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- [00:11]
Host 1
There's so much I'm not alone. Hello.
- [00:30]
Host 2
Welcome to a special Jokerman bulletin. An emergency episode, you could say. Yeah, but that feels like the wrong word.
- [00:50]
Host 1
Yeah. Brian Wilson has passed, as I'm sure everyone listening to this is aware. Uh, and, yeah, I don't know, I don't, I don't really know. You know, I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of anything right now. I, I don't know about you, but I'm certainly still allowing it to sort of seep into me that this has actually happened. Um, but I do, I mean, I don't know. I, I, I, you were the first one I thought of when I heard the news and, and so, yeah, likewise.
- [01:28]
Host 2
Yeah, I woke up to you texting me about it. I guess it was announced at around 9:45am today on Wednesday, June 11, 2025. And I woke up at 10.
- [01:45]
Host 1
Yeah. Not, I'm sure, I'm sure not the best news that you've ever woken up to.
- [01:51]
Host 2
No, I mean, this is one of those type situations where it's, it, the response says everything. The response that you see so visibly says everything. It's not like one person has the, the, the thing to say. It's, it's like a overwhelming sense of an outpouring of feeling for this person.
- [02:25]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [02:26]
Host 2
Coming from, from every corner, from every person, everyone all across who is. Any medium, who, anybody who is. And obviously musicians, but notably not just musicians at all, like, most. Like, it's not limited to people who are like, oh, I know music. So I'm sad. It's, this is about as wide and pervasive a response as there could be for anybody.
- [03:00]
Host 1
One of the big ones, I mean, one of the biggest ones that there could be. And you know, we can't sit here and say that this is, you know, Brian lived a good life. You know, I think it's worth saying.
- [03:12]
Host 2
Well, he lived a very difficult life at times. He did throughout.
- [03:17]
Host 1
He got his money's worth, is what I mean to say.
- [03:20]
Host 2
He, he lived. Yeah, it's. Yes.
- [03:24]
Host 1
Well, I mean, and that's one of the things, you know, I, Again, I, I don't really know that I have a whole litany of cogent thoughts to run through here. But that is one of the things that I've been dwelling on, you know, in, in these couple hours since the news broke, beyond just, you know, listening to as much of his music as I can, which, you know, we've been doing and will continue to be doing certainly. But, you Know, perseverance. I think, you know, Brian is, yes, someone who lived a challenging life and certainly went through many years of difficult circumstances. Physically difficult, mentally and emotionally clearly difficult, you know, financially, family wise difficult. And I think a lot of the, you know, received wisdom about him is that he's, you know, this soul who's too pure for the world and naive and childlike and innocent and that that's why we love him. And there is some degree of truth to all of that, certainly. But, I mean, not only the ability, but the willingness that he showed throughout the course of his life to one way or another, power through these just overwhelming circumstances that he happened to face, to come out, to emerge on the other side, a whole man, a whole individual, stronger man than he ever had been, and go on to this just extraordinary second act in his life. Whether it's as a musician, as a husband, as a father, as a friend, everything that he's done under his own name since 1988, the return to performance, the resurrection of smile, things like that lucky old son. It's just one of the most. In a life of remarkable things. And obviously many people have already commented on many of these remarkable things and will continue to do so. Just the. I think the fortitude and the strength that he ultimately proved that he had is one of the most remarkable of all the remarkable things.
- [05:35]
Host 2
To me, yeah, I was listening again to that song. It's Not Easy Being Me, which was. I don't know exactly what year that was actually written and recorded, but that one is. I think of that as. I just keep coming back to that one is like a. I think it's one of the most important or impressive things that he ever made. And that song in particular, I feel like, is as raw and direct as he ever was about the difficulty of living through his own mental storms. And he's just. The fact that he made that song, I mean, was lived to make that song. And then that. That it's like one masterpiece sort of like of many, like that. Most people don't know that song even. And it's just like as powerful and creatively daring and beautiful as anything he ever made. And yeah, I think it also kind of goes against the. The notion that he was this too pure, that he was naive in some ways, sure, but not. He was not naive to his own suffering and that if that were the case, he wouldn't have been the artist he was like that. That's not the case. He was able to experience and also use that to understand for himself and to Help everybody understand, I think, where. What the highs and lows are of. Of experience and to illustrate and to give those life and in music. And he. I think it's just. I would want to point out that. That I. That aspect of his music, of his. Everything that he does, that it's so beautiful and light and spiritual and sacred and colorful, and all of that is. Is despite a incessant dragging down, like a feeling of. Of worthlessness that he dealt with.
- [08:24]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the ability for him to reclaim himself and his life and his legacy is just inspiring to me. Among many, many other things that are inspiring to me. There's some aspects of someone like Brian Wilson that are just, you know, he's one of the great American composers, conductors, songwriters, melodicists, whatever, you know, whatever. And that is like, just. It's an unbelievable talent. It's not anything that I'm ever going to be able to do that any of us are really ever going to be able to do. To hear music, to see music, to make music like Brian Wilson. He's touched by God in that sense, but the. The fortitude and the willingness to take command of his circumstances despite it all. By all rights, by any measure of anything, Brian should have just walked away from it all, curled up, lived, retired from public existence, and just continued to exist on the millions of dollars presumably he would have made from whatever royalties would have come through. But after the 1980s, he didn't need to do anything. But that's what's so joyful, really, I think, ultimately about his life, is that it was. I don't know, it's just. We're stuck, obviously, in the Beach Boys series right now, kind of in the doldrums of the Beach Boys material. And we've already come so far and talked about so many records, but I do almost feel in some ways the series hasn't even begun, because we haven't. We're still. This is all prelude to kind of the real ultimate third act, or the major climax of this whole thing is everything that he's gonna go on to achieve. And it's just, obviously a lot of the artists that we've talked about go on to big, great, unprecedented things later on in their career. But I can't for the life of me think of any of them that went through the degrees of struggles that Brian did and then the kind of transformation that they're able to face. Obviously, everyone goes through ups and downs and has hard times, but it's just. I mean, unprecedented.
- [11:10]
Host 2
Yeah, I. I mean, in regards to the music that is considered lesser Beach Boys, which is like where, you know, today we. We were on the schedule is us talking about. We're going to talk about looking back country love, and we're going to talk about three different Mike Love solo albums.
- [11:38]
Host 1
We can push that to tomorrow, I think.
- [11:40]
Host 2
I think out of respect, we can.
- [11:41]
Host 1
I was actually listening.
- [11:42]
Host 2
This is not the. To denigrate.
- [11:46]
Host 1
No, certainly not. I was literally listening to. I had a friend of mine just send me a text. That's how I heard about this. I was listening to Brian's back.
- [11:54]
Host 2
Brian's back, yes.
- [11:57]
Host 1
As I discovered this, which, you know, we can come back to that. I guess when we talk about Brian's.
- [12:05]
Host 2
Back, it's not the time. I would just say to be like, fuck, Mike Love, as some people are using. I feel like that's in pretty. It's in terrible taste. And anyway, that's. That's not where the focus should be.
- [12:21]
Host 1
Music was in his soul, I think we can say, you know, regardless of whatever sort of obstacles other people in his life, the world, his own internal chemistry, you know, the way his brain worked, any obstacles that any of those things, people, places might have presented, like he could not help but continue to make music, he was music chart a path forward. Exactly. One other thing that I admire so much about Brian, many things I admire about Brian, but one other thing I've been thinking about here in this, again, very short amount of time that we've had to begin to wrestle with this news is just how much Brian loved music, you know, and like that. Like, that's. So as someone who, you know, as two people, I think, who also love music quite a bit, as we've hopefully evinced on this show. That's. So. I don't know, is again, is something that I can kind of see in myself, and it kind of makes me want to be more like that and better at that. The way that Brian was so clearly just invigorated and deeply passionate about music. I remember sometimes I come back to the conversation we had with Alexis on the Surf's up episode about different types of art and whether a painting can do to you what a song does. I was saying, basically, it can't. Nothing can do to me what a great song can do, just in terms of evincing a spontaneous emotional reaction. I think Brian just felt that same way. There's that video. I mean, there's so many videos, but there's that one, you know, that video where he's, like, sitting on, like, A grass lawn or something. And whoever's behind the camera is just like saying, brian, what's your favorite Ronette song? Brian, what's your favorite Beatles song? Brian, what's your favorite Bob Dylan song? And he's just reeling this stuff off like Rain Man. It's like. He's like a pop song Terminator, but not in like a weird fetishistic way. It's just like.
- [14:37]
Host 2
It's just so close to the surface.
- [14:39]
Host 1
Exactly. It's just hardwired into his brain and body and heart and soul. Like, that's what that music was literally in his soul. I don't know how else to put it. Well, would have been a great master. Brian Wilson.
- [14:56]
Host 2
No.
- [14:57]
Host 1
Yeah. Certainly not.
- [15:01]
Host 2
I don't know what else to say for now. I don't know that we need to make this into a. I also just need to sit down and listen to some of Brian Wilson music right now. But, yeah, this is. Yeah. I'm glad that we're doing what we're doing and that we're in the middle of it as this happens. If there were ever a time for this to happen, I'm glad that we have found ourselves in a situation where we can, I think, do as much as either of us could possibly think to do. We're in the middle of doing it in terms of honoring the man and the music. So I'm. I'm just grateful to be in that position because that's. It just feels right to be. Be doing that at this time.
- [15:55]
Host 1
Yes. No question. I mean, you know, whatever could be said would be said like, we're not. This. Whatever this is. I hesitate to even call it an episode, is like, this, not the final statement on Brian Wilson's legacy. And it's not. It's shocking. Right. But I think the thing that we can do, the best thing we can do, and the thing that we will do is just keep doing it. And I think, like I was saying a few minutes ago, I feel like everything we've done so far has really only been leading up to what we're about to get into on the show. And that's, you know, I mean, that's what Brian Wilson is as much as he is Pet Sounds and Don't Worry Baby and Beach Boys Love youe. Brian Wilson is also love and mercy and imagination and Smile and that Lucky Old Son and songs in the Key of Disney. It's. He's. There's a whole lot.
- [16:56]
Host 2
Don't worry. He's also Songs in the Key of Disney.
- [16:59]
Host 1
He is.
- [17:00]
Host 2
I've been listening to this. I'm not trying to say that that's not good.
- [17:06]
Host 1
I mean, this is. I mean, it's a very sad thing. You don't need me to say that. Pretty self evident. But, you know, the silver lining, the saving grace of something like this is the music, the records, you know, that is. That is what. That's literally what they are. They are records of time on earth. Records of what a human being, this human being was capable of seeing, hearing, and ultimately realizing for all of the rest of us to hear. You know, it's natural, I think, to want to memorialize and remember someone like this and hear other people do so talk to you or whoever, someone else for whom this person and their art is as significant as it is for you or for me, whatever, but. But ultimately we honor him. We'll always be able to honor him by returning to him his work, the music that was in his soul. And that he did the great honor of translating, recording and making available for as long as we're. As long as we're kicking around in this dusty corner of the universe.
- [18:59]
Host 2
I also just want to know, I mean, just what a thing to have. Like the words that everyone knows you by to be Love and Mercy is like. Just like the thing that you are known for as like a phrase that is just separate from his entire career. There's also that, like a song that came out long after his most famous material had completely penetrated the popular consciousness. There's this other song that defines so much of. Of what we think of as this man.
- [19:47]
Host 1
You can never summarize a man's career in a statement or a catchphrase or a couple words. But if you gotta boil it down to just a couple, I think Love and Mercy is as good as it gets for Brian Wilson.
- [20:14]
C
All there is to see make me sad about everything Let me see what there is to see Sa. Okay, okay, okay. Love and mercy that's what you need tonight so Love and mercy to you and your friends tonight Love and mercy.
- [22:27]
Host 2
That'S a very pretty song. I might say so.