Escaping a Gay Serial Killer and Scott Peterson

Summary

Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald

Episode: Escaping a Gay Serial Killer and Scott Peterson

Date: March 11, 2026
Hosts: Heather McDonald and Drake Dobias

---

Episode Overview

This special episode of Juicy Crimes takes a slightly different format due to a technical mishap with a planned virtual guest. Host Heather McDonald, joined by producer Drake Dobias, dives into a series of true crime cases—ranging from the chilling escape from a gay serial killer in Toronto, to the infamous Scott Peterson case—with their signature blend of dark humor and candid commentary. Beyond these headline stories, Heather and Drake discuss the complexities of victim recognition, sensational media coverage, AI in crime, disturbing family scandals, and cultural depictions of taboo relationships, all while maintaining the podcast’s “lighter side of true crime” tone.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Escaping Bruce MacArthur: Survivor’s Story

00:10–13:12

• Guest Background (Mark Henderson):

  • Mark, a gay man living in early 2000s Toronto, was attacked on Halloween day by a man named Bruce—a figure known within the local community for off-putting behavior.
  • The attack involved Bruce striking Mark over the head with a pipe in broad daylight. Mark managed to escape into his apartment and call 911.

• Police Response & Failures:

  • Mark reported the assault, but police downplayed the incident, accepting Bruce’s characterization of the attack as a “lover’s spat”—reflecting systemic neglect of gay victims at the time.
  • The attacker’s record was eventually wiped clean; Mark was not allowed to participate in the hearing.

• Connecting the Dots:

  • Mark later became an openly gay police officer and, along with others, noticed a disturbing pattern of missing marginalized gay men in the community, largely ignored by authorities.
  • Years later, Bruce MacArthur was arrested. Police found his last intended victim alive and bound in MacArthur’s apartment. MacArthur had killed at least eight men, hiding remains in planters at homes where he worked as a landscaper.

• Cultural & Investigative Insights:

  • Mark felt the police’s neglect cost lives, as early intervention could have stopped MacArthur sooner.
  • Memorable quote:
    “Had they taken his side of it seriously and not just believed, ‘Oh, is this just how gay guys are?’ … who knows how many lives could have been saved?” —Heather, 08:05
  • Mark also shared a sweet story about having written to Princess Diana about his work in pediatric AIDS and receiving a letter back.

• Victim Visibility:

  • Discussion on how serial killers often target marginalized people whose disappearances may not spark major investigations or media attention, making their crimes easier to hide.

2. Louisiana’s Mayor Scandal: The Pool Party Assault

13:13–17:39

• Case Recap:
  • A Louisiana mayor, Misty Roberts, hosted a pool party for her teenage son and friends, drank throughout the day, and assaulted one of the 16-year-old guests.
  • The event caused family and community upheaval, with the mayor encouraging her son to attack the victim and instructing teens to lie.
  • Memorable moment:
    “Lie until you die.” —Text message from the mayor to her son and nephew, paraphrased at 16:41
  • Roberts resigned quietly before being formally charged; faces 7–10 years in prison.
• Cultural Commentary:
  • Heather and Drake discuss the normalization of adult female–teen male relationships in media (Stacy’s Mom, American Pie, etc.) contrasting it with the reality of trauma and criminality.

3. Darren Lee and the ChatGPT Alibi

17:39–23:13

• Case Outline:
  • Former NFL draft pick Darren Lee murdered his girlfriend and tried to cover it up by seeking advice from ChatGPT, asking for ways to explain her injuries.
  • Lee’s AI search history incriminated him further, exemplifying both modern criminal idiocy and the issues with over-sharing with AI.
  • Fun segment: Heather and Drake roleplay ridiculous ChatGPT queries in their signature comedic tone.
    • “In my day we used to know how to murder and cover it up on our own… we just rolled them in a carpet, threw them in our truck.” —Drake, 19:58

4. The Alexander Brothers: Predatory Siblings

25:25–28:44

• Story Summary:
  • Three successful New York brothers (the Alexanders) were convicted as sexual predators after years of acting together to drug and assault women, including underage girls.
  • Vulgar texts and shared videos/blogs supported the charges. Real estate TV personality Tracy Tutor also accused Oren Alexander of assault at a work event.
  • Analysis: The duo discuss the disturbing trend of sibling or group predators desiring to "share" exploits, and the role of digital evidence in these convictions.

5. Scott Peterson: Revisiting the Media Frenzy

28:46–60:02

• Case Introduction:
  • Laci Peterson, pregnant wife of Scott Peterson, disappeared from Modesto, CA in 2002. The case riveted the nation.
  • Timeline & Suspicious Details:
    • Scott claimed to be fishing at the San Francisco Bay on Christmas Eve; discrepancies in his story (washing clothes immediately, resubscribing to porn channels rapidly after disappearance).
    • Police and neighbor reports mix; debate on whether Laci was seen walking her dog after Scott left.
  • The Affair:
    • Scott’s relationship with Amber Frey (to whom he claimed to be a widower) was a major blow to his credibility.
    • Recorded calls—especially Scott pretending to be in Paris during a vigil—were shocking (see 43:24).
  • Body Discovery and Arrest:
    • Laci's and her unborn son's remains were found in the Bay. Evidence suggested bodies were weighted down with homemade anchors.
    • Scott was found in San Diego with cash and dyed hair, fueling suspicion he planned to flee.
  • Debate: Did He Do It?
    • Hosts weigh both sides: prosecution’s view (cheater willing to kill, evidence lining up) vs. alternate theories (botched robbery, other pregnant women missing in the area, insufficient physical evidence in the home).
    • Memorable quote:
      “If he did it… I think it was just: I don’t want this life, or I’ll take this life if I can cheat.” —Heather, 57:30
    • Drake points out the lack of ironclad evidence and the media’s tendency to elevate cases with attractive, “relatable” victims.
    • Jury found Scott guilty; he remains in prison.

6. Party Mom of Los Gatos

60:05–61:46

• Case Recap:
  • A woman dubbed “the party mom” encouraged and observed underage sex and drinking at parties for her teenage children.
  • Found guilty on 60+ counts of child endangerment and related charges; faces up to 10–20 years in prison.
  • Comparison to exploitative YouTube “momagers” who manipulate and sexualize minors for content.

7. Teacher–Student Scandal & True Crime in Pop Culture

62:00–64:54

• Nicole Kidman’s ‘To Die For’ and Other Cases:
  • Discusses a real case inspiring Kidman’s film: a teacher accused of seducing a student and plotting her husband’s murder.
  • Raised broader issues of female-perpetrated crimes, blaming/trial narratives, and the media's fascination with certain women criminals.
  • Parallels drawn to the Long Island Lolita (Amy Fisher) and tropes in TV docuseries.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Had they taken his side of it seriously… who knows how many lives could have been saved?” —Heather (on Bruce MacArthur case, 08:05)
• “Lie until you die.” —Paraphrasing Mayor Misty Roberts, instructing teens to lie about party assault (16:41)
• “In my day we used to know how to murder and cover it up on our own… we just rolled them in a carpet, threw them in our truck.” —Drake, joking about criminals using AI (19:58)
• “Do you think ChatGPT just, like, thinks of other things criminals have said…?” —Heather, 21:30
• “If he did it… I think it was just: I don’t want this life, or I’ll take this life if I can cheat.” —Heather (on Scott Peterson, 57:30)
• “It’s almost always the person that knows them… so rare that someone kills someone that doesn’t know them at all.” —Heather, 58:55
  “I don’t think that’s true at all, really.” —Drake, countering (59:05)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction & Tech Mishap Explained: 00:10–01:14
• Mark Henderson & Bruce MacArthur: 01:14–13:12
• Louisiana Mayor Assault Case: 13:13–17:39
• Darren Lee, ChatGPT & AI in Crime: 17:39–23:13
• Alexander Brothers Predatory Case: 25:25–28:44
• Scott Peterson Saga: 28:46–60:02
• Party Mom of Los Gatos: 60:05–61:46
• Female Perpetrators & Crime in Pop Culture: 62:00–64:54
• Episode Close, Stand-up Promo & Patreon: 66:10–end

---

Analysis & Tone

Throughout, Heather and Drake maintain a balance of irreverence and sensitivity—never making light of victims, but frequently lampooning the incompetence of criminals, bizarre twists, and the quirks of media-driven true crime fascination. There’s a focus on structural and cultural factors that help predators hide (neglected victims, biases in police work, exploitative parents), with a recurring call for broader empathy and accountability.

---

Useful for New Listeners

If you haven’t heard this episode, the summary provides a comprehensive and entertaining roadmap of all major stories discussed—including detailed breakdowns, thought-provoking commentary, and a sample of the hosts’ signature banter and perspective. The true crime focus remains sharp even as Heather and Drake highlight the human (and sometimes absurd) sides behind the headlines.

Transcript

[Heather McDonald]

Foreign.

[Drake Dobias]

Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. Today is a special episode because it is not exactly what we plan to do. This happens sometimes with virtual interviews. I had a great virtual interview with, with a juicy scooper who lived kind of a very horrific, scary crime. That is very juicy. I did the whole interview and it was not salvageable. How would you like to explain? I'm here with Drake, Drake Dobias, who helps produce the show. And when we had to figure out what we were to do, I said, just sit with me, I'll go through crimes and I'll just talk to you. I just didn't feel like doing the whole thing solo. So thanks for joining me, Drake.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, you're welcome. Yeah, so I, we thought that. Okay, I guess I'll have to sub in as the, as the person here. But so to start we're gonna go over just his, his whole story.

[Drake Dobias]

So we got the email. His name's Mark Henderson, he's in Toronto and he said he was a juicy scooper and was great. When we opened up the virtual interview, he was so sweet, said how much he loves Juicy Scoop and how much he enjoys myself and Chris Finchell and all the great guests on it. So that was so nice. But his email caught my attention because it was basically I escaped a gay serial killer. So this happened. He lived in Toronto. He was, he was a gay man, but it was early 2000s and there was this guy that he would kind of know within the community and he didn't care for him. He was kind of weird. One time he like kicked his shit and he was like, whatever. So it was Halloween and that's a big night for the gay community. And it was Halloween, but it was noon, it was daytime and he was getting ready to do this big fun Halloween party. And, and he was good looking guy, he modeled, he acted. And he was going into his apartment 12 noon on a Halloween day and he sees the guy whose name Bruce, and he's just like that guy, I don't want to deal with him. And the guy came up from behind him as he's opening up his door to his apartment and he had like a pipe and he hit him over the head and blood like is gushing. He managed to get into his apartment, he managed to pick up the phone was, which was a landline phone and called 911. This episode of Juicy Crimes is brought to you by Quint. You guys know I love my quints. I know you want that Carolyn Bassette look and, and you're like, where do I get the crisp white blouse. Go to Quint they have it all right now. Go to quint.com juicycrimes for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com juicycrimes for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quite quince.com juicycrimes when it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. With our program our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effect support.

[Heather McDonald]

Weight watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing.

[Drake Dobias]

Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last. Get started for as low as $[e-mail] Medications require eligibility and prescription first month. This was $25 with a 12 month plus plan. Does not include the cost of GLP1 medications. And the Bruce guy took off and when the ambulance and the police came, you know he told him what happened and but Bruce the guy already went to the police station and basically I believe said something to effective I did. There was a physical altercation with someone but you know were gay lovers and at that time according to Mark he just really feels like the police just didn't take gay crimes seriously when it was between two men that the perpetrator could easily just say well we're boyfriends or we're lovers or was a spat and it wasn't. They wouldn't react the same as if it was a woman saying I'm as in a domestic dispute with my husband or partner. But these they weren't even a couple. They had not even dated and I think there was always just sort of a okay, well who knows, you know who knows what goes on in these gay communities. So they really dropped the ball. They did nothing. He did have a hearing but Mark didn't even get to go to it and basically it was Like a sponge from his record that he ever attacked this guy. Then a bunch of years later, Mark goes on to become a police officer for, like, three years and was an out gay police officer, which was really something they hadn't seen. And he was really big on recruitment. But eventually he left the force and, you know, continued to model and live his life. But there were these men that were going missing in the gay community, and they were marginalized men. They were, you know, I believe maybe some of them are Indian or Asian, and. But they didn't have families, or if they were out, they weren't out to their families, so it was hard to keep track. And if they were in an apartment, they would just go missing. And then the landlord would go, I guess I'll just, you know, rent this apartment out to somebody else. And the police were not treating it as if eight women had gone missing. But Mark was like, I. They. This is probably the same guy. There's probably. There's got to be some connection. What's going on? Someone needs to figure out, is there a serial killer on her hands? And the police were like, no, they're not. Then a man went. A final man went missing. Who? He was his friend that was the final victim. So they go to Bruce MacArthur's apartment to arrest him and question him about his connection to these men. And there is a man, his final victim, still alive, tied to the bed. And then what he would do is he would take photos of them, like, with, like, fur coats and things. Then he would take the body and dispose of them. He was a landscaper, so he was putting them in, like, clay pots and, you know, putting their. Yeah, like, bury them and on this big property was able to get rid of them. And this went on. And. And the whole time he had a roommate. He had a roommate who's bringing.

[Heather McDonald]

I guess it's like, Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Drake Dobias]

Did Jeff Dahmer have a roommate?

[Heather McDonald]

Nobody would take pictures of them. I remember that.

[Drake Dobias]

And so he. That guy got to live. The one that was about to be killed. That's. And then they.

[Heather McDonald]

So it's just him and that other survivor, right?

[Drake Dobias]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And how many did they find out that he. That the guy killed?

[Drake Dobias]

I think there were seven or eight. And really, the only way they could really figure out how many there were is he did confess. He did, I guess, tell them where the property was that they were buried on, but they had to go through and, you know, just buy skulls because there were so many bones, they couldn't even put it together. So it was by skulls that they had to. And they realized there were seven or eight skulls.

[Heather McDonald]

And how were the yards that they found them in? Were they well manicured with good drainage?

[Drake Dobias]

I think so. I mean, I don't know. It was. He got away with it for all those years. And so basically what Mark's story was is that he hadn't killed yet. And but if he was, if Mark didn't fight back, that might have been his first kill because he went on to be a prolific serial killer. He was sentenced to life. And also at one point, he. Mark was. When. When the trial, like, he was behind bars, but he hadn't been sentenced yet. And he went, like, on a hookup site to, like, meet some guy. And the guy came over and he's like, oh, my God, I am a prison guard in the prison with the Bruce MacArthur guy. And then Mark is like, oh, my God, you need to resign right now and move prisons or whatever. Because if it gets found out that we hung out and I'm, you know, a witness to this whole thing, I was the first victim. This is going to screw up the whole trial. Like, it could start all over. Well, there was no trial because he did confess. He did get life in prison. He's there still, and he's about 70 years old. But Mark always felt that it just sort of was like this heavy cloud over him. He felt when the news got out that he was tied as, like, this first victim. And the. The police didn't really give him what he should have had because they wanted to, like, push his story away because it showed negligence on their part. Had they taken his side of it seriously and not just believed, oh, is this just how gay guys are? And they were just fighting. And what do we know? If they really had, like, investigated this guy, who knows how many lives could have been saved? So it's very. It's a very weird story that, like, you could have been. You could have been killed and that you came so close to it and you were so lucky. And he was. He was, you know, lovely to talk to. He was so nice. He also said that he worked as a nurse in pediatric aids and he actually wrote Princess Diana and she wrote him back, oh, nice. So then when he said, when I wrote you, I just knew you'd write me back.

[Heather McDonald]

Just like Princess Diana.

[Drake Dobias]

Just like Princess Diana. I'm like, well, so then we do this big interview, and then it was. Was unable to use. But that's a story. It's. I've done some research on it. Since speaking to him. And it is, you know, a very sad story. And it definitely has to do with what it. What kind of victim gets the most attention and what. Which ones don't. And this has been a similar story with serial killers of men and gay men, or maybe they're not gay and they. But the serial killer is gay or wanted to do sexual things with them because they're men and because if they didn't have a big career or families, or maybe they were living a little bit of a nomadic life because they're confused and gay and single, their own family wouldn't even know that they were ever missing. Or they just thought, oh, well, like, we don't hear from Uncle John anymore. And that's why these serial killers were able to get away with so many victims, because they just were not tracking. And also, when you're not JonBenet, when you're not Nancy Guthrie, when you don't have a big presence to keep the story going and keep people searching for you, you know, you just never know what happened to your loved one. And that has happened in the past where all of a sudden someone's like, oh, my God, my brother that went, you know, missing and we never heard from again. And also, this is like before everyone had a cell phone from whatever 20 years ago. Then they're like, well, now we know he's one of the. He's been successfully ID'd. So that was that. That's the first story of Juicy crimes today. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Let's move on to the next.

[Drake Dobias]

We're gonna move on to the next Drake. There's certain stories that I'm going to tell you that if you were not grateful for the mother that God gave you, this will make you that much more grateful.

[Heather McDonald]

All right, let's hear it.

[Drake Dobias]

Sometimes it's fun to have a famous mom, right? Stand up comedian.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

Would it be fun if your mom was the mayor?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. The mayor of what?

[Drake Dobias]

Well, it wasn't fun for this boy because his mom was a mayor in Louisiana. She was on her second term and she was 43 years old, and she had a fun pool party for her son and his friends. And her nephew was there as well. So a bunch of teenage boys, all about 16.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Drake Dobias]

Were enjoying a fun pool party. She started drinking at 3. Nothing wrong with that. Okay. It's a hot summer day in Louisiana, and she started flirting with one boy, and she lured him upstairs and shut the door to. And according to his testimony, had her way with him, raped him. Okay. Because he's 16. And he didn't know what was going on. And he did have a girlfriend. And it was very traumatic because it all came out later so that, you know, the girlfriend broke up with him.

[Heather McDonald]

And what year did this happen?

[Drake Dobias]

24.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Drake Dobias]

20. 24. So then the son is like, what the hell is going on, mom? And then she's like, you should go beat up your friend because we just hooked up, so you should go kick the out of him. And then the nephew was like, what is happening? She was already divorced or getting divorced. And she, they. They pulled up text messages between she and her ex husband. And she does say, like, I up. Like, I. I've screwed up. This is bad. Once she was arrested, she immediately, you know, stepped down from being mayor. But she didn't say why. It was just like a nice letter, like, good luck. I'm on to other things. She has been. Her Name's Misty Roberts, 43. And now she is facing sentences of up to 10 and seven years in prison after this. July 2024, sexual assault at a pool party. And so she's fa. Facing about like 10 to seven. Seven to 10 years, I guess. And. And, you know, they all took the stand and it's just like, how would you deal with that, Drake? I mean, that's pretty.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, that's. I think that's pretty rough for the kid. I don't know. Are they still friends after this?

[Drake Dobias]

I mean, they had to see each other at the courtroom, the courthouse, because I think they all had to testify because they pulled up the text messages from everybody. And one of the texts was like, she says she told the boys, the son and her nephew, you better lie. Lie. Do not say I was alone with him and everything. And they went back and forth and it was like, lie until you die.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, you mean she would tell the kids to lie?

[Drake Dobias]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Drake Dobias]

When they were getting questioned and whatnot had happened and, you know, it's just. Yeah, it's really. It's really bad. I mean, this has become such a common thing with, like, I feel like

[Heather McDonald]

it happens all the time now with

[Drake Dobias]

female teachers hitting on the boys. And, you know, we had songs that would, like, make it seem cool, you know, like, Stacy's mom is getting it. Like, there was a whole thing of, like a song about a guy more into this girl in high school, her mom. And there was a movie in. Also in the movie, like, I think it was. Was it Valley Girls, one of these movies where, you know, the guy the young kid, like, sleeps with, like, the 40 year old mom and it was just like, oh, that's like sexy and Stifler's mom and American Pie and things like that. It was always just like glamorized. Now I think they know that always

[Heather McDonald]

say it's like, oh, the director was like, like trying to like they make up these stories or something about.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, I think they just like, you know, you, you just. It sort of becomes like, I don't know, normalized somehow because you saw it and it was comedic and the guys liked it and it wasn't that bad. But I mean if that is a young man's first experience with a much older woman as old as his mother, that will you up just like a young girl. Like, it's horrible. So I'm glad that she's going to do her time. We'll know I think in April how much time she gets, but I think it'll be a lot. Like seven years. It's probably at least I think. Now this story is very sad. This poor girl was murdered by her boyfriend who at one time was a Jets draft pick. And it appears that he beat her and stabbed her to the point that she died. Died. And one of the things that they, one of the ways we. They caught him improving that he did it is after it, he used another. Something that you're very interested in is chat GPT.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

When I read this story, I was like, you need to read this article. So why don't you talk about.

[Heather McDonald]

When you showed me this story, I immediately thought of like this one Tik Tok, where it was like, oh, you want to see my private photos? Yeah, here, go ahead. Here's my phone. And then it was like, oh, you want to see my chat gbt? And then they chuck the phone and throw it out the window, you know, because like now everyone asks Chad GBT their most personal questions, I feel like. But yeah, like, I mean this, this one was funny. I think we read on it and they were saying like the chat GBT was like, let's see what it said here.

[Drake Dobias]

Yeah, I mean it's pretty pathetic. I mean, not only is this guy a murderer, but it just goes to show you that our youth are dumb murderers. I mean, they don't even know how to cover up a murder themselves without the use of AI.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, so what he said, like in

[Drake Dobias]

my day we used to know how to murder and cover it up on our own. We didn't have to look it up in an encyclopedia. We just did it. We just rolled them in a carpet, threw them in our truck. Put them near the trash, I guess.

[Heather McDonald]

Why would you go through all that thinking when a computer could just think of it for you?

[Drake Dobias]

You're right. Why. Why do anything?

[Heather McDonald]

This is what he. He said. Don't know what to do right now.

[Drake Dobias]

Sorry. His name is Darren Lee, by the way. Go on.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, Darren Lee. He asked Chat gbt. I don't know what to do right now. Fiance did her crazy thing again and now she's messed up. I wake up and she has two swollen eyes. I didn't do anything. Self inflicted. She stabbed herself, slit her eye. I don't know. But she ain't. She isn't waking up or responding. What do I do then? ChatGPT responds with Got it. Here's exactly the safest way to handle it without framing it as police trouble. Can a slip and fall cause the puncture runes? So it's like thinking of different things, right?

[Drake Dobias]

Could that. That's a good thing? Yeah, you could say. You could say she slipped and fell and something was off.

[Heather McDonald]

Could the puncture runes be a slip and fall? Okay. Yeah, I'll think of that.

[Drake Dobias]

That's a good one. Like, the knife could have been standing up. She could have slip and fall into like the. The knife rack or whatever, and it could have been upward.

[Heather McDonald]

I can help you sanity check whether it lines up with a slip and fall or if it's something that should be evaluated asap.

[Drake Dobias]

God.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, that is. That is kind of funny.

[Drake Dobias]

What an idiot. Like, you're just such an idiot.

[Heather McDonald]

So do you think the Chat GPT, like just thinks of like other things criminals have said or like ways. Just ways to get. It's kind of like just a lawyer, but, you know, it's being tracked.

[Drake Dobias]

Like I've always thought of, like, what if I woke up and Peter was just like dead next to me? Which this one guy did. Say, would you ask chat?

[Heather McDonald]

What do I do?

[Drake Dobias]

I would never ask chatgpt because I know more than that. But I always thought, like, what would you say or do? How would you explain that? Actually there was a case with a guy who blamed it on like. Like sleepwalking. I don't remember killing her, but I did it before. But so I think, you know. Yeah. Like, I know I would not be calling if I said, you know, hi, you know, hey, hey, Chat gps. What do you do? Call it a name when you ask it. Like when you. When we do the thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Like now there's so many different AIs. It's like you could ask the Gronk AI or the Google.

[Drake Dobias]

Like my. Yeah, I pushed my husband's down the stairs and now he won't get up.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, has he always had a walking problem before? Or is this something new that I should address?

[Drake Dobias]

Well, no, he can walk. Okay. But when I. But I kicked him and now he's lying there and not moving.

[Heather McDonald]

Here's some remedies that can help him walk again. Rub a lemon on your forehead and, you know, with a candle. Or you can also go to the doctor's office. Like, what? Yeah. What is it gonna say? I mean, it just gives you. That's. That's why I use chat. GPT. I can't think of these answers myself.

[Drake Dobias]

So amazing. This episode of Juicy Crimes is brought to you by Quince. You guys know I love my quints. I love to update my closet and my wardrobe and get me excited for spring. I know you want that Carolyn Bessette look. I know we all do. And you're like, where do I get the crisp white blouse? Where do I get the light trench? Go to Quint's. They have it all. And what I love is that they work with ethical factories so you know that you're getting quality clothes. Also, their clothing is consistently graded for 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers. Real people wearing these pieces every day that actually love them. Like me right now. Go to quince.com juicycrimes for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last. Go to q u I-n c e.com juicycrimes or for free shipping and 365 day returns, quints.com juicycrimes why have we asked our contractor we found on angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us.

[Heather McDonald]

Are you my dad now? No, sorry. I do basements, connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust, find pros for all your home [e-mail] why have I asked my electrician I found on angie.com to bury my pet hamster nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end, huh? Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled Pros for over 30 years, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

[Drake Dobias]

well, this is, this is a, a, a crazy story. These brothers, we've talked about it briefly before that this says now they've been convicted so they're very successful. It was their three brothers are, two are twins and their names are, they're called the Alexander brothers. There's three of them. One worked in finance and two worked in real estate. And they're all good looking New York wearing a suit kind of guys and they worked in New York real estate. And the case was 11 different witnesses I think took the stands. Some of them were under 18 when they came in contact with the, with the brothers. And their stories were all very similar in that they would pursue them, you know, text them, get them to come or get them near. They would drug them and then sexually assault them. And I believe there were several of them doing things at the same time to the girls or sharing them and, and then they would share the information with each other. It's all been in the text messages. They were all convicted for it. And it's these vulgar messages boast about needing to hunt more prey. And a vile rape blog and disturbing graphic footage were among the trove of evidence used to finally bring an end to the years long reign of sexual terror. Terror inflicted by these infamous Alexander brothers. And it's really, it's really crazy that, that they did it and that they did it together. And I always think that's just the weirdest part is that like you would, you'd think if you were this sick of a, that you would just want to keep it to yourself, but they don't. They never do. That's why people always get in trouble for sharing child porn and things they want to share. They don't want to be the only sick one in the group. But million dollar listing former star because that shows no longer on Tracy Tudor. She is suing Oren, one of the brothers because she was at a party, a Douglas Elliman party in New York City in 2014. So she claims this is what happened. She, he gave her a drink, she felt woozy and then her friend like found her in a bathroom with him, like in a stall. He was assaulting her. And she has filed a lawsuit as well. And then she filed it right before they were. The trial ended and they were convicted of the crime. And then their attorneys were saying, oh, you know, she's just bringing this up now for attention. You know, the. These guys were maybe a little, you know, pursuant in women, but they never did anything that wasn't consensual. But now that they've been convicted, I think she'll win her lawsuit, too. But I don't know how much they'll be desiring to want to settle it or fight it if they're going to be doing, like, decades in prison. So that's a sad story.

[Heather McDonald]

Yep, lots of sad stories here.

[Drake Dobias]

Okay, here's a murder that I know I've talked to you about. But A E is preparing to air a new documentary series revisiting this case of Scott Peterson, who was convicted in the 2002 murders of his wife, Lacey Peterson, and his unborn son. What do you know about this story, Drake?

[Heather McDonald]

I think I know nothing about this story.

[Drake Dobias]

Oh, okay. Well, feel free to ask questions as we go. So this story I was really obsessed with. It was when regular news was where it was at. Like, you'd watch. The news was on. I was newly married. I was either pregnant with you. Wait, I would have. I think. No, I would have just had you because it was 2002, and you. You were born then. Okay. So this young mother, Lacey Peterson, was married to her college sweetheart in Modesto, which is in California. And they were a young, cute couple, and they had a little cute house. And she was expecting the baby. She was probably, like eight or nine months pregnant right around Christmas time. And on Christmas Eve, he decided to go fishing in the San Francisco Bay. He said he was going to golf, but it was too cold for golf.

[Heather McDonald]

I think I actually do remember this story now.

[Drake Dobias]

He said it was too cold for golf. So he's going to go fishing in the San Francisco Bay instead. Yeah, he was the last to see her, and he took off. And then when he came home from ship, from the fishing, the dog was. Had a leash on still, and Lacy was nowhere to be found. And someone had seen the dog, like, outside of the gate of the house and, like, let the dog in the gate. So the dog went in the gate, and then he came home, and the dog was there, and Lacy wasn't there. So then he called her mom. And he's. What was weird from. And this is all, like, from my recollection of all the TV shows and everything I've Read. So it's not going to be completely 100% accurate. But what I recall, the things that stuck out to me is when he called the mother, he was like, lacey's missing. And I just think that's such a weird thing to say. Like, if you guys came home and you thought I was going to be home, but I wasn't, and you called my cell and I didn't answer, or maybe my cell was left at the house. I mean, would the first thing you do is to call one of my friends and be like, heather is missing? Or would you be like, is Heather at your house? Like, would you call, like, my friend Karen?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I guess, because, like, we can track you basically whenever on your Find My Friends.

[Drake Dobias]

Right. But I'm saying.

[Heather McDonald]

But let's say your phone died.

[Drake Dobias]

Or let's say my phone was in the house.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay? Yeah, the phone was in the house

[Drake Dobias]

and I'm not here. I think your first thought would be like, maybe.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I would just wait at least a couple hours.

[Drake Dobias]

Yeah, you would wait a couple hours for sure. And then if I didn't come home, then maybe you'd be like, all right, let's text her pickleball friend. Maybe she played pickleball and is over there having a glass of wine.

[Heather McDonald]

Wait, and is your car here? Or your car is here?

[Drake Dobias]

The car is here.

[Heather McDonald]

I think what I would do first is go to. Yeah, I think I would go to the gate and see if they. They saw you leave.

[Drake Dobias]

I mean, that's when you start to get worried. Like, did it. But if the car is here and everything. They didn't live in a gated community. And this was. This was 23 years ago.

[Heather McDonald]

Also, like, check the cameras and be like, all right, let me.

[Drake Dobias]

They didn't have cameras.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, exactly.

[Drake Dobias]

See, there's a lot of digital tracking that, you know, we just didn't have. So she didn't have a cell phone? There was nothing about a cell phone or a page.

[Heather McDonald]

This story. It was like, what? He left at 5am to go fishing and then came back at like, 7?

[Drake Dobias]

I don't think it was 5am but it was the morning. And he came at the end of the day and he did the classic. Where on the way back from the fishing, he left some real sweet messages. Hey, baby girl, it's me. I don't think I can get. I don't. I'm coming back from fishing. I don't think I'm enough. Time to get papa the basket you wanted for Christmas. But I will see you soon. Okay. Okay. Bye, beautiful girl. Bye. Like all just like the really nice messages. And so then, you know, then there was a panic because she's very pregnant and she's petite. She's a little thing. And.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah. And then they were also like, neighbors were like, I thought I saw a pregnant woman walking around this morning, right?

[Drake Dobias]

So she was very pregnant. She had dark hair, she was cute. And they had it like a very, I think like a golden retriever. They had like a distinct dog. So they did, they said, did, you know, wait a minute. She was obviously walking dog. The first thought is the dog came back. So what the hell happened on this walk? Did she fall somewhere? You know, so they started to look in the, in the area around the park. Like, you know, Lacey, like, oh, my God, I twisted my ankle. The dog, dog racked, you know, that's your first thought. You're praying someone tripped and fell and they're like stuck somewhere. Let's look in the immediate area. When they couldn't find her. Then it started to get a lot of news. It just was like. And what happens with these missing cases is they realize this is what people are tuning into tonight at 6pm updates on missing Lacy Peterson. So that then they go, oh, my God, everybody watched that news report. Just keep going. They sent out their reporters. Just get any story. You can talk to neighbors. And that's why one story gets so much coverage and another one might not. It's because people are actually like, interested and news is a business too. So they want to have the stories. So the police come and they, you know, are kind of like looking around now. He did immediately take off his clothes for from the fishing trip and wash them. Nobody knows how every family works, but one would say she's the stay at home mom preparing for this baby. He is a salesman that does, like, conventional stuff. He likes something with like lawnmowers or some type of fertilization. I don't know. So I don't know what he throwing it in the basket. Like, would he have really started his own wash or was he washing something off of it?

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I also don't do any fishing at all.

[Drake Dobias]

So you don't know how smelly. You might be a smelly thing. And you want to get that fish scent off of you asap. If I was him, I'd be like, she hates when I come home with fish smell.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, now should we like, did they ever find the body or are we getting to that?

[Drake Dobias]

They did, but I was like, I'm going to walk you through it? No, in the ocean. This will be. Walk you through.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Drake Dobias]

Because we, We're. They're going to examine if he's innocent. He did get convicted for it. Okay. He's still on, you know, he's been taken off death row. He's not going to. Because he's not on death row.

[Heather McDonald]

You still don't know if he's guilty? Like.

[Drake Dobias]

No, he is guilty.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

But there's always been a question of did they just jump to the conclusion of the husband too soon? Now, the area from everything that was filmed looks like a cute neighborhood. But there had been other women missing, women of color that were not as adorable with big dimples and didn't. Wasn't getting the footage. And there were a couple of them were pregnant. Okay. In around that time, there was a couple pregnant women that went missing that were never found. And there were some weird stories about things going on. Also, their street was cute and safe, but there was some unsavoriness within the neighborhood that could have, you know, creeped closer. Now, this is the biggest, the, the most conclusive thing that could have happened besides Scott being upset with her, them getting in a fight and him killing her at either on purpose or accidentally and then getting rid of the body the next day in the sea was there was a robbery across the street. And this is very significant because one report said the robbery happened that morning, the people were out of town, and the robbery happened that morning. The next, then the other report was, no, the robbery happened after she'd already been missing. Well, after she'd already been missing. There was already all these, you know, news vans and everything. Someone's not going to go just rob this house across the street. So the story of the defense theory and the people that believe he is innocent is one of two things. Either one, she was a feisty little thing and she saw that her neighbors were gone and somebody was trying to rob the house. And either they saw her or she confronted them or something happened. They took her in the van, killed her and threw her in the. In the sea. Okay. Now someone would say, well, isn't it coincidental that her body washed up on the sea that he was fishing in many months later? Someone else would say, well, they maybe had her for a while, either her dead body or body. Remember this, saw the news and thought, we'll throw it in there to frame him. That's where we're going to put the body. But these robbers were eventually, like, found and arrested. And it wasn't a sophisticated operation that they would do that, but we don't know. Happens people that had no intention of killing somebody and they're just robbers. Someone infiltrates their plan and. And sometimes people die. Okay, so I'm doing both sides of it now. The next day that she's missing, he reinstates his porn channel. But he was no longer that he was not enjoying when she was around.

[Heather McDonald]

He was able to resubscribe.

[Drake Dobias]

Now he called it up and had the cable brought on for the porn.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Drake Dobias]

Now, someone would say, well, if she's missing and she's hopefully going to come back any day, you might want to wait just in case the other is, well, you might enjoy your few days alone before.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I'll. Let me take this time off the old ball.

[Drake Dobias]

And Shane comes back and enjoy whacking off while you miss your wife.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Drake Dobias]

But the biggest bombshell was he had a girlfriend.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

And there was this girl named Amber Fry, and she was blonde and cute. And somebody met Scott and thought he was single because he told him that and was like, oh, you should meet my friend Amber. So he meets Amber, who's a single mother studying to be a massage therapist. And they just hit it off that, you know, he's super into her kid. He actually picks up the daughter one day from school, and he tells her, this Christmas is going to be hard because I'm a widow and this will be my first Christmas without my wife.

[Heather McDonald]

Wait, well, he said this before this?

[Drake Dobias]

He said this while she's living and he's cheating on her.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Drake Dobias]

And then they went to a Christmas party together, and he took a photo with her, like, sitting on Santa's lap at someone's house now.

[Heather McDonald]

And then he's like, all right, I guess I'm going fishing tomorrow.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, okay. So then this girl is busy with her daughter and she's really not watching the news. She's just not a news watcher. I couldn't believe this part of the story because maybe because I was obsessed with it, but it's the same thing with an algorithm. When you are watching something all the time, you're like, what do you mean you don't know about the Epstein files? Like, you don't have to. And the same thing with the tv. If you don't turn it on, if you're not reading the paper, you wouldn't know. And you're a busy single mom and you're working. And so her friend goes, oh, my God, the guy that you're dating is on the news talking about how his, you know, praying for his wife's safe return. And she's pregnant.

[Heather McDonald]

And she didn't even know that he had a wife at the. Because, oh, yeah, she was told the

[Drake Dobias]

wife died, and there was no kid at all. So then she's like, oh, my God. So she does the right thing. She goes to the police, and she says, I am Amber Fry, and I have been dating Scott Peterson for, like, whatever, the last five weeks or something. And they're like, okay, we're going to tap your phone calls. We're going to tape the phone calls. So call them. So he's telling her, as the traveling salesman, I can't spend New Year's Eve with you because I will be in Paris working. So New Year's Eve comes. She's been missing now five days or five or six days. And they have a midnight vigil. Or not a midnight, but a candlelight vigilant. While the vigil's going on and all the news is there and people are singing, you know, amazing Grace or whatever. He goes with his cell phone, and he calls Amber, and he's like, hey, it's me. The cops are listening. Oh, my God. It's crazy. It's already New Year's Eve here in Paris, and it's like the fireworks just went off at the Eiffel Tower. And, like, this is just, like, crazy, crazy. And. And she's like, oh, my gosh, it's amazing. That's so beautiful. Okay, so that's one call. I mean, and then they do another call.

[Heather McDonald]

And he was actually in Paris, though?

[Drake Dobias]

No, he was at the candlelight vigil.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, he was. Okay.

[Drake Dobias]

And he's acting like he's had Paris, so he's keeping the romance going. Why have I asked my h vac guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts, I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.

[Heather McDonald]

Make it quick, young man. Aw.

[Drake Dobias]

See? Pop up trusts you.

[Heather McDonald]

I think we should call a doctor. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]. if you're tackling a home project, check out angie.com. from roofing to remodels and everything in between, Angie connects you with skilled pros who do such a good job, you might trust them to do other things like pull out your tooth or be your kid's Godfather, don't actually ask them to do those things. Just let them get the job done.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, Angie, the one you trust to

[Heather McDonald]

find the ones you trust, find a pro for your [e-mail].

[Drake Dobias]

that's a n g I dot com. Now, his defense, which was Mark Garagos, famed attorney, was like, this guy's a cheater. He may have even cheated before. Amber Fry. Amber Fry ain't that great. You're not going to kill your wife for Amber Fry. But the prosecution is saying, and I'm saying, if you were just fucking around with this girl, cheating on your wife, maybe you were scared that you're going to be a dad, whatever, and then your wife goes missing. I would never call this chick again. But if you really like her and you really care for her and you think it's all going to work out, that your wife's never going to be found, then you want to keep the sure thing going. He said, I kept talking to her because I didn't want her to turn on me when she eventually found out that my. That I'd lied to her and I had a wife. So I was still keeping it going like we were a real couple. So she cooperates. She gets Gloria Allred to represent her because she's like, right away, I know I'm going to be pinned and as, like, this scarlet letter on my thing, my chest. I'm this horrible woman that took you, broke up this family, caused this man to be so in lust with me that he chose to kill his pregnant wife. So. And I'm. And also, there's probably a book deal in here in which Gloria Allred also. I probably helped secure that. So he. His family is on his side of. In the beginning, Lacy's parents are like, scott is innocent. This is insane that anyone think would think that the husband would do it. They eventually, when the Amber Fry thing comes out, they're like, you, Scott. Now we know you did it. Tell us what happened, where she is. He denies, denies, denies. And he's from San Diego or his family's in San Diego, and he goes down to San Diego and they're like, okay, it's time. We need to arrest him now, because, oh, this was it. They didn't arrest him until they found the body. Yeah, okay. And the body, I never really understood this part, but a torso first came, which I think was her. Was her. And then, like, the baby had, like, I guess, extracted. I don't know how it came out through the skin or through the vagina, but it came out I still never understood this part. So I want to find out. They found the baby as well, and they said, oh, my God, like, you

[Heather McDonald]

know, maybe, like, whatever happened, is that, like, the deterioration. Yeah, like, he maybe tied her by her hands and ankles, but then, like, after a week, your body starts to float because of, like, all the gas in you. So then her stomach, I guess, like, detached from the rest of her body, and then the baby just fell out.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, what they also found was he had made his own concrete anchor things.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah, I remember this. Yeah. And. But they never found, like, the legs and stuff.

[Drake Dobias]

Right. But then also it's like, well, yeah, you need those concrete anchor things when you go fishing. So, I mean. Yeah, the defense, over the years after he was convicted, I think they may have not had this in the first trial. They did a reenactment to see on this tiny boat with someone that was her size and weight. Could you throw her off the boat without it capsizing?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, because it was a very small boat. Right.

[Drake Dobias]

And they did the experiment, and it looked like you couldn't accomplish that, but then another person does it, and then it worked, and they are able to do it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

You know, maybe. Maybe. Maybe that was all part of the keeping one weight on the side. Who knows? And then, like. But, you know, it was a very cold day. You're fishing by yourself. He didn't bring home any fish. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I don't know. Like, isn't fishing, like, hard maybe?

[Drake Dobias]

Exactly.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, So I guess it's all plausible, but it's still pretty obvious. They think that a.

[Drake Dobias]

It could have been the robber thing could have happened. That's plausible. And they got rid of her and. And either put it in the sea because of him or because that's where they put it. The other part was there. Was. Was she taken for some satanic ritual because she was pregnant. There were these two other, like, Latino women that were killed, too, that were never found or whatever, that were pregnant and murdered. So then when they. So then when they. The bodies were found, they were like, okay, we have a body. Now the DA Is saying, go, you can arrest Scott now in San Diego. They already had a tracker on his car or whatever. They knew where he was when they pulled him over. They presented it to the news. He's in San Diego. He's headed for the border. He has $8,000 in cash or something like that. And he had dyed his hair blonde.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

The other side of it is he had that money because he was going to either buy A car or had just sold a car. So he had the cash from that and he dyed his hair because he was so famous and he didn't want to be recognized everywhere and have people yell at him as a baby killer.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I.

[Drake Dobias]

And he did live in San Diego. That's where the parents lived. Doesn't mean you're going to run to Mexico because you're in San Diego.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I mean there's, I guess there's not enough proof that he was.

[Drake Dobias]

So he's his sister in law. His brother's wife has made it her mission for the last 25 years or whatever. It's been 20 something years he's been in prison to prove his innocence and she's done numerous things. If anybody knows her, I, I would love to have her on Juicy Crimes and, and talk to her about it.

[Heather McDonald]

He still says he's innocent.

[Drake Dobias]

He still says he's innocent. He doesn't have to walk in the shackles anymore because he's not on death row, but for the first like 15, 17 years or whatever.

[Heather McDonald]

What do you mean? You're always in shackles if you're on

[Drake Dobias]

death row, you're meeting someone to talk to them.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, okay.

[Drake Dobias]

And so the sister said when he walked in, she's like, why is this walk different? And she realized that every time she met with him, the sister in law, he had to walk in with the shackles. Now he doesn't. I don't know that he has girlfriends. You know, we know about the Menendez brothers who've been married and cheating, cheating on their wives and everything. I don't know that he's ever gotten anyone. He has always said he was innocent. Only recently has he like done interviews or whatever. Or maybe there just wasn't a real interest in it. I do think there is significant questionable stuff of other scenarios that could have happened. I do think there could be something now, you know, when I say all that stuff, it just seems like, come on, Heather. Yeah, but there could be something in that. Maybe he just was like, maybe he's on the spectrum. Maybe he isn't a super sensitive guy. Maybe he is a narcissist, he is a cheater. Maybe when she went missing he was concerned, but he was also just like, oh my God, like I didn't want this and I don't know where she is. It's so weird because it is your child. So I don't know why you wouldn't be freaking out more. He also said he continued to do interviews and stuff like that because he wanted the search to continue. He didn't go, no, I'm not going to talk to anybody.

[Heather McDonald]

But also, I almost feel like that, like, obviously there's. There's not proof, but I feel like when you do all those interviews, it's because you're trying to, you know, talk your way out of it and, like, kind of shows that you're lying more. Because I always think of, like, that one guy that killed his family, and he did all the interviews all the time.

[Drake Dobias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You know which one? The Utah guy, I think Denver. Oh, Denver.

[Drake Dobias]

No, no. You mean the one that killed his wife and two daughters and put them in the oil refinery.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, he only. He only. No, he didn't do all the interviews.

[Heather McDonald]

No, he didn't.

[Drake Dobias]

No. They found out, like, within, like, 48 hours. It was like we knew it was him. So there wasn't a lot of time to do.

[Heather McDonald]

But still, those first two years, there's

[Drake Dobias]

been a lot of men that are family annihilators who then do act like this is, you know, devastating.

[Heather McDonald]

So do you think that he did it?

[Drake Dobias]

I do think that there is enough weird. And there's just still the people that swear that they saw her, you know, at these hours, walking the dog. Which means that if anybody saw her walking the dog, then he didn't kill her because he had to kill her, get her in the truck, put her on the boat and dump her. So anybody that saw her past nine o' clock walking the dog, because he has the time stamp of when he went into the.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

Drop to do the boat. So if any. Those people, they're just like, you saw another lady. You saw another lady who was pregnant. You. You did not see Lacy Peterson. She was already murdered. And. And I guess never found any evidence of any blood or any struggle or anything in the house. So. So then someone. I remember someone said, oh, she used to like to float in her pool because of her back hurting because of being pregnant. I think he, like, drowned her in the pool and then there would be nothing there. I thought, I'm like, it's December in Modesto. It's too cold outside in a pool.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, there's no. No.

[Drake Dobias]

But the most. What people think is she found out about the affair and she was like, oh, fuck you. You're going to be selling that manure for 18 years. I'm going to get half your money. You're never going to see your kid. And. And it just. He snapped. She's tiny, you know, smothered her. Whatever. Then was like, oh, shit. Okay, let me figure this out. Took the day to figure it out, to say, I'm not gonna golf if it's too cold to golf. You would never choose to go on the San Francisco. Whatever place it was, the Berkeley water, whatever he was, Took the body, put it in the boat, did the whole thing, and then planned the voice messages coming home and, you know, knew that she was gone. That's why you got the porn channel back. That's why you still pursued this girl. But when I've seen the reports of, like, the other reasons why he did things, they are logical in, like, going, well, I want it. I just didn't want her to turn on me, so I was just, like, keeping it going, you know, with the girl?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I mean, I think he did it, but I don't know. Like, you don't think there was enough proof?

[Drake Dobias]

I think. I think he did it. Obviously, if she was my friend, daughter, sister, I would never want him out. But if something was to happen and that he was to get another trial, I do think there was enough things that just. With a hundred percent, without a doubt. I don't know if I could have 100 without a doubt that somebody else.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, did a jury vote for this?

[Drake Dobias]

There are creepy people. There are people that kill people all the time that don't know them, that don't have a motive. And it could. I think it could have happened.

[Heather McDonald]

And did the jury, like, was it a jury?

[Drake Dobias]

Yeah, it was a jury. And he also just, like, looked like a dick. And then. But my. My friend, you know, her, Heather, she lived in Modesto. And right when it happened, like, years after it happened, we reconnected at, like, a high school reunion. And she said they belonged to my country club. And we used to call them the fighting couple that she used to see them, she'd seen before.

[Heather McDonald]

Wow.

[Drake Dobias]

And another juicy scooper reached out to me years ago when I first talked about this, and she said, my husband worked in that business. And we were at home, and the news came up about him and the missing wife. And he had a spoon, and he dropped his spoon, and he's like, wait, what? That guy's married? And she's like, why? And he goes, I was just at a convention with him, and he was telling everybody who was single he was collecting numbers. So I think he was a serious. He was a serial cheater. And I think he just was like, I don't want this life, or I'll take this life if I can cheat. And that's why I think she. If I. If he did it, which I think a 90% he did, but I think it's compelling. It's an interesting case because there are. It's not ironclad. It's just not. And I think that's what's intriguing about it to people that are involved in crimes. And this is like one of those crimes I always come back to. And, and, you know, people that, you know, live there or whatever get mad at me when I even think that maybe, maybe there was something else. But yeah, I think, I think he was fine cheating and he was fine with her having a kid, but once he maybe was like, oh, fuck, like, I can't get out of this now.

[Heather McDonald]

Also, it's almost always like the person that knows them. Right? Like, I feel like it's so rare that someone kills someone that doesn't know them at all.

[Drake Dobias]

I don't think that's true at all, really. Oh my God. Like, I mean, look, with Elizabeth Smart, it was the creepy guy. It wasn't her dad. It was a creepy guy that worked on the roof and came back and took her. There's so many. There's all the random people that, you know, a girl's jogging and they're taking her by the ponytail and killing her because they can. No, I think there's bad people. And I think, I think the most logical thing that happened if, if he did not do it was somehow she disrupted the robbery across the street and in a panic they took her or killed her on the spot and, and did away with the body. That's. That's who. I. I don't think. I don't think it was more. And then that would have made sense that the people did see her on her walk and it happened on her walk. All right, there we go.

[Heather McDonald]

Let's do the next one.

[Drake Dobias]

Well, this one was another. This lady in Los Gatos. She is known as the party mom. And she was found guilty after a three month trial. And she would have parties for her kids. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

And yeah, I did some research.

[Drake Dobias]

Okay. Would you like to tell this?

[Heather McDonald]

Sure. I could tell you it. So she would. During 2020 and 2021, they said during COVID times. Where was she from? Florida or something?

[Drake Dobias]

No, it's Los Gatos.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh yeah, Los Gatos. Yeah. And she would host parties for like 14 year olds and get them all drunk and her thing was that she would basically encourage them to have sex and then I guess she would just watch as her weird pleasure. But their argument is. Well, since she wasn't the One committing these acts.

[Drake Dobias]

Like, should she really be held to a point of like prison term?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, because she was like found guilty on 60 charges. And I think what. What is she facing, like 10 or

[Drake Dobias]

20 years, like a child endangerment. So she. It wasn't like. I think the difference is if. If the kids were having the parties themselves.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Drake Dobias]

And they, you know, snuck. The parents were gone and they got drunk and they fooled around. Like, in my day, this sounds like she provided the alcohol, encouragement, encouraged it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Drake Dobias]

And. And Sickly got off on them hooking up. Do you know that was the accusation with Piper. Piper Raquel.

[Heather McDonald]

What was the accusation?

[Drake Dobias]

When Piper had this now famous only fans girl, when Piper had this big YouTube following, her mother would like encourage. Would. They'd kind of recruit other YouTube kids.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah. And then she.

[Drake Dobias]

And they would almost make like a fake reality show. They'd be like, you're a couple now and like you're going to make out, you're going to fight, you're going to da D da and they. And they'd have them film all day long. And it was like during co. And some of these other single moms had all been living in the house together. And then if the kid was just like, I don't want to do it anymore. Like, I'm exhausted. We have to do all these pranks. And it's all fake. Like, they make it real, but it was all fake. And if they said no, then they would be like, well, we just don't want to do anymore, but at least I still have my. Whatever amount of followers. And then she would be like, well, Jesse's not our friend anymore. And like. And then all her followers would like, stop following Jesse. And so then they end up. I mean, I think it's weird getting paid. They weren't getting paid. And no, it was so it was a very creepy thing that the sexualization of your kid with other kids, whether you're molesting them or not, it's the sexualization and like encouraging it. Very weird. This reminds me of another amazing real story. Okay. This one was a woman, was a teacher, and she and her husband were young and married and they had a nice house. And the prosecution believes that she sexually got involved with these one boy. And I think his friend was around, but he. I think it was one boy that she got him to come and kill her husband. She always said, yes, I had sex with this teenage student. She ran like a. Like a, you know, like a little TV class or something. But I did not tell him to kill my husband. That was always. And then that the prosecution always wants to get the vixen, the cheating woman, and she is still in prison today. And it was the. The role was played by Nicole Kidman. They did, like, a movie about it in kind of like a dark comedy way. And. And this is another case that's coming back on Nightline. 35 years after being convicted, she's still saying, I'm innocent. I did not plan for this guy to kill my. This. This young kid to kill my husband. It's the same thing with the Long. Long Island Lolita. She always said that Joey Buttafuoco, like, told her to go shoot. Mary Jo, That's a new. That's a story that's coming out. There's a new document about that one, I think, coming out. There's been so much that's been done about it, or maybe it's already out. She. And he always said, no, Yeah, I had sex with you, but I never told you to come kill my wife, so.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, let's just hope they can keep it under an hour.

[Drake Dobias]

The dock.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. There's nothing worse than a doc that's three episodes long. You don't realize until you're 45 minutes in and you're to the first one. Yeah. And you're like, how is it going to end? There's only 15 minutes left. And you're like, oh, it's part one.

[Drake Dobias]

I've gotten caught a couple times tricking you into that.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah. Where you.

[Drake Dobias]

Where you thought it was now? Yes, but they thought it was one thing. And he was like, where's that? I'm like, well, this is the first episode. He's like, how I know that now? They stretch it out, and they just show the same. The same drone shot over and over again in the same floor photo of them at that same party or sitting by the lake. Like, did you only have five photos in your entire 40 years of life?

[Heather McDonald]

They only had five photos. The other ones are just of, like, his toe or something that he's sending to his doctor. Should I get this checked out?

[Drake Dobias]

Oh, well, thank you, Drake, for joining me. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. We are always doing our best to give you the juiciest content. Sometimes the plans fall through, but I think. I think it was a good one.

[Heather McDonald]

Are you gonna be in Salt Lake City?

[Drake Dobias]

Oh, I am. I'm gonna be in Salt Lake City. Drake's coming. He's gonna film it. I'm really excited to go do Stand up in Salt Lake City and it is going to be at Wise Guys. And it's gonna be Friday the 20th of March and March 21st. Two shows a night, 6 and 8:30. I love those times. I love that it's an earlier evening.

[Heather McDonald]

Early birds.

[Drake Dobias]

And there's also meet and greet opportunities and this is a smaller venue, so we're gonna really get into it. You're gonna be part of the show and I'm gonna talk to you guys more than I normally do in my standup because I'm doing lots of fun, different things and I hope you come. Go to heather McDonald.net and I'll give you all the behind the scenes and what happens with some of these episodes that don't come to fruition for various reasons that is on Patreon, along with all the funny and juiciest stuff in my life. That's every Friday. And if you have not joined that, you go to heather McDonald.net Sign up. Change your life. Bye.

[Heather McDonald]

It's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear.

[Drake Dobias]

Billions.

[Heather McDonald]

That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it, guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.

[Drake Dobias]

Quieres mejor Internet Cox Internet de tresintas megas tiene las velocidades rapidas que bus perfecto para streaming e gaming y TRA bajardes de casa todo por solo quarente cinco de almes Congregas Cox mobo inculia quipo de wifi y guarantia deprecio de dos anos entu plan nues cambia te oy a Cox. The Kiera Cox mobile gig. Unlimited guarantee. A depression including.