Joy Podcast Episode Summary: Denise Mina on Finding Happiness Through Writing and Life’s Complexities

Podcast Information:

• Title: Joy, a Podcast
• Host: Craig Ferguson
• Guest: Denise Mina
• Release Date: November 12, 2024

1. Introduction

In this engaging episode of Joy, host Craig Ferguson sits down with renowned Scottish writer Denise Mina to explore the intricacies of finding joy amidst life's challenges. Their conversation delves into Mina's creative process, the balance between light and dark themes in her work, the societal expectations placed on authors, and personal anecdotes that have shaped their lives.

2. The Balance of Light and Dark in Writing

Craig Ferguson opens the dialogue by praising Mina's ability to infuse her work with both positivity and darkness. He remarks:

"You are always very positive and cheerful, but some of your work is the darkest I've ever read. Do you get out all your dark shit when you're writing?" ([05:25])

Denise Mina responds by challenging the binary perception of light and dark, emphasizing the complexity and mixture inherent in both life and storytelling:

"We tend to think of light and dark as binaries. Actually, there's a lot more mix. And I see that in your comedy all the time." ([06:30])

This exchange highlights Mina's belief that integrating both elements creates a more authentic and relatable narrative, making the lightness in her stories essential to rendering the darker aspects more bearable.

3. Interplay Between Darkness and Comedy

The conversation naturally shifts to the relationship between dark themes and humor in their respective fields. Denise Mina draws parallels between crime writing and comedy, suggesting that dark humor can make distressing subjects more approachable:

"There is nothing brighter than standing up in front of an audience full of people and trying to make them laugh." ([09:20])

Craig Ferguson concurs, reflecting on his experiences with stand-up comedy and the cathartic effect of humor in confronting personal and societal issues.

4. The Social Dynamics of Being an Author

Craig Ferguson probes into the necessity for authors to engage socially, particularly through conventions and book tours, despite being inherently introverted:

"It's part of life now for authors, isn't it, that you have to do all that. You have to be much more social." ([10:31])

Denise Mina candidly shares her discomfort with such interactions, highlighting the disconnect between her real-life persona and her public image:

"I'm just in a room full of women of my age who look a bit like me. That's not who reads my books." ([11:54])

This segment underscores the challenges authors face in bridging the gap between their private selves and their public readership, often leading to a sense of isolation despite outward social engagements.

5. Historical Fiction vs. Crime Fiction: Market Realities

The discussion turns to the literary market's demands, with Denise Mina expressing her passion for historical fiction while acknowledging its limited commercial viability compared to crime fiction:

"Writing historical fiction is as delicious as writing crime fiction, but there just aren't the sales in it." ([42:13])

Craig Ferguson empathizes, recognizing the tension between creative fulfillment and financial sustainability:

"You forget that people have to make a living, particularly if they're in artistic endeavors." ([42:35])

Denise Mina elaborates on the rewards and challenges of writing within these genres, advocating for crime fiction's depth and its capacity to address significant themes despite its market-driven nature.

6. Personal Anecdotes: From Glasgow to the Ubiquitous Chip

The hosts reminisce about their shared experiences working at the Ubiquitous Chip, a renowned restaurant in Glasgow. Denise Mina shares humorous and gritty stories from her time there, providing insight into their formative years:

"We had a video camera at the top. And at the end of the night, we'd all stand and watch the video monitor and kill ourselves laughing." ([23:37])

Craig Ferguson adds his own memories, reflecting on the camaraderie and the chaotic environment that fostered their later successes:

"People who work at the Chip were full of pretentious wankers like us who had aspirations." ([22:30])

7. Addiction, Sobriety, and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the conversation delves into their struggles with addiction and the journey toward sobriety. Denise Mina recounts her battles with substances and the impact on her personal and professional life:

"I couldn't do [performing stand-up] because if the audience hated me, I just don't care. I have died on stage really talking badly." ([09:33])

Craig Ferguson echoes similar sentiments, discussing how overcoming addiction has influenced his career and personal relationships:

"We both ended up where we were because of that influence of that kind of hilarious despair of the mid-80s." ([54:56])

Their openness about these challenges underscores the complex relationship between creativity, personal struggles, and the pursuit of joy.

8. Upcoming Projects and Travels

The episode also touches on Mina's upcoming projects and her frequent travels. She mentions:

"I'm just finishing a book this week, and then we're going to the QE2 having a festival on it in Los Angeles." ([55:53])

Craig Ferguson shares his own travel plans, inviting Mina to join him in Paris, which highlights the blend of professional commitment and personal camaraderie between the two.

9. Reflections on the Political Climate

Towards the end of the conversation, Craig Ferguson and Denise Mina discuss their perspectives on the current political climate in the United States. They express skepticism about the effectiveness of politics and frustration with its divisiveness:

"Politicians of this generation are crap at their job because they have a job to do. Do your job." ([63:27])

This segment reflects their broader themes of seeking joy and authenticity in a world marked by conflict and instability.

10. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with warm farewells and mutual appreciation for each other's company and creative endeavors. Craig Ferguson expresses gratitude for Mina's friendship and the enriching conversation:

"We've sorted the high stuff, and I feel like I've spent half an hour in your kitchen and I always feel better for that." ([63:35])

Denise Mina reciprocates, emphasizing the value of their relationship amidst their individual pursuits of joy and fulfillment.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Craig Ferguson ([05:25]): "You are always very positive and cheerful, but some of your work is the darkest I've ever read. Do you get out all your dark shit when you're writing?"

• Denise Mina ([06:30]): "We tend to think of light and dark as binaries. Actually, there's a lot more mix."

• Denise Mina ([09:20]): "There is nothing brighter than standing up in front of an audience full of people and trying to make them laugh."

• Denise Mina ([11:54]): "I'm just in a room full of women of my age who look a bit like me. That's not who reads my books."

• Denise Mina ([42:13]): "Writing historical fiction is as delicious as writing crime fiction, but there just aren't the sales in it."

• Denise Mina ([63:27]): "Politicians of this generation are crap at their job because they have a job to do. Do your job."

Conclusion

This episode of Joy offers a profound exploration of the delicate dance between darkness and light in both personal lives and creative works. Through candid conversations, Craig Ferguson and Denise Mina shed light on the complexities of finding happiness, the sacrifices of artistic integrity for market demands, and the enduring power of friendship in navigating life's tumultuous journey.