Jokerman Podcast Episode: In Conversation with Dan Riggins
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Host: Jokermen (Evan)
Guest: Dan Riggins of Friendship

Introduction and Background

In this engaging episode of the Jokerman Podcast, host Evan welcomes Dan Riggins from the band Friendship, who is not only a talented songwriter but also a dedicated poet. The conversation kicks off with Evan highlighting Dan's unique approach to songwriting, comparing him to contemporaries like MJ Lenderman and emphasizing his ability to write from everyday life with remarkable granularity.

Evan [00:14]: "I'm really excited to have you on the program because you're also a poet. There's not that many songwriters that I feel like are doing what you're doing."

Dan acknowledges the comparison and discusses his collaborative process, particularly working with Matt on the artwork for his new album, "Caveman Wakes Up."

Dan Riggins [01:07]: "We really love his stuff."

Songwriting and Poetry

The dialogue delves into the distinction between poetry and song lyrics. Dan articulates his perspective on the differences, noting that while both forms share similarities, they require distinct approaches due to their inherent structures.

Dan Riggins [03:23]: "In my brain, they're so different. Poetry nowadays, no one rhymes, you know, or writes in meter or some people do... whereas a song does rhyme and is in meter. You have to fit the syllables."

Evan expands on the rarity of artists who straddle both worlds, commending Dan for his lyrical prowess and the depth it brings to Friendship's music.

Evan [05:10]: "I really like your lyrics and I really like the text of the songs. And that's one of the things about listening to your group Friendship I find really engaging on a deep level."

Influences and Literary Comparisons

Evan draws parallels between Dan's lyrical style and renowned poets, mentioning figures like Blake and Walt Whitman. This comparison sets the stage for discussing various literary influences that shape Dan's songwriting.

Evan [29:50]: "The Beach Boys, I think that, too, is a kind of poetry, like, writing about... like Walt Whitman, that kind of thing."

Dan concurs, likening his introspective and sober lyrical style to that of a "sober Walt Whitman."

Dan Riggins [30:03]: "Yes, sober Walt Whitman."

Deep Dive into Specific Songs

Caveman Wakes Up

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Dan's latest album, "Caveman Wakes Up." Dan explains the artistic evolution from their previous work, "Love the Stranger," aiming for a more experimental and darker tone in the new record.

Dan Riggins [05:41]: "We wanted maybe to get a little weirder or to experiment with certain things more and to kind of fill out some darker colors."

Evan observes the granular detail in Dan's songwriting, citing the opening lines and the deliberate use of mundane elements imbued with symbolic meaning.

Evan [07:00]: "The record really kind of sticks to its guns on that level, but at the same time, it's very effectively dispersed... using them as hinge points."

Dan responds by emphasizing the intentionality behind his detailed lyrics, rejecting the notion that he merely observes the mundane without deeper significance.

Dan Riggins [09:52]: "I'm not putting in little details just to add color. There's usually like a Reason why it's that thing instead of another thing."

Tree of Heaven

The discussion shifts to "Tree of Heaven," a song inspired by a persistent tree in West Philadelphia. Dan elaborates on how this specific tree symbolizes his connection to the city and incorporates elements of his surroundings into his music.

Dan Riggins [25:27]: "Tree Heaven is kind of a weed and it... John, our bassist, he had a big, gross Tree of Heaven coming out of... in West Philly."

Evan appreciates the poetic evocation in the song's title, interpreting it as a landscape painting that holds deeper significance.

Evan [24:49]: "Imbuing that tree with a lot of significance is just like, the fact that this song is here, that it feels like the song sort of built around a single tree."

Love Vape

Another intriguing track discussed is "Love Vape," which originated from a long poem Dan wrote about West Philadelphia. The song captures the essence of urban life and personal connections within the community.

Dan Riggins [38:02]: "I wrote a long poem that was trying to be songy style that was called the Ballad of Love Vape... it's about hanging out, walking around here."

Life in Philadelphia

Dan shares his affection for Philadelphia, despite not being a native. He reflects on the city's affordability, community spirit, and personal connections that have kept him rooted there for over a decade.

Dan Riggins [22:58]: "I've loved it here... I feel so indebted to the city, and I feel so much love for it."

Evan and Dan discuss the cultural aspects of living in Philly, including the unique flora like the Tree of Heaven and the vibrant local scene.

Dan Riggins [24:23]: "Most other Philly neighborhoods are pretty sparse for trees. I go up to Maine a lot. My family's up there."

Artistic Collaboration and Process

The conversation highlights Friendship's collaborative approach to creating music. Dan describes how songs evolve through group input, often starting with his initial ideas and refining them collectively.

Dan Riggins [44:34]: "With this album, I think... layered contribution. Sometimes I bring unfinished songs and we build them together."

Evan appreciates the metaphorical discussions the band engages in to shape their sound, likening it to guiding a creative vision rather than strictly technical tweaks.

Dan Riggins [41:02]: "It gives us all something. The pressure's off immediately. We got a good arrangement that was very gentle and beautiful."

The Impact of COVID-19

Evan and Dan reflect on how the COVID-19 pandemic influenced their creative processes. For Dan, the pandemic provided the impetus to pursue an MFA in poetry, which later contributed to his published work.

Dan Riggins [47:06]: "I wrote almost all of my poetry book during the MFA program."

They also discuss how the pandemic led to the creation of their record label, Run Dear Life Records, as a means to support their artistic endeavors during a time of uncertainty.

Dan Riggins [49:02]: "Mike lost his job... Making a record label work. That label got totally."

Dan's MFA and Poetry Book

Dan recounts his experience pursuing a Master of Fine Arts in Poetry, highlighting the benefits of structured learning and community with other writers. He mentions the publication of his poetry book through his friend's record label.

Dan Riggins [46:05]: "Almost all of it is in the book I wrote during the program. So we did it with my buds, John and Mike in the band Run Dear Life Records."

He appreciates the workshops and feedback that honed his poetic skills, enhancing his lyrical abilities in music.

Dan Riggins [47:28]: "I learned how to read my own work better, read other poems better."

Reflections and Future Plans

As the conversation wraps up, Dan shares upcoming plans for Friendship, including tour dates and the potential to reach new audiences. He emphasizes his commitment to the band's growth and the importance of live performances.

Dan Riggins [55:12]: "Friendship's going on tour at the end of June and July... Maybe that'll get announced soon."

Evan offers parting thoughts, commending the depth and layered meanings in Friendship's latest album, and encouraging listeners to explore their music.

Evan [54:17]: "I think it's a really rewarding record to listen to. Three stars out of three."

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a light-hearted exchange and a brief musical outro, leaving listeners with a sense of connection to Dan Riggins' artistic journey and Friendship's evolving sound.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Evan [00:14]: "I'm really excited to have you on the program because you're also a poet."
• Dan Riggins [03:23]: "In my brain, they're so different. Poetry nowadays, no one rhymes..."
• Evan [07:00]: "Using them as hinge points."
• Dan Riggins [09:52]: "There's usually like a Reason why it's that thing instead of another thing."
• Evan [24:49]: "Imbuing that tree with a lot of significance..."
• Dan Riggins [44:34]: "We build them together."
• Evan [54:17]: "Three stars out of three."

This detailed summary encapsulates the rich discussions between Evan and Dan Riggins, offering insights into Dan's creative process, influences, and the intricate layers of Friendship's music. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to their work, this episode provides a comprehensive look into the mind of a modern poet and songwriter navigating the complexities of art and life in Philadelphia.