Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald

Episode: The Ultimate Female Grifter With Jami Rice
Date: October 8, 2025
Guest: Jami Rice (Host of Murderish and Dirty Money Moves)
Host: Heather McDonald
Podcast Theme: Lighter side of true crime, focusing on the greed, the grift, and the juiciest crimes.

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the fascinating world of female grifters and white-collar crime, with guest Jami Rice recounting her personal connection to a $15 million bank heist perpetrated by faux heiress Mary Carol McDonald. The discussion weaves comedy, true crime analysis, and industry-insider anecdotes, culminating in a deep dive into one of Los Angeles’ wildest financial con artists. Along the way, the conversation touches on jury duty, infamous cases like Karen Read’s, and the psychology of scams.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heather and Jami’s Origin Story

• [00:27-02:43]
  The episode opens with Heather reminiscing about meeting Jami through her audience after Jami served as a juror on a murder trial. Their friendship flourished over shared interests and events.
  • Memorable Moment: Jami talks about writing a rap for Heather while drunk on a podcast trip.
  • Quote – Jami: “I write raps for all the people I love, but... they’re not good.” (02:32)

2. Inside the Mind of True Crime Fans

• Discussion about why women love true crime, with jokes about why women are fascinated by male murderers:
  • Quote – Heather: “The reason women are so obsessed with men who murder is because it’s the one time they plan, follow through and clean up the floor after.” (03:34)

3. Jami’s Jury Duty: Murder Case Details

• [06:41-14:44]
  Jami details her role as jury foreperson for a high-profile local murder trial involving Robert Arvizu, who killed his wife. She discusses the evidence, jury deliberations, and unique perspectives on how true crime is experienced differently as a juror.
  • The emotional challenge of compartmentalizing empathy for victims’ families.
  • Insight into how quickly the jury moved to assault and murder convictions.
  • The difference between first and second-degree murder and the dynamics of group decision making.
  • Quote – Jami: "Premeditation can happen in seconds, minutes, weeks, or months... The average everyday human being, if you think your husband's cheating, you're not going to go murder him." (14:44-16:22)
  • Memorable Note: Heather references quirky juror personalities – “He reminds me of my dad...” (12:49)

4. True Crime Cases in the Media: The Karen Read Trial

• [18:47-35:59]
  The hosts break down the controversial Karen Read case, examining why the first jury failed to return a guilty verdict, the impact of botched investigations, and how gender and lived experience shape interpretations of behavior in criminal cases.
  • Jami's strong belief in Read’s innocence due to lack of evidence tying her to the crime.
  • Dissection of public perception, police corruption, and media spin.
  • The complexity of family responses, even when new evidence emerges.
  • Quote – Jami: "This case absolutely should be studied in every law school from here forward... It's a corrupt law enforcement, in my opinion, corrupt DA's office...” (34:32)

5. Pivot to Financial Crime: The Mary Carol McDonald “Heiress” Scam

• [37:18-79:20]
  The episode’s main feature: a real-life, inside perspective on the $15 million bank fraud by Mary Carol McDonald, as experienced by Jami in her former career as a commercial banker.

a. The Set-up and Execution

• Mary Carol poses as an heiress to the McDonnell Douglas fortune and CEO of a true crime TV company.
• Referred by flashy Beverly Hills attorney Barry Rothman, who vouches for her (and ultimately gets implicated).
• Jami recalls oddities, like Mary Carol bringing homemade pies to the bank office ("the bitch looks rich"), but nothing that tipped off the large-scale fraud. (43:31)
• Mary Carol gets approved for a $15M loan on the basis of fabricated financial statements and a fake $28M collateral account.
  • Quote – Jami: “She drew down on that thing I want to say to the tune of like $14.3 million. Damn near all of it in... days.” (44:52)

b. The Discovery & Fallout

• The fraud is uncovered when the “collateral” investment account is revealed to be nonexistent.
• Colleagues are placed on administrative leave, FBI gets involved; Jami leaves the bank for her husband’s business.
  • Memorable Moment: The team wonders if Mary Carol killed a mysterious brother, spinning further true crime theories. (50:51)
• Barry Rothman, the attorney, dies suddenly during the investigation, heightening suspicions but determined to be unrelated.

c. Mary Carol’s Broader Grifting Career

• Investigation for Jami’s docu-podcast reveals Mary Carol isn’t an heiress, but a midwesterner whose tragic family story (a sister killed as a child) was spun into a more “marketable” Hollywood tragedy.
• Mary Carol had a long pattern of financial frauds, often targeting friends and wealthy contacts with schemes involving "gifting programs" and fake investment returns.
  • Quote – Jami: "She even wrecked her own sons for a time, financially… She is so prolific that… we calculated it to be about $50 million in scams that we could count." (75:57-79:20)

d. Where is Mary Carol Now?

• Fled the U.S. for Dubai with her eye doctor (third) husband, living in exile and reportedly still grifting.
• Seven federal indictments and lawsuits remain outstanding, but she’s untouchable for now.
  • Quote – Jami: “She is in Dubai as we speak, that I know of. On the run, has never come to face her seven federal charges.” (75:31-75:57)

e. Celebrity-Tied Side Story: Michael Jackson Allegations

• In the course of investigating Rothman, Jami finds he was previously involved in the first child abuse claims against Michael Jackson, representing the dentist-father of accuser Jordy Chandler.
  • Quote – Jami: “Barry Rothman and this dentist dad and Jordy are the first people who actually brought child abuse charges against Michael Jackson.” (67:56-69:35)
• A web of extortion, insurance payouts, and ruined lives is briefly summarized, with Rothman getting nothing from the settlement.

6. Final Reflections & Jami’s True Crime Podcasting Journey

• Jami leveraged her deep-dive investigation for her podcast series Dirty Money Moves: Women in White Collar Crime.
  • Suggests her podcast for the full, multi-episode hair-raising story.
• Heather expresses awe at the scale and success of Jami’s investigative work and the sheer gall of the crime’s execution.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Dateline fascination:
  “I was like, the first person to… interview them that's from our demographic of women who love true crime and why.” — Heather (03:49)
• Jami’s summary of grifter psychology:
  “She was always trying to escape her Midwest past. She really wasn't as substantial and wealthy as she always wanted people to believe.” (58:22)
• On covering up and surviving as a scammer:
  “They know at a certain point they have to pay some of the money back... just to take the heat off so she could continue scamming in the future.” (61:37)
• On family complicity and credulity:
  “She even forged her twin sons' signature on fake documents... So she even wrecked her own sons for a time like financially.” (75:57)
• On the juiciness and Hollywood factor:
  "How is it that Bravo didn’t hire her for the Real Housewives of Dubai?" — Heather (75:31)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & how Jami and Heather met: [00:27-02:43]
• Jami's murder trial as juror: [06:41-18:47]
• Karen Read case breakdown: [18:47-35:59]
• Shift to white collar financial crimes: [37:18 onward]
  • Intro to Mary Carol & setup: [37:18-44:54]
  • Discovery and aftermath: [45:15-53:30]
  • Jami’s investigation and podcasting career: [53:40-79:20]
  • Discussion of Michael Jackson allegations: [67:45-73:22]
  • Details on Rothman, exile in Dubai, fallout: [74:05-80:33]
• Wrap-up, where to listen: [79:45-80:47]

Where to Learn More

• Dirty Money Moves: Women in White Collar Crime — Deep dive into Mary Carol McDonald’s Hollywood Heist story (Season 1), available on all platforms.
• Murderish — Jami’s main true crime podcast, weekly episodes on Mondays.
• Follow Jami: @Jamionair on all platforms.

Summary Tone & Vibe

• Lively, irreverent, and a little gossipy — mixing true crime intrigue with pop culture and personal anecdotes.
• Heather and Jami balance the gravity of the crimes with humor and insider commentary, aiming to entertain as much as inform.
• For true crime fans who love both a juicy scam and a lighter, more conversational approach — this episode delivers.