The Presidents of the United States of America (PUSA)

Summary

Joy, a Podcast – Episode: The Presidents of the United States of America (PUSA) Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host: Craig Ferguson
Guests: Jason Finn and Chris Ballew from The Presidents of the United States of America

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Craig Ferguson opens the episode by introducing his guests, Jason Finn and Chris Ballew, members of the iconic alternative rock band The Presidents of the United States of America (PUSA). He humorously remarks on the band's name, calling it "the best name of any band in the history of bands," and sets the tone for an engaging conversation about joy, music, and personal experiences within the band.

2. Technical Challenges and Studio Experiences

Early in the conversation, Ferguson shares light-hearted frustrations about technical issues during the podcast recordings. At [03:46], Jason Finn comments on their recent experience in a professional podcast studio, expressing how moving it was to work in such an environment:

Jason Finn [03:46]: "It's amazing. We actually, Chris and I used a professional podcast studio a couple weeks ago to pre-record something for somebody and we were moved nearly to tears by how amazing it is to just walk into a podcast studio and have someone sit you down in front of a good mic and just have it all be amazing."

Ferguson jokes about the possibility of Brian Eno working in the studio, highlighting the blend of professionalism and creativity.

3. Anecdotes About Meeting Musical Heroes

The conversation delves into personal anecdotes about meeting musical legends. Chris Ballew shares his memorable yet challenging interactions with Brian Eno, recounting a moment at the Massachusetts College of Art where Eno bluntly told him to "fuck off" ([07:20]):

Chris Ballew [07:20]: "So Brian Eno just basically told me to fuck off. And I cherish that interaction probably a lot more than I would if we had had any conversation."

Ferguson empathizes, comparing it to his hypothetical interactions with David Bowie, emphasizing the pressure and unpredictability of meeting one's idols.

4. Formation and Evolution of PUSA

At [10:06], the discussion shifts to the band's origins. Chris explains how The Presidents evolved from an acoustic duo named The Dukes of Pop, highlighting their spontaneous and unrefined beginnings:

Chris Ballew [10:06]: "It started the embryonic version of the Presidents was the Dukes of Pop, which was an acoustic duo... It was all very blurry that time."

Jason Finn adds his perspective on how their unique stage antics, such as catching a softball during performances, captivated him and led to his involvement with the band ([12:12]):

Jason Finn [12:12]: "So Dave pulls a baseball mitt off of his amp and says, anybody got a ball? And so the plant throws the softball out of the crowd and he just bang catches it and puts the mitt back down. Which was to my eye in that moment, the absolute dumbest slash greatest thing I'd ever seen at a rock show."

5. Musicianship and Contrasting with Grunge

Ferguson commends the band’s musicianship, noting their ability to blend humor with technical proficiency ([15:19]):

Craig Ferguson [15:19]: "The music is very accomplished. The playing is very accomplished. It didn't seem to me that there was a joke about it."

Chris emphasizes their commitment to quality, stating that even their playful approach required a high level of skill:

Chris Ballew [15:21]: "We knew that if we were going to make funny, fun music, it had to be, you know, there had to be a certain amount of proficiency in it."

They discuss how PUSA's music stood out in the grunge-dominated Seattle scene by infusing party rock elements, drawing inspiration from earlier Seattle bands like Paul Revere and the Raiders and The Sonics ([17:10]):

Chris Ballew [17:10]: "We'll kind of talk about, well, go back further in Seattle's music history and you'll find party rock."

6. Band Dynamics and Maintaining Relationships

The hosts explore the dynamics within the band, touching upon the balance between camaraderie and underlying tensions. Chris mentions a "low level, simmering hate" that keeps the band functioning without escalating ([37:30]):

Chris Ballew [37:31]: "We have a low level, simmering hate for each other that just kind of keeps it going."

Jason reflects on the unique bond musicians share, noting that despite superficial conflicts, their shared passion for music fosters a strong connection ([37:40]):

Jason Finn [37:40]: "It's the weird. The rock band is the dumbest social unit ever invented and one of the least stable and one of the greatest."

7. Reflections on Fame and Personal Growth

The guests discuss the impact of fame on their personal lives and artistic directions. Chris shares his transition into children's music with Casper Baby Pants, inspired by his wife's vibrant collage art and his desire to create authentic, joyful music for young children ([49:22]):

Chris Ballew [49:22]: "I want to make music that comes from that planet. That's kids music. That's what I should be doing."

He elaborates on the challenges of translating the band’s success into a new, family-friendly avenue, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in his work.

8. Craig Ferguson’s Reflections on Hosting and Identity

Ferguson opens up about his experience hosting a late-night show, grappling with his Scottish accent and the pressures of maintaining a persona. He reflects on how the role differed from his expectations and the initial concerns executives had about his accent ([30:18]):

Craig Ferguson [30:18]: "I will say this... for the 10 years I was doing that show, I worried about my weight and my accent."

Ferguson discusses the transition after leaving the show, highlighting the differences in public reception compared to today’s social media-driven environment.

9. Future Endeavors and Band’s Legacy

Towards the end of the episode, the band members share their future plans. Chris and Jason confirm that they are not planning to reunite the band or embark on a new tour ([50:57]):

Chris Ballew [51:10]: "We were able to have just a really cool living and career such as it was."

They celebrate the legacy of their hit album "Lump and Peaches" turning 30, choosing to honor it without actively promoting a tour, focusing instead on personal fulfillment and happiness.

10. Concluding Thoughts and Mutual Respect

The episode wraps up with mutual admiration and reflections on influential figures in comedy and music. Craig praises collaborators like Weird Al and Doug Stanhope, highlighting their genuine talents and the authentic connections he shares with them ([56:33]):

Craig Ferguson [56:33]: "Doug Stanhope... he is incredible."

Jason and Chris express their appreciation for the genuine relationships fostered within the music and comedy industries, underscoring the value of maintaining authenticity and creativity.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Finn [03:46]: "It's amazing to just walk into a podcast studio and have someone sit you down in front of a good mic and just have it all be amazing."

• Chris Ballew [07:20]: "Brian Eno just basically told me to fuck off. And I cherish that interaction probably a lot more than I would if we had had any conversation."

• Chris Ballew [15:21]: "We knew that if we were going to make funny, fun music, it had to be... there had to be a certain amount of proficiency in it."

• Craig Ferguson [30:18]: "For the 10 years I was doing that show, I worried about my weight and my accent."

• Chris Ballew [37:31]: "We have a low level, simmering hate for each other that just kind of keeps it going."

• Jason Finn [37:40]: "The rock band is the dumbest social unit ever invented and one of the least stable and one of the greatest."

• Chris Ballew [49:22]: "That's kids music. That's what I should be doing."

---

Conclusion

In this engaging episode of Joy, a Podcast, Craig Ferguson explores the intersection of joy, creativity, and personal growth with Jason Finn and Chris Ballew of The Presidents of the United States of America. Through humorous anecdotes, heartfelt reflections, and insightful discussions, the trio delves into their musical journey, the dynamics of band life, and their individual paths post-PUSA. The conversation underscores the essence of finding joy in authentic creative expression, whether in rock music or children's entertainment, and highlights the enduring bonds forged through shared artistic endeavors.

Transcript

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[Jason Finn]

That is friendly.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what? I have to say right away, gentlemen, how sorry I am. Cause this is. The people listening or watching this will not know. But this is the third time we've attempted this. The third time because we tried it when I was in my house in my apartment in London and now we tried it again from that same apartment or something, I can't remember. And then, anyway, here I am in the best studio in London.

[Jason Finn]

It's amazing. We actually, Chris and I used a professional podcast studio a couple weeks ago to pre record something for somebody and we were moved nearly to tears by how amazing it is to just walk into a podcast studio and have someone sit you down in front of a good mic and just have it all be amazing.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's kind of incredible. It's incredible. I'm going to keep doing it. If I can afford it, I'm going to keep doing it because I think this is fancy. I suspect that Brian Eno probably works in here too.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, I think I saw him go by behind him.

[Craig Ferguson]

He does work here. You were gonna tell me a story about Brian Eno? Was it you, Chris? Were gonna tell me a story about Brian Eno?

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, yeah. I've had three different experiences where I've met my heroes and it's gone bad.

[Craig Ferguson]

Brian Eno was definitely a hero for me. So I don't want to meet him.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, yeah, right. Sometimes you don't like as a side bit story real quick, I went to Nantucket one time and saw Jonathan Richmond in a tiny little theater on Nantucket. I mean, we were second row right there. He's just being his insane self and playing Spanish Flamenco guitar for 20 minutes. Just an incredible performance. And we were supposed to go. We knew the people that promoted the show, set up the show. So my wife and I were supposed to go out for drinks with him afterwards. And after his performance, I just said to the people who were hosting the after Thing. I can't do it. I can't go out and have a regular conversation with this guy. There's no way.

[Jason Finn]

I understand.

[Craig Ferguson]

I would never allow the bookers. When I was doing Late Night, I wouldn't allow the bookers to even approach David Bowie just in case he said, yes, I don't want it. Don't want you to be here. Because what happens if he turns up and he's like, I hate you, Craig. You're a fucking asshole. And then I'd be like, well, that was the point.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, well, he. He. And he already roasted Ricky Gervais on his own show.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's right. Ricky made that. Although Ricky says that he was lovely.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

By all accounts, incredibly love. So, Brian Eno, what happened?

[Chris Ballew]

So this is the third of the. The jewels in my stupid crown where I met my heroes. But the other two are stories for another time. But I was a young starving artist in Boston. He. In the late 80s, he was coming to Mass College of Art to do a presentation of some sort. So naturally I went. And as I approached the auditorium, there's all these big glass doors. He's outside the auditorium talking to somebody, obviously a friend. He's kind of conversing and hanging out with this person. And I notice as I approach, different people that are walking up and kind of taking a moment to say, shake his hand and kind of acknowledge, thanks for coming, and it's great to meet you and all this stuff. I see three or four people do that, and I'm like the fifth person who's gonna walk up and shake his hand and say something. And he just turns to me and says, would you please fuck off?

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[Chris Ballew]

Because he was trying to have a conversation with his friend, so he's like, but you please fuck off. I'm trying to talk to my friend. I was the straw that broke the candlestick.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. So.

[Chris Ballew]

So Brian Eno just basically told me to fuck off. And I cherish that interaction probably a lot more than I would if we.

[Craig Ferguson]

Had had any conversation. I. Yeah, he just.

[Jason Finn]

But maybe Brian Eno had the courage to. To tell you that when I always wanted to and just have.

[Craig Ferguson]

You haven't done it yet?

[Jason Finn]

I don't know.

[Craig Ferguson]

You haven't done it yet?

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, not yet. Not yet. Yeah. Yeah, we're. But listen, 35 years in, I think that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that a Basquiat behind you, Jason? Is that a Basquiat?

[Jason Finn]

I wish I would be. I would be zooming in from my private island if that were the case. But, no, that's actually a. That's a portrait of my old bandmate Kevin from Love Battery, done by the regional Pacific Northwest artist Ed Fotheringham. Very nice piece. Yeah, there's some other good stuff here. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I just saw the crown, and I thought, it looks like a Basquiat crown.

[Jason Finn]

I think it's an homage. It's from the earliest 90s. And that series, all of the subjects had crowns on there. Bruce Pavitt, one of the creators of Sub Pop, was in there and one of the Mud Honey guys. It's a. It's regional Pacific Northwest art history.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, Regional.

[Craig Ferguson]

Regional royalty. Yeah. I think that, you know, I'm always a little intimidated by you types from that time period in that zip code that you guys are from, because it is very arty and very influential in pop culture to this day, you know. But you guys were kind of slightly after grunge. Is that what you call it, after grunge?

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, yeah, we. We were fun.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's right. That's right. I knew there was something like that.

[Chris Ballew]

And if only we could come up with that at the time. We were constantly being pressured, like, what do you call your music? What's happening here? What do we put. What umbrella can we put it under so we could sell more of it?

[Jason Finn]

What are we to make of this response, this obvious response to grunge that you're doing? Yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

And it was only, like, four years ago that I came up with Funge. So, whoops, I missed the boat there.

[Craig Ferguson]

But isn't that always the way, this stuff that you always think, you know, if only I'd have, you know, told Brian Eno to fuck off. Like, when you got up to him, as he turned around, you could have said, you know what? Fuck off, Brian Eno.

[Jason Finn]

Or at least if you muster to back at you or something. Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

How do you.

[Jason Finn]

I know you are, but what am I.

[Chris Ballew]

Or just finger go.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

But let me ask you this, because you guys have been working together off and on for a long time, right?

[Jason Finn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

How did that come about? How did it start? Were you like, what happened, Chris?

[Chris Ballew]

Well, it started. The embryonic version of the Presidents was the Dukes of Pop, which was a acoustic duo, which is me and Dave Dieterer, the guitar player. And I used to work at a coffee house here in Seattle called the Last Exit. And on Monday nights, I would take my apron off and we'd play open mic kind of style sets at the Last Exit. And that was kind of the beginning of me and Dave connecting as songwriters and performers and. And that Was super fun and loosey goosey. And then I went to Boston, lived in Boston, lived in Seattle, back and forth. Finally I settled back in Seattle in like 91 or 2, 3, something like that. It's all very blurry that time.

[Craig Ferguson]

You doing a lot of drugs and alcohol and stuff.

[Jason Finn]

I was doing my share.

[Chris Ballew]

I was doing my share dead back then.

[Craig Ferguson]

It was before cell phones that the cell phones of the 1990s was drugs and alcohol. It's different now.

[Chris Ballew]

It's true. Yeah, it's true. Well, one big difference really is that we depended on each other to eliminate boredom.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Chris Ballew]

You know, we had to schedule a show on a Tuesday night so that we wouldn't die of boredom. And so out of that, well, really out of the joy of finally moving back from the east coast to Seattle, I started writing songs and Dave and I started playing again as a duo. This time we were electrified. And we had a bass amp that we both plugged into. And then we put that into a speaker cabinet made out of an acoustic guitar case. Because when I moved back from the east coast, I didn't have room in my car for my bass cabinet. So I just took the speaker out and brought the speaker. So we were, you know, held together with spit and chewing gum at that time until we played a gig with my friend Dave Thiele sitting in on drums. And Jason was there. And I might let you tell this part, Jason. There was a, there was a softball.

[Jason Finn]

Sure.

[Chris Ballew]

Okay.

[Jason Finn]

So yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

How did you come into this?

[Jason Finn]

I didn't know anything about these guys except I knew Dave a little bit from whatever peeing nest to him at the stall somewhere. But they were performing and it was pretty fun. But then there was this moment where Dave had planted someone in the audience and he just. Dave pulls a baseball mitt off of his amp and says, anybody got a ball? And so the plant throws the softball out of the crowd and he just bang catches it and puts the mitt back down. Which was to my eye in that moment, the absolute dumbest slash greatest thing I'd ever seen at a rock show. So I was instantly obsessed with these guys and I started a sort of a months long campaign to just, you know, hey, you got to just drop what you're doing and start a band with me. And they, they reacted to that the way anyone would, which is to say, you are a lunatic.

[Craig Ferguson]

Please go. Yeah. The Brian technique.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Would you please off.

[Jason Finn]

So yeah, after a couple rounds of fuck offs and back atches and your moms, we, we got, we, we Got it together. I, I, that part I don't even remember. I don't remember anyone.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that the first lineup of the presidents of the United States of America. That was it, I would say, except that.

[Jason Finn]

That, of course, Chris's friend Dave Thiele was, Was sort of the original drummer.

[Chris Ballew]

But that was a different band. That was go.

[Jason Finn]

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

Different songs and stuff. And Dave was a sort of hobbyist drummer, so he was, yeah, he wasn't, like, going to make a career out of playing drums, but I remember, yeah, Dave and I were kind of like, we don't need a drummer. Because part of the fun of doing what we were doing was we were kind of trying to rock out. We're like some nerds that are trying. We're reaching for being a rock band, but not, you know, the, not achieving it so that the crowd would come and see us and be filled with empathy. Like, look at those poor dorks trying to rock those, you know, their hearts.

[Jason Finn]

It was not an act. These guys. One of my favorite details about them in the earliest days is they would show up and, you know how guitarists always have. You have your gear, you have your, your, your guitar, and on the other hand, you have your, you know, whatever your, your case is that you have your pedals and stuff. These guys would both show up with little tote sacks with, like, with like, a cord and a pedal in there.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

Like, hey, it's the tote sack, guys. What's up, rock and roll?

[Chris Ballew]

Like a faded tote bag that says New Mexico on it or something.

[Craig Ferguson]

That sounds pretty cool. I mean, it still, it has, it has coolness about it. But what I think is kind of interesting, particularly about the Presidents, is that you guys, I mean, there's real musicianship in that band when you, I mean, even though there's, like, there's fun, and it seems to not take itself so seriously. It's. The music is very accomplished. The playing is very accomplished. It didn't seem to me that there was a joke about. I mean, I think that always. About Weird Al, you know, that, you know, you can think Al is making fun, but he follows the rule. If you're gonna parody something, you have to be better than it, you know?

[Chris Ballew]

Yes, absolutely.

[Jason Finn]

Very tight ship in Al's world. And we know that from when he did Gump. You know, I'm blanking on his name. The drummer contacted me out of the blue, and he just had some really specific questions about Bermuda Schwartz. Bermuda Schwartz, that's right. He was like, now listen, on the Second verse, you're doing this thing with the floor Tom and the. And what's it. And. Yeah, I need to recreate that, you.

[Chris Ballew]

Know, so well, part of was we wanted to appear not to care at all while simultaneously caring deeply. So we. We knew that if we were going to make funny, fun music, it had to be, you know, there had to be a certain amount of proficiency in it. Otherwise it's just, you know, it's. It's a. It's a hat on a hat.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, kind of. I mean, I think that that was quite interesting. But I mean the same thing. I mean, I get a vibe from you. It's not the same band, but I get a vibe like they might be giants, who were always producing songs which didn't necessarily take themselves seriously lyrically or they had some humor in it. Cause it seemed to me that particularly grunge, and I think that's. Correct me if I'm going way off in the wrong tangent here, but the fungener that came out of it because grunge was pretty poor faced and grumpy. It was quite an adolescent vibe. It was great, but it had an adolescent vibe to it. And I think that what you were doing, suddenly it was like. It seemed like there was an extra layer of confidence, like, we don't give a fuck. We don't give a fuck what you think. But clearly you did.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, we did. I mean, part of what we used to always say when asked, like, how do we resonate against the grunge explosion and stuff, we'd kind of talk about, well, go back further in Seatt music history and you'll find party rock.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right?

[Chris Ballew]

You know, you'll find Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Kingsman, the Sonics. Although the Sonics were pretty intense, but still, you know, you could party to it. And then more recently, the Young Fresh fellows, which were like heroes of mine. And so, yeah, we would always kind of leapfrog back over the grunge thing to the source for us, which was Northwest Party, was it.

[Jason Finn]

But if you're also. If you're implying that we're also genius musicians, then we'll take it.

[Chris Ballew]

Correct.

[Jason Finn]

Correct.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I kind of am a little bit.

[Chris Ballew]

I heard that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I kind of am a little bit.

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[Craig Ferguson]

Hello, this is Craig Ferguson and I want to let you know I have a brand new stand up comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm so happy and I would be so happy if you checked it out to watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel, he Craig Ferguson show. And it's just right there. Just click it and play it and it's free. I can't. Look, I'm not gonna come around your house and show you how to do it. If you can't do it, then you can't have it. But if you can figure it out, it's yours. I remember when. Cause I worked on a television show called the Drew Carey Show. I don't know if you remember it.

[Chris Ballew]

And never heard of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

And when Drew played me, because he played me when you guys did the COVID of the old Ian Hunter thing. Cleveland Rocks.

[Chris Ballew]

Cleveland Rocks.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I heard that, I was like, spander. That's the first time I'd heard the band. I'm like, spander, fucking bangin'I. Mean, they're great. I was in bands before. I. You know, I was such a bad drummer that any band that I was in immediately became funny. And so I had to. I kind of leaned into comedy because I thought, well, I'm bringing that to rock and roll anyway. But the idea of. I mean, the band was really good. It was all. I don't think you ever fooled me for a minute about, oh, hey, we're just wacky. It doesn't. That's not.

[Chris Ballew]

Well, the caveat with that is that in the beginning, when we had, you know, 50 people at a little place called the Romper Room, this little bar, that's where we could be as sort of discombobulated yet still pull off the show as possible. Then when we stood up in front of, you know, we had success, and we had to stand up in front of a. A lot of people. We kind of got more into, like, revving up the machine and getting tighter and tighter and hitting our marks and stuff like that. And the Cleveland Rocks thing, I think, came when we were really kind of at the peak of, you know, efficiency as well. I mean, being alive.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Jason Finn]

Definitely. Because we didn't really prepare for that. We were just. We were in the studio doing something else, and they're like, yeah, you want to take a pass on this song? Cleveland Rocks for a TV show? We're like, okay. And we just, you know, banged through it twice.

[Craig Ferguson]

And that. That was.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, well, I mean, we knew ahead of time.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah. But, yeah, because. Because we were on the Rosie O'Donnell show and Drew was a guest as well, apparently. And he came to. For some reason, the backstage was. Little trail, came to our trailer and came in, as I remember it. And I might have embellished this over the years. And Jason can confirm or deny this, but I remember him coming in with a supermodel on each arm, like girls that were significantly taller than him. But this may be my creative writing.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think it's a generous use of the word supermodel, but I understand, but I average model. Drew went through a period.

[Jason Finn]

I confirmed that he went through a.

[Craig Ferguson]

Period, I think in the early part of success where, you know, that was part of his life. He very quickly, that went away and he got, you know, his thing became driving a Mini that had a British flag on it. You know, I mean, it's like he.

[Jason Finn]

Has some ties to the Seattle Sounders, the mls. And he would, particularly in the early seasons, he would come to a lot of the games and be right on the side of the field. And my family had front row seating tickets at that time. And he would walk by and by. There were no supermodels, but there was an earnest team of young people that were there. They were obviously doing something professionally oriented with him. And it would. Occasionally I would be like, drew. And he'd be like, hey, president's guy. And I would only do that because it would blow the minds of everyone in my section. So.

[Craig Ferguson]

So good times for me that happened.

[Jason Finn]

Do you remember from that. That. That day that we met him in the. In the trailer, here's how little I knew about the show. He was already, I think, pitching this, The. The idea of this theme song. And I immediately asked him if I could tell him a joke. And I proceeded to tell this joke about Cincinnati, not Cleveland.

[Craig Ferguson]

So they're pretty close to each other. It's all right.

[Jason Finn]

But he was very. He. He laughed his ass off it at the. At that middling joke and never, never corrected me. So good on you.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, the thing I used to say, hey, and he used to go, hey, you, to me. It took him three seasons to realize that I actually worked on the show. I think he's 60 episodes. It was a long time. Cause he called me Mr. Wick for about two years. He's like, hey, Mr. Wick. I'm like, it's not my name. I do it.

[Jason Finn]

Can I ask a question about the show? And you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

You're from Glasgow, right? I am Glaswegian.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[Jason Finn]

Great word.

[Craig Ferguson]

It is a good word.

[Jason Finn]

Good word. You were doing something different, accent wise on a show.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did it.

[Jason Finn]

No, no. Scots.

[Craig Ferguson]

No. What happened was. This is a true story. What happened was that I auditioned for the part of the Spanish photographer in the sitcom Suddenly Susan There'd been a. There'd been a hiccup. And obviously, you know, the accent work that I was doing was unacceptable to the team that were making Suddenly Susan. They wanted something a bit more Spanish. But the casting guy that was there said, hey, we've got another show. They're looking for an English guy. Can you do an English accent? And I was like, season George, Yes, I can. And that's how I ended up doing the Caliente. So cuidado. That's my Spanish.

[Jason Finn]

I just remember when you, when your late night show started, you talking and I'm like, that's what is happening. I guess at that time I wasn't as. I couldn't pick the Scott.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's hard to hear.

[Jason Finn]

It broke out of a house.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think as well. What happened is the. Because I was. Because Mr. Wick was a very. Is a very arch character. It's very good. Kelly, you're absolutely. You're fired. No, that's. I mean, there it is.

[Jason Finn]

There it is.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's it. Yes, I absolutely talked like this entire show and because that's the only thing that anybody knows you from. I mean, I'm always amazed when you see these English actors that like, do you ever watch Yellowstone? You should watch Yellowstone because there's an actress in it. I can't remember her name, forgive me, but she plays Beth, the very, very American, kind of great character in Yellowstone and she's English. I heard her in an interview. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it. But you get locked in with the sound of someone and then it just, it becomes part of their whole identity. So it changed for me after I had to convince people I wasn't from England. When I started doing the late night.

[Jason Finn]

Show, they're like, man, his Scottish accent is terrible.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's pretty hard.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

Well, I've always wanted to ask you something actually, because I am such a fan of your late night show. I mean, it was so refreshing. I don't think I ever felt like the guest had been produced when they sat down, you know what I mean? Like, it felt like maybe they were. Maybe you knew what you were going to talk about, but it just felt like, you know, let's just hang out. And that was so refreshing.

[Craig Ferguson]

It got more like that as time went on. But it's kind of like the way you guys describe in the music. Like at first, the first year or so when I was on Late Night, nobody was watching it. So I could fuck up as much as possible and you know, and Kind of find my way. And by the time, you know, people started watching the show, I kind of knew what I was doing. I got comfortable. And I realized that also as the show became more popular, better guests started coming on as well, which, you know, people who were, like, familiar with the terrain. But it's. I think I always approached it kind of like music anyway. The same way as I approached Stand up, is like, you gotta rehearse, but it doesn't mean you're gonna play those notes. But you gotta practice. You got to pick up the guitar every day, or you gotta. You gotta play the drums every day. It doesn't mean you're gonna play that. But you've got to be there, you know, you gotta be excited.

[Jason Finn]

You gotta get the rep. For sure. Yeah. And that's kind of. We were. That was our credo the whole time, was we wouldn't really rehearse ever. And maybe that led to some extra shenanigans early in. In like, a, you know, early in a tour, first couple shows, but as much excitement as just plain clams. But, yeah, I don't know. Keeping it fresh.

[Chris Ballew]

There was a sensation I would have when we would go on tour. The fourth show was where we stopped just playing the notes and started playing the song. It was a subtle shift where it was like, we inhabit the song because now we're not worried about where the notes are and that kind of stuff. But what I really wanted to ask you. And by the way, I did recognize how comfortable you got. Cause sometimes I think you were almost completely reclined as a host. You were like, just. Yeah, I was like, when is Craig gonna bring out, like, a cot and just lie down while everybody talks? But here's what I've always wanted to ask you. And this might be totally off base, but do you think that your accent was an impediment to you just taking over the world of Late night? Like, I feel like you should have been a Carson level, you know, human in that world.

[Jason Finn]

There you go.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah. Was. Do you think your accent was a glass ceiling like that?

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't know. I mean, possibly if it had been something that had been aspirational for me. But I think what happens is that I came from a different angle. And I wonder if this is the same for you guys. I did not. Look, I didn't grow up watching Carson. I didn't grow up watching David Letterman. I didn't grow up watching Late Night. I grew up in Scotland. Late Night in Scotland is the pub. So, you know, it's like It's a very different thing. It had no mystique for me. I took the job in late night because I had just got divorced and I had a little kid and I wanted to be in town. And this was a job that would keep me there all the time, you know, like I would have to work every day. So that's why I went after the job. When I got the job, I fell in love with it, but it wasn't something that was aspirational for me. So I never came at it from a place of great reverence. And I think the accent was a weird thing because I remember when I started all the executives saying, well, this is gonna crash and burn because of the accent. And of course, I don't think it was a problem when I was doing it. I will say this, though, and I've said this before, but for the 10 years I was doing that show, I worried about my weight and my accent. Then when I quit, they hired James Corden.

[Jason Finn]

Yes, yes.

[Craig Ferguson]

So I think that perhaps I was worried about the wrong thing.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

James was looking pretty tight, though, when he started. My only previous experience being the. What was the BBC show that he was on before that.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a great show.

[Jason Finn]

I mean, he was a little round, I think.

[Craig Ferguson]

He's a terrific performer, I think. And he's a really nice guy. I've always really liked him. He took some hay when he took over the show, but I think that I did too. People forget that. Cause it's a long time ago. And when I took over the show, the hate that you got, it was no social media. So, you know, you took the hate in the New York Post or the New York Times or by the time that he took over, there was social media. So you take hate, but it is what it is. I mean, it's the whole thing about when the new bass player turns up, the fans that have been watching you for years are very angry and then they forgive you or not take note.

[Jason Finn]

Chris, old bass player. Well, yeah, look, you dodged a bullet, Craig, with the Late Night wars. We know now that there was a lot of like, that's just a blood sport, that whole who's going to host what next and all that stuff. And probably you would have gotten screwed by that, by that asshole Brian that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think if you.

[Jason Finn]

You would have gotten the gig and he would have gotten in there.

[Craig Ferguson]

And have you ever seen that little animation on the Internet? I don't know who made it. It's a work of genius where it's an imagining of Brian Eno, David Bowie and Tony Visconti writing the Low album in Enhancer Studios. Writing this down right now is genius. I, I, you got to look it up. It's, it's okay. It's insanely good. It's just that that's going in the queue immediately. I don't know who did it. And I feel bad because, and I'm sure someone on the Internet will point it out, but it is a work of comedic genius. Whoever does Bowie's voice is spot on. And they have, you know, Brian Eno and Tony Visconti is this character who's saying, can I be in it? And David Bowie saying, I'm going to make up a special language that no one understands for this. It's just lovely. It's very funny.

[Chris Ballew]

Okay.

[Jason Finn]

I can think of so many other episodes of that show I would watch.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

You know, like, okay, let's do David Bowie producing Iggy Pops, the Idiot.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Like, Transformer album when David Bowie.

[Jason Finn]

Fantastic.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. Did you ever run into, like, you know, I know you said that, you know, don't, don't meet your heroes, but in the world of rock and roll, you are going to run into these people all the time. Did you ever collaborate with people that just blew your mind? You can't believe you were doing it.

[Chris Ballew]

Well, number one of that ilk would be Weird Al himself. I mean, the fact that he and I are still good friends and talk on the phone, and he's just such an amazing human. He produced a video for us for a song from one of our later records. We've jumped, you know, we've ambushed each other on stage, at each other's shows countless times. Yeah. He's one of those people that I'm hanging out with or being collaborative with, and I'm just like, pinch, pinch, pinch. How did I get.

[Craig Ferguson]

Amazing. Did he ever tell you about when he came in my house in Scotland? No. He came to the house. We had a party. Remember? There was a, like, I know he has this place in Hawaii, but there was a big kind of, like, thing, and he couldn't go there one summer. And so he came to this party that we were having at my house in Scotland. And I don't know if you know this, but Al. But he plays the accordion and. Yeah, good to know. Good to know. You did know. Yeah. In Scotland, we were having this party with this accordion band, you know, and these accordion.

[Chris Ballew]

As you do in Scotland.

[Craig Ferguson]

So I said to the accordion players, hey, there's a guy. Do you mind if this guy sits in with you a little bit. They're like, oh, that weird. Al walked in, who is a God amongst accordions, like a guitar band, and say, hey, Jimi Hendrix is here. Do you mind if he sits? They were blown away. But of course, Al wouldn't tell you because it makes him. It would be aggrandizing for him, and that's not who he is. But it was amazing to see these people bow down to his greatness. It was fantastic.

[Jason Finn]

That would be an amazing thing to see. I'm jealous. As Chris says, we've interacted with Al a ton, but, man, seeing him walk into a room of 25 accordion players must be insane.

[Craig Ferguson]

It wasn't really 25, but let's say there was 25.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

But he.

[Chris Ballew]

I did have the pleasure of one time introducing Al to Wayne Kramer from the MC5 and figuring that they would maybe have nothing to talk about. But it was just a social experiment and they hit it off like crazy. They squirreled away in a corner and just talked music for hours.

[Craig Ferguson]

But I think. I think that is a thing with musicians, that there is a kind of weird. Like comedians are different now, but when I was coming up, comedians were very aggressive and competitive with each other. And I always felt with musicians, maybe young musicians are a bit like that too, as they're making their bones and stuff. But I always felt with musicians, if you get them onto music, they're fine. You can be a rapper and a classical flautist will find a way to. To connect, you know, because it seems to be the desire to be a musician is, in a weird way, a connection thing. Particularly people who play in bands. You know that because people who hate each other will play in bands for years because there's a musical relationship. What I'm saying is, do you guys hate each other?

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, I mean, I've always wanted to share this. I'm glad we're here today.

[Craig Ferguson]

Sure.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

I have an announcement.

[Chris Ballew]

We have a low level, simmering hate for each other that just kind of keeps it going.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's an odd relationship, though. Musicians. It's a weird.

[Jason Finn]

It's the weird. The rock band is the dumbest social unit ever invented and one of the least stable and one of the greatest. And it might not be around for another 50 years, but we were around for the middle section of it. And we do a good job because we've never been huge road dogs or workhorses. So we've. We've definitely had enough time between things to not get to DEFCON either 1 or 5, I forget which ones.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I was.

[Chris Ballew]

Orange.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah. You just go on and maintain a nice DEFCON 3 the entire.

[Craig Ferguson]

But it is.

[Chris Ballew]

Well, it's funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Chris Ballew]

It's funny too because when there's. Whenever I see like a list of the greatest hundred bands of the 90s or something, we're not on it. Or it's like the greatest bands From Seattle from 1994, we're not on it.

[Jason Finn]

We actually. If you.

[Chris Ballew]

It's hard to find, but if You.

[Jason Finn]

Google Greatest 700 bands of the 90s, we sneak in there.

[Craig Ferguson]

I have never owned those things either.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

But here's the thing. I see that as a superpower because I feel like that means that the fans that do show up are true fans and the fans we do have like a connection with are true fans who aren't. You know. It's not like we were trying to take over the world. We just wanted to take over the room that we were in on any given day.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that's right.

[Chris Ballew]

It fit. It fit us perfectly.

[Jason Finn]

I also think and. And enough people have been involved over the. Over the long term that we've. We were able to have just a really cool living and career such as it was. Slash is including actually great, great shows in Glasgow time to time. We. Our first ever was at King Tutz Wawa Hut.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a great. That is a great.

[Jason Finn]

It can't possibly still be right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it's still there.

[Jason Finn]

Oh, good for them. It was old when we were there.

[Craig Ferguson]

And yeah, that's where the. Where Oasis got signed to their first record deal was in there after a show they did that night. Famously that it had just opened when I was leaving bands in Glasgow because I was in. I was in bands early 80s, I think it opened in the mid 80s. King Tuts. Waw Wahh.

[Jason Finn]

Did you not get to play there?

[Craig Ferguson]

I think I did actually. I did play there.

[Jason Finn]

Okay.

[Craig Ferguson]

I played there with a band called James King and the Lone Wolves, which always baffled me because if we were lone wolves, I couldn't understand why there was four of us. But no one asked that question. The band were pretty good, but they a bad name, I think.

[Jason Finn]

I disagree. It's a little serious.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, well, we were serious. We were angry. We were very angry and drunk. We were an angry drunk band. But I think that market is full. I think that that's a very, very well populated area. It certainly was then and continues to be for sure.

[Jason Finn]

And that Chris and I, we've always sort of maintained that Doing a different thing and just fulfilling a certain sort of almost a niche.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

To not be of the joy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. To not be angry all the time I think is okay. It's probably the coolest emotion when you're young. But I think when you get to above 30 and you put on about £10, if you're angry, you start to look like an angry clown. And then angry clowns are not. It's not good. You have to be an upbeat clown.

[Chris Ballew]

Either that or you, you continue to try to be angry after you have great success and you're being, your life is being pampered and. But you're still pissed off.

[Carl from Bodi]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Because you.

[Chris Ballew]

But you know, a lot of you were talking earlier about like the sort of dark cloud of grunge. Yeah. But you, if you isolate any, a bunch of those band members and have a beer with them, they're hilarious and funny and great, you know, light hearted people. There's a few, you know, there's a few dark souls that anchor, you know, the angst to the, to the movement, to the scene. Right. Like generally the lead singers. Yeah. But you know, you get any of those guys who play bass or drums in those band, bands aside, and they're delightful.

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[Craig Ferguson]

A little more connected, but a little further apart.

[Chris Ballew]

But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Craig Ferguson]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Chris Ballew]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Craig Ferguson]

At Ameca, we understand that looking out.

[Chris Ballew]

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[Craig Ferguson]

It's human.

[Chris Ballew]

Ameca empathy is our best policy.

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[Craig Ferguson]

I always felt the same thing in movies. When, if ever you talk to people who write horror movies, they're delightful. People who write scary, like Stephen King is such an upbeat, nice man. And people who write romantic comedies are fucking evil. They are so twisted and dark and pissed off, it's unbelievable.

[Chris Ballew]

I love that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think that the. I've seen it so often that it's gotta be a thing. There's gotta be something in it. It's not just. I've seen it once. I've seen it a lot. People who write upbeat, cheery stuff. Mind you, some of your stuff is quite upbeat and cheery and you guys seem okay.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, well, okay for now. That was actually that. My whole life, for some weird reason as a songwriter, I've been sort of working my way toward the goal of having the music I make be exactly a reflection of who I really am. I don't know exactly why I was driven by that, but it drove me to eventually after the presidents do music for little kids, little 0 to 5 year olds as Casper baby pants and that. That was when I arrived at that, I was like, ah, here it is. Here's like there's no pretense of adult issues or anger or sexuality or whatever. That's all removed and I'm just like the innocent core of Planet Music.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you have Kit?

[Jason Finn]

Craig was asking whether you're an asshole in private. Right, right. Let's talk here.

[Craig Ferguson]

But do you, do you have kids?

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, I do. I have a 26 year old and a 24.

[Craig Ferguson]

So did you start doing Casper Baby Pants when your kids were little? Was that the thing that. That brought you into it?

[Chris Ballew]

No, no, not at all. It was funny when the presidents were successful. I felt great about it. I was very. It was a very double edged sword. You know, I felt like validated and excited and, you know, we were all becoming successful and navigating those waters and everything and. But I also felt kind of unsafe. I was as a child listening to the Beatles in my bedroom. I imagined that fame was like a doorway into a room where everybody else in that room is famous and you're immediately accepted and all your problems go away. And it's just this beautiful experience. The velvet rope is removed and you get to go in. So I got to experience that velvet rope removed. I go in the room. But immediately I noticed at the other end of the room is another velvet rope and another door. And I realized, oh, shit, those things, those doors go on forever. Meaning, like there is an end to.

[Craig Ferguson]

The doors because the last one, you go through the last one and it's Keanu Reeves, but until you get to Keanu Reeves, it's just velvet rope after velvet rope. But I understand. When I was a kid, I thought that if I hated going to the dentist and I thought if I get on tv, I won't have to go to the dentist. Which is the opposite. You're never away from the fucking dentist when you're on tv. It's just like, it's all.

[Chris Ballew]

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So with that in mind, you know, the. The band for me was kind of like this weird skin that I was wearing that was in some ways very comfortable. And in some ways like, ah, I gotta get out of here. So I started, you know, this gut feeling I had that I was supposed to be doing something also or something else welled up. And I was experimenting on the side for like 10 or 15 years. And finally the experiments got small and acoustic and kind of intimate. And then I met my wife Kate, and I saw her art and she does this amazing, like collage art with animals. And it's very well done and it's bright and beautiful and silly and has integrity and it's, you know, beautiful happy universe that she's created with her art. And I was like, I want to make music that comes from that planet. And I did. And literally a cartoon light bulb, a big one, went off over my head and I realized it's kids music. That's what I should be doing. And specifically the 0 to 5 year olds, because they're like little Buddhas, you know, they're like little enlightened beings. And hanging out with them and writing for them is really exciting thing because that's how I got into it.

[Craig Ferguson]

I have kids and when they were young, my. My wife would. She has an aversion to children's music and a lot of people do.

[Chris Ballew]

It's.

[Craig Ferguson]

And she would play problematic to this day. My. My youngest is now 14 and he has. The song from his childhood is Atmospheres by Joy Division. It's like don't walk away. But he seems to be all right, though. He seems to be okay.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't need children's music really. But my whole goal was to make music. I used to say that I was actually a parents musician. I was writing. 90% of the choices I made were for the parents. I was like, what's not going to drive them out of the room into another part of the house? And a lot of kids musicians pay lip service to that concept. But then they do not deliver. So I was very focused on the family experience and it was a really amazing songwriting challenge to kind of.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did you guys do live shows for little kids?

[Chris Ballew]

Actually the president still one kids show at the town hall, but I had a trio for a little bit. But it got kind of noisy and crazy and I decided to go solo. So I did like 1300 shows as Casper Baby Pants by myself before hanging up my boots when the pandemic came along.

[Craig Ferguson]

Your booties. Booties, yeah. Yeah. So what are you guys doing now then? What's happening in the way forward? The band going out again? You putting the band back together?

[Chris Ballew]

No, we're not.

[Craig Ferguson]

We are definitely not going to do that now. Hear this.

[Chris Ballew]

No news. Exactly.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that true, though?

[Chris Ballew]

You know, it's.

[Jason Finn]

It is true. We're just. I mean, never say never and stay tuned and we'll let you know. But for now, no. And for. For future, no. But we. We are sort of celebrating this year or observing that the big popular record, the Lump and Peaches record, is turning 30, which is a thing that people mostly celebrate and observe in service of a tour. But we're not gonna do that. So we're just gonna. We're just gonna be happy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Doesn't anything. Don't you have anything though, you. You wanna know, you wanna scratch that it. And hear the crowd, hear those songs again.

[Chris Ballew]

You know, I really do not. I. I love to. In my whole life, like the big picture, I see things as arcs, you know, like acknowledging when a creative arc is exciting and on its way up. And oh my God, here we are on the plateau and okay, there it goes. And another one will come up in its place. That arc is just arced. And I'm very, very proud of what we did and what we achieved and, you know, how we presented ourselves and how we peppered the world with this joyful music. But it's art for me.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's exactly how I feel about the late night show. Which is interesting because when people say, do the late night. Do another late night show, I go, why would I do another late night show? I did a late night show. And that. It almost got to like in the last year of it. Once I knew that I wasn't going to do it beyond the end of my contract, it actually got better, I think when I knew I was going to never do it again. It was the best it ever was because it had a. That I'm about to abandon this quality, which doesn't come that easy. I don't know if I can. If I'll ever find anything again that quite does that. With the exception of doing standup, which is. Which is like my instrument now. I mean, it's like, you know, the, you know, that's what I do. You know, that's what I play here or I play it. There's. What was that?

[Chris Ballew]

You recognize that?

[Jason Finn]

Is that the skeleton?

[Chris Ballew]

You know what? I'm doing that. No, no, no.

[Craig Ferguson]

What? Come on. What is that?

[Chris Ballew]

It's in your own stand up special. Come on.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Promoting my stand up special?

[Chris Ballew]

No, no, not promoting. It's in the stand up. It's in Tickle, Tickle fight.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tickle fight was years ago. I can't remember all that. That's like remembering the middle age from Peaches. I can't remember that. How the do you remember? You don't remember that?

[Chris Ballew]

All right, all right, that's fair. That's fair. You've moved on.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Chris Ballew]

I don't know. So, Jason, what's it like? How do you relate to the band and, and the. And the present day and all that kind of stuff? What's your feeling?

[Jason Finn]

Pardon me? I'm not familiar. No, I'm glad. I think it's. I. I will say that what Chris was just saying about the, the arc being completed. You'll often, you'll always hear that from band guys that are, that are talking about why they're not performing at that time. It's usually right before another cycle or tour is announced. I can say with some authority, fully witnessing in the most candid moments, Chris literally is the one, the one individual who is like, he just wants to be out there and walking around in the trees.

[Chris Ballew]

True.

[Jason Finn]

And he digs the trees. Moved into an area where there's a lot of trees and that's just, you know, it, it's complete.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's great.

[Milo's Rewards Advertiser]

That's great.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a.

[Jason Finn]

And I, I, yeah, I, I tend to agree vibe wise, among other things. Playing rock and roll, especially we, the way we do is pretty physical. And I'm not gonna, we're not gonna bore you with the details, but the collection of dumb, stupid bullshit in our shoulders and our elbows and our, and our, it's, it, it's robust or I.

[Chris Ballew]

Guess the opposite of robust.

[Jason Finn]

It's fragile.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm trying to find the appropriate moment for when stand up comedy becomes. You're allowed to sit down on the stage. I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure if I'm ready.

[Jason Finn]

For a. Yeah, I know you guys hauling those water glasses around all the time, man, you must be.

[Chris Ballew]

Well, you know, on late night you were almost reclined all the way. Maybe you can be the first reclining comic.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think the La Z Boy tour with creative lighting and maybe some work from Brian Eno.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Finn]

And wait, with the La Z Boy.

[Chris Ballew]

Tour, you've got more than one on stage. You've got a whole bunch of them and you just, you could do different segments.

[Jason Finn]

Stanhope is doing that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is he doing it right now? Doug Stanhope is like, he's one of my favorite comics. Doug Stanhope. Isn't he amazing? I mean, he is incredible.

[Jason Finn]

And I'm just like, man, how can I would I. I wish I could still smoke like that.

[Craig Ferguson]

He's one of those people, I think Doug, who is like, it's not an act. It's like that's a, that's a, that's a whole thing that he's, I mean, he's kind of a work of art in himself. I think he's one of a seriously underrated standup. I mean like wonderful. I, I'm so glad you brought him up. I mean he is, he's incredible.

[Jason Finn]

I've sort of lost track of what he's doing. Like right now, right now. But I do pop in time to time.

[Craig Ferguson]

I, I, I guess stand up efficiency. I don't know what he's up to at the moment because I don't even with, with people. Even with, you know, let's get him on the line. You know what I should do? I should. He's one of those guys, though. He's so clever that I'm a little intimidated to talk to him. Do you know what I mean? It's like I feel.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

Let's set it up. Let's get this going today. This is a precursor to the next episode.

[Craig Ferguson]

This is the lead into the Doug Stanhope episode.

[Jason Finn]

Yeah.

[Chris Ballew]

All right.

[Craig Ferguson]

So I've got a great idea to promote the 30 years of the album that. Let's get Doug Stanhope to go out on the road and not mention that album at all. That seems to follow the philosophy of what your guys are putting together.

[Chris Ballew]

Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Finn]

This sounds pretty perfect. I don't know. I, I, I, I'll just say it. I'm not gonna wait for you guys. We gotta get Brian Eno involved somehow. And I, I don't know.

[Chris Ballew]

He can do a reboot. Ambient president.

[Craig Ferguson]

We gotta go. But look up that animation online of David Bowie. Oh, and Brian Eno and Tony Visconti making the luau. Very funny.

[Jason Finn]

It, I've written it down.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's very funny.

[Chris Ballew]

Okay. But one other thing I just have to point out is Josh Robert Thompson, comedy genius. What? That episode of your podcast with him was so amazing, I immediately went out and signed up for the Distant Sound of Trains. And I am enjoying everything.

[Craig Ferguson]

He will love hearing that. I mean, he's, he's a, he is. You know, the guy behind Jeff Peterson on the Late Night show is like, all of that is to do with my. When I did Jeff Peterson on late night, when I put that robot in that space, it was a stupid throwaway joke. I wanted to have a skeleton with a robot voice that would mock the convention of a sidekick so that it would always agree with everything I say. And Josh would come in and start doing the voices and he'd fuck with me. And he'd fuck with me so much that what happened is that he completely ruined my joke of my idea that the standup was dead. And he became, to my mind, the best sidekick in late night history. I mean, unbelievable what that guy did.

[Chris Ballew]

What other sidekick fucks with the host? I mean, even, well, Paul Schaefer's just a yes, sir. Then there's Ed McMahon. You are correct, sir. But yeah, he did such a great job.

[Craig Ferguson]

He makes me laugh so hard, that guy. Off balance, I mean.

[Chris Ballew]

Yeah. So anyway, I just had to mention.

[Craig Ferguson]

That because well done for mentioning so we've got Doug Stanhope, Brian Eno, Weird Al, and Josh Robert Thompson. If we can get those guys into a band now you got something.

[Chris Ballew]

Get those guys in a band and have them cover the Presidents and then send them out on tour.

[Craig Ferguson]

Perfect. We can't do better than that. Hooked up you guys. Yeah.

[Jason Finn]

Okay, you up?

[Chris Ballew]

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[Craig Ferguson]

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[Craig Ferguson]

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