← Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes
Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes
#1847 Power of PACEs: Emotional Safety, Belonging, and Unconditional Love
00:58:24
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. Hey friends, welcome back to the Paces series. Today is the fourth and final episode. Over this series, we've talked about adversity, protective relationships, and the environments that help people grow stronger. The big takeaway from all this research is hopeful. The brain is shaped by experiences, but it's also capable of healing and adapting. In this final episode, Erica and I will pull the ideas together and talk about what truly builds resilience, emotional safety, belonging, purpose, community, and the everyday experiences that help people living with diabetes feel supported, capable, and not alone. If you're looking for community around type 1 diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast. Private Facebook Group juice box podcast type 1 diabetes but everybody is welcome. Type 1 type 2 gestational loved ones it doesn't matter to me if you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juice Box podcast type 1 diabetes on Facebook. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. The episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom G7, the same CGM that my daughter wears. You can learn more and get started today at my link dexcom.com juicebox Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod 5. And at my link omnipod.com juicebox you can get yourself a free. What I just say? A free Omnipod 5 starter kit. Free. Get out of here. Go click on that link omnipod.com juicebox check it out. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox links in the show notes links@juiceboxpodcast.com the podcast is also sponsored today by Cozy Earth. You can use my offer code juicebox at checkout to save 20 off of your entire order@cozyearth.com everything from the joggers that I'm actually wearing right now to the sheets I sleep on, the towels I use to dry myself with, and whatever else is available@goosecozyearth.com just use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. Erica, we are back to do the last little bit of. I don't even have a name for this series yet as we're recording it. Is it. What do you. What. What do you think we should call it?
- [02:53]
B
I think we should call it the. The Pace series.
- [02:56]
A
Okay.
- [02:57]
B
P A, C E or the Paces Series.
- [03:01]
A
All right.
- [03:01]
B
And that's really exciting.
- [03:04]
A
Listen, it just needs a name that makes sense.
- [03:06]
B
Okay.
- [03:07]
A
This is kind of a wrap up episode. It'll be probably much shorter than the other ones are, but it still has a lot of. It's not a wrap up of like, you know, just like. We're not just going to say the things we said over again. There's a good bit of information we're going to talk about. Kind of the opposite of the ACEs testing. Probably a good time to remind people in case they find this episode without having the whole series. Is that a number of months ago I found myself just wondering, you know, there's these, this test, right. That people take the. And I don't know what to even call it. I still don't even after talking about all this. Is it a predictor? Is it. How do you.
- [03:43]
B
The assessment. Ace assessment.
- [03:45]
A
Yeah, yeah. You take that assessment test, right. And the questions are, you know, did you. Did an adult often swear at you, insult you or humiliate you? Like there's like. It's like a 10 part test and you told me about it years ago. And the more of these things that have happen to a person. I don't know how to finish that sentence though. Like the more things on that test that you can say yes to. The what? Like how does that. Is it a one to one transfer of that or not particularly.
- [04:15]
B
There's an increased likelihood of having various challenges, whether it's mental health challenges, relational, professional. So you have an increased likelihood of. Because of your past experiences, the trauma that you experience from those increase the likelihood. Kind of. It's not predictive, but increases the likelihood of having various challenges.
- [04:48]
A
Even medical. Some medical conditions.
- [04:50]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [04:51]
A
Which is, I mean, both seems insane and makes sense. You know, I've been really, I don't know, enamored with this idea since you and I talked about it the very first time.
- [05:03]
B
Yes.
- [05:04]
A
And I found myself thinking, you know, recently, this is how this all started. I wonder if there are things that happen to people that are, you know, predictive of fewer problems or even if they can be, I don't know, helpful if you have some on the bad side and some of the good side, like, do they balance out somehow? And it's funny because just before we started recording, I still said, I don't know how to talk about this. Well, and then I, I started to say, and I. We hit records that I could say it here. It almost feels to me like you're wearing a suit of armor with 10 layers on it. Right. And 10 layers get you through life pretty well. But did an adult often swear at you, insult you, or humiliate you? Yes. Now I have nine layers of armor. And I know this isn't exactly perfect, but, like, it's the way it manifests in my brain when we talk about it over and over again. So do you lose three layers and then on the other side, do you gain a couple back? You know, And I started to say to you, like, since, you know, since this has been going on for me, this wonderment about this, I bring it up a lot when I'm recording with people. Like, I'll say to them, have you ever heard of the, you know, the ACEs test? And they'll say yes or no or whatever, and then we'll do it live while we're recording. And the people who seem like they're doing what well, even though they've had a lot of those ACES things happen to them, are also reporting a lot of the positive stuff, too. Just, you know, like, I was involved in community events. I, you know, I took, you know, I felt like there were two adults who had my back, like, even if they weren't my parents, like stuff like that. And I think it's fascinating. But moreover, aside of being fascinated by it, I think it's good for people who are raising children to hear because maybe your life's not perfect or you can't do everything right, or there's been somebody in your life who's, you know, created a tornado and now it's part of who you are, here are some other things maybe you could do to offset that. And that's what we're going to talk about today is that that kind of thing makes sense.
- [07:06]
B
Yes. And that's a great summary and explanation. And. And while, yes, if you have yourself been exposed to a lot of the aces, what we also have discovered and talked about is that not only if you didn't experience a lot of the protective experiences or the positive childhood experiences before 18, it's also not too late to heal from some of those things by engaging in some of these protective and compensatory experiences. So I think that's pretty hopeful and encouraging also. So while you can be thinking and listening as a parent yourself as you're raising your child, this also hopefully instills some. Some hope for yourself in your healing journey.
- [07:58]
A
I know that the way my brain thinks about it sounds kind of negative, but I actually think of it as a really positive conversation. I also want to point out to people this doesn't mean you can backhand your kid, then take them to the fair and go, it's all right. I counterbalanced it with that. Don't worry. You know, I guess Erica, like I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people and talk to them about how they've grown up and some people are just in situations and more people than you would, would believe. If you're out there listening to this, sometimes they're in situations not of their own making that have adverse reactions, you know, and impacts on their lives. And it's, there's nothing you can do about it. You're nine years old, you can't do anything about your dad going to jail. But turns out that's one of the things, you know, but the people behind, like you said, they can, you know, they can help to impact things in the other way. And I also think if you're an adult and you look back and you're like, you know, I do have some dysregulation issues and, you know, I do have a lot of things on that list. I hope that they understand that it doesn't have to stay like that. You know, like there maybe are things you could do to put some more layers of that armor back on again. Maybe there's seven. Is that right? There's seven or eight positive childhood experiences. Is that right?
- [09:14]
B
There are, let's see. Yeah, we talked about them in two episodes.
- [09:20]
A
Yeah, yeah. Feeling able to talk to family about feelings. Feeling supported by family during difficult times. Enjoying participating in community traditions, Feeling a sense of belonging in school, feeling supported by friends. Having at least one non parent adult who took a genuine interest in you. Feeling safe and protected by an adult at home. It's kind of interesting because I've gone through this with people who have said that they had a negative experience by not feeling safe at home, but also could report that they had an adult at home that they felt safe with. So all the adults in the house weren't not safe to them. Let's just go through the things that we have here and, and give people some ideas about what they can do maybe to build a happy home for themselves and maybe off put offset some of this other stuff. You want to go?
- [10:08]
B
Yes. Okay, so. And this will maybe feel a little bit like a review, but we thought this was a nice cohesive list and to address and yeah, yeah, if you
- [10:21]
A
heard the first three and you're in for the fourth one, we wanted to end on a, a positive upswing which will keep me from talking a lot Go ahead.
- [10:30]
B
Okay. And this is about. I like that armor analogy. What we're ultimately talking about and that we've discussed in other series is the sense of resilience. And how does that occur? Even despite or because of past trauma, can you still build resilience? I don't know if we've talked about this before, but someone asked me recently, how do you define resilience? And I probably used this definition before, but if you think about a blade of grass and someone steps on the grass, it might stay down for briefly, but eventually it will come back up. And so I like just that while we're using the armor analogy, just using this visual of the blade of grass, that, yes, you still might experience hard things, but you also can return and resume life and maybe even stronger.
- [11:25]
A
I'd like to add on to your. To your analogy for a second. That grass doesn't just stand back up. It actually reaches for the sun. That's what it's doing. It's trying to get itself closer to the light, like, so it pulls itself back up, reaching for the light. So you, you know, there you go.
- [11:40]
B
That's good. That's good.
- [11:42]
A
That's true. I think the whole world's like, running on the same eight principles, just spread out over a bunch of different categories. But that's neither here nor there. So.
- [11:50]
B
Okay, here we go. Okay, so the first one, emotional safety and support. So you feel safe most of the time, you know, expressing your emotions without fear or shame, that you aren't worried about getting in trouble if you are happy or sad or scared. I think that's a really important one.
- [12:13]
A
So letting people feel free to communicate how they actually feel and. And what then? Not judging them in return.
- [12:21]
B
Not judging them or not. Sometimes it can be hard to hear your child express fear around something. I mean, like, for example, diabetes or hatred towards it. And oftentimes we might want to say, oh, no, but you're so strong. It's okay. You're going to be okay. I think in that moment, saying it is, it can be hard sometimes. And I get why you don't like it, or I get that you don't, or you hate it. And we're also doing these other things right? So just always providing that freedom of expression, even if it triggers something within you that feels scary.
- [13:00]
A
And examine if your response is really to make them feel better or to stop you from feeling uncomfortable hearing what makes them sad. Right. Yes, that makes sense.
- [13:12]
B
Yes.
- [13:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Are you trying to stop yourself from feeling uncomfortable or are you trying to help them with your response and understanding that you can't, you probably can't really help them like flip a switch and fix it. And the thing that helps people most is just letting them express themselves. Let them feel heard and then what you mirror back to them what they've said so they know you heard them.
- [13:36]
B
Yes. That's reflective listening. That's good.
- [13:37]
A
I know what it is. Don't worry. You talk. I'm saying it for the others.
- [13:43]
B
Yes.
- [13:43]
A
So listen with empathy and be consistent with that. What do you think that means? Be consistent? It means let them feel like when they come to you, you're always going to be about in the same modulation. Right. Like you're not going to be flipping out one time and super calm the next time. Is that the idea? Friends, I just placed my order@cozyearth.com they're today's sponsor and I'm here to tell you about them. Use my offer code Juicebox at checkout when you buy and you'll save 20% off of your entire order. That's everything in your cart@cozyearth.com save 20% with the offer code Juicebox now. Why am I excited? Well, I just ordered the Cozy Earth blank blanket. It's the viscose bamboo blanket. I'm super excited about it. It looks comfy as can be and it's going to go so well with the sheets that we already have from Cozy Earth now. Yeah, I'm a bit of a Cozy Earth convert, I guess. I'm sitting here in my joggers. I used my towels coming out of the shower this morning. I slept on my sheets last night. Slept like a baby. By the way, cozyearth.com they pretty much have everything you want. Use the offer code juicebox to save 20% at checkout on skin care, women's and men's clothing, bath and sleeping accessories. And don't forget, Valentine's Day is coming up quickly. Get those pajamas. Cozyearth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout to save 20% off of your entire order. The Dexcom G7 is sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warmup time. That's right from the time you put on the Dexcom G7 till the time you're getting readings. 30 minutes. That's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable and light. These things in my opinion make the Dexcom G7 a no brainer. The Dexcom G7 comes with way more than just this. Up to 10 people can follow you. You can use it with type 1, type 2, or gestational diabetes. It's covered by all sorts of insurances. And this might be the best part. It might be the best part. Alerts and alarms that are customizable so that you can be alerted at the levels that make sense to you. Dexcom.com juicebox links in the show notes links@juiceboxpodcast.com to Dexcom and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful.
- [16:18]
B
That would be the idea. Although in reality I'm just even, you know, that is probably hard to always be a safe, you know, objective, calm listener. And that's, that's, that's called a therapist. Hopefully.
- [16:31]
A
But Eric is like, like, I can't even do that for my own kids. You want me to tell them to do it for, for their kids?
- [16:37]
B
I mean, it's hard to show up and be like just calm and invalidate. It is. It's impossible to do that all the time. But I think they know, particularly when they risk being vulnerable with you and you can just even reflect back. Like, that sounds like you're really scared and you might be scared inside too. That sounds like you're really mad. I mean, it's, it is so basic when you repeat, but that's usually all they want is to know that you heard them.
- [17:07]
A
I will say this too. Sometimes you try to hide how you feel or whatnot, but I don't think you can do that. From my own personal experience, somebody's going to come to you with a need at some point when you're tired or feeling crappy or whatever. And I think that people can tell your intent. So if you're generally a good, well meaning person in this relationship and they catch you on a bad day, I don't think they're going to just judge you on that bad day. And even if you're trying, but it's not coming off well. Maybe not in the moment, but I think over time, cumulatively, I think people understand your intent. So, you know, yes, okay, what's this other one?
- [17:43]
B
And there's always space to repair and apologize.
- [17:46]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. Nothing is like, nothing you do is the end. Like, you can always try again. You have at least one adult of this one here. You have at least one adult, past or present, who made you feel protected Seen and valued. So you can be that person for children in your family and in your home, is the point.
- [18:07]
B
Yes.
- [18:07]
A
Number two here, connection and belonging. Tell me about that, please.
- [18:12]
B
So everyone wants to belong, right? That is such a part of our human nature because we feel safe and seen. And so this is an important part of developing resilience and health is feeling like you belong, whether it's in your family of origin, your community, your friends, your sports, your activities that you have, you know, affinity groups. I think that's why there's so many different ages and stages of groups for people with diabetes out there. Because even though we all have diabetes, we might even feel more connected in a group. That's for our age or your orientation or whatever it may be. Everyone wants to feel like they are seen and they belong.
- [18:57]
A
We've all met people who felt like they were on the outside in their family growing up. And then you talk to their parents. Their parents don't know what they're talking about. And nobody seems to be a bad actor in this scenario. It could be either, I guess, right, that the parents weren't as inclusive as they thought they were and or the kid wasn't as available to what was being offered to them as they could have been. Is it like it's such a sad thing when you see it happen?
- [19:25]
B
I would go back, I wonder how safe if the child is feeling excluded and how safe do they feel to communicate their feelings? Yeah, like, what is the sense of safety around expression of emotion? Sometimes those might go hand in hand.
- [19:44]
A
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- [20:52]
B
would say, being aware, if we're talking about, you know, younger children, making it safe to express how you're feeling and to ensure that people in your family unit feel seen and safe and that they belong. Yes. I mean, again, again, depending on what age we're talking about, but for. Yes. Young children, teens, for sure.
- [21:14]
A
Are there people who just don't like their kids?
- [21:18]
B
I mean, do you like your kids all the time?
- [21:20]
A
No, I don't mean like that. I mean, like. Well, I, you know, I use the same example over and over again, but I know people who got pregnant and didn't mean to and then their lives didn't go the way they thought. And I can see them taking it out on the kid who was born from that pregnancy. Like, they seem mad at them. I love you and you're awesome and all that stuff, but you are the reason why I'm not where I want to be or XYZ or something like that. I. I don't know. I've just. I've seen that more than once, for sure. And. And what are you supposed to do about that if you're a kid? You know how you explain that to anybody? I told you I'd make this sad.
- [21:57]
B
That. That is a complicated scenario, Scott. I know I would.
- [22:01]
A
I'm just bringing it up so that people listening can know if there's something you could be broadcasting that back to your kids and not know it.
- [22:09]
B
Yeah.
- [22:09]
A
And if that. If you have any inkling like that might be, you, go find a therapist is what I'm saying. Anyway, let's get through this list. Let's get through this happy list of positive experiences.
- [22:21]
B
Okay? And with this, this section of connection and belonging, like we've discussed before, important that you feel you receive care and attention and security from other people outside of your families. Right. So not only do you feel a connection inside, but also from your teachers or your coaches, community members, your neighbors, mentors, things like that.
- [22:43]
A
Nice. Okay. Number three, love and stability at home.
- [22:47]
B
So home feels. Having a safe home feels not only you know, emotionally safe, but also physically. And we've. We've discussed this in the last two episodes about having the predictable routines, the actual physical affection and connection and an eye contact and touch, and that it can be upon receiving and seeing one another, you know, very. It's just. It's quality, not quantity of time.
- [23:16]
A
Yeah.
- [23:16]
B
And we talked and then about the forgiveness of repair. When things don't go always as smoothly
- [23:21]
A
as you want, you just let it go. Family members support each other in hard times, and love isn't conditional on performance or perfection. That's the rest of that. What's a common way that. That the conditional love rears its head? Like, what would that look like practically?
- [23:40]
B
I. Well, I think certainly with the. And we could talk about blood sugars, but I could see it pop up in other areas, such as, you know, your academic performance, your athletic or extracurricular performance. Do you feel as a child, do you experience like you're only going to be loved if you get certain grades or if you perform in a certain way or even inside the home? How are you acting? You know, your behavior. Obviously you want to encourage kindness and, you know, respect, but is if the child presents as being a child sometimes, you know, like, let's say a child shows up in there, they are having a tantrum, they are being a kid for whatever reason, or they're having low blood sugar or a high blood sugar. Being mindful that the child knows they are loved no matter what is a really important but also really hard concept because they also still need to be, you know, redirected and disciplined and shaped. And oftentimes, I know this can get really blurry around discipline, but also feeling guilty or badly about blood sugars and having diabetes, you know, that there's. It's hard to navigate those areas, but that your child feels unconditionally loved and supported is so important.
- [25:09]
A
So for people who are hearing that and thinking like, yeah, you're going to make these kids soft, why is that not the case? Why is kindness and empathy and respect not a pathway to, you know, the things that people are scared about if they're not tough on their kids?
- [25:25]
B
Well, I think what if we're hearing some of those words and going to the extreme of just, you know, letting kids rule the house? That's not necessarily what we're talking about. Right. Like, I think there is a line of having household rules and expectations and boundaries and having space for. For grace and empathy and validation. So I think, you know, there has been the kind of the extreme.
- [25:51]
A
It's a. Is it a movement?
- [25:53]
B
Yes.
- [25:54]
A
A parenting movement?
- [25:55]
B
Yes. Well, I'll tell you, we talked about it in the parenting series.
- [25:59]
A
While you think about it for a second, I'll tell you what I've done is I've set a line out in the distance and they all know as long as we're playing on that, on this side of the line, everything's going to be fine. But there's a different me that they don't 100% know. We don't want to cross over the fence to the other side and meet that guy. My kids have been very good about that. I don't think I've, you know, yelled at my children in 15 years. Do you know what I mean? Like. But there was. There's a couple moments where something happened. I was like, we made rules. You broke the rules. There's, you know, you're going to go sit in your room for a terrible amount of time, you know, staring at a wall or, you know, that kind of stuff. Like, you know, there's been some. There's some punitive action from me about that. I've always thought, growing up that they knew it now that they're adults. We talked about. I forget what you're talking about, but Arden's like, oh, I never would have done that growing up. I think she was talking with her friends, and her friend said, why? And she said, I think my dad would have killed me. And, like, like. But I've never, like, expressed that. But I did give her enough of, like, we should live on this side and happy side over here, and I'm happy to live over here with happy side, but let's not go over here and find out what happens over here. I don't know. Like, maybe I got lucky. Maybe it just worked and, you know, or whatever. But anyway, what's the soft pairing called? What. What makes snowflakes?
- [27:14]
B
I started listening to your story. I wanted to be attentive, so I. But it's in our parenting series.
- [27:19]
A
Eric is so polite. I spoke about something so she could go look into something. She goes, I wanted to be attentive while you're speaking. You must be such a good therapist. I mean, I'm healthier since I met you, so I guess I. I guess I am. Anyway, let's go on to for purpose.
- [27:35]
B
Okay. Yeah, we'll move on. Okay. So number. Where are we? Number four. Purpose and meaning. Having something to care about, having a sense of purpose, having a sense of, you know, why are we doing this? Whether it's your kind of your beliefs, your goals in life, and I think that's really important. We talked about this, too, around. Outside of diabetes. It's also important to have purpose and meaning.
- [28:02]
A
Yeah. So it doesn't matter even, like, if the thing I find purpose with when I'm 8 years old is not the same thing as when I'm 14. It's not the same thing as when I'm 18. As long as that. When I'm up and moving during the day, I have a goal. I'm oriented towards that goal. It makes me feel like I'm something. Right. Meaningful. Like working towards something.
- [28:24]
B
Yes. And in the action of that, you are going to be experiencing belonging. Right. Because you're working along other groups or members of a group who are all wanting the same goal or outcome. And I think that's important.
- [28:40]
A
Let's say your kid picks blue nail polish and some weird comic books and. But they've got a bunch of friends who like it, too. Like, you should just be happy that they have that. Right? Like, that there's a thing they enjoy. That's. Even if that thing is something that you look at and go, oh, this is not what I had in mind. But. But they still. They have friendship and they have community and they have a sense of belonging and something they feel focused on. Like, I would think you should be happy for that.
- [29:07]
B
Yes. I think it's. I don't want to say you should, but I think to look at it like, does your child feel safe? Does your child feel like he's. He's a part of something bigger?
- [29:18]
A
Yeah. I don't mean them and the kids.
- [29:19]
B
Yeah.
- [29:20]
A
I don't mean they're like, sacrificing a goat or anything like that. I mean, they just. They. They're doing something that's different than your idea of what would be fun. Like, for example, what if my children would have wanted to play soccer? What a scourge that would have been on my life, Erica. Okay, But I would have showed up at that soccer field and watched that dumb game that's meaningless and ends 1, nothing or 0, zero. I would have done that. Okay? Now, God bless them, they love baseball, so they saved me. But no, but seriously, like, you know, I've known people, good parents sitting at baseball fields who don't give a shit about baseball. They hate it and they're cheering louder than anybody else. They don't complain. I don't think their kid would even know they don't like baseball. Again, I've seen good parents do that. And I'm trying to say to you that if one of my kids would have made the horrifying decision to play soccer, that I would have been that person who would have clapped and said, that was good. I would have learned what all the dumb little things meant, and I would have acted excited at the end of a game when it was zero. Zero. Okay. I would have talked about the great defense and the hustle and everything else, even though inside of my brain, my adult mind would have known we've wasted our time with this stupid game.
- [30:30]
B
Oh, gosh. You're gonna get some feedback around soccer.
- [30:32]
A
Well, I just like screwing with the people who like soccer, that's all. Good.
- [30:34]
B
Well, I think that what. But what it is is you might experience some. Either grief or loss or confusion within yourself that your child is choosing to do something or believe in something or participate in something that is not in alignment of your own desires. So I think it's okay to acknowledge that. But then also championing their heart's desire is a beautiful thing.
- [31:00]
A
Can I pick your reign? Take a slight left turn on something I know you didn't think we'd talk about today.
- [31:05]
B
Maybe.
- [31:05]
A
I think it's apropos of the time, right. What do I do if my kid picks a different political leaning than I have in the House? How do I not end up where we just all don't like each other anymore? That seems to be a big deal nowadays. So, like, I'm sure in the past as well, I think we're going over the answers. The answers are, you think one way, they think another way, they're happy. Be happy that they're happy. But what happens when one side of the coin believes that the other side is making an existential mistake? How do you do that as a parent, then?
- [31:41]
B
That's complicated. I think what. What you would want. What I would want my children to be. Our critical thinkers. Whether we're talking about, you know, politics or any other quote, unquote, maybe controversial subject, teaching your child to be a critical thinker and consumer of information and processing what matters to them. How do they believe change happens? What is valuable? Those types of questions. And they might land in a different political area arena. They might land in a different faith. If you are concerned about that, I think the best thing you could do is, yeah, I kind of land on the critical thinker piece. But that might feel like an easy answer out. I don't know.
- [32:27]
A
Yeah, well, listen. What if, Erica. What if I'm a big dumbass, okay, and my kid's right, and I can't see it, and I'm telling them, no, you gotta be a critical thinker and figure this out. And they don't come up with the answer that I come up with, then I think they didn't think about it correctly. This is a big problem in parenting. As kids get older. And you see it the other way too. Sometimes the kids look at the parents like they don't know what they're talking about. I just heard a kid the other day, 21 year old kid the other day said, my parents are at the age now where I don't ask them, I just tell them. It was a simple example of like, we're going to have lunch on Saturday, come over, pick me up at my dorm room. And she's like, I used to ask my mom that, but it turned into like, oh, I got a plan, I don't know, blah blah, blah. But when the person was talking about what they were trying to say was like, my parents are getting older now, they're wishy washy, they're tired, they're not as focused, they don't care as much. I just tell them what to do now and they follow me. And I was like, there's something kind of like there was something sad and wonderful about it at the same time, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, oh, the kid thought, you know, my parents, they struggle a little bit around this one thing about making plans and going out. I don't give them a choice anymore. I just tell them where to be and what time to be there and we get together and we do it.
- [33:43]
B
And that works.
- [33:44]
A
Not that harshly, by the way. But then in that same situation, what do you do if your mom's out there? Like, you gotta vote for this person or you have to pray this way, or you have to do this, or you can't do that, or don't say this because something's gonna happen to you. I don't know, like, I guess I bring it up because I hear a lot of people talk about like, it's okay to like, you can't pick your family, so it's okay to disconnect from your parents. But that seems like the wrong thing to me. And I'm sure for some people it's the right thing. And I've seen people do it and it seems to make them happier sometimes. But I've seen people do it and it seems to make them feel alone too. And again, I would just roll back to thinking, if that ends up being my situation as an older person, I'm going to try very hard to think of it as my fault. That there was something I could have done at a formidable moment or a pivotal time that would have been one of these things. Allowing my kids to feel safe, to belong, to accept them for who they are, that kind of Thing. Anyway, I don't think there's really an answer in here. I'm just talking. Yeah.
- [34:48]
B
Such a complex topic, but a good one.
- [34:51]
A
Happens a lot. I imagine you talk to a lot of people who have this kind of disconnect.
- [34:55]
B
Yes. And I think that dilemma of choosing feeling like you have to make that choice of differentiating from your family, or it's kind of like you're discussing cut off completely. What is the healthier option? And there's no. Yeah. I don't think there's so many different scenarios that it's not an easy answer. But I think that the conversation and the thought around separation, differentiation, and complete cutoff is one that does happen a lot, and it's not easy, whatever you decide.
- [35:34]
A
Well, I bring it up because at some point, if you're raising a child with type 1 or any medical issue, really, that they have to manage on their own, at some point or another, it's going to become evident that that child is probably not going to do it exactly the way you did it. And if you see that as they're not trying hard enough or they're not doing enough or they don't care about their health, that's, I think, the wrong reaction to have. I think it's sad to say, like, people are who they are. Right. You give these people, you know, pull a thousand people out, give them all diabetes. They have personalities. They have the way they think about things. They're going to think about their diabetes that way as well. Like, I. I use Jenny as an example all the time. Like, Jenny's not a person who decided to have an A1C in the fives. Jenny's personality and who she is leads her to that. Like, she might not even think about it that way. If you asked her about it, she might think, you know, I make decisions because I want to be this. Like, I would say the same thing about somebody who gets up every day and runs or goes to the gym five times a week. They think they're making some. I think they think they're making a purposeful decision. I just think that's how they're wired, and that's why it works that way. I don't believe that there are people out there who are not trying or don't care about their health. I just think that things occur to people the way they occur to them. And one day your kid's diabetes is going to occur to them the way it occurs to them. And I think it's important not to fall into a trap of, like, of that diabetes turning into politics or religion or something like that, where you look at it and go, they're not doing the right thing. So, you know, I disagree with them and they don't agree with me. So we have a rift now. Like, it's just the saddest thing, Erica, to watch people raise little kids and to see all that, like, hope and love and joy all pulled together, and then you stay alive for 10 more years and you meet them again when they're 24 and you say, hey, how's your mom? I don't know. I haven't talked to her in a couple years. Like, where's all that at? Like, where was all the. Like, oh, it's so cute. It does that. I think we get taller and not as cute, and then we can't just let everything go. To me, my answer is, none of that matters. Like, I just think the personal stuff matters, but I think the rest of it's just extra. I'm sorry, I've taken this way off course. Are we up to resilience and coping skills?
- [37:48]
B
Yes. Okay. Oh, gosh. Okay. And by the way, I found and slightly remembered the parenting that you said softer. Soft parenting. It is Gentle parenting.
- [38:00]
A
It's called gentle parenting.
- [38:01]
B
Yeah. Which we might have. You might have even said that word,
- [38:03]
A
but I don't think my dad knew about that.
- [38:06]
B
Gentle parenting is. Which, again, we. We talked about before. I think the. The trick or the dilemma with that is it often leads to, you know, parents feeling, like, full of guilt and shame because we can't be. We can't be gentle all the time. All the time.
- [38:24]
A
Well, give me resilience.
- [38:25]
B
Okay, here we go. Okay. Resilience and coping. So you have learned healthy ways to handle stress. So we. Is that it's a tough one, because do you learn by observation of others around you? Maybe. But also through your life, you've learned, okay, this hard thing happened. Kind of going back to the blade of grass. I mean, the blade of grass I love. Like. Yeah. Reaching for the sun. So you have the mindset that even though. When hard things happen, I'm going to be okay. And it might be because of all these other things that are going on in your life, it might be that you are wired that way. Like, resilience is. Is such an interesting subject because it is both, and it is. Some people are wired that way, and some people have learned. Some people have been intentional and have figured out ways to have that mindset. Like, even when. When hard things happen, life's going to be okay. I'm going to be okay.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah.
- [39:26]
B
I'm not helpless.
- [39:28]
A
I. I don't know how to. It's probably just an eternal question about human beings, right? Like, I. I do take your point. I think it both makes sense to me, honestly. Like, it's not just. It's not just. I'm maybe wired that way, and that's the only reason I also maybe I've been through. Through some things that, you know, lead me in that direction. I was actually just thinking this morning because I'm trying to get Kelly to move somewhere warmer. I've heard that the idea of uprooting our life, I know it scares her and it fills her full of lists of things that would be done. I have to tell you, I know all that stuff would be difficult and unpleasant. I don't care if she walked in here right now and said, we're moving. I'd be like, right on. Let's make it happen. And then I would just do it. But I realized it's just probably because I grew up without a lot of parental direction, and I had to take care of myself and I had to take care of my brothers, and a lot of stuff was put in front of me, and there really was no. Like, there was no one to give it to, so it was like it was sink or swim most of the time. And I've just been through enough experiences that I. I really don't. I. It's hard for me to imagine something that wouldn't if it didn't turn my light out, that I couldn't get through. So, yeah, I think if you wanted me to pack the whole house up and get us out of here, I'd figure out a way to get it done. I wouldn't love it. I'm. I'm lazy at my core. Eric. I just want you to know there's a lazy person inside of me dying to be lazy. I can't wait to. I can't wait to retire so that I can show the world to that person.
- [40:56]
B
And then you. You'd be bored.
- [40:58]
A
Yeah. Oh, probably. But I can't, like. Like, dayto day, I can't do that. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm not good at that at all. Like, I don't come off that way, and you wouldn't think that about me, but I work on the weekends, and, like, late at night, I'm still working. And, like, I don't. I'm not good at stopping. Exactly. Until there's a human element. Like this afternoon, the middle of the Day. Here's a good example. I think this is a good example for all this. Arden made an announcement last night that she has 137 out of a hundred in her class that she has tomorrow. And I'm not going to school tomorrow. She says, I have 137. I can miss a day. It sounded flippant at first, but then she went through all the things that were going to happen in class tomorrow. She's like, I'm not involved in that. I'm not involved in this. I can do this on my own. I have a. I can. I can take the hit on the. On the attendance. I'm going to stay home tomorrow and bake. So she's been baking all day. She made cakes and cookies, and she's going to a party tonight with her friends, and she's just going to take a bunch of baked goods and spread them out, right? And so I got up this morning, I took my shower, I got my stuff going. I recorded with Jenny this morning. And then I had a couple of hours till I had to record with you. I have a thousand things to do. Like, I'm not kidding. But I walked downstairs to get myself something to eat, and Artem was baking and I just started helping her bake. And we just did it together for a couple of hours. I lined the pans and greased the stuff and flipped the things over and touched the hot stuff and did all the stuff she didn't want to do, you know what I mean? But we were doing it together. My son came down for his lunch break. He hung out with us. We chatted and talked and blah, blah, blah. My wife kind of took off one headphone while she was working and involved ourselves in the conversation. And then around, like, you know, about 15 minutes before you and I had to get together, I said, I gotta go now. Like, you know, And I said, I said to Arden, I was like, if you're still down here, like, when I'm done, I'll help you clean the dishes up. Like, I don't want to clean the dishes up, Erica. I'm not even going to eat any of that stuff. She's going to give, feed it to that boy. Do you know what I mean? But it was such a nice time to be around each other. No pressure, being supportive. Even the physical touch thing, it occurred to me when we were down there, as we walked back and forth, like, she hit me in the side once and I heard her go, and she just hit me in the side. And it's just like, A. It is just like you said, just a brief second. It's meaningless almost until it's not. And then you think, like, this is awesome. I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying.
- [43:27]
B
What an idyllic afternoon. I'm like, gosh, that sounds lovely.
- [43:31]
A
I mean, you know, working from home, you can, like, you can move the hours around. But also, she'll go to that party tonight, and I'm gonna sit around and work on stuff all evening. So I'm lucky that I get to shift my day around a little bit. Like, everybody can't, like, in the middle of the day, just be like, oh, I'm gonna bake for two hours. And that's not a thing I normally do either, but today's one of those days where it actually came up and we're recording. And I think your point earlier was that that doesn't have to happen all the time. But I also realized that when I did it, she wasn't stunned that I stopped working and did it with her. It's that steadiness you talked about earlier. That's a thing she would expect from me on some level. And then it happens. And then there's this comfort that comes over her that this thing that she expects happens, and then that creates confidence. There's all these little ways to, like, enrich people anyway.
- [44:22]
B
Well, and even just the belonging in that the kitchen, there's a safety and sense of, okay, what this is. We. We all belong here together, and we're doing this joint activity together. I mean, it is. It's. It's a cool, beautiful example.
- [44:40]
A
You're all missing out. If you're not cooking together, sometimes it is a. It is like, it's a team effort. And, you know, you. You rise and fall together. Sometimes the food comes out crappy, and you just eat it anyway, and you laugh about it. You know, that didn't work. And, you know, and sometimes it comes out awesome. You get to celebrate with each other. And then, you know, even the cleaning up can be fun. I think there are a lot of little. I don't want to turn into, like, one of these, like, bro podcast guys. But, like, there's a lot of things that society has shifted on over the years, and we're losing out on some of them. And I think. I think cooking and eating together is one of them. So, anyway, you know, well, you're.
- [45:15]
B
You're gonna make me and probably a lot of listeners. We're gonna. Cooks, bake some cupcakes.
- [45:21]
A
She made these tarts she took the. The berries, and she, like, I don't know, put them with sugar and, like. I don't know, she had to, like, brought them to a boil or something to turn them into filling. And then they went inside these cookies, and she's like, try one. It tasted like a pop Tart.
- [45:35]
B
Wow. I know. It feels. That sounds sophisticated.
- [45:38]
A
Awesome. I was like. I was like, this is really good. What are we up to? Knowledge. Did we get through? Resilience. Okay. All right. We're starting to go over on your time. I'm sorry.
- [45:47]
B
No, no, no, we're good.
- [45:48]
A
We're good. Okay.
- [45:49]
B
Okay. Number six, knowledge and opportunity. So you have access to learning, and you're also encouraged to continue to explore. And I think that can look like a lot of different things. I mean, even just with the example of baking, there's that opportunity to, like, let's try something that might totally fail.
- [46:10]
A
Yeah.
- [46:11]
B
But not even using that word. Like, it might not turn out the way we want, but that's okay. And not experiencing, you know, shame or any kind of negative feedback when you do make a mistake. I know that I'm thinking as we're talking about this, you know, we're coming recording post Olympics with Alyssa Liu, and her narrative of resilience is one of. It's okay if I fall. You know, people are curious. Do you. Have you been following her in figure skating?
- [46:41]
A
I don't know about the Olympics. I'm sorry, but. Okay, okay, but go ahead.
- [46:44]
B
So sorry. Okay, so Alyssa Liu won the gold
- [46:48]
A
medal and figure skater bake in the afternoon. Erica. Yeah, yeah, you out White ladied me with that one. Go ahead.
- [46:57]
B
Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, so really. So she won the gold medal, and she used to be a figure skater. Very. You know, she was really successful as a younger girl. I think she retired in her teens, 16, and then didn't skate for two years, three years. These numbers aren't right. But she returned to figure skating and presented with such joy, and she was. Her kind of narrative is that she's out there. She doesn't care about the results or the medals or the judges. And if she falls, it's part of her journey. It's part of the performance, and there's nothing a sense of shame around it. And I just thought that's, you know, that probably took a lot of work for her to get to that place. It's not just like, she showed up and was like, who cares about the judges? So there's that element that I think is important to hold. But Also, somewhere along the line, she learned that it's okay to show up and make mistakes. And that's not gonna be.
- [47:56]
A
You kind of feel like you have permission not to be perfect and that there's no judgment at the end of it. Like, I tried and it didn't work out, and that's fine. Listen, I built this whole thing on that. I was talking to somebody earlier today who's thinking of starting a business up, and I was like, you think I had this all worked out when I started this? I was like, you're out of your mind. I just, like, I didn't know what I was doing. I had an idea. I put some effort into it. Taught myself about the first thing that went okay. Taught myself about the second thing that went okay. I said, I've made mistakes along the way. I've done things that, like, have wasted. Been incredible waste of my time. In the end, you learn something from it anyway and, you know, you just move on and build on it later. It's just the whole world's a T shirt slogan if you just let it be Erica. Like, I mean, honestly, like, go back to, I don't know, go back to stoicism and read their writings and then turn it into a 20, 26 T shirt slogan. It's all the same stuff. Like, there's like five things you have to do and you can be happy. It's not that hard. It's hard when other people get involved and your feelings get involved and your paranoia gets involved and you start thinking, oh, I have to be perfect. I can't fall down. I have to get 100 on everything. I mean, let's get even. Arden last night, like, she's explaining to us she has 37 extra points over a hundred, because there's part of her who thinks I should be going to class. I have to be able to offer up enough reasons not to us, to her for her to be comfortable in doing this. And she built up enough buffer that she could be downstairs in her pajamas baking and feel comfortable about it. I gotta be honest with you. Like, I wouldn't want her just not going to school, but she doesn't have to have 37 more points. She could have. Like, she can end with, you know, a different A or a B or something like this. Not that important. Like, you know what I mean? Like, as long as I tell my the same thing. Both of my kids went to college and I was like, look, colleges and grades. It's understanding. I was like, you're gonna go into the real world, if you don't understand the thing you studied, you're gonna be in trouble. I was like, so, like, cheating to get a good number. You just kind of a problem. Later, you're going to be out in the real world, someone's going to say something, and you're going to realize, oh, my God, I'm a fraud. I don't understand this. And I was like, so, you know, don't. It's not about a number to me. So you're going to learn something. Like, go learn it. Once you understand it, stay home and bake on Friday. What do I care?
- [50:09]
B
Well, and that. That kind of narrative builds resilience and removes that pressure around the perfectionism, and then that leads to more confidence and trying new things and pursuing new goals. Right. Because then, you know, well, if I don't make it that way, I'm still going to be okay. I'm still safe.
- [50:30]
A
Yeah. I'll figure it out. I want my kids to just feel like, oh, I'll figure it out. You know, that's. And I don't know if they'll actually figure it out. Erica. That's not important. The important thing is that they feel like they can. You know what I mean? Like, they might fall on their face. I have no idea. They could be back here three years from now being like, hey, can you please pay for my dental appointment? I can't afford it. I don't know where they'll be. But. But at least they. At least they're not running around scared. Like, I'd much rather see my kids running forward failing than standing still and cowering, you know? So. All right, where are we at? I'm sorry.
- [51:02]
B
Okay, so number seven, Body health and safety. So having access to healthy, nutritious food, clean water, healthcare, you're living in a physically safe environment. I like this last one. You've learned to rest. Right? Talk about the body trust concept. Being able to listen to your body and give it what it needs without feeling that sense of burden or shame. Kind of like what you just talked about. Again, going back to the baking analogy, you were able to say, I can do this now and I can shift work later. And there's not that sense of guilt.
- [51:41]
A
You didn't read it right out, but you've learned to rest, move, and care for your body without guilt. I think that's important.
- [51:47]
B
Yeah.
- [51:47]
A
And I. I'll tell you, too. I. I bring this up all the time, but I have a. What I consider to be a flexible rotating to do list in my head, like, the thing that's number one right now, something could happen five minutes right now to make that number five for me. And I let it slide down without any compunction at all. I'm like, okay, that's not as important anymore. It'll slide. Because if I keep saying, well, this is number one now there's a new number one, and now there's a third number one. I'm not built to handle three dire things happening at the same time. I can't do that. So something's not as dire. It slides down the list. And I tell my wife all the time, my wife's got one of those jobs where there's always a thousand things to do and they're never going to get finished. And she's like, I got to get this done. I said, you've been doing this since. I said, since you were out of college. I said, we're in our 50s. You've never caught up once. I've never heard you emerge from a room and go, I've done it. There's nothing left to do. I've caught up. I was like, it's never happened once in your life. I'm like, just accept that. That's going to be. Stop feeling like you're chasing perfection and start realizing that this is the game. The game is there's always something to do. The trick is not feeling like you're going to get it all done. Trust me, you all will listen.
- [53:01]
B
It's a hard mindset shift.
- [53:03]
A
Most of the people listening will listen to me about that. Before that lady will, I was like, you know, she's punishing me for loving her and dedicating my life to her and stuff like that. But, like, she ain't going to listen to me. But some of you might. I'm helping you because she won't listen. But like, she. She can't do that. Like it's not in her nature. Like, she'll die.
- [53:19]
B
It's hard.
- [53:20]
A
100%. She's dying in that chair. 100%. We're going to push her into the ambulance. Right from the chair she works.
- [53:26]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [53:27]
A
And with her last breath, she'll say, it was worth it. And I really think that, by the way, she loves what she does. And she's one of those people, she's task oriented. If you stopped, she thinks she's going to retire. That's insane. That lady ain't retiring. And unless I'm wrong, and I'd be happily wrong, I'd love to watch her sit in a chair for 10 years and go for a walk. I think that's what I'm working towards is getting her to that spot. My fear is I'll get her to that spot and she'll be like, I'm just going to consult on the side. Then I'd be like, yeah, I. I'm going for a walk by myself. Last thing. Community injustice. You live in a space where people are treated fairly. Help is available when you need it. You feel valued by your community and society at large. We're not always in charge of that about, like, financially, where we can live or, you know, what part of the world is safe or whatnot. But if you have that, it's definitely a bonus for you. And if you. It's within your grasp to move towards it, you should know I think it's important for you. So, Erica, I really appreciate you doing this with me. I appreciate you letting me text you some random sentence that says, hey, there's aces. There must be something opposite. And us turning it into four hours worth of conversation.
- [54:43]
B
Well. And yes, lo and behold, it's there.
- [54:46]
A
You really should respond to me and say, please leave me alone. That's what I. Lose my number. Or come up with a more fully fleshed out idea. Would you please.
- [54:57]
B
No, it's good. That's how your brain works.
- [55:00]
A
Yeah. Well, let me thank you for doing this again and tell you how much I appreciate you and your time. And remind people that Erica's got bills, too. So. Ericafoursythe.com if you're looking for an awesome therapist who specializes in helping people with type 1 diabetes, she can't help you in every state. But if you live in California or if you live in. Go, Erica.
- [55:23]
B
Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Florida, then she
- [55:27]
A
can help you virtually.
- [55:28]
B
Yes.
- [55:29]
A
Are we adding more or did the government put the kibosh on that?
- [55:32]
B
There's a. There's a potential of one of Washington, but that's. That's not close. It's still in the works.
- [55:38]
A
District of Columbia or state?
- [55:40]
B
A state. State.
- [55:42]
A
All right, well, listen, if you live in a hippie state, Erica can probably help you. Ericafoursyth.com is what I just heard. Or Florida, which is just a different kind of hippie state. All right, talk to you later.
- [55:51]
B
Thank you. Thanks, Scott.
- [56:02]
A
This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod 5. And at my link omnipod.com juicebox you can get yourself a free. What I just say? A free Omnipod 5 starter kit. Free. Get out of here. Go. Click on that link omnipod.com juicebox check it out. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox links in the show notes links@juicebox podcast.com a huge thank you to Cozy Earth, a long time sponsor. Cozyearth.com use the offer code Juice Box at checkout. You will save 20 off of your entire order when you use that code. Don't let me down kids. Head over there now. Get yourself some joggers, some towels, some sheets. Save yourself some money. Support the podcast. Make your life beautiful and comfortable all the time. Same time cozyearth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout Dexcom sponsored this episode of the Juice Box Podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom G7 at my link dexcom.com juicebox hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. My Diabetes Pro Tip Series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward, practical insights that truly make a difference. This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin dosing adjustments or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over 35 years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The Diabetes Pro Tip Series runs between episode 1000 and 1025 in your podcast player, where you can listen to it@juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu. Have a podcast. Want it to sound fantastic? Wrongwayrecording.com.