In Conversation: DAVE DEPPER

Summary

JOKERMEN Podcast — In Conversation: DAVE DEPPER
Episode Released: June 8, 2026
Guest: Dave Depper (Death Cab for Cutie guitarist)
Host: Ian

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Episode Overview

This episode of Jokermen features an in-depth conversation with Dave Depper, guitarist of Death Cab for Cutie, on the day of the release of their new album, I Built You a Tower. The conversation covers the creative process behind the album, Depper's journey from fan to band member, reflections on the band's evolution, label moves, band dynamics, and highlights from attending the opening night of Bob Dylan’s “Long Hot Summer” 2026 tour. It’s an essential listen for fans of indie rock, Death Cab, and insight into the working life of a band with serious longevity.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Death Cab for Cutie’s New Album: I Built You a Tower

• Release Context & History

  • The 11th album, marking nearly 30 years as a band.
  • First release on Anti- Records, signaling a move away from Atlantic.
  • "It's my third album with the guys since I joined them 12 years ago, which feels insane to say. It's our second record with John Congleton behind the helm and I think it's pretty damn good, if I do say so myself." (Dave, 04:45)

• Creative Process & Studio Approach

  • Recorded in just over three weeks with John Congleton producing.
  • A shift towards a lean, live band feel: minimal overdubbing, live tracking, limited takes.
  • "The ethos this time around was very much like, what are the five parts that these five sets of hands will be playing live?...by about dinner time each day, we would have a pretty completely tracked song with scratch vocals on it." (Dave, 11:05–11:55)
  • 90 demos considered; rock-forward selections rose to the top.

• Intentional Evolution

  • The band deliberately avoided the trope of “aging rock band makes mellow, reflective record.”
  • “All of us and especially Ben are just not interested in that narrative of aging rock band goes gracefully into that good night with the acoustic, thoughtful string section sort of record.” (Dave, 06:54)

• Effect of Touring Schedule

  • Quick recording turnaround post-anniversary tour (Transatlanticism/Postal Service and Plans), catching the band in peak “rock shape.”
  • “We all still had our kind of like muscle memory and we were all in good rock shape and we just hit the studio running with the goal of rocking.” (Dave, 07:59)

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2. Dave Depper’s Path to and Role in the Band

• Joining Death Cab after Chris Walla

  • Initial connection through mutual friends and running with Ben Gibbard.
  • Stepped up after Chris Walla’s departure, transitioning from fan, to live “hired gun”, to official member.
  • Notable moment: "You know, I hate to be that guy, but I'd love to be considered. If the hat is open, I'd like my name to be in it." (Dave, 16:10)

• Creative Integration and Confidence

  • Early feelings of tentativeness and imposter syndrome during the making of Thank You for Today.
  • The pandemic led to the band’s “exquisite corpse” remote songwriting experiment, breaking down creative barriers and deepening collaboration.
  • "I just wasn't precious about anything... It just felt so liberating." (Dave, 23:27)
  • Now feels fully “firing on all cylinders,” with mutual trust and artistic freedom.

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3. Band Longevity & Artistic Vitality

• Resisting Nostalgia Act Status

  • Band’s desire to stay creatively vital, rather than lean on being an anniversary-tour act.
  • Ben Gibbard highlighted as a “restless” artist, “addicted to making good art.”
  • “There is maybe something a little hollow…if that's all you are.” (Ian, 25:39)

• Label Shift: From Atlantic to Anti-

  • Decision to move to Anti- stemming from desire for a more peer-driven and artist-friendly roster.
  • "Anti is like killing it these days... a nice bit of synchronicity that we joined up with them..." (Dave, 29:55)
  • Departure from Atlantic motivated by layoffs, shifting priorities, and a sense that Atlantic no longer had real buy-in for Death Cab’s legacy-minded art.
  • “Death Cab is sort of self-sustaining.” (Dave, 33:15)

• Surviving the Waves of Indie Rock

  • Reflection on how innumerable bands of their generation now trade only on nostalgia or have faded entirely, while Death Cab remains vital.
  • “I sometimes feel like we are...on these various, like, small mountain peaks or little hills and the ocean has been rising and we are somehow still above the rising waters...” (Dave, 34:25)

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4. Track-by-Track Album Highlights

• "Trap Door"

  • Dave's favorite on the album, written musically by Zach Rae with standout synth textures and warm guitar.
  • “It just hits all of the Gabardian lyrical notes one would ever hope for. It’s the Platonic ideal of what a Zach Ray composed song is like.” (Dave, 36:17)
  • Ben Gibbard plays big piano chords in the song's finale.

• "How Heavenly Estate"

  • The song Dave is “most proud of,” co-written with bassist Nick and Ben, starting from an “gonzo” demo during the weekly songwriting round robin.
  • “It was almost too gonzo sounding...and Ben came up with...an unbelievable track…that song sounds like Godzilla stomping all over Tokyo to me, musically.” (Dave, 38:36)
  • Lyrically addresses the death of a friend.

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5. Death Cab for Cutie: Internal Culture and Dynamics

• Band as “Cousins, Friends, Brothers”
  • Dave and Zach Rae were officially adopted into the band after initially being semi-permanent players.
  • Full creative partnership now thriving (“airtight at this point”).
• Namedrops & Band Humor
  • Dave’s cat “Dr. Wu” named after Steely Dan track.
  • Self-deprecating jokes about modern music promo and "gabardian" (referring to Ben Gibbard’s work ethic) now being part of indie lingo.

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6. Live Music & Fan Experiences

• Festival Moments

  • Recalling highlights from the “Just Like Heaven” festival, the back-to-back Death Cab and Postal Service sets, and being introduced to Phoenix by Jenny Lewis.

• Beach Boys Anecdote

  • Dave recounts meeting Mike Love and Al Jardine at Bonnaroo’s catering tent (“I got a picture with Mike Love, who was very nice, actually, and I went up to Little Al...and he said ‘with my food?’” (41:54))

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7. Bob Dylan, Deep Dives, and the Jokerman Connection

• Depper’s Field Report: Bob Dylan “Long Hot Summer” Tour Kickoff

  • Attended opening night in Troutdale, OR (June 4, 2026).
  • Setlist included deep cuts & four covers, notably the first ever performance of a 1967 Basement Tapes outtake, “Baby, Won’t You Be My Baby?” after a 59-year gap.
  • “His singing was astonishingly good. It was like Shadows in the Night quality control over the croon.” (Dave, 47:09)
  • Performance led confidently by Dylan’s piano playing, with band tightly following his every move.
  • “It just seemed like a very confident and arranged performance...very intentional.” (Dave, 52:39)
  • The crowd, mostly boomers, was divided—captivated by familiar tunes, restless during the deeper cuts.
  • “Everyone is queued up to say, ‘everybody must get stoned,’ like, on rhythm. And he absolutely refuses to sing it in the rhythm that is original for the song. It was absolutely hilarious to me.” (Dave, 55:41)
  • Bob Dylan closed with “Crossing the Rubicon,” then left after his customary bow in his signature white rain slicker, despite the summer night.

• Death Cab & Dylan: Influence and Fandom

  • Ben Gibbard and Dave are the biggest Dylan fans in the band; Ben’s focus is on pre-1970 Dylan.
  • “I have been toying with the idea of a post-76 super curated all the dank nugs playlist for Ben.” (Dave, 58:46)
  • Considering a Dylan–Death Cab–Daniel Lanois cross-pollination in the future, given Zach Rae’s work with Lanois.

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Notable Quotes

• “All of us and especially Ben are just not interested in that narrative of aging rock band goes gracefully into that good night with the acoustic, thoughtful string section sort of record.” (Dave, 06:54)
• “I'm just part of this thing. I'm confident that I'm part of this thing whether I'm playing this moment or not. And it just felt so liberating.” (Dave, 23:27)
• "Death Cab is sort of self-sustaining. We're gonna, you know, knock on wood, land on our feet, wherever we ended up. And so, you know, what is the goal? ... To be paired with like minded people that we consider peers..." (Dave, 33:15)
• "His singing was astonishingly good. It was like Shadows in the Night quality control over the croon." (Dave, 47:09)
• "Everyone is queued up to say, 'everybody must get stoned,' like, on rhythm. And he absolutely refuses to sing it in the rhythm that is original for the song. It was absolutely hilarious to me." (Dave, 55:41)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:10] — Dave Depper Joins the Conversation
• [04:38] — Discussing I Built You a Tower
• [08:31] — Recording Process & John Congleton’s Approach
• [13:41] — Dave’s Path to Joining Death Cab for Cutie
• [21:40] — Creative Integration, Remote Songwriting During Pandemic
• [26:12] — On Not Becoming an “Anniversary Tour” Band
• [29:27] — Move from Atlantic to Anti- Records
• [34:25] — Band Survival Amid Industry Changes
• [36:00] — Favorite Tracks: “Trap Door,” “How Heavenly Estate”
• [43:12] — Playing Heavy Songs Live
• [44:11] — Bob Dylan Tour Recap — First Basement Tapes Performance
• [53:03] — Dylan’s 2026 Show: Crowd Reaction & Setlist Analysis
• [57:44] — Discussing Dylan Fandom in Death Cab & in-band Perspectives
• [61:08] — Wrap-up: Tour/Album Plugs & Farewell

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Memorable Moments

• Dave’s story about shooting his shot to join Death Cab while on a run with Ben Gibbard, then actually being invited to replace Chris Walla.
• Anecdote about meeting the Beach Boys’ Mike Love and Al Jardine in the Bonnaroo catering tent: Al’s deadpan “with my food?” response.
• Detailed rundown of Bob Dylan’s 2026 “Long Hot Summer” tour, especially the “I can spot the twists and turns of Bob's reinterpretations” line as a nod to deep-dive fan culture.
• Reflections on the dangers of becoming a nostalgia act, and how Death Cab has managed to “not only nod to the energy of old Death Cab, but kind of point in a new direction.”

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation remains passionate, self-effacing, and insightful, full of humor, band in-jokes (“Gabardian work ethic”), and respect for artistic craft. Dave balances candid, often funny stories with thoughtful reflection on career, creativity, legacy, and what it means to truly be part of a long-running band.

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Summary

This episode stands out as an open and generous conversation about the evolution of a beloved indie band, creative renewal, and the experience of living both as a fan and as a working musician. Perfect for anyone interested in the inner workings of a great band still refusing to coast, with side helpings of Bob Dylan deep talk, indie history, and gentle roasts of the state of rock in 2026.

Transcript

[Ian]

Jokerman podcast is brought to you by Distrokid and their new direct to fan tool. Allowing any artist to sell merch. Distrokid Direct allows artists to create a merch store in minutes without any upfront costs or any technical skills or know how they'll take care of all the logistics and the nitty gritty. And as with distribution through Distrokid, they never take a cut of the proceeds. You, the artist, keep 100% of your earnings. Once again, that's Distrokid Direct. Open a store [e-mail] direct. Welcome back to Jokerman In Conversation. I'm Ian, keeping the interview theme rolling. This week alongside our Patreon exclusive Death Grips series, we got Dave Depper in in the house, better known as guitarist in Death Cab for Cutie, a band who really needs no introduction. If you've been at all tuned in to the scene of alternative indie music over the last, oh, two, three decades, at this point you're going to be familiar with some of Death Cab's tunes. They have just returned with a brand new record, fantastic new record, kick ass, hard rocking new record. To be quite honest, I built you a tower on Anti Records going independent indie once again after a couple releases on Atlantic Records. Dave, of course, stepped into the band about 10, 12 years ago following the departure of founding member Chris Walla. We get into a little bit of the background behind his entry into Death Cab as well as the pretty inspiring course their career has taken over the last however long. Dave, it should be mentioned, is also a bit of a Jokerman listener himself. So he's kind of clued in, kind of tapped in to a lot of the lingo, a lot of the silly nonsense that we get into here. And he was also, and some of you who subscribe to Ray Padgett's indispensable substack flagging down the Devil E's. You're gonna be well aware of this already. Dave was at the tour, kickoff of the Long Hot summer Bob Dylan 2026 tour there in beautiful Troutdale, Oregon just last week. So you know, we had to run that down. Even got a surprise appearance from a couple of our favorite Beach Boys. One of our favorite Beach Boys, at least, little Al Jardine, another one of our, maybe not quite as fondly remembered Beach Boys. Very fun episode, very good record. Here to tell you all about it

[Poetry Reader]

is Dave in his search to the end of the circle. He kept arriving back at the start, having fell every hurdle. She tried to make him feel better. He didn't want to feel better Cause he was living for the wandering his heart like a dead letter Gladwin was punching the flowers Ruminating like a fatalist

[Ian]

for hours Dave Depper.

[Dave Depper]

Welcome to Jokerman at long last. Good to be here. Good to.

[Ian]

Good to have you. Seriously. I feel like we, you know, we're pals online through the comments on Instagram and so on. I've been in the audience at Death Cab shows also and seen you up there rocking out, so it's great to sit down and just get to rap a little bit here.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, likewise. What shows did you catch?

[Ian]

I was at the. What's the aging hipster festival in Los Angeles called?

[Dave Depper]

Just like Heaven.

[Ian]

Just Like Heaven, exactly where you did the. It was the Death Cab transatlanticism set and. And it was the Postal Service set.

[Dave Depper]

Oh, man. Yeah. That was a very epic evening for all involved.

[Ian]

That was a great back to back experience. I love the drama obviously of the all dark outfits and then the all white outfits. Jenny up there, just a vision with the rest of the Postal Service crew.

[Dave Depper]

Our queen. Yeah, it was great. She introduced me to Phoenix backstage. It was an epic evening.

[Ian]

Wow, that's. Boy, that's just. That's another hallmark of a bygone era in some ways. But we're not here to talk about bygone eras because you and the crew, Death Cab for Cutie are back literally today as we're speaking with new record I built you a tower. What's the pitch on this one?

[Dave Depper]

It's the 11th album by a band that's been around for almost 30 years.

[Ian]

An institution, I think it's fair to say at this point.

[Dave Depper]

I suppose so, yeah. It's my third album with the guys since I joined them 12 years ago, which feels insane to say. It's our second record with John Congleton behind the helm and I think it's pretty damn good, if I do say so myself.

[Ian]

I would tend to agree. I've been listening for a couple weeks at this point. We had a little back and forth. Just took some time to actually get the promo stream in my email inbox. This is. That's just how the sausage is made, folks.

[Dave Depper]

The sausage is made. The suits have their ways.

[Ian]

The promo streams kill me sometimes, I gotta be honest. They just like especially. Cause I still listen to music the old fashioned way. The old fashioned way. I listen to digital music the old fashioned way. Where I like a file, I like an MP3 file on my hard drive that I can just like. And the streams, you can rarely download them. And Then sometimes you gotta like download an app and sign in and it's just. It's a mess. But we figured it out.

[Dave Depper]

I think these guys all have a hangover from like Pirate Bay days when like pre streaming when like a leak would like completely tank your sales or whatever and there's no sales anymore.

[Ian]

Who are we kidding?

[Dave Depper]

Who are we kidding? People will forget about this record in six days when whatever comes out next week.

[Ian]

Oh, that's not true. I think this is going to. I mean, it's hitting right here in the middle of the year. I was just talking to Steve the other day on off mic when we were about to record Never Running Stories. You know, we're in mid year territory, you know, the best albums of 2026 so far. And he and I were both remarking and agreeing. You know, it seems like sort of a. Sort of a down year for rock music so far at least compared to like 24 and 25, which were pretty high powered all the way throughout. But I feel like this one is going. Is like it's not gonna make these lists because it's coming out, you know, by the time these lists have all been written and they're about to be published. But I think, I think this is gonna be pretty, pretty high up there at the end. I was amazed, honestly, the first couple times I listened to it much. It rocks, to be honest, which I think that rocks.

[Dave Depper]

We agree. It rocks. Yeah. I think all of us and especially Ben are just not interested in that narrative of aging rock band goes gracefully into that good night with the acoustic, thoughtful string section sort of record, I think. Yeah. And coming straight off of the heels of that anniversary tour. This was like the quickest turnaround between like a touring cycle and actually hitting the studio that we've ever had. I think it was like three weeks in between the last like Transatlanticism postal service date and like getting in there with John and so. Oh, I gotta correct myself. We did this like mini plans anniversary tour. There's so many anniversary tours, I'm losing track of them. Sure.

[Ian]

Oh yeah, the plans was like that was not quite as much of a blowout as the Transatlanticism.

[Dave Depper]

Not at all. Yeah. And that was by design. We were like, we cannot just be a full time anniversary, a band tour. That's not a good look. But we did decide we wanted to do something to commemorate it. So we did in three cities. But there was like a three week turnaround. And so we all still had our kind of like muscle memory and we were all in good rock Shape and we just hit the studio running with the goal of rocking.

[Ian]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that makes perfect sense because it sounds very. I mean, sounds tight. Everyone's in the pocket and, you know, there's variety across the album, certainly, but it really does kind of like, you know, kick you in the teeth from the beginning and doesn't really let up all the way throughout. Was that part of the like, I don't know, concept behind it or was that sort of just the way that it worked out?

[Dave Depper]

It just sort of worked out that way. You know, we there. There was literally, I'm not exaggerating, there were 90 demos involved with making this record.

[Ian]

Jesus.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, the Gabardian work ethic.

[Ian]

Yeah, I've heard the Gabard. The term Gabardian thrown around on a couple interviews and in write ups recently. I like that that's phrase part of the lingo now.

[Dave Depper]

It's good. It's good. And you know, as a band and with Congleton, we just sort of like self selected and the Cream rose to the top and it tended to be the rock songs and it wasn't that like we were consciously avoiding the acoustic ones. I just think that Ben's writing and our mindsets were just sort of in that vein. Probably because of touring so much in the last couple of years, just, you know, playing.

[Ian]

Playing rock shows night in, night out. Makes sense that you're gonna make a rock album. Was it like, you know, in terms of the actual recording, are we talking like 21st century Bob Dylan shit, where it's just like everyone get in the room and then just roll the tapes and whatever comes out comes? I'm guessing. I feel like Ben's maybe a bit more of a perfectionist than that.

[Dave Depper]

It was closer to 21st century Dylan than maybe two albums ago. So, like, the first album I did with the band thank youk for Today was a very arduous process that took like three and a half months. And it was the classic like, you know, 30 drum takes, 30 bass takes, glue it all together in Pro Tools kind of thing. And sure, we. We sort of after that, decided we never wanted to do it that way again. And the last record, Asphalt Meadows, was. Was a reaction against that and went pretty fast, but this time was epically faster. We did the whole thing in three and a half weeks. We basically did a song every day in the morning. We'd get there. Some songs had more of a thought through demo than others, but we'd get there and we'd basically work on the arrangement for Two or three hours, basically till lunchtime. Take lunch. And then Congleton would be like, all right, let's track it. And we'd do like four or five takes, tops. And that would kind of be it. There were. There were. There was maybe two songs where that was not how it went. And John would be like, I think we got it. I mean, it was kind of like the songs that we attempted to do more takes on. It was almost like that classic like. Like a Rolling Stone session where he gets it on take four or whatever, but keeps going, Keeps going for it. Yeah, John Congleton is like allergic to anything like that. He is. He's. He's very. A thing. He said a lot would be like, you can. You can do it again. But I think we got it, man. And. And that would be that. And a lot of it would be live. The rhythm section would often be live. And then the, like, top line melodic team of myself and Ben and Zach would maybe go in and sort of refine our parts or overdub something here and there. But there was very little layering going on. It was. It was a very. The ethos this time around was very much like, what are the five parts that these five sets of hands will be playing live? We want to have, like, minimal stuff on tracks. We want. People do not have to be like, tap dancing on their pedal boards too much. And by about dinner time each day, we would have a pretty completely tracked song with scratch vocals on it. And John would not let us go back and listen to it the next day. His whole thing was we were going to basically track this entire album and you're not going to listen to anything you've done until like two weeks into it. And so we tracked about 15 songs and we had this one day where we listened back to everything. We were like, holy shit. Like, this is crazy what we've recorded. And it was. And it was like there were just things that I didn't recall playing at all. And it was just there. And there are a couple songs that need a little tune ups here and there. Maybe like, the drums had to be redone in a couple, but we. Ben tracked his vocals in like two weekends and a couple mornings. And then we spent three days overdubbing some sparkly bits and that was that. It was. We were kind of. At the end, we were like, this doesn't necessarily feel right. Is this done? We've never done this so fast. And Jon's like, you got it. It's cool. And that was that, man.

[Ian]

I guess that's why you hire a guy like John Congleton, right? For him to just be there and tell you, you know. No, don't worry about it. It's good.

[Dave Depper]

The man's a ninja. Yeah.

[Ian]

Geez. What is your. I'm curious, like, what is your, like, working relationship with Ben? You know, because obviously, you know, you came into the band not post peak, I would say, but post like, you know, it was a known quantity by the time you arrived. And obviously, you know, on the heels of, like, Chris Walla's departure, I'm almost kind of fascinated by that concept. You think of like a Ron Wood, for instance, you know, in the Stones, who shows up, you know, like, now he is one of the Rolling Stones along with, you know, like, Mick and Keith. But, you know, he was not, not there for the period of time when the Rolling Stones became the Rolling Stones. In all that seems like sort of a unique perspective or experience in many rock bands. Can you just speak to that a little bit?

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, I mean, many people are calling me the Ron Wood of Death Cab. Certainly it's been an interesting journey. I mean, I was a fan of Death Cab. I loved Transatlanticism and Plans and Narrow Stairs and then kind of like drifted away from them a little bit. But, yeah, they were a very important band to me and I just kind of became friends with Ben sort of extracurricularly, actually. This is an interesting point. I am wondering if I'm the only Jokerman guest who's been preceded in appearance by an ex wife of his.

[Ian]

Ooh, maybe. And I hate to say it, but the person you're referring to is not springing to mind here.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, yeah. You haven't done your Appa research.

[Ian]

Not that much.

[Dave Depper]

Joan LeMay, illustrator of Quantum criminals.

[Ian]

Oh, of course.

[Dave Depper]

Yes. Wow.

[Ian]

Gee.

[Dave Depper]

Yes. Joan and I. Joan dated Ben for a long time in like the mid aughts.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Dave Depper]

They split up and she and I got together for a few years. Did a crazy thing where we got married like a month after meeting each other. That's a whole topic for a whole different podcast. We're still dear friends, but that's the

[Ian]

topic of this podcast now.

[Dave Depper]

Joan's an amazing person and, yeah, I got friendly with Ben through her.

[Ian]

Wow.

[Dave Depper]

And small world. I know. Absolutely. Small world. We. The cat we got together is now 17 years old. Dr. Wu, still alive.

[Ian]

Wow.

[Dave Depper]

A fine Steely Dan track. Dr.

[Ian]

Woo. That's fantastic.

[Poetry Reader]

Are you with me, Dr. Wu?

[Dave Depper]

Where was I going with this? Basically, I met Ben and we started running together like, he's now like, A ultra marathon. Like crazy man runner. I just run non ultra marathons.

[Ian]

Just non. Just 26.2s.

[Dave Depper]

That's. Yeah, that's where I top it off. And they were making the Kintsugi record, which is the last record they did with Chris. And yeah, I was on a run with him and he was just sort of talking about how it was all going. And he mentioned, yeah, we're really starting to think seriously about adding, like, a fifth live member because, like, the studio recordings are getting a bit layered, a bit more complicated. We need, like, another set of hands. And yeah, just trying to think about that. Like, do you know anyone that's like, good at that kind of thing? And at that moment I was like, I gotta shoot my shot. And so I said, well, you know, I hate to be that guy, but I'd love to be considered. If the hat is open, I'd like my name to be in it.

[Ian]

Sure.

[Dave Depper]

And he sort of said, okay, okay. And in that instant I was like, oh, God, like, what did I just do? Made it all weird. And some time went by, and about six months later, I was in Los Angeles playing with somebody else and hit him up on socials, seeing that they were recording. And I was like, yeah, you want to get dinner? You want to come to the show? I'm going to. And he said, yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to chat about something with you, in fact. And I said, okay. And we, we. We went to dinner and he said, so Chris quit the band this week. And I said, oh, my God, that's crazy. And he's like, yeah, it's kind of an interesting situation. He wants to finish making the record with us, but as soon as it's done, he. He doesn't want to tour. And then he wants to be. He wants to be done. And I was like, gosh, that's. That's crazy. You know, what are you going to do? Like, not at all thinking that he was going to ask me the next question, which was. And he said, well, that's kind of why I wanted to get together with you. I know you mentioned you. You were interested in being like a multi instrumentalist, but how would you like to be the main guitar player in the band?

[Ian]

Wow.

[Dave Depper]

I said, jesus, sure. Great. Yeah. Yeah. A thousand times, yes. So that led to the next period of, of. Of being in the band where I was sort of alive. Hired Gun to specifically play Chris's parts from the Kintsugi record and the back catalog stuff. And at the same time, Zach Ray joined as like the fifth multi instrumentalist kind of member that he initially mentioned. Spent a couple years doing that. And then the other three guys in the band said, you know, we don't really want to have this weird halfway relationship with you guys. Let's put a ring on it. Let's make it official, let's make, let's just do it. And so we said, sure. And that's how it's been ever since. So amazing. Yeah, beautiful.

[Ian]

So you were adopted, you and Zach were adopted into the family as, as official, you know, brothers, I guess, brother, you know, cousins, friends and brothers.

[Dave Depper]

Cousins, friends and brothers. But, but it did lead to an interesting time. So, so kind of right after that we made that thank you for Today record, which was a very fraught experience for me because, you know, I joining the band initially had been very intimidating, but I was like, okay, I can do this. And there's guitar parts that have been laid out for me to play and I'm confident as a live guitar player and had a lot of fun playing Kintsugi songs all over the world. But all of a sudden I was plopped into a creative environment at a scale that I had never engaged with. Like there was like this Grammy winning famous producer Rich Costi producing the record and like a, a budget from Atlantic Records. And all of a sudden I'm an, theoretically an equal creative partner. But seriously, am I going to tell Ben Gibbert this song isn't good? Or like, tell him I, I think you should change that guitar part or something. And meanwhile, my counterpart Zach Ray, who joined at the same time is like this unbelievably successful LA session pro guy that has worked with everyone, including the producer of the record that we were making at the time. And the guys had made their previous record with that producer as well. And so I was kind of the odd man out and just sort of trying to find my way like absolutely thrown into the deep end of this pool and really kind of having a crisis of confidence every day. And it was, it was a tough record for me to make. And I listened back to it and I hear sort of attentiveness, tentativeness and conservativeness in my playing and a bit of a deferential kind of, kind of attitude, which, which is fine. And, and I think that's a good record. I don't think it's anyone's favorite Death Cab record, but it, it was, it was the product of a, a time of real uncertainty in the band. What, what the band would sound like without Chris, how Zach and I Fit into the bigger picture, et cetera. But what really kind of changed things around, oddly, was the Pandemic, because we toured thank youk for Today. Like right up until the Pandemic. Like, I think we stopped playing shows in like February 2020. And all of. And we'd had like plans to do more. And all of a sudden it was like completely shut down. And Ben had this idea of collaborating remotely, like kind of everyone else, but he was like, I want to try a new, an entirely new approach to writing in this band where I'll still write some demos and you guys, you know, write parts to it or whatever, like we've done in the past. But I want to start a new thing where every single week a different band member starts a song. And there's kind of a round robin, exquisite corpse approach where every band member gets the song on a different day of the week and can like erase whatever they want, add whatever they want, change the key, pitch it up, do whatever, and then I will get it on one of the days I'll write lyrics and a melody to it and at the end of the week, the person that has it on Friday mixes the song. And we did this for like 50 weeks in a row during 2020, 2021.

[Ian]

Jesus.

[Dave Depper]

It was wild. I mean, and some of the songs are like the worst things you've ever heard in your life.

[Ian]

This sounds like a great future bootleg series release to me.

[Dave Depper]

Yes, absolutely. And. And Asphalt Meadows ended up being like half that and, and half Ben's. Ben's songs. But I found that sort of in a. In an environment where I was not in a multi million dollar recording studio with a giant clock over my head and like a Grammy winning producer like staring at me that I was able to. I mean, I was in, in this room that you're looking at now the whole time, all day long. With the time to kind of craft a part that felt really authentic to me and that served the song. I could arrange things. I felt comfortable. Like, I think Ben's guitar part isn't that good in this chorus, or it doesn't fit here or maybe I'll move it to the bridge. And I just was able to kind of do those things. And by the time we hit the studio with Congleton the first time with all of these like hyper arranged, remote demos, I felt very confident and just like ready to express myself. And then the rest of us. Zach had worked with Congleton before, but it was a totally new relationship to the rest of us. And he kind of met Us where we were at. And I just kind of went in with this much more relaxed attitude about my own playing and about my own self worth as a musician and my place in the band and just had a joyful time making that record. And this, this record was that like times 10. I just walked in. I had a great relationship with John. I had a great sense of my, my own worth and my own abilities in the band. Like, I just wasn't precious about anything. Like when we were making thank you for today, I'd see like, okay, we're working on this song tomorrow. I need to stay up like half the night and come up with like seven different possible approaches so that like when it gets on me, I'm just gonna have the perfect thing. And, and like I, I would often go into the studio and those seven, none of those things would work. And people will ask, well, what else you got? And I'd kind of just be like, ah. And sort of shrink down. And this time I was like, I don't know. I just didn't mind being rejected. I didn't mind like even if I like barely played on half the song, it just was like, I'm just part of this thing. I'm confident that I'm part of this thing whether I'm playing this moment or not. And it's. It just felt so liberating. And that's, I guess, I don't know. That was a very long winded answer to your question. What is my creative relationship? I'm one of five people in this band that collaborate together with one primary writer. But my own writing voice is welcome and encouraged. When it fits.

[Ian]

Amazing. I mean, in shortest possible terms, it sounds like you just, you are a member of the band and you maybe more importantly feel like just, you know, a member of the band instead of just this person who has been hired by the band. And obviously, you know, there was that moment that you described where you and Zach were officially sort of brought into the fold. But even still, I imagine it's, you know, that's obviously an important thing to happen, but it's probably also something that like, it just, it takes time, you know, And I guess it's been. Been 10 years at this point, right? 10 over 12.

[Dave Depper]

Which is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just been a journey. And just because I was all of a sudden an official band member and allowed to be a creative contributor did not mean that that instantly felt natural. And so that's been its own journey. But at this point we're kind of firing on all cylinders, and the level of trust between everyone and the level of, like, faith and confidence in everyone's taste and abilities and editorial input is just, like, airtight at this point. It feels great. And I think that comes through in the record.

[Ian]

Amazing. Yeah. And I think that's the key to continuing to be, like, a vital creative force that remains creative. You mentioned a few minutes ago not wanting to just be like the anniversary tour band, which obviously you're great at, and you could everyone goody out on that for the rest of their lives. But there is maybe something a little hollow is probably too tight a term or too strong a term for that, but if that's all you are, it's maybe not quite as fulfilling as it might otherwise be.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, everyone is pretty restless in this band. Ben, especially, is just a really inspiring frontman because he clearly does not want to rest on his laurels at all. I mean, in some ways, that anniversary tour is the definition of resting on your laurels. But it was also an attempt to, like, bring that music to a lot of people that never heard it in the first place, because when those. When that Postal Service record first came out, it kind of. It was like a slow burn. And by that. By the time it took off, everybody that had made it was busy with their other projects, like Rylo Kiley and Death Cab were kind of off to the races doing their own thing. And there was a 10th anniversary tour that, like, partway got around the world doing that. But this was a real attempt to sort of like, all right, if you never got a chance to see this music live, like, here you go.

[Ian]

Here it is.

[Dave Depper]

Yep, here it is. See it now. Don't you dare miss it.

[Ian]

There you go. Yeah, I just, you know, you see acts or, you know, one sees acts quite frequently these days who turn into this, like, you know, I think about. I mean, I guess I don't need to go around, you know, naming names or whatever. I can even cut it out if I want. But, like, there was the whole drama about, like, the Rapture last year. I don't know if you follow that at all. Where, like, you know, that was great band, put out a couple great records, obviously, years ago, and. But then, like, now the rapture is back, but it's really just Luke Jenner and just like, a bunch of other people who weren't part of the Rapture. And it seems like they're not making new Rapture records. And I guess the shows are good or whatever, but there's, like, there's weird Tension. And it just, it feels like bleh. You know, all of which is to say, like, I'm very stoked that that is not what, you know, the path that Ben and, you know, Death Cab has taken.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, Ben is really like kind of legacy focused and he's more than anyone I've ever met, just like addicted to making art and addicted to making good art. Like, he is an extremely hard on himself and extremely prolific. Like, he treats this as a job. He like, keeps songwriting office hours five days a week where he writes all day long. When we do these band round robin things, it is like, you better be available for your day and you better be available on Friday to listen to it and curate it. We have regular band meetings where we're talking about the material that's floating around. Like, I really feel fortunate to be in a band with this guy who. There's so many people at this point in their career that the easy road is these anniversary tours. We could just keep playing plans. We could be doing the Narrow Stairs anniversary tour in a couple years. Not to say we won't, but I sort of don't think we'll be doing that. But he's just really like, he's interested in making art that reflects the stage in life he's at. That also isn't like, you know, like I said before, there's like a certain kind of like, I'm in my 50s, this is my gentle reflection on middle age and looking towards the future. And he, if anything, is just sort of like raging against the dying of the light in this way that I find really inspiring. And really, I just feel really lucky to be in a band with someone with that work ethic and lack of complacency in his artistry.

[Ian]

Hell yeah. Is that kind of tied in or part of the concept? Like, this is the first record on Anti. Right. So it's not, you know, we're not going back to Barsook necessarily, but like a little bit more, you know, tuned into this scrappy, upstart underdog ethos that I think defined a lot of the image of at least Death cat for cutie 1.0 in the cultural imagination. Is that kind of part of that too?

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, I think it's a bit of a happy coincidence, but yeah, I mean, we all knew that the contract with Atlantic was up after the last album. We were kind of looking forward to what the next horizon would be and there were options to go with other majors. There was even an option to stick with Atlantic in. In a certain way. And all of us were really excited by the idea of, of kind of finding a label that seemed like our, our peers, like from top to bottom, and that had a roster that was exciting to us to, to be kind of in the, in the, in the trenches with. And Anti is like killing it these days. Like they, they might have the most exciting roster out there right now. M.J. lenderman and the Beths and Slow Pulp and bands like that all and, and several bands that we've toured with. And so yeah, it was just like a nice bit of synchronicity that we, we joined up with them and I think we didn't know we were signing with them when we started the sessions, but they were kind of like the lead contender. And I think it did sort of inform a bit of a creative vision for the record in that the last six records or five records the band made is like, this is an Atlantic Records album. This product coming out on a major label. This is the, the, the vista that this record is looking at over. And this is. With this record, it was more of. Yeah, just not humble, but yeah, scrappier and a more direct, sharpened blade of approach. Thinking about who we were going to be fitting in with on whatever label we might end up.

[Ian]

Sure, yeah. At a certain point, I mean, what do you really need a label for? Also Death Cab for Cutie is going to headline. I think you guys are headlining. What's that? Outside Lands in San Francisco? Yeah, Outside Lands, exactly. In a couple. So whether you're on Atlantic or Anti or whatever, that's happening one way or another. And so obviously a major label contract is a really big deal for a lot of bands, particularly when they got a little bit of energy and they're trying to kind of pop and establish themselves in the industry. But like you said it yourself, this is a three decade long institution. At this point, it's like, what. At a certain point you gotta wonder, what are you getting out of the major label relationship that you wouldn't get, you know, from an Anti. And in fact, what are you, what are you losing by not going in that direction? You know?

[Dave Depper]

Exactly. Yeah. And the Atlantic experience was great and there was an amazing team there, but in between Asphalt Meadows and now 98% of that team was laid off. And pretty much all of. I mean, it's a classic major label story. Like, of course, everyone that sort of advocated for the band in that huge pool that is Atlantic Records had pieced out and we were left with a lot of people that probably would have worked with us and Done okay by us. But at the end of the day, I don't think really care about indie rock. Certainly don't really care about Death Cab. Aren't really interested in like a legacy minded approach to it. And it was sort of an easy, easy decision to kind of let that go because yeah, what does at this point? Death Cab is sort of self sustaining. We're gonna, you know, knock on woodland, on our feet, wherever we ended up. And so, you know, what is the goal? And the goal is to be paired with like minded people that we consider peers that we find inspiring to work with. And that's where Anti comes in.

[Ian]

Salute. Yeah, I think, I mean it's, it's just, it's, it's very cool to me to see a band that's able to age as well as, as, as Death Cab has. Especially in, in this kind of, you know, denuded, you know, artistic landscape in many cases where like either some bands, you know, pop and get big and make their thing and then they're just never heard from again. Others just go on, you know, they turn into oldies acts overnight. I can't tell you how many of these like you know, Pitchfork best new music, 2010 bands doing their like 10 year anniversary tour now. It's like the 15 year anniversary tour.

[Dave Depper]

I know, I know.

[Ian]

It's album that got some press. You know, it's like it sort of, I don't know, it gives me the ick.

[Dave Depper]

It's brutal. Yeah. I don't understand how this band has managed to carve out the little patch of grass that it's on. Like, like I sometimes feel like we are on this. All of these bands were kind of on these various like small mountain peaks or little hills and the, and the ocean has been rising and we are somehow still above the, above the rising waters on our little peak. And other people have been kind of consumed by the rising waters and other people have had to learn how to swim in different ways, but we are just still able to kind of do what, what we've been doing this whole time in the same way without having to really change what we're doing. And yeah, I'm endlessly grateful for that. And I'm also totally mystified by it.

[Ian]

Well, you know, just don't, don't ask too many. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Dave Depper]

I think they say that's what I'm doing. I'm shutting up and playing the guitar.

[Ian]

There you go.

[Poetry Reader]

Pledge myself to your misery I kneel at its throne Respecting your proclivity to languish on your own Like a snowflake starting an avalanche it always depends

[Dave Depper]

on

[Poetry Reader]

where you land There's a trap door in your heart that I'm free falling

[Ian]

through I can only get so close what's your. I saw you, I think, shouting this out somewhere just an hour or two ago online somewhere. Favorite song or, like, most interesting song on the record. Is it How Heavenly Estate?

[Dave Depper]

My favorite song on the record is Trap Door. Okay. I think that just hits, like, all of the Gabardian lyrical notes one would ever hope for. It's a piece of music that was composed by Zach, who some. Zach is like. Zach is one of the most talented people I've ever met. He's terrifyingly gifted at every single instrument. And sometimes I feel this band is too narrow of an aperture for him to fully express himself. And that song is the, like, Platonic ideal of what a Zach Ray composed song is like. I think it is just beautiful, all of those synth arpeggios and this beautiful, warm guitar playing on it that,

[Ian]

you

[Dave Depper]

know, Ben and Zach and I all play guitar and we don't break the credits out individually, so you don't necessarily know who's doing what. But I want to state for the record that Zach playing really beautiful guitar on this song, I. I just love it. It's. It's kind of the song that I have the least to do with. I'm doing some really nice ambient pads and stuff on it, but I love

[Ian]

those big piano chords that come in towards the end.

[Dave Depper]

Oh, that's. That's Ben. I get to play that live, which is just great and very satisfying.

[Ian]

But that's fantastic.

[Dave Depper]

Ben is doing that. So that's. That's my favorite song. Song. But the one I'm personally most proud of is How Heavenly Estate, which was composed musically entirely by me and Nick, the bass player, in one of those weekly songwriting things. And it was almost too gonzo sounding like Nick had it on Monday, sent me this, like, stomping bass thing that he'd done with this hyper drum machine part. And I played that kind of crazy lattice work delay guitar thing and then created that big bridge, put all those feedback swells on it. Sent it to Ben kind of thinking, there is no way this guy is going to write a good song to this. This is, like, too wacky. He's going to hate it. And he came up with, like, at the end of the week, I was like, jesus Christ, how did you do this? This is an unbelievable track. And the demo was so. Unique. I guess is the word. I wish I had a $5 word that was better than unique, but it

[Ian]

was just so like, does the job just fine.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah. It just sounded so definitively itself. I was like, how are we gonna top this in the studio? And somehow Congleton brought out sides of it that I hadn't even imagined and made it sound so. I mean, that song sounds like Godzilla stomping all over Tokyo to me musically. And Ben wrote these extremely poignant lyrics about the death of a friend of his. And I just think it is kind of not only like nods a little bit to the energy of old Death Cab, but kind of points in a new direction. We've never gone and I think in a lot of ways it sounds like nothing we've ever done. And I don't even know what even sounds like in terms of other music I've heard. It just sort of like fulfills all of the promise that this lineup of this band has to me. I think everyone plays their asses off on it.

[Ian]

Yeah, that's. I mean, I didn't. I guess it makes sense now. You know, thinking back to some of the lyrics, past or present state, I think. Right. That it is about the death of a friend. I have a hard time like kind of unlocking, you know, really keying in on exactly what's being said the first. You know, while I'm still familiarizing myself the record.

[Dave Depper]

So you haven't listened to it 20 times, Ian?

[Ian]

Not quite. Look, I got a lot of records to listen to these days. I bet I'm just flushing all the Mike love shit out of my system.

[Dave Depper]

That's going to be a years long process.

[Ian]

Exactly. Fortunately, this is. This has helped with that.

[Dave Depper]

Oh mean, by the way, I meant in. I was going to reply to your email. I have a very excellent selfie with Mike Love. I need to send you.

[Ian]

Maybe that. Maybe that's the COVID art for this episode.

[Dave Depper]

I think it's got to be. I look a bit different. It's from about 12 years ago, but it's, you know, it's. It's worthwhile content.

[Ian]

Okay, well that's. That's going up somewhere. The. The management team might not be so happy with me if it's a 12 year old picture of you and just random mic loves.

[Dave Depper]

I'm. The management team does not care about my. My. My visage, I don't think. But I. Yeah, the side note, I. I used to be in the Man Fruit Bats and we played Bonnaroo and the like Brian. Whatever it was, it was like the Brian Wilson reunification with Mike Love lineup thing was happening that year.

[Ian]

Yeah, it was like the 50th anniversary tour celebration reunion thing.

[Dave Depper]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And we were in the catering tent and Mike Love and Al Jardine were like in the food line with trays of food in their hands.

[Ian]

Wow.

[Dave Depper]

I was like, oh, my God, I gotta go get a picture with these guys.

[Ian]

Here we go. Here's the hard hitting journalism that this podcast is meant for. Mike Love and Al Jardine are in line at the food tent. They got the trip. What's on the. I'm sure you don't remember.

[Dave Depper]

This is the juice. It's always like pulled pork and some sort of tempeh dish and maybe like a questionable Thai item and a salad with blue cheese dressing. I'm not sure. I can't recall, although it might be in the photo. But I got a picture with Mike Love, who was very nice, actually, and I went up to little Al and I asked for a picture and he said, with my food,

[Ian]

Like that. That's why I love him.

[Dave Depper]

Well, at this point, I was fairly green, you know, I. I hadn't spent that much time in these giant catering tents with legends of stage and screen. And, you know, if. If I was in the catering line at this point and. And someone from. You know, who's. Who's a good band right now to talk about. I don't know, but someone came up to me. I don't know if I'd say with my food, but I might say, sure, let me put this down and we'll do this. But Al is very much scowling in the picture I have with him. Well, people will see this in the content I send you.

[Ian]

Beautiful. All right. I'm anxiously looking forward to both of these images.

[Dave Depper]

Yes.

[Ian]

All right. Well, I don't even know how we got here. Okay. That's what I was gonna say.

[Dave Depper]

Floshing the mic love out of your system.

[Ian]

Yes, floshing the mic love out of my system. Not having keyed in on the lyrics everywhere quite yet. What I was. The point I was gonna say initially, and it doesn't even matter, is how Heavenly Estate sounds like a song that's gonna kick ass playing live. Although that's what I was gonna say is complicating that factor is the fact that it's about the death of a. Maybe it's not quite so exciting to play, at least for Ben, if it's sort of a heavy subject matter, but musically at least, it seems like something that's really gonna Kick ass in a live setting, definitely.

[Dave Depper]

And. And, I mean, Ben writes songs about a lot of hard subjects and knows what he's getting into. And I think that's part of what makes him a compelling live performer is he can express the sorrow or heartbreak or. Or grief while simultaneously kicking ass all over the place and ripping guitar at the same time. So don't worry about him. He'll. He'll be fine while.

[Ian]

He'll figure it out. Okay. Okay. Well, on that note, already segueing into some Jokerman faves here. We've kind of buried the lead. Although the lead is out there as of the time this episode posts on Monday. Because I saw the email just hit my inbox right before we hopped on. I haven't had a chance to read it quite yet, but here we are speaking June 5th. June 4th. You were there just last night at Bob Dylan's debut performance of the. What is it, the Long, Hot Wet American Summer Tour.

[Dave Depper]

I couldn't believe it. I was like, I'm gonna go check out the merch. Maybe he's still got one of these Tempest shirts going on. And I saw Long Hot Summer Tour, and I just thought, unbelievable, Amazing, amazing.

[Ian]

The man just continues.

[Dave Depper]

Delightful.

[Ian]

Continues to wow night in and night out. Okay. Baby, Won't yout be my baby.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Didn't even remember that song exists. How was it?

[Dave Depper]

I'm ashamed to say I didn't either. So, you know, he played, I believe, 16 songs and four were covers. I am, you know, I am pretty jokerman mindset pilled. At this point, I can spot the twists and turns of Bob's reinterpretations. I. Even though a calypso song began and I was confused about what it might be, I quickly groked that it was, when I paint my masterpiece, like, I can. I can do that shit. But after, you know, the three, like, there was like a Bo Diddley and a Jerry Lee Lewis cover, you know, that I didn't recognize. I just. And another. Another cover had already happened when Baby, let. Let me be your baby. Let me be your baby. Is that the name?

[Ian]

Baby, won't you be a baby?

[Dave Depper]

I think that once that one got fired up, I was like, okay, this is another obscure 50s track that he's probably written about in Philosophy of Modern Song. And I'm going to go back and listen to it. And this morning, as I was kind of prepping to be a field reporter for Flagging down the Double E's, I got on Dylan Reddit and was shocked to learn that it was A Basement Tapes. It's on the box set and it's on even the like curated partial song dump of the box set.

[Ian]

Right.

[Dave Depper]

But I cannot admit that. I mean, I cannot claim to have been familiar with the song at the time, but am retroactively delighted that I was there for the longest gap between composition and performance of any Bob Dylan song in history.

[Ian]

That's right. Yeah. I think Ray was digging that stat up for us. What is it, 59 years?

[Dave Depper]

Right, 59 years.

[Ian]

1967-20. The 2026 debut of a 1967 Basement Tapes Oddity, which did not even appear on the Basement Tapes. You know, did. Did ultimately appear on the complete basement tape set from a few years ago. Obviously.

[Dave Depper]

That's our guy. That's our guy.

[Ian]

Man. What a. What a. What a. What a cad. He's keeping us guessing even here in. In 2026. What was. Can you give me. Can you give me the five minute rundown of the rest of the show?

[Dave Depper]

Yeah. Full disclosure, I have not seen Bob Dylan since the Love and Theft tour.

[Ian]

I'm assuming so I didn't realize that.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah. As much of a latter day Dylan fanatic I am. One of the unfortunate side effects of being in a touring act that is around the same. I can't believe I'm saying this, but around the same draw and is on the same circuits as Dylan. Our tours almost always line up with his tours and we play the same venues. And I'm never home when he's playing. So I have missed everything. And I am deeply saddened that I never caught a Rough and Rowdy Ways show. And so this was kind of my first chance to see any of that stuff. And I was a little sad that I only heard two Rough and Rowdy Ways songs. He did. I contain Multitudes and Crossing the Rubicon exemplary. It seems like the set list kind of hewed closely to sort of like a hybrid of the Rough and Rowdy and outlaw tour stuff. You know, early Roman Kings, under the Red sky, to be Alone with you. But in lieu of playing six Rough and Rowdy Ways songs, he plays two Rough and Rowdy Way songs and four very obscure covers and a Basement Tapes outtake from 1967. But what I will say, His singing was astonishingly good. It was like shadows in the Night. Quality control over the croon. I don't know if it's because he's had two months off. I don't know if this acoustic format suits him particularly well. But his voice was mixed very well. His mic technique seemed pretty on, like, he was not just kind of like leaning away from the mic a bunch

[Ian]

of the time, as he's known to do.

[Dave Depper]

As he is known to do. Yeah. From. From Note 1 of To Be alone with you, I was like, damn. Okay, this is going to be a good night. This guy is having fun. This guy is really leaning into a resonant vocal timbre. Having not seen tours for the last few years, like on the Love and Theft tour, I think that was the first time he had started kind of like messing around with the keyboard. And I remember when I first saw him doing that, it seemed pretty like vestigial. Vestigial to like the rest of the show. Like the band is really kind of carrying it. Bob kind of like drops in and sprinkles some twinklies here and there, some clunky notes, that kind of thing.

[Ian]

Sure.

[Dave Depper]

This show felt very led by his piano playing. And was that kind of the experience on the Rough and Rowdy?

[Ian]

I would say. I mean, depends on what era of the Rough and Rowdy Ways, I think. Certainly the lack. So we just saw him down in Texas the last couple dates of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour, which were just like five, six weeks ago. It's insane that he's already back on the road with the next new tour.

[Dave Depper]

Some call it a never ending tour.

[Ian]

Some might. Others might call it the Long Hot Summer Tour. Yeah, that definitely felt like that. Like what you're saying where especially with the two dual acoustic guitars with Larry, or. Excuse me, Larry. I wish it was Larry. With Bob Britt and Doug Lancio, it's kind of tuned down a little bit quieter. And so Bob is more knit into the sound of the band. Other parts of the Rough and Rowdy Ways too were certainly like when Donny Haron was there towards the earlier part 21, 22, 23, it was a little bit more what you were talking about, where the band was kind of just doing their thing and Bob would just kind of do his Thelonious Monk shit here and there. And that worked. I mean, that's fantastic stuff too. But yeah, I think whatever they've done, where they've arrived at now is this very natural, easy, smooth sound where everyone is kind of just in the pocket together. Did the acoustic. Did the dual acoustic thing, did that work like in an outdoor amphitheater? Cause where we were seeing them were these like, you know, 1500 cap theaters. And it sounded great in there. But I'm wondering how that sound translates to a bigger, you know, wider outdoor stage.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, well, Edgefield, which is the venue I saw him at, which is essentially in Portland. It's 20 miles out of town in a town called Troutdale. It is like a legendarily really great sounding shed, if you want to even call it a shed. It's not really a shed, it's just like a grassy lawn kind of thing with a little bit of reserve seating in the front. But it has stellar sound and it was fairly breathtaking, sonically. Like the. The acoustics, you could hear every nuance of every note that everyone was playing. Even like, I feel like stand up bass often really suffers the most in. In environments like that. And Garnier, like, every nuance of what he was doing was just like absolutely articulate and present. And so it really flattered the format of what they were doing. And Bob seemed extremely engaged. And, you know, I know that everyone's always kind of like looking at him, terrified for the changes and what he's going to do next, but I got less of a sense of that and more of a sense of like, this man is leading the show. He is playing piano parts that we are going to interact with and we are going to kind of follow his vocal nuances. And it just seemed like a very confident and arranged performance. Like, even the, like, kind of blues ear numbers that, you know, you're crossing the Rubicons, your early Roman Kings had these kind of like instrumental breaks where like, he would be doing very, like, particular chord changes on the piano with like, new melodies. And the guys clearly had rehearsed this along with them and were playing like in. In tandem with. With the melodies he was playing on the piano. It just seemed really thought through and rehearsed and. And very like, very intentional, for lack of a better word.

[Ian]

Amazing.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was very compelling from start to finish. Whether 6,000, mostly boomers that were expecting all the classic hits.

[Ian]

That was my next question. Yeah. What was the crowd vibe like? Because, I mean, this is. It seems like it's sort of Bob's own little miniature version of the Willie Nelson outlaw fest thing that he's done the last couple summers where it's these big, you know, multi. He's got John Doe and Lucinda Williams opening for him here. You know, it's kind of a big, you know, summer festival type energy. And obviously, I think one of the main discussions with the Outlaw shit has been like, a lot of the people in the crowd don't really know what they're getting themselves into and they might not really be enjoying the performance from Bob. The way that Bob Dylan fans are enjoying the performance from Bob. Was it any better than that, or was it still sort of perplexing to some of the folks out there?

[Dave Depper]

It was definitely perplexing to folks. I think the format worked in Bob's favor because the sort of, like, acoustic performance presented so sonically pristine and the, like. It's not just some, like, party atmosphere. Outlaw. I get the sense that, like, some of the outlaw stuff was, like, a bit of a boozy party atmosphere and

[Ian]

passing the spliff, knocking back the Bud Light limes, you know, chattering. It was, you know, it was a mess at times.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry I missed that. So it was a bit more of a reverent presentation combined with just sheer numbers of people. That place holds five or six thousand people. And it is like, you know, a summer night on a lawn where you can bring in booze or whatever. But I would say he had him in the palm of his hands for a good two thirds of the set. You know, he comes out to be alone with you. It is, like, immediately compelling. People recognize it. It's great. And then, boom. It was like four obscuro songs to the max.

[Ian]

Yeah. I think Axe in the Wind was one of the first couple songs or something. That's not what your typical boomer, Bob Dylan fan is there to see him do.

[Dave Depper]

I think it might have been the second song he played. Yeah. People started getting restless about two thirds of the way through. But then he, like, pulls out Rainy Day Women. I contain multitudes. And one, I think, Watchtower. And it was this, like, kind of brilliant pacing. Got everyone back just enough. You know, everyone's. The thing I love about Rainy Day Women is like, everyone is queued up to say, everybody just must get stoned, like, on rhythm. And he absolutely refuses to sing it in the rhythm that is original for the song. It was absolutely hilarious to me,

[Ian]

stepping all over everyone's plans in the audience.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah. So after that, I think there were three or more four songs to close the night. And he closed with this very stately version of Crossing the Rubicon.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Dave Depper]

But there was a sense of, like, okay, we're just going to get through this. And there's. And people are looking at their watches. There's still five minutes after this. Clearly, we're going to get a Blowing in the Wind or something like that. But. But, you know, he does. He goes to the front of the stage, does his little pose, and then.

[Ian]

Hand on the hip, Hand on the hip.

[Dave Depper]

North face, white rain, slicker, Hoodie up

[Ian]

Still doing the fucking North Face.

[Dave Depper]

It's a long hot summer. You gotta. You gotta have protection, you know?

[Ian]

Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Protection from. You ought to tell Ben that's the hot look for rock and roll front men these days. Just wear the white tactical rain slicker in. I'm guessing it wasn't quite rain slicker weather there in Troutdale, Oregon last night.

[Dave Depper]

Beautiful, beautiful summer night. It really, in retrospect, a missed opportunity on that Postal Service tour because that white would have really fit in with the whole colorway.

[Ian]

It's even sort of reflective. Bob's. I think there's sort of a reflective capacity to it. So like, you know, you could have had some cool lights, you know, like disco ball lights, you know, maybe for the 25th anniversary of Postal Service or 30th, you know, whenever Ben decides to take that one back out of the shed.

[Dave Depper]

We'll see. Oh, to go back in time.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Dave Depper]

Change the wardrobe there.

[Ian]

Well, you'll know. You'll know for next time. Is there, I wonder, is there, Is there, Is the Bob thing. Is that just a you thing in the band? Because I obviously, you know, Bob is sort of, you know, common DNA for any rock artist working in the 21st century, but I, I wouldn't say that I necessarily detect a ton of like specific, you know, Dylanisms in the greater Death Cab discography. Is there much of an appreciation or. I'm sure there's an appreciation, but like a, you know, an interest in Bob that you share with the rest of the band.

[Dave Depper]

Ben and I are definitely the most Dylan forward people in the band, but Ben, Ben is die hard, like through John Wesley Harding, he. He could do with some Clockwork Orange style, Jokerman exposure, force feeding. I think he. I don't, I think, I think his relationship with 70s Dylan is a little bit fraught. Do I. I don't know what it is about 70s Dylan that maybe rubs him a little bit the wrong way, I think. I think something about Rolling Thunder is a little bit anathema to like his approach to showmanship. And then I think there's just a bit of a lack of familiarity with anything past that. And I, I just haven't really tried to like put the screws to him with stuff, but he's very open minded and loves being exposed to new stuff. So I'm. I have been toying with the idea of like a, you know, post 76 super curated all the dank nugs, you know, list for Ben.

[Ian]

Now we're talking.

[Dave Depper]

And as far as the rest of the guys, I have not really discussed Dylan too much with them. They know that I go very deep with this kind of thing and they respect it, but we haven't really bonded over it as such.

[Ian]

That's, you know, that's perfectly fair. I can't blame anyone for, you know, not going all the way down to together through life and fallen angels along with us. Although, you know, maybe one day if they do. Obviously we know wonders await that deep in the.

[Dave Depper]

In the wonders await. Yeah, I do look forward to the like joint Ben Gibber, Dave Deper. Let's. Let's revisit saved pod that we do. We'll. We'll see about that one.

[Ian]

Absolutely. Listen, any. Anytime, you know, maybe. Maybe this summer in the bus when you guys are touring all around you just one day, just flip on a little empire burlesque or you know, maybe an omercy if you really want to. That's, you know, I could see a Daniel Lanois Death Cab link up one day.

[Dave Depper]

Yeah. Zack has worked with Lanhwa quite a bit, I believe.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Dave Depper]

Zack is really, I mean, I'm not exaggerating. He's worked with absolutely everyone. Sure. I've met Lanois a couple of times. Yeah. I mean he's. I don't know how much he's like actively working these days, though. I don't really see his name on that much stuff.

[Ian]

Well, I think, I mean, I'm sure we could go further, but I know you've already been on the horn with Ray going through all things Dylan and long hot summer tour today, and I'm sure you have. Well, hopefully this is the end of launch day festivities for you. Hopefully you can sit back and crack a cold one after this. But I don't want to put you through too many paces here on big release day.

[Dave Depper]

Oh, easy breezy and a long time coming. Longtime listener, first time caller. It's great to put a face to the voice.

[Ian]

Indeed. It's great to have you and hopefully we can get you back for probably not a Death Grips episode, but maybe our next main series after that. I'm sure we can find some common ground there.

[Dave Depper]

Perhaps. Yes. Yeah, I look forward to figuring that out with you.

[Ian]

Well, Dave, thanks so much for hopping on the band. As if you even need it to be stated again, is Death Cab for Cutie. You may have heard of them. The new album I built you a tower out now everywhere on Anti Records and touring across the country this year. I would say normally this is at the part of the interview where I'd be like, hey, yeah, when you come through, put me on the list. I'll come out. But I don't think it works like that for outside lands, so we might have to see what alternate arrangements we can figure out there. Dave, thanks so much.

[Dave Depper]

Thank you so much for having me on Jokerman podcast.

[Poetry Reader]

Like a vampire or a neighbor,

[Ian]

they

[Poetry Reader]

sensed your hesitation and your eventual acquaintance acquiescence. Rain sheets of pain and anger. But I thought to myself, how heavenly a stain. The acceptance of collapsing under unspeakable waves. The righteous indignation began flowing as expected, you're a question without an answer. Ninja inspection. Rest deflected. There was no closure in your exit.