Unknown (4:44)

All right, let's talk about how Amazon prime makes everything better. You know, the moment you're binge watching different things and you realize that prime has more to offer than expected. Amazon prime isn't just fast delivery, though, let's be honest. Getting snacks or a last minute prop delivered the same day is a lifesaver. It's also Amazon music to vibe to and all the things that make life more interesting. Right? Ban. Whether streaming a stand up special, building the perfect playlist for the next show, or. Or getting new gear delivered fast, prime helps make it all happen and maybe even delivers a few laughs along the way. So whether comedy, drama or just the perfect new joke book is the vibe. Remember, prime is there for it. I do it all on Prime. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into Amazon do.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (5:46)

On WhatsApp. No one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friend and your family.

Heather McDonald (6:09)

No one else, not even us.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (6:12)

WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

Heather McDonald (6:16)

Big Bravo news. Rachel Zoe of the Rachel Zoe Project of the Rachel Zoe Light lifestyle line has made the announcement. It is 100% true. She has joined the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I talked about this on my Patreon, which came out Friday, but I record on a Thursday that I had heard this and it is true and everybody is thrilled. I don't think there's, I don't think I saw one comment that was negative. And she has since gone on her Instagram to say how pleased she is with the response, how much it means to her. She always said she would come back to TV when it felt right. It's totally right. I mean, her kids are older, she got divorced. So we're going to see her dating and see her life a little bit. I don't know what's going on with actual, like her brands, but obviously she's very successful. I know there was a time where she had one of those, remember FabFitFun boxes? I, I remember I promoted them and it would be like all these like, products and then you'd get them and oh, you get four year and whatever. She did something like that. I know she had that thing. I know she had a podcast with her husband because I interviewed her. Obviously that pod. I think she still has a podcast, but it's obviously not with a husband. And so I'm very intrigued. Like they were college sweethearts. Just a few years ago when I interviewed the two, it was her. No, maybe it was just her. And she talked about him. I can't remember if he came on or not, but it really seemed like they had such a great partnership and everything. But, you know, some marriages don't last forever. Still very successful union and I wonder if it's friendly. I wonder if he has another girlfriend or partner or whatever. But that will be fun to see. Some people wonder how Is she going to work with Dorit, being that Dorit is known as the fashionista and everything. And I think that it's going to be just great. Like, I think Dorit will be so excited to meet her, and I think she'll be kissing her ass, and then Bose will feel left out, and it's going to be good. So we'll see who else, if there's anybody else that's going to be announced. Bryn from Real Housewives of New York made a big announcement today. I'm not coming back. Well, I don't think the show is coming. We didn't think the show was coming back, or at least they're gonna start with a fresh slate. We don't know. But it was kind of smart of her just to be like, I know I'm not being asked back, so let me take this moment and get some press out of not coming back. And the second part of her statement on Instagram story was, but I created this dating app and it's doing so well. I have to bounce between my London and New York offices. It's going to be the greatest date. It's the greatest dating app ever. And I have my book coming out, so be excited for that. So I thought it was pretty nice. And I want to say, Bryn, come on, Juicy scoop. Because now that you don't have the Bravo golden handcuffs, I want to get more and know a little bit more about what you were thinking when people were saying things about you that weren't true. What all went down last season, which got weird and dark, or we don't have to talk about that, I don't know. But I find, yes, she. I can see why the audience didn't necessarily like her. But I have to say, you know, it must be. It is very hard for someone to be a real Housewife, because when people say, you know, you're not doing a good job or we don't want you here anymore, it's not because you fumbled the football. It's because we hate your personality. Like, you can't really change your personality. It really is you. So whether she chose to do this on her own or was just being savvy, you know, she wasn't really well liked at the end. People didn't like her, though they did like her in the beginning. And I just think that is a lot for your mental health because it's like you just feel like everyone hates you and there's. It's like, this is you. I'm being me. I'm not playing a Role. I'm not executing a design for a home or something. This isn't hgtv. It's just me being me, walking around talking to people. And you guys all find me annoying. So goodbye. Brit goes by Brit. Unreal. Housewives of New York. Sorry. Real Housewives of Atlanta is suing Bravo for $20 million. This is the woman who is behind, really one of the most horrific things that have happened on Real Housewives of Atlanta. This girl. Britt and Kenya Moore were getting a little tiff. It seemed a little weird. It did seem like Brit was trying to engage with the big dog. And the big dog being Kenya was like, why are you trying to get your moment on tv? Somehow that really pissed off Kenya. She also felt threatened because she heard Britt say, like, I'm packing, meaning I carry a gun or something. So then when Kenya had her big Kenya Moore Hair Care, the first brick and mortar store that's kind of like a hair care center or whatever, that she wanted to make it like a blow dry bar. Eventually she decides to have this party. Brit comes, gives her some flowers. She's like, just please leave. I don't like you. And she's like, okay. And then she's like, my. I've been threatened, everybody, thanks for coming to my event. But I've been threatened. And I did some research on this woman who threatened me and is trying to take food out of my daughter's mouth. Here you go. And she went and had some people do research. Then she went to Michael's and Kinko's and made a big, like a science project thing. Like, like, it was like one of those, you know how the. The board and it has the two sides. Like, I don't even know what she was doing. And showed these explicit photos of this girl back in the day when she was a webcam girl or a video cam girl, I don't even know. And it was her with a man's in her mouth, okay? And everyone's like, oh, my God. The next day she finds out that this happened when she wasn't there. She's totally mortified. Kenya gets asked to stop filming. And according to Brit in her lawsuit, she just found out that the woman that was displayed at the party for the cameras for everyone to talk and blog and everything about wasn't even her. It wasn't her. According to her, it was not her. So she stressed about all of this stuff, was horrified, was like, I don't know. I've done a lot of things in my life that there was some Revenge porn of me out there. And, you know, so now she's suing Bravo. Bravo has very strict contracts about suing each other for defamation. We're filming the way the show goes. You know, we can't keep what someone says out of their mouth. We let it unfold as it was. We did reprimand Kenya for it. Kenya, whoever she got to be her investigators really fucking dropped the ball. If this is, in fact, true and this was just some other girl that resembled her, it's just a mess. It's dark. And out of all the lawsuits that have been made through Leah from Real Housewives of New York, and I don't know if Brandi Glanville was suing and her lawyers dropped her, pushing, like, alcohol and this and that. This one, I feel like I. I don't know. This one, it's going to be a hard one, because it's like they. They were just filming what was going on. If they can't. If none of the producers were involved in going to Kinko's or Michael's, and none of the producers even knew that she was bringing these boards, which they. If they can prove that they did not know that she was bringing these explicit photos of this other cast member onto her event, then I think that they'll win the case. But obviously, for her, I mean, talk about some major vindication. It reminds me of when the earrings were fake. That feeling of like, oh, my God, they were worth $40. They were not worth 10,000 or 3,000. Hello? And then everyone's like, I'm tired of that story. Well, I'm not. And if this is, in fact, true, whether you don't like her nasal voice or not, she deserves to have her day. Jax from the Valley. Jax Taylor. From what I see, he was doing a podcast tour that has been canceled due to the backlash of the viewers that are seeing him as a husband to Britney. Seeing that, you know, he was. The last episode, she's talking to his sister on the phone, and they're filming at their house, and she covers all the nest cams in the house, but I guess they have audio as well. And all of a sudden, she's like, oh, my God. The producer just came up to me and said that Jax was listening to us. This is crazy. He's rage texting me right now, like, oh, my God. Jax is, like, the worst. I don't even know what I'm going to do with him. Like, this is crazy. But I just. It is kind of great that she just has to laugh because it really is so insane. But I think to the women at home, that was like a final straw. I mean, already they didn't like seeing what we'd already seen. The way he talks and everything to her and the fighting. But also, I think him doing a podcast tour when he just started his new podcast without Britney, it might be a tad premature, but you gotta strike while the iron is hot. But the popularity is just not where it's at. He's gotta have like a little redemption. He's gotta, you know, find a new girlfriend who then Brit loves and they co parent together and. But right now, in the dark thick of this divorce, it's just not on his side. Also fun. Oh, also fun. News of the weekend is I came across Ramona's Instagram story that just keeps giving. And it. She was like, hello. She's like, you know what? It's so gorgeous out. I'm in the Hamptons and I am enjoying myself because I'm at a friend's house and they are actually serving the food so I don't have to do anything. Isn't that great? And then the next one, she's even like a little more buzzed, about to set. Look at this beautiful table that I didn't have to set up. Cause I'm a guest for once and it's just beautiful. And I was like, you know what, Good for her. She is having the time of her life. She was, you know, a bottle of Pinot Grigio in, in the sun, feeling grateful, picked up her phone and just wanted the world to know how great her life is. And you know what, I've been there. So. Okay. Also, JLO was performing this weekend, which we get. Talk about JLo in my interview at Worldwide Pride Day. And you know, some people were a little shocked by her bodysuit, which was extremely tiny on the actual vajayjay area. So you got this side cleavage of the, of the vagina or whatever you want to call it. And some people were like, heather, I want to know what you think. Well, first of all, the body was banging. It got us talking. Also, you know, the outfit requires like really good tight tights and then like a fishnet over it to like camouflage. So you're really sucked in. Like you're, you're. It didn't look comfortable. It didn't look comfortable. And thank you, everyone said, heather, your prediction is right. You said vagina cleavage was going to be all the rage this year. And here we are. Been proven many times to be true that that particular prediction is True. Also just recently, I mean, you guys, it is getting kind of scary, the things I say on the show and then like, articles come out. Just recently I said, I want, I really hope some news comes out that cold plunges aren't that good for you or don't do anything for you because I'm not cold plunging. Everybody else is. And I really can't stand going in cold water. I like my pool warm. I like a hot Jacuzzi. Well, this week multiple articles came out saying it actually shrinks the growth of your muscles plunging all the time. I'm just saying what the article says. Don't come for me. Don't drain your cold plunge. I mean, whatever your story is, is your story, but I, it's more about me saying it and then it comes back. It's, it's okay, whatever. Also on the Hulu show, secret lives of Mormon wives. Demi and her husband, who are at the center of the whole vanderpump villa guy flirting with her. And then it turned out he was actually flirting with Jesse. And anyway, they did not make the reunion. And when asked about it, she posted on social media, Demi. Well, they, they told us the date very last minute. And we had a whole Disney World thing planned with hotel rooms or Airbnb and we already bought the tickets, we already got the flights and so we didn't go. And I don't know, you know, Hulu's different than Bravo.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (19:31)

Bravo.

Heather McDonald (19:31)

You don't show up to a reunion, to a reunion and it's like a huge. No, no. Like you get in a lot of trouble. You lose out on a lot of money, especially if you've been in there for a long time and they really don't like it at all. But maybe when they were filming this show, maybe the reunion was not something that they had planned for. Maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe it was a last minute thing. But I'm sure the next contract will include a reunion and a penalty if you don't show up. P. Diddy. The trial continues at the end of last week. There was another girlfriend after Cassie, that last couple years that was with him. And she was anonymous, going by a Jane Doe. But she's on the stand. There are people in the courtroom. It's a federal case, so there's no like Court TV filming it. That's why we just get the sketches of like, Diddy and you see just a woman, you know, of tan complexion, like, crying. And people believe that this is 50 cents, ex girlfriend, baby mama of his, of the Child that he had in, like, 2012. When someone had said this on a podcast a while ago, Fitty got very mad at that person. So I am just saying what is people are talking about on TikTok, that this is in fact her. She got sucked into the world of P. Diddy, feeling special that she's with a powerful guy agreeing to do these freak offs. Very similar to what Cassie said. They'd go for three to four days. She'd get the UTIs, she'd be exhausted. She'd get, you know, yeast infections. Every time, he'd promise her, you know, she'd be like, does every time we get together have to involve three or four other paid escorts? And he'd be like, okay, I mean, fine if you're not down, but, like, you know, I'll see you soon. It'll just be us. And then she'd get all excited and then he'd be like, are you ready to bring me some entertainment? What have you got for me? And then she'd have to set it up and find the guys. And at one point, one of the guys was like, so gross and smelled that after 30 minutes, she's like, I just cannot, Diddy. I cannot be with this gross guy. And he's like, fine. And then he flew out another, which, you know, cross state lines, which. That is a crime. Sex work is not legal. And so improving that the racketeering case, that's all goes into play. And that the assistants were like, one time she was, like, just excited to be with him alone. And then she sees. Oh, God, she looks up in the hotel room. She's like, the red lights that he wants. And the assistants, they're getting the baby oil and the, you know, candles ready, and it just seems awful. And then why didn't you leave? Well, I was a single mom. And then he agreed to pay me. I think he was paying her rent and $10,000 a month. Okay. She said she would do these weekly, these freak offs with three to four men that would go on for several days. And then when they weren't freaking, they were, like, sleeping. Okay. And trying to recover and getting like an IV and like a collagen smoothie or something. And so therefore, if you do the math, she was a very poorly paid sex worker. Girlfriend, whatever you want to say. Only 10,000. And if she is, in fact, the mother of Fitty's child. What was that about? How was she not getting enough money from him? She did say on. On the stand that my ex and fifth and Sean did not get along. So, I mean, I don't know if it's been confirmed, but very juicy. If not, not a great. Not a great deal for you. Poor thing. And it sounded awful. Justin Bieber looks like shit. Everyone's concerned. It's turning into a Britney Spears account. He's posting weird stuff. He's looking awful. He's just like, doing, like, photos, like, to a friend, like, you know, and weird, cryptic things. He's not dancing around in brown sensible pumps in front of an open fireplace like this one, but it seems to be heading in that direction. He and Hailey Bieber are still together. They were over the weekend with security, going to get, you know, something to eat. A lot of people also think that her billion dollar road sale doesn't really make sense for her makeup. People are like, haven't I even heard of it? How many products are there? Is this even. What is this? So there's a lot of talk of the conspiracy behind all of that. Let's see. Oh, and then Karen Reed trial is continuing. And I, you know, we've all talked about all the different theories, and first and foremost, there is enough doubt that she should not be convicted of any kind of murder or anything like that. Okay? So I'm going to say that, but I feel like this could have happened. And the only person that knows the truth is the dog who's missing. Okay? The German shepherd. If once AI is able to read the minds of dogs, we are going to be able to solve so many murders because the dog always knows what the fuck happened. The dog in the O.J. case saw it all. That dog named Cato. Yes, there was Cato Kaling, but there was. The dog was named Cato. Dogs see and know everything. If we could only just get them to talk. But what if he did go in the house? She's waiting for him because she said he went in the house. She's waiting, waiting, waiting. He gets in an argument with people in the house. It gets very physical. Maybe something's hit on his head, like a weight or something. It's down in the basement where they change that floor immediately after the dog gets involved, either protecting its owner, who is someone who lives in the house, or trying to break it up or whatever, causing the scratches and the bites on his arm. He gets the. He gets out there. They see him leave. He's like, you're fucking crazy or whatever, and he leaves. So they think he leaves beat up but alive, and they're all wasted as he's leaving, he's like, oh, thank God. She's here, but he sees her backing up, so he tries to stop her to get her attention and she inadvertently hits him, but maybe like midway in the three point turn and then he is left in the snow and is unconscious and dies. When the people are leaving the party wasted, they don't see him in the corner of the yard. But when it turns out in the morning that he's found on the lawn, that's when they all start scrambling and being like, oh my God, she says she hit him, but let's say he never even came into the house because let's get ourselves out of this narrative. We definitely don't want people to know that there was a fight. We don't want people to know that we were drinking, maybe doing drugs. We don't want people to know that we drove home from the bar drunk. We don't want anyone to know. So that is when they started to scramble and get rid of all their information. Now the only reason I think this is a possibility is because I just think that Jen McCabe, even though she's like the worst friend on earth, I don't think she consciously knew that a man that she knew was dead. When she was looking up the how long does it, how, how is my daughter's soccer or whatever volleyball team doing this week? Like what, what. That's what she was doing at 2:45. Then the how long does it, how long does it take to die in the cold? She said that's from the open tab from when she looked up the daughter's thing at 2am and not looking at it too, that it was at 6am that was the technical thing. That's still very hard. But I'm just, I still think she should be acquitted and she should not be tried again. But I'm just saying we will never really know unless someone in that house speaks. And I definitely think he went into the house. That's what I think. Have you ever woken up with a weird symptom like a swollen itchy eye and you're like, is that pink eye? I don't know what that is. And you don't really know where to begin. That's why I love ZocDoc. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care and more. I love Zotdoc because You can book an appointment through Zocdoc so fast. Typically in just 24 to 72 hours of booking, you can score the same day appointment which when you're not feeling well, you want to get in as soon as possible. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com juicy to find and instantly book a top rated Doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com juicy zoc$doc.com juicy Ladies, it's time that you break up with your old uncomfortable undies and bralettes. Okay, Spring is here and that means fresh starts. Starting with me undies. Giving your top drawer a major glow up. These ultra modal feel free undies and bralettes are giving stuff such comfort. I'm wearing them right now. I absolutely love them. They're in the cutest print. I don't want to show you but they have like these little cocktail glasses on them and I just feel like a fun lady. No, but they are so soft and comfortable and it's just time. I can't believe I kept some of these gross underwear around for so long. Ladies, we deserve it. That's why you need your meundies. Spring into comfort with meundies. Support the show by going to Meundies.com juicy scoop and using my code juicy scoop to get 20% off your first order plus free shipping. That's Meundies.com juicy scoop code juicy scoop for 20% off plus free shipping. Meundies Comfort from the outside in. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm really excited to talk to a very juicy interview. I know it will be because she is a Hollywood agent. Was a Hollywood agent turned author, executive producer of movie and TVs of TV shows. Your own book, Climbing in Heels, which is all about. It's a fictional book based on some real characters maybe, but about women trying to make it in Hollywood in the 80s on the executive side. And I've heard so much about it. So like I was following Kyle and Kyle from Beverly Hills went to your book party and that's where I first was like, oh, this is cool. And I think I followed you. And then you DMed me and I was like, yeah, I'd love to have you on. I think this is like a fascinating book, but also I wanna know about your life.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (31:09)

Yeah, it's not a straight line, right? Did I DM you? Wow, that's so bold of me. That's so unlike me. But okay, I'll take it.

Heather McDonald (31:21)

Or maybe I DM'd you. And you responded, I don't know, who cares?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (31:24)

Either way, it was, yeah. I mean, you know, I think life is about the pivot. I think, you know, this book is a fictional tale about three secretaries who come from very different backgrounds who meet at the Sylvan light Agency in 1980 Hollywood. And the terrain is rough, especially if in one of their cases, their wiggle was more waddle. They were not the cheese in the mouse trap that they were forced to run in. So they had to become different cheese. They had to figure out a way in. And it's before me too. And I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but there's a lot of blow and blow jobs. It's the 1980s, but there's also a lot of tenacity. There's a lot of standing up when they pass you by and saying, I won't quit when they want you to. It's the story of survival and friendship and betrayal and how some of the women become a lot like the monsters they worked for. Right.

Heather McDonald (32:27)

That is so true. And I don't think people recognize that enough about executives in this business that are female or in any business. I've said it. I feel like sometimes they are not champions of other women because, well, I can't.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (32:42)

I don't want to judge. I certainly don't want to judge the characters in my book through the prism of 2025. And I'd like to think that they think they are, yes, but that they. It was funny, you magazine did this article on me and they said, well, were you a monster? I said, at some point I probably was. You do your best to uphold your integrity and then you look at the people around you and you become a force. When I was a little girl, there was a cartoon. I think his name was Vavoom. It would be before your time. And he would go up to mountains. He was a little Eskimo and he went up to mountains and he went, va voom. And the mountain blew apart. And that image, my sister in law Mimi gave me actually a cell from that cartoon because that image is emblazoned on my mind. I wanted in so badly. All of these characters in this book wanted to invent or reinvent their lives. And they were all formed and I guess informed by their mothers who were their fuel and their kryptonite. Right. Nobody can bring you to your knees better than your mom. And I think that I can't judge them. I'd like to think that women now are more aware and more empowering. I know my producing partner, Jennifer Lopez, has put me on her shoulders, on her skinny shoulders. But I've stood there and has promoted my book and has embraced the fact that I'm not only a producer, I'm a writer. And I was her agent. So kind of. Kind of reinforcing this idea that we can do more than one thing in life.

Heather McDonald (34:39)

So, okay, let's just go back. So you. Now, you weren't really an agent in the 80s. You're too young for that.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (34:47)

I wasn't an agent in the. No, I'm not too young. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I must look good today. I was an agent in the 80s. I started very young. I started at the age of 20. I graduated college early, and I was a secretary who, like Beanie Rosen in my book, whose wiggle was more waddle. I was too loud, I was too bold, I was too smart, I was too ambitious. And in those days, secretaries had to say they just wanted to be secretaries. The mail room was the male room, and that's where the trainees went, that's where the boys went because they were training to be agents. And I finagled my way through. I found women who did support me. A woman named Toni Howard, who's still agenting, a woman named Sue Mengers, who was a legend, who was hard on me, but who saw my talent, and I think she saw herself in me. And they helped me through. They helped me navigate around the system that was designed to keep me out. And I became an agent in the late 80s and I came out fast. I wanted to.

Heather McDonald (35:54)

So did you ever work with the agent Iris Burton? Iris Burton, the child agent.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (36:01)

I remember. I mean, I may have spoken to her. She was a generation before me, but I know that she represented. I think her son was Barry Miller.

Heather McDonald (36:15)

She represented children.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (36:17)

Yeah, but you know, her son. Do you remember the movie Fame? Did you ever see the movie Ken?

Heather McDonald (36:21)

Yeah, yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (36:22)

The young guy in it, Barry Miller, who was brilliant actor, is her son.

Heather McDonald (36:29)

Oh, wow.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (36:30)

Yeah, yeah. She was a child. She was an agent of child actors in the 80s, I think, but before me.

Heather McDonald (36:36)

So she was like, very harsh. And so we lived in Woodland Hills, and this neighbor had these friends come over and their kids had an agent. And my mom was like, I think my kids, my daughters, would love to have an agent. And she goes, oh, well, then we'll introduce you to Iris Burton, our agent. And so anyway, we went up to her house, the three of us. Like, I remember going up these steps, and she looked at all Three of us, my two sisters and I. And was like, okay, like, I'll represent you.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (37:14)

Oh, wow.

Heather McDonald (37:15)

And then the other girls.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (37:17)

Is this the 80s?

Heather McDonald (37:18)

This is the 80s. This would have been even before then. This would have been like 1975 or 6.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (37:24)

I see.

Heather McDonald (37:25)

And then I just remember my mom thought it was, like, so harsh because this other family that had come to see if she wanted. She didn't want them. And she said, leave the light on for the McDonald's as they were going down these, like, scary steps in Hollywood. Then years later, you know, she was still around and representing another person. I knew another. And I actually did, like, a caricature of her at the Groundlings, because it was like she wanted identical twins. I haven't had a good set of twins since, like, you know. Cause twins would work twice the amount of time. And so I always just think of that as, like, you know, the harshness of seeing how hard, you know. And then I never booked anything.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (38:11)

It was a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I think I spoke to her.

Heather McDonald (38:15)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (38:15)

A few times because. But I worked at the William Morris Agency. So what happened to me was, can.

Heather McDonald (38:22)

You tell them I'm their client? I've been there for a long time.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (38:25)

Oh, that's an interesting. That's an interesting testimony.

Heather McDonald (38:30)

Just kidding everybody.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (38:31)

I was in love with this guy. In love with him. I grew up in the Valley. I grew up, you know, I was born in Pacoima. My mom called it Arlita. We moved to Sepulveda. My mom called it Northridge. I never knew where I lived. I just knew it wasn't good enough for my mom. But I also learned that image was more important than truth. And I think that, you know, for my mom, the measure of success was if you live south of the boulevard, Boulevard being Ventura Boulevard, there was, like, the hills and the hills not. And we were in the hills not. But she kind of, you know, the guy on the ice, the Zamboni machine.

Heather McDonald (39:10)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (39:10)

She sort of nudged our reality into her truth or her truth into our reality. So suddenly we were. Where are you from? We're from south of the boulevard. Our temple. It was always the aspiration to just. I never thought about living in Beverly Hills. It was just. The Encino Hills would have been fine. But I was in love with a boy who was hills and I was hills not. And he was short. He went to our temple, a very upscale temple. He was. I don't know. He said he was 5 foot 8. He was probably 5 foot 5 with lifts, which meant he was 5 foot 3 and I'm like 57 and we look like mutt and jiff. And I just wanted anything for him to like me. And, you know. And my dad was a salesman and he had taught me that no just meant try again, try harder, which was good in some instances, but was bad when somebody wasn't into you and he wanted an agent, this guy. And I said, guffaw, I'll help you get an agent. Not even knowing what an agent was, I bullshitted my way. I zambonied my truth. Oh, my father is related to somebody who can help you. I zamboni it. Or you might say I manifested my reality because I said to him, I'll do it. And I was going away to Berkeley and he was staying local and I had the summer to do it. So I put a list of franchise agents together from the Screen Actors Guild, and there must have been 5,000. I'm not kidding. Tiny, tiny print. I had the girls at the card store I was working at help me. And every day I went out with his head shot, which I had paid for. And I went to the receptionist to get to the agent. And then. No, you go to the receptionist to get the secretary. The secretary to get to the agent. All summer it's taking me just to get to the secretary. Meanwhile, I'm tap dancing for this idiot. Oh, any day now. Oh, my dad's gonna help. Don't worry. I'm gonna, you know. Just trying to deliver the yes for him. Finally, at the end of summer, I went to this one agency and I saw the agent behind a scrim and I was desperate and I started jumping up and down holding his picture, saying, I have Al Pacino in here. I have Dustin. Every short actor I could think of. Dustin Hoffman, Steve McQueen. So he comes out and he goes, who is he? I said, he's brilliant. You've got to just meet him. It'll take 10 minutes. What do you have to lose? He said, 10 minutes. And I said, and if you don't, you're going to be walking down Hollywood Boulevard, you're going to see his picture on every billboard. And you're not going to ask how short he is or what's wrong with him. You're going to say, I could have met this kid, and I didn't.

Heather McDonald (41:58)

And this kid was named Tom Cruise.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (42:01)

No. But he said to me, the best thing about this kid is you. But Heather, I got the yes and I went to a payphone for mobiles and I called him and I was so excited. And this loser gets picked up by this agent and I don't know, maybe two months later he gets this little role on chips. And I think, oh my God, he's going to be carved out into the Mount Rushmore hall of Fame. Then he gets a semi regular role on Happy Days. So he's really taken off.

Heather McDonald (42:32)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (42:33)

And shortly thereafter, he dumps me. But, you know, I never forgot the thrill of getting the S. And because of him and that stupid situation, I found my way to being an agent. Because I knew I was good at selling people I believed in. I knew I could manifest his career. I understood the architecture of the cell. And that's how I became an agent.

Heather McDonald (43:04)

So how did you then start representing or meet Jennifer Lopez?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (43:09)

Oh, well, years later, I mean, I became a secretary who found my way to becoming an agent. I came out fast. I represented Nicholas Cage, I represented Julia Roberts, and I spent the 90s building my career.

Heather McDonald (43:25)

So was she your client during Pretty Woman?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (43:27)

Yeah, I signed her at Mystic Pizza.

Heather McDonald (43:32)

I loved that movie too.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (43:33)

Yeah, and all the way till Erin Brockovich. So that was my trajectory as an agent and we met together.

Heather McDonald (43:40)

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Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (47:27)

Well, they have the right people in back. I mean, I was a motion picture agent, okay? I didn't do tv. That was the area I found I wanted to do tv, but I was in the motion picture department. She was signed by a friend of mine in New York by a woman named Risa Shapiro and Kevin Uvain. They signed her in New York. I was the west coast contact and she and I just clicked that we had an overlap and, and you know, she was raw talent. You could see it. Brilliant, lovely, funny, beautiful and smart.

Heather McDonald (48:11)

Did you have any idea when a script like Pretty Woman would come across that it would be such a phenomenal hit. Because when you think about it today, the concept, it is a fantasy. It doesn't make sense, you know, like, that a girl that looked like her would actually be on the street, like, giving blowjobs.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (48:28)

It was the darkest script you've ever seen called 3000. And Julia was attached to do it at a place called Vestron. And they went out of business. And the guy who ran it, rest in peace, Steve Ruther, went over as a producer, Laura Ziskin, all these people that were involved. And I chased it hard. It went to Disney, and we were like, Disney. And Jeffrey Katzenberg, who is a genius, saw the potential in what it could be, the Pygmalion of it all. And he hired Garry Marshall. Genius. And Julia, we really had to campaign for that. And she tested, and then we had to get the guy. And we watched it sort of blossom into Pretty Woman. It was a dark script called 3000, written by Gary Lawton, I think that was his name. And it was remarkable. And, you know, I always thought, oddly, being from the Valley, because I grew up with Valley Girl. Right. And it was like a joke.

Heather McDonald (49:39)

So did I. So, yeah, woodland, healthy. And I'm sorry, but I was raised south of Boulevard and it was a big thing that we talked about.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (49:45)

You were south of the Boulevard?

Heather McDonald (49:46)

Yes, because my parents were realtors, so they would constantly talk about south of Boulevard.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (49:50)

Yeah, we lived where the housekeepers lived. I didn't know the difference, except my mom did. But, you know.

Heather McDonald (49:56)

But then, you know, when I got to SC was the first time I realized to be from the Valley was trash.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (50:02)

Well, that's the thing.

Heather McDonald (50:03)

I thought I was killing it.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (50:05)

You didn't know. You didn't know that. It was until Valley Girl happened. For me, I thought it was the best place to be from. And then I started not telling people I'm from the Valley. But you know what? Again, me being from the Valley informed my commercial instincts. Because the Valley is your local mall, by the way. To this day, I'm very happy in a mall. You know, the Valley is very middle America, so my tastes, I found, were very similar to female tastes. And they still are across the country. I learned to trust my instincts on material. And oddly, you know, if it hadn't happened with my boyfriend, me getting him an agent, I think I would have just become a writer. But I realized I was good at more than one thing. And so I became an agent. And then I became a very successful agent. And in the 90s, I represented, yes, Julia and gosh, you know, Susan Sarandon.

Heather McDonald (51:08)

So was part of your job then being able to detect if you thought a script had legs or.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (51:15)

Absolutely. It wasn't the ones we said yes to, it was the ones we said no to. And we were smart about it. And Julia had really good instincts as well. And I also worked with Madonna in the 90s.

Heather McDonald (51:27)

And speaking of Pretty Woman, I remember reading a story that they thought Madonna would be good for Pretty Woman. And she said, oh, no, you need a much younger girl, like a 21 year old. That's just something I remember reading in an article.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (51:40)

I don't think that. I don't think that was accurate. I mean, I don't know. This was Pretty Woman was, I think, 89. No. I remember when they changed the title to Pretty Woman, we went, what? But Jeffrey Katzenberg, it's his genius. It's his genius, that movie. He was the architect, honestly. And I can't say it enough, especially in looking back and having a front row seat to all of that. It was wildly fun. But I didn't sign. By the time I signed Jennifer, it was, I don't know, 1998. And my husband saw her in a movie. And at that point I was this big deal agent. I represented big stars, Nick Cage and, you know, really big success.

Heather McDonald (52:34)

So then you were successful. So then you were. Where were you living then? In the Hollywood Hills. Beverly Hills. Where were you living when you were having to go to your office every day?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (52:43)

Well, I'll tell you, I was at William Morris until 1990 and kind of like what happens in the book that, you know, CAA was very much on the rise and they were picking off the clients at William Morris. I felt like I was in a target practice and I knew I had to leave. And so it was, do I go to CAA with a man named Michael Ovitz who ran it, or do I go to icm? And I brilliant man named Jeff Berg called me and my partner at the time, Raisa Shapiro, and we went to ICM with a group of other women. We all went there, causing William Morris to have to acquire another agency. It was pretty Titanic. It was like. It was like a big tsunami. When we went, I think it was six women who went. And on the COVID of Los Angeles magazine back then it had William Morris with the Titanic sinking because we had tipped them. And part of us went because we weren't recognized the way the men were.

Heather McDonald (53:49)

And so then you were able to bring your top clients with you?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (53:52)

My clients came with Us. Yes. Our clients came with us. And. And. But in 94, I wanted to move to New York. I had met my husband through Julia, actually, and he lived in New York, and I'd always wanted to live there. I always thought people thought I was from there. It sounded cool. It would be fun. And somebody at my agency said, if you do that, it'll kill your career.

Heather McDonald (54:20)

If you move to New York.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (54:21)

If you move to New York, it'll kill your. No one will sign with you. You won't be hot anymore. And I was afraid. I didn't recognize my power.

Heather McDonald (54:28)

Heather.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (54:28)

I didn't realize, wait, I have the biggest star in the world. I was afraid. And then someone else came to me and said, do it. Always vote for yourself. And I'll never forget that advice, because I went to New York, and then immediately I signed Madonna and Spike Lee and Matt Dillon, all of these people who at the time were just huge. And Jennifer Lopez and Jennifer. I kind of felt like. And I was representing a lot of people in those days, but I thought, if I don't represent you, I'm gonna feel devastated. I loved her because when I met her, first of all, I loved her talent. I loved the fact that she wanted to do more than one thing. I loved her resilience. But when I met her, the thing I noticed most was she's not judgmental. We had gone to this concert, this thing, and Barry Manilow was playing. And so I thought to be cool, I would say, you know, Barry Manilow. And she looked at me, she said, I love him. I love his music. There's not a judgmental bone in this woman's body. She is somebody who looks at you and says, you know, you can be, and you should be whatever you need to be. And I had never met anybody like her.

Heather McDonald (55:54)

That's great. And so then when you. Then when did you go from agent to, let's produce these projects together?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (56:02)

I wanted to in 2000. I knew I wanted to write. And other than Jennifer, not a lot of my clients were excited about the idea of their agent being a writer. You know, it's weird how we keep people in one lane, right? As if you should make one decision your whole life, and that's all you should do. God. It's not that you only live once. You only die once. You live every day. So if you have a passion to do more than one thing, don't marginalize yourself. Don't minimalize your talent. The fact that I'm a good writer made me a better agent, and it's kind of like Jennifer. Here's this woman who's this dancer who became this amazing actor. When you look at the breadth of her career, the role she's done and how long she's been doing it.

Heather McDonald (56:53)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (56:54)

And then who became this beautiful singer who's had like 80 billion streams, I mean, massive amounts of hits, and yet she's marginalized. You know, I saw this interview. It was resurfaced recently. Made me enraged. And look, it's old. I'm sure it's not the way she feels anymore, I would hope. But it was such an interesting interview that Larry King did with Mariah Carey where Mariah said. He said, does it make you upset that Jennifer Lopez is such a big superstar? And she said, well, I'm a singer. Implying, of course, that Jennifer wasn't. Now our next movie is Kiss of the Spider Woman. John Kander, who wrote the music for that and who wrote the music for Cabaret, who's 97, cried when he heard her doing her pre record. She has a beautiful voice, but yet we. And sometimes women do this.

Heather McDonald (57:50)

Wait, Kiss the Spider Woman is something you are doing right now.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (57:53)

It's coming out in October.

Heather McDonald (57:54)

Oh, wow.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (57:55)

You're gonna see Jennifer. It's a story about love. Is love.

Heather McDonald (57:58)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (57:59)

It is a beautiful movie.

Heather McDonald (58:01)

No, it came out, like 30 years ago. Right. This is a remake.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (58:04)

This is a. What came out 30 years ago was Bill Hurt and Raul Julia. This is a musical about two men who are in prison who ultimately fall in love. And they do it through the imaginings of this movie that one tells the other about. And Jennifer is the star of that movie.

Heather McDonald (58:23)

Oh, okay.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (58:23)

It is a beautiful movie that Bill Condon directed, and her voice is pristine. And I just think, you know, it's a shame that we marginalize people for doing more than one thing. It's almost as if our fear that we only do one thing causes us to limit them or limit their talent. She's extraordinary. And because of her, I was able to sort of stand in my truth and go, I'm a pretty good writer and I'm a good producer, and I've never stopped being an agent.

Heather McDonald (58:56)

Right.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (58:56)

You know, you can do more than one thing in life. Heather, you're a brilliant standup. I love Groundlings, by the way. I didn't realize that you were in the Groundlings I loved. I used to go there.

Heather McDonald (59:09)

It's funny because you say about, oh, you pivoted, whatever, from stand up to this. I still am a standup, but now I want people to say I'm a standup because everyone has a podcast. So in talking about how, you know, people are, it's like everyone's an influencer. Everyone is on Instagram. Like, we were watching this, the Pee Wee Herman doc last night, and I was saying to my son, it was good. It was a little too much about the shows, to be honest. Like, I wanted to just kind of get more to, like, his life. And, you know, he's passed and he's really brilliant in the documentary. Like, he's funny as. He's just like messing with the documentarian. But, you know, unless you were a super fan of the. It was a little too much on, like. And then in this episode, I was like, okay, come on. Yeah, yeah, but. But I was trying to explain that, like, there were only like a handful of famous people, you know, and they were. It was special when a famous person did a TV appearance. Like a Cher was gonna be on his. It was a big deal. Now the most famous people are on Instagram. We see their outfits before the Oscars. They're selling just like a 25 year old selling, which I get it. That's life. Hollywood's change. But I think so then sometimes when you're doing something that then everybody's doing, you're like, well, everyone can have a podcast. In my case, not everyone can do standup. So it's like, I kind of want to. And so when I did this thing the other day, they. Their description of me, which I changed and they didn't make the change in time, which is fine.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (60:53)

Was.

Heather McDonald (60:55)

Our next presenter is a great comedian and she also has her own podcast called Juicy Scoop. I'm like, who doesn't have their own podcast? There's literally 2 billion podcasts. I'm like, no, that's not. I was like, that's not really how I want to be. Because, like, just because, you know, so I get how people sometimes are thinking like, wow, my identity has changed because so many other people have. Maybe.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (61:23)

But here's the thing. You have a really fun podcast because, you know, and because I'm getting asked to do so many of them, I was like, and I watched yours and it's fun, but you're also a phenomenal comedian. And if you wanted to be a writer, you have.

Heather McDonald (61:42)

I've written two books, but that's.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (61:43)

There you go. But the point is that in life, I don't think it's ever too late to pick.

Heather McDonald (61:49)

No, it's never too late. And I think it's really great. And I'm Curious to, like, did you always have this idea? And why did you decide to do fiction instead of a nonfiction like memoir?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (62:03)

Because this is far more interesting than my life. I mean, these girls are far more bawdy and brave and witty and. And desperate. And you can turn left in fiction. In the book, I go back, it takes place in the 80s, so I do flashbacks to show who they were. So, I mean, back in the 60s, in some cases I'm back in the 50s. In some cases I'm back in the 30s. There's a character, a woman who is a ball buster in the 80s. She's already achieved her success. And I go back to watching how she achieved it. And I do use. I season it with real people, you know, with people who were famous in those days in the 30s and the 50s and the 60s and the 80s. So I season it that way. But the characters are fictional. But there's some things in there that I'd heard about. I remember so clearly this assistant saying to me, and I dramatize this in the book where an actress.

Heather McDonald (63:07)

Where.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (63:09)

The secretary came into this agent's office and found an earring. And the secretary says to the trainee, whose is this? And what you discover is that the agent would audition actresses every Wednesday. And he'd ask them. He'd get a casting director on the phone, and the casting director would say, well, what's she look like? Is she tall? Is she sexy? Is she fun? Well, she's tall and she's sexy, but are you fun? And she'd giggle. And then she'd take off her shoes and take off her sweater and so on and take off her earrings. And the secretary said to the trainee, well, how do you know? How do you know how it transpires? And the agent would let him listen as a bonus, if he did a good job or if he worked on weekends, he'd let him listen as he messed around with these secretaries. So, you know, you mean actresses. I mean actresses. Also secretaries, when they were interviewing them for different roles, different positions. Sometimes they wanted spinners, sometimes they wanted long legs and no last name. Now, not every person was like that, but it was real.

Heather McDonald (64:23)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (64:24)

And you tell it to young. Like young women today are reading my book. You know, I'm thrilled. And it's a bestseller. It's taken off all of that. But they're reading it going, God, the 80s seem so great.

Heather McDonald (64:37)

Well, you know, it's really. I think it's. Well, I think it's really brilliant that a. That you wrote it from that era. There's obviously the hits that have come in the last couple years that have been from that time, whether it's the Menendez brothers or whatever. The nostalgia that's on TikTok of kids like wanting to see. And even when I talk to young people, they're like. Cause I wrote a book about my dating adventures like in the early 90s, and I called it you'll never blue ball in this town again. Because I was an old virgin who was trying to make it in Hollywood. And you remember those books? You'll never make love in the town again, then you'll never nanny in this town again. You'll never have lunch in this town again was the first one. And then the one about being like a high class hooker in Hollywood was you'll never make love in this town again, which was so juicy.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (65:28)

Wow.

Heather McDonald (65:29)

And so anyway, I was like, I'm just gonna play off of that and make fun of these things. And because it's a time where there was no social media and you had to call or leave a message or maybe you would miss a call and you wouldn't know what the person was doing so you could be coy and all of that. I feel like the, you know, the Gen Z, they just, it's like, what was that? Like they want to dive into that world.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (65:59)

They do.

Heather McDonald (65:59)

And watch it and read about it and imagine what life was like before everything was online and it's fun.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (66:06)

I mean, look, the hair was big, the shoulder pads were big, the phones were big. But there were other things that weren't so big even though they thought they were. You know, it was fun, but the truth is it was all we knew. I didn't take a moment to think, gee, this is unfair, or gee, this is hard. It was just the terrain that I was facing. So I had to think, how do I get in? How do I get the yes? Because no just meant try again, try harder. Which is really great if you want to be an agent. May not be so great personally, but it's really great if you want to be an agent. And it was a great training ground. My mother sort of manifesting the life she wanted and my father teaching me that no just meant try again.

Heather McDonald (66:57)

Was there any client or project that you did turn down that you maybe didn't regret? But they went on to enormous success and you're like, oh, you know, like when you hear about actors passing on.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (67:12)

Big scripts and stuff. I had a client who shall remain nameless. I never ever want to tell tales, nor will I.

Heather McDonald (67:21)

Well, you don't have to say.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (67:22)

The Nameless were offered Sleepless in Seattle and did not do it. And I was on my knees. But again, out of that, I was able to develop a great friendship with Nora Ephron, rest her soul, who told me back in 2000, you need to write. You need to write. There's a lovely man named Ron Bass. He was a lawyer who became a screenwriter. He wrote some of our favorite movies. He wrote Sleeping with the Enemy. He wrote My Best Friend's Wedding, and they were doing a reshoot on it. So he came into my office and we were bullshitting around. We always used to talk about ideas, he and I. And I loved it. And he came in and he said, they're doing a reshoot on it, and this is what we're trying to figure out. So I pitched him something, and he called me later. He said, would you write that down? Just the way you pitched it? And I said, no. He brought me the next day, Final Draft, which is a computer program. Computers were kind of new then. It was like, 95, I guess. And he taught me how to use it. And he said, just write this scene and this other scene that they were reshooting in a bathroom. And he said, just for the heck of it. So I did. And he ended up showing it to the studio. And, you know, bless him, he gave me credit. In other words, he told them I did it. And he made me believe in myself in a way that really helped me stop being afraid. I was afraid to admit I wanted to do anything other than agent or anything other than produce. I was afraid I'd be judged. I was afraid it would somehow minimalize one, you know? So I guess that's why I'm so enamored with Jennifer, because she recognized that my ability to be a storyteller made me a better agent. And she didn't make me stay in one lane. I wasn't ever afraid that, oh, gosh, if I tell her I want to write, she'll get another producing partner, if anything. She stood beside me and shouted louder. And it says a lot about her.

Heather McDonald (69:33)

And then. So this has already been made into. Going to be made into a series.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (69:39)

Darren Starr for Peacock. Darren Starr read it. Darren Starr, who does Sex and the City and Emily in Paris and Younger and many others read it when it was in its infancy. And he was a friend of mine. So I just wanted to know, is it too steamy? Because there's lots of. It's very spicy, this book, very Valley of the Dolls. And so he Went, I not only love it, I want to option it. I said, come on. He said, no, I want to. Then he called me three days later. He said, universal wants to option it. I was like, gafaw. My favorite word. He said, I'm serious. Universal wants to option it. I said, I haven't even. It's not even published. Universal optioned it. Then we got a call from Peacock, said, we will give you a straight to series order if you don't go anywhere else. So we're gonna be a series. So right now we're writing the outline and then.

Heather McDonald (70:35)

So will Jennifer be a producer on it as well?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (70:37)

Yeah.

Heather McDonald (70:37)

Oh, that's great.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (70:38)

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Heather McDonald (70:39)

Yeah. So, I mean, that's gonna be really fun. Do you. Will you be a really big part of that or not?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (70:50)

I wanna be. I mean, I wanna. I'm writing the pilot right now with Darren. Yeah. People say, well, how are you gonna do both? And I guess I say, watch me. No, it'll be, yeah, I'll figure it out. You know, again, these rules that we have to do this or we have to do that, emancipate yourself from other people's idea of your life and design your own.

Heather McDonald (71:15)

Do you like the casting process? Like, do you sit in the room through all these projects that you've done with Jennifer and watch people read for it? And is there something. As an actor, I've always. I'm not good at auditioning. I'd get so nervous, and then I'd hear people would take beta blockers and I'm like, should I take a pill before I really? Yeah. But then I could go do. Stand up, like, in front of, you know, whatever. Thousands of people.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (71:43)

Wow.

Heather McDonald (71:44)

And, like, not be nervous, but something about, like, parking at the studio, like, walking, you know, hoping to have it memorized, but maybe not have it memorized. Because some acting coaches would say, don't have it memorized. Hold the thing and act like you don't care. I don't know. I would say memorize it. But. And then, like, then the distraction that happens in the room of like, hi, girl. And you see people. And then there'd be someone else that would just be reading a book. I'm like, how could they be reading a book right before they go? Like, there's so much. So I always wonder, like. And what I tell people now is, like, they want it to be you. They want their job to end. They don't want, like. But I think going in there was something in my mindset that, like, they weren't gonna like me or they didn't like me. You know, instead of like, oh, you're gonna be so happy I arrived. Cause I'm the one. Like, I didn't have that attitude. Now I do, but I didn't.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (72:38)

I believe. Listen. You know abracadabra. And ancient Hebrew translates to say it, see it, be it, Abracadabra. I have a chapter in the book called the Abracadabra Girls. I believe in manifesting your reality, I guess from my mom. So when I'm in the casting process and I'm looking at people reading, I have great empathy because I represented actors. I try to make everyone as comfortable as possible, but I'm looking for someone who can play the lie. Who. It's just so natural. It's like they embody it. They're not reading their being because then they're manifesting right in front of me. And then you can't shake it. Then you can't shake it.

Heather McDonald (73:31)

Was there any time that, like, you wanted someone that was, like, less famous for the part, but then the studio or the network was, like, pushing the.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (73:41)

No, but there was a time where one of the best things that. Not best, but I represented an actor named Tim Robbins who, you know, I would read every script early. I'm a voracious reader, and you have to be able to read quickly. And I think my talent was most honed in knowing great material. And I read a script called Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, and I loved it. And I sent it to Tim. I said, they want Tom Cruise. I mean, you know, but maybe one of these other. And he was obsessed, and he was really hot at the time. He was sort of coming up. He had done this. I think he had done the Player. He had done this kind of mock you series.

Heather McDonald (74:26)

I loved the Player.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (74:27)

Thank you. Yeah.

Heather McDonald (74:28)

That was about the industry too.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (74:29)

Yes, it was. Yeah. And I had put that movie together.

Heather McDonald (74:32)

Right. Oh, that was so good. That's a good, juicy scoop. Classic history type of film.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (74:37)

Bob Altman directed it. Rest in peace. But anyway, I chased that movie for him, Shawshank Redemption, so hard and talked to them because Cruz wasn't doing it, and they didn't know which way. And I said, you need somebody who could become it. And then I said to Tim, if you want this, you fly out. And he was hot at the time. You audition, and then you audition again. And he did, and he got it. And to me, it's one of the best movies ever made.

Heather McDonald (75:08)

And was he nominated for it?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (75:10)

I think So I know Morgan was. It's just. It's probably one of the most beloved, I call it love stories ever made. Anyway. Yeah. Was there anybody I wanted to. That I said no to who became a big star? Was that your question?

Heather McDonald (75:31)

Or a script that you didn't think would be a hit or.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (75:34)

I'm pretty good with scripts. Yeah, I'm pretty good with scripts. Look, sometimes things can hit and they aren't great and they hit, but I'm pretty good. And you can't base success on box office. You have to base success on are you happy with it? Are you proud of it? Are you happy to have it on your resume?

Heather McDonald (75:59)

Here's like, a hard question. What about when you have to call the client.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (76:03)

Yeah. And say they didn't get something?

Heather McDonald (76:06)

Well, that's hard. But also. Well, tell me that, and then I have my next question.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (76:10)

These are fun questions. Nobody's asked me these. This is fun. Well, it's devastating. When my clients got a yes was like, I got a yes when Julia won the Oscar for Aaron Brad. I won that Oscar. Conversely, when I have to call somebody and say, here, let's just do it.

Heather McDonald (76:31)

Because I've heard it a lot, I'm not getting it. So ding. A ling. A ling. Hello.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (76:38)

Hi, Heather.

Heather McDonald (76:40)

Hi.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (76:42)

So they're going a different way, and I think it's ridiculous. But here's the thing. The casting director loves you. The director wants to find something else. And inside, though, while I'm telling you this, I'm dying with you. I'm dying with you. But my goal is not to show you I'm dying with you. My goal is to show you that there's another life ahead.

Heather McDonald (77:07)

But I just want to ask you. I'm being me.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (77:10)

Oh, you're being you now?

Heather McDonald (77:12)

Because I thought, like, I totally. Are they going with a blonde? Because I told you I would have dyed my hair blonde. And I'm just wondering, should I have dyed my hair blonde with that last callback?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (77:21)

No. They're going with a guy.

Heather McDonald (77:23)

Oh, well, then I guess I can't compete with that.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (77:28)

No. But when you have to say no to somebody, you also have to keep them afloat. Because the truth is, I would do such a good job keeping them afloat, zamboning the truth so that they felt a little bit better. But inside I was dying because I felt so bad. So then I'd go and eat. I'm not kidding. Like, to quiet the noise. I would eat, and it would quiet my own devastation because nobody was comforting me. But when I I was a good agent. I made sure that my client was comforted.

Heather McDonald (78:05)

Okay, so now I have another uncomfortable call that you have to make. You hired me. I mean, not hired me, but we were working together. You're my agent, and, you know, I just haven't booked anything. And it's just not. I'm not the next Ellen like you thought I was gonna be. And you gotta, like, just set me free because you're not. It's just not popping. Okay, so now you gotta let me go.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (78:31)

So we're doing improvs now, right?

Heather McDonald (78:32)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (78:33)

Okay.

Heather McDonald (78:33)

I just wanna know what it's like to have to be on the other side because I've been on the receiving of all these calls.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (78:38)

All right, well, Heather, I want to.

Heather McDonald (78:39)

Know what goes through your head as a.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (78:42)

Okay, so they had this internal meeting, and they're making us cull our lists. And here's the truth. This agency is not doing the job for you. They should be. And I think you felt it and I felt it. And I am going to recommend you to this other agency and screw them for making me do this, because I believe in you, and I'm never going to stop believing in you.

Heather McDonald (79:06)

And that's what you would say even if you did kind of want to dump me, too.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (79:11)

If you were my client, I wouldn't want to dump you. Even if you weren't getting jobs, I would be blaming everyone else. I didn't turn on people. I was very select who I represented. I didn't represent hundreds. And I believed in them even when the town didn't.

Heather McDonald (79:30)

Now, did you ever have somebody, a client that you worked very hard for that either got poached or they called you and said, I'm so sorry.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (79:41)

You're great. Oh, my God. I had a guy who was a bit of a pain in the ass. He was a filmmaker who was a bit of a pain in the ass. I was like, fuck, I can't believe I have to talk to him again. He's gonna ask me about why nobody's buying his script. And. Oh, God. And he really was upset that nobody was buying this script. And he called me and he said, look, I think I'm gonna have to find another agent. And I was devastated, you know? Yeah. And did I have clients that got poached? I had people trying to poach my clients, so I had to be careful. Like, the Oscars weren't fun for me.

Heather McDonald (80:21)

Because I would think.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (80:22)

Because then the agents. If your client won, then all the other agents from the other agencies would sort of circle and was just you alone, you know, and they might mention a script that you hadn't mentioned and. Oh, my God. And why didn't you think of that? And it was a lot of pressure. It was hard back in the.

Heather McDonald (80:42)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (80:43)

I mean, it was the 90s.

Heather McDonald (80:44)

Like, I'm just wondering, like now if you have a client or whatever, and you open up their Instagram and you think everything's good, and then there's just happens to be a photo of them with, like, competition agent, like, smiling. You're like, oh, fuck.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (80:58)

They talked like if I was an agent. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Our next movie, Jenna and I are making a movie with Robert Zemeckis in the fall. We're excited about really fun Thriller. I was talking to Mr. Zemeckis about movie stars. He said, you know, Jennifer's one of the few remaining movie stars. I mean, other than, like, Leonardo DiCaprio, Sandra Bullock, Jennifer Lopez, Margot Robbie, Scarlett Johansson, Tom Cruise. But there aren't a lot, as you said. They're like influencers. They're. I don't know, they own makeup lines.

Heather McDonald (81:36)

They're not.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (81:38)

It's. As theatrical business is waning.

Heather McDonald (81:43)

Yeah. I mean, I can't blame them. Like, I can't blame anybody for doing it all. Like, you got to, you know, you gotta. Like you said, gotta pivot, gotta make it happen, you know? But then.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (81:53)

Oh, I don't blame. Believe me, I don't blame them. I think it's great to do more than one thing, and I don't judge anybody. But the way of the movie star in the 90s, I guess maybe the reason this book is resonating.

Heather McDonald (82:06)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (82:06)

It was a different time.

Heather McDonald (82:08)

Yeah, it's a different time.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (82:09)

People went to movies every Friday and Saturday. Every single week you went to movies. That's what you did on the weekend.

Heather McDonald (82:15)

Yeah. And it was like. Yeah. If you didn't, you know, maybe there'd be one movie that was nominated for the Oscars that you hadn't seen, but most of them, I would make sure I saw every single one. Now it's like. I don't know. It's just. It's like. It's so weird.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (82:32)

And there's too much. Now they're streaming now they're streaming now. You're watching them at home every Friday and Saturday. In the 90s, you would be. What movie are you gonna go see? Well, I'm gonna go see this Friday and this Saturday, and maybe Sunday you'd see an afternoon movie. It was just the thing you Did. Kids did it. Parents did it. Children did it. So the Disney movies, it was what you did. So the culture has changed, right? And with it, you know, I don't fault anybody for doing more than one thing, and I celebrate them. But the way of the movie star has changed, right?

Heather McDonald (83:08)

Yeah, it doesn't really. It has a different. Yeah, there's. But, you know, like, anything, you know, the way you would do something, you know, changes. So it's like how you. Now, you can do your own. You know, you can do your own thing. You can do your own thing on YouTube. You can finance self finance, you know.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (83:29)

And you have to be okay with it. Somebody said to me, well, God, what do you think? Kim Kardashian's an actress now? I said, good for her. Yeah, good for her. I mean, you can play the referee, right? And you could call foul, but the game's down here. So play the game. Life is about the pivot. Play the game. You know, back in the day, in the 90s, no star would do endorsements. They wouldn't do commercials at all. Now you see Clooney and Pitt and everybody. They judged television, they judged commercials. Now they aren't.

Heather McDonald (84:05)

Right. Well, that's where I think sometimes it's like, yeah. I mean, I remember on a smaller level, when I was at the Groundlings, I was also pursuing standup, and they were really snobby to me.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (84:17)

Wow.

Heather McDonald (84:18)

They were like, oh, you're at the Chuckle Hut. Like, you're hokey or hacky or whatever. And then they realized, and I was like, well, I like standup because I only need me. You guys need four other people to do your sketch or whatever. And then that's when they started doing this hot cup of talk and Kathy Griffin, and they started to realize, oh, we'll just do an alternative way of doing standup, which is just basically storytelling. But then they all kind of started to become standups, too, because it's just another. It's an easier way to go not to depend on.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (84:54)

Is that what you love to do most?

Heather McDonald (84:57)

I mean, I feel like it is the most. Like I said, I think it's. Very few people can do standup. People can act in a sitcom. People can get comedic timing. People can do podcasting, People can do sketch. But to actually stand on stage for like an hour and 15 or an hour and a half and keep the audience rolling and laughing is such a unique talent. So I'll never, like, stop doing it, but it's hard. Like, you gotta sell tickets, you gotta pack a bag you gotta book, you gotta get on a flight. You gotta hope that flight's not late. Like all of that part is not the fun part.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (85:36)

Do you like acting?

Heather McDonald (85:37)

But actually getting on stage is fun? Yeah, I mean, I loved. I have done it and everything. But then it was interesting how the. So then when I was on Chelsea Lately for many years, writing and producing that, and we had this secondary show called After Lately, which was like.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (85:56)

Oh, yeah, I remember it was kind.

Heather McDonald (85:58)

Of like a Curb youb Enthusiasm. But we were playing ourselves, but like exaggerated. And things would happen throughout the year, like to me or my kids. And then we had like a second team that would go, oh my God, that's great for After Lately. Let's save that story. And like, you know, finesse it. And so then after the show ended, I was like, okay, so now I want to like, get back into acting, go out on auditions. And basically the people that were representing me at the time, which I don't. I like honesty. So it didn't bother. They basically said, look at your age. Like, I was like 43. Wait, let me think how old I would have been when the show ended. Yeah, like 43 or 44, whatever. And they're like, there's so many other women that have been the sitcom mom that have the shows to back it up that it's gonna be really hard for someone to want to take a gamble on you. Even though I'm kind of a known name and funny. Over the Jolie. Is that her name? Jolie Fisher, Leah Remini, all those type of wig. Cheryl Hines, all those people that had consecutively booked things, they were always the wife, they were always the next door neighbor. And so I was kind of like, all right, I can see that. Like, if I'm gonna build a pool, this guy might have the coolest design. But if he's only built two pools, I think I'm gonna go with the person that built 50 pools. So I kind of got it. And I was like, all right, well, then I just will have to continue making my own thing. And I'm so grateful because.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (87:36)

But so odd that you felt. Or they felt you had to choose. Cause you don't. I guess that's my point.

Heather McDonald (87:42)

I don't know that they. Well, they weren't gonna send me out on things, so then I know how I was gonna get em. And then I was like. And then I was literally like, well, you're right. If it's such a challenge. And it took, you know, it takes a whole day to audition. Like, you have to practice. You have to get your outfit, you have to drive down there. Then during.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (87:59)

You're really into the whole prep of these things that.

Heather McDonald (88:02)

Well, because maybe I made too big of a deal out of it. Maybe I should have, you know, but to me, it would take all a whole day out.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (88:08)

No, it does. It does.

Heather McDonald (88:09)

And so then I was kind of like, well, I'm not doing any making. You know, I'm not booking, whatever. I never turned down an audition in my life. Would never turn down an audition or work. But then I sort of, like, stopped bugging them because I just was like, all right. And then I was like, well, why am I not going out on, like, talk show things anymore? Cause I was like, I was up for. Actually, Jennifer Lopez and her sister were gonna do a talk show. Like a younger, hip review.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (88:39)

Oh, yeah.

Heather McDonald (88:40)

And I tested for that.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (88:41)

Oh, wow.

Heather McDonald (88:42)

But I didn't get it. And then. But that's fine. It didn't go. But anyway. But I remember meeting her sister and, like, really loving that. Like, I was like, oh, my God, that was before Chelsea Lilly. And so then I was like, why isn't this happening for me anymore? And they basically were like, well, you're just not what they're looking for. They're either looking, you know, for young and not famous or diverse and whatever, and I'm neither. So then I was like, all right. And then I literally only had this. I literally had only this podcast to make a living at this in standup. And even when I told my agents I was gonna do this, they were like, fine. They didn't even try at that time to be. To try to get.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (89:26)

Are they the same agents you have now?

Heather McDonald (89:28)

No, but they didn't even try to get a cut of it. Cause there was no money in it. I made $250 a month for doing four shows that had 100,000 listeners. I was just like, oh, this is what you do. Like, just to get people to know I'm going to the Chuckle Hut or whatever. And so, yeah, so now that it's here, like, now that it's. And everybody and every star is trying to do it, I don't blame them. But it's like the veterans of podcasting kind of do go. It feels a little like less, you know. Cause it was the thing that, like.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (90:02)

You know, was so made you special. But here's my thing. After listening to your story, I would say, it's not too late. You should start auditioning and stop breaking it down. I mean, look, I do that Too. When I. Cause I have to figure out my time. Like, you know, because here I wrote a book about background people and suddenly I'm in the foreground. So I have, like, a day job where I'm producing and I'm running a company, and then I have this job where I'm promoting my. It's psycho. So I do do that. I go, okay, so if I'm gonna do this, it's gonna take this amount of time and I gotta put some makeup on and, you know. But I would say, get out of your head and audition. Tell your agents that you wanna audition.

Heather McDonald (90:46)

Anybody would like to send me an audition. I will not.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (90:49)

No, no. You've gotta be the fuel for. You can't just wait for them. Tell them.

Heather McDonald (90:55)

Well, that. I mean, honestly, that's why I did just kind of. That's why I made this, because I was tired of, like, waiting and asking and begging. And honestly, like, I would. It would be fun. But I'm also extremely creatively satisfied being my own boss doing this. I don't have, like.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (91:16)

They're not mutually exclusive. Again, you need to do what you want to do. But my point.

Heather McDonald (91:21)

I'm talking to you about this.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (91:22)

My point is that really, for anybody listening that, you know, figure out a way. There aren't. I'm looking at this. Whatever that is, that piece of art. That's careers. There's no straight line. You know, I'm. You know, I have an age range. I never say my age, but, you know, I'm north of the boulevard, north of 50. And I. Quite north of 50. And I wrote a book. Right. Because it was the right time. And I've been a writer my whole life. So my point is that, okay, tell your agents, Put me up for things. Put me up for things. Put me up for things where they need somebody. They now have these web shows. The idea of YouTube is so interesting because it's sort of. To me, it just promotes the narcissistic idea of us filming ourselves. But that's the world we live in.

Heather McDonald (92:22)

But this show is on YouTube.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (92:23)

OK. And that's the world we live in.

Heather McDonald (92:25)

Yeah, I don't. I think. Yeah, I think it's.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (92:28)

Oh, I don't mind YouTube. I'm saying that it's an interesting. It's an interesting title for what the world has become.

Heather McDonald (92:37)

Right.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (92:37)

Where we film ourselves, where we sit like this and we. We validate ourselves this way. Of course, it's the next generation for it.

Heather McDonald (92:46)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (92:46)

There's no judgment in it because again, I'm not playing the ref. I'm playing the game. I'm on YouTube.

Heather McDonald (92:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (92:52)

But they also have these micro shows now on YouTube, these little soap operas, which are tickets.

Heather McDonald (92:58)

I was just seeing a whole thing on that. And you should explore putting money into those, like 90 second, like little soaps.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (93:05)

I don't think they're 90 seconds.

Heather McDonald (93:06)

I think those are the teasers. And teasers are not speaking.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (93:09)

I think there may be four or five minutes. But my point is that, you know, wouldn't that be interesting at this stage of your life to explore that in its sort of formation and get involved with one of those just like you did 10 years ago on your podcast. Be on the frontier of it. That's what I would say as an ex. Architect of careers.

Heather McDonald (93:32)

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's true. I just.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (93:35)

Free advice.

Heather McDonald (93:36)

It's funny cause I just saw like a TikTok video on that, on all these, like the apps that like, you know, are going crazy in these smaller, like little soaps, little movies.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (93:48)

People have the attention span of gnats because of, because of our electronics. So they may only want to watch like a five minute thing and then go, oh, I want to see what happens next. And then they download, you know, the whole 20 minutes, which is, you know, 20 episodes.

Heather McDonald (94:04)

Right.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:05)

And it's a way of you having fun without the commitment of something else. It's just an idea, I'm saying. But again, there's no straight lines. Figure out your way. Be vavoom. Be my little cartoon character back in the. Whatever it was the 60s when he busted every mountain in front of him.

Heather McDonald (94:23)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:25)

And keep climbing in heels.

Heather McDonald (94:27)

I love it. Well, I am really excited to read the book. Thank you for bringing me my copy.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:32)

I'm gonna sign it for you and.

Heather McDonald (94:34)

And then of course, we'll look forward to watching it.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:37)

Oh, yes. It's gonna be an interesting one to write and to cast and to all of that.

Heather McDonald (94:42)

And then you and JLO have a new movie, Office Romance.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:45)

We do, we do.

Heather McDonald (94:45)

When is that coming out?

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (94:46)

It's so fun. She did this with Brett Goldstein, who wrote it. Talk about manifest. He wrote it for her. He manifested this and I read it and I went, oh, my God, is this funny? It's funny and it's topical and it's smart. I guess it's coming out next year. We just wrapped it. Yeah, we just wrapped it. And we're starting another one in the fall. Yikes.

Heather McDonald (95:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (95:14)

She's amazing. She's like the Energizer Bunny. Like, you know, rest, huh?

Heather McDonald (95:20)

Yeah. I've always just loved her look and style and face. Like, I just can't.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (95:25)

Yeah. I mean, look at her. Amazing, amazing. JLo Glow. JLo. JLo Glow. But a girl's girl to the nth degree.

Heather McDonald (95:34)

Yeah.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (95:35)

And people, I mean, listen, they tear you down one year, then they celebrate you. They're like worshiping her this year and again. Kiss of the Spider Woman. I can't wait for people to see it. But the thing I want people to know about her, it's not that she's. I mean, yes, she's a great actress. She's a great singer, she's a great dancer. She's an icon. She's a girl's girl. She's a girl's girl. And she, without cameras, helps more women than anyone knows. And if I could tell the world anything about her, I'd say, that's my girl. She's a good one.

Heather McDonald (96:09)

Oh, that's so great. That's so great. That is something that we don't really see. We see her as a mom. We see her as, you know, like we see her as a romantic partner.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (96:18)

Cause she's, you know, she gets. And she also gets stereotyped. She has the audacity to want to do more than one thing. And she lives out loud and she gets stereotyped, I think because she's a woman. And I think it's because she's a woman of color. And I'm gonna marginalize what you do. I'm gonna reduce it. Because if you can do so many things so well, what does that say about me? So screw them. Great.

Heather McDonald (96:47)

Well, I love it. And everybody follow Elaine Goldsmith Thomas on Instagram as well. So you can keep up on all the exciting things. But it's really fun meeting you.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (96:56)

Love the COVID It's so fun meeting you, Heather. And I love this whole juicy scoop.

Heather McDonald (97:00)

Thank you. It's been good for me.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (97:02)

I want to see you acting next. That's what I think is your next step.

Heather McDonald (97:06)

Just call me. You can DM me. Thank you.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (97:08)

Abracadabra.

Heather McDonald (97:09)

Slide in there.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas (97:10)

Abracadabra. Bye.

Unknown (97:13)

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