Teaser // Billy Joel: AN INNOCENT MAN with Molly Lambert

Summary

Jokermen Podcast Episode: Teaser // Billy Joel: AN INNOCENT MAN with Molly Lambert Release Date: July 24, 2025

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Introduction to Billy Joel's Ethnic Identity

The episode opens with a discussion led by Ian, who reflects on his initial perception of Billy Joel's ethnicity. He admits, “I thought Billy Joel was Italian until I think we were doing girls in hoodies at Grantland and my friend Tess said, he's not Italian if he, you know, he's Jewish” (00:00). This revelation sparks a deeper conversation about the blending of ethnic identities in New York, highlighting Joel's Jewish heritage from Long Island.

Tess reinforces this notion, emphasizing the importance of cultural identity in understanding Joel’s persona: “if he were Italian, it would have been called Scenes from a Restaurant” (00:28). This leads Ian to introspect whether his disdain for Billy Joel is rooted in a form of self-hating Jewishness, a theme Tess provocatively explores by asking, “Is this. Are you a closet anti Semite? Is that what it is?” (00:53).

Political and Cultural Assimilation

Ian delves into the political dimensions of his relationship with Billy Joel, drawing parallels with other Jewish artists like Paul Simon. He muses, “what is it about Paul Simon? ... the type of like assimilated Jewishness that he represents to me is the reason” (00:55). Grant adds a layer by comparing this to older Jews who may harbor animosity towards figures like Bernie Sanders, despite seemingly sharing similar values: “they are exactly, like, he reminds me of myself and of people or their parents” (01:22).

Billy Joel's Personal Struggles and Public Persona

The conversation shifts to Joel's personal life, particularly his tumultuous relationships. Tess points out, “he's been married four times … and he married like a 22-year-old girl. And it just like, that the relationship collapsed almost immediately” (02:27). This leads Ian to characterize Joel as embodying a "non-assimilated" New York Jew, depicting him as “sort of a miserable person, like deep down and sort of like a self-sabotager” (01:26). The discussion underscores how Joel's personal challenges reflect in his music and public image.

Evolution of Billy Joel's Music and Public Perception

Grant reflects on his evolving relationship with Joel's music: “what Ian was getting at was that, you know, his journey with Billy Joel has been one of going from, like, negative to neutral to positive, firmly positive” (02:31). He contrasts his initial admiration with a period of cynicism, especially concerning Joel's later works. However, Grant appreciates Joel's attempt to reinvent himself, stating, “I think that it also suggests that he kind of sort of couldn't do that” (04:05).

Ian praises Joel's authenticity, noting, “he's the intellectuals, rock star thing that a lot of other people do need that kind of validation … he's like a bar rock guy, you know?” (04:08). This sentiment emphasizes Joel's genuine connection with his audience, portraying him as an unpretentious artist who strives to win over crowds without pandering.

Highlighting Key Albums and Songs

The discussion highlights Joel's album "Keeping the Faith," with Tess declaring, “Keeping the faith fucking rocks” (05:39). Ian counters common perceptions, stating, “I was wrong. Child Me was wrong. For the Longest Time is amazing” (05:04), while Grant controversially claims, “I think for the Longest Time is like basic” (05:40). This segment underscores the varied interpretations of Joel's music and its impact on listeners.

Final Thoughts on Billy Joel's Cultural Influence

Towards the end, the hosts explore Joel's upbringing in the Bronx amidst Italian peers and his possible attendance at a Catholic school, which may have influenced his cultural expressions: “He was raised in the Bronx and in the midst of a bunch of Italian kids up there. And I think he even went to Catholic” (06:00). Ian reflects on the fluidity of cultural affiliations in New York, suggesting that Joel represents a "trans Italian" identity shaped by his environment: “There's kind of like a. Like a Jewish culture ... who were not Jewish who just kind of got into it because they were like, that's what's around” (06:08).

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Conclusion

This teaser episode of the Jokermen Podcast offers a nuanced exploration of Billy Joel's identity, artistry, and personal struggles. Through candid conversations, Ian, Tess, and Grant dissect the layers of Joel's public persona and musical legacy, providing listeners with thoughtful insights and sparking curiosity for the full episode featuring Molly Lambert.

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Note: This summary captures the key discussions and insights from the teaser episode's transcript, presenting a cohesive narrative for those unfamiliar with the original content.

Transcript

[Ian]

Anyway, I thought Billy Joel was Italian until I think we were doing girls in hoodies at Grantland and my friend Tess said, he's not Italian if he, you know, he's Jewish. And I was like, no, he's not. He's Italian, you know. No, he's Jewish. Everybody knows he's famously Jewish. And I was like, oh, I think it's just kind of that like New York ethnic white ethnic thing where it all kind of blends together. He's from Long Island.

[Tess]

Yeah.

[Ian]

But she was like, if this is my friend Tess lunch, she said if he were Italian, it would have been called Scenes from a Restaurant.

[Grant]

You wouldn't have to specify scenes from a normal restaurant.

[Ian]

Scenes from a normal restaurant. And then I was like, oh, is my dislike of Billy Joel part of a sort of like a self hating Jewishness thing?

[Tess]

Is this. Are you a closet anti Semite? Is that what it is?

[Ian]

Well, I mean this is honestly like the more I talk about politics, Paul Simon and I know I went really hard on Paul Simon last time I was here with you guys. And I've been thinking about it a lot since then where I was like, what is it about Paul Simon? And I was like, it's the type of like assimilated Jewishness that he represents to me is the reason.

[Grant]

And I think this is fascinating. This is like what happens to older Jews who like hate Bernie Sanders, even though on every level they are exactly.

[Ian]

Like, they're like, he reminds me of myself and of people or their parents.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Ian]

So you go from like, I don't like Billy Joel to like, I am Billy Joel. You know, that's why I rejected Freudian at first and that's why I ultimately, yeah, I was like, no, Billy Joel, but Billy Joel is the non assimilated. He's the sort of the New York Jew who kind of like no matter how rich he gets, he does have this kind of just like there's something polyacci about him. You know, he seems like sort of a miserable person, like deep down and sort of like a self sabotager. He cheats on Christie Brinkley. That's what ends up breaking up their marriage.

[Tess]

Yeah, there's no question about that. There's actually, I mean in this documentary there's this like after the Christie Brinkley thing, like he's been married four times, which I didn't realize, including the third. The third time was to like when he was, I don't know, maybe 50, 55 something and he married like a 22 year old girl. And it just like, that the relationship collapsed almost immediately.

[Ian]

Classic.

[Tess]

Well, exactly. It was just cries for help.

[Grant]

Relating to. What Ian was getting at was that, you know, his journey with Billy Joel has been one of going from, like, negative to neutral to positive, firmly positive.

[Tess]

And you've been working opposite.

[Grant]

Yeah. The last two records we've talked about, I went from, like, knowing and just basically liking Billy Joel, Joel's music, like, knowing it so well, from just childhood to, like, then getting really into, like, these last two albums in particular, it just really kind of souring on it. On him and it. But this album, you know, he said himself, like, I wanted after the Nylon Curtain album to do something completely 180 degrees different. And that is why I like this, I think, so much more, because it's like, yeah, man. Like, it's. It's good to have you back. Like, not wearing that hat anymore. That didn't look good on you. Like.

[Ian]

Well, he could have gone. He also could have gone completely into just pretentious rock opera territory. You know, that's like, One Direction. He could have gone after, like, some of the stuff on Nylon Curtain. It feels very like that is the.

[Grant]

Nylon Curtains sort of suggest. Yeah, it sort of suggests that, but I think that it also suggests that he kind of sort of couldn't do that.

[Ian]

I feel like he didn't want to. I think he.

[Grant]

I don't know that there was many ideas left. Like.

[Ian]

Well, that's what I like about him is, like, he doesn't seem like he needs that kind of, like, New Yorker magazine. Like, he's the intellectuals, rock star thing that a lot of other people do need that kind of validation. Because at his core, he's like a bar rock guy, you know? And I think I mentioned last time. It's like Piano man is written about when he was working, gigging in Koreatown in Los Angeles, playing for these businessmen, and the microphone smelled like a beer. It's like he's always trying to win over the crowd a little bit. And so he has this kind of unpretentious populism that doesn't feel like pandering somehow. Like, with anyone else, it would just feel like you're pandering to, like, hey, remember the good times from when you were a kid?

[Grant]

Right. But with him, that's like, the authentic self. And the pandering is when he's, like, trying to be, like, art. Art. Acceptable rock musician with the last record.

[Ian]

Yeah. Like, when he's trying to do kind of, like, bombastic great art or whatever. And this is like, what feels classical too, that just people are like, I'll make a little throwaway album just for fun for me. And it ends up being his second biggest album ever. And like almost every song charts and it rocks. I really had not spent a lot of time with it. And then I did for this episode and I was like, you know what? I was wrong. Child Me was wrong. For the Longest Time is amazing.

[Grant]

Yeah, it's his best song.

[Tess]

Best song.

[Grant]

I'll say it. I'll say it. I think for the Longest Time is like basic. I mean, we'll.

[Ian]

We're jumping ahead, I think keeping the faith also. I was. Keeping the faith fucking rocks. I mean, he also talked about like the Catholic girls a lot, which made me think he was Italian. And then I was like, oh, no, it's cuz he's Jewish.

[Tess]

He. He grew up in, you know, before he moved out to Long Island. He was raised in the Bronx and in the midst of a bunch of Italian kids up there. And I think he even went to Catholic.

[Ian]

Right. That's what I mean. I think he's a little bit trans Italian and like in the way the kids in the Valley. Because there's kind of like a. Like a Jewish culture. I've known kids who were not Jewish who just kind of got into it because they were like, that's what's around. That's right. I thought, I famously thought you were Jewish when we did the Jokerman Live show and had to. And then I was like, wait, Ian was throwing me off. And then Grant. I should have known. No Jewish person has the last name, granted.