← Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald
Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald
Juicy Crimes: The D4VID Case, The Butt Lady, and the Menéndez Brothers with Matt Murphy
01:12:59
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- [00:01]
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The detective said missing kids usually come home.
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What happens when they don't? Based on a true story Police looking for John Gacy. We discovered bodies. By the looks of it, they're younger men.
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The things he did to those kids.
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He's sick.
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The system failed these families.
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Devil in disguise. John Wayne Gacy. Streaming now only on Peacock. Do you know how many there are? Up to you to find out.
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C
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Who could use your help?
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C
Change rarely comes from waiting. It comes from someone deciding, today I'll start. Don't wait for someone else to bring change today. Start your fundraiser in just minutes@gofundme.com that's, that's gofundme.com to start your fundraiser. Gofundme.com this is a commercial message brought to you by GoFundMe.
- [01:41]
A
Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. I have everyone's favorite surfing prosecutor, best selling author Matt Murphy. Welcome back to the Juicy scoop, juicy crime empire that you are part of. How are you doing?
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B
Good, good. I got in the water this morning, in fact.
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A
Oh really?
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B
I don't think I'm worthy of that title anymore. Today I was floundering. I like I fell on a wave and there was like these two, they couldn't have been more than 12 years old and they just gave me this look of disdain as they're paddling out two Manhattan beach kids. So my rickety old knees. But I'm, I'm still getting out there and doing it. But it was. I was judged. I was judged harshly.
- [02:24]
A
Yeah, well, good for you for still doing it. We have lots of things to discuss that I wanted to get your expertise on that are some LA based crimes. Let's talk a little bit about David. I've talked about it on the show. David is the singer and this young girl, she was only 15 when her body was found in a Tesla in which he owned. What is going on with this case?
- [02:52]
B
Okay, so a couple of things. Number one, the LAPD is going through, they're dotting their I's and crossing their T's, which is exactly what they should be doing. There's pressure on these high profile cases to like to do something to show some sort of progress. That's exactly the way investigations should not be investigated. Right. Like you want methodical, very careful forensic and interviews and all that. The latest is the LA county coroner, because the body was dismembered, has been unable to list a cause of death.
- [03:26]
A
Okay, so do we know how it was dismembered?
- [03:29]
B
Like, we do not know. Obviously they know we know that. I've read, although it's unconfirmed that they found her head. We know that at least one hand was there because the mother identified the tattoo and portions. At least I've heard of the torso. Maybe the whole body's in there, or maybe there's. Maybe there's missing parts. We don't know. They obviously do. So the problem with that, of course, is determining cause of death on a heavily decomposed body like that can be, can be forensically challenging. The good news for those who are interested in justice is that it matters. But it's not, it's not critical. It's really not. It's like it's. I've done five no body murders where obviously we had no cause of death on those either. You can still prove it. You know this guy, you look at the photo there, you know, looks like a mug shot. And he hasn't been arrested yet. And he's got. There's a lot of really interesting behind the scenes stuff here. Right, You've got it. He has a. A song. I think it's his breakout. Now. That's before she was. She was killed. What is it, Romantic homicide?
- [04:38]
A
Yes. And the video of a guy dragging a body and putting it in the trunk of a car. He was selling these white shirts with blood prints on it, which was a shirt that he wore in that video. Yeah, there's so many. His friends said that they thought they were told by him or his friends that this young girl who they believed he was in a romantic relationship was a 19 year old girl going to USC.
- [05:10]
B
Mm.
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A
A lot of people have been talking on sort of critical. Where was. Were the parents when she would go missing or what was going on? We heard from one of her friends when she was 13 and he said, well, she just didn't Have a good relationship with her parents.
- [05:28]
B
The parents here, she was a runaway essentially and it looks like she had left and gone home. These are sort of first generation immigrant, very poor. And somehow she began this relationship with this guy. It's important to note she began it when she was 13. Now we don't know for sure what the status was, but it sure looks like she was living with him. Part of the forensics that they're going to do is they're going to be looking for her DNA throughout the house, including the bedroom. Right. And if her DNA is found on the pillow next to his, if he was dumb enough not to wash the sheets, and this guy's dumb enough not to have washed the sheets, that's going to be very good evidence. Now, 13 year old, that's 288 of the California penal code. The age between the line between 13 and 14 is a huge difference. As far as any sexual contact. If you touch somebody who's 13 or younger, any physical contact at all, or if it's done online, even without touching them, if there's any sexual encouragement, that's a completed child molestation in the state of California. So if there's any. If they had a romance, they don't even have to prove that he killed her. He's on the hook for that under 288 of the California penal code and the statute is not run on that yet. So I guarantee they're looking hard at that. But they're going through all the forensics, they're going to look for her DNA, they're going to look for his DNA. But again, it's also interesting because we're talking about a Tesla, right? When the Teslas were all getting vandalized, you got cameras all over those cars. There's a thing called an edr, an electronic data recorder on pretty much all modern cars. But Teslas, they're great. I am very curious to see if they got an image of the driver or the person who parked that car with her body in it. And of course she didn't dismember herself. So the evidence here is overwhelming that she was murdered. There's no health issues that we're aware of, but can I rant for a second? Okay, so look, when you look at the video of her family, not like, not even necessarily her mom, but she had people who loved her. And this guy's famous. He's a famous singer. All around Los Angeles county, there are moms like this or family members like this whose hearts are destroyed. They're broken when they lose a loved one to domestic homicide, to a gang homicide, to just whatever kind of homicide. What a mother goes through when her child has been murdered is apoplectic grief on another level. And all of these defund the police people, okay, everybody is like, oh, I saw a mean video where a cop was mean to somebody. And in a city I've never been, in a state I'll never go, like, I want to defund the police. The Los Angeles City Council bought into that bullshit hook, line, and sinker. And nobody thought, like, where does this go next? Like, what happens when we actually defund the police? And the money comes out of three areas. It comes out of the training, additional training for officers, which is kind of ironic when we want our cops to be better. It comes out of education programs like dare, like, keep kids away from drugs or gangs. And the third area that's probably cut the most heavily when they defund the police is specialized units. Specialized units mean sexual assault. They've already restructured that to the lapd, which is fricking maddening to me. They've cut back on that. That's rapists and child molesters and robbery homicide. Those are the units at the LAPD that we depend on to catch rapists, child molesters, and murderers. And they cut back funds because they had to. Right now, we have 8,600 sworn police officers at LAPD. That is the lowest number of sworn officers since 1995.
- [09:07]
A
That's crazy.
- [09:09]
B
It's beyond crazy. It is negligent. It is reckless. It is frigging not right. And the families that suffer are the families who aren't connected to famous homicides like this. Like, right now. I like this police chief that we have right now. The families on cases that have no media, they are suffering right now because the bad guys are getting away with it because funds have been removed. And part of it is cutting back on funding. Part of it, Heather, is they can't meet their recruiting quotas because we have guys like George Gascon who came in, that was our former DA who just wanted to prosecute police officers. So if you want to be a police officer, the worst place you can do it is Los Angeles county, because you've got. If you make a mistake, there's a thing out there right now that's being trotted out by guys like Erwin Chemerinsky in the hard left of California to prosecute police officers for policy violations. And it's called officer created jeopardy. It basically means that if a police officer makes a mistake, somewhere along the line doesn't follow policy and procedure. And a gunfight ensues where somebody gets killed, a suspect is killed, even if the officer perceives an immediate threat of death from the person they shoot. They want to criminally prosecute that police officer. It is madness. Now Nathan Hockman has come in. Nathan Hockman promised to right those wrongs, and we'll see. A verdict is still out on our current da Nathan Hockman, to see what he's going to do on those. So. So defund the police equals. The big winners are rapists, child molesters and murderers. And what it results in is in the broken hearts of mothers and fathers and loved ones whose loved ones are murdered and the bad guy gets away with it. And also additional victims of sexual assault. Because rapists and child molesters don't stop. They do not stop until they're caught. And the math is pretty simple. When you remove resources from those units, less of those guys are gonna get caught, which means more rapes, child moles, and more murders. It drives me frigging insane. So hopefully the pendulum is gonna swing. But this is a case for any of you that are watching. Watch the clips of the parents. As much heat as they're getting, you will see actual human cross cultural universal bereavement by those people because they lost somebody that they love, you know.
- [11:28]
A
Yes, there has been some criticism about the parents. And I had mentioned. I said, you know, there was a time that there was something called a runaway where the girl was. There was a time where people would live with like their best friend's family because they weren't getting along with their own family. Now, I would think most people wouldn't want to take that on because that could be like a legal thing or whatever of like letting your friend, you know, from 16, 17 live in your house. Like I. And the same thing with the runaways. I feel like everyone just thinks, oh, she must have been trafficked. Or I wonder if this singer, David, was paying the family to let her hang out with him or. Because there are people of. Not connections and not means. Just was like, well, she's a teenager and she's run off and, you know, she has a boyfriend. And I told her, like, be careful, don't get pregnant. I don't know. Like, we don't. It doesn't really mean that. But I don't know if she was a singer because at one point I was like, was this kind of like an R. Kelly thing where, like, R. Kelly would tell the parents, oh, your daughter's gonna. And they had no idea that there was a thing going on with this man. They just thought, oh, R. Kelly's gonna get our daughter to be a famous singer. And we don't know how to do that. I don't really like how she came about. And it's like she looks young and she looks cute but, you know, lovely but like average. She wasn't a girl that was, I think, trying to look older. And that's another thing too, though. In my day we would say we were older, we would 13, 14, get all cute, walk up down Ventura Boulevard, tell my parents we were going to see a movie and meet 20 year old college guys.
- [13:24]
B
Right.
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A
And you know, like that can happen too.
- [13:27]
B
Yep. Now for 288, that section we were talking about. 13 doesn't matter. It's strict liability. If you touch a 13 year old, you're on the hook. Even if you think she's.
- [13:35]
A
I mean, I'm not defending anybody in this. I'm just saying it is kind of when I think about like, you know, just. Even when you just look back at movies and how normalizing that was, that like an older guy or even a song, you know, like Don't Stand so Close to Me but the teacher's pet, like all of that, like now you just look at it, you're like, I just can't believe that anyone ever thought that a girl that young could somehow be responsible for this situation with such an older guy. That she could be wanting it or that she could be able to give consent.
- [14:10]
B
Right. And she can't under California law. And look at Loyola. I don't know if you know about this. I got kicked out of my house when I was 17 and exactly that. Me and my dad had issues. He booted me and I moved in with my friend's parents. Another Loyola kid took me in and I lived at their house in the Palisades, which just almost burnt down recently. And you're absolutely right. Everything you said is exactly right. And also you got a mom who's potentially working three jobs, who's got a strong willed 13 year old who thinks she's in love, who's moved into a place. We don't know any of that yet. The LAPD is trying to find it, find it all out. All I know is there's no doubt in my mind she was murdered. Somebody did it. She's in the trunk of this guy's car. I mean, that picture right there, I'm like a cat looking at birds behind a window. Like I Would love to prosecute this case assuming there's enough evidence.
- [15:03]
A
But if, I mean, the only thing I'm thinking of is if it's not him. The only thing could be they're trying to determine a day of death or close to it. And if he was like in Europe.
- [15:17]
B
And he's presumed innocent, we have to remember that. And maybe he didn't. And I think had cases that look like one thing that all of a sudden it goes pear shaped and something. It's completely wild and turned out to be something else. I'm open to all that.
- [15:28]
A
Well, also because someone like him, who's young, who's a singer, has probably a lot of entourage either on the payroll or friends around that could have also been involved with her. Or I think they're trying to figure out if someone like did he tell one of his friends to end it, like do the hit, but he didn't do it himself because he was actually in Europe. I think they're just trying to figure that all out. I don't know if you know an answer to this. I've only seen headlines, but there was something about this Texas home, right? What is that?
- [16:02]
B
Well, there's two things. Number one, he got swatted. Who cares? That has nothing to do with the case.
- [16:06]
A
What does swatted mean?
- [16:07]
B
Swatted is when somebody calls the police 911 and says there's somebody at this address with a gun. It's an online gaming thing. And he's. He started out as a professional online gamer before he became a singer guy. Right. That was his first claim to fame was he was a professional. I think he was. I think it was Fortnite but some game.
- [16:27]
A
So that's where that surveillance is from the cops is because somebody. It wasn't a real thing. Somebody called on him.
- [16:35]
B
Right. So that's called swatting. And it's an online gaming thing where you find out the address of your rival or somebody that has made you unit.
- [16:41]
A
It's a great way to waste cops time.
- [16:43]
B
Oh no, no, no, no. It's a felony. I think in every single story state where you call and say there's somebody on the lawn with a gun and SWAT teams show up at the house, right? And then. So it's massively illegal. But that would have nothing to do with the case. And the more interesting thing for our purposes or our discussion is he transferred title about two weeks after her body was found into his mother's name. And that's interesting. That can be potentially what's known as consciousness of guilt. Because behind the criminal investigation. I guarantee there's gonna be a wrongful death suit here where her family comes after him. Guaranteed. There's some plaintiff's lawyer biding their time, waiting to see what happens with the police investigation. And he's. So that's probably gonna be deemed what's known as a fraudulent conveyance. When somebody is trying to get rid of their assets in preparation for an oncoming civil suit. Judges undo those transfers all the time. So he's. Chances are very good. Somebody said, you gotta start stashing your assets because the family's about to sue you. Now, that's me speculating. I'm not on the case. I don't know. But that's a very common thing that people do.
- [17:48]
A
Now, let's say even if he found out that his crazy best friend did it, right, and that guy goes to prison for life and he's off the hook, do you think that an attorney could still have a case to sue for wrongful death? Because she was in his world 100%.
- [18:09]
B
And they will accuse him. He's got a lawsuit coming, whether it's criminal and civil, Whether it's just criminal, just civil. He's got legal troubles, which is why that maneuver almost certainly was made. And I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe somebody's gonna show me some real estate transaction was planned long before she disappeared. But look, there's another part of that also, and that is the she'd been in the trunk for several weeks. And it's really like. You know that scene on, like, all the cop shows where it's like, when did the coroner say? It's like, oh, 11:52 is the time of death. That's not a real thing. Okay. It's every time a coroner in my experience tries to estimate time of death, universally wrong. You will find other evidence that shows, like, a video when they're going in, Almost always wrong, because it's done on generalities. So when you're talking about heavily decomposed, there's no way they're gonna be able to tell us exactly when she died or when she disappeared. You're right. It may coincide with some sort of alibi where he's in Europe or whatever, but it's going to be very, very difficult for them to place the time for death. But they will be able to tell the last time that car was driven, because that's going to be in the edr. And I would love to see those videos and see what appears on the LAPD certainly has that. They've been Very good about keeping that quiet, as well as all of their interviews with his circle and all the orbiters and all the people around. But there's people that have explained the nature of their relationship, I guarantee it. And look, the Robbery Homicide Division, when they are properly resourced and supported, they know what they're doing and so do a lot of DAs in LA are very good at what they do. John Lewin is one, Jeff Lewin, his brother's another. They have over a thousand lawyers in that office when it's properly staffed, which Gascon wasn't doing, who are hard hitting professional prosecutors. But also we have a lunatic jury pool here in la and they're gonna try to put this case together and there's no statute of limitations on this. So from everything I've seen, they're taking their time. They should be. They're not bowing to public pressure. They shouldn't and we'll see what.
- [20:12]
A
But is he in a place where they've taken the passport or whatever?
- [20:16]
B
Or do you know, this guy is not going to be able to run very far. And almost everywhere, unless he goes to Iran, Cuba, I don't want to give him a list. Or Venezuela, pretty much everywhere. It's called a, it's called a blue notice where they put in an interpolation alert out and as we know from my nyere case, almost everywhere will extradite. Some places are easier than others. But there's no place he's going to be able to run and actually get away.
- [20:42]
A
I have another question. Now I know you were homicide, but. So I don't know if you can answer this or not, but when it comes to other cases in la, like a fraud, like if someone was to fake a burglary and because they have a financial problem and so they say, oh my God, somebody came, they took all my stuff and the stuff is never found, it's never found at, in pawn shops or anything. And there's a surveillance of people in hoodies running out of the house. Is there a statute of limitations on that?
- [21:17]
B
Yes, there's a statute of limitations on those types of cases. Generally statutes of limitations. It's called tolling. When it's in abeyance, the statute typically starts to tickle when you know, so upon discovery. So I think that depending on what case or what kind of crime, it can be discovery of the identity of the person who did it. Sometimes you have to report it right away.
- [21:45]
A
But no, like you report the crime, right? And it's like in the news, right? And then years pass yeah. Unless somebody came and was like, hi, I have to tell you what I did on this date. I was with this group. We were told to come, and we were told no one was gonna be there. We took stuff. We didn't hurt anybody. We had a fake gun, and then we delivered the stuff to this person, and then that was it. And like, something like that. Can that still. So if someone set that up. Okay, could they. Could it come crashing down like, five years later? Or is there a limitation to.
- [22:24]
B
Okay, it's very fact and crime specific. And every crime has a different statute of limitations. And so it depends generally something. If you know who the suspect is and the crime goes down, you're going to be. The statute of limitations will have run. Usually, you know, most felonies are three years. Most generic felonies are three years. Some are five. Some sexual assault cases are eight. Some, if it's a life case, it can be up to 15. Or. Or in murder, there is no statute of limitations. So it all depends. But in your typical fraud case, if you got an idea who the person was, action has to be taken. Typically for a civil case, it's got to be within two years. If it's a felony, fraud, burglary, that sort of thing, it's going to be. It's typically three years for a felony.
- [23:13]
A
So if it was like a fake. So the crime would be that you set up a fake robbery.
- [23:20]
B
Mm. And so. And did somebody get hurt in it?
- [23:22]
A
No, nobody got hurt. But let's say. Let's just say, hypothetically, somebody set up a fake robbery. And. And they took a bunch of goods that were worth whatever. They. They went through insurance, then they got.
- [23:36]
B
Insurance, like an insurance fraud.
- [23:39]
A
They got insurance money, but also those goods went. Went away to whomever. And. But maybe the person in the house always thought it was a real crime, but maybe somebody else set it up, like, set it up who also received the insurance.
- [23:54]
B
It sounds juicy. Like, wherever this is coming from, it's pretty good.
- [23:58]
A
So let's say it's a spouse. Okay. So a spouse goes, go rob my house. And they didn't realize the wife was going to be home. And then the wife's like, so then she's traumatized. She thinks real robbers came to her house, though she wasn't hurt. Nobody was hurt, but they took all their stuff.
- [24:14]
B
Boy, that's really interesting.
- [24:15]
A
And so then they find out years.
- [24:17]
B
Later, and they took it with force and fear with her present.
- [24:20]
A
Yes.
- [24:20]
B
Okay, so that's a robbery. So that's a conspiracy to Commit robbery probably. Now there might be a defense too. She wasn't supposed to be there so we didn't actually conspire. Yeah, it's not, I mean interesting that that's like a law school hypo. It's not technically a burglary because the person who went in had permission from the homeowner, the husband who set it up to enter the residence for the purpose of committing the insurance fraud. That's a really interesting question. There's any law professors on your viewers? I would love to hear from them on that. That's like a law school hypo.
- [24:52]
A
So yeah, I just think this scenario is one that people talked about cuz it's like a reality show scenario and I just thought with our, you know, budget and cops that it just was one that there wasn't enough there to pursue. And it was just a lot of conspiracy theory of what, why this looked strange. They like they took her phone and then she said please let keep my, let me have my phone. And so then they see them leaving and then with their bag of goods like they like put it in like a pillowcase or whatever and then they just lay the phone down. And I thought, well either they're not experienced or they, they think there's a tracker on the phone and they don't want the phone. And isn't that nice that they didn't just chuck it, they left it there for her to call the police or call her husband. People always thought that was strange. But then as the years passed I was like, well since no one got murdered, is this even something juicy? Unless one of those people, if this in fact wasn't a real deal and it wasn't just robbers that knew that just thought this looks like a rich house, let's try to go at 10 at night and get it then. Do people. Is it like a cold. It's not a cold case. Like someone didn't die. So is there like a, a big. What's the goal to do it. To try to find the truth.
- [26:15]
B
I'm going to call it. If I had to make the, if I had to make the ruling that since that's a conspiracy, the statute's going to run upon discovery of the conspiracy. In other words, if they just think it's a robbery in the house and it's like oh my God, oh my God later when they discover that it's the husband that actually set the whole thing up. I think the statute runs upon date of the discovery. That would be my. If I'm the Judge on that. That's the way I'm calling it. So it starts upon a discovery.
- [26:40]
A
Walked in right now and said, I have to take tell you what I did.
- [26:42]
B
Right.
- [26:43]
A
I was with my boyfriend, I did this weird crime and it's always bothered me. I'm afraid it's going to come back. So then that's when it starts that day.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah. Now it's again, super fact specific. I think different judges may rule differently on that. But it's from. Typically statutes are going to run, they know she was robbed. So the robbery is going to run from the day that it happened. But the conspiracy, that probably runs from the date that the conspiracy is discovered. So from the date that the person comes in and says it. But again, like going back to what we were saying, a specialized unit at LAPD would be fraud. That's probably the first one, I guarantee. I don't know. But I know they took the sexual assault unit there, took massive restructuring hits because of all this defund the police bullshit. So I just guarantee the fraud unit probably took bigger hits, less detectives to begin with. So if that happened in LA county, good luck.
- [27:39]
A
Yes, probably. They're probably going to all be fine. Okay, so this is a crazy crime. This lady's called the butt lady. And she would go and give people like butt Brazilian butt injections. And this one, I think you know the story. But. So she was. Her name's Libby Adam and she's been convicted of second degree murder after a Malibu actor died from silicone injection she administered. And prosecutors said that Libby Adam continued performing unauthorized butt injections despite a 2024 conviction for an involuntary manslaughter after another client died from the procedure. And is that insane? So someone already died.
- [28:25]
B
Right.
- [28:26]
A
And how was she out if someone already died?
- [28:30]
B
So here's the way it works. And this is another really interesting legal area. You have a thing called for any murder case pretty much for the last 400 years, you have to establish what's called malice of forethought. That means basically intent to kill. Not to overcomplicate it, intent to kill. But what if you have an accident where somebody is so reckless that they consciously disregard the safety of other people? And we have a thing in the law, again, hundreds of years old, known as implied malice, where it's like if you accidentally kill somebody and it's normal negligence, like you're on your cell phone in your car and it's just a really bad accident, that's different than somebody who is consciously aware of the danger that they're Doing and does it anyway. A classic example of that are fifth or sixth time DUIs. Somebody that's been through the system knows how dangerous it is. Goes to the mothers against Drunk driving panel, listens to survivors of horrific. It's in their brain. They've been taught drinking and driving is inherently dangerous. And they get super hammered and get behind the wheel for the third time and they kill a kid on a bike. That's a case where somebody has consciously disregarded and so we imply the malice of forethought. So the mental state necessary to commit a murder is there. So in this case, I mean, look at that face. In this case, you've got a woman who you can run with. I didn't have any idea how dangerous this was. I'm injecting silicone. I'm not a medical doctor, I'm advertising or however I'm getting paid to do this. But I really didn't know because I'm an ignorant fool. Please forgive me for killing this poor woman. That is an involuntary manslaughter. Okay, so she gets prosecuted for that. But now that excuse you get one time that defense exists one time the I didn't know how dangerous this was exists once. Once she's convicted of that. And in invol, by the way, why was she out? Because an involuntary manslaughter, Heather, is in the state of California. Second degree murder, okay, you get a parole hearing. Now, current state of the law, with our legislature in 12 years, okay, so you get 85% good time, work time for 50 into life. Life used to mean life in California. Now there's a big push by our legislature to release everybody. So the cost of a human life for second degree murder is basically 12 years. Okay, so then you have voluntary manslaughter, that's 11. But you're going to do even less good time. Work time or you're going to get more good time, work time, you're going to do less time and then you have an involuntary manslaughter, which essentially is a criminal accident. Okay? So that's how that works. So she's going to be somebody. You're going to be out in four years or less on what we call them involves or an involuntary manslaughter. So she's just not going to do that much time and that's the max that somebody's going to do. Now it's different now. She got convicted under this implied malice theory. She was so reckless because she knew that this stuff she was doing can kill another human being. And she kept Doing it. And it's like. I mean, as you hear that or as your viewer hears that, it's like my heart's hardened over the years, but I still have the capacity to feel really sorry for people when they're stupid. And I think we all kind of have some of that. It's like this poor ignorant lady, she killed somebody. She's learned her lesson. Any decent human being is going to stop injecting silicone into people's butts. Right. And by the way, I looked up Butt Doctor and the stuff that comes out when I Google that. So if anybody gets into my computer, it's her fault for telling me that we were going to do this. The stuff that appeared on my computer, and it's all about weird things that go up people's butts. And it's the butt doctor. It's ER doctors, it's YouTube after YouTube after YouTube going, I found this up somebody's butt. So anybody, if there's ever search on my computer, it's Heather McDonald's fault that all that stuff is on there.
- [32:23]
A
Definitely clear that up. Yeah, yeah. I think what happens with this. And this is the. The woman, the actress I think, who passed.
- [32:34]
B
I'm thinking, yeah, she was er. She was in a bunch of stuff.
- [32:37]
A
This girl. This girl was in ER and she was, you know, living with her husband and so he's suing her. Good luck. I don't think she has a lot of money.
- [32:44]
B
No, she has nothing.
- [32:45]
A
But, you know, these things, you know, people would have Botox parties. I think there was a story where there was someone doing that with Botox. And there was. And it was Lionel Richie's wife at the time would have like Botox parties. But when Botox was kind of in the more earlier stages and people would go and, oh, well, they, you know, come. And someone also will say, no, I've got somebody. No, it's awesome. And I'm sure besides the two people that died, maybe there's a lot of other people walking around that like their ass. That was like, oh, she was half the price. And she was great. I don't think it's easy. She only did two people and they both died. Like, obviously she did other people. And so unfortunately, yeah, that can happen. That's why you go to a real doctor's office. And I've heard. Okay, I've heard some weird stuff too. You know how people are like going to other countries for plastic surgery.
- [33:38]
B
Yeah.
- [33:39]
A
That. Now these, again, might not be true stories or whatever. You know, a lot of people Go have the greatest experience, whether it's Tijuana or turkey or whatever. And they get, you know, fourth of the price and everything. But then problem is if they come back and they have a complication, certain doctors don't want to work on you. Just like if you started a kitchen with a contractor and he disappears, other contractors are like, I don't know what shoddy work this is. The other thing is the stealing of organs that happened.
- [34:15]
B
I didn't know you were going there.
- [34:16]
A
Like having.
- [34:16]
B
So somebody goes to get like, I have not. I heard it first time in Juicy Scoop. Makes sense.
- [34:21]
A
Okay, so you're.
- [34:21]
B
They harvest an organ, you're getting this.
- [34:23]
A
Stuff and somehow they take like a kidney that you don't even know is done. I mean, this could be like an urban myth story or whatever, but like that. Then you get back and you thought you got a tummy tuck, you love your tummy, all this stuff. And then someone's like, you get a body scan and they're like, oh, so when did you donate your kidney? And they're like, what? And they took a kidney. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com Limu Imu and.
- [35:20]
B
Doug here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds of. With Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty.
- [35:42]
A
Liberty, Liberty, Liberty Savings.
- [35:45]
B
Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I'm. Nothing surprises me anymore.
- [35:53]
A
You're not going to be able to figure that out.
- [35:54]
B
Well, and you're not able to sue anybody. There's going to be no investigation. You're going to be out of kidding. But I, you know, I'm just. I spent a lot of time in New York and a lot of the New York. I just heard somebody talking about doing something like that where everybody flies to South Korea for some procedure. A bunch of these like Manhattan moms, they were half joking and they've all got tons of dough too. So. But the pro. So you're going to Southeast Asia, essentially. Right, so South Korea. What I have heard, probably urban myth as well, is that they execute people in China all the time and just harvest their organs like all their bad guys. They actually have a funky death penalty in China. Not that I'm advocating for anything similar here, but. And they, you know, apparently there's plenty of kidneys in Asia from Chinese prisoners. Probably also an urban myth, but they've got a pretty steady supply, I think, in some of those Asian countries for their executed prisoners.
- [36:50]
A
Well, they did just arrest this woman who was like the most diabolical woman that was luring pregnant women and then would.
- [37:01]
B
Oh, wow. In China.
- [37:03]
A
No, in Mexico. It was like one of the worst criminals in Mexico and would take the babies and either give them up for adoption or sell them or whatever, but then also the pregnant women, they would take their organs. So this is a real case.
- [37:17]
B
Yeah, I don't mean a lot of.
- [37:21]
A
A lot of press, but it was one of those, like, horrific cases where this was like the most evil woman doing this in the world.
- [37:27]
B
Gets weirder and darker all the time, doesn't it?
- [37:31]
A
Okay, now let's talk about a very, very sad case. This is the case of the four Pepperdine students who were walking along pch. They were seniors and they were killed by this guy who was driving his car. And his name is Frazier Boehm. He's young and he's only 23 and a good looking kid. Of course, all the girls, all the victims were beautiful as well. Can you tell us a little bit about this? Because he wasn't drunk.
- [38:09]
B
Right. So this goes right in line with what we were talking about. This is the same theory. This is an implied malice murder. That's the theory. And so I've done, I've done a bunch of these. I prosecuted a bunch of these murders and I, I had one pretty similar to this. It was a guy who's arguing with his wife. He had been drinking, but he gets out. He. The defense. It was against Christopher Darden, actually. He was the defense lawyer on it. They're at the Irvine Spectrum. He gets mad, he's arguing with his wife. He. There's some dv domestic violence going on in the car. An off duty Secret Service agent sees it, gets out, says, ma', am, can I help you? You know, typical domestic violence. F you mind your own business. From her. They switch. She was in the driver's seat, now he's in the driver's seat and he takes off. Up the 405 freeway at 150 miles an hour.
- [39:03]
A
While she's in the car.
- [39:04]
B
While she's in the car. And what he does is he winds up taking out a family, going to a 13 year old's birthday party. Killed a 10 year old boy, permanently disabled. A 13 year old girl who's in the car, mom died, husband permanently disabled. It's just carnage. And it was a very similar defense. It was. I was running from the guy, this guy pulled a gun on me, which he didn't do. And Darden was defending it. I charged him with murder for that. He had no priors. He had no prior DUIs. Exemplary life up to that point.
- [39:34]
A
But in your case, were they able to prove that he had alcohol?
- [39:38]
B
Oh, yeah, he had alcohol. But this is more of a speed contest type. That's another kind the too fast and furious. And you know, I looked at this and ironically this was very close. This accent is very close to where Paul Waller's beach house was. You know, from the fast. Too fast and furious. Right. Who by all accounts is a really good man on many different levels.
- [40:00]
A
Wait, wasn't he the one that was also had.
- [40:02]
B
I'm sorry, Paul Welker was his name? Paul Welker? Yeah, He. Yeah, he died in. He died in a. In a Porsche with a guy that was basically showing off the speed of his car. Right. Tragic. And he was a good man. But this was right. Very close to his beach house, ironically. So in a speed contest type case, and this is something that happens in Southern California, you get these idiots who are racing, often young, often good looking, often pretty universally stupid, who drive too fast and some poor mom in a minivan gets killed because somebody's racing. That's the theory here. Now this guy was apparently going. The edr, that electronic data recorder we were just talking about in his car. The BMW he was in had him going 104 miles an hour on PCH. Now you've driven PCH a million times, 104 miles an hour. So. And killed these four poor innocent young women with their whole lives ahead of them. I look at this guy, he's a good looking guy. A lot of people see somebody cute. I look at a guy, I look at that guy. That's sad. I was a young man, I drove up and down PCH all the time when I was in high school and I grew up. 104 miles an hour is the prosecution theory consciously disregarding the safety of everybody else on the road. He's doing just what my defendant did against Christopher Darden trying to blame a road rage incident. I don't believe that in this. It's not my case. I don't know.
- [41:30]
A
He's saying there was a road rage thing and he was trying to get away from a crazy person and that's why he was speeding and obviously he didn't run into these girls.
- [41:38]
B
That's right. Now most jurors, I think are gonna take the position like you're in a beef with another driver. You can pull over and yell, you can flip the bird, you can call 911, which he didn't do. There are a whole host on your little RoboCop list of options that come down before you get excused for driving 104 miles an hour. And I think it's bullshit anyway. I think the DA's office thinks it's bullshit. But even if it was true, the fact that he doesn't want to take a beating from another driver, and so far right now I don't think there's anything about guns or any actual legitimate fear that they've, at least that they've released so far, maybe that claim will change. Four beautiful young kids lost their life because this guy was going 104 miles an hour. So that's kind of your classic implied malice, second degree murder. Now in mine, just so you know, on mine, we convicted mine and Chris Darden. We got along fine. We got along fine. O.J. was no fluke. We got along fine. But I felt I, you know, the prosecutor's job was to do justice and I asked the court to run the multiple murder convictions on my case, to run them concurrent rather than consecutive. So he got credit for all the murders and he was released after 17 years in custody. I think it was 17. And he's lived a model life ever since.
- [43:06]
A
But he did do 17 years in prison.
- [43:07]
B
He did 17 years. I mean, and the thing is, is that the 13 year old girl suffered severe head injuries and will be disabled for the rest of her life. The father who is driving the car, lost his wife, lost his 10 year old son and is also. His injuries were, I mean, I'll share this with you. I went in and he, they had to go in and he was so severely injured. It was pretty miraculous that he lived. And they, he had a, it was like almost like this big spandex wetsuit thing and I'm like, can I see your injuries to see. Because great bodily injury was one of the special allegations on the case. And he undid, he's like, of course. And he lifted up his shirt and undid this thing. And what they do on that in case they have to go back in for sepsis and he had multiple infections is they separate your muscles. So it was just his organs pressing against his skin and it was like something you'd see in high school. It's like an anatomical display. I mean, you could literally see his stomach and his intestines through his skin. So the injuries were so horrific and so severe. Yeah, the guy did 17 years and it's a really tough thing to balance.
- [44:24]
A
So what do you think is going to happen with this? So I think they were saying that his attorney filed a 55 page motion challenging details from an April hearing and pushing to dismiss the four murder counts leveled against her client because he was slapped with murder and vehicular manslaughter charges for four people. I mean, so if he gets convicted, he would, wouldn't he have to do life or they would do it like you said. So wait, consecutively means, like let's say you get 20 years for each person. That means you're doing 80.
- [44:57]
B
He would do four years times. Or I'm sorry, he'd do 12 years times four before he's consecutive, before he would be eligible for a parole hearing.
- [45:04]
A
And then concurrent is you got 12 years times four. But, but you'll do it all in 12 years, right? Okay.
- [45:11]
B
And it's 15 to life. Is the, is the, is the number that's the sentence for second degree murder. So the court will have the option of stacking all those. What I don't like about what the Lada's office did here strategically, and this is a. Prosecutors differ on this, I would just charge murder. I wouldn't charge in the alternative, a gross vehicular manslaughter. Because, you know, call it for what it is and have your theory. And then you have, by doing it that way, you're telling the jury, even we don't know what it is. It's like, so when the defense order gets up, they're going to go, this is a gross vehicular manslaughter and a murder for the exact same death means they don't even know what it is. So it's like, you know, you almost build in a reasonable doubt argument on the second degree murder. If you think it's a second degree murder, you go balls to the wall. You charge second degree murder and then you go and you prove that it's a second degree murder. And then the jury has one option. They convict of the murder or they walk them and that's it's kind of high stakes. It takes a little more fortitude to do it that way, but I think that's a better way to go. Yeah.
- [46:14]
A
This is Ru reminding me of the Rebecca Grossman case right now.
- [46:17]
B
Rebecca Grossman. Yeah. Very similar.
- [46:19]
A
That is where this wealthy woman was speeding down in Westlake Village, and a family was going through a crosswalk, and she killed two brothers.
- [46:29]
B
She's racing her boyfriend, you know, having fun with her car.
- [46:32]
A
Well, yeah. At her defense, they tried to start to think, well, maybe, you know, it's really his fault or something. That was kind of a weird. I mean, I just.
- [46:41]
B
Rebecca Grossman was incredibly arrogant and obnoxious, too. She was just. She came off as a horrible human being who had zero remorse. She started like a. She went all in on social media on that. There were a lot of people in the community. I have a friend who lived right down the street from her who knew her socially before all that happened and was appalled at her absolute lack of any accountability afterwards. So this guy.
- [47:07]
A
This is my question, though. Like, okay, let's say you are Rebecca Grossman.
- [47:11]
B
Yeah.
- [47:11]
A
Now, I mean, there's this other side of it where, you know, she was wearing. Wore this necklace with the two kids in it, and she was a mother. And I can imagine, no matter how ritzy and selfish person you are, whether you're this kid or anything or your. Or the person you prosecuted, it's gotta be just, my God, to live with that, just to live with that, to be like, I can't believe I did this.
- [47:38]
B
Didn't she blame the victims in that, though? Didn't she?
- [47:40]
A
Well, I think I'm just saying. No, I'm. I'm just playing devil's advocate in the sense that if you're facing life in prison or 25 years for a woman who's like, you know, close to 60, when you're working with your defense team, I mean, don't you have to pull out all the stops? I don't. I think they were trying to say no.
- [48:01]
B
No.
- [48:01]
A
So. Because I know they're trying to say, this particular corner, there's been accidents. Like, try to maybe blame the city on it. Just point at anything so that when the jury is faced with it, they can say, okay, you know, there were accidents on this corner.
- [48:18]
B
Or. Right. The problem is, is that when you talk about implied malice, you're talking about that. It's. It becomes relevant. The person's state of mind becomes relevant. Like, is this the type of person that will consciously disregard the safety of other people. So when you go online and you start blaming the victims, that becomes admissible against you, that you really don't care. So I got a guy that keeps popping up on my Instagram algorithm, and his whole catchphrase is, you know, he'll talk about different scenarios, and he'll say, number one rule in life, don't be a dick. And so that's a situation of don't be a dick. And there's the underlying problem. Crime. Like, in my guy, he had lived an exemplary life. Came from really, like, he was impoverished as a little kid. He was adopted. Like, he had a really interesting life. He'd made good, just got promoted. That's why he was drunk. They were celebrating this win. Gets in an argument with his wife, like, all of that. And then. And I'll tell you, there was a moment in that. So Christopher Darden comes in. We did a preliminary hearing. So I'm the prosecutor, and my job is to do justice. It's not to get the maximum. It's not to get a conviction. It's to do justice and try to balance justice for the accused. And also this poor family that was devastated by this. So you're. It's. And it's. And there's no exact formula there. And it's hard. You have to balance the right and wrong, but you have to maintain an open mind and fairness at all times to the defendant. Okay. And we finished the prelim, and there's nobody. And he's in custody. There's nobody to impress anymore. Judge is off the bench. Judge bonds it over. His lawyer has. Is basically walking out of the courtroom, and he's waiting for the bailiffs to transport him. So there's. This is real. There's nobody there, you know, and I'm packing up my briefcase, and the guy breaks down sobbing. And that was incredibly significant in his case because the prosecutor me saw that, and it's like, okay, that's an actual human being who feels horrible. That's genuine remorse. So when the trial was done, and it was a fantastic judge, his name's Greg Prickett. I tried more heavy duty case in front of him than any other judge. And he's the best of the best, but he was also a really good man. And he. He knew he'd probably been struggling with it too. Like, do we go full consec or do we run concurrent? And he asked me. He didn't ask Darden. And he's like. And I'd known him for years. He's like, what do you Think. And I'm like, judge, I've been wrestling with this for two years. I think we go. We go full concurrent, not consec. We let him run. We let them run concurrent, and we give this guy another chance at life after 17 years. And he'd been in a couple years at that point. And that's the. That's the job of a good prosecutor. You're supposed to wrestle with that stuff. You're supposed to lose sleep over it. With a good judge, they. They open it up and they. They're doing the same thing. What is the appropriate sentence? Rebecca Gross was an asshole publicly.
- [51:17]
A
So do you think if right off the bat she was just.
- [51:21]
B
That social media stuff she did was. I saw that and I had this friend of mine who lives literally about four houses away. I don't know if I should say who she is. It's Hungry Girl. She's a very famous author. She's awesome. My friend Lisa. And she would send me these posts because they were friends, and she would send me these posts, and then she'd send me these.
- [51:40]
A
What are the kind of things that she would post?
- [51:43]
B
Basically. And we're going back a ways now, but essentially none of this is my fault type stuff. And you don't like. If I watch that, I saw some of those articles thinking, what are her lawyers thinking here? Like, you tap that down, you don't go. It's kind of like we're seeing this. I just listen. Listening. I was coming in and I just listened to some political commentary. I'm not political. I don't comment on this stuff. But Letitia James has been indicted and she won't shut up either. And somewhere there's some lawyer.
- [52:11]
A
What is she indicted for?
- [52:12]
B
Pulling for mortgage fraud. Which is exactly what she prosecuted Donald Trump for.
- [52:17]
A
Yeah.
- [52:17]
B
Which is like, that's a glass house, lady. And. But. But you know, and the politics can go back and forth not taking a position on it. So save the hate on my. On my Instagram. But. But she. She keeps talking about it. She keeps making public statements denying it. And somewhere there is some defense lawyer, I guarantee you, who is losing their mind over that, because she won't shut up. When you were charged with a crime. Shut the F up. Like, if there's one rule is don't be a dick. Like my. Like my Instagram guy keeps saying, but don't make statements. Just shut up. Shut up. Because everything you say as a criminal defendant with a pending case is absolutely carplage going to be admitted against you.
- [53:01]
A
Well, I also think in Saying that. Cuz my sister and her husband have. Are defense attorneys for criminal defense and stuff. And so many times when there's like, let's say an accident happens between families that knew each other or down the street, your teenage son hit somebody and then the victims families are like. And we never even heard from them. We never even heard a sorry. And I remember my sister saying, yeah, but that is what we tell them to do. Like they might want to, you know, they might be crying every night and want to go there and just roll up and just. But like that. Oh, you're making about you like whatever. You can't really win in those cases.
- [53:45]
B
Right. There's.
- [53:46]
A
You are to stay silent. But then that also can work against you. It seems like in a court of public opinion.
- [53:51]
B
Sure. And a court of public opinion there's a, there's a procedural place to do that's called a statement and allocution and that's at sentencing. There's a place to do that at sentencing where you're not admitting guilt. That's the place. We're not talking about that. We're talking about people who go online and say it wasn't my fault or I'm being persecuted or it's all a misunderstanding. I didn't intend to sign that document saying that I was going to live there. Like you can't. Like having statements made by a client during pending charges is always a mistake. I mean there's probably an exception or someplace. There's some case out there where somebody can go, oh, what about this? As a general rule, no decent defense lawyer, including your sister, is ever going to let their client go on fricking social media and talk shit about the victims or, or make any statements about the case. You absolutely open the door to all of that being admitted against you. It's like anything you say can and will be used against you, public opinion or no. And the thing is if you're going to do that, you should be expressing remorse. I feel horrible about this. This was a terrible accident. Make it consistent with being a human and not some social climbing a hole that is wealthy and can't be held responsible.
- [55:04]
A
And she did get convicted and I just don't know where that is. I think she's still, I guess she's appealing it. I don't know.
- [55:11]
B
Yeah, they'll appeal it, but I think she's already been sentenced.
- [55:14]
A
Yeah, I think.
- [55:15]
B
Yeah.
- [55:17]
A
Okay. Diddy is this is they're saying now Diddy. His attorney is Tenny Gregaris filed a letter asking the judge to suggest that Diddy go to Fort Dix because there is. To address drug abuse issues.
- [55:36]
B
Yeah. So that's, this is actually interesting. So Diddy got four years. He's already got over 13 months in. And I actually had a long discussion with Mark Aragos on this with Megyn Kelly and Mark and I. And essentially the way this works is there's a thing called the RDAP program and that they run that at Fort Dix. Okay. And RDAP is a residential alcohol and drug treatment. I absolutely agree that Diddy, according to his own admission and from the videos that we all saw, he could use a little drug rehab. No doubt about that. So that's a program that's available. RDAP will shave up to 12 months off of your sentence. So he got a four year sentence. So he's got 13 months that he's already served. Full day for day credit for that 13 months. RDAP will remove another 12 months off that if they send him to Fort Dixon. And then he's looking at. Typically they will release. I had a federal guy, a fraud guy that I actually defended, and they will give you halfway house access usually about six months before your sentence is up. So RDAP plus the CTs, the credit, time served, plus the halfway house, he's looking at about. I'll bet you he goes to a halfway house in less than 18 months and that's if he goes to Forticks because he can participate, he'll get a full 12 month reduction post.
- [57:00]
A
I've talked to two people, a man and a woman, Sherry Papiedemi, one of them, Ian Beck, is the other, who said, I think it was Ian, that the halfway house is oftentimes way worse than the prison, that they would have rather just been in the prison because that's like a whole rocket.
- [57:20]
B
And.
- [57:22]
A
You know, now these weird people have access to you and you're like safer in the.
- [57:26]
B
Oh, no, that's right. It's absolutely right. And it's, I mean, it depends on, depends on the case, it depends on the client, it depends on all that. But then again, when they release you, if they say, hey, you're going to halfway house and not really up, it's not really up to you.
- [57:40]
A
Right. Yeah, but I mean, I thought that was sort of surprising.
- [57:42]
B
No, It's a, that's 100% right. Yeah. I've had clients, I've had clients that, that have gone up to federal prison and it's their, it's the, the program is not bad. They've get, they get plenty of Yard time they're in there with actually if it's white collar, some interesting people who've gotten in trouble, some of our mobsters, like, yeah, it's not bad. And then they wind up with some friggin a hole roommate in, in the halfway house and it sucks. And they're in. The rules in the halfway houses suck and they, you know, it's. Yeah, that's a common thing. So whoever told you that is absolutely right.
- [58:18]
A
Where are we with the Menendez brothers? Is there ever a chance that they could get out now with the latest situation?
- [58:27]
B
Well, the current procedural posture they're in, they will get out. Okay. They can apply for an abbreviated time. They each got, I think it was a 36 month denial, right? I think is what it was. Or is it a three year, I.
- [58:45]
A
Don'T know, explain where it is because I don't really understand where.
- [58:47]
B
So essentially they each got parole hearings and they came in and the, in the, the bpt, which is the Board of Prison terms. And this was. I used to do these, these for 17 years and I've been to the prisons. Each prison where those guys had their have been in the rooms.
- [59:00]
A
So I have a question as a prosecutor, because you're in the room, have you ever gone. I think these guys should, I think this person should get out?
- [59:09]
B
Absolutely.
- [59:10]
A
You have?
- [59:10]
B
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. You go in, tell you the ones that I.
- [59:12]
A
It's not always that you're trying to keep them in because you put them there.
- [59:15]
B
No. And this is something that a lot of people don't understand. Your job as a prosecutor is seeking justice. Okay? So you, and you gotta call it as you see it. And there are, there are murderers who come in. And I'll tell you that the quintessential example are little pooba gangsters who when they're 18 and they're riding in the backseat of a car and they do a drive by and somebody and some rival gang member gets killed. And they're 18 years old and 25 years later they're up for parole. And you see these guys that walk in that weren't psychopaths and a lot of gang members are friggin nightmare monsters that should never get out. But a lot of these guys, when they're young, they're making stupid decisions. That's where the girls are, that's where their friends are. And then they're involved in one of these things and these guys come in, they're 45 years old, they're respectful, They've programmed in prison, they've gotten out of all the gang politics. They're. Their highest ambition in life would be to have a beer and watch a Laker game on their couch after a hard day's work. And for a lot of those guys, I looked across the table and would think, not only would I have no problem with this guy moved in next door to me, he'd probably be a pretty good neighbor. So 100% I've gone in there and I've done that and I have conceded on that. And that's the job as a prosecutor. However, there are plenty of guys who come in that are full of shit, like Lyle and Eric Menendez. They have never been honest about what they did. They lied to everybody. They lied from the 911 operator, they lied to their family at the funeral. They have lied. And the people who. And I think it comes from a good place. And I know this is a little controversial. I got heat last time we talked about this. Yes. Look, people see cute boys on a Netflix special and think it's real. These guys had cell phones in prison. Eric was a freaking gang member in prison. You know, cute little boy in the sweater vest. He joined a gang in prison. And I know I can say that because I saw this on the cup. I wasn't sure if I could say the F word. It's right here on the cup. Joined a fucking prison gang. And they're. And they are vicious. Years ago, in the beginning, years ago. And Mark Aragos, look, he's a friend of mine. I like Mark. Mark and I did cases together back in the day. And like before he got famous and long before I had any media exposure, like, I know Mark. Mark often. Mark's a true believer in his own cases, but he's a good guy. He's done a great job for them. But these guys are monsters. Who. And look, if you believe that they were molested by Jose Menendez, you don't get a free murder on the mom. Guys, that's a living, breathing human being who's entitled to her own right not to be shotgunned to death in her friggin living room by her son. And I'll tell you, they weren't indicted on this. This was a murder for financial gain. All day long, since we're talking about habeas, that means stuff outside the record. They did it to get to the money. And they, you know, they. All of those sessions with Dr. Oziel, the psychologist, nothing about sexual abuse came up. Eric was 18. He was a professional athlete. I think he can handle himself. Against his mom. And Lyle wasn't even living in the home anymore.
- [62:25]
A
So where. So where did it. So just going to where? No, but where does it go for their future? So there is it. So in 36 months they can go back.
- [62:34]
B
So no less than 36 months, they'll petition. I think they get 18 months and they get. They can petition for another parole board, another hearing. But these guys had cell phones in prison. Okay, you or I have cell phones. Here's my cell phone. We all have cell phones everywhere we go. It means nothing in prison. A cell phone is a fricking deadly weapon. You can order hits, you can intimidate witnesses. And they kept getting caught with cell phones. Lyle called CrimeCon from prison and had. And like spoke to him.
- [63:06]
A
That was a TV show.
- [63:07]
B
CrimeCon is a, is like, it's a true crime event every year that they put on.
- [63:14]
A
What year did he call CrimeCon like 20 years ago? Or like recent.
- [63:19]
B
Like he called CrimeCon. I think it was eight months ago. It's when we were in. It was either Orlando or Tennessee. It was like it was less than two years ago.
- [63:26]
A
On a cell phone, not on a prison.
- [63:27]
B
Call and talk to audience people, these guys. And it's. If you cannot follow the rules in prison and look, one of the first things for release that you need to be able to do, it's called insight. It's literally. That's the word they describe it. And it's basically has the inmate come to terms with what they did and are they frickin sorry for it? Before we release you out into society, my mom, my dad was molesting me. And I'm not responsible for this. And I had to ambush my parents because I was afraid for my life is such bullshit. And any rational parole board member is going to look at that and go, okay, this is not true. And that's going to be. They had long. They had a lot of due process in those things. These things went for hours. These were like 8 hour long hearings for each one of them. For all the other guys waiting in the hallway for their parole hearings, if they came in and said, I'm innocent. And oh yeah, I know they're called 1 15s. They're called CDC 115s. That's major rule violations. When you get caught with a cell phone and you keep getting caught with cell phones, it's not like they returned that cell phone. He kept getting caught with cell phones. Eric Menendez joined a prison gang. He's in a San Diego prison. They're notorious. They're incredibly violent. And he's a documented member of a prison gang. Guys, cute little guy in a sweater vest.
- [64:48]
A
But when he was young or now he's still in the prison.
- [64:51]
B
I don't know when he, he's gonna claim he did it. There's no such thing as a current gangster by the way. Everybody. So I used to be a gangster. I used to run with them. It's like he joined a fricking prison gang. He joined a prison gang and.
- [65:03]
A
But couldn't the argument be because he was a rich white boy? That was the only, the argument could.
- [65:08]
B
Be aliens came down and made him do it. Yeah.
- [65:11]
A
Isn't that gonna be the only way that you, you could protect yourself?
- [65:13]
B
It's bullshit. It's bullshit if you are behaving yourself. Here's another thing. We see the prison movies and it's like, you know, and we've all watched those and it's like, oh, they're gonna take a kid and they're gonna put him on the yard with all the hardcore guys. That's not the way it actually works. You go through a thing called the classification process. Used to be at a prison in Riverside. Now I think they do everything through Donovan in San Diego which is where at least one of them had his parole hearing. And they do a 90 day diagnostic and classification. And if you are not a violence to other staff you're going to go, there's levels, those are all level four yards they call it. Level four is where it's like prison for prisoners. It's, that's where all the gang guys are, that's where the heavy guys are. Otherwise you're going to a level three or a level two. And those guys get parole hearings. And the guys with parole hearings, they don't want to get in fights, they don't want to get into the politics. They don't want to do drugs because they're not going to get paroled. So there are prisons all around California. And I know because I've personally been in every one of them where you walk in, they're not fighting in the frickin chow line because they want to get out. And if they get in fights or they cause shit or if they have knives or any of that stuff, they, they, they get their CDC 115s and their lifers, but they don't get paroled. Okay? So he could have done that. The, the reason he wound up on hardcore yards is because they can't follow the rules because they're entitled, they're rich. The Rules do not apply to them. And with these two guys, the rules have never applied to them. And that's why they got in trouble. And they walked in with a whole bunch of CDC 115s. And the idea that they. I was so I was, look, they shouldn't have gotten, they shouldn't have gotten a parole hearing at all. They should both. LWOP was an appropriate sense life without possibility of parole. But the fact that they got a parole hearing, the board of prison terms of all things restored sanity on this and said, you guys are both. You don't follow the rules in prison. We can't trust you to follow the rules in society. You're murderers and you're still being dishonest about it. No, you're getting a three year denial like that was that restored my faith a little bit in the California criminal justice system. I didn't expect it from them. I expected it from the judge. And by the way, Nathan Hockman, who's the current da, everything he has said on that was right. Everything that he has come out and said publicly about them not admitting it about them, everything he has said has been exactly right. And at least for one more week, I will continue to support Nathan Hockman until we get into a cop case that I'm defending.
- [67:44]
A
Okay, well, we're very excited because you kind of announced you're writing a second book, right.
- [67:49]
B
And I just got an offer. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that yet, but I got an offer from Disney for book number two. And this one is going to be a. It's going to be the same format. It's my personal experience in the homicide unit. Only this time I'm going to. I prosecuted 14 serial killers, including the Golden State Killer and Rodney I'll call the Dating Game Killer. But I had 12 others that nobody's ever heard of before. And so it's going to be my first person, like my learning experience about serial killers and what I learned as I went through the homicide unit. And I'm going to talk about first case, second case, third case, and some of the things I saw and observed. And it is, I think it is an absolutely engrossing subject matter. I've been fascinated with it ever since I showed up in the unit and a lot of cases that nobody's heard of before. And I think it's really good. So Disney's excited about it. I haven't signed with them yet, so my agent is still working on terms and we're shopping it around A little bit maybe. I really shouldn't say that, but yeah. So I gotta. There's a deal in the works. I'm gonna do it for sure.
- [68:58]
A
Okay.
- [68:59]
B
It's just a question of who. I love the people I worked with at Disney. They were fantastic. And so. Yeah. So book number two is in the works. I've already started the writing and I think people really like it.
- [69:15]
A
And then where can they follow you and purchase your other book?
- [69:18]
B
Matt Murphy Law on Instagram. And I've got a. My. My book's called the Book of Murder. It's available on Amazon, Disney Books, Barnes and Noble. There's also. I should plug these guys. There's a little mom and pop brick and mortar bookstore in Manhattan beach called Pages of Bookstore.
- [69:38]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [69:39]
B
And I love those guys. So I'm. In fact, I'm going in tomorrow. I'm going to sign some more books. They have been wonderful. And this is a funny thing. I didn't know this. As an author, I think the nicest people, they say the nicest people in the world are the Irish. Right? The nicest people in the world are American bookstore owners. Like, you go in there, they're the nicest people and they're grateful when you're there as an author. And they're still. I had so much fun on my bookstore, on my book tour going to these random bookstores like in Utah. And like, they are so excited to see you and they're so nice to you.
- [70:09]
A
I remember that.
- [70:10]
B
Yeah, right. So that. My local is paige pagesabookstore.com in Manhattan Beach. The nicest humans on the planet, I think, and they've been great. So you can get a signed copy of the Book of Murder at Pages of Bookstore.
- [70:25]
A
Well, thank you, Matt. That's Matt Murphy, everybody. Follow him. Matt Murphy Law.
- [70:32]
B
Thank you for having me, Sam.