Gina Gershon on Showgirls, Bound and Hollywood Tales

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

Episode: Gina Gershon on Showgirls, Bound and Hollywood Tales

Date: March 26, 2026
Guest: Gina Gershon
Host: Heather McDonald

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Episode Overview

In this lively and unfiltered episode, Heather McDonald sits down with acclaimed actress Gina Gershon to discuss her new memoir, "Alpha Pussy," and her storied Hollywood career. The conversation covers Gina's iconic roles in Showgirls and Bound, the realities of growing up in the San Fernando Valley, navigating typecasting and Hollywood beauty standards, and the evolution of agency and resilience as a woman in show business. Gershon shares candid stories from her memoir, offering both juicy behind-the-scenes tales and sincere reflections on surviving—and thriving—in an industry not always built for outsiders or rule-breakers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Writing "Alpha Pussy" and the Power of Storytelling

[05:02 – 08:45]

• Gina shares her journey writing the memoir:

  • The book began during COVID after her agent encouraged her to document her wild Hollywood stories.
  • Previous books were less personal; Alpha Pussy is deliberate and thematically about claiming agency ("alpha pussy" refers both to her cat and standing up for herself in Hollywood).

• Quote:

  "When I utilized my technique that I did on my male cats...I tried it on the guys who were making me feel strange talking about [Showgirls]. And I realized, oh my God, if I use this technique, it actually works." — Gina Gershon, 08:00

• Heather and Gina discuss the importance of documenting life stories as a way to preserve memories and process experiences.

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Growing Up in the Valley: Nostalgia, Grit, and Comic Relief

[08:45 – 23:00]

• Heather and Gina bond over their shared San Fernando Valley roots.

  • Stories about orange groves, real estate, the changing landscape, and Valley pride.

• Wild Valley Tales:

  • Both reflect on siblings and weed dealing in their youth.
  • Childhood independence and run-ins with questionable characters highlight a free-wheeling, less-policed era.

• Quote:

  "...growing up, I didn’t...I was artistically inclined, but I didn’t have anyone to play with. And then at some point I started doing theater, but no one really took it seriously." — Gina Gershon, 17:22

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Entering Acting: From Local Stages to Beverly Hills High

[23:00 – 26:59]

• Gina describes manipulating her way into the American Conservatory Theater’s summer program at 16 by lying about her age, and her early pursuit of serious training.
• She landed her first professional gig in high school and chose to go to college to "study other things" and mature into the kind of actress she wanted to become.

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Why She Stood Out: Exoticism, Typecasting, and 90s Hollywood

[28:35 – 33:18]

• Gina recalls being considered "too ethnic" for roles:

  • Played Italians, Colombians, Afghani characters—“anything but a nice Jewish girl from the Valley.”
  • Casting directors explicitly labeled her as "too ethnic" on headshots, despite her all-American Valley background.

• Discussion on changing standards, authenticity in casting, and the evolution of "exotic" as a Hollywood label.

• Quote:

  "I made a career of playing Italians or, you know, Colombians, Afghanis, I mean anything but like a nice Jewish girl from the Valley." — Gina Gershon, 32:04

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Breaking Ground with "Bound" and "Showgirls"

Bound: The First Lesbian Screen Hero
[34:52 – 39:00]

• Gershon talks about "Bound" and playing Corky—the first time she was cast as a lesbian lead.

  • Studios wanted the part written for a man; the Wachowskis insisted on a woman.
  • She relished playing the hero, a rare opportunity, and credits the chemistry with Jennifer Tilly for the film’s success.

• Quote:

  “I wanna play Corky. I wanna cut my hair off, cut my nails off, not wear makeup... This is an exciting part. Like, I never get to play this.” — Gina Gershon, 37:19

Showgirls: Infamy, Feminism, and Reclaiming Narrative
[40:13 – 53:35]

• Gina gives a nuanced look at her experience on Showgirls:

  • She saw it as a version of "All About Eve" and played her character as a world-weary mentor/rival.
  • Discusses the cultural whiplash: critically panned at release but now a beloved cult classic.
  • The problematic aspects (e.g., over-the-top sexuality, infamous scenes) and its reflection on American power structures.

• Quote:

  "After 30 years...people cannot wait to talk about Showgirls. Like, it's just like the movie that just keeps on giving." — Gina Gershon, 40:13

  • Gina talks about the confusion in tone between cast/director and studio marketing, and the lasting impact on those involved.

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Hollywood, Sexiness, and Setting Boundaries

[53:35 – 68:38]

• Gina opens up about doing nude scenes, contracts, and how intimacy on set has changed (intimacy coordinators, contracts for nudity).

• She explains her firm boundaries and how she never did anything she wasn’t comfortable with, even if it meant losing roles.

• Quote:

  “…as women, there are so many ways you’re like, 'Oh, ha ha ha,' and then you get out of it. … Don’t put yourself in a situation that could potentially be very dangerous.” — Gina Gershon, 59:10 / 60:16

• Heather voices the difficult reality: standing up for yourself can mean getting blackballed or losing work.

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#MeToo, Casting Couch, and the Manipulation Game

[60:27 – 66:50]

• Gina describes her near-misses with the casting couch, how she navigated egos, and how these behaviors were normalized to the point she almost didn’t recognize them as harassment until much later.
• Heather laments waiting for a famous woman to one day admit, "I did it for the part—just once." Gina agrees it would be revealing, but expresses skepticism about anyone confessing anytime soon.
• Quote:

  “You’ll be waiting a long time to hear that story.”
  — Gina Gershon, 61:20

• Colorful tales include barely escaping uncomfortable situations at the Playboy Mansion at age 15, thanks to Valley-honed instincts.

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The "Alpha Pussy" Philosophy: Agency, Survival, and Humor

[66:50 – 69:10]

• Gina summarizes her memoir as a blend of hilarious stories, cautionary tales, and a refusal to be a victim.
• The end message: own your choices, have agency, and always trust your instincts.

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Looking Ahead: Writing, Directing, and Fresh Stories

[68:38 – 71:00]

• Gina plans to keep creating—writing scripts, acting in original material, and supporting new filmmakers.

• She’s excited by painting (a new COVID-era hobby) and feels compelled now to focus deeply on one creative pursuit at a time.

• Quote:

  “If I could write scripts that I think are really cool and get cool people involved and I get to do it, that’s exciting. That’s really exciting to me.” — Gina Gershon, 69:34

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Notable Quotes

• On Being ‘Too Ethnic’:
  “But on the top [of my headshot] he said, 'too ethnic. Very good, but too ethnic.' ... I made a career of playing anything but a nice Jewish girl from the Valley.” — Gina Gershon, 32:04

• On “Showgirls” Legacy:
  “People cannot wait to talk about Showgirls. … it’s just like the movie that keeps on giving, you know.” — Gina Gershon, 40:13

• On Agency and Standing Up for Herself: "Don't do anything you don't want to do. ... This is just how I navigated my own personal journey. ... If [the Alpha Pussy] concept works for you, amazing." — Gina Gershon, 68:10

• On Writing and Creative Future: “If I could write scripts...that’s exciting. That’s really exciting to me.” — Gina Gershon, 69:34

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Timestamps — Key Segments

• 05:02 – Gina’s writing journey and "Alpha Pussy" genesis
• 08:45 – Valley nostalgia & wild childhood anecdotes
• 23:00 – Breaking into acting as a teen
• 28:35 – Hollywood typecasting and beauty standards
• 34:52 – "Bound" and playing groundbreaking roles
• 40:13 – "Showgirls" creation, reception, and legacy
• 53:35 – Intimacy on set, contracts, and boundaries
• 60:27 – Navigating #MeToo, casting couch, and manipulation
• 66:50 – Owning your narrative and the Alpha Pussy philosophy
• 68:38 – Future ambitions: writing, producing, painting
• 71:00 – Closing thoughts, where to connect, book plug

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Memorable Moments

• Heather and Gina’s Valley-girl bonding, complete with feisty banter about whose sibling was the biggest weed dealer.
• Gina’s dissection of "Showgirls" as both a misunderstood work and an accidental socio-political satire.
• The Playboy Mansion story: a 15-year-old Gina naively marveling at the décor while unwittingly dodging predatory older men.
• Candid advice for young women in Hollywood ("Alpha Pussy" means never being a victim).

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Takeaways

• Alpha Pussy is more than a memoir—it’s a manual for living boldly, unapologetically, and with agency in a world that tries to define you.
• Gershon’s career is a testament to resilience, self-awareness, and a deep sense of humor—all essential tools for surviving Hollywood (and life).

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Connect with Gina Gershon:

• Instagram: @ginagershon (look for the blue checkmark)
• "Alpha Pussy" available in print and audio (read by Gina herself).

For all things Heather McDonald:

• heathermcdonald.net

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Transcript

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Gina Gershon]

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[Gina Gershon]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Gina Gershon]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Gina Gershon]

Woo woo.

[Heather McDonald]

Hannah McDonald juicy sc hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, little update on Taylor Frankie Paul. She is now being investigated from People magazine following the allegations of a third domestic violence incident. Since we recorded last, all TMZ has been doing is putting out more and more body cam videos from the police of the infamous night on the 23rd. So so a lot more video, a lot of the parents, her parents coming over, her talking to the police. That's all been released. It's all on tmz. She has said this is just making it harder for her daughter who has to relive it. I'm sorry for that. But also, why is an 8 year old having to relive it? She shouldn't be online and she shouldn't be watching TMZ at night. So maybe, just maybe, keep it away from her. But apparently there is a third incident. So there's a one that we've been seeing in 2023 with Dakota. Then. Then there was the one that happened in February, that was two days and now there's some other one that apparently he has video evidence as well that he has come forward and talking to the police about. So it's a huge mess. There's talk of rumors that maybe the beautiful Maura who was on Traitors, she might be the the Bachelorette. This is coming from De Moi and might be the Bachelorette and they would do it live. A lot of people have wondered if they'll fill that time with maybe a live type of dating experience in the bachelorette world. Anyway, so we have that going on. Just wanted to update you on that. I'm really excited to share with you an incredible interview that, that I did with a Gina Gershon in person. And she has been a huge movie star for many years and her stories are so interesting about her life. She has a new book out, Alpha Pussy. She'll be in San Francisco with a book signing next week, so check her out. But let's get into that interview now and for everything for me, you're gonna go to heathermcdonald.net hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I am so excited for my guest today, Gina Gershon. You know her, her. So many movies you've done, always sexy. You have broken boundaries with being one of the first and second. You've had a few bisexual characters in the juiciest movies and this being Juicy Scoop. When I saw that you had a new book coming out, your memoir. It's funny, funny, interesting, juicy stories. Gina Gershon's book is called Alpha Pussy. Great title. Thanks for coming on the show.

[Gina Gershon]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Heather McDonald]

Now, this is not your first book.

[Gina Gershon]

It's my third book.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. How, how have you enjoyed the. The writing process compared to acting and doing everything else you do?

[Gina Gershon]

I mean this was a different sort of. I have all different, you know, listen, after like writing this and now like selling this, I kind of miss my day job. I think acting so much easier. But you know, it's a different. This was an interesting process for me. It was different than the last book I did, which I never really meant to Write a book. And then I did a one woman show and then I got a book deal. I was like, oh, I'll just write out what I've already performed. And then the other book was a book with my brother who already had the story. And I kept saying, oh, I wanna make this into a movie. He's like, I don't wanna write it. You write it. And so I was like, no, you write it. And so I. It wasn't my intention to do that. I just did it. Cause I wanted to get it made into something else. And this one was the first one I did that. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna write this book. Which was. It was interesting, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I liked what in just like getting excited for this interview. I like how you were saying, you know, I was. It was Covid, and we were just like drinking and telling stories. And my agent was like, these stories are so funny. Why don't you write a book on these fun stories? And you were like, well, you know, I probably should before I forget them. And I thought that was like, great. And I tell people that all the time. Like, write your stories or tell your stories or, you know, make sure that you have these memories.

[Gina Gershon]

Because, I mean, I think as an exercise, as we get older, you forget everything. I have already forgotten what I've written in the book. And in a way, when you write it down, then it's like deleting something in your mind. Then you could like, make space for, you know, other stories.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Cause I start reading them, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was really funny. No, he wanted me to tell stories. He was really. He was my agent as well. And we had happened to been out one night and I told him some stories that I never really talk about about showgirls. And the next day he was like, you really need to write this book. And I said, I really don't wanna write that book. And then Covid happened, and then he said, just start sending me stories just. Cause I'm like, we're all stuck here. It'll be cheery. And so then I just started writing him little essays about showgirls and about Prince and about band and just anything that was coming up. And he was like, oh my God, I love these so much. I'm gonna take this out and sell it as your book. And I'm like, what? Wait, what is it? And then I just. I didn't wanna do that book. I said, you know, I'm not. I mean, believe me, I could write the tell all of tell alls, but I'm a very discreet person. And some of the stories, I'm like, I don't know if I wanna spend all this time doing that. I said, there's something there, but I don't know what. And then little by little, through a series of events with, you know, my mom, and she wasn't doing well, and I was dealing with therapy and, you know, and just all of a sudden these valley things started coming up. Stories started emerging in my mind that I started noticing a theme. And then once I thought about the alpha pussy story, which really was based on my cat and training him. But then it, you know, when I got Showgirls, people were kind of saying, oh, showgirls. And making me feel uncomfortable. And when I utilized my technique that I did on my male cats to become the alpha pussies and, you know, not be a victim to them, I tried it on, you know, the guys who were, you know, making me feel strange talking about it. And I realized, oh, my God, if I use this technique, it actually works. I become the alpha pussy. They back away. And it's really about just having agency and standing your own two feet and, you know, not letting anyone push you around, bullies or anyone, you know, in life or in your career.

[Heather McDonald]

When we got the email about having you on the show, my husband, who works with me was like, all excited. He's like, she's from Woodland Hills. So I was born and raised in Woodland Hills.

[Gina Gershon]

No way.

[Heather McDonald]

And talked about Woodland Hills my whole life. And my book talked a lot about that area of town. And.

[Gina Gershon]

Wait, where in Woodland Hills, can I ask?

[Heather McDonald]

I just moved last year, but I had a house there for 19 years. I bought it next door to the house I grew up in with my parents. It was on Lander Drive, just south of Wells, kind of near Westchester county, the gated community and Serenia Park.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, that was a different. So I was off. You know, if you had Wells and then both Dale.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. Okay. So if you went a little further towards desoto, okay, before you get to. To desoto and you're on Wells and you're going up a hill, you would go to the left and there's a flat area of homes that are like kind of ranchy homes. And the technical name is Vistadero. But they're these flat homes and they're. So it's like. I mean, flat meaning flat.

[Gina Gershon]

So you're in the fancier area a little.

[Heather McDonald]

It was a little bit. And then they built nice. And then I remember Westchester County Got built. But before that, it was called the NBC lot, and they would film Little House on the Prairie there. Oh, and that's next to Serrania Park.

[Gina Gershon]

I was near right off of Ventura Boulevard, basically, you know, between Ventura and Wells in that long strip like Oakdale went from Wells to Ventura.

[Heather McDonald]

And it was all the orange trees.

[Gina Gershon]

It was all orange groves. It was all pomegranate trees.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, that's what the Valley used to be. And then, I mean, across the street from my house was a vacant lot that was like the Garden of Eden. It was like plum trees, fig trees, you know, everything. I had a. My fig tree was my fort, which I talk about in one of those stories, how my fort was infiltrated. But, yeah, it was a different time. I mean, I went. I went to Parkman Junior High, and when I went there the other day, I was doing something, I said, oh, I'm going to drive by and see what it's like. And it's not there. I couldn't find it. And in fact, I'm driving around Chalk Hill, which, you know, Ventura.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Everything. I was like, I might as well been in Ohio or somewhere. I had no idea where I was. Everything's changed so much.

[Heather McDonald]

I love that you talked about. I talked about it and that it was, like, so interesting to you. Cause I was like, oh, it's like, to me, growing up in the Valley, it was very interesting because, you know, I grew up thinking it was great.

[Gina Gershon]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Being really grateful. My parents are realtors. I went to St. Mel's in Louisville. My brothers went to Taft. I was like, we have a pool. Life is great. Not until I went to USC did I realize there was, like, a negative connotation to snobby LA people. Like, I didn't. I was like, what? What? They're like, how do you handle it there? Isn't it, like, 10 degrees hotter? And. And I was like, I don't know. We have air conditioning. Like, what's the deal? And then when I worked on a TV show, I just got shit every day for living in the Valley. And now all those people are dying to buy a house here because everything's so expensive. But it is.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. The Valley's kind of come back in a big way. Everyone's like, I want to live in the Valley. It's kind of chic now. I was like, really?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I kind of had a chip on my shoulder a little bit about, like, the pride. I was like, eight, one, eight till I die. And like, why is everyone such a dick about It. You know, like. But there were times where I was like, oh, yeah, I wonder if I had ever moved. Like. And you're around people that are all making movies happen, and they're, you know, like, they're at the restaurant that you're at. I'm like, that probably would have maybe been better for me. Maybe I would have. I don't know. You know what I mean? Because my neighbors. I didn't even know.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, you don't know. How are you supposed to know that growing up?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean. But I do believe that it's, you know, they say nature or nurture. You know, I think that when I was growing up in the Valley, and of course, I don't. I don't know anything other than that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And, you know, it was just a very precarious time because, you know, my best friend's brothers were like, the weed dealers in the Valley.

[Heather McDonald]

No, my brother was a weed dealer.

[Gina Gershon]

Really?

[Heather McDonald]

Do you remember a man named Jim McDonald?

[Gina Gershon]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh.

[Gina Gershon]

But I think we were in different than I am.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, so maybe he didn't have the territory. Yeah, he was the Taft one. And he would be.

[Gina Gershon]

This is when I was, like, barely in Parkman Junior High. Barely out of elementary school.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay. He was doing it more in high school. He would have been closer to your

[Gina Gershon]

age, by the way. This is when you're not supposed to. You have to beep out his name because Active.

[Heather McDonald]

No, he died. It's okay.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay. He's dead. That's great. He did.

[Heather McDonald]

And I brag about it. It was the one and only job he had. It was great.

[Gina Gershon]

I know we were talking about, like, people suing. I changed names in here just so.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, you know what I want to say about changing names? That I was always like, thanks, publisher. That would have been nice. I tell people all the time if they're gonna write any memoir. I'm like, from the moment you do the outline of the story, change the names. Because I wrote the whole thing with the names, and not until the very end. They're like, change the names, but also change the city where this guy was. If he was an eye doctor, make him a podiatrist. And I'm like, oh, really? I'm like, I would have done that, but now then I'd be doing a book signing, and someone would be like, oh, the Craig story. And I'm like, wait, who's.

[Gina Gershon]

Who's Craig?

[Heather McDonald]

Cause I changed it at, like, the ninth hour. And, no, I do joke about how my brother. I didn't know it but he was a weed dealer, or more than that. And they had added on a room so you could go through the garage. And then he had, like, a separate door to, like, the hallway into his room. And my parents were busy all day long trying to sell houses. And I just thought my brother was the most popular guy on Earth because people stopped by all the time. They didn't stay very long, but they stopped by and they left. And then he was like, here, help me grow this. And I didn't. He. I'm like, what are we making? He's like, tomatoes. And we were, like, growing it in the back garden. My parents had no clue.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. That's so funny.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

But, you know, but at the time, like, there was. You know, I wasn't surrounded by other creative people. You know, I mean, to get. You know, I think my brother and sister were older, so they didn't want anything to do with me. You know, I had the weed dealers over here. And then I'm like, I'm gonna go to the bowling alley. Oh, I could sell, you know, pinball games. I liked movies. So I learned how to sneak into the Corbin bowl or the theater, right?

[Heather McDonald]

There was Corbin bowl, and then there was the Tarzana movie theater. That's what you're talking about on Ventura,

[Gina Gershon]

right next to each other, right? I changed it for the COVID Cause it didn't look right. I had to make it a little bit, whatever. But, yeah. But then one day, I snuck into that movie theater to watch Billy Jack for the zillionth time. And I heard all these sounds like, ah. Like, ah. And I'm like, I don't remember. I don't recall those sounds in Billy Jack, you know? And I looked up, and there's a smattering of men in the audience with raincoats on. I'm like, raincoats? It's not raining. I mean, I was clueless. I was so young. I'm like, why are they wearing raincoats? And I looked up at the. You know, the screen, and I'm like, what? Like, wait, what? What's she doing with that snake? I mean, it was just, you know. And I was like, oh, my God. And so it's just. I.

[Heather McDonald]

Isn't it crazy that, like, people would go into, like, a regular movie theater and sit next to other people to watch porn? That must be the most insane concept to, like, Gen Z today. Like, that is so weird when you think about it.

[Gina Gershon]

Like, why even, like, buy it and get it free on your computer?

[Heather McDonald]

And then you would be like, Showing your face and going in there or going into a sex shop or like giving your ticket to the person selling the movie. The dirty movie.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, like, you know, but listen, that was. The valley at a time was like strewn with people like that, you know, it wasn't a time of helicopter parents. So it was like, be home before dinner, you know, at six or seven years old, like, I'll walk home, you know, a mile to my house and like, that's fine. And you know, listen, predators and toxic and gross people have been around forever. Forever, you know. But then all of a sudden I realized, wow, they're around a lot. And, you know, obviously they're here now more than ever.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Gina Gershon]

So, you know, but growing up, I didn't. I just started getting depressed because I think I. I was artistically inclined, but I didn't have anyone to play with. And then at some point I started doing theater, but no one really took it seriously. And at some point, at another point I was like, I just need to get out of here. My parents were like, we're pulling you out. Cause all my friends were either getting busted for drugs or. It just. It wasn't a. It wasn't a creative, healthy environment. And I was really going down, you know, I didn't have friends I wanted to hang out with anymore. And so then when they moved me, it was either a girls school or Beverly. And I'm like, I'm not going to a girls school.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, you would have probably gone to Louisville. That's where I went.

[Gina Gershon]

Birmingham. No, not Corvallis. No. What was the other two? Buckley.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that's, that's not.

[Gina Gershon]

And Westlake was Westlake. The girls.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes, Westlake before Harvard. Westlake became Harvard. Westlake. Harvard was all boys and Westlake was all girls.

[Gina Gershon]

I think it was Westlake or Buckley.

[Heather McDonald]

And Westlake was non religious. So it was Westlake. That's where they were going to sit.

[Gina Gershon]

And I just said, I don't want to do that. They said, or you can get into Beverly. Because my. My brother and sister, they. They said, you know, basically move to the slums of Beverly Hills. Because my dad was traveling a lot, so he was closer to the airport. And my mom was an interior decorator and she had clients.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that was a smart idea.

[Gina Gershon]

So they're like, you know what? This is a great school. I had an aunt and uncle and cousins there. They were like, we're moving you over here. And I'm like, beverly Hills. Like, oh my God, I just want to go to Calabasas or the Beach. I was like a surfer chick. But then secretly I was happy I was leaving. And once I got to that school, I was like, whoa, there's like a theater, there's a little theater. There's pizza, there's chocolate donuts. Planetarium.

[Heather McDonald]

They had that pool.

[Gina Gershon]

They had a pool I could take surfing for pe. I was like, this school is rad. I love this school. Yeah. So, you know, but more importantly, I kind of found my people there, you know, like I found the dancers and actors and singers and to this day I'm friendly with my gang of girls there.

[Heather McDonald]

That's so awesome.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

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[Gina Gershon]

Not for kids. When I was at Beverly, one of the older girls, she was like in 12th grade. She had just come from American Conservatory Theater, the summer program. And something clicked once I started really getting into it. I'm like, I want to be a serious actress. I really thought, this is what I want to do. And she told me about the program and I thought, wow, I have to go. Like, I want to be a professional. And you go between the summer, between 11th and 12th grade. The only problem was I wasn't old enough. But, you know, like everything else, I just lied about my age. I had a fake ID and I auditioned, I got in, and then I had to talk my parents into letting me go, which, you know, eventually they did, but then I had to kind of lie to them about, oh, yes, I'm living with this woman. She's 28. They met her, she worked at, in the costume department at the American Conservatory Theater. So I was with a grownup. So. But as soon as I walked in, my parents, you know, my mom was like, I don't think this is a good idea. My dad really trusted me. He said, you know, she'll be okay. And then so the woman turned to Me, she said, guess what? I just got a gig in Hawaii. I'm not here all summer. I'm like, great, don't say anything to my parents, you know? And so I was living there on my own.

[Heather McDonald]

So you're living us in this pretty nice, normal, safe apartment, though.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

By yourself at how old?

[Gina Gershon]

I just turned 16 and I'd lied and said I was 17.

[Heather McDonald]

And you don't know the city because you just got there, right? That's amazing.

[Gina Gershon]

It was fun.

[Heather McDonald]

That's like. That is probably. And so all day long, you would take these classes and stuff in the school.

[Gina Gershon]

All day long. I just was at school the whole time. And then I met this girl. I can't remember how I met her, through a friend of ours. And her parents were gone, and she was like a real socialite, fun party girl. And she lived in Pacific Heights, which was the fancier area. And so she's like, just move in with me. She's like, no one's here. And so we lived in her place. So I would go to school all day, and then at night, she's like, let's go to this club. Let's go to a party. She such a fun girl. So I was kind of, like, living this, like, totally fun life. And it was kind of nice to have there, like, have a roommate, a friend, you know, instead of just being alone. Maybe I would have gotten a little weirded out at that stage, but it was fun. It was a great. It was great training. And it made me realize, like, oh, I wanna take this seriously, and I wanna keep continuing. And the teachers there were very supportive. And they all just kept saying, go to college, keep studying. You know, this is really important that you learn other things. And I felt that way too. So it was good.

[Heather McDonald]

And so what was like, your first, Like, I'm in a real thing that people can watch or see, and I'm like, on my way. I have representation. Like, this can be, like, a real career.

[Gina Gershon]

Well, when I was in high school, this woman, Tina Landau, this woman, she was my best friend at the time. She wrote a play, Faces on the Wall, that we ended up taking to the Coronet Theater. So that was my first professional show. And, um. And I remember I got, you know, all these different people kept saying, we want to be your agent. We. We're gonna represent you. And yet. But most of them were like, we're gonna put you on a TV show right now. And I kept thinking, I wanna go to college. I don't wanna be, like, a dumbass. Actress, you know, to me, just. Cause A, it was important for my parents that I go to college. And B, all the people I respected, like, studied other things. And I just knew I hadn't grown into my body yet. Even though I was 15, I looked like I was 24. You know, I, I, I just, I wasn't there yet. But when I would watch, like, Jessica Lange and Frances, I'm like, that's what I want to do. But I don't know how to do that yet. And I know I need to be older, you know, and so I ended up going with an agent. I'm like, I want to go to college. He's like, great. Go to college. And so I felt. I felt reassured, I guess, when I did the play. Although I didn't doubt it, you know, I always thought, oh, this is what I'm gonna do. Like, you know, some things, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And then I went to school, and as soon as I graduated, he's like, great, come out here. We're gonna put you to work.

[Heather McDonald]

And where did you go? How was college for you? Where did you go?

[Gina Gershon]

I loved it. Well, I went to Emerson for the first year just because I thought. I think my parents were like, you're not going to New York City. Like, right out of here. You don't.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So the Boston was a very good introduction to the East. Although, I mean, I don't regret a lot of things. But I kind of wish at Emerson I had taken more of the creative writing program. Cause I think it was stronger in that suit. And the acting, it was okay, but I wasn't, like, blown away by, you know, what I was. And I got into a professional show there, so I had to stay. But then I went to nyu, and I kind of looked at the classes. And then I just secretly auditioned again. And then I got in. They said, you know what? You can come into the second year because you seem a little advanced. They said, great. So I said, mom, dad, guess what? I want to go to NYU now. And, you know, they were always very respectful. And, you know, my dad's like, well, we'll do it. But, you know, you have to make your own money to do all the other stuff, and we'll take care of this. I said, fair. So, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

That's amazing. I mean, I always remember the thing that I thought was so memorable and, like, unique about you. This is. I love that you did this video. The word on the street. The 90s are back.

[Gina Gershon]

It's a trending thing. I have this girl who's so great helping me do social media right now. Cause I've never done that. Yeah, you know, I thought, for the book, I'll do it for like a month. And she puts. She's like, okay, so we're gonna do this. And I'm like, why? She's like, because it's trending. I don't even know. I'm like, okay. But then she sends it to me. I'm like, oh, that's kind of cute. And sometimes I'm like, I don't like this song. She goes, that's the song. I'm like, ugh.

[Heather McDonald]

So I always think the thing that made you, to me, so memorable was that you had this very sexy mouth. And it was so unique. And I tell people when I talk about stars from our era, I'm like, yeah, they would pop because you couldn't buy lips, you couldn't buy cheekbones. You couldn't like. So if you had a unique kind of sexy. The way you're like. You had these full lips that, like, of curved. I was like, that is just. Nobody else has. I mean, didn't people. People.

[Gina Gershon]

And as. As time went on, when people started getting all that stuff, they're like, so who did your lips? I'm like, what? Yeah, I'm like, my mom. Like, I. I didn't. I didn't even understand the question. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, well, I just put this makeup on, and I was like, oh, no, who did them? Yes, I said, they're mine. Look at. My mother had the same mouth. My sister has the same mouth. My niece has the same mouth. Like the gershon lips.

[Heather McDonald]

My mom, when she. She was born in Wisconsin, they came out to la, the Valley. And my mom said, like, what are. The first couple weeks that she was here, she was at a grocery store, and someone came up to her and was like, who did your nose? And she's like, what? Because she had a really good nose, better than mine. She had, like, a perfect, like, model's nose. And it's true. It's like, now everyone just assumes that, like, because it's thick, you can do it.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But. Yeah, and I just think being brunette and your brown eyes, even, that was, like, a unique look. It seems like. Like, we always were just at that time, it was all about, you know, blonde hair, blue eyes, and just even bringing brunette was like, something we didn't actually see.

[Gina Gershon]

I talk about that in my book. You know, I talk. I can't remember which chapter, but, you know, when I came back Here? Oh, yeah, the first place. So I came back from college and I. And I got my first Equity job here because they were. Remember when Los Angeles Theater Company opened up, so it was a new theater and I was going to be playing with fabulous people. You know, it was Ed Harris at the time that turned into Bill Pullman and Adam Arkin. And I mean, it was such a great cast. And I was cast as Sharina, the Afghani girl, like, who goes up against the Russian. It was about the Russian invasion, Beijing, Afghanistan. And it was an incredible part. I couldn't believe I got it. I had a whole retinue of, you know, Greek chorus of all my Afghani girls. And, you know, it was an incredible part. So I, I got to speak with, you know, a little Farsi. I got to look very, you know, Middle Eastern Afghani, you know, did my hair and my makeup and I really love this part and got really good reviews. All that could not get an audition to save my life. They're like, she's fabulous, but we need an American girl.

[Heather McDonald]

You were too convincing.

[Gina Gershon]

And I was like, dude, I'm like, from the Valley. I'm like, you know, what do you mean? I can't be more American. But I was also too exotic. You know, I was dark hair, dark eyes. It was very much the blonde hair,

[Heather McDonald]

blue eyed culture that they would call just a brunette exotic.

[Gina Gershon]

This guy, I had a book signing in New York, you know, about a week ago, like this big talk and this and he read the book and he said, I am one of your casting. I was one of the people who got your, you know, to cast you in something. And he had one of my original headshots.

[Heather McDonald]

That's so amazing.

[Gina Gershon]

But on the back, you know, where it has your listed, you know, circus training. You write out anything you can to sound really cool. And on the top he said, too ethnic. Very good, but too ethnic, he said, he goes, you're right. Like you were too ethnic for things. And of course. So I made a career of playing Italians or, you know, Colombians, Afghanis. I mean, anything but like a nice Jewish girl from the Valley, right? Or a surfer girl.

[Heather McDonald]

I always thought you were Italian.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, that's what I'm not. And of course, maybe because Gina too

[Heather McDonald]

is traditionally an Italian and I look

[Gina Gershon]

very Italian, but I mean, I played absolutely anything that's so cool. European. But of course, now they're like, oh, no, no, you're not ethnic enough. You have to really be that. So it was such a crazy time in most of my parts you know, I was like, I like the guys part better. They're like, okay. So I ended up playing the guys part. Or here's this. Which things that you're not, you know, it's not politically correct to do. And it's great that so many people are included. But I'm sorry, you know, I wouldn't have had a career had I not been able to play, you know, inbound, the gay girl. You're not really gay, so you better not play that.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, that's amazing, because. No, I agree with that too. I'm like, it is called acting for a reason. If we all just played ourselves, then that's the reality. Person. I'm very like, if I like, you know, I mean, I get the lines and everything, you know. Yeah, if we can find someone. But also, like, that's what makes people get an Oscars because they're like, I can't believe this person transformed themselves into this person. That's called acting.

[Gina Gershon]

And I'm a big believer. I just. Listen, I think if it's a super historical situation where, you know, everyone has to be, you know, Japanese, right? Like, it's this sort of story, then, yeah, you stick with that. But if it's a story and, you know, here is a brutal blah, blah, blah person, some guy who has this sort of energy. I just feel like if a girl comes in and has that energy, I don't care who's playing. I don't care your race, I don't care your ethnicity, I don't care your. Your gender. But if you, like, embody the essence of what that character needs, that, to me, is what I would be looking for. So.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, exactly.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, I don't know. I don't. It's also limiting where they're like, well, how old are you? It's like, what does it matter? I mean, especially today, you know what I mean? Because you can. With CGI and all the AI stuff. Like, I could play. I don't know if I'd go under three months old because two months is a tricky age. But, like, I could go to 2,000 years old. I could go to easily eight. Like, you could do anything back to me. And it's the essence of what you're doing. So I really like that part of acting, you know, so well, I remember

[Heather McDonald]

this movie because it really was kind of groundbreaking. And it's bound. And it was. You were a lesbian, you were working on this house. You fall in love with Jennifer Tilly, who is, you know, so fun on this show. We all watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. So she's super funny on it and just, you know, and was in a great actress. Perfect for this role because she plays a mob. Awful mob guy's, you know, abused girlfriend. So of course, she, like, is happy to have, like, a sexy lesbian girlfriend. And so tell me a little bit about that. Was that the first time you played a gay character?

[Gina Gershon]

Well, I was just coming off of Showgirls, where I was, I guess. Oh, show girls.

[Heather McDonald]

Showgirls came before this.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I thought this was before.

[Gina Gershon]

They kind of were around the same time.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Gina Gershon]

Playing Showgirls, I wasn't. You know, I was. I don't even call her bisexual. I call her Whatever. Sexual power. Sexual. I think that character would have slept and done anyone to achieve her ambitions, you know, But I kiss guys in that. I kiss girls in that. Who knows what she does? But I think Inbound was my first. She was my first real lesbian who, you know, happened to be an ex convent who happened to be getting out of prison. And to me, that story was all about learning how to trust, you know. Yes. She was bound in the closet. And, you know, it was a very beautiful lesbian love story where I got to be the hero. You know, it's usually I played the typical guy's part. And in fact, Warner Brothers, I think it was Warner Brothers said to the Wachowskis, we'll give you a lot more money. Just make Corky a guy. It's a typical noir, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, no, she's staying a woman.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. The noir of, like, the girl gets her lover to take care of her awful husband. That type of story.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. The noir woman who's kind of shady. She probably has the secret idea and she wants to off her mafia boyfriend.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Gina Gershon]

Usually Price screws over the hero at some point, or maybe not. You know, maybe they end up together. But structurally, it really fit that. Except Corky, the. The guy. The hero, happened to be a woman.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So I was like, oh, I want to play that. That sounds cool.

[Heather McDonald]

And how was it? Like, when did you already have the part? Before you ever met Jennifer, or did you have chemistry tests and stuff?

[Gina Gershon]

No, I think when I first started talking to the Wachowskis about the part, I wasn't. I think they weren't sure, and I wasn't sure. Like, am I gonna be quirky or am I gonna be Violet? Cause, I mean, typically Violet was an easier part to put me in. Cause, you know, especially coming off of Showgirls. Although no one had seen that yet. Cause we had just finished rapping. But I was like, guys. And they were guys. Then I was like, I wanna play Corky. I wanna cut my hair off, cut my nails off. Not wear makeup, you know, quote unquote, no makeup, but that no makeup look. I said, this is an exciting part. Like, I never get to play this. And so when we finally decided me on Corky, I think they had Jennifer in mind. And I said, well, we have to meet. You know, just because I was nervous about who I was gonna be playing with. You know, since coming off of Showgirls, I was a little bit. I just like, oh, my God. I. You know, the work environment wasn't great for me. And so as soon as I met Jennifer, I think we went up to Vegas. Gosh, I can't remember now. We went somewhere to meet her. And as soon as we started talking and she's like, oh, you know, she talks about a minute. She's like, oh, Gino, I like those chants. She talks and talks and talks. She gets up and walks around. I'm like, oh, my God, she's gonna make my job so easy. Cause she's so entertaining. And I could just watch her. And she just like. She's so charming and funny. And I just adored her right away. And I'm like, oh, my God, I love her. So, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, it was easy. Great movie. It was so good. So wait, I want. Obviously, I have a lot of questions about Showgirls. I saw it the minute it came out. I was thoroughly entertained. I do remember that they were like, this is the worst movie that ever lived now, wasn't it? But, like, in the previews and stuff, it looked to me like I was so excited I was gonna be juicy. I love stories about Las Vegas. Yeah, I like the genre of it. I love it of, like, where it's like Hollywood, but everything is quicker and faster and sadder and more dangerous than trying to make it in Hollywood. So the backdrop of it and everything was great. But then there were some scenes that, you know, got people to go, is this crazy? But I. And I'm not just saying this because you're sitting across from me, but I really liked your character. I liked that you were the showgirl that had, you know, been around a minute, and she was the new girl. And it was like, is she a bitch or is she trying to help her? Like, I thought, what? So tell me. Let's talk a little bit about it. Like, were you. What were you thinking when you got the Part like, what was your feeling?

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, I talk a lot about it in the book just because, you know, after 30 years, which is now 30 years, the people were like, this is the worst movie. This same. There was. People cannot wait to talk about Showgirls. Like, it's just like the movie that just keeps on giving, You know. I was excited when I got it. It was Paul Verhoeven, who I'd been a huge fan of, from his Dutch films. You know, I was really into Spetters and, you know, Soldier of Orange and all that. And they'd just done Basic Instinct, you know, Esther House.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And when I read it, you know, I've always been a big fan of All About Eve, one of my favorite movies ever. And I will always like, oh, I'm the Eve character. And I'm like, wait a second, can I actually be the Margot character in this? You know, And I felt I was kind of in between. You know, I was, I was.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I didn't even think about the All About Eve element of this. That was for. Just for people that don't know. All About Eve was a great movie where there was. It was a. She was a big theater actress. It was an old movie. And her understudy, or was it her assistant?

[Gina Gershon]

No, Bette Davis is a big, huge diva star. She's fabulous. She has her husband who's wonderful writer, and then along comes, you know, the Eve character who's just so innocent and she just wants to watch her and be her understudy because she wants to be an actress, but she just is in love with Margot, who's larger than life, super diva. And then of course, little Eve, conniving Eve, which we don't realize until later, little by little, you know, doesn't push Margot down the stairs, but she plots it. So then she becomes the big star, right? It's a fabulous movie if you haven't seen it.

[Heather McDonald]

And she does end up with her husband, right, too.

[Gina Gershon]

Then she ends up stealing the husband.

[Heather McDonald]

And, you know, it is a story

[Gina Gershon]

that is as old, as old as time.

[Heather McDonald]

It really is as old as time. It still happens today. I think people can relate to it, whatever. Whether it's, yes, you're. You think you're mentoring someone or it's an assistant or whatever. And you're like, is this at all about a youth situation? What the fuck is this? You know?

[Gina Gershon]

But the only line I really remember in Showgirls, people always come up and they say things and I'm like, uh huh. Like, I'm like, why are they saying these weird things to me? But there's. And of course I'm gonna totally paraphrase it, but it's. And I'm sure Joe Esterhaus got it from someone else that I should probably figure out who that was. But it's like there's always someone younger and hungrier walking down the stairs after you. Yeah, that's good, right? And of course she ends up pushing you down the stairs. There's always someone trying to take your place in this, you know, but really watching Showgirls now, I didn't see it then. Cause I was too traumatized by the whole thing. You know, it's really a story about, you know, as Paul is very sneaky with his other movies about ugly America, about fascism, about capitalism, about power dynamics. Because at the time I'm like, why is this rape scene in here? This, like, get rid of it. And now I'm like, of course it's gotta be in there. Because, you know, the powerful and the whole patriarchal system of it, like, of course they get away with it, you know, until the women come back and get their comeuppance, which is what I think, you know, is exciting in it. But I didn't see it at the time. I just thought, oh my God, I've got to get another job right away to show that I'm really an actress, because this is gonna be a stranger.

[Heather McDonald]

So starting something new isn't just hard, it's terrifying. So much work goes into this thing that you are not entirely sure will work out. And it can be really hard to make that leap of faith. Trust me, I know. When I started Juicy Scoop, I wasn't even sure what I was doing, if anyone was ever going to listen. You don't have to worry like I did, because now there is Shopify. And despite all the fears and the hesitations, it also really helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help tackle those important tasks in one place. From inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com juicy go to shopify.com juicy that's shopify.com juicy this episode is brought to you by White Claw Search. Great podcast pick, friend. No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there, just like White Claw Surge. And with big, bold flavors to enjoy,

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Heather McDonald]

White Claw Seltzer works Chicago, Illinois. When you were doing it and filming it, was it a pleasant experience? Were you excited for the outcome and then was disappointed in the feedback or

[Gina Gershon]

what was it you really got to read? There's like, five chapters.

[Heather McDonald]

I heard there was five chapters. What can you share with us so that people still get the five chapters? Because I. I mean, I. I feel like that's such an interesting thing because, like, you never know when you get a role. Like, I'm sure there's been times that. With you and there's been little things with me and going out and things where I laugh about it now. Like when I went out to be one of the host of American Idol and they described the show to me, and I did audition for it, but I remember thinking, this thing's never gonna make it. Like, there's been, like, a couple moments where. Or I've read a script for, like, a pilot, and I've been like, this is the dumbest thing. This doesn't even make sense. Like, and I never got it anyway. It wouldn't have mattered. But where I'm like, clearly my picker was off. So I always think when you're reading a script or you're seeing, you don't really know, you know, what it's gonna. What the final product's gonna be or what the feat or maybe even times where you thought something wasn't gonna be a hit has become a hit.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, I think for me, my. You know, I'm sure other people do this as well, a lot of people. Like, maybe it's the director person in me. Like, when I read the script, I. First of all, I see what I. In my mind, I think, oh, my God, this is gonna be so incredible. And also thinking about Paul Verhoeven, so I know his films, and I'm like, whoa, this is gonna be so dark. This is gonna be so cool. I fell in love with the part. I'm like, wow. I get to. I mean, I had to lie about my age and pretend I was older and all that stuff, but I ended up eventually getting it. So I. I thought it was gonna be. And I prepared in my head a very particular Part very Margot. Very, like, you know, there's the Aphrodite psyche story that I really kind of grabbed onto, and the Margot and Eve of it all. But then I got to set, and it was a totally different movie. I was like, oh. Huh? Like what? You know, I think I'm doing a black and white intense film. And then it's like Technicolor sparkles, you know? And so, like, I just. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, even the poster is. I'm sure not what you. This is one of the posters.

[Gina Gershon]

I've never even seen this poster. Wow.

[Heather McDonald]

There were different posters. I just kind of thought this one was great just because, like, your name's on it and you see.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, but that's not me. That's Elizabeth.

[Heather McDonald]

No, down here. Your name. Gina.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah. There's my. Well, yeah, my name should be. I'm, like, starting to show.

[Heather McDonald]

I know, I know. So what I was looking at. But the other one was. One was just the leg. That poster is kind of sexy, which, honestly is more, like chic.

[Gina Gershon]

And I thought the poster was a big mistake. I came into the guy's. I remember I was going to the production office, and I had this inspired idea. I said, oh, my God, I know what the poster should be. I know what we should do to advertise it. Cause I was driving on Sunset. I said, we should have a billboard, and, like, there'd be a curtain with lights around it. And every day it's like, 100 days to showgirl, 90 days to showgirl. And the curtain keeps rising little by little, and you see the leg, the shoe, not wearing much. And at the very end, it's, you know, one of those, like, kind of nudie girls. Like a burlesque thing. Like Showgirl show, but, like, fun. Cause I thought, oh, this is a fun movie.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And then they said, oh, no, this is the. This is the poster we're using. And I was like, what? Like, wait, what? First of all, it was a known photograph that was, like, ripped off from this photo. I can't. Angelette. My God, I'm spacing out on the. You know, it was a photo I had seen. I'm like, that. I've seen this. They're like, oh, yeah, we're taking this image and doing that. I just thought it was way too serious. Yeah, but it's so serious. And I thought, oh, do these guys think this is a serious movie? And, I mean, I realized at some point I was probably. I had to change my way of thinking to make it make sense. So I did 180 degrees with my character just so I could have fun with it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

But then I thought, wow, I think they're selling this as a serious film. I don't know. I was clearly in a different movie.

[Heather McDonald]

That is so interesting, because I think that's what maybe the confusion from the audience and maybe some of the criticism was is because you didn't understand, like, when Elizabeth Berkley was like. Like, you get all mad, and there were these lines, and people were like, what the hell is this? Like, who acts like this? And it was more of those things where, like, you're in the movie theater and people are laughing at things that they shouldn't be laughing at. And so that's kind of where. But then it became like, this culture classic that people just love. And, you know, and it's interesting, too, that you've had such a, you know, a great, varied career and stuff that, like, probably what that must have been like, you know, where there were real reviews, like Roger and Ebert reviews, not just a million people just, you know, doing Rotten Tomatoes or whatever. And you kind of have to see that as, you know, as a major Hollywood star. Like, how does that work? Like, you said, I need to get a job right away, but, like, well,

[Gina Gershon]

I wasn't a Hollywood star then. That was a big break for me. I'd done little movies here and there, but I never had a lead in a film quite like that. And I. You know, listen, I didn't direct it. I didn't produce it as an actress. I go in, and my only job is to do the best job possible I can, you know, and when I'm hanging from a rope in, like, a little S and M outfit, watching all these naked dancers below me, it really occurred to me, like, wow, how did I get here? Like, I studied the classics. You know, I wanted to play Antigone and Medea, and I. I'm gonna do a lot of Chekhov, like. And it. I thought, you know what? We better be really good in this. Really good, else we're not gonna have a career. And so I was very. I stayed on my own track of what I wanted to do. And, you know. You know, there's just a few. But for most part, I kind of walked away unscathed. You know, the rest of the movie got, like, lambasted, which, by the way, isn't fun.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm a very believable character. Like, I believe this girl worked in Vegas all these years. You know, like, you could. And she's like, you know, she's a great character.

[Gina Gershon]

And I. You know, I did a good. I did the best job I could. And I. But it's just. It's hard when you're the one getting good reviews and everything else is getting slammed. It doesn't make you feel great, you know, I mean, thankful that I'm not included in all that. But, you know, listen, reviews. I learned a lot from that. Because, you know, if you read the good ones, if you believe the good ones, you have to believe the bad ones. And, you know, it's just an opinion. And some of those same journalists who were like, this is the worst movie, you know, for years and years and years, they're like, so let's talk about Showgirls. I really like that. People would say, I really like that movie secretly. And, you know, I'll tell you, the only person. And I know he's been very controversial lately with a couple things, but God bless Quentin Tarantino. He was the only, like, kind of a major player at that point. He came out with a big article saying, I love Showgirls, and these are the reasons why. And I was like, oh, God, good for you. Cause everyone was just kind of going along with the tide, saying, oh, they. They're saying it's bad. Well, I better say it's bad, too. And people sometimes don't have their own opinion. So I. I really appreciated that he supported the movie. Um, and so, yeah, it was. So anyway, before it came out, it was supposed to be this big brouhaha, but I secretly, in my head, thought I better show that I'm actually a real actress, because I don't know what this movie's gonna do. That's when I said to my agents, find me something fast. And they were like, no, we're gonna put you in a big studio thing. We're gonna do this. And when I read Bound, I'm like, I wanna do that. I wanna do that, and I wanna do that now. And they were shooting it now, and I'm like, I couldn't find a part that was so diametrically opposed to everything that Showgirls was. And so I thought, perfect.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And what was your relationship like? You've always had, you know, you've always been, you know, sexy, great body. How was it, like doing more showing off your body more on film and acting? Like, did you, like. What was your relationship with that? Did you enjoy it?

[Gina Gershon]

Did you. I talk a lot about that in the book. You know, these are things I address, like, through a lot of different chapters. You know, listen, I Grew up. I was a dancer. I was a modern dancer. Me and my girlfriends, we'd take off our tops and we'd do our Martha Graham movies, you know, so the dancing part, to me, wasn't that big of a deal. Cause I just. I was a dancer. And originally, I actually never was really supposed to show my body in it a little systematically. Like, all of a sudden, you saw my chest, you know, and, you know, the one. The most naked kind of you see me in is in that. In the big volcano scene. And I have a. There's a whole chapter about that, specifically about how it turned into a G string from that, you know? You know, listen, I. I don't have a problem with anything, really, as long as it's justified.

[Heather McDonald]

As long as it makes sense for the. As long as it makes sense for the character.

[Gina Gershon]

How does this move the story forward? What does this do? There's a whole chapter about. It's one of my favorite chapters. I called out crazy. The crazy. I believe that it is. When all of a sudden it came to my attention, like, oh, we need to be totally naked on this scene. I'm like, what? And I talk a lot about that. How I kind of wiggled out of that one. Although, you know, listen, anyone who is going to be. Especially now. I mean, forget intimacy coordinators. We didn't have that then. But this is why you have one.

[Heather McDonald]

That's what I was going to ask you. When did that start happening to have intimacy coordinators?

[Gina Gershon]

Not until, I don't know, last 10 years. I don't even know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, it seems like the last 10.

[Gina Gershon]

I'm not so used to. This is why you have lawyers. This is why you make a contract ahead of time. And you. It's so. It's not very sexy. But you go very systematically through. Oh, you know, you'll see 5% of my hand, okay, on a screen of this. And you go through every sex scene, every nudity scene, so you are protected, you know, in case all of a sudden your director turns out to be a psycho, saying, we're gonna do it like this. And it's like, well, no, actually, I don't have to, because we discussed this ahead of time.

[Heather McDonald]

Unless you're a small or a stuntwoman or something. Sometimes you maybe don't have the say because it's like, do switch it up.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, I think it's really important whether you have a lawyer or not. Then you have those conversations ahead of time, and I could certainly sympathize. And obviously it's happened a lot, as we've seen in the last few years. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book as well. When I talked to some actresses, and they're like, oh, my God, this is what is happening on the set. And. And I'm listening. Like, dude, you can't like a. You have to look the person in the eye and say, hey, you know, I'm not really comfortable doing that. Tell me exactly why. And they're so intimidated or stressed out, which I can appreciate. And everyone's like, well, you're so tough. You know, you know how to do that. But, like, I wasn't always tough. That's all those. I set up the Valley for a very specific reason, to show how I had to learn how to have an antenna and this and that. But, you know, at the very least, I just am a big believer in don't do anything you don't want to do. You know? That doesn't feel right to you. Right. And I'm sorry. Like, I, you know, I feel really horrible and bad for, you know, a lot of these people are victims, and because they have no say. What about the person that's going to be deported somewhere unless they do something horrible with their boss? Like, these are the people we have to be protecting. Right, Right, Exactly. And unfortunately, and hopefully, fortunately, in the future, I don't know why we don't have this now. There's a thing called accountability and consequences, and maybe that will prove to be a deterrent for the future, because the people who really don't know how to defend themselves and really kind of get in a situation, we definitely need to help protect.

[Heather McDonald]

And I definitely think in Hollywood especially, but in a lot of industries,

[Gina Gershon]

if

[Heather McDonald]

you do stick up for yourself or demand or whatever, then you know what? They don't ever have to hire you again. And they could also tell their friends, don't you hire them either? Because now they have a bad story about me, and I don't want them telling that story in the room.

[Gina Gershon]

Yep. And that's happened.

[Heather McDonald]

That is the blackballing thing that happens. And I think that's why people do stay quiet. It's why we have a union. But even if you go through the right channels, it's still. It's a subjective thing. It's just weren't right for the part, and you never got another part.

[Gina Gershon]

And you're like, okay, I'm sure I've lost at least 35% of rules because I didn't play along or you didn't comply. There's you know, the head of the agency is like, oh, let's go out. And I'm like, oh, oh, for lunch. Good business. And then you realize, oh, no, this is a. Oh, this is a date date. Like, oh, no, no, I have a boyfriend. Like, I always just said I had a boyfriend. But then you. You know, but these are choices. And, you know, what if all of a sudden, if I was like, oh, my God, I want to be famous. I want to make money. I want to do this and that, and if that was a way to get what I wanted, you know what? That's between me and me, and I just have to own up to it, right? I don't judge anyone for their choices. But be clear with what your choices are, and if you don't want to do that and you're not comfortable either. You know, some of these stories, a lot of these stories is how I kind of manipulated my way out without completely confronting these little egos so they could completely blackball you. But, like, you know, as women, there's so many ways you're like, oh, ha, ha ha. Like, what? And then you get out of it, and, you know, listen, I get along with. I haven't met a wild animal I haven't been killed by, you know, whether it's dangerous, you know, swimming with alligators or snakes, you know, or wolves or, you know, I'm very good with animals, and yet I wouldn't walk through a jungle after dark by myself. Right. Because animals are animals. Don't put yourself in a situation that is, you know, could potentially be very dangerous.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, very. I mean, I've always said, because I was been doing this show since the beginning of the MeToo, and I covered it all in the Harvey Weinsteins and stuff, and in hearing all these stories and, you know, with actors and things, I'm like, I am still waiting for the one actress who doesn't give a fuck anymore is a woman of a certain age who will tell the true story of like, yeah, I did do this so that I could get that part. And once I got that part and showed the world what a great actress I was, I never had to do it again. But I felt that was my only choice because I was at this level or because I didn't have a good agent or because I wanted a Nepo baby. You know, there's so many people, and I just want one person just to, like, tell their juicy story. You know what I mean?

[Gina Gershon]

I think you'll be probably waiting a long time to hear that story.

[Heather McDonald]

I probably Will. And it must exist, Right?

[Gina Gershon]

I'm sure it does.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, we all have our things

[Gina Gershon]

of like, yeah, listen, I tell another story in there, and it's the one. I don't really name the actor because my. My job isn't to throw anyone under the bus.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

But it was very clearly. It was the closest thing to, like, a casting couch. Because I kept saying, what am I, chopped liver? How come I never. Although so funny, I said that in the book. Like, no one ever really did that to me. And this woman who read the whole book, she was like, tried to hit

[Heather McDonald]

on you or whatever and take advantage of it. No, she's like.

[Gina Gershon]

She goes, you say you don't have that. She goes, but you literally have story after story after story where you were navigating. I said, you know what? I realize that now. I didn't realize it then just.

[Heather McDonald]

Cause I'm like, you're just, like dodging bullets.

[Gina Gershon]

Well, we're so used to that. And I was so used to that in the Valley, dealing with that. But there was one story where the guy at the casting thing, he's like, oh, you're so cute. Why don't you stand up and walk around? And. And I remember, like. Like, this is gross. Like, you know, good luck. If you're gonna get gross. I actually am gonna leave. He's like, no, no, no. I think you should be my wife. And I'm, like, thinking, ooh, you gotta kiss this guy if you do that. I'm like, no good. I'm good with it. Just two days of work. Anyway, I thought for sure I would never get the job.

[Heather McDonald]

You mean? He was like, I want you to play my wife.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, okay. That would be a bigger part.

[Gina Gershon]

Bigger part. And I thought, oh, I have to kiss him. No, I don't want to do that. I said, no, I'm good with this. The two days. Anyway, I thought, there's no way I got that. Cause I was like, listen, you're getting weird. Like, I'm out. Good luck with your movie, you know? Cause I thought, this isn't worth it. And I still got cast. And then I was on the set, and he said something weird, and I'm like, you know what? And, I mean, who was I. I was doing theater then. I was just like, you were young. Yeah. I was like, we could get along just great if you just don't talk to me anymore. And I thought, I'm gonna get fired. And guess what? I didn't get fired. But it's like, I didn't want someone talk. I didn't want him talking to me like that. So you have to either.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I think that's so interesting and it is so hard to do, but it is kind of like, you know when they say especially if you're like walking on the street and you feel like somebody's walking behind you, like the thing that you're supposed to do is like, turn around, look them down and be like, get the fuck away from me. And then you like act crazy. Get crazy back. Be direct and crazy.

[Gina Gershon]

The crazier. That's gonna be your good chapter.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Being also just, you know, just calling them on. Like, was that supposed to be funny? Are you trying to be funny with like, you know, the women that can do that? Which is not me. I was a person that laughed at the gross joke because I was like uncomfortable and wanted this old man to feel comfortable. And I was like, I love it when a woman calls it out and is like really firm. And if you do it the way you did it. So I want everyone to read this book. Well, that sounds good. The way you do it, it's like it's a strong way. It's in the moment, but it's also not making them feel that they do have to fire you because they're so insecure now. Like, you did it just the right way. It sounds like it's.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, but I learned how to do that. I mean there's a story in there about when I went to the Playboy Mansion when I was 15. I, you know, never been to a mansion. I didn't even know what I had to do.

[Heather McDonald]

Now how did you get invited to that?

[Gina Gershon]

Oh my God, you gotta read the book. I mean there's all these. You're gonna like this book. Cause there's so many of these stories that you're. But they're just so long. I don't know how.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, yeah, we want people to buy the book. Okay, so buy the book.

[Gina Gershon]

There's all these stories.

[Heather McDonald]

Buy the book, curl up, read all these juicy. And I love that they're little stories because I think yeah, you could just jump around because people. You know their intention they're though people are reading a lot more books that's coming back in. But I love essay funny books that tie together. But also that you.

[Gina Gershon]

You can jump around. I know, me too. But you know, I remember when I was at the. I went to ended up there's a whole long story to get into it. But at the end at. At one point, you know, I'm 15. And. And I'm at the Playboy Mansion for the first time, and there's some guy saying, do you want me to show you around? I'm like, yeah, I've never been to a mansion. I'm like, this is rad. Like, free pinball, free food. This is cool. You know, I was so naive, right? And then he shows, and my mom's an interior decorator. I'm like, oh, I can't wait to tell my mom about the molding on this. Look at that molding. That's beautiful. So he shows me the red room, this room, this. And then he's like, do you want to see the grotto? And I'm like thinking, what the fuck is a grotto? I'm like, yeah, sure, I want to see a grotto. I thought it was like an animal or something. I had no idea. And then, of course, it's the inside of the pool and there's a couple people swimming naked around it. And then. And I was like, whoa, this is interesting structure. I mean, I'm. You know. And he's like, so should we take a swim? And only then I realized, oh my God, is this guy totally hitting me? And how old was the guy? Ancient. He must have been at least in his 30s, you know. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

But that's where, like, the innocence is too. Cause when girls are in the that position, even if it's someone who's, you know, they're contemporary and they think like, you're just some guy, but you just think they really want to be your friend, or they're so older and unattractive, you're like, how would you think I'd ever like you?

[Gina Gershon]

I wasn't even thinking about you.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, how is it?

[Gina Gershon]

I was like, oh, this is neat. Oh, look at rocks in the water.

[Heather McDonald]

That's so cool because you're 15, that's why.

[Gina Gershon]

But when he. And then when he said that, when I realized he was hitting on me, I just looked at him and it was so neat. I said, dude, you know, I'm only 15. You could get in so much trouble. And he laughed. He goes, hahaha. What are you, 23, 24? I'm like, dude, I'm only 15. I'm seriously, you could get in a lot of trouble. And I was just laughing my head off. That guy ran. He'd even back away, like the other people, he just like, ran. And I was like, oh.

[Heather McDonald]

Like.

[Gina Gershon]

But it was coming from a very innocent place. And I think later on with the whole alpha pussy, when that started thinking, shit, I gotta alpha pussy. This situation, it was definitely, you know, sometimes you don't wanna lose a job, sometimes you don't. So you have to figure out a way to sometimes, you know, caress in a way not to like totally destroy their ego, but to. I find sometimes just looking at them in the eye and just say, oh, I see. I was like, oh, my God, that's. Yeah, that's making me so uncomfortable. Like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and owning up to it. And then they get uncomfortable and they walk away. You have to finesse it, you know, and it's just about. And anyone could do it. It's not just a female thing. It's any. There's other bully stories where people were pushing and I had to figure out how do I get out of this? And believe me, sometimes I was not very elegant about it. I just like jumped on them and ended up breaking my nose. Or I had a lot of rage in me as well. I don't know. I just think obviously toxic people and bullies and people trying to push you around and telling you what to do, they're not going away. So to me, it's important to have agency, know yourself, understand what it is that you want and, you know, just do what feels and listen to your instincts. And if you don't care how you get a job or if you're going to be pushed around because you want to get, then and anything is fine. This is not a how to book. This is not a, like, you know, guide to whatever. This is just how I navigated my own personal journey. And if people love the stories, cause they're kind of funny and if they get something from it, like, oh, the Alpha pussy concept, that's a good idea. And that works amazing.

[Heather McDonald]

I love that. I mean, you've worked in this business for, you know, a long time, many decades of just the 90s and on. And you continue to work like the industry, you know, we hear all the time it's changed so much. And, you know, there's not enough production here in LA and people are going to movies or whatever. Like, what do you want for your future? What do you see happening in this business for you? Going on continuing to act and direct and doing all the things you do.

[Gina Gershon]

I think the next, you know, I seen. I think I kind of got into the writing bug all of a sudden, but I have what I like to do. I've written one script that I kind of set aside, but I want to address that. And I'm in the middle of finishing another script that I'm absolutely obsessed with. And these are parts that I would play. So to me, if I could write scripts that I think are really cool and get cool people involved and I

[Heather McDonald]

get to do it, that's exciting.

[Gina Gershon]

That's really exciting to me. And it's the only. I mean, listen, if someone just offers me a part that I think is cool, like that's the easiest gig to me. That's like, oh my God, I love this. This makes life easy.

[Heather McDonald]

You don't have to do the whole thing.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. But until I find that, I'm still interested in exploring characters that I want to explore. And I like stories. So if it's a. I'm really into original stories, you know, I'm just sick of seeing the same story again and again. I like supporting first time directors. I like supporting just fresh, you know, stories and projects just because they're harder and harder to come by. And, you know, I like a good story. I'm a storyteller. And if I get to act in it, something that's a fun part, different for me to play, amazing, or if I just write it or I don't know, then I might just turn around and start painting for a while.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, do you paint?

[Gina Gershon]

I started to during COVID and I think I'm really into it. I was really. But you know, that's so cool. I don't know if it's an age thing or a Covid thing, but I used to be able to multitask and I can't. It's like once I go into one thing, it's all I'm doing. You know, once I go into this, that's all I'm doing. So, like, it took me a while to write this. Cause of course my day job, which is acting, all of a sudden I'd get a gig. I'd have to put everything aside but like, oh, you could write at night and do your acting a day. I'm like, I don't know how to do that. I can't. I just get absorbed in what I'm doing so well.

[Heather McDonald]

This was a real thrill for me to get to talk to you. And the book is Alpha Pussy and so Juicy. And I think you teased it just enough that everyone needs to buy it. And where can they follow you on Instagram and make sure that they.

[Gina Gershon]

I'm just, I'm only on Instagram, I'm not on any of the other social medias and my name is. What's my name on Instagram? It's just Gina Gershon.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, it's Gina Gershon.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

It's Gina Gershon. And of course you can get the

[Gina Gershon]

book, but there's other Gina Gershon's. I think you have to look for the little blue dot. Did you. Is.

[Heather McDonald]

Did you do an audio version, too?

[Gina Gershon]

I did an audio version. I believe it's out now.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, everyone loves an audio version, and especially when it's your story and your voice and, like, I think that's super valuable. So get the book if you want to read it. Otherwise, get the audio version. Thank you so much, Gina. This was really fun. So great to get to know you.

[Gina Gershon]

So fun. Thank you. Thank you. You

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