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All of it. It's so scary and it's like so creepy because I like horror movies that are set in a realistic setting. Like this could be any of us.

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Kate Casey (5:30)

that lives on the next street. And so Martha's home sort of backs into their home there. There's. It's a neighborhood of stately homes, so bigger properties. So that family is the Skakel family. So their parents were Rushton and Ann Skakel. Rushton is one of seven children of George and Ann Skakel. So George started this company called the Great Lakes Carbon Corporation, and it was extremely successful. They had seven children. Those parents died in a plane crash. So the oldest brother took over the company. He died, and then he gave, and then Rushton Skakel took over ownership again. Rushton's sister, one of the seven children, is Ethel Skakel Skakel, who went on to marry Robert Kennedy. So Rushton Skakel's children, that's the connection. So Rushton Skakel's seven children, sister married Robert F. Kennedy. Okay, so. So all of these Skakel seven children are first cousins of Robert Kennedy's and Ethel Skakel Kennedy's children. So they're first cousins.

Podcast Host (6:40)

Right.

Kate Casey (6:41)

So this house is different than the Moxley house. The Moxley house is very warm and engaging. The Skakel family at home is a little bit more wild. They have six boys and they have one girl. So it goes boy, girl, and the rest are boys. So their parents were strict Roman Catholics. And Skakel, their mother gets diagnosed with breast cancer, and they never discuss it in the family. It's just never discussed. She gets treatment for a while, and then she dies. And they never discuss the fact that she died. It's just like, move on with your life.

Podcast Host (7:14)

Now, question, when she passed, like, how was, how old was the youngest? Did they. Did he quickly get a new wife? Did they have a nanny? Like, how did they.

Kate Casey (7:23)

So the youngest, okay, so in 1975, the youngest is nine years old, and she had been dead for three years. So he was about six years old.

Podcast Host (7:31)

Oh, my gosh. Horrible.

Kate Casey (7:32)

So he hires this woman to kind of be their nanny, and he also hired a live in tutorial. The first day of the live in tutor's job happened to be October 30, 1975. So it's mischief night. Everybody's congregating at the Skakel house because this is a house where there's. There really. There isn't any rules, as you can imagine. Now the father is depressed. He's also an alcoholic and he's not really doing a great job running this corporation that's been handed down to him. So if you can only imagine the chaos of this house. So father's not even in town that night. So kids are just running wild. And there are kids in the neighborhood that have kind of congregated at the house.

Podcast Host (8:19)

And now the ages of the kids, the seven kids on the night of the tragedy are from what to what now? Nine is the youngest and nine is the youngest.

Kate Casey (8:29)

Tommy Skakel is 17. Julie Skakel, I believe she may have been home. She's the second, she's the sister, but the oldest is not at home. He's like off in college. She's not there. So you have kids. What's important to know is kids three through seven are at home.

Podcast Host (8:46)

Yeah, number three through seven.

Kate Casey (8:48)

Yes, three through seven. Okay. So number three is Tommy and he's 17 years old. Number five is Michael and he's 15 years old. So on the night of mischief night at 9:30pm Martha has to go home because her curfew is 10 o' clock and she had missed her curfew a couple nights before and she got in trouble for it. So the kids are congregating and they're about. There are four kids that are last that are around Martha about 9:30 and there's her friend Helen Ickx and another boy, Tommy Skakel and Martha, Helen, the other boy, they go back to their homes, they go separate ways. So the last person to see Martha alive is Tommy. Now Investigators know at 10 o' clock Martha, on her way back to her house, gets beaten to death with a nine iron. And it's this specific golf club called the Tony Panna. And they know that because when they found her body the next day, which I'll get in, get to in a minute, it's in pieces. They, they find the head of the golf club and part of the shaft is like stuck through her. She's.

Podcast Host (9:54)

Oh my God.

Kate Casey (9:55)

It is a gruesome sight. There also seems to be a pile of leaves with blood on it. And they can see that she had been dragged at one point. So that says to me it's an unsophisticated killer. She's initially beaten in a spot that would have been visible to somebody in their home and then dragged underneath the tree. So at about 3 o' clock in the morning, Dorothy Moxley realizes her daughter is not home, start calls police. She's trying to contact neighbors in the morning. Have you seen Martha? Maybe she slept over at someone's house. She goes across the street to the Skakels. Michael answers the door. Michael, have you seen her? I haven't seen Martha. It isn't until 12 o' clock on Halloween. So the next day that Martha's friend Sheila McGuire finds her friend's body in the backyard of the Moxley home under a tree. And that's sort of where this all starts to unravel. It's a case of who actually did it. What makes this interesting is that over the years, Tommy Skakel number three in the Skakel home and Michael Skakel number five, they've had different versions of what happened that evening. There were no arrests made. Right after they found the body, the Skakel home, Rushton, allowed the police officers to kind of come in and use his home as like a headquarters. And eventually, you know, they leave. They can't find any evidence. There are no arrests made. It isn't until years later that somebody who went to school with Michael, now Michael had been sent by his father to this boarding school called the Elan School, which is sort of like, if you can imagine, like the wilderness schools of Utah. It's sort of like the version out there, but where they like scream at you and they're beating you. And Michael now says at that school he was harassed and screamed at. One of his classmates claimed that he said that he, he basically confessed to the murder. Well, we now know that in a lot of these situations people say things under duress. And it was because of that there was eventually an arrest. Michael went to prison for 10 years and then there was a technicality. He eventually was released. His cousin Bobby was his advocate.

Podcast Host (12:03)

Wait, how. Sorry. Let's go clarify some things. So they never arrest anyone in this crime. The parents are just always wondering was before he allegedly told his classmate in the boarding school situation, which only would have been what, like a year after

Kate Casey (12:23)

her murder, A couple years after, but he didn't tell anybody. He. The confession he claimed was a couple years after, but it came years later. Now, Rushel, the father.

Podcast Host (12:33)

Wait, wait. Just a couple questions. So I just. So at that time though, did the neighborhood wonder, oh, it must be the Skakels. It must be one of those wild boys. Or did they think it was just a crazy like adult perpetrator that made it into their gated community? Were they ever, were they, were anyone ever suspicious of these teenage boys?

Kate Casey (12:56)

A lot of people were suspicious. They were also suspicious of the live in nanny. They all seemed to be peculiar in their behavior that evening. And the few Days after, however, there wasn't. There didn't seem to be any sufficient evidence. Now, in 1992, Rushton Skakel makes this poor decision. He hires this group called the Sutton Associates to do an investigation. And what the Sutton report from the Sutton Associates said was that it was most likely it was one of his sons that did it, and he wanted to clear his son's name and actually

Podcast Host (13:31)

clear the son's name. He was sick of them thinking it. At this point in 1992, had Michael. Had this confession that was made at the boarding school been revealed yet?

Kate Casey (13:45)

I don't think so. What really kind of brought it up to was the Sutton report, in conjunction to Dominic Dunn, convincing Mark Fuhrman, who, you know, was involved in the O.J. case, to write a book.

Podcast Host (13:57)

The detective. The detective.

Kate Casey (13:58)

The detective, Mark Fuhrman, he wrote a book on the Moxley case. And he went back and started to reinvestigate. And then these things started to bubble up. Well, one of these classmates said that Michael had confessed to it. And then Bobby Kennedy, his cousin, said, well, there seemed to have been reasons.

Podcast Host (14:14)

Bobby Kennedy, like rfk.

Kate Casey (14:16)

Rfk. He. Yes, he kind of put out there that it possibly were these two teenagers from the Bronx who may have come into the neighborhood, although the neighborhood is gated, so an outsider. And couple this with a local Police Department in 1975 that probably missed a multitude of things going back in time, into 1975, to go through every piece of evidence has been the struggle, I think, of every person that has investigated it. But there are a couple things that, in hindsight, looking back, that I think are notable and. And why this case right now is so interesting. And looking through the lens of 2026, I think is. Is most important. So when the police officers were trying to do an investigation, Rushton, the father, would not allow them to have access to his son Tommy's school and medical records. And when Tommy was three years old, he fell out of a car. I want you to go back in time.

Podcast Host (15:20)

Tommy is.

Kate Casey (15:20)

He's number. He's number three, but he's 17. So he's the oldest boy that was at the home at the time.

Podcast Host (15:26)

Okay.

Kate Casey (15:27)

Now, that son, when he was 3, fell out of a car. Think of 1970s wagons, no seat belts. That's the way it was. He had to go to the hospital for. And he was there for weeks because he had swelling in the brain. The mother, who's still alive at that point, is praying the rosary every day. And he survives. And everyone's like, it's A miracle. However, there are residual effects from that which included, according to his medical records that were not released to the press or to the police, he had bouts of rage that sometimes he would black out. And he had also been known to walk the neighborhood at night with a golf club.

Podcast Host (16:00)

Wow.

Kate Casey (16:01)

So then it starts to crack open the family and what's going on. And then Michael has said recently to Andrew Goldman, who I interviewed.

Podcast Host (16:10)

Wait, Michael was two years younger? Younger than Tommy?

Kate Casey (16:13)

Yes.

Podcast Host (16:14)

Okay. And that's the one that they did, they sent it? Yes, because this, because there was suspicion on the home. And because when he went to that boarding school, someone said, he told me years ago that he did it. So that's why they went for him. Okay.

Kate Casey (16:30)

And they also had changed their stories up. So this, you're gonna die on this one. So Tommy first says, I said goodbye to Martha and I went back into my house because I told her that I had a. I had an extra credit project for English on Abraham Lincoln and long cabins and I really wanted to tackle it. Well, he was a terrible student and the Brunswick school where he went to said there was no such project given or offered. So he had changed his story. Like years, years later they ask him again about his alibi and he says, oh, I did walk her back to like a little bit. And we laid on the ground, it was 40 degrees that night and we mutually masturbated next to each other. That's the last time I saw her. What 15 year old girl lays on the ground next to a guy, does that? And then Michael also changed his alibi. First he said, oh, I was in my brother's car, we went to drop off another cousin. Then he said that, you know, that, that he'd gone, gone, gone home to bed. Well, then he said at about 12:30, he had gone up towards Martha's house and climbed up a tree, trying to peek into the house. And then he masturbated in a tree. So you have these two brothers that have these weird stories and you just don't know what to believe. And you have an older brother who

Podcast Host (17:49)

your father masturbating in the tree. I never understood. I mean, I don't know what the tree is. Like, maybe there was a base. But I always like, imagine like you gotta be pretty, like balanced to be on a branch and whip out your dick and masturbate.

Kate Casey (18:01)

Well, he also said he had been drinking and because of it he couldn't get it up. So that's why masturbating was pretty hard while he was in the tree.

Podcast Host (18:09)

The 15 year old said this.

Kate Casey (18:11)

Yes. And it's also important to note that if you go went back in time and looked at a picture of these two brothers, the 15 year old is like a pipsqueak. He's like super short. He almost looks in pictures like a girl. And the 17 year old is taller and stronger. When you see pictures of Michael Skakel now, he's a larger person obviously, but he was quite small those days. And Martha also, Martha had a diary that, that they read during the trial and there's one entry where she says she was in a car with Tommy and was sitting on his lap and he was trying to fondle her. So he did have a history of.

Podcast Host (18:48)

Yeah, she was probably sitting on his lap because they probably had so many extra kids, you know, in the car.

Kate Casey (18:54)

Yeah.

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Podcast Host (22:12)

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Best of all, not only is every Mood product backed by a $100 day satisfaction guarantee, but as I mentioned, listeners get 20% off their first order with code Juicy Crimes. So head over to mood.com, find the functional gummy that matches exactly what you're looking for and let Mood help you discover your perfect mood. And don't forget to use promo code Juicycrimes when you check out to save 20% off your first order. Try it today@mood.com I always remember, and

Podcast Host (22:47)

maybe I just remember this wrong, but with the masturbating in the tree, wasn't it that they thought that he did that a lot because that tree looked into her bedroom or something?

Kate Casey (22:57)

Yes, yes. And also people wondered, well, by the way, there was no evidence of a sexual assault. I mean, there was no DNA, foreign DNA, but her pants were pulled down. But when I interviewed Andrew Goldman who did a podcast series about it. I said, isn't it possible with a dead body? It's a heavier. When they were dragging her under the tree to hide the body, maybe her pants had been pulled down a bit. I wondered if maybe that person who walked her home had tried to make out with her and she said no, and in a fit of rage hit her.

Podcast Host (23:29)

But how would that person get the golf club? Like he was carrying it must be the whole time.

Kate Casey (23:34)

He must have been carrying it the whole time. And it did it with such force that it broke into a couple pieces.

Podcast Host (23:40)

And I mean, did they check the

Sponsor Voice (23:42)

garage to see if.

Podcast Host (23:44)

Well, they.

Kate Casey (23:45)

Well, the thing is that specific golf club came from golf club like a set that were at the Skakel house. It was a specific kind of golf club and it was traced back to the Skakels. So it had to have been somebody in that house. But the question really is, did one brother get convicted and spend 10 years in prison when it may have been another brother? Because why did the father. And did he. Now, Michael says in this podcast series he was interviewed for, he said that he thinks that his father's attorney is the one that convinced his father to send him to boarding school. And did his father's attorney not like him because he had been telling his father, you know, your. I think your attorney is a bad guy. I think he's skimming money. Well, his father's an alcoholic. He's like running their company to the ground. Was he convinced? Maybe in a moment. Like, listen, this report says it's one of your sons. You gotta sacrifice one of them.

Podcast Host (24:42)

So when Michael was on in trial, which was. When was he. When was his trial? Did. When did his trial happen where he got convicted?

Kate Casey (24:51)

So what's. It was like over a period of time. And what. So he was convicted. In 2002, he was sentenced to 20 years in life. But the conviction was vacated in 2018 by the Connecticut Supreme Court. They ruled his original attorney, he. Sherman. And I think you can go back in time and remember the guy was like a real showboat. Total inept attorney. And he failed to identify an ALIBI witness. In 2020, the Connecticut prosecutors declined to retry him. So the case is still unsolved.

Podcast Host (25:20)

And then he got to get out and. But during the trial, was Tommy, that brother, like, still alive? Was he showing up in court? Was he supporting him?

Kate Casey (25:30)

He came back on one day for, you know, for, for as a witness. But I did ask the, the gentleman who, who interviewed Michael and did the series and what's the situation with this family. Did he speak to Tommy? He's totally estranged from everybody. In fairness, yes. The whole family's a mess. Like, remember the grandfather, we're talking crazy money. There's no money left. None of them have any money. So their own father basically took over the company. And all of the money has gone to either the trial or been spent or squandered. And you have this fractured family now, but it makes me constantly go back to that night. And you have these two families, this one that's moved from California and they're like a nice warm family. And then the one around the corner with proximity to power to the big. One of the biggest political dynasties of the United States, and they're a mess. And the mother's dead and the father's an alcoholic. It was the kind of dad who would show up to the soccer games, if he even showed up with, you know, with a drink. And also in the 70s, particularly in this neighborhood, there was a lot of entertaining. So even the kids are kind of drinking because the parents aren't paying attention. And in this particular family, while the Moxleys were hands on, Rushton would just have the kids eat with the help with like the nanny or whomever, you know, what adult was there at the house. He was completely disconnected from his children.

Podcast Host (26:57)

Wow. Now, okay, so now tell me what you think happened. What's your theory?

Kate Casey (27:03)

I think one of the brothers did. Sounds like it. Probably Tommy. I don't think it was Michael. I don't think. I think Michael went to prison for something he didn't do. And I think it's more likely one of the others did it. And I unfortunately, I think this is a family with a lot of secrets. And they may be aware of what happened, but in some way they were all covering for each other.

Podcast Host (27:26)

What if they did it together?

Kate Casey (27:27)

Possible. Totally possible.

Podcast Host (27:29)

And then Michael was like, well, I'm gonna, you know, claim I'm innocent, but I'm not gonna also say I did it with my brother. It doesn't behoove his. Doesn't make his sentence any less so. I kind of think that the brother who was walking around the neighborhood, Tommy with the, with the golf club and the. And. But I do think Michael had something to do with it. And so I kind of think maybe they did it together. You know, like they were menaces, they were weird. They were like, let's try.

Kate Casey (27:58)

Well, the interesting thing that you just for you to say that, because I did a two part episode and the minute I, I published the first episode, I start getting these dms and I got a DM from someone who said, my grandmother knew this family very well. And they talked about how the washing machine was running that night. Like there, there. It seems there was. There were people that were eating in some sort of COVID up. And it could have been, oh my God, we're all going to go down. I don't want dad to be mad at us. Like, there were so many things that are questionable about that night. But I guess the thing that makes me most sad is that everybody forgets about the victim. Like in the end of it, it's a girl who probably was just walking home to her house, you know, to meet curfew. And because she didn't make out with somebody, she got killed.

Podcast Host (28:49)

Yeah. I feel like what I think happened is that she was walking home or

Sponsor Voice (28:54)

they were hanging out or they saw

Podcast Host (28:55)

her or something and they're like, they're like, we're going to walk with you or whatever.

Kate Casey (28:59)

And.

Podcast Host (29:00)

And they. Someone made a move or something or she said something like, I'm gonna tell. I'm gonna say that you did this. Or maybe there was something that they did to someone else that she knew the secret of and she was like, I'm gonna ruin your life. Something like that. And then one of them had the golf club and they swung it first and then they kind of like maybe finished her off or did it together. And then it was like, yeah, we are gonna. We need to cover this up. We need to pull her. We need to cover up. We need to clean our clothes. We gonna act like we don't know what happened, but most likely, you know, they do confess. There's a documentary out right now on Netflix. I have not finished it, but it's out of Scotland. And this girl is successful.

Kate Casey (29:48)

Should I marry a murderer?

Podcast Host (29:49)

Yeah. And so she is dating this guy. She's like, she's like a pathologist or something. She meets this guy on Tinder. He is like a farmer and like kills deer and like cuts it up or whatever. And they. He's a boozer, but she likes him. And they. He's like, I'd like to get married to you, but I need to tell you something. And he says that he and his friend were drunk and driving home and there was this guy who was riding a bike and he was doing this. He was an older guy, but he was doing some like, merit, like, like, I'm gonna ride all across the country. So he would ride at night on dark streets. He shouldn't have been Doing that, it probably wasn't lit. But they were also drunk and they hit him and they realized he was dead. And they're like, we can't call the police, our lives will be ruined. We'll lose the farm, we'll go to prison. Like, da, da, da. So they go and they bury him. And the family just said he went missing, like they never knew where he went. And, and that's where I am in it. I haven't finished. But he had just told the woman his fiance, and she's the one telling the story. And I do think there's something so interesting in committing a crime with just one other person.

Kate Casey (31:02)

Yeah. Like a Robert Wong case in dc. Remember the guy that there wasn't any blood and he was stabbed, but it was weird. And the two guys showed up at the door with the robe, right.

Podcast Host (31:12)

He went in and his two gay friends, but they were all friends and

Sponsor Voice (31:16)

he had a wife.

Podcast Host (31:17)

And yeah, they found him and his body was like washed, but he had stabs, you know, stabbing in his chest and that. Yeah, we've done a juicy crime on it too. That's so weird. But like, but that was with, yeah, two other guys, right? It wasn't three other guys. So I do think there's something about two people and that they're both.

Kate Casey (31:39)

Or maybe he, maybe he, one of them committed the crime, went back home with blood all over and, and said, you need to help me out.

Podcast Host (31:49)

Right.

Kate Casey (31:49)

And so the person, the other person doesn't know actually what happened and was like, I'll never ask you.

Podcast Host (31:55)

Right.

Kate Casey (31:55)

But, and, and, but then freaked out was like, you know, a 15 and a 17 year old mindset in 1975, you know, what do you think?

Podcast Host (32:03)

Also like the, and brothers and, and being motherless and being, being raised by an alcoholic and just, you know, and, and again, I do believe that Michael was involved in some capacity. Either he did the whole thing himself and Tommy had nothing to do it, or they kind of did it together, but he was the one that was dumb enough. Like Eric, Eric Menendez was to tell the therapist. No, Lyle told, Lyle told the therapist again, two brothers that committed a crime. And Lyle was like, you're such a fucking idiot. I do believe that if Eric didn't tell the therapist that they had killed their parents, I don't know that they would have figured it out because I mean, in everything I've seen, they, they were like, they're really not, they were not really looking at them. They still thought it could have been this like mafia hit, something to do with the fact that the dad was Mexican or rich or the, you know, the music industry, whatever. So it's like I do think there's something about like two brothers doing something.

Sponsor Voice (33:10)

I think that's what happened.

Podcast Host (33:11)

I definitely think that's what happened.

Kate Casey (33:12)

And then to see they had all the power and privilege and how the family unraveled after that, I think the story really kind of lives in October 30, 1975. All the moving parts of the story, those two different families, whatever happened, this family was never the same and they were completely fractured because of it.

Podcast Host (33:34)

Yeah. God.

Sponsor Voice (33:35)

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Kate Casey (35:11)

When I have a crush on a guy no one knows.

Movie Trailer Voice (35:14)

Be careful. I wish Nikki love me more than anyone in the entire world. Who you wish for obsession is 96 fresh on rotten tomatoes. Tomatoes.

Kate Casey (35:24)

I love you so so so so much.

Movie Trailer Voice (35:27)

It's blood soaked nightmare fuel.

Podcast Host (35:29)

Brooke I suppose you put on her.

Movie Trailer Voice (35:31)

You have been warned. Obsession Rated R under 17. Animated without parent. Only in theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby.

Podcast Host (35:38)

Well now by the way, what about

Kate Casey (35:41)

all of the kids of that neighborhood? What about her classmates? Like your 15 year old friend gets murdered. Would you would never want your kids to go outside at night? Like the idea of somebody wouldn't want

Podcast Host (35:52)

like what, like did the. Tommy that was October. Tommy was a junior or senior. Did he go to prom? Did he ever have a date? Were people like stay away from him or was it because they were like the fun house and you just, or you want to think that it's some crazy van that came in the neighborhood. But then wouldn't that make you more scared? Like, I mean also it's the 70s, so a lot of things were, you know, brushed under the rug and no therapy and okay, like let's just move on.

Kate Casey (36:20)

Just move in, right?

Podcast Host (36:21)

Shut the door. It's none of our business, you know, that type of thing.

Kate Casey (36:24)

Right.

Podcast Host (36:25)

I'm just like visually seeing it because it reminds me of my cousins, the Carries who were around. They were older than our family and friends, very close to the, to the Kennedys and it was, they would go to the boarding schools. They, you know, knew them and like knew those type of families. Those like big Irish Catholic families that had a few bucks, had some bucks, were up and coming, you know, or upper middle class and starting to like really shape that part of the country. And it's, it's crazy. Very weird. Okay, then I also want to talk about Chandra Levy. I saw that, that just popped up recently. Someone wrote an article about it. That story was so crazy.

Kate Casey (37:12)

I was in D.C. when that happened actually.

Podcast Host (37:13)

You want to just introduce.

Kate Casey (37:15)

Well, there was, it was weird too because when, when I was there. So she was an intern. I had just been an intern as well. And she, first of all, she did, she disappeared for a while. We didn't know where she was. And on the heels of that there was another girl that disappeared named Joyce and Joyce Chang, I believe. And she had disappeared as well. And somebody had written her name in Dupont Circle, like on a, on something. She just disappeared. And her wallet was found by the Anacostia river, which was like a really bad area of town. So it was just like these two girls that sort of disappeared at that time. It made you freak out. Like we would not want to go out to bars at night unless we were in a pack because you just like had no idea what was going on. Then if you remember, it's revealed that Chandra, who's disappeared had been in a relationship with a congressman from California by the name of Gary Condon. And then they start Interviewing Gary Condon. And he's a complete weirdo. He's married to.

Podcast Host (38:13)

When she goes missing. When she goes missing.

Kate Casey (38:16)

Yes. And the wife was, like, very pageant, like, robotic. And he had these two adult children. And remember, they kept calling him Gary. This is just bizarre. Like, why would you call your parents by their first name? And he was very secretive. And Connie Chung did this interview with him, and she was probing him on his relationship with her because it was. It was strange. They had a relationship, but he wouldn't completely agree, admit to it.

Podcast Host (38:39)

But the.

Kate Casey (38:40)

The apartment building in which she lived there, there were cameras, but they were covered. The day that she disappeared, she left behind, I think, her keys or something. And then eventually her body was found in Rock Creek park, which is not great area, and certainly wasn't back when I was there. And her leggings were, like, tied around her, like she was strangled. It was terrifying.

Podcast Host (39:06)

What I remember was, you know, we see this girl, and she's got this curly black hair. She's white. She's Jewish, I believe, and young. And, you know, there's just this photo of her, like, in her, like. Like, you know, jeans at the time that were in that they would show all the time. And I want to say they were looking at him, the Congressman, because she either worked for him, but then there looked to be that affair. But then something else happened that totally distracted from his possible connection to it. Do you remember what that distraction was?

Kate Casey (39:43)

Well, first of all, they. September 11th happened. So he was like every. The pressure was. The pressure was on him. What happened? What happened? What happened? And that September 11th happened. And then, like. And then it just, like, disappeared.

Podcast Host (39:56)

No, I talked about realizing September 11, but that was it. Yeah. And so then he was kind of. Yeah, they. They put their resources towards everything else, and he was really not. But he was always sort of suspicious. And how many years after was she found? It was like a year later.

Kate Casey (40:13)

Yeah, I think it was like two years later. Now, defense attorneys, this was important. They sought to introduce testimony from other women alleging that Gary Connaught had a sexual interest in bondage and rough sex. And so, given that there were knotted tights next to her skeletal remains, there were questions about maybe if he had done something, but that never reached a jury. And then he lost his congressional seat a year later and never was charged, which is bizarre. Okay, so then there's the Salvadorian immigrant. He attacked two other women at knifepoint in that same park about a year later, July of 2001. This was just weeks before and after her disappearance.

Podcast Host (40:56)

But he didn't kill those girls.

Kate Casey (40:58)

Well, he missed work the day that she vanished, and his face was reportedly scratched and bruised around that time. So the Metro Police Department initially dismissed a tip about him in 2001 because everybody was obsessed with Gary Condit. Like, he must have been involved. After a 2008 Washington Washington Post investig investigative series, they reopened the case. And that immigrant was convicted in November of 2010. So we're talking 10 or nine years later. And it was based on jailhouse. A jailhouse informant, another informant named Armano Morales. And he was sentenced to 60 years, however, in 2015. So five years later, he was granted a new trial after it emerged that that informant had hidden the history of cooperating with law enforcement. So of course, like, maybe he's just making deals to get himself, you know, making up stories. A woman named Babs Proler came forward claiming that he had told her that he lied. And then In July of 2016, prosecutors dropped all charges against him, citing unforeseen developments. They said they could no longer prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. And then he was deported back to el Salvador in 2017. So the case actually still remains unsolved. And Dominic Dunn, who had covered the Martha Moxley case and O.J. simpson, he was really after Gary Condon. And he would kept writing all of these columns where he was meeting people that knew Gary Condon. And it just, it seemed very suspicious how he was unwilling to give any information about what his relationship was with Chandra. And her parents would say she was being very strange in the. In, you know, in the time before she disappeared. She was being very cagey about this person that she was dating. So I remember at one time, Dominic had written a column saying that he had heard that she. Her body was like dropped from a plane. Of course, now we know that her body was found in Rock Creek Park. So I think that was kind of like, I would say the. The moment I remember where people became so obsessed with true crime conspiracies, I feel like that was kind of the liftoff period. But these are two cases that still remain unsolved. And they have been an obsession of people because they were young women and they were in proximity to power and privilege.

Podcast Host (43:18)

Well, and it was also just like she was a dark haired.

Kate Casey (43:23)

And it was around the time of Monica Lewinsky, which, remember a few years

Podcast Host (43:28)

in intern, but not too many years after.

Kate Casey (43:32)

So it was right around then. Yeah. And so it's a time we were where we were like, what the hell is going on with Interns in Washington. And do you remember there was a Vanity Fair piece where this girl came forward and said, I think she even identified herself? Which I have to go back and find the article. But she talked about how young women were sleeping with politicians to get opportunities. So it was just a point of time where everyone was obsessed with, like, what is going on in Washington. So when this girl disappears and this congressman is being very cagey, it was just a crazy time.

Podcast Host (44:08)

So. But she didn't, like, work for him or anything?

Kate Casey (44:12)

She worked for. No, she worked for the Bureau of Prisons, but she was tech. Like an intern, Right.

Podcast Host (44:16)

Well, same thing with, you know, Monica. She wasn't working directly for the president, but she, like, weaseled her way into being able to see him and work and, like, have things that she was dropping off and all of that. And I wonder if that. That almost sparked a little bit more of, like, a hot kind of fantasy that, you know, girls, when given a little bit of a flirt, would, like, be like, this is kind of hot. I'm gonna flirt back. And I'm not worried if this guy is older or married or whatever.

Kate Casey (44:50)

Like, I remember 22, I was an intern at the White House right as the Monica Lewinsky story starts to unravel. And I remember thinking at the time, there is no way that that could have happened because I had to have a special badge, and you have to go through the security clearance process. And I just felt like there are people always around. And then I realized, you know, as you get older that you really don't. When you're that young, you're really naive to power and what people can do to cover up things when they need to. And that, I think, is the scariest part of all.

Podcast Host (45:23)

Remember, like, you know, there's been with Monica Lewinsky, like, Secret Servicemen and the secretary all were like, oh, my God, like, she's got, you know, to stop coming by. And then when they kind of were trying to get her to, you know, get. You remember he was trying to get her that job with Revlon with.

Kate Casey (45:42)

Yes, Vernon.

Podcast Host (45:44)

Her name was Vernon. There were, like, letters.

Kate Casey (45:46)

Vernon Jordan.

Podcast Host (45:47)

Yeah. He knew somebody at Revlon. So wouldn't that be a fun job for you to work for Revlon? She's like, sure. He was like, okay, let me get her over there. Let me get my mistress over there.

Kate Casey (45:56)

Let me get her right here.

Podcast Host (45:58)

Yeah. And then. And we'll end this. But, yeah, it's so. Yeah. That story is just so fascinating and how she was treated. I always said, like, you know, like, 15 years ago I was like, oh my God, if this had happened 15 years ago it would have been. And especially now, but even 15 years ago it would have been a completely different story. She would have, you know, really, it been a seen as innocent, but also used it to her advantage to skyrocket. But, you know, Monica did. Monica ended up hosting a dating show.

Kate Casey (46:34)

She's done really well.

Podcast Host (46:36)

She hosted a dating show that was in the line of the Bachelorette, where it was guys with like masks on their face or something.

Kate Casey (46:45)

That's right.

Podcast Host (46:46)

And she was the host of it.

Kate Casey (46:48)

And I'm like, then she went. And then she went to the London School of Economics, got an advanced degree, did a really popular TED talk, has become this advocate now. And, and I think she's really taken what has been an awful life experience and you know, rewritten her own narrative, which I respect immensely.

Podcast Host (47:10)

You know, and I always, you know, when they were showing Clinton like looking at those photos from the Epstein files, and then his attorney was like, all right, you know, and he was like, hold on, hold on, like, let me. And he's smiling and like menacing about like pool parties or whatever at Epstein or some hotel. And you know, now he's old, he's like 80 and he like, you know, is a little frail and everything. And it's like, yeah, this is. What if they had it up together? She is, you know, 53 or something, but she has a much more youthful way about her, probably because she never had kids and she's not exhausted and she looks great. And I'm like, what if like, you know, he wasn't the president and she was the hotel hot secretary who married the older guy. And you know, probably the first 10 years it would probably be hot and fun and great. And now she's with like a dirty old 80 year old man who, you

Kate Casey (48:08)

know, I feel like there have been so many situations where over, like the, the last decade you've said, okay, they think this is going to work out right now. Like, what's an age gap? And you're always like, like, yeah, there's gonna come a time where he's like, I just want to have like, I want to have a TV dinner and watch TV and. And you're like, no, I want to go out with my girlfriends.

Podcast Host (48:28)

Yeah, like the scuffle, like just the scuffling feet, you know, and it's just like, she's just probably like, oh my God. And I don't know, I've always be fascinated by it. I do think it's Crazy. You know, when they also. When we talked about JFK Jr and all those old clips came up, were out where he was also making fun of her, like on the Tonight show or whatever, talking about George and then mentioning that, you know, Monica Lewinsky. He made some joke that, oh, when she was. He's like, oh, yeah, they. Here's a project that Monica. Monica Lewinsky did.

Sponsor Voice (49:04)

I can't remember.

Podcast Host (49:05)

It was something like a little kid project, but there was some sexual innuendo. And he was like, oh, you know, haha. Some things never change. And I'm just like, God, you know,

Kate Casey (49:14)

jfk, Men in power. Yeah, men in power. Gross.

Podcast Host (49:18)

Really? When you're. When your dad was, you know, had blatant affairs and like people didn't want to remember that or believe that about. That's another thing with two brothers. Very weird. When a woman brothers. Oh, Marilyn slept with John F. Kennedy first and then Bobby and then was really into Bobby.

Kate Casey (49:39)

I think she was really into Poppy.

Sponsor Voice (49:40)

Yeah. I.

Podcast Host (49:41)

And it was weird because there was like a sister of Bobby that was kind of starstruck by Marilyn. And it was in one of the books. There was like even correspondence or something that this person did where the sister of Bobby was like. Would talk to her and be like, Bobby's so into you. He really likes you. It's like he has eight kids with Ethel. I know Ethel, whose brother's kids will be possible murderers. Like, this is before this. But like, oh my God. It's just. It's like. Yeah. I always think that is so weird. You know, speaking of housewives, we're watching Real Housewives of Rhode island and that girl Jo Ellen.

Kate Casey (50:25)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (50:26)

Is dating the. Is married to the guy that was her sister's like, high school boyfriend. Like, brought him home, took him to prom, all that stuff. And then she went for him. And then, you know, then the unmarried sister comes over to help babysit.

Kate Casey (50:40)

I.

Podcast Host (50:40)

What I need to know is, did they like, if he took this sister.

Kate Casey (50:44)

Yeah, right.

Podcast Host (50:45)

Virginity. And they actually had sex, even if it was bad juvenile sex. And then they broke up, she went off, you know, whatever. And then when he was a senior, he started dating Joellen. And then I. I don't know if they, they. They just dated a little bit then and then got back together later. Like, did she date? I. I don't know.

Kate Casey (51:04)

Yeah. So her sister never married or. And Jo Ellen was, I think married before. So this was like so in life.

Podcast Host (51:11)

Like she came hook up.

Kate Casey (51:13)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it was. Okay.

Podcast Host (51:14)

So she came back, met as adults, Right.

Kate Casey (51:18)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (51:18)

That's not that insane.

Kate Casey (51:20)

Right. Especially because it seems like they all know each other there, so.

Sponsor Voice (51:24)

Yeah.

Kate Casey (51:24)

But.

Podcast Host (51:25)

But I do think if there was sex involved, that's still kind of weird.

Kate Casey (51:28)

Really weird. Yeah.

Podcast Host (51:30)

Yeah. My God.

Kate Casey (51:31)

Well, the last person that's most attractive is the person that's with your sibling. You know what I mean? Growing. Gross.

Podcast Host (51:37)

I know.

Kate Casey (51:38)

That's a boner killer right there.

Podcast Host (51:40)

That is so weird. I can't imagine.

Kate Casey (51:43)

But you know, some. Some families, they may have weird competition dynamics.

Podcast Host (51:46)

Yeah.

Kate Casey (51:47)

Set up.

Sponsor Voice (51:49)

I mean, I always die over a

Podcast Host (51:51)

story about where the mother sleeps with her son in law.

Kate Casey (51:55)

Yeah. Weird.

Podcast Host (51:56)

There was this crazy podcast story that I heard. I can't even remember what the. What the crime. What the story was. But. But it was like he was like a con man.

Sponsor Voice (52:05)

I don't know what he did.

Podcast Host (52:06)

He did something wrong.

Sponsor Voice (52:07)

No, I know what it is.

Podcast Host (52:08)

He. He. Okay, this is what the. The guy eventually went on trial for killing his wife. Okay.

Kate Casey (52:16)

Oh.

Podcast Host (52:17)

But he did it some sneaky way so they thought she like died of like, I don't know, you know, like a heart attack or something. And then he manipulated the mother who was currently married to her husband, who was the dad of the daughter that died. He was. He used religion and he was like, I'm just so sad about my wife dying. Your daughter dying. That, you know, I just. I just feel like I want to get closer to you and I just. I don't. You know. And they start fucking weird. The mother starts sleeping with her son in law. Cheating on her husband as a way to. Because she, you know, she's mourning and he's mourning. They're grieving and somehow they have Brittany Murphy.

Kate Casey (53:03)

Remember Brittany Murphy? Her. Her mom would like sleep with her ex husband after she died.

Podcast Host (53:08)

That's right after she died in that house. And we still don't know what she died from. The actress Brittany Murphy. The husband who was a bit older than her. Then the mother moved in and then they became a couple and then he died weirdly of like some, like. Like some mold. That house needs to be molded or something. Yeah. So weird. Well, I know you have to go. Kate. You always do such great interesting things. You let you know what to watch, what's up. Do everything from fun Bravo stuff to really interesting documentaries and, and cases that you find tell everybody where they can listen to more Kate Casey.

Kate Casey (53:50)

So reality Life with Kate Casey. The two Martha Moxley episodes ran the this last week. So go back and listen to those. You can get my what's watch list@Kate casey.substack.com Facebook group I'm on social media. You can find me.

Podcast Host (54:04)

Well, thank you. I know you're probably off to go to some, well, lacrosse events. Competition, dancing, swimming, basketball. Just all of it. And your kids are so cute, too.

Kate Casey (54:18)

Oh, thank you.

Podcast Host (54:19)

Thank you. All right. Love you, girl.

Kate Casey (54:20)

Love you. Okay.

Podcast Host (54:21)

And I was excited to see that you are going to the Newport. You posted that you're going to that Newport festival where Andy gets an award.

Kate Casey (54:30)

Yes.

Podcast Host (54:30)

And yes. Andy should let you interview him. You absolutely deserve it. So I saw your.

Kate Casey (54:36)

Let's see. I tried to shoot my shot. Let's see.

Podcast Host (54:39)

You shot it out. Spread the word. We'd love to get her Andy interview.

Kate Casey (54:45)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (54:45)

Bye.

Kate Casey (54:46)

Bye.

Podcast Host (54:46)

Thank you,

Kate Casey (54:50)

Sam.