#1855 Murder at the Subway

Summary

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Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes

Episode #1855: Murder at the Subway
Host: Scott Benner
Guest: Lars
Date: May 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Lars, a long-time type 1 diabetic originally from New Zealand who’s now living in Canada. Scott and Lars delve into Lars’s highly unusual diagnosis story, experiences growing up with diabetes across continents, an infamous hypoglycemic event at Subway (with video evidence!), technology changes over the years, the current landscape of diabetes “cure” research, and the value of community support. The conversation is candid, warm, sometimes humorous, and full of personal insights for anyone navigating life with diabetes.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Lars’s Diagnosis Story—A Unique Journey

[03:39 – 07:23]

• Early 1990s New Zealand Trials: Lars was identified in a nationwide islet cell antibody screening led by Professor Bob Elliott, pioneering early immune-marker identification.
• Unusually High Markers: Lars’s islet cell antibody count was 324 (with 10 being borderline).
• Vitamin D/Nicotinamide Trial: As part of a study, Lars was given large nicotinamide (vitamin D derivative) pills to see if diabetes onset could be delayed.
• Result: Lars developed type 1 diabetes at age 13 but believes the intervention delayed his diagnosis by 3+ years.

“They started me off with these nicotinamide tablets… So I had to learn to swallow these huge tablets. And then part of this trial was I went in for a yearly glucose tolerance test…” — Lars [05:09]

• No Classic Symptoms: Diagnosis was through annual testing, not traditional symptoms.
• Impact: None of his other family members developed diabetes.

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2. Growing Up with Diabetes in New Zealand’s 1990s

[08:40 – 12:58]

• Limited Technology: Management meant older insulins, no pumps/CGMs, and government-funding constraints.
• Social Side: Lars describes wanting a “normal” teenage life—he played sports and maintained friendships.
• A1C Outcomes: Maintained A1Cs in the high 7s to 8s, which was considered reasonable at the time.

“We couldn’t monitor it as well as we can now…The insulin…was as best as you could do without wanting to test, like, 25 times a day.” — Lars [12:15]

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3. The “Murder at the Subway” Incident

[09:07 – 25:17]

• Infamous Hypo Video: A security camera captured Lars during a severe low while working at Subway; the video is available on YouTube.
• Incident Details: Lars, while low, was observed flailing with a bread knife and unable to function, alarming coworkers and customers.
• Reflection: Seeing himself on video was enlightening; he hadn’t realized the severity of his episodes.
• Access to Technology: No CGM at the time; now uses Omnipod Dash and Dexcom G6.

“I asked for [the video] because I'd never seen myself have a low before… You don’t see yourself going low as a diabetic. Right? You just have the low and other people see it.” — Lars [11:22]

• Aftermath: Required to recover in the back with a soda, then returned to work.

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4. Transitioning to Canadian Healthcare & Modern Devices

[15:35 – 21:31]

• Move to Canada: Lars moved to Alberta to be near his daughter after her mother relocated there.
• Healthcare Access: Initially struggled with acclimatization and had a severe low at a train station, leading to EMS involvement and the theft of his phone during the event.
• Pump Technology: Switched to an insulin pump (Omnipod) in 2015 via Alberta’s funded program at his (now) wife’s suggestion, after she had to call EMS for another low.

“My A1C's come down. My last one was actually 5.9.” — Lars [21:31]

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5. Reflections on Diabetes Education and Media Accuracy

[25:30 – 28:16]

• Public Understanding: Lars urges better education for both people with and without diabetes.
• Frustrations: Highlights how media and TV perpetuate dangerous myths, like giving insulin to someone during a low.

“That’s the education around it—where it can help people have longer, fulfilled lives.” — Lars [26:23]

• Importance: Correct portrayals can empower bystanders to help effectively in real-life emergencies.

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6. Community Involvement & Peer Support

[30:40 – 32:26, 35:26 – 36:14]

• Modeling Events: Lars participates in Diabetes Canada’s nationwide runway events, modeling diabetes tech and supporting fundraising for diabetes camps.
• Giving Back: He remains active in numerous online diabetes groups, providing guidance to those newly diagnosed.

“If I can be like an older person and they can, newly diagnosed people can ask me questions. I'm always happy to…” — Lars [32:26]

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7. Personal Complications and Management Evolution

[33:06 – 34:41]

• Retinopathy: Experienced eye complications, requiring multiple injections directly into the eye.
• Improved Health: Since modernizing his management (CGM, pump), has stabilized A1C and avoided further complications.

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8. Moving Continents—Practicalities and Social Growth

[40:00 – 41:51, 43:00]

• Logistics of Moving: Lars moved to Canada with little more than clothes and ~3 months’ worth of insulin, relying on social media contacts to navigate the Canadian health system.
• Personal Transformation: The geographic and life changes helped Lars become more extroverted, participating in public events and conferences—growth he attributes to both circumstance and his wife’s support.

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9. Current Views on “Cures” in Diabetes

[47:40 – 56:15]

• Skepticism Toward “Cure” Hype: Lars is excited about stem cell/islet research but feels it’s “way too early” to call current interventions a cure, cautioning that immune suppression and other therapies aren’t a true fix.

“Calling [stem cell transplants] a cure is too soon…I don’t think we’re going to have a cure for diabetes until we know what causes it.” — Lars [48:14]

• Definition of Cure: For Lars, a cure would mean no more medication, immune suppression, or special infusions.
• Cautious Optimism: Would consider new therapies if proven safe and long-lasting, but for now feels well-served by current technology.

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10. Technology Adoption & Life with Modern Diabetes Management

[34:15 – 36:14; 58:13 – 58:57]

• Lifetime of Experience: Sees a combination of personal experience and real-time data as key to his control.
• Embracing New Tools: Uses Omnipod Dash and Dexcom G6; is excited but cautious about automated algorithms and future tech.

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11. Reflections on Family, Life, and Looking Ahead

[59:33 – 60:24]

• Background: Now married 10 years, one daughter, no other family members with diabetes despite large extended family.
• Relocation Pros and Cons: Enjoys Canada but laments insulin access differences—would love a life of “endless summers” split between hemispheres.

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Memorable Quotes

• On Growing Up with Diabetes:
  “I was different, obviously. And you don’t want to be different as a teenager…But I had a pretty, I suppose you can call it, normal teenage life…” — Lars [08:40]

• On Public Perceptions:
  “My biggest thing is the education of non diabetics as well, because…it’s still misunderstood…on TV…the doctors actors will still, ‘oh, they’re low, so give them insulin.’ It’s like, yeah, that will kill them, but sure, okay.” — Lars [25:51]

• On Community:
  “If people have questions who are newly diagnosed and I have some experience…which usually I do, it means that I can provide a bit more experience for them and help them succeed.” — Lars [35:26]

• On the “Cure” Narrative:
  “I think calling [current therapies] a cure is too soon…if you stop those [anti-rejection drugs], what happens? … I don’t think we’re going to have a cure for diabetes until we know what causes it.” — Lars [48:14]

• On Adaptation:
  “Since I moved here [to Canada], I’ve become a lot more extroverted… I was probably very introverted in New Zealand.” — Lars [43:00]

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Notable & Humorous Moments

• The Knife Incident: Detailed play-by-play of Lars’s hypoglycemia episode at Subway, as seen via security camera footage, including plastic gloves mishaps and confused customers.
  “[Your arms] get weird to scarecrow over your head a couple of times.” — Scott [23:59]

• Pet Confusion:
  Scott amuses himself and Lars by mistakenly thinking bearded dragons are from New Zealand, illustrating cultural/pet differences.
  “It would be like if I woke up one day and found out that people in New Zealand were keeping squirrels.” — Scott [38:55]

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Diagnosis Story Begins: [03:39]
• Effect of Vitamin D/Nicotinamide Trial: [06:22]
• Childhood & School Experience: [08:40]
• Subway Incident Discussed: [09:07]
• Technology & A1C Discussion: [12:06]
• Moving to Canada & Healthcare: [15:35]
• Transition to Pump: [20:09]
• Community Involvement: [30:40]
• Treatment Complications: [33:10]
• Views on the Cure Narrative: [47:40]
• Outro/Final Reflections: [59:33]

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Takeaway Messages

• Living boldly with diabetes is possible: Lars’s story underscores that diabetes doesn’t preclude an active, fulfilling life.
• Community matters: Both giving and receiving support within diabetes communities—online and offline—is invaluable.
• Question the hype: Skepticism toward overblown claims about a “cure” is healthy; focusing on management and incremental progress is empowering.
• Advocacy is key: Accurate public perceptions and media portrayals can directly impact safety and awareness.
• Embrace technology: Modern devices, real-time data, and program support have revolutionized diabetes management.

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For more resources, past episodes, and community connections, visit juiceboxpodcast.com or search “Juicebox Podcast Type 1 Diabetes” on Facebook.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.

[B]

Hi, my name is lars. I'm a type 1 diabetic, have been for about 32 years.

[A]

My grand Rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications, well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan. What do these three things have in common? They're all available@juicebox podcast.com up in the menu. I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you@juicebox podcast.com if you're looking for community around type 1 diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast Private Facebook group juicebox podcast type 1 diabetes but everybody is welcome. Type 1 type 2 gestational loved ones it doesn't matter to me if you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juice Box podcast type 1 diabetes on Facebook. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. This episode of the Juice Box Podcast is brought to you by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by type 1. Please take a moment to learn more about [e-mail] on Facebook and Instagram. Touched by Type1.org check out their many programs, their annual conference awareness campaign, their D Box program, Dancing for Diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night and so much more. Touchedbytype1.org you're looking to help or you want to see people helping people with type 1 you want touchedbytype1.org Today's episode is also sponsored by Eversense 365, the only one year ware CGM. That's one insertion and one CGM a year. One CGM one year not every 10 or 14 days. Eversensecgm.com juicebox the podcast is also sponsored today by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Technology. Tandemoby has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages 2 and up. Learn more and get started today at tandomdiabetes.com Juicebox hi, my name's Lars, I'm

[B]

a type 1 diabetic, have been for about 32 years.

[A]

How old are you, Lars?

[B]

I'm 45 this year.

[A]

45? You were 13 when you were diagnosed?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And.

[B]

But I bet you all the money in the world you've never heard my diagnosis story.

[A]

Oh, I can't wait to find out. I just wanted to find out real quickly. Are you married? Do you have kids? Are you single? What's your.

[B]

I'm married and I have a daughter.

[A]

How old?

[B]

She's 17.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, look at you. All right, well, what do you mean? What happened? Don't you feel like it's possible? I've heard every version of someone's diagnosis story.

[B]

Potentially. I mean, you've been doing this for a while, so. Potentially. But my one is very different.

[A]

All right, surprise me. Let's do it.

[B]

So in the early 90s, a famous professor in New Zealand, he was knighted as well. He pioneered, and it's actually relevant to the trials going on now, he pioneered the use of encapsulated pig islet cells.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So way back in the early 90s and stuff. And so he got approval in New Zealand, which is where I'm from originally, to test all the five year olds in the country at the time for islet cell antibodies. So with 10 being a borderline count, and obviously the ethics said if there were any one of the five year olds, had like a count of ten, then they would test the entire family. Mom and dad got tested. Theirs was like one or two, which was normal, so they weren't worried about. But my count came back at like 324.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

With 10 being borderline.

[A]

Wait, what was the doctor's name?

[B]

Professor Bob Elliot.

[A]

Bob Elliot. Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And his idea, so he was trying

[B]

to see if a form of vitamin D, pretty sure it was vitamin D, called nicotinamide, would hold off the onset of developing type 1 diabetes.

[A]

Okay. So he wanted to test everybody, get a baseline, and on top of that, hit some kids with vitamin D if they had certain markers.

[B]

Yes, an islet cell count. And so because my sister was 10, which was the borderline. I'm not sure how they worked that out, but they did. And so mine, they pulled me in to test me. My islet cell antibody count came up at 324 or something insanely large. Okay. So they started me off with these nicotinamide tablets, literally horse tranquilizer pills, twice the size of a Tylenol. And so, like, I was nine, nine and a half, trying to swallow these. So I had to learn to swallow these huge tablets. And then Part of this trial was I went in for a yearly glucose tolerance test, was fine for the first two and a half, three years going into my first year at high school because obviously schooling's a bit different to. In New Zealand, to North America, and about April, just before Easter. So great time. And Daisy got the results back for the glucose tolerance test, called me in and gave me protophane and act rapid or whatever. Yeah, I think that's what it was. And said, you're diabetic now.

[A]

Did they think that the vitamin D had any impact on it? Like, do you know what the result of his study was?

[B]

They think it held the onset off for about three and a half years.

[A]

No kidding?

[B]

Yeah. The last I heard, there was still some people who. And this was about 10 to 15 years ago, who were still taking it and hadn't developed it. So there's something in that vitamin D combination that looks like it held it off, but. Yeah.

[A]

So no kidding. If it worked for you, it worked for you for about three years. And then how old were you when you were finally diagnosed?

[B]

Thirteen months into my first year at high school. So I was 13, 14.

[A]

Did it come on very quickly when it came on, or was it slow?

[B]

I had no symptoms, nothing. I just went in for the yearly glucose tolerance test that I did as part of the research, and they diagnosed me that way. Obviously, my glucose tolerance was very bad. So it's like, here you go, here's your insulin. You're a diabetic now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And by that time, my parents and sisters had dropped off to zero. So I was the lucky one. And none of the rest of my family have it either.

[A]

So here's what I was able to find online for type 1 diabetes risk and prevention. The overall evidence has been weak or inconsistent. 2021 Mendelian randomized study found that lower vitamin D levels did not appear to have a substantial impact on type 1W risk. And population study, which argues against the vitamin D being a major cause lever, huh? Yeah. I don't know. There's a lot here about it if people are interested in reading. Like, you know, if you could look into. Into Bob Elliott's work. He passed away a few years ago.

[B]

It looks like 2020.

[A]

Yeah. My gosh. Did your sister ever end up getting diabetes?

[B]

Nope. I'm the only one in my entire family the lucky one.

[A]

Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

[B]

Thyroid, hypo? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

My mom had thyroid, so she had a. She took the other one. So she had the.

[A]

Your mom was Hyper?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Bulging eyes, goiter, stuff like that?

[B]

No, not quite that bad because she was on the medication, but.

[A]

Okay. I'm sorry. When you were diagnosed, you were in New Zealand at that point still?

[B]

Yes, I was.

[A]

What was it like growing up there with it?

[B]

I mean, it was in the 90s, so we didn't have all the great insulins we have now, and no pumps or anything. So I was different, obviously. And you don't want to be different as a teenager starting your first year at high school. Right. So. But I had a pretty, I suppose you can call it normal teenage life. Like, I even had friends and everything. Still played sports? Everything.

[A]

So nothing remarkable to you about growing up with it?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Not really. I do have a video of me having a bad low when I worked at the Subway, though, which is a public video on YouTube, if you ever want to have a look at that.

[A]

You made a video when you were really low?

[B]

Yeah. So the security camera in the subway recorded me having quite a bad low and I'm literally throwing the knife around and almost cutting the person working next to me. But.

[A]

Well, how old were you when that happened?

[B]

That would have been in my 20s.

[A]

In your 20s, were you working there or.

[B]

No, I was working there, yes.

[A]

Okay. And you just kind of got really low at it. Did you feel it coming on? Do you remember?

[B]

No, I didn't. Not at that stage.

[A]

No CGMS back then for you?

[B]

No, no CGMs.

[A]

How about now?

[B]

Yes. Omnipod Dash and G6.

[A]

Have you come close to knifing anybody since then?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. Why did you have a knife, Lars?

[B]

Because I was making someone submoid in the subway.

[A]

Oh, you were? It didn't have mayonnaise on it.

[B]

No, I was just cutting the bread. And you've obviously been to Subway. You see how fat the bread is in their sandwiches. It was like quarter of the size.

[A]

I want to admit to being confused for a second. I thought you were working down in the subway, and then I imagined you. And then I thought, is there a Subway in New Zealand? That was going to be my next step. And then I heard about the sandwich. I started picking through a little more. So you were literally making a Subway sandwich for somebody when it happened. You. That little knife with that little flexible blade they used to cut the bread with. Yep. That's the wrong knife to cut bread, by the way. I don't. I never understood why they have those in some way.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Is it true, Lars, that all of the meat is the same? It's just flavored differently and they call it different stuff.

[B]

I don't know about here. I haven't heard that. But I do know that it was actual ham and turkey.

[A]

That's good to hear. I want to say I have no actual knowledge of that. It's just a story that I used to hear going around that it was all kind of the same, like, meat, like based thing that was flavored differently. But I'm glad to hear it wasn't. How did you get the video?

[B]

I asked for it because I'd never seen myself have a low before, so. And the bosses were nice and said, yeah, sure, and grabbed it for me.

[A]

What was it like to see yourself like that?

[B]

It was interesting because obviously I'd never seen it because you don't see yourself going low as a diabetic. Right. You just have the low and then other people see it.

[A]

So did it make you manage any differently? Did it make you be more careful or look into different technology or anything? No, no. Yeah.

[B]

Because in New Zealand, we were limited to the government funded for most of the medications. But obviously a small population, not everything can be funded. So.

[A]

Okay, so you get what you get. Do you know what your A1Cs and your outcomes were like growing up with diabetes?

[B]

They were in the sevens and eights.

[A]

Okay. And what was your expectation for yourself? Was that what they were telling you to do?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, obviously we can't. We couldn't monitor it as well as we can now. So I tried the best I could because the insulin, it was like the proto vein, which was what, six hours as the long acting, which isn't really a long acting, but that's all we could get, really. And so. And then the ACT rapid, both made by novo. And so it was like really as best as you could do without wanting to test, like 25 times a day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But obviously you don't want, as a teen, you don't want to prick your finger and do any of that, so I tried my best.

[A]

Sounds like you did all right, actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were you low a lot or not really?

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

That's awesome. Do you feel lucky when you look back on it?

[B]

Well, considering the couple of lows I've had since I moved to Canada, yeah. I'm surprised I didn't have anything worse.

[A]

Okay, how long have you been in Canada?

[B]

Since 2014. So 12 years.

[A]

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[B]

did change because obviously I was able to access more and better stuff. But I had a couple of issues moving here like a month after moving here June I was looking for work was at one of the LRT stations like the light rail transit stations in Calgary and hadn't acclimatized because obviously Calgary is a bit higher elevation than all of New Zealand pretty much. Or where I lived in New Zealand anyway at sea level. So when I moved I hadn't Acclimatized yet and didn't recognize I was going low because of the higher elevation and had a bad low that EMS had to be called by someone else for. And someone stole my phone because it spilled out of my hand.

[A]

So can you imagine? Imagine seeing somebody having a seizure and stealing their phone. That happened in Canada. I thought Canadians were nice.

[B]

No, I did too.

[A]

What had you moved there? Was it for a lady?

[B]

For my daughter. She moved with her mom.

[A]

Oh, okay. And you followed along?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. I see.

[B]

So you wanted to be closer, to be old.

[A]

I see. So you're divorced? No, we weren't never married to begin with. I got you. No. Well, look at you being a good dad. Yeah. Yeah. How did that work out for you? Like, in hindsight, obviously following your daughter I imagine was great, but leaving country where you grew up and going somewhere else, was it a. A reasonable experience?

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was fine. I mean, I didn't know what to expect. I visited once and it seemed nice, but I moved knowing literally nobody apart from my daughter and her mum and obviously went together at that stage with her mum, but. And then I navigated my way around, found an endo, found how to get the insulin because obviously I could only bring a certain amount, and then went to. Went on better insulin than I had in New Zealand, like Lantus, and then moved to the pump, the omnipod.

[A]

And so I'm going to find out more about that in a second, but I want to go back to this before it becomes too late. I did a little more research about Bob Elliot because I didn't want to leave anybody with. I mean, it's a long time ago, but still I wanted it to be clear. So, like a simple breakdown was that Bob noticed that type 1 diabetes rates were different in different places and populations and he started asking what changed in the environment. One idea he had was sunlight, vitamin D, or maybe kids. Getting less sun made the immune system more likely to misfire and attack the insulin making cells. But even people close to the work later described vitamin D as at best a possible contributing factor, not a full explanation. From there, Elliot's attention seemed to have shifted more towards diet, especially cow's milk exposure and later the A1 beta casein hypothesis. The rough logic there was if migration or lifestyle Change raised type 1 risk, maybe something newly introduced in the diet was part of the trigger. That line of thinking became much more associated with him than the vitamin D did. So his idea really wasn't that vitamin D kind of cures type 1 diabetes like in quotes, you know, it was more like maybe environmental triggers made susceptible kids and vitamin D deficiencies might be a clue. Then, as he kept digging, he seems to have concluded that diet was a stronger lead than vitamin D alone. A look back from today, that's about where the evidence still leaves that vitamin D is biologically interesting, but it never turned into a clean, proven explanation for why type one happens. So it sounds like he had some theories and perfectly honest, like none of them panned out, but it caught your diabetes early enough that you didn't have to go into DKA or get sick or anything like that.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he was also, I don't know if you want to look up the diabetes cell. So it was encapsulated pig islet cells that were transplanted.

[A]

He got involved in that at some point.

[B]

Yeah, he pioneered the use of that.

[A]

Wow. Something about that popped up. It says here he was major figure in child health and diabetes related research in New Zealand. Helped found what became Cure Kids and was associated with the work. Yeah. That's interesting, huh? Look at that lifetime of effort. Hopefully it helps somebody.

[B]

Hopefully, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so when do you switch your management from. Sorry, give me the rough date from shots to a pump

[B]

about. About 2015.

[A]

Okay. About 10 years ago. Big difference for you?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Tell me about the experience.

[B]

Well, I mean, I. The pumps are funded in Alberta, so it was like, cool. I. By this time I'd met my now wife. I had a low where she had to call ems and I just woke up to two ambulance officers standing over me in bed. Those are always the fun ones, aren't they? And then she said, have you ever considered a pump? I hadn't. I'd heard about them. I thought I was managing it okay without one, but I said, yeah, okay, let's have a look. So I applied to the Alberta pump program and we actually went through and did it, got approved. And at that stage it was the Eros, the Omnipod before the dash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And because I'd heard horror stories about people pulling their tubing out of their pumps. And I didn't want to deal with that because I was working and working with computers. I didn't want to be under a desk and accidentally catch something, that sort of thing. So it's like, I'll just go on Omnipod, it'll be fine. And it has been my A1C's come down. My last one was actually 5.9.

[A]

Wow. Good for you. Congratulations. They didn't let you be around knives Anymore. After the last incident, you had to switch jobs?

[B]

No, I mean, I. That was a temporary role, just to.

[A]

I imagine. Does your wife let you use a knife in the house? Have you ever showed her the video?

[B]

I have, yes. So it's a public video on YouTube. So, I mean, if anyone wants to see it, they can look for. Diabetic goes low at Subway.

[A]

How many views does it have?

[B]

Well, I've got a post from two different channels, so it's got about. It's got a couple of hundred views, but, I mean, it could have a few more now.

[A]

So diabetic goes low at Subway. Is that what it's called?

[B]

Yeah, I shared the link in the chat here.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

If you. If that's easier for you.

[A]

Let me see.

[B]

There's no sound. So if you ask. Because there was no sound and the security cameras at that.

[A]

I see it here. I'm gonna watch. I'm just gonna watch it. All right, so there's a guy in a blue shirt, looks like.

[B]

So I'm the one in the black. You're helping the counter.

[A]

Yep. You're behind the counters, but. All right. Lars is putting on his plastic. Those little plastic terrible gloves that Subway gives the people. I don't know why they can't have a better glove than that. He's got his hands up. He's fighting with the gloves a little bit. It looks like you've never seen plastic gloves before in your entire life. There's a girl working with you. She's reaching in. Looks like she's getting the sandwich ready, too. Oh, she's pulling the meat out. I guess you're supposed to get the bread. This is interesting. It's in, like, stop. Like a little bit of stop motiony. Yeah. Like it moves and clicks and clicks and. Okay, here comes the bread. Lars is pulling the tray out, picks a loaf. Oh, he's going for the little wobbly. He got the paper down. The loaf's on top. He's got the little wobbly knife, fixes his glove one more time, starts the weird cutting process. They must teach you in Subway school about how to cut bread. That's got to be two days worth of training, I would imagine. You're picking at it. Okay. Your arm's flailing a little bit. There's another woman coming into the. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's hard to imagine. It's hard to. Like, the guy you're trying to help is laughing a little.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

There's a woman.

[B]

There's a regular customer.

[A]

So did he Think you were screwing around?

[B]

I wonder he didn't realize your arms

[A]

get weird to scarecrow over your head a couple of times.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. Like, you reach in a really strange. If you told me I was watching a video of somebody with CP trying to cut bread, like, I would probably believe that, like, you are fumbling with this thing. Like, all right, now you kind of, like, stop for a second. You're grabbing the counter and the girl tries to help you. And you're on the floor now. Okay, now the people who are being helped are like, oh, my God, why didn't I go to Burger King? And they're, wait, what's going on? Does she keep making the sandwich?

[B]

Customer asked for a new piece of bread, and then the girl who pulled me away made him a fresh sandwich.

[A]

But what was happening to you at that point?

[B]

I was in the bag drinking pop.

[A]

Oh, okay. You weren't having a seizure or anything like that?

[B]

No, I was still loose the dish. Loose enough to drink a soda anyway, so.

[A]

That was insane. I mean, that was. That was really interesting. Oh, my gosh, that girl must be super successful somewhere right now. She's like. She watched, like, the craziest thing happen in front of her. She's like, listen, let me, like, cut up another role and keep this thing moving. She went right back to it. I was lost. You know her name? Do you remember her name?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

That's a shame.

[B]

It was, as you can see, from the time it was a few years ago now in the bottom corner.

[A]

So, yeah, no, it look. I mean, it looks like it could have been 20 years ago. Right. Okay, so what makes you come on the podcast? What interests you in being on?

[B]

Well, I mean, I've had diabetes more than probably 80 of my life. So, I mean, if I can help educate people and help and with my

[A]

story, why not want to add to it? When you think about things you wish people with diabetes knew, what pops to mind? Like, what do you think are universal truths of it?

[B]

That it's not to be all and end all. You can have a pretty or a very normal life. My biggest thing is the education of non diabetics as well, because it's still as we know, it's still misunderstood. And movies and in TV series, the doctors actors will still, oh, they're low, so give them insulin. It's like, yeah, that will kill them, but sure, okay. Like, just the education around it where it can help people have longer fulfilled lives.

[A]

Do you wonder what else you're watching on TV that's not correct. You ever think of it that way? You know what I mean?

[B]

A lot of it is, you know,

[A]

the one thing you're aware of isn't right. I Wonder what the 25 things you're not aware of, how accurate they might be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So why does that bother you? Or, or why do you feel like that's important?

[B]

Because, I mean, I, Yeah, I've had some complications as of people with this condition have for 30 odd years. So, I mean, but if kids and people can live a pretty normal life with the technology we have now, if I can help with that in any way I want to. Like, I, I work in it, so I like helping people. It's what I do. So.

[A]

Yeah, go back for a second to like television and movies and etc. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why does it matter if they. I mean, I'm sure I have an answer too. But to you, why does it matter that it be correctly portrayed?

[B]

Because it means that people will more understand, I suppose, like non diabetics more understand that if they do see it in the real world and someone's on the ground, they don't go, oh, look for the insulin to give that to them. Like, if it's portrayed correctly, then if people need to help a diabetic in the real world, then they'll know and they may have watched the show, they've got a. Correct. Then maybe they'll know how to actually help the person correctly and not potentially

[A]

not do the opposite thing of what they need.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What is your experience with Lars, with people ever getting anything right? I don't understand. What do you think is going to, what do you think is going to happen here? I understand what you're saying and I, I have the same feelings. So it would be great if everybody understood, I don't know, that they remember the wrong thing any more than they would remember the correct thing if it was on tv.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's tough. I mean, but you uniquely have been in a situation where you've counted on a stranger to kind of know something. But did they ever. I mean, the girl yanked you away from the thing, but she, she abandoned you pretty quickly. If she understood diabetes, she would have went in the back with you, don't you think?

[B]

I think there was someone else in the back and the bosses had just stepped out, so they came back pretty soon after. But like, I think I was probably in the twos. Millimoles, I assume, because the. I was able to hold a drink enough to actually drink it myself without someone else helping.

[A]

Yeah. So hey, did you go back to work afterwards?

[B]

Yeah, once I was back up, I went straight back to work. And then the customer, the one, the male customer, came in the next day. I asked if I was okay, and I asked what happened.

[A]

And he eat one of those sandwiches every day, that guy?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Or every second day.

[A]

He's on that Subway diet. Thought he could lose some weight that way. I wonder.

[B]

I didn't talk to him that much, but I mean, he was a very care customer, so he was a nice guy.

[A]

So I hope this means something to you. My daughter's friend is a huge Subway aficionado and she has a. What I would call a rather deep relationship with the guy that makes her sandwich.

[B]

You do get to know them. Yes.

[A]

I feel like he'll be at her wedding one day. The way she talks about him.

[B]

Well, the funny thing is you like, when you find a doctor or when you find a dentist or when you find whatever other professional, and you're like plumber, electrician, if you find one you like, you stick with them because they make things the way you like them. So that's why they're technically called sandwich artists at Subway. So they make it in a particular way. And yeah, I had regular customers who like the way I made their sandwiches and they didn't want anyone else but me to make them.

[A]

That makes sense. Honestly, that really does sort of make sense. Okay, so you'd like people to be better informed in the public.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What else? Do you have feelings when you see younger people coming up with diabetes or parents of newly diagnosed kids? Like, do you ever have things where you want to just kind of say, oh, gosh, I wish you knew this?

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, Diabetes Canada is doing a modeling event across the country at the moment. And so from Halifax through to Vancouver, numerous cities in between. And so we're getting to walk down a Runway and model our pumps and everything, which is a pretty cool idea. And there's kids from like three up to, I think yesterday we had a. Like last year, sorry, we had an 80 year old who was modeling.

[A]

So have you been a part of this?

[B]

This will be the third year I've done it.

[A]

Okay, so you just like walk a Runway at an event?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And what kind of crowd is there? Supporters? Or do they find a way to get uninitiated in there? How do they do that?

[B]

But we find like, we. I know there's a couple of people who, like, we can have people who, like, volunteers who will do like, the introductions and highs and everything. A lot of people are friends and family of the models themselves, but, like, the tickets are open to anyone who wants to purchase them, so. And it's not just in Calgary where I am. It's in, like, Vancouver, Toronto, Halifax, Saskatchewan.

[A]

So fun. A fundraiser.

[B]

Yeah, it's a fundraiser, all right. And the idea behind it is to send kids to diabetes camps, which means that it gives the parents a break and often helps to give the kids a bit more independence. Often give the first shot or the first basal bolus themselves.

[A]

So meet other people with diabetes. What keeps you involved? Like, you don't have kids with diabetes, so what keeps you involved at this later age? Why do you feel like supporting this is valuable?

[B]

Well, I mean, I've had it for 30 years. If I can be like an older person and they can, newly diagnosed people can ask me questions. I'm always happy to because I've seen multiple. Pretty much all the more recent technology anyway, like from physical needles through to the insulin pump. So the technology's advances a lot more. I wish I had kind of had the insulin pump and CGM back when I was diagnosed. Blood sugar probably would have been better then, but we probably couldn't have miniaturized stuff enough to be able to do it back in the 90s.

[A]

So you said you have some complications now. What are they?

[B]

I've had a couple of issues with my eyes, so blood vessels in my eyes and that sort of stuff.

[A]

So have you had to. Had any treatment to it?

[B]

Yep. Injections in the eyes. The worst. The worst needle ever. Like, I hated those because they don't. They don't knock you out. They freeze your eyeball and then jab a needle in the eyeball while you're awake. So all you see is this thing and your peripheral vision coming into your eyeball. It's not fun.

[A]

How many times did you have to have the. The injection?

[B]

I've had it about five or six times.

[A]

Did it work?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So a reversal of your problem or did it just stop it?

[B]

It stopped it, yeah. And since my blood sugar and my A1C's come down to pretty much non diabetics A1C, now, it means that I haven't needed anything for the last, like, 18 months.

[A]

Is it just the technology that helped or have you been able to use, like, a lifetime of experience to apply it on the top of the technology?

[B]

I think it's a lifetime of experience, but it's also like being able to see your blood sugar in real time or close enough to real time, anyway. On the phone or a mobile device, it means that you can go, okay, this is what my blood sugar is doing. I'm fine for now.

[A]

Help you plan better. Being able to see it, I would imagine, right? Yep. And you're using Omnipod 5 now, though?

[B]

No, I'm still using the Dash.

[A]

You're still using the Dash? You're making your own decisions, making changes and everything. How did you find the podcast?

[B]

I've heard about it. I'm in a group. I try and give people education from my experience, and someone said you should apply to be on the podcast.

[A]

Okay, where were you telling it that?

[B]

Somebody saw that On Facebook or somewhere.

[A]

Do you know what Facebook group I've been?

[B]

So many diabetes ones, I don't remember, to be honest.

[A]

Are you in mine?

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

Don't be sorry. Are you in my group, The Juice Box Podcast 1? Yes, you are. Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you find Facebook pretty valuable, then?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, tell me about that. Why are you in so many different Facebook groups and what is that doing for you?

[B]

Well, it helps me. Like, if people have questions who are newly diagnosed and I have some experience what they're dealing with, which usually I do, it means that I can provide a bit more experience for them and help them succeed with their control and learning how to be a diabetic, looking after themselves with this condition that we all have as diabetics.

[A]

Did you have anybody helping you when you were growing up with it?

[B]

Mom and dad, kind of. I mean, because I was 13, I pretty much made all the decisions. Mom and dad, obviously, we started to carb count and everything, but after a few years, like, once I left high school, I pretty much just did it all myself.

[A]

On your own? So if you were having like a 7 or 8A 1C back then, that was considered reasonable and good, Right. Like, people would tell you, you're doing a good job, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At what point does it become obvious to you that better is. Is it tied to the technology? Like, does the idea that your A1C could be lower or more stable not arrive in the world until the technology arrives? Was there ever anyone telling you, I know we're just injecting here and this and this, you know, you could, I don't know, change your diet or increase your exercise or, you know, give yourself more insulin? Does any of that ever get spoken about?

[B]

It does a bit, yeah. It's just because, I mean, there's only so much you can do with some of the older insulins, because obviously of the length of time they Last, they're still running around in your body delivering the insulin as they need to. But I mean, it's. It was a lot more difficult to actually get good control because we. What was it? The act rapid started working. I think it was within half an hour and was gone within six. I found it difficult anyway to actually work out a good way of managing it because of that. Right. So it proved difficult. And no, no cgm. So you didn't know what your budget was doing unless you did a finger prick. And so it's like, well. And I didn't want to be doing that, like trying to learn at school. You don't want to look different. Yeah, People knew I was, but didn't want to be different. So I just tried to do my best so I could without being too different as a teen.

[A]

So what do you think would have changed most drastically about your upbringing if all that technology existed 20 years ago?

[B]

I would probably manage it a bit better and be able to keep it more stable. The big high and low swings, which I'm sure I had, I just didn't know I had them because I didn't have a CGM to see them. Right.

[A]

So does it freak you out that lizards that are running all over New Zealand are commonly kept pets in America and other places?

[B]

What do you mean lizard?

[A]

Like bearded dragons, for example. Aren't they from New Zealand? No, no, a bearded dragon is not from New Zealand. Or what about blue tongue skink, also not from New Zealand.

[B]

I don't know about the blue tongue skink. I know there are skinks in New Zealand. Like native ones. Yeah, but remember New Zealand split off from Gondwanaland so early that both of the birds have gone. Okay. There's no predators. Cool. We'll just stop flying.

[A]

What kind of pets did you have growing up? Did you have anything?

[B]

A cat.

[A]

A cat. I just always wonder, like, what it's like to go outside, see something running around in your lawn, and then look into another part of the world and see that people are like fanatically keeping them as pets. It would be like if I woke up one day and found out that people in New Zealand were keeping squirrels. I'd be like, that's a weird decision. They're everywhere here. But anyway, sorry. I thought I had something there I missed. For everyone listening, I apologize. I get it wrong sometimes. It's okay.

[B]

It's all good. I mean, if you want to go. New Zealand does have some very beautiful scenery and very different birds to what North America has. So, like the Kakapo is going, which is one of the. I think there's about 251 of them left in the world. They are going through a baby boom right now. So they don't breed every year. They only breed when a particular tree has a lot of fruit on it or berries on it, and then they produce a lot of chicks.

[A]

No kidding. Oh, so their production is attached to when their food is available?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's very cool. I had somebody on once, I think I'm trying to decide if I have an episode that's named after that bird. Is that possible? I'll have to figure that out later. Okay. When you move so far from home, are your parents older at that point? How is that separating from your sister and your parents?

[B]

I was in my early 30s, so my parents were a bit older then. I mean, I felt I needed to be in my daughter's life, like I said, and made the decision. I knew my parents would try and talk me out of it. So I didn't tell them until after I booked the tickets, had the visa, had everything done.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

And then told him, well, that's interesting.

[A]

I would have made the same decision. I was just wondering how you handle. You know, that's a pretty far way to move, so.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

I was confident to be able to find all the medication and the diabetes stuff I needed. So it's like, well, okay, well, throw caution to the wind and go.

[A]

So that was kind of the rest of my question there was, do you leave with enough to keep you going for a while, or do you plan ahead for how to get signed up to get medication when you get there? Like, how did you make that leap?

[B]

I had no plan. I. Literally the only plan I had was I needed to be close to my daughter. So I left with 23 kilos of clothes. Sorry, I can't do that. Conversion my head to pounds. But that's the standard international flight.

[A]

Yeah. About 46, 50 pounds, something like that, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. That's pretty much all I bought to Canada, so.

[A]

Wow. If I asked my wife to leave this house with one suitcase full of clothing and never come back, I don't even know what would happen. We can't seem to go away for four days with one of those suitcases without it being overweight.

[B]

Yeah. And then I. I had enough insulin to last me. I think it was about three or four months.

[A]

Okay. And what did you do to, like. Do you go to, like, an office, a doctor's office, to the government? How do you get set up once you get to Canada.

[B]

Pretty much had the idea about moving, well, at least a year and a half before I actually did. And by that time, I met some Facebook groups, some Canadians, who were actually able to give me a bit of advice on how to find a doctor and that sort of thing. And so I followed their advice, actually found one. And then I got referred to an endocrinologist and was able to get all the medication.

[A]

Isn't that terrific? And so, seriously, the Internet and being able to just reach out to a group of people and say, I need help. I don't know what to do. Get some advice and pick through it then and make a decision. It's really fantastic. Hold on a second. Excuse me. Sorry. I came up here without my drink today, messing me up. How are we doing? What were your expectations like for this? And how do you feel like this is going so far? And, you know, are we missing anything?

[B]

I don't think we're missing anything. I mean, I. I've come out of my shell a bit more since moving here, so I've been able to. I was probably very introverted in New Zealand. Since I moved here, I've become a lot more extroverted, and hence doing the modeling. I've spoken at a conference, which I never thought I'd do back in New Zealand. So, I mean, I have no issues with how we're doing.

[A]

So what do you think? Just the experience of being out on your own kind of opened you up.

[B]

And the support from my wife.

[A]

Yeah. Since you've been. And how long have you been married?

[B]

10 years.

[A]

10 years. Okay. And just the one child from the previous relationship?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you worry about your child getting diabetes? No.

[B]

She hasn't had any. Any potential symptoms or anything, like, I do a little bit in the back of my mind, but, I mean, I'm literally the only one in my family. No cousins, no aunts, uncles, and I have a big family. I've probably got probably 30 cousins on both mom and dad's side. So.

[A]

Yeah. How about that thyroid thing? Is that a problem throughout your family? No, no. Just you and your mom?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you have symptoms from that, or do you feel like that's pretty well managed?

[B]

I feel it's pretty well managed. I'm under the lowest possible dose I can be, so.

[A]

Do you ever have, like, brittle nails, lose hair, uneven temper?

[B]

A little bit of an uneven temper sometimes.

[A]

But do you know what your TSH level is when they test your thyroid?

[B]

The last one, I just got it done with my A1C, it was well within the normal range.

[A]

Do you know what that means, though, for the number? Because the range is pretty wide. That's why I asked.

[B]

I think it was like four or something. I'd have to look up the range.

[A]

In your own time, obviously. I'm not asking you to do it now. I would tell you to Check out episode 413 of the podcast and then see if maybe you don't wish that maybe somebody could manage that. Number under two.

[B]

Two seems low.

[A]

Why is that? What do you know about that?

[B]

Well, I mean. And yes, I don't know how it is in the U.S. but I think here in Canada, I think two would be too low.

[A]

So I would ask you to listen to episode 413 and see if you didn't change your mind about that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. So to go over it just briefly, the scale goes from like 0 to 10 on the testing, and the green part, you know, is pretty far in the middle. I would tell you that if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism, you know, or any kind of impacts from it, and your TSH is above 2, it probably indicates that you could use a little more medication. I can pull up a couple of symptoms for you. Let's see if you have any of them. So we went over a couple a second ago, but I'm just going to go through a list so I don't miss anything. Sorry, I'm clicking on stuff. All right. Tired or low energy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes feeling cold more than usual? No. Weight gain?

[B]

No.

[A]

Dry skin? Sometimes constipation? No. Poopy?

[B]

No.

[A]

No Hair thinning or hair loss?

[B]

Not that I've noticed.

[A]

So you'd see it in the drain. Depression or low mood?

[B]

Maybe sometimes. But then, I mean, you're dealing with diabetes, so that's kind of common, isn't it?

[A]

So, yeah. Slower thinking, memory trouble, brain fog? Sometimes I think muscle aches, weakness, Joint stiffness?

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

You ever have heavy or irregular periods? I'm just kidding, Lars. But no, there's others. Listen, what I would tell you is I talk to a lot of people, and if you're having a few of those symptoms, I would tell you to consider a 4 TSH as being too high, and then go ahead and take a look at what might happen if they just put that dose up a tiny bit, got you down a little lower.

[B]

Sorry. Okay. I was completely wrong.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Mine's 0.84.

[A]

Oh, Jesus. Well, then we just wasted a lot of time. Yours is fine and you're just a little large. That's okay.

[B]

Yeah, sorry.

[A]

No different than anybody else, so that's fine. Don't be sorry. I'm glad you looked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, that's awesome. Well then. Well, still other people listening might have heard and gotten the idea. What do you look forward to with diabetes management? Are you looking forward to trying an algorithm or anything of the sort?

[B]

Well, I'm excited about the, like the stem and islet cell transplant trials happening at the moment. I think they're being, and this is just my personal opinion, obviously. I think calling them a cure is too soon to do that because we don't know what's going to happen in five years. But yeah, calling them a cure is too soon. And I don't think we're going to have a cure for diabetes until we know what causes it.

[A]

What would you consider a cure to be? Like, what would the outcome have to be for you to consider yourself cured?

[B]

Not have to have anything like no anti regation drugs, no.

[A]

Somebody finds a switch inside and shuts it off, that kind of thing, it's just over?

[B]

Pretty much, yeah.

[A]

But would you take the alternative? I mean, I guess you're referring to that Eladon trial right now, the one out of Chicago.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And so if somebody could inject some stem cells into your liver and give you a fusion every 21 days, you wouldn't call that cured? What would you call it?

[B]

Positive.

[A]

Positive.

[B]

Because. Yes. Yeah, because to me it's not a cure because you're still. They're still taking anti regression drugs.

[A]

Okay, but you don't have type 1 diabetes anymore. Well, you do, but you don't have to take insulin anymore.

[B]

Yes, but see, is it really a cure though? Because you're still taking the anti regression drugs. If you stop those, what happens? Not that they're probably going to.

[A]

I understand what you're saying. I'm asking you, why do you care? Like, what's the difference if you don't have to take the insulin anymore, you don't have any of the impacts of high and low blood sugars. I mean, obviously you've traded one kind of management system for another. But I mean, would you do it? I guess is my question. If somebody came up to you and said, hey, here you go, you can do it, would you?

[B]

Probably not at the moment. Not until there's been further research done.

[A]

Because you'd want to see if it was okay long term.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Let me say this. Pretend that it is. It works fine. It's not going to hurt you Blah, blah, blah. Would you do that and would you consider that like a good outcome or do you think you'd be irritated that you just were having to do something else potentially?

[B]

I would do it. I mean, it would make it make life easier, obviously. But I mean, right now anyway, with the technology I have, it's pretty easy to manage for me anyway, I'm not having a huge amount of insulin.

[A]

Okay. It's interesting to listen to you try to pick through it in your own head because, you know, obviously I understand what you mean by a cure. Cure would be like, snap your fingers, it doesn't exist anymore, I'm cured. That's that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. I don't think that's happening anytime soon either. And so if having some cells injected into your liver, and then right now it's an infusion every 21 days, I don't know if they'll be able to change how that works or not. I'm actually interviewing the doctor, the lead researcher on this, in about a week. Okay, there you go. Like get once a month you go into a doctor's office and they put you on an infusion and an hour later you walk out and there's no change. You don't get sick afterwards, you don't feel weird or anything like that. And for the next month, you just do not have to take insulin. You can eat, everything works the way you expect it to work. And then, I don't know, five years from now, they figure out how to turn that into an at home injection or a pill or something like that. I'm trying to figure out if that would feel positive to you.

[B]

It would. Like, yeah, the whole thing is positive because it's. From my way of thinking, it's probably the precursor to a full blown cure. Like if they keep working along these lines, then I'm sure at some stage we will be able to have a cure.

[A]

Something else will come. You won't though. Let's just pretend you get this one and you're done. You don't get another one. So, like, I mean, is that a good way to make it through the rest of your life, do you think? 12 infusions a year, no diabetes. It's just interesting to listen to people after they've lived with it for a while. Because what I hear from you is that you're like, listen, it's not that big of a deal to have diabetes.

[B]

Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it is, yeah, if you have bad lows and everything. But I mean, with the technology we have now, and yes, obviously it's different here than it is in Canada with insurance, and we won't get into all that. But, I mean, I. All my stuff's funded, so I don't have to worry about the costs of it. Like, literally everything's heavy. I'm on. And so I'm sitting here talking to you with my phone on the desk, looking at my blood sugar and going, okay, it's good. I don't have to worry about it. I can just talk and not. Not have any of the issues and.

[A]

Okay, no, I mean, listen, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I'm just wondering how you feel about it. Okay, you brought that up because you think what, the people are running around maybe being a little too, what, Blase about calling it a cure and stuff like that.

[B]

Well, I think it's too soon to call it a cure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's a positive step towards one, in my opinion, but potentially not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Depending on your definition of cure. To me, it's not a cure.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, no. I hear what you're saying. I would tell you that where it creates a little bit of worry for me would be the idea that people could hear that and think, oh, they're going to have it cured pretty soon, so I don't really have to take as good care of myself. Yeah, I get a little worried about that. Like, oh, you know, my blood sugar is 185. I'd push it down, but next year I'm going to be getting those stem cells, so it'll all be okay. That part gets me. I also would tell you I don't like the way it feels like it's being used as clickbait by diabetes influencers. I don't like that very much.

[B]

No.

[A]

So if you need clicks, I understand. If it's the way you make a living or you're trying to turn it into something I understand, but by telling people, like, oh, my God, I'm cured, or there's a lady that's cured over here, a guy over here that's cured, he has a he. Like, you know, there's 10, 12 of them at this point who are in this study. I'm sure they'll be adding more if they haven't already. And I don't know, but that's, you know, under 20 people having this experience of, you know, what, 2 million people who have it. So it's not like bubblegum can't just get it anywhere and then getting people excited. And I just think It's, I don't know, like, I don't know if I'm doing a good job of explaining what I don't like about it.

[B]

But I, yeah, I totally agree. Because it's still too early in the research into it to say, yes, it's a cure. Because like you said, there's only been 10 to 12 people who have had this infusion done. So it's like. Well, yeah, and it's positive for them that they've not on insulin anymore and that their body is producing it. But it's like it's still way, way, way, in my opinion, way, way, way too early to call it anywhere close to a cure because there's. They've just come off injected insulin.

[A]

Yeah. Also if you just take the word cure out of the conversation, it's also not even a prescribed treatment yet.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. It's a trial. You're not even saying to everybody, forget curing you, but I can shut off your need to take man made insulin for a while, call it that for a second, you know, come on over to the office and grab some. That isn't a day away. You know, I don't know how far away it is. I'm going to find out when I talk to the person. But I mean my guess would be that if the trial was branded a full on success and the FDA said absolutely, go ahead and do this, that in itself is going to take years. And then after that, what then years more to get it set up. So, you know, you tell me maybe 10 years from now it'll be okay, you know, if this all works out like that. I pointed out, and would continue to point out that I had one of the people on, who's had the experience of being through the trial. All sound very positive to me. But you know, they had only had this process in place for six weeks at that point and I don't know, I just, I'm glad for them and I think they should tell their story a million percent. I think people should hear it. I really do get worried about that idea of like it's happening right now, you know, it's just not the case. No, it's not happening right now.

[B]

And we all know how long like research takes. A while. Like it does. Yeah, that's why it's research. It's not like, oh look, we can flick a switch, like light switch and here we go. Everyone in the world is, it's available to.

[A]

There's also an intake questionnaire and a lot of testing that gets done before you even get put in the trial. So my indication there would be that there might have been plenty of people who said, I'd love to be in the trial, who got told, well, you're not right for the trial. So.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. They're trying to keep it very specific to people I think that they imagine it's going to work with, which makes sense to me when you got this sort of by Advil Large, you don't have to take a questionnaire first and run the risk of the. The Advil not being for you. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. So let's get it to the point where, oh no, I have diabetes. I call the guy and then, you know, they set me up, bring me in for, I don't know, whatever they're going to do and then I don't have it anymore, then that's functional to me. So.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Anyway, what else you got here, man? Anything we missed? Anything we didn't talk about something? I didn't ask you about anything at all.

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

We did okay.

[B]

Yeah, we did okay.

[A]

Your first podcast.

[B]

Hopefully mine was okay. Yeah, my first.

[A]

Were you nervous at all?

[B]

No.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Like I said, I've spoken at a conference last year and just spoke off the cuff and was able to speak well, so.

[A]

Yeah, no, you're doing a great job. It's not a. Yeah, it's just interesting. I don't often get people who don't like listen to the podcast to be on it, which is really nice for me and I appreciate. I wish more people would do that. I don't know how to. It's hard to get in touch with people who don't know about the podcast, so.

[B]

I know about it. I just haven't. You're a bitch to.

[A]

You're busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. So you got a 17 year old, is it a daughter? You're 17 year old, a daughter. There's a lot of work right there and the boys become more work just slightly after that. And then. And you're married and there's a lady who's the mom of your daughter. There's a lot of things going on with you, I would imagine. You got a job, you got diabetes, stuff happened. I understand. What do you do for like entertainment? Do you have a lot of inyear entertainment in being an IT or no, you're not able to.

[B]

Yeah, I do. I just have to try and keep up with all the advances in IT and AI and quantum computing and everything.

[A]

What kind of job do you have? What do you do?

[B]

I'm a system admin.

[A]

Are you using AI very much yet?

[B]

For some things, yes. It still gets it wrong. So don't put all your eggs in the basket and say, yes, AI is perfect. It's not. It will still make mistakes. So just double check it is my advice.

[A]

You found some uses for it?

[B]

Yes, I found some uses for it.

[A]

So very nice.

[B]

It's good for. If you're like doing research into a trip and stuff, it's good to just say, hey, if I've done this research, can you confirm that this is good? And it's like, Yep, takes a look for it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Quick answers to questions you have and that sort of thing.

[A]

So I do like asking it to like quality check something or, you know, can you fact check this for me? Give me some. Some backup I can read and see if I agree with the fact checking, that kind of stuff. I. It helps me a lot with my website, I'll say that. And yeah, you know, that kind of stuff, like things I could never have. I would have not known how to code on my own. I can make now much easier. It's been helping me with transcripts and stuff like that. It's been pretty valuable, honestly. Okay. All right. Well, Lars, I appreciate you doing this with me very much.

[B]

Thank you for the time.

[A]

No, it's my pleasure. Do you think you'll ever move back to New Zealand or do you think you're a Canadian now?

[B]

Potentially, I would ideally love to just have endless summers, but because of New Zealand's smaller population and I still keep in touch with some people I knew in New Zealand and the insulin here that I'm using, I can't get down there. So I would have to go to a older generation, which I'm not so fond of doing.

[A]

That's interesting. Do you think your wife would move?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, we would love an endless summers, so.

[A]

I would too. Yeah. I hate the cold. I'm done with it, perfectly honest with you. What part of Canada are you in?

[B]

In Alberta. So we get minus 40.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta leave. That seems wrong to me.

[B]

Times.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just get a bunch of insulin. Take it with you. See. See how long you make it last. Yeah. Lars, thank you. I really appreciate this, man. It's been good talking to you.

[B]

No worries. Thanks, Scott.

[A]

Hold on one second for me. Okay. This episode was sponsored by Touched by Type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram and give them a follow and then head to touchedbytype1.org where you're going to learn all about their programs and resources for people with type 1 diabetes. I'd like to thank the Eversense365 for sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box Podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14 days, you want the Eversense CGM. Eversensecgm.com JuiceBox 1 Year 1 CGM the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Moby with Con Control IQ [e-mail] Juicebox There are links in the show notes and [e-mail] thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? All right, let's get down to it. You want the management stuff from the podcast. You don't care about all this chitting and chatting with other people. Juicebox podcast.com lists they are downloadable, easy to read. Every series, every episode, they're all numbered. Makes it super simple for you to go right into that search feature in your audio app. Type Juice Box 1795 to find episode 1795. JuiceBox podcast.com lists if you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording Listen, truth be told, I'm like 20% smarter. When Rob edits me, he takes out all the like gaps of time. And when I go and stuff like that and it just, I don't know, man. Like I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired [e-mail].