522 JRE Review of The Psychedelic's Act

Summary

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Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast – Ep. 522 “JRE Review of The Psychedelic’s Act”

Host: Adam Thorne
Date: April 21, 2026
Episode Focus: Adam and his co-host dive into the unprecedented policy shift in the U.S. following Joe Rogan’s presence at the White House for the signing of the Psychedelics Act. They explore Rogan’s influence on mental health policy, the cultural and scientific context of psychedelics, and what this means for the future of therapy, addiction, and public perception.

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the cultural and legislative watershed moment when Joe Rogan, podcasting’s most influential voice, is present at the White House as President Trump signs the groundbreaking Psychedelics Act. Adam and his co-host dissect how Rogan’s advocacy catalyzed this political action, what the Act entails, and what it could mean for American mental health treatment—focusing on veterans, end-of-life care, addiction, and broad societal stigma.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joe Rogan's Influence Reaches the White House

• The Inciting Event: Rogan attends the White House as Trump, RFK Jr., Dr. Oz, and others preside over the signing of the Psychedelics Act ([01:00]-[04:12]).
  • "Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast in the world, standing in the Oval Office while the President signs an executive order that could fundamentally change mental health treatment in America. That's not normal ... That's influence." – Adam ([01:09])
• Backdrop: Rogan’s advocacy for psychedelics, especially mushrooms, and his influence on public perception and policy.

2. What the Psychedelics Act Does

• Fast-Tracking Research & Approval
  • Executive order will fast-track FDA approval for several psychedelics: psilocybin, MDMA, LSD, ketamine, and ibogaine ([15:01]-[15:38], [05:48]-[07:17]).
  • Structured rollout to target PTSD, treatment-resistant depression, and addiction, with special emphasis on veterans.
• Right to Try: Terminal and severe cases can access experimental psychedelic treatments without liability for providers—patients can "sign that paper" and try potentially life-changing substances ([26:52]-[27:37]).

3. Targeted Therapies and Their Promise

• Addiction, PTSD, and End-of-Life
  • Ibogaine, ketamine, mushrooms observed as effective in stopping relapses and treating severe PTSD, often after a single dose ([06:14]-[06:28]).
  • New protocol and professional guidelines, moving away from self-experimentation to supervised clinical settings ([06:53]-[10:20]).
  • Psychedelic therapy as an option for those at end-of-life, addressing existential fear and "coming to terms" with mortality ([10:20]-[10:38]).
• Destigmatization: Legalization and medicalization of psychedelics could transform public attitudes and treatment options ([07:17]-[08:09]).

4. Social, Economic, and Political Challenges

• Concerns About Big Pharma and Institutionalization
  • Fears about pharmaceutical companies "getting their beaks wet," possibly distorting access or intent ([08:10]-[09:04]).
  • Clinical access is seen as broadened and safer, offering alternatives to those daunted by underground or jungle-based therapy ([09:29]-[10:20]).
• Cost and Funding
  • Trump’s push to make medications cheaper; $50M in research funding considered laughably small by Rogan’s standards ([17:09]-[25:34]).
  • "Rogan could afford that. That's all you can get. 50 million? How much is one big bomb?" – Co-host ([25:34])

5. Psychedelics vs. Conventional Treatments

• SSRIs and Current Models Don’t Work for Most
  • Cited stat: SSRIs work for only 20% of people with serious mental illness, while psychedelics offer 80–90% efficacy (anecdotally) ([30:07]-[30:20]).
  • "It's like 80% of people not getting even. Trump on there was like, what? Really? So how good are the psychedelics?" – Co-host ([30:08])
• Alcohol vs. Mushrooms
  • No recorded deaths from psilocybin, contrasted with 174,000 U.S. deaths attributed to alcohol ([20:27]-[22:37]).
  • "This thing that doesn't kill you at all ... is like regrowing neuropathways, neural pathways, and making your brain function better. And it's like yeah, we've made that illegal." – Co-host ([21:12])

6. Cultural Ripple Effects & Global Implications

• America Leading the Way
  • U.S. as the likely global policy leader; Europe and others expected to follow after seeing results ([35:59]-[36:37]).
• Ketamine as the ‘Loophole’ Drug
  • More widely accepted due to medical uses in hospitals, helps pave the way for other psychedelics ([37:06]-[38:11]).

7. Notable Analogies and Humor

• Therapeutic “Fresh Snowfall”
  • Analogy: Psychedelics as a snowfall on a well-worn ski hill, allowing patients to “recarve” mental pathways ([33:44]-[34:35]).
  • "Over time, people are skiing down or sledding, and they're making these tracks ... stuck in these grooves of thinking and depression. But then you do these treatments ... it's like a fresh snowfall." – Co-host ([34:14])
• Imagining a Hippie Trump
  • Jokes about Trump “on 3 grams” with Joe Rogan, turning into a peace-and-love hippie president ([30:41]-[31:37]).
  • "A weird, like, post trip version of Trump ... I wanna see. Imagine ... he's like, 'no, everyone does this. It's mandatory. I'm signing it into law. Wars are over.'" – Co-host ([31:03])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Rogan’s Impact:

  • "I think Rogan's the most influential influencer of all time, right?" – Adam ([02:25])

• Reflection on Institutionalization:

  • "Not everyone wants to go to the jungle ... in a nice, calm, clinical setting is more inviting for me, I think for many people." – Adam ([09:50]-[10:14])

• Historical Callout:

  • "This was ... we are now where we could have been in the 70s. Oh, yeah. We've lost like 50 plus years. Richard Nixon." – Adam ([15:58]-[16:14])

• On Cost and Access:

  • "Bringing down those prices, I mean ... there are so many people out there ... who can't work a lot maybe, and therefore pay for these things." – Co-host ([17:48]-[18:32])

• On Therapy and Addiction:

  • "It's the definition of it. It's like you're stuck with it. It's hard to quit ... it destroys their lives. And what options do they have? They don't have a lot." – Co-host ([07:29])

• Analogy – Fresh Tracks:

  • "Imagine a big ski hill ... over time, it gets to a point where ... you can only go into these grooves ... Then you do these treatments ... it's like a fresh snowfall ... you can recarve like a new path." – Co-host ([33:52]-[34:35])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Rogan’s White House appearance and how it happened: [01:00]–[04:50]
• Key provisions of the Psychedelics Act: [05:48]–[07:17]; [15:01]–[15:38]
• Discussion of therapies & veteran focus: [09:29]–[10:38], [19:00]–[20:11], [29:00]–[30:07]
• Concerns over medicalization and Big Pharma: [08:10]–[09:04]
• Right to Try and end-of-life care: [26:52]–[27:56]; [10:20]–[10:38]
• Alcohol vs. mushroom statistics: [20:27]–[22:37]
• SSRIs vs. Psychedelics effectiveness: [30:07]–[30:20]
• America’s leadership and global context: [35:59]–[36:37]
• Ketamine medicalization pathway: [37:06]–[38:11]

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Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful but off-the-cuff, filled with dark humor, big questions, and cultural references. Adam and his co-host combine both personal reflections and broader social critique, maintaining the irreverent yet insightful style that Rogan fans expect.

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Takeaways

• Joe Rogan’s cultural power directly influenced federal mental health policy.
• The Psychedelics Act marks a possible paradigm shift in U.S. (and possibly global) care for PTSD, addiction, and depression—led by research and de-stigmatization.
• The debate between medicalization and Big Pharma’s involvement continues, but greater access and supervised treatment are viewed as positives.
• The sense of history and irony: this is a full-circle moment for substances banned for decades and now heralded as solutions to the nation’s biggest health crises.
• The tone is both celebratory and cautious: optimism about breakthroughs, but sarcasm about politics and profit motives.

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Final Thoughts:
Adam wraps by emphasizing the need for ongoing review of Joe Rogan’s lasting impact—“making an impact almost all the time”—and encourages listeners to stay informed as these treatments become accessible:
"What a weird time to exist. It's so strange. It's incredible and terrifying all at the same time every day." ([46:52])

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Transcript

[Adam Thorne]

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[Co-host]

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[Adam Thorne]

Dealer inventory may vary, so your participating

[Co-host]

Toyota dealer for details. Event hands to you first Toyota. Let's go places. You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your hosts, Adam Thorne. Might either be the worst podcast or the best one. One go. Enjoy the show. Hey guys. And welcome to a special episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. We thought this week, while there wasn't a huge selection to review from, so I thought what would be maybe a little more interesting is to talk about Rogan's recent appearance at the White House. So, you know, this is one of those moments where podcast culture actually bleeds into policy. Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast in the world, standing in the Oval Office while the President signs an executive order that could fundamentally change mental health treatment in America. That's not normal, I'll tell you that much. That's influence. And I guess it all started with a text message.

[Adam Thorne]

From who?

[Co-host]

Texting Donnie.

[Adam Thorne]

From old Donnie?

[Co-host]

Yeah. He's like, hey, Donnie, you should probably do this.

[Adam Thorne]

I think Rogan's the most influential influencer of all time, right?

[Co-host]

I mean, that's quite a lot of fucking influence, for sure.

[Adam Thorne]

That's, I mean, I, you know what's double edged sword? It's because it's such a good thing for mental health, potentially.

[Co-host]

It's huge.

[Adam Thorne]

But also you're like, he's Trump's office. You know, we have these like mixed feelings about this, right?

[Co-host]

But you know I don't care who signs this.

[Adam Thorne]

Wins a win.

[Co-host]

Indoor into law. You know, it's. It's fascinating. So there he was. And if you haven't seen this, I will put a link in the bio to the little press conference they did. It was like 30 minutes long. Rogan even speaks, chats about how it all came together and why it's important. And, you know, you've got Trump there. You got RFK. You've got Dr. Oz. Mehmet Oz, I guess that's his first name.

[Adam Thorne]

Turkish.

[Co-host]

And. Okay. And. Yeah, FDA leaders. And then there were veterans there. Marcus Luttrell and, you know, his brother, I guess, is a congressman now.

[Adam Thorne]

Whose brother?

[Co-host]

Marcus Luttrell.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Co-host]

Oh, okay. He's from that Lone Survivor movie. Well, he's not from the movie, but he's the real Navy seal. Oh, that they made. What was that Mark Wahlberg put in for? Yeah. Should have got a bigger guy.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, this guy, Hugh, the guy's huge. Yeah, he towered over.

[Co-host]

It's just, you know, it's like sticking Tom Cruise in for Reacher. He's just like, no, the TV Reacher guy is way better. And then he beats his neighbors up when they push him off a motorcycle. So he's cool.

[Adam Thorne]

He is cool as one of us. He's a peptide, bro.

[Co-host]

Definitely on the Pepsi. Guy's huge. He was big. Anyway. I don't know.

[Adam Thorne]

I like him, actually.

[Co-host]

But, yeah, Rogan stood behind Trump. He briefly spoke during the signing, and, you know, they talked about a bunch of different things that this is going to lead to. And, you know what's interesting about it? I mean, for anybody that's been following the, you know, Rogan space and. And what his podcast is about, I mean, he's always been an advocate for mushrooms, for one, and lent into the therapeutic end of it and the values

[Adam Thorne]

of that internal discovery.

[Co-host]

And I think that a lot of what made this discussion happen is not even so much the text message from him to Trump, which obviously was like, the catalyst of this, but it's the fact that when Trump turned to his team and was like, well, what do you guys think about this? Because he didn't. Didn't seem to really have much of an opinion on it or really know there's a lot of stigma around these sorts of things. But it got to rfk and it got to the rest of them. Obviously, Joe knows rfk, and boom, they were like, yeah, this is good. This works. And, you know, I don't. It's hard to equate, like, what is Rogan's impact overall through the POD and bringing this message to light. But I guarantee it's a big one in shifting just the general public's understanding and position on what psychedelics are about.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Which ones are you going to be focusing on? Or what is this? Is it for every one of them or.

[Co-host]

Well, I think the ones that have been seen to have therapeutic benefits. So ketamine is one that they do, and they do ketamine therapies now. I think mushrooms would be one. Ibogaine for sure. That's a big one.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, we've spoke about that.

[Co-host]

Because they are seeing that even after just one dose, it has a very high percentage of stopping people from relapsing or suffering from extreme suicidal ptsd.

[Adam Thorne]

I love this because as a person who's just jumping into it, you might maybe even pick the wrong one to get new because, you know, not. We're all experts in LSD and mushrooms and stuff. Maybe through these research trials, we could say, oh, this guy needs this one. He doesn't need to mess around with all the other ones who might. That might do some damage, like the mdma, for instance.

[Co-host]

Sure.

[Adam Thorne]

And maybe they need the ibogaine.

[Co-host]

Yeah. And it's going to create, like, proper dosing and a proper, you know, professional protocol for it and systems that, you know, and more importantly, it just destigmatizes it and gives the, you know, especially veterans that are suffering, it gives them like an option that's different than, here's some opioids. Numb yourself.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And try and get on with it. Oh, now you're addicted to opioids and that's killing you.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-host]

Oh, whoops.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, and sorry, the funding's run out for your VA bill, so you're going to have to buy it on the street.

[Co-host]

Sure. You know, and the big thing, too, it's like addictions for a lot of people. I mean, it's the definition of it. It's like you're stuck with it. It's hard to quit. And it's really difficult to move away from some of these heavier addictions for a lot of people. And it destroys their lives. And what options do they have? They don't have a lot. You know, you can do talk therapy, you can work hard to, you know, go to aa and you can work kind of get yourself on a better track, but it doesn't work for a lot of people.

[Adam Thorne]

Right? Yeah, it's obvious, obviously.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

But I wonder if this, you know, once. Once something gets institutionalized and medicalized and

[Co-host]

then well, they fuck it up a bit too.

[Adam Thorne]

Pharmaceutical. Pharmaceutical companies got to get their fingers, their beaks wet, you know.

[Co-host]

Of course.

[Adam Thorne]

So I wonder how that will affect it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I was actually, I interviewed a guy that does like a lot of guided mushroom experiences and he works with. He is an ex military guy. He went to. Was it like the Air Force Academy, I think. And he was an officer out of there and now he's retired and does like the mushroom therapy. And he had kind of mixed feelings about it because his idea is, you know, he's been doing it this more like traditional way. He's out of Portland or Washington or somewhere.

[Adam Thorne]

Gotcha.

[Co-host]

He's over there.

[Adam Thorne]

Gotcha. Where it's like basically legal anyway.

[Co-host]

Yeah. And his concern is once people do step in and get their kind of grubby pharmaceutical money hands in this, it's gonna cause its own types of issues. But what I said to him is, however, I think it will create greater access for people for sure. And that ultimately is the best risk route.

[Adam Thorne]

True. And, and, and for myself, if I've, I've had p. I've had PTSD moments where I thought that that was for sure what. I had a lot of anxiety. I don't want to necessarily just wing it, give it a shot. I would like someone who's like, like a friend, a guide. And maybe a clinical setting is better for me.

[Co-host]

Not everyone wants to go to the jungle.

[Adam Thorne]

I'm not trying to.

[Co-host]

To ayahuasca. Right. It's reasonable that somebody that's just struggling with their own addiction or problem or ptsd, you know, wants to go to like a clean, fresh looking clinic with western style professionals and, and do it that way. I mean, you know, in a nice,

[Adam Thorne]

calm, clinical setting is more inviting for me, I think for many people.

[Co-host]

Sure.

[Adam Thorne]

Like the, you know, the grandparents might be into it, but the age kind of prevents them from experimenting. This is gonna be great.

[Co-host]

I think that also this could open it up to experiences for people near end of life.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-host]

Like old people that are needing to process death and getting themselves to that point where they're like, you know, coming to terms with it and accepting it and to go through kind of a mushroom experience there and just kind of, you know, I've, I've heard anecdotally that they can be very helpful for people that are very fearful of their kind of end of life journey. This podcast is brought to you by Hims. At some point, you stop blaming stress, sleep, or just getting older. If bedroom performance is in question, it's probably Crossed your mind to do something about it. The good news? You don't have to jump through hoops to fix it. HIMS connects you with a licensed healthcare provider online, giving you simple access to legitimate ed treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines. To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit hims.comjrer that's hims.comjrer for your free online. Visit himss.comjrer Prescription required website for details and important safety information. Sidonafil is a generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Beatrice Specialty, llc. HIMS is not affiliated with or endorsed by Beatrice. I used to avoid looking at my finances. Not because things were terrible, just it felt messy. Subscriptions everywhere, random charges, stuff you forgot and even signed up for. And then you look at your account and think, where is it all going? That's where Rocket Money actually helped me clean things up. It pulls everything into one place. Your accounts, your spending, and shows you exactly what's going on. And the big one for me, Subscriptions. It finds all of them, even the ones you forgot about. And you can cancel what you don't need in just a few taps. It also categorizes your spending so you can start to see patterns like, all right, I'm spending way more here than I thought. And once you see it, you. You can actually do something about it. It's just one of those tools that gives you a bit more control without you having to think about it all the time. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Jrer that's RocketMoney.com Jrer RocketMoney./J I R. And it's like, you know, you've tried it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

You know what it does? So takes them on a bit of a journey. And it's like, it's gonna be okay, right? You know, Or.

[Adam Thorne]

Or there might be something after this. And where's the fear? What's the fear from.

[Co-host]

Right?

[Adam Thorne]

It's all simulation anyway, right?

[Co-host]

It's looking more that way. It's looking more that way. Actually, I saw something today. One of the top AI guys, and it always freaks me out when they come out with some of their own theories, even though they're just like, tech nerd. I don't know why we're listening to him, but One of them was like, yeah, it's. He's convinced it's a simulation. And the point of this simulation is for humans to develop a super intelligence. And then when that happens, it will switch off.

[Adam Thorne]

Huh.

[Co-host]

And I was like, how about you keep your negative theories to yourself, sir?

[Adam Thorne]

I think miserable Sam Altman just said, oh, yeah, we're trying to create Stargates. We're trying to directly communicate with otherworldly beings.

[Co-host]

Yeah, he said that. Why? What are you trying to do?

[Adam Thorne]

Leave them alone.

[Co-host]

Leave them alone. If they wanted to talk to us, they come find us.

[Adam Thorne]

They know where we are.

[Co-host]

It's just gonna be like knocking at the door and bugging the hell out of them.

[Adam Thorne]

Now we're here for all your water.

[Co-host]

Go away.

[Adam Thorne]

We're gonna take your water.

[Co-host]

Yeah, give us your gold. But yeah, I think there's gonna be some, you know, like amazing things that are going to come out of it. So it's. It's mainly focused on. So the. Let me read this executive order. It's called the Psychedelics Act. Great name. I'm surprised it's not called the Freedom Psychedelic.

[Adam Thorne]

Eagle talons.

[Co-host]

Yeah. But it's gonna be fast tracked through the FDA for approval, which is great because that shit can take forever. It's gonna focus on psilocybin mdma, which again is really good for people with ptsd.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Marital issues.

[Co-host]

That. Yep. They can reframe their like negative association with that memory and see it in a different light and add meaning to it and just kind of, you know, trip balls and then rave a little bit. I was gonna say some close things.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe a dark side of the moon. Listen, party.

[Co-host]

Yeah. A lot of touching, hugging, feeling around. LSD is on there, which is interesting. I don't know what the therapeutic benefits of that one will be. But here's the thing with the research, they can look into it and see if there are any.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's time for.

[Co-host]

That's the point. They could just give it a shot and just be like, how you feeling? Feeling any better?

[Adam Thorne]

This was. This was. We are now where we could have been in the 70s.

[Co-host]

Oh, yeah. We've lost like 50 plus years. They Richard Nixon.

[Adam Thorne]

Was it Nixon or Barbara Bush?

[Co-host]

No, it was Nixon. And Rogan even brings it up during the.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Co-host]

During the thing. A bit of a bash on Nixon. Easy one to bash on.

[Adam Thorne]

He's dead and you know, he's a punching bag. He's a big punching bag.

[Co-host]

Nobody.

[Adam Thorne]

Watergate. The mildest controversy of all.

[Co-host]

I know. Right. Hit a couple of files like, no, get him out. Conspiracies.

[Adam Thorne]

Not, not to mention, well, someone's making billions on this. That's just the way, only way it works. So there we go.

[Co-host]

There's gonna be some money behind it for sure. Another thing that Trump did talk about during this is the price of medications coming down dramatically. You know, in his first term. He said he was proud to even get him down like a few dollars or cents or percentages, like small amounts. And he said that was hard. There's a lot of pushback. Nobody wanted that to happen. You know, people making a lot of money. And now he's come in and he's like, no, we're making it the cheapest of any other country or we're at least matching it.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, I mean, Mexico's got some great prices.

[Co-host]

Yeah. But you know, he's bringing them down a lot.

[Adam Thorne]

When the odd thing is, yes, the prices change across the whole world, but they're all made in the same place and they're just bumped up to what they think they can make.

[Co-host]

Well, that's what Trump talks about that. He talks about his rich buddy who he actually calls fat. He calls him fat and says he's still fat. He goes, I won't say his name. Not like the whole world is gonna watch this and figure out who the hell you're talking about. But he said his rich body points at him. Well, he goes, he's on the fat drug is what he says. Look, think what you want about that guy is sometimes he is funny. Well, that is just the end of it.

[Adam Thorne]

Most dementia patients are.

[Co-host]

But he was, he, he just goes, yeah, he's on the fat drug. He goes, it wasn't working very well, but he gets to London and he calls me up and he's like, why is this pill $1300 in new York or this injection or whatever it is. And he goes, it's like 80 bucks in England. He goes, can you sort that out? And Trump was like, I don't think I can. Like, I don't think there's a way. And anyway, bringing down those prices, I mean, you know that. It's so great to hear that. Yeah. So many people out there that are not only sick and need this medication, whatever the medication is, but because of their illness, they can't like work a lot maybe, and therefore pay for these things.

[Adam Thorne]

Self advocating is so tough sometimes.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

When you're in a dump and you

[Co-host]

know, whatever the conspiracy is to why this is going through, even if there is like that dark money making side it's like whatever. Like nothing is perfect and all government politician stuff is gross half the time anyway. But yeah, actually do something for some people, lower the prices. And then the, the last big one, which we talked about already, that they're working on ibogaine, I began, which is just gonna be huge. Friend of mine, our mutual friend Aaron, he is with a bunch of ex special forces guys because he's ex Green Beret. They're going down to Mexico to do a ibogaine.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, wow.

[Co-host]

So I can't wait to talk to him when he gets back.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe you should have him on.

[Co-host]

Yeah, he's going to need some time to kind of integrate it all in process and. But I told him, take some notes while you're down there. Get a little journal.

[Adam Thorne]

He's going to have wristbands when he comes back with bracelets and nose.

[Co-host]

Nose ring, talking about his chakras.

[Adam Thorne]

I gotcha.

[Co-host]

But I'm really keen to hear like what the experience would be like firsthand and, and just kind of interview him through it. I mean, you know, it's stuff like that and, and podcast interviews that have really brought a lot of this to light and destigmatized a ton. It. There was also the Netflix documentary, I forget what it's called something the wind or it's about these military guys and doing ibogaine and all the benefits that they've got from it. So you know, people are hearing about it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And thank goodness.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Fantastic. I mean, just think of the potential benefits for these poor souls that are just stuck.

[Adam Thorne]

We all know anecdotally, but hopefully this will lead to some clear cut data that we can go to. Mm.

[Co-host]

Yeah. I mean there's gonna be some breakthrough treatments for sure. And you know, I saw a post earlier, was great. There's this guy jumps on, he goes, 174,000 people died last year because of psilocybin mushrooms. And then he's like shaking his head like, oh, that's not good. He goes, oh, wait, no, no, that was alcohol. That was alcohol. Zero people died from mushrooms. Just the way he put it together, it's like I'm sat there watching like that, Wait, that can't be true. Why? And oh, he got me.

[Adam Thorne]

He got me Donald thing.

[Co-host]

Yeah. And you know, we hear this and still that hasn't been enough for 50 years for anyone to be like, no, it's fine, it's safe, you can do it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, we've all do it. We've all done it for years.

[Co-host]

We're like, hold On a second. This thing that doesn't kill you at all. And now they're finding like can help you cure all types of depressions and anxieties potentially and also is like regrowing neuropathways, neural pathways and making your brain function better. And it's like yeah, we've made that illegal.

[Adam Thorne]

No, we want the alcohol that dulls your senses, creases your depression, melts. Jack, I could go for a pint.

[Co-host]

There you go. We have one now.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe we'll have one after.

[Co-host]

I mean it's hard to do a podcast on ibogaine but a couple of approves though. Though Rogan did a great podcast once with with Post Malone where they were both on mushrooms and did quite a lot I think. And yeah, it was three hours.

[Adam Thorne]

They get squiggly.

[Co-host]

Yeah, they did all right. They kept it together. You know they're pros.

[Adam Thorne]

They are probably.

[Co-host]

They're pros.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, Posty could be.

[Co-host]

I. I think I'd struggle.

[Adam Thorne]

You don't have face tats like that unless you can do a hero's dose. Anything.

[Co-host]

He knows what he's doing and yeah, but it is easier to stick to a couple of bruise. But again, you know they're killing people.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

It's really bad. And there's no. It's not like all the research in the world can go into alcohol. They're not finding any fucking therapeutic benefits for it. Yes, it sterilizes your skin.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And surfaces.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe your liver too and.

[Co-host]

Yeah. But once it's inside your body it's generally not a benefit at all. Makes you tired.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I think psilocybin has like physiological benefits like blood flow, like incredible blood flow potential.

[Co-host]

Who is that guy? The weirdo billionaire that's always trying.

[Adam Thorne]

Ryan Johnson.

[Co-host]

Yes. He recently has been delving into it because he's always doing his own research to see like what can make you younger and live longer. And he said there's almost nothing that in his protocol that resets his like I think it was like insulin resistance and a few other biomarkers in the way that.

[Adam Thorne]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But they. That's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Co-host]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] when you're about to spring clean your entire home, you want results you can trust and a product you can feel good about. Simple Green All Purpose Cleaner delivers a powerful clean. And it's US EPA Safer choice certified for use around people, pets, and plants. You don't need harsh chemicals to get the job done. With Simple Green, you get safer and stronger a clean home with peace of mind. Visit simplegreen.com to learn more. That's simple green.com mushrooms do. And they. They aren't quite sure how it does like, basically does like a mind and body reset. We've known for a while. It does like a bit of a mind reset. You know, it just kind of cleans out things. But the fact that it's doing it also for the body, it's like, wait a second. This is like a super nutrient too. Almost like a requirement for people to do it if you want to stay healthy.

[Adam Thorne]

A requirement. I like that. Like, it's a human requirement for higher functioning.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Like every six months you should delve into it and there should be programs available. You just go to a place, you're like, oh, honey, I've got my biannual mushroom experience. I got to go over to the. Go over to the center. And then where's my shirt? Where's my tie dye shirt, Bunch of beanbags and. And black lights.

[Adam Thorne]

Have you seen my sandals?

[Co-host]

You just get into it. I. It sounds great to me.

[Adam Thorne]

Mean, maybe you have to bring your own crystals in this scenario.

[Co-host]

So there's a $50 million funding push. Doesn't sound like a lot.

[Adam Thorne]

Not a lot.

[Co-host]

No. It's like, Rogan could afford that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. He's like, oh, his left pocket.

[Co-host]

That's all you can get. 50 million. How much is one big bomb?

[Adam Thorne]

Like 3 million, maybe. Okay, so yeah, yeah, let's make a few S bombs.

[Co-host]

Maybe that's enough. Maybe that's the budget they need for right now.

[Adam Thorne]

And so you're saying they're cheap? These drugs are cheap, buddy.

[Co-host]

Yeah. You just need some like, cow shit and a dark room and you can grow a bunch of mushrooms.

[Adam Thorne]

Pale hippie.

[Co-host]

I don't think it's much to. It's not very expensive to synthesize.

[Adam Thorne]

Most of this they try to grow by themselves. You know, LSD is a little tougher because you have the ergot. Precursors are hard to isolate, I believe.

[Co-host]

Is that right?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's from. It's derived from wheat or rye. A rye disease, A fungus that occurs on rye.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Adam Thorne]

Ergot poison. You probably heard of that.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah. Like made Salem wage trials is a theory.

[Adam Thorne]

Probably a lot. Maybe all over the. The into the place where wheat grows. There's whole towns that may have been poisoned by ergot.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

They're finding witches, laughing sicknesses and all kinds of weird stuff. But anyways, turned out to be a hell of a drug.

[Co-host]

Yep.

[Adam Thorne]

Precursor.

[Co-host]

There we go. And then there's also the right to try access, which is something that Trump spoke about, which means that if there's like. So some patients, especially terminal or severe cases, can access experimental psychedelic treatment. So a big part of it was what. How Trump was able to kind of get this passed is it takes all the liability out so the patient can't sue anybody. But they get early access to medications that I guess aren't available or potentially have even passed, like the FDA stuff, because of the slow rate. But they don't have to wait. And if that's their last resort, you know, chance, then it's like, hey, sign that paper. And you know, we get you on some stuff.

[Adam Thorne]

Take accountability for your health. Thank you.

[Co-host]

I like that. Yeah, I think it's great. Because otherwise you're just waiting around. You know, imagine they're like, you got two months to live, but this doesn't pass until October. But you have it though. Yeah. We can't give it to you. We're just gonna hold on to it because it could be bad for you. But I'm gonna die anyway.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Well, it's not allowed.

[Adam Thorne]

Have you thought about assisted suicide?

[Co-host]

Yeah, Canada.

[Adam Thorne]

Canada stuff. Mmm.

[Co-host]

Dude, the fact that they talked about some kid up in Canada that was like depressed, younger kid that was depressed and then they allowed him to do assisted suicide. I mean, don't get me wrong, some depression is like brutal, terrible.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Massively debilitating.

[Adam Thorne]

A 24 year old, there's a lot of things you can do to intervene. Right. Make him happier. That's. That's not a singular occurrence. That's happening. And 90% of them are of one demographic. I wonder what that is. And it's just. It's credible with the slippery slope that's going on up there. We have to fast track some life saving medication. Yeah. Instead of fast track euthanasia.

[Co-host]

Yeah. That's not an answer. That should be. It shouldn't be on the top of the list.

[Adam Thorne]

I've got a bum knee. I'd like surgery. Well, we have this pamphlet that you

[Co-host]

can read or this hammer.

[Adam Thorne]

You could do it yourself with this hammer. I don't know.

[Co-host]

I don't know what's happening up there. And a big part of the bill, obviously is veteran focused initiatives, so a heavy emphasis on PTSD and suicide prevention. So over 14 million Americans have serious mental illness. And that was cited in the framing of this policy. And it's. That's a lot of fucking people. 14 million have serious mental illness. This isn't like feeling a bit sad.

[Adam Thorne]

And they're all systemic or holistic. It's not just from one thing, it's from your life.

[Co-host]

Sure.

[Adam Thorne]

And what better way to do that? But maybe a natural path that the earth has provided.

[Co-host]

Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, look, why is this such a big deal, right? And it simple. It's because the current system is not working. Right. And SSRIs, talk therapy, you know, long timelines for like the whole process. They even quoted that the SSRIs are working for like 20% of people.

[Adam Thorne]

That's not enough.

[Co-host]

It's like 80% of people not getting even. Trump. Trump on there was like, what? Really? So how good are the psychedelics? And they're like, we. We think it's like 80, 90% cure. It's like the inv.

[Adam Thorne]

Right?

[Co-host]

And he's like, oh, man, can you get me some of that? How do I get some of that? Like, making the joke that, like, he's depressed all the time.

[Adam Thorne]

We need to get him on some shit.

[Co-host]

I would love to believe that at the end of this, Rogan pulled him aside and went, just for me. Could you do 3 grams?

[Adam Thorne]

Couple of grams, buddy.

[Co-host]

Give it a shot.

[Adam Thorne]

Wash it down with Diet Coke.

[Co-host]

Diet Coke and a Big Mac. Come on, let's see what's going on and hang out. A weird, like, post trip version of Trump would be one I wanna see. Imagine if he's like. Cause he's so like, yeah, direct on, like the way he thinks it's like, this is correct. That's how we're doing it. This is how I believe for that to shift and him still have that kind of passion. Yeah, he's like immediately like, no, everyone does this. It's mandatory. I'm signing it into law. Wars are over. Like, he just like, every war's canceled with decommissioning the military. Just a bunch of insane and like, peaceful resolutions.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, he would look good with a few hippie bracelets on.

[Co-host]

It would be hilarious.

[Adam Thorne]

Ankles.

[Co-host]

Hippie Trump.

[Adam Thorne]

He's got a bongo and pipe or something.

[Co-host]

And. And then, you know, the Big thing also is the high rate of relaps with all of these types of medications and that type of thing. I mean, it's hard enough to get people sometimes on an SSRI or into therapy or into the work that it takes to kind of get them going in the right direction. Life's coming at them all the time already. They don't feel great about themselves, and it's hard to motivate. So the relapse rate is massive. And then that repeats, and it keeps going, and it's over and over. So bringing that down, like a huge number would be unbelievable, you know, and it's one.

[Adam Thorne]

It's one dose or of the ibogaine, for sure. One, like maybe mushroom treatment month, and then you're kind of cured for a while, from what I've heard. Anecdotally.

[Co-host]

Well, yeah, ibogaine, it specifically targets addictions. So that works really well for opioids and alcohol because some of the big ones that are killers, obviously PTSD reduction, you know, high rates of that, especially on your second dose. It's just hard to get people to do the second dose because I guess the first one's like. Takes you on a journey you don't want to go back to. But luckily, that puts you in the 80% range of kind of. I say cured. Yeah, just depression is a big one for ibogaine. I mean, and that's huge because there are like, as a therapist, I know this. You can work with people and help change their mindset and their attitude and the things in their lives improve so that depression symptoms reduce. But there's still a huge number of people out there that even with all of that type of work, it's just seems to be, like, really built into them. And, you know, it's just brutal for them to have to struggle through that

[Adam Thorne]

with no mindset goes a long way. Reframing our mind is the fastest way to make. Change your life.

[Co-host]

Yeah. You heard something the other day that I really liked, and it was like, imagine a big ski hill, right? This is, like your mind. And over time, people are skiing down or sledding, and they're making these tracks, these grooves. And over time, it gets to a point where when you go down that same hill, you can only go into these grooves because they've all been cut in this way. And now you're stuck. And that's the idea. It's, like, stuck in these grooves of thinking and depression. But then you do these treatments and these types of psychedelic treatments. It's like a fresh snowfall oh, so all the tracks are gone.

[Adam Thorne]

That's lovely.

[Co-host]

You can recarve like a new path. And I like that.

[Adam Thorne]

That is nice.

[Co-host]

It's a cool analogy for like what it could be doing a fresh snowfall and you're like, ah, I don't have to associate my life with all these past events that have been traumatizing me, making me feel like shit.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't have to go to the gas station right now and pick up a 12 pack or go behind the gas station and buy some fentanyl.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

This is my ski hill. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Choose a new direction.

[Adam Thorne]

Keep going up.

[Co-host]

I'm going hiking.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, take your skis off, just have a walk.

[Co-host]

Going hiking. So. Yeah. And why Rogan has pushed this and been a longtime advocate of many of these things. I mean, psilocybin, dmt really like consciousness exploration. I don't know how DMT could play in this, but again, if the research opens up and then they have, you know, full approval to kind of explore that angle, then they can find out what the. It's like they're actively. Instead of just actively trying to ban all of these and not put any research in and stigmatize everything, it's like, hey, the door's open, let's try some of this stuff. Let's see how it affects people and try it for different types of mental illness and addiction and the rest of it and see what happens on the other side.

[Adam Thorne]

And this is just the United States, right?

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Who is, is anybody else in the world doing this?

[Co-host]

Not really. The rest of the world, I think, is gonna start to follow quite quickly with this.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, the experts have gotta be in another country right now. You know, the experts in the. Those ayahuasca, that would be South America, Mexico.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

We need to start thinking about outside the box with these things.

[Co-host]

Right. But I mean, you know, America will lead the way and I'm sure Europe will follow quickly once they start seeing these results. And they can, you know, go off our research too. So it's not even like they need to reinvent the wheel with it. I'm sure waiting for us to do it.

[Adam Thorne]

They've, they've done some studies on these. I think we've, we studied all these drugs at one point.

[Co-host]

No doubt. Yeah. Some places have ideas for sure, and I'm sure they. Different countries are using it in a similar way. Like you can probably find places to do therapies and I'm sure you can do the ketamine therapies in different places in Europe too. But again, A lot of these drugs are just heavily banned.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And they have not opened it up.

[Adam Thorne]

I wonder what made ketamine so readily accepted by the medical community.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I'm not sure how that one got in. I mean, I think it's like quite available anyway because, you know, it's like a horse tranquilizer and it's used in medicine for a bunch of different things.

[Adam Thorne]

It's used every, in every, every day in every hospital.

[Co-host]

Right. So they already had a lot of access to it. And then, you know, I guess maybe because of legality stuff, it's like. Yeah, well, there's already a path, a legal path. So we just change some of the wording and move it over to therapy. Whereas something like psilocybin or mdma, it's like they're not using that for any medical stuff in hospitals. So it's not available. There's no process, there's been no research behind it. Like if they're giving ketamine to patients for surgeries or whatever they use it for, they've done a bunch of research to make sure it's safe.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-host]

They have good suppliers, they have purity, they know how to dose it. And now it's just like changing lanes a little bit over to therapy.

[Adam Thorne]

I wonder if there's a difference and I'm excited for these studies. From isolated psilocybin to eating the plant or eating the fungus. I wonder if there's other things in the mushroom that are part of that medicine.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, they're gonna find that out when they start just kind of extracting it in different ways to put it in whatever they do, pill form or intravenous or something. Yeah. Once they, they kind of mess with it and it's exciting. Yeah. There's a version of LSD that they have synthesized where they add like another molecule to it. So it's like a three molecule setup or something is like on one of the active ends and they found a way to add like another molecule on. I'm not doing this justice because I wasn'. Pain.

[Adam Thorne]

He's waving his hand around everybody.

[Co-host]

I'm doing sign language. But supposedly what it does is it takes away the hallucinogenic properties of it. But it still has profound effects on the system, the individual taking it. And it's. So that's another angle to take too, which is like slowly manipulating some of these compounds and seeing what else they can figure out from it.

[Adam Thorne]

This is such an exciting thing and such rare good news.

[Co-host]

Yeah, it's huge. And it was Joe Rogan messaging him. So much. So they were like, joe, stand behind me in this press conference. Which when I saw the picture and I sent it to a few people, they immediately wrote back to me, AI, bullshit. They just said that. And I was like, I know it doesn't make sense. It doesn't look real, but I'm watching the press conference right now.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, it's pretty. It's. I mean, Joe Rogan's a lethal weapon, really. He's right behind the president. Yeah, they made a mistake. He could have took him out.

[Co-host]

They checked it. They patted him down.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, his arms. He could just. That's it. Put him to sleep.

[Co-host]

Re.

[Adam Thorne]

Naked. I mean, if you lock in, there's nobody going to save him. Like, you can't pry someone's arms off like that.

[Co-host]

There's Secret Service in that room. They'd shoot him.

[Adam Thorne]

They'd shoot him dead, wouldn't they?

[Co-host]

He'd be dead. He wouldn't be able to do it. I wonder how quickly you could take him. Let's not go down that road.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay, fine.

[Co-host]

It's a fun one. But, yeah. Yeah. And it was cool to hear some of the.

[Adam Thorne]

Not that I want that for anybody.

[Co-host]

The military guys in there, like, giving their anecdotal stories just, like, how it's helped them, how it saved their relationship, how it saved their lives from suicide. And it was. It was a really, like, open little chat in that room. Everybody was just getting a chance to talk. In fact, one of the doctors on Rogan's right. That had something to say was, like, interrupted. And Rogan just stepped in and went, oh, no, no, she has something to say. Let her finish. Like, he just wanted to get every. Every bit out of everybody. I was like, oh, dear.

[Adam Thorne]

If there's one thing we can all agree on, Rogan does talk to everybody.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

He'll let you have some words. Yeah, in a good way.

[Co-host]

I mean, he knows how to have good conversations. Like, let's be honest, that's what he does. So he's in that. They brought him that. He wasn't shy. It wasn't like, yeah, I'm at the White House. But it's still Rogan. He's still just gonna chat away and just say what he says.

[Adam Thorne]

I wonder if he thought he'd be there when he was having people eat bull testicles back early 2000s.

[Co-host]

The fear factor guy brings psychedelics to. I mean, yeah, it is kind of. I think he's fully aware of how ridiculous his existence is.

[Adam Thorne]

He's probably on the. It's all a simulation. He's like, this is my life.

[Co-host]

No doubt.

[Adam Thorne]

This is weird.

[Co-host]

It's pro. Hard to persuade him that it's real life with his life.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, my God.

[Co-host]

He's just like, what? What am I doing? Selling out entire stadiums for my standup? And then hundreds of millions of people listen to me ramble on about Bigfoot and God knows what else he's talking about.

[Adam Thorne]

Get blown away by some mediocre fact because he's so high.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, my God.

[Co-host]

He's all. Let's go to our sponsor, Perplexity. Put that in.

[Adam Thorne]

Perplexity.

[Co-host]

Yeah. He loves it. I still want to know how much he gets paid.

[Adam Thorne]

Every time he says that, I'm gonna say eight grand.

[Co-host]

They should edit in a cha ching sound.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah. He said ching Perplexity.

[Co-host]

Thank you for putting that in. I mean. Yeah, this is. This is fascinating. And I just wanted to do this episode because it's just kind of groundbreaking, and it's like, why not talk about the impact? I feel like every now and again, we should do episodes where we just kind of circle back and discuss the, like, positive impacts that things around the podcast and Rogan have. You know, what's come of it.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Co-host]

You know, because it doesn't always happen. But he's making an impact almost all the time.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, hard to fault a guy for wanting to make the world better. And that's what I see out of him.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Quite a bit.

[Co-host]

And, you know, you can give him a hard time, be like, well, why'd you have Trump on? He won the election. I'm like, he was gonna have Kamala on. They even spoke about it at the beginning of the press conference.

[Adam Thorne]

He invited her.

[Co-host]

Trump brought it up, and he was like, yep. And he had me on the podcast, and that was great. And he goes, and Kamala didn't go on. I don't know why. Maybe you can ask Joe. He's just, like, rambling. Like, he does.

[Adam Thorne]

He needs to get on some. Some peptides, Trump. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

He needs some thinking ones.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Some empathy ones.

[Co-host]

The empathy drugs would be good. I don't know what that. Maybe some of this psychedelic research we get him on, him and all the generals. But, oh, I saw something recently where he, like, supposedly Trump was asking for the nuke codes, and one of the generals had to stand up and be like, no, like, actually tell him he can't have him or something. I don't know how legit all of that is, but WeatherTech is made right here in America. And it's perfect for an American made summer. Because we cannonball into summer, hike all over it, slide down it, camp in it. It's one ice cream covered, sandy, soaking wet mess of a season. Which is why WeatherTech floor liners and seat protectors are a must. We are road tripping, beach going, lake jumping Americans. And that's just how we summer WeatherTech made in America. For an American made summer, visit weathertech.com today. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you, it finds them for you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the Haystack.

[Adam Thorne]

See why 4 out of 5 employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

[Co-host]

The smartest way to hire. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip. That's ZipRecrucruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter.com Zip.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, that's nuts.

[Co-host]

I think sometimes some of these guys are like, all right, that's enough, just stop.

[Adam Thorne]

We gotta have that.

[Co-host]

Yeah, you're not allowed to. We need a second opinion on this one. Give him a Diet Coke. Calm that guy down.

[Adam Thorne]

Give my guy. Press the red button and get the Diet Coke in here.

[Co-host]

Yeah, that's anyway, very cool. Check out the press conference. And for those of you that are, you know, actually in a space to where this type of medication and treatments could be beneficial for you, then, you know, keep an eye out because they're going to be coming your way. And hold on, there's hope these things work and they're going to be available sooner than you think. And it's really very cool. I think RFK said they, they might be able to push all. The FDA guy was like, yeah, we might be able to get it through in like a couple of months or something. Like knocking off like six months to a year of, of the time by, by getting it through quickly.

[Adam Thorne]

Cutting the red tape.

[Co-host]

Yeah, and that is just. It's just phenomenal. It just is. What a weird time to exist. It's so strange.

[Adam Thorne]

It's incredible and terrifying all at the

[Co-host]

same time every day. And the AI will destroy us. But enjoy that I hope you guys did. And, yeah, thanks so much for listening. And all the best. Love you guys. Later.