Podcast Summary: Jokerman Episode on "Billy Joel: AND SO IT GOES" Documentary

Introduction

In this engaging episode of the Jokerman Podcast, host Ian delves deep into the newly released Billy Joel documentary titled "Billy Joel: AND SO IT GOES," directed by Susan Lacy and Jessica Levin. Premiering on July 18, 2025, on HBO, this two-part series offers a comprehensive exploration of Billy Joel's illustrious 50-year career, personal life, and enduring legacy in the music world.

Documentary Background and Timing

Ian sets the stage by highlighting the serendipitous timing of the documentary's release amidst the "Summer of Joel" series on the Jokerman Podcast. He emphasizes the alignment of stars that led to this timely premiere.

• Susan Lacy (02:56): "A definitive film about Billy Joel needed to be made. I mean, a 50-year career. And that had not happened."

The conversation traces the documentary's inception, which began over five-six years ago when Susan and her collaborator Steve Cohen considered creating a film about Joel. Initial attempts through American Masters PBS and later Sony fell through until Playtone, Tom Hanks and Gary Getzman's company, expressed interest, leading to HBO's involvement.

Billy Joel: Why a Five-Hour Documentary?

Susan elaborates on the necessity of such an extensive documentary, stating that Billy Joel's career depth and complexity warranted a detailed portrayal. The film captures his journey from his upbringing in Long Island, pre-fame struggles, band dynamics, to his monumental performances and records.

• Susan Lacy (04:56): "When Billy agreed to do it, I don't think it was an easy decision because he really actually says he doesn't like to talk about himself."

Billy Joel's Relationship with Critics

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Billy Joel's tumultuous relationship with music critics. Despite his massive commercial success and beloved fanbase, Joel often found himself at odds with critical reception.

• Jessica Levin (08:28): "He was so diverse and was so, you know, his influences were so diverse that the critics didn't really know how to categorize him."

They explore how Joel's eclectic musical style, blending Broadway influences, ballads, and storytelling songs, perplexed critics who struggled to pigeonhole him. This disconnect contributed to moments of frustration for Joel, who aspired to be recognized as a bona fide rock and roll artist rather than just a balladeer.

• Susan Lacy (12:07): "Billy never had those great designs on being one thing or another. He just followed his heart musically."

Use of Billy Joel's Music in the Documentary

Both directors express pride in the documentary's extensive use of Billy Joel's own music to underscore the narrative, eschewing traditional scoring methods.

• Jessica Levin (14:54): "The very first thing at the end of the film to say the original score of this film is entirely from Billy Joel's compositions."

A remarkable 110 out of Joel's 121 songs were incorporated, enhancing the film's emotional and storytelling depth. They highlight how the music not only serves as a backdrop but also as a narrative device that reflects Joel's personal and artistic evolution.

Favorite Songs and Deep Cuts

Susan and Jessica share their personal favorite Billy Joel tracks featured in the documentary, providing insights into their significance.

• Susan Lacy (18:54): "Vienna, Down Easter, Alexa, I really like Surprises, and Lullaby."

Jessica adds her preferences, including "She's Got Away," "Street Life Serenade," and "Baby Grand," the latter being a poignant piece written for Ray Charles, symbolizing Joel's deep connection to the piano.

• Jessica Levin (20:00): "She's Got Away is one of my favorites because it was really the first ballad he wrote that became a song that people know."

Interviews and Contributors

The documentary boasts an impressive roster of interviewees, ranging from legendary artists like Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen to unexpected voices like Nas and Pink. These diverse perspectives underscore Joel's broad influence across different music genres and generations.

• Susan Lacy (26:27): "Paul McCartney was a huge influence on Billy Joel and their friends... Bruce is obvious for the reasons I just said."

Jessica highlights Nas's contribution, discussing how Joel's music has been sampled in rap, illustrating Joel's pervasive cultural impact.

Filmmaking Approach and Editorial Independence

Susan emphasizes the directors' commitment to authenticity and truth, highlighting that Billy Joel had no control over the documentary's content.

• Susan Lacy (32:21): "He said, tell the truth. Just tell the truth. And there was absolutely no attempt to interfere with this film at all."

This approach ensured a candid portrayal, including sensitive aspects of Joel's personal life, as evidenced by the inclusion of interviews with his four wives and close family members.

Comparison with Bob Dylan's "No Direction Home"

Drawing parallels with Susan Lacy's previous work on Bob Dylan's documentary "No Direction Home," the conversation touches on the different methodologies and personal engagements with their respective subjects. While Dylan's documentary relied heavily on archival interviews conducted by Jeff Rosen, Joel's film benefits from direct participation and extensive musical integration.

• Susan Lacy (40:30): "He didn't see the film till it was finished. He said, tell the truth."

Billy Joel's Legacy and Cultural Impact

The episode underscores Joel's enduring legacy, noting how his music continues to resonate across generations and genres. References to contemporary artists like Olivia Rodrigo demonstrate Joel's ongoing cultural relevance.

• Susan Lacy (30:27): "He is so embedded in the culture. We ended up taking that whole sequence kind of out."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The documentary concludes poignantly with Billy Joel's final performances at Madison Square Garden, symbolizing the culmination of his career and personal journey. Susan and Jessica express their pride in crafting a film that not only celebrates Joel's musical achievements but also delves into his personal struggles and triumphs.

• Susan Lacy (50:04): "I really love those cinematic opens and closes. They were influenced by his memoir."

Ian wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to watch the documentary and engage with more content through the Jokerman Podcast's Patreon.

Notable Quotes

• Susan Lacy (02:56): "A definitive film about Billy Joel needed to be made. I mean, a 50-year career. And that had not happened."

• Jessica Levin (08:28): "He was so diverse and was so, you know, his influences were so diverse that the critics didn't really know how to categorize him."

• Susan Lacy (12:07): "Billy never had those great designs on being one thing or another. He just followed his heart musically."

• Jessica Levin (14:54): "The very first thing at the end of the film to say the original score of this film is entirely from Billy Joel's compositions."

• Susan Lacy (32:21): "He said, tell the truth. Just tell the truth. And there was absolutely no attempt to interfere with this film at all."

Final Recommendation

For fans of Billy Joel, music documentaries, or in-depth biographical films, "Billy Joel: AND SO IT GOES" promises a rich, comprehensive, and heartfelt portrayal of one of America's most beloved singer-songwriters. The Jokerman Podcast highly recommends tuning into this enlightening two-part series on HBO.