512 JRE Review of Aaron Siri

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Host: Adam Thorne (with co-host Pete)
Episode: 512 – JRE Review of Aaron Siri (#2462)
Date: March 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into Joe Rogan's interview with Aaron Siri, a prominent attorney specializing in vaccine-related injury claims, constitutional law, and civil litigation. Adam and Pete explore Siri's insights, focusing on the complex legal landscape of vaccine liability, testing protocols, historical context, and the continuing debates surrounding vaccines and personal freedom, particularly in the wake of COVID-19. The conversation is intense, thought-provoking, and layered with both skepticism and reflection about the public health establishment, government, and mainstream narratives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aaron Siri's Approach & Episode Atmosphere

• Siri is portrayed more as a legal "receipt-bringer" than a science communicator.
• The episode is described as emotionally charged, likely to evoke strong reactions from listeners on all sides of the vaccine debate.
• Adam: "Just the fact that finally there's a voice saying, yeah, this is how it is… Sort of bringing receipts, isn't he?" (03:12)

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2. The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act & Liability Shield

• Legal Shield: The 1986 Act gives vaccine manufacturers broad immunity from design defect lawsuits. Only claims related to manufacturing errors (not the design of vaccines themselves) are permitted.
  • Adam: "Lawsuits for design defects were largely removed from normal civil courts, which is wild." (05:13)
• Pete: "Vaccines are the only thing that you can't come after legally. Every other industry has safety mechanisms…" (04:51)
• They compare this to the Ford Pinto scandal, suggesting liability is a key motivator for safety improvements in other industries.

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3. The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program ("Vaccine Court")

• The federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) operates outside the normal court system, with limited discovery, capped pain-and-suffering awards ($250,000), and no standard jury process.
• Adam: "Claimants do not go through normal jury trials or discovery process. The program has paid roughly billions in compensation… pain and suffering awards are capped a quarter of a million, including death compensation. Wow." (10:24)
• Pete: "…You don’t get to show any proof that anything was happening… If you don’t have discovery, nothing will come to light." (11:05)

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4. Vaccine Testing & Placebo Protocols

• Siri argues that most routine childhood vaccines weren’t tested against inert placebos, but against other vaccines or vaccine adjuvants.
• Adam: "He argued the most routine childhood vaccines were not tested against inert placebos… Instead, they are often tested against another vaccine or adjuvant…" (11:54)
• The co-hosts express surprise and concern at these practices.

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5. Historical Context: Lab Leak & Shifting Narratives

• The discussion turns to how COVID origins were portrayed, focusing on the lab-leak theory and the social penalties for questioning the official narrative during the pandemic’s early years.
• Adam: "…If you were the people that were solidly in the camp that it wasn’t… chances are you were wrong and it’s not your fault because you were tricked by a propaganda induced news cycle…" (13:50)
• Pete praises those who questioned the mainstream as courageous.

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6. Personal Stories of Institutional Pressure

• Adam shares a story about his chiropractor’s son losing a medical school scholarship for refusing the COVID vaccine, highlighting the ethical complexity and personal costs of dissent.
• Adam: "Holy shit, what a man, right? Like, wow, that takes—" (16:55)
• The student later refused reinstatement despite an apology, citing lost trust in the institution.

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7. Social and Governmental Compliance During COVID

• Reflections on how both government-imposed restrictions and social conformity led to widespread compliance, often driven by fear and public health messaging.
• Adam: "If there’s enough fear and enough of an idea of death… you’ll hurt your neighbor and you’re irresponsible… everyone fell in line." (18:46)
• Pete: "That pressure was so perfect. The argument of compassion was just… everybody wants to—" (19:08)

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8. Dramatic Expansion of Childhood Vaccine Schedules

• A sharp increase in the number of vaccines children receive now compared to decades past is discussed. Long-term safety studies on the full schedule are said to be lacking due to the limited discovery processes.
• Pete: "It went from three in 85… now they get 10 times the amount…" (22:20)
• Adam notes it's difficult or impossible to “generate that list” of resulting adverse outcomes because discovery is restricted.

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9. Measles Example: Contextualizing Risk

• Citing Siri, they detail that pre-vaccine, 3–4 million contracted measles annually in the US, with 400-500 deaths—a small proportion but still significant.
• Adam: "He uses that to argue that the disease was serious but not as catastrophic as modern fears suggest…" (23:16)
• Pete and Adam debate the balance between risk and necessity.

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10. Vaccine Injury Reality vs. Public Awareness

• The existence of vaccine injury compensation is seen as tacit admission that injuries occur, but Adam laments the lack of public awareness and press coverage.
• Adam: "If there’s like a spike in them, that would be something newsworthy… but it’s not talked about. Well, we never hear about it." (26:55)

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11. Skepticism Toward Medical Establishment & Mandatory Practices

• The hosts voice skepticism over the necessity and safety of some vaccines (e.g., Hepatitis B given at birth), mandatory vaccination for medical care, and how the medical industry is structured like a subscription business.
• Adam: "…She had to be up to date on her vaccines… otherwise, most doctors, even in Tennessee, wouldn’t see her… That was shocking." (28:22)

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12. Autism Debate and Calls for Better Evidence

• Though not extensively covered in the Siri episode, the autism-vaccine controversy is acknowledged. Siri reportedly discussed how agencies couldn't produce studies directly addressing early-life vaccination and autism risk.
• Adam: "…Can we admit that sometimes it does it. But it’s really, really rare just for their peace of mind… Or do we just dismiss them completely and say no?" (35:55)
• Pete and Adam agree the debate has become too politicized to seek dispassionate truth.

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13. Religious & Philosophical Exemptions

• Some religious communities (e.g., Amish, Mennonites, Christian Scientists, etc.) are more likely to refuse vaccines. The co-hosts discuss using these communities as possible case studies for vaccine injury and autism prevalence.
• Adam: "This small chiropractic based religious movement explicitly forbids vaccinations…" (39:38)

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14. Public Messaging & Political Dynamics

• They note that public health messaging often amplifies fear and may shift with politics. They speculate how COVID response might have differed under different political administrations.
• Adam: "Rogan argues that modern public health messaging often amplifies fear of the disease…" (41:11)
• Pete: "It’s the same government, just different flavors." (43:01)

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15. Personal Reflection: Vaccine Skepticism and Health Ownership

• Both hosts reflect on how their attitudes toward vaccines, mandates, and personal health have changed.
• Pete: "It definitely changed me from just kind of just following every recommendation… I definitely had a reaction to getting that vaccine. I was sick for, like two weeks." (44:45)
• Adam: "We gotta take our health into our own hands." (45:29)

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16. Data, Technology, and the Search for Truth

• Speculation that future medical technology and open data analysis (e.g., NHS databases, AI) will ultimately reveal true vaccine effects.
• Adam: "You can spin it as much as you want, but it’s really difficult to hide from good data…" (48:09)
• Hope that legal structures may eventually change if negative outcomes are widely acknowledged.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Sort of bringing receipts, isn’t he?" — Pete (03:12)
• "Lawsuits for design defects were largely removed from normal civil courts, which is wild." — Adam (05:13)
• "…you don’t get to show any proof that anything was happening… If you don’t have discovery, nothing will come to light." — Pete (11:05)
• "Holy shit, what a man, right? Like, wow, that takes—" — Adam, on the student who lost then rejected a med school place over vaccine refusal (16:55)
• "If there’s enough fear and enough of an idea of death… everyone fell in line." — Adam (18:46)
• "We gotta take our health into our own hands." — Adam (45:29)
• "You can spin it as much as you want, but it’s really difficult to hide from good data…" — Adam (48:09)
• "Bad news, folks. And then it goes back to what Fauci used to say, follow the science. Whoops." — Adam (48:36)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:12 — The unique legal protections for vaccines and their origins
• 10:24–11:36 — "Vaccine court," discovery limitations, and compensation cap
• 11:54–12:49 — Testing protocols and the lack of placebo controls in childhood vaccine trials
• 13:41–15:18 — Origins of COVID: lab leak theory, media, and public skepticism
• 16:55–17:59 — Personal anecdote: medical school student loses/declines place over vaccine mandate
• 18:46–19:39 — Societal compliance during COVID; public psychology and fear
• 22:20–23:01 — Dramatic increase in vaccine schedule since 1986
• 23:16–24:31 — Measles, historical death rates, and justification for vaccines
• 28:22–30:03 — Mandatory vaccination for children’s medical care
• 35:55–36:49 — Autism, vaccine injury, and the politicization of the debate
• 44:45–45:29 — Pete’s personal vaccine injury and shifting approach to health
• 48:09–48:36 — Data transparency, technology, and hope for future clarity

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Overall Tone & Recommendations

Adam and Pete approach Siri’s JRE appearance with healthy skepticism, irreverent humor, and deep concern for both scientific rigor and personal autonomy. They urge listeners to critically evaluate public health narratives, understand legal and medical frameworks, and take ownership of their own health decisions.

Adam’s review:
"I gave this one a solid 7.5 out of 10. I enjoyed it. I like that guy a lot. Siri was cool. He’s like, he’s a solid lawyer type guy." (49:09)

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Summary Table

| Segment | Timestamp | Main Point | |---------------------------|-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | Legal Shield for Vaccines | 03:12–06:41 | 1986 Act, legal immunity for vaccine makers | | Vaccine Court (VICP) | 10:24–11:36 | Federal compensation, limited discovery, capped payouts | | Testing Protocols | 11:54–12:49 | Lack of inert placebo trials for routine vaccines | | Lab Leak Origins | 13:41–15:18 | Media messaging, lab leak theory, societal narratives | | Institutional Pressure | 16:55–17:59 | Medical school story, personal costs of dissent | | Public Compliance | 18:46–19:39 | Fear-driven conformity during COVID | | Vaccine Schedule Growth | 22:20–23:01 | Increase in required vaccines for children since the 1980s | | Measles Risk | 23:16–24:31 | Mortality/illness: context for necessity/debate of vaccines | | Autism Debate | 35:55–36:49 | Politicization, difficulty in open study/discussion | | Vaccine Mandates & Care | 28:22–30:03 | Vaccination required for routine medical care of children | | Personal Health Reflections| 44:45–45:29 | Vaccine injury stories, importance of personal responsibility | | Future Data/Transparency | 48:09–48:36 | Data analysis, tech advancement, hope for truth |

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Final Takeaway

This episode offers a robust, sometimes skeptical, and often humorous breakdown of JRE’s Aaron Siri appearance. The review balances critique of public health institutions and vaccine policy with calls for better transparency, open debate, and individual responsibility. Perfect for listeners seeking deeper context, alternative perspectives, and critical questions around vaccine policy and COVID-era decision-making.

Transcript

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[Adam Thorne]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast or the best one. One Go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Today, Pete and I will be reviewing episode 2462, Aaron Seri. What a banger. Aaron is an attorney focused on vaccine related injury claims, constitutional law and civil litigation. Rogan frames him less as a scientist and more as a lawyer who has spent years forcing agencies and companies to show their paperwork studies and legal reasoning. This was a pretty intense episode, I would say. Especially. I mean, it's probably bringing up a lot of emotions for people that have, you know, strong feelings about what went on during the times of COVID regardless of what side they were on. I bet some people felt pretty defensive during this conversation. Maybe a little bit of denial was creeping in for them, or just some frustration or anger and vindication maybe. Yeah, and on the other side, vindication and. And maybe the same frustration and anger Pissed off, but relief maybe as well. Just the fact that finally there's a voice saying, yeah, this is how it is. This is sort of.

[Pete]

Sort of bringing receipts, isn't he?

[Adam Thorne]

I think so.

[Pete]

He's got all the data about if they actually do the. The blind placebo tests, and he has all the knowledge about the pathway that they were implemented.

[Adam Thorne]

Sure, yeah. I mean, look, he starts by talking about childhood vaccines and, like, the kind of unique legal category that they were in. So this started with the National Childhood Vaccine injury Act of 1986. Created a special liability shield for manufacturers. Well, already I don't like the sound of that. I love how they always name it the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. It makes it just seem like it's. It's for the children's injuries.

[Pete]

Exactly.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, to help them, when really it should be called the National Protect the Companies from when they Kill Children as they Give Them Vaccines Act. It's surprising how they never name it the thing that it's always the opposite of the thing that it is actually doing.

[Pete]

And then people just read that one little line, then they run with it. That's their identity in that regard.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. If only we could hear things in reverse. Like, no matter what they say the new act is, it should immediately the name should be flipped to mean the opposite, so everyone understands exactly what that act means.

[Pete]

That'd be moral.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, you're gonna injure children with this act. I see.

[Pete]

What was he saying about the. It's the only thing that's like that. Vaccines are the only thing that you can't come after legally.

[Adam Thorne]

Yes.

[Pete]

Every other industry has safety mechanisms, and also we can go at them civilly with lawsuits, but we cannot do that with vaccine manufacturers.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Lawsuits for design defects were largely removed from normal civil courts, which is wild. So manufacturers can still be sued for manufacturing errors, but not for the product design itself, which is a massive part of it.

[Pete]

So the outcome, they're not responsible for, but they are responsible for some part of it. I don't get that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it just. It just. It just removes, like, a huge amount of the liability that they have and really just takes it away from people being able to sue them. So, you know, the government can still hold them accountable. Other parts of the manufacturing error process can, you know, so there is some accountability for them. It's just us as individuals that are having to take the shots. Like, we don't have any say. We can't step in and get frustrated. Right. So it's like it removes the normal market Pressure that forces products to continually improve for safety. So that continued safety improvement just was weakened because there's no incentive in that direction.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, okay, so now we just have to stiffen up the potential manufacturing error process. But everything else we can just chill out on because they can't sue us for that.

[Pete]

And those are the kind of protections that drive companies to make things safer. He was talking about how car companies.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. They don't do it altruistically. No, they do it because they have to. The forced to.

[Pete]

They have to.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, they might occasionally add in a bit of something if it's very cheap, you know, or if it's convenient.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

To be like, oh, this is useful and safe.

[Pete]

Oh, now it works better or something.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, something is more efficient profitability, you know, or maybe they see they foreshadow that it's going to be expensive down the road or just look bad for image. But ultimately, no. If it came at a huge cost and they knew they could get away with it, they're like, well, we're gonna make billions of dollars. So, yeah, you break a few eggs.

[Pete]

He talked about the Ford Pinto in that regard, the Pinto that exploded when she rear ended it and how they knew this fault existed, but they weighed their options. Is it gonna be more expensive for us to recall these cars and fix this, or isn't it gonna. Or pay out people when they sue us because their family members have died?

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

They weighed it and they said, we'll just wait till the lawsuits happen. We can pay that, it's cheaper.

[Adam Thorne]

What's dark about that, and this part is never really talked about, is like, knowing they knew this but then finding out later that they, in that case stopped driving. Like, all the execs are like, we no longer drive that car as well. And in the same way with vaccines, they knew all this and they're like, well, we're not vaccinating our kids ourselves even. Or ourselves, though, we're going to force the regulations and get lobbyists to pay politicians or whatever and force it on everyone else, but still stand back and be like, yeah, but we know enough about it to be like, we probably shouldn't take it. The thing is, it's hard to get a hold of that information because they can all just say, yeah, we took

[Pete]

it, we believed in it, with medical privacy.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, we have this, like, little thing signed by a doctor that said, I got it. I bet if we tested a bunch of those guys, you know, if you could like, do a test to see if they actually got it, I bet a lot of them didn't. Yeah, probably people that really knew. I bet they didn't.

[Pete]

Did Bill Gates get it,

[Adam Thorne]

do you think? Billionaires. He seems like he would have, though.

[Pete]

Probably.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

But he.

[Adam Thorne]

He seems like enough of a dork to where he would have just done it.

[Pete]

We're trusting people with our medical health that believe that the earth is overpopulated. That's why I saw. I saw this thing about Bill Gates that said that.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah, he thinks it is.

[Pete]

It's overpopulated, but yet do this thing. And I eat my fake meat, which is hitting stores now.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete]

Without any labels.

[Adam Thorne]

Fake meats.

[Pete]

Eat some real meat.

[Adam Thorne]

That impossible meat stock crashed hard.

[Pete]

Those are terrible burgers.

[Adam Thorne]

He invested a lot of money in that. I've never tried them. It looks and sounds disgusting.

[Pete]

They probably had vaccines in them.

[Adam Thorne]

Who knows? Just like a needle sticking out the side. They're like. They're not even trying to hide this. They're not even trying. So, yeah, Vaccine Injury Compensation System. So that's called the vicp, and it was created alongside the liability protections, so it operates as a separate federal court system, often called vaccine court.

[Pete]

Sounds terrifying, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Claimants do not go through normal jury trials or discovery process. The program has paid roughly billions in compensation over time, and pain and suffering awards are capped a quarter of a million, including death compensation. Wow. So, yeah, there is a kind of way to get some compensation, but it seems pretty difficult, you know, again, you know, it's not normal jury trials. And what does that mean? There's no discovery process or not normal discovery.

[Pete]

That is the most important part.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

That would be why?

[Adam Thorne]

So you don't get to show any proof that anything was happening.

[Pete]

Discovery, when discovery happens. And in other cases, everything that they can find is disclosed. But why both sides? So if you don't have discovery, nothing will come to light.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. So you just basically go in the courtroom, you say, what happened? And someone goes, all right, I get it. You get 110 grand. Now get out of here.

[Pete]

And they don't show you the receipts.

[Adam Thorne]

Don't talk about it again. NDA, sign this form. Stop complaining. Here's your money.

[Pete]

That's why this guy's awesome. Siri. He has done the discovery on all these things, so he's a good resource for this. Knows his stuff.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, you know, he was talking about, like, the testing and the placebo trials, which was a little shocking. And he argued the most routine childhood vaccines were not tested against inner placebos the way many other Drugs are, which I didn't know. I knew that it was possibly different for them, but I didn't know how different. And he said instead, they are often tested against another vaccine or adjuvant containing comp. Pareto.

[Pete]

Yeah, that's a hard word.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Different.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

So it's like they're balancing it against something, but not a placebo. It's like something else.

[Pete]

Yeah. They probably test like the moderna versus

[Adam Thorne]

the two Johnson two against each other, see which one's the best.

[Pete]

Yeah. So anytime we argue about this with somebody, they would often say, well, they tested it. They just did it really quickly.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, they use real. The best scientists were on this. They just did it fast. We're saving lives here. We have to work together. Really. We're working together. I'm not a scientist, I didn't work on it.

[Pete]

They work together.

[Adam Thorne]

We're working together.

[Pete]

They work together to invent it. They work together to spread it. Allegedly.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't know, out of the lab.

[Pete]

We don't bel. Who can believe anything that these guys tell us now? Our government, they lost my trust is all. I'm jaded now.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, well, look, it's pretty well understood and accepted now even in D.C. that it was a lab leak and that couldn't be talked about for years. It was like four years in D.C. that was whispered about.

[Pete]

It was almost. Yeah, it was like a witch trial when you might. When you. They talked about you were a buffoon,

[Adam Thorne]

you were a conspiracy theorist.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And now I would like to just go back and be on the record and say if you were the people that were solidly in the camp, that it wasn't and that it came from the market and that you believed everything that you were told, which is reasonable because we were all taught just to believe what the news tells us. And everyone else, well, chances are you were wrong and it's not your fault because you were tricked by a propaganda induced news cycle and the government pushing a narrative, which, let's be fair, they probably knew that it came from a lab 2 or had suspicions of it and they were trying to hide it for some reason. And you know, I would say moving forward, probably be more suspicious in the future. I think that's something to consider. And for those of you out there that were suspicious the whole time, honestly, kudos to you. Well done, you know, well done for taking the heat that you took because it probably wasn't great. You're probably mocked and kind of shit on by many people that you knew, possibly even some of Your close friends and family. But if you stuck to your guns, you're part of the reason this narrative stayed alive long enough for this truth to get out. So well done.

[Pete]

Yeah, Take some balls. Good job. It was very, very pressure. Everyone was really, really pressured. Let's take it.

[Adam Thorne]

People were angry.

[Pete]

Oh, man. I would have lost my job if I didn't. Or had to wear a mask, which don't work.

[Adam Thorne]

I was at my chiropractor the other day. Shout out to Dr. Dan Legend. Sorted my shoulder right out. Feeling great.

[Pete]

That's good to hear.

[Adam Thorne]

And he said that his son was had scholarship to go to medical school and lost it during COVID because he refused to get the shot.

[Pete]

Incredible.

[Adam Thorne]

And he basically said to the dean when they were like, we're gonna have to kick you out of school and take your scholarship if you don't get the vaccine. And he said, are you telling me to forget everything that you've taught me? And I understand about medications and vaccines? And he took a real strong stance. And they did remove him from school now after the fact. And, you know, a couple of years later, when he went to reapply, they did give him an apology and offer to reinstate that, and he actually refused it. He said, I can no longer continue down a path in a type of institution that would have kind of fallen for that sort of pressure. Captured. I said to Dr. Dan, I'm like, I don't know your son. I know he's young, obviously, but holy shit, what a man, right? Like, wow, that takes.

[Pete]

That takes hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah. You know, he went and did roofing in the meantime. Talk about sticking to, like, an ethics and a value.

[Pete]

There's nothing wrong with roofers.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's very hard physically.

[Pete]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

A completely different shift. And you can't tell me there's not a day that he's up on the roof in the blazing sun, you know, sweating and working his ass off, wondering if he made the right decision. If you know that one of those points where you're like, was I being stubborn? Was this the right move? Should I just play by the rules? Should I have just bent over like everybody else, et cetera, et cetera.

[Pete]

You know, I hope he's finds his path and it's. What a sacrifice.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, he's doing great now. I think he's becoming a pilot.

[Pete]

Oh, excellent. So he's very happy either way. Moving on. I trust him as a doctor now. I trust him as a Pilot.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, fly me anywhere. But it was. It was a call to hear it. And you know, few people showed that level of integrity and, and kind of their own strength, I think. And it's really impressive to hear those sorts of stories because again, Siri talked about it, but. And it's something I think about all the time. I cannot believe. I mean, Siri mentioned when they did the lockdown at home. He said that's when I thought everybody would come out with a pitchforks. That was gonna be too much. And one thing after another, it just showed the government and everybody putting these rules on us that everyone everywhere just did it.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

With almost very little pushback. If there's enough fear and enough of an idea of death.

[Pete]

Right. That's what it was.

[Adam Thorne]

You'll hurt your neighbor and you're irresponsible. And how could you do this and keep turn neighbors against each other and family members. It's like everyone fell in line.

[Pete]

That pressure was so perfect. The argument of compassion was just. Everybody wants to.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, now they have the formula.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Anytime they want to manipulate us for anything. And you don't think that they would use that if ever they wanted to in the future, wherever they felt like they needed to?

[Pete]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, they will, but will we

[Pete]

fall for it in the same way? I hope that we won't.

[Adam Thorne]

All they have to do is skip a couple of generations and we'll forget

[Pete]

and we're turn it all to a digital currency. And if you don't fall online, they'll erase your bank account.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, my daughter is only two, so she didn't experience the COVID thing when she is, you know, 20 or 30, we're still be alive. So we know it. And we can pass that story down to her and say, you know, if. If this starts happening again, we can warn everybody. We can be like, we live through this. Listen to us. This is wrong. But can she say that to her kids? It'd just be a story then. Right? They won't be prepared for it and that's what happens. It'd just cycle back around potentially.

[Pete]

Well, hopefully it all will turn like it'll take a turn for the positive potentially. I have hopes sometimes. I have hope.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, they're not gonna try it for a while because that jaded some people. And I'm glad that these sorts of conversations are really happening now. I'm still waiting for the good documentaries though. Nobody's been brave enough to poke pop one of those out, you know, like a really good one where it's just like exposing it all. Just like this is what it is. You know, bring in some like old Pfizer execs that are really willing to speak.

[Pete]

Someone would have to come forward.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, a bunch of people I think are probably willing and they just need to start getting people together and, you know, bringing in people from hospitals and saying what potentially was actually happening with myocarditis and some vaccine injuries and some real things and collect some good numbers and start tallying it all up and you know, let's get some real conclusions

[Pete]

going, make it into a cohesive story so we can digest that. Some, somebody do that. Some smart YouTuber that's.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, that's kind of what we need. Let's talk a little bit about the vaccine schedule expansion. So, you know, over the decades, kids are getting so many more vaccines now. I mean, it's kind of crazy how many they get. He discussed how the childhood vaccine schedule has expanded dramatically over the last 20 years. Children today receive far more doses than previous generations. And you know, what is the long term safety studies that exist for the entire combined schedule with no discovery, there's

[Pete]

no ability to generate that list. These numbers just get suppressed. It went from three in 85. And that's when I think they did the act.

[Adam Thorne]

86.

[Pete]

86. Well before then, those three vaccines they were giving had repercussions. People died, kids died, had injuries, maybe not with just three. And then probably because of that, they made that law or the act, or was it a law?

[Adam Thorne]

An act.

[Pete]

An act. And now they get 10, I assume

[Adam Thorne]

an act is a law too.

[Pete]

They get 10 times the amount, so. And then the risk is exponentially greater. But we don't, we can't learn about it because there's no discovery process.

[Adam Thorne]

Right? Yeah. And then, you know, one of them is measles.

[Pete]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

And he talked about the death statistics. They even played that clip of a sitcom from back in the day. I don't know if it was Brady Bunchies or whatever.

[Pete]

It was the Brady Bunch.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And they're all joking about it. Oh, I gotta go to bed. I got a high temperature. So he was saying roughly 3 to 4 million Americans contracted measles annually before the vaccine. Right around 4 to 500 deaths per year cured in the US during the late pre vaccine era. 3 to 400 deaths per year out of 3 to 400 million. You know, and he uses that to argue that the disease was serious but not as catastrophic as modern fears suggest. Like it's not the kill everyone in the world type situation. I mean, so if 4 million people got it and 400 people died, then that's 1 in 10,000, I think, is the math on that.

[Pete]

That's a lot. I mean, I mean, excuse me, that's not very many. A big number for a low amount of deaths.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete]

And how many potentially are seriously injured or.

[Adam Thorne]

But then I guess you could say, you know, maybe the vaccine is not so important for like, obviously it stops those deaths. That's good. You don't want 400 people dying of anything. No, but also it stops 400 million people getting sick with measles. Maybe. That really sucks. I mean, how uncomfortable was the measles?

[Pete]

I think it was a thing everyone got.

[Adam Thorne]

Is it, Is it like flu, like symptoms?

[Pete]

I believe so. It's. It's one of those, like, people had measles parties. They would get together and give each other measles. Like kids would.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, they would.

[Pete]

Parents would do that to their children.

[Adam Thorne]

That's like chickenpox. Okay, but once you get the measles, then you don't get it again. Is that the idea?

[Pete]

I believe that's how it works.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Pete]

And you want to get it when you're a kid and not older. It hits your immune system differently.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, gotcha.

[Pete]

And you can become infertile. You can have some. You can go blind, I think as well.

[Adam Thorne]

I see.

[Pete]

So it is a. It could be dangerous. So maybe that's a one. That's good. Yeah, but these diseases that we have evolved with are not the ones that are going to be wiping out huge numbers. It's the ones that are made in labs for gain of functions, purposes and then released on accident. Those are the ones that we have to worry about as a species.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly. Well, the vaccine injury claims and like many of the real cases, so these include neurological injuries and severe adverse reactions. And Siri emphasizes that the existence of the compensation system itself acknowledges vaccine injuries do occur. So with these injuries, and that's one thing that really gets swept under the rug. Right. So it's legal cases involving injuries compensated through the vaccine injury courts, but they're not really talked about. They're definitely not kind of. They don't get in the press at all. Like, yeah, you know, this is. If there's like a spike in them, you would think that that would be something newsworthy. Right, right. But it's not talked about. Well, we never hear about it.

[Pete]

Nope, we don't yet.

[Adam Thorne]

It's public knowledge. I'm pretty sure, just like any court proceedings, we can look those up.

[Pete]

It's Word of mouth, basically, in this point.

[Adam Thorne]

So. So is it just one of those things that it's like, yeah, we don't want to talk about it. We want to forget. Amnesia is best.

[Pete]

All corporations are under umbrellas, and I think that, you know, NBC and all the letter channels are owned by umbrella corporations owned by drug companies, it seems. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

What's your thoughts on the Hep B vaccine for newborns? That one seems odd. So they test the mom always for Hep B, and, you know, you get your results back. If she doesn't have it, then they vaccinate the baby, basically, day one.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

What are they up to?

[Pete]

I'm not for that. I don't. I. That's a sexually transmitted disease and an intravenous drug user's disease that, fairly rare, affects the liver. So I think that. I think I get that, like. Excuse me. The kids get that, like, around 11 or 12 these days or in our day. Now they're getting that one. I just think that doesn't. It's not a good thing.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I was very suspicious of that. And in order for my daughter to get routine checkups from the doctor, she had to be up to date on her vaccines. Otherwise, most doctors, even in Tennessee, wouldn't see her, which I thought was shocking. So I felt like I even asked one doctor's office, I said, so you would turn my daughter away if she didn't have the right vaccines? And they repositioned their answer very politically. So they were just like, well, our policy is if they're not up to date on their vaccines, that we don't see those patients. So I was like. I tried to reposition it again and said, so you will turn away children from medical care if they don't have their vaccines? And then she just reiterated the same thing. So she had definitely practiced that. Yeah, they had that spiel down.

[Pete]

It's a whole classic.

[Adam Thorne]

And I didn't mean to put her kind of in that position, but I was just curious to see. I was like, this can't surely be possible. But it was. And so we didn't do the Hep B as soon as she was born. We waited 30 days, which is like, right at the time when she needed to start going, you know, they check her weight and they check some things at the doctors outside of the hospital, obviously. And that was when the kind of. That first round. But I was like, at least give her a month without pumping her full of some sort of compound that she probably doesn't need anyway.

[Pete]

Yeah. Do we even know what's in most of these vaccines?

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I don't, I didn't make them.

[Pete]

I mean, I know some.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, I'm believing like a little sheet of paper that they give me and assuming that the scientists, you know, did their job and wrote the right things on there and mixed the right compounds in for sure.

[Pete]

But we know they might not have at least made sure they're safe.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it is easy to get more and more suspicious of these things over time.

[Pete]

I do know families definitely do it. There are a lot of families out there that don't have vaccinated children.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. And they're certainly not all dying left and right.

[Pete]

I know a bunch of them coming from like, you know, the fundamentalist religious communities, how I grew up, that are all fine and high achieving individuals.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

And so they didn't need the doctor, I guess in the same way, I'm not sure if they had same sort of routine medical care, but do we even need that as far as Dover? So to me, I'm not a doctor. I don't think we need the doctor too much.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe not as much as they make us think, but again, it's like a business. Well, it is a business, right? It's not like a business. It is a business. So what better way to position your business than make yourself invaluable, like needed all the time, indispensable. Yeah. It's like the dentist. You gotta go every six months for your cleaning.

[Pete]

Now that's some real medical care if you ask me.

[Adam Thorne]

You have to go.

[Pete]

That's awesome.

[Adam Thorne]

How could you not go for your cleaning and your checkup?

[Pete]

My tooth polish.

[Adam Thorne]

What could be happening?

[Pete]

It's like every time you go, what do they say? Nothing, everything's good, fine.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete]

Okay. I guess we're not good examples, but people need the dentist. How else did you get these gold teeth?

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, look, I'm not saying don't take care of your teeth. Obviously you should take care of everything, but you know, maybe be suspicious when it's like, you know, it's like people are putting you on a subscription. Everything becomes a subscription. I hate that you've got to pay monthly.

[Pete]

You can't own it. Yeah. Own your health.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

As soon as they, I mean, a great example.

[Adam Thorne]

Don't work out at home with weights. Join this gym and pay every month.

[Pete]

Now that I will do. I'll subscribe to that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. They're like, they don't want you going on WebMD doing your own research.

[Pete]

Oh, heaven forbid.

[Adam Thorne]

Don't just eat healthy, eat terribly, and come to the doctor every six months and we'll give you some pills.

[Pete]

You need more bread. That's at the bottom of the pyramid. You gotta eat the bread. Mm.

[Adam Thorne]

That's where it needs to be.

[Pete]

Needs to be in the bottom of the trash can.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it. Yeah. Oh. What were they saying about the autism studies and discussion? That it's not just a question of better testing for autism now, there's probably

[Pete]

a lot of factors that go into the larger number of diagnosed cases of autism, but I think that. Did he mention that they even studied it in relation to vaccines?

[Adam Thorne]

I don't know. He discusses legal requests for studies examining vaccines given in the first six months of life and vaccines and claims agencies struggled to produce studies directly addressing that narrow question. So I don't know if that's suggesting that, like, maybe there's this link in there with the rise and, you know, I mean, RFK Jr. Has pushed for that.

[Pete]

He's said it a ton.

[Adam Thorne]

And, you know, there are plenty of people online that have sworn by it. Right. These parents that are in massive distress now because they talk about their child that was, you know, however old, hitting the markers, just completely normal, doing its thing, and then literally the day after getting a certain vaccine almost like, switched off. And look, here's the thing. It's easy to judge anything and to just dismiss that, but imagine how heartbreaking

[Pete]

that would be as a parent. You just watched your child get that needle and then the next day they're screaming all night, wake up, and they're shut off.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Pete]

And that's like, you know, that's on. On them. Hard to discount those stories. Like.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And now. And now you're being told by everyone that you're imagining this or it was for some other reason or this was going to happen.

[Pete]

That's how they're born.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it could. It could just happen at any time. And it's like, well, they say the. Are we sure?

[Pete]

They say the Amish have zero autism, but, you know, that's. Maybe that's because they don't go to the doctor and get checked out. Maybe you're just really good at milking.

[Adam Thorne]

Who's checking those Amish for autism, though? They're getting good autism tests over.

[Pete]

Check the underside of that Amish.

[Adam Thorne]

Look, all I'm saying is, like, I think because there is such pressure to not look at those things, like, people do not want to draw that conclusion.

[Pete]

It's a horrifying. They're like connection.

[Adam Thorne]

They're overjoyed to dismiss the idea that vaccines cause autism because it's got so political and it's got that whole anti vaxxer, vaxxer thing going on that, that people don't want anybody to look into it. Like, it's not about seeking the truth, it's about winning an argument at this point. And that muddies the water so bad that it makes it almost impossible to find the answer. Isn't it more important that we just find out for sure?

[Pete]

I think that's the.

[Adam Thorne]

And they talk about it like the argument is settled. Oh no, we've settled it. We've, we've looked at it enough and it's, and we're good. And I'm like, okay, what about these few families though? Like, what about them? Like, can we admit that sometimes it does it. But it's really, really rare just for their peace of mind, like just to give them some understanding of what happened. Or do we just dismiss them completely and say no? Because it's pretty unlikely and pretty rare that we say it never happens. And there's no link.

[Pete]

There can't be that number. Right. That has to have some effect on us.

[Adam Thorne]

They're basically saying no. They're saying that there is no link. I'm pretty sure that's like the standard release of where we are with it.

[Pete]

This is the one, this is the

[Adam Thorne]

well, because if they say there's any link, then they're opening the door to. There's a big link and it's, you know, they're opening themselves up for real trouble. So they don't want to at all. They're not looking to take any responsibility for this in any way.

[Pete]

It's that thing we talked about earlier, the cost versus correction.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, injuries are one thing, but if it gets linked to giving people autism, like straight up changing who they are, children, I mean, the population is not gonna stand for that for long. It doesn't matter how many acts are in place. Like, there would start to be so much public pressure that things would get changed.

[Pete]

I wonder if there's any religious communities that don't take the vaccine. Like as a whole community.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses do. Did Jehovah's Witnesses take vaccines? Let's find out.

[Pete]

I don't see if there's any, like, any, any kinds because I, I, that's how people I know have gotten around that religious exemption. This is the, this is the new thing that, like, we'll ostracize you in this. You know, we've. First it was Covid, and then it was. Does the back do vaccines in general? Cause this. It's the new art. Like, it's. What is it immediately discounted when you

[Adam Thorne]

bring this up by some people. Yeah, but, you know, more and more people are, like, open to those sorts of discussions because more people are suspicious now. And, you know, there still are some that are, like, completely sold on the old narrative and stick to their guns, but that's okay. While no major religion in the US Explicitly prohibit vaccines based on core doctrine, some smaller sex denominations and subgroups within broader traditions have historically opposed or shown hesitancy towards vaccines for reasons like reliance on faith healing. So Christian Scientists, Church of Christ, those snake dancers.

[Pete]

I like those guys.

[Adam Thorne]

The Amish and the Mennonite communities, certain evangelical Protestant and faith healing groups, ultra Orthodox Jewish communities, specific Muslim subgroups, and congregational Congregation of Universal Wisdom. What is that?

[Pete]

That one's interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

This small chiropractic based religious movement explicitly forbids vaccinations, viewing them as. What is this? Is it like a chiropractic religion?

[Pete]

Let's get into that.

[Adam Thorne]

Never heard of this other religion. Okay.

[Pete]

Sounds like it's from California.

[Adam Thorne]

All right. Universal intelligence and spinal adjustments as the path to health. Huh?

[Pete]

They're mixing. They're mixing. Mixing two things there, aren't they?

[Adam Thorne]

You just, like, show up somewhere and everyone's like, cracking each other's backs. It's my kind of place saying hallelujah. Okay, well, there you go.

[Pete]

So some. I guess the answer is yes, but not.

[Adam Thorne]

There's a few. There's not many.

[Pete]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, it's who we thought, the Amish, I guess Jehovah's Witnesses do okay. I was pretty sure they don't do blood transfusions, though.

[Pete]

There's weird stuff. They all do that.

[Adam Thorne]

They have their own things.

[Pete]

They got their stuff going on.

[Adam Thorne]

They got their stuff going on. They do it, but there you go. Okay.

[Pete]

So, yeah, we should study the Amish as a case study. We should get on that.

[Adam Thorne]

Me and you?

[Pete]

Why not?

[Adam Thorne]

Well, there's not too many in Montana, so it's gonna be a lot of

[Pete]

work for us Mennonites. We go Mennonites then.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, we go whoever's closest.

[Pete]

Yeah, they're like denim Amish.

[Adam Thorne]

Ye. Just some inbred folks in the hills.

[Pete]

I can't tell if it's autism or your parents are cousins.

[Adam Thorne]

It's both. Yeah. Well, so the risk and perception and public messaging, that was like A big thing. So, you know, Rogan argues that modern public health messaging often amplifies fear of the disease, which of course we saw a huge amount of during COVID and the public health messaging around that which was pushed by the government. And then immediately the news was massive. And I wonder how different it would be if there was a Republican government in at that time. Because most of the media is left leaning right. So do you think that they would have pushed against a right leaning government? Wasn't just to be critical.

[Pete]

Trump was president during COVID right.

[Adam Thorne]

When the vaccine was first being developed and the lockdown, the left was saying things like, we're not getting some rush through vaccine without it properly being tested. They were doing that whole political thing. But then the stars aligned once the left got in, because then it was liberal media with liberal

[Pete]

leadership.

[Adam Thorne]

Leadership. And then they spread the message on the same side with a big push of we're gonna save the world and you know, just push that right in our faces. It was like the perfect storm.

[Pete]

So I guess they were against it in the media at the onset.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, but they all.

[Pete]

It all. It's the same government, just different flavors.

[Adam Thorne]

I think the government, no matter which side was going to be in, was going to be pro make the vaccine because I think that there was pressure to do so and a lot of lobbying and a lot of pushing from like the scientific community. How it was perceived and reported on may have been different and that may have changed things. And how the lockdowns took place may have displayed themselves differently under different leadership. I don't think the right would have been quite as locked down.

[Pete]

It was different state to state as well anyway.

[Adam Thorne]

It was. Yeah. So maybe that would have stayed the same because it was mostly state run. I would imagine California and New York would have been pretty similar to how they were. It's. It's really hard to know. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, after hearing this, after hearing how they do the trials, how they don't really test these things in the same way, how they don't do the placebo stuff, how you can't sue them, how there's less safety precautions, I mean, what does this do overall for your feeling of vaccines moving forward? Does it give you any confidence in that direction? Does it change any way that you thought about the whole Covid thing? You know, what did you get out of this podcast?

[Pete]

Oh, me, the entire audience, Both.

[Adam Thorne]

But you're here so you could answer it.

[Pete]

I'm.

[Adam Thorne]

They have the Email in, Pete.

[Pete]

It changed me, man. It definitely changed me from just kind of just following every recommendation to wondering about what happens and taking. Taking my health into my own control. And I definitely had a reaction to getting that vaccine. I was sick for, like two weeks.

[Adam Thorne]

Really.

[Pete]

I couldn't move for. I couldn't move without weird pains for 24 hours. But I was ill. Whoa. So that wasn't everybody's experience, but it definitely was eye opening for how I've always been, which is listen to the doctor, listen to the people that I respect around me. We gotta take our health into our own hands.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I had the J and J and it's just one shot. And I had crazy fever for like eight hours. Was nuts. And then a massive headache.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then it was over. I wonder if that's supposedly. That one was not supposed to be all that bad for side effects, but for whatever reason, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Sucked.

[Pete]

There's often reactions with every vaccine, so. But the lingering effects are what we're trying to think of here.

[Adam Thorne]

Worst ones I'd ever had. But, yeah, I didn't notice anything afterwards. But again, the JJ wasn't our DNA ones or whatever. RNA ones.

[Pete]

It's an older style.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It was just the standard deal. So it didn't make those spike proteins and didn't do all that jogging.

[Pete]

Change your DNA in some way. I wonder if there's any recourse or detox that can go on. If you're afraid that there might be heavy metals in your system from those jabs.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't know.

[Pete]

I'll have to research that. I'm curious.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't think mercury poisoning was like, the concern. It was more the spike protein issue and potential damage to your heart. I think the myocarditis and the scarring and if that was to happen, it's happened. You'll find out later.

[Pete]

Let's have to move. Let's move forward from that one.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Depressing.

[Adam Thorne]

Sorry, I did. I didn't want to upset you there, but. Yeah, that's the scary thing about it. And I think that is also the thing that it's inevitable that if it has happened that way people will find out later. Scans will exist, these people will get older, and we're going to have better technology to look at the heart of people. And as these hearts start failing, they're going to start failing in ways that reflect previous damage and we're going to be able to trace it back to points in time. And it may be that point in time or somewhere around that time. So it's going to tell us something

[Pete]

if the discovery is allowed.

[Adam Thorne]

And, and a lot of strange, you know, there's been a lot of those, what they call turbo cancers and a lot of other illnesses and sicknesses that have been spiking since, you know, the time around the vaccine administration, you know, administering. So, you know, whether they can draw any strong correlation to that or not, who knows. But it's something that people need to look into for sure.

[Pete]

We got to get our hands on that UK's data.

[Adam Thorne]

That's it.

[Pete]

The UHS, what is it called?

[Adam Thorne]

NHS.

[Pete]

NHS.

[Adam Thorne]

NHS data. And that's going to be a good place to start. But it's just about getting data from everywhere and pumping it through a, you know, super robust AI system and, and checking it all out. At the end of the day, you can't hide from good data. No, that's the thing. You can spin it as much as you want, but it's really difficult to hide from good data. And you get a good analyst in there and it's like, there you go. These are the points. That's what it looks like.

[Pete]

Then the facts.

[Adam Thorne]

Bad news, bad news, folks. And then it goes back to what Fauci used to say, follow the science. Whoops.

[Pete]

And may hopefully some laws that change because if there is some notice repercussions, there are untouchable.

[Adam Thorne]

It's a good point. Yeah, it's a good point. Well, anyway, check out this episode. I gave this one a solid 7.5 out of 10. I enjoyed it. I like that guy a lot. Sir was cool. He's like, he's a solid lawyer type guy.

[Pete]

Excellent. He can weave a web. Yeah, he's, he's a good talker.

[Adam Thorne]

He spoke well, for sure. He had that like silver tongue.

[Pete]

Yeah. Good lawyer to have.

[Adam Thorne]

Good. Yeah, good lawyer talk and great for a podcast. So check it out. I liked it and we talk to you guys later.