KT Tunstall

Summary

Joy Podcast Episode: KT Tunstall with Craig Ferguson

Release Date: November 19, 2024
Host: Craig Ferguson
Guest: KT Tunstall
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this engaging episode of Joy, host Craig Ferguson sits down with the talented Scottish singer-songwriter KT Tunstall to explore the sources of her joy amidst the complexities of modern life. The conversation delves deep into KT's musical journey, her experiences in the entertainment industry, personal anecdotes, and her unique perspectives on finding happiness through creativity and resilience.

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Setting the Scene

The episode kicks off with KT Tunstall discussing her preparations for a holiday party, showcasing her creative flair and attention to detail. Her enthusiasm for bringing joy into everyday moments sets the tone for the insightful conversation that follows.

Notable Quote:
KT Tunstall [00:00]: "I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird-shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses."

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Embracing Technology in Music

KT introduces the "Partisan," a home cocktail maker, humorously intertwining technology with festive preparations. This segues into a broader discussion about how technology influences modern life and creativity.

Notable Quote:
Craig Ferguson [00:09]: "Partisan."
KT Tunstall [00:09]: "It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails... How about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe Margarita?"

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Navigating the Music Industry

The heart of the conversation revolves around KT's experiences in the music industry. She shares her early days, collaborations with iconic musicians, and the challenges she faced while establishing her unique sound. KT reflects on her interactions with legends like Susie Quattro and the impact of these relationships on her career.

Notable Quote:
KT Tunstall [06:40]: "Susie was the first ever, ever female rock and roll musician to play an instrument on stage."

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Personal Growth and Resilience

Craig and KT delve into personal stories that highlight resilience and growth. KT recounts a pivotal moment when her equipment failed during a performance at Madison Square Garden, turning a potential disaster into a triumphant and memorable experience. This story underscores her ability to find joy and maintain composure under pressure.

Notable Quote:
KT Tunstall [48:28]: "I got on the mic and I just went 'Madison Square Garden.' And everybody just roared... It was incredibly memorable."

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The Intersection of Comedy and Music

Craig Ferguson brings his comedic background into the discussion, comparing the spontaneity and vulnerability required in both stand-up comedy and live musical performances. They explore the parallels between these art forms, emphasizing the emotional connection with the audience.

Notable Quote:
Craig Ferguson [61:31]: "Robin Williams used to always say that stand up is jazz. He said stand up is music."

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Collaborative Projects and Future Plans

Towards the end of the episode, KT shares exciting news about her upcoming musical projects, including Saving Grace, a musical she co-wrote with Craig Ferguson. They discuss the creative process, the challenges of bringing a musical to life, and their anticipation for audience reception in London.

Notable Quote:
KT Tunstall [66:37]: "We've been working on it for years... I really feel like we fashioned something fantastic."

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Final Reflections

The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections on friendship, collaboration, and the enduring pursuit of joy through artistic expression. KT emphasizes the importance of authenticity and the shared human experience in creating meaningful connections through music.

Notable Quote:
Craig Ferguson [69:35]: "I know you're... it's actually fam. Proper fam."
KT Tunstall [69:35]: "I like you."

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience in Performance: KT's ability to turn setbacks into memorable moments exemplifies resilience and the capacity to find joy even in challenging situations.

• Technology and Creativity: Embracing technological advancements can enhance creative processes and bring new dimensions to traditional practices.

• Collaboration Across Disciplines: The intersection of different artistic fields, such as comedy and music, can lead to innovative and enriching collaborations.

• Authenticity as Joy: Maintaining authenticity and genuine connections with the audience fosters a deeper sense of joy and fulfillment in one's artistic endeavors.

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Conclusion

This episode of Joy offers a profound exploration of KT Tunstall's journey as a musician, her encounters with industry legends, and her unwavering pursuit of happiness through creativity. Craig Ferguson's insightful interviewing style brings out the essence of KT's experiences, providing listeners with inspiration and a deeper understanding of finding joy in a seemingly chaotic world.

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Listen to the full episode on iHeartPodcasts to immerse yourself in KT Tunstall's inspiring story and uncover the secrets to maintaining joy through passion and perseverance.

Transcript

[Katie Tunstall]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Craig Ferguson]

Partisan.

[Katie Tunstall]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe Margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty. Watch.

[Katie Tunstall]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow.

[Craig Ferguson]

Beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.

[Katie Tunstall]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Katie Tunstall]

$5 more per line without auto pay plus taxes and fees and $10 device connection charge phones via 24 monthly bill.

[Craig Ferguson]

Credits for well qualified customers.

[Katie Tunstall]

Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and.

[Craig Ferguson]

B required finance agreement due bill credits.

[Katie Tunstall]

End if you pay off devices early.

[Craig Ferguson]

CT mobile.com hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And Hoda caught me from the Today show. Nobody does the holidays like today. From festive performances and great gift ideas to tips for the perfect holiday feast, join us every morning on NBC and make today your home for the holidays.

[Craig Ferguson]

The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now. It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me. Buy tickets, bring your loved ones or don't come and see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones. I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but you should at least know it's happening. And it is. The tour kicks off late September and goes through the end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at the Craig Ferguson Show.com Tour. They're available at the craigfergusonshow.com Tour or at your local outlet in your region. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Of course, I love every guest I have in the podcast, but today's a little bit different because I actually do love, love this guest. She's my friend. She' a rock star, and she really is a rock star. Like sometimes when you say to her, you're a rock star, but she's also a rock star. Her name is Katie Tunstall and she's gorgeous. Enjoy this. Tomas, who is producing the show at the moment, is obviously he's a vampire, and he can only come into your house if you. People forget that about vampires. You have to ask them across the threshold.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Absolutely invitation necessary.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. Okay. So you're in Sausalito.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I'm in Sausalito, California. I can see the Golden Gate Bridge from my little room and the city at a distance, which is wonderful.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you know Bonnie Ray?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Do you know, I don't know her well, but when I first started out, we were playing in Nashville, and I turned. We were playing in some little dive. It was like a little 500 kind of dive club. And I turned to the right, and Bonnie Ray is sitting side of stage watching the show.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow. Did you know she lives right there in Sausalito?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Does she live here? I didn't realize. She lives right there. No way. Yeah, because I did a voiceover job this morning in a little. A great local studio called Studio. Studio D. Recording or something. But he was telling me that Bonnie Ray just made a record there.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Because the last time I was in Sausalito, I went to a shop. You know, they have shops in Sausalito.

[Savannah Guthrie]

They totally have shops.

[Craig Ferguson]

They have shops. And. And in one of the shops, they sell, like, little things like art.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yes.

[Craig Ferguson]

And, you know, little.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Kind of all the things that you didn't realize you needed. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. And. And I bumped into Bonnie Ray, and I know Bonnie because a very good friend of mine who sadly died since actually was her guitarist for a long time.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, wow. Really?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Well, it's all making sense. But, yeah, she's. She's one of the greats, for sure.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. She's fantastic. Yeah, I. I think you two would get along very well, actually. You've got. You got a bit of a Bonnie rape vibe yourself.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Listen, she's. She's one of the ones. One of the One of the sets of shoulders that I stand upon. For sure.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. She's like rock star.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

At a time when women and that area of rock, it wasn't like. Wasn't packed with them.

[Savannah Guthrie]

No. And I. My. My own brush with that energy from a closer relationship with Susie Quattro.

[Craig Ferguson]

I love Susie. What was that? Can the can.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, can the can.

[Craig Ferguson]

I remember watching that in Top of the Pops when I was a kid.

[Savannah Guthrie]

The really cool thing about Susie as well was that she did the leather onesie and the kind of mod hair, but she really didn't, like, wear makeup, you know, she didn't really glam up. She was kind of one of the guys. But Susie was the first ever, ever female rock and roll musician to play an instrument on stage.

[Craig Ferguson]

Really?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. And so she'd been plucked out of Detroit, taken over to the uk. Mickey Most, Rack Studios.

[Craig Ferguson]

And Mickey Most, who was that producer who was kind of like Simon Cowell before Simon Cowell. Right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's an amazing story. She was in a family band and she actually played drums in her family band with her sisters, the Cuatros. What were they called? The. Oh, God. I'd have to Google it. I can't remember.

[Craig Ferguson]

There would have to be four of them. Were there four of them in the Quattro?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Four sisters or three sisters. But this record, I think Mickey Mouse, Gone to America, seen her and they only wanted Susie and her dad didn't tell her. And so for a year she was sort of carrying on, playing in this family group, and then finally she found out that they actually wanted her. She went over and ended up selling 55 million records in Europe and Australia.

[Craig Ferguson]

Huge rockstar. Were you doing gigs with her recently?

[Savannah Guthrie]

So I met her. She was a huge Elvis fan. And I met her about 20 years ago doing, like, an Elvis. Huge Elvis tribute show in Hyde Park. And she know this? Yeah, she's such a character. And so I had kind of based my second album cover on her. I've got this. It's called Drastic, Fantastic. I've got this big mirrored bass that I'm playing. And it was like, you know, sort of Susie Quattro homage. Anyway, she saw me after she played and she goes, Katie Dunstan. And I was like, oh, my God, Susie Quattro. And she goes, I'm handing you the baton. And I was like, what? What fucking baton? What are you talking about? And she basically handed me the invisible baton of female rock, where she said, you're the one that I see doing what I did, and you're the one who's going to carry it on and we need to do something together. And 10 years later we wrote a duets record together. 20 years ago.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's crazy. You know, I talked on the podcast to a young American musician who is a woman who are. Her family are Scottish.

[Savannah Guthrie]

What's her name?

[Craig Ferguson]

Bishop Briggs is the name.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yes. I mean, right. Imagine being called Bishop Briggs.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. She's not really called Bishop Briggs, she's named after.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Using it as an artist name is fantastic.

[Craig Ferguson]

That is very funny. Because Bishop Briggs, to those who don't know, is a suburb of Glasgow.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And I should call myself Tranent from Edinburgh.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'd have to be Cumberland.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Ah, Mr. Nold.

[Craig Ferguson]

Call me Come. I think I was calling myself Come Bernard cum Bernald. There you are.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Because.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that your porn name? No, it's my name. Come Bernald. But the. She was saying, how much of an influence? Because I said, you know Carrie. And she said, oh, my God, she. And she talks about you the way you talk about Susie.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, come on. That's amazing.

[Craig Ferguson]

Isn't that great?

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's hard to. It's hard to get your head around that, you know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Just like I've had a few people say it now, you know, because it's 20 years since the first record. It's the. The. It was just. It was the 20th anniversary of me going on Jules Holland last week and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Was that suddenly icu. Was that the first one?

[Savannah Guthrie]

No, it was Black Horse.

[Craig Ferguson]

Black Horse was the first one?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yes. Because that's interesting.

[Craig Ferguson]

I always have them the other way.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Around in my head because I just. So Black Horse wasn't on my album. I wrote it after the album was recorded. I was still a nobody. We hadn't released the record yet. But I was so fucking bored of these confessional emotional open mic nights. I hated them. It was just like Phoebe from Friends playing Smelly Cat and Crying, you know, it was awful. And I really had. I was really adamant to try and get some rhythm into my set. And whilst trying to pursue my own career, I was the kind of guest vocalist in a Jewish drum and bass band called Oy Vavoy. And it was.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, that's not true.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's true. It's the same record label. I'm going to get lost because there's so much fun, there's so many funny stories about it. But the record label who wanted me to sign to them was an underground Asian dance label that had Nitin Sony, who's amazing. They had also signed seven Seconds by so Solid Crew as a One single deal. And they said, look, to get to know us, we have this instrumental band that needs a vocalist and they need to write some singles. And they're a ten piece Jewish klezmer drum and bass band called Oy Vavoy. And so, and so I joined that band, wrote some singles, went on tour for the first time, which was brilliant. And the sound guy, I was telling him how awful these open mics nights. And the sound guy, Moshe was like, I've got this loop pedal in my bag, we should set it up at rehearsal and see what we can do with it. And so at the end of rehearsal one day, we set it up. I mean, it sounded crap to start with, but he kind of tweaked it and helped me. I'd never seen anyone like bash the shit out of the guitar. I'd seen them noodle and do like guitar vocals. I was like, surely if you hit the guitar you get a beat. And it sounded like a badminton racket hitting a plastic bin. It just sounded terrible. And Mosh was like, don't worry, we can kind of, you know, play with it. And he got it sounding like a kick drum. And then the scouts for Jules Holland had come to see me rehearsing and just working out how to use this thing. And I was writing Black Horse and I was like trying to work out if there was some vocals that you could have going all the way through a song. And I was like, I need some lyric. I mean, it's just. I had no idea what it meant. I was like, these are just lyrics that came into my head to just try and get a song going. And they saw me working that out and I was like, excellent, we've got a song in the bag for album too. And then I'm on tour with my mate from Oreckney, actually half cousin. I just had a last blast, like go on tour with a friend and just be in a band rather. I was a bit apprehensive about being the bride finally, you know, being the front person and being known.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So it was a bit of a last blast. Went on this tour and then got the phone call about Jules Holland, that Nas the rapper had pulled out with 24 hours notice. And the scouts asked if I wanted to replace a global hip hop star. And I'm like an unknown unemployed girl from Scotland.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do people in America know about Jules Holland and how important that is for a British musician?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I mean, people certainly know more about it now that with the advent of YouTube and everything. But Jules, Jules Holland was an Original member of Squeeze.

[Craig Ferguson]

Sure. And he presented the Tube.

[Savannah Guthrie]

The Tube is a fantastic music.

[Craig Ferguson]

It was a music show on British television, which was af.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, it was crazy.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was mental. It was like Paula Yates on a bed with Michael Hutchence. And you know they're Paula Yeats.

[Craig Ferguson]

I know. It was Paula Yates and Jules Holland and Muriel Gray.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Muriel Gray, yeah. It was brilliant. But Jules then went on to start later with Jules Holland, which has been now running, I think, for 30 years.

[Craig Ferguson]

And the premise is an fantastic musician.

[Savannah Guthrie]

He's amazing. And the premise is that you have five or so acts in the round with an audience that are kind of around everybody on the floor, and it's recorded as live, and everybody plays a song each. And as the rapper was meant to be there, and he pulled out and I got the gig and I turn up.

[Craig Ferguson]

Was that a real change your life thing? Was that like a real, like, John?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, that was like, shot out of a human canon. So I get down to the studio. I've never been on tv. My album isn't out. I've no experience of this world. And it's Anita Baker, Jackson Brown and the Cure. Oh, my God. And Embrace were on it as well. And. But I'm just down there going, oh, my God, this is mental. And I can. And I'm thrown out to the middle of the floor. Three, two, one, go. And I'm like, just don't fuck it up. Don't fuck it up, you know, because the looper thing, you got to get it right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Once it starts, that's it. Right?

[Savannah Guthrie]

That's it. So I'm like, all right, I got the loop going. Get going. I can see Anita Baker, like, clapping. I'm like, Robert Smith is smiling like this.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow, that's rare.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's going good. And then I get. You know. And I know it's gone well, but it was a risky thing to do. But it was my label boss who said to me, do that fucking woohoo thing. And I was like, yeah. And I was like. And I said, but Shabs was. My label was. I was like, it's not on the record. We didn't have a recording of it. It wasn't on the album. And Other side of the World was the first single. I was like, shouldn't I play the first single? He's like, no, trust me. Play that horse thing. And I was like, all right. And then the next morning, I've won the online poll of the favorite artist on the show.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow. Against the Cure.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Against the Cure and Jackson Brown. And then on this tour I'm on at the moment, we just played the Troubadour in Hollywood as our first show.

[Craig Ferguson]

I know, because Megan and I were trying to get out and we couldn't make it work and. I'm sorry.

[Savannah Guthrie]

No.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did it go well?

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was fantastic. We played the show and there's a little. I don't know if you've done a gig there, but there's a little corridor upstairs that's your dressing room. And after the gig is great gig. I'm getting changed and an older gentleman comes straight into the dressing room, which is weird. Like, usually you've got 10 minutes or so after the show, and then I realize it's clearly a friend of Sean's, and so, you know, all good, and he's got a beard and anyway, comes up to me in the dressing room and he goes, katie, it's Jackson Brown. Oh, my God. And I'd never met him that night and I've never met him since. And I told the story on stage and Jackson Brown's like, I remember that night. It was crazy.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's great.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was amazing.

[Craig Ferguson]

I love when you hear about that kind of collegiate environment that musicians can have. They seem to like proper musicians, particularly, I think, rock musicians that write. They don't correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there's a kind of delight in each other's work that I don't see so much maybe with. With other areas of entertainment.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's really funny because it's like. It's like a kind of high school musical with musicians where you often, like, at festivals or something, where lots of you are there in one place. Because we don't actually see each other very often because you're touring all the time. It's probably the same as a comedian that you. You don't really fraternize that often, you know, and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't at all.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And then when you see each other, there's this kind of like, you know, are we. Are we. Are we cool? And then as soon as, you know the vibe is good, you can absolutely gush and tell each other how much you love each other.

[Craig Ferguson]

Does it cross boundaries? I mean, have you met people who are wildly outside your musical purview that you think, I really want to, like, work out with you. I really want to jam with you. I really want to play with you. Like Jimmy. I don't know, Yodelers or.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, I mean, well, what, like Jewish drum and bass bands?

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I Suppose so. Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I didn't even know the.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. But I think, I think the most impactful one of those was hall and Oates. So. So Daryl hall does this thing called Live from Daryl's House where he gets bands. It's a bit like Jules. He gets them to come and jam and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, I think I've seen this.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And we did one and I'm, I. My head was blown. I was like, in Daryl's place. He had a place in London where we filmed it. And I'm playing a fucking glockenspiel on out of Touch. Ding ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And he's. I'm like duetting with Daryl hall. And I ended up actually going on the road with hall and Oates a lot after that. And that was just like. It was the coolest. It was so magic.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Katie Tunstall]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian.

[Craig Ferguson]

Bartesian.

[Katie Tunstall]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty.

[Katie Tunstall]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Craig Ferguson]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Katie Tunstall]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tis the season to be jollier. Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. For many of us, the holiday season means more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more of your personal information in more places you can't control. It only takes one innocent mistake, even if it's not your mistake, to expose you to identity theft. Not to worry. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements, if your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Gift yourself the peace of mind that comes with LifeLock and spend more time doing more of the holiday things you love. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 40% your first year. That's 40% [e-mail] iheart LifeLock for the threats you can't control. Isn't it the weirdest thing though, about getting on a show business that you rub up against people that you idolized when you were young?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I mean, you can't get away with that these days. You can't rub up against them in the same way as we used to in the 90s.

[Craig Ferguson]

People were rubbing up against people in the, in the 90s in a very different way.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Different way. It was a different time.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, there's no rubbing now. If you rub, you rub yourself.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Keep it to yourself.

[Craig Ferguson]

Keep it to yourself. Rub yourself and call yourself come Bernard.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But I think the funny thing is it's like you're still a fan of these people, you know, And I find when I'm in those environments, you've just got to go, just be cool.

[Craig Ferguson]

Just be cool.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Just be cool. Just be normal. They're just musicians, just like you. They're just musicians, you know, and not lose your shit. Because the thing is, if you lose your shit, you miss the opportunity of actually connecting and having a friendship with someone. You know, I remember when I, you know, when it all first kicked off and I was friends with Scarlet Page Jimmy Page's daughter from what's Happening. And. And it was at Brits and she. And I was wearing these amazing Vivian Westwood boots, right, that I'd got for the thing and I won that year. It was brilliant year. And. And she goes, do you want to meet my dad? And I was like, yes, I really want to meet your dad.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes, I will meet Jimmy Page.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And I'm so trying to be cool. And I meet Jimmy Page. He's like, hello, Katie. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, hi, Jimmy. I said, how are you? And he goes, I'm great. He goes, I love your boots. And I said. And I just went, I love you. And he went, anyway, nice to meet you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Bye. Do you know that that's why I would never let the bookers approach David Bowie to appear on the old Late Night show.

[Savannah Guthrie]

God, what would you do?

[Craig Ferguson]

I was like, dawn, I don't know if I keep it together.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I know. I feel the same way about Bowie. I never met Bowie and I would. I think I would be a bit the same with Dylan. I just. I just, like. I don't know what the hell you'd say, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

I know. I mean, to just say you're great, I think is probably be weird, but it was brilliant.

[Savannah Guthrie]

When I did Jules Holland, I met Robert Smith after the show and he was actually the first famous person I ever met. I'd never met a famous person.

[Craig Ferguson]

First one I ever met. Who? Robert Smith.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Shut the fuck up. This is crazy. Kind of, because, like, our first gigs were at the Edinburgh Festival.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Robert Smith. There used to be a show. There used to be a show on TV in Britain called Jukebox Jury.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I remember, right.

[Craig Ferguson]

And it was like some people would come on and they would talk about songs like, there's four people and you play a bunch of new singles and people either go thumbs up or thumb down and say whether they like them or not. And for. Somebody must have canceled. And I got invited on Jukebox Jury and Robert Smith was on Jukebox Jury. But this is before I got sober. Wow. So I was going, ah. And I remember it only because the single that they were judging was Unbelievable by emf. Right. That's how long ago it was, right?

[Savannah Guthrie]

So unbelievable.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. And I. And Robert Smith didn't like it. He was like, no, I don't think it's going to be a hit. And I was like, no, it's awesome. It's going to be a hit. And I was drunk and all that. And. And I Still kind of feel a little weird about it because I don't think I was. I don't think I was very impressive as a character in those years. I don't even that impressive now. But that's. But back then I was drunk a lot and I argued with Robert Smith about the value of Unbelievable by emf. However, I was right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yes, you were right. And I'm sure a guy like Robert Smith appreciates some honest conviction.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what? You're right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

He probably has people fucking just agreeing with him all the time now.

[Craig Ferguson]

As I think about it, he probably thinks about me a lot.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All the time. In fact, the new Cure album probably has a song about you on it.

[Craig Ferguson]

He probably remembers it and say, oh, you remember that drunk Scottish guy on Jukebox Jury? I really liked him. He challenged me intellectually.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So when I met him, it was the end of the show and they have a nice little after show and he was still there. And I remember thinking, I've got to go and say hello to him. And so say hello. And he told. I was asking if they'd enjoyed making the new album they made. And I really remember he sounded like a 21 year old who just started a band. He was just so excited about new music and it was just. He was just a great dude. I loved his energy about talking about what they'd made and they'd already been around for 20 years or whatever.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but I've heard you talk like that. I've heard a lot of musicians talk like that when you have new stuff.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, yeah, well, that's what you hope. That's what you hope you feel like. But then that kind of dried up my thought. I want to keep talking to him. So what do you do? I should ask him a question, you know. And I didn't really think about it. I said, what are you up to this weekend? What have I done?

[Craig Ferguson]

What have I done? And he goes.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And he goes, oh, well, I'm having lunch with my parents. And I was like asking something else. I said, what do they think of your hair and your lipstick? I'm like, oh my God, this is a nightmare. And he just smiles and he just goes, I don't usually do that when I go home.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's very.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And he was just the best.

[Craig Ferguson]

And oh my God, he's an icon.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I mean, he ended up giving me a quote from my very first press release.

[Craig Ferguson]

No.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, it was. He was so sweet.

[Craig Ferguson]

You keep in touch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

No, like we. We didn't kind of. We didn't swap numbers. Or anything.

[Craig Ferguson]

I was just going to ask if he. If he had mentioned me at all since. Since jury in about 1987 or something.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, I'll pass on a signed postcard of you next time I see him.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, that's right. Thinking of you Think. Do you sell merch?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Thinking of you Thinking of me Thinking.

[Craig Ferguson]

Of you Thinking of me do you sell merch on your. On your tour?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I do sometimes. I. Historically, it doesn't seem like my crowd are big merch heads. I've often just. It's often just been very poor. And the one thing that I found these days that actually has been a complete turnaround is I. I do little handwritten lyric sheets and put them in a little frame and people love that. So I think my crowd are much more about music than they are about T shirts.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, here's what I have learned about merch. Please do tell me if you sell merch on the road. It's all about the design of the shirt.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. I can't get it right.

[Craig Ferguson]

No. And here's the thing. Don't get involved. That's because I think, no. I say, no, do this, do that. Whenever I have an idea for a T shirt, nobody fucking buys.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Maybe that's why I've always had the ideas and it's never worked.

[Craig Ferguson]

Don't get involved. It's not your area. Yeah, get. Well, sadly, Vivian Westwood is not available. Get somebody nearly as clever as Vivian Westwood to do, like Tomas. He farms it out to mass. My tour manager farms it out to a merch company. They do great stuff.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I must get the details. I did really want a T shirt. Do you remember everyone used to wear the Catherine Hamnet T shirts, you know, Choose.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Choose life. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Frankie, say relax. War. Hide yourself and stuff.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I wanted her to do a tour shirt that said I did life in Fife, but she wouldn't do it. She didn't do requests.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that where you grew up, in St Andrews?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Right? Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Was it. It's quite a posh term.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Were you quite posh? Well, I mean, it's definitely like, got a spectrum community in St Andrews. But I was. I was academic families because my dad was a physicist, so my mom and dad were English and they moved up just before. Well, I was. I was going to say I was born, but I was acquired because I was adopted. But.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. So I think your story is so, so interesting.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's quite a journey, for sure.

[Craig Ferguson]

It really is.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But dad was a physics lecturer and so we. And I found academia was almost a bit like A religion where really it was sort of very hermetically sealed and it was all just academic people hanging out with each other.

[Craig Ferguson]

And for sure, you know, they're the bitchiest motherfuckers I've ever come across as well, is academics. Like they're more competitive than fucking teenage standup comedians. They are unbelievable. They've always got a bad word to say about somebody else in academia.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Well, it's why I really respected my dad as well, because he just didn't give a shit about being a professor. All he wanted to do was research. And he was just like, undergraduates are a waste of university money. And he just. He just loved researching. And I remember the one thing that I've really taken to heart that my dad explained to me was one day he was really upset because they weren't getting the funding for experiments. So all. All my life growing up, dad would go to work at 8 in the morning, come home for lunch, go back to work, come home for dinner, and then take me and my brother to his lab every evening because he had to kind of keep checking these experiments. And like, he used to fucking play games with liquid nitrogen with us. You know, it was. It was banaz. But he was very dedicated to the experimental research that he was doing. He was working in nuclear magnetic resonance a lot, which led to MRI machines and. Yeah, and radiologists.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that why you light up in the dark?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Exactly. You can always see where I am. It's strange. I mean, honestly, dodgy stuff. Twelve people in his department ended up getting cancer because they were just ignoring radioactive science. But one. The one thing my dad said to me was that he was trying to get funding. And he said, oh, my God, they're only giving us five years funding. You know, there's. There's almost no point in doing it. And I was like, that sounds crazy. I said, what do you mean? And he said, well, you've got a fund for 20 years because you're never going to find out the answers to this research in five years. And then I thought, so will you know the answers to your research? And he was like, probably not. And I was like, wait, what? So you're dedicating your life to researching something that you will probably never know the answer to? And he's like, absolutely.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's the mark of it. I think that's the. There's an old quote which I love, which is a mark of civilization and a man that he will plant a tree that he knows he will never stand in the shade of Beautiful.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That's exactly it. And that is an amazing mentality, you know, that you're part of the course of exploration. You're not.

[Craig Ferguson]

Was he a musician?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Not at all. Neither. Neither of my parents were musical at all. They thought I was born. They were just. The thing was that they got me lessons. They could recognize that I was talented as a young kid. And absolutely to their credit, they got me music teachers and came and saw me performing at the Bayard Theatre, all these plays. And then when I actually left college and said, guess what? I'm going to be a performing artist. They were like, no, they were like, we thought you were going to be a flute teacher.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And so it was very frightening for them because they didn't even listen to music. They weren't music fans. There was no record collection in my eyes.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's very odd. I wonder if it's. Is it genetic, do you think?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Well, I think in my case, yes. I think, yeah. Apparently my. A biological father who I never met, but found out who he was through long lost family. The ITV show was Irish. I knew he was Irish, but apparently a very, very good singer and a bar owner, so he would just sing for everybody. So. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But it's always been innate. It sort of feels like. It feels like. I mean, I'm sure it's the same with you, with comedy and comedic timing, that you just feel like you've been born bilingual.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I can. It's something I can do. I know I can do it. I know that if I have to do it. It's interesting because I've watched you perform in very different spaces. I've seen you play in, you know, giant fucking arenas. And I saw you do a gig in a record shop in London where there was 20 of us in the shop or something.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That was brilliant.

[Craig Ferguson]

And. But you're exactly this. It's a different technique because if you're playing in a giant show, but you seem to me. And I know exactly, because I know how this feels. There is a kind of an ease and a sense of purpose that comes with the walkout onto the stage. You go, now I'm going to do what I actually know from now on. I'm going to be all right until this stops.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I mean, I feel that really comes with time. Like, I wasn't like that at first when I. Funny, because when I watch myself when I'm younger, I'm like, I look like I'm. I look. I seem cool. Like I'm not really looking at the audience that much. I'm not Saying that much. I'm a total blabbermouth now. And I'm looking. And I know. I know looking at. I'm like, I'm shy. I'm definitely shy. And I'm. I'm. I'm compensating by kind of playing it cool. And now that I'm older, I'm just an absolute, like, you know, gobshite. I'll just go on and be. And I'm just. I'm talking to the crowd like I talked to you. But I wanted to ask you this because I knew we were talking today that. Did you. Do you remember or have you ever had a relationship with this idea of the abyss when you're performing, you know that you can go off the edge of a cliff, that it can fucking go horribly wrong? Like, oh, do you live with that?

[Craig Ferguson]

I think I might have done it. Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I think you actually. That was your career.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think that's. I think you're talking exactly my technique. I know. I know exactly what. What you're talking about. Let me ask you, though, because. Have you finished describing it? Because I.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Well, all my point being was that I believe I subscribed to that in the early part of my career. And there was a turning point where I realized I think it's a myth. I don't think it exists. And that's when it. And that's when I changed my demeanor was like. I actually don't think anything can really go wrong here. I think it's up to you if it's goes wrong.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that's right. That's what. It's funny. That happened to me in a very definite way. I have it filmed, actually, when I was doing Late Night, because until Late Night, I was doing very much the formula, you know, the life of an actor and a comedian and a writer. And I would do this, do that, but Late Night, because I had to do it every night. It was the repetition. Every night I'd be a different show. Every night. I kind of began to get bored.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

And the boredom was interesting.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Dangerous.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, what I haven't told a lot of people, and this might be the first time I've talked about it publicly for about two years when I was round about when I did that monologue I did that everyone talks about when Britney Spears had that meltdown. And I was. I happened to be 15 years sober that day. And I was like. It was in 2007.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And by the way, thank you for doing that. It was. It was a really extremely powerful thing.

[Craig Ferguson]

To do that was the abyss, though, because what happened right, right at that time, I so hated what I was doing. I hated it. I hated pretending that I was doing jokes like, hey, have you guys been watching the playoffs and stuff? I don't watch the fucking play. I don't really know what a playoff is. And. And I was pretending to be someone else and I was bored and I hated that and I was uncomfortable. And then that thing happened with her that weekend and I felt terrible for her, but it was. And I, when I went to work that morning, it was during that period, maybe a couple of months before, and it ended a couple of months after. Everywhere I went, I had my passport in my top pocket. So that. Because I thought, tonight's the night, they're going to fucking get rid of me. Tonight's the night I'm not going to be able to stand it and just fucking leave and fuck it and go to Bogota or something all the time.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Wow.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I think you're right. There comes to a point where you go, you don't have to run to escape the fucking. The bonds of your own terror. You don't have to run. You know that you can, you can face it right there and fine, whatever fucking happens, happens.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And I think you just, you realize you're not a visitor to a venue. Yeah, the venue is yours.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And I said this to the crowd the other night. I said, this is entirely collaborative. Like, yeah, this doesn't happen if you're not here, and this doesn't happen if I'm not here. And that's the magic, is that you create this totally unique closed loop circuit with those particular people. And I say it all the time because I think it's really great for people to remember that when you're in a venue, watching someone or you're performing, it's the only time in the history of the fucking universe that those specific people will ever be in a room together.

[Craig Ferguson]

I know, it's like a film.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Exactly. And, you know, remembering that that experience cannot be emulated by technology. It's no, it's completely protected from any possible future because it's fucking magical. It's magical and it's to be awed and to be respected. And I think when I realized, and you know, partly why I realized it was fans would wait afterwards to say hi. And so many of them would say, my favorite bit was when you fucked up. I've got emotional saying that, but it's like, I'd be like, what? I've been like practicing for years and trying to get these songs perfect. And it's when you realize that the perfect show is something special that didn't happen last night, you know?

[Katie Tunstall]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan Partisan. It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a clasmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty.

[Katie Tunstall]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Craig Ferguson]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Katie Tunstall]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

We'll pay off your existing phone and give you a new one free.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax, qualifying port.

[Craig Ferguson]

And trade and service on go 5G next and credit required. Contact us before canceling entire account to.

[Katie Tunstall]

Continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look.

[Katie Tunstall]

Great at any age?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel.

[Katie Tunstall]

Confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Meaningful Beauty.

[Katie Tunstall]

Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that also it is the recognition of the audience is maturity of a performer. And I tell you what, I'm coming to this is something I've been messing around with very recently. I was on stage a couple of nights ago in Cleveland. And, you know, the Agora Theater in Cleveland is a big venue. It's a nice venue. I like it. And I was on stage and I was kind of mucking around with the audience at the end, towards the end of the night, and I said to them, you guys are probably familiar with the Danish Christian existentialist philosopher Soren Kierkegaard. And when he's. When he said. And I. And I believe this to be true. Only the noble of heart are called to difficulty. And I. And I said, it's a pain in the ass to go out at night. It's a pain in the ass to get a babysitter. It's a pain in the ass to get in the bus or the train or get your car. Parkinson's. A pain in the ass getting a ticket. And a pain in the ass. The ticket websites are a pain in the ass. That everything's a pain in the ass.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I know it's all difficult. I know it's all that. And I know that money is fucking tight for a lot of people, too. And the fact that you did all that, you went through all of that fucking niggly bullshit to come here and hang out with me, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. And then they waited for the joke and I said, I don't have a joke. I really mean it. And that was a kind of weird moment as well. And I love that. And I like what you're describing. It's true. It's different.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And talking of Squeeze, so Jill, I don't know if there would be a Katie Tunstall if it wasn't for Squeeze. Right. Because went on, Jules Holland didn't have a recording of that song. So the first 10,000 copies of the record are the audio from Jules Holland star. Yes.

[Craig Ferguson]

No idea.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And then we had to Rush record a version of the song to actually get it out as a single. And we ended up recording it in. In Chris Differd's studio, who's also from Squeeze. And then fast forward, you know, 18 years, I'm invited to go on tour with hall and Oates. And it's two openers, it's me and Squeeze. So I'm on first, then Squeeze, then Hall and Oates. And this was the 25th of February, 2020. So it was just before everything shut down, we were playing Madison Square Gardens and it was. It was. You know, and it's just Holy Grail. It's like that is the Pilgrimage. And it's you just, it's not on your bingo card of life that you might ever get to play that place, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So it was, I was so excited. It was a bit of a cut down time set because of the special venue. So I had 20 minutes opening time. And the other thing that's amazing about that for me particularly is that I'm solo. So like who the fuck ever gets to play? You'd always have a band playing Madison Square Gardens. But I get to get on stage to 20,000 people who wouldn't come and see me on my own and play a set for them. So I'm just so excited. And a friend of mine, it's total name drop is a photographer called Pete Souza who was Obama's photographer and Reagan's photographer. But I know him through Brandy Carlisle and he does quite a lot of music photography these days. Anyway, he's in town so he says he's going to come to the show and I go on stage and I start. I mean it's just phenomenal that space. Have you, have you gigged there?

[Craig Ferguson]

I've never played it.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's an amazing space and you know, it's in the round so it feels kind of quite.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, I've been to stuff there. Yeah, yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So I go on stage, I'm there 45 seconds into my song, all my gear craps out.

[Craig Ferguson]

Jeez.

[Savannah Guthrie]

The lights turn off, it is dead. I have no, no equipment. My guitar is not working but for some reason my mic is still working and so I'm fucking on stage with my pants down with a microphone in front of 20,000 people falling back.

[Craig Ferguson]

I am familiar with.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Like a minute into the first song and you know, the guys are kind of running around trying to work out what's happened and I'm just going, Jesus Christ, do I. And I thought maybe I should sing an acapella song but I don't know what would work without the music. And I just, I couldn't get my head around it quick enough. And I'm thinking in my head all roads have led here, you know, to being on one of the biggest, most famous stages in the world in this situation. And I just felt myself go, fuck it. No abyss go. And I just got on the mic and I just went Madison Square gardens. If the 15 year old me could see the 47 year old me standing on stage at Madison Square Gardens while all of her stuff up, she'd be delighted. And everybody just roared, that's great. And gave me a massive standing o. They got the gear Working. And I had a phenomenal rest of the set. And it was.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's an amazing.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was incredibly memorable. And. And Chris Stifford was standing side of stage watching. And. And I did a podcast with him recently, and I told that story, and he let me tell it, and he was like, well, I know that happened, Katie, because I was there watching you, and I was like, God, I just. I just blocked everything out, you know, But. But Pete Souza was behind me on the stage, and he took this picture of me once I got going again. And my hair is just flying in the air and my muscles popping out and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, nice.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And it just felt like the arena felt like a gladiator in the arena. What happened? You know, what do you do when it hits the fan? And it was funny. It was another of those moments where I was like, there's no way anything is ever going to be as confronting as that, as everything going wrong at msg. I've done it. I've done it. I came through the fire.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. But also what happens is. I think. I don't know if this will happen to you, but it certainly happened to me. When things started to go wrong and I enjoyed it. I started to look. I started to look for it to go wrong.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I kind of. I'm a little guilty of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

Like, I. We. When I started in Late night, I had, I think, eight or ten writers. When the time I had finished, I had three. Cause I was like, just put some stuff on the thing and work it out.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But that's why it was so brilliant, and that's why I talk to a lot of people over here, and you are just their absolute number one favorite. Like, they go back and the guy who's with me on tour just watches the reruns all the time. Because it's a completely different level of engagement.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's not possible, but it's not possible in a company environment. I think that it's when I watch it. And I wonder if a band does the same thing to a personality like you, because you are a consummate musician. I know you, and I know you, and I've worked with you, and I love you, and I know how you work, but I also know you, and, you know, we've. We've played musical instruments together with my young son, and I know that.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

But I think this is. And I've said this to you. I think you think like a standup. I think you really like. Yeah, you. You have that kind of. Of course you can play in a band. Of course you can play with other musicians, you enjoy it, you're good at it. You're like, I can fucking run around with actors and, you know, Miley's. I can do all that. But really, when you're on your own, that's when it's.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. And I have to say, like, there's been times where I've thought, God, it would be nice to be in a band, wouldn't it? To sort of not be. Really just not be the absolute captain of the ship all the time and for everything to be your decision and all the consequences of that be on you. But I have to be completely honest, I'm fucking very relieved I'm a solo act. Yeah, I just.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that's easier on everybody, including the musicians that you work with, but not because of unreasonableness, just because I.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Do like to have control of that, of the stage and of how it goes. And when I'm on stage, I'm very aware of, I've got the wand, I've got the conch, you know, and you decide how it goes. And I love being able to go, yeah, we're not going to do that, we're going to do this also.

[Craig Ferguson]

If you even look at the origin of your career from the story you're telling about Jules, doing Jules show at that time, that's fucking ballsy.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I remember doing it. It was up in the Highlands somewhere, did a radio show not long after that was aired, and there was an engineer and he was such a sweet guy and I can't remember his name, but he goes, get it? I was watching the telly, I was watching what you were doing, and I went, oh, no, no, what you doing? Don't do it. Move. And he understood. There was so few people who understood. They could have gone so wrong.

[Craig Ferguson]

The danger of what was going on. Yeah, but that, whatever that is, that when you talk about the abyss and you talk about the danger, like one of the very first standups I ever did was at a punk festival in the IPA or the ICA or something in London. And I was absolutely harangued and booed off stage by the audience and all that. And when I come off, because I remember Peter Capaldi was there at the time, he was in the band I was in at the time. And he was like, oh, oh, dear. I was like. I was like, no, no, I want to do it again. I know.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And it's like, it's like, you know, I also can't really perform that well, not under pressure.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So if I. If I. If I'm filming something and I know that I can do it again, it won't be as good.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Also, here's another thing, though. Let me ask you this. I like strength. Sometimes people will come backstage after you've done a show and they'll tell you how great the show was and how much they enjoyed it, and it might not be a show that you enjoyed as much. And I've decided, I've learned over the time to shut up about that now and just say, thanks very much.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I know there's a real dissonance that can happen between you thinking you've had a great show and they were like, it was nice, or you having a terrible time. And I'm just going, oh, that was great.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, I had one recently. Yeah, I've heard performers talk about that when they're playing in Japan.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's just. It's. It's crazy because they. Someone said to me, just don't mumble, don't, don't ramble. Because they'll clap for 10 seconds and then it's silence. So they go. And then you're just like, oh, my God. It's completely silent. And you just start mumbling nonsense. And it happened.

[Craig Ferguson]

But did you mumble?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, I was just like. And a lot of Japanese people don't speak English, so they also. A lot of the audience have no idea what you're saying.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do they understand what you're singing?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I don't think a good.

[Craig Ferguson]

I just wasn't. Really matters in music, does it?

[Savannah Guthrie]

And it's another beautiful thing about music. When you travel the world and play for people, you take it for granted that you speak English. And there's so many of these countries that you go to, they have absolutely. They're basically listening to the Cocktail Twins. They have no idea what.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You know, and they really. A lot of audience members won't know what the words mean. And you see that the words are emotionally communicating just as powerfully as if they did know what you were saying. It's magic.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what? I went to an A meeting with a friend of mine from America once in Scotland, and she sat next to. She sat next to me in the meeting. And at the end of the meeting, she went. That was one of the greatest AA meetings I've ever been to in my life. Didn't understand a fucking word. Not a fucking word. But somehow it worked. I was like, yeah, I get it.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But, yeah, that amazing kind of osmosis through performance of not necessarily Having to. I mean, it's the same with art, isn't it, with painting or with dance, where there's something just that isn't to do with language at all.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. And it's the thing that I, you know, I. I am so jealous of. That doesn't exist in Stand Up. If they don't speak English, I can't do it.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I don't agree with you, though, because I'm. I'm fully of the feeling that I think Stand up is king. I think it is the hardest, most impressive art. I think it's. I just think it's beyond.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't see it that way at all. I think musicianship, funnily enough, well, we can.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Let's slap each other's asses and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, that's more of a 90s thing.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But the thing is. But Craig, I could be having any kind of day. I could be feeling like shit or I could be feeling great. It doesn't matter. I can get on stage and just play the tunes. And with Stand up, there's just a level of vulnerability where it's going to be pretty. I would think unless you're incredibly good at acting, they're going to see where you're at.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, it's not like that at all, really. No, it's not like that at all. It doesn't matter what kind of day you've had. It doesn't matter what kind of madness is going on in your life.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You can still just enter.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, when you go onto the stage, you start breathing different air and it's different. It's a different set of rules. Towards the end of my drinking, I was like. The last six months, my life was in tatters. My relationship was breaking up. I was homeless for all intents and purposes, but I was doing a show in the West End of the Line. I was doing the Rocky Horror show in the West End of London, which is a lot of moving parts and a lot of things and a lot of laughs and a big audience and high pressure. And every night when I heard the Dum Dum Dum and it was about to start, I thought, okay, everyone's going to be all right for the next 90 minutes.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's amazing that you held that shit together. I don't know how you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Only for that. And I think that's what it is. I mean, about the Stand up, though, it doesn't. I mean, look at some of the. It's perfect people that do it and then how terrible their lives are.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

When they're not on A stage. I mean, musicians too. The one that always gets me is producers, people that do all this difficult kind of work and then can, you know, balance their own checking account. It's so bizarre to me.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I know I was going to say about comedy that the place that I always just find genius is the silence in comedy and just the courage of silence. And the comedians I really like, they're just so comfortable in silence and they just don't need to speak into the silence. And maybe that's the same with music as well. Maybe it's the space.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think it's a similar thing. Robin Williams used to always say. Robin always said it was this funny, you being so salito. But Robin used to always say that it's jazz. He said stand up is jazz. And the way he did, and he always thought it was music. I certainly, nearly every stand up I know and certainly every stand up I like is musical in some way. Yeah, they're not. They. They have a musical connection at some point. They don't just do that. Maybe it's different now because young people become stand up comedians in a way that they used to become musicians.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, maybe.

[Craig Ferguson]

Like it's. It's kind of like to me, stand up.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's probably a wiser choice these days.

[Craig Ferguson]

I mean, I don't know. The thing about that for me, becoming a standup was it was like becoming a real estate agent. It was just like, well, fuck it, you know, I mean, it'll do. Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Practical.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it felt. Well, not practical, more just kind of like a second choice position. I would have rather been you. I wanted to be you, but I can't. Or didn't or wouldn't, or didn't have the talent for it or didn't have the application for it or it just wasn't there and I ended up doing something else. But I wanted to be a musician. And I think a lot of. And I've seen it with a lot of actors and standups who all really kind of want to be rock stars. And let's be honest, everybody wants to be a rock star because you don't say to someone as a compliment if they do something really well. You don't say, you know, you say, oh, you're a rock star. Thanks, man. You don't say, oh, you're a comedian. Thanks, man.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, you're a graphic artist.

[Craig Ferguson]

You're an absolute actor. Thank you.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Voiceover voice.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. You're a guy that can write really good jingles. Thank you very much. It's not. They don't do that.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Oh, it's a rockstar.

[Craig Ferguson]

Rockstar, is it?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I was talking about this to someone the other day about this. The very common actor desire to do music. And I really relate to it because I do think it's because they're spending a career being given the words and told how to say them.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And so music is absolutely autonomous. You get to do the performance. And the other thing is, if you're in a movie or a TV show, you don't get an audience clapping at the end of every scene.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, no.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You know, we get. We. We get a huge applause every four or five minutes.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what fucking bothers me about musicians is. Is as well as that you can go out and people will wait for the song you wrote 20 years ago. If I do a joke that I wrote 20 years ago, I got a fucking riot in my hands. I can't even do a joke I wrote a year ago.

[Savannah Guthrie]

There's an amazing bit of audio on the Joni Mitchell live album Miles of Isles, which is a beautiful, beautiful live album, I think, from the Greek Theater or Hollywood bowl in la. And she's about to sing Circle Game, I think. And she's a painter, obviously. Joni Mitchell, you know, great. Did a lot of her own album covers. But, you know, she's got that great voice, and she just goes, you know, I was always really envious of painters. They can be whatever they want. They can. They can either just stay in the attic and not show anybody their stuff, or they can try and sell their work for a million dollars, whatever. But, you know, no one ever said to Van Gogh, hey, man, paint Starry Night again. Yeah, Brilliant. It's brilliant.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. True story.

[Savannah Guthrie]

There's a lot of. There's a lot of, like, obvious benefits to being a musician, as a performer, where.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you're doing a great job.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Gratification. You know, it's.

[Craig Ferguson]

You're fucking great at it, though. I like being your friend.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I like being your friend.

[Craig Ferguson]

I like being your friend, and I like being. You're not uncomfortable with me being a fan, which I think is a very advanced. I think you're fine with, but I am a fan. But that's okay, because you can be a fan and a friend of someone. It's all right. It's all right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Absolutely. But I think it's a very good moment to share with anyone watching this who might not know that our worlds have smooshed together. They have, in a big way.

[Craig Ferguson]

They have the musical of a movie that I did 20 years ago.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Saving Grace, which now you've written the. The songs for the music.

[Savannah Guthrie]

For the music and lyrics for the music. And it's really good.

[Craig Ferguson]

It is really good. It is really good. And we're going to do it in London next year. I think that's what's going to happen.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. It's all feeling very good.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that's great. That means you and I will be in London.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. It's a long time. Like, we've been working on it for years and years. Like maybe eight years. And these things take a long time. And I really feel like we fashioned something fantastic.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's really cool, isn't it? When we did the preview shows, it was great.

[Savannah Guthrie]

What was it like making that film, Saving Grace?

[Craig Ferguson]

It was fine.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Did you enjoy it?

[Craig Ferguson]

I loved it. It was a great.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Brenda Bleffin.

[Craig Ferguson]

Brenda was so fantastic. We had. We laughed the whole time we were making that film in Cornwall. She's just brilliant. She. She and I made up. Did I. I think I told you this. We made up a sea shanty. Oh, I'm sure when we were in Cornwall. I can still remember it because. And I will sing it for you now. Please do. He's got blonde hair, a black mustache and a great brown bushy beard but he's ginger down below me, boys Ginger down below.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So Brenda Blethen played a really big role in my life. I was able to tell her, actually, when I met her, and it made her cry, was that Secrets and Lies was the movie that made me look for my biological mother. Oh. Because I just thought. I just thought I was very close to my mom and I was very close to my dad. But, you know, you've always got that question of, like, sure, I just want to see the other bits that make me, you know. And I watch Secrets and Lies, which is just such a work of genius. And I just thought, that's an absolute shit show. And I feel like I could handle that. And if I could handle that, then I can probably handle whatever is waiting for me. And indeed I could. But it was a big inspiration, that movie.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's really. That's kind of nice. Yeah, she's great. She. I mean, she's a lovely person and a great actress.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. She is one of my favorites.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, we got to go.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Done. Yeah. Are we seeing you soon? You're coming to our house or what? Are we. Are you going to see.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I'm going to be in London. I'm in London.

[Craig Ferguson]

You see Megan in London? Megan's going to London.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Are you Going to see her there all January. February.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think we'll be there because.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I'm also getting Clueless on stage.

[Craig Ferguson]

You're getting the musical Clueless, which you've done the music. Music and lyrics.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And it's going to be at the Trafalgar Theater in the West End from the middle of February.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, so we'll come and see that.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We'll come from.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, that'll be just an advert for Saving Grace.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That's all it is.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, knock it off. All right, well, bugger off. And I. Thanks for doing this and I'll see you.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Love you.

[Craig Ferguson]

I love you, too.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And I'll.

[Craig Ferguson]

Of course I love everyone in the podcast, but I actually do love you.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I know you're. It's actually fam. Proper fam.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it is, it is. It's family.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I remember when we first met doing Saving Grace and we were talking to someone else and we were obviously bonding on the Scottish thing and we were talking about bad language and I was like, people don't understand. And I said a good way. A good way to explain it. Is Craig here. He's a great cunt. And they were like, well, you can't. You can't. No, it's not. You can't call someone that. That's how to explain it. And you just looked at me and you went, I like you.

[Craig Ferguson]

I like you. So funny.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, there you go.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, get out of here. I'll see you in London.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Big love. See you soon.

[Craig Ferguson]

Bye. All right, Love to you. Bye. Bye.

[Katie Tunstall]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Craig Ferguson]

Partisan.

[Katie Tunstall]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm thirsty. Watch.

[Katie Tunstall]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow, it's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.

[Katie Tunstall]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Craig Ferguson]

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[Katie Tunstall]

This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations.

[Savannah Guthrie]

He?

[Katie Tunstall]

S Yu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You once had in relationships, that could.

[Katie Tunstall]

Be a sign that maybe you want.

[Savannah Guthrie]

To go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from.

[Katie Tunstall]

Improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people.

[Craig Ferguson]

So if you're human, that's like a.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Katie Tunstall]

Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com it's beginning to sound a.

[Craig Ferguson]

Lot like the holidays. The Roku Channel, your home for free and premium TV is giving you access to holiday music and genre base stations from iHeart, all for free. Find the soundtrack of the season with channels like iHeart, Christmas and North Pol Radio. The Roku Channel is available on all Roku devices, Web, Amazon, Fire TV, Google TV, Samsung TVs and the Roku mobile app on iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and turn up the cheer with iheartradio on the Roku Channel. Happy streaming.