In Conversation: NOAH LENNOX + PETE KEMBER

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Jokermen – In Conversation: Noah Lennox (Panda Bear) + Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)

Date: July 13, 2026
Host: Ian Summer
Guests: Noah Lennox (Panda Bear) & Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)
Main Topic: The creation, ideas, and process behind Panda Bear & Sonic Boom’s new album A Question of When

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Episode Overview

In this rich and candid conversation, host Ian Summer brings together Noah Lennox (Panda Bear) and Pete Kember (Sonic Boom) to discuss their ongoing collaboration—including their just-released album A Question of When. They cover everything from basketball and sport fandom to new approaches to record releases, the importance of real-life musical experiences, the perils of streaming and algorithms, the joy and challenge of collaboration, and the album’s musical DNA. Listeners get deep insight into both artists’ creative processes and philosophies, punctuated with memorable anecdotes and laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Off-the-cuff: Sports, Sponsorship, and Culture (04:00–10:00)

• Noah is a big basketball fan ("basketball is my favorite. I like all sports. I'll check out any sport. But I mean, before music, sports was the big thing for me..." – Noah, 04:13), while Pete has little interest in sports and reflects on financial corruption and commercialization in both sports and music ("most sports are so polluted these days...since big money came into it...everyone's bought" – Pete, 07:19).
• Discussion of NBA free agency, team loyalty, sports franchise commercialization, and jersey sponsorships as emblematic of money's influence on culture.
• Transition into how the commercialization and commodification of music parallels that of sports.

2. Release Philosophy: No Streaming, Record Store Loyalty (11:00–19:00)

• The album A Question of When is purposely not on streaming platforms. It must be purchased from physical or digital record stores.
• This is both a response to the erosion of real-life, communal music discovery and a pushback against algorithm-driven consumption.
• Quote: "Hoping to encourage people to kind of get together more in real life... This decision, the streaming thing, amongst others on this record were kind of attempts by us to sort of practice what we preach..." – Noah, 11:33
• Both artists wax nostalgic for the role of record stores, radio, and in-person interaction in shaping personal taste and transformative music experiences ("The difference between the people you'll meet in a great record store versus what algorithms want to throw at you is massive. It can be life changing..." – Pete, 12:57).

3. The Algorithm & Radio vs. Real Discovery (14:30–23:00)

• Critique of algorithm-driven listening—how it feeds "echo chambers" and limits surprise.
• Emphasis on radio DJs (esp. John Peel) and knowledgeable record store clerks as necessary tastemakers who widen listeners' horizons ("radio...they're gonna play stuff that an algorithm wouldn't be putting in front of you" – Pete, 17:44).
• Discussion of the decline of radio diversity and the importance of IRL (in real life) listening and music buying.
• "We're a little out of balance at the moment...I think we miss a little bit the stuff that we don't think we're into or being fed stuff that maybe isn't in our orbit." – Noah, 15:55

4. Making the Album: Ideas, Laughter & Process (24:30–41:00)

• Despite returning themes of alienation and critique, the duo emphasizes that joy, fun, and humor are central to their process.
• Most conceptual frameworks came after the music was written; the creative sessions were about "having fun and enjoying each other's company" (Noah, 24:29).
• Song ideas often originate from Pete sending Noah beats/loops with a title or phrase, which Noah may use as a lyrical seed.
• The Graveyard track is described as “cheap bin,” “novelty,” and intentionally funny, with vintage and playful sounds reminiscent of "Monster Mash" and Lou Reed’s early work.
• Quote: "It's one of those things where if it's tickling you, it'll probably tickle other people." – Pete, 34:27

5. The Arrangements: Harp, Steel Drums, and Sound Palette (32:00–34:20)

• Mary Lattimore’s harp (recorded in an hour) and steel drums are used to create a distinctive, percussive, and melodic palette.
• The intention was to push the sound somewhere new, distinguishable from their previous album Reset (32:19–34:20).

6. Evolution of Collaboration (37:36–46:00)

• Early team-ups (e.g., Tomboy, Grim Reaper) had Pete as a more traditional “producer,” but recent albums are true co-creations.
• The duo detail their shifting roles—from production/mixing to blending of songwriting, vocals, and conceptual input.
• Quote: "It was kind of my thing filtered through Pete lens... But these two records feel far more representative of both of our points of view." – Noah, 38:23

7. Sound, Voice, and Songwriting (44:37–55:08)

• Pete speaks to the comforting combination of his baritone with Noah’s voice: "It's a bit like a hovercraft... a fat cushion underneath." – Pete, 45:24
• Lyrics are written by both; Pete led vocals/lyrics on several tracks, Noah on others. Pete often seeds titles and concepts, Noah executes and expands.
• Notable track creation: Graveyard was written in one feverish morning by Noah on inspiration from Pete’s backing and the F1 sample (53:19).
• Quote: "The lyrics, those lyrics are really. Because he's talking about death obviously. But it's just done in such a light and humorous way. You know, I got the last laugh, but it wasn't funny... these lyrics are just... gold." – Pete, 55:15

8. Live Performance, Touring, and Real-World Connection (56:10–62:00)

• Touring is approached carefully; both admit long tours take a major toll ("touring for me kind of scrambled my brain" – Noah, 58:12).
• They prioritize fun, health, and festival/special event shows over exhaustive touring.
• They're organizing 120 listening parties at U.S. record stores to foster real community around the record.
• A Question of When release sacrifices about 35-40% of potential streaming income for a commitment to “real life” music experiences.

9. Social Media, Community, and Artistic Intention (61:11–end)

• The pair tried an ironic "Unfollow Panda Bear and Sonic Boom" campaign that, humorously, only resulted in more followers.
• The persistence of real-life (IRL) connection, even in a digital world, is a central message.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On streaming vs. real connection:
  "I think people need people generally speaking... attempts by us to sort of practice what we preach." – Noah, 11:33
• On record stores vs. algorithms:
  "The difference between the people that you'll meet in a great record store versus what algorithms want to throw at you is massive. Is life changing." – Pete, 12:57
• On collaboration:
  "You're trying to share something with somebody where you both end up in a place that you wouldn't have gotten to on your own." – Noah, 46:28
• On finding joy in the chaos:
  "Trying to point to something beautiful in the chaos. I hope the album does that, because I think it's there." – Noah, 51:22
• On the noisy, wild sound of the record:
  "Kind of feels like you're in the middle of this, just like, I don't know, whirling, you know, almost disaster zone at a certain point, but there's still this just, like, perfect little jewel of, like, you know, catchy music." – Ian, 51:16
• On handling mortality in lyrics:
  "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. So sometimes talking about things in a way that's sort of humorous or engaging... it's easier to kind of confront things..." – Noah, 55:37
• On the value of doing things IRL:
  "It's very interesting and it's stimulating to do these things for IRL events... I have to say, I think it is more satisfying." – Pete, 62:09

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sports, commercialization, and AI in music: 04:00–10:22
• On not streaming the new record: 11:33–14:48
• Record stores, radio, the algorithmic era: 12:57–23:12
• Album’s creative process, humor and joy in creation: 24:29–36:46
• Harp, steel drums, production sound palette: 32:00–34:20
• Collaboration evolution, comparing old & new processes: 37:36–46:00
• Working relationship and singing together: 44:37–46:00
• Lyrics and track creation stories (Graveyard, etc.): 52:00–55:08
• Touring philosophy and listening party initiative: 56:10–62:00
• Social media IRL paradox & closing thoughts: 61:11–end

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Tone and Dynamic

• The conversation is warm, open, humorous ("That was two. That was cheap." – Noah, 10:50; joking about “Man George”).
• Both guests are thoughtful and candid about their creative process, personal philosophies, and the changing nature of music consumption and discovery.
• There is a sense of camaraderie, mutual respect, and deep musical curiosity throughout.
• The episode blends nostalgia and critique with a keen eye on what needs to be preserved and rediscovered in modern music culture.

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Conclusion

This episode is a treasure trove for music fans, offering a deep dive into how two distinctive and influential artists think about the paradoxes of making music and sustaining connection in an ever-digitizing world. Noah and Pete’s reflections on collaboration, fun, community, and commerce will resonate with anyone who cares about music as both an art and a lived experience. Their new album, and its defiantly non-streaming release, is both a statement and an invitation—to reconnect with music, and with each other, in a more tangible, communal way.

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Transcript

[Ian Summer]

Jokerman podcast is brought to you by Distrokid and their new Direct to fan tool. Allowing any artist to sell merch. Distrokid Direct allows artists to create a merch store in minutes without any upfront costs or any technical skills or know how they'll take care of all the logistics and the nitty gritty. And as with distribution through Distrokid, they never take a cut of the proceeds. You, the artist, keep 100% of your earnings. Once again, that's Distrokid Direct. Open a store [e-mail] direct welcome back to Jokerman In Conversation. I'm Ian Summer interview series continues apace. I guess this is just what we're doing this summer, talking to various homies across the world of good music as we continue on through the Death Grips discography on Patreon. Close to wrapping that up and then approaching before too long. Jokerman4 looking like probably early August kickoff for that. Stay tuned. More news on that soon. In the meantime today two certified bonafide legends you already see in the episode description Panda Bear Sonic Boom AKA Noah Lennox, Pete Kember, who just dropped their second co created album A Question of when last week. Of course Noah and Pete have been working together for 1015 years at this point, dating all the way back to the legendary Panda Bear tomboy record, a perennial favorite of yours truly and I'm sure many others out there. Noah and Pete's collaboration series of collaborations have been some of the most rewarding, interesting, just frankly enjoyable listens over the last however many years. They dropped Reset, their first collaborative co headlined album a couple years ago and are following it up again now with a record that is not available on the streamers, no Spotify, I don't think any Apple music.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

It's a little bit of an old

[Ian Summer]

school, a bit of a throwback release. You gotta buy this music the old fashioned way by going to a website and paying for it and downloading it. Or of course patronizing your local record shop which we always advocate for here. Extremely catchy listen, just fun music on this record. Title track is one of my favorites of the whole year. Have not been able to stop listening for the last several weeks. Let's get into it with the guys here are Noah and Pete.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I'm telling you to give me that, I wanna give it to thee again. Caught up in a fit lie

[Ian Summer]

Noah Lennox, Pete Gember, thank you so much for joining us on Jokerman.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Thanks for having us. Thank you.

[Ian Summer]

Pleasure's truly all mine. I understand it's been sort of a whirlwind press week for you guys, so hopefully I'm gonna not bore you too much with too many of the same questions, but apologies if I make you recite the same four sound bits for the 900th time this week.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

No worries.

[Ian Summer]

Well, I'll see if I can start off with just a little bit of light patter that maybe you haven't hit so much in other interviews. Pete, I don't know what your interest level is, but, Noah, I'm pretty sure you are an NBA head. Is that right? Do I understand correctly?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah, basketball is my favorite. I like all sports. I'll check out any sport. But I mean, before music, sports was the big thing for me, so I haven't. Haven't given it up yet. Word.

[Ian Summer]

Well, any. You know, this. This interview is going to run a couple of weeks down the line, so we don't need to be super topical. Obviously. NBA free agency, maybe not obviously. NBA free agency is starting today. LeBron just announced that he's not going to be going back to the Lakers. But we're not.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

He's going to Golden State.

[Ian Summer]

It seems like it's going to be Golden State, but he's playing it close to the vest, so.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

So it's a good move. It's fun. It'll be fun.

[Ian Summer]

I'm in sort of a weird situation personally. I am a Lakers fan, grew up in Los Angeles, but I live in San Francisco right now. So I'm a sort of, you know, kind of torn, torn between worlds. There any. Any thoughts just on Knicks, Spurs, Thunder, Just the way the recent season wrapped up.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I have a lot of Knicks fans friends, so. And I just thought they were a really cool team, so I was definitely rooting for him. I think Wemby's annoying. And Castle and Harper are sick.

[Ian Summer]

Harper's amazing. It seemed like he could just get to the hoop like anytime he want. He could just like anytime they pass him the ball at the top of the three point, like he'd just get to the hoop just like instantly.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I love both of those guys, but I thought New York had a really cool team and I was happy to see him win.

[Ian Summer]

I'm with you there. And just, you know, fortunately not the Thunder also.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Lord, I'm not as mad about OKC as a lot of people seem to be. I. I think the. Them being sort of foul baiters and playing dirty or whatever. I think a lot of people do that. I don't see why they. I mean, maybe they're the best at It. But I don't. I don't see why they're kind of singled out for that.

[Ian Summer]

I guess that's fair.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I.

[Ian Summer]

There's something sort of objectionable about that. I think that the whole, like, Chet Holmgren failing to show up type of thing also kind of rubbed me the wrong way, at least.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah, he didn't. He didn't have a great series, but, I mean, I'm not the biggest fan, but I thought the whining about them was maybe a little overblown.

[Ian Summer]

That's fair enough. Pete, you much of a basketball fan?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Pete's asleep.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I kid. I could give a fine fudge. But I know America has a much more. I mean, there's loads of English dudes who love soccer, but that's kind of it, really. I mean, I guess you get some cricket dudes, but America is definitely much more interested in sport than anywhere else. I notice it's much more closely followed by. But, yeah, it's all. It's kind of meaningless to me. I'm afraid me and Noah are the opposites when it comes to sport.

[Ian Summer]

That's perfectly fair enough. I take it you don't have a strong rooting interest in the old World cup that's ongoing at the moment.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I couldn't give another flying fuck for that. I mean, yeah, I should keep my mouth shut, but I think most sports are so polluted these days, certainly. I mean, somehow I even know about it. But, you know, the UK football scene, since big money came into it, it's probably about 30 years ago now, and the sponsorship thing, they're just. Everyone's bought and I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if that's sport,

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

but money ruins everything. I think we're all on the same page there.

[Ian Summer]

I feel that. I feel. I remember when they. When they brought the NBA jersey patch, like, the sponsorship patches on in the NBA jerseys maybe five, six years ago, I was like, you know, this is terrible. You know, I just find the sight of the soccer players with, like, the giant, like, Arab Emirates, like, airline. Like, I don't even know what team you're on. I just. You're. You're, like, playing for the United Arab Emirates Airlines, like, you know, ridiculous.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

And.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

And I think there's also. I know in the UK they do at least two different strips, you know, that the fans will buy every year, and it wouldn't surprise me if they do that twice a year these days, just sort of endlessly creating stuff. But, yeah, that's.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

That's the way it Is. Well, you should get our merch, though.

[Ian Summer]

I was just gonna say money has polluted and corrupted sports, but fortunately that hasn't happened in music. Right, guys?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah. Who knows what's going on? I saw today that I thought this is kind of interesting. The Boy George is going to use AI to record some of his big hits so he can put them out again, new recordings of them. I thought that was kind of an interesting. Because, I mean, he's. Of course not. He's not. He's not trying to learn it on someone else's model. Is. He's using his own model for it. So I thought that was quite a twist.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Is he going to. Is the idea to make you said re record his stuff?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

He's not gonna get news because most, most, most, most artists deals with labels and, you know, I. I couldn't tell you what it is on our deal, but I mean, there's loads of deals where after two or three years you are able to re record that song for another label. And of course, it's a separate master and the master would not be owned by the original company anymore.

[Ian Summer]

So it's a little bit like the Taylor Swift thing where she re recorded all her songs, the rights to them. But he's using AI Also. Do I understand that correctly?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. The first. First band I knew who did it was the scientists in the 80s. They re recorded. They're an Australian sort of. They were peers of the Birthday Party. I guess they were better than the Birthday Party. But yeah, they did it back in the 80s to sort of reclaim their catalog. Yeah, but yeah, so I thought that was an interesting. An interesting twist.

[Ian Summer]

Well, best of luck to Boy George. Maybe I'll see if I get him on the program for an interview when that. Whenever that collection of songs drops.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I think he gives good interview.

[Ian Summer]

I think he probably does.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I heard he's like a big guy. He's like a really tall guy, just

[Ian Summer]

large, just sizable man. Boy George.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah, I think he's a big man.

[Ian Summer]

All right. Well, maybe they should call him Man George.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I'm down. That was two.

[Ian Summer]

That was cheap. This is maybe a perfect segue, though. So, you guys, obviously we're here to talk about a question of when an album that is not out as of when we're speaking, but will be out by the time this interview posts. Fantastic collaborative record. An interesting approach to release goes along with this one. This is one of those topics I'm sure that you probably have given this spiel about before, but I can't not Ask you about it a little bit for us. What, what the deal is with the channels that this album is going to be available through and the channels it will not be available through. And then, you know. How'd you guys kind of arrive at that decision?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Well, it came pretty. I feel like it was late in the game that, that the. The non streaming thing, but it just felt like considering a lot of the conversations we had around making this thing and we, we hang out a lot even when we're not just making stuff. We'll kind of have dinner every once in a while. Pete and I, I should say, live about 25 minute drive from each other here in Portugal. And it just felt kind of like in, in sync with a lot of the, the stuff that we were talking about as far as encouraging. Hoping to encourage people to kind of get together more in real life as we felt like that was kind of something we're getting away from in a way that seems kind of detrimental to us. I think. I don't want to speak for Pete, but I think people need people generally speaking. And this decision, the streaming thing, amongst others on this record were kind of attempts by us to sort of practice what we preach a little bit as far as some of the themes that we're exploring on the record.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I think also there was, you know, we're, we're from a generation where there were record stores still. And I mean, Noah worked at other music in New York.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Sure.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

And I was a customer of the music and we were using that previously when we were talking as an example of the amazing shit that can happen when you get, get, get up, go out, go to the record store. And you know, the, the difference between the people that you'll meet in a great record store versus the what algorithms want to throw at you is, is massive. Is life changing. It can be life changing. I'd say it was for me really. I mean, some of the most momentous things that happened in my life with music started with going in a record store. And I've never used Spotify or any streaming platform other than YouTube, which is algorithm works in a sort of interesting way. I mean it plays you back things that you already asked it to play you, which I actually quite like. It very rarely surprises me. It very rarely crosses genre and it very rarely leaves the decade that you started in, which is. Although today I was listening to some old, some old 60s stuff and it actually went in to go on by Nora and I and I said, oh, that's kind of, that's interesting. That it could see that as a reasonable transition without, you know, without bucking the vibe, if you know what I mean. I thought it was interesting that it was taking something clearly outside of it. Another. From another decade, another century, which. Another century. Another century, I think. Yeah, I think so.

[Ian Summer]

Yeah. I mean, I guess, I think we

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

clicked over into the new one, didn't we?

[Ian Summer]

Oh, I guess. Okay. I was, for some reason, I was thinking 19. I thought it was going to be playing you like, you know, Debussy or something when you had been.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

That's this album.

[Ian Summer]

I mean, I guess. Yeah, it makes sense when you think about it a little bit. Not that it's a good thing, but if, you know, these tech platforms are designed to sort of addict you or addict users, you know, you want to keep them just latched in. And so how do you do that? You do that by giving them something you know that they want. And so if you risk upsetting them or serving them something that they're not interested in or that confronts them or that confuses them, challenges them the way that all great art should or the way that lots of great art can, I should say, you risk losing their eyeballs and then you risk losing your return and your advertising revenue. So it is just kind of casually destructive and. And diminished way to experience music. I think.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I just think we're a little out of balance at the moment. I think I'd wager we're prioritizing a little too much people's own sort of, I mean, what they call the echo chamber or whatever. Right. I mean, as we've talked about, the algorithm sort of favor stuff that you've already said you're into. I think we've, I think we miss a little bit the stuff that we don't think we're into or being fed stuff being presented, stuff that maybe isn't in our orbit. I think we're a little behind on that at the moment.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

This is one of the reasons that we're really leaning into the radio on this, because it's always good to have an example. But for example, I think John Peel, someone quite a lot of people know about how to. Had a late night radio show in the UK and you, you tune in because you knew you were going to get a certain slice of things that you liked. But he would always, you know, you tune in for the Undertones or the Clash or something and he'd play Captain Beefheart in with it and, you know, a bit like the guy in the record store who goes, well, if you like that Ah, you might like this. And I, I remember. I remember that in a record, it doesn't. It's not an exact equation. I remember buying the first Gun Club album and picking it up and going to my friend, he ran the record store and said, this looks really cool. What the fuck is this? He said, well, if you like the Buzzcocks, I think you'll like that. And I was like, okay, I like the Buzzcocks, I'll give it a shot. Well, the Gun Club really is nothing like the Buzzclocks.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah, I don't.

[Ian Summer]

Somehow.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Somehow that's what he said. And I was like, okay, I'll give it a shot. I like the Buzzcock. So, yeah, but it is still an interesting, an interesting conversation. And radio, of course, especially once you get to know a dj and if, you know, you should kind of like their style or like their taste, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna play stuff that you're, you know, an algorithm wouldn't, wouldn't be putting in front of you.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

So

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

it's definitely going to be a big focus for us on this.

[Ian Summer]

What's the radio? I guess just like, as a listener, what's the radio experience like over in Portugal? Because I know in the States here it's pretty captured and can be kind of a tough listen unless, you know, like the exact right couple channels to hit.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I feel like the UK still kind of has. I mean, talking about Portugal clinging to sort of old things that maybe a lot of other places have forgotten. I feel like the BBC and the way they do radio in the UK is still pretty good. I feel like they've been kind of holding on to that sort of tradition better than most here. There's a. There's a station called Oxygenio that I like quite a bit, where you'll hear kind of anything. I've heard all manner of things, but the UK really is still doing it, right.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I think my favorite era of radio was when we had charts, which we still have charts. No one gives a fuck about the charts. People used to. People, if they were driving home on a Sunday night when the new chart came out, would sit outside in their car until it finished, the rundown finished. You know, people used to be really psyched about the charts. We had a show, Top of the Pops, where they would show a number of stuff that was in the charts. What was really awesome for me is that they would have, you know, Althea and Donna, the, you know, uptown top ranking reggae song, right next door to the Buzzcocks doing a punk song and, you know, some, you know, Andy Williams doing a middle of the road song. And they had something for everyone and the families just sort of sit together and, you know, you knew you were sitting there hoping they'd play the Clash or the Buzzcocks or whatever when you're 13 or 14. But this sort of music permeates. And I found over time, it was sort of opening channels of thinking in my brain that I didn't realize were happening at the time. And I think it was a really good experience to bring people together, albeit maybe with their primary focus was on a certain kind of music. But they would have to, or get to get to explore other music just by being there, waiting for what they wanted to come on. And I always thought it was really nice. That kind of fell away in the. When the rave culture sort of collapsed into a dance music by rote. The BBC changed all their formatting and they put all the cool shows onto Radio 6 and their main stations. I think they just have turned into junk, really.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Six is the only place we get played, right, Pete?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, yeah. And they have a bunch of really great DJs. I mean, a lot of them, I would say it's a little bit. I mean, John Peel was definitely a flag flyer because he was part of this big corporation and yet he sort of pretty much got away with doing what he wanted to do. And it certainly wasn't in the name of commercial and being commercial, I guess it was. It was meant to be. It was in the name of being inclusive, which the BBC definitely had a mandate to do as a national broadcasting. But, yeah, things changed a bit on that. But, yeah, I still think radio is. I mean, America is much more differently served than the US I used to love, you know, when we were on tour, searching through for different radio stations and, you know, and listening to them until they faded out and you got out of distance and then you'd find something else. But I particularly liked all the old oldies stations because there were many songs which weren't hits in the uk and I didn't know, so I'd always be sort of. Or things or things that were bigger hits they kept playing. And that format didn't really exist in the uk, so I always like that sort of thing.

[Ian Summer]

US radio is, I think, interesting to think about, especially these days if you're in like a big city. So much of it is like, you know, there's that, like, iheartradio Corporation you guys might have seen. I think they're like just like a radio monopoly, basically. And they're just trying to turn, like, every radio station in every city into, like, the same radio station that's basically just like the top 40 Spotify algorithm. But then in between, you know, and out there in the country, then you do get these sort of. Not outlaw stations or pirate stations necessarily, but like, weirder stations that give you a little more texture and a little more interesting shit to listen to. But you kind of got to go hunting, go fishing for that, because otherwise you just flip on the dial and it's like the same 11 songs across, like, you know, 85% of the channels.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Well, the stations that are supporting us on this record so far, and he supported us really nicely on Reset and not those stations.

[Ian Summer]

Right. Funnily enough, I'm not expecting to hear. To. To hear a question went up there next to the. The Olivia Rodrigo Robert Smith song or the.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

You know, I mean, I'd be very happy, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

[Ian Summer]

So would I. Honestly. I mean, it's catch. It's catchy music, I gotta say.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

The.

[Ian Summer]

The new record is like. Is. Is so kind of. It's funny to hear you guys talk about this stuff and to read, like, the press packet that comes along with it, because obviously there's some. Some heady thought processes that have gone into this music, and you're coming from a, you know, place of cultural critique in many ways, but, like, you just. You put this thing on and it's just. It is buoyant and it is catchy and it is fun. It's, like, funny in some cases. Just like the musical textures are like, you know, one of the songs gets described. Graveyard is described as, like, not dissimilar to the monster mash in the press packet. Can you just talk about making a record that sounds so kind of bright, even in these less than bright circumstances?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I'm happy to hear you say that, but I feel like I should say that all this sort of more conceptual stuff is really at the end of the process. We certainly didn't go into the thing thinking about that stuff so much. It was more sort of. It felt sort of appropriate on the back end of it. Like, on the. On the front end, it was just about as it typically is. I. I would say for us, it was more just about having fun and enjoying each other's company. And a lot of the times when Pete sends me a beat or like a foundation, I just want to make something that's going to get him excited or that that kind of gets him going. You Know what I'm saying? So even though kind of on the back end, there's sort of all this stuff that I'm glad we're considering, but I can't say that that was the intention or the target. When we started, it was more just kind of about having fun and enjoying making songs together.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It's one of those things that when you make an album, you don't. Because, you know, we're creating it piece by piece and there's no way you can go into. Well, you could go in with a concept of I am only going to do this, you know, and people have tried to do the. Who tried to do it famously a couple of times, more or less successfully on some than others. Tommy. I guess they. They definitely went in with a. With an overriding. Although I'm assuming that I don't know that for a fact, but really, I mean, for us, when we're sort of. We're doing stuff and seeing where it goes, and eventually you start to want, you know, trying to figure how it all fits together and. And what. What is the cohesive line? What. What is the overriding statement in the thing? And I think it's. You don't really figure that out until you actually have got the tracks and you start doing it because you. Because even if you have half the tracks, you don't really know the full story. So it's always a really interesting process for me. And for me, I think the sort of. It started to really crystallize with the song, the question of when, which was, I guess, happened about in the middle of the. Might be middle to late in the songs. It might have been the fourth or fifth one. But yeah, it's. It's a really interesting process to do that. And I think we went into it with some ideas and there's a thing that we do where sometimes we'll talk about a concept or I'll name a backing or a loop with a title that really has nothing to do with anything except the idea for a song. And no, actually write the song about that concept just from a one phrase. Title could just be a word. No script. Yeah, no script. Just the concept. Which I think is a really unusual and interesting thing. But so it does. You know, our views and opinions do permeate it. Of course they do. And I think it's. As Noah said, it's only when you finally get to the end of the thing that you really can start to see exactly how it all fits together. How does the story run? Where does it start? Where does it finish. And what's the middle?

[Ian Summer]

Interesting. So did you guys, like, cut, I don't know, a whole grip of tracks, and then look at everything together at the end of the day and decide, like, this. Like, these 10, this is the album. And then this stuff, we're gonna put it over here to the side. Or did you kind of just work your way to a point where you felt like, that's enough, this is kind of what it should be, and then, you know, that ended up being the album.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

We don't have a lot of extras. There was kind of. I want to say one or two other things that we were kind of maybe thinking about, but once we had this group, it felt. It felt like kind of a good, proper group. Proper album.

[Ian Summer]

Sure.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I had. I had a couple of songs where I recorded a vocal on them, and I liked what I had done, but I knew that it wasn't the right vibe. So even. I guess that was probably in the middle of the process. So I already knew, kind of. I already could feel where it was going, and I didn't. I don't think I even ever sent those to Noah. But we started off with a large amount of. Of backings and loops, and I create a lot more. I create a lot of stuff. For Noah to have a good selection, to be able to find things that he finds juicy. I mean, in the same way he says he's trying to indulge me with it, which of course, I love. I'm trying to indulge him. I'm trying to find things that I think will be a spark for him and get induced.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah. On Reset, I'd say there was about three times as many starter kind of pieces, and only a third of them we made into songs. This time, I would say it was about double. There was kind of two times as many considered beats that we just didn't put top lines on or turn into songs.

[Ian Summer]

Makes sense. Yeah. Because Reset was more of like. Well, I guess I don't want to. You guys can. You guys can characterize it. You made the record. But it was, from what I understand, maybe a little bit more of, like, I don't know, kind of it, like, grew out of just some experiments and some hobby making during the pandemic. And then kind of you figured out that this is actually a set of songs that we can turn into an album at a certain point versus this, maybe a little bit more fully conceived, is like, we're gonna make this album and we're going into it with that intention.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I think it Started from a similar place, wouldn't you say so, Pete?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, I would.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

And kind of because of that, I think we started having this conversation about other sort of instruments that might. Or kind of elements that might distinguish it from the reset stuff, because we felt like maybe the process was kind of similar to the point where we might end up kind of in a similar place, and we wanted to kind of push it somewhere new if we could. And when Mary Lattimore was here, because we did a show with Mary in. In Leeds, I think, and I. I've known her for a bit, just kind of. She's one of these people that. That I'll just sort of randomly encounter all over the place in. In a nice way. But she. We played the show with her in Leeds and both really dug the show. And she was playing a show in Sintra, near where Pete lives at this palace. And he. He had. I think Pete, correct me if I'm wrong, he asked her if she would be down to kind of just sort of lay down some recordings real quick at the. Maybe it was the beginning of her sound check there. So all of the harp stuff on the record was done in about an hour, I'd say. Our. Our friend came down to the sound check and recorded a bunch of stuff. And then Pete. I mean, the. The editing and the arranging of that stuff took place over many months after that. But the. The recording of. It all took place in a really brief, brief period of time.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, After. After we met Mary, I sort of kept in touch with her. And then she came over to Portugal. She had a friend, one of her close friends was living here at that time. And so we hung out a bit. And then she said she had this show coming. And I was like, okay, this is. This is too good to be true. You know, let's. Let's see if we can. Because I knew Noah really liked harp stuff. And, you know, when we were initially talking, even before we did that and I was talking with Noah, I suggested that. I thought harp might be a good. Because it's. Because it's percussive, it's rhythmic and it's melodic. And I thought it might be a nice thing and kind of unusual. And Noah has used harp before. I mean, famously on Tropical Cancer. It's an unusual instrument to use in this world. You know, I think we can safely say we're kind of like indie psychedelic pop or something. And it's a little unusual. It's a little baroque for that music normally. And we. I don't know, we started Talking about stuff. And I. Then there was the steel drums kind of came into it in a similar way where I was like, okay, this is melodic, percussive. You know, these things work really well in mixes because they don't. They don't take up a lot of space, but they give a lot of. They give a lot of bang for their buck, if you know what I mean. They're nice instruments to work with in a mix. They're not greedy for space, but they really deliver. So we started out with this sort of idea of this slightly bizarre palette, really, which is always, you know. And, you know, you were talking about. It's something I learned from working with mgmt. Whenever they all cracked up, whenever they did something musically and it made them laugh, I knew it was.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

You know, it's good.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I knew something really good was happening. And so I guess I'd sort of. I think they really. They really focus that thought for me. So now I know whenever I hear something like that stupid keyboard sound on Graveyard, which is an old 50s vowel synthesizer it just has this sort of sneery, leery Halloween quality. I mean, I remember, you know, laughing when Noah started playing that. And the little riffy fans, the. So sometimes that's a really good measure of. If something's. If something's. You know, if it's tickling you, it'll probably tickle other people. That's.

[Ian Summer]

It's so funny you mentioned that, because that was my reaction the first time I heard Graveyard, because it launches right into that little. And I'm expecting, like, a. Like a cartoon skeleton to start, like, dancing or something, you know, in front of me. It also reminded me a little bit of, like, some of the early Lou Reed stuff, like Pre Velvets, like, when he was doing, like, the Pickwick, like, kind of novelty songwriting, like the Oscar. It's so good. And the fact that he could just kind of churn it out and, like, it's so casual but effortless at the same time. I don't know. I just.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It. I love that When Light in the Attic, I had some of those tracks I had, like, why don't you smile? Yeah, the Ostrich.

[Ian Summer]

The Ostrich is so crazy.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I had. I had a few of those tracks on. On an old Velvet Boot from, like, bought in the early 80s. But when light in the Attic put out that whole collection a couple years ago.

[Ian Summer]

Yeah, that reissue.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I was like, damn, fuck me, this is good.

[Ian Summer]

That's the good shit.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It's really. It's really impressive what they did and what I mean, you know, Lou Reed is clearly a bigger part in some of those songs and others, but they're just masterful. The. The soul songs on there are just so good. This sort of pseudo somewhere between Motown and Stats. But, yeah, it was really. Yeah. Yes, it does have that sort of budget hit sound to it. Graveyard.

[Ian Summer]

I love it.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Cheap bin. It's a cheap bin. It's a cheap Ben song.

[Ian Summer]

The nice price.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Sam.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Guide me by horses Guide my fate

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

tonight Be my totem do not.

[Ian Summer]

Can you guys talk a little bit about how your, like, work, just like your working relationship has. Has evolved or like, I guess, has it evolved? Because, I mean, I think the first time you collaborated officially, I think, is Tomboy and then obviously Panda Bear versus the Grim Reaper. But that was a artist with producer type collaboration. And now over the last couple years, we've graduated into, like, this is not just a Panda Bear record produced by Sonic Boom. It's a panda Bear and Sonic Boomer, I guess. How did that shift? Was it just a matter of kind of changing literally the names on the spine of the record, or is there something fundamentally kind of different about the way, say, this album was created versus, like, Grim Reaper?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I think it's fundamentally different insofar as doing Tomboy and Grim Reaper with. With Pete. It was kind of my thing filtered through Pete lens kind of. And I mean, the whole process, we kind of got closer and closer to this point where we're just kind of making stuff together and trying to give something to the other that feels exciting to them or gets them going. But these two records feel far more representative of both of our points of view. I think then in a way that I think is good and cool than. Than something like Tomboy or Grim Reaper, which still feel very much like, kind of like, curated somewhat by Pete, but still feel very much like kind of my side of the fence.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, I think it really. It really grew because, I mean, initially it was. It was really just mixing. And other than the. Other than the crazy angry Hornet keyboard that I did on Tomboy,

[Ian Summer]

I know exactly the keyboard you're talking about, which

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

is not entirely unreminescent of Graveyard in the way that I remember finding that sound. And I'm thinking, I don't know if Noah's gonna like this, but this is. I think it's just totally stupid. So I guess.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Wasn't it one of those really little Korg synths guys? I remember it as one of those, like, really, like, handheld Corg guys. They had the little kind of like. It wasn't a proper keyboard. It was sort of just colored lines on the thing and you would tap it with your finger.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, I can't actually remember what we did. I think it was. Yeah, it. Well, I think it was. It might have been a stylophone, which is kind of a thing like a similar little box like that.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah. With a stylus on it. And I think it's. It's mixed with a synth, mixed with a. It's crossed with a. A Moog synth that MGMT had at the studio that Tomboy album was mixed at Blanket Unsen, which was the MGMT studio in Brooklyn at that time.

[Ian Summer]

Wasn't that keyboard, like, added after the fact also, if I remember correct? Because, yeah, I was a huge.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Like, it wasn't on the single.

[Ian Summer]

Right.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

The exact.

[Ian Summer]

I was buying those seven. I still am a huge animal collective nerd. And so I was going to record stores hunting the pre release 7 inches that you were putting out. No, And I remember the original version of Tomboy.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Thank you.

[Ian Summer]

Didn't have that. And then when the record dropped and that was there, I was like, whoa, this is as great as the song was initially. This is how it should be.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I agree, Sam. And.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Well, and from that, you know, with Grim Reaper, I think Noah opened the. You know, because I was involved in the production of that one, which. Which I really wasn't in Tomboy and. And not needed. I don't think anyone needed to be. I think it. Noah had already really got. Got it together anyway. So, yeah, Grim Reaper, we definitely had a bigger interaction and spent more time in the studio together. And then the reset thing started growing because I had this sort of this crazy idea about. I had this idea about making. I had the idea actually for decades about doing something with loops that were from intros of songs that I loved, where I just heard the first two chords and I was already just away. I thought, okay, maybe it's something interesting to be. To be done with these sort of instant, instant sort of idioms of, you know, this sort of inherited resonances that you get from something, especially when it's been a hit, a big hit, and people just, you know, they recognize it within. Within seconds sort of thing. And I didn't know if he would be into doing it, but that's. That was the reason for seeing if he was down for doing something more collaborative. And then I just thought, you know, he would sing on it, I'd make some backings and do some editing and he would Sing on it. Then he was, you know, very, very encouraging for me to sing as well on it, which was pretty tough for me. I mean, Noah's quite a hard person to sing next to because he has such an amazing voice, and I know that I don't. So thinking that I've got.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I've got.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I've got the sort of voice where you can get by on. You know, I'm there with Lou Reed. We both. We both have a voice you can get by on.

[Ian Summer]

A rich, you know, kind of smoky timbre.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah, no one's. No one's ever gonna mistake me for. For any great singer, that's for sure. But. So that was daunting, but was. Was nice. And I thought, okay, you know, the contrast could be interesting. And then when we tried it, it seemed to work out.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

So.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

And then with this one, I think we. It was even more. I felt it was. I felt I would try and sing with him more. I think I found. I found my voice, which I sort of. For this project, singing this baritone, mostly I sing the low voice, which is something that's probably got more mellow as I've aged. And I think it can work really nicely with his voice underneath it, because it really is in totally different frequencies. Just a sort of. It's a bit like a hovercraft, I think. It's a little bit like. Yeah, it's a fat cushion underneath.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

It's pleasing. It's comforting.

[Ian Summer]

It is pleasing. It is comforting. I almost like another sonic touch point that came to mind here. And this might sound a little crazy, but like Everly Brothers songs at certain points, like, kind of the way that their voices kind of wrap around each other and are very melodic, but kind of come together to create this larger than life sound at the same time, you know, very kind of straightforward and again, like pleasurable music. I don't know. I found a really interesting, unique approach to music making.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

We're trying to be the sort of Everly Brothers on acid.

[Ian Summer]

I think you're succeeding, I would say. What? No, I'm curious. What's the experience? Or, you know, kind of how do you feel about the way that you collaborate and work with Pete, either as a producer or in this case, as a co artist versus the squad from Animal Collective with Dave or Brian or Josh or anyone?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I mean, it's the same and it's totally different. Even within ac the different groupings of people on a given project, it's a wildly different experience. Just because I. And I think if you're doing It. Right. It should be like this. Everybody kind of brings their own sort of perspective and pluses and minuses and interpersonal stuff and stuff that they like, stuff that they don't like, whether it's music or other things. All of these. All of it kind of makes its way in there and you gotta kind of. Not necessarily duke it out, but you gotta synthesize all these perspectives. And so. So whoever you're working with, I'd say if you're doing it right, it's about that kind of thing, like sharing in a way that you feel like the thing is more. More than the sum of its parts. In a way, you're trying to kind of share something with somebody where you. You both end up in a place that you wouldn't have gotten to on your own

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

collective. You've got a really interesting and diverse bunch of creative people, so you would totally expect that. That. You would totally expect that.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

It could.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It could. You could. You could bake a whole load of different ways with those ingredients. But that's how it should be, I think. I think that's what's interesting about making music. You never know.

[Ian Summer]

You never know, indeed. Pete, for you working with Noah, obviously you have had experience on both sides of the coin as producer and co artist. You've produced and been in acts as well. What's unique about your relationship with Noah?

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

I mean, I will say I think everyone I've ever worked with is uniquely different. And that's one thing I really like. And I like to find that as well. I like to go out of my way to do things that are out of an obvious wheelhouse. But, no, it's very open to collaboration. And I think sometimes it's. It's a kind of openness, I think that's sort of inspiring in a way. I don't think. It doesn't make me feel like I can do anything I want because, you know, the whole process is really meant to be something that we both enjoy. And I'm trying to. Again, I'm trying to find. I'm trying to do things that I know will stimulate him and his. His love of sound effects, I think, which I love as well. I think he was seeing much more than I was in. In my career previous to working with him and. But I really love it as well. I love backing sound effects and I would. I would use him in productions and stuff like that, but. So I'm always trying to find stuff that I think that he'll like as well. And this is how we end up with sirens and Formula one races going on. Our songs. Yeah. Because Graveyard has the. The Formula one race in it, which I think is kind of. It's an interesting juxtaposition between the Formula one race and this song about. With a certain acceptancy of death or a certain. What I. What I think the Romans called memento mori, which is this. Keep death in mind. Don't forget about death. It's coming. That's one thing you can guarantee at some point, this is coming. So live your life, you know, work as if you'd live forever, but live as if you die tomorrow. And don't. Don't think this is forever.

[Ian Summer]

That's. That is. That is. Well said.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah.

[Ian Summer]

I love how, like, noisy some of the songs are. You know, between the Formula one stuff, like the sirens, it sounds like there's, like, planes flying overhead at certain points or helicopters or something. It's like. It kind of feels like you're in the middle of this, just like, I don't know, whirling, you know, almost disaster zone at a certain point, but there's still this just, like, perfect little jewel of, like, you know, catchy music that you're, you know, you've sunken into in the midst of this storm going on around you.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I think that's pretty reflective of what it feels like to be alive these

[Ian Summer]

days, to make the music. Exactly.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah. It seems kind of like a mirror to what day to day feels like these days. Or at least I feel like we're trying to point to something beautiful in the chaos. I hope the album does that, because I think it's there. I think it's out there.

[Ian Summer]

Absolutely. No, I think that that's a perfect way to describe what you're going to get on this record. Like the lyrics, the lyric sheet that goes along here. Are you, Noah, kind of the primary writer of. Of the words, so to speak.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

And some of them, the ones that Pete takes lead on, like Lucky Charm, that's all his words. Even though I kind of took what's now the choruses, and I just sort of did, like, an echo of them to be the verses. But that's all. That's. It's. Pete wrote all that. What used to be called Scene, so now it's called Like a Moth to a Flame. That's all Pete. I think there's four songs, three or four that are Pete's and the rest of them are mine. But as. As Pete alluded to earlier, a lot of times he'll be sending me stuff that has a phrase attached to it. Or maybe it's just a title. It could be just a word or a couple words. And I'll. I'll kind of write the song from using that as sort of like the. The seed of the rest of it. So in a way he's got kind of his. There's a bit of his. Of Sonic Boom lyrically. And in all of it, I would

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

say we have a really unprecious. I mean Graveyard was originally backing, which is I was gonna do. And then. And then Noah heard it with the Formula one and he's like, oh, I've got an idea for this.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

And I was like, I did it really fast. I think the whole thing was done and which is really unusual for me that. I mean there's always a. Or there's typically a kind of moment where a lot happens for a song, but it's really rare that I'll kind of go top to bottom with the whole thing like lyrics and everything. And that one, I just sort of really was on one that morning and I think in like an hour and a half the whole. I like, I tracked everything efficient. I was just like, what do you think of this? I just kind of got it done

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

so fast and I loved it and it's so much better than I got. I remember what I was going to do. I put that out of my mind. And the same with Lucky Charm. It was really nice to hear that comeback. And I sort of knew this wasn't my song anymore.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I don't, I don't think that's true. I don't feel that way.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It's true. But I mean I was really happy that about that. And you know, for someone it's not easy. When you're. Most people who are in bands together, they tend to. If they write the words, they tend to voice them and you can't. Not everyone can put. Someone else can. Can put out from their own mouth someone else's words.

[Ian Summer]

Right.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

But you know, it's not always the easiest thing to do. So I mean I'm always really happy when these, these type things work. And yeah, I, I remember when that track came through, I was like, that was before we actually put that. That crazy little keyboard on it. And once we had that on it, I just knew it was comedy gold.

[Ian Summer]

I love how you're talking about this record as if it's like a. Like a stand up comedy set, like Eddie Murphy Raw or something like that.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

The lyrics, those lyrics are really. Because he's talking about death obviously. But it's just done in such A light and humorous way. You know, I got the last laugh, but it wasn't funny. I mean, you know, these lyrics are just like, you know, this is gold. You know,

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

I think a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. So sometimes talking about things in. In a way that's sort of humorous or engaging, entertaining, it's easier to kind of confront things that maybe are more difficult to talk about.

[Ian Summer]

Amen. Is this. I know. I think I know. Reset. You guys didn't like tour or play shows for that record at all?

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

We kind of did kinda, I mean not long tours, but yeah, I guess a lot of kind of one offs like festivals and stuff. But we did I think a week in the US and probably a week in the UK and a week in Europe.

[Ian Summer]

Sure.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Overall and a bunch of festivals here and there in Europe. We were trying to, you know, we were coming out of the lockdown and a. We were trying to move and do what we were doing with as little impact as possible, which we still do. But you know, this is meant to be part of enjoying our lives and the music and the way that we work and deliver it. You know, it's. It's easy in a band to become sort of. And it's the death of a lot of bands, become sort of slaves to touring.

[Ian Summer]

Right.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Is it nice to be able to go out for six weeks and play in 40 different cities? It's very nice for the people who live in those cities. But it's usually more or less miserable experience on, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, it's one of those things where Your day is 12 hours of unenjoyable for an hour on stage where you're enjoying it or. I mean that's a little bit of

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

a

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

slight over exaggeration, but it's a little bit like that. You know, it's hard work and a lot of traveling. You can be touring in the States, you can be sitting in a van moving for six hours every day between shows and it takes a toll. It really does. Somehow that is tiring. So yeah, we try and do it in a way that it's as fun as possible still try and put ourselves around as much as we can and try and play to as many people. So again, we sort of focused on festivals a lot. We did it, we did a run in the, in the US and we did a run in the UK mostly. Other than that, I think it was pretty much festivals.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Some people seem really suited to it, to it and love it and I don't mean to take anything away from those, those people's enjoyment of the thing, but touring for me kind of scrambles scrambled my brain.

[Ian Summer]

Yeah, well you, you just did a big like rock band tour, you know, in quotes I guess. But like, you know, big like you know, a whole Panda Bear band tour across all, all over the place for Sinister Griff last year. So I would imagine you're maybe not like, like trying to get back on the road and do another 50 dates, you know, immediately.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Yeah, and I, I think I bit off a little more than I could chew because I canceled one of the tours sadly. Sorry about that everybody. Yeah, I just kind of broke I guess.

[Ian Summer]

It's hard work, man.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah. And this is. I. I've seen it for years. It does break people and it does break and it's not what it's meant to do and that, that's just counterproductive to everything. So we try not to even go there and you know. Yeah. Equally I apologize that we can't go everywhere to play for everyone in their locale. But you know, we're doing what we can do while still keeping ourselves in a reasonable frame of mind.

[Ian Summer]

You're only human.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

50 50. Whilst we can't be everywhere, we are trying to do as much as we can. We're doing 120 listening parties in the, in the US of course which it would be impossible to, to turn up to them all but you know, trying to do things to get people to go to record stores and support record stores and we're lucky people. We're both artists individually and together where people have always and do buy our records. It hasn't always, it hasn't just been about streaming. I think our streaming income that we'll lose, they told us was probably about 35%, 40% of our income. And I think it's. We just really wanted to try and push ourselves these things like radio and record stores and real life stuff and try and see where it goes really. There's been a hell of a lot of, a lot of positivity and support from people. It's not a. It's not an easy. It's not a straight ride. We did a I'm unfollowing Panda Bear and Sonic Boom campaign through social media and ironically I had more people follow me on that day than any other day.

[Ian Summer]

You blew it.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

It was the biggest post. So.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

So yeah, it's interesting but I guess, I mean make of that what you will really. I mean that might, that might say how. How deep in the Fly trap. We are where. Where people are seeing that and deciding to follow, Follow, follow us based on it. It's quite. It's quite. It's quite interesting, you know, like a moth to a flame.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Right.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

It doesn't really quite make sense.

[Ian Summer]

Indeed.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Why does that happen? Why did. Why do humans or moths do these things? When we can see the consequences, we must be able to see the consequences. Yet somehow, I mean, you could. You could say drug addiction in some ways a little bit like that as well. You could draw that analogy.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Any addiction, really.

[Ian Summer]

Certainly.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Yeah. And even. And even love, you know, you can sometimes people fall in love. Ever falling in love with someone you shouldn't have fallen in love with. Song and, you know, and. And you know, your hormones won't let you realize that you're being sucked in like a moth to a flame sometimes. It's kind of an interesting. An interesting world out there with the social media and stuff, but it's good to have the conversation for sure. And it's very interesting and it's stimulating to do these things for IRL events and stuff. There's a lot more work goes into it, but I have to say, I think it is more satisfying.

[Ian Summer]

Well, I salute you guys both for really kind of putting your money where your mouth is on this one. And even if you're failing to get people to unfollow you, you with your. With your announcements about the campaign, I think that it's. It's a worthwhile cause and a worthwhile effort because, you know, this. This shit is worth thinking about and it's worth paying attention to and it's worth paying for and it's worth, you know, kind of fostering a community around. And I feel like all of those aspects get forgotten about all too frequently in our atomized, individualized little streaming bubbles that we're all occupying every day.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Agree.

[Ian Summer]

Noah, Pete, thank you so much.

[Pete Kember (Sonic Boom)]

Thank you.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Thanks very much.

[Ian Summer]

Thanks again to Noah Lennox, Pete Kimber, AKA Panda Bear. Sonic Boom. A Question of when, available now from the Domino Recording Company. Until next time, we'll see you down in the graveyard on Jober.

[Noah Lennox (Panda Bear)]

Ma. Sar. I.