NES 028: TOAD'S REVENGE

Summary

Never Ending Stories Podcast: Episode NES 028 - TOAD'S REVENGE

Release Date: January 22, 2025
Hosts: Ian, Evan, Steve
Description: Dive deep into the intricate world of Bob Dylan and his legendary performances. In this episode, the hosts explore the infamous 1990 performance at Toad's Place, debunk recent rumors about new albums, engage with listener feedback, and dissect the unique vibe that made this show unforgettable.

---

1. Introduction and Episode Overview

Timestamp: [00:56 - 02:48]

• Ian welcomes listeners to the latest episode, setting the stage for a thrilling conclusion to previous discussions.

  "We are returning to the scene of the crime for the thrilling conclusion to the journey started several months ago here." ([00:58])

• The focus is on Bob Dylan’s performance at Toad's Place in New Haven, Connecticut, dated January 12, 1990. The hosts express anticipation for delving deep into this historic show.

2. Bob Dylan Album Rumors Debunked

Timestamp: [02:48 - 05:45]

• Ian brings up circulating rumors about a new Bob Dylan record, speculating on its nature—ranging from Grateful Dead covers to new studio material.

  "Everyone seems to think there's a new fucking record coming out in the next four to six weeks or something." ([02:48])

• Steve shares insights from a reliable source who unequivocally denies any imminent album releases within the next four months.

  "He said there is no way that there is an album coming out in 2024." ([03:41])

• The hosts express mixed feelings, balancing skepticism with hope, while Evan introduces the possibility that future announcements might still unfold.

  "But, like, with Bob Dylan, who knows, we can't predict what he's going to do." ([04:44])

3. Listener Poll and 2023 Recap

Timestamp: [10:29 - 15:17]

• Ian discusses the results of a listener poll conducted to gather feedback on favorite Bob Dylan shows from the past year.

• Top Five Highlights:

  1. Number 5: Steve’s pick - Infamous Berkeley, California, 2002 show.
  2. Number 4: 2014 Tokyo, Japan performance.
  3. Number 3: Spokane, Washington, 2001 show post Love and Theft.
  4. Number 2: Los Angeles, California, December 1997.
  5. Number 1: Palo Alto, California, October 19, 2014.

• Steve humorously chides Ian for not ranking his favorite show higher, leading to playful banter about their differing opinions.

  "Number one was the same number one that basically all of us had." ([13:24])

• The discussion also touches on lesser-ranked shows, emphasizing that even lower-ranked performances have unique qualities contributing to the podcast's rich tapestry.

4. Deep Dive into the Toad's Place 1990 Performance

a. Vibe vs. Music: A Vibe Show

Timestamp: [35:11 - 37:25]

• The hosts debate whether the Toad's Place show should be categorized more as a "vibe show" rather than a strictly musical performance.

  "This is an amazing text that we have here... It's a vibe show more than a music show." ([02:05])

• Steve elaborates that while individual song performances might not stand out in a traditional playlist, the overall atmosphere and experience of the show make it exceptional.

  "But in the context of the show, it totally works." ([36:23])

b. Song Selection and Covers

Timestamp: [37:25 - 48:47]

• The conversation delves into the eclectic mix of songs performed, including several covers that added a unique flavor to the show.

• Steve highlights specific covers like Bruce Springsteen’s "Dancing in the Dark," noting Bob Dylan’s unconventional rendition.

  "That is the one and only time ever Bob has covered Bruce Springsteen live." ([48:39])

• Evan and Ian discuss the spontaneity of song requests from the audience, leading to unexpected and memorable performances.

  "It's just a series of syllables that bear some passing resemblance to words." ([50:12])

c. Highlights and Grievances

Timestamp: [37:25 - 65:18]

• Ian, Evan, and Steve share their favorite moments from the Toad's Place show, such as:

  • "I Heard that Lonesome Whistle Blow" – praised for its unique rendition and lively performance. ([44:48])

  • "Congratulations" – admired for its stripped-down and raw interpretation. ([47:11])

  • "Where Teardrops Fall" – highlighted as an all-time favorite with emotional depth. ([58:15])

• Grievances include instances where Bob Dylan forgot lyrics or improvisational moments didn’t land as intended, yet these moments contribute to the authentic vibe of the show.

  "He is barely conscious during the performance of this song." ([68:15])

d. Bootleg Titles Suggestions

Timestamp: [72:22 - 76:42]

• The hosts brainstorm creative bootleg titles based on song performances and unique aspects of the Toad's Place show. Examples include:

  • "Tight Connection to My Toad"
  • "Contogulations"
  • "Maggie’s Toad"

e. Host Rankings and Categories

Timestamp: [37:25 - 80:56]

• The trio categorizes moments from the show into segments like "Pretty Good Stuff" and "All Mercy," evaluating each performance's impact and quality.

• Steve assigns ratings based on vibe and musicality, emphasizing the significance of the overall experience over individual song perfection.

  "Three stars for Vibe, one star for music, two stars overall." ([80:55])

f. The Role of the Band and Audience Interaction

Timestamp: [77:29 - 81:59]

• Evan commends drummer Christopher Parker for his stamina and adaptability during the lengthy performance, highlighting the band's crucial role in maintaining the show's energy.

  "Anyone who can play drums to this many songs that he probably had never played before... deserves a nod of the head." ([77:56])

• Steve praises the audience’s enthusiasm, attributing the vibrant atmosphere to the crowd's active participation and support.

  "How much did people pay to get in the door here? And then they get four hours of Bob Dylan up there." ([78:19])

5. Conclusion and Upcoming Topics

Timestamp: [81:56 - End]

• The hosts reflect on the extensive discussion, acknowledging the depth and length of their analysis compared to the original four and a half-hour performance.

  "Collectively. So, you know, we couldn't even make it the total length that Bob and the band did this night 34 years ago." ([81:27])

• Evan and Ian express their admiration for the show's unique place in Bob Dylan's career, emphasizing its blend of chaotic energy and memorable performances.

• Steve nods to the crew and the enduring legacy of such legendary shows.

  "Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Toads." ([81:59])

• The episode wraps up with a humorous sign-off, hinting at future episodes that will continue to explore the rich history of Bob Dylan's performances.

  "See you in the hot tub." ([81:59])

---

Notable Quotes:

• "This show is worth more than the sum of its parts." — Steve ([37:25])

• "It's about what sparks joy." — Evan ([42:50])

• "You can't start a fire with just one spark." — Steve ([53:35])

• "It's a good thing to do. It seems like an act of generosity." — Evan ([52:20])

---

Key Takeaways:

• The Toad's Place 1990 performance stands out not for flawless musical execution but for its unparalleled vibe and the raw, unfiltered interaction between Bob Dylan, his band, and the audience.

• Despite occasional musical missteps, the show exemplifies the magic of live performances where the atmosphere and spontaneity create lasting memories.

• Listener engagement remains a cornerstone of the podcast, with polls and feedback shaping ongoing discussions and analyses.

• The hosts maintain a balance between critical analysis and appreciation for the unique aspects that make each Bob Dylan show a subject of fascination.

---

Upcoming Episodes:

• Exploration of lesser-discussed Bob Dylan performances and their impact on his musical legacy.

• Special bonus episode featuring Benny Boy from Expecting Rain discussing the resurgence of "Idiot Wind" performances.

• Deep dives into specific songs from Bob Dylan’s repertoire, analyzing live renditions and their evolution over time.

---

Stay tuned for more insights and stories from the never-ending journey through Bob Dylan’s storied career on the Never Ending Stories podcast.

Transcript

[Bob]

Take my future on a hell of a p Look like tomorrow is coming on f I ain't completing by what I got.

[Ian]

Hello, and welcome to 2024 and the latest episode of Never Ending Stories, a podcast about Bob Dylan and the Never Ending Tour. I'm Ian.

[Evan]

I'm Evan.

[Steve]

And I'm Steve.

[Ian]

And we are back. We are returning to the scene of the crime for the thrilling conclusion to the journey started several months ago here. I think this was the exact right amount of time, honestly, in between the first part of this conversation and now this second part of the conversation. I'm referring, of course, to the infamous evening at Toad's Place in New Haven, Connecticut, January 12, 1990. Sets three and four. Oh, boy.

[Steve]

And these. And this is like the real Toads. I mean, we got sets one and two were, you know, the appetizer. This is the real Toads. And can I just say, I don't know exactly the day that we're posting. I think we're posting this on the 11th.

[Ian]

On the 11th. Yeah, exactly. Wow.

[Steve]

So we're almost exactly to the day, 34 years later. But yeah, it's amazing. This needs to be commemorated by somebody, this part of the set. Two and a half hours of just amazement.

[Ian]

Good music. It's good music.

[Steve]

Good music, good vibes. You know, I don't want to get too deep into this at this point. I mean, we'll. We'll delve deep into this as we get into the show. But I just want to say, like, there are Vibe shows and there are music shows. You know, there's shows that you listen to and you're like, the music here being performed is so good, it needs to be preserved and revisited. And then there's shows that you listen to and you're like, no, the vibe in the room is what you need to revisit. And I feel like this is a vibe show more than a music show, but maybe I'm just the only one who feels that way. But I. I can't wait to get into this show. This is an amazing text that we have here.

[Ian]

A very rich text. The perfect way to kick off a new year of Neverending Stories. But we'll be there soon enough. Before we do, dive in, a little bit of follow up from some recent things going on in the Bob world or bubbling up in the Bob world, whether or not they actually are going on in the Bob world. Everyone seems to think there's a new fucking record coming out in the next four to six weeks or something.

[Evan]

And they say it's a like a lot of things.

[Ian]

They say it's a Grateful Dead cover record. They say that it's more standards of some sort. They say that it's an all new studio thing we might finally get to hear. You don't say. As alluded to last year. I would love for this to be true. Listen, we would all love for this to be true. I'm a little skeptical of this. And Steven, I think you had a little additional insight to offer here.

[Steve]

Oh yeah. So we have the text chain here that we, we all communicate. It's the, the pulse of our podcast where we're talking about our show and also just Bob Dylan news. And we were like everyone else in Bob world, very excited about the rumors of a Bob Dylan album. I reached out to a source out there who denied this completely. He said there is no way that there is an album coming out in 2024. And I even like throw out the idea, could Bobby doing like a Bob. Like a Bob Grateful Dead covers album or something like that. And this source told me, no, not at all.

[Ian]

For the whole year? Not like hard stop. Nothing.

[Steve]

Well, I'm not going to say the whole year. I'm just going to say the first quarter here like this. The rumors specifically that you're talking about the next six to eight weeks. Because with Bob Dylan, who knows, we can't predict what he's going to do.

[Evan]

Maybe the source was doing lawyer speak and being like, oh, in the next few months. No, definitely not in the next few months. But perhaps, perhaps he was not telling you about something that would happen later on in the year.

[Steve]

Or hopefully, hopefully you're right. Hopefully I'm being lawyered.

[Evan]

That's like a note lie, you know, that's sort of a white lie tactic that he could have used on you.

[Steve]

But again, I. From what I've been hearing for myself and you know, look, if Bob announced a new album the day after this episode drops, I would not be surprised because the man, as we have established on the show, the ultimate wild card, I'm not going to pin him down at all. But the minimal amount of reporting I have done on this suggests that there is not an album on the horizon. I hope that's incorrect, but that's what I've been told.

[Ian]

That's what you got. Thank you for leveling with us all. It's not what we want to hear.

[Steve]

It's a buzz kill. I mean like, so, like, what is the best case scenario here, like with the Bob Dylan trip album?

[Ian]

Triplicate.

[Evan]

Triplicate. To Sex Tuplet.

[Ian]

I honestly think that a great, like, if it is a Grateful Dead covers record or even like if it's like a Dead covers record with some, you know, like, not Fade Away type thing, that's like him covering Buddy Holly and the Dead at the same time. Like a couple of those type of things. Like that could be. That would be amazing to me. I don't know if that's the most likely thing, but like, we already have.

[Steve]

The live recording, so, you know, do we need. I mean, I would love a Bob Dylan Grateful Dead covers album. And in this hypothetical album, it would be covers that we haven't heard yet.

[Ian]

Right.

[Steve]

So maybe he's digging into. You know, I'm just trying to think of like the best case scenario for like Touch of Grace because. Well, because, you know, he's done like all these like early 70s things. Like, do we want him to dig into like 80s, you know, Garcia Hunter compositions or like even 90s, like, do we want him to be covering Liberty songs like that or, you know. Well, he's done like tween.

[Ian]

He's done West LA fade away a bunch in.

[Steve]

Yeah, but that's like 80s. That's 80s. But, like, if we're getting to like 90s.

[Ian]

Oh, okay. Like as late as it gets.

[Steve]

Yeah. That's why I was thinking like Days Between. Actually, days between would be amazing if Bob did that. I don't know.

[Evan]

Terrapin Station. What's that terrible one about, like the. What's. Is that 80s or 90s victim or the crime?

[Steve]

Well, that's Bob Weir. Yeah, Victim or the crime is like Bob Weir and actually like Bob getting into Bob Weir. Yeah, covers.

[Evan]

Like, I want to hear him do Picasso Moon. That's what I want. I want Bob Dylan doing Picasso moon in 2024.

[Steve]

That'd be amazing. Yeah, I mean, it would be. I mean, really, you know, if we're really gonna be again, like Jokerman mindset and if also I can shout out 36 from the Vault mindset. If we can get like 80s and 90s Grateful Dead covers by Bob Dylan, I think that would be an amazing album. I'm kind of less interested in hearing him do like Friend of the Devil and things like that, which he does really well. But we have like live bootlegs of him doing that. If he really kind of went crazy.

[Evan]

Yeah. I mean, if he just did like 30 tracks. Like, if he actually did do a huge triplet size Dead covers record. I mean, what if he did Grateful.

[Steve]

Dead covers in the style of triplicate so they were like Grateful Dead songs, but they were recorded in the style.

[Ian]

Don't Threaten Me with a Good Time.

[Evan]

Yeah, that sounds, sounds great.

[Steve]

That would be the ultimate, I think.

[Ian]

I mean that would honestly be whatever it ends up being if it ends up existing, which again it probably won't. It'll probably sound more like, more like triplicate and that kind of stuff in the rough and rowdy ways palette than anything else. Unless he.

[Steve]

Well, what if like Bob got in the studio with the Dirty Knobs? Yeah, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say the Heartbreakers because I don't want the 48 year old heartbreaker community to say it's not the Heartbreakers. But let's say it's Bob and the Dirty Knobs.

[Ian]

That's right.

[Steve]

And they're doing mid-60s Bob Dylan songs. Like they're doing an EP of like just Highway 61 songs re recorded now. Like maybe that would be the album.

[Ian]

That would be incredible. I, I mean I know he's done, he's done more of those single song one off things with T Bone Burnett, you know, like the million dollar record thing that he sold last year for Blowing in the Wind. Other. Other songs exist in that series and I think those records have also gone out.

[Steve]

Do we have like a well heeled Patreon who bought that? Who could like ship us a copy so we could talk about that?

[Ian]

Let us, if you're out there, if whoever bought that record is in the Patreon community. And you know, I guess it's more likely that that person would be a Patre than your average person on the street. You know, let us know. We would love to liberate the music. We'd love to have you on the.

[Steve]

Show liberate it for the Bob Dylan fan community. You can use us as a conduit for that. I think that'd be amazing.

[Ian]

Keep us posted folks, and we'll keep our fingers crossed on the Bob Dylan album news. We've also got a little bit of talkback from the crew, the crowd, the friends of Tony GE and Charlie out there. Listeners may remember we did our 2023 recap. We also wanted to get some, get some opinions from everyone out there who spent the entire year listening along with us to all of these bootlegs. I sometimes forget that it's not just the three of us that are listening to all of these shows week after week after week, but all of our beautiful patrons out there. So we got the opportunity to run a little poll and get Some feedback on what everyone loved also what they didn't love, which I think is a fun flip side of this coin. But just to run down the top, you can do top five here. I don't need to go through the entire rankings here of listeners favorite shows from the first year of neverending stories. Number five was your pick, Steven. Your immaculate infamous Berkeley, California, 2002 show, which, you know, I think that was a great choice. Everyone seemed to be quite fond of. Number four, 2014 in Tokyo, Japan. That was the one that. That was our first Tony's choice, I believe, which everyone seemed to be quite fond of. Just before the covers records were coming out. Delicious little slice of Bob in the Orient. Number 3, 10, 5, 2001, Spokane, Washington. The first show post Love and Theft. That was one of my picks. Great show.

[Steve]

You picked it. And it wasn't in your top three.

[Ian]

Cause I was trying to be. We went through this. I was trying to be gracious and.

[Steve]

Yeah, but like, you should have put that in your top three.

[Ian]

It would have been in my top three if I had been picking my own shows.

[Steve]

You. You like, sort of out foxed yourself. I think by not putting that in your top three, you're like, I'm gonna be a gentleman, which I don't even know why you need to be a gentleman.

[Evan]

Yeah. Also, you're making us not seem like gentlemen.

[Ian]

Well, I mean, I'm the one that. I'm sitting. I'm sitting here in a suit and a tie and loafers and stuff.

[Steve]

I put Berkeley at number one for me. Like, I don't give a shit about being a gentleman. We're just picking the best shows.

[Ian]

I'll keep this in mind this time next year.

[Steve]

I just feel like your sort of idea of chivalry here is misplaced is all I'm saying.

[Evan]

This white knightism that you.

[Ian]

Yeah, not the first time I've been told that, brother. Anyways, great show. Number three, Spokane, Washington. Number two, 12, 1997, Los Angeles, California. The very first show of Neverending Stories. Way up there. I feel like we picked a great show to start it off with. Everyone seemed to agree. And of course, number one was the same number one that basically all of us had. 10, 14, 19, Palo Alto, California. Just a unanimous sweep through the rankings of everyone with that selection, Steven. So well done.

[Steve]

Yeah. And it's interesting because I'm looking at the shows beyond the top five and right outside the top five was the Tokyo show from 2016, which crazily was two years to the day after the show from the 2014 show that was at number four. And then like the Milwaukee shows that we talked about from this year made it. I mean, it just goes to show that like this is an historic Bob Dylan podcast, but like people are really loving like the more recent Bob Dylan shows.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. 2014 is up there. 2016 is up there. 23 is up there. Obviously 2019 at the tip top, wanted to just run through the bottom of the barrel. Also, it's worth noting just with the least votes for all of them. It was a four way tie down at the very bottom. That would be 1988's Mansfield, Mass. One of our Tony's choice. But that was a great show. The Milan, Italy show from 1993 with Steven's favorite crowd member hooting and hollering all the way through.

[Steve]

Oh, that's the one I wanted to assassinate.

[Ian]

Yes, that's the one you wanted to kill. 2008, Worcester, Mass. Another one of our Tony's choice picks, but a sentimental favorite. And down there at the very bottom, I choose to believe this was absolute last place with a bullet, even though it came in in a four way tie. April 24, 1992, Waikiki.

[Steve]

Yeah, but you know what, I'm glad we did that.

[Evan]

It really added texture to the year. Added some color, some grit. You can't, you know, you can't even appreciate the sun without the darkness of the night.

[Steve]

And we're going to pull some more darkness shows. Darkness shows this year. I really believe in the occasional, you know, turd in the punch bowl type show. I mean, we need to have that. And I think we all are on the same page with this. That, like that, that Waikiki show had moments that we loved.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

And like you, like, like. And this is gonna tie into like when we get into toads here. There are terrible moments in this toad show that I, that I love that are just brilliant. And if you're just gonna listen, like, we could just do a show where it was like 97 to 2002. We could do. There's tons of great shows from that.

[Ian]

Period after hit after hit, you know.

[Steve]

But like it would get boring. Like we need to delve into the dark areas to feel alive sometimes.

[Ian]

I agree. In the show, I think that, you know, I think that the highs and the high, the highest of the highs is thrown into sharp relief when it, when it has a lowest of the low to compare it against. I mean, the Waikiki show is fun too because that was literally two weeks before the infamous San Jose show, which Stephen so fond of, which also people didn't actually seem to love. It's pretty low on the rankings also.

[Steve]

Yeah, that only got four votes.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Because that was in my top three, and I totally stand behind that. We're. We're definitely gonna revisit 92.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve]

This year. I love 92. Like, our boy Benny Boy, actually, he just dropped a, like, mix on Expecting Rain of, like, Idiot Wind, like every idiot wind from 1992.

[Ian]

Wow. I didn't see this.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah. So I'm planning to download that. I don't know. We might have to do a bonus.

[Evan]

Well, why don't we just do an episode on that that's like. I mean, Benny Boy is doing things that I don't even think we knew we needed to talk about. But a complete countdown list of every IDIOT win from 1992 seems like something that we would be foolish to avoid.

[Ian]

I remember the Idiot wins that we talked about from those 92 shows were a little. I don't think that they were one of the crowd favorites here. I think there was some disappointment in the shambolic nature of a lot of those performances.

[Evan]

That's why we want to hear all of them.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly.

[Evan]

Just the return of Idiot Wind is like, such a. An interesting thing to me to know what that was like as a big picture, as an attempt that, like, Idiot Wind was suddenly back in the rotation.

[Ian]

It's back. Why Idiot win.

[Evan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve]

Like, yeah. This epic song that he hadn't played since 76. He brings it back in 92 and plays it a bunch. And yeah, there's like, some train wrecky versions, but I trust our boy Benny Boy that he is uncovering some masterful versions. So I think we need to get that compilation and find our favorite versions of Idiot Wind. And I'm confident that those favorite versions will be incredible.

[Ian]

Let's. Let's do it. You know, let's get Benny Boy on himself we've been talking about.

[Steve]

Yeah, we got. Yeah, we got Benny Boy Expecting Rain legend. Yeah. If you will grace us with his presence, it'd be amazing to have him here.

[Ian]

That's. We'll put that on the list here. I didn't realize. I'm looking back at it now, but I guess I did realize, but I had just forgotten that he did. Bob did just bring idiot win back for 92 only and then Gone hasn't been played again since. Since August 30th of that year. That is just fucking wacko.

[Steve]

76. 92.

[Ian]

That's it. That's it.

[Steve]

Yeah. And who knows? Maybe 2024 could be the intermediate wind. You never know.

[Ian]

You never know. We are in the last year. I wanted to say something about that earlier when we were talking about the new record. We are also. It's just worth remarking on noting, right? We're in the last year of the Rough and rowdy Ways tour. 2021 to 2024. This is it, boys. 12 months from now, a year from now, the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour will be finished, kaput, consigned to history and the past for good.

[Steve]

Well, assuming that he doesn't launch a new tour this year, maybe he's gonna do a Dirty Knobs Tour, which has been rumored out there. You know, maybe he'll do like, a Summer Shed Tour with the Dirty Knobs. Maybe he'll do like a Bob Weir tour.

[Ian]

Sure.

[Steve]

This is not rumored. It's just something that I have, like, imagined him doing, like a. Like a co. Bob Dylan. Bob Weir tour.

[Ian]

Maybe he'll do a stand at the Sphere there in Vegas.

[Steve]

Oh, my God. Don't tempt me with a good time, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't know. I mean, I. I refuse to believe, as has been reported by, like, what was that reported? That, like, he was gonna be retiring, wasn't it?

[Ian]

I think it was Rolling Stone, wasn't it?

[Steve]

Yeah, but, like, I feel like they picked it up from, like, some, like, real estate magazine or something. It was like a really kind of weird source anyway. We don't need to speculate. We don't need to, like, throw out more rumors into the wind.

[Ian]

Everyone just keep your eyes peeled on bobdylan.com for those tour dates because this might be the last round, at least of Rough and Rowdy Ways shows that you might be able to sign up for.

[Bob]

And I would send a message to find out if she. These town.

[Ian]

Let's. Let's unlock the mailbox. We got a whole new batch of questions here from our lovely listeners. And thank you all for not giving us too many Mary Kills this time. There were still a couple.

[Steve]

No more. No more Kills. I'm sorry, we. We got to pause on that. It's a fun format, but, like, we've done that to death. I feel like at this point they.

[Ian]

Are firmly on pause for the time being. We've got a fun one to kick off this latest round, though. This is going to be an Airing of Grievances segment of sorts new year, an opportunity to get some. Get some of our grievances off our chest. What is the worst Dylan take held by your co hosts, asks listener Mark, who wants to go first?

[Steve]

Why are we going here?

[Ian]

Is this too explosive?

[Evan]

It's the beginning of the year and we're already being made to be pitted against each other. And I mean, obviously I'll just. It's low hanging fruit, but I mean, I don't even know if it's. It's maybe evolved at this point. But, you know, I famously. I don't think Steven has really. He's given short shrift to my favorite of the material, which is the. The standards era records. But.

[Steve]

Well, but I acknowledge. I acknowledge that I have not caught up to it. Like, I. I don't think. I know.

[Evan]

That's why I don't think that it's really fair for me to even say that. That's what's. What's like a. I feel like, Ian, you've had like a song that you hated that I. I didn't. At some point we must have disagreed about the song being good.

[Ian]

The song that I hated that you loved.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Ian]

I mean, the easy one for me, for you, is the Desire Slander.

[Steve]

Which, yeah, I was gonna say, like the desire thing. That's like one of the things that.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Steve]

You know, if we're like Israel and Palestine here, watch out. That's like one of the lingering resentments out there. Like the third rails that we don't touch.

[Evan]

Well, that said Neighborhood Bully, still the worst song. It's gotten. It's. It's even worse.

[Ian]

Even worse. Yep.

[Steve]

Yeah. But like, but Ian, I didn't know that you were also feeling the desire because, like. Because Evan. Evan is just like, oh, it's all about the hats, you know.

[Ian]

Desire is not my favorite record by any means. And I do think that it's easy for some people to overrate it. Obviously it goes along with the incredible, like, looks and images and the romance.

[Steve]

Well, some people like me, who put it in this top 10 Dylan Elms of all time.

[Evan]

I was asked about this though. The other day someone asked me, well, think about this. There's a five minute version of Joey that he played on. I forget which show, maybe does. He doesn't play Joey on Toads, does he?

[Ian]

Sure does.

[Evan]

Okay.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Evan]

That's what they're referring to. They were like, he plays a five minute Joey on Toads, and if he were to have played a five minute Joey on the album, there would have been room for.

[Ian]

Abandoned Love Seven Days.

[Evan]

Which, if that record had Abandoned Love on it, I would. I think that I Would concede that it's as good as everyone says.

[Steve]

I love the idea of the five minute Joey. I love the five minute.

[Evan]

Five minute Joey getting it out.

[Ian]

Yeah, it's usually. It's 12 minute tangled. It's 10 minute joker man. It's 15 minute. It ain't me, babe. But with Joey, it's the exact opposite.

[Steve]

Yeah. We're shrinking down Joey.

[Evan]

And it's an experiment we could do. I wonder if, like, the Joey section in the Irishman or the song Joey, which one is longer? Like, does what. Does that actually take up more screen time than the actual song?

[Steve]

Well, in the film, I think the song Joey Undesire takes up more real estate than the Joey section and the Irishman because, like, Joey on the album is like 10 minutes long and it's like a 60 minute album. So we're talking like, you know, a good. What is that, 12% of the record.

[Evan]

Yeah, but the Irishman's like three hours long.

[Steve]

Yeah, but that's what I mean, Steven saying proportionally. Proportionally, it's like a way bigger part of the record. Yeah. Otherwise I was gonna say, like, the basement Tapes. I feel like that was.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Steve]

One of the foundational things even before we came together on Never Ending Stories and it was guests on Jokerman. I feel like me being angry with you guys about the Basement Tapes.

[Ian]

I remember that conversation and thinking like, this is. This is a disaster. This guy hates us. He no one want to come back again.

[Steve]

Absolutely not.

[Evan]

It was spirited disagreement.

[Steve]

It ended up being a foundation of our friendship, I think.

[Ian]

Absolutely.

[Steve]

Me being upset about your take on the basement Tapes, that's why I don't even want to revisit it. I feel like, again, this is like the Israel, Palestine part of our relationship.

[Evan]

You can find out, like, you think you're on the same page as somebody. You both voted for the same person. You both see everything eye to eye. And then it gets to the issue of clothesline saga, and you find out that this. And you find out that this person has nothing in common. And you.

[Ian]

A very questionable Instagram story pops up one day about clothesline saga, and you send it to your friends. You're like, did you know this guy?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Evan]

Tiny Montgomery actually did nothing wrong.

[Steve]

Or it'd be like me. Or if I'm reversing it, it would be like me reading, like, oh, like Richard Manuel's vocal on Tears of Rage with Bob Dylan is, like, not as powerful as you thought it was. Like, it's like, not that great. Yeah. So I just feel like that's something we don't need to even talk about on this show. Like, we. You know, I don't want to. That's, like, the negative vibes with us. So I feel like. And I would never describe that as, like, the worst take. I would never describe something you guys say is worst take. We'll be like, the take that most upsets me is the way I would describe it. What's the.

[Evan]

Maybe we can just democratize this. Like, what's a take that. A take that you see that you don't like? Like, maybe instead of pointing, doing a Mexican standoff with each other, we can just fan this out for a moment.

[Steve]

It'd be the basement taste for me. And I would say, like, your defense of, like, Roll On John.

[Evan]

I'm saying that. I'm talking about. Can we say anybody but us? What's another take from out in the world that you don't like?

[Ian]

Evan wants the guns to be three of us.

[Evan]

We can. We can turn our.

[Steve]

Well, there's so many. I just feel like I. I think getting it, you know, you want to.

[Evan]

Get into Roll On John thing. I mean, that's a take that I.

[Steve]

But we don't have to get into it. I'm just saying, like, basement taste for me and Roll On John for you guys would be, like, the central conflict that we don't need to debate right now. Yeah, but it's the central sort of disagreement.

[Ian]

I think this whole conversation is instructive and illustrative of the fact that we're actually all, like, pretty much aligned, to be honest. There's, like, a couple sore thumbs that stick out here and there, but it's.

[Steve]

Good to have the sore thumbs. Of course I appreciate the sore thumbs. I appreciate your not loving the basement tapes, even though I think it's crazy.

[Ian]

I have come around in the basement tapes. Let me just.

[Steve]

And the Roll On John thing, I totally appreciate, even though I don't understand it, you know? So this is how you have friendships. You know what?

[Ian]

I don't think if we have talked about this. I forget. I'm sure we have talked about at one point. What's your. What's your new Morning take, Stephen?

[Evan]

Oh, yeah. Geez. Geez.

[Steve]

I love New Morning.

[Ian]

Okay. All right. That's Stephen's worst take. He loves New Morning.

[Steve]

Yeah. You don't love New Morning?

[Evan]

No, I infamously.

[Ian]

Odds and ends.

[Evan]

I mean, I. I kind of. I think it's his worst studio album.

[Steve]

Oh, my God. Okay, well, we need to, like, table that for a separate episode.

[Ian]

That's a whole other thing.

[Steve]

Episode where you guys think. And are you on that page too, Ian? You think it's his worst studio record?

[Ian]

I wouldn't say worst, no. But I would say, you know, definitely down there towards the bottom.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah.

[Evan]

It's. It's limp.

[Ian]

Of the two studio records that came out in 1970, new morning, far and Away the Lesser Clunky.

[Steve]

So are you. So are you positioning this as, like, oh, he's apologizing for self portraits, so I don't like it as much.

[Evan]

Well, it's sort of like.

[Steve]

Do you feel like he's pandering to people?

[Evan]

Yeah, I mean, the short story is just that the fact is that a lot of those songs were written for, like, an aborted play collaboration.

[Ian]

It's half pandering and then half. Archibald McLeish reject.

[Evan]

Yeah. That he just had kicking around. And then it's like. Well, I. I also want to just make something that looks like I'm making a real album. So I'll call it New Morning, and it's gonna be, like, sophisticated adult me. But the fact that it's kind of just not. It's piecemeal and thrown together and not in the way that's, like, fun and haphazard like Self Portrait. It's done in a way that's more like pawning something off.

[Steve]

Man and the man and me. That's a pretty joyless sounding song.

[Ian]

Six songs on the record. Man and Me, if not for you, obviously.

[Steve]

Dana Locusts, those.

[Ian]

Fantastic.

[Evan]

Perfect. Perfect song.

[Steve]

If not for you, if not for you. Pretty joyless sounding song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Evan]

The actual vocal on New Morning. Pretty Not a great.

[Steve]

Okay. Okay. This is gonna be okay. So let's set this aside for a separate episode. We. We're gonna address the New Morning ish, like, issue in, like, a bonus episode coming up ahead, because.

[Ian]

Sounds good.

[Steve]

I feel. I feel like I need to, like, consult with my lawyers and, like, we'll.

[Evan]

We'll get a. Yeah, we need.

[Steve]

Before we.

[Ian]

We're putting. We're putting New Morning up on trial. Stephen is going to be the da. Evan and I are the vicious prosecutors. And. Yeah, we'll see.

[Steve]

No, no, no. You're the defense lawyers who have this, like, criminal.

[Ian]

I say.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah. Your take is, like, a Jeffrey Dahmer type criminal that you have to find a way to defend. I just, like, want to march because I feel like my take.

[Ian]

Menendez brothers with our.

[Steve]

Yeah, like, my side is much easier to come up with. But anyway, yeah, we need. We need to get into the rest of Toads here.

[Evan]

Yeah, we haven't even talked about Toads.

[Ian]

We need to start dancing in the dark.

[Evan]

We just had a giant smoke break in between Toads and Toads Part two. And now we're wobbling ourselves back in to the. Totally to the center of the dance floor.

[Steve]

That would be it. Because it's like you've had two sets and like we're outside of toes in.

[Evan]

1990 screaming at each other and like.

[Steve]

People like, are smoking us up. Like we have like multiple people smoke us up outside and we're just drinking. We're drinking, we're. We're smoked up. And now we're going to go for two and a half hours more of Bob.

[Ian]

Oh, man, in the show.

[Evan]

What was the weather this night? I don't think we talked about it.

[Steve]

We did in like our last Toads episode.

[Ian]

Cold, I think. Pretty cold.

[Bob]

Imagine.

[Evan]

Yeah, kind of. You're bundled up outside of Toads, can't wait to get back in. I know it smells crazy in there in Toads.

[Ian]

And I shout out to a friend of the pod, Ian O'Neill, who dropped a little knowledge on us last time when we talked about Toads. I just want to make sure everyone's aware of this this time. Apparently there is a hot tub in the green room of Toads.

[Evan]

Oh, man, I spoke too soon.

[Ian]

When Ian saw it, I believe he said it was filled up and no longer in use. But I want to believe that on this fateful night here in January 1990, Bob and GE and Tony and Christopher Parker were just soaking in between the sets before, after, just. Just moist. Just sopping wet up there on stage.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean, under normal circumstances, I'd be like, oh, Bob would not include himself in the hot tub for this show. I think he. This would include himself.

[Ian]

He's in hot tub mode in this show. And this night, man, this guy, he's. He's in the tub.

[Steve]

Yeah, he's loose as hell in this show. So, like, I think he probably was in the hot tub for sure.

[Ian]

I also just like to register that. I'd also just like to register that. Apparently, who knows that this is true? Because this again, 34 years ago. But on Setlist FM, the set times for this show, someone says that the show started at 8:45pm and remember, it's like a four and a half hour show. We're getting into the second, third and fourth hours at this point. So by the time that we're gonna be done with the section that we're talking about it's literally approaching like two for everyone there in New Haven that night, Bob Dylan playing until 2am I just like, man, this would have been the best fucking night of my life if I had been here.

[Evan]

Yeah, well, that's the impression I get. I mean, basically it feels like Bob Dylan during this whole thing is doing and treating this show like karaoke. Like on New Year's, I ended up just at my friend's place in his, like, little studio with a drum kit, and we just did karaoke till 5am and played drums for each other while other people were doing it. And the choices that were being made, the songs that were being pulled out, it was like, you know, pandemonium. It was very fun. And I had the insight in the midst of this that Bob Dylan is treating this show like that type of situation. Like, he's like, that confidence you get when you just are doing karaoke and it's 3:50am yeah.

[Steve]

My experience with this show was, and this happened every time I listened to it, especially like this part of Toads where I would start listening to it in the first song, I'd be like, oh, man, I don't know if I can make it through this show. Like, I'm not really feeling this at all. This doesn't sound good. And then by the third or fourth song, I'm like, I'm totally locked in.

[Ian]

It's good.

[Steve]

And then by the fifth or sixth song, I'm like, I don't want to stop this. Like, I want to. I'm going to ride this out for the whole two and a half hours. And this, you know, connects to something I said earlier, like a music versus vibe show. And I think this is a total vibe show. And what I mean by that is, you listen to the show, we're going to get into, like, oh, mercy. And like, you know, the things we liked and things we didn't. And for me personally, it's really hard to sort of distinguish great from bad in the show because I really feel like this show is worth more than the sum of its parts. Like, if you were going to make a Never Ending Stories playlist of, like, the best live tracks from shows we've talked about. I feel like if you took a live track from this show and put it on a playlist, it wouldn't work.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Because it would feel like a total just like clank or like a record scratch type thing. But in the context of the show, it totally works.

[Ian]

I know what you mean.

[Steve]

And the songs build on top of each other. And you really need to hear this whole show as a show. And it's funny because, like, we split this into two parts, which maybe purists wouldn't be in support of, but I really feel like this part of the show, starting with Total Connection to My Heart, you know, that's. As the first song. It's like this part of the show, I think, really kind of works as its own thing from, like, the first part of Toads, because the first part of Toads is, like, chaotic and crazy. And, you know, we talked about it in that episode, but, like, this is, like, where things get really chaotic. And it's almost like a replacement show at some points because it's like Bob's doing, like, covers, and we're gonna get into, like, some of the crazier covers. But it's amazing, too, because he's doing, like, War Horses, too. He's doing, like, Stuck Inside a Mobile, which is, like, a song that I've talked about in other episodes. Like, I don't really love live versions of it. Yeah, I love the live version of it in this show. I love the Maggie's Farm where he's, like, literally cackling during the beginning of it. You know, it just feels like some of the overly familiar songs that he's playing because of the vibe of the show. It. It just feels like it gets a new life because it doesn't feel like it's professional even. It's just like, we're just fucking around. We're rehearsing here.

[Evan]

Well, it's a reverse all across the board because, like, people are surprised to hear a song they know in the midst of all these other ones. Like, he. The. The ratio is pretty crazy of, like, covers and just not anything, you know. Like, people. You can hear people talking and they're like, is this going to be an old one? An old one? Maybe an old one.

[Ian]

I like the guy who's shouting for Joker man halfway through.

[Evan]

There's always one.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Evan]

But then there's, you know, mostly not old ones. So, like, when one actually hits that, everybody in the room knows. It feels like like someone just played Mr. Brightside at a bar mitzvah. It's, like, huge.

[Ian]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I honestly think that this is. Is good, full stop. It is a good show to listen to, and it makes the most sense listened to in sequence, I think, all at once. I really enjoyed just kind of having this on in the background and going about my life. And then I would tune in and out, and all of a sudden I'd Be hearing the third version of Political World on this set. But it's like a. It's less. You're totally right about that, Steven. When you said, like, songs from this wouldn't make sense in a playlist. Right, because it would sound like a clunker compared to, you know, fucking. Just pick anything from any of the other shows that we've ever talked about, basically. But on its own, within this weird alternate dimension that is. New Haven, Connecticut, on January 12, 1990. It's like a radio drama or like a play or a. Tell it like a. Like you get a sense for, like, where Bob is at individually, you know, at this moment in time. Both from the song choices and from the performances and from the lyrics that he does, or more often does not remember. And even right down to the Bob talk, he's very talkative. By the time we're getting to this second set with some just incredible lines we'll cover. I just. It is such a great. It's such a great hang, you know, and so few Bob shows, especially in the later days, are great hangs. They're incredible shows with incredible music. But it's not. It's not the kind of thing where Bob is just there to fuck around and have a good time with whoever happens to be in the room.

[Bob]

There must be some way outta here.

[Steve]

Watchtower. Check. There's no Watchtower.

[Ian]

No Watchtower? No, not this time. Was that on the first. Was it on the first Toads or the first half of Toads? I forget now.

[Steve]

We need to check that. We need to get our.

[Evan]

I believe.

[Ian]

Let's go to the. We'll go to the record here. Toads place.

[Evan]

It is, isn't it?

[Ian]

It is not. It is. It's the last song. It's literally the last song.

[Evan]

Track 20.

[Ian]

So actually it's the first song that. Or Tight Connection to My Heart is the very next song after Watchtower. At least we got that out of the way. Don't need to worry about it. But what about the pretty good stuff from Toad's sets three and four?

[Bob]

Pretty good stuff?

[Ian]

All of it? Every song.

[Steve]

Well, I mean, again, I think, like, in this show, I think distinguishing between great and bad, it's almost irrelevant because it's. As we've established, I think it's about.

[Evan]

The vibe sparking joy. It's about what sparks joy.

[Steve]

And it almost reminds me of, like, listening to, like, a replacement spotleg from, like, the 80s, like, where, you know, they're just doing, like, replacement songs that are transcendent and then they go into, you know, build Me a Buttercup, and then they go into, you know, fox on the Run, and it's like these drunken covers that, like, might finish or might not finish. And you don't really care if how well performed it is, because it's just about being in the vibe of the show. And, like, you know, like, when we listen to bootlegs, I. I mean, I've talked about this before. Like, sometimes you're listening to the music and sometimes you're listening to the room. And I think the room part of a bootleg is really underrated. Like, you want to be transported to, like, this environment at a particular moment in time. And with a show like this, it's like, you don't want everything to be performed perfectly. Like, the. The fact that things are kind of chaotic is what makes it so fun to revisit. And that's, like, what we love about this show. I will say, like, in terms of pretty good stuff. I mentioned this already. Like, some of the war horses I found myself really loving. Like, Maggie's Farm stuck inside a mobile. Songs that I'm sort of sick to death of hearing on other tapes that we've listened to. Like, I really liked it here. And, like, on Maggie's Farm, like, there's, like, an audible, like, laugh from Bob as he's, like, tearing into it. It's, like, so fun to hear him seemingly enjoy playing that song. I really love, like, a lot of the covers that he's doing here. Like, one song I want to call out in particular is I Heard that Lonesome Whistle Blow.

[Ian]

Oh, it's fantastic.

[Steve]

Which I think is great.

[Ian]

Hank Williams.

[Bob]

Radio.

[Steve]

Yeah. And just the rendition of that. And it's so cool. And I don't know if, like, Bob is doing this or G.E. smith, but, like, there is a recurring riff in that song where it sounds like someone is playing, like, I'll Feel a Whole lot Better by the Birds. Like, that riff from that song. Someone is, like, sort of teasing that throughout that song. And, you know, like, Tom Petty covered that on Full Moon Fever around this time. So I don't know if that, you know, it was in the imagination because of that. But, like, that in particular, I really love, like, as a cover in this set, that really stood out to me.

[Ian]

Yeah, I think the covers are the story. The story of the show here on the second half of Toads and Lonesome Whistle There. I totally co sign fantastic. That run that you get there from tracks like 9 to 12, I think is really one of the hearts of the show. All of which are covers to some extent, depending on how you want to look at one of the songs. Congratulations. Dancing in the Dark, Lonesome Whistle, and then Confidential. I mean, we just. We gotta talk about dancing.

[Steve]

Before we do that, though, can I just say, like, the Congratulations cover.

[Bob]

I lay alone in my bed with the visions of you running around.

[Evan]

Yeah, okay, well, cover.

[Ian]

He's covering cover. Quote, unquote, cover.

[Steve]

Not a cover like, you know, the Trevor.

[Ian]

No, it is sort of a cover.

[Evan]

It's a great song. I mean, like, it's good.

[Steve]

But then he starts, like, he kind of laughs that someone wants him to play that. And then the version that he plays is, like, better than the version on the record.

[Ian]

Yep.

[Steve]

Like, I. I love the version on the record, but, you know, it kind of has that Jeff Lynn very kind of polished sheen. It has, like, the Coral vocals, chorus.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Steve]

And to hear it so kind of stripped down and raw, I was like. I feel like I have a new appreciation of this song totally because of this rendition. So, anyway, yeah, the. The Congratulations cover, again. I keep saying cover, but, like, the.

[Ian]

He's covering Lucky Wilbury.

[Steve]

The rendition of it, I think, is so good. But, yeah, the Dancing in the Dark. Yeah. We have to talk about this. The Bruce Springsteen cover.

[Ian]

The one and only time ever. I believe that Bob has covered Bruce live. And obviously Bruce has covered Bob live dozens and dozens of times. Tons and tons of different Bob songs. But I believe this is literally the only time ever Bob has repaid the favor.

[Bob]

I got the stop to just see, you're getting it out easy.

[Steve]

And it's so fascinating whenever Bob engaged, engages with Bruce Springsteen, because I think he, you know, appreciates Bob. He appreciates Bruce Springsteen. He thinks he's talented. But there's always this kind of element where you feel like, is Bob taking the piss?

[Evan]

Well, here in this case, it's like, do you really think he doesn't know the lyric? Like, he. He basically knows or he doesn't know.

[Ian]

The lyrics to his own songs in this show. So, yes, I think he doesn't know the lyrics to dance.

[Evan]

I guess so. But I think there's, like, an extra thing of, like, him just being like, I am fully okay with just making shit up here. Because, like, if you actually. It would be really funny to try to transcribe what he's saying. It's absurd. Like, it is absurd. I was trying to do it earlier.

[Ian]

It's a fool's game to even try to parse the language here. It's. It's just a series of syllables that bear some passing resemblance to words at the end. Oh, but he's deciding the phrase dancing in the dark, it reminded me nothing of nothing so much as Bono at the end of Slain. Do you guys remember that when. When Bono came out and started. Just how many newspapers, exactly how many fucking newspapers must the newsman sell or whatever, where he just is completely off the map, has no. No connection to reality whatsoever. But honestly, like sort of sells it just through commitment. On the Bono version of Blowin and then this, I guess this version of Dancing from Bob.

[Steve]

How many times must the bombs may last?

[Ian]

How many times some people cry? How many newspapers must we read before we go to sleep?

[Bob]

Hours of the treasure pass.

[Evan]

Yeah, I mean, generous, Honestly, he knows 20% of the lyrics here, and he does it anyway. And it's like everyone is so happy, it just doesn't matter. And I think that counts as a good deed. That's just a good. It's a mitzvah. It's a good thing to do. I mean, it seems so. I don't even know if I was there, like, would I even understand till he started singing. Like, even if I understood that he was playing the song, I just wouldn't expect him to do this. So, like, it's such a. An act of generosity to the crowd that he would even. This is him playing Mr. Brightside, you know, basically.

[Steve]

Absolutely, yeah. And there is an element to the performance and this connects back to the vibe part of the show where there's an exuberance to the performance where, yeah, like, he doesn't know the lyrics and like, the band sounds very under rehearsed, but like, the crowd is so into it and the band is so spirited that it totally works like it is a train wreck. And also, like, when they play that riff, the dancing in the dark riff, I. I listen to it and I find myself feeling exhilarated, you know, like 10ft tall. Yeah, like this works. You know, it totally works. And like. And you reference this, Evan, like his. I don't even. I don't know if I want to say Dylan rewrote the lyric or misremembered the lyric, but like, you can't start a fire with just one spark. I kind of like that.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Revision Bob did it better.

[Steve]

I'm not gonna say he did it better.

[Evan]

I think he says just a spark, though, which doesn't make any sense, but.

[Steve]

Yeah, like you can't. Like you could start a fire with just a spark.

[Evan]

We need more sparks in here. It would be a foolish thing to Start a fire with only one spark?

[Steve]

Yeah, like, because, like, theoretically, Bob, in terms of, you know, the physics of starting fires, one spark could start a fire.

[Ian]

That's absolutely all that you need.

[Steve]

But, you know, he's just saying, realistically, you probably need one more than one spark.

[Evan]

He's saying, live. Live moss. He's saying we need to live la vida loca. We need to have more than just one spark up in here.

[Steve]

So, like, on my own outline here, I was trying to decide whether to put Dancing in the Dark in O Mercy or in Pretty Good Stuff. Like, where are we putting it? We were pretty. Okay. Okay. I'm fine with that.

[Ian]

Undoubtedly.

[Steve]

I don't think. Undoubtedly. I think. I think there's. Again, I think there's many moments in this show that you could conceivably put in pretty good stuff or in All Mercy, but I'm fine putting it in Pretty good stuff.

[Evan]

Well, I want to just call out. I mean, that little stretch, everything there. I like man in the long black coat. I like Congratulations. Just on the note of Congratulations, I think this song, while having a relatively simple lyric, you know, extremely simple and to the point you could criticize it, which I'm not going to do, but the verses in it are very pretty. Like, the. The melodic structure of the song is really nice. That, like, it's like, actually a. It almost could be on, like, Blood on the Tracks. Like, that verse, like, it's that, like, the bluebird was singing and there was no one around. It's. It's a better song than it seems at first. And I think you're right about saying that he kind of uncovers it by.

[Ian]

There's definitely much more going on with Congratulations than, like, you know, Dirty World or.

[Evan]

Yeah, there's a pretty song right in there, like, in the midst of all that fat and cheese.

[Ian]

I think it's legit. Like, a touching. Real great lyric from Bob. And like you said earlier, Stephen, the way that The Wilburys & Co. Put it across on the record maybe does the song a little bit of disservice in terms of.

[Steve]

I appreciate it on the Wilbury's record in a different way. I appreciate the production and the sort of camaraderie on the record, but hearing it here stripped down and, again, very raw and, you know, sort of falling apart, it did make it sound more like a Nashville Skyline type song to me or a kind of like a throwback country type number.

[Ian]

Yeah, I see that.

[Steve]

It sounds like, on the record, it.

[Ian]

Sounds more like a Bob Dylan song here than A Wilbury's song.

[Steve]

Yeah. And I, and I was like, it made me hear the song with new ears, which is always. Again, like with Bob Dylan, one of the incredible things about him is that he can perform songs you've heard a million times and then make you hear it with new ears. It's like, wow, I didn't hear it this way before. Like I thought I knew this song. And you're presenting it in a different way. And as ramshackle as that is. And it's so funny again, like when he starts playing it because it sounds like a total lark. He's like laughing at the beginning of it, but it ends up being this kind of moving performance in a lot of ways.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Bob]

The South Winds Blow My Way.

[Evan]

When Teardrops. Where Teardrops Fall is really also very good. I, I think that that song is just an all timer. It's. It's a song that he has noted I, I think as being like, like this one just worked. It's like the one part where he talks about recording oh Mercy where he's like, this song. We just. I knew it was good when we did it and it does, it just has the sauce. Like when Where Teardrops Fall always sounds. I'm always happy to hear that. I. One, one. Just side note that man in the Long Black Coat. I just recently restarted watching True Detective again and I realized that this is, this would be the true, like the True Detective intro music.

[Ian]

Oh, for the first, the first one, absolutely.

[Evan]

If there was. For any season of that show, like man in the Long Black Coat sound like seems it's. It's the Bob Dylan True Detective song and I just wanted to throw that in there.

[Steve]

Can I say, like, I don't want to usurp Bob Talk, but one of my favorite Bob Talk moments of this show is like when they start playing man in a Long Black Coat.

[Ian]

Yes.

[Steve]

And Bob is like.

[Ian]

What song, what song is this?

[Steve]

And then they start going into it.

[Ian]

I think it's out of it.

[Steve]

But just to piggyback on something Evan was saying, where te Drops Fall. I feel like that's a song. I would love to hear Bob revive that.

[Evan]

Oh yeah.

[Steve]

In the modern era. Like, you know, I feel like that's totally a song that he could do in his 80s. That, that just seems like such a great 80 something year old Bob Dylan song. And I don't know when the last time, like that's not a song he's ever played a whole lot, but I've always had a fondness for that song as well.

[Ian]

I could hear. I can hear it in my mind. I feel like there's great opportunities for up singing on Where Teardrops Fall.

[Steve]

Where Teardrops Fall. Or like Shooting Star, another song from oh Mercy. Both of those songs, I feel like, are such old man Bob Dylan songs, and it feels like they've been kind of like, left on the wayside a little bit, but hopefully they can be brought back.

[Ian]

14 plays for where teardrops fall last on that post 11 theft fall 2001 tour in Syracuse, New York, at the.

[Evan]

It's not very many.

[Ian]

Memorial Arena. Yeah, One of the. Just a very few. Maybe we should do this show. Tweedledee, Where Teardrops Fall High water boots of Spanish leather John Brown. This looks like a good set.

[Steve]

Oh, my God. That's an amazing set.

[Ian]

That's fire.

[Steve]

So, like, do you guys have any Omercy moments like that you just say are, like, Strictly ill Mercy?

[Evan]

I mean, not Strictly, but Tight Connection is. It's a not very good version of it. It's maybe the worst version, live version I've heard.

[Ian]

He knows about 60% of the lyrics for Tight Connection, as he does with a couple other songs here. So any of those moments would kind of fall into Omercy by default when he just forgets his own material, which I've got a couple other. But what do you have, Steven?

[Steve]

Well, one thing that jumped out to me and, like, again, like, I don't. I don't know if this is Strictly. It's got to be oh Mercy musically or Mercy, Although I love it in the vibe sense of the show. There's a dude who's, like, yelling out for harmonica. He's like, harmonica. And then Bob starts doing what Good Am I? And he does this, like, very weak harmonica thing that lasts forever. You know what I'm talking about? It's like, it's. It's at the beginning of the show. It's like right after Tight Connection to My Heart.

[Bob]

La.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm listening back to it now. He's not even playing anything. He's just kind of breathing into the harmonica.

[Steve]

But it's like some guy in the audience goes, harmonica. And, like, Bob literally starts doing this, like, harmonica thing.

[Evan]

Just to excite him?

[Ian]

No, to satisfy him. I think Bob is trying to win these people over. That's what's so touching about this show to me is like, I think he really needed the love at this moment and was trying to make these people happy.

[Steve]

Or that this was just, like, such A, like, intimate show. It was like, oh, harmonica. Okay, I'll do harmonica. But it's like the weakest sounding harmonica. And it takes forever to kind of get the show going. And that, to me, is like the O mercy moment of this show. Although, again, I kind of. I feel like we say this over and over again, like, every time bad.

[Ian]

But we like it anyway.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly. I appreciate it, but it. I don't. It's just so funny to me that there's like some yahoo in the audience who's like, just yelling out for harmonica. And then Bob. Okay, I'll try. And then, like, it's not really working.

[Ian]

Whatever song, however long you got to do it, just play the harmonica. Doesn't matter. Just breathe into it. I just want to hear the sound coming off the stage.

[Evan]

Love that instrument.

[Ian]

Great instrument.

[Steve]

Because Bob, for, like, you know, as unresponsive to the audience as he normally is, he seemed very responsive to this audience. We've already talked about congratulations. Like, someone shouting out, play Congratulations. And then he does it and someone's like, harmonica. And then Bob's like, okay, I'll try. And like, I'm not really feeling it.

[Ian]

Well, so that's my primary. Oh, mercy. And we already talked about it a little bit, but it is the result of yet another fucking wacko request from some yahoo in the crowd. Joey. Five Minute Joey. Or I guess technically six Minute Joey. I hate. I hate to see it. I hate to hear it.

[Bob]

If you sing it, you sing it. We can play for you. Okay. Kind of a victorious person.

[Steve]

I mean, he was doing Joey in this era. He was doing, like late 80s. He. He would do Joey and he, like, the Joey he does here isn't that different from, like, other Joeys that he does. Not defending it, actually, I'll defend Joey.

[Ian]

Okay. Yeah. White knight for Joey. Steven.

[Steve]

Oh, white night for Joey. I mean, it actually occurred to me at one point to pick a show and maybe I'll do this down the line because of a late. I was going to pick a late 80s show that had him doing Joey just because I thought it might irritate you.

[Ian]

Well, you don't need to think that it might irritate me. I can guarantee you that it will irritate me.

[Steve]

Joey.

[Evan]

I actually kind of. I'm not upset hearing it now.

[Ian]

You like Joey?

[Evan]

Well, you know, in a sea of kind of songs that some of them. I really. I don't know, I think I would be at least like, okay, this is cool. I can. I'm gonna go to the bar. And get another drink while Joey's playing. And then I'll come back and I'll be right. I'll be able to weasel my way into the spot I was just in.

[Ian]

I love.

[Steve]

But not as long as you thought though. Because it's a five minute Joey.

[Ian]

That's right, it's a short Joey.

[Steve]

It's not an 11 minute Joey.

[Evan]

It's just a Joe.

[Steve]

Exactly. It's a Joe. It's not a Joey.

[Ian]

I love the fucking. I'm just thinking about the ridiculous lyrics to Joey once again. What made them want to come and blow you away? Great question, Bob. The answer is the fact that he was like a notorious murderous villain of the New York mafia in the mid 20th century. Maybe that had something to do with wanting to. People wanting to come and blow you away.

[Steve]

I heard that he didn't really carry a gun though.

[Ian]

Uh huh. Yeah. Heard that somewhere. This. The, the other thing that I have in oh Mercy, which is similar to Steven. It's bad, but I like it anyways, is the Lay Lady Lay, which is right after Joey where he just. He is barely barely conscious during the performance of this song. I don't even know how to reinterpret it myself here. I'll just drop a clip in. But like he's singing the chorus and forgets the verse or forgets how to resolve it and then just kind of like it comes after one of the great bobtalk moments. Not to jump on that again, but he introduces Lei Lady Lay by stating.

[Bob]

Romance doesn't reveal that big part of my life in Houston.

[Ian]

This is one of my few romantic songs. Romance doesn't really play a big part in my life right now, but it used to. And then goes into the song, which is such a revealing and heartbreaking moment from this man at this moment in time.

[Steve]

I mean, he's like 48, you know, I mean, he was, you know, late 40s. I'm sure there was an open bar at Toad's place.

[Ian]

So yeah, plenty of drink tickets.

[Steve]

He was enjoying himself. Yeah, absolutely.

[Evan]

Are we still on Bob Talk? Is. Is this still Bob Talk?

[Steve]

I was gonna say. Well, there's Budokan moment.

[Evan]

Because my favorite Bob Talk is very brief. But it's just the fact that he says another request before playing in the garden. No solitary soul requested.

[Ian]

Am I hearing in the garden out there? Everyone. Everyone's just shouting visions of Joanna. Rainy day women. Idiot went, yeah, in the garden. All right, here we go.

[Evan]

All right, I. I wasn't gonna. Oh, that's interesting. All right.

[Steve]

I Mean, he's having a ball here. And I think that's like, what we're connecting to the, you know, the performances that aren't always connecting. Because I. I do think as much as, like, you know, we're. We're making jokes here about some of the. There are some great performances here then, and there's some train wreckie performances, but the sense of joy is really what I think connects this show. It's the through line of the show and it's what makes it, like, so fun to listen to. Yeah. And. Yeah, like, how much he's talking to the audience, how he's like, audibly laughing during performances or like. Like, you know, you hear like. Like who. Like a bunch of times. You know, he's just hooting and hollering. It's like. It's a super fun time.

[Evan]

I'll remember you. We didn't talk about that, but that's a good one.

[Ian]

I love it.

[Steve]

That's a great one too.

[Evan]

Yeah, that's really fun and like, it. It's one of those moments that feels like really just like they're having a good time.

[Ian]

I love I'll Remember your. I think that sounds great.

[Evan]

It is one of the better songs from, like. I don't. I guess. Wait, when is I'll Remember your? That's. That's from Empire. Empire Burlesque.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Evan]

That song has, I think, grown to be one of the, like, maybe it's one of the most played from that, I'm pretty sure.

[Ian]

I think it is. Yeah. He brings it back pretty often, I think. I think there's an I'll Remember your on the Berkley 2002 show.

[Evan]

Yeah. And in Masked and Anonymous.

[Ian]

That's right. Yeah. He does the stripped down acoustic version of that.

[Evan]

Really one of the best. Maybe the best part of the movie.

[Ian]

Yeah. That's musically fantastic. He played the hell out of it, actually, all through the 80s into, like, played every year in the 90s. Looks like it's been mothballed since 2005 at this point. But, yeah, I love to hear I'll remember you.

[Steve]

So we did bootleg titles for the first part of Toads, and they all.

[Ian]

Had the word toad in them. I've got a couple. I've got a couple new ones to submit here. And I know that these are not ones that I did before because they're all based on songs from this part of the set. And there's one that doesn't even appear in any of the sets, but I just. I felt like a light Bulb go off in my brain when I thought of it. Tight connection to my songs in parentheses. Has anyone seen the lyrics?

[Evan]

Nice.

[Ian]

Because I don't know them.

[Steve]

That's a great one.

[Ian]

That was the one minus without Toad for me. I also have.

[Evan]

Do you have a Toad one?

[Ian]

I have two Toad ones. Bobby went a Toadin.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Ian]

What a world it would have been if he had played Froggy at Toads. Some things are too beautiful for this world. And then my last one is, of course, Contogulations.

[Steve]

Wow. You brought it. You brought it. On this one I had. I just have one because I think I did this one. Well, I have two, but I think I did my first one already. A Toad or a Prince. I think I did that one already.

[Evan]

Yeah, you did do that.

[Ian]

Yeah. Something along those lines.

[Steve]

It didn't land the first time. The. The second one was man in the Long Black set list. Because it's a long set.

[Ian]

A long set list. Okay. Bravo.

[Steve]

I don't know why it'd be a black set list, but, you know. Anyway.

[Ian]

Man in the long green set list because of Toad.

[Evan]

Oh, my God.

[Steve]

Bad. Yeah.

[Ian]

Like, Ian, you were like, I'm inspired, man.

[Steve]

You're spitting fire here, man.

[Evan]

He plays Wiggle Wiggle. We have not talked about that. I just need to.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah, that was my Buddha. We didn't really do Budokan moment.

[Evan]

Budokan moment.

[Ian]

That was my Budokan moment submission.

[Evan]

I would agree.

[Ian]

It sounds garage, rocky, and, like, closer to something on. Oh, mercy. If you don't pay any attention to the lyrics, which Bob is barely paying attention to the lyrics. But it doesn't have any of that schlocky, glossy. Don was, you know, under the red sky. Doo Doo sauce.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Did you. Do you have any Budokan submissions, Steven?

[Steve]

Yeah, I didn't have a good one for that. It was like Dancing in the Dark was like. Yeah.

[Ian]

Because it doesn't bear any resemblance to Dancing in the Dark.

[Steve]

Yeah, that was it.

[Ian]

When did you'd leave Heaven Also is worth mentioning in that regard. Also because it sounds like a real normal rock song instead of that spacey, coked out, synthesizer and drum machine version that you get on down in the Groove.

[Steve]

Maybe not an improvement.

[Ian]

Maybe not an improvement. Yeah.

[Evan]

My. My bootleg title would just be another request.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Steve]

I mean, it could just be called Help Me make it through the Night.

[Evan]

Right?

[Steve]

That could be a title.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

You know, because he's. It's a long night.

[Evan]

Everything is toten.

[Ian]

Tote. Toad litical world.

[Steve]

It's hard not to just. Yeah.

[Evan]

Put Toad where Toad drops fall. And Maggie's Toad.

[Steve]

Yeah, Maggie's Toad. Just the laziest. Just the laziest thing I like.

[Evan]

I've been all around Toad's place.

[Steve]

Yeah. No, no, Maggie's Toad.

[Evan]

Maggie's, too.

[Steve]

Just the. This is the laziest one. Early Roman King.

[Ian]

I like. We haven't really talked about the band that much. I think probably because we talked about the band a lot last time. I'm just gonna kind of go with GE by default. Because I just love the way that Bob's band sounds with GE. I don't. I think we did the 88 show after we did Toads last year, if memory serves. I don't like the way that the band sounds quite as much as I'd liked the 88 band, to be honest. I think GE was, like, tighter and hotter and just more out front there. That could have something to do with the fact that Bob is making him play four and a half hours this night. So, you know, can't hold it against him if he was a little tired. But, yeah, you know, it's a. Anytime you hear GE playing guitar with Bob from this era, you can just tell right away it's a great sound.

[Evan]

The drummer is Christopher Parker. Christopher Parker. I mean, I was thinking about the drums during this because I was just like, that's so much to do. You have to be so on your toes. And there's a great effort being put in here that feels pretty effortless. So I'll give it to him just for the sheer stamina. I mean, just flat out, anyone who.

[Ian]

Can play drums to this many songs that he probably had never played before or played just once or twice for this long, you know, he deserves a nod of the head.

[Evan]

Yeah, he deserves a fucking gold medal for, like, the times that he has to sort of reorient the beat to accommodate Dylan.

[Ian]

He deserves a fucking overtime check from this guy.

[Evan]

Yeah. So that's my pick.

[Steve]

I'm gonna give it to the audience at Toads.

[Ian]

All right.

[Steve]

Because, again, this is, like, a vibe show for me. And I think, like, the enthusiasm of the crowd is such a big thing. And, like, how interactive this show is, I think more so than an average Dylan show. How I. I think Bob was, like, feeling the crowd. And I think the crowd was willing him to play as long as he did and to, you know, be as venturous as he was. So, you know, there are notoriously bad Bob Dylan crowds. You know, going back to Judas and the booing back in the mid-60s. But this is like a great Bob Dylan crowd, so I'm giving it to the audience.

[Ian]

There you go. Audience. Early. You're all the early Roman, early Toad and Kings.

[Steve]

Early Toad Kings. Stars. How many stars?

[Evan]

Three stars. I mean, it's the longest Bob Dylan show. It's a Bob Dylan show where you go there and you realize after a certain point, it's so long that you can just hang out at this Bob Dylan show and you don't even have to really care what he plays. You're just being treated to, like, a ridiculous amount of Bob Dylan music. And you get to do whatever you want while Bob Dylan is playing. That's a luxury that is basically unheard of. Like, how much did people pay to get in the door here? And then they get four hours of Bob Dylan up there.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Evan]

It's kind of like, I have to say, three stars of. This would have been one of the best nights of my life, I'm sure.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Evan]

If I'd been there.

[Ian]

I think that that, that makes sense. I think, like, musically speaking, if you're just looking at it strictly based on the way the songs sound, it's not. It's not quite a three star. But just if. Looking at it in totality, the whole experience.

[Evan]

Toadality.

[Ian]

Toadality. Yeah, there you go. God damn it. Like Stephen was saying, that's why you listen to a bootleg. Right. Is because it's not just listening to the perfectly presented sounds. The right take from the right time sequenced together, smashed together into a mix. It's getting a taste of what was going on in this room at this moment in time. And nothing like this has ever happened in Bob Dylan's career. So I think for. For that fact alone, three stars is the only choice.

[Steve]

So I'm giving it three stars for Vibe, one star for music, two stars overall.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Steve]

For me, that's fair. Three star vibe show. If you are hanging out on a porch, put the show on, get some beers, hang out for four hours, you're gonna have a great time.

[Ian]

This is a put it on show. That's definitely true.

[Steve]

If you're pulling out songs for your Neverending Stories playlist, it's a one star show. There's lots of other things you probably want to pull before this. So two stars overall for me.

[Ian]

Fair enough. Well, we have done it. I think we have. Collectively. We didn't. You know, I feel like we do pretty lengthy media conversations here. I think between this episode and the last Toads episode, we've cleared about the three hour mark. Collectively. So, you know, we couldn't even make it the total length that Bob and the band did this night 34 years ago. Salute to the crew. They got us beat.

[Steve]

Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Toads.

[Ian]

See you in the hot tub.