#1896 Mean as a Snake

Summary

Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes

Episode #1896 "Mean as a Snake"

Host: Scott Benner
Guest: Allie (mom of a teen with Type 1 diabetes)
Release Date: July 7, 2026

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode dives deep into the realities of parenting a fiercely independent teenage girl living with Type 1 diabetes, exploring the emotional and practical challenges of supporting a child who chooses to manage their diabetes “her own way”—specifically, without diabetes technology like CGMs. Allie’s story highlights the complexity of balancing health, autonomy, privacy, and mental well-being during adolescence, with Scott’s signature blend of humor and sincerity guiding the discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Background & Introduction

• Allie is a pharmacist and mother of two children (daughter, 17, son, 14), married 21 years, living in the southern US.
• Their daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 13, after already dealing with the skin condition Hidradenitis Suppurativa (HS).
• The initial discussion is peppered with humor as Scott helps Allie get comfortable sharing her story (07:00–09:00).

Quote:
"I bring you voices who don’t have a megaphone. They need a minute to calm down before we start."
— Scott, (07:17)

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2. The Path to Diagnosis

• Clues to Diagnosis: Increased thirst after basketball season, frequent nighttime urination (initially noticed by her younger brother sleeping in her room), and multiple bathroom trips during vacation (21:26–22:28).
• Allie, being a pharmacist, quickly suspected diabetes and confirmed it with a glucometer (blood sugar >300).
• Hospitalization and basic diabetes education followed; her daughter left with insulin pens and a Dexcom G6.

Quote:
"...she asked for her big water bottle again. That was clue number one."
— Allie, (21:35)

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3. Managing More than Diabetes: Hidradenitis Suppurativa

• Allie’s daughter’s first major medical struggle was HS, misdiagnosed at first as razor burn. Eventually, Allie advocates for the correct diagnosis (13:05–14:51).
• HS management included minor procedures and antibiotics; the condition has a genetic link to her father.

Quote:
"I figured out what it was just from Dr. Google and went into the third dermatologist and told her my suspicions and she agreed."
— Allie, (13:38)

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4. Teen Personality and Independence

• Daughter described as fiercely independent (“mean as a snake”), private, and not very social—has only a small friend group, only 2 friends know she has diabetes (28:53–30:06).
• She doesn’t want to be seen as different or pitied due to diabetes.
• Family dynamic includes humor and frankness about the challenges of parenting teenagers.

Quote:
"She’s been her own person since she was born. She’s always been very independent, had her own thoughts about things. She didn’t care that’s the standard of care. She didn’t care one bit."
— Allie, (25:47)

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5. Rejection of Diabetes Technology: Managing “Without Tech”

• After initial use, daughter permanently went off CGM after a beach trip three months post-diagnosis—prefers fingersticks (about 10–12 a day, 400 strips/month) (25:11–25:27).
• Allie: “I thought… she’ll be super annoyed with finger sticks. She’ll go right back to her sensor. It never happened.” (25:11)
• Despite Allie’s concerns, her daughter maintains excellent A1Cs (high 5s to low 6s), but Allie worries about lows that aren’t caught early without a CGM (26:16–27:42).
• Daughter manages dosing, logs, and care almost entirely on her own.
• Attempts to persuade her daughter to use CGM are met with resistance, but Allie is candid about respecting autonomy to avoid outright rebellion.

Quote:
"You can’t force somebody to do something at all about anything ever. It’s probably a waste of your goddamn time to even think about it."
— Scott, (32:49)

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6. Technology, Autonomy, and Parent-Teen Relationships

• Allie wants her daughter to experience “mistakes” while still at home, so she knows how to handle problems later (72:02–72:12).
• Allie is cautiously optimistic as her daughter agrees to consider the Eversense 365 CGM when she goes to college (“at least wear it at night”).
• Allie is in the process of reapplying for CGM/Afrezza approval now that her daughter is about to turn 18.
• Both discuss the emotional charge around “nagging,” control, and letting teens find their own road—even when it’s imperfect.

Quote:
"I have some fear about her rebelling if I did make her wear the CGM. I could totally see her just turning me off and not letting me follow."
— Allie, (35:00–35:20)

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7. Broader Reflections: Parenting, Growing Up, Technology, and Control

• The hosts reflect on generational change—growing up pre-internet, the impact of social media and AI, and how parenting today’s youth is different (74:10–79:20).
• Humor and humility abound; both acknowledge the limits of control and the inevitability of parental imperfection.
• Real-world pharmacy anecdotes—people running out of crucial medications, personal responsibility for health, and the limits of what caretakers can enforce (49:15–50:34).

Quote:
"You can be a perfect parent… It might go great, it might not go great, might go somewhere in the middle. But you can lay out a path, be supportive, be understanding, and then step back and say, if you need me, I’m right here."
— Scott, (71:54)

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8. The Value of Community and Diverse Stories

• Allie found the podcast after a true crime binge, drawn in by the value of shared stories.
• She listens for both technical management tips (e.g., using R insulin for low-carb days) and for support in hearing varied experiences.
• She wants to “give back” by sharing her story for other parents of fiercely private, tech-resistant teens.

Quote:
"…because I’ve learned so much from hearing other people’s stories, I just wanted to, you know, be on and contribute."
— Allie, (79:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On rebellion:
  "She’s been mean as a snake for quite some time. They’re just different personalities."
  — Allie, (19:42)
• On parental limits:
  "People change when they change, if they change. That’s it. You cannot force somebody to do something at all about anything ever."
  — Scott, (32:54)
• On technology and independence:
  "I have some fear about her rebelling if I did make her wear the CGM… this is just gonna spin out of control…"
  — Allie & Scott, (35:00–36:28)
• On accepting imperfection:
  "If I knew what I know now… I’d be by myself in the woods. I just want you to know. Happy as a clam."
  — Scott, (45:14)
• On seeking information:
  "I’m just the kind of person who wants to know everything about a thing… there’s so much information, and then the hormones… I just wanted to get all the information I could, so that I could, you know, and I do share it with her in little pieces."
  — Allie, (62:03–62:55)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Banter/Humor on Parenting Flaws: 04:10–05:35
• Diagnosis Red Flags: 21:26–22:28
• HS Misdiagnosis & Mom-Driven Advocacy: 13:05–14:51
• Teen’s Permanent CGM Refusal: 25:11–25:47
• Fingersticks Over Technology: 25:11–27:42
• Managing Diabetes Privately (Friend Disclosure): 28:53–30:06
• Parental Limits (You Can't Force Change): 32:49–34:36
• Pharmacy Frustration Stories: 49:15–50:34
• Reflections on Growth, Technology, and the Future: 74:10–79:20
• Allie’s Motivation for Sharing: 79:51

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Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, frank, humorous, and at times irreverent, trading between laughter and authentic frustration. Scott's sarcastic, self-deprecating style puts Allie at ease but doesn't shy away from tough emotional truths about chronic illness and growing up.

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Summary Takeaways

• Parenting a teen with diabetes means respecting autonomy and picking battles. Some kids will not comply with conventional tech solutions (like CGMs), even if it seems “logical” or safer to adults.
• Excellent glycemic results are possible with traditional tools, but at the cost of missed context and more frequent lows. Each family must weigh safety, privacy, and mental health in their own context.
• Letting go—while still “bugging” now and then—is sometimes the most supportive path a parent can take.
• Community stories matter: Knowledge, solidarity, and new ideas come from hearing the many ways families adapt and cope—even (or especially) when that includes imperfection.

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For more personal stories and practical diabetes management tips, visit JuiceboxPodcast.com.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.

[B]

Hey, this is Allie and I am the mom of a type 1.

[A]

Nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. If you're new to type 1 diabetes, begin with the Bold Beginnings series from the podcast. Don't take my word for it. Listen to what reviewers have said. Bold Beginnings is the best first step. I learned more in those episodes than anywhere else. This is when everything finally clicked. People say it takes the stress out of the early days and replaces it with clarity. They tell me this should come with the diagnosis packet that I got at the hospital, and after they listen, they recommend it to everyone who's struggling. It's straightforward, practical and easy to listen to. Bold Beginnings gives you the basics in a way that actually makes sense.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

This episode is sponsored by the Tandem Moby system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ plus Technology. Tandemoby has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages 2 and up. Learn more and get started [e-mail] Juice Box. The podcast is also sponsored today by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by type 1. Please take a moment to learn more about [e-mail] on Facebook and Instagram touchedbytype1.org check out their many programs, their annual conference awareness campaign, their D Box program, Dancing for Diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night, and so much more. Top touchedbytype1.org you're looking to help or you want to see people helping people with type 1 you want touchedbytype1.org I'd like to thank the Eversense365 for sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box Podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once

[C]

a year and not every 14 days,

[A]

you want the Eversense CGM Eversensecgm.com Juicebox1 Year 1 CGM hey, this is Allie

[B]

and I am the mom of a Type one.

[C]

Excellent. And Allie, we're going to stay a little vague today. We're not going to say if your Type one is a girl or a boy, is that right?

[B]

But we can say she's a girl.

[C]

We can.

[B]

Because otherwise I won't know how to refer to her.

[C]

Oh, I wouldn't either. So I would have just talked around it forever, the way I do. When. Where was I? This weekend I was at a Touch by Type 1 event in Atlanta. And Elizabeth, who is the founder and she runs the whole thing with a bunch of great people. But I think she saw me not know someone's name. And she looked, she looked me in the face and she knew I was talking around the person's name. And I thought, oh, I got caught. I am, I am not good with names. I wish I could tell a story right now, but a person, I know a person will hear it. I don't want them to be offended, but like I said, it's possible. I've known you for years and when I look you in the face, I just think, oh, there's that person. I have all the memories of our relationship, but I don't know your goddamn name. And if somebody asked me about you in this scenario, I could probably tell 10, 11 heartwarming stories that I'm really attached to. Bad with names. I don't know what that's about exactly, but.

[B]

Okay, we all have to have a flaw.

[C]

Oh, but you think that's my only flaw?

[B]

No, I listen to the show.

[C]

Yeah, it's a punch list. I got a punch list somewhere. Things that need to get fixed. But I said to my wife the other day, I was like, Look, I'm 54. I think it's too late. I've done pretty well, like elevating myself out of the shitstorm I was born into. I think, I think I'm good now. I'm just going to enjoy the rest of it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think I'm going to murder anybody or anything like that. I think this is good. I'm just going to, I'm just going to ride this part out. And my wife says to me, I swear to God, it was an emotional moment we were having together. It's none of your business. Right. We tell you more about it and, and, and by the way, that's from a guy who three weeks ago told an hour long story about bleeding from his ass. So I just, maybe I will tell you, but we were talking about parenting and you know, and I don't know how many of you listening have children who are older, but one day, in case you're not aware of this, now, they will figure out everything that's wrong with you and then tell you about

[A]

it until you die.

[B]

So I can't wait.

[C]

It's super fun and it leads to a lot of conversations where we say things like, well, they're a problem or why did we do this? Or do you remember when we had money and Used to have sex all the time. Why did we stop doing that?

[A]

Never.

[C]

Anyway, point being is that I made this declaration about, like, I've done enough. You know what I mean? Like, I've come pretty far out of the muck. I'm proud of myself. And she goes, you should never stop working on yourself. She wasn't talking to me. She tried to be colloquial about it, like people should, and then I was like, fine. And I just looked back at her and I said, you're not perfect either, you know? Then we went upon our merry way. Okay, now what do we want to know about you? How many kids in total do you have?

[B]

I have two kids. My daughter is 17. My son is 14.

[C]

Okay, and you married or did you get rid of that man that you let be with you to make those babies?

[B]

He is still around.

[C]

Look at you. What a men you are. You don't know that word. I can tell by your accent. But not the point. That's very nice.

[B]

My accent's already showing.

[C]

Already showing. You know, word one, it's out. You know what I mean? Like, I'm on my way to Florida now to Blake sit in the front yard with you or wherever it is you live. That's similar to that. So I. Don't tell me. Just let it be a surprise. So how long you been married?

[B]

This is our 21st year.

[C]

Oh, congratulations. That's lovely.

[B]

Thanks.

[C]

Never been in jail, no battery, nothing like that?

[B]

Not yet.

[C]

Pretty great. Not yet. There's a smart answer from a person who's been married for two decades, by the way, for those of you online who say the podcast is full of too much fluff, this is the part where I make Ally comfortable because she's never been recorded before. And then you get online and go, it's so full of fluff. Hey, can I just say something to these people? Ali and I don't know you yet, so this is probably you people. Okay, like, you come make a podcast about type one. How about, you're welcome, just say thank you. Okay, you mother. Sorry.

[B]

Well, now I'm loosened up.

[C]

It's like five people, Ally. But like, I just, you know, like, hey, what if you step back one day and said, I have type 1 diabetes or my kid does, and there's this guy that sits down every day of his natural life for 12 years. And as a conversation with somebody attached to type 1 diabetes, so I can listen to it, maybe I won't get online and say, I don't like the fluff part of the Podcast. You don't like the fluff, make your own goddamn podcast. Leave me alone. Meanwhile, this is my last part. This is my last thought on this. Ally's not used to being interviewed. Like, I bring you voices who don't have a megaphone. They need a minute to calm down before we start. I don't know how you don't see you have mental health issues. If you're online telling me that my thing. Anyway, you're all lovely.

[A]

I love.

[C]

Please don't. Please don't unsubscribe. Just keep listening. Just leave me alone. That's all I want to say. I already have a wife and a daughter. I don't need the rest of you. Okay, that. That's what I'm getting at. Okay, so this kid, how old is it when it's diagnosed it. How old is she when she's diagnosed?

[B]

So she's. She was 13. Almost 14. Okay. Right before her birthday.

[C]

This is just maybe three years ago then, right? Not long.

[B]

Well, four. Yeah.

[C]

Okay. Is there any other autoimmune in your family? Do you have hypothyroidism? I'm gonna say yeah, you have a deeper voice. But just go ahead and tell me the truth.

[A]

This episode is sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. And today I'm gonna tell you about Tandem's newest pump and algorithm. The Tandem MOBI system with Control IQ technology features Autobolus which can cover missed meal boluses and help prevent hyperglycemia. It has a dedicated sleep activity setting and is controlled from your personal iPhone. Tandem will help you to check your benefits today through my link tandemdiabetes.com juicebox this is going to help you to get started with Tandem's smallest pump yet that's powered by its best algorithm ever. Control IQ technology helps to keep blood sugars in range by predicting glucose levels 30 minutes ahead and it adjusts insulin accordingly. You can wear the tandemoby in a number of ways. Wear it on body with a patch like adhesive sleeve that is sold separately. Clip it discreetly to your clothing or slip it into your pocket head. Now to my link tandemdiabetes.com juicebox to check out your benefits and get started today. Today's episode is sponsored by a long term cgm. This going to help you to stay on top of your glucose readings. The Eversense 365. I'm talking of course about the world's first and only CGM that lasts for one year. One year, one CGM. Are you tired of those other CGMs? The ones that give you all those problems that you didn't expect. Knocking them off. False alerts, not lasting as long as they're supposed to. If you're tired of those constant frustrations, use my link eversensecgm.com juicebox to learn more about the Eversense 365. Some of you may be able to experience the Eversense 365 for as low as $199 for a full year. At my link you'll find those details and can learn about eligibility eversense cgm.com juicebox Check it out.

[B]

No, I so my family. This is what my mom told her oncologist or the doctor that diagnosed her with ovarian cancer. She said, we are heart attack and stroke people. There's no way I can have cancer. All of my relatives just dropped dead. Now my husband's family has some autoimmune. He has a first cousin that's a type one.

[C]

We found the person we can blame to alleviate our guilt. This is awesome.

[B]

Oh, it's definitely him.

[C]

Good for you. That's nice. It probably really was lightning for you. It wasn't me. You by the way, your mom. We're heart attack and stroke people. I don't have cancer. I'm gonna die of a heart attack. What are you even talking about?

[B]

Yeah, yep, she's. She's still kicking with her ovarian cancer too.

[A]

Really?

[C]

How old was she when she was diagnosed?

[B]

Let's see, she is 79 now and that's was probably six years ago.

[C]

Oh wow. Can you hear the type A people listening going Stop pivoting. Stick to the kids diagnosis story again. Make your own podcast. Okay?

[B]

I learned so much stuff from your podcast just from stuff that doesn't even have to do with what you're talking about.

[C]

Those people who talk like that, they're boring and they would make boring podcasts that nobody listened to, but they just don't realize it about themselves. Go to therapy. Okay. Now so your daughter was diagnosed three years ago. You're there is autoimmune on your husband's side. His would you say cousin has a type one?

[B]

Right?

[C]

Okay, look at me remembering things. His Seriously, you have no idea how impressive that is. So his cousin has type 1. There's other autoimmune stuff. Does your husband have anything directly little celiac, do you make the poopy after dinner? Anything like that? What's going on there?

[B]

He definitely has something GI going on, as does my son. But neither one have been diagnosed with

[C]

anything What a lovely thing to pass down.

[B]

So, yeah, he also has hs, the skin disorder I know you've talked to other people about as hydranitis separativa, which is not really considered autoimmune, but it's auto inflammatory and it's genetic or it's hereditary.

[C]

Okay, interesting.

[B]

So that was actually what my daughter, the year before she was diagnosed, started having those skin problems. Describe them first.

[C]

Describe them for people.

[B]

Okay. So I took her to the dermatologist. She was having breakouts around her bikini line. Now she, you know, was 12 at that time. She had started shaving. The first two dermatologists I took her to told me it was just a rash from shaving, even though I had pictures of when they had erupted and they were much worse. Like I have had razor burn before and this was not razor burn.

[C]

I've been with a few ladies in my life. Razorburn looks very specific, right? Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not. If you can see my kids medical charts at their pediatrician. We never go to the doctor. I don't like it has to be something pretty bad for me even to make an appointment. So the fact that I brought her in, you know, I knew it wasn't razorburn. I figured out what it was. My husband was never diagnosed. I don't know if it was a thing that was diagnosed when he was growing up. It's a thing that happens a lot with hormones and you get it, it during puberty and he had kind of grown out of it. But I figured out what it was just from Dr. Google and went into the third dermatologist and told her my suspicions and she agreed. So then she was diagnosed at that time with hs.

[C]

I just want to be clear. She was diagnosed when you figured it out, right. You just got, you just got a doctor to agree with you that that's all that happened. Yes, contextually. That's important by the way, because you, you very well might have gone in there and gone, what do you think this is? And the third one might have gone, oh, that looks like razor burn. And, and you know. Yeah, you sometimes, you know, you say, don't lead people if you want their opinion or lead them if you don't want their opinion. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[C]

People are pretty valuable, so. Well, that's good. Good for you. First of all, that's, that's way to get after it. And isn't life unfair? Like, you know what I mean? You're like, you're born a little bit. You're like, there's the baby look, the baby's going to probably grow up to be a princess or, you know, a baseball player. And we'll probably watch, you know, he'll move out.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

But I'll get to turn the TV on every night at 7 o' clock and watch him play. And then instead you shave at 12 and find out you have a skin issue. Awesome.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

That was different than what I thought. So. Man, that's bullshit too. I'm sorry. Okay. What do you do for that? Is there anything to do for it?

[B]

So she has a very mild case, thank goodness. Some people are put on the biologic injections that are immune suppressants like Dupixent, you know, things that are also used for eczema that just suppress the immune response just a bit.

[C]

I want to talk. Can I say I'm sorry to take away from your time, which is funny after I've ran it and raved about 19 different things, but I think this is what happened when you get me early in the morning. Yeah, I got a lot of energy right now. It's not good for you.

[B]

You're well caffeinated.

[C]

It's good. Yeah, it's great for me. I haven't had anything yet this morning. Got up, took care of the dogs, took a little shower, came back to you. I want to talk to more people who are on those biologics to suppress immune stuff for other things. So if you're listening out there and you're taking something like that for anything at all, I don't even care what it is, like, reach out. I'd love to have more conversations about that. Sorry. Okay, so it's. You're managing that. It's going along fine. She's learning to deal with it. That's all. Good. Okay.

[B]

I did think it was a little bit strange because she's always been small. When you read about HS as a condition, you hear about overweight hairy men mostly now. I kind of wrote it off because her dad has it, but that just still puts some suspicion in my mind.

[C]

Hey, just real quick, is your husband an overweight hairy man?

[A]

No.

[B]

He's not either.

[C]

Oh, I think.

[B]

I mean, he's pretty hairy, but he's not overweight.

[C]

Long time listeners. Know what I'm thinking right now. I would love to call this episode. Episode Hairy man or something like that. I would also love to be able to say episode, but I was putting lip balm on while I was trying to talk. A little trick of the trade there to keep the lip smacking from happening. Okay. All Right. Well, boy, that's something. Is that a thing that, like, does it impact her life, do you think?

[B]

It did. She did have a procedure on one of her places that kept erupting, but it was just like an outpatient. Not really a surgery, but they open it up and it heals from the inside out. And since she had that done, it has been pretty good. So now when she feels something coming up, when it starts hurting, she'll start taking an antibiotic and it usually goes away.

[C]

How. How close are you with your daughter? Like, is it. Would she. Would she. Has she come to you and said, like, I'm getting older, thinking of becoming intimate with people? Like. Like, is that a. Is that a roadblock for that?

[B]

I think it will be, but she is just now starting to show some interest in boys.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Which I feel like we've been pretty lucky with that. She's a senior.

[C]

It picks up quick, though. Once it starts, it's not really.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of when they're going to college next year.

[C]

I watched Arden tell so many boys, no, thank you. Not good enough, blah, blah, blah. Now she found some handsome kitten. You know, she. She. We were sitting around last night eating dinner, and then she's like, I gotta go upstairs. She goes upstairs, comes back downstairs. It's like 10 o'.

[A]

Clock.

[C]

She's like, I'm gonna go out. And I'm like, okay. And I said, when do I expect you back? She goes, I'll be home by 11 tomorrow morning. And I went, okay. Oh, she's like 22. You know what I mean? So. Yeah, but it's still. You're. It doesn't feel that way. When you're looking at her, she looks like she's. In my mind. She's like 12, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, there's something for you to look forward to crying about.

[B]

Great.

[C]

Later.

[B]

I can't wait. I can't wait. Again.

[C]

Get excited. Oh, the boy is already older. Is it different for your son? Do you think he's 14? Oh, he's the 14 year old. Never.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. I think I might have been thinking of my son. Yeah, you're not. You're not ready to have that. I can't ask you that question about the. Like, is it really, like. I know it seems wrong, and it probably is wrong to judge people differently, but is it different? Like, you know, sending your son out into the world or your daughter out into the world, that kind of thing. But anyway, we'll skip past that.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I hadn't gotten there with him yet.

[C]

I guess you won't be happy about that, though. He's just at the part now where he hides in his room. And he's slightly mean, right?

[B]

He's not mean yet. He's still sweet. But she's. She's been mean as a snake for quite some time. They're just different personalities.

[C]

I said to Arden, I was like, why are you being so mean to me? He's like, I'm not. I'm just explaining it to you. I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, no. Sounds like Kelly's grandmother, where she was just like, I'm not being mean. I'm just telling people how it is. I'm like, no, it's mean. Anyway, she's lovely most of the time. She said. She said something the other day. She goes. She looks at my wife and she goes, like, real serious. She goes, do you ever have times where just every man you look at, you just kind of want to punch him in the face? And they're having this thoughtful conversation. And I was like. I was trying not to, like, say anything, you know? And she's like, I don't like you. And Kelly's like, yeah. And she's like, I don't know what that is. And Kelly asks, like, even your boyfriend? She goes, yeah, I just told him about it the other day. She's like, I just don't know what's happening. And I just went, I mean, it's hormonal. And she hit me. And I was like, hey, what the heck? So anyway, it's hormonal. In case you're wondering, I've been around a lot. I'm like, that. What's that lady that watched the monkeys, you know, who I mean, going out in the woods with the monkeys. And she paid really close attention to him her whole life, and she. I'm bad.

[B]

Jane Goodall.

[C]

Goodall.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm the Jane Goodall of women. I just want to say I've been watching. I've been paying real close attention. And anyway, I know you don't take the monkey's food from em. And I know you're not supposed to say it's hormonal when they ask questions like that, but there I was, and I'm getting older, and I don't really care anymore. So anyway, what's the lead up to the diabetes? What do you see what happens? How do you get to it?

[B]

Oh, so she plays basketball. And she had just finished her eighth grade season of basketball and she has this great big water bottle that she takes to school and she has practice after school. And so since the season was over and she was just coming home after school, we had changed back to her normal size water bottle. And after a few weeks after the season was over, she asked for her big water bottle again. So that was clue number one. My son at that point was 11. He would sometimes get scared at night and he would go sleep in her floor in her room. And he told me that. That she had stepped on him when she got up to pee at night. And so that was clue number two. About a month after that, we went on spring break and we were all staying in a hotel room and the bathroom was right outside of where I was sleeping and she would get up maybe three times a night to pee.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So that's when I told my husband while we were on vacation that I thought she probably had diabetes. He flipped out. He's not medical at all. I guess. I didn't say that. I'm a pharmacist. So he responded with anger. I think he was afraid. Yeah, you know, there was a whole thing. But we, when we got home, I went to Walmart and bought a glucometer and tested her and she was 300 something. And I called my friend who's a nurse practitioner and said she's a pediatric nurse practitioner and just asked what hospital and do I need to pack a bag? Because I knew what was coming.

[C]

Yeah. Geez.

[B]

And well, so yeah, that sucks.

[C]

I want to jump forward a little bit to the reason that you put in your note about coming on. And of course, so that I can say again, I think I do know now I'm going to call the episode mean as the snake. I think so.

[B]

Appropriate.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Also, you know, she'll never hear this, so it's fine.

[B]

True.

[C]

And it'll help other people, which is nice. Why don't you tell me a little? All your note says is teenage rebellion and managing without technology. So like, why don't you walk me through the. The getting diagnosed and more of the mental, you know, side of how it impacted her and how things move forward from there.

[B]

Okay, so that sounds like there was some big blow up, I guess from what I wrote. But it's, it's. It was more like we eased into this. But so when she was diagnosed, I think we spent one night in the hospital. The educator came in the next morning and went over the basics and then there wasn't really a whole lot of education. I had a little Bit from school, but that was a long time ago. She went home with an XCOM G6 Novolog pens and Levemir pens, and Levomir was discontinued. So now we're doing Tresiba, still doing Novolog pens. The summer after she was diagnosed in April, we were at the beach. She asked me if she could take her sensor off while we were at the beach. And without giving it much thought because I know about finger sticks and how annoying that is, I thought, well, you know, this. Sure. You know, take a break. She'll be super annoyed with finger sticks. She'll go right back to her sensor. It never happened.

[C]

Did she not get three months in? Did she not get annoyed with the finger sticks? Or did she just not do them?

[B]

Three years later, we're still finger sticking. She's. We go through probably 400 strips a month, I think is what I get with our insurance. She probably tests 10 to 12 times a day.

[C]

Huh.

[B]

Cool.

[C]

I mean, not. You probably are mortified. But, like, I mean,

[B]

I never thought for one second that, yes, I'm gonna let her do this and she's gonna. It's.

[C]

It's gonna work out. Yeah. You. You did that thing. You were like, oh, she'll see, and then the point will be made and I won't have to even be the one to say it.

[B]

Right, Right. I should have known. I mean, she's been her own person since she was born. She's always been very independent, had her own thoughts about things. She didn't care that that's the standard of care. She didn't care one bit. She liked the finger sticks and is still doing them.

[C]

Is it working out like her? I mean, Never mind. I took it from the. I mean, I guess I don't think. Probably don't need the whole story. It's not working out. Is that what you're saying?

[B]

I mean, she's very responsible. She always doses. She. The worst A1C she's had since diagnosis was A7,4. She's usually high fives to low sixes.

[C]

Okay, well, she's doing well, but you

[B]

think she's having more lows than I would like. Yeah, because you can't. You just can't. You know, we went from having the data every five minutes to having, what, 12 readings a day?

[C]

Well, be serious about it for a second, though. Like, let's not joke around for a second. It is. I get, I get it. Right. Like, let's try to, like, thoughtfully look into the other side of it. So you have the cgm. You always have context for what's happening. You can get ahead of things even if you don't get ahead of it. You can kind of track how bad it's going while you're fixing it.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like there's a level of comfort there at the very least. And she's probably having lower A1Cs. You think though, because she's low sometimes and we're not doing anything about it, she's staying low too long.

[B]

She treats her lows but you know, you can catch the fall with a CGM and it's you, you know, she doesn't catch it until she feels it sometimes. And you know, so she ends up being. And the, you know, 60s treating sometimes 50s versus, you know, we were treating in the 70s when she had the CGM. So you just don't see it coming.

[C]

When you had the conversations that I, I'm assuming you've had with her before and they end with her yelling at you. What's the process? And what does she explain to you that she is it I don't care or I like it better this way. What's her perspective?

[B]

It's just her personal preference. And she also doesn't like people to know that she's diabetic. So she has two friends that know. So it's not well known at school. And I think that has a lot to do with when she like at what age she was diagnosed. You know, if she was diagnosed in elementary school, everybody would have had to have known and it would be. She was at the end of middle school, you know, going into high school was kind of, you know, you have to consider their, they have to be part of the decision making process. Even though they're, they still have monkey brains.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

These kids, they think they know something and then they talk and if you ignore them, the state comes for you. It's tough.

[B]

Do you.

[C]

Is she in her like a side of diabetes life? Is she super private?

[B]

Yes, I would say so.

[C]

Is it vanity

[B]

maybe? I think it's more she doesn't want to be judged by that. She doesn't want any kind of sympathy or to be treated any differently. You know, when you're a teen, especially girls, it's all about conformity. Like they all want to dress alike, look alike.

[C]

I'm gonna ask.

[B]

I was not like that.

[C]

I don't understand. You don't know how to do it? Like, can I ask a question that some people are going to judge me for? But I'm just, I only have an okay, is she super pretty or Is she weird and awkward? What's the reason she doesn't want people seeing the stuff on her?

[B]

I think it's just insecurity.

[C]

Insecurity.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And.

[B]

And I, I think that comes from. So this is a little background about the elementary school we go to. About 10% of that school goes to a certain middle and high school and. And the other 90% go to a different one. So we're in the 10% because of where we live. So after, you know, fifth grade, she had to make all new friends. Well, after the first year of middle school, they go out for Covid. So she had made like one or two good friends and then it was weird for a couple of years.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So she really has just a very small friend group. And she's not social. She's not very social.

[C]

Is she anti social? You're like, you're like, listen, she's gonna shoot people in a mall. It was at that level. No, you didn't mean that. You meant like, she's just not like an out and about person.

[B]

Well, I mean, she's on the basketball team, she's on the golf team. She's an honor graduate. I mean, it makes her sound like she's, you know, a strange child, but she really is not that weird,

[A]

but

[B]

just very private and just doesn't want. She's never wanted to draw attention to herself.

[C]

Mean as a snake, but not that weird. What a love letter. What a love letter. I'll let you say nice stuff about her at the end.

[B]

Don't worry

[C]

if she. First of all, we know she's never going to hear this. And secondly, and by the way, for those of you who are like, yes, she will. I'm like, we, we. Trust me, it's not going to happen. We've taken steps and so. But is she. I mean, is she like. Like, how do you talk about her? Like, forget this whole diabetes story for a second. Like, if she didn't have diabetes, do you think this kind of stuff would be happening around other things in her life where she'd kind of be close to the vest, wouldn't let a bunch of people in? Or do you think she's doing this just because of the type 1?

[B]

I think it's a combination of the whole social Covid thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the HS and the diabetes.

[C]

It's like a stew. It just leads you in this direction. Really? What do you do about that? Or for. Listen, I want to say something. The other day I was talking to somebody about some mental health stuff on the podcast. And I just, I have the same feeling every time I talk about, not mental health, but human problems in general. Like, you either know they're happening or don't. You kind of can diagnose them. They're hard to change. People don't want to hear about, you know, where they're falling short or could be acting differently even. It's not a thing I'm completely convinced at this point. People change when they change, if they change, that's it. Like, you cannot force somebody to do something at all about anything ever. It's probably a waste of your goddamn time to even think about it. Like, like, so pointing out the, like you know, for a million years, you could point out to her like, hey, you know, your life would probably be easier with a cgm, right? She's not, she's gonna say, I don't care. You're gonna hear I don't care, as she doesn't care about her health, which is not what she's saying, right? And then it's just. And then you're gonna feel nervous about it. You're always gonna be on edge. You're gonna have this feeling. She's going to know that she's. You're disappointed in her for not doing a thing that she doesn't want to do. And she's going to judge you for treating her that way. And my point is, if my wife and I just would not have had these kids, I think we'd have a second house in a warm weather location.

[B]

You could be at the beach right now.

[C]

Son of a bitch. But also without them, I don't even know if I'd care. So, you know what I mean? Like this, I think this is life and fighting against it is not valuable. I really, I'm not like a hippie, dippy person. But like, I think you just have to give people space, let them be who they are and let them know you love them. Say your piece and then back out slowly, right? And then maybe they figure it out one day.

[B]

Well, she's always been a very just deal with it kind of person. It is what it is. We're just going to deal with it. And she, I mean, she completely manages. I haven't helped since probably the first year, you know, and she always doses, she always checks. I can't really complain. I just, I do every once in a while just put the bug in her ear that, you know, it's not really a 1C. It's time and range and we don't really have an accurate picture of your Time and range. Because we have these pinpoint times, times throughout the day, we don't have the full data. You know, I just. I want her at some point in the future to. I'm actually trying to get her approved for the. Ever since 3. 65 right now, because she told me she would do that and at least wear it at night. So when she's at college.

[C]

Oh, that's a nice piece of progress. That's what I'm talking about, by the way. Marathon, not a sprint. You use whatever metaphor makes you comfortable, right? You know, like, that's really fantastic. Hey, when you tell her all that, does she pause and go, that's right. You're a pain in the ass.

[B]

Or like, every time.

[C]

And then do you go, oh, I can't believe he says that about me behind my back. Or do you go, no, this all checks out?

[B]

Yes, definitely. I like everyone good a little bit. I guess I had some fear about her rebelling if I did make her wear the cgm.

[C]

I think you're smart.

[B]

Well, I could totally see her just turning me off and not letting me follow.

[C]

Oh, not only that, I. Listen, if you want to get into my mindset, I have a daughter, and. And she's been on the podcast before. You've all heard her. So I. My brain would say this. If I force her to do this thing, I jump right ahead to, she's on heroin and she has three kids. She lives in a. Just to spite me. Do you know what I mean? Like, and I know that's not what. But that's how far I'm just like, oh, this is just gonna spin out of control. And that I actually believe, about personal relationships, you can. You can live in a. In an imperfect relationship that gets better, but you can't push a relationship outside of that cell. I actually am thinking about a human cell. Like, once you push it through that membrane, you're on the other side of it. You can't get back in again sometimes, right? Or it takes forever and it's never the same again. So I'd rather. This is obviously from the voice of a kid from a divorced family, but, like, I would rather everything not be perfect till we can find better than to push hard. No one's going to bend anyway, and then everybody's at odds forever, right? Yeah. I think you're doing the right thing.

[B]

Well, I don't know. We'll see. I'm also trying to get her approved for Afrezza, which I. I did all this stuff last year, but she was. She's getting ready to turn 18 in 10 days. So they are insurance denied the ever since and the Afrosa last year because she wasn't 18 yet. So I'm gonna go through all that again because I would. I would like to. For her to have those tools before she goes to college.

[C]

Yeah, I think that it's tough too, because when you ask somebody to do something, if they're not ready to do it or they don't want to do it, but they know you're letting them down, that they know or they feel like this decision is letting you down right now, they feel bad for not wanting to do it. They feel bad for not doing it. And then they feel bad for how it's making you feel. And then they probably feel bad for feeling bad and what it's done to your relationship. People are wired very strangely. You know what I mean? You would feel that way if. If she was a friend of yours, but instead you're her mom. So you're just worried about her health and her safety. Right. You probably don't have any other thoughts except long term health, short term health. These are. These are your concerns. Right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. It's a weird mix. I don't know.

[B]

But I also want her to be good mentally and I.

[C]

You're not sure that she is.

[B]

Well, she is because she's not wearing the cgm. I think that it was very taxing for her to have all that data. I loved it. I'm the type A. Like, I had everything charted. We would write down everything she ate and what happened, and she's just not like that. She just.

[C]

She more like her big fat hairy dad. I know he's none of those things, but, you know.

[B]

Yes, yes, they are a lot alike.

[C]

So his response to I think our daughter has type 1 diabetes is her response to, hey, you should wear a cgm.

[B]

Pretty much.

[C]

Awesome. Is your. Is your son just like. Like you?

[B]

He is.

[C]

How does all this happen? Isn't it weird? I don't know.

[B]

It's so weird. He's very laid back and very. Just easy to get along with.

[C]

I know you like him the best. That's fine. I understand.

[B]

They're so different. It's crazy.

[C]

I know.

[B]

They came out that way.

[C]

Yeah. I got home the other day. I was gone for a few days. I got home and everyone was in like it was the end of the weekend mood, you know, the Sunday afternoon. This wasn't a long enough break. Everybody kind of was feeling, you know what I mean? And I kind of stepped into It. But I had, like, a ton of excitement for my trip and, like, good energy. And I was like, oh, I'm not fitting in. In the space. And then. And then I. I tried to share something I was excited about, and I didn't. I got a lot. I got pushback from. From a lot of angles, except for Kelly. Kelly was nice about it, but the kids were. I'm talking about, like, changing something, and I think it's scaring the kids, right? And not scaring them. Like, you know, like, they think that clown's gonna come out of the sewer. Kind of scared, but, like, it's just. It's just uncomfortable for them. And so they're kind of. They were pushing back with, like. They're like, oh, yeah, but what about. And I was like, well, yeah, but what about this? Like. Or we should just look or, you know, like, let's know better. And you realize, like, you're trying to. Like, you're trying to make a point with 50 years of experience to somebody who maybe has five years of experience being adult. And they're not really adults. They're just like. Like I said to my wife the other night, I was like, you remember when we were Arden's age, we were. We were on our own. Like, we owned. We had an apartment, we owned cars. You know what I mean? Like, we had jobs.

[A]

Like.

[C]

Like, we were. Like, we were. We were hustling. Like, it was a different time. They're, like, finishing up school or talking about going to grad school or just starting out with work if they're lucky, you know, and their level. But they still. Based on the age, they're like, I'm an adult. Like Arden said the other day, God, I hope she never hears this. She had a. She had a Dexcom, like, went funky. It got the gooseneck thing when you pop it in, and the wire comes out of the top.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so she had to pop it off and put on another one. And I said, hey, listen, you know, we can't afford to throw that away. You have to call in and get that replaced. Because she told me six months ago that she's an adult. She can take care of herself. So I said, I put it on the counter. And I was like, hey, you just need to call Dexcom real quick, tell them what happened, and they'll send you a new one. I mean, that was four weeks ago. And so it's still sitting on the counter. But now I think it's a situation where I think she realizes it's been too long. And I. And I don't know why. Whether she's forgotten about it or she really believes I'll get to it. But she's also in college, and she's got, you know, she's young and she's got a boyfriend, all that stuff. And. And all I can think is every time I walk past the box, I think, well, don't call it in, because she's an adult and she wants to take care of it herself. But I'm also the one that paid for it, so I'd like very much if the replacement came soon. And so now I'm just weighing the amount of time I have to wait until she won't care. And again, my wife and I just used to, like, you know, have sex and, like, laugh and watch movies. And then we were like, we should have a kid. And now I'm staring at a Dexcom box, wondering what the appropriate amount of time is to call this in. Because let me just be clear. And if she does hear this one day, she's never gonna do that. Like, never, never, never, never in a million years. This isn't gonna happen. Right now do I think she'd be an adult who would take care of it if it was five years from now? I think in a. In a millisecond. But to your point earlier, she's in college. She's got friends. Those friends are like, their lives are changing. She's got a boyfriend. She's, you know, desires for herself, and, you know, she's. What she wants and what she's doing, what she's not doing, she's feeling like. She probably feels like she lets herself down every day. She's out there hustling, trying not for that to be the case. She probably feels like she's letting us down. I think it's so crazy how people always feel like that. Like, instead of just looking at the things that are going really well, you measure the things that aren't going well. I don't do that. I only measure the stuff that's going well.

[B]

Just Forget everything else.

[C]

I'm like, hey, listen, that wasn't perfect. But did you see what I did over here? So, I mean. Because I don't imagine I can be perfect. So, like, why not? Like, anyway, you can't. There's another thing you can't talk a person into doing. Right? You know, so.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Anyway, I'm. Anyway, so my life is spent, like, looking at that box, going, like, what's the right amount of time to make this call? Ridiculous. I'm an adult. I have a bank account. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know why she has the bank account? Because I made her open up a bank account. That's the only money that's in that bank account is from the one job she's had so far, which I can say now because it won't be out for a while, but was like, making social media for Omnipod. Like, she doesn't even work. Like, she's. You know, and she's like, I'm an adult. You'd be dead in 20 minutes without me. What are you talking about? You're an adult.

[B]

Their own money. I don't think it changes until it's their. Their own money.

[C]

She's an adult. Like, my wife wouldn't be broke if I wasn't here defending our cash. You know what I mean? My wife would be homeless without me. She'd be like, I don't know where the money. I'm like, I know where it went. Shoes. It's in the closet.

[A]

Go get it.

[C]

Sell it to somebody. You'll get it back again. But. But seriously, also, let me. I'm going to say this because I think I'd like to lead this into your part of the conversation, too. I'm being genuinely serious here. Beautiful, thoughtful, lovely, intelligent person. Fantastic. I love my daughter. She is awesome. She is growing every day and becoming a more and more complete person every day. If. If she heard me say anything like this, she'd think I don't understand her at all. But I would tell her. She doesn't understand that she's in the middle of a process. She always thinks she's at the end of the process. That's the thing about being young, like, is you always think, oh, my God, this is the best version of me ever. I know more stuff right now than I ever have. You don't realize. You're just in the middle of it still. You know, and it's hard to hear.

[B]

I still did a lot of stupid things in my 20s.

[C]

Yeah, of course. Are you kidding me? I had a baby twice. I was obviously an idiot.

[B]

I.

[C]

Listen, I gave. I've given you all the best advice in the world. I've told you to pre Bolst. I told you to get your basal. I told you to understand the impact of fat on your blood sugars. I told you not to get a dog. I told you not to get married, and I told you not to have kids. I have kids, dogs, and I've been married for 30 years. I'm an Idiot, too. If I knew what I. Oh, my God. I'd be by myself in the woods. I just want you to know. Happy as a clam.

[B]

Oh, that'd be great.

[C]

How do they measure clam's happiness? By the way? That's ridiculous.

[B]

By the way, not sure how we got here.

[C]

I gotta tell you something. For those of you who don't enjoy this, part of me, I feel like I am flowing right now. Like, this is what I feel like my podcast should be like all the time. Oh, my God. I'm like the Tim Dillon of diabetes. And if nobody understands that reference, I'm like the Howard Stern of diabetes. And if you're too young for that one, I don't know what to tell you, but I really feel like I'm doing great right now, and I don't use drugs, and I think that's impressive. Oh, my God.

[B]

So what are you gonna me a little bit of how we describe mental illness as, like, diary of the mouth or like, a word salad?

[C]

I don't know. Sometimes I have. There's a. Flow is the best word I can give you. Also, there was a comedian on here recently who I went off on kind of like a little bit of a. What you. Some of you might call a rant, but I call it a. A beautiful moment. And. And at the end of it, I apologized to him. I was like, oh, I went on too long there. I'm sorry. And he goes, no, man. He's like. You were like, flow state there. He's like, I spend my professional life trying to find that spot. I was like, oh, I just need 10 minutes to warm up, but I can hit it in two seconds.

[B]

You're on a roll.

[C]

And I also think that even if you being, like, super serious for a second, if you go back and listen to any of, like, the pro tip stuff or any of that stuff, there's. I'm not good at diabetes till I hit this moment, and then it feels like I create this sort of, like, slip and slide from the things I know to the ability to, like, articulate them. But if I try to speak thoughtfully and measured more like the rest of you do, sometimes I'm not really that thoughtful. It's interesting. Like, I. I need a little bit of unconscious when I'm talking, and then it, like, then it makes sense. Or those of you who don't believe in that, whatever, but, like, you know, you're like, no, you're an idiot. That's why I listen to this. I listen because you're an Idiot. And you make me feel good about my own mental health. Maybe that's what's happening for some people. I have no idea.

[B]

Well, it's like those people that have to have a little bit of alcohol to drink before they. They can be social.

[C]

That's not good for me. I wouldn't. That's not. That wouldn't be good for me. Yeah, I'd say terrible. Like, I. I mean, they wouldn't be terrible, but they would hurt your feelings if I was, because I do. This is actually me. I'm. I'm actually, like, restraining myself. I tell people all the time. Like, when I first started doing this, Kelly's like, people are not gonna like you. And I was like, no, I'll just hold some of it back. And. And she's like, yeah, you think you can do that? I was like, no, I think I've actually found a. Like, a good level of it, I think so. I. I think the podcast is entertaining and it's helpful, and it's introspective and. And valuable. But if I just opened up. Oh, thank you for that. Yes. That was a thoughtful yes. I'm sorry I spoke over it. If I just completely opened up, you would be like, oh, my God,

[B]

too much.

[C]

Well, imagine, like, no filter on me and going this fast. Yeah, yeah, I. It would take me about an hour to just, like, I'd go through that. Yeah. I'd hit all the ones. I'd be like. I talk about those people online who are, you know, acting like they're the reason that. That Eladon trial's working. I would talk. By the way, though, there's nine people who I don't mean that about are now insulted. But here's the funny thing about me. I don't care. And, you know, and. And I'm not talking about them. Figure it out. That's your own guilt, not me. Okay. And, you know, I. I'd go off about. I. I would talk about so many things that would probably get me in trouble, but maybe at the end, I'll let you know when the last year of the podcast is.

[A]

I'll make.

[C]

I'll, like, ring a bell, and I'll be like, listen, I've already secured all the advertising, and I'm not doing this again next year. Let's go. You know what I mean?

[B]

This. We talk about this at the pharmacy sometimes, because there's just some customers. You wish you could just say what you want to say to them.

[C]

Well, what would you. What would you say? How. Give me one Example of somebody who is just like, if you could just say what you wanted to say to them, you think it would be valuable for them if they would be forced to listen?

[B]

Well, just people who. Whose irresponsibility and. Or lack of taking ownership of their own care, and then it creates, like, an emergency for you and like. Like running completely out of things like insulin or, you know, their heart medicine. And then coming in on a weekend, they don't have refills on their bottle. You know, usually we'll give them some, but if they come in being an right off the get go, it doesn't really make me want to, you know, just give you something. But I have asked people before, like, do you let yourself run completely out of toilet paper?

[C]

And what do they say?

[B]

They're like, no. And they look at me like I'm crazy. I'm like, this is what you need to live.

[C]

Like, what would you say to them? Listen, would you let yourself run out of toilet paper? Because the situation you've put us in right now is you have a shitty ass and you're asking me to wipe it off. Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

I don't want to do it.

[C]

Yeah. And guess what? Not for nothing, Allie's not into that. Okay? So go take care of yourself.

[A]

You know what?

[C]

I. I have a. An acquaintance who's been on a GLP for two years and can't lose weight. And. And I say, you know, I'm talking to him one day. I was like, yeah. I'm like, look, man, I don't know. You're doing something wrong. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, let's try to, like, let's figure it out. I realize I'm talking to him. He's in a convenience store parking lot eating lunch and talking about how his stomach hurts all the time. And I'm like, well, what are you eating? And he starts going through the things he's eating. I said, you should stop eating those things. I was. Think that might be part of your problem. You. You've taken a drug that's slowing down your digestion significantly, and then you're eating fatty foods, and then you're just saying, I don't understand. My stomach hurts. And then the. The takeaway is the GLP makes my stomach hurt. I'm like, sort of not really. Like, you know, now, again, some of you have probably had problems on the drug. I'm not, I'm not saying you didn't. I'm just saying that there's some situations where you're like, listen, you're you're double fisting cheeseburgers on a GLP and telling me that it makes your stomach hurt. The. It's the cheeseburgers that make your stomach hurt, not the jlp, right? You know, like so, and, or, or the, or the poor people who have some level of gastroparesis when they start and then they have real trouble on it. They didn't know they had gastroparesis before, probably. And then they're like, you know, this, this medication, it gave me gastroparesis. And I'm like, maybe, or maybe you almost. Maybe you were getting closer and maybe it's tipped it a little bit. Like, I don't know. But we all run out into the world then and, you know, make the pronouncements about things. It's. And it's tough to be. Do you ever think about this when you're looking at those people in the pharmacy? You want them to make a good decision, but nobody's ever told them what a good decision is. How are they going to make it? Like, I mean, seriously, back to like, GLPs and gastroparesis. Someone probably should have said to them, hey, have you had diabetes for 20 years and had a 1Cs in the sevens? I don't think we. Maybe it might be a little scary to put you on this drug. Why don't we check your motility first and make sure that this isn't going to slow it way down. Like there's, I think people led them wrong in that situation anyway. Like, I'm going to take a hard pivot for a second because you're in pharmacy. I think GLP medications are going to, like, fundamentally change the world. I, I think that in your. My lifetime, like, that idea of like, you know, you go to Disney World and everybody's overweight. Like, I don't. I think that's going to go the other direction. Do you think that. Or what are you seeing with people, like, in real. In the real world? Because I get worried sometimes that I judge what's happening based on my experience, which is all I can really do, but I might. I'm having a fairly thoughtful use case with the stuff. So what do you see, like, in the real world use?

[B]

Um, I'm not seeing a whole lot of people who don't go to the pharmacy anyway. Like, if they're people who don't go to the doctor, don't take care of their health, I don't think they're going to be exposed to it anyway. These are people who, or most Most of the people that we dispense to, you know, are diabetic patients anyway, or they have other health issues going on that they were already our patients. We don't have many new people coming in that are just getting GLPs. I guess that's what I mean, the

[C]

way I'm doing like, so I, I, I wasn't having a ton of other issues that were like really detrimental and I was like, I'm gonna lose weight. And right then I, so I, oddly enough, I'm using it more proactively than most people.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. Well, we'll put it in the.

[B]

I think it's not even on some people's radars.

[C]

Oh no, that's for sure. Like a hundred. I'm, I'm sometimes stunned by the things that exist in the world that people don't know about. I'll give you three of them right now. GLPs. Most people, no idea what you're talking about. Self driving cars, which work much better than you all probably think they do. And AI like the way like go to juiceboxpodcast.com right now and look at how great that website looks like and then say to yourself, that Scott guy did that in two weeks and he doesn't know how to code a website. Like, like, seriously, no, no joke. Like go look. It's like people say, I want to be able to listen on the website. I don't want to go to a, I, you know, I don't. There's a thing I, I think I'm, I think I drag a lot of people who otherwise would never listen to a podcast into being podcast listeners. So you kind of have to give them more options about how to listen because like where I would just like open Spotify or Apple podcasts and listen, they don't know about that, so they want to be able to listen online better. But that's not what the podcast industry wants. So the online players kind of suck. And so I just coded my own online players, but I don't know how to code. And I mean, that's a thing that AI does. That's really astonishing. My son works in an industry where he's overseen by a project manager. And he came downstairs yesterday and he goes, you know how this project would go better? And I said, how? And he goes, if the project manager would leave us alone. And, and, and, and I was like, and he starts talking about like, you know, Scotty's just trying to make work for himself. We don't need him. Like, he thinks he's everything's about him. He's making a thousand meetings that nobody needs, blah blah, blah, we need to keep track of what we're changing, keep track of our deadlines, blah blah. And I watched over his face, he goes, I could just build an AI agent to do that. And I was like, okay. And in 10 minutes he was explaining to me how he's gonna build an AI agent to do the project management stuff. And then once it's working right, he's gonna take it to his boss and go, hey, I figured out how we can save a hundred grand and make our lives better.

[A]

Let's get rid of John.

[C]

And like so, and you could argue, well that's terrible, John's going to lose his job. Or you could argue, if John was better at his job, no one would ever have that thought. And like I've heard people say about all these things, right? Always fear the glpo. It's bad or you're, you know, you're cheating. Well, when I'm alive longer, I'm not going to think of that as cheating, by the way. I'm going to think of that as winning. You know the, the AI stuff, I've heard it said that the closest thing I can come to believing now, a year and a half ago I would have told you, I was saying to people, a year and a half ago there's going to be college courses just about how to prompt AI and now. And, and I thought that the people who knew how to do it were going to succeed. And I've kind of melded that into an idea of now. Like it feels more to me like people who, people who work with AI will keep their jobs and people who don't know how to work with it are going to have trouble in certain industries. Like, you know what I mean? Like not, not everywhere self driving cars. I'm just going to tell you, like they work perfectly. Is it perfect? Perfect? It's not. But it drives way better than you do. So you can think that's not true, but you were wrong. So it's, it's fascinating how well that stuff works. Anyway, my point is that those are like pretty big leaps in technology and understanding of the world that most people are completely unaware of. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So when you get into medicine or you know, like, you know what was the other day they were yelling about like there's peptides are going to be easier to compound now or something. And then I heard somebody say that's not true. But I was like, whatever, like, let's Say it becomes more true. It doesn't matter. It's not like your doctor is going to be like, oh, you know, here's this peptide that helps you heal more quickly. That's. No one's ever going to prescribe that to you. Like, it's just. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Anyway, I'm sorry. Say all the things you want to say now.

[B]

Well, I have to tell you how I found the podcast, I guess, because I am of a certain age and I didn't listen to podcasts before. Do you know who Alec Murtaugh is?

[C]

Wait.

[B]

It's this lawyer in Charleston that, like, killed his family.

[C]

I know that name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

[B]

Okay. So that one of my friends was listening to a podcast about that whole thing, and she was like, you gotta listen to this. It's great. So that was the first ever podcast I listened to. So that got me onto. And then I figured out I could, you know, search for things I wanted, other things I wanted to listen to. So when she got diagnosed, I came. You know, your first one to pop up. Oh, wow.

[C]

Well, thank God he killed all those people.

[B]

I know, right? Thanks, Alec. I don't know. I don't know if he's still alive or if he's in jail or what, but.

[A]

So you.

[B]

It was terrible story.

[C]

I like the way you laugh through it. No, it's. But, man, what a good point. Like, you were never going to find podcasts something, drug you into it, because it was the only delivery system for that story. Also, I mean, this is an oversaid statement, but I do not know why women like true crime podcast so much. It's very, like, that's a truth about the world. They're incredibly popular, like health podcasts, true crime podcast, politics. Those should be, like, the most, like, widely popular kinds of podcasts, but. Yeah, do. Any idea why? Have you ever dreamt of killing somebody? Does it fulfill a fantasy? What's going on there? Do you like being scared without being in danger?

[B]

I think if you see, like, a really messed up family, it makes you feel better about yours, maybe.

[C]

So this is just about cattiness, you think?

[B]

Probably.

[C]

I knew there were people out there that were worse off than I was. Thank God.

[B]

I'm just here to make you feel better about yourself.

[C]

Oh, that's a T shirt for sure. If it's not patent pending, please don't steal that. I had the. Oh, my God. I. A couple of years ago, a professor at Penn State was arrested for having relations with a dog. I don't know another way to say that nicely.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

And I was like, God, that must be the talk of the campus. And then I said to the kids, I was like, could we make a T shirt about that and then just sell it in Penn, Around Penn State? I think we might be wealthy. I think every kid on campus, there's so many kids that school. What if we sold one to each one of them? I think we'd be done. We could retire, you know, and my kids are. I don't. I wasn't. I want to be clear. I wasn't serious. I was joking around. But they're like, please don't do that. But. But I'm only here to make you feel better. That's gotta be. I mean, if that's not a T shirt already, the T shirt gods are not paying attention. That's how we all feel, by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Like I'm just here messing everything up, you know, at least I'm a. I'm a good role model for you to feel like you're doing a little better job than me. I think there's a lot of value in that. But then you find the podcast. And why do you find it, though? Because you said she's been taking care of it on her own pretty much the whole time. So where's the value for. Because I don't imagine she's listening to you. You don't get to go like, oh, go listen to episode this. Right. You.

[B]

Well, I'm. I'm just the kind of person who wants to know everything about a thing. And I had limited knowledge and I. Those first probably three months were rough. She was. So when she got diagnosed, she was in the hospital, I think on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and we got out the next day. She had a basketball tournament that weekend. And I was like, we're doing it. This is not going to limit us. We're doing it. Well, she played the first game and I expected her to tank. So we had given her some snacks before and she was like, 400 after her game.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so then I did some research on to the, like, adrenaline and how it can make you go up during exercise versus down versus, you know, different kinds of exercise. And there's, you know, it's just so much information and then the hormones. And I just wanted to get all the information I could so that I could, you know, and I do share it with her in little pieces. And I have sent her some of the small sips. I don't know if she's listened to them. Or not.

[C]

I tell you, I listened to them recently. Yeah, I had to give a talk and it was a. I had. This is only for people who are online too much. But I had to drive out to Long island to give a talk at Hofstra at a teaching hospital. It's a three hour ride one way. I drove six hours to talk for an hour and 10 minutes. I did not charge them to do that. So those of you out there who say you're helping people, but it's all about like, I wonder if I could get money out of everybody, you know, maybe just do a nice thing once in a while. Anyway, that's not for me. That's to tell you that I was in the car for three hours on the way to the thing and I'm a pretty good public speaker, so. But I don't prepare, so I do the flow state thing usually works out pretty well. I just modulate it differently because, you know, it's not for fun, it's not a podcast and. But I knew I was going out to Hofstra to give like a very specific conversation and I actually thought to myself, I wish I could just brush up really quickly on what I think. I know that sounds odd, but, you know, stuff I said a while ago and, you know, it lives online where people are like, oh my God, this is really valuable to me. I don't remember exactly how I said those things, so I just list. I just put those small sips on, I just let them run in the car and you know, they're only sometimes 10 minutes long or something like that. And I got done. And I don't mean I'm not trying to be funny or it's self deprecating or any. I just, I got done and I thought, these are really good. Like, these will really help you, you know, and they're quick and they put you in the, in a tiny little knowledge bubble that you need. Makes it understandable and you can get the hell out of it really quickly. And, you know, I made that for younger people, but never thinking to myself, like, they'll probably never even listen to it. So. But they're there if you want them.

[B]

Yeah, well, I've sent her some of them. I listened to all the beginner stuff. I'd started at the beginning and then I would skip ahead and search for certain things I was looking for.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

But I learned so much just from listening to other people talk about just different. I remember I was listening to a podcast one time and you had Jenny on and y' all were talking about a mountain climber and she was talking about our insulin, and I ended up getting some from the pharmacy. And my daughter eats a very low carb lunch, so we give her R when she leaves for school and it covers her throughout the day. Okay, so that's working pretty well too.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

But just different things that I've picked up and everybody's so different at the way they manage. I do hear a lot of people talking about pumps and technology, and I have listened to a lot of those podcasts as well. Just hoping and sometime in the future that she may, you know, be ready for that.

[C]

Yeah. I just got a text while you and I were talking from the person who helps me with Arden's Trio algorithm. And the text just says, let's see, Trio is in Maine now. Should we move Arden up? I said, do you think I should? And they said, yes. And I said, cool, let's do it. So, yeah, I'm, I'm hopeful for. I mean, honestly, I think if we could get to unannounced meals on an algorithm, that'd be a really big deal for people. You know, you just eat and that thing could figure it out and get ahead of that. I think that changes people's lives. I, you know, just in the last week, I've spoken to a group of adults, a group of parents, a second group of parents, and a bunch of little kids all about diabetes and like in a short span of time. And it's, it's valuable to hear their, their feedback and what they're going through and everything. And whether these kids, I'm not kidding, are seven or 70. And you say to them, pre bolting, they all say the same exact thing. Like, that's difficult to remember to do. And. Yeah, and one, I think it was a kid today. It was, it was like a, like a, an 11 year old girl. She said to me, I don't know I'm hungry till I'm hungry. And it was just the simplicity of the way she said it. Like, I don't plan to eat in 20 minutes. I'm not hungry now. I'm hungry 20 minutes from now. And you know, I don't know, there's just the way she said it to me. I was like, yeah, she's, she's right. Again. Not that I don't know that pre bolting is difficult or that it's not an extra thing for you to remember. I just, I'm more in the camp of you're putting so much effort into this. If we could put in less effort in different places. And is it a, is it a, is it a switch up in how you think about it? It is, but I think you'll find it valuable if you can get into that kind of flow state with it. Whereas, like, you know, I pre bolus my meals, I don't let a blood sugar get over like 160 without like bolusing again. If that's happening, if it's going up and not stopping, I don't stare at it. And, you know, I mean, I understand the impact of my food. And you're kind of done. Like, it's not that, right? There's not that much to it. It's. I said to somebody the other day, I used to worry all the time that, you know, like, I would lose the podcast somehow or somebody would come along and say it better or differently or make it more entertaining or something like that. And I said, I stopped thinking about it. Like, I don't, I don't think about it anymore. I've seen, I lost count at around 110 or 120 other people who tried to start a type 1 diabetes podcast in the last 12 years after I did it. And it's hard, it's hard to say the same simple things in different ways. Like, you get, I think you can get lost in thinking there's like a bigger idea and more to say. There's not. It's, it's, it's managing your insulin timing and amount, it's understanding the impact of your food, that's really it. You know, after that, there's mental health stuff and all this, you know, interpersonal stuff that, you know, you and I talked about today and you've heard in other episodes. It's all important. And, you know, there's, it's, it's all worth paying attention to. But if you're just talking about the nuts and the bolts of it, it's just putting the right amount of insulin at the right time.

[B]

Right?

[C]

You know, and so when you start doing those things wrong, right, and I don't mean wrong like you screwed up. I mean some purposefully. I don't pre bolus my meals, okay? Now, there's a ton of psychological reasons why that might not have happened. I don't minimize any of them. But I'm saying once that happens, this 24 hour period, it's a shit show. You're chasing the insulin, you're chasing the number. It's an entire day of this exhaustive chase of this thing that you just didn't have to Let out of the box. And it's not that easy. And obviously, if you heard me talk for the last hour, I know it's not that easy, but it is true. And so how do you get yourself to that point? I will tell you that our daughters are not exactly the same age, and they've had diabetes for vastly different amounts of time. But I still hear the same story in your daughter that I hear in other people I talk to and I experience with my own kid, which is, you can do all this stuff you want to do. The way it ends up going is out of your hands. It's going to have a lot to do with their desire, their focus, their level of interest and understanding, and all of the outside variables that they come to in their life. Girlfriends, boyfriends, jobs, stress. Like, these are all things that re. They reshape people constantly. Right, right. And we only have so much perspective, and we only have so much time, and we only have so much energy. So you can be a perfect parent. You can understand all of this. You can pass it on. It might go great. It might not go great. It might go somewhere in the middle. But I'm going to tell you that nobody wakes up on the first day that their new baby's home from the hospital and says, I'm going to raise that Montauk guy, but somebody does. And you know what I mean? And so your kids either going to be out there slaying diabetes, or diabetes is going to be slaying them, or somewhere in that middle. I don't know that you can do more than lay out a path. Be supportive, be understanding, and then step back and say, if you need me, I'm right here.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And then just take whatever it is that's gonna happen. You just gotta be willing to just accept that really wasn't within your control to begin with.

[B]

Right, right, right. I told her I wanted her to make all the mistakes while she was living at home so that she would know how to. How to deal with them.

[C]

Yeah, well, that's. Parenting is putting kids through experiences so that hopefully when they happen to them, when you're not there, they don't freeze up.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Or ignore.

[B]

And she doesn't drink now, or. You know, I guess my parents probably thought that too, but. No, I think kids these days don't drink as much as what went on when I was a kid. But I've talked to her about it anyway. You know, like, all the things that can happen and how it's harder to treat Lowe's, and I just Wanted to have all the information and she can, you know, use it however she needs

[C]

to, but that's all you can do. That's life, by the way. It's not diabetes. Like, if you think right, I, I, I, I think I say it enough here, but I, I found myself saying it this weekend. Somebody came up to me after the talk and they go, my God, that was so thoughtful. It's just how I think about life. Like, it's just common sense layered over top of diabetes. And like I said, the truth of it is, you can take the talk I just gave, take out the word diabetes, put in a different word. Word. I don't know what that word would be. It would probably apply to that stuff too. It's not magical. You know what I mean? I'm just, I'm laughing, thinking, your parents sitting around going, allie, she doesn't drink. She probably doesn't have sex. She's fantastic. And you're out there just drunk, banging in the backseat of a car. And, and they're just like, she's so lovely. She's really great. She's our princess.

[B]

Yeah. Something like that.

[C]

Something like that. Well, yeah, well, you know, life, it sucks and it's interesting and it's fun, and if you changed it, it would be boring. So.

[B]

Well, and I don't think I would have done half the things I did if everybody had a video camera in their pocket like they do these days, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean. Right.

[B]

That would have changed everything.

[C]

They don't know about our lives. They really don't.

[B]

I'm glad I grew up when I did, actually.

[C]

I, like, we're, we're probably about the same age, right. So I like the spot we're in. I like having grown up without it, but experienced it coming and being like, I, you know, I'm probably not the person you would think would be at home being like, I think I can make AI work for me, you know, But I, I, but I had a computer when I was younger. It didn't do anything. It's trying to say it out loud now, but you guys have no idea. Like, if you're walking around with a cell phone right now, you know, I've said it before, but there's more computing power in your iPhone than what they used to, like, like, send that, that lunar orbit to the moon. Like, like there's, you know, back in the 60s, if you believe they did it. I mean, the Internet, you know what I mean? Um, but, like, but it's just, it's fascinating. They're talking about. They're talking about this AI making another leap sometime this year, by the beginning of next year. And it's all to do with, like, the chip speed that's processing the work behind the scenes. And once they get these chips moved up one more time, then, you know, I guess then they get to AIG I'm a little out of my depth here, but, like, you know that. I mean, what's his name? Anthropic just released a model of Claude internally that. Have you heard about this?

[A]

They.

[C]

So, you know, they. They have a new. New model of Claude. I think it's called Mythos. And they. They tested. The way they test it, right? And one of the way they test it is, like, against security and protocol and stuff like that, to see if it can find flaws in existing systems. And they went into systems where they have, like, we all think they run perfectly, right? They. We think they're secure, we think they're fine, et cetera and so on. Like, nothing that we've had up until then, including the. The version of Claude right before that could find any problems. This Mythos walked in and was like, oh, my God. And found every problem with it in a split second.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

To the point where they said, we can't release this to the public because for you. You seem like a nice person. You might think, oh, that's great. Well, we'll, like, I'll go to my bank with Mythos and I'll find all the security flaws and fix them. Someone else is thinking they're going to go to your bank with it and take your money, you know, or. Or blah, blah, blah.

[B]

So they're.

[C]

So. They were like, we. I don't. We don't even think we can release this. We're at that point already. And, you know, like. And so they'll cripple it a little bit, probably before they put it out. But then they shared it with a bunch of companies, which, by the way, I thought was because they wanted the companies to be. They say they wanted the companies to be able to, like, fix their problems before this kind of gets out into the world. But the point is, is that eventually this is going to get out in the world, you know, And I don't. I don't know that anybody's even paying attention to this stuff. Like, seriously, like, you hear, I don't know, AI scary, it's bad, or it uses up a lot of electric or water. And maybe you're that person where you're like, you know, well, it's it's ruining the environment. You know, trust me, everything's ruining the environment. But, like, you know, or maybe you're like, me, who's like, I think I can find better ways for people to help themselves with their diabetes with it. Like, I'm gonna try to use it for, like, a good thing. Meanwhile, like, I don't know, like, things are moving really, really quickly. But you and I have context for it. People who are alive right now, like, in the last 20 years, they just think, this is how it works, right? It's a magical world where the electric thing does the stuff. And, like, you know, you and I made, like, a grilled cheese sandwich and walked outside with it, and we're like, I wonder what I'll stare at now.

[B]

I went to look up things in an encyclopedia.

[C]

The worst. Absolutely the worst. And you're reading about it and you're like, even back then, as a kid, I was like, when was this written? Like, I don't everything I knew up. And that's why I'm like, like, it's why I'm still really hopeful about the podcast being like. You know, it's easy to say, like, he's been doing this for 12 years. I actually, I'm one of the people who says that, like, how much longer can this possibly last? But at the same time, I honestly think it's in its infancy still, because we're about to find a whole new generation of people who don't have to go find a podcast through a true crime podcast to help themselves with their diabetes. Their expectation is that this exists somewhere and they're going to go get it the same way. When I wake up in the morning and I don't know how to do something, I think I will understand how to do this by this afternoon. I. I get excited about that.

[B]

I'm almost amazing.

[C]

Yeah, I'm pissed about being old because I think the next 50 years again, if we don't kill ourselves or the

[B]

robots don't come or whatever, I mean, you've seen Terminator.

[C]

I've seen Terminator. I've seen the news. Like, you know, like, if we don't figure out a way to blow ourselves up, I think it's going to be really amazing. And I'm going to be pissed to be dead. Seriously, I mean it. Like, the last thing I think before I go out, I'll be like, ah, I'm going to miss a bunch of stuff. That's how I'm going to feel. People who died 50 years ago were just like, okay, it's fine. I can go now, right?

[B]

They had no idea what was coming.

[C]

I'm out of stuff. I did the thing right. I painted the house three times. How many times am I gonna paint the house? I'm good, so. Nevertheless, anybody. Anyway, good luck to everybody. I don't know what to tell you. The guy that barely got out of high school making a podcast, so probably shouldn't be listening to me. What did we miss? Anything? Do you want to say anything? You got follow ups ending? You want to leave a message to the world?

[B]

No, I just really appreciate, you know, hearing everyone's voices and wanted to add in my two cents because we're, you know, we manage a little differently. And because I've learned so much from hearing other people's stories, I just wanted to, you know, be on and. And contribute.

[C]

Did you feel like you got to do that or did you catch me on too much of an energy day and you're like, I probably should be invited back to do what I wanted to do.

[B]

I'll come back if she ever goes back on a CGM or if she gets some technology or something, because I'll be. I know. I'll be shocked.

[C]

I gotta tell you, I wish there was a way that, like, invite her on here. I'd love to hear her opinion. I know that's not happening, don't get me wrong. But hers is the kind of opinion I'd like to hear.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know what I mean? I'd like to hear her say, look, I don't. I just don't care. Like. Or like, I'm doing. This is good enough. Good enough's good enough, or whatever. Like. Or I don't know how she feels. She might. Yeah, she might surprise you. She might, you know, if she was able to unburden herself, she might say, you know, I can't handle it. You know, I want to do that stuff, but I just. I can't. Like, it's too much for me. Like, who knows what her answer would be, you know?

[B]

Right.

[C]

But that's why this is interesting because all this is is your perspective of her situation.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, and mine. I don't know you or her.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I'm just generalizing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Having said that, generalizing, you know, works pretty well. So everybody's not like, I'm. I'm a flower. No, you're not. Stop it. All right, hold on one second. For me,

[A]

I'd like to thank the ever since Eversense 365 for sponsoring this episode of the Juice. Box Podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14 days, you want the Eversense CGM. Eversensecgm.com Juicebox 1 Year 1 CGM this episode was sponsored by Touched by Type 1. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram and give them a a follow and then head to touchedbytype1.org where you're going to learn all about their programs and resources for people with type 1 diabetes. The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Moby with Control IQ [e-mail] juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast. I can't thank you enough for listening. Please make sure you're subscribed. You're following in your audio app. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.

[C]

It.