Hilarious Katherine Ryan on Stand Up Comedy, Motherhood & Marriage

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

Episode: Hilarious Katherine Ryan on Stand Up Comedy, Motherhood & Marriage
Date: February 17, 2026
Guest: Katherine Ryan
Main Theme:
A candid, comedic, and insightful deep-dive into stand-up comedy, the challenges and joys of motherhood, evolving perspectives on marriage, and the ways women navigate career and family in modern society. Heather and Katherine share personal anecdotes, compare career paths, and discuss the social expectations on women, comedy, and relationships.

---

Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Introduction & International Comedy Careers

• [02:31–05:28]
  • Heather introduces Katherine as a world-renowned comedian; Katherine jokes she's truly just UK-famous.
  • Katherine discusses her international background: dual Canadian and British citizenship.
  • Both discuss performing in different countries; Heather hasn’t toured UK/Ireland and expresses nerves about debuting abroad.
  • Katherine notes the warmth of UK audiences and encourages Heather—"In the UK, they'd come to see you" (05:10).

---

2. Motherhood and Comedy Careers

• [05:28–08:12]
  • Discussion of how having children affects touring and career—Heather reflects on how her path differed from comedians who film specials while pregnant.
  • Katherine shares her own prolific recent motherhood: "I've been pregnant six times in five years. But I have three children. And I regret that." (07:30)
  • Heather and Katherine joke about "starter marriages" and the complexities of leaving relationships before kids/mortgages complicate things.

---

3. Marriage: Sacrifice, Expectations, and Humor

• [09:11–10:54]
  • Both comedians agree marriage is complicated and no one "right way" exists.
  • Quote: "You should only get married if you really like a daily reminder of gender inequality and injustice. If you like that, you can have it all—kids, a career, resentment." – Katherine Ryan (10:34)
  • Candid jokes about religion, sacrifice, and what keeps long-term marriages together.
  • Heather: "There will be no purgatory for me." (11:15)

---

4. Modern Motherhood: Breastfeeding, Co-Sleeping, and Attachment

• [12:42–15:38]
  • Katherine is passionate about breastfeeding, co-sleeping, and being very hands-on: “Breastfeeding’s everything...all three sleep in our bed like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.” (13:54)
  • Both discuss judginess in mom culture over feeding/sleeping methods.
  • On birth control, surprise pregnancies, and Irish fertility: “Irish women have very good old eggs. I don’t think enough people know about that.” – Heather (15:26)
  • Katherine jokes about the hazards of being highly fertile and rolling the dice on a 5th child.

---

5. The Work-Life Balance: Touring with Kids & Stay-At-Home Dads

• [18:49–21:51]
  • Katherine’s husband is a stay-at-home dad; they have nanny help too.
  • Traveling for comedy with young kids is difficult logistically and emotionally. “If I was a dad, I could do this, I could do that. I’d be in LA this week by myself. But I’m nursing.” – Katherine (19:48)
  • Conversation on the innate expectation that career moms will also carry the motherly mental/emotional load.

---

6. Comedy Material: Using Family in Stand-Up

• [29:55–34:16]
  • They discuss whether comedians should joke about their kids’ personal lives.
  • Both disapprove of comedians discussing daughters’ first periods on stage. “Not okay.” – Heather (32:49)
  • Katherine is careful to respect her children’s privacy: “Now…we have to keep our children’s lives private…or we’ll be humiliated online.” (30:13)
  • Heather’s approach: tell stories from the parent’s perspective, with self-deprecation rather than at the child’s expense.

---

7. Comedians’ Evolving Lives and Audience Reaction

• [35:13–38:55]
  • Both reflect on how audiences sometimes react poorly to changes in a comedian’s life/stage persona (“trad wife”/losing weight/etc.).
  • “There were some people who were like, I don’t listen to your podcast anymore because you talk about your kids too much.” – Katherine (36:48)

---

8. Women in Comedy: Image, Fashion, and Industry Norms

• [38:55–41:15]
  • On pressures to dress down on stage in early careers—Katherine resisted it.
  • “You shouldn’t dress like that. Women will hate you and the men will fancy you…hide your femininity as much as you can, was the message.” – Katherine (39:51)
  • “I never showed my legs until, like, three years ago. I thought it was, like, distracting or something.” – Heather (38:25)
  • Celebrate the current diversity in female performers’ dress/style choices.

---

9. Making it Work: The Realities of Single Motherhood and Career

• [47:19–57:57]
  • Katherine recounts getting her start in comedy while working at Hooters, wanting to be “pretty and uncomplicated,” but her funny nature kept getting her in trouble.
  • She shares how being a single mom in comedy meant her daughter came everywhere with her, especially when building a career in the UK.
  • “I just thought that being a standup comedian was conducive to single motherhood—it’s like strippers, you work when they're sleeping.” (55:43)

---

10. TV, Sitcoms, and Projecting Real Life in Entertainment

• [60:45–65:56]
  • Katherine discusses her Netflix series "The Duchess," a semi-autobiographical show about a fashionable, wealthy, and fiercely independent single mom.
  • On industry resistance to female comedians playing standups in sitcoms and the pushback to having her character be “rich for no reason”: “But why was she rich? And I went, because of your reaction. That’s why she’s rich.” – Katherine (63:35)
  • The challenges of collaboration with show writers vs. the creative control in stand-up: “In stand up, you can be a bitch to yourself; you can be as shrewd as you like...” (67:00)

---

11. Pop Culture Tangents: The Beckhams, Brooklyn & Nicola, and Weddings

• [68:15–75:40]
  • A “juicy scoop” deep-dive into the drama between Brooklyn Beckham, Nicola Peltz, and Victoria Beckham—the perceived family rift, social media’s influence, and how money and gender shape family narratives in the public eye.
  • Both share personal takes on weddings, family dynamics, and why they find vow renewals awkward.

---

12. Closing Topics: Criticism, Cancel Culture, and Being a Woman in Comedy

• [82:13–87:49]
  • Heather talks about handling criticism: “I delete and block a lot of people…sometimes if it’s one little comment, it doesn’t really bother me.” (82:25)
  • On cancel culture and men weathering it with little consequence: “There are lots of men in my industry who've been canceled but still earn millions.” – Katherine (84:27)
  • Both discuss the shifting cultural and professional landscape post-#MeToo and how it impacts comedy and public life.

---

13. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On marriage & sacrifice:
  • “You should only get married if you really like a daily reminder of gender inequality and injustice." —Kathryn Ryan (10:34)
  • “I’m going straight to heaven. I will put in a good word. I will tell the doorman—get him in if you want.” —Heather (11:21)
• On parenting and expectations:
  • “The flow goes one way—parent to child, like there’s nothing they can do wrong. Just make yourself available, make some type of sacrifice.” – Katherine (54:42)
• On women in comedy:
  • “You shouldn’t dress like that. ’Cause the women will hate you…you should hide your femininity.” —Katherine (40:05)
• On audience reactions:
  • “There were some people who were like, I don’t listen to your podcast anymore because you talk about your kids too much.” —Katherine (36:48)
• On cancel culture:
  • “There are lots of men in my industry who've been canceled but still earn millions.” —Katherine (84:27)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:10] Touring Internationally & Motherhood
• [07:30] Katherine on Multiple Pregnancies
• [10:34] “You can have it all: kids, career, resentment.”
• [13:54] Co-sleeping and crunchy mom habits
• [19:48] Gender roles and working moms
• [32:49] Both hosts: Period jokes about daughters “not okay”
• [36:48] Audience backlash to changing identities on stage
• [39:51] Pressure on women in comedy to hide femininity
• [55:43] Standup and single parenthood—“It’s like strippers…”
• [63:35] “Why is she rich? Because of your reaction.”
• [68:15] Brooklyn/Nicola/Victoria Beckham wedding “scoop”
• [84:27] “Cancel culture” effectiveness, men vs. women in entertainment

---

Conclusion

Heather and Katherine’s raw, witty, and conversational episode delivers genuine insight into the realities of being a mother, wife, and touring comic in today’s world. They highlight challenges and double standards, share unfiltered personal stories, and offer hilarious perspectives on everything from breastfeeding in the green room to navigating cancel culture and career changes. Both encourage women to follow their instincts, support each other, and laugh at life’s absurdities—onstage and off.

Transcript

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[Heather McDonald]

Heather McDonald has got the juicest scoop.

[Kathryn Ryan]

When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales For real life, Mr. Sacred, serial data and Serial Sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to.

[Heather McDonald]

The number one tabloid Real life podcast.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Listen in.

[Heather McDonald]

Listen up. Woo woo.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Hannah McDonald. Juicy scoop.

[Heather McDonald]

Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited because I have a world renowned comedian, female comedian Kathryn Ryan. Welcome to Juicy Scoop. Hi.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Thank you for being such an incredible comedian yourself, paving the way, being one of the the women that I looked up to and just still smashing it with the tiniest ankles I've ever seen in real life.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you. I have a Thing about tiny, I mean, I don't like that they're so tiny.

[Kathryn Ryan]

What have you lived in the world? Would you like ankles like this?

[Heather McDonald]

Like, look, I have, I, I, you know what, you know how you always like, like what someone else's body is it? I, I used to love the way the cartoon of Porky Pig's girlfriend or one of those pigs, they'd wear heels.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I like, I thought that looked the sexiest was like a chunky leg in a high heel. And I think it's because it's, I don't have that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You would love me dressed up. That's exactly what I look like. I'm incredibly ham colored and I've always had like toddler legs my entire life. And I just covet legs like yours and a complexion like yours. Yeah, we, we should swap bodies, do a Freaky Friday.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, God. Well, for those of you that don't know about you, you have had numerous specials. You do a lot internationally now. Do you have three citizenships? Are you Canadian, Irish and English?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Just two. So I will pick you up on World Renowned. I'm like, quite famous on one small island. I moved to the UK 18 years ago and I'm not, I'm not really selling the size of theaters and sometimes arenas that I can sell in the uk. And here I have a show tomorrow. I think it's like 330 all this way. Like, I traveled, I was delayed as well. And I've done the math, or maths, as we call it in England. Yeah, I traveled one hour for every eight people coming tomorrow. So, yeah, like, I wouldn't say I'm world renowned, but I love it. And I'm just so, And I, on.

[Heather McDonald]

The other hand, I've never performed in England or Australia or. Well, I did, we did a little fun Australia thing when I was on Chelsea lately, but. And everyone's like, you should do, you know, you should do English, you should do Ireland. And I'm open to it. But I would be doing it. I think I'd arrange like a whole trip around it. And I would probably choose a small place because I wouldn't want the stress being that it'd be like a first time, you know.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, they'd be thrilled to see you. Like, when you go out that way. I think in Los Angeles there's access to so much. Yes, but if you went to Australia, especially New Zealand, there are very good comedy audiences there in the uk, they'd come to see you. But do you think that motherhood has impeded Your ability to tour internationally.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, my experience is different. It's funny because you're here and you have young kids and your Instagram, which has over a million followers and a lot of great standup clips, you're pregnant in a lot of it. And I literally just said to Brandi and Julie, who are on my show all the time, I'm like the only person that did a standup special where I wasn't pregnant. Like, I feel like, you know, Ali Wong, Amy Schumer. So many great comedians in the last like five, ten years have. I almost feel like they're waiting to film their special to be pregnant, like. Cause that like gives you an extra, like, well, it's an extra audience member, but also it's, you know, and, and so no, I kind of went my. My career was a little back, a little backwards in that I was doing standup. I sold some shows, but I wasn't like a touring stand up at the time because I started in la and so then. And then I had kids and it was like far away from where I lived. And then I didn't really do standup for a few years. And then working on Chelsea lately, I was in a great opportunity to open for her and become. And then I became a headliner and wrote books. And then from there my kids were like, school aged okay. So I really enjoyed that time away from them. And like having then I was like a guy comedian that just wanted a hotel room to just sleep in throughout the night. So I never experienced the traveling with the kids that are little. And that's what you have right now because tell us how old all your kids are.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I've made some mistakes. I don't know what happened kind of around co. I don't know if it's like long Covid that sent me into the psychosis where I was like, I need to breed as much and as often as I can. I just became like a trad wife overnight. I decided to have as many babies as I could have. It would have been really good to become addicted to something less damaging like fentanyl. But instead, no, I've just been pregnant actually six times in the last five years.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I've had three children.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And I regret that. I have an older daughter who's 16 and I should.

[Heather McDonald]

That was from a previous relationship.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I should have just stuck with like one chic daughter. And the babies are all here now and I, you know, I wouldn't send them back, but if I never met them, I would have missed them. And they really make it difficult. So there are four just turned three, and the baby's three months. And we brought the baby to la, and it's.

[Heather McDonald]

And that's with your current.

[Kathryn Ryan]

With my current. My first husband.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, so. Oh, so the first one you weren't married to.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, I like to call my husband either my current husband or my first husband.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Keep him on his toes.

[Heather McDonald]

People love that. I've let people know about the starter marriage.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Ooh.

[Heather McDonald]

Which I did not. I did not create that. I just remember every story that's ever been told.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

About anything, whether it was on Oprah 30 years ago or on Good Morning America 10 years ago. And there was a book called the Starter Marriage, which was. You have a marriage, but it doesn't produce any children.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Key. Very key.

[Heather McDonald]

And then. And it's kind of over before you're, like, 35.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And then. And people love that because it's like. It's forgiving. Like, if you. If it's not working out and you haven't had the kid yet, it's just a starter marriage. Just.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And this message, I think, should be rolled out to women everywhere. If you don't have these extra layers of complexity. Like, even I was like this at 23, I'd go, well, it'd be really difficult to leave him now. No, it's not. You're not married. You don't have kids. You don't have a mortgage. You don't just leave. Like, women need to be walking away before it gets really. Like, imagine how complicated it would be to leave my husband now. It'd be awful. It would ruin my life.

[Heather McDonald]

I was talking to a girl the other day. She's younger than him. Her kids are school age. And she just was like, listen, I married for love. The first time. The guy's literally right there. She goes. But if anything was to happen, it's either for a lot of money or nothing at all. Like, I'm never getting married again. And I'm like, oh, my God. That's, like, just so funny that it's like. I do feel like there's kind of, like, a lot. Maybe it's just the algorithm knows what I want to see. A lot of it is just, like, women being like. Like, I've seen these videos where women are, like, when you get home and you think you're alone, and then they do, like, a video where you just hear, like, slam the door. Like, it's just them. It's just. And you. It's comforting because you realize because when it's happening to you. You're like, if there were cameras in this house, every single person in this world would feel sorry for me and be on my side.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But then because of social media, so someone puts out a video like that, and everyone's like, oh, wait, we're all in the same boat. That's just their species.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's a scam.

[Heather McDonald]

It's just their species.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Absolutely. And I think that's why there's this concerted effort to shame single women. Single mothers, child free women. Because once we get into it, we're like, oh, well, this wasn't maybe worth it. And I say that I love my husband.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But it's like, oh, there was this different path for me where I was just single with my one chic daughter. That would have been really good too. You should only get married if you really like a daily reminder of gender inequality and injustice. If you like that, like, you can have it all. Kids, a career, resentment. You can have it all.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I am. After 25 years of marriage.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I can't believe you've been married that long.

[Heather McDonald]

Why?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Is your husband incredible?

[Heather McDonald]

No. Okay, I'm incredible. You are?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. I.

[Heather McDonald]

Believe God will reward me for these sacrifices. I do believe in heaven. And I think I will be like, there will be no purgatory for me. I don't know what's gonna happen to him.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You're going straight to heaven.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm going straight to heaven. I will put in a good word. I will tell the doorman. Get him if you want.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But right now, this is my table, like, with my parents, and we're gonna hang out.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But I. No, I do get over things quickly, but there are times where I'm like, oh, my God. And then the next day, I'm like, I can't believe I ever thought that way. I don't know. That's just our vibe. Like, every marriage is different. Every marriage is completely different. Someone could put up with infidelity or whatever because maybe they own a helicopter. Maybe the husband is really sweet and complimentary, and they're like, I don't wanna fuck you. Anyway. I don't judge anybody's sit.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

And I think that's the problem, is that women. And I think that's why women, like, love to watch housewives, like, get divorced, because they're like, I'm kind of jealous of her life, but her husband hates her.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Yay.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, no, I don't feel so jealous. Like, so I think it's. You gotta realize that, like, everybody has A different situation. Everybody's tolerance is different, everybody's vibe is different, and whatever works for you. But what I've realized also is there's certain things in life like, okay, so you have these young babies. Let's talk more about you. Cause my audience is probably like, Heather, we've heard all your fucking stories, but.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I like hearing them live.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, so you have all these young kids. And can I ask a personal question about. Are you a breastfeeder?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, my gosh, yes. And it's everything to me.

[Heather McDonald]

You love it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, I believe in it. Again, I don't judge anyone. It is fair.

[Heather McDonald]

Again, it's your own thing. Me, too.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's so difficult. Even if you have a supply, it's difficult. It really chains you to the house.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's the only thing that separates me and Stefan Diggs. I think we've got the same number of children. Yes. I breastfed everyone. My first daughter, I breastfed her. Maybe too long, like two and a bit years.

[Heather McDonald]

But is there anything too long? She's not trying to get your nip now, so who cares?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I know. I believe in it.

[Heather McDonald]

I believe that all that, too, is annoying. Like, to be judgy of someone that goes into toddler years. I mean, yeah, if they're playing soccer, yeah, it's too old. But, like, the rest of it is, like, what works for you, you know.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Like these little nip pads, just in case you say something. And I emote, and then I lactate all over this Valentino jumper. So, yeah, breastfeeding's every. I'm very Kourtney Kardashian in that way. I'm granola crunchy. I sleep with my kids.

[Heather McDonald]

Great.

[Kathryn Ryan]

All three of them. We have. How many bedrooms do we have? I'm doing very well in the uk. Probably, like five bedrooms. We sleep in one. We sleep in one bedroom. The entire family. Like, we're on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you have one of those special beds? Because I've seen that, too. A lot of people are doing the larger beds.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes. It's a nightmare. And I believe in it so strongly. And my husband and I are actually very much aligned on attachment issues stemming from being left to cry in your room as a baby. And we respond to our children's needs immediately, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, we're still having sex because we keep having kids.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But people in Britain are very fascinated. They're like, but when do you have sex? But how? Like around 10am, when people are either at nursery or napping. Yeah, I'll tell them they're not prepared for that either. In England. They're like, they're very buttoned up. But yeah, you have to be creative.

[Heather McDonald]

And are you on any kind of birth control now?

[Kathryn Ryan]

No. No.

[Heather McDonald]

So you're going to roll the dice for a. For a fourth or fifth would be. It'd be a fifth, right?

[Kathryn Ryan]

It would be a fifth. It'd be very controversial. Rolling in to an abortion clinic with a triple stroller. I just can't have one more. But I think I read the other day that Claire Danes at 44 had a surprise pregnancy and was devastated. I read this, actually. I think just in the car in Los Angeles. I read that she didn't believe that it could happen. She thought 44, she was home free. And it just, it throws your life into turmoil. It really does. There's such a.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, isn't your background Irish? Aren't you Irish? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know about Irish women and their very good old eggs? I don't think enough people know about that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

They should be warned.

[Heather McDonald]

It is a real thing.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Because I'm 100% Irish. I thought I was a one quarter French Canadian. That's what my mother thought she was French Canadian. But then when I took the test and I was all Irish.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, French Canadian's not an ethnicity.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. Well, then people said, no, I think Irish people came to Canada and some lied and said they were French. I think that's what. No, that's what happened. No, then how am I 98% French? And my mom thought she was French. No, I'm sorry, I'm 98% Irish.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

So like 100%. My dad was 100% already. So I thought I was 50% of my dad. And my mom was 50. 50. She said her mother was French.

[Kathryn Ryan]

French Canadian or French.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, French. And then like, I guess French, French Canadian, whatever. In Canada.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So like.

[Heather McDonald]

So. But anyway, they're not. But they're not like, have you seen Hamilton? No, sorry. Don't get mad at me.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So I, I learn about history, especially American political history from West End musicals.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And so the French and the English both were battling over territories in land in America and at that time, Canada as well. And I heard the worst deal ever was the French sold. I think it was the Mississippi river to the English for like a million dollars at the time. And that became like the way for trade and everything else. It was like a terrible mistake. But that's why they're kind of French in New Orleans.

[Heather McDonald]

Got it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And there are French and so the Acadiens as we grew up knowing them, because I'm French Canadian too. Esqu vous Palais Francais.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I took. No, I took lots of French, but I don't know any.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Your mom didn't teach you? I'm a bad mom.

[Heather McDonald]

No, my mom didn't know French either.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, fine.

[Heather McDonald]

So many new French. You just took it in school and you don't learn it after that. You just have to get through the memorization. Then you forget.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Okay, well, in Canada we do know it.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, good.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Because there are French roots. And the French Canadians really dig into their French culture. They keep trying to separate from Canada and become their own country. Quebec. Yeah. So like, they're French, but no one's ethnicity is Canadian apart from indigenous people. Right, so. So you came up zero French. Zero.

[Heather McDonald]

Zero.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Maybe she's Irish and just like settled in French Canada.

[Heather McDonald]

No, that's what I think. I think that they. I think. Cause first I thought, did someone cheat? Like, that's kind of exciting. No, I think it was just a bougie thing. And they like kind of fibbed about it. And my mom never knew and now. But what I was saying is my grandmother had children very late in life, in her 40s, back when there was no fertility. And I remember going to the doctor and I was rolling the dice and he was like, you should not be rolling the dice. Like you have viable eggs. So I warn Irish girls that you could have viable. And if you're Irish and you're trying to get pregnant, then this should make you happy. But you need to be a little careful if you're not.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I think because I'm still breastfeeding. My youngest baby's only three months old, so I don't have a regular cycle yet. When I do, I think I will.

[Heather McDonald]

But you're still boning.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, without protection for sure.

[Heather McDonald]

So, I mean, so you have these three little kids and what happens when you do go on the road? How often do you go and who takes care of them?

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's hell. So my husband is a stay at home dad.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But again, the injustice of that, especially when you're breastfeeding. We do have a nanny, just in the daytime, not living with us like many English people do. Um, so she helps out my oldest son, who's four, he's just started school, so he goes four days a week. And then my little girl who just turned three, she goes three days a week to the baby.

[Heather McDonald]

A little bit of a break.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. So he does get a little bit of a break. And I just haven't really. I haven't been here since I was pregnant with my three year old, actually. So it does definitely affect my work. And it's. It's like a mindful practice not to be jealous of the boys because it's so easy every day to be like, if I was a dad, I could do this, I could do that. I'd be in LA this week by myself. But I'm nursing.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well.

[Heather McDonald]

And also, it's like, even women that have careers, it's like, still they. I believe it's just our innate inside of us. It's like we are mothers first. No matter what that career is, even if it ever happens to be, you know, President of the United States or whatever, it will still be mother first. Yet you wouldn't think that about like a guy who's like, let's say the Chief of police.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

You wouldn't be like, I'm sure you think about your kids all day long while you're running the city. No, you'd be like, he's the Chief of Police. You know, and it's like. So that's the thing too. It's like. And with being female comedians, nobody's ever like, to a male comedian. Oh, my God, it must be so hard to leave your two little kids to go do the Tempe improv.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But we should say that to them, shouldn't we? Yeah, we should start just being like, oh, my God, where are your children?

[Heather McDonald]

Who's watching them? Where are they?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Are you. What?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Are you co sleeping? Like, how do you tour when you're a dad of one? How do you do that? You know, it's. But it is a thing. Like, there is a woman, Erica Komisar, who I really love, and she appeared recently on the Kardashians, and she's this renowned psychologist. She talks a lot about attachment theory and attachment parenting. And she's made this return to biology, which is weird because I'm really. I think I'm very progressive. I believe in equal opportunities for everyone, but the biology just isn't there. Like our newborn, who's three months old, my husband has not looked after her. He's looking after her now. And I'm a bit concerned about it, even though it's only gonna be two hours.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I have spearheaded the care of that child. And then when she's older, my husband will look after her a bit more. Like, he's really good with the toddlers. He's so good with the toddlers, not great with the teenage Girl not great with the newborn.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But there is this biology where. Sorry like you can be as feminist and progressive as you'd like, but you are their mother. Unless you're in a lesbian partnership and then you're the other mother and then maybe you get to be a bit of a dad. Yeah. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

I find that interesting too. And as someone that did use daycare and outside help and stuff, now my kids are grown and I think we're all good and we're all great. But I would tell someone and I have that if you can avoid that. You know, it depends on the age. Well, sometimes you can't. And sometimes your career can allow. And sometimes your economics can't allow it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But if you are in a position to have it be that. Maybe it's just on rare occasions someone watches them. But the baby that, that you're. That whole like carrying the baby thing. I never really did, like, I never really wore the baby because I am so lame.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Because of the ankles. You would healed right over.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm so lame. I never, like, I always had a hard time like situating that bijorn.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So I like to either just take care of the baby or put the baby to stroller. And like I was. All I ever wanted to do was like be a mom. And I love being a mom. And I have a lot of sadness that like I was really busy during that time and working and I don't. I wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't make all those same decisions. Because it doesn't wait for you. And when the opportunity comes, you gotta take it. No, but it is hard.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then it is really hard when you choose to be a stay at home mom. And just like the 80s, if you're still staying at home for 20 years and then you're 45 and your kids are grown and your husband's like, yeah, I'm fucking the secretary and goodbye, you are fucked again. Which is why people said you should have a career.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But then also, yeah, it's natural. And one of the things I saw like, yeah, maybe that was that same Kardashian or somewhere else about how especially like the boys want to be really near their mom until like five.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then they're really good to like go off.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And I think sometimes even as little people are like, oh, why is he such a mom? Was born like right away and you're like, he's four. Like, who cares? Like, that's what. And that's what I've always said about that, like, your kid is not gonna be going, hey, I'm coming home from college, mom, so, you know, get my side of your bed ready. Like it's never gonna happen, you know, and even people that sleep with their kids really long, few people I know, like, there was a family we knew and their daughter was like in the bed and then she had a bed in the room and. And people kind of snickered about it. They're fine.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

She married a marine, She's a vet. They have kids. Grandparents visit parents. Grandparents still married to each other. Everybody's fine.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

The parents didn't break up. The girl didn't get weird. It's like, whatever works. But in those situations, it was the child that said, all right, like, I'm ready to have my own room now.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And so I like, again, I agree with. I just feel like there was a time in media that we were just fed so many things about like, you know, letting them cry it out and all that kind of stuff. And you just have to do what's right for you.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

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[Kathryn Ryan]

I finished my last tour just before this baby was born.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

The tour that I did when my son Fred was born, he was coming into the green room, he was coming on the road with us. That was hell. Cause you never know who you're gonna get. And Fred was a very difficult, like unsettled baby. So he was not like a happy fat tour baby who would just sleep all the time. Not at all. Um, and then I toured pregnant with Fenna. Some of my kids have quite controversial names.

[Heather McDonald]

I love it. Fred, Fenna, and. What's the other one?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Holland Holland. Like Holland Taylor.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I love it. Yeah, I love it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I saw her on the red carpet and I really love, like older, powerful actresses. She's great in the lesbian community in general.

[Heather McDonald]

And a May December lesbian.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holland Taylor. Baby's named after her. But also my husband's Dutch, so that's cute. Fred was his father's name.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you wear those little shoes in your family?

[Kathryn Ryan]

We do, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We split the bill. But yeah, like, it. It has been. And like today we had a little row we call a fight a row in the uk.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I use UK language just cause I'm, you know, tired of being corrected by my teenage daughter. I have to like, absorb their language. I think I said jumper earlier. I've only been here a few hours. But yes, my husband, bless him, like, is very helpful and very kind and he really is the love of my life. We get on, we're like funny, but on the way here, we've both been ill, if you can. And this is the other thing with kids. They're just like super spreaders. We're sick all the Time we were on this massively delayed flight. My milk supply is low. I get emotional about that. I'm just not well. And so I was just about to leave to come and meet you. My husband's like, just gonna have a cigarette in a shower before you go. And I was like, no, no. How come all my stuff comes last? Like moms are just meant to fit it in, slide it in. And for the last five years, I can't believe I still have a career. I actually can't believe it. I look at someone like Nikki Glaser, who is amazing and so deserving of her accolades and has just been admired in our industry for years and years and years. And I think she's visiting Dr. Diamond. She is child free. She's prioritizing these foot massages and writing her show. And I'm like, I am very lucky that people even come to see me. I'll have one tit milking on stage, I'll be pregnant again on stage. I'll be throwing up backstage. I'll have a baby in the green room. It is ludicrous what I've learned.

[Heather McDonald]

But I bet there's moments of, you know, some of our friends that are child free female comedians. Because I always see everything, you know, as lemonade. And I'm always like, you're gonna have so much material falling from the sky.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

From your daily life as a mom. No.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Because Brooklyn Beckham ruined that for us. And now we have to keep our children's lives private. And we can't monetize them or share photos of them. But I mean, but I'm certainly not tell jokes about them or we'll be humiliated online.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I have told stories about my kids. And one thing I had said when my first special came out where they would have access to watch it, I just said, I don't want you to watch it till you're 16.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Cause I'm like, then you'll. At 16, you won't care about the Hot Wheels joke. Okay, that I told about you, you know, and you won't get it. And at one time my son did happen to watch it. Cause it was like on the TiVo and he got mad about something my daughter told me.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And.

[Heather McDonald]

But then that was it, you know, and then I was going through old videos and there were some videos where he was like, stop filming me. And I did. I never put on anything that they didn't want. I didn't share a lot of them. Like in the Chelsea litly days, I never. People didn't even know I had kids. Cause I thought that was the classy thing to do. Then I was like, oh, my God, I could have, like, been exploiting these kids for years, you know, and now that they're older, they don't care. But I still always ask. I always go, do I'm tag you? And they're boys, so they're not like thirst buckets. Like, so they're not like trying to build up their thirst. But I'm like, hey, you know, like the other day my son turned 20. And I said, what? I found a funny video of you. And he's just like. And he looks so cute. And he's like five. And he's like, I love you because you gave me hardwood floors. Cause we, like redid the floors in his room and you know, and it got a lot of views. Now I don't know if it's because he was shirtless and four. I don't know.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, God.

[Heather McDonald]

But he's 20 now. He's 20 now. But I looked and it was. Thank God, mostly my followers that liked it. Cause I was like, this is weird. And then. But everyone loved it. Because the thing I wrote was like, my son always had great taste. And most of all, the comments were about hardwood floors versus carpets.

[Kathryn Ryan]

He's got an eye for interiors.

[Heather McDonald]

But I did, I said, this is the video I want to post. Can I tag you? And he's like, yeah. And so I'm like, okay, fine. Like, I think you have to be like that. And I do think you should be careful about the stories you tell. Because I know it's low hanging fruit to say your kid is dumb or they're an asshole or they're a bedwetter or whatever, but I'm like, you gotta think of yourself at seven and if that story was out there for the whole world to see.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So I love Kevin Hart and Bert Kreicher, but is that how we pronounce his surname?

[Heather McDonald]

Bert Kreischer?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Yes, I love them. But I saw in both of their specials, they had material about their daughter's first period. And I was like, not okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm gonna say it right now. Not okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I don't believe so either.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I know a guy on the radio that talks about what his daughter will look like when she's older, if she'll need a boob job, and talks. And the people are sitting across from him and they're getting paid to be there, so they have to just laugh along with it. And I had a real moral issue with it. And that's one of the reasons I'm no longer on that show as a guest. But I didn't like it and I don't think it's right. And I don't think you should be joking or talking about that. It's the same stories that I've told where there was a woman who was doing vlogging with her children and she made her daughter do an ad for her first period. And that girl now is part of a book about how fucked up it was. And it's like you just have to think about that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Absolutely.

[Heather McDonald]

And you have to talk about them and everything. But I think it's also how you write the material. Like if it's your perspective. And it's. I always felt like my stuff was self deprecating. Like I was a bad mom and I feel that. And this was just the boy mom thing. And I'm trying to get cute before an event and my son dropped the, you know, hot rod next to a giant shit and I have to scoop it out when my husband's golfing and I'm like, fuck you. And like, you know what I mean? So I think that there's ways to do it. But yeah, I agree. I agree with that. And. But in that what I'm saying about child free and I have said childless and people get really mad at me. So I like that you say far child free.

[Kathryn Ryan]

We've both been in trouble, female comedians.

[Heather McDonald]

With that is that. I bet there's times where they've been like, oh, sure, you have a new hour, Katherine, because you had another fucking kid to talk about. You have another birthing story, you have another getting into the school story. And they're good stories and they're relatable stories and they're from your perspective. And I do think sometimes for people that don't have that maybe it is harder to come up with material. How many more Tinder jokes can you have? How many more things can you say, I don't want kids. My whole, I don't, I'm happy, I don't have kids. We're like, you're 50. No one's expecting you to have a kid at this point. Your shtick is getting a little old. Like, whatever. So I think everybody has the thing, but it's your life. And you know, and then when you become a grandparent, that's a whole nother thing. Like, so it's great. It's like, as long as you can talk about your life and you have such a strong point of view, then those stages of your life. It's just your point of view. You're not necessarily exploiting no people.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I was really worried, actually, about alienating the audience that I had in the UK because, like, 2019, my special, my last Netflix special, and then I have two subsequent specials on sky in the uk. But that special was very much about being single and you don't have to fit into a traditional shape of a family. And I really had it all figured out with my lovely daughter, and I was really killing it. And then I fell into the trap of like, have you ever.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm curious. Yeah. Have you ever. You know how in this world of ozempic. Yes. There's a lot of people that have made their career out of being funny and fat or, you know, or. I don't want to say fat. That's whatever, you know, I think you.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Could say fat again.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I think we'll say that.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, well, whatever. That's their character. That's this, that. Or they're bold and body positive and they want to be healthy, too. And so then they've slimmed down. And then the audience is like, you left the good fight. Like, you left the. Did you feel. When you became the quote unquote, trad wife, did you have any singletons that felt that you had abandoned their cause and sold out to be, you know, baking your own bread?

[Kathryn Ryan]

A little bit, yeah. I just had a few messages. Mostly people were on that same journey with me. They were also being taken in by the allure of a husband and kids. And, like, mostly they were making the same mistakes. But there were some people who were like, I don't listen to your podcast anymore because you talk about your kids too much. And I was like, that's nice. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, that's what I need to hear after the show.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But it is fair. It's like if people recognize you as one thing. And I changed the way I looked. Like, I don't get pregnant in a cute la way. Like, I gained all this weight in my neck. I say I got pregnant in my throat like a tropical frog. I just looked incredibly different. And loads of people, because my thing was kind of being glamorous. I had always had a really nice figure and I wore beautiful clothes on stage at a time when maybe female comedians were discouraged from doing that.

[Heather McDonald]

I do. I wanna talk a little bit about that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Wait, did you have a point before I interrupt you? Cause I am interrupter, so I just go ahead.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I just got incredibly. I looked different. Is What I'm saying, I got, like, ugly and fat for five years, which is fine if that's what you like. But I'm from a toxic generation.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And I really missed being attractive. I was like, oh, well. Yeah. But go on with your.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I was going to say about your. I love your. Your looks on stage.

[Kathryn Ryan]

That's kind of you.

[Heather McDonald]

And I. When I came up, it was like, Paula Poundstone. Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Who's so talented.

[Heather McDonald]

And suits and ties and pants. Suits. And Joan Rivers would dress up in a dress, but at the same time, her whole act was saying how ugly she was. Which I was always like, I don't get why you say calling yourself fat when you're a size two. And you're very pretty in my eyes and everybody else's like, whatever. Even though. But she was hilarious in every way and very, very generous to other female comedians. But I was going to say, like. So I was always like, I never showed my legs until, like, three years.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Ago back on the ankles.

[Heather McDonald]

I got to get. I never did because I thought it was, like, distracting or something. And I just was like, oh, he wore, like, jeans.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But now I'm like, I don't know how many more years left I have to show these legs. So now I. I do wear more. And I love that a lot of female comedians like you, Nikki Glaser, you know, Hannah, are wearing, like. Either everybody's wearing glamorous outfits or everybody's wearing the Dave Chappelle garbage. Working at the. At the auto place.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes. And whatever your authentic choice is and whatever that.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, literally, I call that the female comedian uniform. And, like, if I'm, like, at a Target and I see a girl in it, I've done a video that I'm like, hi, where are you? Are you at the Improv tonight? Like, I don't know why that became such a thing, but I love that you dress up like my two that we're doing in the fall. I'm like, I'm gonna bring. I'm gonna dress like Luann. I'm gonna get Giovanni. I'm gonna just do the whole thing. Because I'm like, I don't know. First of all, I can't afford these outfits finally. And I don't know when I'll have the next opportunity to get all dressed up and have, you know, hundreds of people look at my beautiful dress.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And people, like, looking at your beautiful dress, it's sort of like, I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

Know why we took us so long to figure that out.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's A tragic. Did you always dress up when you.

[Heather McDonald]

Started, when you were young, like in.

[Kathryn Ryan]

The clubs in Canada? Yes, but then I would be discouraged from doing that.

[Heather McDonald]

How would they discourage. Who would like an agent or something?

[Kathryn Ryan]

The bookers or. I didn't have an agent in Canada. Just like the guys at the club would just say, you shouldn't dress like that. Cause the women will hate you and the men will fancy you. It'll be distracting. Like, you should hide your femininity as much as you can, was the message.

[Heather McDonald]

That's why I did it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I never, you know, that again. It's so disappointing for, you know, for them to show themselves as. We think women hate each other and women don't. And I get so many messages from ladies who might not otherwise think that they'd be into standup comedy. And of course, we both know there are so many women who. Who have internalized misogyny and will say, well, I don't think women are funny. Or they'll go, I think you're funny. But I don't think other, you know, they'll just.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I always said, stop. Change your language. When you say, I'm excited to come to see you this Saturday, I'm dragging my husband. And I'd be like, if your husband got tickets to Chris Rock, he would not be dragging you. No, you'd be excited to go. And I'm like, why are you putting your husband in a place where you feel he wouldn't enjoy me? If he likes you and you're funny and you like funny, he will enjoy it. And so many straight men like great, fabulous, funny females, especially men, like under 50, especially. But even the ones over 50 like it because they relate. Like, if it's me, it's their wife. And, you know, they. And I'm not male bashing. I think sometimes women are afraid.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I usually am male bashing.

[Heather McDonald]

I think they're afraid to bring the husband. Yeah. Have it be an hour and a half of male bashing and then they have to walk on eggshells with that fucker for the next week. And I think that's why they don't want to bring them. And I do. I think because we are constantly thinking about their ego and being fragile about their ego. So then I had to be like, look, I actually don't male bash. Like I'm raising sons. Your husband will not be offended. I'm not going to call him out. But whatever. Come or don't like, I'm sick of it. Yeah. But the thing is, I think women are so supportive of other women and we need to focus on those women. However, there are a lot of women that unfortunately, the hater ones, I think the culprit of the hater, the anonymous online hater that I'm sure you get as well, I think they are frustrated comedians themselves. I think a lot of them are mad that they didn't pursue a dream or. I remember with this one woman I worked with, she was ahead of me in the standup world and in age and in success and all that. And she never had kids, was pregnant and chose to end that because she said there was no way I could continue this career as a traveling standup. That's what she believed. That's what she either told herself or believed it, whatever. And I felt she had a real resentment towards me because I was able to do it all and she was told you couldn't. Yeah, and. Or whatever. Or. And so I don't know. It's like, it's a weird thing.

[Kathryn Ryan]

People project a lot.

[Heather McDonald]

There's a lot of. There's so many times where I'm like. And hence this is why we're not further along. Like, because sometimes we are not thinking and being supportive of other people's dreams and being like, that's great that you're doing this all you know, it's amazing. Let's be honest. Life is rough on our bodies. Processed food, stress, environmental elements, late nights. And your liver is working overtime to filter all of that out. And if you've been feeling sluggish or just off, your liver might be trying to tell you something. Let me tell you about doze Dose is for your liver. It's clinically backed liver health supplement. It isn't just another capsule or powder. Dose is a liquid supplement. It's taken in a daily 2 ounce shot and it tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice, which I love. And dose cleanses the liver of unwanted stressors that's slowing your liver down and it promotes daily liver function so your liver can do its job. I just started taking it and I have already noticed the little pep in my step. I love the flavor of it and I feel like I'm doing something really good for my body. Ready to give your liver the support it deserves. Head to dosedaily co juicy scoop or enter juicy scoop to get 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it that's D O S E D A I L Y Co juicy scoop for 35% off your first month. Subscription opositive is a women's health company. They offer a range of symptom targeting supplements that support women at every stage of life, from our first period to well beyond our last. Which is where I am Euro is a probiotic blend specifically formulated to support vaginal health. When taken daily, two capsules a day, Euro delivers noticeable benefits within eight weeks. Many may see results even sooner and many customers talk about how the improvement in vaginal health led to a greater confidence as well as better sex and intimacy. Let me just read you some of the reviews this one, she wrote. This product does everything it says it will. I am just finishing my second month and I have no discharge, no odor and no taste. This stuff is a game changer, another woman wrote. They have really helped to keep me balanced and feeling comfortable with having a sex life again. Take proactive care of your health and head to ohpositive.com juicyscoop or enter Juicy Scoop at checkout for 25% off your first purchase. That's O P O S I T I V.com JuiceScoop for 25% off for all the parents out there with teenagers, we know you're already trying to keep a million different things under control. Cash App is here to help make sure your teen's money and their spending isn't adding to that craziness. Cash App is designed to meet teens age 13 to 17 where they are with intuitive educational tools available through sponsorships by an eligible parent or guardian. Teens gain access to a personalized Cash App card that comes in different colors and patterns to fit their style and their ability to instantly access money from family and friends. Cash App makes managing money feel easier and honestly just cooler than other options out there. Skip the stress and give your teen a way to learn financial responsibility with no hidden fees. Download Cash App and get started for a limited time only new Cash App Customers can earn $10 if they use code Family10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Cash App is a financial service platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank Partners Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank Member FDIC Direct Deposit and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. Brand Visit Cash App Slash Legal Slash Podcast for full disclosures and so you have okay, so you so you got started in Canada. You were like working at Hooters training waitresses.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then what made you first decide? I actually think I should be a stand up.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well I always valued comedy so I would watch it. I Loved the David Letterman show and Joan Rivers, obviously. And I loved the Golden Girls. I would just watch all of those things. Was part of our culture growing up. Loved, loved, loved funny women, funny people. And then I never considered that I'd be a standup comedian at all. I wanted to be the thing that I thought got you the best life, which was uncomplicated and pretty and soft and gentle. And I wasn't those things because I would say, I don't know, like, I was just a weird kid. So I would say something that I could see. My parents would stiffen up. Like I would offend people somehow or I'd try to be funny in a room where my dad especially was like, no. And like, I was a bit provocative as a kid. And I didn't want to be that way. I didn't choose it. I wanted to be like Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears. I was growing up in that generation. So as soon as I graduated high school, I moved to Toronto, which was like the big city near ish to where I was from. I started working at Hooters. I got breast implants. I was like, this is it. I'm going to be a nice girl, like the right kind of cheerleader girl. And I'd get in trouble at Hooters for, again, like, trying to be funny. I was never trying to be funny. I just said weird things.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And there was a stand up comedy club next to the Hooters. And I thought as an exercise to get it out, I'll do amateur nights as a hobby. I'll leave it at that. I'll just go and be weird at the comedy club and then I'll continue my path.

[Heather McDonald]

And was your path as a pretty Hooters girl was the path to get married and be a mother?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, so you wanted just like a nice life as a normal, cute girl.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I used to say to people, and I don't know where I got this because I went to university as well in Toronto. I'd say when they'd ask what you want to do with your life, I'd say, I want to be an educated housewife. Which I'm the opposite now.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you ever hear the expression, oh, you're here to get your Mrs. Degree?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, love to get an Mrs. I didn't go to a school like that. I went to quite like an artistic school where, you know, there were no doctors and lawyers and those kind of men to meet. I really didn't place myself in the right place. Like, I like that there's conversation now around, like meeting rich men, what they should do, what they should pay for. Because I think feminism, which, you know, has evolved and will continue to took us on a little detour where our generation, we're like, I'm gonna split the bill, I'm gonna earn my own money. I'm gonna be autonomous and independent. But then we are also picking up a lot of the mental load, a lot of the childcare, a lot of the housework and these younger girls, because I do have a 16 year old and her friends, they've like taken it back to, oh, I wanna work and I want my husband to work, but he has to pay for everything. And men have to lead and plan the date and follow through and take initiative. And I'm like, it's weirdly traditional with a modern spin. But no, I dated like broke losers.

[Heather McDonald]

Exclusively in university and with, yeah, with me. I always loved comedy and I thought I knew I should do that. And my parents would even say, heather will be on that stage one day doing standup. But I really knew I wanted to be a mom, like a married mom. And I thought there could not be anything less attractive to men than a female standup because of the boldness, because of the tell it like it is. But then I decided, like, I have this talent and I'm not using it. And that's, you know, a nephew to God. So I was like, started to do it and then there was even a point where I was like, man, I'll just have a child of my own. I just know I have to be a mother. Like, I'll just do it on my own or whatever.

[Kathryn Ryan]

What age were you thinking this?

[Heather McDonald]

Like 27.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Wow.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I would just go, like. Cause I wasn't in a relationship or anything. And I was kind of like, I just know I have to be a mom at some point. I think people that haven't made, which you kind of were in this position with your daughter, I really don't rub it in is you have the child.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, is that dad involved?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Not really. So I've been careful never to slag him off just because I don't think it's the right thing to do. And I really protected him while my daughter was young. I would never say anything bad about him. But now she's 16 and she can see for herself that unfortunately he's not a bad person. But he's never made any sacrifices, never paid anything for her, just kind of texts her, which I think is breadcrumbing, like, hey, love you, how are you? Which is better than no contact. But he hasn't been like the type of dad that you would want for your daughter. Do you know what I mean? I do.

[Heather McDonald]

I do.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Which I would say to dads, I think I would be a great dad. Like, non contact parent.

[Heather McDonald]

Me too. Because I said, I think every mother would be a great dad.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, I am a great dad. When you think about it, you are a fantastic father, Heather.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm the best dad ever. But what I would do, I can't fix anything.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And this is to all the, like, you know, fathers for justice, like the dads who listen to your podcast. All you have to do with a teenage girl is drive to the mother's house, send her a text and go, do you want to come get Starbucks with me? If not. If not.

[Heather McDonald]

That's all I've ever said too. I've given that advice so much.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's all they have to do. It's all the teenagers care about. If not, I'll go get you a Starbucks. I'll drop it off, you come to the car, I'll give it to you. I'll say, hey, how are you? I love you. Here's your Starbucks. Bye. Like, no pressure.

[Heather McDonald]

I have said this so much because I think people, they, in the state of California, they kind of created, you know, I don't know, 30 years ago that the men should have 50, 50, unless there's a real issue there. So if they want it, they can have it. And now I think, hopefully, people. I try to spread the word on this show that I've talked to children that were split 50, 50, and it wasn't necessarily the best for them. And it wasn't necessary in keeping the relationship. It just made the child's life chaotic.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Would you like to live out of a suitcase? Two different places.

[Heather McDonald]

Sometime at nine with two different. And then you forget the soccer pads. And now your parents are fighting and it's really your fault because you're nine and you should have remembered to pack the soccer pads. I mean, it's just too much. And it's like, I've said that too. And I've had a friend that was like dating a divorced dad of a.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Teenager and something I would never.

[Heather McDonald]

He was getting all, like, butt hurt, you know, because she. And I'm like. And I said to him, I had the opportunity to listen. I go, my parents were married forever. I lived with my dad. I loved my dad. I didn't wanna hang out with my dad at 16. It's like, weird. It's not who you wanna hang out with, but you love them. So all you have to do is. Exactly what you said. Be consistent. Take em to lunch, brunch. If they have something that big weekend, don't get all fucking butthurt and call them a little pig like Alex Baldwin. Understand? You're the parent, they're the kid. They'll come around, they'll mature.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Great throwback reference.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean like grow up. It's not about you daughter.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Ireland named her child Holland as well, I think, but absolutely the flow goes one way. And I've heard so many dads go, well, she's using me for rides, I don't get anything back.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, you only call me when you need money for homecoming. Who cares?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes, you're my dad. The flow goes one way, parent to child, like there's nothing they can do wrong. Just make yourself available, make some type of sacrifice. And unfortunately, no, my, my daughter doesn't have the dad that I would want her to have. But he's not a bad person.

[Heather McDonald]

And you know what that could change. You never know. Years go on, it may never be the thing. But there, there, it's good that you never got to a place that it's like severed because you know, you never want to be the one that's like, well, I don't even have. You know. And listen, when the, when you put together the wedding and you pay for the whole fricking thing.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And she. And he's there and they're still, you know, so what? Like, so what? Like that's, that's so interesting. So, okay, so getting back to your.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Stand up life when she was. Yes, almost two. Okay. And then we weren't really good even before that. So as soon as I had her, I was like, oh gosh, I'm gonna have to make a go of this myself. And then I just thought that being a standup comedian was conducive to single motherhood.

[Heather McDonald]

Actually, it's like a stripper.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, yeah, it is.

[Heather McDonald]

Exactly. I always feel like stripper's always had like a four year old son.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Because you can be home in the day and then you work when they're sleeping.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So did you start traveling with her? Like what was your big break?

[Kathryn Ryan]

She came everywhere with me. So the UK is so amazing for standup because it is small, but there are gigs in all these towns and cities every night of the week. So I started touring properly, like a small tour.

[Heather McDonald]

So wait, when did you move from Canada to the uk?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Before she was born. Because he Was English British? No, he was Canadian.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But he wanted to live. Well, it's a sad story. He wanted to be a comedian. I know. And I don't really think. I don't know what he's doing.

[Heather McDonald]

So wait, you met on the comedy circuit?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Which is such a red flag. We shouldn't do that.

[Heather McDonald]

This is.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I know.

[Heather McDonald]

I never want to date a comedian. And I always thought they just wanted to be my friend and give me tags to jokes. And then when they would hunt on me, I was like, excuse me, have you looked at yourself? And have you looked at me?

[Kathryn Ryan]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

Why would you think I'd want you? You're broke.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I didn't have that confidence. I was like, you're broke. I can fix that for you. You have mental health issues and addiction. You know, I'm your gal. I'm a firstborn daughter, so leave it to me.

[Heather McDonald]

I love that whole firstborn daughter stuff that's going on too.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's a thing. Are you a firstborn daughter?

[Heather McDonald]

No, I'm the youngest of five.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But isn't that interesting because sometimes the youngest has firstborn daughter energy all over again.

[Heather McDonald]

Interesting. Probably that's. That would be the case with me. I also find it interesting that a lot of comedians and comedy writers are the youngest of big families and just like all but two presidents are first born males.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Are they. And they've been killing it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's so interesting.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I would bring her with me. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Kathryn Ryan]

The first time I did television in the UK was May 2012. So my daughter was almost three and that went very well. We have a lot of panel shows in the uk, a lot of opportunities to be funny and to be seen on television, which sells tickets to your tour. So then I was always touring after that and it just, I just got really lucky. My career just got. Our life got really great after that quite quickly.

[Heather McDonald]

Have you ever thought of doing like a bigger. Like you just brought up Bert Kreischer. So his show is on Netflix right now.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And it's a scripted show based on his life and his daughters and his. And his wife. And it's his humor. It's edgy. It's a little different. It's not your typical comedian's sitcom based on their life story. Then there's Leanne, which is very. Is also a Netflix. She's great. And they changed her life and made her divorced. And that was. At first she was like, Heather, I didn't want to do that. You know, she's like, you know You've.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Added her to your list of celebrities.

[Heather McDonald]

She's just like, you know, she's just so. And she's so genuine and so sweet.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Did you know her on the circuit before she.

[Heather McDonald]

No. Well, years ago, I was like, trying to sell a show or whatever, and my manager sent me her pilot. I had never heard of her. And it was like. And I was like, who is this Southern, like, blonde woman that, you know, this is like 15 years ago that has sold a show. How do I not know about her? And I remember there was a whole funny bit about how she has to have sex with her husband in the closet before church so that they could get chicken after. And like, you know, and all the, like, her funny, like her. Her shtick, you know, she's so good and. But really clever and really funny. And so no, all those pilots didn't go. And then she came on my show a couple years ago just when her standup was really going off. And then of course, she has the Netflix show. But I like how sometimes they do change it and it does make sense from a writer's point of view. It is funnier that you're divorced. It is funny to see you date and have hot flashes. All that works for him. It's funny that they made the daughters younger. And I know that they went to the same all girl high school that I went to.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, really?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I actually got an email to speak in a class about podcasting from a student, and I was like, georgia, are you Bert's daughter? And she's like, yes. Will you speak in the class? And I was like, yes. This is great. So the story is they're at a private school, whatever, and it's very edgy. It's pretty sexual. Have you seen it?

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, it's sexual.

[Heather McDonald]

But I believe it's in the truth of his life as a dedicated dad. But his sense of humor. But obviously you make a few little changes. Have you ever tried to do a show about your life, being a mom and all that?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, I have a series on Netflix called the Duchess and that is about. It's like a departure from my life. Like you said, there are changes. So it was. It came out right in the height of COVID and Netflix.

[Heather McDonald]

That's not a good time.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, Netflix had this brief cancellation. Do you remember the show about the little dancing girls? What was it called?

[Heather McDonald]

Very Sexual.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, I think it wasn't, but the branding of it seemed like it was going to be. And they shut down all their social media because people got so upset. I forget what it was called.

[Heather McDonald]

No, I know what you mean, though.

[Kathryn Ryan]

The Duchess came out that week, so we had, like, no social media promotion. Some people liked it, some people really didn't. I loved making it, I think.

[Heather McDonald]

So it was about what.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But it was about this single mother who had one daughter and who was considering having another baby with the estranged father, even though they were like arch enemies. And that was something that wasn't true in my real life, obviously. But I just thought, I think I know a lot of women who are dissatisfied in their marriage, but they stay to have one more baby.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And I think I know a lot of women. Khloe Kardashian, again. It all comes back to the Kardashians. If Khloe Kardashian could just watch the Duchess, because it really is her life. This. This woman was fashionable and she was fun and she had a foul mouth. I really based it a little bit on, like, Kenny fucking Powers. I really loved. Have you seen Kenny Powers?

[Heather McDonald]

I feel I know that name.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's Danny McBride. And he had an amazing series called Kenny Powers, Eastbound and Down.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, Eastbound and Down.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes. And I loved that. This man was complicated and he swore. And I love male villains like Tony Soprano. Nobody's looking for his softness or his redeeming qualities. But for women, we don't really get away with being like that. They want to see our vulnerability. But this woman was not vulnerable. Her vulnerability, I think, was in her hyper independence as a trauma response. But she was like, I wanna have a second kid with this guy. He lived on a boat, he was wild. He was, you know, again, crazy.

[Heather McDonald]

So in creating this world.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So was she a standup or.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, no.

[Heather McDonald]

And when you were like meeting with execs and stuff, at any point, did you pitch it as she's a stand up. Cause they never want you to be a stand up.

[Kathryn Ryan]

They never want. No, I didn't even get that far because I knew they never want you to be a standup. So she. She this angered people. Actually, she was a ceramic pottery artist.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But she was really rich. And people all the time, even men that I really admire, men I really love, they'd be like, oh, I had a problem with why was she rich, though. Why was she rich? And I was like, why is Ricky Gervais character in Afterlife, who writes for a local print magazine, got a 5 million pound Hampstead Heath mansion? Nobody asks why the men are financially solvent on television.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. If you're gonna create a character, why not make her rich?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I just wanted her to be rich. I wanted a single mother to be really satisfied, to love her child and to be rich for no reason. I wanted it to piss people off. But maybe she was like an incredible. You don't know what her backstory is. Maybe she got money from her parents. We don't know anything about her parents. Her ex husband was a pop star. Like a disgraced pop star. Maybe she got money from that split and invested it well. But they just, they, they didn't like it. They were like, why is she rich? And I went, because of your reaction. That's why she's rich. I just wanted this woman to be rich. But that didn't go ahead for a second series. But it was fun to make.

[Heather McDonald]

It's. It's so unfortunate about timing like that. Cause I kind of had a similar thing with my second special. Yeah, it was like around the COVID where first they were like, no, we don't want it. And then they're like, oh shit, this Covid's lasting longer and we're not gonna be able to have anything. So maybe we do want it. And then. Okay, no, no we don't. And then I'm like, well, I'll just put it out. And then by that time people were like starting to go out again and they were like, well, this isn't like, like, you know, like you needed that window of like Tiger King.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, Tiger King. You need just never know what's going to.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Like it could be a boo boo. Yeah, it could be. It could be. Yeah, it could be a weird thing. Would you ever. Does anyone want to explore it now? Because now with this, all these babies, or do you just like doing your life on social media and doing standup?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I mean, I still do a lot of television in the uk.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I see you do a lot of like funny improvisational, like game show type of.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And you're so quick witted. That's really good for you.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Not with these pregnancies. It has turned my brain to mush. But I do have a 20, 26 goal to like get hot, get thin. I've got the extensions back. Like I'm going to recover. I'm gonna do like surgically, whatever it takes. I'm going to recover from all of this motherhood stuff. I'm gonna keep being a good mom.

[Heather McDonald]

But I want to, like, until you get pregnant again.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh my gosh. Yeah, You've scared me now with the Irish egg story. But I don't know about you. When you're a stand up, you're Alone a lot.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And you're your own editor and the audience laughs so they don't laugh. And you, you write your own material and that's it. I did find it a little bit difficult working as part of a team and having to take notes on your TV show. Yes. And having to justify choices.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you have a hard time? I had a hard time when I was in that. Cause I've been in that situation a couple times with pilots, scripted pilots that then didn't go to the next level. But they did buy the pilot. We had to write it. And I had a hard time telling the other co writer. Cause they always had to put me with an actual showrunner, which I understood. Like, no, that's dorky, that's corny, that's not funny. That's not me. That's low hanging fruit. I think I'd be better today in it. Yeah, well, you don't want to. But I still have a hard time. Well, I definitely was not a bitch. I wasn't bitchy enough. I think if I would have. And I remember I let somebody read it. This guy that I was like was like the camera guy on the TV show I was working on. And he goes, there's like a Xanax joke in here. And he goes, I know you've never had a Xanax.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I'm like, well, the other girl wrote that. And I think it's relatable. Like I am the kind of person that would maybe take a Xanax.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I'd love to have one while I'm in town.

[Heather McDonald]

I just had a Xanax for the first time like two years ago.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Lovely.

[Heather McDonald]

After like this, you know, our latest whatever. Like the doctor gave it to me and then when it ran out, I said, well, that was the best sleep of my entire life and I would like to have more. And he's like, that's the reason I'll never give it to you. I'm like, bummer. But anyway, I remember him being like, I just hasn't seen that much of you in this. And I was like, well, whatever.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, everybody else wants to put their own stamp on it too. And it's great to be collaborative. And a lot of these people do have more experience than I do, certainly. But I think it's something that's lorded over women of you don't want to be a bitch. And you'll hear you don't want to be Roseanne. So and so's a bitch. You know, so and so is really difficult. We get branded with these terms. And then you go into a project, you go, well, I don't want to be difficult, so I'll just like lay down and let everybody do what they want. Or maybe not articulate myself the way that I can. In stand up. In stand up, you can be a bitch to yourself. You can be a shrewd as you like, cutting your own jokes or changing things. I'm really not good at the, like deliberating and collaborating. And I certainly hate micromanaging people. Yeah, I don't want to tell people what to do at all, but it was still fun.

[Heather McDonald]

You mentioned Brooklyn earlier and we kind of like got off on it. What do you feel about that whole thing I've talked about as a boy? Mom, I side with Victoria on this one, but what do you think of that whole situation with Brooklyn and the wedding and all of that?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, I just read in the car and it could be false information, but it said that Nicola's billionaire father gives her a million dollars a month. And I would. I would alienate my entire family for that kind of wealth. Of course I would. I'll cut all ties with my family now to be married to that girl, including the children. Take them. Like, I get. I get.

[Heather McDonald]

And also, it's a man. Also, he's a boy.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Look.

[Heather McDonald]

And look at how it happened to Harry. I think it happens easier with men when it happens to a woman. Everyone is like, oh, my God, she's being held captive by a narcissist who's alienated and she's being abused. But when it happens with a man, they're just like, oh, well, he got married and he doesn't feel this way anymore. And. But I do think a part of it is the money, you know, like, I don't know, you don't want for anything. You don't need for anything. Even though he came from the Beckhams and that was nice. It's not full time private jet money. You know what I mean? It's still, you have to hustle and work.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Have you heard any juicy scoops around the town about her behavior?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, that she's really unpleasant.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Have you heard that?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, like, very difficult, very bratty. And as beautiful as she is and everything.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So beautiful.

[Heather McDonald]

But then I'm always like, I take that with a grain of salt, too, because I'm like, sometimes you're allowed to have a bad day. Sometimes you're allowed to not like your hair.

[Kathryn Ryan]

That hair.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm just saying. There was a hairdresser that said she was Difficult.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I know. He's gone on Reddit and everything, hasn't he?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I mean, it's tricky because I love the Beckhams. And I think what Brooklyn fails to see is he would not even be in an echelon of meeting someone like Nicola Peltz if it weren't for the decisions his parents made.

[Heather McDonald]

True. Good point.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Is she dating, like, Joe Schmo from the taco stand? No, no, she's married to him because he's a Beckham. And then his parents were still figuring it out, too. Like, it is very difficult to come from a working class background and be the biggest football star in all the world and to come from a regular family and to become a Spice Girl.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And the paparazzi were ruthless in the UK at that time. Like, there was no conversation about boundaries or mental health or anything. And they were. People were so interested in them when they got together and then when they were pregnant with Brooklyn and they just had to make choices about how to raise him and how much to expose him to the world, I guess.

[Heather McDonald]

And looking back, as someone who's covered pop culture for 20 years.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't feel like I know everything about Brooklyn the way I don't. Northwest.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, like, there's a level, and I don't think he should really be. I thought it was shocking, the letter. I think she wrote it about how they felt they were being paraded around. And so it's a red carpet. Like, nobody even knew you were still a. We forgot. You didn't go to the dad's birthday until you wrote that fucking letter. Like you. I believe she wrote the letter. She wants to stay in the thing. Talked about and powerful. And they're doing the right thing, the parents, by just sending the text, offering to drop off the Starbucks. Just know that you're not ghosting them.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I think you can.

[Heather McDonald]

Even though it doesn't feel reciprocated, whatever's.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Going on in that family and, you know, they've made it our business, but ultimately it's none of our business. I think you can distance yourself with Grace. You don't have to make a public statement like that that, you know is going to be world news. That's gonna humiliate. And also again, about womanhood, motherhood. David is not mentioned in the letter at all. It's like my mother danced inappropriately on me. It's all really on her being a narcissist and on her overstepping. And it's very Nicola versus Victoria. It's become this female thing. And if a spice. I don't know. I know some people who were at the wedding in question, and I think it has been said by DJ Fat Tony. Are you familiar with him? He's very thin.

[Heather McDonald]

I saw the clip from the sun or whatever, whatever the Ukee show is.

[Kathryn Ryan]

This is all Marc Anthony's fault because he called Victoria to the dance floor. What kind of dancing? I don't know what she.

[Heather McDonald]

It was supposed to be a Latin dance. So that's why he said, put your hands on her hips to go like that. I think it's. And they had already danced. We found out later they had already had their first dance.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But I think that it has made Vicki B. Incredibly relatable.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Because, like, you know, again, the mother.

[Heather McDonald]

Cannot do anything right on the vinos. Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

If a Spice Girl had, like, grinded up on me at my wedding, it'd be the best day of my life.

[Heather McDonald]

I know.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So, I mean, people have actual problems. Brooklyn.

[Heather McDonald]

I also feel when I got married, I didn't feel like it was just my day. I did feel like it was my family's day and it was my parents day. Maybe because I was a performer and I was like, I've had more nerve. Like, I never understood why someone was nervous walking down the aisle. I'm like, it's not like you're doing standup in front of hundreds of people.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, for some people, they can.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. So I get it, and I get why you want it to be the way you want it. But, like, I was like, no, I know I'm getting married in the church. I know I'm getting married. We're going to do it this way. They're paying.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Did you enjoy your wedding? Did you find it?

[Heather McDonald]

I did, I did. But if I was truly to say what I wanted or loved, well, I still think I would have gotten married in the church, because I. I did always imagine getting married in that church.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You are so religious. You've spoken about God a few times. Today you're going to heaven.

[Heather McDonald]

I believe in him, but I went to Catholic school and I was the same church. I used to sit there and, like, kind of imagine my wedding. So, like, I wrote that in the little thing and we did. And I would never. It would have killed my parents if I didn't do that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Fine.

[Heather McDonald]

And I was just like, it's fine, but do I. Do I think it's more beautiful to get married, like, on the cliffs of, like, overlooking the ocean and having it be 25 minutes long and. Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Would you renew your vows.

[Heather McDonald]

Then I think that is. I think that I would do it if I was like. If it was for, like a reality show, I would do it for those reasons. I think it's weird, a weird thing to do. Because when you're getting married for the first time, everyone's hopeful, everyone thinks it's beautiful. You're young. When you renew your vows, whether it's for a reality show in real life, the people there know what shit's gone down.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[Heather McDonald]

And they're like, why are we here? When I know who cheated, I knew. Or I know when they were fighting about which school to go to. And I, like, I just feels. It feels weird. If you were to do it. I think it's really beautiful. If, like, I knew this couple and the husband surprised her after 10 years at this, at the church with, like, just like five couples. Like, it surprised her with it and.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It was like he cheated.

[Heather McDonald]

No, I think he just knew that it would be lovely for her.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Sweet.

[Heather McDonald]

So I. I think it's like, you can't have, like a big thing where you come down the aisle in a wedding dress and you're like 16. Like, it's been like. I think that's weird. I think if there's like a weird moment where you can do it maybe, like, I don't know. I think it's weird when celebrities, like, there's some celebrities that do it every year or something for Nicola have done it already. They have. Because the wedding was so traumatic.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

They really. I'm just like, you know what it's like. Come on. The wedding also is one day. So I also feel. I have a lot, a lot of opinions about the weddings. I feel also you don't need to invite anyone. I don't care what relative they are. If you feel like they are not there for the right reasons. If you feel like their vibe is off. I don't care if your mom begs, you don't have them now. I didn't have that luxury. I had to have those people because my mom begged me. But I would say you regret that. Yeah, I regret that. I think it should be. Take a minute then, like, maybe don't get married this year. Like, figure it out, like, or do it something smaller and then have a reception they can pay for. And you don't really care because you already had, like, the moments. I don't know. I think it's great that people aren't ordering china anymore. I think it's great that people that you can Put money towards their honeymoon.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yep.

[Heather McDonald]

I think all that stuff is good. What was your wedding like?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I didn't have one. So we got married at. Oh, you'll love this because you work so hard. So my husband's Canadian. I'm Irish citizenship, so I'm able to live and work in the uk. But for my husband to stay, we had only just had like a one night stand nine months before and his visa was running out.

[Heather McDonald]

And you were about to give birth.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

You're pregnant. You didn't get pregnant on the first bow.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I took the morning after pill, but probably I was. I was mentally lucid on that night. I was like, oh, shoot. And I looked at my calendar. I was ovulating. I was like, oh, my God, I can't be with this man forever. I'm gonna take the morning after pill. And then I married him nine months later anyway. But so I had to marry him to keep him in the country. Otherwise, like, it wasn't something that was important to us. He already had a starter marriage with no kids like you described.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Which I love. And he knows he can't do better than me. Cause he's already tr. And a woman, a wonderful woman, humbled him before he came into my life. And so we flew to Copenhagen and we got married in a city hall because they don't have any rules about how long you have to be there. And then we did that at 11am and then we flew back and I did a standup job that night in my wedding dress, which was like a.

[Heather McDonald]

But how great though, did you come on St. John? I just got married and all that. Oh, I love that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

In a green Valentino. Just like tea dress. It wasn't.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, so you didn't even wear white.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Such a repeat.

[Heather McDonald]

But you ever. Do you have a fantasy about ever having like a whole thing and all the kids are like walking in it, carrying the rings.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I wouldn't be able to say nice things about him in front of people at this point. You know, when you've known a man too long.

[Heather McDonald]

That's what I think too, about the renewing.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Could you stand there and be like. And no. Like.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I. It would feel. That's what I'm saying. That's why I think renewing vows and stuff is weird. Like. Like it should be at the start of your life together, only before he's pissed you off.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, I love him. I really do love him. But. Yeah, I wouldn't be able to do it with a straight face. But is that because we're comedians. Can other people just move on from things and be like, he is the most wonderful man. I don't know. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, oh, I love it when you sneeze, like, extra loud and clear your throat.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Love it when you snore. Like, you're showing off. You're asleep and I'm awake.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So I love how much all these kids have benefited your biological legacy at the expense of my career. And figure, you know what I mean? I have that outlet in my standup. I'm actually quite mean about my husband in my standup.

[Heather McDonald]

But I think now, does he ever care about it?

[Kathryn Ryan]

He doesn't. Like, he's just got the best sense of humor.

[Heather McDonald]

He doesn't care.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And I think he feels so loved. He understands why I'm doing it. And then I am like you. I turn the other cheek. I bounce back quickly. I don't have time to stay mad. I have this outlet there.

[Heather McDonald]

One thing. It was like, one time he was irritating me or whatever, and now I will be like, I have to perform. Whether it's the podcast or whatever, I have to perform in a couple hours and I have to be in a great mood and I have to talk about my fun, cute life. And so I can't take it. And the conversation has to end right here. And then it does, because it's like, I cannot carry. Like, I. And I could. I could switch it off. I could be like, you know, that's what we have to do. We have to be like, right away and be like, how you guys doing tonight? You know, like. And it. That's. That's the hard part about it. It's like, we can't just go, I need a mental health day.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Although you could. Now that kind of stand up's doing very well.

[Heather McDonald]

Just mental health day. Or come out mentally hurting, cry on.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Stage for an hour, talk about, like, everything that happened to you that made you sad that day. People love that.

[Heather McDonald]

Are you being serious? Is that. Is that becoming a thing?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I think so, yeah. Oh, wow. I've seen all kinds of things. Are you familiar with the Edinburgh Fringe Festival?

[Heather McDonald]

I've heard of it, yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's this amazing festival in Scotland where people do one hour and they do every night for 30 days. And it is really character building as a comedian. It's like, it's a really great thing to do, but there's.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, you do the same hour for 30 days to really. And then. And then they. It goes, like, what, they film it or something.

[Kathryn Ryan]

If you're lucky. Or sometimes you might win an award or you just might come out of it a better comedian.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, great.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And people come from all over the world, but it is quite a thing to have a narrative, especially like a sad, you know, narrative, a tragic thing. Yeah. There's, there's one comedian, so it's more.

[Heather McDonald]

Like a one woman or one man show versus, like a stand up of jokes and stories. Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And sometimes tragedy, as you know, can be really funny, and it's fine. But I've seen shows about, like, sexual abuse and all kinds of wild things that you wouldn't be doing in a club.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You'll be like, hey, Saturday night at the casino. Let me tell you about my uncle.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you think there's an unwritten rule of, like, you kind of need that to stand out?

[Kathryn Ryan]

I think that it is rewarded critically to have that kind of narrative. And I don't have an opinion about whether it's good or bad. I think there are no rules. You could write a very funny show about anything.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But yeah, Edinburgh does love a narrative. And like, something happy, like baby reindeer. Are you familiar with. Oh yeah, that was an Edinburgh show.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I refer to, like, haters as baby reindeers. Oh, like stalker hater types.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Fine.

[Heather McDonald]

I say if my friend's ever like, I can't believe this person wrote that. I'm like, imagine the baby reindeer, like, lives with her mom, is miserable and jealous of you. Like, don't worry about it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

How are you with criticism? Really? You don't mind?

[Heather McDonald]

I, I, I do.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Oh, you do?

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, no, I do. But I've worked it out where I don't see it anymore.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Fine.

[Heather McDonald]

I delete and block a lot of people.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Hence why my social media hasn't grown that much. I think I blocked like a thousand people.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And you could just mute them and then they still follow you.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, really?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, well, from now on, you'll be okay.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I also, they don't know they've been muted.

[Heather McDonald]

I know I mute people that I, that I still am fond of, but I just don't like to watch their shit anymore. And I don't want the world to know that I'm not seeing their stuff. And then I did, but I thought when people write mean things, or if they think they're a bot or whatever, then I do block and delete and then. Yeah, and I don't go to the sites where there's mean things. It's just sometimes if it's one little comment under a thing that doesn't really bother Me.

[Kathryn Ryan]

But they do take a block as a Medal of Honor, though. They'll put in their bio, like, blocked by Heather McDonald's.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you're right. Okay, well, maybe that'll stop now, too. No, I kind of got over, like, a really good hump recently about it, and now I think I could, like, do a TED Talk on it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Great.

[Heather McDonald]

Of, like, how what you should do and how you should see it to get over it. Because, like I said, some of these people are, like, really clever, and they, like, bring up something that I wouldn't even know I had an insecurity about. You know, and it's like, oh. Or I feel really bad. Like, I feel really badly, like, that I disappointed them somehow, or I didn't do my work right or didn't research this enough or whatever. And then finally, I was just like, this is a comedic conversation podcast.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I fuck up things. I mispronounce things. But one thing I do is I put it. I'm absolutely consistent. So if you didn't like this show, there's gonna be another one tomorrow or Thursday. And, like, that's it. And I just. And I just go, it's not gonna matter. It's not gonna make a difference. That's why I want to. Before we end, I wanna say, I loved this. You didn't. Was this from an article you did? It's beautiful. Your quote was, there are lots of men in my industry who've been canceled but still earn millions. And isn't that the truth?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, well, they always ask you the same questions, don't they, in interviews. I was pregnant in this. You can't tell my body, but you can tell in my jaw.

[Heather McDonald]

You look great.

[Kathryn Ryan]

They'll ask you about sex predators in the industry. They ask you about cancellation. They ask you all these things. And I don't know, I'm not scared of being canceled myself, but I'm not sure it even exists as a thing.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't think it exists anymore. And I don't think it ever did. Unless you're like Harvey Weinstein. Who knows he could even come back. But, like, imagine that. I just think there was a time where there was a time, like, there was those couple years where it just. It felt like, you know, like Salem Witch Hunt kind of a thing, where it's like, who's next? And then. And there was time where it was very exciting. Like, I'd get real happy. I'd wake up and I'm like, who's next? Like, I don't know. I kind of got off on it. And then there were some that I was like, I think this guy just might have been, like, a rude date, Right?

[Kathryn Ryan]

No. Bad date.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. I'm like, I think he was just. I just don't think he had good bedside manner as a player. Like, I don't think this guy did anything wrong. And that's where I was like, okay, now this has kind of gotten to a place where I'm like, we don't need to know everything. And then I'm like, some of these girls. This is a chance to write an article and brag that you banged an ugly comedian. You know what I mean? Like, there was some of that, and then there was a lot that I was like, oh, shit. You know?

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

The Chris Delias of it all and all that.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You know, still doing very well.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, because the men don't care. And also the women forget, too. And I'm also like, well, if, you know, if the club wants to put that person up and that person is selling better than this person, I can't blame a club owner for wanting to sell as many tickets and make as much money as possible.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Didn't Bill Cosby do the Riyadh Festival? Was he one of the comedians who went out there?

[Heather McDonald]

I think he was.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Louis CK Was out there. Wait, is he.

[Heather McDonald]

He.

[Kathryn Ryan]

So he's out of prison, he's touring. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And he's alive, I think.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Well, he's definitely alive, but I think he did this festival. And I used to talk about. I mean, at that time.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Why would they care?

[Kathryn Ryan]

It's tricky because there was a time, certainly in Hollywood, when a lot of this behavior was frowned upon. It wasn't illegal yet. It was just frowned upon. It would happen. Women would avoid it.

[Heather McDonald]

People would just joke about a casting couch. Ha ha.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Right. And then all of a sudden, it's a thing. It's like Tyra Banks right now is being dragged for a lot of the challenges on America's Next Top Model. And I think that's mean. Cause I'm like, well, then she kind.

[Heather McDonald]

Of jumped ahead of it. Cause now she's doing a doc that's coming out, and she's gonna probably say, hey, you guys all watched it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

It was a different time.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, things are different. And when Sarah Silverman said something really good, I can't quote it correctly, but it was basically like, comedy is what's relevant.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And meaning it. It is timely. And something that someone said 15 years ago shouldn't make you laugh as hard as it did 15 years ago. And. And that doesn't make someone bad. Like, you know, it's. It's. It's just historical.

[Kathryn Ryan]

We said childless. Now we say child free.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And by the way, it sounds like I'm excusing sex predators. I'm not.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I am excusing Tyra Banks behavior on America's Next Top Model. Because I did really enjoy that show. I was toxic myself back then.

[Heather McDonald]

And also, like, that was the whole thing. Bring it up. Your act, it's reality. But they're asking for you to do more. And whether you're a housewife or whatever, the sooner you act erratic and give them a scene that will make the tv, the quicker your mic gets removed and you can change out and take off your Spanx and get into bed. And so sometimes they're like, how much longer? Make something happen at this dinner. And then they do.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I loved your conversation with Spencer Pratt the other day.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, thank you.

[Kathryn Ryan]

And how he just set out to be a villain. He understood the game before any of us even knew it was a game.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, it was really good.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, thank you. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed you coming in. I know it was a lot to get here. No, look, and I appreciate you coming. Cause I thought this was a really fun time.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I've always loved you. I admire you. And I just couldn't believe that I got to meet you today. Getting to Los Angeles aside, that had nothing to do with you and everything to do with my enemies at American Airlines.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, tell everybody where they can follow you and where they can see more of your stuff.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I'm only on Instagram and TikTok at the moment because that X site really troubles me.

[Heather McDonald]

I. I am on X. I've not removed it. But I. I don't. I don't post on there very much because by the time I post on Instagram and TikTok, I'm, like, tired.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah, I don't even make it to TikTok. I'll be honest. A lot of the time I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, TikTok's been really weird. And, like, I'm getting no views, so I'm like. I don't even know if I want to take the time to put on there, but I have a lot of followers, so I feel like I should. Should. And I'll just wait it out until this weird algorithm figures out, who knows? But Instagram. Instagram is what I like the most.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Me too. So I'm Kath Bum on there, which is weird. It's always been. It's just what my Parents called me cute. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And your parents like your act?

[Kathryn Ryan]

They do, my. Yes. So my mother is so glamorous and cool, and she's really funny and really the kind of woman who would upset people.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Herself, you know, just very provocative. Growing up. And my dad wasn't really into it until I started doing very well, and now he loves it.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, good.

[Kathryn Ryan]

He was a bit like. And then when I became very financially solvent, he was like, fine. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I love it. Well, everybody check her out. See if she's coming to your town.

[Kathryn Ryan]

No, I'm never traveling again. Not until these kids are in college.

[Heather McDonald]

So this is the last time.

[Kathryn Ryan]

I don't think. Well, yeah. Yeah. I think motherhood has made it clear to me. I can't do it. We're sick. We're here with a newborn.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Ryan]

She started her day today. Last night. And I think I've been awake for four years, and I'm not gonna do it again.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay. So I think you'll change your mind. I think you just. But I do think that you should be smart about it and feel like, what kind of a tour or shows would work if it's like, one month, one week in a month or something.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You just have to make it work for you, and then you might.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. Come out here all the time. I loved it with my daughter, My one chic daughter. I'll leave you with this. Just have one chic daughter, learn from my mistakes. And I love my children.

[Heather McDonald]

I. I mean, I. I have a stepdaughter who we raised, and I have two boys. And I just saw this in a comment somewhere where somebody was talking about families, and someone just wrote, this is just in the comment. It just stuck with me. She's like, the only families that I've seen that are perfect are a mom and a dad and two daughters only. And I thought. And I told my sister that because we were, like, the youngest of five, and at one point, the others had grown up, and they had kind of had troubled teen lives. And then my dad and mom would just take us on trips, and my dad used to just call us the Fab Four. But they were all the kids from the same parents, which I thought was, like, rude to my older sister, my older brother. But I was like, dad knew it was right. Like, girls are easy, and we got along. So if you could have two daughters that are best friends, and then the dad kind of hangs back because he's the dad and it's the mom and the daughter show. I mean, I'm just saying if. If you can create it. That's what I would say, too.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah. No, I love that. To the babies. I'm sure.

[Heather McDonald]

My sons. I just think it's kind of a very easy. Just think about those families.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

In your life and how easy that family was. And just tell me if I'm wrong about it.

[Kathryn Ryan]

You're so right.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you so much. You're the best.

[Kathryn Ryan]

Very nice to meet you.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you.