Boz St. John of RHOBH on Bravo, Career, Friendships and Love

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Episode: Boz St. John of RHOBH on Bravo, Career, Friendships, and Love
Date: May 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging and candid episode, Heather McDonald sits down with Bozoma “Boz” St. John—a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (RHOBH) star, powerhouse executive, fashionista, and entrepreneur. Together, they explore Boz’s colorful personal history, career journey, philosophy on friendships, reality TV, motherhood, and her deeply personal experiences with love, loss, and resilience. The episode takes listeners behind the scenes of RHOBH, addresses cultural roots, and dives into navigating life after tragedy, all while weaving in laughs and memorable insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Boz's Childhood, Cultural Roots & Early Ambition

• Ghanaian-American Upbringing: Boz was born in the US to Ghanaian parents and spent formative years in Ghana and Kenya before settling in Colorado at age 12.
  • "I do consider myself bicultural because a lot of my formative years were spent on the continent of Africa." (07:47)
• Father’s Inspirational Story: Her father, a self-taught clarinetist, won a Fulbright, earned two PhDs, and moved the family between continents.
• Language & Family: Speaks English and two Ghanaian languages; mother refused to speak English at home.
  • “She would not speak [my friends] in English and expect them to respond to her.” (08:25)

2. Resilience Through Political Upheaval & Family Trials

• The family sought political asylum in the US after her father, a Ghanaian government minister, was imprisoned during a coup:
  • "In prison...he prayed to God... ‘If you get me out of this prison, I will become a Christian.’" (10:12)
• Faith then became a keystone in their family, marking a major transformation.

3. Personal Tragedy, Motherhood & Marriage

• Loss & Grief: Boz recounts the heartbreaking loss of her first child due to preeclampsia, and how that affected her marriage:
  • “It was maybe one of the most devastating things I've ever.” (12:50)
  • “I felt like he blamed me. And I think that was. I think I made that up, you know?” (13:09)
• Pregnancy After Loss: She became a mother again soon after, but endured a stressful, medically fraught pregnancy and NICU stay, leading to marital strain and eventual separation.
• Navigating Co-Parenting & Her Husband’s Illness: After separation, her ex-husband was diagnosed with Burkitt's lymphoma; Boz took charge during his illness until his passing in 2013.
  • “That might have been the first fracture in our relationship was Eve's death...all you have is your grief.” (13:07–13:48)
  • Memorable Moment: Her unusual but amicable relationship with her ex’s girlfriend during his illness and her subsequent self-reflection about being too harsh on her. (22:09)

4. Corporate Climb & Packing Like a Pro

• Career & Packing Secrets: Boz discusses being a high-powered exec and mastering minimalist travel:
  • “You can only pack for each occasion. Like, there's no extras, actually.” (04:32–04:47)
• Bold Fashion: Known for vibrant style, both in business travels and on TV. “I love color. I love outrageous outfits.” (03:44)

5. Reality TV: From Viewer to Housewife

• Longtime Fan: Boz always loved TV as a cultural decoder.
  • “I was stuck to my TV. So I had...I know everything about every TV show. Reality show.” (23:47)
• Casting Journey:
  • Initially shielded by handlers from Bravo offers due to corporate obligations.
  • Misunderstood her own casting as a CMO pitch, not a Housewife spot.
    • “I went to the meeting thinking that's what we're gonna talk about.” (26:08)
    • Memorable Quote: "Why would you want me? I was so confused." (26:47)
  • Decision to join was influenced by seeing successful professionals like Jenna Lyons thrive on RHONY.

6. Love, Dating, and Modern Motherhood

• Starting Fresh in Love: Came onto RHOBH newly dating her now-fiance.
• Open Conversations: Paid close attention to compatibility early-on:
  • "I'm too grown for this. I'm not trying to fall in love and then find out you don't want a kid." (33:10)
• Navigating Fertility at 49:
  • Candid about IVF, fibroid surgery, and taking time before proceeding with more children.
  • “Black maternal health is...a very scary stat. More black women die.” (35:39–35:56)
  • "I've decided to take a break for a moment. We're gonna get through our weddings and then we're gonna pick it up again." (38:05)

7. Friendship, Loyalty, and Housewife Drama

• Friendship Philosophies:
  • “We friend differently.” (47:02)
  • Emphasizes how different friends (and housewives) require different forms of support and rallying, informed by her own experiences with grief, support, and resilience.
• On RHOBH Relationships:
  • Unpacks the Dorit/Kyle dynamic, choosing sides, and why venting is essential to being “real” on reality TV.
    • “If she was to not share her feelings and frustrations, then she would not be doing her job.” (44:13)
  • Authenticity vs. Privacy: She defends castmates’ decisions to share only as much of their lives as they choose (e.g., Kyle’s discretion about her marital tensions):
    • “There are also...be careful about, 'oh, this one’s sharing too much, or that one’s not sharing enough' because of tenure.” (73:18)
• Lessons Learned: Differences in how “rallying” around friends works for Dorit, Kyle, Sutton, Rachel, pointing to the varying degrees of openness and trust within the group.

8. The Business of Being a Housewife

• On Competition & Perception:
  • Discusses Amanda’s comments on online courses and making millions:
    • “We are not the same...Apples and oranges.” (65:40)
  • Sets boundaries—would never disparage a partner for financial gain or comparison.
    • “For me, it wasn’t so much like, oh, do you have the money? It’s like, I just wouldn’t want to disparage my partner.” (67:46)

9. Behind the Scenes: Packing, Reunion Outfits & Real-Life Housewives Tips

• Reunion Style:
  • Heather praises Boz’s gold-accented Ghanaian-designed dress, which Boz highlights as heavy but “stunning.” (41:34)
• Name Changes and Annulment Drama:
  • Delves into Sutton’s annulled marriage, changing names, and the real bureaucracy of it (60:35–62:19).
• Housewife Job Pressure:
  • Boz confirms the pressure of “pulling your weight,” especially for long-tenured Housewives who are expected to continually share every facet of their lives. (72:08–72:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Packing Perfection: "You can only pack for each occasion. There's no extras." — Boz St. John (04:32)
• On Loss & Grief: “It was maybe one of the most devastating things I've ever.” — Boz St. John (12:50)
• Relationships & Boundaries: "We friend differently." — Boz St. John (47:02)
• On the Essence of Love: "The love is the commitment every day to being like, I'm with this person." — Boz St. John (33:57)
• Housewife Candidness: "If she was to not share her feelings and frustrations, then she would not be doing her job." — Heather McDonald (44:13)
• Comparisons and Empowerment: “We are not the same. I don’t know why we would be over here. Apples and oranges.” — Boz St. John (65:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:06 - Boz’s corporate travel and packing secrets
• 06:05 - Childhood and Ghanaian roots
• 09:56 - Political asylum and family faith
• 12:23–14:47 - Story of loss, grief, and strained marriage
• 23:47 - Love of TV and learning American culture
• 26:08–27:55 - Misunderstanding Bravo’s outreach; “I thought they wanted me to be CMO.”
• 32:49–34:00 - On discussing future children early in relationships
• 35:39–38:05 – Fertility journey, black maternal health, IVF
• 41:34 - Reunion dress details
• 44:05–47:02 - Analyzing Dorit and Kyle’s friendship/dynamic
• 47:02 - “We friend differently.”
• 60:35–62:19 - The drama of Sutton’s annulled marriage and name change logistics
• 65:40–67:57 - On online courses, wealth, and partner dynamics
• 72:05–74:09 - Housewives “pulling weight” and authenticity in sharing
• 73:43 – Defending Kyle’s privacy: “She’s shared enough of her life.”

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Flow and Tone

The conversation is intimate, honest, and filled with sharp humor characteristic of Heather’s style. Boz is direct, insightful, and refreshingly open, candidly addressing both personal triumphs and tragedies as well as the unique pressures of reality TV and modern womanhood. The episode weaves serious moments with wit and warmth—offering juicy behind-the-scenes RHOBH context alongside universal advice on relationships, resilience, and friendship.

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Follow Boz

• Instagram: @badassboz (76:25)
• RHOBH, Part 2 & 3 Reunion: More to come!

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Recommendation:
This episode is a must-listen for RHOBH fans, lovers of pop culture, and anyone interested in stories of resilience, ambition, and the nuanced realities of being a modern woman in the public eye.

Transcript

[Bose St. John]

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[Heather McDonald]

I love you so, so, so so much.

[Bose St. John]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Bose St. John]

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[Heather McDonald]

Heather McDonald has got the Juicy scoop.

[Bose St. John]

When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicy Scoot is the show to know.

[Heather McDonald]

She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Segment, cereal data and cereal sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.

[Bose St. John]

Listen in. Listen up. Woo.

[Heather McDonald]

Woo. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. You guys get excited. I have the real housewife, the mother, the fashionista, the, I mean, glamour girl, funny entrepreneur, gives great advice, good friend, the one and only Bose St. John.

[Bose St. John]

Yay.

[Heather McDonald]

Welcome to Juicy Scoop.

[Bose St. John]

Thank you so much. I'm very glad to be here.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm so glad you're here. You're wearing a very sexy outfit.

[Bose St. John]

You think this is sexy?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, but I think it's great. I think it's a great. It's a leather strapless jumpsuit.

[Bose St. John]

Yes. And it's, you know, burgundy or oxblood.

[Heather McDonald]

I love it.

[Bose St. John]

Like the color.

[Heather McDonald]

I like your hair. A lot of like long glam hair

[Bose St. John]

going, oh, girl, that's one thing I love Some hair. And I love a tight outfit.

[Heather McDonald]

I. I mean, you. I don't. I was like, how much do you have to pack?

[Bose St. John]

How much.

[Heather McDonald]

How many suitcases did you have for Italy?

[Bose St. John]

So now here's the thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, by the way, you guys, this is. She's on real houses. Beverly Hills, among the other things. I don't even think I said that in the interview.

[Bose St. John]

I don't think you said that either. We were just gonna get involved.

[Heather McDonald]

Exactly.

[Bose St. John]

Too many things to talk about. Yeah. So for a majority of my adult life in business and my career, I was running in and out of airports, meetings, countries, blah, blah. And you can't be without, like, some luggage. Right. You can't lose luggage. You can't wait for baggage claims. And so I perfected the art of only packing carry ons for a long time. And that's with, like, suits and gowns and three different shoes and hair things and all that stuff.

[Heather McDonald]

And how would you. In a carrier, would you just keep it all in, like, a black and white theme of clothes so, like, everything goes together?

[Bose St. John]

No, actually, I wouldn't. I would. I would pack per the occasion.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

Everybody knows I love color. I love, like, outrageous outfits. And I did that in my corporate life, too, by the way. This is not just, like, a TV thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And actually, I think I might have done a video once about, like, how I pack, because people are always curious about that because I just.

[Heather McDonald]

What's the secret?

[Bose St. John]

Okay. Well, there's two big secrets.

[Heather McDonald]

The biggest thing I hate about travel and doing standup and everything is. Is packing.

[Bose St. John]

Packing, Editing.

[Heather McDonald]

And there's something about when I go on a trip. It's almost like I like to order for a table. And I get very satisfied when everyone is satisfied. And there's, like, not. There's barely any food left over. I love when I go on a trip and I'm like, oh, my God, I wore everything but two things. There's something about, like. But after all these years, I still suck at it.

[Bose St. John]

Well, I think there's one big secret which will make people nervous, which is that you can only pack for each occasion. Like, there's no extras, actually. And that makes people nervous because, like, oh, what if a strap breaks? Or, like, I changed my mind.

[Heather McDonald]

No, you gotta decide.

[Bose St. John]

I'm like, no, you decide. You tack the one thing for the one event, and then the one thing for the one dinner. And, you know, like, you just pack enough for the time you're gonna be gone. No extras, no backups, no whiffs. Oh, what if I feel differently when I get there. I don't do that. Yeah. I pack. And so now I do that. So for Italy, I packed for everything that I knew we were gonna do.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

No extras.

[Heather McDonald]

I also feel like I'd not done that much European travel when we went away a couple years ago. And I was like, why did I bring so much stuff when I could have bought, like, this cheap little yellow dresses, which would have been totally cute for a night out. I. I was doing that feeling like, oh, I need this many dresses for this many nights out. I could have definitely packed less and just bought a few things, by the way.

[Bose St. John]

It's like. I mean. And also, look, I'm a very calendared person also.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

So it's like. I know. It's like, okay, look, we're going to go to dinner at this restaurant. It's outside. It's rooftop. It's inside. It might be cold, whatever. The thing is, I've already understood what's going to happen, so I'm going to pack for that thing.

[Heather McDonald]

So you don't use a stylist or you do?

[Bose St. John]

I do sometimes, but most of the time I style myself.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And so, okay, let's start a little bit with your background. Like, what was your childhood? Briefly, like, and then going to university. Like, where was that all?

[Bose St. John]

Okay. So my parents originally from Ghana in West Africa. My dad came to the US on a Fulbright scholarship. Like, really, one in a hundred million chances, because he didn't go to middle school or high school, didn't go to regular college, and he joined the Navy when he was 18. He was orphaned quite young.

[Heather McDonald]

The Navy in America?

[Bose St. John]

The Navy in Ghana. Oh, yes. But he's a savant, a musical savant. And so he got into the naval band and was playing the clarinet, which he taught himself. Amazing. And he was playing for an American delegation, and one of the diplomats was like, wow, you're so talented. He was first chair, and he's like, you're so talented. Like, you know, where did you learn to play? And my dad was kind of like, nowhere. And he was like, oh, you should come to America and, like, study music. And my dad was like, what do you even mean? And so he told him to apply for the Fulbright, which is a very difficult scholarship to get. And so my dad applied and came to the US and earned two PhDs.

[Heather McDonald]

And when he came, was he single or.

[Bose St. John]

He was single when he came and then had. But he, you know, through friends and family, and he was hooked up with my mother. Okay. And so they decided to get married, and she moved to the US with him. But my dad is a Pan Africanist. Like, he really loves the continent. And so when he was here for school, he knew he wanted to go back. A lot of times what happens to immigrants is they come to the us, the uk, Canada, wherever, and they stay. You know, they're just like, okay, I've made it, so I'm staying here. My dad was like, no, I don't think so. I was born six months before he graduated with his second PhD.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh.

[Bose St. John]

And we went right back to Ghana.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, you did?

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. And so my dad. So even though I was born in the us I do consider myself bicultural because a lot of my formative years were spent on the continent of Africa. And then we finally moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, when I was 12.

[Heather McDonald]

So from six months to 12, you were.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, we moved around. I was in. We were in Nairobi, Kenya, for a while.

[Heather McDonald]

Other languages?

[Bose St. John]

Yes. Yes, of course. Yeah. My. My parents are multilingual. I speak two.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Bose St. John]

And so that. Well, three, technically.

[Heather McDonald]

But what are the three?

[Bose St. John]

They're Ghanaian languages. Tree and Fanti.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. And my mother, only she does not speak to me in English.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, really?

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. Which is hilarious, because when I was 12, I mean, they also, by the way, have always been, like, African. African. So even in Colorado Springs, like, my little white girlfriends would come over there, and my mom would be, like. She'd just speak to them as if they were her children. She would not speak them in English and expect them to respond to her. And she would feed them hot pepper soup and, like, all kinds of, you know, Ghanaian dishes. One of my friends, one of my best friends who actually made an appearance on the Real Housewives, name is Summer. Summer and I became, like, instant friends when we were, like, 14. And summer is exactly what her name sounds like.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, she's blonde, she's got green eyes, she's tall. She was pretty. We're both on cheerleading together. You know, she's a swimmer. Like, Summer is Summer. And her favorite dish is still one of my mother's Ghanaian dishes. And when she comes to visit, I

[Heather McDonald]

mean, hot pepper soup does sound good to me.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God, it's delicious.

[Heather McDonald]

I like stuff like that.

[Bose St. John]

It's delicious.

[Heather McDonald]

And so were you guys religious? Did you belong to any church?

[Bose St. John]

Well, my parents. This is such a complicated story, but my parents believed in native religions for most of their adult lives. But in the early 80s, there was a coup of the political government in Ghana. My dad was serving in the Government. At the time, he was a minister. And the government that took over, or the people who threw the government put all of the ministers in jail, in prison, political detention.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my God.

[Bose St. John]

In fact, this was like, the blip when we came to the US before we moved formally, was that my mom left the country with me, my two younger sisters, and she was pregnant with my last sister, and we came to Washington, D.C. on political asylum.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Bose St. John]

And so in prison. This is my dad's, like, famous story. He says he prayed to God. He was like, look, if you get me out of this prison. Cause they were killing everybody. They were like, if you get me out of this prison and I can reunite with my family, I will become a Christian.

[Heather McDonald]

Wow.

[Bose St. John]

Somehow he was released. He came to the U.S. we all reunited in D.C. and he was like, we are now Christians.

[Heather McDonald]

That's amazing.

[Bose St. John]

And that's how I became a Christian.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. I did not understand all of that backstory, so I'm glad you shared it.

[Bose St. John]

Actually, I don't think I've ever shared that before anywhere.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, well, good. I'm glad. So there you have it. Look at this. My audience will love that, honestly, because it's like, that's so beautiful and interesting. And, you know, when you're not an immigrant, like, I'm not an immigrant, but I have such great respect. My husband's dad came from, like, escaped Czechoslovakia, like, World War II and all that. And their stories just are like.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And the first time I went to his Thanksgiving, and they all did this circle thing as. And thanking. Being American. And I was kind of like, oh, my God. We just used to watch, like.

[Bose St. John]

Like football.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, we watch football, like, twice. And complaining at E. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Bose St. John]

So then after that, they were like

[Heather McDonald]

the teenagers that were like, where. They're like, we're done doing the circle. And I was like, the circle?

[Bose St. John]

That was cute. You're like, the circle.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. So it's like. It's really beautiful.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. Yeah. I think about that a lot.

[Heather McDonald]

So I want to know. So here you are, this corporate woman. You've done all these amazing things when you were married to your husband.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Now he has passed.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And. But were you guys together when he passed, or were you.

[Bose St. John]

You were already separated when he passed. Oh. So what happened is that we got married in 2003, and he wanted a family right away. I really didn't. I was on the corporate track, and I was a hotshot. And I was like, absolutely not. This is Going to slow me down. And so we agree that we wait five years.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Bose St. John]

Into our marriage to try and have a family. Well, five years comes, and I'm like, have another six years. And he's like, absolutely not. So I got pregnant, and unfortunately, I got very ill during my pregnancy. Developed severe preeclampsia, and my daughter passed away. On the day she was born, it was. It's still hard for me to articulate.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

But it was maybe one of the most devastating things I've ever.

[Heather McDonald]

I. I honestly can't imagine.

[Bose St. John]

It's when.

[Heather McDonald]

That's when I've heard people say that because, you know, you go through the entire thing.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God. The anticipation.

[Heather McDonald]

And what then? What do people say? And the whole thing of it is just.

[Bose St. John]

My God.

[Heather McDonald]

So sorry.

[Bose St. John]

It's so, so terrible. And I feel like that might have been the first fracture, you know, in our relationship was Eve's death. Because while he didn't blame me, I felt like he blamed me. And I think that was. I think I made that up, you know?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I mean, the passing of a

[Bose St. John]

child, you feel all kind of guilt.

[Heather McDonald]

That is, like, one of the biggest things. Very few. Very few marriages can survive that. That is, whether it's an accident or the child is ill or.

[Bose St. John]

I now understand that. Yeah, but at the time, all you have is your grief.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, and I also was in a. I think as a part of my grief, I was so desperate to become a mother after having argued for years that I didn't want to have a mother.

[Heather McDonald]

Now you had experienced motherhood?

[Bose St. John]

Because now I had experienced motherhood. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I, I. I must do it. And so I got pregnant three months after Eve had died. And I was miserable the entire pregnancy. One, because I got sick again, and I was terrified. Two, because I had blamed myself and blamed my body for betraying me. And so I wanted to do everything right. Then I went on bed rest at six months pregnant. Like, couldn't go to work, you know, feet up, like, actual bed rest.

[Heather McDonald]

I had a friend that had to do that with her twins. And she said that she did things like what they say that you should do if you're, like, a prisoner of war. Like, you're supposed to have, like, a scheduled thing. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this for two hours. Read a book for two hours. Then I watch one TV show. Then I talk to someone on the phone from three to four because it is so hard, especially. And she was a corporate Woman, too. So it's like, really hard for, like,

[Bose St. John]

it's on top of it. Like, I actually like that analogy a lot. I had not thought of that. Yeah, but it's like, you know, the combined, like, boredom and fear and just irritation, and then your body feels gross. Like everything was awful.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And so I was not a very happy pregnant person. And Peter was also extra vigilant is what I would call it. You know what I mean? Like, don't eat that. You know? Like, don't you think you should sleep a little bit more? Like, you know, maybe we should stand up. No, no, the doctor said I shouldn't stand up. No, stand up for a minute. You've just been sitting all day. You know, so we were doing that. And so on top of the grief of losing Eve, now we're in this, like, high stress pregnancy together.

[Heather McDonald]

Right?

[Bose St. John]

Then Lael is born, and she's a preemie, and so she's in the NICU for, like, I don't know, six weeks. Okay. And we're both insane. I am sitting at the, like, by her bedside or by her incubator from the time I give birth on this hard ass wooden chair, by the way. Oh, Peter has to go back to work. And so what did he do? He was in advertising also, so he has to go back to work. And so I'm sitting there for 12 hours a day. He comes for two hours. You know. Oh, you know, did she come out of the incubator today? How much did she eat? If, you know, we were just da, da, da, da, da. So a year after she was born, we separated. And I was like, I can't do this. I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. But I didn't have the courage to say I wanted a divorce. I wanted him to come to their realization.

[Heather McDonald]

But he did move out.

[Bose St. John]

He did move out. And then I was trying to get him to say, like, I wanted him to initiate the divorce. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be in a relationship. Okay, okay. I'm get a boyfriend. I think you should get a girlfriend. And he's like, no, absolutely not. I'm like, no. But that's what we should do, because let's test it out.

[Heather McDonald]

Let's see.

[Bose St. John]

If we like other people, then we know we shouldn't be together. If maybe we don't like other people, then we get back together. He says, no, no, no. Until I go over there one day to his apartment to drop off layout, and I see an ugly ass pair of Shoes. It belonged to a woman. I'm like, who the hell shoes are these? And I was pissed because.

[Heather McDonald]

But did you have your boyfriend or not?

[Bose St. John]

I sure did.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, good.

[Bose St. John]

That was a total double standard. I had my boyfriend, okay? And he knew about him.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Bose St. John]

And then I go over there and I'm like, wait, so you have a girlfriend? Or like, what the hell's going on? Well, Peter gets sick probably about four months after the discovery of this girlfriend. And by the way, I was trying to work on my own emotions around this thing, and I was. I was actually pretty happy to be like, a sister wife. You know, she and I were getting along, like, you know, she was good with your daughter. She was great with my daughter. She would, you know, take him to the doctor.

[Heather McDonald]

And what was his illness?

[Bose St. John]

He had Burkitt's lymphoma, a cancer. And at first we thought treatable, you know, it's not. You can't operate on it, but radiation and chemo maybe could get rid of it. And we went on like that for probably three months or four months where we were sharing. We were on a group text together, you know, the whole thing. And then came his terminal diagnosis. And that's when I was like, oh, no, no, she gotta go. And I can't do this. Like, I'm gonna be here. If we're gonna face death, we're gonna do it together. Oh, and nobody else is gonna be here but us. And he was very happy with that because he'd been trying to get us back together.

[Heather McDonald]

Anyway, this episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Jones Road Beauty. You guys know how much I've been talking about how much I love Jones Road Beauty Miracle Balm. I mean, I am telling you, on the days that I am not wearing makeup, I put that on. I look like I just had a facial. And look young and gorgeous. Yes, I do, because people tell me. But now I want to tell you they have a new product that I absolutely love. It's their foundation stick. This is Skincare Forward foundation. It delivers buildable, real coverage while feeling completely weightless on your skin. It gives you medium to full coverage without ever looking cakey or. Or heavy, which I know foundation sticks can do that. This will not. It's available in 30 shades to match a wide range of skin tones. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our Juicy scoopers are getting a free gift on their first purchase. When they use code Juicy Scoop at checkout just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Juicy Scoop at checkout. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support Juicy Scoop and tell them Heather McDonald sent you. This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Quince. Quince makes it so easy to refresh your everyday spring looks with pieces that are premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. They're lightweight linen pants. Oh my gosh, I love them. They're so comfortable and they have tops also that start at $30 that are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. I got this great set, this linen set. It was like a little crop top with a matching pant and it looks so chic and so cool and the quality was great. It felt so soft against my skin. Refresh your everyday with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com juicy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com juicy Mother's Day is almost here you guys. Are you a mother? Do you know a mother? Do you have a mother? Most likely one of those is true and you're like what can I do to treat myself? My loved ones? And I want to tell you that is Nutrafol. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. So that really says a lot. And this Mother's Day Nutrafol makes the perfect gift offering targeted hair growth supplements for every stage of motherhood from postpartum to later in life, supporting stronger, visibly thicker hair through it all. I've been using it for well over a year or two now and my hair has got the bounce back. It looks great, it's shiny. This is all my own hair and thanks to Nutrafol. Whether you're gifting to yourself or a loved one, take hair growth off the to do list for a limited time. Nutrafol is offering 25% off the full fullest hair kit that supplements plus their hair serum duo and free self care gifts when you visit nutrafol.com that's nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f

[Bose St. John]

o l.com now in hindsight I was for sure too Harsh on her.

[Heather McDonald]

Have you ever kept in touch with her after his passing?

[Bose St. John]

No, no. She came to his funeral, but I think I was. I was in too dark of a place to recognize at that time that I'd been too harsh with her.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know.

[Heather McDonald]

And was she like your age? Was she your type? Yeah, she was like, did he have a type or was she totally different from you?

[Bose St. John]

He was. She was totally different. This girl was like, you know, freaking a yoga instructor or some shit. You know, like crunchy and all the things. Like, I've, I've been a glam girl my whole life. Yeah, she was very different from me, but I liked her well enough, you know, Like, I thought she was a reasonably wonderful person and she, she took good care of him. But I, I think my compounding grief, the unfairness of it, like everything was just too much and I needed space and I wanted to reconcile our family. I felt guilty. There was just a lot going on.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So he passed what year?

[Bose St. John]

In 2013.

[Heather McDonald]

So then you're now the single. You're a widow, you're a single mom, you're doing all your things and you're always. You're still working full time. Corporate executive at these jobs. What was your relationship with reality tv? Did you watch it? Were you a fan?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I love tv. I have always loved tv. I think part of it came from when I was 12 and we moved to the US you know, because part of the, what I call the education of it was. So many people say that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, they lose culture.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God, that's all you gotta do. Watch some tv.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know what I mean? Watch mtv. You watch the sitcoms, music videos. Like, you'll learn about fashion, you'll learn about culture, you'll learn about athletes. Watch the games, girl. I was stuck to my tv. So I had. Oh, I knew everything. I know everything about every TV show. Reality show.

[Heather McDonald]

So you had watched Real Housewives in Beverly Hills?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, for sure.

[Heather McDonald]

So then how did, how did the casting come about then?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, well, that was a very weird story because apparently they had been trying to get to me for a number of years. But I was a top executive at big companies. There was no way I would have had time to do the show had

[Heather McDonald]

they reached out and you said no or someone said they're going to.

[Bose St. John]

Somebody on my behalf said no. And I don't know, I don't know who that was or how that was.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. How do you feel about that?

[Bose St. John]

I actually feel okay. Like, if they, you know, when you're at that level, you get protected from a lot, you know? You know, because I wonder if the

[Heather McDonald]

person was almost like who the person was. You might know who they are or not. But I was like, well, yeah, because we don't want to lose you.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So I don't want to lose you. But then.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, but the thing is that, like, I couldn't have done it. I mean, they. I don't think they said no, not knowing what I would have said. Okay. You know, so. And it was the right call, because I would have said no. So I'm at that time, so I'm okay that they said no then. But the time when I got the email about this opportunity, I had already retired, you know, from my corporate life. Like, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of it. I'd retired, I'd published my book. I was trying to figure out what to do next. Wasn't sure if I wanted to go back to corporate, because then my ego started to play tricks on me, you know, like, now I'm without a title, and I'm just sitting here. What do I do with the rest of my life? You know?

[Heather McDonald]

And financially, were you very comfortable?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, yeah. I'd done very well in all the companies. And so you're like, I can chill

[Heather McDonald]

for a while or something? Totally.

[Bose St. John]

But I'm not the kind to just sit around. Right. So I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna start my own business. You know, I've always loved hair. I was like, oh, let me go to China. I'll go to the biggest hair show in the world. I went by myself. I, like, did all the research. I built a factory in Ghana. Like, I was, like, doing all kinds of things to start my business. And then I get an email. You know, this is like, hey, we would like to talk to you and Heather. I swear my hand to God, I thought they wanted me to be the cmo. I thought they wanted me to be CMO of, like, Bravo or something. So I went to the meeting thinking that's what we're gonna talk about.

[Heather McDonald]

Really? That's so funny. Cause it wasn't.

[Bose St. John]

The email. Wasn't. Now that I look back at. The email wasn't clear, but I think they thought they were being clear, Right? But it wasn't clear to me, because why would I think anybody want me to be a housewife? You know what I mean? And so I went like, oh, okay, great. So what's. You know, what's happening? You know, what Are the plans? What's the objective? You know, the strategy of the network, the DA and they're answering the questions,

[Heather McDonald]

but they're like, what the fuck is happening?

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. Like, you know, they're kind of like, ooh, they're very. Now I can see through their eyes. They must have thought, this is a weirdo.

[Heather McDonald]

So then when did you realize?

[Bose St. John]

I realized when they said they wanted to come film me at my house with my family.

[Heather McDonald]

And then did you. Do you realize?

[Bose St. John]

I was just like, oh, that's interesting, because here's the thing. There are. There have been other jobs. Like, for instance, my job at Pepsi. You would have to go on route rides with the. With the truck drivers. Right. And go and see how the product is taken off the truck and put into a Walmart or whatever. You know what I mean? Or when I was at Uber, I drove Ubers, you know, to get a better understand.

[Heather McDonald]

To better understand it. Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

So when they said that, I swear to you, I thought, oh, okay, this is like, more just like, to really understand it. To really understand what these women go through. So I was kind of like, okay, great. But there was something in the back of my mind that I was like, this doesn't sound like they're trying. So then I just flat out asked. I was like, is this for, like, a. The marketing job? Like, what. What job is this for? And they looked at me weird. It was like a literally who's on first conversation. They were literally like, we've been talking about you being a housewife. And I was like, is that what we're talking about? I was like, why? Why would you. Why would you want me? I was so confused. But then I was so fascinated. Cause I was like, really? Because when they explained, I mean, look, there's so many different types of women. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

But I think at the end of the day, you can categorize everybody into a big general bucket. But they didn't have a corporate executive outside of Jenna Lyons in New York. Right. And I think at the time, they thought that she had been successful, you know, in that. In her role. And so they were like, we can do it again in Beverly Hills. And how about you?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

So then I was like, oh, my God, but I respect and love Jenna. And so I was like, hmm. Well, she did it. Let me see what this is about. And so then I was like, okay, let's try it. Let's go ahead.

[Heather McDonald]

And, you know, I do think it's. You're in a good position in that you had a girl most of the girls, I've noticed most of the daughters are more open to being on camera than the boys. Cause it's a little more awkward for the boys. Or they're like, what is this? That is a girly show.

[Bose St. John]

Right, right, right.

[Heather McDonald]

So I thought that. And she's beautiful and cute. And the other thing is, you know, you maybe. I don't. In the very beginning, I don't know if you had dated him or you just started to date your now fiance.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah, but I had just started to date him.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I think that's kind of, you know, Even though it's called Housewife and we want to see husbands, I do think there's like, less of a risk when you're coming in without the husband that you've had for a while, where if the cameras had come with your first husband, we would have seen the bickering and all that stuff.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And you know, before you get better, they would see the bickering and then that's exasperated. And then people are like, oh, my God, did you see what he said when he said, you can't have a tuna fish sandwich. Whatever. So I think I've always think what he's saying. But even now.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, even now. Like, because I've been dating. I think we'd been dating like six months or something like that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And I was actually very surprised that he was open to being on the show. Yeah. But at that point, you know, we were deep in very committed conversations, you know, so, yeah, at that point, I think we both knew that. Like, okay, this is the thing. Right, right. And so when he was like, yeah, if you're gonna do it, then I'll do it with you. Like, if that's what you want me to do now. I was like, really? Like, okay, you know, I guess. But what if there's. Cause I already understood the pressure of what public life can do to a relationship. I wasn't ignorant of that.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

And I also want to be careful because he's not necessarily somebody who is looking to be on camera. You know, it wasn't like he was like, oh, yeah, sign me up. Cause I wanna be a real house husband. You know, he wasn't that guy. And so I was like, okay, well, don't worry. Cause you'll sort of just, you know, you'll be in the back somewhere. And every now and again we'll talk about things. But what I was unaware of is how deeply I would go into the things that really do affect both of us. Like our journey to have Another child like our.

[Heather McDonald]

And in doing that, you know, not only are you having to, you know, share it with your close friends and family, and maybe there's judgment there. Like, why are you going for this at your age? Why are you going for this with a man that's not your husband yet?

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

But the audience is weighing in.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah. And that's with so much pressure.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And there. And listen, I mean, I enjoy the show and I like you a lot on it. I will be honest. I was like, I don't know that she should. Like, I can tell you not to have another kid.

[Bose St. John]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

But I was like, well, you know, she is older and this guy. They're not married yet. I understand. But I understand the desire to want to do it one more time.

[Bose St. John]

Yes. So.

[Heather McDonald]

And want to do it at a stage in your life that you can have more time with that child. Well, you know what I mean? Like, your lifestyle is allowed. When you were working mom.

[Bose St. John]

I have more resources.

[Heather McDonald]

I was a working mom. So like I left the house every day and sometimes like, you know, my son is with me now. And we were driving and I go, see, this is where I got up, got off the freeway for Chelsea lately every day. And it was Olympic. Good bunny. And he's like, wow, that was far from house in Woodland Hills. And I'm like, it was far. But I also knew you have that one chance.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And my kids are fine. It's like they, you know, but the guilt and there is that desire that I'm like, oh my God. Like just to go back and like do it again and maybe have a nanny, but not have to go to a 9 to 5 every day or whatever.

[Bose St. John]

So I understand that are very, very different. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

So how did you guys come to the conclusion since you weren't engaged yet? Like, I could see maybe wanting to do it maybe completely on your own. But I also thought as such, like a, you know, a woman that gives such great advice and marketing, there is a risk, you know, that now what if you don't get along with him and now you have to share the child with him versus just being a single mother from the start.

[Bose St. John]

And that's why I was so surprised when people were or the audience was judgmental about me having those conversations before we said, I love you.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, like for me, I was like, oh, no, look, I'm going to clear all of the really big things before I'm like in too deep.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that's a good way.

[Bose St. John]

I want to know because I'm Too grown for this.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

I'm not trying to fall in love and then find out that you don't want a kid or that you, you know, want seven.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Like, I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't.

[Bose St. John]

I don't want to do that. Like, I'm like, let's. Let's talk. Let's have all the hard conversations, and then we understand whether or not we're on the same page, by the way. Not just about a kid, but, like, spiritually, emotionally, financially. Like, I want to have every conversation. People just want to focus on, like, falling in love and, like, the butterflies and, like, all of the, like, sparkly stuff. And I'm like, no, the things that destroy you are those things.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

When you're not on the same page, when you're not equally yoked, that's what actually destroys a marriage, not whether or not somebody falls out of love. You've been married a long time, right? Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, look, the love is not just about the butterflies.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

The love is the commitment every day to being like, I'm with this person.

[Heather McDonald]

And the friendship and, like, do you still like to do fun? Like, can you still talk about fun things?

[Bose St. John]

Can you talk to this person? Are they your closest friend? Are they. Are you intimate, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually with this person? Like, are they going to care for you? And that's what I wanted to understand if we were on the same page about a number of things. And also. And this is the part where my emotions do play a part, which is that I always wanted more children, but I was too afraid. You know, I'd had such terrible.

[Heather McDonald]

You mean after your daughter.

[Bose St. John]

After my.

[Heather McDonald]

And after your first husband passed?

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

You thought about. Did you think about it?

[Bose St. John]

I thought about it. I thought about it.

[Heather McDonald]

Doing it on your own or girl.

[Bose St. John]

I thought about it, and I was too afraid, you know, I was like, first of all, I don't want to put my health at risk. But yet I hadn't talked to any doctors. Yeah. I was just over here diagnosing myself.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

I was like, I don't want to do it without a partner. It's really hard to be a single mom. I was like, I don't know. I'm barely surviving doing the one. I don't know if I can do it with two or three. So I didn't freeze my eggs. I didn't do anything.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

You know, and now, in hindsight, I wish I would have. I wish I would have just moved on. The desire knowing that, like, okay, well, Let me just give myself a chance.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, instead of putting it to bed before I even. You know.

[Heather McDonald]

And where are you with it now?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, well, right now. So my doctors are amazing, and they've.

[Heather McDonald]

And why did you choose a doctor in Las Vegas?

[Bose St. John]

Because she's a black woman who is one of the leading specialists in fertility.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Bose St. John]

You know, black maternal health is. Is a very scary stat. More black women die.

[Heather McDonald]

I know.

[Bose St. John]

That's horrible.

[Heather McDonald]

I can't believe that that's kind of finally come to the forefront of, like, I never was aware of that. That's absolutely horrific.

[Bose St. John]

It's like. It's like two times the numbers.

[Heather McDonald]

That is insane.

[Bose St. John]

It's insane and so sad and horrible and terrifying. So I'm like, look, I already risked my life one time. I'm not trying to do it again. So Dr. Cindy is a Dr. Cindy Duke is wonderful. And so she put me through the battery because, you know, she was like, look, you are healthy enough to carry a child. She's like, I'm 49. I'm almost 50. She's like, you could probably carry baby till you're 56. And I'm like, I don't believe you. Like, what are you talking about, girl? When I tell you I've been to every specialist, like my cardiologist, everybody, done all the blood work, everything to make sure that I'm okay, psychologically, it's a different story. You know, I've obviously had a lot of therapy to manage my grief and all the things, but I hadn't dealt with this in particular, you know, in that, like, I've dealt with the grief of losing Eve. I've dealt with the grief of losing my husband. I've dealt with the scariness of getting into another relationship. Like, I've done those things. I hadn't yet tackled the having another baby, grief and scare. And so I needed to do that work. But at the same time, I was like, well, let me just go ahead and, you know, get. Do my fibroid surgery, which I did on the show. Right. Let me go ahead and get these eggs retrieved. And there's a lot of stress. And, you know, is a. All due respect to the people who go through ivf, because that joint is not easy.

[Heather McDonald]

Had to do it. Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God.

[Heather McDonald]

That she was successful.

[Bose St. John]

Well, I'm so glad.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Because.

[Heather McDonald]

But it was a long time ago. They're like 20. You know, he's 22 now. And then she got pregnant naturally after.

[Bose St. John]

Isn't that wild, by the way, she went through ivf. We're the same age.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And so now she has two toddlers.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

So that's why I'm just like, bitches, I could do it. Look at my girl. She did it. You know, she went through IVF and then got pregnant naturally. Crazy. But anyway, very long story short, I have. I've decided to take a break for a moment. We're gonna get through our weddings and then we're gonna pick it up again. I'm not sure if I will, you know, go through retrieval again, but, you know, there are other options. There's egg donors.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

A number of things. Surrogates. There's, you know. Cause I'm not even sure necessarily that I want to carry the baby. Right. So we'll see.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I mean, why not do. Just do the safest thing for you.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

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[Bose St. John]

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[Bose St. John]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[e-mail] that's o l l y.com and so we. So getting to. Okay, so we're on the reunion. And by the way, I'm not just saying this because you're here, because I put this under some comment. When I saw everyone's dress, I was like, this is the best dress. Thank you. And the best for you and your body and your coloring and your shape and the gold earrings. It was stunning.

[Bose St. John]

Thank you. Really, really good.

[Heather McDonald]

And then I know it was heavy. You probably felt it in your abs the next day, huh?

[Bose St. John]

When you wear heavy arms, even like there was the sound guy had to mic me and had, you know, it's simple. You just put your arm up and they maneuver and dude, it was like 10 seconds. I was like, hey, hey, hey. How quickly can we get this done? Because I was like, can somebody hold my hand for me? Yeah. It was a very, very heavy dress. But my, the designer I work with in Ghana is a complete, like, you know, I think if she could make like, like we're just perfectly matched. Because she is a very understated person but an extravagant designer. So I just let her loose. She would do absolutely craziness. And this was a crazy amount of dress.

[Heather McDonald]

Stunning.

[Bose St. John]

And she flew the dress, you know, from Ghana.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh my gosh, like, amazing. And so here you guys all are.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And I love Jennifer Tilly's.

[Bose St. John]

I thought that was amazing. Oh, Jennifer Tilly's is fantastic.

[Heather McDonald]

I thought it was so fun. I'll be honest. I said I liked yours and Jennifer Tilly's.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I think that's all I said.

[Bose St. John]

Sutton looked really good, though. I thought Sutton looked the best. Sutton looked really.

[Heather McDonald]

Sutton looked really pretty. That was pretty.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But if I'm just. Listen, I've watched this for a long time, and it's. I don't. I think you're sitting on the couch.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

So you have to make sure that, A, you don't have a pooch, B, that you're not wearing a such a challenging kind of silkiness that it gets wrinkly.

[Bose St. John]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

So I do think tight bodice beading works really, actually really well. It's uncomfortable, but I think that's the way to go structure for, like. For a reunion look. Okay, so let's get into it. The show, basically, this season, it was really dorit feeling that she's being criticized and whatnot. And PK Just did an interview that came out, and I listened to most of it, and he comes off. He's a nice, likable guy. He comes off humble, tells her about his life. But when he kind of said, well, I wish you wouldn't have done it so publicly. Here's the thing. If you're on a reality show and you're being real, any woman going through a divorce, especially one that takes more than one season of a TV show, most don't. You are going to vent to your girlfriends.

[Bose St. John]

Absolutely.

[Heather McDonald]

So if she was to not share her feelings and frustrations, then she would not be doing her job, and she wouldn't be.

[Bose St. John]

And she'd be criticized for that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, right. Exactly. And it's like, you're getting divorced for a reason.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, I actually had Natalie on.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And I. And, you know, I was like, I want to know, like, what. How is it to be like, the. Basically in it, but not really in it, you know, and. And she was very interesting, and she just said, you know, I'm like, how's your divorce? She's like, it's fine, but we're getting divorced. Like, we're getting married. I mean, nobody has. And I kind of thought when she said. When Doritos said to Kyle, like, I hope that it's nice forever, but this interesting situation you have with Mauricio. And I get why no one wants to bite the bullet. Multiple homes, kids all this. And also just, like, who wants to even clean out a drawer, let alone move and split shit and split businesses and multiple homes? I get all that. So I think. But I also think Kyle was trying to, you know, was also being nice. But I think, yeah, in the end, you gotta choose your girlfriend.

[Bose St. John]

Yes, you do. You really do.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And that's where I found myself. In a conundrum. Yes. Right. Because I believe multiple things can be true at one time. And Dorit and I, even though, you know, you didn't see a lot of it, we got into quite a bit of conflict over it. Oh, you did? Yeah. Because I would defend Kyle.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, I would say, like, she cares about you, and Dorit doesn't believe it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

But I was like, hey, look, there are certain things that she's doing that to me prove that she cares.

[Heather McDonald]

I agree, too.

[Bose St. John]

She may not be right. Because I don't hold the same opinion with Kyle about whether or not Dorit should talk about PK I think she should. I think she should do whatever the hell she wants to do. She's a grown woman. Let her talk if she wants to. Kyle does not believe that, but doesn't mean that I don't think she cares about Dorit.

[Heather McDonald]

No. And then Dorit had a good point when she's like, you said I was being erratic. Darling. Baby, you said I was being erratic. And I'm like, well, again, Kyle is doing her job.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

We've all been with girlfriends, and we do talk behind each other's backs. It doesn't mean it's malicious.

[Bose St. John]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

It means, okay, hey.

[Bose St. John]

Right, Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Are you getting the feeling that she's just. Should not be, like, rolling like this and talking and spending this kind of. So I'm like, yeah, she's being honest, too. You would have said that.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. And also, like, I felt that, like. And I think I said this. I don't know if it made it or not, so you tell me if it did. But I said, you know, kyle and I friend differently. Right. Which is also okay. Like, that we don't have to be the same type of friend.

[Heather McDonald]

I kind of love that expression. Have you ever said that before?

[Bose St. John]

I've never said that.

[Heather McDonald]

We friend differently is, like, very. It's kind of genius.

[Bose St. John]

Okay, well, that's good. Let's keep that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, it's very interesting. You know, And.

[Bose St. John]

And, yeah, and you should have.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And I've said this for, like, years, because I'm like, women, you know, will be so supportive Kick him to the curb. Here. Done with him. You know, get rid of your husband and. Who was your dad of your three kids? Him. But then you're like, I can't believe that you and Jenny aren't friends anymore. What the Is wrong? Like, sometimes friendships are like a marriage without the sex.

[Bose St. John]

Yes. Yes. And sometimes. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

It can't last forever.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God. For sure.

[Heather McDonald]

Sometimes it has seasons and it has breakups.

[Bose St. John]

Sometimes it ends, and it can't, and you can't.

[Heather McDonald]

Just like a couple that can't get back to regularly having sex and being loving. Sometimes a friendship that's so close on the phone five times a day has a break, and they can get back to a place, but it's not ever gonna be the place of the constant calling you every time I got in the car type of friend, you know?

[Bose St. John]

Right. And that's what I really. I think at the end of the day, what I would love for them is just peace.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, civility. It's like, you won't get back to where you were. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And by the way, I called it during my first season, I think we were, like, two weeks in, where I was just like, oh, y' all don't trust each other. That's what's going on here. And then somebody pulled me to the side and was just like, you kind of got to let them talk. I was like, oh, okay. Let me just. Let me relax. Let me not diagnose.

[Heather McDonald]

Was that weird?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, was when you first enter?

[Heather McDonald]

Because I feel like with Natalie, it was like. Because she really wasn't part of it, and she, like, came later in the season.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

If you were at a dinner party where you didn't know anybody, and that's her personality, to kind of sit back.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But you're a little bit like me.

[Bose St. John]

And I would be, oh, I'm jumping right in there.

[Heather McDonald]

I would be jumping right in.

[Bose St. John]

In the middle.

[Heather McDonald]

And they'd be like, hold on, baby. Wait till you learn more.

[Bose St. John]

You don't know anything.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, but you're like, okay, but like.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, but Also, I've had 25 years.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

Of having to mediate quickly.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

You know what I mean? Like, that's what I do for a living. Like, I. You know, you can't have conflict in the workplace, because when you do, it costs money.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And so I am very practiced, however, in this situation, I had to learn to just sit back.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

And be like, okay, let them figure it out for themselves.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

Let them argue. Let them figure out their differences.

[Heather McDonald]

And Then what's really interesting and sad is they weren't just two girlfriends that met on a TV show. They had a fun foursome.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

With the fun. I know.

[Bose St. John]

With the husbands.

[Heather McDonald]

And like, they're. That one scene that they laughed at. You know, Erica's ex husband, Tom Girardi. Are they divorced?

[Bose St. John]

I don't think they're divorced.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, him. And when he was. When she had that famous scene where she's like, Tom got across it, rolled down the hill, got his eye falling out, whatever that whole story was. And PK's like, you know, what do you mean? They operated on the ankle. You go for the head. He's a lawyer.

[Bose St. John]

He's not a fucking soccer player.

[Heather McDonald]

And they're all like, laughing, laughing, crying, laughing. That scene is what is so sad about where that.

[Bose St. John]

Yes. About where they're.

[Heather McDonald]

Marriages are not what they are. That they'll never be.

[Bose St. John]

The friendships are.

[Heather McDonald]

And then the friendships. Because Kyle is still friendly with Mauricio. So they know she's hearing the sides of, you know, and that's really hard because it's always like. Especially when it's like, custody and, you know, is someone a good dad or, you know, did he. Did she really keep the kids from him? Or was there an. Was it supposed to be Saturday morning at 9 and she wasn't back from. From coffee yet? And then it's like, you're not at the door, like.

[Bose St. John]

Right. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Those stories. I mean, it's so bad.

[Bose St. John]

Very, very complicated. Friend that's lived through it or been

[Heather McDonald]

through it ourselves with the exchanges. Let's exchange the police department because you said I threw a baby blanket at you.

[Bose St. John]

Like, it's just. It's miserable. It is miserable.

[Heather McDonald]

And then, you know, so I don't know. I, like, I see where it's at, and I get how she kind of got to this, like, fuck it place.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. You know, very clear to me. Yeah, it's very, very clear because she has felt like, hey, look, these women have known me a long time. They should have my back, like, point blank period.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

You know, I don't want to hear his side and look at it from this angle. And let's place devil advocate. I don't want to hear any of that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And she's. Maybe in a year she'll be willing to hear that. But right now, she's in white hot anger.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

And you kind of just let. Need to let her burn. You know, it's like, look. But also, again, this is why you friend differently. I am that friend that if you're having a problem with somebody, you probably want to call me.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Because I'm going to be the one who's like, drop their location right now. Let's go over there. I'm not the friend you call if you want to be soothed and like, oh, no, just forgive him.

[Heather McDonald]

Let's play devil's advocate. Sometimes I'm like, listen, my sister is my best friend, and she is a criminal defense attorney. And sometimes I have to now, in our friendship and sisterhood, go, I'm just gonna bitch. And I actually don't wanna hear the other side.

[Bose St. John]

I don't want the other side.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't wanna hear the other side. I just want. I just want you to just. I just need to vent. And she'll do the same to me, you know?

[Bose St. John]

And I'll be the friend who's gonna be like. And then what he do? I'm that asshole. You know what I mean? Like, because also I. I feel it. Like, I feel it from my girl. And I wanna make sure that, like, I'm looking at the situation through her eyes. And so there are different friends who do it differently. And that is fantastic. You probably do need to call her so she can tell you to calm your ass down. Don't call me. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

And I mean, you know, And Pete Caven goes, oh, a lot of things aren't true. And, you know, a lot of things he says this in it, you know, were from.

[Bose St. John]

Are you doing his accent right?

[Heather McDonald]

I'm not. I'm half doing it, but it's just. I'm thinking about it, but, like, I won't do it. Cause, you know, I just like, no, but he was saying, like, you know, oh, some things aren't real. And production, you know, pushes for things and all that. And we haven't seen their whole marriage. And it seems to me she has revealed that they got to that place where they were both saying pretty below the belt type of stuff, which is very hard to come from, come back from. Yeah, but also when someone's like, well, I like pk. He's always been nice to me. I always go, yeah, there's busboys all over Beverly Hills that said OJ Was the nicest guy in the world. We all know it. We all know it. I'm not. I'm not comparing PK to OJ But. I know, but I'm saying, what? Your relationship with someone as a friend, as a businessman, whatever, is never going to be the same as someone has as an intimate partner who was married and raised Kids. We do. Every marriage is different. And you don't know what she said to him that made it a point of no return or whatever. And so I think that that's what's so hard about getting divorced and figuring out who's gonna pay for what.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. But at the end of the day, you need your friends.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

To me, that's where we can no longer have a conversation.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

And, like, you need your friends. Everybody rally. You know? And honestly, because every marriage is different, and therefore every divorce is different. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You cannot compare.

[Bose St. John]

You need different rallies. You know, Kyle wants her very intimate circle, and she won't reveal anything to anybody who's not in that. And that's what I had to learn. Right. In my first season. Cause I did feel like she was cold, but I had to learn that, like, oh. Because she's not gonna reveal anything to me, you know? Whereas, like, I was comparing her to Dorit. Dorit's out here telling me all of her business, you know?

[Heather McDonald]

You know, when I first met Kyle years ago, like, at parties and things like that, I've been interviewing housewives for years. I thought she was a little aloof. And then she came on the show, and she was just one of my favorite interviews. So it's like, I think just sometimes people. And people say I'm sometimes, you know, a little, like, you know, a little dismissive. And I'm like, well, I'm sorry if I was distracted. Like, there's things like that where it can. So sometimes it's good that you, you know.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Took some time and kind of get for what her qualities are and everything.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. And also getting to know each other better. I think Kyle is for sure somebody who needs to get to know you. I think she's been around the business a long time. She's been around a lot of different type of people a long time. She needs to build trust first, you know? And I'm now okay with that. Right. Yeah. Where I didn't understand that in the beginning. And so we're in a very different place in our friendship. However, with Dorit, it was totally different. Right. Within the first two minutes, she was telling me all the business that was going on with PK and so I was like, oh, okay. Look, the way we need to rally around Dorit is different from the way we need to rally around Kyle.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

And now different from the way we need to rally around Rachel and her divorce. Different from the way we need a rally around Sutton as her marriage is annulled. You know, it's like, yeah, that was,

[Heather McDonald]

like, the most horrible thing of all.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, my God, awful.

[Heather McDonald]

And he's, like, dating her ex friend.

[Bose St. John]

I can't even see. And that's. That's what I'm telling you.

[Heather McDonald]

I would have been like, you should

[Bose St. John]

not tell me that kind of stuff, because I would be like, where is she at? Let's go over there now. Okay. Even when Kyle and I weren't, like, super chummy, I mean, we said it on the show where I saw Mo at fricking Soho House in Malibu, and he was there with the. With the woman that he'd been photographed with. Look, Kyle and I weren't, like, talking, talking, talking. I called her immediately, and I was like, girl, you want me to push him into the ocean? What would you like me to do? And then when I got home, I gave her a six minute voice note. Give her the play by play of

[Heather McDonald]

what she was wearing. That's what she wanted.

[Bose St. John]

You know what I'm saying?

[Heather McDonald]

You want to know what she was wearing, what they ate?

[Bose St. John]

I am that friend. And so I'm like, but it is different for everybody, right? And even to the point about Sutton, like, I didn't know anything about the annulment or whatnot. And so when we met up after last summer and she said that this had happened, oh, I immediately was just like, girl, what? Who would do that? What kind of person?

[Heather McDonald]

You know, we try to do something. I didn't like it because as a Catholic, I know how hard it is to get something annulled. And it made me think, with his power and connections, it made me go, hmm, I don't really like that. That seems a little fishy to me.

[Bose St. John]

Well, I met the Pope. Oh, like the new Pope. The new Pope.

[Heather McDonald]

Pope.

[Bose St. John]

Chicago. The Chicago Pope. I was at the Vatican during Holy Week.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my gosh.

[Bose St. John]

And I was like, sutton, you want me to talk to him about this annulment? What would you like me to tell Pope Leo?

[Heather McDonald]

Wait, how did you meet the Pope?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, it was great. It was great. So my friend Georges Rapiere, who owns Villa Bibbiani, which is where I took the girls in Tuscany, you know, he has all the connections everywhere over in Tuscany. And we were there for Holy Week. Cause it was spring break. And I was like, oh, my God, it'd be great to have Easter at the Vatican. And so Stefano, who runs the villa and the vineyards, was like, oh, yeah, we have a connection to the Vatican. You want me to see if you can go? And I was like, oh, yeah, get us an audience and so we had, you know, the opportunity to go to mass. And then at the very last minute, here comes the invitation to, like, meet the Pope and talk to him. And I was like, wait, do you

[Heather McDonald]

have a photo with me?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But I wasn't on your Instagram.

[Bose St. John]

Yes, it was. I did a whole, like, I saw

[Heather McDonald]

you in your Easter outfit. Oh, but I was only on the groom.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah. Well, I have a. What's that one? Oh, yeah, yeah, keep going. I do. I think it's.

[Heather McDonald]

I didn't take every one, though.

[Bose St. John]

You didn't? Okay. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I'll throw it up in there.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. Well, me and Papa. Oh, I wrote him a letter, girl. I hand wrote it.

[Heather McDonald]

So. Well, what do you think? How do you think that he got that annulment?

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Not that it was a Pope doing it, but I'm just saying there has

[Bose St. John]

to be some type of connection. But, I mean, it's too hard.

[Heather McDonald]

Kids who also went to Catholic.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. It's too hard to get to the Pope, first of all. I mean, I see that it's kind of like. But it's very difficult to get to the Pope. It is hard to undo a marriage within the Catholic Church. I just. I don't know how he did it. All I know is that it took a lot of effort and was quite intentional.

[Heather McDonald]

And is he doing that because he wants to marry this friend of hers?

[Bose St. John]

Because you can't.

[Heather McDonald]

You can't get married married in the church.

[Bose St. John]

It has to be an oath. Yeah. So that's what I would assume. How would you go through all that trouble unless you wanted to get married?

[Heather McDonald]

And also that you were. That you're with a woman that feels that. Or maybe he did, too. To feel that strongly about that. The second marriage be in the church, like, I'd be. Most people are just like, that's cool. Like, it's. We're going to get married on the beach.

[Bose St. John]

Let's get married in a garden.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bose St. John]

But like, no, homegirl said, yeah, I need to be your only wife in the eyes of God. Who. I want to know who this girl is. I'm telling you, I am looking for her.

[Heather McDonald]

I know. I was kind of like, how are people? Like, I would be bringing that up at every luncheon. I would be like, what is going on?

[Bose St. John]

Now? See, here's the thing.

[Heather McDonald]

I know they don't use everything, obviously. No, no, no.

[Bose St. John]

But also, I promise you, I would have said it if I had known during our filming that it was her friend or a former friend. I promise You. I would have asked, because that is just too much not to ask about. And then it was just like, wait. I mean, the annulment was one thing. And then after we got through that, I was like, okay, so now you're Sutton Brown. All right, I guess we'll see.

[Heather McDonald]

Does it really mean she can't call Sutton Strike?

[Bose St. John]

I think legally, she probably. I don't think she has to, but I think she's.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I had a real ID, and it took me five times a DMV because I'm Heather McDonald Tobias, and I, like, had. Was always missing something. And so I just saw someone said a tweet to me because I talked about it, and they're like, this person goes, I'm going to get my California real id. I brought my mother's placenta. And, like, I was like, it's, like, crazy. So I'm like, I don't think anyone's going to make her legally change.

[Bose St. John]

No one can make you legally change. But you know what I think. And obviously, I have not talked to him about this. This is just conjecture on my own, but I think it would be very hard for me to keep somebody's name who didn't want me to have it.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

You know what I'm saying? I'd be like, you went through all that trouble.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Then I'm not keeping it. You know what I mean? Screw you.

[Heather McDonald]

He's a personality now. So it's like. It's like when I was married, got married, I already had been on a TV show and, like, had an agent. So I'm like, it's Heather McDonald. My husband was like, whatever you want to do. And then when I was pregnant with my son, I had this weird idea that, like, what if I was in the emergency room or how to go to the hospital with him? And they were like, that's not your kid. Which would never happen, by the way.

[Bose St. John]

I thought the same.

[Heather McDonald]

So then I just added Dobias.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And so then. But I, like, half the credit cards at Heather McDonald had the. The passport says Heather McDonald, but the license says Heather McDonald Tobias. So it's like a big rat, honestly.

[Bose St. John]

So I'm like, I'm thinking about a lot about this lately, so I'm fascinated.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I don't think it's worth it to change your name.

[Bose St. John]

Oh.

[Heather McDonald]

You can still be called the. What's your husband's Watson. You can still be the Watson's Christmas card. You can still call yourself the Watson, but to legally go through it, I don't Think it's worth it.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, so fascinating.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I don't think it's worth it.

[Bose St. John]

It's like, girl. But then I have the complication of feeling like I haven't really made my decision.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, your name is really good.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, it is.

[Heather McDonald]

And I thought the same way about Heather McDonald. I was like, Heather McDonald is a really good name.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But my.

[Bose St. John]

Is McDonald your maiden name?

[Heather McDonald]

That's my maiden name. And like, but nobody, like, he. No one would have cared. And I do. I'll say, where the Tobias is at the country club, like, whatever. And then. But you know, sometimes I'm like, throw the McDonald around, you know, like. Cause I'm like, It's kind of McDonald Dibias.

[Bose St. John]

Cause people know that you have to

[Heather McDonald]

get a table or something.

[Bose St. John]

No one knows. Yeah, throw your weight around, girl. I love that. Absolutely. I champion that idea.

[Heather McDonald]

But I think it's just. I just think it's a pain in the ass.

[Bose St. John]

But that's why I was just like, you know, what if she wants to changes to brown and she don't want to be associated? Her kids are grown. It's like, you might as well.

[Heather McDonald]

She looked gorgeous this season.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like her hair and makeup and everything.

[Bose St. John]

She did a great job.

[Heather McDonald]

And now Amanda. Let's talk about Amanda.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

I really loved that you explained on the end of the first part one of the reviews.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, yes. About.

[Heather McDonald]

Because I kind of was like when she said, hey, you're coming after me, you know, in her confession, whatever. Because you too had an online course. And I was like, look, Oprah has an online course. There's master classes. There's, you know, there's all this Ron Howard, right? There's script writing classes. There's all that kind of stuff that isn't like a negative thing. And I've defended her because I'm like, hey, listen, yeah, she has created something. It makes money and all that stuff. So I thought you explained it really, really well.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then when it went back to it and saw the clip, it did make sense that you were like, it doesn't make money. It's not a money making. It's not meant to be this big thing that people buy into and continue to pay up and up and up and up. And then they might become a coach themselves.

[Bose St. John]

Right, right, right. But I think the thing that bothered me, because I wouldn't have been bothered with her misunderstanding what I said until she turned it into a negative in order to compare us, you know, that's what rubbed me the wrong Way, like, I was just like, wait, hold on. You took something I said, Which I. By the way, when we were in the vineyard, I thought we were having a great moment, because I thought, oh, here we go. Here's some understanding about what you do and what I do. It was actually the very first time where I was just like, oh, this is a breakthrough. Like, I think I better understand what you're doing, and I'll tell you what I'm doing, you know? But then she turned, like, after we were done filming, she just turned it into, like, this negative dig, like, to be like, oh, I'm jealous of her because I'm losing business on my online courses and she's a millionaire. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Why would you say that? I was like, you know, that we don't do the same thing. And by the way, like, to your point, Oprah has online courses and Ron Howard has online. Everybody got a goddamn online course. It doesn't mean that's the same center of what they do. And it is the center of what she does. And so I understand why. That's her whole world, right? But for me, it is not. I'm like, girl, if we were to compare the list of the things I have going on and have had going on compared to what I do online to help other people, girl, this is not even the conversation, right?

[Heather McDonald]

As a little thing to do.

[Bose St. John]

It's not. And so I was bothered by the comparison because I was like, we are not the same. I don't know why we would be over here. Apples and oranges.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean. And then when, you know, and I do think it was. I got. I see both sides. When she was like, I am proud that it was my millions that bought this house. I know she bought it out, right? Good for her. And you want to say that. And while. But they were like, yeah, but that's a little bit, you know, rude to your husband and all of that. And I got. I got. I was so glad that then Sutton said, I would have been hurt if my husband, as I'm holding a baby, said, I bought this house. It was with my money, with my company, and it's the same kind of thing. And then jokingly, I'm like, well, if your husband makes the same amount that you make in a month, he makes in a year, why don't you give him the course for free

[Bose St. John]

manifest? I should have thought of that. That is a fantastic. Can he have a discount?

[Heather McDonald]

Is there a special Mother's Day special?

[Bose St. John]

You know what that is a Father's Day special. Why hasn't he manifested more money? That's very. That is actually a fascinating question. I mean, I had not thought of that. But you know what? Here's the thing. I thought. Look, during that conversation, I really didn't say anything, cuz I just felt like everybody else was jumping in. And there's enough of the, like, oh, Bose versus Amanda thing where I'm just like, first of all, everybody versus as Amanda. But, okay, So I was like, all right, y', all, take this one. But the point to be made wasn't about whether or not this is, like, women's empowerment. Okay? I can run around saying I've made a gazillion dollars and I can do everything I want to as well, but I would never disparage Keeley because I don't want his. I wouldn't want to disparage my partner. You know, like, for me, it wasn't so much like, oh, do you have the money? And can you prove that, like, you are an independent woman? It's like, I just wouldn't want to disparage my partner. And I. I just feel like that you wouldn't want that if you were a woman.

[Heather McDonald]

You wouldn't.

[Bose St. John]

You wouldn't want that if you're a man. So I'm like, well, maybe you should think about how he feels when you say things like that. And. But she did admit that, like, he didn't necessarily like it.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. I mean, I don't think anybody would. It is hard, even in this day and age when the woman is the main breadwinner. Or maybe you do the business together. In my case, we have a business together, but I am the face of it, you know? Like, I do these things. So it's like. Yeah, it's not fun. Yeah, it's. It's a hard. It's a hard thing for a couple to manage when the woman makes more than the man. It's just a fact. And certainly one way I do not think it's helpful, which is what Eric and J Said is saying it over

[Bose St. John]

and over, over and over and over again. Like, I mean, my God, maybe say it once. I don't. That's the problem is, like, you don't say it a thousand times. I just don't. I just don't know that you do that. Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine what the pillow talk is like.

[Heather McDonald]

Listen, I. I can't. You know, I was able to buy this house, you know, by my. By myself. Like, I didn't need his money or whatever, you know, or even someone that's like, we didn't need my parents money for the down payment, whatever, the same type of thing. That's okay. And I get that, you know, but she came on the show, she was doing the Bethenny Frankel way of putting skinny girl everywhere, you know, of her manifesting business and. Cause she was smart. She was probably like, listen, if this was my one season, yeah, I'm gonna make it work enough out of it.

[Bose St. John]

Totally, totally.

[Heather McDonald]

And I also kind of felt for her when she. When they were like, yeah, but you told the cameraman, zoom in on this Chanel backpack, which is like, Sutton's got, you know, 20 of those that she gave to her.

[Bose St. John]

I didn't know.

[Heather McDonald]

To her gardener last week. Like, she's like, cleaning out her closet. Like, that's nothing. But I kind of felt she was like. Well, I thought that was what she was like, I think in her mind. Yes. But she was also most maybe being, like, naively helpful, like, oh, I do have a good bag, if you want

[Bose St. John]

to, like, you give her too much credit. No, no, no. I think. I mean, but she said it, which is that, like, she wanted to keep up with the Joneses because she thought that's what the show was like. Everybody show off what they have. The difference is nuance.

[Heather McDonald]

Right?

[Bose St. John]

You know, and taste and tone. Because, like, of course you want to showcase what you're wearing. We all love that. Like, whenever we walk into seeing somebody at a dinner or whatever, we'd be like, oh, my God, you look amazing. How many times did we ask Jennifer, what do you have on? Right. You know what I mean? Like, of course you do that. But it's also not Jennifer being like, look at what I have on my body, and it's $100 million worth.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, a couple more questions.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Now, I've been watching the shows for years, and there is that element of where someone feels that their castmate, because it is a job, is a not showing up as much. She's been. You know, Dorit's been criticized for taking smoking breaks, which I kind of thought was interesting, because I remember that at my first corporate job, I was like, should I just pretend that I'm a smoker just to, like, go out 15 minutes? Yeah, they're smoking to leave. But also, Erica, you know, was like, alluded to Dorit. Like, I shared with you about this DV situation, and it seemed like maybe there was a moment where Dorit's like, you better bring that up on camera. You better give us something. Now, I am going to interpret it one way in that Dorit, I think, was being a friend, because we don't see Erica's son. We don't see Erica's new boyfriend. We don't. We don't really see much of her life. If she was sharing her son and her boyfriend, we would see the two of them meet. Wouldn't that be interesting? I would love to have seen the cop meet GI Joe. No, I would love to see the cop's girlfriend. He doesn't have to. And I'm not saying that she should. That's her kid. But if you have this other thing happen. We don't. We never knew that you had this other boyfriend because we never saw this other part of your life.

[Bose St. John]

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So it's like. Like, I wonder. You share so much. We see your daughter, we see your journey. I mean, is that something that sometimes among housewives, it's like, I feel like I'm pulling the weight and somebody else kind of isn't.

[Bose St. John]

I think it's probably about tenure than anything.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Bose St. John]

Because I don't feel that way just because everything is brand new.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Bose St. John]

And everything is a shiny penny. So I'm always looking around like, ooh, tell me more about that and tell me where. Like, I feel like I'm in a lot of discovery.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Bose St. John]

Whereas maybe somebody like Dorit or Kyle or anybody else, Sutton. Maybe feel like, oh, well, I have to come season after season and tell new things and, like, you know, divulge my entire insides. Otherwise, you know, it's gonna seem as if I'm not pulling my weight. And why do I have to do this? And you don't have to. I mean, I've heard that argument a lot. I don't necessarily feel that. Just. Cause I don't think I have enough tenure to feel that pressure. Right. But I'm focused on my life.

[Heather McDonald]

But you're saying that does kind of exist.

[Bose St. John]

Ye.

[Heather McDonald]

That exists.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, for sure.

[Heather McDonald]

And I can see. And I can see why. And I love that. And I loved Erica's honesty about DJing is easier than performing, and I love it.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah. And, yeah, she's gonna DJ my wedding.

[Heather McDonald]

I. I mean, I love that too, but I was also like, you know, maybe she wants to just be a guest.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, what, at my wedding, you mean? Yeah. Oh, my God. She probably does. She's probably like, why, I gotta come work.

[Heather McDonald]

No, this is what you should do. Have your regular.

[Bose St. John]

Oh, I am. I am.

[Heather McDonald]

And then she just Comes.

[Bose St. John]

She's gonna do a little something. Yeah, exactly. I don't want her to do all of that, but I do think that, look, there are also. I think we gotta also, like, you know, be careful about, oh, this one's sharing too much, or that one's not sharing enough because of tenure. There's a long time. And so I don't agree. When people say, like, oh, Kyle isn't sharing enough, I'm like, that girl's been on the show 15 fucking years.

[Heather McDonald]

I agree.

[Bose St. John]

She shared enough of her life. If she decides that she doesn't want to share this particular part, okay, she doesn't want to do something else.

[Heather McDonald]

She wants to see the person's name. We know who the person is.

[Bose St. John]

And by the way, I already saw

[Heather McDonald]

the person the previous season, and maybe

[Bose St. John]

then they changed their mind. By the way, I'm like, hey, look, she is allowed. And then if she decides, like, hey, look, because I'm not sharing this, I can't be on the show anymore. That is her call. That's her decision. Meanwhile, I'm focused on my life.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And whatever that relationship is with Morgan Wade, who just started a podcast, is doing another TV show. She doesn't leave a private life. She's a big musician. They might just be friends. They might have always just been friends. Doesn't really matter. But, yeah, I think that was interesting to watch. And I felt like I was never like, give me more. I was like, this is juicy. This is good. This is interesting.

[Bose St. John]

I mean, by the way, whatever it is, I think the tension of her and Mo is so interesting to me. I know maybe people want more. When I. By the way, when I met him, like, for the first. Cause, of course, I saw him at Soho House, and we had talked about him a bunch. And so, like, I said, I had my. I was team Kyle, right. Even though she and I were not particularly close. But I was like, look, it's us against him, you know? And then I met him, and I was like, yo, this guy's got aura. Yeah, he's really charming. And so then I told Dorit. I don't think it made the edit, but I told Dorit. I was like, yo, if I ever meet PK and he charms me, I'm sorry, I apologize ahead of time because, I don't know, I'm like, mo is kind of. Mo is kind of cool.

[Heather McDonald]

I've met him a bunch of times. He's always very nice. He's great. He's fun.

[Bose St. John]

He's like, great. I understand.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And it's kind of cute to see how she. When she does now we see her, like, get a visible ick sometimes. That's kind of funny because he's like, you know, like.

[Bose St. John]

And then she's like, you know what?

[Heather McDonald]

Now that you. She's kind of out of it. She, like, still has like. She said they were their friends, they're friendly. But it is kind of funny how she's like, we'll roll her eyes and be like, whatever, dude.

[Bose St. John]

Well, she talks about at reunion. She talks about this time that I think they were in Aspen or something, and he was, you know, he was going around the party as if she wasn't there and how it made her feel. And I was like, oh, girl.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I think it's a very hard thing to balance and be in the public eye.

[Bose St. John]

And be in the public eye and then you don't have any clear lines of demarcation, you know, like, that would be an impossible situation. So, I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

It'll be interesting. Well, I loved that you came. Thank you so much.

[Bose St. John]

It's glad to be here.

[Heather McDonald]

If you are not following her, you're crazy. So tell everybody where they can follow you and anything they want to get from you.

[Bose St. John]

I'm the badassbose on Instagram, so you can find me everywhere with that. But mostly I live on Instagram and I'm so excited.

[Heather McDonald]

We still have part two.

[Bose St. John]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

This. Yeah, we'll. We'll erase. You'll have seen part two. And then we still have three.

[Bose St. John]

Yeah, part three.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Bose St. John]

Thanks. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.

[Heather McDonald]

Please, for the love of everything good

[Bose St. John]

in this world, stop with Mint.

[Heather McDonald]

You can get premium wireless for just 15amonth.

[Bose St. John]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway.

[Heather McDonald]

Give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].