← John Kiriakou's Dead Drop
Loading summary
Transcript70 lines
- [00:01]
Jack Myers
What makes a leader worth following?
- [00:02]
Tim Spengler
What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is
- [00:07]
Jack Myers
it just about machines talking to other machines? I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own, what would that take?
- [00:13]
Tim Spengler
What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together?
- [00:18]
Jack Myers
These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler.
- [00:23]
Tim Spengler
Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube.
- [00:28]
Jack Myers
We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.
- [00:35]
BetterHelp Ad Voice
A Better Help Ad hold on one second, I just need to. What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications, no expectations, just space to talk with? Better help therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy.
- [01:06]
Monday.com Ad Voice
Monday.com AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com
- [01:24]
Alan Katz
this podcast. It's a Costard and Touchstone production.
- [01:28]
John Kiriakou
I hope I've been able to convey to this point how important having a real circle of friends is in prison. And I haven't finished telling you about my circle of friends. Not necessarily circle of confidants, but circle of friends. Because in prison you befriend or you allow yourself to be befriended by the people who work best at that moment. You don't have to marry them. You don't have to be lifelong friends like I am with Mark. But in that given moment, you can count on them as friends. I'm John Kiriakou.
- [02:03]
Dead Drop Narrator
Welcome to Dead Drop.
- [02:04]
John Kiriakou
What makes a spy tick? This is episode four in our series Doing Time Like a Spy before we get back to doing time, and I sure as hell hope that's not what listening to this podcast feels like. I want to thank you for. Well, for doing time with us. Unlike a prisoner's time, your time is important that you choose to spend it with us. We do not take that for granted. Not one bit. And we don't take it for granted either that you'll like, rate, review, comment on, or share the podcast. But we would so appreciate it if you did. Visiting hours can now begin. In our last episode, I introduced you to my circle of friends. An important thing to have in a place where you really can't trust anyone. But as I pointed out some of the friendships you begin in prison resonate in ways that no other relationships can.
- [02:55]
Dead Drop Narrator
Maybe something to do with a shared experience.
- [02:58]
John Kiriakou
Whatever it is, I wanted to spend
- [03:00]
Dead Drop Narrator
a little more time introducing you to
- [03:01]
John Kiriakou
the friends of one kind or another that I made in prison. I've mentioned Robert, the Australian arsonist, a number of times. I had a lot of fun with Robert. Robert was frequently very, very honest. At the oddest times, he would lie about stupid stuff. Like, for example, he was very close friends with a prisoner from Erie, Pennsylvania. This guy had chomo written all over him. If I had seen him out on the street somewhere, I would have pointed at him and said, that's a chomo. And Robert said, no, he's a tax attorney, and he's in on some tax charge of some sort. This guy couldn't even use proper grammar, and he's a tax attorney. It's like, robert, what's wrong with you? First of all, you shouldn't be associating with pedophiles. Secondly, you should never, ever, ever lie for the pedophile, Lie to protect the pedophile. So I did what any normal person would do. I went to the law library, I typed the guy's name into the computer, and boom. Not only was he a pedophile, he was responsible for more images of children having sex with adults than anyone who had ever been arrested in the history of the FBI. Thus his 30 to life sentence. So Robert was friends with this guy. Why? Who knows? That's just how Robert was. Robert was, of course, eligible to sit at what we called the good table, which was essentially the Aryan table. But he didn't sit at the good table. He chose to sit with the rats and the pedophiles. And I never understood that. But then he would have these bursts of honesty. For example, I said to him, robert, what are you in for? I'm in for arson. Federal arson. It's a little bit unusual. I only met one other arson guy, and his only was a federal case because he burned the building down and then ran across state lines to escape. So I said, robert, what were the circumstances of your crime? It turned out Robert had been married five times. Robert was Armenian, but he was born in Israel and he was raised in Australia. His parents were Armenian and British. He had British citizenship, but spent most of his life in Australia. Spoke with an Australian accent and never got his Australian citizenship, which becomes important in a moment. He is married five different times, five different women. One of them was an American whom he married only for her money. Bankrupted her. But he opened a used car dealership in Buffalo, New York, with her money and by his own accounts, was very successful. How successful, you have to wonder, because. And this led to his problem. Robert never paid taxes, ever. Not a dime. He would charge everybody sales tax, right? Which in New York is high. It's like 7, 8, 9%, something like that. And he would just never send the money to the state. Yeah, he would just pocket it because he was a criminal. And one Christmas Eve, he went to the DMV to renew his. His dealer plates, and they said, absolutely not. You owe something like $600,000 in back taxes. We're not giving you any dealer plates until you pay your taxes. He flew into a rage at the DMV and shouted, I'm gonna come back here and burn this place to the ground. Now, if you've ever been inside a dmv, you know that there are cameras everywhere. In addition to the fact that he shouted this in front of a hundred witnesses, all trying to get their business done before the place closed for Christmas. So what did Robert do? He called two members of the Russian mafia that he knew and said, I'll give you $10,000 if you burn this DMV to the ground. Which they did. The problem was Robert was on camera shouting, I'm gonna come back here and burn this place to the ground. So they went to grab him, and he took off for Australia. Well, of course, he buys a ticket in his own name. He travels with no luggage, and the Australians are waiting for him. They arrest him, they put him in an Australian jail, which from my understanding, is worse than American jails. He's in there for six months fighting, transfer back to the United States, not thinking, wait a minute, I'm an Australian visa holder. I'm not an Australian citizen. If I'm convicted of a crime, I'll never be able to go back to Australia again. We had two kids in Australia and grandchildren in Australia and his entire families in Australia. But he's extradited to the United States, so he takes a plea. Robert never bothered to ask his attorney or to do his own research on what would happen if he's found guilty of a felony. Well, if you're found guilty of a felony in the United States, you're banned for life from the Five Eyes countries, the U.K. canada, Australia and New Zealand. Somebody mentioned something to him in prison. Oh, you're not an Australian citizen. You can't go back to Australia. What do you mean I can't go back to Australia? You're banned for life. So the whole time that I was there and he was there, he spent writing letters to the Australian ambassador, the Australian Prime Minister, the Australian Justice Minister, Australian senators, Australian parliamentary members, and nobody would help him. Nobody. The thing is, he's also not an American. And so he's got to be expelled to somewhere when he finally gets out. So they expelled him to the uk, but that's not the issue. The issue is that Robert was the most pure sociopath I had ever met. He was a pathological liar. He would lie about literally everything. Robert initially married an Australian woman. They had a son and a daughter and they got divorced. He had subsequent marriages to a Swiss woman, a Canadian woman and an American woman, which got him Canadian and American citizenship. He had the British citizenship that he was born into, but he never got his Australian citizenship. Robert claimed every career that you can imagine. Anytime a career came up in a conversation, Robert would say, I did that. He claimed to be a successful nightclub owner, a dj, a border guard, a bush pilot, the owner of the largest video store chain in Australia. The largest video store chain in Canada. The largest video store chain in America. The story always changed every time he told it. A successful used car dealer, a successful radio talk show host, a voiceover artist. He even claimed to have dated Australian international tennis champion Yvonne Gulagong. He also said Yvonne Gulagan had been Miss Universe. I said to him, robert, Yvonne Gulagan was not Miss Universe. This went on for months where we argued about Yvonne Gulagang until he finally admitted that, okay, she wasn't Miss Universe. Oh, and by the way, it wasn't Yvonne Gulagang that he had been dating. It was a woman who reminded him of Yvonne Gulagon. There was always a kernel of truth in the stories that he told. And then sometimes he was just brutally honest. For example, he and one of his wives adopted these Romanian twins from an orphanage in Romania. Turned out that they were like bad seeds. They're like four years old, five years old, they're pulling knives on each other, they're trying to set the house on fire, whatever. So what does Robert do? He puts them in a car, he drives to Washington D.C. and he abandons them at the front gate of the Romanian embassy. And I said, you did not. He said, yeah, I did. They were going to kill me in my sleep one of these days. I go, robert, it's not normal to abandon 25 year old at the front gate of a foreign embassy and then just drive away. Like, how were you not arrested for that? He didn't care. One thing about Robert, though, too, is that he was afraid of his own shadow. He was the first one to rat out the Hispanics, rat out the blacks, rat out anybody that he perceived had done him wrong. And then he was afraid of his shadow because he was convinced they were going to come after him. Sometimes they did. We decided to have some fun with Robert. At one point, Dave really hated Robert. Dave wanted Robert to check himself into solitary just to be out of our hair. And I said, come on, man, you're too hard on the guy. He's harmless. Literally, every day somebody was checking himself into solitary. For example, let's say you get into a dispute with some MS.13 guy, well, he's going to either beat you or MS.13 is going to kill you. They're going to take out a hit on you. And the only thing you can do is check yourself into solitary. I'll give you another example. Michael Douglas son, Cameron Douglas. He lived two cells down from me. Cameron Douglas was a notorious drug addict. He had a problem paying for his drugs. He had no problem paying the tattoo artists in the unit to cover his body from head to toe in tattoos. He just had problems paying for his drugs. And he would buy drugs from the Bloods, The Crips, the MS.13, this one, that one, this cartel, that cartel, and they're going to kill him. In addition to the fact that his lawyer got arrested for trying to smuggle drugs into him, and then to save himself, he ratted out the Hispanics who had been providing him with drugs. Cameron checked himself into solitary and then upgraded from a low security prison to a medium security prison in Cumberland, Maryland. Cumberland's a dangerous prison. And as soon as he arrived, as soon as he got off the bus, he said, I want to check myself into solitary because the cartels were waiting for him to kill him. You spend your entire sentence in solitary. So solitary is a 6 foot by 10 foot concrete block room. It has a steel bunk with no mattress, no pillow, no blankets, no nothing. There's a steel toilet and a steel sink. And that's it. That is literally it. But remember I said the prison is woefully overcrowded. So they put two guys in those 6 by 10 foot cells. One sleeps on the bunk, the other sleeps on the floor with nothing. No mat, no mattress, no pillow, no blankets, no coat, no nothing. And it's cold down there in the winter and smotheringly hot in the summer. You're allowed one shower a week. You're allowed one phone call a month. And you're allowed to air quotes, exercise one hour a day. So you're locked down for 23 hours. The exercise is there is a small, what looks like a doggie door in each cell. It's like for a big dog. You can crawl through that into a cage that's outside, that's just 6ft by 6ft, and walk in circles for an hour and then crawl back through the doggie door and they lock it up. That's solitary. It's not unusual for people to lose huge amounts of weight. It's also not unusual for people to lose their minds in there. The United nations has ruled that solitary confinement for more than 14 days is a form of torture. In the United States, we have people in solitary confinement for 40 years or more. Imagine 40 years without ever having contact with another human being. Unless, of course, there's one in your little teeny, tiny cell. Dave took a scissors one day that he had stolen from somebody, and he cut Robert's shoelaces right up the middle. Robert said, oh, that's not cool. I wonder who did that. Dave said, I think it was the Hispanics because you ratted him out for stealing all the meat. Robert's starting to get nervous, and who's he gonna go to for protection? The pedophiles? He's alienated everybody. Dave then wrote rat on his pillow one night. And I said to Dave, come on, man, why are you bothering him? He's gonna go home in six weeks. Just let him go. Dave was having too much fun. So for the last six weeks, Robert checked himself into solitary, and I never saw him again. He found me on Facebook, funny enough, and he's in the UK selling cars, married to wife number six. When you act like that, when you lead a life like that, that's just one lie built on another lie built on another lie. And you're just a lifelong criminal and you're devoid of any conscience, so you can't even stop yourself. It all comes tumbling down at some point, and then you've got to live with the fallout. And that's what he's doing. Robert was into get rich quick schemes. And, you know, the thing is, he was a notorious rat. It's so much safer and your life is so much easier in prison if you just mind your own business. But he just couldn't help himself.
- [15:51]
Alan Katz
This is Alan, the producer of Dead Drop. And like John, a dad. And like John, the owner of a dad bod. How's your dad bod, John?
- [16:01]
Dead Drop Narrator
Well, it's better than it's Been in a while, but not even remotely what
- [16:05]
John Kiriakou
it used to be.
- [16:06]
Dead Drop Narrator
Our bodies just don't snap back like
- [16:08]
John Kiriakou
they used to when we were in our 20s.
- [16:10]
Alan Katz
Stamina and recovery from an intense workout. Not what it was, alas. Even. Even when we eat the same and drink the same.
- [16:16]
Dead Drop Narrator
A lot of people think the classic dad bod comes from drinking more beer or eating worse. But really, there's much more to it. Here's the dirty little secret about getting older. Our bodies change. They reprogram themselves and we start storing fat and losing muscle.
- [16:32]
Alan Katz
Then there's testosterone. Most men's testosterone levels start dropping when they hit their 30s. Dropping testosterone levels make it easier to gain fat, especially around the belly. And enter Mars Men. It's a natural supplement designed to support healthy testosterone levels that can help your dad bod burn fat more efficiently and
- [16:51]
John Kiriakou
help you build lean muscle.
- [16:53]
Dead Drop Narrator
There are no weird stimulants or synthetic hormones, just real natural ingredients like Tonka
- [17:00]
Alan Katz
D. Ali, shilajit, zinc and boron.
- [17:02]
Dead Drop Narrator
It's made in the USA and every batch is third party tested.
- [17:06]
Alan Katz
When your hormones are working the way they're supposed to and your body is running the way it used to, you have more energy, work out, get easier. Want to go into the summer looking like you did in your twenties?
- [17:16]
Dead Drop Narrator
Make Mars Men part of your routine.
- [17:18]
Alan Katz
Steady all day, drive, less cravings, better gym and workout recovery.
- [17:23]
John Kiriakou
Mars Men Mars Men comes with a
- [17:25]
Alan Katz
90 day money back guarantee, so there's no risk. Worst case, you don't absolutely love it. You get your money back. But over 91% of users report higher energy level. Thousands of guys are feeling incredible results. Check out the reviews on the website. See for yourself.
- [17:41]
Dead Drop Narrator
For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts at Mengo2Mars.com that's MengotoMars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that you heard it on Dead Drop.
- [18:06]
John Kiriakou
Foreign.
- [18:10]
Acast Announcer
Powers, the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend
- [18:17]
Nikayla Matthews Akome
if you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time. Listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews Akome, host of side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side. If you can't run a side Hustle, you can't run a business. They share real tips. And so I started connecting with all these people on LinkedIn and I saw Target supplier diversity was having office hours. Real advice. Procrastination is the easiest form of resistance and the actual strategies they use to turn their Side Hustle into their main hustle. Getting back in touch with your tangible cash and sitting down and learning to give your money a job like it changes something. Check out Side Hustle Pro every week on your favorite podcast app and YouTube,
- [19:07]
Acast Announcer
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.com.
- [19:18]
Dead Drop Narrator
If you're enjoying Dead Drop, and of course we hope you are, then while you're waiting for new episodes, I'd like to suggest another great Granular story podcast from the Costard and Touchstone family Just the Photographer With David Swanson does for Photojournalism what Dead Drop does for Spies Pulitzer Prize winning photojournalist David Swanson tells you stories. His amazing news photos just can't what
- [19:43]
John Kiriakou
it felt like being in all those
- [19:45]
Dead Drop Narrator
dangerous places like war zones and natural disasters, doing his job, taking pictures. Having been to a few war zones myself, I can tell you this. Just the Photographer will put you right right there on the ground right next to David, inside his head.
- [20:01]
John Kiriakou
In fact, it's a hell of a
- [20:03]
Dead Drop Narrator
podcast and you can find it wherever you find your favorite podcasts or@costardandtouchstone.com There's a link in this episode's Show Notes. In fact, you'll find lots of great story podcasts at Costard and Touchstone, like the Donor, A DNA Horror Story, the Hall Closet, Sage, Wellness within, and the how not to Make a Movie podcast. Who knows, your next favorite podcast might be just a click away. Now back to Dead Drop.
- [20:32]
John Kiriakou
There was one other guy that I was friendly with who was a truly good human being, and that was Clint Goswick. He was one of the orderlies in the chapel when I first started working there. Clint lived in the housing unit above mine. Central, too. Usually there's no connection between Central 1 and Central 2. I mean, you'll see these guys out on the yard or in the cafeteria or whatever, but you're generally not friends. We don't go up there. They didn't come down to our Central one, but Clint lived up in Central two, and I became friendly with him. Clint was very, very religious, constantly quoting the Bible, and he meant it sincerely. And finally I said to him, what in the world are you doing here? You're the unlikeliest federal prisoner. What are you doing here? He had a Very sad story. Clint was from Texas, from a town called Wichita Falls, Texas. I remember that because Harry Nilsson, the great Harry Nilsson, had an album called Asphalt Wichita. So Falls, Wichita Falls. Clint had a successful heating and air conditioning business in Wichita Falls, Texas. Strong Christian, never a day in trouble in his life. But he had a very difficult divorce and it just wrecked him, it wrecked his self esteem, it broke him financially. Finally after this divorce, he started dating. He was 42 years old. He met this 22 year old beauty. Listen, I've been 42. I wouldn't have been able to believe that a 42 year old John would have a 21 year old, 22 year old attracted to him. This 22 year old woman was just getting out of an abusive relationship. She had a previous boyfriend who was a meth cook and he had killed himself playing Russian roulette while fueled on meth. So Clint started dating her. It didn't work out. The relationship ran its course and she began dating another meth cook who had just recently been released from prison. So three years later, Clint's forgotten about this woman. Three years later, she and her boyfriend are arrested for manufacturing meth. Clint's phone number was still in her cell phone. And Clint's father had once called her number looking for Clint. So the FBI, they're searching the records, they say, oh, phone A called phone B and phone B is in touch with phone C and phone C is also in touch with phone A. That's a conspiracy. So the FBI pulls Clint in for questioning. Clint tells the FBI that yeah, he and the woman had dated, it didn't work out, it ran its course. And they asked him, did you ever socialize with any of her friends? And he said, yeah, I had a cookout at my house one time and she invited a whole bunch of people and you know, we had a good time. The FBI then asked her and she said, yeah, we did. We had a cookout at his house and I did meth with my friends in his garage. The FBI said that's a drug conspiracy. And lo and behold, the new boyfriend, whom Clint had never met, got charged with a gun charge. Well, in federal law, if one person in a conspiracy has a gun, all the people in the conspiracy are charged with a gun charge. Clint had never met or heard of any of the other conspirators in the case. He had never used drugs, he had never manufactured drugs, he had never possessed drugs, he had never distributed drugs. He was charged with conspiracy. And he said, I didn't commit conspiracy. He pled not guilty. The prosecutors and the judge were outraged that he would go to trial, which is his constitutional right. And their words waste the taxpayer's time and money. They added that gun charge on Clint, even though he didn't have a gun. He was found guilty. His attorney told him repeatedly to take a plea. He kept saying that he believed in the justice system. He hadn't done any of these crimes. So four of the other defendants agreed, as part of their own deals, to testify against Clint, saying that he had, quote, owned the party house. That's what the big thing was, the big testimony. He had owned the party house. The jury deliberated for three days. Guilty. He and I would play racquetball every day. The weather was nice. And every day he would say the same thing. God's going to take care of me. God's testing me. He's testing my faith. And he would get these tattoos. He tripled the number of tattoos that he had on him while we were in prison. And every tattoo was a Bible verse. His whole body was just like printing the whole Bible on his body. And I used to tell him, I've never known anybody so religious, so true to his faith, yet in such a dire position. And he said, because your faith is not as strong as mine, Jesus is going to get me out of this. And guess what happened? He was released. He was released. He took advantage of the Second Chance Act. And he said, look, I didn't have the gun. I didn't have any drugs. All I did was I had a cookout and my girlfriend invited her friends. Literally, that was all that happened. And the Justice Department said, you're right, this is ridiculous. And they let him go. I had been out of prison about two years. I got a call on my cell phone. I looked at the phone, and it just had a number, and it said, wichita Falls, Texas. And I said, no possible way. I answered the phone. He says, brother. And I said, I can't believe I'm hearing your voice. He said, I'm calling you from home. What a good man he is. And you know what? He now has a beautiful relationship with his daughter and with his young granddaughter. He went back into the heating and cooling business and has found success again and goes to church every Sunday and has no ill will toward anybody. There were, as you might imagine, many very dangerous, very sick people in this prison, even though it was a low security prison. Now, the reason why there are dangerous sick people in low security prisons is that they would start out in a maximum security. You can only be transferred to a low security if you have under 20 years left on your sentence and you have good behavior. So you start off in a maximum, then you go down to a medium, then you go down to a low. And if you're really good and you don't have a violent crime, you can go to a minimum security work camp.
- [27:05]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [27:13]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [27:17]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [27:26]
Stephen
That's right.
- [27:26]
Alan Katz
Hey.
- [27:27]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [27:31]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will e even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [27:38]
Stephen
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:48]
John Kiriakou
Clyde Ware was one of the very, very few people at Loretto of whom I was afraid he was a serial killer. He had killed. Well, the authorities estimated that he had killed at least 12 women, all prostitutes. He was a long distance truck driver. In the days before DNA testing, driving from one coast to the other, he would pick up prostitutes at truck stops. He would have sex with them. He didn't want to pay them, so he would strangle them and then drive a couple of hundred miles with their dead bodies next to him and then finally throw them out on the side of the highway. The FBI knew that there was a serial killer loose in what was called the golden age of serial killers, which was roughly 1970 to 1990. They just didn't know where to look. And then finally, he picked up a 16 year old prostitute at a truck stop. He had sex with her and then he strangled her. But she lived. Now, because she was 16, that would technically make him a chomo, a child molester. Something about which he was very, very sensitive. When I first arrived in Central One, he came up to me.
- [28:55]
Dead Drop Narrator
He had just a handful of rotten,
- [28:58]
John Kiriakou
blackened nubs for teeth. He was big, at least six, four, maybe £350. An enormous man. The worst breath you've ever experienced from these rotten, black little nubs. For reasons that were never clear to me, he constantly sought my approval. He came up to me almost belligerently one day and said, are you the CIA guy? I'm thinking, ugh, am I gonna have to fight this giant? So I kind of steeled myself. He said, I did some work for the CIA back in Nam. Okay, what the fuck do you want from me? You want congratulations? I just said, okay. Then. I worked for the CIA after Nam. I was running guns to the Angolan rebels in a shrimp boat. I go, get the fuck out of here. A shrimp boat couldn't go 30 miles. And you're doing it the long way across the Atlantic to Angola. Come on, man, Think of a better story than that. And I walked away. One of the Italians said to me, be careful of him. That's one dangerous son of a bitch. And I thought, john, you're being stupid. Why are you challenging somebody like this? But instead of making him angry, it made him more determined to seek my approval. I never understood it. I still don't understand it. But he would say things like, hey, John, I know you're a Steelers fan. The Steelers are on TV on Sunday. I saved you a seat in the TV room. Which meant he punched somebody whose seat it was so that I could sit in the vacant seat and watch the game. Hey, John, I know you listen to classic rock. There's a new classic rock station at 1600am I'm like, okay, thanks, Truck. I appreciate it. So I worked hard to not piss him off. He was also violent in the unit. Several of his cellmates were pedophiles. And Truck was frequently in solitary for just beating the shit out of these guys. And usually it was silly stuff like one of them turned the light on while he was taking a nap, and he popped up out of bed and beat this guy into a heap. One guy was snoring, a pedophile was snoring. And he beat the hell out of the guy while the guy was in his bed. Very volatile, very dangerous, likely mentally ill, but I was careful not to piss him off. So with that as background, there was another guy in the prison. Larry Raviv. Larry looked like the Cat in the Hat in that he had this oddly elongated head. It had to be some kind of a birth defect. I never saw anybody with a rectangular head before. Larry had moved down from a medium security prison. He wanted to move into my room. We had one empty bunk. When Dave was sent to solitary, I said, well, wait a minute. You can't just move into the room. I want to know your crime, because we don't allow pedophiles in our room. He said, I'm not a Pedophile. I said, what's your crime? Murder for hire. I don't think I like that any more than a pedophile. What were the circumstances? I owed the mob 100 grand in gambling debts, and I couldn't pay it. So I took a life insurance policy out on my business partner and I hired a hitman to kill him. And then he got caught, and I got caught. I said, yeah, I need to think about that, and I need to talk to the other guys. I'm not an idiot. I know everybody in prison's lying. So I went to the law library and I looked him up. Some of that was true. What was really true was, of course he's going to be the very first person that the cops look at. As soon as they arrested him, he ratted out the shooter. He was able to negotiate 20 years for murder for hire, which is normally life without parole, in exchange for his testimony against the shooter. The shooter was a guy that he knew from new orleans, louisiana. The cops in new orleans grabbed the shooter, extradited him back to pittsburgh, and while he's awaiting trial, he has a heart attack and dies. But the cops had to respect the deal that they had negotiated with raviv. So he got lucky. He got 20 years for. For a crime that should have been life without parole. There's no way this guy's moving into our cell. No way. I don't want to live with somebody like him. That made him fly into a rage. But he knew not to confront me face to face one day. Jake tapper, he's with cnn now, but at the time he was with abc news. Jake and I worked at abc news together. Jake came up to the prison to interview me, and when he arrived, I got called to the lieutenant's office to sign the waiver so I could give the interview. Now, as I've mentioned before, normally if you're called to the lieutenant's office, it's because you're going to solitary kiriakou lieutenant's office. Immediately I go down there, I knew what it was for because I knew that jake was coming that day. So I go down there, I sign the waiver, I give jake his interview, and I go back up to the unit. Well, in the TV room off to the side, there are three computers, and that's for the internal email system. I'm sitting there with truck watching the steelers. Raviv doesn't realize that I'm sitting literally two feet behind him. He's standing there at the computer, and he turns to this little guy next to him and he says, did you hear kiriakou got called down to the lieutenant's office today? That guy's a fucking rat. He went down there to rat us out. Well, if you call somebody a rat and they're not, blood's going to be spilled. I did not react in any way. Truck said, did you hear that? That fucking guy just called you a rat. But I saw my opportunity. I leaned over to truck. An hour ago, I heard him call you a pedophile. Truck looked at me. He didn't say a single word. He got up, walked over to raviv and beat him to unconsciousness. Now, as I've mentioned, whenever there's a fight, everybody scatters like cockroaches. When you turn the lights on. I sat there and I watched the steelers game. Next thing you know, the red light comes on, the alarm. Right, because there's a fight. Well, a fight again, in air quotes. Raviv's on the ground unconscious. Truck is covered in blood, and I'm watching the game. Everybody else bolted as soon as I heard the alarm. I got up and walked back to my cell. Then I hear kariako, lieutenant's office. Immediately. So I stroll down there. I said, what's up? What's up? You tell us what's up? The Steelers are up 17 7. Oh, you're gonna be smart guy now? I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about. Tell us about the fight. I said there was a fight. What fight? Oh, very funny, very funny. We saw you from four different cameras
- [35:31]
Dead Drop Narrator
sitting there watching TV while one guy
- [35:34]
John Kiriakou
was beating the hell out of another guy.
- [35:36]
Dead Drop Narrator
Well, it sounds to me like you
- [35:37]
John Kiriakou
need to talk to those guys because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Oh, this is the game you want to play? I'm not playing any game. I'm just saying, you know what? Maybe it was you that was fighting. Huh? Do you ever think of that? Maybe you created the fight to try to blame me for something. Maybe you're the one. Remember, admit nothing, deny everything. Make counter accusations, and finally the lieutenant says, get the fuck out of my office. Exactly. And I got up and walked out. Truck was sent to solitary. He was formally charged with assault. They added five years onto his 40 year sentence. And Raviv? They had to land a helicopter in the yard to life, flight him to pittsburgh, skull fracture, the whole nine yards. Six weeks later, he's released from the hospital and returned to the prison. Word quickly got around what I had done, and so he came up to me with his head bowed down really low. And he says, I just wanted to say I'm sorry for calling you a rat. I should never have done that. I don't know what came over me. And I said, look at me, Larry. Look at me. And he looks at me. I said, as God is my witness, if I ever hear my name cross your lips ever again, you're dead. And they won't have any idea what happened to you. Staring into the abyss can have its issues. It's only with retrospect that I can see just how dark I went at Loretto. Spoiler alert. I was still quite a ways from hitting peak darkness. And from there, it was going to be much harder to keep these prison adaptations under any sort of control. In the next episode, the pen is mightier than the sword. Mightier than a bunch of corrupt prison officials. Anyway, as always, thank you for listening and thank you even more for sharing your enjoyment of the podcast via the
- [37:36]
Dead Drop Narrator
likes, ratings, reviews and comments. It would be the abyss for for us without you.
- [37:41]
John Kiriakou
Seriously. Until next time, I'm John Kiriakou.
- [37:45]
Dead Drop Narrator
Dead drop is written by John Kiriakou and Alan Katz. Kostart and Touchstone productions produces the podcast and John Kiriakou, Alan Katz and Nick Mechanic are its executive producers.
- [38:08]
Alan Katz
This podcast, it's a Costard and Touchstone production.
- [38:16]
Acast Announcer
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [38:23]
Brooke Devard
Hello? Hello, it's Brooke Devard from naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care, journeys, we wellness tips and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing scrapbook, search for naked beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.
- [39:07]
Monday.com Ad Voice
Okay, caller one wins courtside seats to tonight's game. What? I won floor seats. You did? I've been calling for 13 months. Wait. Chris. Yes. I finally did it. What are you gonna wear? Men's wearhouse. They've got today's looks for any occasion and I need to look like a celebrity. Don't want to stick out. Exactly They've got Chill Floor Flex by Kenneth Cole, Joseph Abood, and a tailor at every store for the perfect fit. Congrats. You can stop calling now. Not a chance. Hit any look for every occasion at Men's Wearhouse. Love the way you look.
- [39:39]
Acast Announcer
ACAST powers the World's Best Podcasts here's the show that we recommend.
- [39:49]
James Richardson
Hello there. I'm James Richardson and I host the Toady Football Show. Now this summer, the biggest sporting event in the world, the Football Men's World cup, is heading to Canada, Mexico, and especially the United States. We're going to be there too. We are packing up and heading to Los Angeles for the duration. Which means that every day straight after the last match has concluded, you can catch some hot takes, instant reaction, and insightful analysis from ourselves sat around the pool in la. Sounds like we're going to have a lot of fun doing it. I hope you're going to be joining us too. It's from June 10th all the way up to July 19th, the day of the final. Just search for the Totally Football show wherever you get your podcast.
- [40:39]
Acast Announcer
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.