524 JRE Review Rick Perry

Summary

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Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 524: JRE Review Rick Perry

Host: Adam Thorne
Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Adam Thorne and his co-hosts break down Joe Rogan’s conversation with former Texas governor Rick Perry and advocate Brian Hubbard. The group discusses ibogaine, a powerful psychedelic that’s making waves as a potential treatment for addiction and PTSD, particularly among military veterans. The hosts explore the surprising emergence of Rick Perry as a champion for psychedelic reform, the opioid crisis in America, and the monumental bureaucratic and cultural hurdles facing new treatments. Personal stories, passionate debate, and in-depth analysis set the stage for a discussion that merges politics, medicine, and raw human experience.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Rick Perry – An Unlikely Advocate for Psychedelic Reform

• The hosts express shock at seeing Perry, known as a conservative ex-governor, champion ibogaine reform.
  • “Never in a million years would I have thought the conservative ex governor of Texas would suddenly be the biggest advocate for ibogaine treatment. Kind of wild, right?” (Podcast Host 3, 01:59)
• Perry’s motivation is rooted in his personal relationships with veterans, particularly Marcus Luttrell, and a strong desire to help those suffering from PTSD and addiction.
• Perry and Hubbard form an unexpected but powerful team, leveraging credibility and passion to drive policy change.
  • “They’re not seen as a couple of hippies...These are serious people.” (Podcast Host 3, 02:52)

2. Brian Hubbard – From the Opioid Frontlines to Psychedelic Advocacy

• Hubbard’s backstory is deeply embedded in the opioid crisis, especially through his work in Kentucky.
  • “He just really brought a lot of emotions out for me, which I think is the way that you’re going to have to go about something like this initiative… tap into people’s emotions, not just their logic.” (Podcast Host 1, 05:14)
• Hubbard's approach and energy are both moving and inspiring, described as “almost like preaching energy."
  • “If he’s not a motivational speaker, he should be.” (Podcast Host 1, 04:45)
• His wife’s successful ibogaine treatment for opioid addiction adds a personal layer to his advocacy.

3. What is Ibogaine and How Does It Work? (07:13)

• The podcast features a clip and discussion explaining the ibogaine experience.
  • Noted for producing a “slideshow review” of life—replaying emotionally significant memories in vivid, patterned ways.
  • "Life review or slideshow...the context can be very different, and the mind seems to shape that, but the actual replay seems to be pretty stereotyped." (Podcast Host 2, 07:43)
• Ibogaine’s mechanism: Appears to reset maladaptive neural pathways, offering therapeutic potential for various conditions including addiction and PTSD.
• Historically used in indigenous and religious contexts, now encountering Western medical skepticism and legal restrictions.

4. The Opioid Crisis, Veterans, and Systemic Failures

• Veterans disproportionately impacted by addiction, with many living in rural or underserved areas and lacking access to effective mental healthcare.
  • “Veterans as a specific group of people have less resources and more problems accessing those resources than the average individual.” (Podcast Host 1, 14:23)
• The current system is widely seen by the hosts as broken or underfunded.
  • “It’s not just about funding, it’s about creating access and breaking down the stigmas… as people’s lives get destroyed.” (Podcast Host 3, 36:20)
• Perry and Hubbard are heralded as leaders who can bring much-needed change, provided they overcome entrenched skepticism and bureaucracy.

5. Bureaucratic and Cultural Hurdles

• FDA regulations and Schedule I status for ibogaine create steep obstacles—not just for legal use, but also for conducting scientific research.
  • "When something is labeled a Schedule 1, it basically shuts all doors to even do research on it." (Podcast Host 1, 32:32)
• Discussion on why the status quo is so persistent: pharmaceutical profits, institutional inertia, and the legacy of the War on Drugs.
• Hope that Perry’s political influence can sway opinion, particularly among conservatives and even potentially with figures like Donald Trump.

6. The Need for Research, Responsible Rollout, and Holistic Care

• The hosts support expanding research and clinical trials, not reckless use.
  • “They both believe in this… But also, they're not doctors… they're saying, hey, run your studies, do your tests and see the results, and then allow it to be administered if it works.” (Podcast Host 3, 31:44)
• Emphasis on integrating ibogaine treatment with proper therapy and support, especially for vulnerable populations like veterans.
  • “The post treatment support is very critical here as well.” (Podcast Host 1, 35:52)
• Candid admission of knowledge gaps, e.g., how ibogaine is administered (eventually clarified as oral).

7. Changing Minds, Public Perception, and the Role of Media

• The increasing frequency of these stories in mainstream venues like Rogan’s podcast is shifting public dialogue.
  • “Coming on Rogan is the way to do it. Now, millions of people have heard this message.” (Podcast Host 3, 38:08)
• Personal narratives—veteran struggles, Hubbard’s wife—are crucial for humanizing the movement and bypassing political or cultural resistance.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Ibogaine’s Medical Classification:
  • “Schedule one says that there is no medical purpose for this compound...And ibogaine is neither of those.” (Podcast Host 1, 01:35)
• On Advocacy:
  • “He [Rick Perry] was drawn into this with an incredible desire to want to help these veterans that are struggling so badly.” (Podcast Host 3, 02:52)
• On Systemic Failure:
  • “It almost feels like there's a kind of a systemic failure in the support of mental health needs for veterans.” (Podcast Host 3, 21:32)
• On Moving Forward:
  • “We have to continue to push. And I think these two are going to follow through with it and they're going to. They're going to take those hurdles in stride.” (Podcast Host 1, 38:01)
• On Stigma and New Ideas:
  • “You can't shut down ideas that could potentially help people in such life changing ways when they really need it.” (Podcast Host 1, 35:03)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:59] — Introduction to Rick Perry’s surprising role in ibogaine advocacy
• [03:43] — Perry and Hubbard's personal motivations
• [07:13] — What is ibogaine? Discussion and clip on the experience ("life review")
• [14:23] — Outline of veterans' specific needs and challenges
• [16:56] — Critique of the FDA and pharmaceutical industry
• [20:19] — Potential for partnership with Texas Medical Center
• [21:32] — Stats and discussion of veteran suicide
• [32:32] — Challenges of Schedule I classification and impact on research
• [35:03] — The imperative to keep innovative treatments open
• [38:08] — Impact of Rogan’s platform in spreading the message

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Tone and Style

The conversation is passionate, empathetic, sometimes irreverent but deeply informed. Personal stories—ranging from moving to righteously angry—add a sense of urgency and gravity, balanced by candid admissions of gaps in knowledge and a readiness to learn. The hosts’ style is conversational and accessible, appealing to listeners inside and outside the Rogan fandom.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a thoughtful, richly detailed analysis of Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard’s appearance on JRE, with special focus on ibogaine’s promise for treating addiction and PTSD among veterans. The hosts underscore the uniqueness of having a conservative former governor spearheading psychedelic reform, the massive regulatory and societal hurdles remaining, and the necessity of both personal narrative and clinical evidence to change minds. The episode closes with a call for continued advocacy and support for those struggling with addiction and mental health—especially in the veteran community.

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Recommended Next Steps:

• Listen to Joe Rogan’s full interview with Rick Perry & Brian Hubbard for the deep-dive.
• Follow ongoing developments in ibogaine research and policy.
• Advocate for greater mental health resources for veterans and those affected by the opioid crisis.

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Transcript

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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces

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of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way.

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to Joe's walking dead.

[Podcast Host 1]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

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What a bizarre thing we've created now

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with your hosts, Adam Thorne.

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Might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. One go. Enjoy the show.

[Podcast Host 1]

Now, schedule one says that there is no medical purpose for this compound, whatever it might be. Yeah. And that it's addictive.

[Podcast Host 2]

And ibogaine is neither of those.

[Podcast Host 3]

Right. Clearly evidence.

[Podcast Host 1]

If there's, as a matter of fact, if there was a definition of a compound that was not schedule one, ibogaine was.

[Podcast Host 3]

Would be

[Podcast Host 1]

the top of the list, most likely, yes.

[Podcast Host 3]

All right, so welcome to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. That was Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard talking with Joe Rogan about ibogaine. Now, I knew who Rick Perry was, but never in a million years would I have thought the conservative ex governor of Texas would suddenly be the biggest advocate for ibogaine. Ibogaine treatment. Kind of wild, right?

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, it is. I mean, sort of unexpected characters in this, in this initiative. But I think that these two, at least, you know, seeing them on, on Joe's podcast, I feel like they make a really great team and I feel like they're going to make something happen here, you know?

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. And they're not seen as a couple of hippies that are trying to promote a psychedelic drug. You know, these are serious people. Rick Perry especially, you know, and he's Drawn into this with an incredible desire to want to help these veterans that are struggling so badly. Yeah, it's powerful.

[Podcast Host 1]

I found it really powerful. I found the combination of these two, like I said, they are going to make an impact one way or another. They have sort of different motivations. Right. Different moving stories and people that have sort of driven them to get here.

[Podcast Host 3]

Right.

[Podcast Host 1]

Perry talks a lot about, you know, this one specific veteran that impacted his life personally.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, Marcus Luttrell.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes.

[Podcast Host 3]

Legend.

[Podcast Host 1]

And, you know, Brian talks more about these other moving stories about just people, children, you know, even his wife that, you know, were affected by the opioid crisis and, you know, pharmaceutical companies and their.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, that whole bullshit story of opioids and how awful they've been. I'll tell you what, Brian Hubbard, interesting guy. I mean, the passion on that guy, it was almost, almost like getting to like preaching energy.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes.

[Podcast Host 3]

I mean, this is someone that could not believe and have more passion in a subject than this. That's what I was getting from it.

[Podcast Host 1]

At some point I literally just stand up and say amen, like he was sold.

[Podcast Host 3]

Hallelujah.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. He's so moving. I said in his stories and in his previous roles, talking about the impact he had, you know, managing the opioid crisis in Kentucky and, you know, having, you know, if he's not a motivational speaker, he should be. He's got the voice, he's got the passion, he's got the hair to go with it.

[Podcast Host 3]

Right. He looks a bit like Zach Galifianakis.

[Podcast Host 1]

He. He kind of does, but, you know, it works. And yeah, I got teary eyed listening to him. I got angry listening to him. He just really brought a lot of emotions out for me, which I think is the way that you're going to have to go about something like this initiative. Right. You're going to have to tap into people's emotions, not just their logic.

[Podcast Host 3]

Well, it's appropriate when you think of what they're saying. And it's that lives are being destroyed. Okay. This isn't a slight inconvenience.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

So these people's lives are getting destroyed. They're getting directed towards taking opioids to fix how they're feeling. And it's not doing that. It's creating addiction and death and destroying families while these pharmaceutical companies make a hell of a lot of money. And on the other side where Rick Perry is, he's seeing these veterans, you know, destroying their marriages and often committing suicide because they just are not getting the support that they need. There's like the treatments that they're given, that they have access to, the VA is just not helping them. And we've heard this a lot, even from Special Forces people that we know personally, that it's. It's a real issue and. And it's heartbreaking. I wanted to play this clip from Tim Ferriss podcast about ibogaine. It's pretty short, but it gives an idea kind of what the experience is, what the trip is. So before we get into the rest of the review, I think it's kind of useful because when I was listening to Rick and Brian talking on this, the whole time, I'm thinking, I just. I don't know what it's doing. Like, what is that thing that ibogaine does? But anyway, let's play this.

[Podcast Host 2]

The thing that I found really interesting about this drug is that it produces what I think is probably the most stereotyped trip, if you want to call it, or the psychological phenomenon that happens alongside the drug effects. And so people will describe this earlier life. Autobiographical replaying of emotionally salient memories that are kind of epoched in time.

[Podcast Host 3]

Some people would get Life review, right?

[Podcast Host 2]

Life review or slideshow. Yeah, exactly. And so it's interesting. Everybody's kind of got a different version of what the slideshow ends up playing out to be like for them. And so some people would say, I found myself in this room and it was on my TV from childhood, and all of a sudden it was playing all these things. Or I found myself in a hall of mirrors and it was playing all these. Like, the context can be very different, and the mind seems to shape that, but the actual replay seems to be pretty stereotyped. Stereotyped meaning it's a pattern that repeats or it's just like a common characteristic. It's a common characteristic and it's.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. So I don't know if that helps. That kind of. That gives me an idea of what's going on. It's the slideshow review of your life, how you got to where you are and, you know, through that somehow that reflection. Maybe it's a process of, like, you just don't have the denial in there. You're faced with what you did to get to this, you know, and it's not to say that it's anybody's fault. I mean, when it comes to ptsd, that's not the person's fault or, you know, a pattern of behavior that led to it. But addiction is complicated, and it helps clean up people's addiction as well. Fascinating, really.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. I think it's Fascinating the way they describe it. Like it rewires your brain basically to fix these things that are ailing you that you're falling into. Maybe you have resentment over it. Are you, you know, you're fighting it, but you can't, you're losing this fight with something. And I also find it very interesting that there's multiple scenarios in which this potential drug and process going through a treatment plan with ibogaine is useful. It's not just for people with one specific ailment. There's a lot, there's addiction, there's ptsd, maybe potential other issues that we haven't even discovered yet.

[Podcast Host 3]

It seems quite broad. One thing I would add, you know, the further I get along in my new career as a therapist and a mental health therapist, you know, not to say that you see the holes in the system that you're working in, but you know, you start to see what other elements can be useful. And this drug seems very effective when administered to help people through these things, addiction, depression and you know, just these other kind of major concerns that they have in their life. But if you start training medical professionals, especially mental health professionals, psychologists, you know, that sort of thing, to be able to administer this medication and then, you know, have time to integrate what their experience was, follow up with appropriate therapy, things get more effective really quickly.

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So there's also the potential for this, you know, combination of therapeutic behaviors.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

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[Podcast Host 1]

and I, I think that veterans as a specific group of people have less resources and more problems accessing those resources than the average individual. Right, right. And this group tends, you know, there is a high number of veterans that live in rural areas. You know, that's a, that's a statistic that you can find that if, you know, living in a rural area, having ptsd, maybe being lower income before going into the service or whatever, you know, you don't have mental health access. They're on VA benefits. And so they have like sort of the cards stacked against them. And so the idea that someone like Brian Hubbard has $842 million in settlement funds. Is that right? Something like that. To manage in this sort of initiative to get ibogaine, like a ibogaine treatment plan going for individuals in these groups. You know, the. The struggle he's gonna have and the obstacle he's up against is ensuring that it reaches all the right programs in all the right areas in the right number. Right, right. So how do we know that it. You know, there's an. And on top of that, making sure that those funds don't get tied up through the red tape and the bureaucracy. Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

Like, well, you know, I would assume that there's going to be a lot of stops put in place. I mean, this is kind of what, like, the FDA is constantly doing is making it harder and harder for these types of treatments to be passed for whatever reason. I mean, it's probably because they're not going to be in bed with pharmaceutical companies, so there's not big profits there. And, I mean, this is why it comes back to how Brian was talking about the opioid epidemic and how that has really been the solution for veterans really suffering up until now. Well, still is. I mean, ibogaine is not available, but, I mean, that was their option, and it was quickly passed by the fda. And, you know, to say no oversight, it's a weird thing because, like, the FDA does a lot of things, and it does protect us. It does make sure that drugs that get to market aren't killing people on X, Y and Z yet. They still kind of do.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

And there's some ugly ones that get through, and then they're massively overprescribed, and it takes years to kind of curb that and fix it. And who's taking responsibility for that?

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

You know, for the FDA to put their hands up and be like, look, we really dropped the ball on this, and we took too long to fix it, and a lot of people suffered. And our job is to ensure safety. And, you know, we're really gonna put our best foot forward, find a better solution to help these people, because we've got ground to make up for what we've done. We've actually made the situation worse and destroyed families. So. Oh, now there's this new therapeutic potential solution. Obviously it's not legal. There's a lot of hurdles, but we're gonna work with the right people, do the research, find the efficacy, make sure it's safe, and push it through. It just doesn't seem like they work like that. It's almost like they just stand there going, no, you prove it to us and we're decide and no, actually you can't even study that. We're just gonna make it like that.

[Podcast Host 1]

It's sad. It's sad to think that people could have, you know, whether it's pride or you know, obligation to shareholders or whatever it is that may stop these individuals or these groups, you know, these pharmaceutical companies from admitting their faults and sort of like making amends and trying to come out and fix it like you said, and really try to turn it around. Like that's so unlikely. I think what's more likely is that individuals like, you know, Perry and Hubbard, they're going to make enough noise, they're going to build, they're going to build up all the right allies, they're going to get enough people behind them that there's going to be undeniable evidence and support that, that they have no choice but to say, okay, fine, yeah, I hope so.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, I really do. I mean, because it all comes down to access, right at the end of the day. So obviously a first certain people will get access to. Right. I'm hoping it's the veterans that are, you know, close to suicide or just really in a kind of their own self destructive kind of process because that's where it needs to go. But all the way down to addictions and addiction treatment. I mean in therapy I know that there is a massive problem with addictions and it's. There's so many things you can be addicted to.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

And not everyone has access to a therapist. How effective addiction therapy is probably better than not going to any therapy. But addictions are tough to beat and there's a massive range of how affected you can be by this. So to create an environment where people have access to a treatment like this and we're talking a one time go through, you know, from what I've heard about it, it's not that you need to do ibogaine time after time after time to figure out where your issue is or I mean people are doing it and then they're like quitting drinking, quitting whatever drugs, quitting gambling. I mean it's, it's kind of remarkable.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, I mean I'm really anxious and excited to see what, what Perry does, you know, trying, I think sounds like he's trying to work with the Texas Medical center down in Houston, like partnering with them on the research behind this, the potential for this treatment and.

[Podcast Host 3]

Oh that's right. That's that huge hospital he was talking about.

[Podcast Host 1]

Huge hospital down in Houston. And you know what, what the Potential is when you work with the biggest medical center in the country, essentially, and you work with motivated people that do have put a lot of support behind their veterans, like the people of Texas and a motivated leader, leaders like these two, like they're, they're going to get somewhere.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. And you know what? He's the right type of person to be talking to Trump about this too.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

I don't think that Trump, even as a Republican leader, has really much prejudice or biases against treatments for addiction and suffering veterans. I mean, Trump's brother died of alcoholism.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

He knows it's real.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

You know, just the stats on suicide alone that Perry and Hubbard mentioned. Unbelievable. It's so shocking. Almost feels like there's a kind of a systemic failure in the support of mental health needs for veterans.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. I mean, that's the only explanation. Right. Like, it's well known that people that, you know, serve in the armed forces and all the different branches, they, they come back to real life and they struggle and they have these post traumatic stress disorders and these symptoms and these, these barriers to re acclimating into real life. Why is the system that's set up to help them medically basically creating more problems for them by getting them addicted to opioids? Like, why is that the solution? Why was it ever the solution?

[Podcast Host 3]

It was probably all the options they were given. It's not like doctors just get to sit there and go, oh, we can give you anything.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

It's like as treatment plans go, this is the first thing that we can do.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

Because you're in a state, you're really struggling. That's kind of numb you. And I'm sorry. These things are so addictive.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

And I'm sure it's tough for the doctors too. And the VA is just, you know, under resourced.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. Of course.

[Podcast Host 3]

Underfunded.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

And it puts them in a really tight spot. I'm sure there's a lot of really passionate people that work there that you

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Yeah, and to be fair, I mean, I think everyone probably could benefit from some of those things as well. Right? Like the, the sort of alternative ways of dealing with mental health and physical health that, you know, may not be so mainstream or that might have some, you know, connotations that go along with it or some, you know, like some things that people may not feel like it's for them for certain reasons that you can't, they don't really, can't really explain. But I think, but when you hear the stories that these guys talk about, especially Perry when he's telling this like, very personal story about the veteran that really impacted him and how he came around to this and why he's dedicated the rest of his career to making this happen. You know, you, you realize that these are real people, they served our country. They've been left behind by the system and it doesn't matter what has happened in the past. We have to move forward. Right. Everyone needs to have a more of an open mind about this because these are people that really need some help and that, you know, at all costs.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. And like you said, they've been left behind. And that's the heartbreaking thing here is in a sense, all of the people that could be helped by ibogaine are being left behind. I mean, there are other treatments for things like addiction, depression, the rest of it. I mean, therapy is a big part of it. But Perry points out, combining therapy, like I was saying earlier, with some sort of innovative treatment like ibogaine, it's, you know, it's a combination of a holistic solution that we really need to start looking at because there just has been no fix to the veteran suicide issue and that has to stop.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. And on top of all, like, of everything, like the bureaucratic hurdles created, you know, for veterans through, you know, going through the VA system, it sounds like a nightmare for them. They, you know, they've already been through so much. Now they have to fight through this red tape. While they have ptsd, they potentially have brain injuries, they've got physical ailments, they're hurting. They, you know, life looks so different for them. And we're not only making it hard for them to, you know, get treatments that can really help them, but you know, maybe even making it feel like we're just saying this, like woo woo medicine. It's like, why are we not just saying if these things really help people, let's get it going. Like.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, but again, it's so much red tape.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

I mean, and I understand why it's there when a medicine could be potentially toxic or poisonous and have long term really negative effects. But things like this, and as far as I know, it's non toxic. I mean, maybe there's like a point of how much ibogaine you could take to where it would be dangerous for you, but you know, yeah, I don't get the red tape with this. This is coming from some old ideologies, you know, in the system that it just not good. And look, I get it, ibogaine, its potential is really exciting, but it also sounds risky, right. Without proper supervision, potentially. I Mean, they describe it as like, a hard reboot.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

You know, it's. It's resetting neural pathways in the brain.

[Podcast Host 1]

Do you know, I sound ignorant saying this just because I just listened to this whole podcast, but how is the treatment administered? Is it a oral medication? Is this an intravenous medication? How do they actually.

[Podcast Host 3]

I don't know. Do you smoke ibogaine?

[Podcast Host 1]

I don't know.

[Podcast Host 3]

I really don't know. I didn't even think to look that up.

[Podcast Host 1]

Gosh, we're gonna have to Google it.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, we'll have to. Have to figure out something there.

[Podcast Host 1]

How is ibogaine used.

[Jan (Toyota/Azure Standard Advertiser)]

To.

[Podcast Host 3]

What'd be interesting to see is Perry's push for legislation and action around ibogaine. Like, you know, it's something we should watch out for. And it's going to be really interesting to see how he maneuvers around the stigma and kind of these outdated drug laws that have, like, held back this type of treatment. Again, I think that he's really the messenger for this. You know, if you take somebody that traditionally has been very conservative, but also an effective governor, so, you know, he's not just some quack wacko out there, it's gonna build confidence. And I really think that that is the way to get these things passed. Advocates like that, it's just kind of hard to argue with because he gets so much respect from many conservative people. And again, you're dealing with veterans. It's like, who doesn't want to help veterans at the end of the day? Especially ones really struggling.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, veterans and just people. Hubbard talks about this really moving towards the end of the podcast, this really moving story about his wife and her story with ibogaine, you know, and how it started with. It transformed her life, really, because she was addicted to opioids. And obviously, he's not saying it's all perfect and everything. Just go with it. Like, even though, like, I saw, you know, it work. We need more research. We need more. But that's. That's sort of what they're advocating for, right? Is like, how to find the best, most effective, you know, plan of treatment, how do we get it managed and under the right supervision. And doctors that are interested and enthusiastic about this.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, they were definitely responsible with their ideas. I mean, listen, they both believe in this. They've seen people that have done the treatment, and they know it works. But also, they're not doctors. They're not coming out saying, this should be immediately available. They're saying, hey, run your studies, do your tests and see the results. And Then allow it to be administered. If it works.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

And that's really what we're missing. We're just missing so much of that. Like, give it a chance. And that's the same for, like, psilocybin and MDMA therapies. I mean, hurdle after hurdle.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. Something back to what we were just saying before. We. Neither of us understood how this was actually administered. It's just taken orally.

[Podcast Host 3]

Oh, you found something. It's like a pill.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, I suppose it's used historically in, you know, in religious ceremonies to gain spiritual enlightenment, you know, just like. What's the other one? Ayahuasca. I can never say ayahuasca. You know, it's one of those, like, that's been used for centuries. Like, it's not new to us, right. To humans. It's just new to the Western world. It's new to, you know, modern medicine. And people are scared of things like that. Like, for whatever reason, we've seen that, you know, and maybe. Maybe we blame the war on drugs. I don't know, for people being afraid to try new things and to sort of, you know, when, like, the. What you. The clip you played at the beginning of this podcast. When something is labeled a Schedule 1, it basically shuts all doors to even do research on it. It just says there's no potential medical gain from it. And so when something is labeled that it really puts up, you know, more than tape. Like, it's a brick wall that makes it almost impossible for something to happen. So you have to get approval for that wall to come down. You have to then get people to get closer to it and help you clean up the bricks that have fallen. Like, this is, you know, just in my head, how they. How it's. They have a long journey ahead of them. And I'm, you know, in support of this, I think.

[Jan (Toyota/Azure Standard Advertiser)]

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[Podcast Host 3]

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[Podcast Host 3]

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[Jan (Toyota/Azure Standard Advertiser)]

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[Podcast Host 1]

again, like we've said over and over, you can't shut down ideas that could potentially help people in such life changing ways when they really need it. Like this isn't medical cannabis for back pain. Like this is, you know, preventing our veterans that have served their country for, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years from killing themselves.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, it's truly saving lives. It is, it's stopping families being destroyed.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

And you know, the other part of it for the general public, the addiction part of it, I mean, you know, and also depression for many people in society, if it can benefit them, it's like, look, there's never going to be a cure for these things, but if there are really good treatments in place supported by therapy.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, but the post treatment support is very critical here as well.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it should be and it has to be, but the drug itself, it just seems so effective that I don't know if people that are going down to Mexico to do ibogaine are getting a lot of post therapeutic support and it's still benefiting them greatly.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

I mean, wow. Not saying it's a cure all, but it's something. You know, this episode reminded me of how complicated the opioid, opioid crisis really was. You know, and you know, it's not just about funding, it's about creating access and breaking down the stigmas. It's like on one hand people are making so much money from the opioids, they're not looking to find any other treatment to come in and take away their money. And then it's just a bunch of lawsuits as people's lives get destroyed. Right. Which is disgusting.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. And these two, you know, Perry and Hubbard, they've. I feel like they've really only scratched the surface of what it will take to change public perception about ibogaine and psychedelics alike. They have a huge hurdle ahead of them and they're sort of these pioneers and it's gonna get worse before it gets better. I'm sure the more noise they make about this, the more pushback they're gonna get. The more traditionally conservative people and those in support of these pharmaceutical companies and their success are going to say like, you know, this isn't the right way to go. We're looking in the wrong direction. But I, as someone who feels like, you know, innovation, you know, is important, whether it sort of serves everyone or just a small portion of people, like, we have to push forward with this, even if there's a small potential that it helps people in the way they're anticipating.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

We have to continue to push. And I think these two are going to follow through with it and they're going to. They're going to take those hurdles in stride, you know.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, that's true. And coming on Rogan is the way to do it. I mean, it's. Now, millions of people have heard this message.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

And what better way to get it out? What's really nice about this? And Rogan does like having governors on. He loves chatting with them. You know, even ex governors like Perry, it's one of those things where if they make some ground, significant ground, he'd be willing to have them on again to get the update, to see how much further it's gone. Because he really wants to advocate for these people, which is wonderful. And it's hearing their personal stories makes a difference. People connect with the human side of the issues more than stats.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. Can't repeat it enough. You know, the moving stories they talked about, the passion they have for this project, you know, it makes me want to support any and all like funding and research for drugs like Ibogaine and, you know, their treatment plans and, you know, get behind this. I think some of this was eye opening for me. Some of this was known, but not really like a top of the mind type thing where it's like, you know, coming off the back of the election, coming off the back of all of these, like big topics that have been so front of mind recently. Like, this is something that can probably easily fall to the wayside for a lot of people. I would say. I don't personally know too many veterans that have experienced this. I know a few, but they aren't like, you know, day to day in my life as much as they are in yours. And so it's really like, it's. I don't want to say the word refreshing, but it's. It's a different bit of information that, like, I'm actually really grateful that I was able to hear more and learn more about. It's one of the reasons I really enjoy listening to Rogan. Like, it's always. I'm always learning something new.

[Podcast Host 3]

Right. Because where else would you have heard this? No, where else would you get that level of detail about something that we all know is a problem, we've not heard solutions for it, and it's like,

[Podcast Host 1]

okay, yeah, I mean, we've identified our news feeds. Look very different, right? Your feeds. And my feed is so different. So this stuff doesn't come up for me. I get it when I'm, you know, listening to Rogan and obviously it's really eye opening and, you know, I feel like everyone should tune in a little bit to what's going to happen in the future with this.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's it for this week. We're gonna end on that. Guys, check this podcast out with Perry and Rogan and stay tuned for what they can do with this. We hope good things and right now we just want to give a shout out all the best to our veterans out there or anybody struggling with addiction and depression. And hopefully help is on the way. All the best. And we'll talk to you guys next week.

[Podcast Host 1]

Cheers.

[Jan (Toyota/Azure Standard Advertiser)]

Hey, campers, it's Jan from Toyota. This summer we're headed to Camp Toyota and the fun starts now. We're kicking things off by kicking up mud. Jump in, campers. We're going off roading in a 4Runner. Next we're heading to the hot springs in Arav 4. And finally, park your Tundras and Tacomas around the campfire because we're roasting marshmallows. There's tundra. Start here.

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Dealer inventory may vary, so your participating

[Podcast Host 3]

Toyota dealer for details.

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Event ends June 1st.

[Podcast Host 3]

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[Jan (Toyota/Azure Standard Advertiser)]

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