George Hahn

Summary

Joy Podcast Episode Summary: George Hahn with Craig Ferguson

Released on October 29, 2024, "Joy" is a podcast hosted by Craig Ferguson under the iHeartPodcasts banner. In this episode, Ferguson engages in a heartfelt and insightful conversation with George Hahn, exploring themes of joy, sobriety, personal growth, and the challenges of modern life.

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Introduction: Connecting Through Social Media

Craig Ferguson opens the episode by introducing his guest, George Hahn, describing him as a gentleman of extraordinary style, wit, and grace. Ferguson shares a personal anecdote about how he first encountered George through social media during the lockdown period.

Craig Ferguson [03:21]: "You were my lockdown Internet boyfriend. It's 100% true."

George responds with humor, highlighting his excitement to be part of the podcast.

George Hahn [03:25]: "That's because I'm eager and excited to speak with you."

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Early Life and Family Background

George delves into his upbringing in Lakewood, a working-middle-class suburb of Cleveland. He provides a glimpse into his family dynamics, being the youngest of five children from a blended family.

George Hahn [09:45]: "We're the youngest of five. My mother was married and widowed before she met my dad."

Ferguson inquires about George's familial influences, particularly his connection to the performing arts.

Craig Ferguson [15:01]: "You mentioned your father and I saw a media post or something you posted some time ago. It was a rather moving post about your father taking you to New York City. Was that the first time that you went?"

George reminisces about his father, an actor who pursued theater at Notre Dame and later transitioned into advertising and marketing under family pressure.

George Hahn [16:16]: "He was an actor in Lor. He went into advertising and marketing and he was good at it. That's what he ended up kind of doing."

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Career and Creative Pursuits

The conversation shifts to George's involvement in the performing arts. He recounts his early days in theater, working with directors like Charles Nelson Riley, and his experiences at Joe Allen on West 46th Street.

George Hahn [07:26]: "He used to come in during runs of that show. He would go, run, Cinderella."

George shares his stint working with Joan Rivers, managing her social media presence until her untimely passing in 2014. This role allowed him to craft jokes and engage with one of comedy's most iconic figures.

George Hahn [52:40]: "I ran her social media and I was writing, really writing jokes."

Ferguson expresses admiration for Joan Rivers and reflects on the loss of influential voices in comedy and literature.

Craig Ferguson [52:14]: "Gore Vidal, Joan Rivers. Two essential names that... are sadly missed right now."

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Sobriety and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the episode focuses on George's journey to sobriety. Having been sober for 22 years, George discusses the challenges and transformations that come with maintaining a sober lifestyle, especially in the high-paced environment of New York City.

Craig Ferguson [20:24]: "But you're sober, right?"

George Hahn [20:30]: "22 years."

George contrasts his sobriety with his earlier years in the industry, where substance use was prevalent. He shares insights on how sobriety has enhanced his personal and professional life, allowing him to become more self-aware and less inhibited.

George Hahn [31:34]: "I have become less inhibited, less self-conscious."

Ferguson relates by sharing his own experiences with substance use and the myths surrounding creativity and addiction.

Craig Ferguson [23:13]: "I really think it's fucking horseshit."

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Mental Health and Therapy

The discussion transitions to mental health, with George opening up about his battle with post-COVID anxiety. He describes the debilitating panic attacks he experienced and the steps he took to overcome them, including therapy and learning proper breathing techniques.

George Hahn [39:34]: "I did. This was what I learned later. The litany of these horrible feelings were from a weird, long Covid."

George credits therapy and resources like James Nestor's book "Breath" for his recovery, emphasizing the importance of mental health support.

George Hahn [41:17]: "A game changer. The big takeaway. Inhale through the nose."

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Impact of Social Media and Modern Society

Both hosts reflect on the pervasive influence of social media and its effects on mental well-being. George discusses the allure of validation through likes and comments, while Ferguson shares his struggles with imposter syndrome and self-perception.

George Hahn [31:41]: "The videos I became known for making on social media... I would have been too self-conscious to actually do it."

Craig Ferguson [32:26]: "All the time. I think it's funny. I think of you as being super confident."

They critique the superficial aspects of modern life, including the obsession with branding and the pressures faced by younger generations in an increasingly connected world.

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Reflections on Creativity and Substance Use

The hosts engage in a candid conversation about the romanticized notion that substance use fuels creativity. They debunk this myth by sharing personal anecdotes and highlighting the detrimental effects of addiction on one's life and relationships.

Craig Ferguson [25:34]: "I fell for the myth of the drugs and the alcohol make you lose and creative."

George Hahn [25:20]: "These guys who are extolled as your, you know, you're brooding like male archetype heroes. He was a mess."

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Personal Challenges and Body Image

George addresses his ongoing struggle with body image and maintaining a healthy weight, a challenge complicated by his past habits and the demands of his career. He discusses the discipline required to achieve his fitness goals and the emotional aspects tied to physical appearance.

George Hahn [36:00]: "I'm well aware of that. And I don't think I have, like, body dysmorphia, but it's just. I can't fit into the suits that I invested a lot of tailoring into."

Ferguson empathizes, sharing his own battles with weight and body image, illustrating the universal nature of these challenges.

Craig Ferguson [37:28]: "But I feel like...I don't think there's a body type that's perfect for everybody, but I know for me, if I carry extra weight, I feel ashamed."

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Influential Figures and Intellectual Pursuits

The conversation touches upon influential intellectuals like Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley, highlighting their impact on modern thought and media. George reminisces about his interactions with these figures, emphasizing the value of articulate and dissenting voices in society.

George Hahn [56:29]: "Legendary. Watching those two cats go at it."

Craig Ferguson [56:43]: "Gore Vidal, Joan Rivers. Two essential names that... are sadly missed right now."

They advocate for the preservation of such voices to inspire critical thinking and creativity in younger generations.

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Closing Thoughts: Building Connections and Future Endeavors

As the episode draws to a close, both Ferguson and Hahn express mutual admiration and a desire to cultivate their budding friendship. They discuss potential future collaborations and the importance of genuine connections in fostering joy and personal fulfillment.

George Hahn [60:24]: "You make my day with these kind words... thank you for having me on your podcast, Craig."

Craig Ferguson [60:46]: "Keep doing what you're doing. You are a force for good and high quality entertainment in a world of... a giant Shit sandwich."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Joy" offers a deep dive into George Hahn's life, exploring his journey through sobriety, his dedication to the arts, and his insights into modern societal challenges. Through candid conversation and shared vulnerabilities, Ferguson and Hahn exemplify the essence of finding joy amidst personal and external struggles.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Ferguson [03:21]: "You were my lockdown Internet boyfriend. It's 100% true."

• George Hahn [20:30]: "22 years."

• George Hahn [31:34]: "I have become less inhibited, less self-conscious."

• Craig Ferguson [25:34]: "I fell for the myth of the drugs and the alcohol make you lose and creative."

• George Hahn [41:17]: "A game changer. The big takeaway. Inhale through the nose."

---

For those seeking inspiration on maintaining joy and navigating personal challenges, this episode provides valuable perspectives and relatable experiences from George Hahn and Craig Ferguson.

Transcript

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan Partisan. It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty. Watch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow.

[George Hahn]

Beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tis the season to be jollier. Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. It's better over here. ATT customers switching to T Mobile has never been easier.

[George Hahn]

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[Craig Ferguson]

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[George Hahn]

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[Craig Ferguson]

The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire tour is on sale now. It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me. Buy tickets, bring your loved ones or don't come and see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.

[George Hahn]

I'm not your dad.

[Craig Ferguson]

You come or don't come, but you should at least know it's happening. And it is. The tour kicks off late September and goes through the end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available@the craigfergusonshow.com tour they're available at the craigfergusonshow dot com tour or at your local outlet in your region. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. My guest today is a gentleman of extraordinary style and wit and grace and humor. He is a very, very clever with a very interesting take. Of course, he lives in New York City, and of course, he's originally from Cleveland. And of course he is George Hahn. George, congratulations. In all the time I've been doing this podcast, which is not that long, you're the first person who was early.

[George Hahn]

Really?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[George Hahn]

That's because I'm eager and I'm eager and excited to speak with you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I think that's believable. And also the. I think you're the only person I've ever had on this guest. I've ever had on, I think, anywhere where I don't know you except from social media. I only know you from social media because I have to make a confession to you. You were my lockdown Internet boyfriend. It's 100% true.

[George Hahn]

God, that's the hottest thing and if anything, anyone's ever said to me in the last five years. So thank you for that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I was in Scotland during the lockdown, and you were making these stylish, angry, passionate, but also very cool little videos in New York. And I was like, I wish I could get back to New York and live in an apartment in the Upper west side with George. We'd go to the opera. We'd go and see things. We'd go see. I have this idea of you that you are a complete Upper west side, stylish, kind of sophisticated. Tell me I'm wrong or tell me I'm right.

[George Hahn]

Well, I'll tell you something. It's strange that you bring that up. I was thinking today that I'm starting to sort of become that person in the weirdest way that I never. That was never on the itinerary. For example, I will tell you, as we record this tonight, I am going to see. No, no, no, let me rewind. Earlier this week, I went to the opera. I went to the Metropolitan Opera House and I saw a production of Tosca. I'd never. I haven't been to the opera in maybe 10 years. So it's so funny that you're mentioning this now, because I just went back to the Met for the first time in a decade, and it was glorious. My friend is a he' sober buddy of mine, and he said, let's go to the diner, old school. And then we went to the opera, all dressed up and had this amazing, fantastic night. And I just felt so, like, nourished creatively. And then tonight going to see. Are you sitting down? You're sitting down and you're wearing a tie and everything. Tonight I am going to Radio City Music hall to see none other than Barry Manilow. So.

[Craig Ferguson]

You fucking bastard.

[George Hahn]

Treat me the same. Treat me the same.

[Craig Ferguson]

I. My God. I lost the first time I was ever nominated for an Emmy or for anything really. I lost it to Barry Manilow or he won it. I was in the same category as him for a moment, though, apparently what kind of late night shows and Barry Manilows were lumped together at one point in the history of show business back in the day.

[George Hahn]

Interesting.

[Craig Ferguson]

But he rightfully won the best Barry Manilow Award. But here's the thing. I went to the opera last year. I went to see Labo M at the Met. And I have a problem with that opera a little bit. Because that woman that says that she's got TB and starts singing about having tb, she doesn't look to me like she's sick.

[George Hahn]

Yeah, she looks a little too good.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, she looks pretty healthy.

[George Hahn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Robust character.

[George Hahn]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Are you a fan of the opera?

[George Hahn]

I am peripherally a fan of the opera. And what that means is that I. For years I was making websites just to make a living because it was a skill I had in my pocket. And one of my clients was a manager of opera artists. So I got familiar with the names of them, the composers of them, and got very familiar with, you know, what each of them sounded like because I was uploading audio and video samples of performances. So this guy represented. Yeah. Directors and singers and. Yeah. In fact, one of his clients was Charles Nelson Riley.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, he wasn't at the opera, but he sort of was, in a way.

[George Hahn]

He was a director. He directed productions.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did he really? I did that.

[George Hahn]

He was. When I was a young wannabe actorine in the early days of New York City. We're going back to 95, 96, 97. I was also a waitress at Joe Allen, of course.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[George Hahn]

On West 46th Street, Theater Row. Still a favorite personally, anyway. And Charles Nelson Riley at the time was directing a production of the Gin Game with Charles during. And Julie Harris. And he used to come in during runs of that show, during the run of that show. Come in and harass. Like today. He would have been slapped so hard with a lawsuit, like practically pinching us in the ass.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[George Hahn]

And as we would Walk past the table. He would go, run, Cinderella. Run, Cinderella. And I, you know, some of the other kids had a problem with it. I thought he was hilarious and I loved it.

[Craig Ferguson]

It would not be acceptable today. No, it would absolutely not be that. I think a lot of. A lot of people I worked with back in the day in theater in London, it would have been tricky for them now, I think.

[George Hahn]

Pretty tricky, I would imagine.

[Craig Ferguson]

Enough of that. Let me ask you this, because as far as I can glean from social media, which is the only way I know you, although I think, and this is, consider this podcast, me applying to be your friend.

[George Hahn]

You're in.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, great. So this is my application, but I. As far as I've found out about your walking, glean from your posts, you're from Cleveland, right?

[George Hahn]

Correct. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you're from. Are you from Shaker Heights in Cleveland?

[George Hahn]

No, I'm on the other side of the town. Shaker Heights is a western or rather east side suburb. I'm from a westside suburb called Lakewood.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that the. Is that posh? Because I thought Shaker Heights is posh. Shaker Heights is posh, but Lakewood is not posh.

[George Hahn]

No. Lakewood was always working middle class. There were some. Now Lakewood's got some posh pockets to it, but by and large, if you took that whole zip code, it would. I would call it staunchly middle class.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, so you grew up. It's a very kind of you. Tell me how it was. I think of you as probably being in a kind of Aussie and Harriet environment. Is that right? Was it. Or a little more American Gothic? What was it?

[George Hahn]

I would say maybe a little bit of both. I think my parents, looking back, were just sort of alarmingly normal. There was no, like, in my upbringing, like in our nuclear family. I'm the youngest of five. My mother was married and widowed before and had four kids when she met my dad. So my older siblings are technically half. And.

[Craig Ferguson]

I.

[George Hahn]

We had it pretty good, I say. I would say that we were. We were, I think, fairly punished when we screwed up and never physically. And we were rewarded when we did things very well and we were loved and birthdays were, like, almost embarrassingly celebrated. Like, I. We had a pretty good. I would say.

[Craig Ferguson]

So what leads you? What led you in? Because I. I feel like you. You're a theatery person, and that's a very specific kind of kid. Were you a theater kid?

[George Hahn]

I was a performative kid. I was never. The first time I engaged in anything theatrical with a Stage and a script and a director was in college. But the Hans themselves are funny. We have a. Like, my dad was funny. You know my cousin, Kathryn Hahn?

[Craig Ferguson]

I do. She's crazy. Katherine. She's delightful, but she's nuts.

[George Hahn]

Welcome to the Fairy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Nice. Yeah.

[George Hahn]

And she adores you.

[Craig Ferguson]

I adore her.

[George Hahn]

It's a love fest. We have to get together and have a hug fest.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that maybe the Hans and the Fergusons should maybe have a Thanksgiving together or something.

[George Hahn]

I think that's a. I am down for that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I mean, we've moved back to New England now, so we're American again. I think we can do that.

[George Hahn]

You are?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I was in Scotland for a while and I was like, no, I think Proust. You know, I got a bit recherching my Tomps Perdue and I think, no, no, you cannot go back.

[George Hahn]

I was just in your country not long ago.

[Craig Ferguson]

You were. What were you doing?

[George Hahn]

I have a friend. My friend Scott Galloway celebrated a birthday for himself. A 60th. He called it a 50th birthday in a beautiful old hotel in braemar. So for 48 hours, we were at the Fife Arms Hotel. It was incredible.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, the queen died, I think in Braemar might be right.

[George Hahn]

We saw the king's king in his motorcade on our way to the airport from the hotel.

[Craig Ferguson]

They got a big house there.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. Is it Balmoral Castle?

[Craig Ferguson]

Balmoral, Yeah. I think that's Balmoral. Yeah.

[George Hahn]

He literally drove past. I saw him in the backseat of his car because they stopped our traffic because we were en route to Aberdeen Airport and there was the king. Anyway, did you have a nice.

[Craig Ferguson]

Was that your first time in Scotland?

[George Hahn]

Totally. And I thought I was so charmed by it. Could I live there full time? No. I like the sun.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

And I like a salad now and then, but I love. It's beautiful. Oh, my God, Craig. It's like. That is beautiful.

[Craig Ferguson]

It is beautiful.

[George Hahn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

It is like Skyfall. I actually. I love Skyfall as a movie. For me, it's my favorite Bond movie.

[George Hahn]

You and me both.

[Craig Ferguson]

Even including the Conneries, which is. It almost feels heretical to say that.

[George Hahn]

But it was the Bond movie that made me cry.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. And also I felt it's the first time I really identified with James Bond and he's looking at the bleak beauty of Skyfall and where he grew up, and he says, I hate this place. Yes.

[George Hahn]

Let's just torch this house. Let's torch this house. No light coming in.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. But I didn't. I didn't come from the kind of dramatic part of Scotland. I came from the. Just the Cleveland of Scotland, actually. So how did you get into are your family? I mean Catherine is very show, but she's very theatrical and very.

[George Hahn]

She was a local TV show and she did local theater. I was always embarrassed the west side of Cleveland to compare because Catherine grew up on the east side of Cleveland. You know, our dads were brothers. Her dad was Bill. He just died this year on the same date. My father died 34 years ago. But so they grew up in the same house obviously. And then Bill went to the east side. Ultimately my dad stayed on the west side. The east side, where Shaker Heights is. Cleveland Heights seemed to have a much more liberal minded. And it might have been the liberal intellectual Jewish community. I don't know what it was but like the sort of bohemian crowd was all the way on the east side, particularly in this neighborhood called Coventry. That's where the art house movie theater was. That's where the museums were. That's where the cool record shops were. That's where you could get vintage clothes. The west side where I came from didn't have as much. It was a little more conservative, a little more. Not as expressive artistically I would say, and not as liberal.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a fair statement. You mentioned your father and I saw a media post or something you posted some time ago. It was rather moving post about your father taking you to New York City. Was that the first time that you went. Was your father interested in. In the theater? Was he all of that? So that's where you got it from?

[George Hahn]

Yeah, he was an actor. I have an award of his sitting on one of a chest in my room. He was an actor in Lor.

[Craig Ferguson]

He won awards. I've never won an award for acting.

[George Hahn]

He went to Notre Dame. He did theater there. He was in the theater with Phil Donahue of all people. What they were at Notre Dame around the same time and then got into. He went into the Navy, did some performances in the Navy. I think he wanted to go into acting professionally, but I think his father, my grandfather kind of talked him out of it. You know, just in terms of you're going to just setting yourself up for failure kind of thing. It's generational. And so my dad went into advertising and marketing and he was good at it. And that's what he ended up kind of doing.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did he look like Jon Hamm and Madman?

[George Hahn]

He was more interesting. You say that he wasn't the creative end. He was literally Pete Campbell. Not Minus, minus, like he was an account executive. I think Pete's title on his business card was something like account executive. And that was my dad. So he was not, you know, when you, when you had Mad Men, when those agencies were in two parts, there was a creative and the business. My dad was kind of more on the business side, but they did, you know, intersect.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan. It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty.

[George Hahn]

Watch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[George Hahn]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crowd crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tis the season to be jollier. Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay.

[George Hahn]

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[Craig Ferguson]

What I pick up from your style is very kind of like, it's very classically like that. Very kind of, you know, well cut suits and ties and good shoes and I feel like, I feel like there's alcohol in there as well. Is that.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. Is it?

[Craig Ferguson]

But you're. Correct me if I'm wrong or tell me to shove up from crossing the line. But you're sober, right?

[George Hahn]

22 years.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow. Yeah. Well, that's great.

[George Hahn]

Runs in the family.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. So, funny thing. So was that. Were you drinking when you went to New York?

[George Hahn]

When I got here, yeah. I moved here in 94 and I didn't get sober till 02.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, that would be right. I get sober. I'm 32 years, so look at us. Yeah.

[George Hahn]

But can I tell you something?

[Craig Ferguson]

What?

[George Hahn]

When I, you know, because I always had this sort of act, this image of, you know, an aspiring actor, that sort of that Richard Burton ideal. Brooding, a little messy and dark and chain smoking and just terminally miserable. Right. Always cloudy, always cloudy in my snow globe. And that was sort of what, you know, everybody wanted to sort of be like that and look like Al Pacino and Carlito's Way. Like just very sort of angry, bitter, out of work. Anyway, I was fortunate enough to do an episode of Sex and the City. And then like after that wrapped, there was a party and the showrunner, Michael Patrick King was at this rap party as well. I'm sitting at a table with him. I'm not sure how or why, but they're passing around martinis, the servers are giving away martinis and cosmopolitans, what have you. And I am on antibiotics. I Don't give a shit. I took another martini. I'm getting well on my way to getting smashed. And Michael asked for a club soda. And I said, you're not drinking tonight. And he said, oh, I don't drink at all. I said, ever. He goes, I've never drunk. And I thought, this guy. And I remember this clearly, this guy. And this is two and a half years before I ultimately got sober. He is highly functional, creatively vibrant, successful, happy in the mix of this business that I want to be. I want to be in the mix like him. And I thought, this guy who doesn't drink is onto something. And the not drinking thing is part of it. And I remember a seed was planted that even though I had sober parents, I had like. Yeah. So the drinking thing was very tricky for me for a long time.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think that I. I very much believed the myth of, you know, that the alcohol and the, you know, I did cocaine, but only as a kind of vitamin to drink more. It wasn't really like a proper cocaine addiction. It was more kind of like a side hustle for my. For the main event. And I felt like the. That's why British people do so much cocaine, by the way. It's not because they like cocaine. It's just that they can drink more while they're taking cocaine.

[George Hahn]

That's.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's what it is. It's like, oh, yeah, oh, let's do a little bump. But it's not like doing a bump in, you know, in New York or in Los Angeles or Miami. It's just like, well, then we'll go down to pub. But that being said, I fell for the myth of the drugs and the alcohol make you loose and creative. And it took me a while to figure out that people who were creative and successful and usually it was some kind of torture. Genius were doing that despite the drugs and alcohol, not because of it. It was like their talent was so profound that it was. It was kind of cutting through. Because I really don't buy that myth anymore. I really. I think it's fucking horseshit. The, you know, Picasso is a great artist. Modigliani is a great artist. Modigliani dies in the street and is, I guess, in his 30s or 40s. Picasso lives to 90 and keeps. Keeps doing things and keeps, you know, keeps changing. And I. I wonder if young people now are still buying into that. I feel like you might be a bit more plugged into that world than me. Do you think so?

[George Hahn]

I get. I mystified. I can't Remember specifically what it was, but I remember years ago coming across an ad for some kind of liquor. Whether it was a vodka, it might have been a gin or a rum, I don't know. It doesn't matter. Anyway, the ad featured Ernest Hemingway. I thought, wait a minute, the alcoholic who blew his head off is your spokes model? I'm sorry, there's a disconnect here. Like this. These guys who are extolled as your, you know, you're brooding like male archetype heroes. He was a mess, you know. Richard Burton was a mess.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yep.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. You know, these drinker, Jimmy, Judy Garland, Marilyn, Monty Clift. Beautiful, creative, vibrant souls. But I would imagine after a certain point to the people who love them. The people in their lives, I would imagine were exhausting and burned people out like rice paper.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. And also the thing that, I mean, I think I was pretty good at this is putting on some kind of show while I was drinking in public. You know, it was only after quite a bit of time and I guess when it became obvious that I had a problem. But I would pretend even to myself I was having a. You know, I was living a wild life and having a great time.

[George Hahn]

Same.

[Craig Ferguson]

The fetal position at 4 o'clock in the morning, naked in your hotel room crying. It's not something you share with people. Just like, guess what I did last night? It was awesome.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. Or being in that position with someone else in the room. Gorgeous. Sure.

[Craig Ferguson]

Who's another look of pity on people's faces. That's what I hated. Jesus, I hated that when. When they would just look at you like, what that. What the are you doing?

[George Hahn]

If I could remember that my biggest fear was the next day or days after and hearing about what I did or said, that was so unnerving to me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. That's why I took cocaine. It took blackouts away.

[George Hahn]

Ah, See, had I only known or had some extra cash.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, cocaine or. If I'd have known about prescription lens sunglasses, I think I might still be drinking. Actually, I didn't. I didn't know there was such a thing as you could get prescription lens sunglasses. And if I'd have known about that, I'd been like, ah, the hell it's fine.

[George Hahn]

See, they don't talk about, you know, Sinatra is another one. I don't know if he was an alcoholic, but I mean, he was a drinker and he, like, he looked like it, you know, after a while it physically takes a toll. And you look at Frank in the 70s as opposed to Frank in the early 60s, almost a different guy. He looked like a pin cushion. Like, really that brown. That brown bottle. Tan takes a toll.

[Craig Ferguson]

But there is that kind of huge. I mean, you meet with a lot of aggression from people who have alcohol problems who don't want to. Like, if you say, I'm sober and I'm sober because I want to be sober, it's like, oh, I. You know, it's like you somehow copped out. Or it's like when I say to people, now, look like I'm not. I'm not stupid. If drinking was more fun, I do it.

[George Hahn]

I stopped having fun. It wasn't fun anymore.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, not at all. And it stopped kind of stopped kind of working as well. It stopped kind of like I would. I used to be frightened of flying, and I would drink on airplanes to deal with that. And then I found out I was just drunk and scared. It did nothing other than just that. How are you now with it? Are you very connected to sobriety? Do you attend to it a lot and stuff? I mean, I'm kind of dancing around the.

[George Hahn]

Oh, yeah, I know what you're.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know the traditions of.

[George Hahn]

I do. I have a. Let's just say I did not do this alone. Right. My parents went that same route.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you're being sober when you were a kid.

[George Hahn]

Yeah, my dad got sober when I was 4. My mom got sober when I was 5.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you don't really remember them drinking that, right?

[George Hahn]

I have a very. I don't have a memory of my mother drunk, but I do have a very vague memory of my father passed out on a couch in our house and I couldn't wake him up. I remember pounding on his chest. I have a vague memory of that. And to this day, the smell of scotch makes me think of him, even though I have no real clear memory of him drinking. But the smell of scotch, that sense memory makes me think of dad, and that was his drink.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I guess, look, I feel like you live an urbane life. Would that be right to say that you live a kind of a city life?

[George Hahn]

Oh, for sure. I love city living.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you probably run into it quite a lot, right?

[George Hahn]

Oh, all the time. There are many times when I'm like, in this. This. This birthday weekend in Scotland at Five Farms, I was of, like, the hundred guests because they. We kind of commandeered this hotel for 48 hours. I think I was one of maybe three total people who weren't drinking. And, you know, probably in the whole.

[Craig Ferguson]

Of Scotland.

[George Hahn]

Literally, when we went to do, like the hunting or not hunting. We went to shoot air rifles and throw axes into archery. Turns out I'm good at archery. We were given, you know, sips of like the reward is a sip of whiskey. And I just. I'm the one who's always passing. But yeah, it's just. It is still weird to people when you don't and they kind of look at you sometimes like a broken slot machine. Like, how do you do this sober? I'm like, I just do, I hope performing.

[Craig Ferguson]

How about working as an actor? Did you find it a big change once you got sober?

[George Hahn]

I found that less and less my inhibitions went away more and more, year after year. I would say I have become, and maybe it's just age, but I have become less inhibited, less self conscious. Like the videos I became known for making on social media, you know, I'm basically doing a selfie walking down, walking down the street. And 10 years before that, even five years before I started doing them, I think I would have been too self conscious to actually do it. And I would have given a shit what somebody thought of me looking at me on the street now I don't care.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you look at the comments and stuff when you, when you post stuff?

[George Hahn]

Not as much anymore. I used to because it was like. I mean, validation from strangers is like heroin to me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

But not as much anymore. I just, I do want to know that it's being liked, but I don't read. I will look at comments from friends and those tend to get filtered to the top, thankfully.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[George Hahn]

Because it's a sort of a form of high five and communication and that's lovely.

[Craig Ferguson]

But strangers, it's funny, I noticed that I had to stop reading them because I would skip past comments that were positive to find the negative ones.

[George Hahn]

Isn't that fun?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I think that's some kind of twisted narcissism, I think. And I don't like it in myself.

[George Hahn]

Do you have imposter syndrome?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes. Yes, definitely. The idea that, you know, I'm not funny, I shouldn't. Yeah.

[George Hahn]

All of that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

Oh, God.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you have that?

[George Hahn]

Terribly.

[Craig Ferguson]

All the time. I think it's funny. I think of you as being super confident.

[George Hahn]

I'm good at faking it. I'm very good at faking it. Yes. I will go into a room knowing that I'm fine. Like technically I know I'm fine. Like I'm cool. I got the goods to sort of hold my own in this space here. But there is that dark voice on Once on one shoulder saying, you suck. You're not funny, you're not pretty enough, you're not smart enough, you're not talented enough. But I also know that if I don't fake it, nothing's gonna, nothing's gonna move. So I have this weird wherewithal to know that I have to sort of power through a very unconfident moment if anything is gonna come out of it. So I take that route.

[Craig Ferguson]

I go and I go kind of. I did a bit of a, I got a bit of a sea change with it fairly recently because I started doing a lot of stand up. I'd be, I've always done stand up comedy. I mean, I've done it my, my whole career and I, and I love it. And I love the kind of, the kind of solo work. I love being on a stage on my own. And, and I, I, I got very tired of the corporate mindset. Not just like when I worked at CBS for a long time, but, but also it seems like everything is corporate. Like young people will talk about their brand. Like, I, I mean, what, what are you talking about? You know, and that, like everything is a. Something that Norman McDonald accused me of once, that he said I was a seething cauldron of ambition. And I think he's probably true, but. Yeah, but, but I'm not anymore. But I, but I think that's quite a popular look and I, I reject it. But I got, I had this conversation with, with Jay Leno because I was talking about trying to memorize a stand up thing, and he said, hey, just keep talking. Just keep talking. Nobody knows what you're meant to be saying, so just keep talking. They don't know the act. They just keep talking.

[George Hahn]

Do that in your act because that's great.

[Craig Ferguson]

But what I, but what I can love about it is it's kind of true that if you, if you can think I'm meant to be here, this is what I do. Clearly I've been doing it long enough. This is what I'm meant to be doing. I was meant to be doing something else that I'd be doing it. But now. And that is one of the few blessings of age because I'm kind of struggling a little with my corporeal decline. I'm not quite as, I don't repair as quickly as I used to. I get fat because I get fat and then thin and fat and thin. If I get fat, it takes me much longer to get not fat again. Like, this is terrible. It used to be easy.

[George Hahn]

I know I quit smoking two and a half years ago, and I'm still trying to. And when I was smoking and fit, I. I sort of did this devil's dance of being very fit and exercising and eating pretty well. But that vice was cigarettes, which I. I'm not. I don't crave them anymore, but I do come, sort of miss them sometimes, but.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, I fucking listen. I fucking loved SM. I loved every cigarette.

[George Hahn]

For 25 years, I loved every cigarette I ever had.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God, I fucking loved it. And if it didn't give you cancer, I'd still do it. Absolutely. It gives you cancer. Just does. And.

[George Hahn]

But I was such a sexy weight. I was like, I was. I can't fit into the suits I wore. So I'm in the process now of getting back down, so I. I gotta eat my feelings.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's the carrot that I use for myself as well. Because I had this deal when I was in late night that my agent made that I get. I got to keep all the suits that I ever had in. Like, I've got like 150 suits from late night shows and game shows and stuff like that. I can't wear any. So. So I have this idea that if you lose another £10, you'll get. You'll win 150 suits, you know, so it kind of. It's hard, though. And I feel like. Were you fat as a kid?

[George Hahn]

No.

[Craig Ferguson]

You a tubby kid?

[George Hahn]

Never. This is the first time I've struggled with taking off weight. I'm. It's not like I'm not obese or something. I'm well aware of that. And I don't think I have, like, body dysmorphia, but it's just. I can't fit into the suits that I invested a lot of tailoring into. So I'm about £20 north of where I want to be. And that's harder for me than I thought. And I. It requires a discipline that I thought I had, but I got to work a little bit harder. Well, you know, this is my.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's also about how you feel. I mean, there are people who carry 20, 30, 40 extra pounds who are just fine with it. And, you know, and it's not. It. I, you know, I wouldn't. I don't think there's a body type that's perfect for everybody, but I know for me, if I carry extra weight, I feel ashamed. My nickname when I was a kid was Tubby.

[George Hahn]

No.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't, you wouldn't be allowed to do that now.

[George Hahn]

Kids are such. Oh, my God.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. I've taught the teachers as well. I mean, it was. They were horrible.

[George Hahn]

The teachers would say that to you. Oh, yes. Oh, horrible.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's Tubby Ferguson. Come out here, you fat, wee body.

[George Hahn]

Oh, Craig.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't think I've ever managed to shake it. I really don't. Through all the years of getting sober in therapy and everything else. Do you get therapy? Did you go to therapy? Is that.

[George Hahn]

I did. I had a very bad bout of post Covid anxiety that manifested in the form of. And I didn't know it at the time. It was when I quit smoking. It was why I quit smoking. Initially, I thought I was having heart attacks. I was in a. Oh, yeah, I was seeing. It first happened when I was seeing To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway with Jeff Daniels just before he left the show after Covid. Everyone's wearing a mask in the theater. We're all, like, looking at each other, like, don't breathe. And I. As soon as the show started, I feel like I'm having a heart attack. And I'm thinking, fuck, I'm going to be the guy they stopped the show for and I'm leaving this theater in a stretcher. But I managed to breathe through it somehow anyway. Panic attacks like that. That felt like heart attacks. Anxiety, fatigue. I could not climb. I live on an eighth floor. Sometimes I would take the stairs just to keep my ass in the same place it's been since college. And I would get exhausted by the third floor. Like, I couldn't get to the third floor without feeling like my chest is going to explode.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did you get Covid? Was that a result?

[George Hahn]

I did. This was what I learned later. Is that what I would. The litany of these horrible, like, sort of knocking at death's door feelings that I was getting were from a weird, long Covid. I went to a long Covid care center at Mount Sinai, and she said, we're hearing a ton of this and there's nothing I have for you. You just kind of have to ride it out. I just thought, oh, Jesus. So. And there were emotional things. I was like a lot of people during COVID and lockdown and loneliness and isolation. I went to see a therapist about it and went for about a year. We had a really good, productive year. And she said, I think you're doing really well. I would love to keep seeing you if you want, but I think if you wanted to pump the brakes, we're good with that, too. So I'm cured.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, that's a great therapist.

[George Hahn]

But it was, we had a good. It was very helpful. Very helpful. And so I've done that. Exercise is helpful. I learned how to breathe. I wasn't breathing properly.

[Craig Ferguson]

Were you do yoga and stuff?

[George Hahn]

No. There was this guy I heard on npr. His name is James Nestor and he wrote this book called Breath about three or four years ago and he was on.

[Craig Ferguson]

You get a whole book out of it. A whole book out.

[George Hahn]

It's very strange. I'm thinking, what about how we have done such damage to ourselves as a species through breathing improperly? It was kind of fascinating. Anyway, extremely helpful. Game changing. He was on Fresh Air, I think with Terry Gross. And so I gave that a shot. I'll look it up.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's interesting.

[George Hahn]

I'll send you the link to it.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's yes, please.

[George Hahn]

A game changer. The big takeaway. Inhale through the nose. We should not be breathing through our mouth, which I did not know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

But yeah, therapy I am all for really, Craig, Anything. I'm not opposed to medicine. I do take some like Lipitor, But I would like to be at a point where I am, you know, food is medicine to me and I would like to be eating better, exercising a little bit more and not need these medications. But for now, you know, fine.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Craig Ferguson]

Partisan.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[George Hahn]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tis the season. Season to be jollier. Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off. Any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. It's better over here.

[George Hahn]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

CT mobile.com hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but, like, I never liked being told, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age.

[George Hahn]

That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[George Hahn]

Meaningful Beauty.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[George Hahn]

I think it's.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's kind of a part of the aging process. The modern aging process is, is to get sanguine with, with medication a little bit. I. And I, I. About two years ago, maybe a year ago, I had a, an endoscope. My father died of esophageal cancer and I was experiencing a lot of indigestion. And so I had to get an endoscope and they didn't find any Barrett or any cancer stuff, but I was getting constant indigestion, which was really awful. And they put me on these medications for a while and they really worked. But I've got such a resistance to that kind of thing. I just, I also, I also feel like, look, I'm not a doctor, and I'm in no way qualified to say this, but I feel like if you're on medication for a long time, it's got to be doing something to your liver, to your kidneys, to your. It's got to be. It's got to be doing something. It's just, it's an extra thing. It's a, it's another thing for it to deal with. And I know that modern medicine is a miracle, and I wouldn't tell anyone to stop taking medicine, but I get a little uncomfortable being on anything for too long.

[George Hahn]

You and me both. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I think, well, you touched upon this just now. Like, without it, you know, it's. This is, this is a. I don't want to say miracle, but it is a miracle of human ingenuity. Medicines, vaccines, all of this stuff, I am all in it. I just. There was a part of me, maybe it's a little bit of a resentment. I don't want to be on the hook to the. To the pharma monster for the rest of my life, you know? You know, this is not that weight has ever been a struggle, but I know that there are people on it, and I think wegovy and Ozempic and stuff is going to make a. They're going to be game changers for so many people. They are already.

[Craig Ferguson]

I. I talked to a couple. I had a doctor on the podcast, actually, I was talking to about it, and he was saying, oh, no, these things are great. They're.

[George Hahn]

They're.

[Craig Ferguson]

They're fabulous. The thing is about it. I also talked to a friend of mine who lost a lot of weight, and he'd done it through having Ozempic, and I said. I said, it works. Then clearly he said, it does. I said, what does it do? He said, you just don't. He's just not hungry. Yeah, I. I haven't. I don't eat because I'm hungry. I eat because I'm sad. I haven't been hungry since 1974.

[George Hahn]

Feelings.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm. It's just. I'm like, that's why I eat. Or aren't TV time or.

[George Hahn]

Feelings are delicious.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. I love eating my feelings.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I think it's probably all wrapped up in the same dark magic of alcoholism and food and sex and. Did you ever get into any of the others? The gamblings or the compulsive sex or anything fabulous?

[George Hahn]

Never with the gambling, and I never did anything stronger than weed. Well, alcohol kills more people than any of them. But, yeah, there were periods. Not for a long time, but there were periods where my. My sex drive was in hyperdrive for sure. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, if you're in great shape and you're drinking those things that can come together in a hell of a look.

[George Hahn]

Yeah. And, you know, waking up with people I ordinarily wouldn't sit next to on a bus, but, hey, you know, it's. I. It. He kept me company for an evening. It's fine.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

Is there a subway near here? Is there coffee?

[Craig Ferguson]

Are we in New York?

[George Hahn]

I'm George, by the way.

[Craig Ferguson]

What about. I think a little bit about young people. If they're being irresponsible or being a little wild, as I certainly was when I was young, I feel for them because they're being filmed.

[George Hahn]

Yes. Oh, my God. Craig, could you imagine being active with the way people are now, we have film studios and radio stations in our pockets.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[George Hahn]

No way. I'd be in so much trouble.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I think, I think it is. I mean, they're quite brutal with each other, the young. I think they're all kind of like mean, you know, they're, they're tough. And those, those shame based tabloids and, and you know, these websites where. Tmz. Oh, well, tmz. I, it's not one I, I really know very much, but I'm thinking more of like the British tabloid ones. They're. They're awful.

[George Hahn]

They're. They're looking for a gotcha moment. I mean, but that, that's not new for British tabloid culture though.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I guess not. Or even it. I mean, look, Hearst was a bit of a, was a bit of a gotcha character as well, but it was more about wars and power, you know, I think for him. Well, the celebrity, I mean even. Did you read the Scotty Bowers book? Did you ever read that book?

[George Hahn]

No. Do tell.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh my God, it's fantastic.

[George Hahn]

I'm getting a pen.

[Craig Ferguson]

Scotty Bowers was. He was a. I guess he was sort of a hooker in Hollywood.

[George Hahn]

Oh, yes, I did. And I saw the documentary. I know exactly who you're talking about.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it's Scotty Bowers. Right? That's the name, right?

[George Hahn]

Scotty. You might be wrong on the last name, but you might be right on the last name, but I know exactly who you're talking about. Blonde, little sexually ambiguous. Liked it both ways.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but liked it more. All the ways that can be liked.

[George Hahn]

Died recently, like a couple of years ago.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. And the story in the book about Charles Lawton, I don't know if that can be true. It can't be true.

[George Hahn]

It's so bizarre for the kids at home. Please tell us.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you tell it, you tell us.

[George Hahn]

I only saw the documentary. You read the book. But please go ahead.

[Craig Ferguson]

In the book it's alleged that Charles Lawton paid someone to do a poop on a sandwich and then he, he sat down and ate it. And that was a thing for him. I can't believe that that's true. The.

[George Hahn]

There is a perversion for everyone.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but I mean, a shit sandwich. I mean literally.

[George Hahn]

And yeah, I mean, it's not like.

[Craig Ferguson]

You said, this is a shit sandwich, like an expression. It actually is a shit sandwich. I mean, I hate to shame them, but I mean, wow.

[George Hahn]

To each one. I don't know how you get to that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you know what I mean? How do you get to the.

[George Hahn]

You know what?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'd like the menu of kinks.

[George Hahn]

Like, I'm so vanilla.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, me too.

[George Hahn]

I'm so vanilla. I'll just blow on it. I'm happy. A breeze does it for me on a good day. Come on. But wow.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that in that Breathe book, by the way?

[George Hahn]

Is there anything about it where I learned it? That's where I learned it.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't know. I'm going to read that, though. I'm to find some kind of.

[George Hahn]

And the audiobook is helpful. I actually. I consumed it via audiobook.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm doing that all the time now.

[George Hahn]

Me too. I love them all the time.

[Craig Ferguson]

I've become obsessed with Gore Vidal.

[George Hahn]

I love him. I wish you were still around. There were voices I wish were still around. His was one of them.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Gore Vidal, Joan Rivers. Two essential names that. I think that we are diminished. People always go on about George Carlin, and he certainly was great. But the Joan Rivers and Gore Vidal, those voices of dissent and troublemakers, they are sadly missed right now.

[George Hahn]

I had the privilege of working for Joan Rivers at the end of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

Really?

[George Hahn]

Yeah. I ran her social media.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I didn't know that.

[George Hahn]

True story. I started on Twitter and I was following her and she was whining about her assistant. I found out later, was upset she couldn't change the. You could change the color on your background, on your page or whatever. Anyway, I offered to help, and then we were connected, and then I got to know her CEO of her company and her friend, and he reached out to me one day out of the blue and said, we're all doing Joan's Instagram and Facebook and we need a little someone to organize. We need someone to run this because we're all doing our own jobs and this. We should have just someone doing just this for Joan. Would you be interested? I'm like, yeah. So I signed that. I signed that NDA June of 2014, and was with her for that summer, and then she died three months later. But I was running her social media and I was writing, really writing jokes.

[Craig Ferguson]

I really loved her. You know, I never met her.

[George Hahn]

Oh, Craig. She was, first of all, three feet tall. As a. As a friend of mine said, there's something about that woman. Whether you knew who it was or not, she just looked famous.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I know a couple of people like that.

[George Hahn]

It's the hair, it's the jewels, it's the tailored Chanel jacket, whatever. She just looked famous. But smart, funny. Groundbreaker. Yeah. Door kicker opener, you know, all of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

I mean, really, a real game changer.

[George Hahn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And. And Gore Vidal as well, I feel, is a voice that particularly the young. The young and the queer right now seem to have. Well, maybe. Maybe they do connect to it, but I think he's. He was such a great voice for current thinking and articulate. Oh. Oh.

[George Hahn]

In a way that young people are not, I don't think, today.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, yeah, I mean, through no fault of their own. I think that. I think the handheld devices are used badly, are terrible. And you're like, you know, if they're badly used, they're, you know, they'll destroy you. And if you use them the right way, they're fantastic, you know, And I. But who's to say it's the right way? I just feel literacy is really dropping down with the young. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe with me, I read a lot less because I use my phone for somebody else to read to me.

[George Hahn]

I just last year started referring to other guys as bro. Like, I just. It's going down.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, no, not yet. No, I'm not there yet. No, I'm not going to. I'm not going to brawl.

[George Hahn]

The Gore Vidal thing, he was a master and such a. I would. I encourage every young person to watch that, find that clip on YouTube, and I think it was. Was it on Dick Cavett show with him and Truman Capote? No. Gore Vidal and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, I know who you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I. I can't remember who it is. This is terrible.

[George Hahn]

I want to refer to my social media world, but. Oh, God, you know who I'm talking about. William F. Buckley.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[George Hahn]

Legendary. Watching those two cats go at it. But, yeah, articulate, smart, and loved his insights. And the way he had his finger on a certain pulse, it was just kind of incredible.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did you ever come across his novelization of Julian the Apostate?

[George Hahn]

No.

[Craig Ferguson]

The Roman emperor that tried to steer the world back to Hellenistic religion after Constantine changed, you know, it converted the Roman Empire to Christianity.

[George Hahn]

Ah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And it is. It sounds like a kind of. I. I think on the surface it sounds like a rather kind of. Kind of academic study. And it is so entertaining. It's like fucking Game of Thrones. It's fabulous.

[George Hahn]

I'm writing this down.

[Craig Ferguson]

Julian. I think it's just called Julian, actually. It's wonderful, wonderful book. And then the narratives of Empire.

[George Hahn]

The.

[Craig Ferguson]

The. I think it's seven novels about the political history of the United States were just fantastic.

[George Hahn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I have decided, actually, because I've been banging on. On this Podcast and everywhere else about how much I loved Gore Vidal's biography of Aaron Bird. I'm going to start petitioning someone to write a rebuttal to Hamilton on Broadway. They used to have the Burr musical where you get the other point of view because Burr was crazy and much more interesting than perhaps he's been portrayed as sort of. I mean. Yes. A murderer. Uh huh. Okay.

[George Hahn]

But we all going on, we all have our faults.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[George Hahn]

Progress, not perfection. Come on.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes, that's right. It's, you know, the idea that as while you're the vice president, you kill someone in a duel and you go to try and raise an army, which I feel that's a skill that's been lost. I wouldn't know how to raise an army now. I don't think people know how to raise an army.

[George Hahn]

No, no.

[Craig Ferguson]

Would you know?

[George Hahn]

No. It's a lost skill. Yeah. Would that be the same as. Well, let's not put it on par with inciting a mobile.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, it kind of is.

[George Hahn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think it is insane. The mob. I think it's insane. The mob and paying for extra people on top.

[George Hahn]

Yeah, that's so it.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's kind. I think it's probably closest to the sandwich. So gross. But I don't know for sure.

[George Hahn]

Delicious.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, God. Listen, we gotta go. But. So that was my best.

[George Hahn]

We're best friends now, right?

[Craig Ferguson]

Are we best friends now? Because that was my interview to become at least a good friend. And I'm aiming for best friend slot, but I'm out in New York right now. I feel to actually get the coveted role of Han's best friend, it would have to be. Which actually sounds like a great show actually. Han's best friend.

[George Hahn]

Oh, that is good. Oh, I like that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Han's best friend. It's you. It's your podcast and you talk to people that are your friends. Han's best friend.

[George Hahn]

That's a great idea.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think you should do it. And please, if you do it, feel free to include me financially. No.

[George Hahn]

Fantastic.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, no, feel free to accept it with my. With my. This is illegally me gifting it to you right now on this podcast.

[George Hahn]

I feel so touched. In all the way. Yeah. In all the right ways.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, listen, the next time I'm in New York, which I think will be fairly soon, let's get together and go somewhere great.

[George Hahn]

Please. I would love that so much.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes, me too. I really would. And keep doing what you're doing. You are a force for good and high quality entertainment in a world of. In a giant Shit sandwich. You're a lovely raisin of deliciousness.

[George Hahn]

Ah, sir, you make my day with these kind words, kindness, and I admire you so. And thank you for having me on your podcast, Craig. I've been a fan for so long. This is such a. This is such a kick for me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, it's. It's totally mutual, so. So thanks and. Well, and we'll speak soon.

[George Hahn]

I look forward to it.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, all right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right. We're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Craig Ferguson]

Partisan.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty. Watch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and wow, it's beginning to.

[George Hahn]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tis the season to be jollier. Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay.

[Savannah Guthrie]

This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp, head of clinical operations. Hes Yoo Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.

[George Hahn]

I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like, having panic attacks every day.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that.

[George Hahn]

You once had in relationships. That could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Are and how we behave with other people.

[George Hahn]

So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com.

[George Hahn]

It'S beginning to sound a lot like the holidays. The Roku channel your home for free and premium TV is giving you access.

[Craig Ferguson]

To holiday music and genre base stations.

[George Hahn]

From iHeart, all for free.

[Craig Ferguson]

Find the soundtrack of the season with.

[George Hahn]

Channels like iHeart, Christmas and North Pole Radio. The Roku Channel is available on all.

[Craig Ferguson]

Roku devices, Web, Amazon Fire TV, Google.

[George Hahn]

TV, Samsung TVs and the Roku mobile app on iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and turn.

[Craig Ferguson]

Up the cheer with iheartradio on the Roku Channel.

[George Hahn]

Happy streaming.