Murder in Palm Springs with Shannon McDonald Goldstein, Criminal Defense Attorney

Summary

Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald

Episode: Murder in Palm Springs with Shannon McDonald Goldstein, Criminal Defense Attorney

Release Date: October 29, 2025

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Brief Overview

In this episode of Juicy Crimes, Heather McDonald and her sister, criminal defense attorney Shannon McDonald Goldstein, dig into the 2008 murder of Clifford Lambert, an art collector and flamboyant Palm Springs socialite. The case unravels an elaborate web of scammers, “princes,” gay porn stars, and con artists, culminating in Lambert’s disappearance and the gripping courtroom saga that followed. The sisters, with Shannon’s personal connections to the players and prosecutors in the case, break down the twists, betrayals, and the ultimate unmasking of everyone involved—including more than one grifter. The episode strikes a balance between true crime intrigue and the signature lighthearted, gossippy tone of the show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Palm Springs & Clifford Lambert

• Context: Palm Springs as a historic enclave for Hollywood celebrities, particularly in the LGBTQ+ community. (03:02)
• Clifford “Cliff” Lambert:
  • 74-year-old, gay, art collector, “lived this lavish lifestyle,” had connections to old Hollywood (03:02).
  • Made his fortune selling high-quality art prints of famous works—“He had the genius idea of taking very, very famous pieces of art that’s in museums and printing them... And that is really where he made all his money.” – Heather (04:03)
• Palm Springs Setting: Offers a unique blend of old Hollywood glamour and modern LGBTQ+ culture; home to quirky traditions, like the Christmas parade.

2. Cliff’s Romantic & Social Circle

• Long-Term Relationship:
  • Cliff’s ex-boyfriend, Travis Hobbs, was much younger (19 when they met), relationship ended under mysterious “drowning in a Jacuzzi or...” circumstances (06:50).
• Eddie Mulligan (Gay Porn Star):
  • Befriended Cliff after a go-go dancing encounter at Hunter’s nightclub; describes their relationship as nonsexual but lavish.
  • “I kept putting dollars in my G-string. And he said, ‘We’re going to be fast friends. And I just knew we were.’” – Heather recounting Mulligan (08:43)

3. The Entrée of the Grifters

• Online Dating & “Danny the Freckled Gay”:
  • Cliff meets Danny Garcia, who presents as a wealthy young party boy.
    “He finds this guy named Danny Garcia, who is, you know, certainly presents himself as somebody who has lots of money...” – Shannon (09:29)
• The Fake Prince (Kashal Neroli):
  • Danny’s friend; claims to be an exiled Nepalese prince, furthering the illusion of money and prestige.
  • Both ingratiate themselves into Cliff’s glamorous life.

4. The Disappearance

• Missed Parade and Suspicious Communications:
  • Cliff vanishes before an expected appearance at Palm Springs’ Christmas parade.
  • Eddie receives a suspicious email from Cliff supposedly vacationing in Hawaii—“He never really wrote me emails before. Like, that’s weird, right?” – Heather (12:46)
• Missing Person Report:
  • Police involvement escalates after a realtor contacts authorities about a too-good-to-be-true property deal regarding Cliff’s house (13:44–14:39).

5. The Fraud and Investigation Deepen

• Realtor’s Suspicion:
  • “She does a little digging and realizes, lo and behold, that this house... belongs still to this guy, Cliff Lambert, who apparently is missing.” – Shannon (13:25)
• Bartender (Miguel Bustamante) and The Motel Room:
  • Bartender is caught cleaning out Cliff’s house, tries to deflect blame onto Danny and the Prince, claiming Cliff was kidnapped to Mexico for art theft.
  • Cops find evidence in a Motel 6, including Cliff’s ID and possessions (16:07–17:18).

6. The Juicy Tape & Operation 'CL'

• Phone Conversations in Jail:
  • Prosecutor Lisa Di Maria uncovers taped jail calls outlining “Operation CL (Cliff Lambert),” the con to extract millions from Cliff.
    “They think he’s worth, like, $68 million. And now I’m dating him. Here’s our next grifter plan…” – Shannon (20:43)
• Boasting and Luring:
  • Discussion of how Cliff’s ego and boastfulness attracted the wrong kind of people, setting him up as a target (21:53).

7. History of Scamming: Danny’s Legal Past

• Puerto Vallarta Lawsuit:
  • Danny previously staged a bogus child sexual abuse suit in which he paid young men to lie, netting a large wrongful lawsuit payout (28:36–29:48).
• Victimization of Friends:
  • Pattern of identity theft and credit card fraud, as shown with friend Tyson during an extended trip to Brazil (30:59–33:07).

8. Unraveling the Murder Plot

• Fake Art Inheritance:
  • Convoluted scheme where the Prince, posing as an attorney, convinces Cliff he’s inheriting art from a deceased heiress, luring him back to his home (34:18–35:47).
• The Murder:
  • Bartender and his Marine roommate are let into Cliff’s house, where Cliff is ambushed and killed. (37:25–38:00)
  • Discrepancies discussed about who knew what—was it a plot to scare, kidnap, or kill Cliff?
• Body Disposal:
  • Bartender later confides to a jailhouse informant, drawing a crude map to where Clifford’s body was buried (41:46–42:21).

9. Courtroom Circus and Grifter Tactics

• Pro Se Defense & Procedural Chaos:
  • Both Danny and the Prince represent themselves after going through nine public defenders, filing countless motions and even (unsuccessfully) suing the prosecutor for “prosecutorial misconduct.” “They come off as they’re being so rich and everything. Well, apparently there’s not… Because they qualified for a court-appointed attorney.” – Shannon (46:20)
  • Notable for acquiring a new MacBook in jail to access discovery, ironically leveraging their tech skills—“Part of his grifting talents is computers and technology...” – Shannon (50:39)
• Retrials Due to Judicial Bias:
  • Convictions were initially thrown out after the judge is caught on the illegal trial recording making homophobic remarks:
    “He said, ‘Doesn’t he have AIDS? Isn’t he HIV positive? That is disgusting. That’s gross.’” – Heather (54:16)

10. Appeal, Retrial, and Shocking Reveals

• Retrial:
  • New prosecutor, Rob Hightower, retries the case; a skull/jawbone consistent with Cliff is eventually found, removing all doubt of homicide (56:43).
• Further Tragedy and Tangents:
  • The fake Prince, who by 2022 identified as a transgender woman, is murdered by their cellmate in custody before retrial—“The cellmate said, I had to kill him, ‘cause he wouldn’t shut up.” – Heather (59:16)
  • Ongoing litigation against the sheriff’s department due to the cellmate killing, echoing high-profile prison negligence cases.

11. Aftermath & Irony: Who Was the Ultimate Grifter?

• Cliff’s Own Scams:
  • All of Cliff’s “priceless” art was fake—his entire collection consisted of prints, not originals.
    “All of his art… not one was an actual authentic original.” – Heather (64:46)
  • “Wow, he was a grifter too. Right. And Clifford was Cliff.” – Heather (62:55)
• Closing Reflections:
  • The story is ultimately a web of users—con artists exploiting a con artist: “They’re all users. None of them are completely truthful.” – Heather (63:16)
  • Sadness for Clifford’s fate, yet an acknowledgement of the gray morality at play.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cliff’s Persona:
  “There’s photos of him playing basketball… with Lucille Ball and all these people. Kind of like a Liberace type...” – Heather (03:02)

• On Gay Palm Springs Culture:
  “Palm Springs… became this place that gay Hollywood could go and be themselves and be safe and have friends.” – Heather (03:15)

• On the ‘Operation CL’ Tape:
  “Operation CL (Cliff Lambert) … Once you get out of jail, here’s our next grifter plan.” – Shannon (20:43)

• On the Ultimate Irony:
  “All of his art that he would tell Lucille Ball and everybody else… were all fakes. … He was a grifter too.” – Heather (62:55)

• On Grifters in Court:
  “They knew just enough to be dangerous... It really is the trait of a narcissist, I mean essentially a grifter is a narcissist, right?” – Shannon (48:58)

• On Judicial Misconduct:
  “He said, ‘Doesn’t he have AIDS? Isn’t he HIV positive? That is disgusting. That's gross.’” – Heather (54:16)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Palm Springs history and Cliff’s world: 03:00–06:00
• Eddie Mulligan and Cliff’s social scene: 07:00–09:00
• Danny and ‘the Prince’ introduced: 09:14–10:14
• Cliff goes missing, investigation begins: 11:07–12:59
• Realtor discovers fraud—house being sold: 13:44–14:39
• Bartender’s cover story and discovery of evidence: 15:03–17:18
• Phone tapes and “Operation CL”: 19:16–21:13
• Danny’s past legal scams: 28:36–30:19
• Stealing from friend, clue emerges in online comments: 30:59–33:18
• Art inheritance grift and the setup: 33:48–35:47
• The murder at Cliff’s house (details): 37:25–38:00
• Jailhouse map and search for the body: 41:46–42:21
• Danny and Prince defend themselves, court antics: 46:20–51:04
• Retrial after judge’s shocking bias is revealed: 54:13–56:00
• Prince killed in jail, Danny’s appeals and ADA complaint: 59:16–60:47
• Art collection revealed to be fake: 62:01–64:46

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Tone, Style, and Speaker Dynamics

Heather and Shannon maintain a brisk, gossipy, slightly irreverent tone, peppered with Palm Springs local color and legal shop talk. They blend true crime intrigue with the perspective of insiders—Shannon as a criminal defense attorney who personally knows the prosecutor and court players, and Heather with her flair for vivid storytelling.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a wild ride: none of the players are quite as they seem, and the lines between victim and con artist blur in this Palm Springs true crime tale. The sisters expertly untangle a case featuring a social climber-victim, a conman-turned-courtroom self-defender, a fake prince, a porn star confidante, shady lawyers, and a series of brazen frauds that went all the way to the courtroom and back again—twice. The episode offers juicy details without getting too dark, perfect for crime fans who enjoy both substance and style.

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Additional Resource

• Prosecutor Lisa Di Maria’s nuanced role and personal anecdotes highlight the unique intersection of Palm Springs law and local culture.

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For more connections to the case or legal help, Shannon Goldstein can be found at michaelgoldstein.net or @ShannonGoldstein on Instagram. (66:21)

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to Juicy Crimes Palm Springs edition. I'm here with my sister, criminal defense attorney at law Shannon Yellowflower McDonald Goldstein. Welcome back to Juicy Crimes.

[A]

Hi, Heather. I'm so happy to be back in Palm Springs.

[B]

We are technically in La Quinta, but that is in the Palm Springs area. And we are doing a whole fun Juicy Crimes theme by recording it here, because we are going to cover, we are going to cover a crime, a very juicy crime that happened in Palm Springs. And you actually personally know the female prosecutor who did the case. And this is a very juicy case that involves gay lovers, gay porn grifters. Grifters, con men, princes, whiz kids, and millionaire. Yeah, millionaire, old iconic women who loved their gay BFFs when they would visit Palm Springs.

[A]

It has it all.

[B]

And then, of course, you, in fact, knowing some of the players from the actual court that happened here in Palm Springs. So why don't you introduce us to this crime and all the basic details. And we will say if it sounds slightly familiar, we also wanted to share it with you because it was on DATELINE with our buddy Josh Mankiewicz.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which made it really fun. But if you have not seen it, you will enjoy this episode as much as if you did see it, because then you, you're gonna get our opinions on it as well. But let's walk through it. Yes.

[A]

And I'll try to simplify it. It's not that simple.

[B]

It is very confusing. So we do need to, like, clarify many things.

[A]

But I have to say, this is a crime that actually happened quite a long time ago, December of 2008. But it was pretty interesting to watch the Dateline because I saw a lot of people I did recognize and know. So I've been, as Heather has told you guys, I've been in the desert for a long time practicing law. And over the years, obviously, players change, but there were definitely some familiar faces. So this is unfortunately the murder of Clifford Lampert, who at the time was 74 years old and he was a gay art collector to the stars. They kind of described him. He lived in it is the Las Palmas area. It's called Ol Las Palmas area in Palm Springs. Beautiful homes, wonderful homes. And he just kind of lived this lavish lifestyle where he just kind of knew old Hollywood and knew all the people. Everybody wanted to hang out with him. He was a lot of fun.

[B]

Just to give some history of Palm Springs for anybody that doesn't really know of how it's grown throughout the decades is it was this, like, retreat In Haven, only two hours from la for Hollywood types from like Bob Hope to Lucille Ball, they all started to get homes there and have fun because it is really a great retreat. It is different weather than LA and it's only a two hour drive. And that's when these homes were all built in the mid century, in the 50s. And many of them have maintained their architecture and it's a really cool part of the history of Palm Springs. And then because it then became this place that gay Hollywood could go and be themselves and be safe and have friends. And of course, you know, so many women back in the day in Hollywood had many secretive gay friends that couldn't maybe be out and those relationships began. And this guy Clifford, wait, that's not his name, Cliff. Oh, Cliff was really kind of part of that world. There's photos of him playing basketball back in with Lucille Ball and all these people. Kind of like a Liberace type, right? And with all the fun that that time in that era happened and he made his money because he was into the art world. He wanted to be an actor in New York. He then got into the art world and he had the genius idea of taking very, very famous pieces of art that's in museums and printing them in that you would buy a print of it and you could frame it and people would know it was not an original. And that is really where he made all his money. But then he also had a lot of original, expensive art himself in which he would art deal back and forth with these celebrities. Yes, Rula supports every aspect of your mental health journey from therapy to medication management. With its diverse network of licensed, experienced professionals, Rula's therapists and psychiatrists make it easy for you to get the care you need. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.com juicycrime to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support Juicy Crime and let them know Heather McDonald sent you. That's R-U-L-A.com juicycrime. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. I've been using one skin for quite a while now and I absolutely love it. I love their tinted moisturizer that also has sunscreen in it. This is so easy when you're going out for a walk and you know you need that coverage this season. Don't just moisturize. Support your skin at the cellular level with Oneskin for a limited Time you can try OneSkin with 15% off using code juicycrime at OneSkin co. That's 15% off OneSkin co with code Juicycrime. After you purch, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support Juicy Crime and tell them we sent you. Try One Skin today. This episode is brought to you by.

[A]

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[A]

So, and you know, and he was in a relationship for 15 years prior to. To a very, a younger man. And around 2006.

[B]

Very young.

[A]

Very young, actually. I believe when they met, his boyfriend Travis Hobbs was 19. Was at 15. Was 19. He was not 15. Which would make Cliff about 50.

[B]

Pretty shocking.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

But even the sister was like, you know what? He loved his lifestyle with this older rich guy and it was fine. And then he died.

[A]

Yes, I think.

[B]

How did he die?

[A]

I felt like it was a drowning in a Jacuzzi or a, you know.

[B]

Seemed a little suspect.

[A]

It seemed a little suspect. But it could have been one of those situations where maybe he had a heart attack and a Jacu. I don't really, I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. They obviously, they didn't want to feature that part.

[A]

Right. And he would have only been about 35, so obviously very young. Tragic. So he, now he's single again and he wants to go on the dating scene. And at this point in time, he meets kind of a character, I call him in the porn world. His name was Eddie Mulligan. Kind of had, I would call that 70s feathered hairstyle look.

[B]

Well, what's kind of interesting is he start this guy started out as a model and then just went full blown hardcore gay porn back when you, you know, had to do like a million VHS videos and go to things and he was like on the COVID of like, you know, Little Boy Blue magazine or whatever it was called. And he found himself, I think, you know, like a lot, you know, it's not a lasting job, you know, like it's not like they get residuals off the VHS tapes. So he was just doing his go go dancing thing at Hunter's. At Hunter's.

[A]

And if, you know, Palm Springs, you know, Hunter's Yes.

[B]

And. And he's a great character to be part of a dateline. And he said that he was just shoving underwear. He goes, you know, he didn't even look me in the eye. Well, yeah, because you're wearing a G string and your dick is in his face.

[A]

He'd rather look at that.

[B]

I kept putting dollars in my G string. And he said, we're gonna be fast friends. And I just knew we were. And he said they were never sexual, but he was like, come with me to New York. And he would, you know, treat him to all these fun things and expensive life, and they're both wearing fur coats. And. And he's like, we were just really, really great friends. So then Clifford Cliff is like, I want a date. I don't know how to begin. He's like, well, you have to go online now. This is 2007. Eight, right?

[A]

Yeah, 2000. Well, 2007 is when his long term relationship ended, unfortunately. And. And so 2008. And I think he looks to this friend of his, Eddie's, and he says, I don't really know what to do. I do want to meet somebody. He goes, oh, you're going to have to do the apps. Because the guy was older now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so he does the apps and he finds this guy named Danny Garcia, who is, you know, certainly presents himself as somebody who has lots of money, is young, likes to party, is well to do. And he flies them out to Palm Springs and they start to enjoy each other's company. Okay.

[B]

And like, Danny's pretty cute. Yeah. Has some natural freckles.

[A]

Yeah. And he's young, which is interesting.

[B]

She did not get rid of him. You know, did you hear that Kim Zolciak apparently lasered off her daughter's freckles when she was 12 without her knowing. She just thought she was going to get, like a facial. And then all of a sudden she's like, where do my freckles go? And then her mom was like, oh, we got rid of those things. Anyway, this kid had a lot of freckles, but, like, a decently cute young guy.

[A]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

Okay, so then what happens?

[A]

So they start to. They start to date. And. And he's Danny. His name is Danny. And Danny is friends with this guy named Kashal Neroli. It's kind of. Yeah, Kashal Neroli. And he basically touts himself as this sort of exiled prince from Nepal, and he's got lots of money and they kind of hang together, and it's just all. Everybody's all Living the high life and nobody thinks anything suspect. And they're kind of hanging around together and I guess they start to all date and hang out together and they like Cliff because he's got a lot of art and they have a lot of fun. And then so basically what happens is everything seems to be fine. I think the friend Mulligan, Eddie Mulligan, goes, we're all going to go to the Christmas parade, which is this big.

[B]

Event that they had the gay porn guys. Eddie Mulligan?

[A]

Yeah, Eddie Mulligan. And so he expects to see his friend Cliff to come and meet them at the Christmas parade.

[B]

Which by the way, when they showed that Christmas parade, I'm like, that's something I never need to go to.

[A]

Well, I have been to it a couple of times.

[B]

It's pretty dork. Is it dorky? I mean, it was just like all these high school kids in a band.

[A]

Yeah. But you know who did it? You know who was the master of ceremonies was Ross Matthews. No. Lisa Vanderpump.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. Back in the day. And I want to say that that was when my kids were pretty young. So I would say maybe around two years after that.

[B]

So it can be fun.

[A]

Oh, yeah. But it's. I would say it's more of a family event.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So they're gonna go to this Christmas parade, and at this point in time, Danny and Cliff are dating and the prince is just a friend of Danny's. It's not like a three way or anything. I didn't mean to insinuate that. But this. Cliff doesn't show up. So Cliff doesn't show up. And a couple of days later, he's still. Can't seem to reach him. This is the best friend, Eddie. And he goes to the house and he sees that nobody's there, but it looks like there's been a glass with that and of alcohol that's still kind of in there. And then there was like cigarettes. I think that was almost like the day after that, that same night. And he goes, oh, he probably had company. Everything's fine. When he still doesn't hear from him, he goes back to the house and he realizes that everything's been cleaned up. So he thinks, okay, he's fine, but he hasn't heard from him. Then at this particular point in time, he starts to get an email saying, I'm in Hawaii and I'm having a great time. But that doesn't really sound like him. So now things are getting suspect because why would he go to Hawaii? He should be calling us. We don't know where he is.

[B]

And also, it's just so weird if you're in a calling texting. Well, back then there was not as much texting, but if you're in a calling relationship, suddenly you're choosing to write an email, like when you know, and he's like, he never really wrote me emails before. Like, that's weird, right?

[A]

It was really, really weird. So at that particular point in time, he does file a missing person's report. And he goes, something's not right here. I really need you to look at that. And that's when he goes to Palm Springs Police department and they start to look into it. And I think right around this time, there is an agent, a real estate agent in San Francisco who's working with this prince. And apparently she thinks she's got this great deal because she is. He's inherited this property, which happens to be Cliff's property, and just thinks that it's kind of suspect. So she does a little bit of digging and realizes, lo and behold, that this house that supposedly the prince had either inherited or it had worked out through some investment, belongs still to this guy, Cliff Lambert, who apparently is missing.

[B]

And can we just say, as a former realtor, like, what a bummer, because it started out where she. And she called the police. The police said, yeah, we got this call from a realtor and she's like, I have a client who, who has this house, this mid century modern, classic house with a pool in the best neighborhood, who wants to sell it fast. So it's like a realtor. That's a dream listing, right? The first offer that rolls in, you're gonna be done in a weekend. And then she goes to find out, oh, shit, I've been scammed. This is an owner that is missing. And whatever who this guy is, which I always talk about. Like, I don't know why grifters love to get realtors hopes up, but that is like one of the hardest parts about being a realtor is someone acting like they can afford the house that you're bothering to show them. But anyway, so that fell through. That girl's moved on. She has a podcast now. No, just kidding. I don't know.

[A]

But I mean, kind of thank goodness.

[B]

For the, for the real estate lady.

[A]

Too, because this, they could have maybe this alerted, taken this property without the alerting, because at this point in time, right when it's sort of been alerted, so. So now the police are like, this is interesting. So let me go to this property and lo and behold, there's this U Haul. And this guy's like, oh, well, my friend said that they're, you know, going to be selling this property and I'm.

[B]

To clean out the whole property.

[A]

And they're like, well, what do you mean? How do you know them? Well, you know, they said I would. I moved some art for them. They'd, you know, give me the Rolls Royce that's in there. Well, that's pretty suspect. Well, okay, well, why don't we talk to you further? And the guy goes, okay, no worries. Doesn't think that he needs an attorney. Goes back to the. Lets him walk into the hotel room that he's in there temporarily. And this guy, this bartender, his name is Miguel Bustamante. There's a lot of names. It can get a little confusing. He goes in and let's just refer.

[B]

To them as the bartender, the prince, and Danny, the freckled gay. Okay. I think I'll be that the easiest way. Okay. Okay. That might help me and the porn star. That's gonna be easier.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, actually. Okay. This might actually.

[B]

Because even watching it, I was like, this is so hard when they're just the two of them, like the. The attorney and, like, Josh Banker Wentz talking. I'm like, unless there's a photo. Every time that we're talking. We will share photos on this. But, like. But continue.

[A]

So.

[B]

So the bartender takes him back to his Motel 6, and there is like, Louis Vuitton luggage, all these things personally of this guy who's currently missing. Yeah. Who's currently missing all of his possessions. Actually taking them. He was already screwing over the people screwing over the, you know, missing guy because he was taking extra for himself.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And putting them in the hotel room.

[A]

Lots of grifters.

[B]

Motel rooms attract grifters.

[A]

Yeah. So. And in addition to that is Cliff's id. And clearly who is where Cliff is missing. So, you know, first he kind of tells a story going, oh, well, you know, I was just doing a favor. It's all in the up and up. This guy Cliff basically said that he sold his place or gave his place through this investment to this guy Danny and the Prince. And. But then he realizes this. I'm. You know, this. They're not buying it.

[B]

They're not buying this. The cops are not buying.

[A]

Yeah. So now I'm going to say, well, no, actually, they wanted to steal all of this art and. And so they kidnapped the Cliff and he's in Mexico so they can get all the art and they can.

[B]

That's what the bartender says.

[A]

Yes. And he's trying to pin it on.

[B]

Of course, the prince and Danny, the freckled gay. Okay, Correct.

[A]

So now, you know, we still have a missing person, and now we're trying to look farther into these two characters. Right. So then upon looking further into it, they find out that the prince, who maybe isn't on the up and up, is already dealing with a fraudulent. Fraudulent case where he's spending some time in jail at. In. And has some court hearings, and he's up in San Francisco and apparently he's.

[B]

Do you remember what the fraudulent case was that caused him to be.

[A]

No, I mean, I do remember. I mean, I remember it was some sort of thing where he had basically grifted and stole some other. Maybe another. Some other kind of art or some sort of. It might have been an insurance fraud. I'm not positive now.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

So he's already kind of. But he's doing his time and he's got this attorney. So now this attorney ends up ultimately being, you know, somewhat a part of this, too. And this attorney's name, we're just going to call him attorney, but his name is David Rapogli. So now they're checking out these guys. And in the meantime, we now have a prosecutor that's investigating this case because this is all very suspect.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So now we definitely have Miguel Bustamante, the bartender. And so the prosecutor. It was kind of fun for me to actually watch this because I was not expecting to see somebody that I know, and I'm like, oh, there's Lisa Di Maria, and she's a prosecutor. She's somebody that I've known for a long time and I've worked with. And so she is basically kind of talking about some of the things that she has to do. So one of the things.

[B]

Wait, but, yeah, but she also attended your baby shower.

[A]

She did. It was a long time ago because that little baby now is 21 years old. But, yeah, she attended my baby shower.

[B]

You were like young, cute female attorneys out in the desert, living your life.

[A]

Yeah. And then, you know, she. Yeah, and she's very good, very good attorney, very good prosecutor. So she is. And still pretty young at this.

[B]

She looked great in the date line. She's really attractive.

[A]

Oh, she is. She was very attractive. And this was like, you know, so this is all happening around 2008, beginning of 2009, as she's kind of going through what she needs to do. So one of the things that she decides to do with her team is Once they got a name of these guys, they go, well, let's look back and see the phone calls that this guy might have made when he was in jail, dealing with. And we're talking the Prince here when he was dealing with the San Francisco case. Well, I think anybody that wants to commit a crime and might go to jail, you should know this. Nothing you do and say in jail and prison is really private, even though it's supposed to be or should be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't want to be having these conversations. So apparently he's having a conversation with Danny.

[B]

And at this particular point, Danny, the freckled gay.

[A]

Yeah. And this is all apparently happening. They know each other. And this is happening before this alleged murder that happened in December. And he's saying things like, I have a she.

[B]

Hold on. So the. The prosecutor went back in time to look at those. To listen to those conversations. Because every conversation is taped.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And realized there was a conversation between the fake prince and the freckled gay Danny. That was about what was going on with a plan to get a lot of money from Cliff. Right. Okay.

[A]

And it's kind of almost like. Kind of the immaturity of it was language was like Operation Cl. Which means Cliff Lampert. Which basically means I've met this guy and they've now done their digging and they think he's worth, like, $68 million. And now I'm dating him. And this is gonna be. Once you get out of your jail or whatever. Here's our next grifter plan. Because it's pretty clear that this is what these guys did. They didn't wanna work and they wanted to make a lot of money. Yeah.

[B]

There's going to be a lot that gets revealed in this hour if you are not familiar with the case. But now that we know how it ends, which you'll soon hear, I think that Cliff told him he was worth 68 million because he was trying to woo him. He was trying to hook in another guy for 15 years like he did the other. Doesn't like to be alone, obviously. And so I think he was promising this young guy the world that. Just thinking he was a young dumb guy looking for a sugar daddy instead. A of a, like, experienced, conniving con man who also had a gay partner in crime who's pretending to be a fake prince. Right.

[A]

And later on, when you. Let's get farther into the date line. Lisa does indicate that the prosecutor. Prosecutor thinks that he was very boastful whether. Whether he had this money or not, he was very boastful Cliff of who he was. And you know, that certainly would attract a certain type of person that maybe is looking for, you know, a sugar daddy, for lack of a better term. But I think if Cliff had kind of said that, I think he really was wanted to present as a sugar daddy, not as anything else. But if the person on the other side is a grifter and obviously a criminal, then it could really go sideways, right?

[B]

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[A]

So it's, you know, and obviously we have a. We have a. There's a whole team, right? We have. You're always going to have like a DA investigator and I think there's now a fraud detective that comes in. His name is Simon Min. He's working with the police department of Palm Springs. So everybody's investigating and looking into this. And as the more they get into it, there's more people that kind of come to the surface. So now they think.

[B]

Also really fun. Part of the Dateline episode is like, this older lady, like Mitzi or something. No.

[A]

Oh, wait, I have. And she's in, like, Brisbane. What's her name?

[B]

I don't know. But she's like this older lady who's.

[A]

Like, oh, Barbara Brisby.

[B]

Barbara Brisby, who's like a gossip, but, like, would. God. Literally, they're like, she wrote gossip for Bottom Line magazine, which is like, about bottoms. Like, it's like a complete hardcore gay magazine. And she's like, yeah, I wasn't familiar. Queen of the town and, like, writing the gossip for that. And she's like, now she's like mid to late 70s, gray hair with, like, brightly colored framed glasses. And just to add to the fun of, like, them putting this Dateline together, they have Josh Bakerwitz and her in the back of like, a 1969 Cadillac, like, going, Going. Driving through Palm Springs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I mean, I really have to say, like, they really had some fun with, with doing the Palm Springs element of, like, this production value.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, the weather's perfect, the palm trees are out.

[B]

And then when, like, Josh is walking with a porn star.

[A]

Oh, that's the best.

[B]

He's like, so he's like, that name. Yeah. And his poor name is like, Kevin Kramer. And he goes, I want to thank you for choosing a porn name that Dateline can actually say. And, you know, I was like, okay, great. Like, oh, you've had quite the illustrious career. And it's like, oh, like, you're Just like, there's, like, photos of him.

[A]

Like, you know, like these magazines.

[B]

Bottoms up.

[A]

Like, these magazines you would not want to be looking at. But yeah. So.

[B]

Okay, so anyway, where are we now? Where are we in this story? Okay, so they. So she's starting to investigate, but they don't, you know, he's still missing. They don't have a body. One thing I kind of wonder. And, you know, obviously they can't cover everything, and I guess we could have find out. It's like, who did inherit the home. I wonder. Once they finally. Because it took. It took a really long time for them actually to find his body, but I guess they had to declare him dead before the trial started. But I just wonder, like, oh. Oh.

[A]

In. If in fact Cliff had maybe people that, like, family. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I wonder. I don't know, like, whoever got the house. And, like, maybe it was Eddie and who's, like, living in it now. And they're just like, here's Josh again, knocking on the door. Maybe.

[A]

Maybe it's the porn star. I mean, he certainly earned it. I mean, because as we see at the end, I think that guy really was somebody, because this case goes on for a long, long time.

[B]

Okay, so let's keep going back. So now let's like. Okay, so let's just kind of lead the audience to, like, what is interesting and get to it.

[A]

Well, I think what's kind of interesting, some of the things we were talking about was a little bit that comes out about Danny. Kind of like, well, who is Danny? And how did he become this great grifter? And I think the one story that you and I both found pretty interesting is that he basically. You know what grifters do? He sued somebody. He sued somebody for. It was this guy named Mr. White for basically saying, I'm a victim of sexual abuse. Child abuse.

[B]

Yeah, sexual abuse.

[A]

Sexual abuse. And then Danny has this attorney that ends up becoming a defendant, and they basically go to Mexico, or I think it was, or maybe some areas of America.

[B]

No, they went to Puerto Vallarta.

[A]

Puerto Vallarta, Yeah.

[B]

Which is also a really gay town in Mexico.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Ola has a lot of gay life.

[A]

But they go out and they basically seek out, like, 22 of these younger boys, and they basically say, if you just say that this guy sexually abused you too, we'll give you a payout. Right.

[B]

I'm guessing the guy must have spent a lot of time in Puerto Vallarta. Like, maybe he had a second home or something that would do that. And so in that they were able to get him arrested. Right. And while he's sitting in jail, did.

[A]

They file the lawsuit?

[B]

Right, they did get the lawsuit and Danny did get a chunk of change.

[A]

Like a half a million dollars.

[B]

And then so he got to be like the toast of the town, right. In San Francisco and whatnot. Which is where I think he met the fake prince.

[A]

Right. So he meet. So that. Yeah, so he's already getting that money and at the same time.

[B]

But in that case, they later find out that all those boys lied where they recanted or, you know, were paid to say what they're going to say. And the old man that never probably molested anybody was still in jail when he died.

[A]

Yeah. Which I think he died in 2013. Always claimed his innocence. You know, it's really sad, I mean, because basically they're just doing this constantly to see where they can. What can happen. So what was interesting is part of the stuff that also came in, more witnesses to some of this grifting that these, this Danny had done was this other guy, I believe his name was Tyson, who kind of was this gay guy in San Francisco and, and loved to hang out with Danny and the Prince because they always were at the bars and they would always buy everybody drinks and there were lots of fun. And during that time, there was a time where they went to like, they basically ended up stealing some credit cards that he had at his place.

[B]

Do you remember that Danny stole the guy, Tyson, who was friends with the Danny, the freckled gay, and also knew of the Prince. He went and just took off for like a month to like have a vacation and appeared to have like a pretty normal job and stuff. And then he like checked his accounts one day he was doing one month in like Brazil, right. And all of his accounts were like emptied and his credit card was being used. So he kind of freaks out, hops on a plane, comes home and sees that Danny has been using his credit cards, went seeing, actually saw his face at the atm, plugging in his numbers, taking his money. So he had to deal with that whole situation knowing that this guy was not a true friend to him or boyfriend or whatever they were right? And, and he came into play because when this case started to get reported about somebody in the comments of an online article said, well, the last guy, the last time I saw Cliff, like just someone in comments who like lives in Palm Springs said, the last time I saw Cliff, he was with a pretty good looking, young Indian looking guy. And that is when the Tyson guy goes, oh, I know that's the guy, the fake prince. Right, I know it. That's the fake prince. And Danny's involved with this guy. The two of them must be hanging out. And that's why then he called the detectives and was like, I have something. And I just think that's so interesting because there's so many times in when I'm working on Juicy Scoop that I read the comments and I do find out information just by somebody just going, well, you know, so, right. So, like, this happened. And so this really. This really, like, actually, whoever made this comment, whatever gay guy this was who was at Hunter's that night and just happened to see the article and was like, I remember seeing Clifford, like, on one of the last nights, and he was with this guy. Like, he, like, cracked open. Kind of cracked open the case. Like just a comment on a. Right.

[A]

So that's how they were really able to find these two guys. And obviously they had Miguel and then the bartender, and the bartender could lead them to that, too. But it was just interesting because of all of these connections.

[B]

And then what also is interesting, and now this is coming. So now this is coming together, is they found that there were these answering machine messages or voicemail messages of this man who sounds like he has an English type accent, right? English accent, Indian accent, calling Cliff and saying, hello, I represent, you know, some rich heiress, Bunny, whatever her name is.

[A]

Lauren May Florin, May Flora and May I do.

[B]

And she was a New York heiress who he, of course, had photos with and was socializing with. And she had died a while back.

[A]

She had died, like, 1995. And she really did have some serious art pieces. And the idea was, was he was hoping to inherit one of those art pieces, and he never did. So I think he kind of just didn't think about it. But then suddenly he gets a phone call from this attorney that says, oh, by the way, you really do get to have this art piece.

[B]

Yeah, there was a meeting with. A meeting with you. There was a secondary will or something, and she wanted to leave all her art to you. So when can we do this? And so he shares it with his friend, the gay porn star. And the gay porn star says, well, please don't have these people come to your house. Meet them at, you know, a fun restaurant instead in Palm Springs, like a public place.

[A]

Which I think they did. Which he did. And so I think I want to make one correction, because it was unclear. Danny and the prince were always together. But at this time, Cliff only knew Danny. He didn't Know the prince because the prince ends up taking acting as this attorney. So when he meets. When Cliff meets this attorney, it's not an attorney.

[B]

It's actually the prince, who is actually not a prince. So we're saying the fake prince is now pretending to be a fake attorney representing this woman who died, like 15 years prior, who actually had left money to Cliff. And Cliff's, you know, all excited money because it's art. And he would know how to turn these pieces of art even into more money. And like, wow, this is amazing. He's all excited. So he does start to trust the fake prince.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he invites them over.

[A]

Like, I think it's like a second night. He invites him over because he says, oh, I just need you, if you don't mind. Let's go back to your place. Cause I have some paperwork. And then we can go through that paperwork there. And so they have a drink, they have some cigarettes.

[B]

And it's like a specific kind of like Henson and Benson and Hedges. Yeah, Benson and Hedges. I don't smoke, so I don't know. But so they have those cigarettes and. Or they do. And that was the last. You know, and then that was. The remnants of that encounter is what the gay porn star saw when he hadn't heard from his friends for a few days. And then when he came back, it was all cleaned up. We don't know who cleaned that up. We don't know if Danny cleaned it up. We don't know if he had a regular maid service that once they, you know, obviously we know now, like, they took Clifford. Maybe she came every Thursday, and she just came and cleaned up and ran the dishwasher and whatever, you know, we don't know who came up.

[A]

Why that Benson and Hedges is important is because later on, the technology comes in, and there are a lot of downloaded texts, and we'll get more into that. But in the text between the prince and Danny, they talk about clean up the Benson and Hedges. So that's why there's a connection incriminating that particular prince on that issue. Okay. But there also is more defendants. So the idea is, is they were going to get rid of Cliff. So once they got Cliff in his home, they apparently had brought two other guys in. The bartender and the bartender's roommate, which we find out later, I think is. I think his Last name is McCarthy, who's like an ex Marine. So he ends up the Prince without Cliff realizing this. Goes to a door, lets the guys come in.

[B]

The bartender, the Marine.

[A]

Right. And then they just Kind of surprise Cliff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so the prince is kind of, like, out of it. And Cliff's like, what's happening? What's happening? And unfortunately, it results in. In the death of Mr. Lambert, according.

[B]

To the Marine, who was the dumb roommate who got roped into this thing, which I'm like, it's pretty disturbing to think that, like, you went through military training and you'd be so quick to throw your life away because someone's like, hey, if you just help me kill this person, like, you'll get a big payout. Right? Like, it's really.

[A]

Well, the bartender thought he was gonna get the Rolls Royce. I mean, it really is that. You really think, hey, we do. It's almost like we do this all the time. And, you know, you kind of wonder. I don't know. This is my take. From what I. From what I saw. I don't know if the Marine, the ex Marine, I think he might have just thought that it was gonna be more of a kidnapping or more like, we're gonna take this guy away. I don't know if he thought it was gonna be a murder, because in the end, he sort of holds him with the knife. But I don't know if he actually thought that the bartender who then ends up basically, you know. Well, actually, the Marine is the one that actually gave the statement to the police department and brought him. I don't know if the Marine knew that it was going to be a murder.

[B]

Okay, do you recall, or do you have your notes? Was the Marine then got immunity for spilling the beans on the whole story of how it happened and taking the detective and also appearing on Dateline to show how the crime happened? Does that mean you get off the hook? No.

[A]

He did not get immunity, but he did get a plea deal. He did not go to trial. His plea deal, I believe, was voluntary manslaughter, and it was 25 years, as opposed to 25 years to life. So with 25, still had to do 25 years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was always kind of wondering when, like. Because I kind of felt like they really didn't know who the Marine was, and they kind of knew that he was then a roommate and. And then, at least the way the show presents it, he just kind of spills the beans. Like, I don't think. In addition to not being very smart by getting himself involved in this, I don't think he was very smart the way he handled the aftermath as far as a plea bargain, getting a lawyer, et cetera. So I don't think we're Talking about the brightest brand.

[B]

So was it the dumb bartender who then draws that map?

[A]

Talk about that. A guy.

[B]

The jail cell situation where a prisoner who's sharing a cell with the dumb bartender says, he told me how everything went down and they took him in the desert and they threw him whatever, in a shallow grave there. And they show the map, which is very remedial and not very detailed. And that's the only evidence they have because they never find the body. But they feel it's enough, the prosecution, enough to go forward with putting all four of them on trial, which is the attorney who helped in the original fake story about Danny being molested by the guy. And all the young Puerto Rican kids, or Puerto Rican kids, they think they get him. And on murder, along with Danny, the freckled gay, along with the fake prince, slash, fake attorney of the old woman who was gonna leave all the art to clench the victim. And along with the bartender who essentially was the one that, you know, took the knives and stabbed him enough in the back that he died and they put him in the back of the trunk and then threw him in the desert. Right.

[A]

And what, you know, what's. What's kind of. What's kind of interesting is that they got a lot of the ability from the. From an informant, which most prosecutions do rely on an informant. But I guess this bartender was this good looking kid from San Francisco. And he's not really sure who to trust, so he gets this roommate.

[B]

And the roommate, I mean, the roommate.

[A]

Becomes the informant and basically says, look, no, this is the informant in jail. And the informant basically.

[B]

Well, not the roommate then. You mean the bartender.

[A]

But hold on.

[B]

The bartender. Cellmate. Yes. Okay, well, that's what.

[A]

And bartender.

[B]

But it's also the bartender's roommate who was the marine who joined them on the night, the final night.

[A]

Correct. But a big part of that map was when the bartender was in jail and his cellmate, I. E. The informant.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

The. The jail informant basically convinced him and said, tell me where the body is. I'll have my guys move the bottom body. Okay, well, here's the body. And then they give that remedial kind of map to the detectives. And then the. And then I thought that was kind of almost comical because you look at the map and it just. It looks like something like that Tyler Henry would do when he. Like it just looks like it's chicken scratch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then. And then they're gonna. They just. Then that just shows the two detectives in a car driving up like the. You know the five and they're just gonna start digging. I didn't really understand that. I guess there was some truck that they said at the end of the truck is where the. It didn't seem like there was a whole lot of direction. I wasn't surprised that they didn't find something, at least at that time. Right, but at this particular point in time, they've arrested everybody. And then clearly they do have the Marine that gives the entire statement against the bartender. He also gives a statement against the prince. And so the only person that's really not present and it's determined that he's not present is Danny.

[B]

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[A]

Do you know how many there are? Up to you to find out. So Danny's not there, but then they find out. And this is where the technology is kind of interesting, I guess. In 2008, the only everybody had Blackberries. Nobody really texted that much. And it was like. And then there was an Apple iii. Well, Danny, they call him the whiz kid because he's just sort of this technological genius. And then when they. They end up looking at his place and getting a warrant. They also say he has, you know, numerous phones and computers and all kinds of stuff that even back then would have been a lot.

[B]

Right, which is how he was able to hack into The Tyson guys, accounts, bank accounts and whatnot. When that guy was in Brazil and found out who's using his atmosphere, he also, at one point, I remember the gay porn star said that Cliff complained that he caught Danny, like in his study going through his stuff. Right. They were like, whatever, seeing each other.

[A]

So it seems like Cliff must have known something was going on. But maybe he got drawn into the little, you know, to the fact that he might be making some money. You know, you kind of wonder what was really happening.

[B]

Making money from.

[A]

From the art, you know, because maybe he bought into that. Maybe he bought into the art that.

[B]

Was being from the lady. Yes. So he was looking forward to that. Yes, yes. This is why it's like a lot like I was kind of like, God, I wonder how well received this episode was. Because, yes, I enjoyed it, but I was like, it was like a test. Yeah. Like, it was so many players. And then I'm like, okay, now I understand. So we go to trial. Yes, we go to trial. Your friend is the prosecutor. Yes. And the fake prince and Danny, the freckled gay decide to represent themselves after.

[A]

Going through like nine attorneys. Nine court appointed attorneys. Now I always love it because they come off as they're being so rich and everything. Well, apparently there's not. They're not because they qualified for a court appointed attorney. So after they go through the public defender's office and all the attorneys on the court appointed list, they decide to represent themselves because of course, they're smarter than everybody else. Right. And so it goes, you know, they're both pretty articulate. They can both argue the facts.

[B]

You know, I want to say, I know that's always like the dumbest thing in the world. And I've said this before with like Lori Valo, the world's worst mother, decided to represent herself after she already got committed to life for the death of her two kids regarding, like her ex husband and I think the brother. And then there was another case with like her nephew. I don't know, there were so many other murders and she was representing herself. And I was like, well, I mean, like a classic narcissist that she was. You got nothing to lose, right? You've got nothing to lose. A criminal offense attorney, that's a public defender, whatever, is not going to work the hardest for you. And it's kind of fun. You get to play lawyer. And why not? Like, I mean, I can kind of see why they did. And with the two of them, they're like, we're so good at like scamming and suing, in fact. So while she is doing the case, your friend, the prosecutor, she actually gets served a bogus lawsuit from the Prince and Danny the Freckle de Gay, saying that we are going to sue you for malicious. Malicious prosecution of U.S. prosecutorial misconduct.

[A]

Yeah, pretty. Pretty crazy that in fact she indicates that she actually, you know, had to, you know, testify as to this while this case was going on.

[B]

So I have to say, I have to say in the, in the traits, if someone's going to do like the 10. You know how they say there's 11 traits of a narcissist or whatever, if you were to come up with like the 10 traits of a grifter, I would say besides like being charming, love bombing. Whether it's friends or romantic or gay or straight, I would say the second is being really smart around suing. Right? You know, remember with Dirty John, he was like, excellent at like just fucking your life up. Just knew how to waste your time in court. Knew just enough to be dangerous. Same thing with squatters, right? You know, when they get into your house and they don't leave, it's like they know just enough law to be fucking dangerous. Right?

[A]

Well, that's also the trait of a narcissist. I mean, essentially a grifter is a narcissist, right? And they also have this very much this fuck it attitude. They don't really care. It's. It really is kind of a. I think even Danny's cousin at one point in time identifies himself as a sociopath. But it's the. That's what it is. They don't care. Care. There's.

[B]

We didn't even get into Freckle Danny's cousin because that. I, I felt like there was no point.

[A]

I, I kind of agree.

[B]

I was like. It was like he was his driver one night, but he like. And then I just think they were like. It just was another confusing player. So there. So she's trying to prosecute these four guys and she does get a conviction with the attorney and the dumb bartender.

[A]

Well, yeah, and I think, I think they went first and then, and then she was a. I mean, were kind of like stepping, you know, through it. But yeah, she's able to get. I think there was two trials. It was first the, the attorney and the bartender. And then. And that was a con that was pretty quick. And then it was because they were also represented by counsel. And so there was maybe a little bit more streamlined for Danny and the Prince who represented themselves. One of the, the other Reasons why this case seemed to go on and on and on, even before, even at the first trial was they had a lot of pre trial motions. They would file pretrial motions all the time. And part of when you are representing yourself, you are entitled to certain assistance. So you don't have a court appointed attorney, but you might have a court appointed investigator. And in this particular case they had a laptop in order to receive the discovery, go through the discovery, organize a discovery.

[B]

He was gifted a very nice Apple Mac laptop.

[A]

Right, which obviously Danny was. Yes, obviously Lisa wasn't very happy about that, but that's what the court gave him, which is kind of ironic because part of his grifting talents is computers and technology, et cetera. So at the end, after three long years, she gets her conviction. And that conviction comes September 2012, and now it's not.

[B]

And you saw her right, that night, Right?

[A]

Well, you know, it was so interesting. When I was going through this case, I kind of was like, gosh, you know, I remember this dinner, my girlfriend, it was a birthday dinner and there was like eight or nine of us and we were all together and Lisa was at that dinner. And I, and I remember it because I remember she came in and she goes, I just got my, you know, a guilty verdict. Everyone was like, oh my God, that's amazing. And you know, you can only imagine.

[B]

Just release and the relief because also she said during this time she was getting a very scary death threats. I don't know if that was online, I don't know if that was coming from Danny, but under an anonymous disguise or something. But to the point where she did leave the Palm Springs area and like stayed at a hotel in San Diego just to feel safe during this time. So you can imagine the relief. She meets you at Costello's, right? Which is a classic Castelli's, is like a classic Italian kind of old fashioned mobster situation. It is a girl's dinner and she comes and as you can imagine, you know, there was what, what a whirlwind it has been. I mean, I always think of like when you're really doing these huge cases, it must be so exhausting. And you even said, you know, she wasn't totally herself.

[A]

No, I remember she was just. I mean, it was a big night. It was like, I mean, I was like, wow, you know, I can't even imagine. I finally have reached the end of this case. And just so you know, I mean, cases, obviously when a convict conviction comes down, we then have the sentencing phase and the sentence, particularly on A case like this, a sentencing phase can be very long and drawn out. Anyway, so on this particular night that I saw my first. But it was interesting because I was like, oh, my gosh, was that the night? Because obviously Lisa, this was not her first murder case that she had tried, and it was not the first guilty verdict she got. So when I was looking back over it and I realized, I think that was the actual. The dates matched up. So I thought, that's crazy. What a small world we live in. So now this is where it gets even extra, extra juicy. So normally at this particular point in time, long drawn out already, very, very interesting case, you would now say we're going to get sentenced. Yes, they're going to appeal, but it's done, it's done, it's over. Well, you know, the grifter is always a grifter. So he manages to figure out a way with his laptop during the trial to start recording that. Not just the trial, but the elements that are not on record. Obviously, that is illegal. You cannot do that. I think he was caught doing it, and then he keeps doing it. And then in the appellate process after a conviction comes down, because that starts happening, they basically find in their illegal recordings that the judge at the time said some inappropriate things, some things that were deemed bias off the record to his clerk. And they're not great. They're. They're derogatory. They're.

[B]

I'll just say what it is because it's on the daylight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He said, oh, he's was licking these envelopes for us to look at some sealed envelopes about Danny. And the judge says, doesn't he have aids?

[A]

Isn't he.

[B]

Isn't he HIV positive? That is disgusting. That's gross. So that was pretty, pretty bad. And that was enough at that time to really fuck it up for everybody because it looks very homophobic and biased. And maybe they. Maybe these four gay men didn't get a fair trial. Maybe. You know, I can imagine what someone who is defending them could say, like, you know, you're an old fart, white, straight judge in a town that's very gay. You probably don't like the fact that.

[A]

You know, and this was, you know, this was 2012. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been now. But it was bad enough where I don't think the DA's office really pushed back that much. They recognized that, how this would look.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think there might have been other comments that would really have really connected, not just the inappropriate comments, but to something that could have been biased. That could. Those comments could have meant that I was making calls and rulings on motions that maybe were based on my bias and not based on what was.

[B]

Was.

[A]

Was the law. But is really frustrating because as a pro, a prosecutor would look at it and go, yeah, but that has nothing to do with this case. We had enough evidence and the jury came to a correct verdict.

[B]

But, yeah, like school, like. Like put the. The judge on probation but not throw away the whole thing. Right. But they did. So then they had to have a complete retrial.

[A]

Right. Now, the good news is, as I understand it, is it's a murder case. So they were not released on bail. They were still in custody. But, you know, in the meantime, all kinds of things can happen with the retrial. And the grifters are grifters, and I don't know the details of it, but they came up with all other kinds of things. I think that whole thing that happened was with that particular judge. I don't think that actually, that appeal actually even came into being until maybe 2016. So more and more time goes by. So now we retry again. There is a new prosecutor. His name is Rob Hightower. And as the years have passed, lo and behold, they did end up finding, I believe it was a skull or a jaw.

[B]

They did. So they get the new. The new attorney gets a call. Somebody found this head, and they were able to match it, and it was, in fact, his. So now they say, now there is no doubt that this person is dead.

[A]

Right. But they don't know how he died. The only way that particular. There wasn't enough forensic evidence to show how they died. But they did still have the testimony of the two other guys that said it was stabbing the Marine.

[B]

So they go through the whole thing, and he did get the old fake. Not fake, the old attorney that was there from doing the fraudulent stuff from the beginning with Danny and the dumb bartender. They do both can get convicted again.

[A]

And just a note, people might wonder, well, how was this attorney? I understand how the attorney was a bad guy in the case with the Puerto Vallarta boys and the sexual case, but how is he a part of this case? Well, apparently, when they were doing all of the fake documents to basically give the. The house to the prince and Danny, his fingerprint was on the forged documents. So that's what tied that attorney to this murder case.

[B]

I wonder if they didn't really get into that, but I wonder if. If he had a good defense, why they wouldn't Try to say, yes, he's guilty of the fraud scam of a 78 year old man, but he had no idea that it was gonna lead to murder. He thought, we'll be able to scam it because he'll be in love with this guy. And you know. Yeah, but it must have been, well, why, what were you planning on doing when suddenly this guy was outside of his home? Like. No, I agree, obviously, you know, but.

[A]

I feel like the attorney might have been. Had a better chance despite that fingerprint. But you know, I mean, he also, as an attorney, you would think that this, he knew exactly who he was dealing with because he's had dealt with this guy before. So I just want to throw that out there. But yeah, ultimately at the end, yes, we do finally get a conviction. But it was interesting because I think the actual sentencing, which is still, still on appeal, but I don't think these, these both of the. Well, actually, I take it back. I. I need to go back one second. Danny is also convicted, but in the retrial, which then happened in 2022, right before that happened, the prince apparently is then murdered by his cellmate, is beaten up to death, which, you know, the timing is kind of interesting.

[B]

And the cellmate, before he goes to trial, and the cellmate said, I had to kill him, cuz he wouldn't shut up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He just was talking so much he couldn't take.

[A]

So apparently I did another, I guess in part of the appeals that are ongoing with the prince's family, I guess there is now ongoing a lawsuit, of course, against the Riverside County Sheriff's Department because like, kind of like the Epstein.

[B]

Thing, they allowed this.

[A]

They allowed it. And apparently they, they did it because they didn't like him. Because I guess at that point in time, by the time 2022 happened, the prince had now identified as a transgender woman.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yes. I just kind of found this at the very last minute. Not in the Dateline now, I don't know.

[B]

So now he's a transgender woman, maybe hoping to get transferred to a female jail.

[A]

Maybe. And maybe. And I don't know, maybe.

[B]

And so now that's probably adding to the case of like, this was a, a crime against a trans LGBTQI person. Well, which makes it worse.

[A]

I would be curious to look at that lawsuit that's still apparently, maybe ongoing against the sheriff's department. So this just lawsuit after lawsuit. Then. The other thing that I found out that I didn't tell you about the last minute was after Danny ultimately does get convicted, and then but then he starts filing all of these lawsuits and motions to put off his sentencing, one of which he said there was a violation of the American Disabilities act because he wasn't getting the proper case in custody because apparently he has this rare skin disease where he can't get much sun. That is the freckles.

[B]

Oh, okay, interesting.

[A]

So when you look at it, when I really look back at, like, Lisa or Ms. Di Maria, the prosecutor. Yeah. I can only imagine the length and frustration of this case and just that they're still doing it to this day. I mean, they're going to be in prison for the rest of their life, but they're still playing these games like, it's like you. They don't know any other way to do it. It's. It's pretty. Well, it's obviously pretty brazen, but.

[B]

Well, here's the juiciest of the juice at the very end. Okay, so the pieces of art that were taken off of the walls of Clifford's house, in which Danny or whatever stole with his cousin and tried to cell before he even went missing. Or maybe he was missing at that point and they discovered all the art in that house. We don't know who got the house in the end. All of his art that he would tell Lucille Ball and everybody else that were originals and worth so much money and would. Could woo young men in a lifestyle of infinite wealth. We're all fakes. They were all prints, like his business.

[A]

So he.

[B]

None of them were real.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. And I am saying, wow, he was a grifter too. Right. And Clifford was Cliff. And I think that he probably, throughout his life sold fake art to rich people and rich women that loved having a gay BFF that were widows or divorcees. And which. Why he was probably like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm gonna get this windfall of this woman's, you know, actual rich, you know, real art, which I can probably then do prints of that and sell doubles of. Who knows what he was thinking? And I think he was telling Danny that. And I think he. He was a grifter. I mean, you're best friends with, like, a. Not that you can't be best friends with a gay porn star, but I'm just saying, like, he. I just don't.

[A]

Well, it was all fake.

[B]

Right. And he was fake, too. And then, you know, and I mean, just in the end, what's interesting about a story like this is, like, usually when you hear, like a Dateline thing, it was like, oh, you know, she lit Up a room and she was, you know, a mother of three and stuff. And I'm just like all of them are just kind of like users.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

They're all users. None of them are completely truth. Truthful. Certainly. 78 year old Cliff is not a murderer. He did not deserve to die. If he swindles some people out of money throughout his life, that doesn't, he doesn't deserve what happened to him. Thinking that he, these people were his friends, whether they were all going to do a crime together or he was completely hoodwinked. It's very sad. But you know, he's pursuing boys that are 50 years younger than him. Right.

[A]

Well, I mean one thing that I kind of wondered about was if. If he really truly. If all this was fake and he really was drawing people in. And more than likely Cliff unfortunately probably was making money off fake. So that would be fraud.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I would love to hear from some of these women or other people, other, these art collectors that collected art from Cliff. I mean, did. Do they know that they have a fake piece in their house right now? Like I'm always kind of. I just kind of wonder about things like that.

[B]

I mean there's probably somebody that's like watching around right now that's like, oh my God. Oh my God, I gotta go to. I gotta go to my grandmother's house.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or they've been telling their boyfriend, if we ever are in trouble, Granny's Picasso is worth 2 million. And then they like are like, wait a minute, you can't just get a.

[A]

Piece of art appraised just by anybody. I mean it does require a little bit of work to make sure that this is. And there's probably just so many people that were probably like, oh, he's so great and he's so generous and everybody knows he's such an art collector. Why would we ever do doubt that.

[B]

He had the walls. Yeah. And it wasn't even like some were fake. It was like every single thing that he ever had that was art in his house, not one was an actual authentic original.

[A]

Right. But he sure said it was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then brings out all the people like the Danny's and the princes of the world that just. Right.

[B]

Who.

[A]

Yeah. They're all just kind of phony. And I'm trying to think if there's anything. Am I missing? Are we missing anything?

[B]

I think that's it.

[A]

It was a long one. Yeah.

[B]

But it was great that you actually knew the prosecutor. She was a really great prosecutor. It was fun to hear her story and that you guys were friends and the frustration of something like that when you finally get to the finish line and then this happens because of a judge saying a completely homophobic, awful thing.

[A]

Well, I mean, the thing is, I recognized a lot of faces, and that's what makes it kind of cool. And, you know, they kept showing Larson justice center, which is where I go to work every day. So, I mean, the whole thing was, like, a little, like, really real, but kind of cool, you know, that you see these. These faces that you've seen before. Like, sometimes I would stop it, and I would ask my husband. I'd be like, who's that? Isn't that the investigator you've used before? I mean, like, it was just kind of funny to like, okay, I know I recognize this person. So, anyway, very cool. Glad that it could, you know, be shown to everybody to kind of see.

[B]

You know, a story, a real life.

[A]

Story that happened in Palm Springs. Yeah.

[B]

Let us know what you guys thought in case you watched it and hope you enjoyed it. And, Shannon, tell everybody where, if they need any legal advice or help, where they can find you. And, Michael.

[A]

Yes, it's at Michael Goldstein.net and my name. I'm also on Instagram, and it's just Shannon Goldstein at Instagram. And, yeah, I'm always around. Thanks.

[B]

Thank you, brother.

[A]

Thank you.