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- [00:00]
Ian
Jokerman podcast is brought to you by Distrokid and their new direct to fan tool. Allowing any artist to sell merch. Distrokid Direct allows artists to create a merch store in minutes without any upfront costs or any technical skills or know how they'll take care of all the logistics and the nitty gritty. And as with distribution through Distrokid, they never take a cut of the proceeds. You, the artist, keep 100% of your earnings. Once again, that's Distrokid Direct. Open a store today@distrokid.com direct. Welcome back to Jokerman. I'm Ian. Little bonus dispatch for you here. Most recent episode, of course, just went up. Our look back at the All Star tribute to Brian Wilson. That's available now on the Jokerman Patreon. As we mentioned, in that episode, the tribute was Produced by one Mr. David Leaf, who just so happens to be a friend of the pod. David and I were emailing recently about a couple other things and I mentioned to him that we were doing an episode on the tribute and he said, hey, that's so great. It's the 25th anniversary coming up in March. Why don't we, why don't we catch up about it and trade some stories about that beautiful night there in New York City a quarter century ago. So we, we did just that. David hopped on with us the other day to fill us in on the whole process behind the tribute. Brian's participation in it, its significance for the future of his career. Really great chat. As we were last year when David came on to talk about his latest book on Smile. We were blessed just to get to hear from a man who saw it all firsthand, was there right alongside Brian every step of the way for the last several decades of his life and career. David was so generous with his time, only felt right to be generous with the distribution of the episode. So instead of tacking it on to the last one, here it is for free on the good old Jokerman public feed. Here's David. David Leaf. Welcome back to Jokerman.
- [02:41]
David Leaf
Always happy to be with you, Ian.
- [02:43]
Ian
It's, it's pleasure. You're with us every week when I'm, when I'm quoting endlessly from the book, which we're well into the 2022 edition at this point. This episode is going up kind of contemporaneous with our look at the All Star tribute to Brian Wilson, which is marking its 25th anniversary in just a few weeks, I think. And so we're excited to have you here to tell you all about or tell you all about it, have you.
- [03:17]
David Leaf
Tell us all about was an amazing event. And I'm happy to tell you as much as I can that fits the bill.
- [03:26]
Ian
I mean, maybe you could just start, David, by telling us, like I read a little bit of the history that you wrote about the event, you know, in our previous episode about it. But, you know, maybe we could just hear it from the horse's mouth here. How did you even kind of land on this idea to celebrate Brian?
- [03:45]
David Leaf
Well, in the 1990s, when Brian was freed from as. As he described it, nine years in prison and he and Melinda got back together, Brian was not touring. There wasn't even the. The hint of a notion of an idea that he would ever tour. So, you know, I said to myself, I said to Melinda, I said, God, I've got to do some sort of tribute concert where so Brian can. Can see with his own eyes exactly how beloved he and his music are. Because, you know, in show business, it's a very strange thing, but people want to. To be your friend by coming up and telling you, oh, I was talking to so and so, and he really loves your music. Well, it's kind of, you know, when you hear it, at least that's what you think. It may indeed be, be true and sincere, but you don't really know it until you see it. And so this idea formed to do this tribute to Brian. I also was. I also spoke with him about doing a classical concert of Smile, which he. He loved the idea. I said, you know, Brian, let's get a great orchestra and a great choir and this music is too beautiful not to be heard. And he said, good, I deserve it. So he was. He was all up for being. For his music being honored in this way. But it really wasn't until I connected with my friendship Racklin, that this project began to gather real steam. No, no one I spoke to in the 90s thought this was a good idea. The Beach Boys brand, if you will, had become nostalgia and had become somewhat degraded. Dennis had passed away. You know, Carl would soon pass away. And, and so there wasn't. There wasn't this groundswell of, yes, let's play Trip, let's pay tribute to Brian. But Chip really knew a lot of players in. In the world. He had been the Beach Boys agent in the 70s. He'd been Carl Wilson's manager agent for a little while in. In the 1980s. And he. And he knew everybody and he loved the music deeply and sincerely. Chip and his. And his and his pal had put on the Beach Boys first concert at Carnegie hall, which was a big deal back in the 70s when it happened. So Chip was, we have to acknowledge he has passed sadly to. Chip was the right partner for this. And I say that not because he was a great guide, which he was, but because he knew Ed Mike cone, who was the head of Radio City Entertainment, which was a division of Madison Square Gardens Universe and ran Radio City Musical. And Ed Micone and Chip had gone to school together, high school together. And, and Chip had promoted a concert for Ed's high school band. So they really went way back. And, and so when, when Ship suggested this to, to Eddie, he was like, well, that sounds like a really good idea. And, and then he spoke to his senior executive VP of, of programming, Brian diamond. And, and Brian had just worked with tnt, the, the network that I don't think is around anymore, on a Johnny Cash tribute. And they were all in. They only had one condition. You got to bring us two major stars that we can publicize this with. And getting the first one was easy. I asked Elton John and he, he said something, I don't know if he was Sir Elton John at that point, but he said something that, that, that artists and managers never ever say when there's a tribute concert. Usually they say, who else is going to be there? And he said, I don't care who. Who else is going to be there? I will be there. You could tell Brian I'll be there. And so we had one major, major star and we struggled to get a second. We had a lot of maybes from people. Billy Joel, Paul Simon, etc, and Chip Racklin had worked with Billy Joel way back before Billy Joel became a star. So he had a long relationship with Billy. So, so, so everyone was kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know, who's going to be the second before I say yes. And what happened was I had, I had just worked with Phil Ramon on a project and the late great engineer and producer who had worked so closely with Billy Joel and Paul Simon. And when we brought him on as the musical director of the show, because you need somebody who's going to be there on stage, at rehearsal, in the truck, etc, making sure it sounds right.
- [09:29]
Ian
Sure.
- [09:30]
David Leaf
Because artists like, like Paul Simon and Billy Joel want to know that they're going to be protected. And the moment we got Phil to, to say, yeah, I can, I, I can do that, I can, I can fit that into my schedule. I'd love to do it. Paul And Billy said yes. And we had the, the superstars you need to make a tribute like this work. And, and a lot of, a lot of people fell into place. Anna, Nancy Wilson from Hart, David. There were just, you know, when you look at the lineup, you, you, you kind of shake your head and say how'd they get all those people? Well, we got all those people because the music they were paying tribute to was, you know, indisputably, you know, one of the great bodies of work.
- [10:27]
Ian
Absolutely. And I mean to say nothing of the, the music performing there, many of whom you just named and that we all enjoyed, you know, watching and listening to. There's also some fantastic like presenters that are involved as well who are, I believe like, I think those are from what I understand, just like you kind of wrote those little snippets of biography that were delivered there. I think for us the ones that were most notable were Sir George Martin and then of course Dennis Hopper. How did you get, how did you get them involved?
- [11:01]
David Leaf
Well, we had, we had two talent producers, Ali Gifford and Tisha Fine who were veterans in the business. Sir George I, I got, I had worked with Sir George a couple of times and he should have been King of England. He's one of the classiest, greatest gentlemen you could ever possibly meet. And I, and I sent him a note back in those days it might, it might have gone by facts, I don't, I don't recall exactly but I, I was kind of bothered that I hadn't heard back after I don't know how many days it was and, and my late wife said well did you tell him that all expenses were going to be paid? And I said no, I didn't. So, so I sent him like an email saying, you know, by the way, of course we'll be covering your hotel etc. And the, the night I did that around 4 in the morning I heard the fax machine. We, I lived in a two bedroom apartment then and I heard the fax machine go off in the office.
- [12:15]
Ian
Oh my goodness.
- [12:16]
David Leaf
It's like who is faxing me at 4 o' clock in the morning? And it was a note from Sir George Martin. Wow. And, and I, and I got up at a, that bleary eyed and I went in and, and, and the note was something like wild lorries couldn't keep me from being there. I, you know, I will be there.
- [12:34]
Evan
And it's the most British thing I've ever heard that phrase.
- [12:41]
David Leaf
It, it was a very British phrase for sure. And everybody was wanted to, to say hello to George Martin. I Mean, he, he has, he carries, he carries himself that way. He's completely approachable. But for so many of the people on the show, the reason they were in the business were the Beatles. So to get to, so George, George was our representative of the Beatles, if you will.
- [13:14]
Evan
In a way, he's, he's kind of a perfect, maybe even a more perfect representative of, of the Beatles for this particular occasion, for Brian, because it occurs to me watching it, he's, you know, in terms of Brian's capacity as a producer, which is like so hugely important, having, having Martin there is like specifically seems to honor that aspect of, of what Brian does.
- [13:45]
David Leaf
It's true in many ways. And we got Paul McCartney into the package, so Paul was there on screen. But what I noticed about Brian, who was watching the show from the side of the stage, and I wrote, I wrote the script and I wrote the introductions and I wrote the voiceovers for all the, all the packages. What again, goes back to what I said at the beginning. Brian is seeing George Martin with his own eyes, say these things about him, right? And it had a big impact on him. It's like, oh, I really, I really was a big deal, just despite what people in my world might have fought against. And so it was a very, it was more than a cleansing night. It was a monstrously important night for Brian in so many ways. And Sir George's presence was right at the top of the list.
- [14:55]
Ian
Absolutely. And I think the element of that, that brings it all home is the Dennis Hopper piece. He's the last of, I think the four folks who come on to deliver some of those biographical snippets. And his section, the final one, right before he introduces Brian, is a pretty, you know, no holds barred look at assessment of the many struggles that Brian went through that we have cataloged quite in detail on our podcast and that you obviously have cataloged in even greater detail throughout your entire career. I want, I guess, can you, can you just talk about the significance of including that subject in such an otherwise kind of celebratory and star spangled evening, like not Sean shying away from some of the difficult and, and real true darkness that Brian had to battle through?
- [15:47]
David Leaf
Well, I, I think the whole point of this joyous music, some of which, you know, like pet sounds, isn't necessarily joyous. It's heartbreaking, is where did it come from? So there was no question that I wanted to include it. What was funny about Dennis Hopper's appearance was there was after the package, I had written a few sentences for him to say before he said, ladies and gentlemen, Brian Wilson. And I was quite surprised that when the package was over, he just said, ladies and gentlemen, Brian Wilson. His instinct was, okay, we've heard enough. There's nothing more I need to say. Let's get the guy out here.
- [16:41]
Ian
And I mean, it is such an emotional moment when he just like Brian comes on at the end of that package and Brian just comes on and it's just an instant standing ovation throughout all of Radio City. And, you know, it's unbelievable.
- [16:53]
David Leaf
Yeah. You know, New York has always been the city that got and worshiped Brian the most. The same way London outside the country as the city that did and does. And so he just comes out. It's kind of a wave of his hand. And you know, he's. He knew who he was. He knew what a big deal he was. He just, through the years had been beaten down by people who wanted him to be their version of Brian Wilson. And this evening allowed him to be his version of Brian Wilson. Now, one kind of ironic note was when, when, when I created the tribute, I. I had. I had included a start to finish performance of Pet Sounds because I thought that would be very important. Little did I know back in the 90s when I did that, that in 2000, Brian would take Pet Sounds on the road.
- [17:57]
Ian
Right.
- [17:59]
David Leaf
So if you had wanted to see Pet Sounds perform start to finish, you could have already done that. So on this night there was a start to finish performance of Pet Sounds. It just was. It wasn't as dramatic as it might have been had he not already done it.
- [18:21]
Ian
So everyone in the room saw the Pet Sounds back to front. But on the, on the video broadcast, which like Evan and I watched, that's. I think you only get a couple of the Pet Sounds songs included there.
- [18:33]
David Leaf
You get Brian and Elton doing a duet on. On Wouldn't it be nice, Elton doing God only knows, the great, you know, great duet with Michael Penn and Amy, man. And I just wasn't made for these times and to sloop make the show. You know, it's been a while since I've watched it. So that would have been the other one. It. It was, you know, I was. Because I had created the notion of this thing. I had a lot to say about what would be on the show. And part of what I had insisted upon was that Smile music had to be included. I didn't know that Brian was going to be performing Heroes and Villains, but that came out of nowhere. But if you want, I can tell you the story of how that ended up in the show.
- [19:27]
Ian
Yeah, please. Because we remarked on it when we talked about it, that the Heroes and Villains performance, which I think is the first one that Brian comes out and.
- [19:34]
David Leaf
Does that is Brian's first one.
- [19:36]
Ian
Yeah. Is such a remarkable performance. And I think it's really significant that, like, to my knowledge at least, I don't think he had been performing Heroes and Villains on the tours up until that point. And then between that, you couldn't even.
- [19:48]
David Leaf
Mention the Darian and the guys in the band who would want to talk to him about Smile. There was like, please don't, Brian. Please don't bring that up. It reminds me of a very unhappy time in my life.
- [20:02]
Ian
Wow.
- [20:04]
David Leaf
So. So what happened was at the Christmas before the tribute, so this is, you know, mid. Mid to late December of 2000, we were at a Christmas party at Scott Bennett's house, and just by. I don't. It wasn't by accident, but Brian ended up sitting at the piano, but with his back to the piano. And sitting next to him was. Was my. My late wife, Eva. And he knew how much she loved Christmas. He also wasn't somebody who necessarily liked to go out shopping for presents, but he had been to our. Our apartment for Christmas parties and had seen kind of the devotion she had had to the trees and the decorations. And he said to her, you know, what do you want for Christmas? And I don't know why she said this, but she said for you to play Heroes and Villains. Well, and he said, okay. And he turned around at the piano and he started playing it. Now we were in one room of Scott's house and some of the band members who lived in LA were scattered in other rooms when they heard Brian start to play. They recognized his playing and they came running in because they had, you know, Brian played lots of music in his dressing room, on tour, at the piano, but he had never played Heroes and Villains. And everybody was stunned. And. And when he was finished, I said, brian, you really should do that at the tribute. And he said, okay. It was. It was just. It was just as simple and complicated as that. It was. He knew how much we loved him. He knew how much we loved the music, and he knew we had a band who could do it. So in a. So the band already knew Pet Sounds, which was great. They knew all the hits, which was great. And so they learned Heroes and Villains for the tribute. As. As the late Jeffrey Foskett describes in. In My Smile Book, when Brian opened his mouth with that first note of. Of Heroes, it's It's in his regular voice. It's not in his falsetto voice. So it. It sounds like the record, right? And you see the crowd's reaction, the disbelief on people's face. I mean, Paul Schaefer's in the audience, and he's a big fan. He leans forward and he's like, wow, Brian's doing Heroes and Villains. They knew what a big deal it was that, you know, he wasn't just coming out here and doing hits.
- [22:51]
Ian
And that I think the resurrection of Heroes and Villains in that context, to go along with Surf's up, which he doesn't perform, but the band does, obviously, like, seems to sort of lay the ground. It's almost. To me, I know you can speak to this much better, obviously, because you were there firsthand, but it almost seems like it was like a. Like a backdoor way of kind of breaking the. Breaking the curse around the Smile material. And I guess, you know what. What better way to have done that in the first place than Eva just saying casually at a party, like, play me Heroes and Villains.
- [23:25]
David Leaf
It wasn't my intention that it be that, but when we were talking over what songs would be performed, I insisted that Surfed Up, Surf's up had to be part of the show. And then the question was going to be, okay, who can sing this song? And Ali Gifford, a blesser at our daily meeting, she said. She said these words. She said, let me pray on that. And the next day she came in and she said, I think Vince Gill could do this. Which, okay, you think Vince can do it? Let's see if Vince is available. Vince's wife was pregnant, about to give birth, and when he was asked to do Surfs up, he didn't know the song. He thought it was like Surfing Safari or Surfing usa. He just thought it was one of the surfing songs.
- [24:19]
Ian
I'm sure he's not the first person to have made that mistake. Throughout the history, history of the Beach.
- [24:22]
David Leaf
Boys, his two performances, the Warmth of the sun, which he does solo, and. And Surfs up, which he does with David Crosby and Jimmy Webb on vocals and at the piano, they're. They're just staggering performances. I think you can Google both of them, but what a voice. And I remember at rehearsal when he was singing the Warmth of the Sun, I happened to be standing with his manager, and I said to his manager, his voice is so spectacular, whatever word I used. And he said, as good a singer as he is, he's a better guitar player and as good a guitar player as he is he's a better golfer. And I said, you mean he, he. He's a scratch golfer. He goes, yes, he is. And the nicest man, just the nicest man. And, and he, he brought so much greatness to the stage with, with. With no, with no attitude, with no anything. In fact, Elton John, who, who has been known to be something of a diva, probably in his own words, had said to me when he agreed to do the show and what song do he. He said, I'm going to be easy peasy on this show. And, and he couldn't have, he couldn't have been nicer, more, more helpful when he did. Wouldn't it be Nice with Brian, I said to him on the side of the stage, I said, you got to do me a favor. When Brian has been performing Pet Sounds, he's not used to leaving the stage after, after. Wouldn't it be nice. He's used to doing the whole album. So when you finish, wouldn't it be nice if you could, you know, take the bows and bring them off stage? Well, after they were finished, Elton came off stage laughing because Brian had dashed off stage so fast that when Elton took his bow, we had no shot of the two of them bowing together. So in the editing room, we had a. We had to find a bow somewhere else in, in Brian's performance to, to put there. So, so, you know, it was just. There were. The thing that was so great about it is Brian was sitting there watching all of these people say these things about and see them pay tribute to him. I mean, at rehearsal, when, when the Boys Choir of Harlem was rehearsing our prayer, he was lying on a couch with his eyes closed. Pretty much everybody thought he was asleep, but he was listening to everything. And when they finished their first run through of our prayer, he jumped up and he walked over to the choir and he said, I wrote that. You know, he's just. It's the sweetest guy. He was just so sweet. Was he.
- [27:40]
Ian
I mean, so obviously it sounds like he was present throughout rehearsals and stuff, and certainly he would, would have needed to be because he ended up performing towards the end. And the, you know, the Brian Wilson Band is there throughout the whole performance, I guess. How, how hands on was he throughout the. Like, did you have. Were there like, certain songs that you wanted to include? And Brian said, oh, maybe don't do that one. Or did he have requests about people who should participate or maybe shouldn't participate?
- [28:09]
David Leaf
He didn't have any requests about who should or shouldn't participate. I mean, I was very happy that Wilson Phillips was able to reunite. Sure. For the show. So that brought, you know, his daughters to the stage with him and probably the first time the three of them had ever been on stage together. I, I would, I would guess. But he, so he didn't have any requests regarding artists, regarding songs. I think it's hard for me to recall, but I think we wanted it to be all to be a surprise for him.
- [28:46]
Ian
Wow.
- [28:48]
David Leaf
And, and so many things were a surprise. I, I remember at a rehearsal when Paul Simon came out with just his acoustic guitar and did Surfer Girl and in many ways I thought that was the greatest tribute of the, of the entire night because essentially he wrote a new song around Surfer Girl and that's, that's ping ping honor and tribute to who Brian was as an artist that he felt comfortable doing that and put in the time to do it. It was just staggering when he did that at rehearsal.
- [29:33]
Ian
Yeah, there's a lot of fantastic performances that all do the performances. I guess the Go Go's changing up. The lyric in Surf City is maybe the other most notable change. But yeah, Paul Simon, I think of everyone really kind of takes the song, takes the song that he's performing and, and like you said. Right. You know, writes a whole new song around it is a, a fascinating.
- [29:57]
David Leaf
Well, we, we had to change, they had to change the lyrics to Surf City because it was about, it was a girl group singing.
- [30:03]
Evan
Two girls probably wouldn't, boy wouldn't ask for them.
- [30:06]
Ian
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I guess along these same lines, I mean, I couldn't help but notice, you know, and maybe, maybe they were there and they just weren't mentioned or the camera didn't pan to them or anything. But like, you know, Van Dyke Parks gets several shout outs and cameras pointing at him throughout the night. I didn't see, I don't believe, at least like Al or Bruce or Mike, obviously Dennis and Carl are no longer with us at this point. I guess. Were, were they there? Was there a deliberate decision to make this Brian Wilson as opposed to really bringing in any of the Beach Boys themselves?
- [30:43]
David Leaf
The Beach Boys weren't there. It was a deliberate decision to pay tribute to Brian as a composer, arranger and producer. That was, that was my goal. The Beach Boys, you know, Mike, Mike Allen, Ellen Bruce were on the road, you know, 100, 200 nights a year and getting the applause of the crowd. They didn't need to be told how great they were. They heard it from audiences every single night for decades. It was Brian who, who as I said when the tribute was created, he wasn't touring. So it was, it was. And, and we didn't expect him to be performing when it was originally created. We just expected him to come out and take a bow. So, so when he started touring, I was like, oh, Brian's going to be part of the show. That's great. And, and, but wasn't a deliberate decision to exclude them. They just would have changed the nature of how people saw the show if they were, if they came out on stage at any point, the headlines would have been Beach Boys reunite right for tribute. And, and, and similarly, Sir Paul McCartney, who is probably the, the most media savvy celebrity in the history of the universe, knew that if he had been there physically, it would have been Paul McCartney shines at Brian Wilson Tribute. And he didn't, he didn't want to take any of the attention away from Brian, so he let us use the clip of him inducting Brian into the Songwriters hall of Fame.
- [32:36]
Evan
That's wise, I think.
- [32:37]
Ian
Wise, exactly.
- [32:40]
David Leaf
Well, it was certainly wise and disappointing.
- [32:44]
Evan
Yeah. Unfortunate. But the thought there being, I think, in the right place and turns out.
- [32:52]
Ian
To have a happy ending, as you document in, in the book, when Brian goes over to, I guess a mostly happy ending, I guess the performance that he ends up giving with Paul in the Celebration of the Queen is maybe not executed quite as well as it could have been, but they end up finding their way together after all.
- [33:13]
David Leaf
Well, they also did a landmine benefit together where Brian sang Let It Be and Paul sang God Only Knows. So they've been together a few times. But the Queen's Jubilee deserves an episode all its own. That was a wild, wild day.
- [33:42]
Ian
Is that on video anywhere? Do you know, I've never heard that. Or the real first encounter I ever had with it was reading the book. Is that preserved anywhere?
- [33:52]
David Leaf
It's hard to imagine that nobody taped it in England and posted it on YouTube.
- [34:01]
Ian
Yeah, it's probably on YouTube.
- [34:02]
David Leaf
Somewhere in the back of my head I, I feel like I've seen a DVD of it.
- [34:07]
Evan
Well, what exactly. For those who maybe don't know, what was this event?
- [34:13]
David Leaf
So the Queen's Jubilee was, was the. A concert celebrating the 50th anniversary of the, of Queen Elizabeth II becoming Queen. And there was a concert at, of all places, backstage at Buckingham Palace. They built, they built an entire stage for, for the performers and, and Sir Paul McCartney, of course, was the headliner and Brian was the only American rocker who, who was there. And that happened again. The Phil Ramon, he's so missed. But. But I was in London with Brian on. On the Pet Sounds tour, and. And Phil called me and he said, would you. Do you think you could meet me and a representative of the palace tomorrow morning for tea? And. And I was kind of naive. It's like, okay, I'll meet with a representative of the palace. I don't know what's. What it's about, but okay, if I'm in England, somebody from the palace wants to talk to me. That's kind of cool.
- [35:22]
Ian
You don't say no.
- [35:24]
David Leaf
And. And so we met and. And they said, do you think Brian would want to perform on. On the Queen's Jubilee concert, which was at that point, I don't know, four or five months away. And I said, I don't know why he wouldn't. He loves England. So again, it was like, do you want to do this? Yeah. Very simple, you know, he. He knows when he's being exploited, and he. And he knows when he's being asked. With love.
- [35:59]
Evan
I have found it on YouTube, at least. The performance of God Only Knows with Brian and the Coors. A group called the Coors.
- [36:10]
David Leaf
Yes. Irish group.
- [36:11]
Ian
I think maybe we gotta tack that on and maybe we have a new episode to wedge into the schedule. Evan.
- [36:17]
Evan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:19]
Ian
Who knows how much deeper we can go? I can't help but wonder, David, and maybe you don't remember, which would be perfectly understandable. It has been a quarter century since the event, but were there any songs that you wanted to get in that you weren't able to make happen or artists that you were maybe planning to include at one point who didn't end up making it on?
- [36:43]
David Leaf
There were plenty of people who. We've wanted to include that for scheduling reasons and other reasons weren't available. I would say the. The biggest disappointment was that the Bee Gees weren't able to come because Brian loved, loved, loved the Bee Gees. And it's a harmony group with three brothers.
- [37:05]
Ian
Sure.
- [37:06]
David Leaf
And they worshiped Brian Barry. Barry Gibb in particular, I think. So in terms of. Somewhere in a box, I have a file that. That would show all of that information as to. As to who's. I mean, there were some people who just, you know, weren't appropriate. I mean, I. I don't. I don't. I don't. For example, I don't think we asked, you know, a death metal group if death metal exists. Existed back then.
- [37:46]
Evan
I bet you could have found one, though. I swear, I bet there's one out there who would have been like, Brian Wilson. Well, of course, yeah.
- [37:53]
David Leaf
I thought, you know, you know, Jeff Beck ended up touring with Brian. I think Robert Plant would probably have said yes and. And killed on one of the songs. You know, it had to do. There were all sorts of issues like where are you going to be on March 29, 2001?
- [38:13]
Ian
Right.
- [38:13]
David Leaf
That's the number one issue. Are you available that week to come to New York and do this? Do you want to do it? And, you know, I'm really proud. We should all be proud, Eddie and Chip and, and Brian and Allie and Tisha of the people who made it to the stage.
- [38:36]
Ian
Absolutely.
- [38:36]
David Leaf
I mean, even Ricky Martin, who seems like an odd choice. It's a great, great performer. I mean, just a great, great performer. And you know, he gets the crowd going at the very beginning of the show. He does.
- [38:51]
Ian
And he does indeed. We were marked on that a little bit when we were taping our episode about it that he sort. And it made sense after the fact, reading your chapter about it, that it sounded like he was maybe added at the suggestion of the network as a more popular, well known name at the time.
- [39:08]
Evan
In 2000, 2001, that was Ricky Martin's moment. We were in Ricky Martin's world.
- [39:14]
Ian
That's right. We were all living la vida loca. Yeah, yeah. I want to circle back just to one point you mentioned earlier. I'm just kind of curious about this. And you said, I think talking about the fact that the tribute took place in New York, obviously at Radio City, you said that New York and London were always these cities that. Or have always been these cities that really appreciated Brian and kind of understood him, got him, so to speak, I guess, more than other places for an artist like Brian Wilson, who's so inextricably tied to California, Southern California specifically. I wonder if you could just maybe expound on that a little bit.
- [40:00]
David Leaf
I think in general, the further you got from the Pacific Ocean, the more the myth and the fantasy and the joy of the sun and the sand and the surf resonated. So certainly in England, I don't think there's very much.
- [40:18]
Evan
Yeah, they're like listening these songs about the sun and they're like, what is that? What does that mean?
- [40:27]
David Leaf
So, so, you know, I, I just picked those cities because of the two biggest cities in their respective countries. It's not that Manchester loved, loved Brian too, but, you know, London was where the music weeklies were. And in 66 the music 1966, the music weeklies were going crazy, batshit crazy for Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations. And possibility of smile. You know, there was one. One poll. You know, they had a poll, world's most popular group. And the Beach Boys actually edged out the Beatles in this poll by, you know, a few hundred votes. Now it seems that wouldn't have happened in America in a million zillion years. So. So that was, you know, ground zero for Brian in outside the United States. I'm not sure why New York was the place for Brian, but maybe it had something to do with Pet Sounds, resonated with. With New Yorkers in a way that it didn't say with people in Des Moines. And I'm not picking on people in Des Moines, but, you know, you could pick any city where, where the Beach Boys are still playing, where Mike and his band are still going around and playing the hits. But Head Sounds and then Good Vibrations just had a. Had a resonance in, in, in the, in the Northeast. And New York, New York being the center of. Of the Northeast from a population point of view, it just seemed to be the place. We also have great beaches in New York.
- [42:17]
Ian
Sure. Chaz Palminteri, I think, mentions what, Orchard beach in his. In his little spiel at the top.
- [42:25]
David Leaf
And Chaz is as unlikely a host as one could imagine.
- [42:28]
Ian
Yeah, we were talking about it. It's so funny that. Just like the quintessential. We don't really know too much about Chaz, but just even from his voice, you could say he's just like the quintessential New York guy, you know, and here he is paying tribute to the.
- [42:39]
Evan
Quintessential Californian, which I guess he, you know, as a. A representative of New York, which is where this event took place. There is some sense to that, you know, having it be like. Like we welcome this foreign dignitary with one of our own.
- [42:59]
David Leaf
Well, you know, people grew up on the beach. They had their blankets or towels spread out and they had their transistor radios on and the. The AM stations were playing Beach Boy songs. And it resonated in a way that it just didn't resonate in la. It's like. But we don't need that music. It's not that they did. Beach Boys weren't having to have. Having big hits out here. It's. It's that you could see the beach. You just had to walk a couple of blocks or drive a mile or two and there it was. So you didn't need the fantasy.
- [43:39]
Evan
Imagine LA people being pampered and taking things for granted. It's. It couldn't. Seems unlikely, but maybe, maybe you're onto something.
- [43:49]
David Leaf
Well, you know, we're complaining today because it's in the 60s and the rest of the country is in, you know, a state of frozen shock.
- [44:01]
Ian
Well, I think that, I think we've, we've really gotten, gotten to the bottom of this, this whole moment in Brian's career. I don't know if you have any other, you know, statements or, or stories for us, David, but just, it's just.
- [44:16]
David Leaf
Watching the show, there are so many moments, I mean, you know, Anna, Nancy Wilson just taking Good Vibrations and making it their own. At the end, during, during the All Star encore, the sight of, you know, Billy Joel and others twisting to the music.
- [44:39]
Ian
Oh, that was so great. Him and Elton, like, dancing hand in hand.
- [44:44]
David Leaf
Yeah, it, it's, it just shows how much fun this was. They were probably doing it to. Fun, fun, fun. It really was a, a night that, that I don't think anybody walked out of there and said, boy, that wasn't great. I mean, there'd have to be something wrong with you. You need to go see a psychiatrist. But, you know, it was an amazing team of people who, who put these things together. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm just, I just had the idea and the dream and then it takes this, this kind of tumbling dominoes of coincidences and connections to actually come up with the money to do it. Because it's really expensive, I can imagine, to bring people in from all over the country because they ain't flying coach and, and they're not saying, they're not staying at the Residence Inn. I mean, you know, this is a, it's got to be first class all the way or they're not going to participate. And, and everybody brought their A game. I mean, they really did. And, and I'm as proud of that as just about anything I've ever done. And, you know, I appreciate you, you acknowledging that. The 25th anniversary and we hope to get it back out in the world somehow so that you don't have to like, search for a link on YouTube, but you could actually see it on a streamer.
- [46:25]
Ian
Yeah, I feel like it'd be pretty great. Absolutely. Or at the very least like some sort of remastered album that you could listen to online because the performances themselves are, are fantastic and all, you know, one of a kind. We didn't even say anything about, you know, Billy Joel doing Don't Worry Baby.
- [46:41]
David Leaf
Or Billy was amazing. You know, one of the, one of the people who we didn't mention and was there, of course, was Carly Simon, who who is notorious for her stage fright.
- [46:55]
Ian
Right.
- [46:57]
David Leaf
And several months before the tribute, Brian's lawyer said to me, you know, I represent Carly Simon, and she's a little hurt that she hasn't been asked to, to be there. And, and I said, lee, she's everything we know about her. She's. She has terrible stage fright. And he said, yes, but she wants to, wants to be there. And she said yes immediately. And she was terrific. I mean, it's. And Phil Ramon has the brilliance to somehow put Carly Simon and Jimmy Webb and David Crosby together to do In My Room.
- [47:34]
Ian
That was fantastic.
- [47:35]
Evan
Yeah.
- [47:35]
David Leaf
And Jimmy Webb and, and, and Vince Gill and David Crosby for Surf's Up. I mean, that's, that really is the genius of what a great producer does. He figures out how to make things work in, in. Who would have thought of either of those combinations? The, the one thing that we haven't mentioned because you, you, you asked me, was this a backdoor way to, to get Smile song? What happened after the tribute is Brian started adding these Smile songs to his, his touring repertoire.
- [48:12]
Evan
Yeah.
- [48:13]
David Leaf
Which was obviously important because that led to 2004 and Brian Wilson presents Smile. So, so, you know, this, this gave birth to that. So it's, it's both, you know, a.
- [48:30]
Evan
Great show and it's historically significant really, for, for Brian to that moment. And how those songs, I mean, those songs come off so, so well, especially, I mean, Heroes and Villains, I think is one of the, if not the great highlight of this performance and just how natural it seems and it. I think there's probably a lot of people in that audience who didn't realize exactly how important it is that he's playing that song in that context. But I'm sure plenty of people understood, and most importantly, it seems like Brian understood that something had changed and these songs were being received and being enjoyed in that way.
- [49:20]
David Leaf
The way I described it is, you know, songs from Smile were performed live and the world didn't come to an end. You know, Brian had been told that, you know, this is going to be the end of the Beach Boys. So he had shelved it in part because he did not want to destroy the band. Okay, you tell me you guys can't do this. Okay, Never mind. On the shelf. And so this is their, their, you know, their reemergence into the public eye. And I'm sure there are a lot of people there who had maybe had never even heard Surfs Up.
- [50:02]
Ian
Right?
- [50:03]
Evan
Yeah.
- [50:03]
David Leaf
And, and to hear that was like, I, I very often, you know, will click the YouTube link on Vince Gill. Just, just to hear it again because, because it was so special and, and we all have an image in our heads who were there at rehearsals of Vince walking around the stage, cradling his, his brand new baby and then handing the baby back to his wife while he would rehearse the song.
- [50:34]
Ian
Wow.
- [50:34]
David Leaf
It's just. It was, it was amazing that he didn't cancel. So, so there, you know, there was so many wonderful, wonderful moments. And you know, Billy Joel was upset because, you know, it was a school night for his daughter. And I remember, I remember Eva saying, well, why don't you dedicate this song to her? And. And he looked at her like, who the. Who the f are you to tell me what to. There was just so many moments like that. So it's, it's, it's. Thank you for, for putting the spotlight back on the show. And, and it's hard to believe it's 25 years ago. I, I think my hair was almost entirely black.
- [51:28]
Evan
It's worth noting Billy Joel, of course, did go on to dedicate the song to her in performance.
- [51:34]
David Leaf
He sure did. And they did a, A great version of. Of. Of Don't Worry Baby, that giant organ. I mean, it was just, it's. There are only a couple of moments in the show that I just. You just shake your head at and go, what the heck is that? But it'll. In the end, it all, it all works.
- [52:00]
Ian
Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic package from, from top to bottom. And I think, like we said, a pretty significant step for Brian on his journey towards raising the Titanic. In your words, slash his words as he's described the Smile Project. But that's a story for another day. David, thank you so much for joining us. You're welcome back anytime.
- [52:23]
David Leaf
Thank you, guys. Hope to see you again soon. Stay warm.
- [52:33]
Poet/Reader
The handsome man of the D.
- [52:36]
David Leaf
My God. My God.
- [52:39]
Poet/Reader
Glass aristocracy Back to the upper class. You see the pit and the pendulum. The town and brush the backdrop Are you sleeping? Hung overtaken me Dim chandelier awaken me to a song dissolved in the dawn. Holocaust label the music all is lost for now To a muted trumpeter Swan. Canvas are down and brush the background Are you sleeping? Brother Jones Towers the hour or strike the street Quicksilver moon carriage across the fog to stick step to lamp like siloton the laughs come hard in old lands I. The glass was raised the fine rose the fullness of the wine the dim light too steep Violet. A cheeford beyond belief A broken man to do. Serves up. A tidal way Come about home and join the young in office Bring you gain I heard the word wonderful thing A children's song, A children song have you lived as they play? Their song.
- [56:03]
David Leaf
Is love.
- [56:05]
Poet/Reader
And the children know the way children. Have you. And the children know the way. And the children all the way, my child.