A (2:52)

There's like pickle menu. Everything.

B (2:55)

Pickle everything. Exactly. Every food is becoming every other food. And it's just kind of a ceaseless gyre of brand collaboration.

A (3:05)

A gyre.

B (3:06)

Yeah. You like that?

A (3:08)

I don't know.

B (3:09)

Whirling and whirling in the.

A (3:11)

Whatever. A gyro. A. I don't know that word.

B (3:16)

You haven't heard that falcon cannot hear the falconer poem before things fall apart. Whoever wrote that. Turning and turning in the widening gyre I think is how it goes anyways. Ice cream soda.

A (3:28)

Well, you know, when you say ice cream soda, that is actually as, as far from the new as you can get. Like if you ask for an ice cream soda in the 50s, go to any soda jerk and they'll be like, sure, what kind do you want? Chocolate or vanilla or. Or strawberry. And it's just an ice cream and seltzer and you know, like maybe with some syrup, like whatever. I'm sure there's different ways of doing it.

B (3:56)

Well, you're talking about a float.

A (3:57)

Yeah, the egg cream. But I'm talking about the concept.

B (3:59)

But an egg cream is.

A (4:00)

It's not necessarily a float. Like I think in the past, like there. An egg cream is more like.

B (4:06)

Like an egg cream is a classic soda.

A (4:08)

I'm thinking about like specifically the idea of an ice cream soda. Like you, you basically, I think in the past, in the 50s, 60s, you. You could ask for an ice cream soda and it would be seltzer and scoops of ice cream. This concept of just adding seltzer to ice cream is very old. So in some way I feel like, you know, they are. They're doing a tribute to something very, very antique. But I hope that this tastes kind of like an egg cream. That's like the best possible.

B (4:39)

That's kind of what I'm expecting. I'm expecting this to be not like a good tasting egg cream necessarily, but sort of like a manufactured version of a chocolate egg cream.

A (4:48)

All right, let's.

B (4:48)

I think there is chocolate. There's chocolate in it. Or it's supposed to taste like it.

A (4:52)

Has sprinkles and chocolate sort of. I'm getting. I'm on the edge of my seat. We just gotta.

B (4:57)

Alright.

A (5:01)

Okay.

B (5:01)

Inspired by you, I've got one of my fancy beer tasting glasses today as well. So can really. Oh, interesting. Okay, so this is a relatively light color.

A (5:10)

It's. It's darker than a typical cream soda, but it's.

B (5:13)

But definitely lighter than root beer.

A (5:14)

Yeah, it's like, it's like a deep, you know, an amber.

B (5:19)

Yeah, this would be an amber ale. Exactly.

A (5:20)

Wow.

B (5:21)

Beer. Oh no.

A (5:23)

The smell. The. No.

B (5:25)

Oh no.

A (5:26)

That's amazing.

B (5:28)

I don't. I'm not.

A (5:29)

There's no head on it at all. Which you'd think like you would Want a lot. But it smells just, like, pure, like the. Like those brownies. Those. Those, like, brownies with a thousand ingredients.

B (5:43)

It smells like a scratch and sniff, like, sticker, you know, when you scratch and snit, you know, I'm not thrilled. I'm not thrilled with the aroma.

A (5:53)

I'm kind of excited because it's like, so it's like, you know, birthday cake flavor, like, with, like, chocolate syrup. It just smells like, like whatever buddy the elf eats in in that movie. Elf.

B (6:08)

It's the most artificial smelling thing I've ever smelled.

A (6:11)

All right, well, chug a lug.

B (6:13)

Chug a lug.

A (6:21)

Well, okay. It tastes like chocolate milk soda.

B (6:26)

Yeah, it's a cream soda with a little bit of chocolate to it.

A (6:29)

Like a decent amount of like a. Like a solid. It is basically like an egg cream. It's like an egg cream without the. The creaminess.

B (6:40)

Yeah. There's no creamy. There's no creamy. There's almost like a slight under bite or undercurrent of like a slice or a seven up. It's not there necessarily, but there is. It's leaning in that direction. I want to say.

A (6:56)

Wow. I kind of like this as a treat. Like, as a sweet treat. I. I can kind of get behind this. Instead of, like, having a little candy bar. Like, I never do that. Really. I never have.

B (7:14)

That's what I think.

A (7:15)

No candy or sweets in my home almost ever.

B (7:18)

And when you rolled up here the other day, you. You were trying to offer me a pack of gummies that you had just, like, sitting next to you in the car.

A (7:25)

I was on a road trip, all right?

B (7:27)

I do. On that note, I do like. I like the mini. The concept of the mini can. This is. What is it? 7 1/2 ounces? 90 calories. This is a. This is a great amount of soda to be served at once. It's enough to kind of get you somewhere, but it's not too much. Get that, you know, kind of like glazed teeth feeling. I think this is. This is an elegant way of packaging and selling soda.

A (7:54)

I'm savoring this. I love this.

B (7:56)

Wow. I love this. I wouldn't go that far. It's good. It's definitely. Listen. Ice cream sundae soda. Artificially flavored ice cream sundae soda. There's a world in which that just is a disaster. Imagine a mug version of this. Ugh. Don't even want to. But this. It works. I think it is totally successful. I'm probably not. I can't imagine myself ever deciding, like, I need to Buy another package of the ice cream sundae soda. But I'm certainly happy to drink it here.

A (8:31)

I've just finished mine already.

B (8:33)

Wow, you're pulling a me over there.

A (8:35)

It is small.

B (8:36)

Sucking it down, it's like half the.

A (8:38)

Can of a normal soda. Wow.

B (8:42)

I think there's opportunities for mixing.

A (8:45)

Yeah, I think so.

B (8:46)

Well, I feel like, you know, you could do it. Like, a rye would sit nicely with this. I wonder if there's even a way to do, like, a mezcal type cocktail with this.

A (8:56)

Now you're getting a little exotic. I mean, chocolate. Chocolate.

B (9:01)

Chocolate.

A (9:01)

You know, you could put with. This is vodka.

B (9:05)

Yeah. I don't like drinking vodka, but I'm.

A (9:07)

Thinking of like, a White Russian. Like a variation on a White Russian with this in there.

B (9:11)

Oh, okay.

A (9:12)

You want to do something kind of Kahlua. Yeah.

B (9:15)

Bailey's something.

A (9:18)

Anything in that direction. I. I just think it's good. And I think it's. It's good because it's actually a representation of. Of a very elemental form in the soda and confection realm.

B (9:42)

Yeah.

A (9:42)

The. The ice cream soda or the. The egg cream. You know, that's not. There's no ice cream, but we're still talking about, like, chocolate syrup and soda. I think that we've gone so far away from that, from the. The soda jerk and the. The drugstore counter. In fact, all of the Rite Aids are closed or closing. And with them, all of the thrifty ice creams, which were like a vestigial leftover of.

B (10:13)

That was like the best part of Rite Aid with the little square shaped scoop, they have like this in the gun that they would just, like, shoot into your ice cream cone.

A (10:21)

I don't know about that, but I. Whatever.

B (10:23)

It was like a signature thrifty element.

A (10:26)

Well, thrifty is. It was a nice thing to be able to get ice cream at a drugstore. Like it. I didn't even put the pieces together till much, much later that. That was directly holding over from the earliest times of drugstores in America.

B (10:46)

Drugstore culture.

A (10:47)

Yeah. And, you know, as a kid, I was kind of just like, yeah, they have a deal with this ice cream company. But no, it was actually a genuine piece of history, sort of like still hanging on. And now it's fallen off.

B (11:04)

They've taken it away from us again.

A (11:05)

Yeah. Literally, that's where I got my prescriptions filled most of the time. And now I don't, because it's closed. And I never got ice cream again. Well, I'll. I'll certainly Never get them there. And. And ice cream, you know, I didn't really get anything from. I didn't go to Thrifty, but it was nice to have the option. All of this is to say that I think that this aw. Ice cream sundae soda is a. A welcome. Not whether intentional or not, it is it. You can't escape its place in the soda world. You know, that it points, it gestures back to a time. It says, do it again. It says, let's do it again.

B (11:52)

It honors the history of American culture. And for, you know, a company that makes root beer one of the founding liquids of American culture, in many ways, I think it's perfectly appropriate.

A (12:06)

It's even funny. Just like the ice cream sundae, like, you know, that's not like a huge thing. At least.

B (12:14)

I don't know, maybe ice cream sundaes are out.

A (12:17)

They're not really, like, talked about so much. People are not being like, ooh, a sundae. But maybe this is a sign that actually we're.

B (12:25)

Have you ever had a banana sleep? I've never. Because I have never had a banana. I feel like when I was growing up that, like, everyone in the tv, in the movies, they'd always go down to the ice cream parlor and order a nice big banana split. Nothing has ever appealed less to me than too much old banana in the middle of my ice cream dish.

A (12:45)

Just too much ice cream. I mean, I appreciate the drama of the presentation. You can get one of those at the. At Fluffy's. Have you been to Fluffies in Echo Park?

B (12:57)

It's like, oh, is that the place that's right there on Sunset? Yeah, kind of like, right by stories. Yeah, I actually have.

A (13:02)

It's pretty good.

B (13:03)

They have good soft serve, and they have.

A (13:05)

I like everything about their. I mean, it's just a great little place. And they, they have Sundays and. And they also, they. They. They give me a similar feeling here where I'm just like, it's nice to have something like this be brought back. It was a welcome surprise. I was like, oh, a new ice cream parlor that has, like, kind of an antique style, but isn't like, just like fake nostalgia porn. Like, it's. It's just a respectful nod. I. I'm giving NW ice cream sundae soda three stars.

B (13:47)

All right, well, I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it to. That's. I think that's a plenty high score to give to it. It's definitely the best case scenario of what this could be. I still am not over the moon with it, necessarily. I would take a root beer, you know, pretty much any day. But I appreciate the effort.

A (14:06)

I almost want another one.

B (14:08)

This has been ice cream, sundae, soda report.

A (14:21)

All right, which one of these we want to do first?

B (14:24)

Oh, I think we should do the 25th anniversary first. Right?

A (14:32)

I don't know.

B (14:33)

I feel like that's. Do you feel like.

A (14:38)

Well, it's a matter of do we want to start on a high note or end on one.

B (14:43)

I think ending on a high note is good, which is why I think doing the 25th anniversary first is the proper order of operations here.

A (14:51)

Yeah, sure, sure. Good idea. Is everybody ready to rock and roll? From Waikiki beach In Honolulu, Hawaii, 25 years together, it's the Beach Boy, Al.

B (15:05)

Jardine, Bruce Johnston.

A (15:12)

Mike Love, Brian and Carl Wilson.

B (15:41)

So, yeah, so we're taking a moment out of the story of the Beach Boys to look back at the story so far with a couple different film presentations surrounding the boys from this era. Both an American band documentary released 1985, as well as the Beach Boys 25 Years Together, a celebration in Waikiki Television spectacular special from 1986, I believe. So we're, we're here in this era of the Beach Boys, self titled. You know, the band is back together, Dennis is dead, and things are. But things are looking up. Everything is moving forward. The band can kind of take a moment to evaluate where they're at, take stock of where they've been, where they have been, and kind of evaluate their status as icons of American culture, which they, you know, these are two different approaches to that subject, I guess, is what I would say.

A (16:49)

One has Joe Piscopo.

B (16:52)

A lot of Joe Piscopo. Yeah. So the Beach Boys, 25 years together. These are both, I should say, all entirely available for free on YouTube in decent enough quality, actually. I mean, they look like VHS scans because that's what they are. But it's not like as shitty as that copy of Almost Summer that I sent you when we drove us.

A (17:12)

Nothing could be as shitty as that. That was like in Morse code.

B (17:16)

That was like a cave painting quality. So we'll put links to these in the, in the episode description here. But yeah, the, the 25 years together Beach Boys. 25 years together. This is, this is. They're part of this. This is kind of put on by the Beach Boys Corporation to again sort of celebrate the band mark a quarter century together. And I don't, I guess, I don't know. What do you think the purpose of this was? Beyond all of that.

A (17:47)

I. I would need to know more about, like, whose idea it really was because.

B (17:53)

Well, I don't know if you caught in the credits there at the end special. I took a screenshot of this, actually, because I'm gonna post it on Instagram. Special Consultant Dr. Eugene E. Landy.

A (18:02)

All right.

B (18:03)

Case closed. So wouldn't be surprised if this was all put together at his direction in large part.

A (18:11)

I guess what the purpose of this is is it's. It's the same thing as the. As The Bob Dylan 30th thing, you know, it's the same thing.

B (18:22)

Well, because that is the clearest.

A (18:24)

They're. They're just not comparisons. But. Yeah, I mean, instead of having like every other most important rock musician alive on stage, you have Joe Piscopo and Paul.

B (18:38)

Paul Schaeffer.

A (18:39)

Paul Schaeffer.

B (18:39)

I love to see Paul Schaefer.

A (18:41)

And they sort of drag Ray Charles into it.

B (18:44)

Ray Charles, absolutely. The Everly Brothers show up.

A (18:47)

They do. Okay.

B (18:48)

So, I mean, yeah, Glenn Campbell, he looks great.

A (18:52)

So it is basically, I think, made with the intent of, you know, being as simple as. Let's capitalize on this. This 50s nostalgia once and for all. Let's do it. You know, in the same way that everything. Let's do it again. I. I feel like there's always stuff like this happening. Like it. You know, every anniversary of any kind of thing is an excuse to celebrate it. I mean, not that it's all like a bad. It's always bad to. To have like, you know, screenings or special concerts or retrospectives. Naturally, I'm you. And I don't think are against that at all.

B (19:38)

No, I don't know.

A (19:39)

And I'm not.

B (19:40)

We both spent an hour and a half watching this insipid television special today.

A (19:45)

But I also gotta say, like, I don't really like the Bob Dylan 30th thing.

B (19:51)

Why not?

A (19:53)

Score.

B (19:54)

Come on, Lou Lou. Standing up there doing Foot of Pride, that's like. That's fantastic stuff.

A (19:59)

I just don't really like it. I don't like the. There's a reason why Bob Dylan doesn't do stuff like that. And like, you know, it. It goes off as well as it could because the. The music is so great. And, you know, Bob. It's Bob Dylan. And everybody is like. It has everything going for it, but there's still something like a little bit weird about that level of big razzle dazzle, pomp and circumstance production. Like an award show feeling environment for. With Bob Dylan at the center that feels it's it's always felt just kind of off.

B (20:37)

I know what you mean. It's sort of out of character for Bob, is what I would say.

A (20:41)

Yeah, it's like when you see, like, an off model Bugs Bunny or Popeye, it's just kind of like, yeah, I like all these characters. You know.

B (20:52)

I mean, I think part of the reason the Bob thing happens and part of the reason this happens as well, you know, you gotta think about where they're at in their career, you know. And I think this period in time for the Beach Boys is a pretty low ebb for them, much in the same way that 1991, 1992 for Bob was a pretty low ebb for him. Again, we know he's coming back on top with Good as I've been to you very shortly. But they're, at this point, both of them, Bob in the early 90s and the Beach Boys in the mid-80s, where there's a question as to whether they're even going to be able to continue at this point, the Beach Boys, explicitly, because they have lost one of the founding Beach Boys. And so I think that both efforts, the Bob effort and the Speech Boys effort, are to some degree, you know, kind of positioned as marketing exercises, really more than anything. And the band is, you know, cooperating with it. Bob is cooperating with it when he's doing his thing. And I think both of those specials, this Beach Boys 25th one and the Bob 30th one, end up bearing the mark of their subject in their own unique way. As corny as the Bob one can be, it's way, way less corny than this. It should come as no surprise. But I do think that they are kind of efforts to stake out a claim on the present and the future, really, and state to the world around them that, like, hey, it's been a while. We've been through some ups and downs, certainly, but we are still here and we're going to continue to be here. And so I can't help but be kind of, you know, admiring about that.

A (22:41)

I would say that every positive feeling that you've just described is what I feel more, more directly about the other film we're going to talk about. I just. Yeah, I don't. I don't hate this. I. I would. I just find it kind of, like, basically goofy and not necessarily in a good way for most of the time. Most of the time, it's just kind of like. It's endurable. I can endure it.

B (23:19)

A ringing endorsement. It's endurable. I Mean, I do think that there's something important here about Brian, you know, most of all, who is participating in this and doing his best, certainly under some pretty difficult circumstances. Because this obvious is not, I guess, to offer just a bit of explanation about what it is we're talking about. It's this giant concert that is being put on on the shores of Waikiki, you know, in the middle of this big giant hotel high rise area with a bunch of bikini clad babes and shirtless hunks just kind of hooting and hollering and clapping for the Beach Boys. They literally arrive to the venue on a boat. They, like, sail. They sail them in to the bay and. And they get off and immediately have leis put on them by some Hawaiian ladies. And then they kind of go on to perform, perform Beach Boys classics to this crowd of adoring listeners. Apparently. It's a very Mike kind of presence, a very Mike kind of energy all throughout. And you can see that because he's clearly loving it. He's in his element. Al looks awkward, Carl looks. Looks awkward. Brian looks awkward. But they're all kind of doing the best that they can, I think. And it sort of heartened me. It made me feel a little warm inside just to see Brian, because he gets into it at certain points, you know, like when Ray Charles comes up. I don't know if you caught this. Ray Charles does Ceylon Sailor, which is actually kind of sick. I dug that more than any of the performances here. And when Brian is introducing Ray Charles, you can hear it in his voice. He gets that kind of excited quality that he has when he's, like, talking about Be my baby or something. He's like, here he is the man that I always imagined was gonna sing this song. You know him, you love him. A living legend. Ray Charles, the best. Ray Charles, exactly. Like, that's.

A (25:17)

That's the best part. Yeah, that. That is good. What is not so good?

B (25:25)

I haven't. I have it playing right now. I'm just. They're in the California girls section and they're all being kissed by all these women that are running on and putting. More like seven lace.

A (25:36)

Yes. That's about all he has on too.

B (25:39)

Yeah. What did you think of the sarong? That. That's quite a fit.

A (25:43)

Mike is wearing no shirt. I just want to be very clear about that. No shirt on Mike and a skirt.

B (25:49)

Basically just no shirt and a skirt is. Mike loves outfit, which, honestly, you gotta. You gotta admire it. I dig it. It's. It's pretty.

A (26:00)

It's viral.

B (26:00)

It's ballsy.

A (26:02)

Literally. Yeah, I think he's really taking charge here. It'd be easy to say, like, oh, this is like a midlife crisis thing, but I don't think that's what it is. This is like midlife certainty. This is just like.

B (26:18)

Yeah, well, this is, this is kind of the apotheosis of the My club vision of the Beach Boys. This is what it should always be is just, you know, we're gonna keep getting older, but the audience is gonna stay the same age. All the women in the bikinis are notably all, like, 20 years old.

A (26:32)

Getting older, but exactly.

B (26:35)

We're gonna keep doing our thing. We're gonna sing the same songs we've been singing for 25 years, and people are gonna continue to love us and cheer for us and have a great time, and it's all gonna go down easy. And, you know, that's not our vision of what Brian Wilson is all about, obviously, but it is Mike's vision of what the Beach Boys is all about. So I do. There's like an honesty to this, I guess, is what I would say. Even if I don't like what it's being honest about and I'm in fact, like, kind of antithetical and like, just like, completely opposed to it in general. It is, it isn't trying to pretend to be anything other than what it actually is, you know?

A (27:15)

Yeah. I mean, there's points to be given, I suppose, of just like. How do I put it? You know, Today things are, things are not so great in the world of music, I would say, largely world of performing music. I don't know. For example, like last night I was watching this video about how, like, this new Beatles set that's come out.

B (27:41)

Re release of the anthology thing.

A (27:43)

Yeah, there's, there's like a live video and audio of. It's John in 72.

B (27:50)

Oh, yeah, I meant to watch that. I, I, I saw you sent that last.

A (27:54)

Yeah.

B (27:54)

So what it is, Is it like an AI thing? They're doing too much AI shit.

A (27:58)

They went in there, they went into the, like, this guy is extremely carefully breaking down the technical side of things. Looking at the waveforms and the files, like, this guy's an expert and he's looking at it and he's saying, like, well, okay, so if we look at this, this and this, it's clear these are the same audio. But what they've gone and done is there's just a few moments where, like, there's a bit of a. Not even an off Note just like sharp or like a bit like growlier, rather than just singing it out. And they just went in and changed it. They just go in and changed his performance. Like.

B (28:40)

What do you mean changed? What do they.

A (28:42)

Like, there's.

B (28:42)

Did they like. It's little things or did they like replace it with someone else singing?

A (28:47)

No, they've just like tuned it. But they've also just like molded it into something else. Like, granted, this says. I guess there's something that, you know, says on some place that like, this is a remix. But like, most people don't know that a remix. What it. What a remix means today is they're going in there and they're just fucking with it on every level. To the point where what the guy's point and who's doing the video was what he was getting to and which is really important is like, this is changing the attitude. They've deleted the attitude out of this performance. Like they have. There are times when he's letting of a line, a song moment, be harsher or like not manicuring it to be like, as smooth like it is. It's simply his character coming through. And they are stripping that away and sanding it off and in fact replacing it at times with just notes he didn't sing. And that is the state of things today is like, everything is basically subject to this. He was making this insane. This point, which I just could hardly believe. But I guess it's true that on some level by doing this across the board, the industry having these standards, they're liable to go back to every great performance by every artist you love and get rid of the edge and soften it or change it or dull it down so that the people who are coming up today doing stuff, who. Who don't do that, who don't add in that extra edge or emotion, are not in competition with the past.

B (30:36)

And so is that. And so you're saying that's what is happening in this Beach Boys?

A (30:39)

No, I'm saying 25th anniversary special for whatever this is. It is not doing that.

B (30:44)

It's not doing that. Sure.

A (30:45)

I mean, those tools weren't available. Like, you know, it's just a different world, but like it's completely human made. And it's not lost on me that like, maybe poor decisions are involved, but it's not. It's not sinister.

B (31:04)

Yeah, yeah. I don't think it's sinister at all. And I do think that there is an effort. I mean, they are telling a story with this special. It's a very Glossed over story. There are a couple little kind of interstitial, like very basic documentary kind of elements injected here and there that tell just the simplest possible Beach Boys story. Obviously, by the end, you know, Dennis's death is acknowledged. They do Heaven. I'm sure you were thrilled to hear them do Heaven here and dedicated to Dennis, if you even made it that far.

A (31:37)

I did, but I. That was like a nicer way to hear that song.

B (31:42)

If you got to hear Heaven, I guess that's the best context in which to hear it. But, you know, beyond this, like, very basic Beach Boys, you know, for idiots type of story that they're telling, I do think that, like, a lot of the musical collaborators that they bring in, like, that is actually cool. Not all of them, certainly. I know. I know you and I were not necessarily too fond of blending.

A (32:03)

I don't know how the crowd was either, but they're. That was not auto tuned, let me tell you, honestly.

B (32:12)

Could have used a little bit of the AI Juice. But from Ray, which I think is really cool, to the Everlys, to Three Dog Night, who Brian was working with after he had stepped away from the Beach Boys. And there was some talk about him actually starting a separate group with them. Danny Hunton at that time, Glen Campbell, Obviously, I think there is a cool kind of musical history of the Beach Boys and the people that influence them as well as the people that they influenced. Being drawn here in very broad strokes, in very bright primary colors with, you know, very little nuance. But I do find that kind of admirable. And that. That I think is the strength of the Bob Dylan thing also is not even necessarily any of the performances themselves, but this kind of timeline history of the artists that were still around that influenced Bob as well as the wide, you know, world of artists who came after him, who had been influenced by him. I think that's. I think that's cool.

A (33:21)

Yeah, I agree. I do think that this is kind. It makes sense that we're talking about this in the same episode as the other thing we're talking about because I feel like they are kind of for the same. They have the same purpose, sort of. But, like, one. One is live and that's gonna be harder to do. And the other one has the benefit of being filled with great footage of, like, of the past. I. I will just note that I'm not a fan of Joe Piscopo and I in this.

B (33:55)

And what's his deal?

A (33:56)

Well, he is.

B (33:56)

Why is he here?

A (33:58)

He was. This was like the moment when he was a famous person.

B (34:02)

Right. But like, what was he even. Remind me what he was even famous for.

A (34:06)

He was on snl.

B (34:07)

Snl. Okay. Yeah, yeah, he did like the Sinatra stuff. Okay.

A (34:13)

Yeah. I mean his, his fame was like a very tenuous thing. I mean I, you, you're seeing it. You're seeing his, his abilities.

B (34:26)

Cast member SNL 80 to 84. He was already off SNL at this point.

A (34:29)

Yeah, he was. Only for not a huge time, four years.

B (34:34)

His film roles include Danny Vermin in Johnny Dangerously.

A (34:39)

Yeah, that was, I think the failed.

B (34:41)

Never heard of it. Joe Piscopo, vehicle Mo Dickstein in Wiseguys. Never heard of it. Actually, no. Is that, that's a De Palma movie. Okay, I've heard of it, but I haven't watched it. Doug Bigelow in Dead Heat. Never heard of that one. And Kelly Stone in Sidekicks, also never heard of that one. Seems to be starring Chuck Norris. I mean this like several episodes. He's one of those guys just like Lost to History.

A (35:09)

Law and Order a couple episodes.

B (35:11)

Batman, the Animated Series. Actually, look at this.

A (35:13)

1993, one episode.

B (35:14)

Yeah, he did Mugsy. I don't even remember Mugsy. Anyways, he also does. There's this just awful, like Bruce Springsteen, Born in the USA impression that Joe Piscopo does where he turns it into Surf in the usa. Just awful.

A (35:32)

The whole vibe of it is just odd because it feels like one of those, like, it's like the real Cancun. Like one of those like movies like. Or you know, early, early reality things of like.

B (35:44)

Oh, it's like when MTV used to just like broadcast from spring break and it was just like, you know, Carson Daly hanging out with a bunch of co EDS at pool and they were just playing music and just filming that for six hours or whatever. That's kind of the vibe that you've got going on here. I would have had a good time here.

A (36:05)

I don't know. I mean the crowd is interesting, I guess.

B (36:10)

A lot of babes.

A (36:11)

Yeah, yeah.

B (36:14)

You sound skeptical.

A (36:15)

I mean, no, there were women.

B (36:17)

They're very clearly, they've very clearly chosen the youngest. Taught us women to put right up front in the skimpiest possible bathing suits. Mikey is looking a little red at certain points. I hope he wore some sunscreen on this day. It's fine. It is absolutely what it is. I Woke up at 4:30 in the morning and watched this on my iPhone because I forgot to watch it last night.

A (36:49)

Why did you wake up at 4:30?

B (36:51)

Well, because I woke up on accident I wake up at 5:45 every day. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's. That's life these days. But I couldn't get back to sleep and so I just thought, I'll go ahead and watch this right now. And it was fine.

A (37:04)

Yeah, that's probably as a good timed place to watch it. I watched it on my computer, but, like, with the sound coming out of my big speakers and while I was just kind of like, you know, watching and then like, sort of like getting up and like sitting. Doing stuff, sitting down.

B (37:23)

You wanted to have the full surround sound experience of the Belinda Carlisle God Only Knows.

A (37:28)

Yeah, no, that. That was terrible. I will also say, like, I'm pretty sure on every single song there's a big mistake lyrically. Like, just like, you know, not that it. A lot of people would be like, yeah, it doesn't matter. But I feel like there's one that bugged me in particular. Who was it that sings? Who actually sings? God Only Knows?

B (37:54)

Oh, the guy. I never heard of him.

A (37:57)

Because Belinda Carlisle sings, like, she sings something like, didn't she sing?

B (38:01)

Or did she sing? Wouldn't it be nice?

A (38:02)

Wouldn't it be nice? Which is not nice. Are you ready to become a beach girl? Well, I've been waiting on my life but. Welcome our own California girl, Belinda Carlisle. Wouldn't it be nice if we would all die?

B (38:21)

Then we would have to rest a.

A (38:24)

Song and wouldn't it be nice to live together in the kind of world where we belong?

B (38:32)

The guy. Yeah, I don't know. I know the guy. He's a young fella. Good, good singer for God Only Knows. Anyways, what did he say?

A (38:39)

He says, life would say nothing to me but what good would living do me?

B (38:45)

Which is like, good would living to me.

A (38:48)

It's not. But it's so what good would. Is it so? Yeah, because otherwise the sentence just doesn't make sense. Life would say nothing to. Life could say nothing to me. He says life would say nothing to me but what good. So it's just like, wait. And he says it like, very distinctly and loudly both times. And I'm just like, well, that is the. The song is like a pretty simple idea. It's like. Though I don't know if I could get anything out of life. So what good would it do me to keep living without you? It's just like, how do you just fuck that up? I don't know. But then throughout, there's just like other similar. Just kind of like repeated flubs that make it just feel like it brought up this feeling to me of just like, who is this? For this idea of these people, these generic people in the crowd, they do.

B (39:45)

Kind of look like if you ever played Madden or NBA 2K or something. Just like the people that are in the stands doing the same three canned animations the entire time.

A (39:56)

Hear about the latest again. I feel like AI keeps coming up. It's never to going to stop. But Will Smith got.

B (40:05)

Oh, I saw something about that, but.

A (40:06)

I didn't really read video of him performing a song which he. You know, musician Will Smith.

B (40:15)

Is he still playing music?

A (40:17)

Well, I guess, but the. It's unclear if he's playing it to real people because a lot of people have pointed out that this video of this crowd, like, they're AI people. Like, it's fake. Like, they're like. And there's one that has like a misspelled sign about like this song, like, got me through my Cancer, but it's like an AI guy.

B (40:41)

Geez, they're. They're getting too. They're getting too comfortable blatant with the. With the AI stuff. Did you see the thing on Spy Plane today with the J. Crew AI?

A (40:51)

Yeah, Just like, that's one thing. It's like fucking.

B (40:55)

I'll say right now. Jokerman podcast will never be using any of this AI bullshit in the production of this program or any art assets that go along with it. That's our guarantee to you.

A (41:04)

Yeah, it is absolutely absurd. Like the. Anyway, the only way I can connect that to this is just like, just at least get the fucking lyrics right. Like, because a lot of the essential elements of things are just kind of being left to a unthinking force. Like, just get the lyrics right. You're. You're up there doing the songs in front of all these people because these are the great songs and you aren't playing, you know, 90% of the catalog in favor of these. Don't them up. Just like, do better at executing the. The tiny percent of the catalog that you deemed presentable. I mean, that's the one thing that just made me kind of like, if I thought about it at all, was just sort of like, this sucks. Like, come on, just do. Just be better at your job because this is professionalizing the Beach Boys until it's like, you know, the most marketable version of itself possible. Like, if that's what you're gonna do, do it.

B (42:11)

Tough crowd.

A (42:17)

One star for that.

B (42:20)

Yeah, one star. Pretty good. If you should ever leave me though life would still go on Believe me the world could say nothing to me.

A (42:35)

But what good would leave it do? God only knows what I'd be without you.

B (42:47)

Much better than the Beach Boys. 25 years together a celebration in Waikiki. Beach Boys. An American band.

A (42:55)

An American. They're an American band.

B (42:58)

An American. I like that. It's an American band. It's not like the American band. It's just an American band.

A (43:03)

Well, it's like a life when people do that for like photography. It's like understated.

B (43:09)

Yeah, but it's a documentary about the Beach Boys, released 1985, directed by somebody. Do you remember who?

A (43:19)

Werner Herzog.

B (43:21)

Directed by Malcolm Leo. He's done documentaries about Elvis, the Beach Boys and rock and roll.

A (43:29)

Oh, I like rock and roll.

B (43:31)

Three great subjects.

A (43:32)

Actually.

B (43:32)

It says that he's. Well, no, this is from 2012. His Wikipedia page is basically like a stub. It's got like two sentences, the last one of which is. Leo is currently working on a documentary about Jerry Garcia based on a three hour interview he recorded in 1987. But it links to a Deadline Hollywood article from 2012. So that presumably never gonna come out. Anyways, An American Band did come out in 1985. And it is. It is the story of the Beach Boys. It is a biography. Biography, Documentary. Biographical, documentary, you could say actually of the Beach Boys from the beginning, right up until that point in time, 1985. And this is a very. I had low expectations going into this. You know, I had heard vaguely positive things about it, but wasn't necessarily expecting a whole lot to come of it. I was very impressed by this film. I don't know about you.

A (44:31)

I was. I had a good time watching this. Brian is an incredible. Being very creative. I've been called a genius by a number of people. I think basically because I had an ability to put harmonics together in rock and roll.

B (44:57)

It's very well done for what it is and for when it comes from. I think the strength of this thing is in the fact that it just relies so much on primary sources. There's so much actual footage of the Beach Boys and we kind of take that for granted at this point that you can just go to YouTube and pull up any random old performance that they ever gave that was captured on any piece of film ever. But there's a lot of really cool kind of crate digging shit from the early days, from the middle years and even from the late years here. It actually relies a lot on footage from the. It's okay documentary, you know, the Brian's back type stuff from 15 big ones era that wasn't actually even in that documentary. Somehow this guy got access to tons of that footage. And there's a lot of Brian in bed. There's a lot of Dennis and Carl, you know, hanging out in the studio talking shit about Murray. There's a lot of footage of Brian's 34th birthday with Paul McCartney in tow. But it's all stuff that was not included in the original Beach Boys. It's okay special. So that was some of the coolest shit to see.

A (46:01)

Yeah. I think when we originally talked about that, for some reason the section with the surfing cops was cut out.

B (46:09)

Or we didn't have the Lucian Aykroyd that's in this.

A (46:12)

That's.

B (46:12)

I didn't really like, I could have done without that. I thought that was kind of mean to me.

A (46:17)

I thought it was all right. I thought it was like one of the better. It aged better than a lot of the stuff that Belushi and Ackroyd have ever done. Like, it was just like. You know, it's a. It's. It's just made for that one bit, that one line where they say, come on a safari with us in a cop voice, which is funny. And I like that they get in the water with him, too. It's like.

B (46:40)

That makes it a little.

A (46:41)

It's a lot better than if they had just stood and watched as he had to try to surf.

B (46:47)

Pitiful Brian Wilson trying to get on a surfboard in 1976, though, that whole thing. Belushi and Acronym. Just like the Blues Brothers. I know we've talked about them before, just completely alien.

A (46:57)

You've never seen them.

B (46:58)

Foreign culture to me. I've seen it. I just like, what's the deal? It's just like these guys playing shitty blues music. And they're like, not that funny. Is that the whole draw?

A (47:11)

It's Elwood and the other one, Dingle. I wouldn't think it's blues, you know.

B (47:20)

But anyways, in American Band. I think what is impressive to me about this movie. And I couldn't help but think about the Disney documentary that we watched last year. I don't know if that was in your mind at all, but this actually tells a pretty frank story about the Beach Boys.

A (47:37)

This is more accurate and direct, thoughtfully conceived than the Disney one could ever.

B (47:45)

Miles beyond the Disneyland.

A (47:46)

God, that was a piece of shit, wasn't it?

B (47:48)

What a dog.

A (47:51)

Hated that.

B (47:52)

Yeah. Because if anyone remembers, that movie basically ends in 1966. And they just kind of fast forward up until from 19 smile through the it's okay Era. And then it literally ends in 1976. And there's, like, some really, you know, cloying footage of the Beach Boys. The surviving Beach Boys with a clearly diminished Brian reuniting at Pacific. What's the name of that place? Pacific Cove. No. Something Cove.

A (48:20)

Paradise Cove. Yeah.

B (48:22)

Yeah.

A (48:22)

No, that sucked. And I don't even know. I don't remember if they, like, acknowledged Dennis's death.

B (48:29)

Well, they do. But actually, did they. The main thing I remember about the Dennis thing was that, like, he's painted as, like, a villain because, like, he and Charles Manson were in cahoots or something, and Mike was. I don't know. We don't need to relitigate that shitty movie.

A (48:44)

That was terrible. But. And this, I will say, like, this has. It's the best documentary about the band that exists, I think, in terms of, like, a holistic view of their career. And the main reason why, beyond just being mostly comprised of valuable footage, is the inclusion of the bit of Dennis, like, at the end when he sings.

B (49:13)

Oh, man.

A (49:14)

Which was brutal. Genuinely harrowing. Brutal to watch. Like, really, really hard to watch. It was flattering the way the whole country, from the President on down, stood behind us. But we had something else on our minds. My brother Dennis was in pretty bad shape. He had a problem with drugs and alcohol, and it wouldn't go away. That summer we played Atlantic City. It was the last Fourth of July concert with the original Beach Boys. Folks, if you knew what it felt.

B (49:47)

Like to be up here singing and playing, you know, in front of you.

A (49:57)

The joy it brings to us. Thank you so much. You are so beautiful.

B (50:18)

God bless you.

A (50:22)

The Beach Boys. Happy birthday, America. Hey.

B (50:32)

It's footage of Dennis at, you know, I guess what was his last appearance with the Beach Boys in 1980. Summer, 1983 and Atlantic City. Yeah. And he's singing, and he. Even beyond the singing, it was the speaking voice to me that really, like, he could barely. He could barely talk, enunciate words.

A (50:51)

Like, you know, it wasn't just hoarse or, like. Like, he had a bug in his throat. It was like his throat was like.

B (50:58)

It's like his vocal cords, like, didn't work anymore.

A (51:01)

Ye. And he's saying, like, you know, I like about how much it means to them to be on stage.

B (51:08)

He's like, we love to perform for you. We love to make you happy or something.

A (51:12)

Yeah. And he's, like, totally trash. And he just looks, like, horrible, like.

B (51:17)

Yeah.

A (51:18)

And I do think that it's actually Important to have that, like, throughout all of this. It was like the first time I've seen any actual footage of him in that state and at that time. And. And I think the montage that they have about his death in this and the way that they deal with it is. Yeah, it's about as. As good a tribute as you could have. It's very affecting. I. I found myself very moved by it. And the weird, like, the very stilted obligatory press conference that they.

B (51:58)

Oh, man.

A (51:58)

Yeah.

B (51:58)

There's footage I meant to watch that there is. I think. I think that whole thing is on YouTube somewhere, which I should, you know, sit down and watch at some point. But even the little clips that you get in this documentary are pretty. Like when Brian is just like, I've lost my father, I've lost my brother. It's very hurtful to me. I'm extremely upset about it and I don't really want to talk about it anymore.

A (52:20)

Yeah. Is there a part where they do forever in this?

B (52:27)

I think, yeah, forever's at the end, you know, when. Not the end end, but like in that Dennis, you know, montage time.

A (52:36)

Yeah.

B (52:36)

After he's sung his completely, you know, torched, fucked up thing. It's like a. Forever from, you know, when Dennis was Dennis.

A (52:44)

Yeah. With like, footage of him running around and being happy and. And yeah, it just made me really think about how great that song is, actually.

B (52:54)

It's a great song. Sunflower. Great record.

A (52:57)

Just generally, like the fact that they address, like. I mean, I kind of. I love these things where they're always just like walking out from behind a hedge or something, like, with their hands in their pockets.

B (53:10)

Like when Al shows up in the, like, football coach uniform and stuff and.

A (53:15)

He'S talking, like the video that you might see, like, before you go on a ride at Disneyland, right. They're like, you're about to ride one of the greatest rides in Beach Boys history at Hawthorne.

B (53:26)

We were on the football team together.

A (53:28)

We played in the backfield.

B (53:29)

And I remember once we were in.

A (53:30)

A huddle and the cheerleaders were singing the Hawthorne fight song. And right in the middle of the huddle, Brian starts singing the melody. Onward Cougars. Onward Cougars. And of course, our favorite place was the double reverse handoff with four part harmony. Ready. It was only natural that when we first started recording, our songs would reflect our surroundings. And growing up in Southern California, the beach life was what we knew best. That's what our music was all about. That. That is kind of the tone. But during the. In the. In spite of that they are talking frankly about, like, at this time, we are really out of step with the culture. And it was pretty hard on the band, but then we went to Europe where everyone loved us.

B (54:21)

I think. I mean, I think a lot of the beats in this. In this film are kind of the beats that have become sort of, you know, standard received wisdom about the Beach Boys story. Like the Monterey Pop section of this film, for instance. Right. The Beach Boys obviously had pulled. Were supposed to play Monterey Pop. They pulled out because Brian was having issues. And then after that, you know, kind of the culture left him in the dust. That story is told here and that point is really drawn, you know, kind of the. The post Smile, you know, Shaggy, smiley smile, friends 2020 era is, you know, is. Is remarked on as a period of really good music and interesting music, but not necessarily, like, successful music for the Beach Boys, which is important for them as a band, you know, that prized success above many other things. Obviously, the, you know, the Dennis thing, we've already said the whole. Brian's back. You know, there's some really candid conversations with Brian here where he's like, yeah, I was just. I was high, I was fucked up. I was not feeling good. I had a lot of trouble at this time. I think that this sort of set the tone or set the template for a lot of these Beach Boys kind of myths that we've kind of come to rely on in the ensuing years.

A (55:42)

Yeah, well, they're codifying them in. In this. Like, they are. They're only received wisdom because it was reiterated enough times. And this is like, one of the least adulterated versions of the. The story, like, I mean, has a lot of. I wouldn't even say it's. It lies by omission. It. It doesn't do that, really. I think that the Disney one feels genuinely like it's lying.

B (56:09)

That's manipulative. Yeah, that's like, you know, actively trying to tell a different story. And I think this at least is telling. Is telling the story. It's not telling it, you know, comprehensively necessarily, but we're not trying to make you believe that one thing happened when another actually did.

A (56:27)

I don't even remember if the Disney one, like, actually mentions, like, drugs and alcohol.

B (56:33)

I think it does, but just, like, in a very, like, passing kind of manner.

A (56:39)

And this does. But in ways where it's, like, coming from their own mouths about, like, this is like, he. He was struggling with drugs and alcohol. And, like, then, you know, you. You do see it, like, just whoever edited this new. That showing that little portion of Dennis on stage was like, it's not an insignificant inclusion. It, like, actually is you. You don't even have to know who he is to be like, oh, man.

B (57:10)

Yeah, it's major. And I think that's. I think that's why they would have made the choices they made with that Disney documentary. Which, again, ends, for all intents and purposes, in 1976. With Brian's back, you know, he's back. Here we go. Happily ever after in Beach Boys land. Obviously, as we know, and as anyone who's been listening knows, there are many darker years ahead for Dennis, obviously, as well as for Brian himself. He gets even worse than he had been in the years leading up to 1976. But by just cutting it off right there and saying happily ever after, they can kind of just skip over. Skip over all of that and not reckon with it, not try to make it part of the story. And that, I think, is absolutely something that this documentary is willing to do. There's also just a lot of really cool footage, you know?

A (58:08)

Yeah, there's some rare footage.

B (58:10)

There's a lot of rare footage. Exactly.

A (58:12)

Some, like the part, like, during the Heroes and Villains thing. Oh.

B (58:17)

When it's, like, Carl and Dennis and they're kind of morphing into each other and jumping around the patio or what?

A (58:25)

Psychedelic Bel Air era.

B (58:28)

Yeah. I think that's probably at Brian's house. I loved seeing him during the Pet Sounds era. Him and Marilyn were in the pool, and Banana and Louie the Dogs. Like, Brian was, like, holding one of them in the pool and just kind of, like, taking him around. That's beautiful stuff. That's great. There's a great clip of them playing Okie from Muskogee also in, like, 1971, I think, in Central Park. That's around the Grateful Dead concert era. Al's in his pilgrim hat type thing. The Do It Again video, where they're all in, like, the Bee Gees. White suit.

A (59:03)

Yeah. That. I'd never seen that before. And then right after that, they say, like, we were very out of step with the toughest.

B (59:09)

Clearly.

A (59:10)

I also liked the part with Ronald Reagan. The whole drama.

B (59:15)

Oh, the whole Fourth of July thing.

A (59:16)

Yeah.

B (59:17)

And, yeah, I thought about going into that in one of our previous episodes. It's kind of.

A (59:20)

I mean.

B (59:21)

Yeah, it doesn't really matter. It's not. It was a big thing at the time. Like, every book you read about the Beach Boys makes a big deal out of this July 4th drama. It is so fucking funny that that whoever that goon was, that guy thought.

A (59:33)

That the Beach Boys were bringing the wrong element to the Capitol.

B (59:37)

The beach boys in 1984 were a hard rock band.

A (59:41)

You have to be like, something more than, like, what. What are you?

B (59:47)

Just. That guy, you just unzip him and a giant lizard emerges.

A (59:51)

There's too many humans coming to the. What else we got the. We do get a little bit of Carl talking about. You might have forgotten, but it is in there. Carl promoting his music.

B (60:10)

They do do the. Carl.

A (60:11)

Yeah.

B (60:11)

What is he. He says something like, you know, I. There was a lot of rock and.

A (60:14)

Roll, a lot of rhythm.

B (60:16)

Well, but he says, like, there's rock and roll in rhythm and blues. And I just had to let that out of me because I can't. Couldn't do that in the Beach Boys. And then there's. There's 30 seconds or 60 seconds of him and his band performing Hold Me. Remember that?

A (60:30)

Yes.

B (60:30)

Remember that?

A (60:31)

I'm watching it right now. Yeah. Hold Me. I can feel a glow.

B (60:36)

Just a little tighter.

A (60:38)

Yeah.

B (60:39)

Never hear that one again.

A (60:40)

So many different hats worn by Mike. Like, in the scene right after that, he's wearing this, like, tiny little cowboy hat.

B (60:47)

I love how.

A (60:48)

Triangular cowboy hat.

B (60:50)

I guess I have been aware of this. But this documentary, I think, really brings this point home because you get a lot of performance of Mike from the beginning to the end. Well, the sequence, but his movements even. He's doing a lot of little limp wrist things and kind of flouncing around up on stage.

A (61:08)

Yeah, he does do the little.

B (61:09)

God bless him for doing it. But I feel like Mike Love Himself would be like. Yeah, it's a little fruity.

A (61:15)

The wrist thing, I think, is just. He seems to get out of being like a front man by just kind of affecting, like an. I don't care so much. Little, like, strutting around, like kind of a silly walk, which, you know, whatever gets you through the performance. Like, that's. That's sort of something that comes up a lot. There are a couple times when, like, you just, like, see the band from a distance and. And his movie, he was just, like, barely moving. Like, he's like, you know, there. It's like joyous song. Like, some of the music just sounds so great and you're reminded of, like. Yeah, this is just, like, bright and colorful and cheerful and interesting music. And then he's like. I think it's during Heroes and Villains. You can see him just like he's made of stone. Like, sort of, like twitching every couple beats.

B (62:14)

Also, Worth noting that this is where the world first heard Fire from Smile Again, something we take for granted at this point, having, you know, the wealth of Smile material at our fingertips. But they're actually playing a section from, you know, Fire the Elements when they're going through the whole Smile story. They got a bunch of great footage of them in their firemen hats, you know, running around doing their little skits. But that was the first time anyone had ever even heard that music, at least, you know, in official circumstances. So I think it did a service to the Beach Boys community, did an honor to the Beach Boys themselves. This documentary, I think, like you said, far and away the best Beach Boys documentary that I'm aware that I've seen. I know there are more to watch that I haven't seen before. I think Endless Harmony is another one, but this one can wholeheartedly recommend. If you're gonna spend 100 minutes watching some Beach Boy shit on YouTube, go to this one. Before you go to the 25th anniversary celebration, who's the wildest group in the world?

A (63:19)

What do we think above all others? You mean not the in person? Hey, it sounds like a party.

B (63:29)

Everyone who's listening to this podcast knows this story by heart at this point. But show it to your friends, families.

A (63:36)

Neighbors, uncles, friends and brothers.

B (63:40)

Uncles, friends and brothers to educate them about an American band, the Beach Boys. Two stars for that documentary.

A (63:49)

One, two. Yeah.

B (63:52)

Well, you got the whole thing this episode. You got a one star, a two star, and a three star.

A (63:59)

Yeah.

B (63:59)

Including the ice cream soda. So that's a Jokerman's hat trick right there.

A (64:06)

Yeah, I didn't. I don't think that's ever happened before.

B (64:09)

Well, this is probably the first time we've done a soda and two things on top of that.

A (64:14)

The soda scored better than either of.

B (64:16)

These movies taken together. The movies are equally good as one small can of this soda.

A (64:27)

Jokerman serve in the USA yeah Serve in the USA if everybody had an ocean yeah Cross the USA Now Everybody been surfing, yeah Not California hey, yeah Surf in the USA yeah Surf in the USA I doing all right? That's good.

B (65:01)

You know, me and the Beach Boys.

A (65:02)

Come from different coasts, but we dig the same things. Beautiful girls, beautiful cars. There's one girl I really dig.

B (65:10)

Jersey girl.

A (65:11)

Do you Jersey? What do they got in the U.S. say, sir, in the U.S. thanks for your help, boss.