Celebrity BFF Breakups, Cancelled Stars and Crisis PR

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

Episode: Celebrity BFF Breakups, Cancelled Stars and Crisis PR

Release Date: March 5, 2026
Guests: Heather McDonald (Host), Ashley Hansen (PR/Crisis Management Expert)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Heather McDonald is joined by crisis PR strategist Ashley Hansen for a deep dive into the most explosive and controversial topics gripping pop culture. The pair tackle everything from reality star feuds and public cancellation to how celebrities manage (or mishandle) their PR in times of crisis. With candid storytelling, professional advice, and plenty of insider perspective, the episode serves up a juicy analysis of famous scandals, friendships gone awry, and the ever-evolving etiquette of celebrity apologies.

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Key Discussions & Insights

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I. Lisa Rinna vs. Sutton: Body Shaming & Housewife Drama

[02:52 – 15:45]

• Context: Lisa Rinna’s book release ignites controversy with harsh comments about fellow Real Housewives star Sutton Stracke.
• Body Shaming in Reality TV: Heather and Ashley discuss Rinna’s pattern of saying shocking things for attention, including body-centric jabs.
  • Heather recalls being similarly shamed by Rinna on TV:

    “She was just trying to be her, like, weird self... she said, 'well, for one thing, Heather McDonald has a terrible body.'” – Heather [06:22]

• Double Standards: Both hosts highlight how critique isn’t just reserved for heavier women; women with any ‘distinct’ body type face body shaming.
  • “If we’re all gonna be up in arms about one kind of body shaming, then we should be mad about it all.” – Heather [12:08]
• Crisis PR Advice:
  • Ashley advises that Sutton should ideally not respond at all (“If she responds, she’s gonna give credence to it.” [10:18]), allowing the Internet to rally in her defense.
  • Heather suggests, if responding, to keep it light and self-accepting:

    "Yeah, this is my body. And you know what? I’m healthy…I can play tennis, I can play pickleball. If it’s not the shape of body that turns you on, Lisa Rinna, okay, didn’t know you were looking at me to be sexy for you.” – Heather [10:47]

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II. Call Her Daddy Breakup: The Aftermath & Female Friendships

[17:00 – 32:48]

• Origins Recapped: Heather recounts the split between podcast stars Alex Cooper and Sophia Franklin, highlighting the massive business implications and personal drama.
  • The show's break sparks intense fandom division and lingering curiosity:

    “There was hate because we're mad that the two of you broke up... taking sides." – Heather [18:55]

• Sophia’s Book Timing: Ashley notes, “The only thing about letting something go for too long is if the world sort of feels like it’s over, then you're like, why are you bringing this up again?" [20:40]
• Creative Partnerships & Contracts:
  • Both recommend clear upfront agreements to avoid personal and business mess ("You need to have all that conversation." – Heather [23:00])
• PR Response Planning:
  • Ashley suggests if Sophia’s memoir lobs accusations, Alex Cooper should issue a gracious, neutral statement (acknowledge, don’t escalate).
• Why Female Friendship Breakups Hit Different:
  • “Women are more interested in knowing why a long term girlfriend friendship broke up than why you left your husband,” Heather [28:10]; the emotional intimacy and vulnerability make these splits especially public and poignant.

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III. Cancel Culture & Comebacks

A) Colton Underwood – From Bachelor Bad Press to Gay Icon

[36:38 – 43:28]

• Scandal Recap: Issues after his uptick in reality TV gigs—his stalkerish behavior with ex-fiancee Cassie re-emerges, drawing criticism.
• Public Forgiveness:
  • “We forgave him because everybody knows someone who is gay and couldn’t be honest early in their life… For some reason, everybody just said, well, then we excuse your weird behavior to this girl." – Heather [38:40]
• PR Perspective:
  • Ashley emphasizes “If he did fully, at some point, did address it, just let it go.” [41:05] and urges Colton to focus on new chapters of his life to reshape his narrative.

B) HGTV Host’s Racial Slur Fallout

[44:42 – 47:15]

• Incident: A hot mic captures a host uttering the N-word, leading to swift cancellation.
• Crisis Response Advice:
  • “She needs to go away. She needs to probably educate herself, understand why that word came out… and revisit it.” – Ashley [46:46]
  • Both cite Stassi Schroeder’s slow, deliberate comeback as a model: authentic education, real contrition, and time are essential for reinvention.

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IV. Navigating “Sticky” Public Family Dynamics

A) The Beckhams & Nicola Peltz

[50:59 – 61:43]

• Tense In-Law Relationships: The Beckhams’ ongoing friction with son Brooklyn’s wife Nicola Peltz plays out on the world stage.
• Public Statements – Good or Bad?:
  • Ashley warns about public statements airing family grievances: “When you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms…” [56:58]
  • The mom’s role: Stay involved and welcoming to avoid orphaning a child in a strained marriage (Kris Jenner example: [53:13]).
• David Beckham’s Masterclass in Media Response:
  • “Children are allowed to make mistakes, and parents sometimes have to let that happen.” – David Beckham, quoted approvingly by Ashley as “Brilliant. Like, no notes. Genius.” [61:27]

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V. Royals, Reputation, and Damage Limitation

[61:46 – 66:13]

• Prince Andrew & Royal Reputation:
  • After years of scandal, quick moves to strip him of titles/residence are seen as smart risk management:

    “I think he did do the right things by removing that at a time before the public got to know everything.” – Ashley [64:49]

  • The hosts muse about future adaptations of these scandals (“There’s a whole other series waiting for this last past chapter…” [65:49])

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VI. The Myth of Celebrity Privacy: The Case of John F. Kennedy Jr. & Carolyn Bessette

[66:39 – 74:25]

• Mystique vs. Accessibility:
  • Minimal media access to Carolyn Bessette sparked added mystique and tabloid frenzy (“If you don’t tell your story, somebody else will.” – Ashley [73:14])
  • Reflection on modern celebrity: Will a true social media-free “quiet luxury” class emerge?

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VII. Armie Hammer, “Cancel Podcasts,” and Cultural Amnesia

[75:09 – 79:19]

• The Scandal’s Rise & Fall:
  • Massive curiosity about the “cannibal” rumors quickly evaporated as Armie Hammer faded from the screen.
  • Both hosts believe true stardom is likely out of reach (“He’ll never be at that movie star, like, status that he was…” – Heather [77:29]), but return in a new medium is possible.
  • Ashley: If he “gives people a reason to care… then maybe there’s a chance.” [78:59]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Women are more interested in knowing why a long term girlfriend friendship broke up than why you left your husband.” – Heather [28:10]
• “If you don’t tell your story, somebody else will.” – Ashley [73:14]
• “Children are allowed to make mistakes, and that parents sometimes have to let that happen.” – David Beckham (quoted by Ashley) [61:26]
• “She needs to go away… She needs to probably educate herself, understand why that word came out of her mouth, and revisit it.” – Ashley, on public racist snafus [46:46]
• “I think he can survive… he can still make a tremendous living just from doing stuff on social media and online.” – Ashley, on Colton Underwood’s future [42:40]
• “If he did fully, at some point, did address it, just let it go. I don’t think it’s worth—you know, I think he’d be better off finding other mediums to showcase more of who he is” – Ashley, on handling past scandals [41:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Lisa Rinna/Sutton/Body Shaming: [02:52 – 15:45]
• Call Her Daddy Breakup & Female Friendship Dynamics: [17:00 – 32:48]
• Colton Underwood, Traitors, and PR Comebacks: [36:38 – 43:28]
• HGTV Star & Cancel Culture Advice: [44:42 – 47:15]
• Parental Estrangement: The Beckhams/PR Lessons: [50:59 – 61:43]
• Royal Family, Prince Andrew Crisis: [61:46 – 66:13]
• Carolyn Bessette & the Price of Privacy: [66:39 – 74:25]
• Armie Hammer and the Cannibal Scandal Fade-out: [75:09 – 79:19]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Juicy Scoop expertly weaves professional media strategy with Heather McDonald’s signature humor and honesty, offering listeners unprecedented insight into the world of celebrity feuds, scandals, and comeback attempts. Chock-full of practical crisis management advice, emotional intelligence, and inside scoops, it’s a compelling guide for anyone fascinated by fame—and fallibility.

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(This summary omits ad reads and outro segments, focusing exclusively on content-rich discussions and expert insights.)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

[e-mail] Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.

[B]

When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr.

[A]

Segment, cereal data and Cereal sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.

[B]

Listen in, listen up.

[A]

Woo woo. Hannah McDonald juicy scoop hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, we have a great show for you. We get into so many hot topics and but before we get there, I just want to remind you I will be doing stand up comedy for shows in Salt Lake City March 20th and 21st. Four shows at Wiseguys Comedy Club. Go to heathermcdallin.net get your tickets. Also, as you may or may not heard, there's been big news in the Bravo world as far as Real Housewives of New York City city. They are bringing Carol Radziwell, friend of Juicy Scoop, has been on many times and was part of the original Real Housewives of New York cast. They're only saving three of the of the girls from the last couple years which is Aaron, Sy and Jessel. They're bringing back Carol, Roswell and three new people, one which is quite controversial and those I will give you my thoughts, my thoughts about Carol, my thoughts about what I think this show will work and so many more of my controversial takes and opinions on Friday's Patreon. If you've not joined my Patreon yet, I don't know what you're doing with your life but you go to heathermcdall.net and you can join there and there's all these different options but it's every Friday commercial free. You go back 1100 episodes or whatever it is and listen to every single one of them and binge it and have a blast. All right you guys, I'm very excited for you to hear this interview I did. We get into PR crisis and so much more and we cover many current hot topics. So here we go with my show. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm so excited to talk to my guest today. Welcome Ashley Hansen. We met through a mutual Friend. But what's so interesting about your career in entertainment is that you've really worked in all facets of primary strategy, crisis, pr. And so I thought we could just talk about some topics and things and how would you counsel the person to get into it? So ready? Get right into it. Okay. This is from Biwig. Hello, Drama. Because they were reading Lisa Rinna's book that just came out, and someone sent this to me earlier today, too. I'm not surprised that she would do this because it's her personality, but she wrote, I'm happy to drag Sutton, who is the co star of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, with her. She's frumpy, there's no sex appeal about her whatsoever, and she's got a weird body, so God bless her. As someone who watches the Real Housewives, I don't even remember Sutton and Rinna even having any issues.

[B]

Rinna brought Sutton in, and then at one point, there was something about an Elton John party. Do you remember?

[A]

Right. That's the beef.

[B]

And then Sutton was like, I paid for you and Harry to go. And she's like, that's not true. And then it became.

[A]

I remember. Okay, so it was the Elton John Oscar thing for the charity. And she. Yeah, Sutton, I think Sutton is wealthy. I think she was going to these things. But Lisa Rinna, being a star, was able to to go to charity events in Hollywood for free for years. And therefore, I think she was the housewife. And Sutton invited her, and I don't think she ever even thought to offer to pay or anything. She was just like, I'm a star. I'm at your table. And now you're on Real Housewives. You're welcome. And then when Sutton revealed that she was like, okay, that's what I think happened. She was like, okay, don't make me look like I pay my phone bill. Like, enough.

[B]

Agreed. And I also think the way that these tables work, as you know, is like one person will buy or a studio will buy, and then they can give out those tickets. So you're not paying for individual seats once somebody's bought a table. So obviously, I think Sutton bought that table and then decided to put a number on those two seats when probably from Lisa's experience, she's like, I get invited to these things, like you said.

[A]

Right. And those Hollywood charity events, like, I have been given free tickets to those things as well. They want press from it, which I give press with the podcast. But also, you know, they want a certain number of celebrities because the people that are not celebrities that bought tickets.

[B]

That's why.

[A]

That's part of the appeal. And, you know, so, yeah, maybe you're not paying the $500 ticket, but then also you might buy the auction item for, you know, $10,000. But getting back to just going on her body, I saw this, and I was like, oh, my God. Because a very similar thing has happened to me.

[B]

To you? Somebody said it to you or you said about somebody?

[A]

No. So I was looking for it. I cannot find the exact video, but I haven't looked very hard. When I was at Chelsea lately, I distinctly remember she went on Watch what Happens Live, and there was video of the after show. And at that time, we were fine. I was on the show. But the whole vibe of the show was, like, picking and bullying and making fun of people, right? So. So the caller called and said something like, why are you. Why are you mean to Heather? Or something. Like, why do you. Something about me? Heather?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she goes. And I remember, like, watching with everybody, and I was like, this is so weird, but at the time, she was my boss, you know, so I'm like, I'm not going to say something, but, like, basically what she said was just like. She was just trying to be her, like, weird self. And she said, well, for one thing, Heather McDonald has a terrible body. And Andy's like, what? And then she went on to say some other, like, weird, quirky thing, and then that was, like, it. And I remember sitting in Jen Kirkman's office and people. And we're all watching it, and I was like, okay. Like, I mean, did she get backlash for it? No. Back then, nobody really.

[B]

It was like.

[A]

Nobody was, like, cutting clips and saying anything. They were. That's why we got away with the stuff we did on Chelsea lady for so long. But I just remember going. I mean, first of all, you don't.

[B]

Not that.

[A]

No, it doesn't matter. You know, everyone. Everybody is different. You know, like. And, you know, Sutton has her distinct figure. I think she looks good in clothes. She's, you know, thin and was a former ballet dancer. And other people have a curvy body. Other people have a fake ass. Other people are stick skinny. It's just, like. It's such a weird thing to say. But my body was always, like, just something to kind of make fun of. They'd say, like, long boobs, and I didn't have long boobs, but it came out of, like, a sketch and all this kind of stuff, and there was nothing I could say about it. And I was just like, reading this today, and I was like, what if I would have just gone into her office and been like, what the fuck?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know. But that just wasn't. We had this. The dynamic was set from the top, and that was just something that you just were like, oh, obviously she doesn't mean it. It's just a joke. But to, like, put it in writing, have five editors and be like. But I feel like that's what she wants. I think she wrote this whole book to have sound bites or whatever and have people talk about it. So, like, I find her very entertaining. I'm not surprised that she would bash someone's body when, you know, which is weird, when her own daughters have been accused of body shaming as far as, like, being too thin and this and that.

[B]

And people actually criticized her on some seasons about her figure and her weight. I just think, like, you know, the joy or what used to be the joy in watching those shows, it was less about them being mean and more really just about the trials and tribulations of female friendship. Sometimes you're in, sometimes you're out. Sometimes. Yes, you get upset, and then you talk to your other friend, and then there's, like, relatable chaos. Because I feel like we all have some degree of that. Maybe without all the extreme wealth in some cases, but it's. Didn't Arinda say, like, say it? No.

[A]

Write it, regret it, say it, forget it, write it, regret it.

[B]

Yes. There's a difference, I think, in sometimes. You know, obviously, this is how we think through things when we have to decide, is it going to be a statement? Is it going to be somebody talking on video when they have to, like, deal with something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What you may get away with or what she might have gotten away with in a confessional is very different than how this reads.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that maybe, you know, in writing the book, she's expressing herself the way she might have on the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe even up. Up it to some degree for the purposes that you mentioned, for clickbait or whatever reason.

[A]

Yeah. I think she's definitely like, oh, I'm gonna talk about, oh, I'm gonna burn down the bridge, baby. I've got nothing to fucking lose. And she actually doesn't have anything to lose, so I don't know, but I

[B]

think it's in poor taste.

[A]

What would you advise Sutton to do in a situation like this?

[B]

She doesn't say anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She says if she responds, she's gonna give credence to it.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

It'll get her more attention and get the whole thing more attention. I think if it's me in that situation and somebody makes a comment on my body, I would like it to not go as far as humanly possible.

[A]

So her see, like, for me, like, now, if that was in some book right now, I would absolutely use it to my advantage.

[B]

I think she would.

[A]

And at this point, I would be like. I'd be like, yeah, this is my body. And you know what? I'm healthy. I'm so grateful that I haven't been plagued with any kind of cancer. I can play tennis, I can play pickleball. I can run around, I can dance. If it's not the shape of body that turns you on, Lisa Rinna, who's been accused of having a weird marriage and whatnot. Okay. Didn't know you were looking at me to be sexy for you. I would have made it. I'd make it like a joke and put something back out there. Cause I'm like, you've already brought me into it, so I might as well ride the wave of the press too.

[B]

I also think in terms of response, it's like, I think you're better built to get into that kind of dialogue. Whereas I feel like Sutton isn't as comfortable in moments of confrontation.

[A]

It's just the body shaming. Because it's like, I know that Emily from OC has been very much body shamed. Heather from Heather Gay has been body shamed, you know, for just being a fuller, you know, different body than your typical size 2 girl. But I don't think that people realize the body shaming that goes on with bodies that are not where you get body shamed because they. You have a unique shape.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and it's like. Or you are too thin, or you like to be thin or whatever. And then people poke at that, and it's just kind of like, no, if we're all gonna be up in arms about one kind of body shaming, then we should be mad about it all, you know, and be like, that's just not cool.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

When we're all aging women, like, look, Lisa Wren has been blessed with being. Having an incredible figure well into her 60s.

[B]

That seems sort of effortless.

[A]

Very effortless, very genetic. And one time I was trying. We were trying out for this talk show, I think that didn't go. And people were in the room just like, how do you keep that figure? Type of thing? And she goes, you know, actually, I don't enjoy eating. I really don't. I don't love it. I'm not that person that's like a foodie that likes to eat. It's like, an inconvenience in my life. Okay, well, then that's really nice. Cause you brought Krispy Kremes, and I fucking had a donut. So I think it's great if you have automatic Ozempic brain since you were born and you never had to think about. Good for you.

[B]

Yeah. I will say something, because I've definitely struggled with my weight throughout the years, but the most infuriating thing I have found is when you'll see a model and they're like, oh, I just ate a cheeseburger right before this show. And it's like, maybe you did. It's hard to believe that that would be the case. Because even if I would say, if I was any shape, I'm not gonna eat a lot before I do any kind of appearance for the sake of, like, you know, bloating or wherever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it just. It's so unrelatable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Like, it just drives a further wedge

[A]

or it's trying to be that I'm so relatable.

[B]

Like, but you're not.

[A]

I just like a cheeseburger. Yeah. Like, what? It was just whatever. I mean. So I think that's interesting.

[B]

I do think Sutton will benefit, though, if she does remain mum on this. I think she will have the Internet on her side.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And sometimes in situations like this, I would say way better for the Internet and people to come to her defense than her even having to say it herself. It's always better.

[A]

Yeah. I think that if you were to say anything, you don't go after Lisa. You don't talk about her body or her weight issues or the fact that she says mean things for shock value. What I think you would say is, I am so. Because when people criticize my looks and stuff, I'll be like, you know what? Could you take it up with my two dead parents in heaven? Because they made me and this is their nose combo. And, like, ugh, you should be pissed at them. You should be really mad at them. Because I'm just like, what are you supposed to do? Like, what am I supposed to do? And, like, so I. And we all get it. You're not special. Like, I'm not acting like, oh, I'm getting more hate than the next person. Anybody that has, like, more than 300 followers probably have gotten some weird hate troll. But, like, I think the thing to say is just to be like, I am so grateful. Yeah. That these legs work, that I can dance, that I'm this age, that I'm, that my doctor's happy with my weight, that I'm happy with it. Like, you know, glad you, you know, and not even be like, not even one snarky thing. Not even like good luck with your book. Just something like, oh, oh my gosh. You know, I love my body and it's not weird to me. Sorry it was weird to you.

[B]

Definitely approach it from a place of strength and confidence, you know.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, agreed.

[A]

So I think it's great. I don't know. Now, how do you feel about timing? And I think it's kind of smart timing that she let several years pass.

[B]

Yeah, I think in a. In. I see that point. I think in this case, you know, great that she's doing it. I think the title is also amazing and really catchy and Daddy Issues, I think.

[A]

Oh, daddy issues, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I love a great title, but I. The only thing about letting something go for too long is if the world sort of feels like it's over,

[A]

then

[B]

you're like, why are you bringing this up again?

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

But in this case, I think Alex is, obviously, she's incredibly successful. She's done really well for herself, and I do think she got the brunt of the split. Yeah. Because, you know, Alex wanted to keep going so that they would ultimately, I think, get the IP for the show. They had one more year or something, and so that has to be really painful. But on top of that, when you. Whether you've been wronged or you don't get along with somebody anymore and you have to watch them skyrocket.

[A]

See, that's why I think this is juicy.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

It's always like, I wanna know what happened that day, but I also wanna hear, like, where you mentally were six months later. And then. And then, you know, whatever. Three years after it happened, I thought things were great, and then I had to open my phone. She made $120 million. Serious XM deal. And you're like, I have a beautiful home. I'm doing better than 99.9% of the other podcasters. But my partner, and from what I recall, I wasn't like, a big listener of the show, is it was Sophia that made the expression, I'm unwell, which is now the brand, the drink, the sweats are in target. And that she was more the comedic one. But then Alex was the one that I also think did the heavy lifting because she actually knew how to edit and do all that type of work. So I see both sides and how they met organically and became such good friends and everything. And when I talked to Sophia all. All the way back, then I go, look, it's very hard. I've said this. I'm like, as more podcasts begin, there's probably just as many Hollywood podcast host breakups as there are real Hollywood marriages. Because it's a really hard thing to keep going. And my advice to friends that started is just have a really clear understanding, even if it's just a contract that you put together yourself of, like, if one of us doesn't want to do it, who keeps the name or the name goes separate or whatever the case is. And how do we work out how much work Each person does. You know, you need to have all that conversation.

[B]

But even when it comes down to language.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I think sometimes people forget in contracts what would have been really smart, and maybe they had it at some point or if they got into litigation. But, like, you can write into contracts early on if we ever split, essentially.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is what the line is. And you hold that line or I hold that line, and if we don't, we're on the hook for it. Right. There's some sort of a penalty.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think, you know, sometimes comms, and especially in times of crisis, people think about it as an afterthought.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Instead of doing, like, a full risk assessment up front, which I think in this case would have probably prevented some of the messiness or the unbalance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do think people are interested. Like, you know, also, what happened between her and Alix Earle, there was, like, mystery around that. So she's had two fallouts now. So I do think. Even though.

[A]

And then I also think that's unfair, too, to assume that, you know, it's a common denominator. Because my theory about the Alix Earle thing is I think that Alex Cooper does take podcasting seriously.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

And I think she picked up this influencer that is so fun to watch and so great on the Instagram and the TikTok. Alex Earle. And I don't know the answer, but I'm wondering if the people were not choosing to listen to Alex Earle for an hour. Yes. They'll watch you for 90 seconds, put your outfit together while your boyfriend stands in the back. But that's a whole. That's why a lot of influencers, the podcasting doesn't work, because can you talk for an hour and a half, week after week and still tell fresh stories? And, you know, and so maybe there was a little bit of like, you need to do this, this, and this. And she's like, hey, this is too much. I'm making $10 million a year on doing Instagram and commercials. I don't need to be told by you how to change it. And I just don't wanna do it anymore.

[B]

Yeah. It could just have been a bad.

[A]

Or she started to read negative comments, which is like, I think another reason why movie stars and influencers leave podcasting, because when they were doing movies and stuff, they didn't have this direct. Your voice is annoying. You said the same thing twice. Why did you know? And they just are like, this isn't for me mentally. This is not where I wanna be. So it could have been something. It could have been something way juicier than that, or it could have been something like that. We just don't know. And then they both knew. Legally, we're not gonna bash each other. And Alex, now being in this world for a while, kind of knows, I think, to be like, can we make an agreement that we don't? Now, do you think that Alex Cooper cares that this book is coming out?

[B]

I think so, yeah. I would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, anytime you like. If you have a friendship that breaks up or anything like. Or maybe at least I do, it's sort of like, what are they gonna tell people about me? I think when you get to know somebody and you have vulnerabilities, I think

[A]

if I was Alex Cooper, I would not mention this till the book comes out.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

I would then get an advance copy from somebody. And if there's. Obviously, it's gonna be her perspective, obviously, it's not gonna make Alex look like the greatest girlfriend in the world.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

But then with that, if I was to say anything, I'd either not say anything or I'd just say, you know, I think it's really great. Everyone has a right to tell their story, to write their memoir. It's not how I remember it. These are not the way I remember the conversations. But, you know, she's so successful, and so am I, and we shared a chapter of our lives together, and it just like a marriage, it didn't last forever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what I would say.

[B]

I think that I don't see anything wrong with that kind of a response. I think it will ultimately come down to what are the types of things that are included.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If it's like he said, she said kind of arguments.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If Alex enters that chat like, nobody's ever gonna win because you're gonna take the side of whoever you like better.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But if there's any sort of strong allegations or, you know, she did X or Y, that would actually cause any sort of reputational damage to Alex, then I do think a response to your point of sort of taking the high road of just acknowledging the time, like, it was good while it lasted. I still respect you. I think you have every right to be a creative and speak your mind and do your thing and just leave it there, because it'll go back and forth.

[A]

I think it's also just like. I think this is a fascinating subject of adult female relationships that don't last, which is why the Housewives franchise and why women are just. Women are more interested in knowing why a long term girlfriend friendship broke up than why you left your husband. Like, it is more interesting because it's like, well, because you weren't fucking then you should have been able to stay friends forever like sisters.

[B]

That's a really good point.

[A]

And it's like, but if it's a father of your three kids, women are like, kick him to the curb. Who cares? You know, they're not going, no, you should make this work out. No, they're like, no, he's awful. But if it's a friend, it's like, well, could you. And just sometimes it's mutual and sometimes it's just like, I look fondly on the time we spent together, but I maybe don't miss you in my life day to day, you know, Or I do. Like, it will be interesting how intimate she gets on her feelings. Like, does she say, yeah, I saw the photos of Alex's wedding and yeah, it made me sad not to be there. It made me not like those type of things where you're like, I wouldn't expect to be. I'm fine where I am. But when I see it, does it. And I see, oh, in the corner is, you know, a mutual friend of ours and we used to fucking laugh in our 800 square foot apartment and you know, wonder if we were ever gonna make it. Like, I think that's where it's like intriguing. And I hope, yeah, I hope when the book comes out, if she just got the deal, meaning I don't know if she's written it or not, but I hope if she listens to this, I think those are the things that people want to like hear the most and will make it the most successful book.

[B]

She did say she was like, it took me this long. Cause I had to like let go of a lot of ego to like face this. I think from a perspective of.

[A]

And time really does heal all wounds

[B]

and give perspective and yes.

[A]

And there's, you know, that's why people are like, don't send that email at 2am or that text. Like maybe write it, maybe think about it, maybe put it in your notes, see how you feel two days later. Maybe read it to somebody like, you know.

[B]

Yeah. I also wonder if it's because, you know, for better or worse, there's this always subtext that women, I absolutely think that they should. But you're supposed to lift each other up and you're supposed to like be together and do things together and not harm each other and root for one another and you know, ignore natural things like jealousy and, you know, and when. That's sort of an impossible standard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think when two women don't end up, you know, or they. Their friendship ends up fracturing, you know, for the sake of vulnerabilities and the fact that as women, we know how much. When you're close to somebody, again, you divulge, you share, you, you know, explore certain things that you wouldn't necessarily do that. When there's a break, it has to feel a little bit like betrayal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think as consumers or of people, that when we watch and we love friendships together, we sort of feel betrayed by the break as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we want to believe that, like. No, friendships like that, actually, they can work. They should work. So you kind of are. It leaves you curious as to what went wrong.

[A]

Yeah. And you may never, you know, so it's like, I think people will be definitely excited to write, and then, of course, that won't be the whole book. But unfortunately, when people do books like this, you're like, you get the book. And it's like, so my mother came from Italy and my father came from. And you're like, okay, okay. And then it's like. And then I took the kickball back, and that's when I knew I was a badass little girl. And you're like, okay, she's only eight. Okay, Keep going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay. We lost the virginity. Okay. Okay. Now this is getting kind of. Okay, now it's getting too scary. And then I met Alex.

[B]

And you're like, okay.

[A]

And then. So it's like. I mean, I wrote a memoir, and I did have the editor say, let's start it at 18.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had like. And I wish I knew where those pages were, because they were probably pretty good. And I don't remember what stories they cut, but I was like, I hear you. The book is called you'll never blue ball in this town again. Let's get to the dating. That's what it should be. You know, no one cares. You know, everyone thinks their own heritage is super interesting, but it's really not to someone else. Like what village your grandpa came from.

[B]

They want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They want an exploration into essentially what they know, but not too deep away from what they care.

[A]

For this episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by. Hellofresh, guys. I actually do like cooking at home. What I don't like is not knowing what I'm gonna make. That's what I love about hellofresh, because it really brings the joy of cooking back into my life. You can choose from over 100 recipes every week which include cuisines from all around the world. And now there's three times the seafood. For no upcharge. You can impress guests and treat yourself with new grass fed steaks like ribeyes. Oh yum. I absolutely love it. And of course you can get your seasonal produce like pears and apples and asparagus all from HelloFresh. I love HelloFresh and I know that you will too. Go to HelloFresh.com juicy scoop10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free ZWelling knife which is $144.99 value on your third box. Offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as discount on the first box. New subscribers only varies by plan Guys, I want to tell you about Philo because Philo offers an affordable way to stream live and on demand TV and enjoy premium apps. For just $33 a month when you sign up at Philo TV and for a limited time only if you subscribe today, you will get $8 off the first month. I mean this includes over 70 live channels including fan favorites like BET, Discovery, VH1, Food Network, Nickelodeon, Lifetime, Hallmark, Paramount and more. Also, Philo has no long contracts so once you sign up you're free to cancel anytime. You know I love TLC with 90 Day Fiance, Sister Wives, Lifetime, Life After Lockup, Dance moms. All of it is there and so easy to watch. Love Philo's where all the best TV comes together. Sign up at Philo TV and enjoy $8 off your first month. This exclusive limited time offer won't last long and you won't want to miss out. So Colton Underwood, the famous bachelor who then eventually came out as a gay man, he was in Traders. We are recording this before I see the Traders reunion. However, we've seen a scene where he gets upset and leaves and Lisa Run is like oh, you better believe I'm going to talk about it. And brings up the fact that he obviously was a weirdo and made his fiance Cassie from the show's life a nightmare. What is your opinion of him or advice to him in this situation now that it got brought up again? I mean the thing is people do forget about this stuff. Yes, the majority of people forget. They're like oh cool, Colton's on Traitors. He already did a show about like Virgins on an island. I don't think it was a big hit, but he's already. He already had his other so he came out with a companion series about it about coming out. He then Got married and I think they have a child. And then he did this co hosted this dating thing about like older virgins. And now we got this. I think people had forgotten they had accepted that he is a gay married man, father, who's a cute guy, who's a personality. And some people are just like, oh, I see that cultured guy. Some people forget that he was ever a. You just like, forget. And to this to be brought up in the traitor's thing, first by Michael Rapaport, which then he was criticized for because he was like, if someone can keep a secret, it's the person who kept their secret of their sexuality for, you know, 20. He didn't say. He never even said that. But if someone could keep a secret, I think it's you. Which that show is just pointing at everything. And then he took that on and was like, oh, because I lived in pain for 27 years, not truly being myself. You're homophobic. And then people, 99% of the people were on Michael Rapoport's side though, they were happy to see him go because he was annoying. But what do you think about this bubbling up again? And how do you even rectify that situation?

[B]

I think just to go back to the Lisa part of this, it's like, it's no different than. Remember when she was like, were people doing coke in your bathroom?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Yeah. Those are her iconic sayings. Yeah.

[B]

And yes, they're icon. And I think what she said to him at some point, I do think it'll. I mean, none of this is a situation to laugh about, but I guess neither is drug use. When you're a mother of two kids, these things have repercussions. When you say things like that in the way that they're said in that public forum, things do tend to stick. I think I will say I didn't watch the Bachelor, so I was not introduced to him at that point. I did not know about the issue with the woman that he was dating or engaged dating or I don't know.

[A]

No, they were engaged, they were engaged. And then she broke up with him and that's when he put the tracker on her car. And then she had to get a restraining order. And he also harassed her, sending her horrible texts and her family members texts for a year from anonymous numbers. And then he also was like, I'm getting threatening texts too. And the whole time it was him.

[B]

So here's.

[A]

So he did like a catfish thing on himself.

[B]

The only thing that I feel like,

[A]

which is really fucking weird, let's just find ourselves. That's weird.

[B]

But something about this is giving. Like, I feel like if he could have addressed it, like, fully and head

[A]

on back then I think he did. And that's why he got a free,

[B]

like, with a full explanation of what happened.

[A]

I mean, I'm sure there's some statement somewhere where he's like, I was going through a time. What happened was we forgave him because everybody knows someone who is gay and couldn't be honest early in their life. So when he is like, this is it. For some reason, everybody just said, well, then we excuse your weird behavior to this girl. And the girl is beautiful. So people aren't like, well, her life sucks. She already met somebody else and got married. So I think people are like, she's fine.

[B]

She's fine.

[A]

So he still did all that, and I guess he had good agents and the show went and people wanted to see it. And, I mean, I think he's gonna keep getting work. What are you gonna do? You just have to say, he probably will be like, I already addressed it.

[B]

I think if he did address it, that's fine. I know, like, at the time when. Cause I watch Traitors religiously.

[A]

I love Traders.

[B]

I desperately want to be on the civilian one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I totally get out right away. I remember looking it up and I was like, this isn't a full picture. Whatever it was or however it was addressed was not, like, what you would need to do in that situation to sort of free himself of it. That road was not taken. Which in my opinion, just, again, from situations that I've been in similar to this. Maybe there is some sort of agreement of what he can and cannot talk about, or she can. Has she ever spoken up the girlfriend?

[A]

No. I mean, I think she's living, you know, a pretty private life now. But, no, I mean, the story was. I remember it. It was just like. It was, you know, shocking. It was awful. And when it was first happening, we just thought he was a weird straight guy who's, like, stalking his girlfriend who doesn't want to be with him anymore. And then I feel like when we found out he was gay, I feel like women are, like, so forgiving and supportive of someone. They're like, oh, so that's why he acted so awful and was so possessive and weird and scary. And it's like, well, that really shouldn't. Sure, you can forgive people, whatever. But I mean, it's just interesting that, like, a guy that does that gets all these passes, more opportunities and everything, but he is cute and he is kind of fun to watch on tv. And so, like, I can also see why he keeps getting work.

[B]

Yeah. I think at the. You know, sometimes with people, like, I think Colton, again, there's a likability about him. I think when people want to like somebody and that person messes up or disappoints, they will. If there is an excuse to be given, they will latch onto it and move on because they like that person. They still want to see them. They want to engage in their world, whatever it is. If somebody does not have that kind of a reputation or is not of interest or has a. Had a really hard time in the media per se, the opposite will happen. Right. Like, they will go harder and harder and harder on the hate that doesn't seem to have happened in this case. So I think if he. If he did fully, at some point, did address it, just let it go. I don't think it's worth. You know, I think he'd be better off finding other mediums and avenues to, like, showcase more of who he is outside of those things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who he is as a dad. Like, what is his own personal life? Like, what are his interests? Things that go beyond. Just. If you know him on Traders and you know him for being that kind of a player or you know him from the Bachelor, from.

[A]

What do you think his future is? Do you think he gets. Because where do you go from this? Are we really going to see him hosting another show? I kind of think this might. Maybe he will go away, kind of.

[B]

Has he written a book?

[A]

I think he probably has. Most bachelors have. Yeah, we'll see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I think he can survive.

[A]

I think he's done everything he can do, you know, and. But I mean, who knows, you know, someone like this that has this kind of following. Could he have a clothing company? Could he. You know, people come with ideas and things, so.

[B]

By the way, he can still make a tremendous living just from doing stuff on social media and online. But I will say the timing of this and with Rena's book coming out and her pissing off a lot of other people and saying, you know, off colored things will work to his advantage. Because if she does come for him on that traitor stage during a week or two weeks when she's been coming after everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do think there will be, from a public's perspective, more leniency towards him.

[A]

Good. Okay. So this girl. I don't have her name in front of me, but this is the girl who had this HGTV show on all ready to go. And it wasn't her first show. And she does, you know, remodeling and everything on hgtv. And while she was filming something, she was, you know, instead of saying, oh, shoot, she said, fart the N word. And then she goes, oh, my God, why did I say that? Can you please delete that? And the guy goes, well, no. Cause I've been filming this whole time, so I can't just, like, stop. And she's like, ugh, fuck my life. Then it got out. And once it got out, she said, well, that. This person said, I'm going to release it unless you give me money. And I guess she said no. And then he did release it, but then HGTV just completely canceled the whole show. It was, like, done everything. They were just like, no. Which I think, yeah, probably the right corporate decision or network decision to make. All right, what's your advice for her in going forward?

[B]

Go away. Because I think if in a moment like that, if that word comes to mind, like, that would never come to my mind. If I mess something up, I'd be like. Or, sorry, can I say that?

[A]

But like, you would say every other

[B]

word like would come to mind. That would not like. I don't think in moments of, like.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

It's in her vocabulary.

[A]

It's just like the Tourette's guy. Yeah, Tourette's. Or not. Why? I mean, exactly.

[B]

I don't know with like, Tourette's, if it's the same sort of a thing. Like, does it just come into your mind? Or like, is it. I don't know enough about it to, like, understand the process of, like, thought to. I don't know.

[A]

I mean, I guess with somebody. I mean, when you listen to unrestricted songs, it's all in those, of course. So even if you didn't say it but you had Tourette's, maybe then you could say it. But I don't know. But, like, in her instance, I just remember. Oh, my God. What was the story of the lady that had, like, the white hair and she was Southern and she was like a cooking lady, and she got canceled and she had a couple riffs with

[B]

the buttons, wasn't she? No, that's.

[A]

She didn't have the butter, but her name was like, ugh. I know. People are, like, screaming in their car.

[B]

Paula Deen.

[A]

Yes. She had something like this happen.

[B]

Yeah, she was.

[A]

It was a hot mic or something.

[B]

Do we know where she's from?

[A]

No. Does that make A difference? Does it make it worse?

[B]

It doesn't make a difference, but I

[A]

do think, like, you're from the South. Would it make it worse or better or.

[B]

I don't think. I think it means you probably have more work to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I think that there are innate, you know, when it comes to issues of, like, race and racism. Like, that's either, you know, there's the conscious version of it where you absolutely know you are, and then the unconscious version of it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Who's to say in this case what her situation is, what her background is, if it was acceptable to use that kind of language while she was growing up? So maybe. Maybe she doesn't use it in her personal life, but she's been around it enough. Where it came out is not acceptable. She needs to go away. She needs to probably educate herself, understand why that word came out of her mouth, and revisit it, which can address it. So what.

[A]

How would you educate. What do you do to educate someone? Cause I remember when Stassi Schroeder got in her situation, which it was not this, but it was a time in 2020 where somebody just kind of, like, remembered some unsavory things that she had said on podcast episodes. And she'd had her podcast for a very long time. And one was about another cast member who was black, and the other one was her being annoyed about the Oscars kind of being so diverse. And I'm just being vague because I don't remember exactly what she said. And she's doing great now, but it took a lot of years, and she lost everything. They fired her from the show. Her agent dumped her, her publicist dumped her. Her publisher dumped her. Cause at the time, she had a second book. Eventually the second book came around, but at that time, it was, like, ready to go, and they pulled the deal. They were about to go on a. A tour for the podcast. However, no one was touring at that time because of COVID but that got canceled. And then she didn't come out gay, but she came out pregnant, which I think is maybe the second best thing that could happen. So then people laid off, and then she made her way back. She wrote the book, but her one time, the person representing her was like, we'd love to have. I would love to have her have her first interview with you. And of course, like, I was thrilled, and I was. In covering it, I was kind of. I was understanding of what she was going through and felt bad and was like, just let her have her pregnancy. But he said she did. He goes, she really did go to work. She met with a diversity coach and read these books and everything and really had a better understanding of why she got to that place, why she was in that place of such privilege to feel annoyed to talk about the things that she did talk about that you're like, well, look about. Look from this perspective. So in the end, like, she's doing amazing and nobody seems to care what happened five years ago when they enjoy her hosting a reunion on the Hulu Network. So.

[B]

Well, it's also because she hasn't messed up again. So I feel like that's the difference between somebody releasing a statement that says, I really need to educate myself versus the person that actually does go and educate themselves. Because just like you said, there had been comments along the way that were unsavory. That's that same issue seeping through. So unless you go to the root of the problem and actually, like, address it as a human being, yeah, it's gonna sneak up and you're gonna trip up again. So there was somebody that I was advising during that period where I said to them, I will work with you, but you need to actually go to school. I want you to go to school. I want you to pay for a class on learning about bias and race and issues. And when you are done with that, then we can revisit this and put a plan forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And their recovery was pretty quick. They came back after the fact. They were able to address it and move on.

[A]

Yeah, that's just. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, The Beckhams. You know, the Beckhams have been public people for many years. They have the ultimate sticky daughter in law situation. And how do you feel about that whole situation with Brooklyn and Nicola?

[B]

Yeah, Nicola. I think it's a similar type of thing where not so different to necessarily Alex Cooper or even the Duchess of Sussex at one point, which is like, people come into the situation with a preconceived notion about who they are, whether they've heard something or they've decided. And I think in this case with Nicola, she's never really been that, you know, beloved. I think the beloved family was is the Beckhams. And I think for people, sometimes when there's somebody that gets to marry into a situation like that, even though she's, of course, wealthy beyond means, but like, the fame and like, they are an iconic family, they are a part of, like, you know,

[A]

our zeitgeist pop culture,

[B]

there's a legacy there. Right. Beyond just Being on whatever track she was on, that I think from the get go kind of did not set her up. Again, if you don't tell. If you're not able to tell your own story, like, other people will do it for you. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so she. She had never really addressed who she was separate from him. I think she was trying to act Nicole. Yeah. So then when you come into a situation like this and there's sort of no barometer on who you are, it's really easy to pick apart somebody during a time like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The other part of this is, like, you know, when things are relatable, and I think everybody knows somebody that has either married, dated, experimented with somebody that their family or friends did not like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so when you get that vibe, if you've been on the other side where you have not liked somebody that somebody close to you has been with, you're more likely emotionally to side with the side that's struggling with it and struggling with that person. So it already puts her kind of in an odd position.

[A]

Yeah. Even though, like, I have a daughter and two boys, I always think I've always thought of it more like, you don't like the husband of your daughter,

[B]

you know, and, well, no one's ever good enough. I feel like there's that.

[A]

But I've always remembered one time, Kris Jenner, when I. The first time I was hearing about earlier, early on, before they had ever had a show, and we were friendly, and I was like, wait. Kim got married at 18 to this, like, older guy. He was, like, in his 30s, had four kids and met him and got married in Vegas or something at 18. And I was like, oh, my God, how did you deal with that to Chris? And she just said, well, I embraced him and I included them in everything. And she didn't say this part, but I realized why it was smart. It was like, you got to remain being there, because then once it doesn't work out, God forbid, he's abusive or something, or cheats on her and she wants out, she's still in good relationship with you, so she can go to your house. And if it's like, if you're with that piece of trash, I'm not talking to you, then they're so embarrassed. Then the isolation starts, and they're so embarrassed that they might see. And I think even with a guy, it's really hard as the mom, because you're just like, okay, this woman hates me and I don't know what to do. And he's my son. And again, I just think you have to be the bigger person and you have to continue to invite him or,

[B]

you know, I think that's absolutely. I mean, I have.

[A]

You just keep doing it and be like, can, it's my birthday, do you think you can meet me for lunch?

[B]

And you.

[A]

No, no, no. And, you know, what are you gonna do? And then you just have to know for your own soul as a parent, like, I tried. I texted, you know, four times a year, no matter what, no matter how many years went, I sent a card, da, da, da, da. But I also get at a certain point as a parent, you're like, all right, you're an adult too. So, like, if you don't want to mess with me, like, I'm not gonna keep putting my heart on this old. But the chances of someone who gets married at 22 years old or whatever he was actually staying married forever is very low. So I'm like, I think eventually they'll break up. And you don't wanna have too much time pass with your son.

[B]

Yeah. I think, by the way, you're even just from, I'll say, personal experience, you're 100% right. I think when you. That isolation piece is so key because it ends up creating this, like, it's an us against the world dynamic.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then what usually ends up happening is then one person, after being in that bubble, starts to decide, like, maybe I actually want to see what the world is like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the other person's like, no, no, no, stay in this with me. It's just us. And then that's usually where, like, the friction starts to begin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think in dynamics like this. But I think for those two, I haven't understood why. At least I totally get wanting to express yourself and share what you're going through. That's something I think all people want, whether you're famous or you're not. But what the purpose and the timing was for them to put out that statement now, when there have been rumors for years now that something is off in the dynamic. I think one thing that I would have advised against in a statement like that is the pointing of the fingers with specific examples.

[A]

Oh, you mean like with how they said about the wedding and the wedding.

[B]

The wedding and the dog. Oh, is the dog that they had asked, I think heard at either house, some puppies after the fire, or donate.

[A]

They asked Victoria.

[B]

Victoria. And she never responded or didn't engage. I think people, you know, as much as it's interesting to read and see all the Memes. And like, every, like, that was a joyful week on the Internet in a lot of ways. But, like, at least for not. Certainly not for them that, like, you, when you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms and the focus then becomes on like, well, did that happen? Like, they found the DJ that did the wedding to like, ask. He's like, on the Today show or something being like, this is. Let me set it straight. Right.

[A]

I wondered about that DJ thing. I thought maybe. I think that the Beckham's like, said, can you go do these interviews? Because I think he came off. It was good for the Beckhams because he was like, didn't he say that? Like.

[B]

No, I think he actually said it was, like, weird.

[A]

Oh, no. Then. Okay, so maybe then they, like, I feel like somebody must have given their approval for him to go, because why would you jeopardize being the person that's the DJ that's telling the secrets?

[B]

Well, at the same time, you're, you know, not forgetting who her side of the family is, the billionaire side. Yeah, there could be. He may never have to DJ again.

[A]

That's what I'm thinking to keep the story. Because then it was like we were hearing like, no, it was Marc Anthony who said it, and it was a salsa or something that would say, put your hands on the hips. And then we also heard, no, they already had their first dance. Yeah, they weren't. This was not the first dance. And like, and people didn't have their phones because it was a big, high profile wedding. So. Yeah. And then also just that, like, you know, they're rich, but the parents family is richer and they don't have to do, you know, supposedly get a million dollars a month. They don't really have to do anything ever again.

[B]

So why not just. I don't know what this afforded them.

[A]

This is what I think. I think again, you're in the relationship with the person that's set to isolate you. It becomes. I just don't want to fight. So if I bring up my mom or if I go to see my mom, you are mad at me for a week. You mentally torture me. You give me the silent treatment. Fine, I won't go to the lunch. And that's what happens. Like, I mean, the more common dynamic is a man doing it to a woman where she's like, I want to see my friends. No, I hate all your friends. Okay, well, I want to see my sister. And then he finds something that, you know, he doesn't like about the sister anymore. And then if you get caught lying, then he's like, you've lied. You saw your. And you're like, fine, I won't see my. And then see, next thing you know, now you're being hit and you have no one to call.

[B]

Correct. Yeah.

[A]

So it's like, if it.

[B]

Maybe it was some sort of declaration to her, like, I am yours behind the scenes and privately, and now I'm making it public. But we. We've sort of seen this scenario play out before, and it has not. It hasn't, you know, necessarily. I don't think anybody would say, like, that was a slam dunk. Right. Like, it didn't come with a lot of repercussions. So, again, like, I don't know what the point of it was. And I think without that intention, it's hard to kind of feel badly for them, especially because they're incredibly privileged and they do both have parents that are healthy. And, like, how bad. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how bad is it beyond just maybe not fully embracing one another?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will say, though, like, there are certain times and, like, my team always will. Like, they'll know because I'll usually, like, end up, like, on the floor. Because I think it's, like, the best response ever. What David did when he was asked, which was what he was sort of like he was at some other event, I think, maybe Davos, and he said, children are allowed to make mistakes. And I think he said such errors are part of learning and that parents sometimes have to let that happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was sort of like, that

[A]

is a great response.

[B]

Dead in the. What? We're unfazed. We're unbothered. This is our kid.

[A]

And we're not gonna pick apart what he said, and we're not gonna try to get the audience on our side when it's an internal family problem.

[B]

Brilliant. Like, no notes. Genius.

[A]

Great. You know, Prince Andrew's been a big problem for years for the royals since, like, 2017. When this photo came out with Ghislaine Maxwell and of course, Virginia, who has since passed, but she really was the person who wrote the book and told all about it. He said, I never. This photo is Photoshopped. Said, oh, I never went to that nightclub. And she said, he was sweating all over me. He said, I had a disease that caused me not to sweat. And, you know, he did that BBC interview, which was shocking. And in your knowledge, did he just go do that rogue, or did they. Do you think the royal publicist or whoever told him that he could do that interview.

[B]

I remember I saw there was. I think there's a documentary. No, it's not a documentary, but it's might be a movie or a series on Netflix where they went into it, if I recall properly. I think he ended up pushing it. He was advised against doing it, and ultimately was the one that was like, no, I'm doing it. I can do it. I can pull this off.

[A]

Okay, so with this, now he's been arrested. Does this reflect horribly on the royal family? I don't. I think once this came out six years ago, the damage was done.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

And now at this point, you're like, yeah, if he has to go to prison, whatever, let him go. Obviously, he is in the royal family. It's just there's a little bit of question, like if they're gonna find anything else, how any royals were ever implicated, but it doesn't seem like they are.

[B]

I don't think so. I do. What's unfortunate about it is now that it's gotten this far, I think everybody knew how much Her Majesty the Queen loved Andrew. It's her son, of course. And it definitely seemed like at some point, whether it's King Charles or the palace or whomever was made aware that some more shit was about to go down. Because that's when all of a sudden, now we're taking his title away and we're taking his residence away and we're taking security away. When the entire time up until that point, he had all of those things.

[A]

And the kids are King Charles, Princess Anne, then Andrew, and then, like, Edwin, Edward, Edward, and then Andrew. Andrew's the youngest.

[B]

I actually don't know.

[A]

But those are the four.

[B]

Yep, those are the four.

[A]

And the other, Edwin or Edward, whatever he's doing, he's just sort of.

[B]

Yeah, he's up.

[A]

He doesn't do anything wrong, but he doesn't. He's not, you know, a juicy topic. And he's so far down the line that, you know, yeah, it wouldn't really matter.

[B]

But I think it's good in the time since obviously, you know, the difference once, you know, King Charles became King Charles and then was clearly briefed about all of this, I think he did do the right things by removing that at a time before the public got to know everything. And all this new information, rather than doing it right now would seem like, how did you not know?

[A]

Even though they don't have power, as far as with the country, it is. I mean, in a hundred years, if this is made into whatever form of Movie and TV is. It is pretty juicy. I wonder, of course, is the Crown done? I mean, or could there be another season of the Crown? That brings us up to this time where he's being, you know, taken of. I mean, that would be pretty cool.

[B]

I feel like this. I feel like the crown got us so far.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like there's a whole nother series waiting for this last past chapter into. That includes this and, you know, obviously other transitions, et cetera, and potentially as William and Kate obviously ascend a bit higher. But this is, you know, at the end of the day, like, there's always a bad apple. You know what I mean?

[A]

Talk about the ultimate bad apple.

[B]

You know, this is, I would say,

[A]

because, like, you know, there's that photo of Epstein and Ghislaine on the porch of that, like, frogs, whatever. There's some house of theirs. What's it called?

[B]

Was it at Frogmore?

[A]

Yeah, it's at Frogmore. They're clearly on the porch of that. So, like, they were there. They have. You know, there's. Now it could have been they just had a tea, you know, who knows? But I think that's where it's like, oh, my God. You know, if anything more nefarious happened, like, on the actual royal property, that would be a lot. So we'll see. We'll see what happens with him. Okay. John and Carolyn. Carolyn Bissette were watching the show Love Story during that time. You were a young girl, so you were not in the position you are today. But I thought it'd be kind of fun to do, like, a hypothetical. When they were in the news all the time and their arguments got caught on tape and people were, you know, trying to say, are you going to have a baby? Is someone cheating? She's a bitch. You know, all the articles all the time, because we were so obsessed with their style and who they were. How do you. I mean, what is your opinion of that? Of here you are, this girl that, you know, didn't. Was not a thirst bucket.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I. Well, first, I'll say it's interesting because I feel again, I remember the day that that plane crashed, and I remember the significance of the two of them more so him. But, you know, I think for her, in wanting to maintain a more private life, which I understand, I don't think there was ever an opportunity or an interview or a lot of times where she was sort of able to say, like, this is who I am. And as a result, the mystique around her and the not knowing created A much larger structure.

[A]

They said there's very little audio of her voice at all.

[B]

Yeah. And look, I mean, it's even hard. I think, in the show, it's a lot of us. Besides seeing a photo of her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's our first time kind of understanding maybe who she is or who she was. And what's interesting is, like, at least for me, in my perspective, how the show is defining her is sort of different than how I envisioned her in my mind. I didn't know that she was as, you know, if they're doing a perfect portrayal, as sort of, like, confident and suave as she was. Like, I kind of always thought she was more.

[A]

I mean, according to Carol Radziwell, she really was, like, the most confident girl she ever met.

[B]

Yeah. Like, that doesn't necessarily come through in the photos. I think you can see she's sort of always positioned and looks to him with a lot of admiration, or she's showing a lot of joy and expression on her face that this was, like, truly, you know, a love story for them, and maybe she did not want to allow any more. Any more intrigue into their life. But I think by not doing that, you kind of cause a bigger, you know, a bigger commotion around yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's. It's so not acceptable. It's so. I mean, not acceptable. It's so inaccessible and it's so exclusive.

[A]

It was such a different time because I'm like, you know, it'd be so weird now if a girl that looked like her and lived in New York in 2026 didn't have an Instagram account and wasn't doing Get Ready with Mes and things. And then she just didn't really want that life and didn't like it. But maybe that's because it wasn't on her. Maybe that time of where the paparazzi would follow you around and write stories about you. I'm thinking that probably was much harder. Life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Than just being able to put it out all yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, I mean, truly, I think Instagram and, you know, doing your own social media is what killed that whole industry of. Of magazines. Because people are able to say, you know, how they feel about things, what they're doing, what they're saying.

[B]

Like, now we see new photos. Like, I remember a used to, like, go to my mom's office and, like, I couldn't wait if she had, like, an Us Weekly or people to see, like, what is Mary Kate wearing? Like, now. It's no problem. Well, actually, they. They're still kind of exclusive. But like Mary Kate and Ashley, they don't have Instagrams. They're kind of off the grid. Again, there's a lot of. I'd say that they're way more paped than other celebrities that are on social media and are, you know, sharing more.

[A]

I wonder if that's going to be like a sign of like true status in a little bit where it's like, I don't have to be online.

[B]

Correct. I think in a way it is.

[A]

I think it is kind of coming to that point.

[B]

Like it's quiet luxury. It's like that.

[A]

I don't need to post about my yacht. I don't need to film every little thing I do. I don't need the public to say how great I am. I don't. Like, I'm so confident. I don't. Because I'm always just like, you know, even when I see like a Britney Spears taking to the, you know, foyer again, I'm like, she must get something by seeing that 100,000 people liked it and, you know, 50,000 shared it. Even though she cut off the comments, it's like she needs that little drug, you know, she needs that bump of like, okay, people are looking and talking about me. And I think it does say a lot when a pretty girl is just that like, like, I wonder if like old school socialites will come back into play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that they are not accessible, that you cannot follow them. But it'll be. I don't know, I think that it's so saturated and with the AI and everything, I feel like there is going to be some wave that's going to start to emerge in the next couple years that's like, maybe not the alpha generation which is after Z, but like the betas. Like, I wonder if, like those parents are not gonna be all about the iPad in front of their kids face all the time and are like, yeah, you know, they seem to be more protective of their kids. And like, I feel like that generation might be different and might be like, no, there's that world and then there's the real world that isn't being chronic chronicled, whatever.

[B]

No, I certainly agree with that. But I do think, and I think I said this earlier, it's like, if you don't tell your story, somebody else will. And that's exactly what is happening with this show and how this is playing out. Especially for a generation that did not, like, was not alive when they were around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like their first. First.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I wonder if they did have like, where she was like, sure, I'll go on the Today show with you and things like that. Then we would have, like seen their funny dynamic. And maybe you're right. Maybe if there wasn't such a mystery, maybe they wouldn't have been as hounded. Because I do feel like with other famous couples that were mysterious at one time and like the, you know, like the royals who then moved to America and stuff, the interest has died down as far as like, what are they doing, where are they going? What is she wearing? Because she does have Instagram and they did have a TV show. And so I feel like that's probably good for them or maybe not, but definitely it's like the hunger is not what it was five years ago to just get any glimpse into this mysterious life.

[B]

And I don't think it ever has to be. Or in their case especially, like, I think it would have still made sense if it was just like one thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, maybe it was one beautiful interview that they even did together or something. It doesn't have to be all that, like, and now I'm on the COVID of this magazine, I'm doing this and like a full blown campaign. She doesn't need to justify her existence. She's accomplished, she's beautiful, he loves her and she loves him, that like, that's sort of enough. But I think there's this sort of notion amongst people, it's like, if you're not willing to show us who you are, then also what are you hiding? Which again pushes the intrigue.

[A]

Right, Right. Okay, last one. We're talking about Armie Hammer. That was an interesting time when, especially now with the Epstein files of cannibalism and that he wrote girls that he was cheating on his wife with things like I wanna take out your rib and barbecue and eat it and all that. But then when it really all came out and they did the documentary, which by the way, by the time that doc came out, I felt like people were over the story. And also in his defense, it sounded like, well, he was into the 50 shades of grey kind of thing and these girls participated and yeah, it probably fucked them up. Who wouldn't? But they didn't get a lot of sympathy and again, the interest had waned. Now he is doing a podcast like the rest of us.

[B]

And his mom too.

[A]

She has her owner, she's just a guest on it all the time.

[B]

Her mom, it was just, I think announced. Her mom now has a podcast. You mean his mom or his mom? His mom has a Podcast where she will be interviewing men who have been canceled.

[A]

Okay, all right. Yeah, I was really into this story. I had his aunt on who'd written this book years prior.

[B]

I remember that actually, Casey.

[A]

But then, like everybody else, I was kind of like, well, okay, here's your podcast. And I think he's doing okay. I don't know. I personally don't think. Eventually, sure, he might be acting again in something. He'll never be at that movie star, like, status that he was because he's older and there's other people now that have been, you know, that are just as hot and everything. And it seemed like a lot of the things that he was getting were, were kind of duds after his initial, like, thing with Timothee Chalamet and. But he kept getting these parts because he, like, was good looking. And then when this whole thing happened and he essentially, like, got canceled, I don't know, like, what do you. What is your prediction of him? I feel like people don't care.

[B]

I don't think people care. But I also don't necessarily want anymore.

[A]

You know what? I don't want any more either. But I also feel like that was such a big cancellation. That was such a crazy thing. And again, it was at that weird Covid time that people were just, like, thirsty for anything to latch on and get obsessed with. But now I'm like, yeah, it's so weird that after a few years you're like, oh, remember that whole thing about Armie Hammer wanting to eat girl's ribs? And he just was like, yeah, I was a cheater and I was fucked up and I wrote sick shit to girls that I was cheating on my wife with. And you're just like, okay, yeah, I don't know.

[B]

I mean, it also takes so much today for anybody to be a movie star. Especially, like, having to kind of start over and having this. I mean, like, I feel like Glen Powell has been, like, in the running and like the closest thing we've had to sort of like that mold of an old school movie star. And even still, it's not like guaranteed box office success. So for him for people to want to take a risk on him

[A]

from

[B]

a creative standpoint I think is gonna be really tough.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think he might have done one or two things that did not rise to the level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, maybe he can.

[A]

He could just be a podcaster. He could be a podcaster or life

[B]

again maybe sometime like in. He may have this amazing personality that we don't know about because we only know him to be an actor and like maybe an on and off cannibal. You know what I mean? But we don't know. We don't know yet. If he gives people a reason to care for a different reason, then maybe there's a chance.

[A]

Well, I'm so glad that you came on Juicy Scoop and just gave us your really unique and professional perspective on these topics that just consume our conversations. So thank you so much for coming.

[B]

Ashley. Thank you for having me. It was so fun.

[A]

Thank you and Everybody. Go to heathermcdonell.net if when you want to join Patreon or go to Wiseguys Comedy Club in Salt Lake City and come see me March 20th and 21st. Two shows a night and I will see you then.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

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[B]

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