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Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Dr. Erin Nance on Being Misdiagnosed, AI, Plastic Surgery and Ozempic
01:05:19
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- [00:01]
Heather McDonald
This episode is brought to you by JCPenney. Yes, JCPenney. And if you've been there recently, you know it's the place to go for jaw dropping looks at brag worthy prices. They've got something special for every style and budget. Not to mention rewards and deals that.
- [00:16]
Dr. Erin Nance
Make finding those hidden gems even sweeter.
- [00:18]
Heather McDonald
If you already shop JCPenney, you're already in on the secret. But if not, it's time to ask. Wait, am I sleeping on JCPenney? Shop jcpenney.com yes, JCPenney. Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.
- [00:36]
Dr. Erin Nance
When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life. Mr. Sigmund serial data and cereal sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo woo. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop.
- [01:01]
Heather McDonald
Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well you guys, I'm so excited. I have such a good patreon for you happening this weekend. You're going to go to heathermcdall.net join that. Also, we just dropped a new video on my YouTube channel. All the links are below of my day of cooking and shopping with Chef Stew. So all that is so fun. But now for my very juicy interview with Dr. Aaron Nance. We cover everything about misdiagnosis, how you how she's used the Internet and how people have helped each other diagnose different ailments and things. It's so fascinating how AI helps and we talk about plastic surgery and everything from Ozempic to why people can't take a dump. It's juicy, it's funny. Get ready to enjoy. Let's go. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited to talk to our next guest. You've done so much for people that don't know what they're diagnosed with. Using the community of TikTok to get people to figure it out. Talking to Dr. Erin Nance. Nance. Dr. Erin Nance. Her book is Little Misdiagnosed. Also the name of her TikTok and social media. And so I've been following you for a while and just so interesting. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming on.
- [02:22]
Dr. Erin Nance
Thank you so much, Heather. I feel like this is my world's colliding. You don't understand. My husband, when I was in medical school, he got me a subscription to Us Week Weekly and I swear that like this pop culture is my lifeblood. So I'm really, really excited and honored to be on Your podcast.
- [02:43]
Heather McDonald
Well, I mean, I really like that the world's collided, too, that you have made talking about medicine, you know, something especially with women, really great and how women do want to help each other. Sometimes we don't need all the comments, but sometimes in those comments, someone does help with the diagnosis. And what made you first as a, you know, a busy. You're a mom. Correct. You're married, and you're an orthopedic surgeon, and you're a young woman. What made you go, I'm gonna start talking on TikTok?
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Dr. Erin Nance
Well, first, I was just a rabid consumer of TikTok. I thought that people were so clever, so funny. And I think I had this misconception that TikTok was for dancing kids and funny dog videos. But what I very quickly realized that it was an information sharing platform. And really the medium through which that was done is through storytelling, Right? Even all those, like, get Ready with me videos. It's not about the makeup. It's a cue that you're going to hear a story, right? And so I had all these great stories kind of just like, bottled up in me, or, you know, I listen. My husband is in finance, and I would just have all his colleagues just waiting on bated breath for, like, the next crazy thing that happened in the er. So I knew I was always a great storyteller. I just didn't know that TikTok was the platform that I could do that. So I. The very first story that I shared was the story of my brother's accident, which went viral and is the introduction for this book. But that really encouraged me to just continue to share.
- [04:28]
Heather McDonald
And that story, which got well over 2 billion views, is so heartbreaking because it's your first day, which happens on July 4th, to work as an actual doctor in the ER. And your mom is calling you and she says your brother has had an accident and he hit his head. And you did not think at that time that it was the severity of paralysis. He dove into a pool at a party, which is, you know, and there are a lot of those stories on TikTok. And I appreciate the warning and I pre. You know, from someone pushing their friend jokingly to. Not someone not realizing how shallow it is. And once you realize the severity of it, you know, it's also interesting, like, you know, that your family knew to call you, wanted you there, because they knew the severity of it, even though it was like, your biggest first day. And how is your brother today? How many years ago was that?
- [05:29]
Dr. Erin Nance
This was 15 years ago. It was in 2009, so I guess 16 years. I had just gotten married. Life was great. I was starting at my dream residency in Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. And so this really for me came out of nowhere, which is how almost all accidents are, right? No one prepares that this is the last day you're going to be able to tie your shoe. So the fact that this happened to one of my own family members, and what I write about a lot in the book, is this accident could not have happened to a better prepared family. I'm an orthopedic surgeon. My father is a health care attorney, my mother is a nurse. And yet it was so hard for us to manage his accident and the rehabilitation afterwards.
- [06:24]
Heather McDonald
And so where is he now in his life?
- [06:28]
Dr. Erin Nance
So he is married, he has a one year old daughter, he works at a bank. He is a fully functioning member of society and I'm so proud of him. He. A lot of people reach out to him. And, you know, he was a Division 1 athlete. I mean, this is someone who was about to go to the Olympics, right? Just an incredible and incredible, you know, perseverance. And that athlete mindset, I think, is what really served him well in his recovery and his ability to say, like, hey, I didn't hurt my brain. So, yeah, I am going to work. But it is not easy. And it's a very small percentage of people who are disabled are able to actually work. So he's like, listen, I have a degree from Duke University. I am going to work. I'm going to make a life for myself. I'm going to have a family, support my family. And yeah, he's a great brother. He's a great uncle, an inspiration really to everyone.
- [07:28]
Heather McDonald
So physically, what is his. What are his capabilities and incapabilities?
- [07:33]
Dr. Erin Nance
He's in a wheelchair full time, but he does have the ability to stand and even take some steps, which as an orthopedic, as an orthopedic surgeon training, I didn't even realize that was possible. And I write about this in the book, about the first day. It was a couple of months after his injury and I saw his toe just twitch. And I said, kev, you just moved your toe. And he looked at me and he said, I know, I felt it, but I didn't want to if it wasn't true. I didn't want to believe it and get my hopes up, right? And so that just small twitch of his toe was a sign that there was going to be some recovery. And it's incredible. He's Able to drive. He has tools that allow him to drive. That's how he gets to work. I mean, that really is so incredible for his independence. But simple things, like, I remember when my parents had moved to California at this point, and my youngest brother was helping to take care of him, but he was working his own job in the city, commuting. And so Kevin would come home from work and have to wait for someone to undo the buttons on his shirt. Right. And just the simplest things that are a reminder that you are, you know, limited and impaired in those ways. Wow.
- [08:54]
Heather McDonald
Well, that's wonderful to hear that he persevered and is having, you know, a joyful, loving life. Some of the other things that are really interesting that I've seen that you share in the book and you share on little bits on your TikTok is that you were like, that you said how great AI is for medicine and that, you know, this is not to have robots do the surgery, but for people to, in trying to diagnose, use what's there. And I think that makes so much perfect sense. I mean, when I've just even touched on it a little bit, like asking it a question about, wait, which two people from this crime case were in the documentary? Which two weren't? If I was to try to find the article and everything, it would take a longer time, but it's like it just comes right out and tells you so to have all this information be put in and come out. Are some doctors, you know, do they not want to learn this, this new technology that's so helpful? What's the hang up?
- [09:57]
Dr. Erin Nance
Well, I'll give you an example. So I'm the co host of a podcast called the Medical Detectives. It's like Dateline meets Grey's Anatomy. And this is patients sharing their stories. Sometimes it's 20 years, okay, of being misdiagnosed. We have put every guest we've ever interviewed, put their symptoms into ChatGPT. It gets it every single time. Okay? Now, AI has a lot of things that are going for it and a lot of things that it can't do, right? I made a post saying AI can't put a cast on you. They can't start an iv. But I think the doctors have to understand that it's a tool, right? And the tool is only as good as the input that we put into it. So even if you say you have a lot of. You don't know what's going on, you say, jesse, these are like my five symptoms. What could be like three possible. We call it differential diagnoses. As a physician using the tool, we would be able to calibrate those questions even further to get an even closer diagnosis. So I think we really, I say this all the time. You know, AI is not going to replace doctors, but doctors who don't use AI are going to be replaced by doctors who do use AI And I think we have to get with it, all right? And listen, 10 years ago, if someone caught me sneaking on my phone googling something, I would have been left out of the hospital. But now it's almost the default. And I think we have to understand that as doctors, we don't necessarily need AI to tell us, say, the answer. But I think it's going to help us narrow down or give us a more direct pathway to getting a diagnosis sooner for so many people.
- [11:45]
Heather McDonald
Do you want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases?
- [11:51]
Dr. Erin Nance
I'm Morgan Abshur.
- [11:52]
Heather McDonald
And I'm Kaylin Moore. And we'd love for you to check.
- [11:54]
Dr. Erin Nance
Out our new show, Clues.
- [11:55]
Heather McDonald
Each Wednesday, I piece together the timelines and break down the hard facts, digging into forensic details, investigative techniques, and everything that led to justice or didn't. And while Kailyn dives into the facts, I'm pulling out the threads, digging through the Internet theories and looking at the details that may or may not add up. From serial killers to shocking cold cases, we shine a light on the stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard. So join us as we uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak, and the relentless pursuit.
- [12:25]
Dr. Erin Nance
Of answers behind the world's most unforgettable investigations.
- [12:29]
Heather McDonald
Come open a case file with us every Wednesday and listen to clues wherever you get your podcasts.
- [12:35]
Dr. Erin Nance
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- [12:42]
Heather McDonald
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- [14:56]
Dr. Erin Nance
Yeah. Listen, we need all the help we can get in the field. And not to say that AI is going to enable anyone necessarily to be a doctor, but what I also think is a bigger conversation is that there are other ways to be helpful in the medical field. There are physician associates, there are nurse practitioners, there are doctors of physical therapy. And so I think you're absolutely right. And I write about it in a book. The chapter is called the 50% club, where over 50% of people who are pre med in college end up dropping out of pre med by the first year. Right. Because they fail their organic chemistry test. And they're like, well, I can't be a doctor. And I write in the book how I failed that first test. And I went to my mom and I said, well, I can't be a doctor. And she said, that's ridiculous. You don't not get to be a doctor just because you failed one test. And so I think, yes, utilizing tools that will help support the. There's. There's too much to know for any one person. And I think that's where we can utilize the AI. And I absolutely encourage people who have any interest in doing something where they feel like they. Their strong suit is right. They're empathetic. To people, they're curious. I think curiosity is actually the most important attribute that we're looking for in doctors because, listen, information changes over time. And all of that work and studying that I did in med school is almost obsolete 15 years later. So to me it's about, we want people to go into this field who are empathetic, who are curious, who are lifelong learners and who really see this as a mission.
- [16:41]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. I've been saying for well over a decade that I feel like physicians, assistants, nurse practitioners should be running more like urgent care type places like where you just, you have a really bad cold, you know, it's probably a sinus infection, but you want to make sure before you take an antibiotic and you get the antibiotic and you can be on your way. You don't have to call your, you know, go get a general, then go. By that time, it's you, you know, when you, you're sick and you need to start something that day and each day that passes, it's gonna last longer. And it's like how, you know, so I, I do love that idea and I do think that could be definitely the way of the future of helping more people in a less expensive way too.
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Dr. Erin Nance
Yeah. And I will say that there are currently systems that are really operating outside of the traditional healthcare system, like MIDI health, especially for women, particularly women like perimenopause and menopause. Right. Where you don't necessarily need to go make and take a day off from work and talk to your doctor about your hair is thinning. Right. And so they have kind of, I would say, bridged the gap for some of these, like lifestyle treatments and issues that people are interested in. I do like that there are companies that include a medical person in the decision making process and not just, well, I want Ozempic and so I'm going to get it from this ad off a tv. Right. I think that we need to be prescribing medications responsibly because it's not just about figuring out who needs the medication or why. It's how are we going to support you when you have a side effect or if something goes wrong. Right. Who are you going to turn to then? And that's my main concern about these. They call it direct to consumer pharmaceuticals and companies. It's not so much that we don't believe that patients should, we shouldn't have more access to these medications and these therapies, but it's the supervision part that I think is the missing ingredient.
- [18:47]
Heather McDonald
Speaking of Ozempic, wegovy those type of things. I feel like there's like this, this small community that's just hoping for the day that they open up their phone and see that there's news that there's adverse effects and the people are getting fatter than ever. Like a Flowers for Algernon. Why can't people just be happy that their friend is looking fit and isn't drinking as much and looks good? I mean, what do you think of the psychological asshole ness of that is about?
- [19:20]
Dr. Erin Nance
Well, one, I think there's just jealousy in general, right. I think people are jealous and people are judgmental. That's just like human nature. But there's also, you know, like real life scenarios. There's a book about so in. I think it was, I want to say the 1920s or 30s, it's called the Radium Girls, where radium, like the radioactive. Okay, was used as like a tonic, right? This is going to extend your life. This is going to make you glow. Well, it was actually literally glowing from the inside because you were using nuclear radio nucleotides. And all of these people died from radiation exposure similar to the bombing. And there's a brilliant book, it's called the Radium Girls. So you do have to understand that we should be studying these medications for very long life cycles. Right. And Ozempic as a class of drug, these GLP1 drugs have, have been studied for very long periods of time. Have they been studied for 50 years? No. So do we know? We don't. But we have pretty darn good evidence for, I can't even say for exactly how long they've been out, but certainly over 10 years that they've been, you know, they're, they're about to reach their expiration on their patent. I think some of these drugs, so it's been around long enough that we can be fairly confident to say these are the side effects that can be expected in this small population of people. But I think the drug now has been used on so many people and over a pretty long period of time that we're not going to have a, you know, shoe drop on the other side of the moment.
- [21:01]
Heather McDonald
Well, speaking of, you know, being happy that something I've read has turned out to be bad, I will say I did the same thing about cold plunges. I had said. I don't like cold plunges. Everybody's doing the cold plunge. I can handle a sauna that's kind of nice, like a Jacuzzi. And I said, I want the news to come out that the cold Plunges aren't that good for you. And then five days later there was news that said, especially for women, it kind of shrinks your muscle growth, which we know muscle growth for women is the most important thing, more than getting cardio and everything to stay young and fit and healthy. Osteoporosis, all that kind of stuff. What is your opinion of cold plunging?
- [21:45]
Dr. Erin Nance
Well, cold plunging, if you think of it in theory, right? The point is that cold as a therapy is a anti inflammatory, right? So the point is that you are stopping the, your own body's inflammatory response. Now here's something really, really interesting. Forever we have been telling people who have sprained their ankles, right? Rice rest, ice, compression, elevation, that is technically no longer the recommendation because what they researched and found was that if you just don't walk on your ankle for a week, then it gets stiff and then it's harder to actually recover. So now they recommend gentle weight bearing, gentle movement. And then similarly with the ice, yes, it does help decrease the inflammation, but it's the inflammation that's bringing the reparative function to the injury. So I don't think it's. That ice is necessarily a bad thing. It's definitely not a bad thing. But why are we using the ice? Right? All right, if we want to use the ice so that your ankle doesn't blow up like a basketball, that's a good thing, right? But if we use the ice for a week at a time, then we're probably actually stopping some of the positive effects of the inflammatory response. So like anything, I am always wary if 1,000 people jump on the bandwagon, right? I don't know how many more videos I have to watch that I need to eat 100 grams of protein. Like, where did that come from? Okay, who decided that that was some like, magical number and why we're all like jumping on this message. It's not to say that I don't think, I don't that obviously protein is a vital part of our diet and what we should be doing and we should be wanting to build muscle mass. We know that a strong, if you get injured, a strong patient is going to recover better and faster than a patient who was deconditioned or weaker. But yeah, in terms of cold plunge, I think for that moment, yes, you are halting an inflammatory response. So like if you just did a long run, you did a triathlon and you did something very physical, that's why all the athletes, they do the cold plunging. But yeah, for me, I'm taking it more as anecdotal advice than necessarily, you know, published research.
- [24:17]
Heather McDonald
I also think all the ads and stuff that you get on TikTok and everything out there about gut health. Gut health, it's really just code for take this and you'll shit more. And there's nothing more fun than taking a big shit. You feel thin, you feel great, and you're like, anything that can make me shit more I want. And isn't that the same as. And what's the difference between. We'll answer that. But also what is prebiotic and probiotic? I feel like that's on sodas now that's in yogurt. And you're just like, give me what's going to make me run to that toilet at a Target and leave my cart behind.
- [24:59]
Dr. Erin Nance
So it's the same thing about these buzzwords, right? How many times have you heard the term gut microbiome? Do you have any idea what that means? No, no, no. And to be honest, I think a lot of these companies are banking on you not exactly knowing you knowing what it is. Because it sounds important, right? It sounds scientific. And there are really great companies that are doing science based research into these problems and trying to come up with solutions. But, and listen, I am on TikTok all the time. I tell people if there is a buy now button at the end of this post, it's not that necessarily that technology or that medication is bad or harmful. You just have to think twice about the motive behind it. And so there are, you know, it's getting harder and harder to understand who are the credible sources of information online these days. Actually it's not even publicly launched yet, but I created a physician and expert led social media platform so that all the content would come from credible sources so you don't have to worry about being filled with misinformation and negative information. But in terms of gut health, it's a major problem. And for too long the like western medicine has just brushed it off as oh, it's ibs, like, oh, you're constipated. When there are most likely genetic factors that are affecting your ability to have good digestion. There are environmental factors, I mean for sure when it comes to like our diet. And so I think more investigation into these factors is really important, but it shouldn't be done in a click baity way that makes us, well, number one, feel like we're a vulnerable population. Right, right. People, people like you would do anything, right. If they told you, okay, you're gonna have the best of your life, you're like, sign me up, right?
- [27:10]
Heather McDonald
And it's also the other thing I saw was so many big influencer people, you know, that don't need the couple grand. We're pushing this thing called dose and it's like an orange bottle and like this cleans out your liver. And you know, again, if you're a boozer, if you like to drink, you're like, oh, I should take care of my liver, right? And then I saw another thing saying, oh my God, I had too much turmeric and now I'm screwed. So like what is that?
- [27:41]
Dr. Erin Nance
Yeah. So for example, the whole liver thing, the liver is your organ which cleanses and detoxes your blood, okay? That is the actual function of the liver. You don't need a pill to do the function of the liver unless you have cirrhosis of the liver, you have a fatty liver, but your liver does not need any extra help. That's the function of the liver, all right? And I don't follow that like liver king or I think something terrible happened to me actually, so I'm not down that tick tock rabbit hole. But yeah, same thing. I mean, turmeric, right? I think there's a bit of a war right now between big pharma and like supplements, right. And I think the general public is right to be wary of big pharma, right? Because again, a lot of the research studies that have been done have been funded by those same pharmaceutical companies. As a med student, we were always taught to question the source of the funding behind studies to then analyze the results. But nowadays studies are so expensive to run and that in essence they have to be funded. There's no one else. Our government is certainly no longer funding these independent research projects. So we're in essence relying on these companies to say, yeah, it's safe, right? And I think trust in science is at an all time low and that has given rise to the influencer led wellness movement. And I don't necessarily think all of those, that movement is bad or there's not some actual results and science behind it, but the methods in which they're marketing it to me are just untrustworthy. They're not credible. And in my opinion, let's say you are a woman with endometriosis, right? There is no one you trust more than another woman with endometriosis. I don't need Alex Earle to sell me something about endometriosis related. So for me, I'd like to see it more be put into the power of the patients who actually have these conditions. And you know, my theory is that every user is an influencer when it comes to your health.
- [30:16]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, and especially women love to share. And if they have knowledge, they want to be like, I know what that is. We spend so much time caring for our skin on our face, but what about our neck? I mean, that is really the first thing that goes. And that's why you gotta start protecting it now. And that is why I love GoPure. And with summer in full swing, your neck and your chest are more exposed than ever. So whether you're rocking a sundress, swimsuits, or strappy tops, your neck is out there for the whole world to see. And it's one of the first places to show signs of aging. Here's the thing. The skin on your neck is thinner, more delicate, and less oily than the skin on your face, which means it needs some extra love, especially in the sun and heat. GoPure's firming complex targets the unique concerns of the neck while nourishing and strengthening your skin for a more lifted, youthful look so you can feel comfortable showing even a little more skin this summer. I've been using it for a couple of months now. I absolutely love it. And my skin truly feels different on my neck than it did before. So soft and supple and it's just, it's the best. You guys will love it. And for a limited time, our juicy scoopers get 25% off GoPure with the code Juicy Scoop at checkout. Get the summer glow you deserve with Go pure. With over 1 million jars sold, this beauty secret is no longer a secret. For a limited time only, our juicy scoopers get 25% off pure with the code Juicy Scoop at checkout. Just head over to GoPure Beauty.com use code juicy scoop and you're all set. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask you where you heard about GoPure, tell them it was from Juicy Scoop. Managing multiple business locations shouldn't require three different platforms, five different logins, and a spreadsheet that only one person knows how to use. No. It's time you consolidate all of your needs into one easy to use platform you and your clients actually enjoy using with Boulevard. Boulevard is the number one client experience platform built specifically for appointment based self care businesses. Because salons, spas, barbershops, med spas and other self care businesses are so personal, the platform powering your business should feel the same. Plus, Boulevard helps you elevate your marketing, generates custom reports, manages Memberships taking your business as far as you want to go. So see why top beauty and wellness brands choose Boulevard to empower their team and grow their business. What I love about Boulevard is that it's not just software. It's smarter, more personal and organized way to manage all of your businesses locations in one place. Right now, Boulevard is offering new customers 10% off your first year subscription when you go to join boulevard.com juicyscoop to book a demo. That's joinbolvard b l v d.com juicyscoop book a demo and get 10% off your first year subscription. Join boulevard.com juicy scoop so I speaking of, you know, Covid and the vaccine, which, you know, people didn't want to take because it wasn't tested for decades. So I had a viral moment of when I faded on stage after getting my booster. So I did the two shots. Johnson. What did I do? Wait, what were the ones? There was Johnson and Johnson Moderna.
- [33:49]
Dr. Erin Nance
Maybe Pfizer.
- [33:50]
Heather McDonald
Wait, it was Pfizer. It was okay, it was Pfizer. I think I did the two, right? And then that had the booster. I don't remember. It seems like so long ago. Anyway, so I got on stage and I fainted. And it went viral because I was joking about how I'd gotten all the shots and I still had not gotten Covid. And I listed all my shots, which included a flu shot and also the first of the shingles. And I go, and, you know, I still got my period, which is a joke about housewives being mean to each other. Once someone doesn't need a tampon, okay, so that it wasn't even a joke about, like, let me do a hacky joke about my period, you know, which all these men are like, this is why women aren't funny, you know? Anyway, so I think. So I start seeing spots. I've never fainted in my life. And I faint and I tell people, like, if that had happened at my house or anywhere where I wasn't standing in front of 500 people with two shows to do that night, I would have sat down and it might have passed. But I've never fainted and I've never felt that dizzy before. But because I was doing a show, I was like, oh, let me walk it off. And then I just fell and I hit my head very hard. And so when I went, I had, you know, some. A doctor friend of ours call my husband and say, when was the last time she got any boosters? And it was two weeks to the day. Now, at that Time if I wanted to, people wanted to hear about it because it went viral. But anytime I did an interview saying, well, it was two weeks day, I had a shot, they wouldn't run the interview. And instead the last thing I said was, Jesus loves me the most. Which is also a joke, okay, in my act and stuff, because I was Catholic and I'd be like, do your Christian service and spread the word of Juicy Scoop as you would Jesus Christ. But not in a disrespectful way. Like all my kids have gone to Catholic school, I'm baptized, got married in the church, but the super Christians thought I was a libtard and were like, thought that Jesus flicked me because I had gotten the shot. And I deserve to have fainted and hit my head because I got the shot. So anyway, it went on for a long time and sometimes it comes back around and no one could tell me what it was because I've never fainted since my head healed. And then other people said, you have pots, okay? But then again, it never happened again. So I'm just thrilled that I didn't have a brain tumor or something because that's what I thought when I fainted. I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna get a CAT scan. And I did an MRI and the heart and I tested for everything and the hospital in Phoenix did everything they could and I turned out to be okay. But you know, it's just so weird to like open my phone and see me faint again. The worst part is people saying this chick isn't funny or that's the funniest moment she had is when she fainted. And I've been doing this for like, you know, 30 years. But with all of that, you know, and you're in the medical field, like, is it difficult to answer any questions about the COVID shots?
- [36:56]
Dr. Erin Nance
For me, I just talk about coming from a place of the information that I know. So similar to you, I made a TikTok post maybe a year after I had gotten the COVID vaccines. And I started the post saying, I am a physician. I was one of the very first people to get the COVID vaccine in December of 2020. I have gotten every shot, I have gotten every booster. This is not an anti vaccine post. But I want you to know that I have had severe period bleeding ever since my first shot, like out of control. I mean, like golf ball size. And like I have had a period for 20 years, you know, before that. And then one month after I get, you know, the vaccine, I started having these yes, severe bleeding. And the more and more I would talk to people, they would say, oh my God, same thing. Like, I always had a normal period and all of a sudden I have this like severe, severe bleeding. So I made this post again just to bring up this. Whether or not it was caused by it or it's a correlation to it. And that was taken down for community guidelines violation by TikTok. Okay. And again, this is not an anti vaccine post.
- [38:18]
Heather McDonald
Well, I won't, I won't cut, by the way. I won't be cutting this part of the clip. They'll just have to listen. And I've learned that too. Like I spent all this time cutting a great clip and then it gets taken down because you said a no, no word or something. Okay, continue.
- [38:32]
Dr. Erin Nance
Right. So here I am, a board certified doctor talking about the realities of sometimes there are side effects. Right. And I am at this point giving a personal experience story. I'm not saying that everyone is going to have heavy periods because of the shot, but I think if we silence those voices, then that lessens the trust and the credibility in the vaccine itself. And I think that was a major problem is that people were saying that they had real side effects. I mean, they had a tracker. People did die. Okay. This is not something that was made up. Right? It was, you know, it's. I think the biggest problem is it's a coagulation problem. So people were having blood clots and stroke, but to get Covid is also a coagulation problem. And I knew this because I had residents who were orthopedic surgery residents who, during the worst part of COVID we weren't doing ACL repairs and rotator cuff. No one was playing soccer, no one was getting injured. And so all of my big beefy guy residents, they, their job was to go to the ICU and physically flip people from their stomachs to their back so that their lungs could drink. Right. They did this all day long, hour after hour, just flipping people. And what they would tell me is that in their. It sounds gross, but in their Foley bags. Okay, right. The bags that collect the urine, there would be pieces of their kidneys that had physically clotted off because of all of the blood clotting. So I knew very early on that Covid was a problem with blood clotting. It wasn't the people like, oh, the cough, the loss of smell, the loss of taste. But I knew that it was really a clotting issue. So it didn't surprise me that when you developed a vaccine, there would also be overlap in some of the issues that you may see in what Covid was doing itself. Because that's what a vaccine is, kind of like mimicking the disease, but you don't actually get the full blown severity disease. That's why when you get the flu shot, sometimes all my arm hurts, sometimes I feel a little bad. The first, second day you're not getting the flu, you're kind of tricking your body into thinking you got the flu so that it's going to protect you when you really see the flu. Okay. So in my opinion, I think we should be doing more to give visibility and elevate the voices of people who have had adverse events. Not to scare people, but to give people the full picture. Right. Because I think that really did a big disservice to the vaccine. Listen, I am anyone who's listening, I am very pro vaccine for vaccines that have been vetted and are science based. The COVID vaccine is true. It was built in the shortest probably amount of time a vaccine has ever been approved, but the technology had been vetted for decades. Right. And we were in a period of time where it's either we act or we die. And you can't look back, knowing what we know now and say, oh, they should have made these decisions and they should have done that. You make decisions based on the information that you have currently and then you're supposed to, those decisions may evolve because the information, you're going to get more information. And so maybe your recommendations evolve and they have evolved. I believe that the latest recommendations are that young, healthy, like pregnant women are not supposed to get the vaccine. They've made new recommendations. Right, Right. So because of the information that we have since learned. And so I, I think that it was really a case of the two sides just not listening to one another. And if you could step back and understand that the people who are anti vaccine, I think in all honesty, they were scared at their core element. And so instead of talking to them as if you don't know what you're talking about, degrading them, making them feel like they were idiots and whatnot, actually get to the root of why are you nervous about taking the vaccine? You know what, what are some things that I can help educate you that may, you know, may give you a bigger picture. Right. In the end, it's going to be an individual decision, but I think that's where the narrative should be and not this name calling, you know, other sides.
- [43:10]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. I'll never understand the, the anger that people had Whether you got it or you didn't, I was like, I'm getting it because I just want to wake up in the morning and not get worried that I have it. And I travel and I'm still doing standup. I had friends who did it. I had friends who got the fake card so they could go on things and do things. And I was like, okay, like what? I never understood that. But, like, pointing at someone being like, if you don't wear a mask and get this, then you're killing my grandma. Like, I was just like, it was just such a weird time, but also time that I want to say, like, never forget, which is, like, so insane. It was so insane. Glad it's behind us. But I think that's, you know, that's great advice. And again, it's people. It's people. It's humans that we've never faced with this. And people make, you know, make. Well, exactly. You make wrong decisions. Look throughout the history, like, you didn't know about the radioactive. Whatever thing we didn't know about children of thalidomide. Like, there's things, you know, that happen throughout time because doctors and medical people are human. They're not gods. And, you know, and that's why I do think it's so helpful to have people say, I had this too. Or, you know, but it's also. It's also kind of crazy. It's good, and it's bad when someone will say, you know, someone's doing a video and they're, you know. And then it's like, what's that thing behind your ear? You need to get that checked out. And it can be really helpful. But at first, it could be like, oh, my God, like another criticized criticism, you know, Yes, I have a crooked nose, and I guess I have a little skin tag behind my ear. It's not a skin tag.
- [44:54]
Dr. Erin Nance
Da, da da, da, da, da da.
- [44:55]
Heather McDonald
You know, and it's like. And I get why people are just like, enough, or they don't want to be the person that says, I would have that mole checked out or whatever. But I appreciate it, you know? And I also think there's some funny moments because I got a letter sent in the mail about someone diagnosing me with a major disease and my son, but not my other son. And my other son opened it, and he was like, you and Drake have this disease, but I don't. And I was like, wait, what? And it was like, he sent it to my P.O. box, and it was, like, typed out anonymous. And I'm Like, I personally think it was a hater that wanted to fuck with me because I don't have it. But it was just like, there's something just so strange about it. It can be so positive, but it can also be negative, too.
- [45:40]
Dr. Erin Nance
Yeah. I think, again, it goes back to question the source of the information. Right. And there are incredible examples of people saving their life. I mean, I think it was Tarek El Moussa was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Right. From a viewer who wrote to him and said, I'm really concerned about you. So, yeah. And I'm sure you're a public figure, so you are getting, you know, and same thing with me, only I get all these messages, people asking me to diagnose them, like, can you take a look at this picture? And they'll send me like 20 pictures on an email. And to me, that conversation is best happen, happens in doctor's office. Right. And similar to you may gather pieces of information from strangers, from people you watch. Right. On TikTok. And what I tell people, again, who are either struggling to get a diagnosis or trying to figure out, like, what's. No one can figure out what's wrong with me is I tell them to use TikTok to look for patterns of similar symptoms that you have. It doesn't mean that you have that same disease that that person in the video has. But then you can have a more educated conversation with your doctor to say, hey, I have X, Y and Z. Do you think that I could have pots? Right. And then when you go to your doctor and they're going to say, well, Heather, you've only had one fainting episode. You don't have any of the other signs and symptoms. So I would say it's low likelihood. That's a productive conversation. It's not your doctor rolling your eyes saying, oh, you saw this on TikTok, right. Like, our job is to help educate you and to not make you feel stupid or silly for bringing something up. I can't change every doctor's opinions about TikTok. And so most of the times I'll tell people not even to mention where they found the information from. But I think a more educated patient is a better patient.
- [47:40]
Heather McDonald
I agree. I think even sometimes when I'm talking on my show and I'm like, oh, my God, I saw this thing on TikTok. I know that there's people driving, going.
- [47:46]
Dr. Erin Nance
I'm not with a TikTok content.
- [47:49]
Heather McDonald
But you're right. You probably should just say, a friend of mine let me know that she read an article saying this and immediately, you know, someone might be like, oh, well that is interesting. You know, and, and a good doctor should never be like, you know, closed off. But that's why the whole thing comes with like second opinions and all that kind of stuff and looking for, for different things. One of your videos said that you regretted if I, if I were calling it correctly, you regretted getting Lasik eye surgery. Can you speak on that?
- [48:18]
Dr. Erin Nance
So for me, I have used contacts since I think I was in maybe the sixth grade. And it was never necessarily a problem, but it was the whole like ordeal. If anyone who wears contacts, you know, it's just, you know, your eyes don't feel great at the end of the day. And particularly I think because I make most of my social media content from 10:00pm to 2:00am that's the time of day that I have free to make these videos. And so my eyes were just, they had reached kind of their max, I would say. I got pink eye one day and I'm like, you know what? I'm just kind of like done over the contact thing. So My father had had Lasik eye surgery with literally the doctor who invented Lasik eye surgery. He is fantastic at what he does. I think the procedure itself went really well. I have 2020 vision, but I also have significant eye pain and dryness every day of my life. And I think like certainly I knew that.
- [49:19]
Heather McDonald
Do you just do drops or what do you do to succumb it?
- [49:22]
Dr. Erin Nance
Yeah, I just do drops. I've had a couple of different types of drops, like gel drops, other drops, Maibo, which is the latest pharmaceutical commercial on tv. And it's not, I would say during the day I'm not even thinking about it. Like right now I'm not thinking about my eyes. They don't feel bad for me. It's when I wake up and maybe starting around like 6pm I really feel pain, which I had never felt I pain before. So just knowing what I know now about how I am living post Lasik, I would never choose to get Lasik. And I think it's very important for people to understand. I don't blame that doctor. I don't think anything went wrong with the procedure. I just don't think I appreciated what that specific side effect could, could be like for me going forward.
- [50:19]
Heather McDonald
Also speaking of, I didn't see you talking this. I don't know if you come but like, you know, there's all these plastic surgery options that you can get for less expensive. If you go to Turkey. Let's Say, but I always wonder about, unless you're like on botched, where they are doing a TV show to fix you. I feel like, you know, it's like when you're getting your kitchen redone and your contract disappears and then the new contractor doesn't want to come and finish it because he doesn't know what mistakes are done. Do you find that, like sometimes with doctors too, like, they don't want to fix the mistake of someone because they could, you know, it's like a lot, such a liability, 100%.
- [51:02]
Dr. Erin Nance
And what I'll say about medical tourism, which is what you're describing, is that it's not that the physicians in these other countries are substandard or whatnot. It's about the follow up. It's about the potential side effects. And that's getting back to the beginning of the show when I talked about getting the Ozempic off of tv. It's not that taking the Ozempic is necessarily a problem. It's the what happens if you develop pancreatitis because of it? Who's managing that for you now? And so with these medical tourism places, if you have a side effect, you are shit out of luck. All right? And now you're going to have to present to an American er and they're going to. They have no idea what was done to you or the methods that they use. And they're going to be left cleaning up the mess. And I will tell you, as an orthopedic surgeon, many orthopedic surgeons, as a policy will say, we're not seeing anyone who's had a surgery by someone else in the last year because they don't want to clean up. That's their job, to clean up their own mess. It is very difficult to find a doctor who is even willing to take on your case when you have a side effect. That's why I really stress about the patient doctor relationship. We know that side effects and complications happen for the vast majority of cases. It is not because of negligence or something wrong that the surgeon or doctor did. It's just, it's part of the numbers game, right? 10% of people are going to get infections. And that is really the test of the relationship between the doctor and the patient is how well you can handle that complication together. And I think a big problem doctors have is a lot of times we put our head in the sand and we don't want to acknowledge that something is wrong, right? Sometimes it's it's fear of being sued. Sometimes there's A lot of reasons why they may not. But in the end we're only doing detriment to the patient by not acknowledging it and acting on it. I mean, I just saw a patient who, she had surgery on her wrist. She developed something called complex regional pain syndrome, or crps, which is one if not the most painful conditions that is known to man. Okay. They call it the suicide disease. It's your body, your brain is telling your, or your body's telling your brain that your hand is on fire, but it's not on fire. Right. And this patient had surgery, she had all the classic symptoms and it wasn't until six months later that they even acknowledged that she could be having CRPs. Right. When this happened, two weeks after surgery. So she, and all this time she's thinking she's crazy. Right. I swear I'm having, like you don't believe me. And that's, I think really the biggest problems is getting the patients to be believed by their doctors in some of these cases.
- [54:09]
Heather McDonald
And do you feel that women are less believed?
- [54:12]
Dr. Erin Nance
100%. That's. Yeah, 100%. And it's not just even with male doctors, it's female doctors as well. It's the system. And part of it is, and I use this example all the time, but if you're a 50 year old woman, you go to the ER and you're complaining of some chest tightness and difficulty breathing, they're going to tell you you're having a panic attack and send you home. Versus if you're a 50 year old man, you come in with chest tightness and chest pain, you're going to get an ekg, you're going to get a troponin level and they're going to make sure you're not having a heart attack. But in reality, more women die of heart attacks than men. But if you close your eyes and you think, who is someone who's having a heart attack? It's Mr. Big on the peloton.
- [55:01]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, right.
- [55:02]
Dr. Erin Nance
That's, that's who we've been conditioned to think of as who's having a heart attack. And so a part of it is just awareness for the general population. And there are so many symptoms or diseases that present differently in women than in men, like stroke. Women are so much more likely. They may complain of shoulder pain or back pain or a headache. Right. They may not present with the classic droopy face and weakness in the arms and legs. So part of it is educating the general population. Some of it is undoing some of the bias that we as physicians have been taught. Right. And this all boils back to. Women weren't even included in research studies until 1993, in part because of. And you mentioned it. I'm. I'm kudos for you for knowing this, but that those. Thalidomide, you know, debacle. And for your audience who may not know, I believe it was in either the 50s or 60s, they came out with a new medication to help with morning sickness in women. The medication was primarily rolled out in Europe first, and so that's why there's not as many American women. But what happened is that the babies who were born were born with limb deformities. It looks like they have a flipper for their. For their limbs. And this was an unknown. It's called teratogenic side effect, an effect on the fetus. And so because they said, well, we never want to repeat that and have anything that could potentially harm a baby, they just said, no more women. We're not even putting them in the pool. And unfortunately, that had significant repercussions that we are still dealing with to this day.
- [56:51]
Heather McDonald
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I always remember that from years ago when, you know, someone would say, you know, men always say, don't get hysterical. And the word hysterical comes from hysterectomy. That's. I don't know if that's right, but that I always thought, yeah, it's. It's, you know, a guy can, you know, get angry or, you know, want to do or stand up for whatever, but a woman, it's, oh, my God, don't get hysterical. And then you immediately, you're like, so. I mean, in any. It's. It is that kind of bias, and it is that kind of thing of just like, oh, of course, you know, how women react to things differently. And, yeah, I mean, when you just think about how much is spent on Viagra and making sure that men in their, you know, 60s can still fuck their third wife, that's an important thing. But women going through menopause, I feel only recently, like you said the midi stuff, that now people are like, you know, with me, my friends are like, you know, we had a birthday party, and I was like, all we did was talk about AI in our businesses and menopause. And I was like, finally, by the third night, I said, can we just, like, stop? Because they were just like, heather, I can't believe you aren't on anything. Like, you. How are you sleeping? And how could you not be on the pellets? And the peptides and the blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, well I don't know, like right now I feel fine. But no, no, it's more than that. Like it'll protect your heart and your body brain and did it. And I was like, it can be really overwhelming too. And I'm like now I don't even know where to start. Like I don't even know what to start, you know, of what I'm supposed to be on or take and like what's before we conclude because I know you gotta go, you're so busy but like what is your advice to women who maybe are in menopause but they don't really have any symptoms but they by not taking something, it might not be good in the future. Which is kind of me. Like I've had a pretty easy. Haven't had my period. I was so happy for the period to be over with. Like I think it's the greatest thing about getting older is that we don't get our periods and we can't get pregnant. I think that is the best thing that is not celebrated enough and that that 60 year old ex husband can have to start a whole new family with some only fans bimbo. So I love it and I'm fine with it but I'm like, oh my God, I guess I should be taking all this stuff. And then people say no, don't take that stuff because if you don't need it then it can cause breast cancer. And like what's your advice?
- [59:17]
Dr. Erin Nance
So I will say something that is this research has been debunked which is the taking estrogen, you know, causes breast cancer. That is a study that was debunked many years ago. But unfortunately, because that is just in the lexicon of, you know, people still think that that's number one. Number two is I go back to we just have not dedicated the research dollars and the research manpower or woman power to study things that are important to us. So for example, you just talked about the great benefit of not having a period anymore, which is what people think of like oh thank God, I don't have to use tampon anymore, I'm not going to get pregnant. But the problem with now not having estrogen is what we are only now kind of really learning about. And this is what your friends were telling you about protecting bone health, protecting brain health. Okay. We have known forever that women are affected. I think it's 2 to 1 for dementia. All right, why is that? Why, why is that? Well, only now Are we understanding that there is a protective effect of estrogen? And it makes sense. When we go into menopause, we have lost the ovaries. They're just little estrogen factors. Right. So we've lost the protective effect. Same thing. Why are older women at such increased risk for breaking a bone when they fall? It's because they've lost that protective estrogen effect. So again, I'm not the expert. I'm an orthopedic surgeon and I'm not the hormonal expert. But I think the problem is that if you just go to your general practitioner or your general ob gyn who is not in the habit and practice of prescribing hormone replacement therapy or other peptides or whatnot, you're never going to get it. So it's kind of an. Unfortunately now it's being branded as like longevity, but it's in essence preventative medicine. And it's kind of a hard ask for people. You're a perfect example. You're like, I feel great, I feel fine. Why would I mess with this? Why would I add something that's more complex? And it's, we're asking you to take a leap of faith to do something that's going to protect you in the future. But you know, don't just take it because whoever the influencer of the day showed up on your fyp. Right. I think it's about having, going back to that foundational relationship with your primary care provider and ask them, do you have experience with prescribing hormone replacement therapy? And if they say no, then that's not the right person to talk to about hormone replacement therapy. Right. Anyone who has experience with that, they should be able to tell you whether you are a candidate or if you are not. All right? You don't want to go somewhere where they're putting everybody on something. Okay. That's not right either. So you want to go someone who is reputable, who is board certified and you know, this is not an ad for midi, but I just, I know that that is kind of their wheelhouse for women who are in perimenopause and menopause and it's at least clinician backed. So for me that I have much more comfort in recommending people to go to those sources than just, you know, whatever you see on, on social media.
- [62:58]
Heather McDonald
Well, I appreciate it. This is so great. My last question is, would you ever want to be like the female Dr. Oz and do like a TV show? Have you been approached?
- [63:09]
Dr. Erin Nance
I am filming a pilot next Friday and Yes. So, but I will. I will say that I. The platform that I built feel better, which isn't launched yet, but it is meant to be that safe and trusted place. And where I think Oz got it right is that he was really distilling complex medical topics into simple, digestible, engaging ways. But where he kind of went wrong was that he got into the recommending the supplements and whatnot and turned it more, I would say, into a business proposition. So I tell everyone, question the motive of the source, and for right now, my focus is on medical education and patient advocacy.
- [63:56]
Heather McDonald
Well, I hope it goes. And I love where your career went and that you, you know, I'm sure you still do surgeries and whatnot, but how lovely that, like, you're able to have this great platform. You're now an author, and hold up your book again and tell everybody where they can get it because it's really juicy and it's fun and it's not dry like your vaginal walls. If you're of a certain age, it is a good read.
- [64:26]
Dr. Erin Nance
You know, the quotes by the authors. Not dry like your vaginal walls. I love that. No, thank you. And that was. Anyone who has read the book tells me that it's such a quick read and a fun read. And I wrote it to be like Chicken Soup for the Soul style so that you could just read one chapter. If you're like me, I've got like 20 books on my nightstand where I've read one chapter each of all the books. And it is. It is juicy in that it is a real insider's look, you know, behind the curtain at the hospital. You know, fun fact. This has already been optioned for television, so hopefully it is your next Grey's Anatomy or Pet.
- [65:04]
Heather McDonald
Who could you see playing you?
- [65:06]
Dr. Erin Nance
That is a great question.
- [65:10]
Heather McDonald
Because if you're not watching this, she's very attractive.
- [65:13]
Dr. Erin Nance
She has. Well, I'll tell you someone who I spoke to, but we ended up not being able to make it work was Emma Roberts. So Emma Roberts was. Was interested in playing me. But. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you one thing. My husband wants Ryan Phillipe to play him. So that I think is more wicked.
- [65:36]
Heather McDonald
When they follow your story and you have to do a podcast interview with an inappropriate host. I hope that you actually use me and I will be available. So There you go, 100%. Or diagnose my fainting on stage. That could be an episode and I'd like to play myself. They get some young girl, like, one time, one time I was on a celebrity ghost stories. And I'll be honest. I don't really think I had a ghost, but they asked me if I had a ghost story, and they were gonna pay me $6,000. And my kids were in Catholic school, and that's expensive, so I kind of exaggerated how scared I was. And as I told the story, they had people. They had a person, like, reenacting, doing stand up, who just. I'm sorry. Was not cute enough. Was not cute enough. So if you're not gonna use the real me, I will send you a list of pretty women that I would like to play me.
- [66:29]
Dr. Erin Nance
You've got them on speed dial? Yeah. Yeah.
- [66:32]
Heather McDonald
Thank you so much. And you can follow her. Ittlemissdiagnosed everywhere and get the book. Thank you so much, Aaron. I appreciate it. Dr. Aaron. I appreciate it. Thank you.
- [66:44]
Dr. Erin Nance
Thank you, Heather. Hey, everybody, it's Nicole Byer here with.
- [66:47]
Heather McDonald
Some hot takes from Wayfair.
- [66:48]
Dr. Erin Nance
A cozy corduroy sectional from Wayfair.
- [66:52]
Heather McDonald
Um, yeah, that's a hot take.
- [66:53]
Dr. Erin Nance
Go on and add it to your.
- [66:55]
Heather McDonald
Cart and take it.
- [66:56]
Dr. Erin Nance
A pink glam night stand from Wayfair.
- [66:59]
Heather McDonald
Scalding hot. Take it before I do. A mid century modern cabinet from Wayfair that doubles as a wine bar.
- [67:06]
Dr. Erin Nance
Do I have to say it? It's a hot take.
- [67:09]
Heather McDonald
Get it@wayfair.com and enjoy that free shipping, too. Wayfair, every style, every home.