#1803 After Dark: Phoebe Needs a Break

Summary

Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes

Episode 1803: After Dark – Phoebe Needs a Break
Host: Scott Benner
Guest: "Phoebe" (pseudonym) – mother of 5, two kids with type 1 diabetes
Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal After Dark episode, Scott Benner welcomes “Phoebe” back to share the profound changes in her life since her earlier appearance (After Dark episode #1322, “Borderline”). The conversation explores Phoebe’s journey escaping a long-term emotionally, verbally, and financially abusive marriage, the impact on her family (including two children with type 1 diabetes), and the struggle to find hope, stability, and eventually, new beginnings. It offers both raw storytelling and practical advice for those navigating abuse, mental health, and diabetes management under extraordinary pressure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family and Medical Context (02:04–03:01)

• Phoebe’s family: Mother of five (two with type 1 diabetes, one with celiac disease).
• Extended family history: Type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto’s present on multiple sides, often with adult diagnoses and confusion between type 1 and type 2.
• Genetic and environmental factors: Recognizes the profound challenge and “blindsiding” nature of autoimmune disorders in her family tree.

2. Recap: The Backstory and Leaving an Abusive Marriage (04:05–12:01)

• Original episode context (#1322): At the edge of leaving 23-year marriage marked by escalating emotional, financial, and verbal abuse, as well as husband’s volatile mental health (including threats of self-harm).
• Phoebe describes the “golden handcuffs” of being a stay-at-home mom – trapped by circumstance and the slow realization of abuse.
• Critical turning point: (10:33) “I looked the pastor in the eye. I said, I want a separation.” — Phoebe, explaining the difficult moment in church counseling when she asserted her need for separation, despite immense religious and familial pressure.

3. Systemic Failures: Spiritual and Institutional (11:21–13:07)

• Ineffective church counseling: Phoebe describes the pastor’s failure to grasp the gravity of abuse, suggesting superficial solutions like “spending more time together” or going on a date.
• Gaslighting & minimization: Even after honest disclosure, spiritual support systems struggle (or refuse) to address emotional abuse, focusing only on the sanctity of marriage.

4. Escalation & Immediate Danger (16:09–25:33)

• Episodes of erratic and threatening behavior: Husband’s aggression toward neighbors, threats of violence, multiple police interventions, and weapon-related threats.
• Isolation and intimidation: Phoebe managed safety plans, removed guns from the home (with help from her father and law enforcement), and navigated digital surveillance (tracking via apps).
• Financial abuse: Husband manipulated bank accounts, withheld money, and instigated financial instability during the separation process.
• Repeated police involvement: Phoebe had to make multiple reports to protect her family and others, acting on the advice of friends in law enforcement, and eventually pushing her husband to move out.

5. Post-Separation Fallout and Ongoing Manipulation (25:33–28:57)

• Ex-husband’s behavior after separation: Rapid entrance into new relationships, erratic contact, seeking emotional support from Phoebe, and inconsistent parenting.
• Parentification: Phoebe notes that she became her ex’s emotional “handler,” likening her communication to “talking to a child” in order to prevent escalation (26:25).
• Impact on children: Her children remain anxious about angering their father, even in simple scenarios (“Should I text dad to see if I can use this? I don’t want to make him angry.” — Phoebe's 18-year-old son, 34:21).

6. Healing and Rebuilding: Turning the Corner (34:54–38:24)

• Physical and emotional exhaustion: Post-separation, Phoebe describes overwhelming fatigue, frequent crying, and slow steps toward independence (starting public work, homeschooling ends).
• Trauma support: Active participation in a support group for partners of people with similar mental health disorders. Connection formed with another survivor leading to a new, careful romantic relationship.
• New beginnings: “Six weeks ago, he asked my dad if he could date me. … We’re not rushing off to get married. We’re just meeting each other’s children now.” — Phoebe, 36:56.

7. The Ongoing Challenge of Abuse Recognition (38:39–44:23)

• Societal misunderstanding: Frequent invalidation when abuse is not physical (“Even today, I’m not talking secular people, they don’t consider abuse until you’re getting hit.” — 39:38).
• Need for education: Churches and broader society are out of their depth with chronic, non-physical abuse and complex mental health issues.
• Resilience and growth: Phoebe attributes much of her ability to cope and recover to finding role models in resilience and daily mantras (“Do better today. Today will be better.” — Phoebe, 53:03).

8. Parenting Through Trauma & Diabetes Management (43:51–54:03)

• Juggling diabetes: Managing diabetes alone, with imperfect processes but focusing on survival rather than perfection.
• Building independence: Teaching her children self-care for diabetes, while respecting their developmental readiness and not pathologizing typical age-related resistance.
• Therapy for kids: All children, except one, actively engage in therapy to process trauma.
• Letting go of control: “When they’re little, you think you can control things for them, but you really can’t… There’s only so much you can make a kid do.” — Phoebe, 55:53.

9. Reflections on Recovery & Advice for Others (62:03–69:19)

• Red flags in hindsight: Phoebe regrets not recognizing manipulation and threats of self-harm as abuse and as tools of control—wishes she had sought help sooner (63:53).
• Key advice: “If you are in that situation, you need to get help. It’s too much to deal with alone.”
• Warning signs discussed: Detailed list read by Scott (66:26–69:31) — emotional, physical, financial, and digital abuse indicators; importance of not handling threats alone.

10. The Pursuit of Calm and Recovery (74:10–77:24)

• Challenge of calm after chaos: Phoebe reflects on creating a peaceful life post-abuse, learning to embrace stillness, and distinguishing between compulsive “busyness” and trauma-driven anxiety.
• Long-term healing: “I do crave just quiet and calm, which I get very little of. But I do have a hard — I don’t sit still.” — Phoebe, 74:48.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I looked the pastor in the eye. I said, I want a separation.” — Phoebe on her pivotal moment (10:33)
• “Pastors are wonderful, but most cannot counsel through, especially an abusive marriage. … His solution was ‘can you spend more time with your husband?’” — Phoebe on religious institutions’ shortcomings (10:49)
• “You must have been so thrilled he was gone.” “Yes, I was.” — Scott and Phoebe, on post-separation relief (27:32–27:36)
• “You have to placate. You’re a handler…You’re managing the mental illness and the emotion and all of the crazy narcissistic things that he’s thinking.” — Scott summarizing Phoebe’s role (26:39)
• “Our job as a parent is to work ourselves out of a job.” — Phoebe on launching her kids into adulthood (52:59)
• “You lay a foundation and you model good behavior and you hope they pick it up…That’s the best you can do.” — Scott’s reflections on parenting through adversity (58:43–58:56)
• On abuse:
  • Scott reads list of warning signs (67:00–69:59) — emotional manipulation, financial control, digital surveillance, and more.
  • “If you are in that situation, you need to get help. It’s too much to deal with alone.” — Phoebe (64:17)
• On healing and rest:
  “I do like calm. … If the kids are all gone, I have the house quiet. … I do crave just quiet and calm, which I get very little of.” — Phoebe (74:48)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|:--------------:| | Family/Medical Background | 02:04–03:01 | | Deciding to Leave — Pastor/Counseling | 10:33–12:01 | | Escalation: Police, Financial Abuse | 16:09–25:33 | | Post-Separation: Emotional Fallout | 25:33–34:40 | | Impact on Children | 33:11–34:40 | | First Signs of Recovery | 34:54–38:24 | | Parenting Kids with Diabetes | 43:51–54:03 | | Resilience/Letting Go | 53:06–58:56 | | Hindsight & Advice for Others | 62:03–64:23 | | Warning Signs of Abuse (Scott reads list) | 66:26–69:31 | | Embracing Calm, Ongoing Healing | 74:10–77:24 |

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is unsparing, compassionate, and pragmatic. Scott weaves empathy and practical humor (“You should go have some old people sex and plant a garden...”) into heavier discussions, underscoring both the horror and the hopes of rebuilding after trauma. Phoebe’s courage in sharing is repeatedly acknowledged—her honesty, perseverance, and drive to help others echo throughout, offering solace and wisdom to anyone struggling under similar burdens.

If you or someone you know is affected by intimate partner abuse, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-SAFE (800-799-7233) or text START to 88788.

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For more on Phoebe’s original journey, listen to After Dark episode #1322 ("Borderline").
For diabetes support, community, and resources, visit juiceboxpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Host]

Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.

[Phoebe]

Hello, my name is Phoebe. I am the mother of two type 1 children, ages 10 and 13.

[Host]

If you're living with type 1 diabetes, the after Dark collection from the Juice Box Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about, from drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction and so much more. Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and click on After Dark. There you'll see a full list of all of the After Dark episodes. If you're looking for community around type 1 diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast. Private Facebook Group Juice box podcast type 1 diabetes but everybody is welcome. Type 1 type 2 gestational loved ones it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juice Box podcast type 1 diabetes on Facebook. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. Today's podcast episode is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed 780G system and their new sensor options, which include the Instinct sensor made by Abbott. Would you like to unleash the full potential of the MiniMed 780G system? You can do that at my link medtronicdiabetes.com Juicebox Today's episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next Gen Blood Glucose Meter. Learn more and get started today@contour next.com

[Phoebe]

Juicebox hello, my name is Phoebe. I am the mother of two type one children ages 10 and 13 and I have three other children that are all teenagers. Correction, the oldest is an adult now and and she has celiac.

[Host]

Oldest has celiac, two younger. The two youngest have type one. Do they all have the same dad?

[Phoebe]

Yes, I have five children. They all have the same dad. The dad has his mom's sister was diagnosed with type 1 as an adult. She was in her 30s or 40s and his grandfather was also diagnosed with type 1 as an adult. 30s or 40s I think it was after one hepatitis infection and another it was a flu I believe. Okay, now we did not know they had type one. His own mother didn't even know that they had type one. She just thought it was type two diabetes.

[Host]

About that. So for people listening, I think you're going to find Phoebe very interesting and you didn't see me just make air quotes, because her name's not actually Phoebe. That's what we're calling her. But why did we choose Phoebe? That's the same name she used in episode 1322. It's an after Dark called Borderline. My remembrance of that episode is strong, which is a little uncommon for me because I make so many of them. But I remember you battling through your husband's mental health issues, working out how to, you know, get your family to a safe place. And I, I, it was really something. So if you're listening to this now and thinking, I'd like to have an understanding of that, you know, check out 1322 as well. From there, Phoebe and I will start talking. What gets you back on the show? Like what after? Because that was a. I mean, seriously, a very honest conversation. Could not have been easy to have. I didn't find it easy to be a part of, and it wasn't my life. So what makes you want to come back and do it again?

[Phoebe]

I don't know. Just hearing you say that makes me a little eerie.

[Host]

Well, did it. It made you sad?

[Phoebe]

Yeah. We have come a long way. And Also on the type 1 side, I did want to say I have a cousin with type 1 diabetes, and I have also two cousins with Hashimoto's, so. And none of them, they're all from different families of my dad's side. We're kind of rather blindsided by that. But I don't remember when that was. Well, I do remember when that was recorded. I think we recorded that episode in maybe May 24th. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Yes. I was just on the, at that time, at the edge of deciding to leave my marriage of 23 years. I had been. We got married in 2001. We moved all over the country for his career checkerboard across the United States. I'd stayed home because it was. I always wanted to be a stay at home mom. And it was hard to do. We were moving all so often when the kids were younger.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

So I got my dream of staying home with the kids, but it's a little bit of a golden handcuff because when it took me a long time to realize that I was in a emotionally, verbally, financially abusive marriage, I thought, and I was, I think it was 2022 when I finally, it finally clicked what was going on. So when we recorded that podcast episode, I was trying to decide to leave him. And I, I think the next day we talked about it. I am a Christian, so I went. He had asked me to talk with our Pastor together about saving our marriage. And I think it was the next day after we recorded the podcast and I had to look. Look the pastor in the eye, not my. I don't think I looked at my husband. I had. I told him several times I wanted a separation. So it was a very scary time because very. Our lives are very volatile. Not physically abusive, but there are a lot of threats of self harm that he had, a lot of anger. It's pretty scary time. I was very afraid at that time.

[Host]

Can I ask you, does it seem scarier remembering what it was like to live through it, or does it seem scarier in hindsight now that you're separated from it and have some distance? Does that make sense?

[Phoebe]

Yeah, it kind of depends on the day. It was very scary at the time because I was always just jumping out of my skin. I go, even I'd go to the gym and I'd hear the door close and I is at him because I found out he was tracking me, what I was doing. I had a whole safety plan in place. I start looking for work to earn some money in my own bank account. And he knew everything that I was doing, finding emails I didn't think he would find. And so I was just very anxious. Real.

[Host]

Yeah, you're making me anxious. And we're just remembering it and you're not going through it anymore.

[Phoebe]

No. And it. It's kind of funny because after we separate, we had that talk and he left and I had no idea what was going to happen. And we had some pretty bad things go down after that involving the police. I had to call the police several, several times. And then he even was. My dad. And his brother had come to visit because my. I think it was just the two. No, it was all three of our oldest kids. They were going off to summer camp that week or so. And one of my cousins, I have a cousin that was murdered a couple years ago by like 10 years ago by her husband. So my one cousin I had spoken with on the phone, I called her because her brother had killed himself. It's horrible.

[Host]

Oh my God.

[Phoebe]

It's just a. It was a train wreck. He had bipolar disorder and had killed himself. So I called her just to check up with her. And then for some reason I told her about what I had going on. And, you know, we hung up the phone. And then she called me back. She's like, I'm calling your dad. Your dad needs to know. Because my family didn't know. She said, I'm so worried that something's Going to happen.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, can we. Can we pick this up? Let's do this.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. I'm all over the place.

[Host]

You're fine. Phoebe, listen, everything's fine. If anyone deserves to be all over the place, it's you. So. But let me say. Let me say this right. We're recording. I think you're my last. Am I. Am I a lunatic? Am I recording on New Year's Eve? Anyway, you're one or two of the last. You're one of my last couple of interviews of 20. 25. Right. And you and I did this originally, what, spring of 24.

[Phoebe]

So.

[Host]

So it's been spring of 24 to 25. I mean, it's coming up on two years, you know, in a couple of months since you and I recorded this, I still, like, remember your situation, which, again, I'm going to tell you, is kind of uncommon because I record so much content that, like, sometimes people say to me, like, oh, you remember this happened? I'm like, I. I don't know what you're talking about. And then I go back and I listen, I go, oh, I remember that. That was awesome. But yours really sticks with me. And even just this little recap here for the first few minutes of your conversation reminds me of. Of why it. It stuck with me so long. But I want to make sure I understand the timeline you and I record. The next day, you're in the church with your husband seeking counseling that he wants you to seek. You're not really down with that. And then you, you know, say, I want to get separated. I kind of want to move forward from there because you said there were things that happened, like, so for people who think, like, oh, that's. That's the end of the story. He left and everything was fine. Like, let's go back to there for a minute. First of all, I can't imagine how difficult it was to sit in a room that is clearly designed for you to sit there and listen and then go back and be. Be a good girl and. And be a wife and let this guy do whatever he wants to do to you. And so you got to fight through his desire for you to do that. I'm assuming the pressure that the priest is sitting there. Right. Like, and you don't want to let God down and, and your. Your marriage and all that stuff.

[Phoebe]

Well, the children is. Because we have all these children.

[Host]

Yeah. So all that pressure is there in the room with you, but you still, like, persevered and said, no, it's all good. I'd like you to leave, right?

[Phoebe]

Yes, I said, I. I looked the pastor in the eye. I said, I. I want a separation. And I. I do believe that my husband, he was the one who called the meeting. I believe that he did it to get me to back down.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

By talking to the pastor. And that was his. And, yeah, the pastor. Pastors are wonderful, but most cannot counsel through, especially an abusive marriage. So he. He's against divorce. He said, phoebe, can you spend more time with your husband is what the solution was going to be? And I said, I want a separation. So he stormed off. I went home, which is terrifying because I have no idea what's going to happen. And I mean, can I cut you

[Host]

off for a half a second? I feel bad doing this. You laid out your entire situation to that pastor, and he said, hey, I have an idea. Why don't you hang out with the guy a little more?

[Phoebe]

Yes. Thinking that we needed more time alone, some dates, that kind of thing. We got all these kids.

[Host]

You were honest with him about all the stuff that you explained to me in the episode and that. And he's like, you guys probably just need to go to a movie.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. Yes. And that. I mean, I. I know everyone has varying degrees, but I had gone on my own to talk to the pastor several times, and when I went on my own, he was more sympathetic. At one point, he said, yes, you may need to separate. But then coming in together pressured him too.

[Host]

You think?

[Phoebe]

Yes, because I think by. By my husband saying, I just want my wife, that. That's what he was. Said, I just want my wife. I think that made him think, oh, he really wants to work on this.

[Host]

So was there any time during that meeting that your husband admitted to doing any of the things that you said, or did he just go, I don't do that? When you brought it up, he wasn't

[Phoebe]

even asked on any of that.

[Host]

But, I mean, you said it in front. It would be like if. It would be like if three people were in a room. And I said, hey, do you see that person over there? They heat up a metal stick every night and stick it on my ass and burn me. And then I said to the third person, can you please help me? And then the guy said, what'd he say? Is that true? Does he. Does he redirect to your husband, or does your husband just sit there and go, and then we move on and you should go on to a movie? Like, I'm trying to understand the counseling part of this.

[Phoebe]

Yes, I. And I don't remember all the details. I. I don't think we went into all of the things that would happen. It was what was going on in our home. I had told the pastor that. And my. And the pastor. He knew.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

That he went. My husband was threatening to kill himself. He. He did. Because he. He did go in on his own to talk to him. And he did admit to that. Which on the surface, it's the. It's bad.

[Host]

I gotta tell you, Phoebe, like, if I'm remembering your problem correctly, and from this, I. The only thing that was going to fix that problem was a long walk off a short pier, not catching Marley and me. It just. I. I don't know. It seems crazy to me. Okay, so you stuck up for yourself and you're like, you know, I'm getting the hell out of here. Like, everybody go. What happens then? He comes home, packs a bag, says tata or no. No. What. What goes on? The Contour Next Gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast. And it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link contornext.com juicebox you're going to find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid, Kroger and Meijer. You could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips and meter than you would pay through my link for the Contour Next Gen and Contour Next test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link makes may be cheaper out of your pocket than you're paying right now, even with your insurance. And I don't know what meter you have right now. I can't say that. But what I can say for sure is that the Contour Next Gen meter is accurate, it is reliable, and it is the meter that we've been using for years. Contournext.com juicebox and if you already have a contour meter and you're buying test strips, doing so through the Juicebox podcast link or will help to support the show. Unlike other systems that will wait until your blood sugar is 180 before delivering corrections, the MiniMed 780G system is the only system with meal detection technology that automatically detects rising sugar levels and delivers more insulin as needed to help keep your sugar levels in range even if you're not a perfect carb counter. Today's episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their MiniMed 780G system which gives you real choices because the MiniMed 780G system works with the Instinct sensor made by Abbott as well as the Simplera Sync and Guardian 4 sensors, giving you options. The Instinct sensor is the longest wear Sensor yet, lasting 15 days and designed exclusively for the MiniMed 780G. And don't forget Medtronic Diabetes makes technology accessible for you with comprehensive insurance support programs to help you with your out of pocket costs. We're switching from other pump and CGM systems. Learn more and get started today with my link medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox no, I don't

[Phoebe]

remember all the dates, but I do know he was, he was around and he had all kinds of erratic behavior. One thing, and this was it was all in pretty quick succession was one day I walk my dog. There's an elderly man in the neighborhood that our dogs have play dates with. We go take the dogs, we play in the backyard together. So the gentleman used to come to our house and play in the front yard with the kids. But he didn't like that. My husband didn't like that. And the guy, my friend, he's picked up on it. So I didn't want to give up my dog walks. Dogs need to play two golden retrievers. So one day he just came in the house while I was cooking in front of my kids yelling that he is going to go pound on the guy's door and give him a piece of his mind like man to man. And this man is, you know, older gentleman, like retirement age. And my husband is, was bigger than him. And I told him, I said I am calling the police if you go down there. We, you know, we had a verbal argument and he left. And that night I called, I have a law enforcement friend and I told him what's going on. He's like, he said, I'm not your knight in shining armor. He I love. We, we are good friends. Him, him and his wife were good friends. But his point was I cannot rescue you. You need to call the police. You need to file a report for all this because he just threatened to attack an elderly man and you know it if he does it. And you and I are complicit in knowing about this behavior, this thought process he has. So I did, I filed a report that night. He forced me to. He said, you have 20 minutes to do it. If you don't call, I'm going to do it for you. I got the lieutenant talk from him. So that was one thing that happened. My kids got Ready to go to camp. And they leave very early in the morning. And my husband said he was going to drop them off at camp because that's the last time he's going to see them. He's going to kill himself while they're at camp. So. But he didn't. He doesn't get up early. I drop off the kids at camp and then my dad and my uncle come into town to stay with me because they were afraid for me being home alone with just our two younger children.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

And that's kind of. That's when it really blew up. He and I had always known in my head I was completely done if he took our money. So he. He changed the withdrawal on our accounts. So there was no money to pay the bills. No. The mortgage that just started bouncing. It was all an automatic payment. He just switched it. And I didn't have any income yet. I think I had interviewed at the school by that time to be. I'm a food nutrition. I'm a cafeteria lady now. But I hadn't started working yet. I was going to start in July. So. Never would pick an argument in front of our family. But he did with my dad about the money in the bank accounts. He started arguing with me. My dad was in the kitchen and my dad would try to talk to him. And he just blew off my dad bad and took off. So at this point, my dad was only going to be there for a week. And he had known about the threatening of taking his life. And I think in the first episode I told you he had loaded like a year previous to this when it all started and I realized it was a mental health issue. He had loaded a gun in front of me in the night and said he was going to kill himself. So my dad says, I'm not leaving until you have all the guns out of your house. So my dad and I packed up the guns and we brought him to my friend's house that I talked to on the phone. He's law enforcement.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Has a gun safe. So we drove over there and I didn't know he was tracking me. He had taken off one of the tracking the family. I think it would be in life360 he had gotten out of there. But we were parked in my friend's driveway getting ready to leave. And I get a text message with a map circling where I was. He's like, whose house are you at and what are you doing there? Which really freaked me out because he's law enforcement, former SWAT team and the whole bit. And My friend had told me if anyone comes to my door threatening my

[Host]

family, it's gonna be a different situation than if the old man gets that knock. Right?

[Phoebe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yes.

[Phoebe]

He's not gonna mess around. So he's like, you. You have to do something about this. He cannot. You know, because they were started. They're watching for his vehicle out there, you know, at this point, because they were kind of involved in it.

[Host]

Yeah. This guy's not looking to put your husband down on the. In the front yard. Right. So he doesn't want that problem.

[Phoebe]

No, but he. He would if he.

[Host]

Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. Because that you don't know what's going to happen. And he's still living with us. It's just crazy. And then we go pick up the kids at camp. I do anyway, that in the evening, they get back at night. It's a long drive. And my dad and my uncle were still there. My uncle, they drove a camper van. They're camped out in our driveway in the van. And he was there, out with my two younger girls, the two ones with diabetes. And he came in. He knew they were there. And my neighbors. I had a good friend across the street. I have a. I had a whole bunch of people watching out for me. My neighbor across the street, she texted me because she could hear. She must have saw him come up and he just laid on the horn, blasting the horn. About the money thing. I don't know if you want me to tell you all this.

[Host]

No. Are you kidding me? Phoebe, this is fascinating, because this moment that you're talking about, how far removed from the conversation with the pastor? Is this.

[Phoebe]

How much time.

[Host]

Yeah. Between the pastor conversation and this blowing the horn?

[Phoebe]

Probably about 10 days.

[Host]

Okay, this is my point. My point is, is that you go through more in a week and a half than most people would be able to deal with in their entire life, and you're talking about stories of, like, standing in the kitchen and screaming and yelling. Like, you fight. Like, the kids are the kids. Like, hey, this is just Tuesday here. Or. Yeah, because this is how everything always is. So you don't need to, like, walk me through the entire thing. How long was it from the pastor's conversation, by the way? I just. I love that he's like, you should just date a little more. I mean, is anyone listening to this? But from there, till your husband moving out, Your ex moving out. Is he your ex now?

[Phoebe]

Yes, he is.

[Host]

Till your ex moving out, finally. How long was that time till he Got out of the house.

[Phoebe]

It was actually that this next morning that he looked for an apartment. Because I did end up calling the police.

[Host]

Okay.

[Phoebe]

Because there's another threat made in front of all of our children that just came home from camp.

[Host]

Does he have a mental health diagnosis or just. Or is it just your assumption?

[Phoebe]

He does. He. He does not psychiatric. Because he. And into this buildup. I did have him see a psychiatrist, but that was all we could get him in for, was for medication. He did agree in all this time for the first time with that handgun up until now. I told him I wanted him to get counseling. And he saw a couple therapists, but none of it ever sticked. I been told borderline personality disorder, which he agreed with at the time. He said that makes sense. And most likely narcissistic personality disorder, which they commonly will go together.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

When. When we got married, I knew nothing about mental health.

[Host]

And now you know too much about it.

[Phoebe]

Yes, I know way more than I would ever want to know. But he never wanted to see therapy. I knew when we got married, I was very naive. We don't need a therapist. I won't ever see a therapist. Which sounded fine to me.

[Host]

But when he's gone and it's clear he's moved out, do you. Is there any reduction in your stress or anxiety, or does it just shift to a different problem?

[Phoebe]

Well, he moved out. He got in an apartment that next day after the night with the police coming again. And he was argument. I was very shocked. He was arguing with the police. They did not take him. They. They just said sleep in different rooms is what they told us.

[Host]

Have you guys tried Marley and me?

[Phoebe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Where do you live? Actually, you can't tell me that, but go ahead. I apologize.

[Phoebe]

No. Yeah. So he. Yeah, he got the apartment. It took a week for him to leave. He would not leave until. And we had more issues. I didn't call the police again. But he found another firearm that I had not found. And I had to try. I tried getting it away from him. Late one night. The last night he was home, my oldest daughter and I. I slept on the floor in her bedroom with him, like, stomping around, throwing stuff around, pounding on the door, mass texting me. And I think it was that next day was the last day. And that was the scariest time, I will tell you. From the time he agreed to get that apartment until he was gone.

[Host]

Right.

[Phoebe]

It was pretty horrible. But he immediately got on dating apps and started dating. And he had one girlfriend. He ended up buying a House immediately she moved in with him and that was very short lived. He's the one that had a problem with her.

[Host]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. He shacked up with somebody and he kicked her out?

[Phoebe]

Yes. He knew within two weeks he bought this house and she moved in. And he knew within two weeks. And he was coming to me because I have a friend. I, I, that's another whole story. But it's heard me talking to him. He's like, you treat him like a child. You sound like you're talking to a child. Because I, you know, I run over the aftershocks headsets a lot. And there's one headset where, you know, people can hear my conversation.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

So he's heard this and he's like, it sounds like you're talking to a child.

[Host]

Well it's, I'm assuming it sounds like you're talking to a dog. You're trying to get not to attack you.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Or a child because you have to placate kind of. You're a handler.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Types.

[Host]

Yeah. You're not, you're managing the mental illness and the emotion and all of the crazy narcissistic things that he's thinking and, and all the, the demands that he's made and all the times he's told you he's going to take his own life. Like Right. Like that's all in your head every time you're speaking to him.

[Phoebe]

Yes, it is. And she. Yeah. He knew right away and he would come and talk to me like to find like advice. I, I couldn't believe it. But you are.

[Host]

Wait a minute. How long after he moves out is he coming to you? Like you're the AI bot in, in Tinder. What, what, what way does Tinder not have an AI bot? Oh, I'm having an idea. Hold on a second. Like, right. Because he's coming to you with his dating issues. How long after he moved out is he doing that?

[Phoebe]

Within about three months out of here. Are you? Yes.

[Host]

You must have been so thrilled he was gone. No.

[Phoebe]

Yes, I was.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

But he, he was so focused on

[Host]

finding a new woman to abuse.

[Phoebe]

Yes. And he, that that was all he. And he didn't even think it was weird. And from, for me I've kind of figured out it's like I, but was in a way a parent. Like a mother, you know, because you come talk to me about your problems. What should I do? How do I deal with this? And they broken off and was pretty. It was not as bad. I wasn't so worried for our Safety. But he would. They call it a split. He'd mass text me and phone call. Just kind of erratic behavior until he got another girlfriend. That was in June. They start. They met in June online. They're all online. And she. We went over there on Father's Day. I brought the kids over here because they don't real. They're not real comfortable going there.

[Host]

No. Really?

[Phoebe]

Yeah. They spend very little time, like a couple hours every few weeks. Like he. He's gone six, eight weeks without seeing them at all. Because he was on this dating binge trying to find a new one. So he met her in June. I brought my son over to cut his grass. He'd pay him for the kid to cut grass. And in August he told me that they're going to get married. They're getting married anytime now. In January, the new one.

[Host]

God bless. I. Listen, I gotta tell you something. I've devoted the last 30 some years to the woman that's across the hall from me right now. And last night, with a head cold, I put together furniture. And I have less luck getting kindness out of her than your husband does out of getting out of people. What is happening?

[Phoebe]

Yeah, he. It's a kind of a. And he's not. I crack up because I have a friend. We went out to dinner. Her brother was there. He's from the north. He has a strong accent and what he knew about our divorce, he's like, I don't understand. He's no Casanova.

[Host]

Even. Like, I'm sure I was an idiot in the first episode and asked you if he was super handsome or had a big penis or something like that. But, like, there's nothing going on like that, right?

[Phoebe]

No, he was just an average guy and he. When I met him, he just seemed honest, like he wasn't.

[Host]

Well, I mean, listen, you're seeing it now in real time. Whatever it is he does works because it worked on two ladies in succession.

[Phoebe]

Yes, he has kind of. I mean, he seems really calm and laid back. And people will say that he's just very quiet. He's good at fixing things. And as soon as he left, he started working out. And he is. He looks in good shape.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, I'm assuming he seems calm till he's loading a revolver in front of you and talking about killing himself. Then I imagine it doesn't seem so calm anymore. But by then you're invested. You got these kids, you got a life like, you know. Yeah, right. Like, he pulls that on day 15, you're out of there. Yes.

[Phoebe]

And I do believe that is the rush to get, for them to get married. And already she lived in a different state, a few hours away, but she moved in and now she's not working, she's quit her job because he has this fancy house.

[Host]

Yeah. And that's part of the scam too is to get her like in a situation where she's got no way to nowhere to go or no money to do it with.

[Phoebe]

Yes. They just went on a three week tour across the United States. The kids can see, she tags him all the time on her Facebook so he, they see everything that they've been up to. Very elab, very expensive vacation that I know that he could not afford.

[Host]

It's all part of the play to get her in and then he'll marry her up, get her locked down and then start screaming at her that he's gonna kill himself and that she's, you know, then she's Talking to a 75 year old man in a dog park and I'm gonna have to go beat his ass. Like that kind of stuff will start immediately. So that you think the rush to get married is that he's having trouble holding all that in?

[Phoebe]

I think so. I think he can only do it for so long. And from when I read the older people get, it is harder to hold the crazy down. Which makes sense. Yes. Because you don't care as you older you get more relaxed about things and I think it's harder to, to hide it.

[Host]

And can I say real quickly, like I wouldn't make light of mental health and I don't have any light hearted feelings about it, but that's big picture. When I look at the world, I would like people like your ex husband to get as much help as possible and that he's not out there affecting other people or you know, having a worse time in life than he could be. It's when you talk about it on this personal level, like when I'm just thinking about you and your children. There have been times in this conversation that we've had just today where I thought, oh man, it would have been great if he would have killed himself. Like at least you could have got the hell out of that. But like no it wouldn't have because then that would have hit you and you would have, you know, there would have been some poor person with mental health whose life would have been lost and on top of all that you would have felt guilty about it for the rest of your life probably for not helping him. God knows I don't know how that would happen to you, but I'm pretty sure it would have. There's no easy way out of this. Like, this is a rock in a hard place times 30. I'm not kidding you, Phoebe. If you just took the last 30 minutes of this conversation and took it to a screenwriter and said turn this into a 90 minute horror movie, it would be an action thriller. Like it really would. It's, it's insane. And you don't see it that way, as I'm sure you do now. Better than before. But like, you're so steeped in it, you don't know. Like, you don't know you're in a Scream movie. I'm waiting for you to like go up to this other woman and just yell, run. Like, like.

[Phoebe]

But, but you know how it is. Because if, if I chose to say anything, she would just think I'm some kind of jealous woman trying to understand.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Back and not believe me. And it is. Sounds horrible. But he is much better with someone because I've not. Those splits that I talked to, I've not had one. The last one that I had to deal with was on Easter Sunday. And that was a horrific time. Very traumatic for my children. And that was just over the phone because they heard him on the phone yelling. My youngest, she has not forgotten these things. She remembers, I think she was 7 when some of this went on. She's, you know, she knew that her dad wanted to kill himself and she's told people this. My 18 year old son, even just now, he'll. Because they do see him off and on. They like working on trucks. My two boys and their dad knows how to fix trucks. And he's, he's like, should I text dad to see if I can use this? I don't want to make. I don't want him to get angry. He's 18. And then, you know, we're. I'm visiting my parents right now. I'm at their house and does grandpa have, he's learning welding in school. Does grandpa have a welder? Can I ask grandpa if I can use his welder? I don't want him to get angry. That's coming for an 18 year old boy.

[Host]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Phoebe]

And the youngest, like they knew. She had told the youngest that they were getting married. The dad has never had a conversation with them about getting married. So she'll ask me things and I'll say, well, you need to ask your dad because I don't know. I don't want to make him Angry, you know, they will see him, they'll eat dinner with him.

[Host]

You're in a room with a dog on a chain, everything. You think if I move this thing's gonna bite me?

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

Right. It's just. Yeah, it's terrible. There's nothing good about it. Let's fast forward so we all don't just feel like jumping off a bridge. Okay. So.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, because it does get better.

[Host]

It gets better. Get to the part where you, when's the first day in this process where you thought, oh wow, things are turning around. How long does that take to happen? And then what happens next?

[Phoebe]

Well, it does take a while because after he left, I. I was tired, I slept a lot.

[Host]

I bet you are. Jesus Christ.

[Phoebe]

Because you're not sleeping a lot. It's very hard to get good sleep. So I started a job. My kids were homeschooled. As a homeschool mom, I put my kids in public school. I go to work and for a while I would cry every day driving to work just. I don't even know why I was crying. I just cried the whole way to. To work. And then, you know, I'd come home, I'd take a nap, we'd eat something. I'd nap until it's time to get the kids to bed and then I'd go to sleep. But I was, and this is kind of my current situation, I, I mean I still, I'm doing things around the house that. But it was just. You're so tired. But I was in a support group for long term partners of people dealing with this kind of thing. As in this group is men and women all over the world actually Australia, there's a lot in Australia, Canada in this group. So last fall we got divorced in December he moved out. I think in July 1st was when he moved out. So there's a gentleman from the group that messaged me just because he's a Christian fellow. He was asking me something and he has been separated. So the podcast and I don't know when it aired or I think it

[Host]

went up in October of 24.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, we had started chatting that fall and I put the podcast in my group. I have not ever. I won't ever put it on my social media or broadly. Sure, I'm very selective who I let hear this whole thing, but he heard it and he. My I or this gentleman, he heard this. He's a writer and he, his wife has borderline and they had a lot of issues. He is in my parents house right now is what I'll tell you what.

[Host]

Are we dating? Are we dating?

[Phoebe]

Yes. He. And like six weeks ago, he asked my dad. He called my dad to see if he could date me. I'm 51. He's 49. He lives in another state. He listened to my podcast, and we were just like, random, not, not important questions. But when he listened to the podcast, he said, I wonder if I could be in her life after hearing my story on the podcast. Oh.

[Host]

So, hey, if you ever are happy, I think. I think it's going to be because of me. I love this. What a great story this is for me.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

I'm just teasing.

[Phoebe]

Stop. Well, you know, and that's why I'm here again.

[Host]

Oh, you're here to say thank you. Go ahead. Please. Let me be quiet.

[Phoebe]

But he is actually. It's a slow process because he. I. I think he's a year ahead of me on getting out of his marriage. But it takes a long time to get over all this. We're not rushing off to get married. We're not going to get married next week or anything. And he's just meeting my children now. This, we. This is a neutral place for him to meet my children. We visited each other a couple times in the last summer.

[Host]

Congratulations.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, he. He. Well, he's writing a fictionalized story of this because I had never heard of borderline personality disorder. And especially. And I'm a Christian, I will keep going to church. But that is one area where churches are really. They really struggle is with the mental health.

[Host]

Yeah. So, I mean, I figured that out when he was like, have you guys thought of splitting a hot dog together? Thanks, Pastor Bill.

[Phoebe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Did I tell you the story when I took a. But I took a pillowcase full of firearms to my friend's house to lock them up and still didn't find them all. What do you think? I should head out to the A and W. Do a drive up, you idiot.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, I know. It's very. It's very sad. I mean, it's just out of their realm. They're not. That's not their area.

[Host]

I don't care. I don't. I think I could show this to somebody from Mars and they'd have better advice for you than that. Ridiculous. By the way. Full. I would like it if they use the. When you're. When your new friends writing. He can say Juice Box podcast said it. I'm happy with that.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Well, we had already talked about that, so thank you.

[Host]

Juice box. Capitalized box is lowercase B. One word.

[Phoebe]

Yes, well, we You. We will have that in there. I mean, I, I am. He's doing all the work, but we're. It's a story together of two recovering people because it is a long process.

[Host]

Oh, I don't imagine you're ever going to be recovered from this. I just think there'll be versions of it where you feel better as you get older.

[Phoebe]

Yes, it is. Yeah, it's a ugly goddamn right even. I've had people say, ask me, well, was he hitting you? And if you, if you say no, even today, and I'm not. I'm talking secular people, they will, they don't consider abuse until you're getting hit.

[Host]

Yeah. Oh, pish posh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, just waving a gun around. Right? That's okay.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, yeah. And even with that, there are. I. It is shocking. It.

[Host]

Well, then let me, Let me be kinder to the pastor. Apparently there's a lot of people who don't understand anything. Not just him. I, I mean, honestly, like, any bit, like, seriously, if I took your conversation from now and the other one and just chopped it up into three minute bits, randomly chopped it up into three minute bits, I bet you I'd hear. I bet you I'd hear 20 things that you'd say that would make me think, oh, you should get away from that person. I can't possibly have more compassion for you because, like, to hear you, you're such a lovely person. And I do remember that, you know, you got together when you were young, you were locked in, married for life, like that kind of, you know, kind of Christian value thing. And, you know, you put up with a lot thinking this was just the way it is, you know, it's you, you don't. No one deserves this. And even the way you're talking about it now is a credit to the kind of person that you are. I sincerely hope that that gets to all your children, you know, slowly. But I don't think there's any doubt like there's, I mean, that. Is dad going to be mad? Well, my grandfather, who's never been angry at me once in my life, will he be mad if I ask him to borrow something? Like, that's, that's therapy right there. Somebody needs to go to talk to somebody. You know what I mean?

[Phoebe]

Yes. And they have, the boys have a good, very good therapist. The kids, all but one. She won't do it, but they're all in therapy. And a new. This gentleman. And I was convinced I'm not ever gonna date anyone. We were friends we're just chatting, chatting, chatting, chatting, and then talking and then video calls. But, and I will say it is not, I know it's not the same situation because a lot of people, and that is the concern. Like my therapist, you don't want to jump into anything because you're very prone to getting into the same thing. You go from one. If you don't do, do the work,

[Host]

your radar detector on this might not be great.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, that was the concern. My, the therapist I see knows borderline personality very well. That's why I chose her. And he, the person I'm with now, he's done therapy with me and her together virtually, and he is complete opposite. He is therapy, relationships. How are you feeling it just talking

[Host]

about your gentleman caller? That guy?

[Phoebe]

Yes, yes. He. Everything is different.

[Host]

It's like, you should definitely have somebody vet him for you. That's a good idea.

[Phoebe]

I have, I have had multiple people vet him.

[Host]

Also, may I say I find this to be even more important because this story where I helped you get back into the world, if that guy ends up putting you in a trunk and driving you to Poughkeepsie, that's gonna feel like my fault. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, let's, let's really vet him really well. Make sure he's a rock solid guy. Okay.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, yeah, he, he, he is. I didn't even know people like that existed, honestly, because I should have known. I mean, looking back, hindsight is 20 20, isn't it? But you should be able to talk to someone about everything and how you feel. And one thing I realized is I don't even know how I'm feeling a lot of times. And I've had to learn how to do that because it didn't matter how I was feeling before. You have to just keep doing. And I've got two kids with type one pups, pumps, and Dexcom. So all of this is going on, and I'm still managing their diabetes through all of this. And now I'm doing it all alone as a single working parent with the two kids and managing my own health and then mental health, you know, juggling therapy appointments and kids are learning how to drive and first jobs all at all, at the same time.

[Host]

Sure, sure.

[Phoebe]

So it is.

[Host]

Well, listen, first of all, the crying on the way to work, I'd keep doing that. That's a good emotional release. I, I, I'd make that part of my day if I was you. I wonder, too. I, and I know not enough about this to say this out loud. But it's a podcast, so here we go. I wonder if you guys have, like, a version of Stockholm syndrome. Like, do you think that you. That you. You know, basically, he was your captor and. And you feel bad for him at this point? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, does that happen after time where, like, even though all these crazy things are happening, you're like, ah, the poor guy, he's not well.

[Phoebe]

Actually, I think there is some of it, because in the guy I'm with now, he has been able to turn off more of his emotion towards his person. There is a still a sense of help. They have two adult children together, so there is some help there. He doesn't feel as bad as I do, and I don't really know about feeling bad. I can't even express it.

[Host]

I meant your kids and you with your ex. Like.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah. That feeling of, like, you're protective of him, but what were you trying to say about the new guy? I'm sorry.

[Phoebe]

You get this ingrained. It's like they're naturally a caretaker. I'm naturally a caretaker. Yeah, he's naturally a caretaker. He's able to turn it off more than I am. And I don't know if it's because he's a male or more analytical.

[Host]

I have to tell you, my wife would have punched your husband in the face and left. I'm gonna guess 25 years ago. The second time that he said something that sideways, she would have been like, what's going on here? And then that would have been the end of it. I can't even get, like. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's tough and, like. And you're. You're so nice. You're so nice that you let bad things happen to you. Have you ever looked back on that? Like, I know you got married really young, right? Were you 18?

[Phoebe]

No, not that young. I. I didn't have a lot of dating experience, just some casual dating. So he was the first real person.

[Host]

My question is, is, were you just raised to be very accommodating to people, or is that your personality, you think?

[Phoebe]

Yes, and we see it. I'm here now. My. My mother. My mom has been sick. Right before we came, she was diagnosed with leukemia that they're not going to treat because of her, her age, and our family. My dad is the sweetest, most wonderful man. Everyone just loves my dad. So I'm here. You know, all my brothers came over. We had a big dinner. My mom says you're in charge of all of it, because I can't do it. And I'm trying to keep my dad from doing too much work. And my friend, he notices too. He's like, no one is even doing the dishes. You're doing all the dishes. You're doing everything all by yourself. And that's how I, I grew up. So, yeah, I love my family, but now that I'm older and more mature, I can see how it all started.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's right. You've been on a journey. Yeah, it's not half over. I mean, you've already lived three lives, to be perfectly honest with you. Wow.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. There's something, there's a lot of self awareness. You have to really learn yourself and pay it.

[Host]

How do you keep up with the diabetes stuff? Since like, when I interviewed the last time you had. Did you have one kid with the hype? One then?

[Phoebe]

No, I. We had two.

[Host]

Okay.

[Phoebe]

2018 and 2021. And I, I hate to say it, but a lot of times we are just winging it. I mean, and now I'm working, I have. I'm forced to, you know, make sure pumps are charged and, you know, pump sites before going to work. It's not perfect. I hear these people, they have these excellent kids, a 1Cs or five, and they eat no carbs and they just.

[Host]

Those are white ladies doing tiktoks in their spare time. Don't worry.

[Phoebe]

You.

[Host]

You got a good reason. You're fine.

[Phoebe]

Yes, yes. But we're not, we're not running any alarm bells or anything on the kids. I mean, they're doing fine. And in fact, the oldest, she's 13. I went. This is a big deal. I went away for three nights last fall and she was. She changed her sister's pump for her. I think it fell off or something. So she. I do most of it, but the. I'm the oldest, she can do it. She just chooses not to yet. But that's what we're working on. But she's going to go to camp this summer. About 13 year old.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

And that reminds me that we need to push. She knows how to do it. She just doesn't like to do it. And I think that's kind of normal.

[Host]

Let me slip this in here. Just because you said that I've already given away two slots at Camp Sweeney in Texas, but I have four more to give away. So when you Hear this, if juiceboxpodcast.comgiveaways is still up, there's still time to enter to win a slot at Camp Sweeney. So for those people who enjoy. And you absolutely could enter as well.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

My goodness. Okay, let's dig into this for a little bit. So right now, your type ones are how old?

[Phoebe]

10 and 13.

[Host]

10 and 13. The older one is a little more immature about it, a little more wanting help, that kind of stuff.

[Phoebe]

Yeah, she. She can do it, but she, she'll do it if I, If I'm not there. She'll do it, but does not really want to take ownership. I'm talking about pump site changes in Dexcom. She's more. I don't understand why, but she's more likely to change her pump site than the Dexcom. She doesn't want to change your Dexcom. So I don't know if it's the. If it's hard for her to reach. But I do know the G7. Sometimes that button, we have a hard time with it. We, for us, we have to really press it into their skin so it doesn't always release as easily as the G6. And that might be part of what's going on.

[Host]

You don't think it's a laziness or a desire to have you involved or something like. Or anything like that? You think it's more functional?

[Phoebe]

It could be functional. She's dealing with some things I'm learning about her. She. She's my very challenging child. I don't know what she has going on. We've had a few evaluations for her. She's very smart.

[Host]

She's not taking after her dad, is she?

[Phoebe]

No, I'm not sure what she.

[Host]

You're trying to figure that out? Yeah, well, I mean, that's the other thing is that, like, this is. I mean, that's going to be in your mind for the rest of your life too, right? Like, yeah. What are you looking for there?

[Phoebe]

I'm not sure. We had a evaluation with a child psychologist and they called it autism and selective mutism. I've heard the selective mutism before, but she, since I put her in public school, she has friends she talks to. Everyone is just shocked because she talks to people. She wears makeup. She's very pretty. She knows she's very pretty. So I. And she just told me on this trip, she said, I don't have autism. I want to do that again. And they will see how smart I am.

[Host]

She's like, hey, I. I feel like I failed that autism test. I think I could do better.

[Phoebe]

Well, and I think it's because she was non cooperative. She wouldn't speak at all.

[Host]

Oh, I see.

[Phoebe]

I think my guess is she is very smart and this is like kid terms. She likes. She says. She. She likes to rage. Bait me is what she says.

[Host]

She's like, I'm just screwing with you, lady. Watch this. Awesome.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Yes.

[Host]

Did you say, hey, I should get a pass from stuff like this? But you know, isn't it funny? That's not how it works.

[Phoebe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Your kids don't see your situation. They see it as their situation.

[Phoebe]

Yes. And she doesn't really talk about. She. Out of all the kids, she's the one that doesn't talk about what has happened.

[Host]

Really?

[Phoebe]

Yes. Yeah. The younger one, that's type one. She. I do a lot of her stuff, but she can put a Dexcom on me and she can put an infusion site on me. So I think we'll be. For some. I think they just don't want to do it themselves. And I. Maybe it probably depends on all kids, but it just seems like they're not.

[Host]

Yeah, I think that's a fairly common thing. I don't. It would be easy to commingle that with all your other issues, but I don't know, that just seems like a pretty common thing for kids growing up. Like sometimes they just want a break. You know what I mean? They're not looking for. I think it's funny the way, you know, sometimes I tell people, like, try not to see diabetes right away. You know, people are like, you know, my kid's sick. What do you think it has to do with the hype one? I'm like, it could just be sick, you know, and. And the similarly here to you, like, I can see everything that happens to your kids. You could think like, well, what does this have to do with how they grew up and with our situation? But maybe it's just them being their age and, you know, just not wanting to be bothered putting on CGMs and pumps. That's pretty normal.

[Phoebe]

Yes. And that is my goal is to get them to function as adults. That. Especially the 13 year old. I don't. And it sounds horrible, but I. I think it's because we've had five kids. I homeschool them. I think I will be okay on them being launched into adults because I can see the light of me potentially having my own life again.

[Host]

So good for you. It's lovely. Isn't that nice? Yeah. I think you deserve it. Maybe just give them all. Give them all 50 bucks and tell them to go find their way. Like, hey, listen.

[Phoebe]

Yes, well, that is your job as a parent to work Yourself out of a job so they can live their own life. And that's what I'm working on.

[Host]

Good for you. How come you haven't given up?

[Phoebe]

Well, and that is, here's a plug for you. Because I have listened to you and that one thing I admire the most about you is you talk about resilience, and I don't know how to put that in my kids. And that's something I worry about. Because when I see my dad now and like every day when we were a kid, study hard and get all your puzzles. Be the best you can be. That's what my dad would say. So every day, like, we have a lot of rotten days, and the next day I just get up and my mantra is, do better today. You know, today will be better. That's what I try every day, is that the next day it's going to be better. So somehow I don't know how, but I don't know if it's an inherent. That some people have this. I'm not sure, but I see. I worry about my kids because I don't know that I see that. And I don't know if that comes. Maybe it doesn't come until you're an adult. I'm not sure. But that's my one worry.

[Host]

Yeah, I think the thing that comes for them will come for them. Like, you know, they've had a different experience than you've had, and the things that they'll be able to take from it and apply or, you know, the things that are going to burden them. I don't know that you can really impact all of that. You know, it's happened now. Everything's in motion. You got to kind of let it play out and give them the best tools you can, and hopefully they'll pick some of them up. That's it. Yeah, I. I'm with you. Like, the other day, what was I thinking? The other day, Arden and Kelly were sitting together, and I thought, oh, my God, like, Arden's, like, still in college, and we're only, like, two years removed from when, like, Kelly was pregnant. If I jump ahead two years, am I going to find Arden to be a person who could have handled that or not? Like, and is that just a function of the world, how it is today, or her experience growing up? And there's part of me that says, like, you know, I have my successes where I have them because of the, you know, the things I had to go through. But not everybody makes it through those things. So it's even hard to Say, like, oh, I'm glad that happened to me, because, look, you know, because iron sharpens the steel. Like, you know, like, that whole thing, like, what if it would have, like, killed me? Like, what if it would have ripped me apart? Like, then that's not valuable. And at the same time, she hasn't had experiences like that. And what if not having those experiences ends up being a problem for her? But then again, what if it's not? What if it turns out that the thing you were hoping for, which is for your kids not to grow up like you did, ends up being, you know, a great bonus? The problem is, you're not. The problem with life and raising kids is that you're not going to know until it's too late to do something about it. So you just have to pick a direction, be earnest about it, and hope for the best. And then look back over generations and decades and, you know, millennia, and say to yourself, well, it's worked out mostly, so hopefully it'll work out for us. I mean, that really is all it is.

[Phoebe]

You don't have any control, even if you can see what paths that are going on. And that's one thing I've learned from all of these kids, is you cannot control them. When they're little, you think you can control things for them, but you really can't. There's only so much you can make a kid do. So even if you see them going the wrong way, there's very little that you can do.

[Host]

I couldn't possibly agree with you more. And I've. I've tried to slip into the podcast over the years. You know, you meet a lot of people who are newly diagnosed, you know, as families, and the parents are right away, like, you can see them. They're like, if I just do this and this and this and this, and put all this in the right order, my kid's going to have a great, great experience in life and everything's going to be fine. And I say to that, yeah, hopefully, like, but also, you can't control the other part of it, like, who they are. I think people spend a lot of time looking at outcomes and trying to decide, like, how did that person get to that situation? How can I be in that situation where my outcome is similar? But I don't think that's how it works. Like, I just don't think that you can force yourself to be something that you're not. I think it's a lot of wasted time. Now, the sadness is, is that some people, some people's Parents want them to be lawyers. They end up being artists. And that's a lovely story, but some people's parents want them to be artists and they end up being heroin addicts. That's not a lovely story. Like, right. Like, your ex's parents probably, like, held that baby and was like, hey, nothing but possibility here, and look what he did to you. Right. And if you went and found them right now, they'd be like, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't think that was going to happen.

[Phoebe]

No.

[Host]

Yes.

[Phoebe]

And now when I talked to his mother, she said that he was a troubled teenager. And there's all these things, and there are kids who are troubled, like teenagers, young adults that turn out fine in the straight.

[Host]

Right.

[Phoebe]

In aerial, but not all of them. And now she will say the last, because we. I'm in my home state right now, so the kids have seen both grandparents, but his mother just a couple weeks said we never had any problem with him, which we all knew wasn't quite.

[Host]

Well, as they get older, they start revising history. Pretty.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. Yes. But that is just.

[Host]

She's worried God's not going to let her in. You know what I mean? So it's time to start backpedaling now.

[Phoebe]

Yes, but I can't. There's nothing I can do about it.

[Host]

No, no, but my point is that even if they saw him as troubled, I guarantee, if you went back on the day that she thought, hey, something's wrong with him, if you would be able to tell her this story, she'd go, oh, that's not gonna happen. Like, you know what I mean? Like, nobody, nobody thinks that's going to happen. And, and I don't think that's ignorance sometimes I just think that's hopefulness and, you know, just something. My point is, is that I'm agreeing with you. You can't direct your children to be something they're not.

[Phoebe]

No.

[Host]

There's too many variables and too much input in the world. And, and what's going to happen is going to happen. You lay a foundation and you model good behavior and you hope they pick it up.

[Phoebe]

That's the best you can do.

[Host]

It's really all you can do. You should go off and. And retire with this boy that you met in the thing and have some old people sex and plant a garden or something like that. You know what I mean?

[Phoebe]

I think it's probably actually better the older you are, honestly.

[Host]

The garden of the sex. What were you saying there?

[Phoebe]

Both. Both. I would have never imagined. And it's too early. I mean, we're not running off into the sunset. Not. We have a lot of things to get. Like his career.

[Host]

You might want to go slow.

[Phoebe]

Yes, it is very slow, but he has to relaunch his whole career because he had kind of a more public image. And it is very hard to live a public image with this kind of stuff going on.

[Host]

Sure.

[Phoebe]

In your life, people pulling you down. Even now, you never really. I, I think like, we're good. I'm good now, but it, it, you just, you feel like you have to be careful to not.

[Host]

I would go, I. Listen, I think going slow is a really good idea. Like, I mean, obviously you guys have been through a lot and I would understand trepidation. I would also understand you, you know, overvaluing the other person just because they're not screaming and yelling at you and waving a gun around. You might be like, this guy's perfect, but maybe probably not perfect. He's just not screaming, you know what? So, yeah, take it slow. I mean, but you know, you're an adult. You can still do the old people sex. You don't have to take it that slow.

[Phoebe]

You're not too far behind, so.

[Host]

Well, listen, now I'm just imagining you trying to sneak off in your parents house as a 50 year old. That's hilarious.

[Phoebe]

It's not as easy as you would think.

[Host]

It's not as easy as you think. I bet not. We have to go to the store.

[Phoebe]

Yes, well, we've had. Where we're at. We've had a lot of snow too, so.

[Host]

Oh, Jesus. So you can't do it in the car?

[Phoebe]

Is what you're saying the only place to escape? It's kind of. Because that first episode I did, I don't know if you remember, I was at my church. I went to my church to get away from the kids and then we had the fire alarm going off. And then today I'm sitting in there

[Host]

in a garage, in a minivan garage. You're very dedicated to making this podcast. I really appreciate it. Hey, listen, I want to say something because, you know, I joked a lot earlier and I don't want to joke if something about this podcast has helped you. I mean, you really just. It makes my day to know that I'm really happy for you. You deserve any good thing that happens to you. You deserve it 100 times over. So do your kids. You know, seriously, if I said something, did something, or put you in a position to whatever, you know, I'm grateful to know that yes.

[Phoebe]

Yes, it has been a big help, and I was looking forward to coming and giving you an update because it is a such a radical difference where I'm at. And I. I'm now considering getting. I might go back to school. College, either. I already have a bachelor's degree, but either health care or education. Maybe my master's degree to teach, because the school schedule works out really well with the kids because it's just me. Their dad does not help with anything significant. So it's all on you running the show right now.

[Host]

Wow. It's a lot using hindsight. Is there anything you could have done? I'm not putting it on you. I'm saying, like, in hindsight, is there anything you could have done sooner that would have broken you free from this? Like a piece of advice you could give somebody else?

[Phoebe]

There are things that I saw that I did not see. There's a lot, but this is my example. We moved a lot. The home we live in, we moved to in 2012. And it was shortly after that I was told I'd want to bring the kids up to see my family over the summer. We homeschooled. I didn't work. I think I was stupid for not seeing it, but he'd say, I can't live without you. I will kill myself if you leave me home alone to see your family. And then what kills me is I got divorced last December. My mom now has leukemia that they can't treat. And I'm just kicking myself a bit, you know, all those years I could have come and the kids could have spent more time with my family and known their uncles and. But I just didn't see it. So if you live with someone who is talking about killing themselves, they. They need help. You cannot save them, and that is not for you to help them out of. And I will. He doesn't do it anymore. But I started saying when he wanted to talk, when he talked about taking his life, I would say, I do. I'm not equipped to help you. Here's a number for a hotline. And it sounds very cold, but that is too much to have held over your head that someone's life is dependent upon you, you alone. So, yeah, I should have probably 12 years ago, if I had talked to someone, I should have. That should have been my red flag to start working on getting out.

[Host]

The separating you from other people who can, like, normalize your life and make you realize how crazy the thing is you're involved in. That's got to be a big piece of it. The threats. I can't live without you putting it on you that if something happens to them, it'll be your fault. That kind of stuff is like. Those are huge red flags.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoebe]

So that was a long answer to

[Host]

the question, but no, it's a good answer.

[Phoebe]

Yeah. So anyone. I. If you are in that situation, you need to get help. It's too much to deal with alone.

[Host]

Yeah. My gosh, I really. I can't thank you enough for doing this. I want to make sure that we've covered everything that you want to talk about. But I'm not rushing you. I'm just. Did you get through your thoughts or you have something else?

[Phoebe]

Well, I do have one other. This is not type 1 related, but I have had elevated A1Cs and I. I've often on put on my kids Dexcom. I'm. We're going to see an endocrinologist in the spring. But I have. When I sleep, my blood sugar goes up. When I. If I just do a fasting finger stick in the morning, a lot of times it. It's like 100, 112, 114. But if I put that Dexcom on, I can see I'm up in. Up to as high as 140 overnight the hours after I've eaten. So I'm kind of wondering if, because of my situation, my sleep has been so fractured from having type one kids and he would wake me up at night to argue. So my sleep has always been really bad since the first type 1 diagnosis. So I don't know if it's a cortisol response response. That's what I'm trying to figure out. If that can like, push you over the edge into the diabetes world.

[Host]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. So what are you doing right now? You're just monitoring?

[Phoebe]

Yes. I go back in April. They. They last summer she tested for Cushing's and they've checked. Yeah, I don't have any of the genetic. Genetic markers for type one, but I'm over 50. And that's the other thing. At my age, so many people say, well, everyone has type 2 diabetes at your age.

[Host]

But that's not true. Yeah. Yeah. Have you considered just everyone going to a beach and sitting down and not just maybe living there forever? So you know what? We. We paid our toll already. I'm gonna stare at the ocean until it's over.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it would be nice.

[Host]

But I hear you.

[Phoebe]

Well, so that's my other diabetes thing I'm trying to sort out thing you're

[Host]

sorting out my gosh. I'd like to share this with everybody. So this is just a little bit of like back end research that I did while we were talking for the last hour. It can be really difficult to, to see abuse. I think that Phoebe's story outlines that. So here's some signs that you might be in an abusive relationship. There's like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde dynamic. The person can be charming and sweet one minute and explosive and terrifying the next minute, which makes you feel like you're walking on eggshells. If you're getting truly gaslit. They deny things that are happening, tell you you're crazy, you're imagining things, and it makes you question your own memory or your sanity. Isolating you. They slowly cut you off from support, insult your friends, refuse to go to family events or make you feel guilty for suspending time away from home humiliation. They put you down, call you names, make fun of you in private or public. If you get upset, they claim you were, they were just joking and that you're being too sensitive to all, all of that. Sound like okay, that by the way, is just the first part. That's the emotional, psychological signs, physical stuff, intimidation, blocking doorways so you can't leave a room, punching walls near your head, throwing objects to terrify you. Reckless driving, driving dangerously fast or erratically while you're in the car to scare you into a submissive situation. Restraint, holding you down, grabbing your wrists, pinning you against the wall during an argument, threatening to hurt you, themselves, your children or your pets if you leave. All that sound like something that you've been through? Not the driving part. Like is there like one thing where

[Phoebe]

you're like oh, mouse games? I, I kind of question the, like the, the road rage and that type of thing with, with your passengers, yes, but the threats of self harm, that,

[Host]

that, all that financial stuff. Strict allowances, giving you a set amount of money and demanding receipts for everything while they spend freely and don't tell you what they're spending money on, sabotage, preventing you from working or going to school, hiding car keys, starting fights before interviews, things like that.

[Phoebe]

Waking you up when you're sleeping, not letting you sleep.

[Host]

Oh really? Just to make you unrested. Financial security, secrecy, hiding assets, taking out credit cards in your name without permission, or refusing to let you see bank accounts, digital signs, constant monitoring, demanding to know where you are at all times or using like Find My Friends or GPS trackers to stalk you, demanding your passwords froming you, forcing you to share your Phone, your email, your social media passwords as proof that you love or trust them. Harassment, sending you a barrage of texts or calls if you don't answer immediately. Sexual coercion, guilt tripping. Uses phrases like, if you love me, you would do this. Or pouting or punishing you for saying no. Ignoring boundaries. Touching you when you've asked not to be touched. Taking away condoms without your consent, wearing you down until you just give in to keep the peace.

[Phoebe]

Yep.

[Host]

If you're unsure, ask yourself this. Am I afraid of my partner? In a healthy relationship, you may be angry, annoyed, or hurt by your partner. In an abusive relationship, you are afraid of their reaction.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah. If you recognize these signs, please know that leaving is a process that you do not have to do alone. The National Domestic Violence Hotline, 800-799-SAFE or 1-800-799-7233, where you can text START to 887-88. And Safety Planning. They can help you to create a safety plan to keep you safe while you're in this relationship or while you're preparing to leave. Think we covered? Yeah.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Excellent.

[Host]

You're really brave. I appreciate you sharing this with me twice like this. Okay. Is it hard? Like, that list feels like I read your life to you, right?

[Phoebe]

Yes. A lot of it is familiar. He. I never had a hand laid on me. Like, my kids would say that it was a little over the top, some of the things done to them. And it. Sometimes it's hard to tell because you grew up the same generation I did. You know how parenting was when we were kids. So it's very hard to move into this new age of parenting.

[Host]

It does. When you grew up in the 70s, it does feel like everybody's just being super nice. You're like, what's. Why it's. Everybody's such a baby for. Nobody could take a backhand to the head anymore.

[Phoebe]

I know.

[Host]

Yeah. No, it is crazy. But listen, I've been pretty, you know, I've tried to be transparent on the podcast a lot. I've. You know, my dad would, like, kick the. Out of me. Like, he. And all he was looking for was submission. He just wanted you to stop arguing with him or agree with him or whatever.

[Phoebe]

It's pretty, as I say.

[Host]

Yeah, it was pretty common. And some of that bleeds over into my personality. And then you have to, like, live through another generation and realize I can't do that and then try to stop it. And if you're reasonably sane still, you know, if you're able to hold it Together a little bit. Sometimes you can make those changes, but often, you know, people struggle with that. You are a product of your, you know, of how you were raised and a bit about your wiring. So, you know, that's it. I don't know another way to put it. You can. You can get a dog and pet it and love it and it'll be lovely. Or you can kick it and it's not going to be lovely. And, you know, Phoebe, you got kicked, so now you've. Now you're alone and away from all that. It sounds to me like you're going to be able to put something really lovely together for yourself, for your. This part of your life, the second half of your life.

[Phoebe]

I sure hope so.

[Host]

Yeah. I think you're well on your way. It's awesome. These kids will drag you down with their demands and financial needs and then what they probably want to eat every day, right?

[Phoebe]

Yes. Yes. They want to eat all the time. There's no. There's no break. And that's the diabetes life. It seems like every day there's something that has fallen off.

[Host]

Listen, if you can keep two kids with diabetes alive, then everyone listening can. I don't want to hear it from any of you. All right? I don't. I. I'm too busy. Yeah, are you. Listen to this story. My goodness, you people will make a lot of people, I hope, feel better about their situation. I think a lot of people are about to hit stop and think I got to stop complaining so much.

[Phoebe]

Yes. Yes. Because that. That last night I had the police at. At the house. They're like, you sleep different ends of the house. I went out, I talked to my. Called my law enforcement friend. I'm talking to my dad outside, and then he's now my ex. He texts me, so. And so his pump just fell off. What do I do? You're kidding me. We are in this family crisis in

[Host]

the middle of a crisis, and they're like, hey, this insulin pump is a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

[Phoebe]

Yes. We. We're gonna change. Change out her site now.

[Host]

Diabetes does find a way to, like, you know, it never sleeps. Yeah, it creeps up on you. So you know what I've learned, though? It always just feels like the worst time. It's not really the worst time. It's just there's no good time for someone to tell you, my insulin pump just fell off, you know, so. Oh, my gosh. Wow. You're. You're. I want to wish you a happy new year and great new start for you, this is. I'm excited for you. I mean, honestly, there's nowhere to go but up.

[Phoebe]

So, yes, that is. We're on the way.

[Host]

Your life gets worse. I'm just going to assume there's someone out for you. You know what I mean?

[Phoebe]

Well, I. It should get better. It is a lot less chaotic now, and eventually this story will get done. And at least one of the kids in the story, it's kind of. He's. There's gonna be a type one in the story. And he. He's like. He said, I can't have what you have. No one would believe it.

[Host]

You live one of those situations where you hear people say, if I turned this into a movie, everybody would say, come on, that didn't happen to anybody.

[Phoebe]

Yes. It's too ridiculous.

[Host]

Can I ask just a last question? If you don't have an answer for it, it's fine. But do you find it difficult to exist in a calm situation? Does your body want the. The chaos or are you happy to be rid of it?

[Phoebe]

I'm naturally adhd, so I do not sit still. I can't watch TV or movies. The kids want me to watch movies. I. I will fall asleep or I just don't watch. Want to. I always have to be doing multiple.

[Host]

I mean, like, life stuff. Like, no one's calling the cops. Nobody's waving a gun around. Does your body go boring, or are you, like, okay with all that?

[Phoebe]

No, I. I do like calm. Like, if I am alone, very little. So when I am alone, I don't want any tv, I don't want any noise. If the kids are all gone, I have the house quiet. I just. There. There's nothing. So I do crave just quiet and calm, which I get very little of. But I do have a hard. I don't sit still and I can sleep anywhere. Like, we've. We flew here. So I sit in that seat and I. I'm out. I sleep through the takeoff, landing. I can sleep anywhere.

[Host]

I've come to realize that the fact that I can sleep through a root canal has something to do with how I grew up. I'm like, oh, this is so calm. I'm safe. Good night.

[Phoebe]

Yes.

[Host]

I've learned that while I. I am good at excelling in craziness, I don't prefer it. So, like, when things get calm and quiet, like, my family always says to me, like, oh, you'd get like. They all. Like, sometimes everybody just leaves. You know what I mean? Like, the girls get up and they're like, we're going shopping and that they're just gone for, like, nine hours. I don't know how you could do that, but they're just gone for nine hours. And my son will, like, you know, be like, hey, I'm going out to play basketball. And people like, what'd you do while we were going? I'm like, I just sat here. I was like, it was awesome. Just so quiet and still. Like, that's what I want. But I think you get confused because, I don't know, I've. I've lived through the. The, like, domestic version of storming the beach in Normandy. I'm good at it and. And. But it's not what I want. So.

[Phoebe]

No, I. I like to be busy. Like, I. I crochet or in that kind of thing. But there are a lot of times now, the older I get, like you said, when it's quiet, I can just sit, like, in one chair and not

[Host]

move there and just. And just feel. Feel the calmness. Right. Like how lovely it feels.

[Phoebe]

Yes, yes. But I. If I am in a listening situation for work or something, I. I have. I have to do something to focus, you know, If I have to be listening to something. Okay, I. I have. That helps me.

[Host]

Good. Hey, listen, whatever works. When I first met my wife, this is years ago now, but I. I noticed very quickly, I'm like, she's not comfortable when things are good. Like, when people are happy and getting along, it puts her on edge. I think it's like she's waiting for the other shoe to drop thing. And it's. She's better now. Like, much better at it now. But, like, in the very beginning, I was like, oh, God. When people are happy, she's like, oh, this is just the calm before the storm.

[Phoebe]

Yes, I. I do like calm. I do struggle with people arguing. I. I don't like. And I am. I. I will try to calm down.

[Host]

You're like, I hate doing this again. Just stop. Okay. Yes, yes, Phoebe needs a break.

[Phoebe]

Yes, Phoebe needs a break. So just keep calm. And that's all I'm looking for.

[Host]

Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. Hold on one second for me. Thank you so much.

[Phoebe]

Sure.

[Host]

I'd like to remind you again about the mini movie Med 780G Automated insulin delivery system, which, of course anticipates, adjusts and corrects every 5 minutes, 24, 7. It works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. The juicebox community knows the importance of using technology to simplify managing diabetes. To learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes. Visit my link medtronicdiabetes.com.com JuiceBox I'd like to thank the blood glucose meter that my daughter carries the Contour Next Gen Blood Glucose Meter. Learn more and get started [e-mail] juicebox and don't forget, you may be paying more through your insurance right now for the meter you have than you would pay for the Contour Next gen in cash. There are links in the show notes of the audio app you're listening in right now, and [e-mail] to contour and all of the sponsors. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. And if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? How would you like to share a type 1 diabetes getaway like no other? Join me on Juice Cruise 2026. You may be asking what is Juice Cruise? And it's a week long cruise designed specifically for people and families living with type 1 diabetes. It's not just a vacation, it's a chance to relax, connect and feel understood in a way that is hard to find elsewhere. We're going to sail out of Miami and the cruise includes stops in Cococay, San Juan, St. Kitts and Nevis aboard the stunning Celebrity Beyond. This ship is chosen for its comfort, accessibility and exceptional amenities. You're going to enjoy a welcoming environment surrounded by others who get life with type 1 diabetes. I'm going to host diabetes focused conversations and meetups on the days at sea. There's thoughtfully designed spaces, incredible dining and modern amenities all throughout the Celebrity Beyond. Your kids can be supervised and there's teen programs so everyone gets time to recharge, not just the kids going on vacation. But maybe you get to kick back a little bit too. There's going to be zero judgment, real connections and a whole lot of sun and fun on Juice Cruise 2026. Please come with me. You're going to have a terrific time. You can learn more or set up your [e-mail] juicecruise get a hold of Suzanne at Cruise Planners. She will take care of everything. Links in the show notes links@juicebox podcast.com have a podcast Want it to sound fantastic? Wrongway recording.com.