← Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
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- [00:00]
Heather McDonald
This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com, booking. Yeah, guys, summer's around the corner and I know we're thinking family vacations. Let's take the kids somewhere. Maybe you've got a couple weddings you want to hit. All of that involves booking the perfect place. That's why I love booking.com, booking. Yeah. No matter who you are, booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah.
- [00:30]
Nikki Boyer
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- [02:55]
Heather McDonald
Now I have to share a game changer which is Spot and Tango Dog food. And I feel so much better about giving her fresh food and supplements and snacks that I know are going to keep her going longer, stronger, healthier, happier life. She deserves it. She's the best. She's gorgeous. I mean, come on. Spot and Tango is offering an exclusive deal for our Juicy Scoopers. For a limited time, go to spotandtango.com Juicy Scoop and use code Juicy Scoop to get 50% off your first order. That's spotntango.com Juicy Scoop code Juicy Scoop to get fifty percent off your first order. Spotintango.com JuiceScoop code Juicy Scoop Juicy Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.
- [03:42]
Jenny Slate
When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales For real life, Mr. Segment, serial data and cereal Sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
- [04:00]
Nikki Boyer
Listen in.
- [04:00]
Jenny Slate
Listen up. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop.
- [04:07]
Heather McDonald
Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. We've got White Lotus, we've got Hot Topics and we are dying for sex. That's right. I have a great interview with Nikki Boyer who she came on before. She is the executive producer of the hit show Dying for Sex starring Michelle Williams. Her character is Jenny Slate's playing it. Amazing. We had such a juicy interview. It's so interesting how the TV was made. The truth behind their real life experience and the podcast that inspired the TV show. So we have that interview, but first I have to talk about White Lotus. So I'm gonna talk about White Lotus. But I know some of you are not interested and didn't watch it or are saving it. So you can skip about 12 minutes and then I do a couple hot topics and then we've got a really juicy interview with Nikki Boyer about dying for sex. Okay, now let's get into the White Lotus finale. You know, this is the third season I've watched the first two still. My favorite was probably the first one which was Hawaii. But I thoroughly enjoyed it. There's so few things that I'm like excited to watch on a weekly basis. So with that being said, let's get into it. I did have a hard time sleeping, thinking about it constantly. So then it was good. If it kept you thinking, it was good. I know there's a lot of criticism out there, but I thought it was good for a lot of reasons. For one, my favorite thing in the whole series at the end was the massage therapist and her son, who was so cute, named Zion was his character's name. He comes and. I love that. I loved their relationship. I love that he was a business student. I love that he had his mom's back. I love that he encouraged her to be more ruthless in business and go to Tanya's husband and say, 100's not enough. And I thought they were gonna go for a million. And he went for 5 million. And then she got up, and then she was in on it. Like, I just loved that they had such a special relationship. Being that, you know, my son's graduating from business school a little bit, and. And he has a great business mind. I just liked that relationship more than anything. The part that I think is really interesting that a lot of people might not be aware of is there was a storyline cut out of it. And that was. Of the three women that were in their late 40s, high school childhood friends, the one woman who gives an incredible monologue at the final dinner with blonde hair. She was the woman who was an attorney and lived in New York and, you know, didn't seem to be. Not totally fitting in as well with her two best friends, who was the actress and the girl who was religious and, you know, and talked about her pastor. So the dynamic was all really interesting, especially to someone like me. But in that moment monologue at the end, she says, and I'm just really happy to be here, and I'm happy that you have a beautiful face to the actress, and I'm happy that you have a beautiful life. And I was like, okay, that's kind of a dig. Like, why, if you really wanted to be nice to your friends, where you kind of had a weird two weeks and there were some issues with them, but you are there. I'm like. I think she's saying this because she has had some weirdness in her life and with them, but at this point in her life, she does not want to lose them as friends, even though they kind of had a weird week. And she doesn't know if she really even likes either one of them. She doesn't. I think she knows if we met. If I met them today, they wouldn't be my people. I wouldn't be friends with them. But we do have a history like sisters. And I don't want to not be friends with them anymore. So I want to stay Friends, I want to be invited to the next free trip by the actress. But at the same time, the fact that neither of them thought it was a dig that she said to an actress that obviously is on a hit show that everybody loves. She's like, I'm glad that you have a pretty face or whatever she said. Why wouldn't she have said, And I'm so glad that you are on this hit show that brings so many joy to so many people. It's really wonderful. And I'm so glad that you are just so happy in your community and where you live and the life that you like. She could have said, said it in a with that the compliment had more substance. Now, what I found out is she. What I thought was interesting in that monologue is she goes, I thought it was going to be. I thought my religion was going to be my work. It wasn't that. I thought it was going to be love. It wasn't that. I thought it was going to be motherhood. It certainly wasn't. That's not fulfilling me either. But it's time. And that was like, it was a really great monologue. And however, I was like, oh, I didn't even know that her character had kids. None of them talked about their kids. So I was like, oh, I would have assumed maybe she didn't have kids. And that was like one of her regrets of looking back. Well, one of her storylines that Mike White decided to cut out is that she had a child, a daughter who was non binary, possibly trans. And Mike White decided to cut that out of the story after Trump won because he felt that it didn't have enough of a place in the series and therefore he didn't feel like he was giving it enough of a spotlight that it deserved. So therefore he just decided to remove it altogether. I think that was a big mistake because I think that's really interesting and I think it would have added to what she was going through, what she was struggling with, you know, her position in New York, her life, how different her life looks than the Leslie Biz character who's at church in Texas. So that's pretty juicy. Wasn't aware of that till I started to, like, look up stuff last night, of course, with the Southern family, the Parker Posey family. I thought it was really great. Coco Moko, who has been on my show video came across that she put together. That's all the moments that the dad said the exact same lines that Thomas Ravenal from Southern Charm on Bravo has said over the years and put them Side by side. And I definitely think that those characters. That he was inspired by Southern charm. I really do believe that he said in his interview, Mike White, after the show ended, that he had seen or read something about a man who was facing financial ruin. And rather than face his family and tell them that their lifestyle was changed, he annihilated the entire family. So I was just popped up and like, nerves a shaking when he was making these poisonous shakes and decided that the one younger son could survive with less money. So therefore he wasn't gonna let him drink it. Not thinking about how fucked up his life would be if he woke up the next day and his whole family was dead. And so when he has that second thought and knocks the drink out of the other son's hand. I really loved that storyline. And I love that it ended that part because it was like, you know, ending your life voluntarily and all that is such a horrible thing. And maybe this will be a memorable scene to somebody if they ever are in dire straits. So. And I do think it's a common story that happens with men whose whole identity is wrapped up with their money and they're the main breadwinner. We saw it happen with that influencer recently in the Hamptons where her husband had ended his life for the exact same reasons. Rather than face it or tell her that, hey, we can't have a Hamptons house anymore. Hey, you can't shop here or whatever, get your extensions out. He'd rather, you know, he's in such a place where he goes there. It's like a very. It's not even, like, depression. It's like a real reason of why I can't go on because of this. So I thought that was great. And then, of course, with the son, I couldn't believe that the son wouldn't rinse out the blender. But I was so happy that they let him live like that. I didn't. That's who I cared about living. I didn't ever. I never really cared that much about the English young girl with her bunny teeth, though I found her very appealing. I didn't really care about her relationship with that. I didn't care about that guy searching for his dad. That whole story. I was like, really? Somebody killed your dad? And you're gonna find him now at this point in your life and he was killed when you were not like the whole thing, I don't know. It wasn't explained well enough. I kept waiting for. For there to be some other, stronger connection to him and some of the Other characters, and there wasn't. But I was fascinated in the episode where she saw him again and she loved him so much. And she's like, if something bad happens to you, it happens to me. And it was like, I'm like, why are you, this young girl, so attached to, like, this much older guy? Is it just because he took you two weeks to this, you know, very nice vacation? I mean, he isn't a billionaire. Like, why are you so in love with him? But the fact that he loses it and kills the dad to only find out he is your father. Like that Star wars moment, which I'm not a Star wars person, so I didn't like it. And I was just told by my editor that one of the stories online was that the wife was going to turn out that she was trans and she was actually his father. And I would have much preferred that, as I think that would be a juicier twist. But anyway, then when his girlfriend ends up getting killed as well because he's so out for revenge. And that whole storyline of then the thing you love the most, very Romeo and Juliet kind of a thing. But I'm like, dude, you never cared about it. You didn't care when she was bit by the snake. You didn't care when she was robbed at gunpoint or whatever happened at the store. You never really cared that much. You acted like she was like a mosquito around you the whole time. And now you're like, no, I really do love her. And so I think that's a good lesson for girls to see. To not throw away your life for a guy. Don't think that you can change them, especially when they're as old as he and know they can do better. It's always these, you know, how many women are in prison right now because of the man they were with? Either they were helping them out, do a drug deal or something, or they were, you know, complacent in some other crimes they were doing. Or, you know, or put them above their children. Like, don't. Like, no man is worth it. Especially when they're running through danger. And then here they're taking the photo, Gunshots are going. The three women are running. And then we see them on the. On the boat, like, laughing, still having, like, a great time, you know, back. Going back to the States. Like you. Maybe they were a little shaken up, but I think you'd be way more shaken up if you were dodging bullets and witnessed, like, several people get killed right in front of you. So I didn't think that was very realistic. But I loved the final scene with Parker Posey and the three kids and the dad knowing that once they get their phones back, the news is gonna come that he's in trouble and their lives are gonna change. And he realizes we are a strong family. And of course, let's get to the incest. So how great was it that just the little brother was a people pleaser? He wasn't necessarily in love with his brother or gay or whatever. He just said, I felt like you were left out. And I know that how much you like to jerk off. And so I just thought I would lean over and help you. I'm like, okay. I don't even think my sons will wash each other's plate if I ask them to. So thank God for that. But kind of like that there was a little more to it, that there wasn't some weird shit that happened. Oh, that we also never knew why Leslie Bibbs, the blonde cute girl from Texas went up and said that to Parker Posey. Oh, we spent a weekend together or we were at our friend's baby shower. Our mutual friend. And she was. So everybody thought that that would come back at the end of the series, that either she knew her or there was an affair or something. No, she was just a dismissive bitch, really. It makes me wonder, just like the storyline that was cut about the non binary daughter and they were supposed to say they them and then she would get confused by it or correct her friends. That whole story being cut out because Mike White felt it was not necessary. I'm like, was there something else cut out? But then you decided to keep that scene because you just loved the way Parker Posey was like, no, I don't know you. Piper plays and I did love the scene when she came back from doing the Buddhist Night and was just like, I don't think I can live like this. Like it is small. And. And I mean, that would be awful that you raise your daughter one religion and then she's gonna just go be like a monk after you paid for all this college and everything. And you don't know where she'd end up after a year. And it's weird. So I love that she was like, thank God. So all in all, like, I. Oh. The other thing I was gonna say is I was a little confused, I guess just the fact that. That the massage woman had some relationship with Tonya Jennifer Coolidge in the first season and knew that he now is in Thailand, was her husband at one time. I was like, well, she didn't really have anything on him. And if he's in Thailand and he bought this house and he could Google that he inherited all this money from his wife, what does she really have on him? What does she know about the murder? That's what I didn't get. Why he felt he had to give her so much money to silence her. And of course, she shouldn't open a business with a guy that she knew for two weeks. And by the way, they didn't massage anybody. So what is this special spa? Really? Burke Williams is supposed to be shaking in their boots over this, and then she's gonna. So I didn't feel like she screwed him over at all. They hung out for one or two weeks in this resort. They boned once, and now, no, she should not share her 5 million and put him on. If she wants to open her own line of spas, she should make her son the CEO or the CFO and, like, do her own thing her own way. And so I loved that she didn't, like, drag him along just because she had, like, a little fun vacation sex. So all in all, like, really stuck with me. I love the show, and I can't wait for the next season, which I hope it doesn't. I hope we don't have to wait a year and a half. I hope it's, like, already being filmed or at least been written. So we talked about Blake Lively did a fun little PR thing, helping with the donut shop. And, you know, the girl can't catch a break. So a lot of people were made complaints. The fact that she got behind the counter and was, like, doing something with donuts and had her hair out like mine, which you cannot do when you're working with food. You got to do the hair net, least put it back. And so then this particular bakery was flooded with bad Yelp reviews to the point where Yelp had to, like, stop and really see how many were inspired in the last couple days over, you know, Blake Lively's flowing hair. Interesting. Cause she has the, you know, had the hair products and whatnot. And what was truly, you know, a real disgruntled person that, you know, had a hard bagel two weeks ago. So, you know, you gotta be careful when you. You think you're gonna have this great thing happen in this PR event for your. For your bakery, and then this happens. Also, there was another story by the New York Post that Blake Lively revealed that it was her idea to touch co star Henry Golding's privates while filming A Simple Favor. So I assume that was from the first Simple Favor, which was, you know, a very sexy show. Again, this is just their, you know, just the people are building their case of, like that. It's unbelievable to think that she was really feeling like she was being sexually harassed by Justin Beldoni. So that's another article. Now, this one was so interesting. And this comes From Drama TikTok OQ is this girl's name who did this. And so she found an article in a long time ago, Blake Lively was on the COVID of Marie Claire, and she did this interview. And this really stuck out to this creator in which Blake said, when I was three, I was really tall and my brother was a little nervous about going to kindergarten. So my mom just sent me to kindergarten with him. And after a few weeks, they thought I had something wrong with me because I just wanted to take naps and I couldn't do the work because I was only 3. And this story is 100% BS. It's 100% made up, in my opinion, because she grew up in Tarzana, which is where I grew up. And I also put my son in kindergarten for, like, he went to one year public kindergarten because his birthday was October 29th, and. And the Catholic school wanted him to be the age before September 1st. And I was like, okay, he'll go to kindergarten, then just probably do kindergarten again, which he did. So we put him in the public school in kindergarten, which they would take him as long as he turns five by, like, whatever, January 1st back then, they probably have already moved it back. But you have to show birth certificates, all this stuff. You can't just put your kid in because that would be like, oh, I'm just looking for free daycare. Like, no, they would have had to have immunization shots and doctors. I mean, there's a lot you do. You don't just throw. So the story is just a weird story that just doesn't make sense. And in people grabbing all these interviews, it is strange and it's funny. It almost sounds like a standup story or something that wasn't true. Like, it just. I'll give her this. Maybe the mom said. Maybe the mom told her that. Maybe the mom joked. Maybe it was the mom story that said, oh, you know, you were so tall, you wanted to go to school with him. And one day I took you there. And they're like, well, when is she ready to start? And I was like, oh, my God. You know, like, we don't know where the story really came, but there was no way that you were enrolled in school for weeks. And so again, it just adds to how truthful, how comfortable is she retelling stories that are not totally true or completely created? So that's where we are with that. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com booking. Yeah, guys, Summer's around the corner and I know we're thinking family vacations. Let's take the kids somewhere. Maybe you've got a couple weddings you want to hit. All of that involves booking the perfect place. That's why I love booking.com booking. Yeah, because every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the US I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options, from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. Like, I'm sure you will as well. I know this summer, Peter and Drake are doing a golf trip and Brannon and McKenzie and I want to go meet them at the tail end of it. So when we go meet them, I've got Brannon and McKinsey. So we're going to need two rooms so that Mackenzie and I will share. Brandon will have his own. We want to make sure that everybody can get up when they get up, get something to eat, go for a walk in a safe, cute neighborhood. And that's why I love booking.com. no matter who you are, booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah. You guys know I've talked about Irestore, which is absolutely amazing for the regrowth of hair. But now I want to tell you that there's even better results with Irestore Elite. You pair it with the Revive and Max Growth kit and the Revive Biotin vitamin gummies. The Revive and Max Growth kit is like a full on hair care squad that works from root to tip. So it includes the advanced hair growth formula, thickening shampoo, thickening conditioner, and growth activated serum. Everything you need for healthier, fuller hair. Trust me, your hair will thank you. And if you subscribe and save, you can save 25% or more plus free shipping on the ultimate hair care upgrade. I absolutely love their thickening shampoo and conditioner. It is making my hair feel fuller every day. And it's just, it's a great feeling when you're in the shower lathering up, knowing that your hair is going to have awesome results. Give yourself the Gift of Hair Confidence. This spring, for a limited time only, our Juicy Scoopers will get $625 off their iRestore Elite. When you use the code juicy scoop@irestore.com that's $625 off irestore elite@irestore.com with the promo code JuicyScoop. Please support our show and tell them we sent you Hair loss is frustrating. You don't have to fight it alone. Thanks to Irestore, some people get a haircut or book a spontaneous trip when life throws them a curveball. But Molly, she went a little further. After a life changing diagnosis, she dove headfirst into a world of no strings attached sex, secret rendezvous, forbidden affairs, sexcapades and unforgettable adventures. It wasn't just about pleasure. It was about feeling alive, embracing desire and rewriting her own story. And every wild, outrageous and heartfelt detail unfolds in Dying for Sex, Wondery's award winning podcast that's now a TV series starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. But there's even more to the story in brand new bonus episodes. Host Nikki Boyer sits down with the cast to spill all the spicy details from behind the scenes moments to what it was really like. Bringing Molly's unforgettable journey to life, desire, friendship, self discovery and the ultimate bucket list of pleasure. This is a story that had everyone talking. Listen to the original Dying for Sex plus new bonus episodes on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge the original series before anyone else completely ad free on Wondery. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have return guest who has an incredible Hollywood success story. I think as you're sitting here, Nikki Boyer, you guys may remember from my old Juicy Scoopers and you are probably familiar that she is the creator of the show that's now on fx Dying for Sex. But the story behind it, you'd come on Juicy Scoop to talk about because it is the story of you and your friend. And then it became a podcast. Which why that's why you're on juicy scoop in 2020 to promote this podcast that was on Wondery and now and I remember we talked and I'm like this could be a TV show. And you were like, so I want to know now that, now that it's here, I want to know like the whole process because I didn't realize, I was like, oh, that was a pretty quick turnaround. I mean it wasn't. It was four or five years ago, right? But it's so amazing. So this is on fx. Michelle Williams plays your best friend.
- [29:10]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [29:11]
Heather McDonald
She plays where you guys came up with this whole thing based on her life. And then Jenny Slate plays you, which I think is really good casting.
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Jenny Slate
Agreed.
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Heather McDonald
Yes. So. So let's just go a little bit back. First of all, our history with each other is very much E oriented. You were always like, a panel girl, a red carpet girl. You're best one of Ross Matthews best friends. She has a lot of best friends, myself included. Drew and I included. But no, you guys really are close, and you've done a lot of podcasts and projects together, so we've known each other through that.
- [29:48]
Jenny Slate
We've been backstage together quite a bit.
- [29:50]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
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Jenny Slate
And at people's weddings together.
- [29:52]
Heather McDonald
We had so much fun at Ross's wedding.
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Jenny Slate
How fun was that?
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Heather McDonald
It was, like, the funnest. I'm like, can anybody else please get married again and have everyone I know go to it and go to Puerto.
- [30:01]
Jenny Slate
Vallarta on a vacation together? Okay. And free cocktails.
- [30:05]
Heather McDonald
That was the best time ever. Yeah.
- [30:07]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah.
- [30:07]
Heather McDonald
I think it was one of the most fun weddings I've had.
- [30:09]
Jenny Slate
Oh, I love that.
- [30:10]
Heather McDonald
It was really good.
- [30:11]
Jenny Slate
That man, he's just been a constant support to me. And, I mean, we've been friends for over two decades almost.
- [30:19]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
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Jenny Slate
So, yeah. And I married him, and he married me. He married me and my husband. And I married him in Wellington. Isn't that cute?
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Heather McDonald
How did the two of you meet?
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Jenny Slate
On a red carpet.
- [30:29]
Heather McDonald
Oh, really?
- [30:30]
Jenny Slate
Yes. Yes. We met on a red carpet. I was actually working it. I was working it and then attending it.
- [30:36]
Heather McDonald
Okay.
- [30:37]
Jenny Slate
He was working it. And I walked up to him. I mean, we have a photo of this night. I look like a toddler in a dress. Like, I'm so young. I was, like, 25.
- [30:46]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
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Jenny Slate
And I walked up to him. I think I was a little tipsy. We started laughing. I was like, I think you're great. I didn't really know who he was, but I knew he was someone who did something fabulous. And I wrapped my leg around him and said, we're gonna be best friends.
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Heather McDonald
So this is before Chelsea lately, but he was doing, like, Tonight Show, Ross the intern. Oh, my gosh. That's so great.
- [31:07]
Jenny Slate
My whole body around him. Not much. Can't believe he's called me back. But we've been friends since that night.
- [31:14]
Heather McDonald
I love it. Have you ever had a big fight?
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Jenny Slate
Such a good question. No, no.
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Heather McDonald
That's great.
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Jenny Slate
I mean, we've had disagreements about things, but, like, he's really hard to fight with. I Like, to fight.
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Heather McDonald
Yeah.
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Jenny Slate
No, he's just so good.
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Heather McDonald
He's such a good soul.
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Jenny Slate
No, we've never had a fight. We're gonna.
- [31:36]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, he just inspired it.
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Jenny Slate
I'm gonna call.
- [31:40]
Heather McDonald
Okay. So let's talk about. Let's go back. I know I asked some of these questions five years ago.
- [31:46]
Jenny Slate
No, but I love it because you had your. You said. You said to me, I think this could be a TV show. And I was like, mm. Like, I couldn't say much, but I knew back then that it was on the road to that.
- [31:57]
Heather McDonald
Okay.
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Jenny Slate
And I wanted to tell you, but I had, you know. And also, I was afraid to jinx it.
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Heather McDonald
Right.
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Jenny Slate
You were so spot on. All the things that you said about this and that you kind of predicted all happened, so.
- [32:08]
Heather McDonald
Really? Oh, my God. Now I want to go back and. Well, I just, you know, I have this prediction, stuff that happens.
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Jenny Slate
Are you clairvoyant?
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Heather McDonald
Well, I just had a thing where just the other day I was like, we were talking about housewives, and I go. I go, oh, I just got a prediction. It's not good. I feel like Garcelle's going to leave.
- [32:28]
Jenny Slate
And then she just made the announcement.
- [32:29]
Heather McDonald
And then within 12, like, I don't know, 20 hours later, I woke up to the announcement that she did leave. And so I immediately was like, oh, my God, I have to do a video of, like, where how one of mine come true. It's never anything. Like, it's not like I could predict, like, a war earthquake, but, like, it's just kind of. It's stuff in the business, too. But also, like, I think I am a good manifester, but I also now, like, I don't know, something about being in the business long enough where I'm like, this. They should do this, or I could see this happening, or whatever. Good. So let take us a little bit back about your friendship. What was her name, by the way?
- [33:07]
Jenny Slate
Molly. Molly.
- [33:08]
Heather McDonald
So how. How long had you guys been friends? And what, like, tell us about the friendship of how the friendship started.
- [33:14]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, we met in an acting class in Los Angeles in our early 20s. And I remember I had, like, a pixie haircut at the time and was like, hey, everyone. Hi. Like, social in the room and kind of bouncing around and flirting and trying to make everyone, like, think I was desirable and cute because that. Because I was 25 or 24, and I noticed Molly, and she at the time had really long brown hair and crystal blue eyes and was very, like, striking, like, looked. I always called her an alien model because she had these cheekbones and this perfect, flawless skin. Never really wore makeup. And I just noticed her and she was a little quiet. Unbeknownst to me, she was completely judging me and was like, I don't like her.
- [33:57]
Heather McDonald
Cause you were just too perky.
- [33:59]
Jenny Slate
You know that thing like, like, like.
- [34:01]
Heather McDonald
Like, you know, the.
- [34:02]
Jenny Slate
Basically me now.
- [34:03]
Heather McDonald
But do you know the expression the pick me?
- [34:05]
Jenny Slate
I was a pick me with a pixie. That was me. I was. I would have punched myself in the face if I was this age now. I'd have been like, sit down, shut up and call. Just calm it down.
- [34:17]
Heather McDonald
Right?
- [34:17]
Jenny Slate
And there were these guys in the class that were twin brothers. And I had known them from working at restaurants previously. So we were like talking and flirting and Molly was like, oh, of course she knows. Like, yeah, yeah. Flash forward. A few weeks later, our acting teacher paired Molly and myself up together to work on a scene. And that changed the trajectory of everything. Because I don't know if we would have spent that time getting to know each other if we weren't working on a scene. So I think I need to send that acting teacher a thank you card. Cause I never really put that together.
- [34:49]
Heather McDonald
So then you become really good friends. And at that time, was she. Were you. Were you both single? Or had she already. Was she with her husband?
- [35:00]
Jenny Slate
No, she had no. Cause I was actually with her the day she met her husband at a restaurant. We were together. I was already dating my ex husband now. And I think. And so Molly was very much. She was kind of the friend where you become fast friends and then you can go a few months and not talk. And then the next thing you know is you see each other 55 times. And then. So we had this ebb and flow in our relationship, but she was always a steady. But she wasn't the kind of friend that I would invite to like a happy hour or a party. Cause she didn't drink. And we did best one on one. Like we just really wanted to be together. So I always saw her very separately. She wasn't kind of like the friend's friend. So our time together was always really intense and intimate and fun. But it was always really one on one. Like six hour lunch. One on one.
- [35:48]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Heather McDonald
So then what happened first? Did you. Were you just being friends and she found out she had this severe cancer diagnosis? Or were you already working on something creatively together and then heard it?
- [36:05]
Jenny Slate
That's such a good question. Because I think we always secretly wanted to work on something. We just didn't know what because I was an actor and a host, and she was really a writer, so that we couldn't find anything to match up on. But when she got diagnosed with cancer the first time, she beat it. Double mastectomy, went through chemo, radiation, the whole buffet, as she calls it, and then was in remission. And then I remember when she called me and said something was going on with her hip, and this was like, five, six years later. And I just. I didn't even think anything of it. I was like, oh, it's probably because you're just on the elliptical too much. And then she called and said, no, actually, the cancer's back. And that's when they diagnosed her as metastatic, which is terminal. And that is the moment that everything shifted in our friendship, really, because we started to work together, but also in her sex life, because she said, I do not want to live my last years in the way that I've been living. So she decided to leave her marriage in her, as she's, like, the sickest she's ever been, decides to leave her marriage, gets an apartment near me, and decides to go on this. I mean, sexual journey of, like, having as much sex and as much fun, doing as much fun physically with her body that she possibly could. And that was the moment when she was telling me. We were in front of Trader Joe's on Hazeltine, and she's like, oh, my God, I just had sex this morning. I'm like, it's 11:00am where were you? And she's like, well, we met at the Dunkin Donuts. And then we made out in the parking lot. And then we. And I'm like, who has sex at 9am at Dunkin Donuts? And I'm like. I literally said, heather, this is a show in my mind. And then I said to Molly, this is a show. And I said, and I think it's called Dying for Sex. Like, the title just, like, came to me. And she was like, let's do it. We didn't know what the hell fuck it was gonna be. We were like, I don't know what this is. But we decided in that moment we were gonna do something together. And then we did.
- [37:55]
Heather McDonald
So then how did it work? Like, were you. Cause I can't remember. Were you, like, writing? Did you put down a tape recorder? Like, did you think podcast at this time? Cause what year was this?
- [38:07]
Jenny Slate
This was 2016. So podcast, like, you know how podcasts didn't you have.
- [38:13]
Heather McDonald
Were you working? Didn't Ross had one before me? But. But that was not with You. I don't think so. Did you have one at that point? Okay.
- [38:21]
Jenny Slate
No, I. The. The. The closest thing I had done to a podcast was dip in and hang out with Ross. But, like, I didn't really understand what a podcast was, to be honest, and especially the kind that Wondry does where it's like a limited series podcast. So this is so cool because it brings it back to Ross there.
- [38:38]
Heather McDonald
Oh, yes.
- [38:39]
Jenny Slate
I was doing that show with Ross because the CEO of Wondery came in to say hi to Ross, and I was like, oh, hi, nice to meet you. So flash forward years later.
- [38:49]
Heather McDonald
Wait, hold on. I also want to say sorry to bring it back to me.
- [38:53]
Jenny Slate
I love bringing it back.
- [38:54]
Heather McDonald
First of all, Ross is the one who said I should have a podcast to you when we were. When he was at podcast one. And then I did podcast one, but then when I left and went to Wondery, I introduced Wondery to Hernan. Wait, what? Yes. Because then Ross was at Wondery for a minute. Right?
- [39:11]
Jenny Slate
You introduced Ross to Hernan to Ross.
- [39:13]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
- [39:14]
Jenny Slate
So I have you to think.
- [39:15]
Heather McDonald
I guess.
- [39:16]
Jenny Slate
So let's really bring it back to.
- [39:18]
Heather McDonald
You because Ross was then at Wondery for a minute. Yeah.
- [39:21]
Jenny Slate
And that's when I met Hernan, who was the CEO at the time he came in. I met him briefly, and then it was kind of a, yo, it's nice to meet you. And then flash forward when Molly and I were like, do we make a TV show? Do we make. What do we do? Like, how do we do this? Do we write a one sheeter? I mean, I've been in the business.
- [39:35]
Heather McDonald
For a long time where you pitch a show. Yeah, yeah.
- [39:37]
Jenny Slate
But there's no real formula of how to pitch a show. And she wanted to write it. And so we started a script, and we started a one sheet. And then eventually we were like, we should just start getting pitch meetings. And we pitched it. I went to New York. I took like five or six meetings.
- [39:53]
Heather McDonald
For it to be a scripted series.
- [39:54]
Jenny Slate
For it to be a scripted series. But everyone we met with, they were lovely, but they didn't quite understand the depth of it. And when you're dealing with someone who is terminal and who is very creatively has a lot of creative integrity, like Molly did, she didn't want to cheapen it. She didn't want it to be like Sex in the City, you know, which. I love Sex in the City. But she didn't want it to be. She wanted it to be unlike anything anybody had ever seen. And I was like, well, that's A tall order, my friend. But she was right, because it didn't need to be like a Cosmo article about girls and cocktails and sex, because it wasn't about that. It was about getting really comfortable in your body, healing old wounds, all that, blah, blah, blah. So we decided to sit down and start recording. A friend of mine owned a production company and was like, you should just. Let's just get some studio time. And we did exactly what you and I are doing.
- [40:46]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [40:46]
Jenny Slate
But we spent hours and hours sifting through all of her sexual escapades and going through, like, let's pair this guy with this guy, and that'll be an episode. And so we recorded a bunch. And then I said, wait, that guy from Wondry should I send, like, maybe I'll reach out to him? And so by that time, Heather, Molly got really sick and she was in the hospital, and we realized she wasn't coming out of the hospital. So I emailed her non. And he came to the hospital and met Molly on her deathbed on February 14, on Valentine's Day, three weeks before she died. And he's like, we're gonna do something. We'll do something with your story. We're gonna make this something amazing. I mean, how great is that?
- [41:28]
Heather McDonald
And then also, the other thought was really interesting that I remember from our last interview is that she willed you her life story.
- [41:37]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [41:38]
Heather McDonald
How does that work? Like, she gives you the ip, the intellectual property, which we just said on another show that that's all the thing. That's the only thing that's selling right now, like. Like fresh, creative ideas that aren't based in true life or based on a documentary or something, for whatever reason, they're not going for those. So this already is. Was something that people were looking to do.
- [42:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. And it's funny because now I have my own production company and I'm getting people's ip, and I'm now, like, because of Molly, I'm able to now tell other people's stories. But you're right, there was something really raw and special about it, but I don't think we knew. I think we thought it'd be really fun to record. Let's make a podcast. And I really did think that would be the end of it. But when Wondry paired me up with Stephanie Jens, who was my producer at that time.
- [42:27]
Heather McDonald
Your podcast producer?
- [42:28]
Jenny Slate
My podcast producer at Wondry, she sifted through everything with me in a way that was just unreal. Like, went through Molly's book, went through old recordings, went through. We did Interviews with some of the guys she had slept with. But taking it back to your original question, which I forgot.
- [42:44]
Heather McDonald
Cause I have menopause, which was about her willing you. Even though. Because, you know, I assume she had some living relatives. She had the. Now, was he officially the ex husband?
- [42:57]
Jenny Slate
No, not officially.
- [42:58]
Heather McDonald
So she had a husband. So, like, that's a very conscious thing that she did. What was that discussion like?
- [43:03]
Jenny Slate
It was. It's funny you ask that, because I hadn't thought about it in a really long time. But looking back, like, we were full on doing business in her hospital bed. We had. She was like, I need to will you. My book, my likeness, all my photos, my phone, every. Everything about me I have to will to you. And I was like, okay. Like, can't we just.
- [43:25]
Heather McDonald
Like, how did she know to do that?
- [43:27]
Nikki Boyer
She's.
- [43:27]
Jenny Slate
She is so fucking smart. She was just a really smart woman. And she also knew that legally we needed to have a document to give it to some. I mean, right. Just not a random friend, but you know what I mean? Not a family member. So we were taking meetings with, like. We had a lawyer, my lawyer. We had her family lawyer in the room coming in, drafting things up. We were talking and laughing. It made us feel so normal, like we were still working together. But she willed me everything. So I think she secretly knew deep down, like, that this was gonna do something or. Why would you go to such great lengths? But she wanted to protect it. So.
- [44:06]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Jenny Slate
So that I had the free will to do what I wanted with it. I know. Isn't she cool? There was, by the way, there was this lawyer that came in and she was so sick. And she was. I mean, she was months from dying and didn't leave the hospital for that chunk of time. She was very, very sick, but still had her sense of humor. And there was the lawyer that came in at. He had on an interesting hat. And she's like half out of it. And she looks up and she goes, ahoy, matey. Because he had like a sailor kind of a hat. So I still don't remember his name. But I just know every time he.
- [44:38]
Heather McDonald
Came in, we'd say.
- [44:40]
Jenny Slate
And he didn't know why. So we were still laughing when we were, like, getting this legal stuff all figured. One of my favorite stories about her.
- [44:49]
Heather McDonald
And so did. Did she have parents? And how did they feel about the fact that she was just being a reckless, you know, sex fiend in her last, like, what, year of her life?
- [45:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, it was, well, I'd say two to three years. Okay, she went for it. So. And it ebbed and flowed with her illness. Right. Some days. Some days she'd feel great and someday she'd be wiped out. But, yeah, for about a couple years, I think, off and on, she was having these little fun sex sexcapades. But her dad, I mean, listen, no dad wants to think of their daughter in that way, but fully supported. It was just like, you do you enjoy, right?
- [45:24]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [45:25]
Jenny Slate
And I think her mom was a little like, oh, okay, all right. Well. But there wasn't a ton of parental judgment.
- [45:33]
Heather McDonald
What was her relationship with sex prior to this? Was she very monogamous? Was she religious? Like, why did she feel that she hadn't, you know, done everything she wanted to do in that department of life?
- [45:46]
Jenny Slate
Well, she writes in her book, so I always like to bring it back to her own experience of when she was a little girl. And she speaks about this on the podcast and in her. But something really tragic happened to her when she was seven years old, she was sexually molested by someone in her mom's life. And I think in that moment, and she says it, that she. She was kind of split and kind of fractured in that moment. And then sex became really uncomfortable and weird and. And she didn't quite heal from that. So then when she was looking for partners, she was really looking for safety. And there was really not, like, she didn't really screw around like I did in my 20s. Like, my 20s were just like, dancing around and having sex with whomever I wanted to. And she wasn't doing that, so I don't think she ever got that. And then she immediately got into a monogamous relationship and then gets cancer and then loses, really, the drive for sex. But then when she got diagnosed as metastatic and terminal, something shifted and the fire was lit and she was like, couldn't wait to have sex with people.
- [46:55]
Heather McDonald
And how does she. I'm sure we'll see it in the scripted show, but, like, how does she tell her husband? Because did they have. Did he think they had a decent marriage anyway here he had stuck by her side through these illnesses. Was that. What was that like to tell somebody like, hi, life is short and I don't want to spend it with you. I want to, like, be. I want to see 12 other, you know, dicks this week?
- [47:17]
Jenny Slate
Well, I think it started off as cyber sex, right? Who says cyber sex like a 90 year old? It starts off with cyber sex, but at the time that's what we called it. But. And I think he was really open to her doing that because. You mean.
- [47:30]
Heather McDonald
You mean just like, virtual?
- [47:31]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, virtual.
- [47:32]
Heather McDonald
Okay.
- [47:32]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [47:32]
Heather McDonald
Okay. Well, I'm like, do you mean you meet someone online? Because doesn't everyone meet any Someone online? But meaning not. Not meeting anybody in person.
- [47:42]
Jenny Slate
Physical. And then she kind of confessed it to him and said, I've been sort of exchanging these. And he was very supportive because he understood. He was also her caretaker at the time.
- [47:54]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [47:54]
Jenny Slate
And it's that dynamic. I can't even dip into trying to be sexual while also caring for someone or being cared for. And I just don't think that that was a part of Molly that she had really tapped into and picked a partner that maybe didn't match up with the desire she was having now. So I feel like he was really supportive at first, and then I think when she wanted to take it into real life, that's when the separation happened. So, yeah, it was not comfortable at all. But at first there was a lot of support there of like, yes, you want to get into your body and feel sexual, and maybe this virtual sex is the answer for you now. But she wanted to take it into the real world, so she moved out.
- [48:36]
Heather McDonald
So. Okay, so then when you decide you're gonna go with Wondery to do the podcast.
- [48:39]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [48:40]
Heather McDonald
Was the desire to go with Wondry over anybody else? Because he was like, I think we can make this a TV show.
- [48:46]
Jenny Slate
So I sent the email to the. The CEO of Wondry with Now. At this point, Molly was about a month away from passing. I didn't really know that, but I knew we were getting close. And I thought, I have these 10 episodes of my Best Friend and I don't want her to. Ugh, Makes me so sad. I don't want her to die without knowing with thinking this is just in my computer and not in the world. So I was gonna release it on my YouTube page, and I was getting ready to put the episodes up and just release it. And I thought, I'm gonna email that guy from wonderyback Hernan. I'm gonna email him back. Cause I never heard back from him. So I said, hi, following up on this email. Never heard back from you. I'm gonna release these in the next four to five days. Let me know if you'd like to speak.
- [49:30]
Heather McDonald
So you gave them to him to listen to too?
- [49:32]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I sent him in a random email.
- [49:35]
Heather McDonald
Okay.
- [49:35]
Jenny Slate
I had sent it, like, maybe a month prior, and then I never heard back. And this is such a good lesson of, like, always follow up, because he never got that first email. He's Like, I either didn't get it, or it got lost in the shuffle. Do not release them. Come to my office and let's have a chat. So I went in, I met with him, and then five, six days later, he went to the hospital and met Molly. And it was all just very. I don't know. I hadn't thought to go to another podcast company. I hadn't really. I just kept thinking, oh, I met that guy through Ross, and Ross met him through you. So really, thank you. Back to you.
- [50:10]
Heather McDonald
Oh, no, please, no.
- [50:12]
Jenny Slate
But I am. Those kinds of things are not on accident. Those things happen for a reason. And I do. I think if I would have released it on YouTube, it would have been a really great homage to my best friend. But now it's like this powerful story that I could tell not just from my perspective, but my other producer, Stephanie Jens, helped me really sift through and go, what's gonna make this? What is gonna make Molly's out there journey? What's gonna make it understand, be understood by other people? How do we tap into this humanity of this? And I don't think I knew what that was at that time until I went through that process.
- [50:51]
Heather McDonald
So you guys do the podcast, and then how does it come about to. We want to make this a show.
- [51:00]
Jenny Slate
So Molly passes. An entire year later, the podcast is released on Valentine's Day, or Galentine's Day, they call it. Do you know what Galentine's Day is?
- [51:10]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, it's just celebrating the love of.
- [51:13]
Jenny Slate
Girls until then, which I love.
- [51:16]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [51:16]
Jenny Slate
So we released it. And then before the show had even, I think, gotten to the air with Wondry, like, episode one hadn't been released yet, we were taking meetings with amazing showrunners. Cause Aaron Hart, who works over at Wondry, he's a TV guy over there, we were setting up meetings. So we were meeting with showrunners, meeting with people that were interested in the story. When I. I mean, I had heard Rough Cuts, and they had heard Rough Cuts, but there was already this, like, weird thing. And I'm going to these meetings, Heather, and I'm, like, all dressed up, and I'm thinking that I'm, like, pitching to the showrunners, like, here's my story. Hope. Hope you want to. But they were actually in.
- [51:58]
Heather McDonald
They.
- [51:58]
Jenny Slate
They were pitching themselves to us to produce the show, which I had never been in that position.
- [52:02]
Heather McDonald
Never been in that position? No, no. Never in, like, only anything. But, like, hopefully they'll give me a validation for the parking when this never goes anywhere.
- [52:11]
Jenny Slate
100%. I was still the pick me girl. I was still like, hey, everyone, so thanks for coming. And they were all. The people from. My friends from Wondery were all like, why are you.
- [52:20]
Heather McDonald
So we're choosing, like, we are this. Like, we're the hot, you know, selling. We're the listing on the street, and it's a hot market and everyone wants to buy. Just. Yeah.
- [52:30]
Jenny Slate
And then I started to get clear about how powerful the story was, which I knew, but I don't think I knew knew. And then we took meetings, and then eventually we met with Liz Meriwether, who is my showrunner. And then she.
- [52:42]
Heather McDonald
And what are some other things that she's done? Because I know the name is familiar to people.
- [52:47]
Jenny Slate
Liz did the Dropout, which was the whole.
- [52:52]
Heather McDonald
Oh, my God, that's good. What would you do if you could save your uncle from dying of cancer? I love. I love anything Elizabeth Holmes related. I. You know, she's in prison with a former real housewife, Jen Shaw, and they are pickleball partners. No, in prison. Of course.
- [53:12]
Jenny Slate
You know this.
- [53:12]
Heather McDonald
What? Yes.
- [53:13]
Jenny Slate
Who gets to play pickleball in prison?
- [53:15]
Heather McDonald
They all do now.
- [53:16]
Jenny Slate
Oh, gosh.
- [53:17]
Heather McDonald
It's a big. It's a big deal in prison.
- [53:18]
Jenny Slate
I play pickleball down in the desert. I don't play pickleball. I bought a pickleball.
- [53:22]
Heather McDonald
Oh, my God. I love pickleball, and it's not going away, and I'm thrilled.
- [53:25]
Jenny Slate
Okay, well, we need to do that.
- [53:26]
Heather McDonald
I love it. I love it. Okay, continue.
- [53:29]
Jenny Slate
So.
- [53:30]
Heather McDonald
So she did drop by the throw.
- [53:31]
Jenny Slate
Out, but before that she did New Girl. So she had great, great comedy chops. Understood, like, really telling fun, deep stories that were very funny. Great sense of humor. And then to Dropout. And so when I met with her, when we met with her.
- [53:47]
Heather McDonald
And the Dropout had, like, weird, funny moments, too.
- [53:49]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, it did, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's just so amazing. And then she brought in her partner, Kim Rosenstock. So I had two amazing women. She was only murders in the Billy.
- [53:59]
Heather McDonald
Like, just.
- [54:00]
Jenny Slate
I mean, hello. So, yeah, we started working. It was a very long process, though, because we met in January 2020, and then Covid hit then.
- [54:09]
Heather McDonald
Then all the strikes.
- [54:11]
Jenny Slate
So here we are five years later, and the show's coming out, and then this.
- [54:16]
Heather McDonald
And what I love is. So it's on fx, but then of course, you can stream it on Hulu as well.
- [54:21]
Jenny Slate
It's only on Hulu, so I think.
- [54:22]
Heather McDonald
It'S only on Hulu.
- [54:23]
Jenny Slate
There's a lot of. It's fx For Hulu.
- [54:25]
Heather McDonald
Got it. Got it.
- [54:26]
Jenny Slate
Right? And Disney, which always makes me laugh when I'm like, watch Dying for sex on Disney.
- [54:31]
Heather McDonald
I honestly have such a hard time, like, even figuring out tv. Like, I'm, I'm always like, someone's like, oh, it's on Lifetime. I go, I don't even know how to watch Lifetime.
- [54:40]
Jenny Slate
That's when you just take your remote and go look for.
- [54:42]
Heather McDonald
I need to do all that stuff. Because it's like, but Hulu, I know how to do that. I know I had, you know, my app has. I do the little house. That's all you got. And then I go to the thing and then I can click on that and I can get that. So that's April 4th. You.
- [54:58]
Jenny Slate
It was so easy. You don't have to just like one.
- [55:00]
Heather McDonald
It's like, what are you gonna do if I've got. I'm like, I'm gonna hire a little man that, like, lives in that can that's not as scared to, like, light the fire pit. I'm scared to light a fire pit. I don't know how to work the TVs. I'm just like.
- [55:13]
Jenny Slate
And I was worried about sounding old saying cyber sex. You're like, no, you're a scary company. It binges. You can binge.
- [55:20]
Heather McDonald
Okay, great.
- [55:20]
Jenny Slate
April 4th, all eight episodes drop on Hulu or Disney, produced by FX. And it's just, I mean, okay, the.
- [55:26]
Heather McDonald
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- [56:49]
Nikki Boyer
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- [59:02]
Heather McDonald
So now did you ever have any like short list or who you thought could play you? Because it's really the friendship of the of you and Molly.
- [59:14]
Jenny Slate
Here's the cute part about Molly is whenever we would do that fantasy like, who would play you in a movie, by the way? Who would play you in a movie or a TV show?
- [59:23]
Heather McDonald
I actually have no idea. I mean, I would have to explore. Well, I'm hoping that when I sell my TV show, which, by the way, I have the perfect show, it's my book, you'll never blue ball in this town again, which is about my life from 18 to 30. I, I'm the opposite of your friend. I was an old virgin. I didn't have sex till I was 27, but I, I would never admit it. I'd act like I was kind of slutty on stage. I'd write all those slut jokes. I would, you know, dry hump a lot. And I never understood like, you know, but I, but then I was like, people or things? No, people. I just like, well, you know, and then I would, you know, would. I was like, well, now I've waited this long. Like, I don't want to just sleep with someone, so I'll just have to wait till he's my boyfriend. But then in that day and age, the 90s, like after a guy and back then, guys took you out on dates. So it's like, pick me up, take me. I always had like a nice meal that they paid for and then like I'd make out, no, I'm not gonna sleep with you. And by the third date they were like, this chick just doesn't like me. And then I was like, well, I'm waiting for you to say you're my boy. But I never said I was like a virgin. So there's all these stories that I had. So I wrote a book about that. And then when it came out, like, came out in like 2010, it was weird because I was kind of like, well, now there's texting and all this, but the thing that makes it work is that it was the 90s and there was answering machines and, and leaving a message and you could play the rules. And it was a whole different thing. So now I feel that that could be a show now because I feel like, I feel like Gen Z is thirsty for the 90s. They're like, what's it like to, to have dated without social media and without phones and like, what is that even like? And so I love this idea, but I don't, I, I don't know who could play me. I'm sure people, people sound off and emailing. Who you think like would be a, you know, a 25 year old version of me there, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't care. Only once did I have someone do me for like, like, be a young me. And it was ghost stories. Remember ghost stories? Celebrity ghost stories.
- [61:36]
Jenny Slate
Who do played you?
- [61:37]
Heather McDonald
Just some girl. But it was like a very. It would. She didn't look anything like me. I'm tall. She was short. Not to be a. But like, I didn't think she was cute enough. And I was just kind of like. And I'm watching this weird thing because it's like me, like, telling a scary story about this ghost story. That was pretty much BS, by the way. Well, it was like, literally, I did have a. It was weird because the night before I was at the London hotel and in New York doing like a press thing for E. Or whatever. And I was kind of buzzed. But I had this very vivid, weird dream where like this I felt like a man's like, hairy arm in my bed. And it was just felt weird. And I woke up like, that's such a weird dream. While I'm in the airport to fly home, my, like, agent or PR guy is like, have you ever had a ghost encounter? Like, celebrity ghost stories are looking for, like, people to do it. And I was like, I kind of had one last night. And then I'm like, what does it pay? And he's like, $6,000 one day. And I'm like, terrifying. And so I'm like, my life is forever changed from that. Like, before I got call the producer, I talked to my friend who's like into like, ghost hunting, whatever, and she's like, if you're in a hotel, say that the air kept getting cold and hot and cold and hot. And then I was like. Also I kept misplacing my lip liner. So then I was like, was my, like, potential, like, ghost rapist, like, trans? Like, I don't know. But like, I was like. Because I told the whole story about the lip lighter keep being. Kept being like, moved. And then I was like, what is this story anyway? So we watch. We do it. My husband has never laughed harder because he'd never seen me be on TV not being like, funny, like, not doing like a Chelsea. And so I need to. Anyway, so going back to the story, that is when they. They. Then they go. I go. I was. You know, I go, oh, every time I travel, I'm very organized, which I'm not organized.
- [63:30]
Jenny Slate
Why are you such a liar on ghost stories?
- [63:33]
Heather McDonald
Like, very organized. I put my. My makeup and my lip liners in here. And so because that was a big story, that the lip liner kept getting Moved. And so then they show this girl, like, holding a mic, like. And I was like, what? That's me. I didn't like it. So you have Jenny Slate play you, and I do think that's a good match. So, like, how. And she's a great actress, and she's funny, and. And then Michelle Williams, of course. But, you know, I just think the age and. And just their vibe. Obviously, they don't, like, necessarily look like you guys, but how did the discussion come of casting?
- [64:11]
Jenny Slate
Well, we. When. When we brought Liz Meriwether on and Kim Rosenstock as our showrunners, we. Then all of a sudden, I started getting, like, emails from agents and people kind of pitching me celebrities, which was so fascinating to get an email from a really, really famous person's agent saying, hey, take a look at her reel. And here I am sitting, and I can't say any names. I wish I could, because I was just like, I'm gonna be watching blah, blah, Blah's reel to be like, is she good enough?
- [64:41]
Heather McDonald
You know, is she good enough to play me?
- [64:43]
Jenny Slate
So weird. And there were so many options for Nikki, but they really couldn't cast Nikki, really, until they got their. Molly and Michelle, I think, had gotten pregnant and had a baby. And then the strikes, and then it just kind of. It kept going and going. And finally, once Michelle locked in, we were off to the races because we knew we had the perfect Molly. She looks like her. She embodies her. She is, like, so good as Molly. And then after that, we really.
- [65:10]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah.
- [65:10]
Heather McDonald
With someone at that caliber, they don't have to read or anything. She doesn't have to audition?
- [65:15]
Jenny Slate
I don't think so.
- [65:16]
Heather McDonald
No. Right.
- [65:17]
Jenny Slate
But you know what? Jenny came in and did a chemistry read with Michelle. Oh, she came in and did it. She was like, of course. And I love her. She went in, and once they got together, it was like fire. And they just knew that she was right for the role of Nikki. And I can't think of a better Nicki.
- [65:32]
Heather McDonald
And how did they do a chemistry test? They actually gave them a scene to do.
- [65:35]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. So I believe. Okay. Gina Bacharach. I don't know if you know her. She casts the bear. She's amazing. And Jessica Daniels are the casting director, so they facilitate that. Michelle comes in. Liz. I think Liz was in the room, and Jenny comes in and just, like, in a room like this with two chairs, and they just sit and do a scene.
- [65:53]
Heather McDonald
And was that incredibly surreal for you to witness?
- [65:56]
Jenny Slate
I didn't get to witness it, but I'm just pretending like I did. But I think what was surreal for me was to hear about it because I would get feedback from, like, the casting directors. They. They tell me the little tidbits of the story. Cause this was all happening, I think, in New York, I want to say, and I just couldn't believe it, that, like, when I remember it was around New Year's, I got the call that Jenny was gonna play me and that we were. We were starting production within like a month. It. It was a long process. But then when it happened, it happened very quickly. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, Jenny Slate. What a perfect me. For the Michelle playing Molly, like, it just felt like the right fit.
- [66:37]
Heather McDonald
And so now. So then it starts getting underway. Where did they film it?
- [66:43]
Jenny Slate
We decided to film in Brooklyn and that Molly was born and raised in New York, so it kind of felt like going back home. And New York is such a. Brooklyn is such a sexy city.
- [66:54]
Heather McDonald
Like, how does that happen? Where the. The stuff took place in la. But they decide, we think, for the sake of everything. Because I personally love any show that's shot in New York. There is something special about that. It's such a character. It feels. It's a whole nother character. It feels hipper, cooler. Like, how does that come about where they say that? And was there any part of you that was like, oh, all right, I imagined us going to Alfred's, but whatever, I think.
- [67:22]
Jenny Slate
Right. Hugo's. For the 12th time. The. No, I wasn't really married to LA. I mean, when they did tell me they were doing it in New York, I was like, oh, hadn't thought of that as an option. I just assumed it would be la. Michelle lives in Brooklyn, Liz lives in Brooklyn. I think a lot of scheduling and a lot of organizations. Yeah. But Brooklyn for me and New York felt like such a great backdrop. It's such a sexier, grittier town than la, where you're like.
- [67:47]
Heather McDonald
And do these characters, are they, like, in the business? Are they actors or are they just friends?
- [67:52]
Jenny Slate
Well, Molly's character is not in the business at all. And Jenny's character is a theater actress, which I thought was interesting that they took some of that from my life. I mean, I started in theater, but the irony here is that I really don't like Shakespeare. Like, I don't. I mean, I've seen some good Shakespeare, but, like, it's not my jam. But Jenny loves Shakespeare and, like, quotes it all the time in this. So I. In the show, and I just think it's really funny.
- [68:19]
Heather McDonald
Like, yeah, I don't know.
- [68:20]
Jenny Slate
I just think it's super funny. I love when they take liberties and make it so funny and make it so. I mean, it's not. It's all based in the truth, but they took so many great liberties and kept so many beautiful little sweet moments. Like, there was such a nice balance of making it their own, but also staying true to me and Molly then.
- [68:41]
Heather McDonald
Now, as a. As a. You're being your life story, the creator, like the ep, but you're not the writer.
- [68:47]
Jenny Slate
You're not the director.
- [68:49]
Heather McDonald
Like, how much do you get to say or show up, or you just sit back, collect the check, and wear a cute dress to the event?
- [68:57]
Jenny Slate
Well, a normal person would do the latter, but I was like, let me in here. And Kim and Liz were so, so great. They always called me. They said, molly's the North Star of this project, but you are our North Star as well. So I got to be in the writers room. It was all virtual. I got to sit on the phone and do timelines and outlines, and they would. I mean, we would get on the phone for hours at a time, sifting through. So I was very, very involved. I think at first there was a little worry of, like, am I gonna be that person? Well, that's not how it was. Or, why are you changing that? The podcast was there. Molly was so held sacred in that space. I felt like this was a re. Imagination of the show. And, I mean, I trusted. I mean, hello.
- [69:39]
Heather McDonald
They know what works. Yeah.
- [69:40]
Jenny Slate
So I just trusted it. And there were very few times that I raised my hand and said, hey, question or let me. But I felt really. And I felt very involved, and I felt really seen and heard in all of it.
- [69:50]
Heather McDonald
Now, how do you feel about, like, life after death? And have you had any moments where you feel like, wow, that was a sign, or, I think she's here.
- [70:02]
Jenny Slate
Ooh, that's good.
- [70:04]
Heather McDonald
How do you sit with that?
- [70:05]
Jenny Slate
Well, the fact that when Molly passed away, I was laying. Her mom was laying in the bed next to her, and I was in the chair sort of facing her, and my hand was on her leg. And Heather. I fell asleep, and something woke me up, and she was sedated, and her mother was asleep, but something tapped the underneath of my fingers. And when I woke up, I woke up for her last two breaths, and there is no way that that was happenstance. Like, she woke me up to say, it's time. You need to get up. And I was with her, and I put my hand on her chest and my Hand on her head, and I said, I'm here, and I got you. And she took her final two breaths, and there was something.
- [70:51]
Heather McDonald
Was that her mom awake?
- [70:52]
Jenny Slate
Her mom was asleep.
- [70:54]
Heather McDonald
Because she didn't want her mom awake. I bet. I bet she wanted you for that moment to then go and wake up the mom.
- [71:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, that's how it went. I mean, she kind of orchestrated it. I love that you just said that. Yeah, she. Something tapped my finger, so much so that I thought a nurse was in the room hitting my hand. And I was. So to answer your question is like, I do believe that our brains could never understand what's on the other side. I love when people are like, well, I know my faith says this. And I was like, well, none of us know. We don't have a clue. And faith is beautiful, by the way. Have it. I love it. But we have no answers. But when things like that happen, there's no denying that something outside of our human selves was in that room waking me up. So I think there's. I think there's something else out there.
- [71:43]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [71:44]
Jenny Slate
What do you think?
- [71:45]
Heather McDonald
Well, there's interesting signs. Like, my parents have passed.
- [71:48]
Jenny Slate
Both of them. Oh, gosh.
- [71:49]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. And I remember one of those, like, interesting, stronger signs that I had is that I was, like, on a girls trip or something, and we were waiting to, like, get our. To go get our massages. And I told this story about my dad, which I just know that my dad would love this story. And it's about when he was in advertising and he fought in World War II against Japan, and now he was going to Japan because he was an executive for Toyota.
- [72:17]
Jenny Slate
Okay.
- [72:18]
Heather McDonald
And then he's meeting with these guys that at one time were also in the army fighting him. And he was like, this is so weird. And the ridden he got there, they stood up, and they're like, oh, McDonald Marine. And, like, bowing to him. And it was this amazing thing, and it was this amazing story of capitalism after war, whatever. So I told the story, and then I go to get. To go get my massage right after. Like, right after. And she goes, oh, and let me show you to your locker. And your locker is 34. And my dad's football number was 34. And every passcode, bank, everything was 3,000, 434. For everything? Yeah, for everything.
- [73:00]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [73:00]
Heather McDonald
And I was like, yeah. So I'm like, oh, he's loving that I'm telling the story. So sometimes there's just things like that that I just think are just too coincidental or if you Open your mind to the signs or when you think. Or even when people are just, I think, alive. Like, all of a sudden, like. Like, I just had a girlfriend call me out of the blue, but she was still in my phone to just ask me about my. Her son possibly going to asu.
- [73:28]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [73:29]
Heather McDonald
And we've been moving, and literally, a box. The next day, I take. I see a box, and by the third photo, it's just she and I together. And I haven't talked to her in, you know, so long after that. Like, so I do think there's a lot where it's, like, you put it out there. And whether it's your thoughts or this or that somewhere, the universe, whether it's someone from the other side actually manipulating 34 or whatever, you know, I just. I just wondered if this coming to fruition, if there's any signs or anything that you felt like.
- [73:57]
Jenny Slate
I've been asking for some signs because I'm kind of the Lone Ranger doing this without her. I feel a little bit of that guilt of, like, oh, my God, all of this is happening and she's not here.
- [74:07]
Heather McDonald
Is there, like, a premiere party or anything that you're going to?
- [74:09]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, we're gonna go. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna go to New York. And I was.
- [74:13]
Heather McDonald
Do you have your outfits together?
- [74:14]
Jenny Slate
I do, I do. I'm glad you asked. I got my lashes done, my nails done. I mean, I went. I, like, left my sweatpants and actually thought ahead. But as I was getting my dress, I thought, she's not getting the dress. Like, fuck, this sucks not having her with me. But yet, without her passing, this story would not have touched as many people as it's touched.
- [74:38]
Heather McDonald
And have you had people reach out and say, I am terminal and I am gonna get my fuck on?
- [74:45]
Jenny Slate
Hundreds didn't even faze me that you said that. Get my fuck on. I want that on the mug. Get my fuck on. Nobody said it verbatim.
- [74:57]
Heather McDonald
Yes, but yes.
- [74:58]
Jenny Slate
I've had so many people that are like, this is. I had one guy who I'm actually working with, a guy who reached out to Molly on her Instagram, but I had her phone, and she had already passed. He didn't know she had passed yet. And he was reaching out, and he's like, I have stage 4 terminal melanoma skin cancer. You have cancer? We're both dying. You're hot. I think I'm cute. We should definitely hook up. And so now I'm working with him on his life story because he is doing what Molly did, but with a lot more, like, adventure and travel and meeting women all over the world and sleeping with them, because he knows he's on a ticking clock and he just wants to explore things. But he reached out to Molly to see if she wanted to, you know, connect. And I had to break it to him that she had already passed away. But the ripple effect of her story, because people don't know she's gone yet. When they listen to episode one, two, and three, they're like, oh, here's this amazing woman.
- [75:54]
Heather McDonald
When we did the promo for the podcast, we couldn't really reveal that it was that terminal. Yeah.
- [76:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [76:01]
Heather McDonald
So people wouldn't spoil her. Yeah.
- [76:03]
Jenny Slate
Which is weird to take your friend's life and be like, don't tell anyone she's dead. But it was kind of, like, wanted to keep that kind of a secret, to give people, like, this journey of falling in love with Molly and then feeling. I wanted them to feel the loss of Molly. I wanted them to feel like they lost her, too, so that they could stop and go, okay, what am I doing in my life? Who are the important people in my life? Who do I want to connect with? Who are the friends I want to be near and kind of inspire those kinds of thoughts? So, yeah, it was like, a secret, and you went with it. I remember you were like, so we can't talk about the fact that she's dead? I'm like, no, it's weird.
- [76:38]
Heather McDonald
I. I'm so happy for you.
- [76:40]
Jenny Slate
Thank you.
- [76:41]
Heather McDonald
I'm definitely going to watch it.
- [76:43]
Jenny Slate
I can't wait to hear this.
- [76:44]
Heather McDonald
I'm dying to watch. I will die from dying to watch it. I'm dying for sex. And, yeah, I remember once promoting the podcast how many people really liked it, and I love that. If you did enjoy the podcast, this is a different ver. A little different of a version of that. And you can have fun with it. Just like you read a book and then you go see the. And you're like, oh, I imagined her to have red hair. Whatever. Doesn't matter.
- [77:09]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [77:09]
Heather McDonald
And. And so congrats and thank you.
- [77:14]
Jenny Slate
Thanks for having me.
- [77:15]
Heather McDonald
It's, like, nominated, and I hope this. It sounds like it's leading to a whole nother. This isn't the end for you. Like, there's going to be other opportunities and other careers. I mean, other things from this, from your career as an EP and taking people's life stories and making them shows, and I think it's, like, a great time for that in the business.
- [77:34]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. Thank you.
- [77:34]
Heather McDonald
And so talk about making lemonade out of lemons, girl. In every. In the best way.
- [77:43]
Jenny Slate
Grinding it. Yeah, I know. Thanks for saying that. I just, I love you and I think that you have always just been a great support and inviting me to talk about her and it like really at the end of the day, all we have are the pot of people around us and how they make us feel. I mean, you've always just been so good to me, so I appreciate it.
- [78:01]
Heather McDonald
It's so sweet. Thank you. Thank you. And tell everybody where you they can follow you like on Instagram or get in touch with.
- [78:07]
Jenny Slate
I am on Instagram. Ikki Boyer. I don't really use anything else.
- [78:11]
Heather McDonald
N I k K I K I.
- [78:13]
Jenny Slate
N I k K I B O Y E R and I'll be posting a ton about the show and behind the scenes photos if anybody's interested. And also Molly's book, like she wrote a book when she was in the hospital as she was dying. She wrote her memoir and what's that called? It's called Screw Cancer Becoming Whole and it's just on Amazon. I self published it and Great. If you're interested, like I just love that she got to be a published author, you know.
- [78:37]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. Well, thank you so much.
- [78:38]
Jenny Slate
I love you.
- [78:38]
Heather McDonald
Thank you everybody. It's on hulu. It starts April 4th and you can binge the whole thing or you can keep it like a little treat.
- [78:47]
Jenny Slate
I like to spread some out.
- [78:48]
Heather McDonald
I like a treat because I don't feel like there's that much good stuff. So I want to get a juicy thing. But I also think if you're flying somewhere. I like doing a series versus like two movies.
- [79:00]
Jenny Slate
No, that's smart.
- [79:01]
Heather McDonald
I feel like the five, six hours go by a lot quicker if you do a whole series, so. And I'm going some way for spring break.
- [79:09]
Jenny Slate
And one more thing is I want to do your show and we got to figure out who we're casting as you.
- [79:15]
Heather McDonald
You'll never blue ball in this town again.
- [79:17]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, we're gonna figure it out. Okay, Putting that out there.
- [79:19]
Heather McDonald
Let's put it out there. Thank you.
- [79:22]
Jenny Slate
And you guys.
- [79:23]
Heather McDonald
Okay, Remember, go to heathermcd.net join the Patreon now. I am going to Augusta. This is the Masters. This is like the final big golf thing where I'm going to see families like the Ravenols and the Radcliffe's or whatever their names were in the fictional family of White Lotus. I'm going to see a lot of rich southern people. I cannot bring my, my phone and take a bunch of videos or anything. So I am going to be talking about it on my Patreon. So you definitely want to join my Patreon. It's so juicy, so great. And there'll be some extra content about this different week. I don't know what to expect. I'm going to Augusta, I'm going to Luigi's. I'm going to these places that you know is where Sutton grew up. So I think I'm going to be meeting some interesting characters because I can't be on my phone, I can't be taking photos and I'm actually going to be like really present and excited and I want to give you all the juicy scoops. So you go to heathermcdonald.net for that. Thank you.
- [80:24]
Nikki Boyer
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone committed a crime in your name. It sounds like a nightmare, but for millions of people each year, it's reality. And here's the scariest part. By the time companies tell you your data was stolen, it's already been nearly a year. 277 days. That's how long on average hackers have to use your Social Security number, open accounts, take out loans, and destroy your credit before you even know you've been exposed. By the time you get that breach notification email, the damage is done. Your identity stolen, your financial future at risk, and the company that lost your data, they'll just apologize and move on. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? This can all sound really scary, which is why I'm so glad we're partnering with Aura. Hackers don't wait, so why should you? Aura monitors the dark web 247 for your phone number, email and Social Security number because the moment they show up for sale, criminals are ready to use them. If Aura detects your info, you'll get an instant alert so you can act before the damage is done. What if your identity is already stolen? Criminals can take out loans, max out credit cards and vanish. That's why Aura provides up to $5 million in identity theft insurance and a US based fraud resolution team that works around the clock to shut down fraud fast and get your life back on track. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down with a VPN for private browsing data broker opt out to stop companies from selling your info, and a password manager to help secure your accounts. Aura gives you the tools to fight back for a limited time. Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day trial plus a check of your data to see if your personal information has been leaked online. All for free. When you visit aura.comdefense that's aura.com defence to sign up for a 14 day free trial and start protecting you and your loved ones. That's aura.com defense certain terms apply, so be sure to check the site for details.