption.

• Witty asides about the infamous "$500 hammer" as a symbol of government waste.

  “Seems like every time the free market gets a hold of something, if there’s not checks, inflation goes crazy. They have their own problems and people steal money.” – Pete (06:39)

4. Skepticism and Compliance: Lessons from COVID (13:06–16:48)

• The episode shifts to the psychology of obedience: even skeptics tend to comply with authority.

• The pandemic is cited as an example of mass compliance, where “almost everybody fell in line” despite prior disbelief this was possible.

  “I am still to this day shocked by how efficiently almost everybody fell in line.” – Adam Thorne (13:09)

• Social pressure, policy compliance, and the discouragement (even banning) of questioning experts during COVID are discussed.

• Both hosts muse about deteriorating trust in experts and how the manipulation of narratives eroded that trust.

  “Pressure is actually far more powerful than experts.” – Adam Thorne (16:01)

5. Media Narratives and Manufactured Realities (17:36–22:12)

• Malice’s disdain for the manipulation of media narratives is highlighted; the hosts note Rogan’s reluctance to wade fully into specific media controversies (e.g., Ben Shapiro’s current online backlash).

• Pete speculates Rogan has become more cautious with his stances and guests, citing his billionaire connections and desire to avoid “getting right in the middle of something with controversy.”

  “It’s a difficult time for many of these guys in the media... they’re getting as much distrust, energy, and skepticism towards them.” – Adam Thorne (20:31)

6. Rogan’s Interview Style: Shifting and Self-Aware (23:06–26:39)

• The hosts observe that Rogan is keeping things lighter, joking more, and sometimes steering clear of deep dives into issues like Epstein.

• The speculation arises around why Rogan didn’t ask more probing questions of controversial guests (e.g., Epstein’s chef, Adam Perry Lang – [29:12]).

  “He had Epstein’s chef on... and they didn’t talk about Epstein one time.” – Pete (29:12)

7. Ideology as Identity and Defending Belief (33:39–37:54)

• Malice discusses how people internalize ideology as a core part of their identity, leading to defense of positions even against new evidence.

• Adam and Pete riff on friends parroting beliefs as if they’d “done research,” when really they’re repeating ideas absorbed passively.

  “When facts are presented, opinions must change, otherwise you’re no longer relevant... That’s when you get old.” – Pete (34:54)

• They note "disagreement as moral threat" has become the norm in online discourse, but argue for being able to separate friendship and political argument.

8. Assisted Suicide, Ethics, and Personal Stories (38:00–44:42)

• The episode dips into a serious discussion of assisted suicide, referencing Gavin Newsom’s (Governor of California) experience with his mother.

• Malice is critical of Newsom, but Rogan defends the pain-relief logic of assisted suicide.

• Pete shares a personal story about his grandmother “Gam Gam” choosing medial assistance in dying, expressing conflicted feelings about the process and its risks (manipulation, slippery slopes).

  “That’s a very brave decision... But still, I’m conflicted about the morals of it.” – Pete (42:51)

• The discussion covers the potential for abuse and eugenics-like thinking, as well as calls for careful ethical scrutiny.

9. Incentives and Bureaucracies (46:12–47:39)

• Malice refocuses on how incentives, rather than intentions, shape outcomes—particularly in bureaucracies that grow beyond their original missions.

• US AID and non-profits as covers for covert operations are cited.

• Adam notes repeated examples of “narrative formation” as a Malice specialty.

  “Malice doesn't try to win the arguments here. He tries to change the lens.” – Adam Thorne (50:58)

---

Notable Quotes

• “He reframes anarchism as skepticism towards coercive authority rather than chaos.” – Adam Thorne (03:11)
• “Being conspiracy theorist is now the norm. Everybody is.” – Pete (04:47)
• “Pressure is actually far more powerful than experts.” – Adam Thorne (16:01)
• “I am still to this day shocked by how efficiently almost everybody fell in line.” – Adam Thorne (13:09)
• “He had Epstein’s chef on... and they didn’t talk about Epstein one time.” – Pete (29:12)
• “That’s a very brave decision... But still, I’m conflicted about the morals of it.” – Pete (42:51)
• “Malice doesn't try to win the arguments here. He tries to change the lens.” – Adam Thorne (50:58)

---

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 01:03–02:10 | Introduction to Malice, his philosophy and style | | 03:11–07:15 | Anarchism and skepticism as a philosophy | | 13:06–16:48 | COVID, authority, and the psychology of compliance | | 17:36–22:12 | Media narratives, Rogan’s shifting approach | | 29:12 | Rogan's controversial “Epstein chef” episode | | 33:39–37:54 | Ideology as identity, argument vs. friendship | | 38:00–44:42 | Assisted suicide discussion, Pete’s personal story | | 46:12–47:39 | Incentives > intentions in bureaucracy | | 50:15–50:58 | Critics’ takes: too abstract, but mind-expanding | | 51:28–51:34 | Teasers for next episode reviews (Brewer, RFK Jr.) |

---

Memorable Moments and Tangents

• Jokes about JNCOs and “my legs get too big from working out” (03:02–03:09)
• Satirical shots at politicians, especially Gavin Newsom and his “greasy hair” (10:01)
• Lighthearted COVID-19 throwbacks: elbow bumps, French kissing, “autistic walking,” and mailman calves (16:48–17:19)
• The recurring gag on Ben Shapiro's height in Instagram comments (19:30–20:14)
• Satirizing the ethics of assisted suicide via Monty Python and Futurama references (44:22–45:06)
• Team America’s “hammer suicide” scene as dark comic relief (46:12)

---

Overall Impression & Final Thoughts

• Hosts’ Verdict: Solid episode; not as Epstein-focused as expected but rich in meta-conversation about power, narrative, ideology, and trust.
• Online Vibe: “A solid 8 out of 10... had that Rogan energy: conspiracy, shitting on the powers that be, but loose and fun.” (50:33)
• Malice’s Impact: Renowned for reframing debates—not offering hard solutions, but shifting how power structures are viewed.
• Fans & Critics: Praised for philosophical depth, but some find Malice abstract or vague. Overall, a staple episode for those who enjoy JRE’s blend of skepticism and open-ended searching.

---

Looking Ahead

• Next JRE Review episodes will tackle Jim Brewer and RFK Jr.—promising more conspiratorial and political deep dives.

---

“Malice doesn't try to win the arguments here. He tries to change the lens. The conversation keeps returning to one uncomfortable idea: systems behave predictably even when people don't.”
— Adam Thorne (50:58)

---

Listen if you enjoy:

• Free-flowing conversations about authority, trust, media, and society’s narratives
• Banter that moves from metaphysical to absurd
• Honest, sometimes uncomfortable explorations of power and consent

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Mayra Ameth]

A Mochi moment from Sadie who writes, I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Mayra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com

[Adam Thorne]

Sadie is emoji member compensated for her story.

[Amazon Music Advertiser]

Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's identity is about to be revealed during that perfect meditation flow? On Amazon Music, we believe in keeping you in the moment. That's why we've got millions of ad free podcast episodes. So you can stay completely immersed in every story, every reveal, every breath. Download the Amazon music app and start. Start listening to your favorite podcasts ad free included with Prime.

[Adam Thorne]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host, Adam Thorne. Might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One go. Enjoy the show. Hey, guys, and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Today I'm joined by Pete and we are breaking down the Michael Malice episode. Michael's an author, political commentator, cultural critic, known for his anarchist philosophy, sharp humor, and ability to challenge mainstream narratives from both the left and the right. He frequently appears on the Joe Rogan Experience. I believe this is like his 12th time. He talked about. Did he say 12th or 8th or. I can't remember, but a lot of times. And you know, he's on to discuss power structures, media narratives, ideology, and the psychology behind political belief. Malice blends philosophy, sarcasm and provocation, which makes these conversations feel like cultural analysis more than political debate. Honestly, I'm a big fan of Michael. I didn't really care for his face paint thing. I felt like that was just a bit silly.

[Pete]

Yeah, he's silly.

[Adam Thorne]

He's a silly man. Silly, silly man. But he said he's working out a lot. He's bulking. He didn't like being accused of bulking, though.

[Pete]

He seemed, he seemed weird about the whole thing.

[Adam Thorne]

He's getting defensive.

[Pete]

It was weird. Like, just talk about working out, buddy.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, it's, it's all right. I know you're intimidated by Joe because he's just way stronger than you and, you know, but it's okay. Just, just be, just be cool. And then he was like, I can't Work out my legs because they get too big. What do you want?

[Pete]

It sounds like he's been working out for like two weeks. If you ask me. That's like something I would say when I'm like 14.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, my legs get too big.

[Pete]

My forearms are actually ridiculously jacked.

[Adam Thorne]

They won't fit my jeans. What? You can't buy new jeans?

[Pete]

Jncos.

[Adam Thorne]

Bless.

[Pete]

Wear some jncos.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, we're already picking on them folks. But he's a good dude. Good dude. Yeah, he kind of opened up with like a bit of a kind of anarchism explained piece. You know, he reframes anarchism as skepticism towards coercive authority rather than chaos. So are we just. Anytime we're skeptical of authority, are we anarchists or is it seems extreme when

[Pete]

you throw a brick through a window? That's anarchy.

[Adam Thorne]

It seems more anarchy.

[Pete]

I don't know. I'm more of a Dead Kennedy style anarchist. If I was going to be, that's like burn it all down.

[Adam Thorne]

And that's what you'd like to think that you are.

[Pete]

That's. I'm very. I. I play by the rules, everybody. That's why I have not got ahead. I obey my taxes, play by the rules.

[Adam Thorne]

But yeah, he's just kind of saying that is the anarchy of the day. I think he's just encouraging people to be skeptical. And there's a lot of skepticism, skepticism these days. Bush people, that was a Bush ism all day. But people really are, I think more skeptical than ever of many institutions. Whether it's just the government as a whole, the CIA, what the FBI up to, what we're being told. It's like it's hard to believe any of it and take any of it seriously. Like what direction do you go down the.

[Pete]

Being a conspiracy theory is now the theorist. Being conspiracy theorist is now the norm. Everybody is. The young kids, either they don't care or they don't believe anything.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

That's kind of. They're like nihilist because it's all. It's all fake and retarded.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It's just. It's hard to know what is going on.

[Pete]

It seems like they got a good grasp over it though. Michael seems like he's got a lot of cool stuff to say about all this stuff. He's wicked smart.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. I mean, you know, Mike Malice explains that people assume that the government equals order. Right. That's what the government is doing. But historically many forms of order existed without centralized control. He's not a big fan of that centralized control model at all.

[Pete]

We have to have some order. Of course, there's different levels of ordering a society starting at the family unit on up to a nation and then a globe. So we, depending on the numbers of people, you have to fall into one of the levels of order.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

If you're just living in the woods with your family, it's just the patriarchy or the mom top down in that sense. But if you have a village, then you probably have to get a head guy that collects some money to keep the potholes filled. So if we don't have order in that regard, we don't have a society.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, Rogan brings that up and he even asked malice. Well then in that case, if you don't have kind of centralized control like this, what replaces things like roads and emergency services? Well, malice did reference what's market solutions and decentralized models. It's kind of like the free market will do.

[Pete]

Seems like every time the free market gets a hold of something, if there's not checks, inflation goes crazy. They have their own problems and people steal money.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's just that greedy shit.

[Pete]

But the government does that too. $500 for a hammer. Come on.

[Adam Thorne]

Come on. Probably a good hammer.

[Pete]

I think they're just $5 for the hammer and 495 for the space program or the reverse engineering spacecraft.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. $500 hammer. I want it hammering its own nails in.

[Pete]

Yeah, that's. I got a pretty cool hammer.

[Adam Thorne]

That'd be dope. Yeah, be dope. I mean, you know, malice, even jokes. Like people imagine Mad Max when they're hearing of anarchism, you know, which shows kind of how branding shapes perception. But it's. He's saying no, it's not that at all. It's just skepticism to the point where people just kind of give up on, I guess, playing by the rules. That all the control that government has over people. And I assume that means that eventually the government just has to start applying more pressure to get us to behave.

[Pete]

Yeah. Or the opposite, which is give powers back to us and reduce its size. But that's probably not going to happen. It'd be nice to have a little more freedom and less taxes or taxes that I wouldn't mind even paying more taxes if I had something to show for it, like free health care or incentive to buy houses, stuff like that. It's like a lot of European countries were successful with that until their welfare system ballooned and they no longer have any funds.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

But the Scandinavian countries had a Lot of taxes. But yeah, they had a lot of services that those things literally paid for.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

And no crime.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It was actually going to somewhere useful.

[Pete]

Yeah. But here, I don't know.

[Adam Thorne]

You got something to believe in.

[Pete]

They just sign away so much money that they just take from us. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

And then, you know, like, all that fraud that's being uncovered in California, now that that guy is down there.

[Pete]

The Nick.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. He's down there having a snoop around. Look around, and he's like, look what we're finding. I bet Gavin Newsom is like, kick him out of the state.

[Pete]

Gavin Newsom? Yeah, he's just hack.

[Adam Thorne]

We always need like a couple of minutes every episode to just recently see

[Pete]

that thing where he's like, I can't read good either. Just like you guys.

[Adam Thorne]

But that was unbelievably rude. And they were all clapping.

[Pete]

He's like, I'm just like you guys. I'm just an idiot that can't read.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I got 900 on my asset, just like you. I can't. You ever seen me read a speech? I'm blind. I can't read.

[Pete]

But then he's like. Previously on record saying he read a 250 page book in one hour.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete]

Just everything's a lie at the side of his mouth.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Just turns into whatever he needs to be for that day.

[Pete]

With a lot of hand flapping around

[Adam Thorne]

like the ultimate politician. That's why he's good, though.

[Pete]

His greasy hair and his gravely voice. I guess he's handsome too. I hate him.

[Adam Thorne]

It's. It's so frustrating. I mean, I really do want him to be the best pick at some point. Just to watch how he. There's gonna just be so many people that don't fall for it, though. I think there's no way he can win over enough people. Like, he'd just be one of those guys that, like, gets close. Ish.

[Pete]

I mean, especially if you are in California and you have a little bit of a head on your shoulders, you're gonna say, wait a minute, this guy again. That's the guy.

[Adam Thorne]

The guy that did this to our state, now is gonna do it to our country. No thanks.

[Pete]

Unless you're just voting party lines, which are. We don't recommend.

[Adam Thorne]

Could happen. It could happen. Yeah. They also talk a little bit about the psychology of obedience. And this was interesting. You know, malice emphasizes that people obey authority, even when skeptical internally. This podcast is brought to you by Brooklyn Bedding. I love a good origin story, and Brooklyn Bedding has one of my favorites. John, the founder literally built this company from the ground up in Arizona without a college degree. Just pure grit and intentional craftsmanship. You can actually feel that pride in every stitch of their mattresses. Brooklyn Bedding handcrafts every mattress in their Arizona factory. No middlemen, no gimmicks. Just top tier quality, honest pricing and real American craftsmanship for a better night's sleep. And trust me, these mattresses are Fantastic. Go to BrooklynBedding do and use my promo code JRE at checkout to get 30% off sitewide. This offer is not available anywhere else. That's BrooklynBedding.com and promo code J R E R for 30% off site wide. Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout. BrooklynBetting.com promo code JRE confronting high credit

[National Debt Relief Advertiser]

card debt can feel scary. But the good news is if you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe and put you on the fast track to becoming debt free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Just visit nationaldebtrelief.com Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over 550,000 US earning thousands of five star reviews and an A rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Let today be the day you start turning things around. Take the first step and visit nationaldebtrelief.com to see what debt relief you may qualify for. That's nationaldebtrelief.com right?

[Adam Thorne]

It's like you kind of have to. You feel that pressure.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And you know, I mean, we saw that so much during COVID for one. And I still to this day I'm kind of shocked by how efficiently almost everybody fell in line. It was like they make the rules and if somebody had just told you before many of those rules had come to place that they were going to happen. And then what do I as an individual think people will do once that happens? I'd be like, well, they're not going to follow it, like no way. Like not go to work or just stop all their business. You know, it was like all of

[Pete]

it was just not play basketball.

[Adam Thorne]

So much of it was like, well, obviously there's going to be so much pushback that they're just going to have to find some sort of middle ground. There was no middle ground. They just pushed harder and harder and harder until almost everything was shut. Almost everywhere.

[Pete]

Yeah. Well, in California, but there were some places that were just. There's some bastions of freedom left in the United States, thank goodness.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, the US did a good job in a lot of places like that, for sure. But yeah, I mean, the pandemic policy of compliance and how even questioning was like socially discouraged early on. Questioning anything was. That was even banned.

[Pete]

Yeah, it'll get. Would get you banned, get you fired,

[Adam Thorne]

get you in a lot of trouble,

[Pete]

get your family broken up, friends unfriending each other.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, people were turning on each other left and right.

[Pete]

I think it was a good. A good thing in the long run for us because now I hope we've learned and won't. That won't let. That won't be so easily dissuaded. You know, false flag attacks are now that's on the front of everybody's lips. False flag attacks. Oh, who attacked who? Who really attacked who?

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

And then. Oh, another plandemic. Is Bill Gates funding this one as well or we just can't. There's so much, so much skepticism.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, it's a shame because we really did before that most people did defer to experts for answers in almost everything. You know, it was like, oh, well, if all the. If the majority of the experts are saying that this is happening, we need to do it this way. Well, they're the experts, so that's fine, obviously. But when it came to things like Covid, because there was so much manipulation in the narrative then and that started to become clear that all of a sudden we realized, whoa, wait a second. What are the experts? Are they just waiting around for a narrative to be told?

[Pete]

And then we saw the experts.

[Adam Thorne]

Pressure actually far more powerful than experts. Well, yes, we found out that's true by a long way. Yeah.

[Pete]

Yes. Because the experts were idiots. The CDC run. The people that ran the cdc. What should we do? Oh, six feet. Or what should we do? Let's not do a Super bowl this year. Or just silly stuff. Arbitrary.

[Adam Thorne]

Remember when they had the cutouts, like the cardboard cutouts of the games and you could like put your face on there or something.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Pay to God. All those zoom calls. And they were like, we're bringing people back together with zoom calls.

[Pete]

It's like you'll have nothing and be happy and you won't. You'll see your friends and be delighted. You will see your friends on a screen and be Delighted.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And everyone was touching with elbows.

[Pete]

I'm back to mouth kissing.

[Adam Thorne]

That's safe.

[Pete]

Yeah, Grandma.

[Adam Thorne]

Everyone French kissing. Everyone. Just to make up for Covid times.

[Pete]

Get in here.

[Adam Thorne]

Come on, Pete. That's the mailman. Leave him alone.

[Pete]

Look at his calves, though.

[Adam Thorne]

He's just doing his job.

[Pete]

The size of them.

[Adam Thorne]

Why do they always wear shorts? It's a hot job.

[Pete]

They're moving around and they have great calves.

[Adam Thorne]

Show them off, strong people. Those boxes they're carrying around.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Tiptoe exercises.

[Pete]

Autistic walking on the toes, Autism style. This is a sign of autism.

[Adam Thorne]

Is it?

[Pete]

Yeah. If, like, a little kid always tiptoes around. Uh oh.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe he's just trying to reach places.

[Pete]

Too many vaccines. Oh, okay.

[Adam Thorne]

RFK coming up this week we are banned. RFK Jr coming up this week. What about media narratives? They get onto that, like, the manufactured reality. And, you know, this stuff drives malice nuts, you know, because he's on the forefront of these sorts of things, and he's always kind of combating that and playing. Definitely playing devil's advocate about those sorts of things. They didn't really bring up any Ben Shapiro stuff on this episode, and both of those two know him well enough. It's like everyone is just skirting that whole topic right now. I wonder. I wonder why they're not bringing up the absolute bashing that Ben is getting online.

[Pete]

I don't. I don't want to believe it, but I think that Joe has definitely stepped away from stirring up any trouble, mostly because he has five rotating billionaires on his podcast, all of which were on the Epstein files. And he's having a few people in his ear, I'm sure. And Benny Boy is well funded by some of those people.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You think he's struggling with it?

[Pete]

Joe's having an issue. He's taking a lot of flack from. From the YouTube warriors, the podcast reviewers.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, I'm looking at Ben's three last posts to Instagram right now, and I can't even read 50% of the comments on the pod. And this pod is explicit and totally unedited. I can't read some of them.

[Pete]

We fly by the seat of our pants. We can't even say those.

[Adam Thorne]

No. And, like, there's a lot of emojis. The least. The least offensive is still on there. It's just a comment out of nowhere that says, Ben Shapiro is literally 5 foot 2.

[Pete]

I mean, there's nothing wrong with being 5 foot 2, but you can't be a dick.

[Adam Thorne]

Why does he hate America so much. I mean, it just. And he's definitely done something to his comments to, like, close them down, you know, to, like, limit the comments because of the way they're hitting. Like, he has a post today, and it only has 44 comments on. I mean, he's followed by, like, millions of people. He's not even getting a thousand likes on some of his posts.

[Pete]

I think that the smoke screen of the Daily Wire is fading away, and they better do something quick. Maybe put somebody else in. Do the old Brett Cooper move and put someone else just looks just like him and does the same thing. Just get his face out of there. People don't like it anymore.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I'm looking at comments on another one of the posts, too. Same guy, Ben Shapiro is literally 5 foot 2. He's just putting on every single one of these. It's just fair play to him. That's funny. That is funny. If you like making fun of Ben for being short, you know, objectively funny. But, yeah, I don't know. It's like, it's a difficult time for many of these guys in the media right now. They, you know, they're getting as much distrust, energy and skepticism towards them. And I think Rogan is just somewhat taken a step back. Like, look, he somehow still kind of has, like, political commentators and politicians on RFK junior Comes on later in the week still talking to him. But the way he's talking to them, I think is changed. You're noticing that?

[Pete]

Yeah, I'm noticing that.

[Adam Thorne]

It's quite a bit, you know, he's like, just somewhat staying out of it, which he doesn't. Do you think it's just like a headache?

[Pete]

That's fine by me.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Does he need to throw himself in the deep end with everything? Like, does it necessarily have to? And I'm not trying to stick up for him because I do the review podcast. Right. I'm just saying. I'm just playing a part here. Right. I'm saying, could it just be that he's like, you know what? I don't want to keep getting right in the middle of something with controversy. Like, he still has plenty of opinions where he's just like, I don't care for that, or that's messed up. Oh, that's not.

[Pete]

He's not. It doesn't seem like he's shying away from people that want to talk about it. He's not shying away from. From indulging those pretty terrible theories.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, he had Avery on shouting about how they're all Eating babies and the pizza.

[Pete]

And he was 100%. He's got Metzger on.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Who is very convincing.

[Adam Thorne]

Yes.

[Pete]

I like that guy.

[Adam Thorne]

He is hilarious also. He's down every rabbit hole.

[Pete]

I liked his hat a lot better than I liked Malice's face paint. Tell you that, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

His badger hat or something.

[Adam Thorne]

Uh huh. He's a character. Yeah. Mask is kind of on fire at the moment.

[Pete]

They did. They got into the Epstein a little bit, but this was. I'm. I noticed that Joe was chopping it up a little more, like trying to make Malice laugh a little more. Joe was like kind of.

[Homeserve Advertiser]

It never happens at a good time. The pipe bursts at midnight. The heater quits on the coldest night. Suddenly you're overwhelmed. That's when Homeserv is here. For $4.99 a month, you're never alone. Just call their 24. 7 hotline and a local pro is on the way. Trusted by millions, HomeServe delivers peace of mind when you need it most. For plants Starting at just $4.99 a month, go to HomeServe.com, that's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Mayra Ameth]

We all prefer things a certain way, like groceries. If you want groceries just how you like them, you gotta try Instacart. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices. Because when it comes to groceries, the details matter. Instacart get groceries just how you like.

[Adam Thorne]

Goofing around, keeping it light.

[Pete]

It was nice.

[Adam Thorne]

Keeping it light.

[Pete]

It's nice to have like a old Joe back in a way.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, it also is because Malice can have a tendency of just getting really deep and serious into something and then it's just like a long slog of like, you know, a diatribe of what he's thinking, feeling. And this whole, you know, just goes straight down one topic for a long time. So, yeah, it was like kind of keeping it light. But did you think it was unusual that there wasn't more talk in the direction of Epstein? I felt like this was going to be a heavy Epstein episode.

[Pete]

Thought so too. I thought so too.

[Adam Thorne]

It was surprising to me.

[Pete]

Yeah, about like 10 minutes. And then the rest was just everything else.

[Adam Thorne]

Mm.

[Pete]

And that whatever he's gonna have someone else on that's gonna get into that stuff. It's just.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I almost wanted, like, I wonder if, since he's just piecemealing together the Epstein stuff, I wonder if someone could go through and make a compilation of all the little chunks that have been talked about about Epstein with Joe since the release on all the different episodes and make a whole episode out of that and just, you know, chronologically do it so it makes sense so there's not a jumping around and see if there's, like, actually somewhat of a consensus opinion that he's throwing out there.

[Pete]

Yeah, there might be one of those things. YouTube, like that.

[Adam Thorne]

Be interesting. Be interesting. I'm just hoping again for, like, one of the big names to come on and really just summarize this whole bitch once it's done. And I've just got a feeling. Almost has to be an Alex Jones episode. And now when I bring that up, I'm getting a lot of pushback. People, like, no chance he's not coming back on, but if anything could bring him back on, like the thing that Alex basically called out, like, well over a decade ago, I think a long time ago, he called out that island and what was happening.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And for him to now come on and be like, told you. This is where we're at, though. Supposedly he's even being a bit weird.

[Pete]

Yeah. He's glazing Trump's involvement.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

And not. Not addressing it, which is, you know, not great for. For my. Because I want to be a fan of Alex's. It's. He's a fun guy to. To listen to. He's funny.

[Adam Thorne]

He feels like he's fighting against something else and he needs. He needs Trump to be doing something. You know what I mean? He's like, found another enemy and he's

[Pete]

like, well, he did have to pay the. A billion dollars. Right. To families of Sandy Hook.

[Adam Thorne]

Do you think he's hoping for a Trump pardon?

[Pete]

I think that he.

[Adam Thorne]

By kissing Trump's ass.

[Pete]

I think he needs money. He's probably broke.

[Adam Thorne]

No doubt.

[Pete]

Like, he's probably getting paid.

[Adam Thorne]

You think someone's slipping him some cash?

[Pete]

He's getting money. Like, he's got. He's got. Tied his horse to Trump and somebody's paying.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, that's a fun conspiracy.

[Pete]

I hope that I'm not true. Not right.

[Adam Thorne]

Alex Jones is pulled off.

[Pete]

Why else would he do this?

[Adam Thorne]

We can get to anyone. Enough cash, enough gold.

[Pete]

Speaking of getting to anybody, these. They were talking about who's easier to blackmail. Like, Michael. Michael was and Joe were talking about that. Who's the easiest to blackmail? It's obviously males because women aren't going to be put. Gonna be falling into some hot dudes honey pot, you know? No, just like who's gonna honey pot? Hillary Clinton. She's ice queen. She's not getting black like that.

[Adam Thorne]

But they like money and power.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You can give them some of that. Anyone can be bribed.

[Pete]

That's what I was thinking too. They have to be.

[Adam Thorne]

Everybody wants something in a different way.

[Pete]

They can be. Be bought and leveraged.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

But it is, it's easiest with like people like Lindsey Graham, who allegedly likes the fellas, and he's a conservative Republican in a conservative state, so he's gotta hide it. Therefore easily controlled.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. How would you get to Joe, do you think? Maybe that's happening? Maybe that's what you are noticing? Maybe how you get to Joe is you befriend him to some billionaires that just happen to be connected to some of the big things going on. And Joe therefore just takes a little step back and that's the best you can get out of him. Because you can't. You can't buy him.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, if he notices anything, he's gonna. He's gonna just be like, nah, nah, nah. Not having that. I've gotta stay impartial and have my free speech and just keep my opinions. But if he's got his buddies like Elon and some of the other big players, he's like, well, I'll just kind of skirt around some of their issues that they're involved in. Not really bring it up too much.

[Pete]

Why did he have Epstein chef on?

[Adam Thorne]

You remember that episode he had Epstein chef on?

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Really?

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Get out of here.

[Pete]

We'll look that one up.

[Adam Thorne]

Let's look it up.

[Pete]

But he had Epstein chef on, from what I remember. And they didn't talk about Epstein one time. What number is that?

[Adam Thorne]

How do I not know about this? Yes, Rogan hosted Adam Perry Lang, who worked as a chef for Jeffrey Epstein, episode 1469 of the Joe Rogan Experience in May of 2020. Well, was that after. When did Epstein kill himself? 1919.

[Pete]

Wink. Allegedly.

[Adam Thorne]

Allegedly.

[Pete]

There's a. I mean, the chefs are the first to die. Like the Clinton chef often. Obama chef.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. They're bad swimmers.

[Pete]

They're bad swimmers.

[Adam Thorne]

Terrible swimmers.

[Pete]

That's not a race joke.

[Adam Thorne]

It's because of their hats. Waterlogged.

[Pete]

They're generally chunky big hats.

[Adam Thorne]

You can't swim with a spatula, folks.

[Pete]

Well, so this guy got off lucky for being alive. I wonder how you cook. Baby meat.

[Adam Thorne]

The appearance drew criticism because Rogan did not question Lang about this at the time. Well known. I do not remember this. I cannot believe it.

[Pete]

And Epstein was convicted in what, 2006. A registered sex offender. He pled guilty to like some really lessened charges, but there were some egregious charges.

[Adam Thorne]

Uh huh.

[Pete]

So a simple search would have revealed that.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, I do remember this guy. Yep. I remember him being on there. And I guess it just didn't stand out because they didn't talk about any Epstein stuff.

[Pete]

Did they talk about deglazing pans or something? Cooking a chicken fricassee or something?

[Adam Thorne]

Stromboli.

[Pete]

Yeah, the heck.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't know. I mean, I don't remember enough about it. I could probably go back and find myself reviewing it or maybe it was one of the episodes that I would have skipped. But. Huh, that's interesting.

[Pete]

There's an episode coming up with Jim Brewer that I'm. Maybe we'll do that one. I'm real interested in that one.

[Adam Thorne]

We should. Jim. Jim's the best and he loves to get into some conspiracy stuff. He also was not a big fan of the COVID stuff. I think he was quite defensive about it because. And he was definitely a very liberal guy before all of anything Covid happened. But I think he's been very good friends with Joe for a long time. Joe's looked up to him as a comedian forever since SNL and. Yeah. And they've just been tight. And I think that you know, Jim knows Joe well and I don't think Jim appreciated how Joe was treated during that time. And it. And I've got a sneaky feeling that's kind of what set Jim off on that. That really pissed him off. He just seems like a loyal guy. He's a good dude. That's all I've ever heard about him. Solid friend.

[Pete]

Goat boy in snl.

[Adam Thorne]

Brilliant. Legendary.

[Pete]

Keeps getting shocked.

[Adam Thorne]

So good. I still think his best role was half baked. Yeah, when he just goes on. They send him to go get. No, no, they didn't send him to get food. But he just had that massive order for Holland Williams to go get. He's like, blah, blah, blah, four big pizzas, everything on them and Funyuns. It's just amazing. It's one of the most legendary breakdowns. Man, I gotta watch that movie again. Classic.

[Pete]

Let's do it. Let's, let's. Let's break our sobriety, smoke some weed and watch that shit.

[Adam Thorne]

Let's put that on. We can watch that. Well, we're only not drinking. Weed's legal.

[Pete]

That's true.

[Adam Thorne]

It's fine.

[Pete]

Okay.

[Adam Thorne]

It's good. Good for your blood pressure.

[Pete]

Mine's pretty good right now, though, allegedly.

[Adam Thorne]

If you're old enough and it's appropriate

[Pete]

setting and if it's a legal state.

[Adam Thorne]

That's true. That's true. Not Texas.

[Pete]

Is that right? Oh, they have that fake weed, that CBD Delta or who knows?

[Adam Thorne]

Can't do the. They must have medical there, though, right?

[Pete]

I think so.

[Adam Thorne]

Do they have medical everywhere? I believe every state.

[Pete]

Yeah. I think it's also decriminalized in most states as well. So it's a ticket and a confiscation. You can't drive with it. Anyways.

[Adam Thorne]

Anyways, Pete knows we're just looking into it. Get into the weeds, getting into some weed. There we go. They talk a little bit about ideology as identity, and this was interesting. Malice argues that ideology becomes part of personal identity. He explains why people defend political positions even when evidence contradicts them. And that's interesting. You must have seen this. It's like a friend of yours is telling you a point, like, they did the research themselves, and you're just like, wait a second. I know you, and you know nothing about this subject. Now, I'm not saying I know anything about the subject, but you're talking to me like you discovered it yourself or you did research.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

When surely the only way you know this is you just watched a show or saw some Instagram clip that was telling you what to believe.

[Pete]

Yeah, you're.

[Adam Thorne]

And because it lines up with the party or some ideology that you're supposed to believe in, you're like, well, that's the facts. And now I've got to tell other people. Happens all the time.

[Pete]

Yeah, I've seen that. That's. You know, when facts are presented, opinions must change, otherwise you're no longer relevant.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, you'd hope so.

[Pete]

That's when you get old.

[Adam Thorne]

But I think we're all guilty of that to a point as well. We love to hear those sound bites and be like, oh, I'm gonna use that one. Yeah, that's my new facts for the day.

[Pete]

My new identity for a while.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I'm now that guy that knows this. And you're just like, do you really care that much? Like, some of the opinions that I even accidentally catch myself thinking I should have, I'm like, I don't care about this at all.

[Pete]

What? Do I care about that?

[National Debt Relief Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Because the news just told me to. Well, this really clever, you know, one Minute long Instagram reel just told me.

[Pete]

Some gal, while she's put on her makeup, talked about the Epstein files to me. I was mesmerized.

[Adam Thorne]

You're like, I believe it.

[Pete]

I believe anything she says.

[Adam Thorne]

I believe what she's saying.

[Pete]

Excellent. Cat's eyes, right?

[Adam Thorne]

It's very true. I mean, Rogan even discusses how disagreement is interpreted as moral threat rather than intellectual disagreement. And yeah, I mean, I agree with that.

[Pete]

Yeah. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I hate you or. Or hate what? You. Your whole ideology.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, it shouldn't. We should be at a disagree. I love having those friends that you can, like, have a real ideological disagreement with. And then at the end, you're just like, all right, well, what do we do next? Should we go for a beer? Like, do something real pizza? Yeah. What are we doing later? UFC's are on. Sweet. Let's go watch that. Instead of I need to go home. Like, what are you, 12? Did I upset you that much? Yeah, you got to go home and, you know, call your other friend and be like, can you believe you said that? That's my whole identity wrapped up in this idea that I didn't research myself and was told by the news to think they people do it.

[Pete]

I think we're at a point in our lives, as a part in our culture where we don't believe anything anymore. Nobody is. Nobody is.

[Adam Thorne]

I'm trying not to get tied to ideas too much because I just. One, I don't know if I believe it, and two, I don't know if it's all that important.

[Pete]

Being friends with people is more important than

[Adam Thorne]

arguing with them.

[Pete]

Tariff regulation.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure. It's like how you're treating each other. That's really what. I'm not falling out with people because of their ideologies ever. It doesn't happen.

[Pete]

There are.

[Adam Thorne]

People might do it with me. If I get too serious about something, fine. But how I fall out with people is, like, their behavior consistently, their ethics, or their treatment of others or their treatment of me. I'm just like, that's out of line. You either stop doing that, I'll throw that boundary out, or just. No, go hang out with someone else. This is not cool.

[Pete]

Belittle and berate someone else somewhere else. They got into assisted suicide.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah, Remember that part? That's right. Talking about Newsom again.

[Pete]

So what's Newsom's thing? He's trying to get it.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, he did it with his mother, who was very sick, and Michael was actually, I thought, a bit harsh. And you Know, I'm not here to stick up for Gavin, but, yeah, to be fair, every case, it doesn't mean just because Gavin's been a dick that everything he does is dickish. Right. That's not how anyone is.

[Pete]

He's a human, after all. Or a lizard person.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Check his mask. Pull it. Pull his skin. But, you know, his mother was very sick and he talks about the assisted suicide portion. I think it was, you know, quite painful. Cancer and all the rest of it. And he helped her along with that. And malice was just like, I can't believe he talked about that and promoted it and all these things. But Joe had a really good point. He was just like, well, hey, if it's a ton of pain, like, what, do you just want your family members to just suffer forever? It's like, for how long? I mean, if you can artificially keep someone alive in massive discomfort for years, what's the point of that? What's the quality of life there? So, yeah, it was way more. And look, Joe's not one for sticking up for Gavin either.

[Pete]

No.

[Adam Thorne]

But he's also a sensible person when he's kind of breaking an idea down. I just felt like malice lost that point. I don't know why he was it kind of taking that one. It's.

[Pete]

It like segued into elderly in general, being on being a drain on our system. And so they might be. They're often offered that as a solution in Canada at least.

[Adam Thorne]

There's definitely a slippery slope.

[Pete]

There is a slippery slope with the

[Adam Thorne]

potential of what that could be.

[Pete]

So homeless are on that list. Elderly.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, if it starts to come into mental illness, then, like, we've got to be real careful. So if somebody is just chronically depressed always, but they're functioning well and their bodies work and they're not in physical chronic pain. I mean, is their depressiveness a type of pain? They are in their own sort of torture. It's like, well, how can you be sure? And how can you really analyze.

[Pete]

Have we done everything for them?

[Adam Thorne]

Right. And how careful do we need to be about allowing those types of decisions to be made? And also, you know, that is a kind of gateway to a sort of eugenics road. If certain powers get into place and they start manipulating the masses to be like, oh, it's fine to do it. You should do it. If you have a bad day at work, you have a tough week, go

[Pete]

into the suicide booth.

[Adam Thorne]

Suicide booths it is. What was that? Futurama. And they go in and it's like, souls Everywhere. It's not even so.

[Pete]

Thank you. You are now dead.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

The knife at the end just twists, twists. Awful. Thank you.

[Adam Thorne]

That was quite the future.

[Pete]

So there's. People have been euthanized already that way in Canada. Just like 25 year old sad girl.

[Adam Thorne]

Unbelievable.

[Pete]

Homeless guys that are depressed veterans. So there's a pretty crazy. Once our government takes control of certain things, they don't give it back. And I don't think they should really have a say in who gets to. Who gets offered medical suicide. It's just I have some ethics regarding. My grandmother actually took her own life that way. Medical assistance and dying. Gam gam.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

79 or 89? 89.

[Adam Thorne]

89.

[Pete]

She was quite frail. She had really no health issues. You could just kind of stiffened up. If we don't use them use it, we lose it. So she stiffened up and couldn't make it to the bathroom. Was wetting herself. So she did do that. I still. I say it's a slippery slope still.

[Adam Thorne]

This was in New Mexico.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And they have that there.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay. What's the process? Do you know how it went down?

[Pete]

She was in hospice or she got in touch with hospice, had a doctor talk to her and a couple sessions. Took two sessions of visiting the doctor. And then they issued my mom the drugs and then they went back to her house and they did it there with her kids hanging around.

[Adam Thorne]

Really? Wow. I didn't know this.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

God bless Gam Gam.

[Pete]

Yeah. She's very brave. That's a very brave decision.

[Adam Thorne]

That's a very brave decision.

[Pete]

But still I'm conflicted about the morals. Morals of it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Well, because you can imagine if someone is very old and maybe they're not thinking all that well or their kids don't have the best interest in mind and there's a lot of inheritance. You know, there's ugly things that come into stuff and all of a sudden they're kind of being pressured into it. Like, you know, come on, Gam Gam. It's really the best thing. We're all very busy. We just don't have time to be coming over here every day.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And it's like you got all your

[Pete]

kids here, drove them out of town. We're here to take care of you.

[Adam Thorne]

I already took a day off work for this. We drove in from Texas.

[Pete]

It was. It had that feel.

[Adam Thorne]

And then we gotta leave early tomorrow to beat traffic.

[Pete]

Yeah. Tapping his watch.

[Adam Thorne]

Tapping his watch.

[Pete]

It's just at some point you. I did notice it seemed like she was maybe Getting a little pressure to do it from my parent, from my mother.

[Homeserve Advertiser]

Owning a home is full of surprises. Some wonderful, some not so much. And when something breaks, it can feel like the whole day unravels. That's why Homeserve exists for as little as $4.99 a month. You'll always have someone to call, a trusted professional ready to help. Bringing peace of mind to four and a half million homeowners nationwide. For plans starting at just $4.99 a month, go to homeserve.com that's homeserve.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply. Uncovered repairs.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like the. Remember on the Monty Python, the Holy Grail. They're like the sick people. They pull him away. He's all, I'm getting better.

[Pete]

And he just whacks.

[Adam Thorne]

They just whack them.

[Pete]

Could you. Come on. Here's a couple.

[Adam Thorne]

Come on, take them away.

[Pete]

Here's a couple of pence.

[Adam Thorne]

I'm all right. I'm getting better.

[Pete]

I feel like I can go for a walk.

[Adam Thorne]

We shouldn't laugh about it, but it's like there is an absurdity potential to it that highlights how the, you know, the darkness that could creep into those sorts of decisions and why it needs to be handled so carefully. Right. For sure. Yet also, I think there is potentially a place for it as well.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, I'm, you know, if I get it, if you're getting one of those diseases that just kind of eat you away, you know, Parkinson's or one of those ones that just very quickly, like, everything just goes als, Right. And you can't move and you can't do anything. And it's. And it's inevitable, like, there's no cure for it. Your mind's going to start going and it's like, hey, and I can. I can take some dignity. And, you know, you don't have dignity otherwise, but it's like you may not feel like you do. And, yeah, you go out kind of the way that you want to, but

[Pete]

the trick is you have to be cognizant and of sound mind to make the decision. So if you wait too long and you're of no longer of sound mind who's putting you down.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

Yeah. Then you're getting put down.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure.

[Pete]

And that's a little bit dark. It's a little bit dark, but you gotta. Gotta have your own wits about you.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Which do I ever. I don't know,

[Adam Thorne]

look, there's no easy way out, folks. That's all there is to it. There's no easy way.

[Pete]

You'll know it was, I did it if I did it with a hammer, to myself.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. He really wanted to go, remember that on Team America where they're like, if you get captured by the other side, instead of like giving him a suicide pill or whatever, they just slide the hammer across the desk. You'll need this. He's like, what, Bosworth, just bash yourself with a hammer. Oh, that movie was brilliant. So good. Talk a little bit about power incentives. Like malice was repeatedly emphasizing incentives over intentions. It was like discussions of bureaucracies expanding regardless of original mission. So, you know, I mean, I guess you could talk about a US aid that way. Like, it was set up for aid, I'm pretty sure.

[Pete]

Co opted by evil people.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, co opted by like an arm of the CIA so that their oversight commissions couldn't really see what they were up to. And they were like, running, you know, coups out of these different countries. And, you know, it's weird how you

[Pete]

can stick up for that on. On a side, for a side. Oh, USAID was a, you know, a boon. We were giving condoms to people in Africa and peel away the veil a little bit. Oh, they were overthrowing democratic elected countries.

[Adam Thorne]

But that was the immediate narrative as soon as Doge got in. Yeah, because they wanted to demonize Elon as soon as possible. And the amount of data that he was getting a hold of, like, oh, this is all an invasion of someone's privacy. Well, yeah, hopefully the people causing fraud. And let's get behind that curtain and see what the heck is going on over here. And then Bono comes on Rogan, which, you know, they even talk about on this one. He's like, there's like 30,000 people. Or. Well, he's not. Doesn't talk like that. He's Irish. But basically he's talks about 30,000 people already starved to death or what. It's like the quickest narrative to throw out.

[Pete]

And then Joe was like, who?

[Adam Thorne]

Without even who is when?

[Pete]

And they all fell like, well, what

[Adam Thorne]

about all the other fraud that's out? And it turns out Bono didn't really look into anything. He just like was told something by one guy once. He's like, that does that sounds bad?

[Pete]

Did he go to the island?

[Adam Thorne]

Probably went there.

[Pete]

Didn't he go?

[Adam Thorne]

Probably played.

[Pete]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the best one. Bloody Sunday.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, they had some bangers. They were better back in the day they got a bit. Yay. Yay for me.

[Pete]

Yeah. A little bit of clap. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

A bit like blowing in the wind and saying. Yeah, a lot. I like their political days a bit

[Pete]

more back in the 80s.

[Adam Thorne]

Sunday, bloody Sunday. Classic.

[Pete]

Talk about the troubles.

[Adam Thorne]

It was a tough time out there. Yeah, tough time. Well, look, let's wrap this one up because they were rambling on for a while. I was. I got to say, I was a little disappointed. It was more Epstein heavy. I'm not gonna lie.

[Pete]

I think we're gonna get our fill next with somebody else.

[Adam Thorne]

We're gonna get there. I mean, look, the episode leans heavily on Malice's strong lane. Right. It was like power psychology. Less news, kind of more framework. What stood out for me is, like, incentives was the central theme. Repeated examples of narrative formation. A lot of strong overlap with previous Malice appearances. I mean, it was very much him. I like him coming on. And Rogan consistently grounding theory with practicality. Right. It was a bunch of that online reaction. Some great quotes. He explains incentives better than anyone. True. Always makes me rethink authority. And that's something that Malice has done well for a long time. Best philosophical, Rogan guest.

[Pete]

Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

One of them. Critics. Critic say too abstract. Also, solutions feel vague and then lastly, feels pessimistic. I don't know.

[Pete]

I thought they were just shooting the crap and.

[Adam Thorne]

Shooting the crap, dude. Bit of crap.

[Pete]

Shooting crap shoots.

[Adam Thorne]

Crap shoots. Overall online rating for this one ran through the AI from Reddit and X and all the places that people leave comments. A solid 8 out of 10 for this one. Quite a strong score for Rogan. I think it's because it had, like, that Rogan strength. Conspiracy.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Kind of shit on the powers that be Energy.

[Pete]

Very loose, cool conversation.

[Adam Thorne]

It was pretty solid. And I'd say Malice doesn't try to win the arguments here. He tries to change the lens. The conversation keeps returning to one uncomfortable idea. Systems behave predictably even when people don't. I liked it. It was a solid episode. Good Malice. Check it out. We're going to have more later in the week. We're probably going to do. Yeah, we're probably Brewer and RFK Jr. I'd imagine. We got to do RFK. What do you think?

[Pete]

I would. I'm into it. And Brewer.

[Adam Thorne]

Let's do both. All right. Thank you so much. We appreciate you, as always. Take it easy.

[National Debt Relief Advertiser]

Bye.

[Adam Thorne]

It.