Heather McDonald (3:49)

And so when you were there with your young family in the late 90s, and you're living in LA, so were you at all fascinated by the entertainment industry? Because you're on this kind of, like, drier side of it, working in business. Like, were you going to parties? Were you getting. What was that culture shock like?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (4:11)

So I wasn't enamored by it at all, even initially. In 1999, my cousin's firm was acquired by Chase Manhattan bank, now known as JP Morgan. And he asked me if I wanted to get into family wealth management, investment banking. I said, because I love you, thank you for the opportunity you afforded me and the family, but I want to, if I can, may I have your blessing to take a small book of business and join another firm? So In February of 2000, he had previously given me his blessing. I joined GSO Business Management, not as a business management partner, but just as a business manager. Still young. And there became a time in 2000, sometime toward the middle of 2000, where a band called Linkin park was looking for business managers. And so my former partner, Michael Oppenheim, may he rest in peace, he passed away a couple of years ago, and he was my favorite partner and someone whom I absolutely adored and looked up to and, and hurt very much by my later poor choices we'll learn about. But they did. They signed with us, and that was like my crossroad into like A level clients. Prior to that, I had, I would say, like B level Because I was still young in the business, and you have to earn that within the industry.

Heather McDonald (5:31)

Now, I have never had a business manager. You know, my husband and I, we handle our own things. But if I didn't have my husband, I probably would have wanted one, to have one. Because there's just so much that goes into making sure that you set up things right and, you know, pay the taxes right and everything. But hearing that people give this power to people and then they take advantage of them, or they find out they never filed taxes for them or whatever the case might be, it happens a lot. So, like, how does it really work if, back in the day, you were gonna work for me? Is it like, you pay my mortgage, you pay everything. Every check goes to you. And I just. I either can check it, or I can just trust that, hey, can I afford this Porsche? And then you say, yes or no? Or, like, how does it work?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (6:22)

It works just like that, frankly. At least it did when I was in the business. Right. I'm hoping there are stronger internal controls today in the industry. I'm not connected to the industry anymore, so. But what I would recommend to your listeners is there should be dual signatures on checks. Your business manager, as power, had power of attorney or has power of attorney. That's how I eventually started making those poor choices, because I had power of attorney. But had there be stronger. Had there been stronger internal controls, such as, like, a second signatory over a certain threshold, like, over, like, $10,000, you know, the client signs it along with the partner, and now you have safeguards in place. There were no safeguards in place, unfortunately, there were no safeguards in place.

Heather McDonald (7:08)

And, I mean, you're working with traveling musicians that are artists. So, I mean, I'm guessing this is kind of an easy way to start to swipe. So where do you go from being legit and doing everything right to just like, when was the first time you just were like, well, they're not gonna miss this. Like, what was the first indiscretion that you made as their manager?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (7:31)

Yeah, I would say so. In 2001. Like I said earlier when I joined this firm, shortly after a few years go by, three, four years, I become a partner. So now I'm building a really solid book of business. And frankly, I owe it to Linkin Park. Cause I was that client where everyone kept saying how, these guys are amazing. I had a big ego back then. Yes. At the same time, I was humbled to not take credit for an artist's success or even think that I was in the entertainment space because I wasn't.

Heather McDonald (8:02)

Right. You're not booking them at the form, you're just collecting the checks and making sure they get paid on time.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (8:09)

Yeah, we're doing the risk management with insurance, we're doing their tour accounting, their royalty accounting. The bookkeepers are paying their bills and creating and getting collecting income. And ultimately I'm responsible when they go on tour for presenting them with the tour budget. And does that meet their expectation with respect to the profit margin?

Heather McDonald (8:26)

Right.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (8:26)

And if it does, great. If it doesn't, then I need to modify it for them. But I never got enamored to your original question. You asked in the beginning by celebrities. So we represented music clients, film, TV and professional athletes. And to be honest, I viewed it like they put socks and shoes on the same way you and I do.

Heather McDonald (8:44)

Right.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (8:45)

And that's what I think did help me get a lot of the clients because they knew I was not enamored by them. I treated them like I would treat anybody else.

Heather McDonald (8:53)

Right.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (8:54)

I also share with them, you know, I'm not a yes business manager. So if you're going to ask me in your example earlier if you can afford a Porsche, I'm going to say no if you can't. And I'm also going to back it up with evidence to support that. So I was never enamored by it. The crossroad came in my career probably about 10 years into my 20 plus year career. Around 2009, 2010, I was coaching my kids youth sports teams in Agoura Hills and I met this assistant coach and he said, do you want to place a bet? And I said sure, I'll place a bet. I love sports. So I placed a small bet and.

Heather McDonald (9:34)

That bet like on like an NFL game or something?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (9:37)

Yeah, I was a sports bettor.

Heather McDonald (9:38)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (9:39)

So I bet on, I mean I was a degenerate gambler and did.

Heather McDonald (9:43)

Really prior to that you weren't into gambling?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (9:45)

I gambled twice prior to that in like sort of like a binge, but not in moderation. I was not considered a composer.

Heather McDonald (9:53)

So how much were you betting at.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (9:55)

This point in time? When the gentleman assistant coach asked me, that's actually too nice of a comment to call him a gentleman. When this, you know, what I would like to say asked me to place that first bet, it was small bets, it was like $50 to $100. Call it on day one of a seven day week. But by the end of the week it became $50,000 bets or this type of bet. And now I had to Make a decision.

Heather McDonald (10:17)

Because. So with a gambling addiction, it's the high of. Because at one time you did get $50,000.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (10:26)

Rarely. So you're.

Heather McDonald (10:27)

Oh, but so like, so you couldn't limit yourself. Like, you know, when we go gamble at a casino, whatever, it's always like, okay, we took out three to five hundred dollars. When we're done with that, we're done. But obviously with an addiction you can't set the limits. Just like an alcohol addiction where you're like, yeah, I'm not gonna have more than three drinks, you know, so yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (10:49)

So my father left me when I was 4 and he was a gambling addict, a cocaine addict, and made some poor choices. And I never really wanted to be like him. But now as a therapist, I understand that I don't use this as an excuse at all. In fact, I own all the mistakes that I make and I really believe in taking personal accountability. But there's evidence based literature that supports that someone who's experienced childhood type trauma can carry that into adolescence and adulthood. And there's that disease component of addiction. So I believed addiction is both a disease and a choice. So the disease is that it was transmitted, let's say likely from my father to me. The choice became my choice. Right? So I don't blame it on the disease. I blame it on my poor choices when I became addicted to gambling. And so.

Heather McDonald (11:36)

So that was the first thing you became addicted. Now, did your wife know?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (11:40)

So for six years of my gambling run, I gambled literally every day on sports.

Heather McDonald (11:45)

And at that time, is it your own money? Are you starting to dip into the business money, the account, the, the, you know, your clients?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (11:52)

So the first time I took money from Atlantis was. The first time was that moment where I decided, I can take the money from myself. Because now I'm making seven figures a year. We're doing really well. We have this, what you know, the American dream of a beautiful home in Agoura Hills. The kids are, you know, going on vacations. But money never brought me happiness because now I'm starting to gamble and now I'm violating my client's fiduciary responsibility. So I should have taken it from my own bank account rather than, quote, unquote, borrow it or otherwise the truth, stealing it with the intent to do it.

Heather McDonald (12:25)

What was like the first time, and what did you tell yourself the first time you did this, which you knew was wrong? What was the conversation that made you convince yourself to do this?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (12:36)

The conversation in my head using self talk was, I'm just gonna Borrow this from Alanis for this week, and I'm gonna pay her back. It was like 25,000 week one losses, and then I'll pay her back next week. Right, but pay her back next week meant I'm gonna gamble more next week.

Heather McDonald (12:52)

And was it always sports games through a private bookie or what?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (12:56)

Yes, through a bookie. Who was that coach that I mentioned earlier? That for until about. After four years, I realized he was taking advantage of me because a bookie generally collects 10% of your losses plus your loss principal. He was collecting not only that from me, but if I ever won, which was rare, he would take 10% of my winnings. But because the amount of money that I was betting, hundreds of thousands of dollars now a day, no one else would take my bets. So I kind of had to come.

Heather McDonald (13:27)

And how do you even do it? You call up the person, how do you send the money to? The. I don't even know how this works. So, like.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (13:33)

So what happened was now I have power of attorney, right? Yeah. So I would. The sports world is Monday through Sunday on Sunday night. And every night for six years, I can't sleep because I know what I'm doing is outsider.

Heather McDonald (13:46)

And your wife has no clue.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (13:48)

Not only does my wife have no clue, I've shared this with nobody.

Heather McDonald (13:52)

And how were you sleeping at night?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (13:54)

I wasn't. So for six years, I struggled to sleep. I had to sometimes take sleeping aids. Nobody knew. I hid this dark secret from everyone. I still hadn't dealt with my childhood trauma that was suppressed inside. I was living in fear every day. And I was living a double life. So to the outer world, I presented myself as Superman, you know, this conservative business manager wearing a suit every day. And the moment I would get home, I now want to go and just cry, you know, like, how could I do this? Like, I thought I had a moral compass. How could I? Yeah. I have such a great opportunity to provide for my family. Yet here I am as a degenerate gambler. And I hated gambling. But I'm chasing it, because the mindset of a gambler is one of grandiosity.

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Jonathan Todd Schwartz (16:34)

There were, there were and probably still are people in the entertainment community who are doing. Are embezzling money from clients?

Heather McDonald (16:43)

Not just embezzling. I mean the betting part.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (16:44)

Oh, yeah, there's always. There's always gamblers. Yeah, there's many gamblers, but I. I never associated with them because I isolated so that I can keep this secret from everyone. Like, literally nobody knew.

Heather McDonald (16:55)

So you just call the bookie guy and you're like, I'm wiring you 50 grand to bet on this NFL game.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (17:02)

No, it's worse than that. So Sunday night, now I know how much I owe the bookie, okay? Because I lost for all the loss from the previous week Monday through Sunday. So now I really can't sleep.

Heather McDonald (17:11)

You think maybe you weren't making good bets? Well, there's just no way. It's obvious it's gambling. There's no way to know what the team. But I mean, aren't you kind of betting on like, the team because the players, this person, or the odds, or all that stuff?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (17:24)

So it's a good question. So I was. There's no good gambler, for starters. Right. Inevitably, if you continue to gamble, even if it's on one game a day, you're likely going to lose. So let's just take the NFL Sunday, for example. Even though I bet on the NFL, college football, NBA basketball, college baseball, I didn't just bet on one game, let's say the Rams against the Niners and pick the Rams. I'm making this up. I picked not only who I thought was going to cover the spread, I caught, I bet the over under, which is the total scores. I bet teasers, parlays. So I had six, seven bets per game and every game on the board. So there was not a single. So there's no way to win. You can't win that way. And clearly I did not win.

Heather McDonald (18:08)

And so in doing all this, which I'm assuming is also time consuming, you're still paying people's mortgages and stuff for them at the business, but you've taken from Atlantis. Are you taking from other people now, too? But she doesn't know because she's trusted you or how does that work?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (18:26)

So the irony, and I know her song is ironic with Alanis was when she was looking for business managers, she interviewed, let's say half a dozen, including me. The reason she hired me is because I brought visual aids to the meeting to present to her what I will do for her. Here's what a tour budget looks like. Here's what the personal budget looks like. Here's what your portfolio looks like. Even though we're not asset managers managing your portfolio, we're the quarterback that sits with you and directs the asset manager based on your wishes, how to meet your expectations, so on and so forth. So she hired me from that, for that transparency. So now I'm taking from her. Now every month I'm going to her house and I'm showing her those same spreadsheets. Except this time those spreadsheets are not authentic. Right. They're me kind of. Not kind of me kind of altering the Excel spreadsheets and making a PDF out of it for her. And then afraid every time I walk in there that she's going to ask me for a source document that is a bank statement so that she could reconcile on the statement to what I'm presenting to her. And she didn't. And unfortunately, because I wish she did, I would have been caught a lot sooner. Or I wished I had asked for help, but I never had the courage to ask for help.

Heather McDonald (19:41)

So none of the other people working with you knew?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (19:43)

Nobody. Not My former partners, not my employees. Literally nobody, because I didn't want anybody to know.

Heather McDonald (19:49)

And then besides her, how many other clients were you also dipping into?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (19:53)

About four or five more. A total of five. Some say six. I would say five.

Heather McDonald (19:58)

And when does it all come crashing down?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (20:01)

So in 2015. 2000? Yeah, 2015. Early 16. I'm in Tampa Bay. Beyonce is doing her rehearsals at the Raymond James Stadium in Tampa Bay.

Heather McDonald (20:15)

And she's your client?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (20:16)

She's my client for the Lemonade Tour, and I'm responsible for her meeting the profit margins that we talked about earlier, and I get a call from my former partners. At this point in the fourth quarter of 2015, Alanis fired me. And I became really careless. I just told the bookkeeper, give her anything she wants. I'm not even gonna fix anything. I wanna get caught at this point.

Heather McDonald (20:39)

And she fired you because she did realize there was something funny going on or. What did she realize to fire you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (20:45)

What I've been told is when she originally fired me, she fired me because I wasn't giving her the attention I once did. Oh, and that's.

Heather McDonald (20:51)

So she didn't even know that?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (20:53)

Not yet. Okay, not yet. But. And she's not wrong, I didn't give her that attention because, to be honest, there were clients that were more relevant at that time that needed more of my time than, let's say, she did. And no disrespect to her, I think she's incredible. But that's just the truth.

Heather McDonald (21:09)

So that's the way I always say that's the way it is with agents and managers, even if they're just on the creative side, not a financial side. You know, it's like anything else. It's kind of like a boyfriend in the beginning. They're, like, trying to woo you, and they're really into you. And sometimes it is a marriage and you're with them for 30 years, and sometimes after three years, you're like, I need to get a new boyfriend that's gonna be excited about me again. So, yeah, Right?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (21:31)

And, yeah. So here I am in Tampa Bay, and my partners say, Alanis is asking. By the way, Alanis went and hired my cousin's firm. So he left Chase Manhattan Bank. Here's another.

Heather McDonald (21:45)

Did she know you guys were cousins when she went to her house?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (21:47)

I was told she did. So she didn't use my cousin, but she used his partner, Howard. Okay, but I thought that was another ironic thing in this whole journey of mine. And they discovered that 4.6 million of the 7 million I embezzled was from Alanis.

Heather McDonald (22:03)

4.6 million had gotten that high.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:06)

And I never thought it got that high. That's how naive I was.

Heather McDonald (22:08)

You weren't even doing the accounting on yourself.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:10)

No, I was afraid to look. I was afraid to look at. And then when I got the call and they said 4.6, in my mind, I'm like, 4.6. I'm thinking maybe a million. And even though a million is ridiculous.

Heather McDonald (22:19)

Ye.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:20)

So I, of course, still had an ego when I was. So.

Heather McDonald (22:24)

But while you're stealing from your clients, you're still managing to pay all your personal bills and your mortgage and your whatever activities.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:32)

Right? Because I'm not using my own money.

Heather McDonald (22:34)

Right. Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:35)

So we continued. The family, continued to live that lifestyle.

Heather McDonald (22:38)

And how do you get paid from these clients?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:41)

So a lot of clients in business management, you know, they pay us a percentage, like 5% of gross.

Heather McDonald (22:46)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (22:46)

But if you're making. There are certain clients that were making just way too much money. And I would approach them and say, instead of paying me 5% on gross dollars from all earnings, why don't we go to. Let's say the first $10 million will be at 5%, the next 10 million would be at 3.5%, and then thereafter, 1% in a calendar year.

Heather McDonald (23:08)

So you're cut. So you're being great. You're cutting them a deal, but you're also stealing from them.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (23:12)

Not all of them, but yes, some of them, to be fair. No. But yes, a handful of them. I was.

Heather McDonald (23:17)

Yes.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (23:18)

And I was obviously compared to completely wrong.

Heather McDonald (23:20)

So they. So they. So they call you while you're at the Beyonce thing, and they're like, what the. Or what do they say? How do they say it?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (23:27)

What the. But yeah, they said, Jonathan Alanis is asking. She never what this line item is of cash withdrawals for $4.6 million. So I immediately have to. I'm in denial still.

Heather McDonald (23:37)

Right, Right.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (23:39)

By this time, I'm really heavy into cocaine as well.

Heather McDonald (23:42)

Now. How did that start?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (23:43)

That started because I couldn't go live like this anymore. I couldn't live in fear. In year six, I literally can't. I'm having psychosis from sleep deprivation. I'm not being present for my kids. Like, I can't do this anymore.

Heather McDonald (23:58)

But when did you, like, go from someone who. Did you ever. Were you a casual drinker? Like, what was your experience with drug and drinking before you got into gambling?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (24:09)

So in college, I did cocaine maybe once a year when I'd go home to New York, where I'm from, from LA on business trips. Maybe I'd do it once a year. At that point I could do it in moderation. But now I'm having suicidal ideation. I'm really starting to like, think about, like, how am I gonna get through this? I'm gonna inevitably hurt my lovely wife, my children, my mother, who's battling stage four lung cancer at this time, my partners, the employees, the whole entertainment community, the community of Agore Hills. I'm hurting countless people. I don't want to live anymore. And then I was just able to identify reasons to live. But I would start. And I have heart disease. So I would. Now, how I got started on cocaine is that my assistant, I asked her what she did one night and she said, I was out with a girlfriend at a restaurant and this waitress asked her and I if I'm gonna. If I want to do they. If they do cocaine. And she said, we don't. But ultimately they went to the bathroom with this waitress and they did cocaine. I said, this is great. Can you please give me her number? I'd like to start doing cocaine today.

Heather McDonald (25:15)

Is that what you say to your assistant? Or did you just.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (25:17)

No, I surely do.

Heather McDonald (25:18)

You didn't even try to go around it. You're just like, oh, I'd like to get some coke for myself.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (25:22)

We were friends too, and she didn't.

Heather McDonald (25:24)

Think it was anything bad. She's like, oh, sure, yeah. If you want, I'll hook you up. Like casual thinking that you wouldn't get addicted. Thinking like, you just want to have like a fun Saturday night. Over the top once in a blue moon.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (25:36)

That's right. So now I'm doing it 247 and.

Heather McDonald (25:39)

You know, and getting it always from that waitress or other.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (25:41)

Yeah. And it was terrible. Cocaine from what? I didn't know good from bad. So it was terrible. Cocaine filled with chemicals. But I needed that rush. Like, I needed to like numb myself to get away from what the horrific things that I was doing. And so with this heart disease, I would wake up with my sheets soaked at night, in the morning of sweat, sweat, heart racing. And that's why the experts believe I was trying to, you know, hurt myself.

Heather McDonald (26:05)

Yeah. And now in this time with your wife, are you. Is there any infidelity? Are you also doing okay? Tell me about that.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (26:14)

Yes. Unfortunately, part of my Manipur choices was because I was so insecure on the inside from my childhood trauma. But yet presenting myself with high reasonable self esteem deep down inside, I didn't feel good about Myself, and that was even before the gambling, just my entire life. So I'm 55 years old now at this point in time, was like 46 and hadn't dealt with my trauma. And so because of those insecurities and everything I sought out, I didn't seek out, but there were about three. I had like two or three affairs and who were.

Heather McDonald (26:48)

And don't tell me they were their names, but, like, are they other moms? Are they younger women? Like, what kind of women would you. And would they approach you or would you kind of like fish and see who's down to. To cheat?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (27:01)

No, I didn't go searching for who was willing to cheat. But when I would go to Vegas, for example, you know, you had that big shot mentality. You have to buy a table, bottle of liquor, you know, you have. You know, I'm thinking I'm a big shot. And this big shot mentality got me in a lot of trouble. And so women would come over and then now I'm with that woman. Or.

Heather McDonald (27:24)

And were they like one night stands or were they like, they would continue and did you ever catch feelings for some of these women?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (27:32)

They lasted. One lasted almost like six months and we had feelings. She wanted me to leave my wife.

Heather McDonald (27:38)

Did she live near you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (27:40)

She did.

Heather McDonald (27:41)

Was she within the community too? Like, was she like a mom too, or just.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (27:45)

No, no, no. Nobody was married, actually. I'm sorry, this one was married.

Heather McDonald (27:49)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (27:50)

And she said that she. I thought she was in a great relationship, but she said she wouldn't. And again, where's my integrity? Like, you know, like, why would I be with a woman who's married? And so those poor choices continue to mount.

Heather McDonald (28:05)

But, like, where are you, like, sneaking. How are you sneaking around with these people?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (28:09)

Hotels.

Heather McDonald (28:10)

Like, so like, you just go, you're at work, your wife's at the little league, whatever, and then you're like, oh, okay, well, when's there have a thing with, you know, Beyonce's agent? So I'm going to whatever not be home. And then you would get a hotel and meet the woman.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (28:29)

Take nice dinner first. But yes.

Heather McDonald (28:31)

And did anyone ever see you out to dinner with someone else?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (28:35)

No, but the funny story is my ex.

Heather McDonald (28:37)

Because she's your ex now, your wife, Right?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (28:39)

Well, yeah. After all I've done to her and everybody else. We got divorced officially in 2017, but it was. We had Iraqi last several years before that. Yeah, but I was, I was at this woman's house and my wife suspected that I was cheating on her. And so this she hired a private detective to follow me. And ultimately she was away on vacation and she called me. So, hey, where were you last night? So I said, I was at a client meeting. I'm lying. She says, well, that's funny because I. I understand you were at XYZ Place. And so that was the moment that. The infinite relationship.

Heather McDonald (29:20)

And when she called you with that confrontation, I'm just curious, because if I was in that position, was she cool as a cucumber or was she, like, heart beating like, I can't believe I actually have evidence and I'm going to confront my husband?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (29:33)

The latter. Yeah. She was really angry, as she should have been.

Heather McDonald (29:38)

Right. And how old are the kids now at this point?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (29:42)

This point? So this is in. So right now the kids are 31, 29 and 22. So now we're talking about 2000.

Heather McDonald (29:49)

10 years ago.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (29:50)

Yeah, 10 years ago, yeah.

Heather McDonald (29:53)

So she. At this point, she knows you're cheating. Does she know you're doing coke?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (29:58)

No, she knows nothing.

Heather McDonald (29:59)

She doesn't know about the gambling, doesn't know about the stealing. So she just thinks that you guys are having marital issues and you stepped out on her.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (30:05)

Yeah, and I. And I left the house. So I left her in the house. Eventually. We were separated because of all this, and I lived in Westlake Village and rented a house while she stayed in that house until the demise. Until 2015, 2016 happened.

Heather McDonald (30:22)

So you get the call. You get the call, and at this point, you're separated or you're not separated.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (30:26)

Separated.

Heather McDonald (30:27)

You're separated. You're still doing all the coke, but you're still managing to look like you're working for other people.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (30:34)

Yes.

Heather McDonald (30:35)

And so what do you say when they say, where is the 4.7 of Atlantis money? What do you say?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (30:40)

My immediate reaction was I was lying. I said, she invested in the cannabis business. I don't know where I got this, but it just came out of my head. And so they're like, okay, well, she doesn't. She doesn't. She claims you never told her that. I said, well, I get. I'll get her to sign something. I'll fly back tonight. So now I leave Tampa Bay and I fly to la and I'm greeted back at my firm by my partners and now a legal team that they retained. And so I had this genius idea to play poker with my partners. And I said, well, if you guys don't believe me, you know, just give me a lie detector test. And so they said, okay, thank you, we'll consider it.

Heather McDonald (31:16)

And so because you're still saying she wanted to invest in this cannabis company, you're just like, what did you call it? Green Clover. Fun. Like what, did you come up with a name too or.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (31:26)

I wasn't that creative.

Heather McDonald (31:27)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (31:30)

And that's sort of like the whole way through this journey of almost six years gambling every day I have to come up with lies every Sunday night of what I'm going to tell the bank. Like, to your question you asked earlier, it wasn't that I said wire the money. It was, I'm going to use Alanis as an example. Hey, private banker for Atlantis. I need you to deliver $40,000 of cash to me by 2 o' clock tomorrow. And they would ask why? And I'd come up with a story because Alanis is working with a producer in the studio and she wants a discount by paying cash. Like the countless lies that I had to say to the bank was like, it was awful. So that's how I got the money and I paid. The bookie would meet me in the garage in the office building and I would give him, in this example, $40,000 of cash.

Heather McDonald (32:18)

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Jonathan Todd Schwartz (34:27)

And so when I came back and when does.

Heather McDonald (34:30)

When someone who's a bookie knows they have got a whale, they have got someone who has endless amounts of money, who is addicted.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (34:40)

Yes.

Heather McDonald (34:41)

Do they act like they're your best friend? Do they keep coming around or does it ever turn sour and they like, do you ever not pay them on time and they threaten to come kill you? What is that relationship like?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (34:53)

First of all, I believe most people in the entertainment space are phony, okay? And this despite me being completely an awful human being for call it six years. One of the things I was able to do and I still do is like when I got caught, I was seeing an eastern western medicine doctor and once it became public, he called me and he said, I want you to meet me at a house, Jonathan, tomorrow, but I want you to wear a suit. So I go, she's my doctor. So I go to this house and I walk in, I know nobody, I don't even know where the doctor is. And I look outside and there's a funeral going on in this homeowner's backyard. A rabbi is giving a eulogy. I'm like, this must be the wrong address, but I'll trust the doctor. I sit in the last row because I feel uncomfortable. And the doctor walks in. I said, doc, what is this? He goes, jonathan, this is a staged funeral. The person who owns this house is upstairs and he fears death. And he's interested to know what his loved ones would say about him. They think he's dead. Isn't this weird? So, but to my point, now fast forward, we leave and the doctor asked me, he said, jonathan, what's your takeaway from this? I said, let me process this, Doc. So 30, 45 seconds into the processing, I say, here's my takeaway. I said, if I were to die today in the height of my career or prior to getting Caught in the height of my career, I would probably have 6, 700 people at my funeral. Of those 6, 700 people at my funeral, 98% are there at a professional obligation. Today if I pass away, I said to him, maybe 50 people will come to my funeral. But those 50 people, about 100% of them care and love me. And why was that? An important message for me is because today I don't believe in having a quantity circle of friends, but rather a quality circle of friends. And today I set boundaries with people that are healthy for not just my recovery, but for my well being. And in the entertainment space, there's none of that. It's completely phony. And I don't want to generalize the entire entertainment space. But I would say the hardest part about being a professional in that space is sometimes you can get caught up with, like you said earlier, like the party scene. I really didn't get caught up in that. I mean, I did go out to places, but it wasn't really to party. Yeah, it was sort of the schmooze. And I really didn't like the schmooze either. But those are things about the entertainment space I believe still go on today, but I don't know that factually.

Heather McDonald (37:28)

So. Okay, let's dab. So you are saying give me a lie detector test. I swear she wanted to invest in cannabis. I've done nothing wrong. Then what happens?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (37:39)

So now we're kind of reconciling again. This is in like December of 2015. You're reconciling my ex wife.

Heather McDonald (37:48)

Okay, okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (37:49)

So we're starting to socialize again and sleep over at each other's place. And it would have been our 23 year anniversary in May. So now it's like May 7th. And I say, why don't we go up to Santa Barbara and have a vacation, celebrate what would be our 23rd year anniversary. She said, okay. So I get a call from one of my partners. This is like on a Saturday, I.

Heather McDonald (38:12)

Believe, still gambling, still doing coke, the whole. And still cheating.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (38:17)

Not cheating.

Heather McDonald (38:17)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (38:19)

So now I get a call from my partner. He said, you know how you told us that you would take a lie detector test? We want you to come down to Beverly Hills tomorrow and meet a former retired FBI agent polygrapher. I'm like, now, by the way, when I received the call, I'm high on cocaine.

Heather McDonald (38:37)

And how long, how much time has passed before the first time that Alanis people are like, where's the 4.7? And let's do the lie detector test.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (38:45)

Six months. Okay, five, six months.

Heather McDonald (38:47)

And who are you stealing from now?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (38:49)

No. So I'm still. I'm taking from other clients now.

Heather McDonald (38:52)

Yeah, you're taking from other clients. Okay. And the same type of thing. 20,000, 40,000. Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (38:58)

Yes. And so I tell my. So now I have. Now I'm really caught. Now I have to tell my wife the truth. Right? Because they want me to go, leave. We were at a hotel. They want me to leave. And so I hang up the phone and I told her for the first time what I've been doing for.

Heather McDonald (39:19)

How did you tell her? In a nutshell.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (39:21)

I said, babe, have to go down to take a lie detector test tomorrow. I just want you to know that I've been gambling for almost six years, embezzling money from clients, and, you know, I'm sorry for all the pain this is probably causing you. And she was obviously in shock.

Heather McDonald (39:41)

Did you mention the coke then, or no?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (39:43)

Yes. I was doing cocaine in the hotel room. She saw me doing it.

Heather McDonald (39:47)

And was she concerned or was she just like, I thought we were gonna have a chill weekend. Why do you feel like you need coke or like, were you drinking too, and then you didn't hide the lines? And she was like, how often are you doing that? Like, what was her questioning on that?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (39:57)

She didn't really pose that question to me. I mean, I think it was just because I was mostly hiding in the bathroom or when she would go down to the pool, but she saw that I had some with me. Yes.

Heather McDonald (40:07)

Okay. But she ever. Did she want any? Did she?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (40:10)

No, she was. She was pretty. She was a really incredible woman. And I didn't realize that until now, if you will.

Heather McDonald (40:16)

Yeah, right. Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (40:17)

A little too late to realize that.

Heather McDonald (40:19)

So. So she. You tell her all that. Does she cry, scream? Is she. Does she not think it's as serious as it is or what?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (40:27)

So I said to her, listen, it's gonna be okay. Go to the spa, lay out at.

Heather McDonald (40:32)

The pool, that great relaxing massage you're gonna get.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (40:36)

I'm gonna leave in the morning and I'll be back. Okay, so now this is May 8, 2016, because my sober date from all drugs and gambling is May 9, 2016.

Heather McDonald (40:46)

Okay?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (40:47)

So I'm driving an hour and a half from Santa Barbara to Beverly Hills. I'm snorting lines of cocaine for the lie detector test. I'm placing my last bet. I walk into the polygrapher's office with a big ego and shaking from the cocaine. I put my feet up on his desk. I laid back on his chair. And I googled how to beat a lie detector test once I got off that call with my former partner.

Heather McDonald (41:12)

And what does it say?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (41:14)

Whatever it said, I certainly didn't follow the instructions because the one thing that I didn't pay attention to, I'm thinking this whole two hours of establishing some dialogue with the polygrapher and myself between us, that I'm the one establishing a rapport with him. But what I didn't realize, because I must not have paid too much attention to what I googled, that it's his responsibility to build a rapport with me. So I'm thinking I'm winning because I'm like, this guy likes me. We're having this conversation for almost two hours.

Heather McDonald (41:41)

Before he hooks you up.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (41:42)

Before he hooks me up. Then he hooks me up.

Heather McDonald (41:43)

Okay?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (41:44)

And I leave there thinking I beat this thing.

Heather McDonald (41:48)

And the questions are like, what's your name? All that stuff. And then did you steal money? And you say, no, Right?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (41:54)

And with cocaine, you can't beat a lie detector test. You're already shaking from a stain.

Heather McDonald (41:59)

Right. I would think that'd be the worst drug you could take ever before a lie detector test.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (42:03)

And these, these bad choices and bad decisions continued for me. Right. The saga continues. So now I leave the test and I call my ex wife or the wife at my. At my time, this time, and I say, I'm on my way back. Let's. Let's have dinner tonight, blah, blah, blah. I get back to the hotel room, I load the computer, I try and get access to my firm, and I'm denied access. So I know that now, this is that moment. So I call my assistant and she said she has access. So now I call my attorney, who's now the district attorney of la, Nathan Hockman. I said, nathan, how'd I do? He said, jonathan, you failed that test worse than anybody in this polygrapher's career. So now is the first real time that I'm now recognizing that I'm facing 23 years in federal prison.

Heather McDonald (42:54)

And does Nathan, your attorney, say they know you're lying? I'm gonna do what I can to help you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (43:01)

Yes.

Heather McDonald (43:03)

But then you come finally clean to him.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (43:06)

Oh, yeah. So he said, here's what you're gonna do, Jonathan. You're facing 23 years. You need to come to my office tomorrow with your wife. And we need to figure out a strategy. And thankfully, he was able to negotiate a four to six year plea agreement on what could have been a 23 year sentence.

Heather McDonald (43:21)

And how much time between going to his office that next day, after failing the FBI test of the polygraph test and you accepting that you're going to do four to six years, how much time goes by a year?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (43:35)

So this was in May of 16. In May 3, 2017, I was sentenced to six years in federal prison.

Heather McDonald (43:41)

And leading up knowing that you're definitely gonna have to do some time. How do you. I mean, there's like, a comedy about that where, like, Will Ferrell, like, talks to people. Cause he has to go to, like, white collar crime. Did you talk to people of what prisoner you. What jail or prison you might go to and, like, how you would get through those years and keep a relationship with your sons? Like, what did you do leading up to that?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (44:04)

I hired a prison consultant.

Heather McDonald (44:06)

Oh, so you did just like the movie.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (44:07)

Yeah, I hired a prison consultant because, you know, I didn't know anything about prison. Like, am I gonna. My first question was, am I gonna get.

Heather McDonald (44:13)

Yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (44:13)

And also, my younger son was really scared, and he was concerned. So I wanted him to hear what this consultant was saying. And we basically chose that. The facility that I should ask for at sentencing is called Sheridan Federal Prison Camp in Sheridan, Oregon, because it's the only west coast camp that has a residential drug and alcohol program. And I can get a year off my sentence if I complete the program. And so I did after two years up in Sheridan, Oregon. And then I transferred on Conair, which was awful experience where you really have.

Heather McDonald (44:46)

To be, like, in the shackles on a plane with only prisoners.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (44:49)

Prisoners of all security levels. So now I had. It was really scary.

Heather McDonald (44:54)

Yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (44:54)

And I'm vegan, and they're offering bologna sandwiches. And I would maintain my veganism in prison. So I ate a lot of rice and beans, and that was pretty much it. And so now I transferred to Taft at this point, which was a federal prison camp. It was the only private federal prison camp in the country.

Heather McDonald (45:10)

Where is that located?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:11)

It's near Bakersfield.

Heather McDonald (45:12)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:13)

And that's not governed by the Bureau of Prison. So they have, like, their private cos. And that was. I was there for nine months because now Covid.

Heather McDonald (45:21)

And was that significantly better?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:22)

Oh, so much better. I mean, there's no such thing.

Heather McDonald (45:24)

The Oregon one or the Oregon one.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:25)

Oregon was awful. It was dirty. They don't. You know, you're. Yeah, it was just a bad experience. It was a bad experience.

Heather McDonald (45:32)

And so you weren't with, like, white collar criminals in Oregon?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:35)

I was.

Heather McDonald (45:35)

Oh, you were?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (45:36)

Yeah, I was with white collar criminals, and I was with drug dealers, nonviolent. And I got very close with the drug dealers. I got very close with all the inmates. There were about 450 plus inmates on the grounds I led a victim impact program. And at this point, now I've accepted my crime, I'm in prison.

Heather McDonald (45:52)

And like, how often would you talk to and between the time of you failing the test and telling your wife and going to prison, did she file or were you together when you went to prison?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (46:03)

So now I'm going to criminal court for my sentence and family court for my divorce.

Heather McDonald (46:06)

So she did file shortly after.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (46:08)

It was the worst year.

Heather McDonald (46:10)

Did you try to save it or were you like, no, you should just divorce me and be free?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (46:14)

I was being, I was still being disrespectful to her. Like, it was just like, how could you, like, say these things in court when you know I'm gonna be, you know, sentenced to prison? And the truth is today, as I reflect on all the things that I've done, she deserved a lot better than me.

Heather McDonald (46:35)

Yeah, I would think so.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (46:36)

And she's happy today. I made amends when I came home to her.

Heather McDonald (46:41)

Now, did you leave her in financial ruins, like, you didn't have any money? What is she going to do? Did she have a career?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (46:48)

So my brother helped her and my kids out financially. My mother and stepfather helped her out and the kids out financially. The government seized all the assets. There was no money.

Heather McDonald (46:58)

Did they even take, like, her jewelry and purses and things?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (47:00)

No, they were very kind to her. She worked with the government. She sat on the government side during my sentencing, and that was hard to see.

Heather McDonald (47:09)

But she had to give up the house?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (47:11)

No, she let the house foreclose after about three years of my time being away, which I she. Survival mode, you know, she was incredible. She became a Reiki instructor and she. She really stepped up to the plate to help the children as best she could and herself.

Heather McDonald (47:29)

And what was it like in her. In your social circles? Did she have friends that stuck by her or was everyone just like.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (47:35)

No, most people stuck by her. It's not her fault. She didn't know anything about it. And that's why inevitably during this journey, I knew I was going to get caught. And that's one of the main reasons why I never told her or anybody. I didn't want her to be a conspirator. I didn't want her to know anything. And the truth is that most people stood by her.

Heather McDonald (47:52)

And did she ever fly up with the kids when you were in Oregon?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (47:56)

No, Once that we still don't communicate to this day other than when I came home making amends to her on the phone. That's the only conversation I ever had.

Heather McDonald (48:03)

And then how did the kids communicate with you during the. So total, how many years did you do between the two places?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (48:09)

So I did 34 months incarcerated.

Heather McDonald (48:11)

Okay, and during those 34 months, what was your communication with the three sons?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (48:16)

So my younger son and I spoke every week. You get 15 minutes on the phone. My middle son and I did not speak on the phone, nor my older son and I. But they came to visit me once or twice when I was in Taft. Still to this day, nine years and three months sober. My two older boys still don't talk to me. My older son sees me maybe three or four times a year. He calls me Jonathan. I heard him.

Heather McDonald (48:48)

Wait, you said so. Wait, which sons are you talking about?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (48:51)

So my oldest and my middle son, I don't communicate with, but with the exception of my older one who lives in Marina del Rey, he calls me three or four times, and we go and have lunch together.

Heather McDonald (49:01)

Oh, so then you do communicate.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:02)

We do. I'm grateful that we speak three or four times a year.

Heather McDonald (49:05)

Middle one? Nothing.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:06)

Nothing.

Heather McDonald (49:07)

And are the boys close with each other?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:09)

Oh, they're best friends.

Heather McDonald (49:10)

Oh, that's good.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:10)

I'm so blessed to have kids.

Heather McDonald (49:11)

And then the younger one you do.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:12)

Talk to every day? Four or five times a day. Yeah. I mean, the biggest. My biggest hope in life to this day is that my kids will come back in my life because they were my best friends. Like, they were literally my best friends. And then I embarrassed them.

Heather McDonald (49:27)

And what would be like, so when you're in that time in the prison and you're now, you know, getting. You're sober, you're working on recovery, and what. What was the fallout? Maybe part of that, what with the other celebrities and people, like, how much news media was about this? About, like, was your face on tmz? Like, what was happening with it?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (49:52)

Yes, my face was on tmz. I was in a lot of trade magazines, the traditional ones, Variety, how they would report or billboard some of the financial magazines. But I didn't pay attention to any of them. I had my best friend from childhood tracked at a Google alert, and he would call me. I said, mark, I told you, I don't want to know anything anymore. Like, the last thing I want to do is read all the hatred out there, and it's just going to make me feel worse than I already do.

Heather McDonald (50:16)

And did it make other people in your business Pissed because then their clients were going to be a little more on edge, believing that it could happen to them.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (50:26)

Yes. So someone handed me about a few weeks to a month into my incarceration, someone handed me, I think it was Variety or Hollywood Reporter. And in that magazine, there was a story where at this point in time, Johnny Depp was suing his business manager. And there was my face and Johnny Depp's face. And it said, it took a survey of the business managers, and they asked the business managers who should get more time. Johnny Depp's business manager or Jonathan Schwartz, the business manager. And if you think about who was taking it, the census, the sample size was all business managers. They're clearly going to say Jonathan, and probably they should have said it regardless. Jonathan. I deserved a lot more than Johnny Depp's business manager for whatever he did. And so that was the first time I read something in prison where there were still people who really hold a lot of hatred toward me. And they should again, I won't deny that I hurt a lot of people.

Heather McDonald (51:27)

So then you get finally released and you go to, like, a halfway house or what do you. Where do you go right after? Because now you're you. You get released.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (51:37)

And.

Heather McDonald (51:37)

And I mean, do you have any money to your name at this point? No.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (51:41)

Zero.

Heather McDonald (51:41)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (51:42)

So April 16, 2020, I'm released. I need to do 16 months of home confinement with an ankle monitor, which was almost worse than prison because you restricted. I couldn't leave this small little apartment that I had, except for going grocery shopping with permission, going to doctors. So I made sure I saw a lot of doctors so I could at least get out of the studio apartment I was in. And I needed that time to get more humble. I came out with a little bit.

Heather McDonald (52:13)

You still weren't humble after four years of prison.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (52:16)

I came out of prison with ego that was dropped, but not completely dropped.

Heather McDonald (52:21)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (52:23)

I needed to become more humble. I couldn't get a job. That was part of the process of getting more humility, really working the steps again. The 12 steps helped me also become humble more than I was when I. When I left prison and I got a job working at Dunkin Donuts and I was cleaning the countertops and mopping the floors, and I got fired after two months. I wasn't doing a good job doing that. And then I got a job working as an auto salesperson for Lexus of Thousand Oaks. And I didn't realize this, but in California, the Department of Motor Vehicles governs auto salespeople. I know nothing about cars. So what I do know, though, is now immersed into the 12 step program. And I'm practicing the principles of the program, like rigorous honesty and not trying to manipulate people or be dishonest anymore. And when a customer would walk in, I'd say, have you heard of TrueCar? TrueCar is like strategic.

Heather McDonald (53:22)

No, I remember that was one of my first sponsors. Yeah. But truecar, about how to find out what you could.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (53:26)

What are the best price for a lease? If you want a lease, or finance it. So if they said that they saw TrueCar, or even if they didn't, I said, tell my manager you did, because I want. Because I'm looking you in the eyes and I'm telling you I can get you the best price because I could with TrueCar. So now, three months into this four month provisional license to be an auto salesperson, I get a notice that my pending approval from the Department of Motor Vehicles has now been revoked. And you're not allowed to work as an auto salesperson. So I decided I'm going to take this to an administrative hearing on Zoom. This was during COVID and I'll represent myself. And so the judge can see all the rehabilitation I've done. I've never got a disciplinary action. In prison, I led this victim impact program. I helped inmates, I taught accounting in prison. I'm doing everything I can to better myself from the moment I walked into prison. And still to this day, I'll never forget, the judge said, jonathan, while you've really rehabilitated yourself, I'd like to grant you the authority to go back and work as an auto salesperson. This lawyer from the department Motor Vehicles says no. Your Honor, auto salespeople is the number one profession with workers with integrity. The old Jonathan. Can I curse on here?

Heather McDonald (54:50)

Yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (54:50)

The old Jonathan would say, are you effing kidding me? You're saying that. No disrespect to listeners who are auto salespeople, but I can't put them in the bucket of the most integrity filled profession.

Heather McDonald (55:02)

Yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (55:03)

And so I was revoked that license. So for me, this is. I'm going to give you a little 12 step talk. Like, my higher power wanted me to be denied from that. Wanted me to get fired from Dunkin Donuts because he was giving me this message that, you know what, schmuck? It's time for you to go to addiction study school, become a certified addiction and drug counselor. Then I want you to go to grad school to become an LMFT with an emphasis in addiction and trauma and I want you to pay forward what was once given to you, to your brothers and sisters in the program and to me. I make. That's what I am today, and that's what I'm most proud of, is that today I can speak with a level of humility. Today I can be vulnerable. Today I can ask for help. Today I can be emotionally present. I don't live in my past, but I don't forget my past.

Heather McDonald (55:50)

Are there any people from your past, clients, Atlantis, whatever, that you have ever had contact with or you've written a letter to, and they've responded in a negative or positive way?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (56:02)

So when my. Probation. During probation, I wasn't allowed to communicate with or incarceration, home confinement, slash probation, when I was. I was prohibited from speaking to any victims, direct or indirect, or any of my firm partners. And I did communicate with one of the asset managers who worked with a few of the clients I embezzled because I put him in a really bad spot, because he trusted me when I would call him and say, client A needs $25,000 sent to me. And I can only imagine how much he had to deal with as a result of how much I lied to him. And so I reached out to him, this is probably about six months ago, and I made amends to him. And he, to my pleasant surprise, really appreciated that phone call. Probably the best asset manager in the entire entertainment space, bar none. A good, humble man who didn't deserve that. And so, like, I'm blessed that he accepted my amends. To my former partners, I would have. I would have started to make amends to them. But recently, they. They handed me a civil judgment that I don't want to get into now, but it's likely because they think that I'm making money from a book and movie, which I don't have out yet. The good news is I've retained an attorney, and we're gonna beat them at their own game. And so today, I just. I haven't made amends to him. I wanted to make amends to him, but now that they're playing games with me, I'm not gonna make amends to them.

Heather McDonald (57:38)

But none of the celebrity clients, like, none of the singers and people that you represented, that there's been that distance.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (57:47)

Obviously, when you make amends, your sponsor will tell you that you only make amends to people that may not be harmed by you making amends. And my sponsor and I decided that if I were to make amends with Alanis, it would probably cause her more harm than Anything. And to bring that up to her again isn't the right suggestion from my sponsor. And I happen to agree with him.

Heather McDonald (58:11)

So out of the four points, so how much money did she lose out on by being involved with you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:17)

All clients got paid back, including Alanis, 100% in full.

Heather McDonald (58:20)

How did they get paid back?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:21)

They got paid back by my firm and Lloyd's of London as well.

Heather McDonald (58:26)

Oh, okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:26)

So that's why I pay restitution today.

Heather McDonald (58:28)

On that money towards that payment to.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:31)

Lloyds of London and to my former partners.

Heather McDonald (58:33)

Oh, okay. And so now what? First of all, you have tattoos with like names. I'm assuming those are your kids.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:42)

Yes.

Heather McDonald (58:43)

So when did you get those?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:45)

Not in prison when you got out? No, before prison.

Heather McDonald (58:49)

Before prison you were this straight laced guy or. Because you were like caught a hip with your tats and your.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (58:55)

Nobody knew I really had tats. I wore a suit or long sleeve shirt for. I did it about a year before I started gambling. I always there what this art is, is a lot of Jew. It's religious. So it's a Torah scroll.

Heather McDonald (59:08)

Oh, okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:09)

It's is really, you know, the wall.

Heather McDonald (59:11)

Even though if you're a Jew. I thought you weren't supposed to have tattoos.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:14)

You're not. So my rabbi wasn't happy with me.

Heather McDonald (59:16)

Oh, okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:16)

Because in theory we don't. I don't own my physical body.

Heather McDonald (59:20)

Okay.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:21)

Right. So I'm not allowed to desecrate it. But all of this is Jewish tattoos and spiritual sayings. I probably do regret that I did it today. But again, I can't live in my past because a person who's in recovery to live in our past would not be healthy for our mindset.

Heather McDonald (59:39)

Right. So now tell me about like your day to day. So you about this is the place in which you are counselor. Altis. Is that pronouncing it right? Altis Rehab.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:51)

Altus Rehab. So it's in Encino. We have two homes. There's six beds.

Heather McDonald (59:55)

It's like a beautiful house. Looks like a real housewife of Beverly Hills would live there.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (59:58)

Definitely. It's beautiful home. I'm a program director there. I'm a therapist there now. And I'm living like I don't even consider a job. Like I can use my academia in grad school and addiction studies along with my experience to establish instant credibility with the clients that I see in sessions. Because the way addicts minds work, we have a lot of commonality. And even though I make very little money today, I literally am the happiest. I'VE ever been. I live in a small one bedroom apartment. I struggle financially. I go paycheck to paycheck, barely can pay my bills. I get a lot of overdraft fees every month in my bank account. But that's a result of my poor choices. I don't play the victim role. I don't play the woo me party. I mean, the truth is, I own it. And it's something that I've learned to surrender to my higher power and accept that these consequences are a result of my choices.

Heather McDonald (60:56)

And what about your romantic life? What's that like?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (60:59)

Today I'm blessed to have a girl, a woman in my life who she knows everything about me. She's accepted me for who I am. I don't believe in cheating. So when I got home from prison, this woman that I was sort of like engaged to, how did you meet her?

Heather McDonald (61:15)

Did you meet her while you were in prison or you were dating her before you left?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (61:18)

When I was separated in 2015 from my wife, we started dating.

Heather McDonald (61:21)

And she stuck with you all throughout the prison?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (61:23)

No, she didn't. Well, I thought she did, but she didn't. So when I came home, I learned that she cheated on me. And that was a really good lesson for me.

Heather McDonald (61:31)

But you thought during the four years that she was being true to you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (61:36)

I suspected that she wasn't because she wasn't really touchy feely. Like when she came to visit me. Rarely did she come to visit. And on the phone I could hear a guy's voice. And all of the inmates that I hung out with would say, jonathan, you're so naive. She's cheating on you. I'm like, nah, she loves me. Stop, come on. And so it turned out that when I came home, she picked me up. There was no hug. She basically said to me, you're sleeping on the couch and you're not. There's no intimacy. So I kind of knew.

Heather McDonald (62:08)

Right, well, why did she even want to? Why did she even pick you up at all?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (62:10)

She had to pick. Well, she didn't have to, but if she didn't pick me up, I wouldn't have been released because she was the designated person to pick me up. So now I get an apartment after two months living there, and she's not talking to me at all. And I'm wearing an ankle monitor and I have limited movements. I had to remain in the same apartment complex because that was the address for the probation officer. So now I have to get this small one bedroom, this small studio that looks in her two Bedroom apartment and I could see her and her boyfriend for nine months. So now I'm crying every night for nine months. Woo me now. Back then I did the woo me and it was such a great experience for me. Why? Because now I know how it feels to be cheated on. And the last thing I can will do ever again is to cheat on a woman. And because now I know how it feels to be cheated on and know also how it feels to cheat on someone.

Heather McDonald (63:00)

Yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (63:00)

So like I really have beautiful communication with my girlfriend today. She trusts me. I trust her. By the way, I don't expect people in the entertainment space or anybody that are harmed to trust me. If you're going to try to trust me, don't believe the words that you identify as my mouth as someone that manipulates and remembers. Because you're right, that was me. The only way I can earn back your trust is through my actions on a daily basis. If you're interested to observe me and see who I am today, then I think you might consider trusting me again. And when I say trusting me again, just maybe accepting me to come and communicate with you. Have a cup of coffee.

Heather McDonald (63:37)

Okay, I have one last question. Up until the point that the assistant little league coach or whatever came up to you, which was the beginning of the downfall end, you really were a completely truthful person. Like you. That's crazy because I mean, I always kind of wonder when you meet a liar, like when did the lie start? When can that happen? And yours truly was through the addiction.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (64:04)

Yeah. Those six years were the worst six years of my life, including infidelity. I mean, I could sit and laugh about it, for lack of a better word now because the truth is I don't. Like I said, and I'll continue to say, like, I don't live in those paths in the past anymore because I live in the present today. I don't think about tomorrow.

Heather McDonald (64:21)

Where is that? In doing your sentence and getting the lesser time, Were the government or whatever at all interested in who the bookie players were?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (64:35)

No, I wish they were interested because if they were interested, the bookie actually had $7 million and he could have given it all back to them and my sentence would have been maybe a year. And it's not pro recovery behavior today for me to call out who his name is. But they didn't want to go get him because they wanted to focus on me.

Heather McDonald (64:59)

And if you. So there was no benefit of telling. But had you told, would you have thought that maybe that would have put your life at risk? Then or anything.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (65:07)

I wasn't fearful of that. I mean, this guy, he. If I were in his situation, I would have taken care of his kids had he been in prison. And not one time did he offer to give my children or my ex wife money that he knows darn well he obtained illegally. And he should have been the kind person to do that, but he didn't. So again, I don't carry resentments toward anybody.

Heather McDonald (65:35)

Well, like, where is he today? Is he still doing the same thing?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (65:37)

He's still in Oak park, which is next to Agoura Hills.

Heather McDonald (65:40)

Yes, I know.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (65:40)

And I saw him one day and I had to bite my tongue.

Heather McDonald (65:43)

Where'd you see him?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (65:44)

So when my younger son graduated high school, we went to a restaurant in Westlake and my mom and stepfather and all three boys showed up. And actually the woman I'm dating now showed up as well. And I saw him walking in and I know darn well he saw the family. And I had to literally just say, okay, Jonathan, like, this is a test for you from your higher power. Just, you know what? Don't stoop down to his level. Be the mature person you are today. Be emotionally present there for your son and his graduation dinner. And I did. And that probably was the right decision at that time. And if I were to see him again, I'd probably walk away. I don't really get involved in escalating conflict today. I try and live, like a pretty flat lifestyle. I don't have too many ups and downs. Like, I view every challenge as an opportunity today for me to learn and to be a better human being and to help people not make the same mistakes that I made.

Heather McDonald (66:41)

Wow. Well, I really find it fascinating and whatever you do and sharing your story and like, I mean, I do see it like it could be a movie. It's very interesting and juicy and, you know, kind of like a Wolf of Wall street type of a thing. So I hope that if that's what you want, someone will make it happen for you. But in the meantime, for anyone that's listening to this that want to know more about you and the place that you work, where can they find you?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (67:11)

So they could follow me on my Instagram account called Thereal Jonathan Schwartz. And they could Also look up Altus.

Heather McDonald (67:19)

Rehab.Com and it's spelled Altus.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (67:23)

Yes, Altus rehab.com if they need help, we'll happy to help them if they're struggling with mental health or substance use. But if you just want to talk and you have some questions, you could DM me on Instagram. I don't even know if that's the hip word to say in my.

Heather McDonald (67:37)

No, it is. It's called DMing.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (67:38)

DM. You could DM my kids. My youngest son makes fun of me. Cause I try and ask him, how do you do this? How do you do that? He's like that. Enough already. Enough already.

Heather McDonald (67:45)

And also, you were gone for the four years that all of it came. It must have been. You must have come home and been like, what the hell is this?

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (67:52)

This is what I say to him. I said, son, it's like me coming back from planet Mars. I don't understand this.

Heather McDonald (67:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (67:58)

He said, dad, please, enough questions. It's cute, though. It's like cute panther. So anyone who needs help, please have the courage to ask for help. And you could DM me, and I'll do whatever I can to help you. Don't be like me. Have the courage to be vulnerable and ask for help.

Heather McDonald (68:13)

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on. This was great.

Jonathan Todd Schwartz (68:15)

Thank you for having me.