← Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
I Faked Cancer, The Scamanda Doc with Journalist Nancy Moscatiello
01:20:03
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Welcome to Nadia Yada island, next on.
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Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Segment, serial data and Serial Sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. You guys, I'm so excited for you to hear this interview about the show Scamanda and the woman who brought it all down. But first I just want to remind you again to go to heathermcdall.net and get your tickets because you're gonna see the funniest show for Valentine's Day. February 14th, I'm in New York. February 15th, I'm in D.C. february, February 16th, I'm in Red Bank, New Jersey. I'm with Andrea Lopez and Anna Roisman. They are going to be opening and doing sketches for me and with me and it's all just going to be so fun and fresh like no other Juicy Scoop experience show that you've seen. So get on it. And then of course I will be in Palm Springs on March 1 with the hilarious Brandi and Julie. So get those@heathermcdall.net and now for our show. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have a very juicy one for you. This is about the show called Scamanda. I've talked about the podcast and I have the person who brought it all down, Nancy Moscatello, who was the investigative reporter is really your background and how you discovered what was going on and really brought this woman to justice. And I want to ask you all the things, but just so people know, this is a really juicy story that involves things that I am fascinated by. Liars, grifters, fake cancer. She was the nanny who then married the boss.
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B
I mean it's, it's got it all right?
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A
It's got it all. And it's called Scamanda and it was a long form podcast and now it's on ABC and Hulu premiering January 30th. So welcome. Thank you.
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B
Thanks for having me.
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A
I mean, let's just tell a little bit about. Why don't you give the little intro of like who this woman was and everything and then I'll just kind of tell you what I remember and why I was so fascinated by the story.
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B
Yeah, no, Amanda Riley, you know, was a normal, average mom, raising kids, raising, you know, two young boys. And if you've listened to the podcast like you did, her bonus daughter, right. From her husband that she married a stepdaughter and raising them in the suburbs outside of San Jose, California, attending church every Sunday, Very, very active in her church and in her community up there. And she was diagnosed with cancer in 2012 and became, I guess what you would. I mean, nowadays people refer to like, you know, cancer influencers or stuff on TikTok or in different places where they, you know, document their journey.
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A
Their whole journey.
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B
Yeah. And so she started doing that in a blog back in 2012. So way ahead of social media as we know it now. You know, she had an Instagram and she had a Facebook and she would post on there also. But her blog was kind of where if you lived in the community or you knew of her or were touched by her story because she got press back then, you know, in the community, you would follow along and it was this years long journey of her going in and out of remission.
- [04:21]
A
I mean, I was just fascinated by it and you know, to me, completely unforgivable, horrible person. She never had cancer.
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B
Nope.
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A
And there's so many layers to this story. First of all, how she came into the family, I felt didn't get enough freak out as far as like the breadth of the whole show. And that was. She was a nanny for a couple.
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B
Right, right. So she was brought in. So there was this couple, Alita and Corey and Aleda had children from a previous marriage. And one of them, the one daughter, Jamie, had cancer. And so when she married Corey and then they had their daughter together, the older daughter Jamie had cancer. And so they brought Amanda in, who was in college, a freshman in college nearby in San Jose, to help with cheerleading and like fun stuff at home, somebody she could be with because the child couldn't be out in public with, you know, during the cancer treatments. So yeah, so they brought her in that way and she was. Came really close to the family. I mean, she was involved with birthday parties and going on the boat and anything they did as a family. You know, Amanda was someone that was brought into the family and then I.
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A
Like I said, I don't think they covered it enough. And I don't know how much you can. If you were like, when did their marriage end? And the romance between the nanny that you brought in when she was only 19 years old and Corey start to develop?
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B
So it's a little unclear, but it's somewhere. There's a gray area, let's say that. So, I mean, I do think it was after the marriage dissolved or there was problems. Cause there was other. Corey had multiple women, apparently, at the time.
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A
Oh, it did, Yeah.
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B
I think things were found out later on, you know, as time went on. But at that point, they had. They had broken up. They had separated rather quickly. And then Amanda came back into, like, because she had. She had finished school, so she was around during all that time, four years of college. She had moved back to Southern California briefly. And then when she came back up is when it kind of was launched as this relationship. So. And at first, you know, Alida, as she discussed in the podcast, she was like, oh, great. I know Amanda. Like, whatever. I'm over him. Like, that's fine. At least there's someone that I can trust with my daughter. So the one daughter that they had together, of course, they shared custody with.
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A
So then they get together, and she. And so they have the one daughter that they share custody with. It was Alida, the first wife's older daughter.
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B
That had cancer.
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A
Yeah, that had cancer. And at that point, she had recovered or she was in remission.
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B
It took about a year or so after, I think Amanda came into the family. Yeah, she's doing great now.
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A
Okay. So they get married, and she has the two boys. Before she ever starts saying something's wrong with her.
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B
No, no. So when Cory and Amanda got together, there was no cancer. You know, they had met. It was when they wanted custody of Jessa, which is the daughter, as Amanda always referred to her, the bonus daughter, that things started to deteriorate very, very quickly for the family. So that's when there was a huge custody battle ensued. And then during that time is when Amanda was diagnosed with cancer.
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A
So the story is just crazy in that she switches, goes to multiple churches, does all these things, and it's all going on. What I didn't understand was why, at least in the podcast, why Alida, the mom of Jesse. Jesse.
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B
Jessa.
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A
Jessa wasn't more furious.
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B
Oh, she was furious. It was a really trying time. So, you know, when I found Alida or learned about this story. Right. Because, remember, she's diagnosed in 2012. She was in the community for about three years before I even. She was even in on my radar. So she had three years of being in this situation with Alita and her husband Corey, like, trying to get custody, trying to make Alita's life a living hell, which she did. When I finally reached Alita in 2015, she had just lost custody. She had lost custody for a handful of months by then and was in the process of desperately trying to get back. I mean, she had to go through the whole, like, supervised visitation. Like it was a very drawn out.
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A
Situation because there was just lies and things.
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B
Yeah. I mean, when you go back in the court records like I did, and you read the transcripts from the different judges that handled it, because in family, I learned a lot about this particular family court case. Every two years you switch a judge and stuff, and the first judge that they had actually cited a lot of things about Corey having caused parent alienation towards Alita. So there was a lot of stuff. Not him lying in court. They caught him in so many lies. And then when it switched cases where a different judge was assigned after the first two years is when things kind of took a turn. And he then got representation from. He was representing himself for so long, and he got representation, funny enough, from a very high ranking member in the church that she was scanning.
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A
So let's talk a little bit about your role. So what is your background as a journalist? You're an investigator?
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B
Yeah, I'm an investigative producer and TV producer. So it depends on the type of shows and stuff I'm working on. But I work a lot in true crime. And I started off back in the day on a TV show called Hard Copy.
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A
Oh, I loved Hard Copy.
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B
So I ran the news.
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A
I just remember every night was about O.J.
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B
I worked the O.J. case to nauseam. Yes.
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A
Really?
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B
Yeah. So I wouldn't be the one in the courtroom, let's say. But I'll do all the preps, get all the interviews, do all the research, pull the stories together, and then work with the person that would then, you know, be on air, which, you know, in that aspect. And. And I've done that for years. I started at Hard Copy with Menendez when I first got there, and I was a desk assistant. And then Amy Fisher and the Buttafuka. Like, I've worked hordes of cases. Yeah.
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A
Oh, my God. Amy Fisher. So when our Hard Copy. Let's talk about that for a minute. Hard Copy was on like every night at 7pm and with those big, high profile cases that Just. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, the Buttafuocos. For those of you guys that don't know, this is a juicy case out of. Was it New Jersey?
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B
Where was New York? Long Island.
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A
Long Island. A couple with two teenage kids. He was. He ran the car.
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B
Auto body shop.
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The auto body shop. And he starts having an affair with this girl who is 16.
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16.
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16. And she goes over to the house one day, the mom opens the door, his wife. And she shoots her.
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Yeah.
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Amy Buttafuoco. No, sorry, Amy. No, Amy. What was Amy?
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B
Amy Fisher.
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A
Amy Fisher. And it was Mary Jo Buttafuoco. And it. I mean, I feel like that's going to be. Even though these stories have been regurgitated 50 billion times, there's probably another Ryan Murphy thing going in that. Even though. So that one, they did three made.
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B
For TV movies when they used to do the old. Yeah.
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A
And it was. One was from Amy Fisher's Point of View, which I wanna say Drew Barrymore played that one. Then there was a one. There was one from Mary Jo and Joey's Point of View, which was this crazy, obsessed girl came out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere. All he did was fix her dent. Like what? You know, and she. And they were high school sweethearts and they're gonna stay strong together. And then the third made for TV movie was from like a Reporter's Point of View. And they were all like competing. Like, one was on abc, one was on NBC, one was on cbs. It was crazy. But I feel like Hard Copy would give us the realness of that every week. And so when you're working on a show like that, do the powers that be say, like, I don't care how minuscule element. There was a dog walker who knew Cato the dog. Or like, I mean, is it just like every day we need a story about O.J. like, we need something.
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B
Yes and no. I mean, for us, like, we tried to get stuff that had some substance to it. I mean, like, for Amy Fisher. People did tons of stories on Amy Fisher because they slowly released, you know, footage. At the time of her talking, I think she was working at a gym. And her boyfriend at the time, it made her look really bad. Right? Like talking about, oh, you know, I like older men or whatever she was talking about at the time. And then in time, you know, for Hard Copy, I got the first interview with Amy Fisher. I went to prison and interviewed her with our correspondent. And I had been corresponding with her over time. So, like, things take time. You know, I'll reach out and Say, listen, she was 16 and I think that got kind of not glossed over. And I listen.
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A
They called it the Long island loan time.
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B
Yeah, they really? Yes. She shot Mary Jo and I don't condone that at all. But you look back now like she was a 16 year old girl taking a car in to get fixed. And I mean he said, you know, he convinced her to do this. You know, it's.
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A
So do you. Her defense was always that she just went over to meet her and like.
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B
The gun went off by mistake.
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A
Yeah, and the gun went off by mistake.
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B
I don't necessarily.
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A
After you did all the research, what do you think? Do you think he told her to do it or do you think she did it on her own?
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B
No, I think he told her.
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A
Oh, you do?
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B
I think he hinted, you know, it was always like if she wasn't in my life, if we could be together, you know, if only. That goes a long way.
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A
Yeah.
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You know, and.
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A
Well, I remember I met Mary Jo when her book came out. And in the book, at that point, I read the book and at that point now she had left him and realized. And then. So in the book it's all the crazy shit he did leading up to that point, like with money and drugs and cheating and driving car fast cars and I think she like diagnosed him as kind of self. Diagnosed him as something. I can't remember what it was, but yeah, that was crazy. He was like trying to do stand up and just like every night I.
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B
Feel like we just saw something new.
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A
Yeah. They came to LA as a family and we broke up and. Yeah, that's another one that I'm just still really obsessed with.
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B
It'll come back.
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A
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- [18:39]
B
Yeah, they, the, the source was really adamant. They had experiences in their life that they felt was. It was obvious that this was going on. They were able to talk to me at length about it. And then also I was able to talk with others in the community also to second to Source beyond just them to understand that dynamic and how they.
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A
The dynamic of why they knew this.
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B
Was so that you didn't have and.
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A
Why did they think what were some of the tips that you could or some of the things that they believed weren't true? Because in listening to it, it felt like there was just knowing just so much that she put out there.
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B
Yeah, I think just by them reading the blog and the fact that she had this very detailed blog about stuff was what is kind of what led them to go, okay, it's time, we need to say something. But you'll learn about them in the documentary.
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A
Okay, good.
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B
So I don't want to give too much away because it gets explained better.
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A
But what was some of the things that I remember that really stuck out to me was that she would say, you know, I need these donations, this money to go to New York to John Hopkins to get this special treatment. And then she would go and she would post stuff in New York also, like, you know, the band Aids and all of looking like she got the treatments and things like that. But then what you guys discovered is. Yeah, that there were, there were no trips to this hospital.
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B
No, she was going, okay, explain that part.
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A
Because that part was confusing.
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B
I was like, wait, so what I ended up figuring out at the time, so it was Columbia, but she did John Hopkins also. She had a doctor in John Hopkins too. And he was early on that I was able to speak to him directly. And I said, can I show you a portion of this blog and you're discussed and you recommended certain things. And he answered me right away. He's like, I have no idea. I have never consulted on anything like this, not even name wise, just the scenario that I set up for him. But with Columbia, she did go. And to I guess being clever, she did make an appointment. And you can make an appointment. I can make an appointment. You can make an appointment and go in and say, hey, I have Hodgkin's lymphoma and I'm thinking of changing my treatment plan and I would like a second opinion. And what can you tell me about your facility and the type of trials you do here? And you can have a consultation and.
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A
They know that I'll be on the books then.
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B
Yeah, yeah. And that's at least. And then you have access to their offices, and then you have access to walking around Columbia. Here's a tour. Like, okay, so this is where we do our infusions. Here's our lab work.
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A
They're not asking you to prove it. They're not giving you a blood test. I got it.
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B
You know, I guess when you think about it, they have changed since.
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A
Oh, they have.
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B
Oh, absolutely. They. They. When I. When I contacted them to go, okay, I know you can't tell me about patients, and, you know, with HIPAA laws, I don't. I don't want to know about her. What I want to know about is. And I gave them, again, the details that she would put out to the public. I was there. My lung collapsed. I was treated with this. I had this happen. I. Overnight. Like, she would give a lot of detail, and I would ask. And on the dates, today, I'm here in New York and this happened. And so I would call and I would say, do you have a patient there today that had their lung collapse? In which. That is a member of this trial. We're not doing that trial. It was all like. And they knew I had sent them the blog and said, can you talk to me about her? They said, well, let's look at what this is. And then they let me know that they changed all their security and all their methods of how they did stuff. They were. They were. They were quite thankful, which I guess they just never. Why would someone think. Why would any place think, like, people are utilizing their facilities for this? Right? It's just. It's such an odd thing.
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A
And then what about now, I can't remember, was it that she instead went to Broadway plays or that they also. People also treated her to a Broadway play?
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B
So she, you know, some friend would say, oh, I know someone that works on. She did Saturday Night Live. I think brother knew someone there. So she went and watched that.
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A
And she went and under the guise of, my friend is, I'm sure you have cancer.
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B
I think that's part of it, you know?
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A
And did she do, like, the shaving? Did she shave her head early on?
- [23:11]
B
Yeah. The beginning of 2012 is when, you know, she posted in the blog. It's like, oh, I have to. Corey's gonna help shave my head. I have cancer, and I don't want it to fall. So she did a whole posting all about that. So, yeah, no, she did. That was the only time. And then it took. And then it grew in for the rest of the blog. It was slowly. She went and got. She would go to services for cancer patients. Wigs, makeup. Like, if they had a local thing that was like, you know, hey, we're donating wigs. We're donating this. Come to the salon. She would go. She would go for the whole thing. And then she would post, you know, on her blog, showing her pictures with all these wigs. Yeah, yeah, it was. She became a spokesperson for the Hodgkin lymphoma area up in San Jose. And I let the. And I. You know, I reached out once. Once. Once it was out there in the community, and she knew about me. And.
- [24:06]
A
How did she find out about you?
- [24:08]
B
She. She found out. I. Well, I called. I got to a point where I. The first. I was told that police had been notified at some point from my source.
- [24:19]
A
So when someone reaches out to someone like you. What? Yeah, you're just doing that. You know, it's paying you to do this at this point. You're doing this because you're like, this is a story that could become something. Like, what is the goal? Like, originally, back then, did you think it could be a podcast, a documentary, a book? Or you were just like, I'm just so curious. And I got to know more. Like, what is.
- [24:40]
B
No, I was working on a show at the time called Crime Watch Daily. It's a daily crime show. I always work in television doing different types of true crime stories.
- [24:49]
A
Okay.
- [24:49]
B
And so on that type of show, since it was a daily show, we. We would do one or two stories a night, every night for an hour. So we always looked for different stories. And scams are hard to tell visually, so it's always been one of those things. Our boss at the time was. Was always saying, I want a good scam. I want, you know, a cancer scammer. We were like, how do you do? Like, it's hard, right, to figure that out, because you can't just go on air and say, hey, I'm Nancy, and this woman doesn't have cancer. I see it a lot more now on TikTok, people calling people out, but you can't do that. And I would never want to unless I knew I was correct.
- [25:26]
A
I feel like American greed does it pretty well, but it's more about someone coming to a community and saying they have a big business and taking money from all the old church people and stuff like that.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah. And that's how it started. So I had posted in a Facebook group about people that were outing people they thought were scammers. Right. It's about different things. And I posted, you know, just that here's who I am. This is the show I'm working on. We're launching in September. And this is what I'm looking for. Different types of stories and. And people that are willing to talk to, you know, understand how to tell these stories. And that's where the person saw it and reached out to me. And they had gone to police, they had said, you know, we went to local authorities. We. We told people, and it. We just. We've never seen it handled. And now this was, you know, a number of years later, and they were like, we don't know if anyone's doing anything. So I ended up calling Detective Martinez, who's. Who's in. And he's part of the financial fraud. He was like, the one investigator in San Jose. And I spoke to him at length and said, you know, do you already know about this? Have you been contacted? And he said, let me look back and see if we've ever. And he's like, no, but I'd like to know more. And so then, you know, I started giving him as much information as I could because it was so egregious watching her post. Like, this was all happening in real time.
- [26:41]
A
Right.
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B
You know, she was still actively scamming and still, you know, besides taking the money, what she was doing to Alida during that time, they were in and out of court so much. And then. So he had reached out to her, to Amanda, saying, hey, here's who I am, and I'm looking into this. And right off the bat, it was, though, that's just my husband's ex wife, and she has a friend pretending to be a producer, you know, a TV person. And it's all lies and blah, blah, blah. So that was kind of the. So I knew she knew about me during that. And then Alita, the wife, put it into her court papers. She finally said to her, I said, it's more important you get custody back of your daughter and stuff than worrying about me. So, you know, if your attorney wants to mention, hey, there's this investigation or, hey, this is what's going on. Help. Help sort this out, by all means, you know, do what you want.
- [27:35]
A
I mean, I felt like in all that she was doing. Cause it was like someone. Let's talk about some of the things that she does, you know, so she joins many different churches.
- [27:44]
B
There were like, after. Yeah, after kind of after each other. She was most mostly in this One particular mega church. And then after that got. After a couple of years of me being involved with that, she moved on to a different community where she became principal of a little Christian school. So. But the main church, because she wasn't a religious person at first, Amanda, when we go back in, just doing more research of kind of the family and where she comes from, they're not religious. She got involved with that church through an old roommate from college that was very, very active in the church and I think brought her into it.
- [28:24]
A
I'm curious because. And maybe you discovered more. Like, what was she like in high school? Was she. Were there people that were like, oh, I remember she made up this weird lie at a slumber party. Like, what makes somebody become Scamanda?
- [28:40]
B
Yes. So we have a little bit more of that in the documentary. Meeting some of the older friends or people in her past. And it seemed like it was very much, you know, white lies for no reason or why. Why the need to maybe exaggerate something or. Or not, you know, those, like, small things like that.
- [28:59]
A
Yeah. I find that just so fascinating. And then you put an element of a, you know, a little bit of fame with it.
- [29:06]
B
Right. You get that integrity. So I do think that social media.
- [29:10]
A
And then.
- [29:10]
B
Right.
- [29:11]
A
You know, and then the sympathy and then these. Then, oh, now the lie is too far for me to turn back.
- [29:21]
B
Well, I think that's what she thought. Right. I always laugh about that because it's like, well, is it really too far to turn back? Because you don't have to keep asking for thousands of thousands of dollars or you're going to die. Right. You don't.
- [29:34]
A
And that's what she was doing. Like GoFundMes or what was she?
- [29:36]
B
No, she was not GoFundMe. She had her own website. So GoFundMe wasn't. I don't know if it was a thing. Then she didn't have that. So her brothers, she enlisted her family. Her brother's built her a website, a Support Amanda website. And that's where people donated. But they both donated there. So if they were out of town or they were from wherever they could, and then through the church or just directly to her. And that's where people get. You know, they're always like, oh, gosh, you didn't really raise that much money for all this trouble. Well, that was just what they could charge via what they would consider wire fraud via the Internet. She got plenty more, a couple hundred thousand, if not more, that I tracked just from like, so. And so did a fundraiser and handed over $5,800. So when she raised money, like, this is what I'm saying, okay, it's snowballed. Then you make Christmas ornaments that you're selling for $25 a piece. That's a leave on it that are.
- [30:34]
A
Worth, you know, a dollar.
- [30:35]
B
Well, but she's making them saying, can you buy these for. I need to get this next treatment? You know, you could just make them and hand them out if you want attention. Right. But the. The idea it was always for money, and that's. That.
- [30:47]
A
That's where it became criminal. Like, if she had just lied about it and been a weirdo lying about it, then. Then it's not really criminal.
- [30:56]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [30:56]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:58]
B
I mean, that's what. That's what it comes down to. And. And, you know, the. They use cancer for everything. And. And, you know, in the court cases for bankruptcy, because they declared bankruptcy, as we talked about it in the podcast, first thing they said was, oh, my wife has terminal cancer. And we've spent so much. Like, that's why we have bankruptcy. And then the bankruptcy, it's 160 to 180,000. There was not one medical debt. There was nothing in there. So they would make appointments. We had recordings that bankruptcy court, they have public information. You can get some copies when they testify about the initial debt. And, you know, they talk all about, oh, I can't come on this day. We're here, judge, but my wife has a bone marrow transplant on the date you would like us to be here so we can come back. We can't come to court. Like, what's that? That's not a snowball at any time.
- [31:58]
A
When you started, did you always think the husband knew? Did you not think the husband knew? Do you think you discovered halfway through, what is your opinion, the husband's involvement?
- [32:07]
B
My opinion, yes. He absolutely knew from the be.
- [32:10]
A
From the first moment.
- [32:11]
B
Yeah.
- [32:12]
A
So they thought of it together.
- [32:16]
B
Yeah. I think it's like a perfect storm, you know, where that attention stuff was something she dealt with prior, is a kind of her way of being. Getting attention and doing whatever it is, being sick about other things. And then I think this presented itself and. Yeah, because Corey handed in to the courts for. For the child custody case, his income. Right. His pay stubs. 7 to 8 years of pay stubs. Right. And when Alita had me go through stuff probably towards a little. Towards the, I don't know, four or five years in, I finally said, let me go through all these pay stubs and stuff. This is crazy. Like, you know how that. Cause he would get a medical hardship, a reduction for childcare costs, and she was paying him for a while.
- [33:03]
A
So she was paying child support, Alita?
- [33:05]
B
Yeah, for a little bit. And then when they, you know, he would submit his. His pay stubs, he would get. The judge gave him a medical hardship because he claimed, you know, five or six thousand dollars a month in medical expenses and he submitted bills. Right. So Alita subpoenaed eight years of pay stubs after, like when we. When I figured this out because I looked at the stubs and the amounts that were taken up for taxes were more than they should be for the amount he was making. So what they found when she got the subpoena back with all the documents from each of the places he worked, the three places over time, they were all fake. He submitted eight years of fake pay stubs so that he would pay less. He would show a lesser income. It's tens of thousands of dollars.
- [33:56]
A
So he like photocopied it for what was he doing?
- [33:58]
B
Yeah, yeah. They're completely different. They don't even match the real of his real job.
- [34:04]
A
And so then, so that when you. When.
- [34:07]
B
If someone says, well, you sure he knew for me.
- [34:09]
A
So did she have it? You said she started it. Like, did she do it in between pregnancies or when.
- [34:16]
B
So she was. She was diagnosed in 2012. Before diagnosis. Yeah, before she was. Before the first child.
- [34:23]
A
Okay.
- [34:24]
B
And that was the first child and that. The miracle baby.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah, the mirror. And it was a miracle because I misspoke.
- [34:29]
B
Sorry. She gave birth.
- [34:31]
A
Okay.
- [34:32]
B
And then that's when they noticed it. To the first child. The second child's the miracle baby.
- [34:36]
A
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- [37:16]
B
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- [37:46]
A
And that's where I remember a couple of these close, like church friends were like, wait, how the hell did you get pregnant? You're like, you're like stage four.
- [37:55]
B
Yeah. At stage four. Not only that, she posted on her blog, this one's a funny. Some things I can laugh about at the time. I know people have been through hell with this, but. Yeah, you know, she posted. I'm stage four and I have an iud, but somehow I am pregnant with my miracle child, my second child.
- [38:17]
A
And then where.
- [38:18]
B
And then baby was late. So there you go. So it's.
- [38:22]
A
And where was the. So the daughter was kind of living with them because they were fighting to have custody. And why do you think they were so determined to have custody of that daughter and punish Alida like that? Like, what was the purpose of that?
- [38:37]
B
Do you think it was? For me, I think it was twofold. It's. I want what you have, and this is my family, and I'm gonna take this over, you know? Cause she would crush anything in her path.
- [38:50]
A
Scamanda Amanda.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah. So this was important for her to have this perfect family and for her to be this perfect mom and perfect family life. And with that came. They don't have to pay child support if they have custody. Alita has to pay them.
- [39:08]
A
Oh, yeah. And what did he do for a living, Corey?
- [39:14]
B
Fire sprinkler sales and stuff? No, he did well. He did well. He always worked during all this.
- [39:20]
A
So and so what is your opinion or what did you find out of, like, what was the day. Like, did she ever admit to the day that she just decided to say, I'm sharing some really bad news. Was she blogging prior to the cancer stuff? And then one day her entry was, I went to the doctor and I'm scared.
- [39:44]
B
No. It started with, as many of you may know or heard, they weren't sure what was wrong with me, but now I know. And basically, once I gave birth, this is what they found out. My numbers were off. My da, da, da. They ran some tests, and I have Hodgkin's lymphoma. And so I will, you know, I will need to start treatment. And so. And, you know, then it was the first post were all like, oh, I got all these gift baskets. Oh, look, everybody's giving me all this stuff. So.
- [40:12]
A
And then you think that she just loved the attention. She couldn't stop the. Stop with the lie then, because she liked it. And.
- [40:23]
B
Well, I think, you know, there's, you know, obviously factitious disorder or Munchausen, where it's the attention and all that. And I do think that's. That's how things start possibly with her. But then the additional aspect was because it was fairly quickly that it turned to the need for money. Not to mention. And this is. She had Kaiser through her Husband's work. Like, she had insurance. So the fact that she was going to all these places, supposedly, and not Stanford or not UC San Francisco, which are in her backyard.
- [40:57]
A
So she was going to New York.
- [40:59]
B
To New York, which involved everybody paying.
- [41:01]
A
For it, so she could have a.
- [41:02]
B
Fun New York trip or whatever. She went eight times. Eight times.
- [41:06]
A
And she did go south.
- [41:07]
B
So that's one hell of a snowball. You know, like, you can't stop. And that came up in my court case, and I think, you know, we talked about it in the podcast.
- [41:16]
A
So then she comes after you.
- [41:18]
B
Yeah.
- [41:19]
A
And tries to, like, sue you or.
- [41:21]
B
What did she do for civil harassment? Trying to get a restraining order. Yeah. And that was. This was a. You know, she had. She knew about the investigation.
- [41:30]
A
Why are these scammer, grifter types, like Dirty John and stuff, so good with that? Like, they, like, they're. They. They. They do the legal abuse. Like, how do they even.
- [41:41]
B
No, like, I think that. That she was really kind of backed in a corner. I think, in her mind, like, this has got. Because she had moved on to the new. She was. Became principal, which as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, hell no. Like, I called.
- [41:54]
A
Did she have a teaching degree?
- [41:57]
B
Yes. Yeah. So she has. She has a bachelor's. Yes.
- [42:01]
A
Okay.
- [42:01]
B
Yeah. And then I believe now, many years later, I think she also did an online, like, for a master's.
- [42:07]
A
Okay. And then you found out she was teaching at a principal at a small Christian school, and she was saying, the cancer there, too.
- [42:17]
B
Yeah, the cancer was in remission when she started.
- [42:19]
A
Okay.
- [42:20]
B
And then. And again, talking with all these people, it breaks my heart. There was a teacher's aide, Ms. Cindy, who had her cancer reoccur. And so the school really got behind this woman, and they did fundraisers for her, and she joined in. Right. As Ms. Cindy was getting all that attention, Amanda, all of a sudden, her cancer came back. Her cancer came back, and they gave her more than half of the money raised because they said, oh, she has kids. Ms. Cindy doesn't have kids. They felt so bad that their principal and she willingly, like, yes. Oh, great. Thank you. Took thousands of dollars.
- [42:59]
A
And did her parents believe that she had cancer?
- [43:02]
B
Yes. Yeah, I do believe the family. At least here's what I know. When the raid happened on her house in September of 2016. So there's two times that I reached out. There's an email attached to the website that said if you have any questions. Email, which was one of the brothers. So that's what I Did. I emailed and I said, here's who I am. Here's the show I work on. I have these questions about how the money is handled. There's, you know, you must know that there's an investigation going on. I didn't know if they knew or not, but I said there's an investigation. Here's a list of questions. I want to know about how this money gets to Amanda. I never heard back. The raid happened a few months later. I sent a second one with a follow up.
- [43:49]
A
The raid. Explain the raid.
- [43:50]
B
The raid was the federal agents went to her home at six in the morning. Six in the morning with a battering ram and a warrant. It was wild.
- [44:01]
A
And what, like got computers and stuff?
- [44:03]
B
Computer, anything, metal equipment, whatever they could take out. You, you know, I watched. They were taking stuff out, but yeah, I guess documents, all kinds of stuff. Yeah.
- [44:12]
A
Wow.
- [44:13]
B
So it's pretty, pretty serious. That's why I don't think people realize it was. They had a federal grand jury that took place, which, you know, and then many people had to testify.
- [44:25]
A
Did you have to pay for an attorney to defend yourself?
- [44:29]
B
Via my work, yes. So, yes, there was a very expensive court case because it became a First Amendment issue because I'm a member of the press. And so I don't think she realized that. But by asking for a restraining order and the way it was done, I was in Los Angeles and this was up in San Jose. And they served, they put papers in my mailbox. They never served me on a holiday weekend. And I opened up, I was like, oh, what's this? And so when I called the, the attorneys for where I was working, they were like, oh, you don't have to go, you weren't served. And then by not going that first thing, they sent some rep outside representation and the judge was like, well, she's not here so we're going to issue a temporary restraining order. And they were like, well, wait, she's a member of the prep. Like, this is, you can't do that. And she was like, well, come back in 10 days and we'll talk about it. So they issued a temporary. And then in the 10 days that we were supposed to go up to present who I am, this is what I'm working on. She got sick. Every time I went up, I flew up. Two days of prep, you go to court. She was in the hospital that night. So it got canceled for six months. So I think I did five or six trips up. So that, that adds up. We had to do mediation.
- [45:47]
A
You had no doubt that she was lying, but correct. I think in the beginning, some of these people, probably the people that contacted you on that, you know, Facebook group, it's like, even if you were suspicious, it's like, you look like such an asshole. You know, you're like, I'm 90% sure, but for the 10% that I'm not, like, how could you? Like, like. I had an. An incident I've talked about on the show before where we were in this theater group and I was convinced this girl was like a liar and like off and kind of dangerous. And they were like, you're a jealous bitch. Like you're an awful person. And they promoted her to be in the main group and all of us got kicked out. And you know, like eight years later, she's like the first person in the history of this theater group called the Growlings, that they were like, we need to kick her out because she was so problematic and there were so many things and, you know, I was like, vindicated once again, but nobody cares. Nobody. But I'm like, I told you so. And it's like, but it's hard being that person because it's just like you look like an insensitive, evil bitch. And also it sounded like she was this really appealing personality, like gracious and sweet and thankful and Christian and this and that.
- [47:19]
B
She was likable, every group thing at that church and in the community. And she, if anybody else was diagnosed or like someone said, oh, my sister, my friend, my let me help them. I mean, she would go and like offer her service, counseling these people and giving advice and telling them, don't use that hospital, go. Like, this is. I found this out afterwards. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, she did not care. She was a spokesperson, like I said, being paraded around.
- [47:45]
A
How do you think she chose that particular kind of cancer versus others?
- [47:50]
B
That is very close to what Jamie had, Alita's daughter.
- [47:56]
A
So then she just had. So she already had knowledge of it?
- [47:59]
B
Yeah, to a point. I mean, this Jamie was an 8 year old little girl, so it's a man if it's different. But it was, you know, that. That's. Yeah, that's. That's what she had. So that's my guess, you know, because.
- [48:12]
A
I just wonder like, if you're gonna go make something like this, I mean, it's just gonna.
- [48:16]
B
It's maybe one that's not. As people can walk around and have it and maybe you don't notice it. There's other ones that, you know, people Deteriorate, you know, she was stage four. She was running, you know, marathon.
- [48:28]
A
Yeah. Like, I'm just saying.
- [48:29]
B
I don't know. I mean, that's a terrible.
- [48:31]
A
In doing everybody different, but, like, in doing research, if you're going to do this lie, like, picking one, like, I said that. That, you know, has a lot of remissions, or it can be really dire, but then you can come back from it versus one that's, like, pancreatic or, like. Or long. Like, there's those ones. The minute you hear, you're like, wow, that's going to be a harder challenge than. Oh, like, when people go, well, she has this cancer, but it's like, the best kind you can have or whatever. You know, when people say stuff like that, like, it's the least or it has a very good chance of, you know.
- [49:02]
B
Yeah.
- [49:04]
A
So when. So when this all finally comes down and they do the raid and everything, she's still making excuses.
- [49:12]
B
And she posted that night. I laugh because I was there when they did the raid. And she leaves. Corey leaves with the kids. They leave the investigators in the house. They go off to work or whatever they went off to and basically said, like, lock up when you're done. And so that's what the feds did. They took computers and phones and all of that. I would, you know, it's my understanding, but she must have went and got a phone or I don't know what. But she posted that night a picture, an old picture of her bald, commemorating Hodgkin's lymphoma month or something. Like, she didn't miss a beat. There's choices, right? There's a lot of choices that you can say, federal agents just left my house. Maybe I should, like, stop with the snowball, Right. I should get better.
- [50:05]
A
Did you see the other doc about Grey's Anatomy? The Grey's Anatomy?
- [50:09]
B
No. I read a lot of articles about that, though.
- [50:11]
A
The Grey's Anatomy writer is another one that I could relate to being. I was a writer on a TV show, too, and she did the same thing, created all this. She did more lies than just the cancer. She put herself in a terrorist attack at a temple, and all these things that just were not true. But part of it, in watching that doc, I was like, oh, she's lazy. Like, she got out of work. She made other people do the work. Like, she'd maybe come up with the idea for the script, but then everyone else would have to actually go in the final draft and write it, which is the harder part.
- [50:48]
B
Well, Amanda did that. So she got hired as a teacher and gets hired. English teacher at a different community school, religious school. And within, I would say, a month after the appointments, I'm sick. It's back. It's this, it's that. And when I went to court, we subpoenaed all her human resource records from there. And so by reading through all of that, the teachers were covering for her. They were donating their sick leave and their time so she could get paid during the whole time. So there's that. Right. So that's lazy. That's lazy, yeah.
- [51:26]
A
Like, what is she doing? Just bedrotting and, like, watching TV and, like, just enjoying the time off, you.
- [51:32]
B
Know, curled up at home, I guess. You know, but whatever, you know, but that's so, you know, these are things I found out as I kept digging, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, so she. People donated, not just money. So when people see that figure, you have to step back and go, wow. Like, that's a. That was months. Right. She started there in August, and then they let her go in, like, February.
- [51:55]
A
I also wonder having, like, two young boys where there are times where people were like, we'll waive the baseball fee. We'll waive the karate fee, or, I'll take the kids. So then now you have all these people helping with your babysitting for free.
- [52:08]
B
Yeah. That was one of the things Jessa feels horrible about, because she knows now, you know, she's always the daughter. Yeah.
- [52:14]
A
The older.
- [52:15]
B
And we've talked about that before.
- [52:16]
A
Stepdaughter.
- [52:16]
B
But that was one of the things that really. She had so much guilt about that she. I think she talked about in the podcast that people paid for everything for her and that, you know, that's a tough thing. Yes. Her tennis lessons.
- [52:28]
A
Because her stepmom was struggling. Oh, okay.
- [52:31]
B
Oh, so that's what. There's so much more than that figure. That's what they charged her with.
- [52:37]
A
So was there finally a actual trial.
- [52:39]
B
Or did they just plead? So she first pled not guilty, which is. That's normal. And then she had a change of plea for guilty, and. Yeah. And then that's how they wrap. Because when you federal cases, it's. They're tough to. Not that any. You can take it to court, and plenty of people do, but usually when there's a federal indictment, there's so much. They had so much evidence and so much to present. They. The grand jury and suffered.
- [53:09]
A
Was it federal versus state?
- [53:11]
B
No, just federal. Because it went through the irs, which is a federal agency.
- [53:14]
A
Oh, okay. That's why.
- [53:15]
B
Yeah. Yeah. It went from a state agency in San Jose to federal. Yeah. And it was the first type of case prosecuted. Not a wire fraud that's done all the time, but the. On the. On the grounds that she faked having an illness, that she was basically lying. But the money came in because of those lies. Yeah. It's interesting. It's the first time. So now hopefully. I know for Agent Lee, you know, that was meant a lot for her because she really wanted to set a precedent and the Department of Justice to be like, this isn't okay. And there's now something to kind of work from.
- [53:52]
A
Yeah. Because with the Gypsy Rose case of the Munchausen by proxy and you know, there was a lot of crimes that the mother did before she had her boyfriend murder her. Was, you know, they went and did the make a wish a bunch of times and did all this. And it's just. I just like, did she ever. So now she's still in prison.
- [54:18]
B
Yeah. So she's been moved just recently to. It's still within the federal system, but it's a. I would use the term halfway house, but it's like a re entry program. So it's a facility that she, I guess, goes through more programs there or whatever. And then by the end of this year, the end of 2025, December, she has a date, a release date. So she'll be. Now she's in Riverside, California. So I don't know if it's like, I'm sure eventually in this. This program she'll be out. Like they reintegrate into working somewhere and whatever. But I think even though she did all this up in San Jose, I think what's going to be interesting for the Riverside community is that's where her family's from and many of the victims that donated were friends and family from Riverside. So she will be back with the community. And I guess that's the next step in them all handling, seeing that.
- [55:10]
A
I mean, how does this work? Do people forgive her? Do they. Did she ever apologize, write a letter to anybody since she's been behind bars?
- [55:19]
B
Not that I know of. And she still blames Alita and I. She takes responsibility to a very small point.
- [55:28]
A
And then what does she take responsibility?
- [55:30]
B
Well, she did her change of plea. She spoke at the sentencing and she apologized. It was a lot of. She never said, I don't have cancer and I'm so sorry I did this. She just says, you know, how much it affected her and the things she lost and how she Feels so bad that she did this to you, Jessa, or she never said anything to Alita, ever. And that she destroyed that woman's life for a number of years.
- [55:53]
A
Yeah. It's like you'll never get those childhood years back.
- [55:56]
B
18 months. She lost her daughter and had to be humiliated. Going through supervised visitation and meeting in a parking lot and money and just. Just disgusting. Yeah. And. Yeah, so that's. You know, there's. There's. There was never an apology to her. And.
- [56:15]
A
And I wonder if Alida Eber was like, you know, it's like one of those things like in the movies, like, where there was. There were two girls that applied for the nanny job, you know, and had she chosen the other one?
- [56:27]
B
No, because, you know, like, something like that, very, very part time. It wasn't like, a steady nanny. And Amanda worked part time in a gym, a local gym, where Aleda's sister, like, managed. So that's how they knew her. So it kind of came through the sister like, oh, there's a young girl that works.
- [56:44]
A
Imagine if you're the sister and you're like, oh, God, I feel so bad.
- [56:48]
B
You'll hear from her in the documentary.
- [56:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in doing this, you know, this is such a crazy story, but like we said, you are hearing more about these people lying about things. I remember there was a. You remember There was the GoFundMe story where this couple said they met this homeless former Marine that gave them $10 to get gas, or she was alone. And then they highlighted him, and then he got $130,000. And then he came forward and was like, they took the money.
- [57:23]
B
They took the money.
- [57:23]
A
But in the beginning, all three of them were, like, part of it, and. Which is such a bummer because then you kind of always wonder about these, you know, gofundmes, and it's like, well, and it's hard.
- [57:35]
B
Like, I do think there's two things from this. It's disappointing that we have to think this way. Right. You would hope that all the GoFundMes that go up or the people, you know, and people ask, well, what advice would you give? I said, it's hard because Amanda, like, I would tell people, if they're in your community and you know them and you see it and, you know, like, okay, my money's going to them. But that's what she was. Right.
- [57:55]
A
Yeah.
- [57:56]
B
And that didn't work out so great. Right. So it's really. In this day and age now with AI, I'm afraid to see what's Gonna be in social media because it's too easy to put yourself in a hospital bed or put yourself somewhere else and just.
- [58:09]
A
Oh, yeah, there is a story out right now that this poor woman believed that Brad Pitt was calling her. And the photos are so funny, and she. I don't know how much.
- [58:23]
B
Yeah, those weren't even done well, but imagine if someone that knows how to utilize that stuff better because it's. Yeah. And that's. That's.
- [58:31]
A
So the story was that Brad. She thought Brad Pitt was, like, contacting her and they were having a relationship. And, I mean, I know you'd be like, why would he need money?
- [58:43]
B
Because of his divorce?
- [58:44]
A
Yeah, because of the divorce. Like, and, you know, I just. I think anything, like, just like a dirty john, like, you need a connection, and you want to believe it. You want to believe it, you know? Yeah. And I had a friend, a very, like, attractive friend, and she was like, oh, my God, Russell Crowe just, like, DMed me and, like, saw my. Like, somehow my photo popped up, and she's just like, a normal woman. Like, she's not in the business, and she's attractive. So it's like. It's not, like, unhurt, like, but. And I go, wait, what? And then we looked at it, and we're like, that's just someone, like, fishing for any woman over, like, 45 that. That might actually think that a Russell Crowe, like, it wouldn't be unheard of for this girl to end up dating Russell Crowe. Like, it was just, though. So I'm like, oh, my God. This is happening, like, all the time. And it is. It is really scary. So what happened with the husband? Did he stay loyal to her?
- [59:48]
B
No. Yes and no. This past year, he filed for divorce. 2024. Yeah, beginning of 2024. So they're divorced now, so.
- [60:00]
A
And do you know if anybody brings her sons to visit or anything?
- [60:04]
B
I think that was going on. Yeah. I have. Believe it or not, prisoners contacted me and people that have gotten out of prison because they were. This is funny. I got contacted via someone that was in prison.
- [60:17]
A
Got out with her.
- [60:18]
B
With her. Got out. But they didn't know why she was in there. Cause she's telling all different stories in there. Right. She's not in there for faking cancer, as far as they knew. But something was so off, and they were so put off by what she would say and what was transpiring in there that when they got out, they just googled her. They were like, what is with. Let's see what she's really in here for. And they saw the podcast and they listened and reached out to me. And I've had so many conversations with different prisoners now, some that are still in there because the law.
- [60:47]
A
And what are they saying?
- [60:49]
B
Well, she's just back at it. She's got every kind of disease, you know, you can think of. I have a lung. I have a heart problem. I have this problem. She's. And then court papers were filed on her behalf for an early release. And in it, they detail 24 trips to the emergency room, to the hospital.
- [61:05]
A
In the prison?
- [61:06]
B
Well, no, outside of the. Like, in the prison all the time. And then outside of the prison where. Where other doctors would look at her. And in there, the Department of Justice talked to those doctors and got statements where they said, yeah, we saw her, like, messing with the equipment and, like, holding her breath during tests and doing things to. To screw up the testing because she was trying to say she was so sick. And, you know, I would get these. You can contact them via email back and forth, and I would, you know, wake up sometimes. I'd be like, oh, yeah, she's back at the hospital. She's saying, you know, her lung or something with her lungs, and things that she'd said over time that I've always heard over the years, just not even in prison, but just in general, were all making a. And I asked. I said, well, is she talking about cancer again? And they said, no, not to the main group, but that there was a couple of women that got out, that kept in touch, and they would hear her on the phone saying, oh, my cancer's back. They think I have cancer again. And that kind of thing. But they didn't know for the very. For quite a while in prison why she was in there, because she was telling them it was like, embezzling from a school, you know, very. Like, for what this. I love people that go in and out of prison or they kind of learn why, what makes sense. So she was telling them that she got five years for embezzling $2,000 from a school.
- [62:23]
A
Okay.
- [62:23]
B
You don't. The federal feds aren't gonna put you away for $2,000 for five years. Like, that's a hefty. Yeah. So they knew something wasn't right. They knew from what she was telling them that you're in here for something else. You just don't end up here.
- [62:38]
A
Do you know about the classic Real Housewives of OC story when Vicky Gunvansilden's boyfriend faked cancer?
- [62:48]
B
I do. Cause that was. I Think I want to say, while this was all going on with me, with Scamanda, it was like there was a timeframe that had overlapped. Yeah.
- [62:56]
A
So did you watch it or were you a fan of it or somebody turned on it?
- [63:00]
B
No, I just would read it. You know, I'll read tmz. I was like, oh, my God.
- [63:04]
A
I mean, that was.
- [63:06]
B
That's bold.
- [63:07]
A
The juiciest thing. So Vicki was on the show and she was married to her second husband, but they'd been married a long time, and they got a vow renewal. And then you always get divorced after a vow renewal. And they got divorced. And then she was with this guy who I think she was sort of seeing before she broke up with her second husband. I think they've alluded to that. Anyway, so his name was Brooks and he was just Southern and, like, such a dirty john. And she gets some new teeth and makes them a little cuter for the oc and then he says, my. And I want to think his might have been the Hodgkin.
- [63:45]
B
I think it was Hodgkin's. Yeah.
- [63:46]
A
Yeah. And then he's like, I had this. Can't. It's back. So the reason she says what I recall, that she believed him is that he said he had this prior. And now it's back. And so she's sharing it. She's asking one of the housewives, husband, who was a doctor, Terry about it. And then this girl, Megan King Edmonds, is all just like, I don't believe it. And then it was the whole thing about the HIPAA and the hippo. Hippo rules. And what. You know, did they go to this Hoag Hospital in the OC or not? And she's like, I had all these binders and he would be tired, but I didn't go to the doctor. But, like. And the whole thing was, did she know?
- [64:32]
B
No.
- [64:32]
A
And it's like, it's one of those things that only she knows. Cause she's, you know, lied about it. And then if her castmates are mad at her, they say, you're lying. And then when they make up with her, they're like, she never knew. And I always think she believed it in the very beginning, discovered it, and then was like, holy fuck, we're filming this show.
- [64:55]
B
Yeah. Now what?
- [64:56]
A
Now we just have to keep it going. And he's my boyfriend, and I don't wanna be single, and I don't care that he lied. Like, I think at the time, she just was like, I have to get. And then when it Was exposed. She was like. And then she goes, I just thought, you know, why is everyone being so mean and, like, looking Well, I just thought we'd get casseroles. Like, she literally said, I just thought, yeah, people would give us casseroles and be nice. And, like, she didn't. I really don't think that she's so not self aware that she did not realize that just the idea of, like, lying about something that affects every single.
- [65:31]
B
Family, that should be enough to be like, I'm out of here.
- [65:35]
A
Yeah. And so then they did break up, and then he married someone else, like, in another state. And then she still is like, I hate him. And, you know, and she's very defensive, but it's like, yeah, she'll say, I never knew. I never knew. I believed him. I think she discovered it halfway through.
- [65:55]
B
Because that was the same thing I felt like with Amanda.
- [65:57]
A
Yeah.
- [65:57]
B
Like I said, once I sent these emails and contacted, hey, this is going on time went on. And when my lawsuit came up, she brought those emails in the two emails. But she had said that I sent hundreds of emails. And this was an example of what I sent. She didn't bring the other hundreds because there weren't any. I sent two. But with that, it was forwarded amongst family members, and it was. That was her evidence. But in it, the family's like, who the f is this? And that's it. Like, they didn't. They got these emails, sent it to the parents, sent it to the Amanda. And then at that point, I don't know if it was my family. I think I would have been like, why would they? Who is this person? And is there a federal investigation? Right. Were people at your house? And. Yes, but you would think the wheels would start thinking, wow, you know, we've never been to treatment with her. We never. I guess you want to believe that your family wouldn't do that, right? I don't know. I think that would be enough for me to be like, federal agents. Just don't show up.
- [67:02]
A
Yeah.
- [67:03]
B
Right.
- [67:04]
A
So there was another girl I interviewed. Her podcast is no one should believe me. I think that's what it is. And she had a sister that had Munchausen's and also Munchausen's by proxy with a child. And, you know, lied about having a double miscarriage of twins and, like, lied about pregnancies, which. That's a whole nother thing too. People that lie about pregnant women that lie about pregnancies. And I'm just like, I mean, in you investigating, is there any kind of like, factor that makes someone a more likely candidate to do something like this.
- [67:46]
B
Or I think, you know, there definitely seems to be. When people get caught for this or maybe they look back even with the man. You try and look at the trauma, like where they came from, the trauma, there could be something. I haven't really seen that from the family. I've been contacted by different family members now as well that just had questions for me. They asked if it's okay, would that. Would I talk to them? I'm like, yeah, sure. I nothing to. And. And even they were confused by where this all stemmed because she seemed to.
- [68:17]
A
Have like a stable childhood.
- [68:19]
B
Very much so, yeah.
- [68:20]
A
Well, Dr. Drew Pinsky said. Or no, no, it was Matt Murphy actually, he's a prosecutor, said that serial killers actually, it's that they were like spoiled like, that they're overly given. Whatever they want is something that he has discovered.
- [68:42]
B
Interesting.
- [68:42]
A
It's not like a horrible childhood or being neglected or anything like that. And so, yeah, it's like, I do think, and it sounded like the girl from Grey's Anatomy had a very nice parents and a brother and everything that she lied about. And I think sometimes it's just. You're like a bad seed. You're just. You're like, nothing makes sense. You're just like. All of a sudden you have a couple kids. Did she have siblings?
- [69:09]
B
Yeah, three brothers.
- [69:10]
A
Yeah. Like, you have a couple and they're all like, fine. But right from the start, you know, like, you know.
- [69:17]
B
Yeah, she was the oldest girl.
- [69:19]
A
Okay.
- [69:20]
B
The oldest child and then three brothers. So I think, you know, it seemed like there was a. I don't say a lot of pressure, more so like perfectionism was expected or like, you know, this is our little doll. And she's, you know, she did some pageants. She did some things like that. But like.
- [69:38]
A
But also that attention. That attention actually, like, I want to be a star, but I don't really want to do the work, so how else can I do it? Which is also a lot of Real Housewives and a lot of. And also on Real Housewives, there was this one girl, Kim Zolciak, she lied about cancer, kind of said she had it, and then is like crying at a reunion. And they're like. And Annie Cohen's like, well, did you have.
- [70:01]
B
Well, I thought I did, I thought I did.
- [70:03]
A
I thought I did. And then I didn't. And this other girl, Mia, who she comes from. Like, both of them kind of come from fucked up backgrounds, but this one Mia, she then you know, on one of the seasons, said that she had something wrong with her, but then she really didn't. And it's just like.
- [70:22]
B
I think that's the attention part of it. And that probably started fairly young in high school through college, because on the podcast we had. We talked to some of the people that were in college with her at one point, and they were like, you know, it's weird. She would get us to do the work for her. You know, they would be. She'd be scheduled. Oh, I'm so sick. I don't. She told everyone that she had. Believe it was lupus. So she had this.
- [70:46]
A
She was doing that before.
- [70:48]
B
Yeah. There's different things that. Yes, definitely illnesses or things that would kind of come and go and never. They could never. You know, a lot of her verbiage was they say it's that, but they're not sure. Right. That's. But, yeah. Then that just kept escalating. So I do think it did start with this. This snowball. And she sees, oh, I'm getting out of doing the work I have to do as a. As an RA at college. Like, they're covering my shifts, okay, I'll go on with my life. And I think, you know, she meets Corey and there must been a need for money, because it was. It was pretty fast and hard with needing extra money and all that.
- [71:25]
A
But he has never admitted to anything.
- [71:28]
B
No.
- [71:29]
A
I guess that's one of the things. Just like Vicki and Brooks, we won't really know. You think he knew from the start, but I. In listening to it, I'm like, I think she started it to get his attention. And then he was like, who is this crazy bitch I married? And he was just like, all right, fine, if it's bringing money in and whatever. And then just kind of went along with it, but knew, like, I don't even want to fight with this freak. And now she has two of my kids, and, like, what am I supposed to do?
- [72:01]
B
Well, remember in the podcast.
- [72:03]
A
Yeah.
- [72:03]
B
I had found people that predated her diagnosis, remember? So 2012, she was diagnosed, and we interviewed in the podcast a couple that knew her in 2010.
- [72:16]
A
And what'd they say?
- [72:17]
B
Well, they were told that she had four months to live. Corrie told them that she had four months to live. They were a very wealthy couple that had participated in fundraisers in the community for other members of the community.
- [72:29]
A
Oh, then you're right. Yes. Wow. Wow.
- [72:33]
B
So that happened prior. So then she. I guess as far as Cory's concerned, she got. She Cured that one and moved on to a new one.
- [72:42]
A
So does. So is the wife in the podcast. What's her name? Sorry?
- [72:46]
B
Alita.
- [72:47]
A
Alita, yes, Alita. She is.
- [72:48]
B
She was in the podcast, but in the docuseries.
- [72:49]
A
In the doc, I mean, because I just can't even imagine, like, I just felt so infuriated for her and her struggle. And then you also have to, like, wonder what she's going through, like, how did I marry him? And then he. Then this woman. Like, what did I ever do to deserve this?
- [73:08]
B
Well, you know, and it came out in the podcast. We interviewed the babysitter, Mahasti. That and she'll be in the. In the docu series as well. But in the podcast, Mahasti talked about how when she first met Cory and Amanda to watch the first baby, she was at a daycare. Corey said that, oh, I have an older daughter and it was from a one night stand. They were married for four years. So, you know, he was lying on top of lies mixed in too.
- [73:40]
A
Maybe that was their attraction. You know, the two sociopaths find each other. Would you say they're sociopathic? Yeah, yeah.
- [73:48]
B
I mean, he told people he was a fireman and that he was working shifts and so the families would volunteer.
- [73:52]
A
Oh, so he's super comfortable lying as well.
- [73:55]
B
I think so, yeah.
- [73:56]
A
God, that's amazing.
- [73:57]
B
Well, it's like that perfect, perfect storm. Somehow they found each other.
- [74:01]
A
Now, this is not really her face. Or is it?
- [74:02]
B
Yeah, that is her. Oh, it is, absolutely.
- [74:04]
A
Oh, so she was like real cute.
- [74:06]
B
Yeah, that's her.
- [74:08]
A
Oh, my God. But she doesn't give an interview to you guys. Or does she?
- [74:11]
B
There are bits and pieces you'll hear from Amanda. Yep. Some uncovered stuff that you know from way back and then some current stuff as well.
- [74:20]
A
What if at one point she really does get cancer?
- [74:23]
B
Well, you know, it's. It's funny you say that because when they moved, they moved. Left Northern California, moved to Texas after she got indicted, and they moved there waiting until like she had to plead out and all that.
- [74:34]
A
Just to be away from.
- [74:35]
B
Just to get, I think. Yeah, whatever. And I got contacted really quickly after they moved to Texas, that she was already at hospitals and showing up. They. The person who contacted me, the. The assumption was it was almost like pill shopping or whatever.
- [74:50]
A
Yeah.
- [74:51]
B
But that wasn't the case. She. I was told through random people that she had about. She was complaining about back issues or whatever, like, I don't know, something like 20 something MRIs or CAT scans in.
- [75:03]
A
Like, who pays for all that?
- [75:05]
B
I guess whatever. Insurance. I. I don't know. And I kind of didn't go down that hole as much because I was.
- [75:11]
A
Like, this is just something almost like a weird addiction of just like, I love hospitals, doctors. Like, I can't stop the attention. I get off on it. Like someone who has like a shopping addiction like that Just what is.
- [75:27]
B
If that's accurate and I. I wasn't able to vet it enough to know 100. But if that is like just the exposure to that radiation and that's.
- [75:39]
A
They say. They say don't do that. Yeah.
- [75:42]
B
Yeah. Not like at least dozens of time in a very short. Yes.
- [75:46]
A
Oh, my God, you're right.
- [75:47]
B
Yeah. So. I don't know.
- [75:49]
A
So when does she. So you think she'll get. She is gonna get out pretty soon now.
- [75:52]
B
Yes.
- [75:53]
A
How many times did she do seven years?
- [75:54]
B
No, she got five.
- [75:56]
A
Okay.
- [75:56]
B
She's now at like three and change. And then by the time December rolls around is when she's. When her outdated.
- [76:03]
A
How does she feel about this is the fame? Like, here's her face.
- [76:07]
B
Oh, I don't know.
- [76:09]
A
I wonder, like, I wonder if now there will be a part of her and if you come out. Amanda. Amanda, come on. Because just like the girl from the Grey's Anatomy, I want to know, like, if you. If you do decide to come clean because you've done the time, there's nothing to lose. Right. She could come clean and really say what motivated her. Because the girl in the Grey's Anatomy, she did say finally, she still didn't take full responsibility, but she said she hurt her leg or something a long time before she lied about the cancer. And she was always. Sounded like she just didn't have that many friends or was always, whatever, an outsider a little bit. And for the first time, everybody was really nice to her and gave her all this attention. And then that's when it began. And it was just like she just. But then she didn't take responsible for all the stuff. So, like, that's what I really want to know from someone like her. But maybe they're never mentally well enough to say. But, like, I would love to know, like, why. Yeah.
- [77:15]
B
That she gets whatever help, maybe whatever help she needs to be able to function in society.
- [77:22]
A
Especially because now she's divorcing him. So it's like, I'd love to know the truth. I don't want her to come and then blame it all on him. But, like, I would love to just know. Yeah. But it sounds like if she's still lying to People in prison. She's probably not there yet. Yeah, but you know, people, everyone has a podcast, so it's. Probably have our own. But if you'd like to launch it here, I mean, I would just. I mean, I'm just so curious. And then, you know, and then you. You don't get to. Don't get to be with yourself.
- [77:48]
B
There's a part of me that I'm like all that, like the gobbledygook that's gonna come out of her is to me useless and just.
- [77:54]
A
Right.
- [77:55]
B
Serving. But then as a part of it, it's like. It'd be interesting to hear what's next. No, I get that, but.
- [78:01]
A
Well, thank you so much for coming. This was so great.
- [78:04]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [78:05]
A
Besides watching, besides listening to the podcast, which you did, and then the. The Hulu ABC and Hulu Scamanda, is there anything else that you're working on that you want to talk about or people can follow you or.
- [78:18]
B
Oh, yeah, I'm on Instagram. I don't do much on there, but I keep people apprised of the stuff with Scamanda and some other things. But yeah, I work. I run a TV show called True Crime News, which is been a syndicated show that's on. And yeah, I'm always doing great projects. Oh. At Nancy Muscatello.
- [78:36]
A
Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. This was great. I mean, I loved the podcast. I cannot wait to watch the special. And it's four weeks and you gotta wait each week, which I kind of like.
- [78:47]
B
I kind.
- [78:48]
A
I. I want. I like having something to look forward to and I wish more shows would do that. Like, I mean, I think they're gonna do it, you know, with some. With a white lotus and stuff, like where you. Then you have time to talk about it with other people and stuff. It's like, don't give it to me all at once. I don't want to binge. Like, I want to savor it. But thank you so much. This was great.
- [79:10]
B
Thanks.