Introducing JUICY CRIMES: The Fiancé, the Fake Cancer, and the Ultimate Scam

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

Episode: Introducing JUICY CRIMES: The Fiancé, the Fake Cancer, and the Ultimate Scam
Date: September 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Heather McDonald introduces her new true crime podcast series, Juicy Crimes, and offers listeners an extended preview of its debut episode. The focus is on a shocking and elaborate "cancer scam" perpetrated by a woman named Rachel, told firsthand by the primary victim and guest: Harry. Over a sprawling 23-year saga of love, deceit, multiple marriages, dramatic lies, and an ultimate betrayal, Harry recounts how his “perfect love story” unraveled into an almost unbelievable con. The episode explores Rachel’s shifting identities, fake illnesses, and emotional manipulations, with Heather probing for the juiciest details and candid insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Infamous Rachel and Her Many Faces

• Rachel's Persona(s): She cycled through presenting herself as a trauma nurse, attorney, helicopter pilot, mother of four, beauty pageant contestant, stripper, and escort to different people in her life (03:02–03:52).
• Versatility in Deceit: “She was a high-level grifter where she could grift different people with different things.” — Harry (03:48).

2. How Harry Met Rachel

• First Meeting: Harry met Rachel (then using the alias Madison) at a strip club in Houston in 2001, initially hiring her as an escort he found online (04:40–05:18).
• Immediate Chemistry: Despite the transactional start, Harry said, “I was captivated because she really, at that time, was stunning, and she presents so well, and I was just enamored by her.” (05:44–05:58)
• Early Relationship: After their first encounter, Rachel offered her real name and number, and they met again without money exchanging hands (06:04–06:39).

3. Rachel’s Web of Marriages and Bigamy

• Multiple Marriages: Within two years of meeting Harry, Rachel married Mark (and later, after a paperwork issue, remarried him), and seven months after that, married another man, Brian, in Michigan—making her a bigamist (08:25–08:55).
• Mark’s Ignorance and Forgiveness: Mark found out about Brian when he answered Rachel’s phone and learned Brian claimed to be her husband too. Surprisingly, Mark ultimately took Rachel back (09:53–11:01).
• Rachel’s Pattern: Rachel maintained her marriage to Mark and continued affairs with other men, leading to family drama and even Mark’s estrangement from his own mother after she witnessed Rachel cheating (12:10–13:04).

4. The Reconnection and Widening Scams

• Harry Reaches Back Out: After his marriage dissolves, he reconnects with Rachel via Facebook in 2012. Rachel claims to have four kids, tells a harrowing story about domestic violence, and soon, a cancer diagnosis (14:47–15:59).
• Manipulative Narratives: “She told me, ‘I lied to Harry about cancer for attention.’” — Harry (31:33)

5. The Cancer Scam and Fabricated Trauma

• Escalation: During the renewed connection in 2012, Rachel begins weaving stories of abuse, a supposed sexual assault producing one of her children, and then a cancer diagnosis discovered only after a beating (16:00–15:59).
• Fabricated Support Cast: Rachel introduced “Laura,” a supposed friend supporting her stories—later revealed to be either a real accomplice or Rachel herself using another voice (20:32–22:09).

6. Harry’s Emotional Vulnerability: Why He Believed

• Introspection and Admission: Heather presses Harry on why he would get involved given Rachel’s outrageous claims and multiple children. Harry reflects on vulnerability:
  “I was just in a spot where I was, I suppose, in love with the idea of being loved or in love.” (19:25)
• Narcissistic Tactics: Heather and Harry discuss the psychological element—Rachel’s ability to mirror Harry’s desires and make him feel uniquely seen and loved (17:09–18:30, 19:25).

7. Unveiling the Other Lies: The Professional and Maternal Facades

• Credibility Gaps: Rachel perpetuated the façade of being a highly accomplished professional. She claimed impressive academic backgrounds and credentials she never had.
  “She barely graduated high school.” — Harry (30:09)
• Harry’s Retrospective Realization: Harry admits he wanted to believe her accomplishments, saying, “I firmly believe that she's a smart woman, but she's sneaky smart and she's evil smart. Yeah, and I fell for that. I wanted to believe.” (30:37)

8. When Reality Returns

• New Relationship Phase: The physical and emotional relationship between Harry and Rachel reignited in August 2021 after twenty years. Rachel continued the charade: “Over dinner, I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, I've known you half of your life… you are an accomplished woman and I'm proud of you.” — Harry (33:12)
• The "Stepdad Fantasy": Harry describes how, after their romantic weekend, he entertained the idea of being her partner and stepping into a family role, despite rarely meeting her children (39:02–39:51).

9. “For Attention, Not Money”: The Ultimate Motive

• No Classic Financial Scam: For much of the story, Rachel did not actively exploit Harry for money; rather, her scams centered on emotional manipulation and gaining attention.
  “So it's really just a scam of mind fuckery.” — Heather (30:52)
• Rachel’s Confession (via message to Mark): “I lied to Harry about cancer for attention.” (31:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bigamy:
  • “Mark says, 'I'm her husband.' In the history of arguments, who's ever won that conversation?” — Heather (10:10)
• On Rachel’s Tactics:
  • “She was a high-level grifter where she could grift different people with different things.” — Harry (03:48)
• On Emotional Manipulation:
  • “In the history of the world, and I learned this from a friend … the only thing that's undefeated is pussy.” — Harry (18:30)
• Heather’s Theory on Manipulators:
  • “I believe there are women … that have the ability, just like men do, to be a chameleon and turn into whatever that person is.” — Heather (17:09)
• On Believing the Lies:
  • “I'm a man of reasonable intellect … I may be an asshole and an idiot … I firmly believe that she's a smart woman, but she's sneaky smart and she's evil smart. Yeah, and I fell for that.” — Harry (30:22–30:37)

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Timeline & Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |-------------|-----------------|--------------| | Rachel’s wild resume, multiple roles | Detailing her invented professional and personal history | 02:02–03:52 | | First meeting with "Madison" (Rachel) | Escort introduction and early chemistry | 04:29–06:39 | | Rachel’s bigamous marriages | Marrying Mark, then Brian, unraveling of bigamy | 08:23–08:55 | | Mark discovers Rachel’s bigamy | Mark and Brian's confrontation | 09:53–11:01 | | Rachel’s manipulation of Mark’s family | Cheating exposed, Mark ostracizes his mother | 12:10–13:04 | | Harry reconnects during marital troubles | Rachel’s first cancer story revealed | 14:47–15:59 | | Fabrication of “Laura” | The fake friend/voice accomplice | 20:32–22:09 | | The emotional toll and why Harry believed | Psychological manipulation and vulnerability | 17:01–19:25 | | Rachel’s fake credentials | Claims of law school, nursing, etc.; Harry’s retrospective | 28:50–30:16 | | Rachel’s true motive | “I lied to Harry about cancer for attention” | 31:33 | | Relationship rekindled in 2021 | Emotional and physical reconnection | 32:22–33:34 | | The scam as emotional manipulation | Not about money, just control/attention | 30:52–31:50 |

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Tone & Language

The conversation is open, confessional, and lively, with Heather’s incisive but humorous take on the red flags and relationship dynamics, and Harry’s self-deprecating, honest admissions about his own blindspots and vulnerabilities. There’s a frankness in both their voices about sex, trust, and emotional manipulation, often delivered with dark humor and candor.

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Conclusion

This excerpt from the first episode of Juicy Crimes, as featured on Juicy Scoop, sets the stage for a deep dive into one of the most elaborate and emotionally convoluted scams involving love, identity, and betrayal. Harry’s candid storytelling and Heather’s relentless, humorous interrogation peel back the layers of deception and vulnerability at play — teasing the full tragicomedy of Rachel’s ultimate con.

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New episodes of Juicy Crimes drop every Wednesday.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, Juicy Scoopers. It's me, Heather here. I am so excited to announce that my true crime podcast, Juicy Crimes, is now live. And I want to give you guys a taste of the first episode. In the debut episode of Juicy Crimes, I dive into an outrageous cancer scam with the victim himself. My guest, Harry takes us on his very deeply personal journey through love, loss, and a betrayal that you won't believe. And he reveals how his perfect love story really just turned into an elaborate con that lasted for over 23 years. So get ready, because episode one of Juicy Crimes starts now. Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. I've got a real juicy one for you. I discovered this podcast. Someone sent it to me. It's called the Rachel Cancer Scam. And as my listeners know, throughout the 10 years of doing Juicy Scoop, I've been extremely interested in grifters, people who fake cancer schemes, people who love bomb Dirty John. I was the first person to interview the person who cracked open, wrote about Dirty John on LA Times. It's something I've always been obsessed with. You guys might remember when I did Serial Dater, about a man who dated several different women that I was just starting to tell my guest about. There's so much to get into this story. Please welcome the host of the Rachel Cancer Scam and the person who was scammed by this Rachel. Harry.

[B]

It's so great to be here. I, you know, what I am. I have this hidden gossip obsession. It's like a, you know, it lives in a little place in my brain that I try to not let out, but, you know, hunting wives and, you know, there are things like my girlfriend got me into hunting wives. And I said, oh, Heather's talking all about it. And now I'm, you know.

[A]

Well, I'm glad to hear that you have a girlfriend.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because this other girlfriend, Rachel, is a story that is so incredible. So I start listening to it, and in the first episode, you say, this is a woman I was involved with over a span of 20 years. And at the tail end of it, which is just in the last few years you were engaged, you thought you had a baby on the way. She told you that she was a helicopter pilot, a trauma nurse, so she can fly the helicopter and save the people. She also was an attorney and all these things and a mother of how many kids? Four of four kids. And I'm going, how a would you ever believe that someone could accomplish all that and have four kids? And she still had a regular job at the airport in San Luis Obispo.

[B]

As A baggage handler and gate agents, by the way. Not a lawyer, not a trauma nurse, not a pilot. Just so I can clarify this so that I don't.

[A]

Yes, let's get into it. We can talk about it all so.

[B]

That I don't look like a complete moron, only a partial moron. With Rachel, with my relationship with Rachel. She was an lvn, which is the level below an rn, and she had become a pilot just privately, had taken some lessons. That was it. But she was a lawyer and a nurse. Those were the two things with me. So she was never a helicopter pilot as I knew it. She was never a trauma nurse. She ran those scams on women that she worked with at the airport. So she was a. A high level grifter where she could grift different people with different things.

[A]

So let's go to the beginning of how you met her.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. So here we have the. It's called the messenger, the Rachel cancer scam. That's the second season. Here is a photo of her. You've blacked out her eyes. And she really was a beauty pageant. Successful in beauty pageants. What pageant was this?

[B]

She was. This was the. One of the Miss Texas USA pageants, maybe the Miss Teen Texas USA pageant, I believe.

[A]

And so she's very attractive. But what I recall from your podcast is you met her when she was a stripper.

[B]

I met her.

[A]

Let her hear the story of how you met.

[B]

You're starting with the worst. I had moved to Las Vegas from New England.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Came out to Vegas. I didn't know anybody.

[A]

Now what year are we talking?

[B]

2001.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I took a business trip to Houston. You know, I was single. I was making a chunk of money, and I didn't know anything.

[A]

What was your career? Can you say or be vague enough about?

[B]

I worked in a. In a field related to the broadcast industry. I have radio in my background. I do voice work. At the time, I was working for communications company.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And you know, I, I didn't know anybody in the West Coast. I had a bunch of money in my pocket and I went to Houston and I found the beauty queen at a strip club. She was actually working as an escort.

[A]

Okay, so you hired her as an escort. And how, how did you hire her as an escort? Are. Are we talking. This means. I mean, Internet was around. Was it through Internet?

[B]

It was through the Internet. So I knew when I got there that that's what I was going to do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I thought, you know What? I'm. I'm 32 years old or 33 years old. I'm single. I'm. I'm having a tough time meeting people, and this is what I'm going to do for an hour of fun.

[A]

Okay, whatever.

[B]

So I met her and immediately I was captivated because she really, at that time, was stunning, and she. She presents so well, and I was just enamored by her.

[A]

So you have your. Your one experience with her and then do you keep in touch? What happens?

[B]

We kept in touch. The name she gave me when she was working as an escort was Madison.

[A]

And when she met you as an escort, did she say, like, I don't do this a lot, or did she give you a girlfriend experience or what?

[B]

She didn't really say much. She said she was new to it. I didn't know anything about the beauty pageant stuff. And when we were done, she said, listen, I had a really nice time. I'm going to give you my phone number. And my name isn't Madison. My name is Rachel. I thought, great. So I ended up seeing her after that without the exchange of any money. It was once as an escort and that was the end of that.

[A]

And how often would you see her since you lived in different places? Because she lived in Houston and you're in Vegas.

[B]

She ended up moving to Los Angeles shortly after I saw her. So I think I saw her once more in Houston and then a few times in Los Angeles.

[A]

And when in Los Angeles in those early years, what did she say she was doing with her life?

[B]

Going to law school.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Studying to become a lawyer, taking classes.

[A]

But in reality, at that time, was she a married mother yet?

[B]

Not yet. She was working at the Silver Rain.

[A]

Oh, the strip joint. Okay. In la.

[B]

I didn't know that, but yes, that's where she was.

[A]

And okay, so then. So you. But you guys, how often are you talking and do you talk on the phone?

[B]

A few times between October of 2001 and maybe over the next year, we would talk on the phone periodically. She came to Vegas a couple times I went to la, and when I was there on business, I'd take her to dinner. We'd visit and spend some time. And then she ended up getting married.

[A]

So you take her to dinner, you guys would have sex, spend the night together, and then, like, kiss her goodbye, no strings attached, nothing like that.

[B]

I'm not gonna disagree with what you said. I don't kiss and tell. I'm just gonna say yes. Yes.

[A]

Okay, so then. Okay, so, Nen, what happens then, where she gets married and starts having kids and you Also get married and have some divorces.

[B]

This is the craziest part of the story. It literally. The nonsense began in a way, here in 2002, she meets a guy that she's working with at the strip joint. They get married. His name is Mark, by the way, Mark is still her husband today.

[A]

Still her husband, okay?

[B]

They realize about six months into the marriage that Mark's divorce hasn't been finalized properly. So they get the divorce finalized properly. The next year, May 27th of 2003, Rachel and Mark go back to Las Vegas, go back to the Bellagio, go back to the marriage office. They get married again. Seven months after that, Rachel goes to Flint, Michigan and marries a guy in Flint, Michigan. So she is a bigamist at that point.

[A]

Who is the Flint, Michigan guy?

[B]

He's a guy, if you're familiar with the story, that was connected to a guy named Bobby. Bobby was a hockey player in Houston, a guy that Rachel had a crush on. He's a part of the story, but Bobby was a friend. A side piece, for lack of a better word, of Rachel's. When Rachel went to see Bobby after she married Mark, Bobby broke up with her. She said, you know what? I've had enough. When she had gone to see Bobby, he introduced her to this guy Brian. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Rachel said, I'm not gonna take this breakup lying down. She went back to the bar to meet Bobby's friend, struck up a relationship, and two months later, she was married to him.

[A]

So to get back at Bobby the hockey player, she's like, I'm gonna not only fuck your best friend, I'm gonna marry him too.

[B]

That's right. And by the way, I'm still married to Mark, who I just marri.

[A]

What does Mark think's happening during all this? He doesn't have any suspicions.

[B]

She disappears from Mark. Mark calls her phone one day. His own admission is 20 times. Brian answers the phone. Mark says, who's this? Brian says, I'm her husband. Mark says, I'm her husband. In the history of arguments, who's ever won that conversation?

[A]

And during this time, are you not in contact with her?

[B]

Correct. I think I was already out of the situation.

[A]

Okay, so you're living your life, and you do get married at some point. Right?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Twice. Right.

[B]

A couple years later. That's correct.

[A]

Okay. And so you have two marriages, two divorces, no kids.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And you're all in Vegas this whole time.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, so let's go back to what's really Going on in her life. So how does, how does she. Who does she end up divorcing and what's going on? She's married to two people.

[B]

It took Brian three years in Flint to divorce her. And the only reason it took him that long is Rachel refused service. So he was trying to divorce her. Trying and trying to serve her. And finally the judge said, we're gonna grant you a divorce with her in absentia.

[A]

Okay, so then she's back with Mark and he doesn't care that she was fucking somebody else.

[B]

You know, I don't know. That's a really good question. And, and. Son of a bitch. Shame on me for. For not saying. Mark, what the fuck? Yeah, why? You know what I mean? How did you. Like if my wife ran out.

[A]

I mean, I just have to say, like, what I don't. Like I said, I've listened to a lot of it. I follow you on social media. Have we seen what Mark looks like or he stands on it. And is he like a decent looking dude?

[B]

Decent looking guy? He's got one of those little Abe Lincoln things.

[A]

He's, you know, what was his career?

[B]

He worked as a sound and security installer. So he's a pretty bright guy. He's a tech guy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

By all accounts, a good husband.

[A]

And so when you find out that your wife had another husband in a different place, but then you take her back. Does someone like Mark ever share with his mother that her daughter in law is a hoe? Like when do you, do you share any of this? And how would anybody ever embrace her at another family function knowing that she pulled this? Even if your son takes her back?

[B]

You haven't even gotten to this part in the podcast yet, Heather.

[A]

Well, it bounced around, but yes, go ahead.

[B]

In 2012, Mark starts working up and down the coast, up to San Francisco, down to the Malibu, and Mark's mother is living with them. Rachel ends up bringing another guy named Mark home into that home where Mark's mother is. We're just friends. We're just friends. One night, in the middle of the night, there are noises upstairs. Mark's mother realizes she's screwing this guy. I'm in their house, like, what is what? So Mark's mother says to Mark, I can't be part of this. I gotta go. And Rachel, you know, the enemy of the narcissist is the truth. So Rachel had Mark ostracize Mark's mother from the family. So for like 10 years, Mark didn't talk to his mother.

[A]

But why is Mark so okay with her being a serial cheater.

[B]

You know, it's a great question. I've asked him a million questions. He's been on the podcast twice. I talk to him several times a week, too.

[A]

I mean, when he's up and down the coast, is he at least, like, getting love elsewhere? And maybe that's why he doesn't care that much. Did they have, like, an unconventional thing?

[B]

They had four kids, and I think he just loved her and wanted to believe what he wanted to believe. Shame on, you know, the same thing you'd say to me. Shame on you for not seeing it or dealing with it for him. I don't know why. And it was there. It wasn't just one guy. It was the marriage to the other, to Brian, this guy whose name is mark. Also, in 2012, there was another guy at that very same time that Rachel told the same story she told to me, which was, I'm pregnant and I have cancer that she was working with at the bank. There were a group of guys in 2012 that she ran scams on.

[A]

Okay, so let's just. Because this is where I kind of just for my purposes, need to just keep a linear, because I find it very confusing. So now you're not in touch with her. You don't follow each other on anything because it's like, mid 2000s. And then she gets back with Mark, has kids. Do they have money? Do they live in a decent house? Like, they're not, like, struggling.

[B]

They're not, like, yeah, they made a decent living. And honestly, they were never estranged. So once they were Married officially in 2003 in Las Vegas, they never divorced again. Even to this day, they're still married.

[A]

Okay, so she's having these kids.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When do you connect with her again?

[B]

Around 2012.

[A]

And how does that happen?

[B]

I reach out to her. My marriage at the time is falling apart.

[A]

I found out marriage number two.

[B]

Marriage number one.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[B]

I find out that my wife has been unfaithful, and I reach out to her.

[A]

And how did you reach out to her? She still had the same number.

[B]

I found her on social.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Facebook. I thank you. And hey, great to see you. Great to see you. We start talking, and I said, I'd love to reconnect again. And she said to me, what are you looking for? And I said, I don't know. I said, maybe happiness. I was just unhappy. And then she told me, I've got a couple things to tell you, to update you on my life. Number one, I have four children. Number two, daughter Number two is the product of an essay, a rather violent one. And I have full custody of the kids because Mark has been beating me up and had beaten me up. And then fast forward six, eight months, she suffers a really bad beating. And when they open her up, she tells me that they found cancer in her, and now she's got cancer.

[A]

Okay, so let's go.

[B]

That's where that started.

[A]

So let's go back a little bit. So when she Sundays, I have four kids, all with Mark, but number two was with someone else that came. And what was it? Someone she knew or she said, somebody in a bar. Okay. And he was okay with that. She's pregnant. She's gonna keep the baby. Or she. Whatever. Okay. So these kids, when you start talking to her in 2012, are ranging what age?

[B]

At that point, they were 2 to maybe 7 or something like that. 8.

[A]

And at this point, why would you want to get involved with a woman that has four kids and an abusive husband? To be ex husband. To be like, was she still looking that good in her Facebook posts that you were like, I don't care that you have four kids. I mean, that's a lot. Hot or not, that's like, who wants to take that? Like, are you seeing yourself as stepdad of the year? Like, when you never been a dad before?

[B]

Is this where I get to phone a friend? The fuck?

[A]

What?

[B]

This was supposed to be fun. This was supposed to be like, hey.

[A]

These are the things. Like, I'm just, like, listening to it as I'm walking my dog, going, I just don't. Like. I want to know. Because I. I believe there are women, I've always said this, that have an ability, just like men do, to kind of be a chameleon and turn into whatever that person is. When you hear about someone who's. When I find out a woman's been married four times or whatever, I'm like, wow, you got four guys to get on a knee and say, you are the greatest thing ever. And I am someone that's like, do they give the greatest blowjobs? Do they have some secret Venus Trap vagina? What the fuck is it? Or is it. They're so, like. I think it's more that they just make you feel like you're the greatest thing. Like, when I talk about a Dirty John type. When I studied that case, I was like, I think a guy comes around and is like, you are the greatest, most beautiful, the funniest, the smartest. And us as women go, finally, someone gets me. Obviously, we should be Together. Because you think I'm this great. Like, if you didn't even come for me, I wouldn't come for you. It's just that you thought I was so amazing that therefore, I love that.

[B]

Heather. In the history of the world, and I learned this from a friend of mine that's 82 and he's never been married. He said to me, young man, in the history of the world, the only thing that's undefeated is pussy. And I thought about it for a minute. I thought, besides it being the most misogynistic thing you could imagine, it's true. There is something in the power that women have to me, Rachel. There was something when I first met her that was so charming and so wonderful and the way she would talk to me. There was something disarming to me about her, and I was in a shitty spot. You said something interesting. You said they mirror you. Narcissists, One of their specialties. And this one is a narcissist. They mirror you. This is what she did to me when I got caught up in the cancer scam. I was just in a spot where I was, I suppose, in love with the idea of being loved or in love.

[A]

I mean, you see yourself as a Captain Sabaho. What are we doing here?

[B]

Yeah. And I've shared my background a little bit with you, and on the podcast, Captain Sabaho is an interesting descriptor. I think that when I found out that she was getting beaten up and she had cancer, my instinct kicked in. It took her three days to try to talk me out of going to deal with Mark.

[A]

So she tells you this, and. Yeah, that's what I was like. Wouldn't your first instinct to be like, why aren't you calling the police? Why aren't you getting a protective order? Do you need an attorney? I'm not gonna risk my life. I'd end up in jail. Like, I'm not gonna beat him up, but, like, he better beat the fuck out of the house. Like, if this is something that you really cared about, why didn't you go that route?

[B]

Honestly, my opinion was, fuck the police. I'll go there and take care of it myself.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I got a background, okay? And I didn't have an issue with it. And that's what I wanted to do. It just infuriated me that he would do that. And to find out.

[A]

And this is all just on the phone. Is she sending you photos of a black guy or anything?

[B]

I think I got a couple of pictures when she was beaten up. And. And by the Way. She invented a friend by the name of Laura who shared part of this story. I would get texts from her and all that when I was investigating the entire story. One of the things that came up was the number for Laura was actually registered to Rachel. I talked to this woman. This was before people were cloning voices. She had someone that was complicit in her storytelling.

[A]

Wait, you think it was a whole other person or you think it was just her doing a voice?

[B]

I think it was a whole nother person. I think she had a friend who she said, will you do me a favor and use my phone and call him and tell him I think she had a partner in crime.

[A]

I think it was just her doing voice. I don't think it's that hard to do a voice. Maybe because I do voices, but I used to break up with guys for friends, and they would listen on three way, and I would be the person breaking up with them. Cause they didn't know what to say. And then I'd be like, you're such an idiot. That guy was so nice. But I'd be like, hi. And I would just do their voice. So I'm like, I think she could just create a voice. I don't know that she. You really think people would. I guess she could lie to them.

[B]

And so here's what I. Here's what I. Tell me what you think Mark knows. Laura. Laura Edwards is her name.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Rachel and Mark work together.

[A]

Oh, so she does exist. Okay.

[B]

She's a person.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Laura Edwards and Rachel work together at Kindercare in Santa Clarita.

[A]

So she was also a daycare provider?

[B]

She did. She had a little daycare. I saw it. She had a license to. Not even, you know, I guess, a daycare provider. Yeah, yeah, that's it. So she worked at one of those places.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so when she says this horrible thing happens in 2012, then are you like now, have you physically gotten together yet since 2002?

[B]

No, I think I saw her.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

A year and a half after. It took time, but I did end up seeing her after that.

[A]

After what?

[B]

After 2012, maybe.

[A]

So the attack. There's a fake attack happened. So then when you see her after that, is it your understanding that now she is free of him and she's a divorced woman.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And she is. Yeah.

[B]

She also had a new guy come into her life that Laura told me about. Hero guy named Bobby. Turns out Bobby was the same guy from the early 2000s that she was obsessed with in Houston.

[A]

The hockey guy.

[B]

She invented him to come back into her life. She ends up marrying her in our story.

[A]

Wait, so Bobby doesn't exist? Bobby does exist, but he doesn't exist in 2012.

[B]

Bobby existed in 2000 and 2001 in Houston as a professional hockey player who ended up breaking up with Rachel.

[A]

So then she tells you, professional hockey player. My ex boyfriend has come back in my life.

[B]

When she told me about Bobby in and I know this is a lot to follow. When she told me about Bobby in 2012, he wasn't Bobby the hockey player. He was a guy that was in the wine business in Paso Robles. Bobby's father owned a law firm, was a lawyer. When Rachel graduated law school, she worked in Bobby's father's law firm. Bobby ended up apparently fathering another child outside of the marriage. And then she killed Bobby off in.

[A]

Her fake inner, fake story. So Bobby never existed because she never went to law school. She never worked at a law firm.

[B]

Bobby was a hockey player in the early 2000s.

[A]

I think she told you that she had this winner of a guy that has money and is of, you know, of a law firm world to make you be jealous and desire her more.

[B]

I think ultimately it was to desire her more. I think she had a storyline. This is no different than a movie script. I think she said, I'm going to develop this character named Bobby, a name from my past, and I'm going to create this new plot line for Bobby. And Bobby was in her life from 2014 to 2017. And Bobby passes away of an overdose.

[A]

Now, during this time, you're still in Vegas. She's in San Luis Obispos now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you're into her, but are you physically seeing her?

[B]

I think I saw her once or twice. I got divorced at that time, and then I ended up getting remarried to someone who I was friends with, who I don't want to say much about that.

[A]

Well, does wife number two. Did she know about Rachel?

[B]

Did not.

[A]

Did she ever suspect that you were talking to somebody else?

[B]

I wasn't talking to Rachel during those two years. I never did that. I never communicated with Rachel during those two years when I married Wife two.

[A]

So then wife number two, how long does that last?

[B]

A couple years. There's infidelity there. None on my side, and it was ugly.

[A]

Every girl in your life has cheated on you?

[B]

Yeah, at least a couple of them have.

[A]

And have you looked into that?

[B]

Heather, I'd like to phone a friend again. How many calls. How many friend calls can I make during this?

[A]

Are These women all a certain type. I mean, you went for someone that was selling her body, that was a stripper. Is that kind of your type of, like a girl that you know is super sexual but will make you convince you that, you know, she's Mary Magdalene and she's going to change her ways because you are that moral high ground and great guy. So you're going to make a whole housewife.

[B]

Listen, moral high in. I'm not some moral high ground. I hired a hooker.

[A]

Right, but I'm saying, in your mind, what, like, is that the trick that these women use? Okay.

[B]

And that, by the way, that's the expression the hookers have. A guy is a trick. Why is he a trick? I'm going to trick him into thinking that I'm into him. I'm into him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So then the other marriage dissolves and then went. And then. And you weren't talking to her during the second marriage?

[B]

I might have gotten a couple messages, but nothing.

[A]

Nothing in person?

[B]

No. And I'll tell you what, now that I think about it, Rachel sent me some pictures during my marriage that I just, like, put away and didn't. I don't think I even responded to. Like, pictures.

[A]

Like, sexy pictures.

[B]

Yeah, sexy. And. And I just quickly like, hey, miss you.

[A]

And it's just like, yeah, okay.

[B]

You know, naked.

[A]

And weren't you scared the wife, like, might lean over and see that?

[B]

I deleted them off my phone. Okay. I'm like, no, I don't want any part of that. I can't be part of that. I. I can't. I can't have that temptation around me. Not because I can't resist it, but I just can't. It's not. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if my. If I saw that my wife was getting naked pictures from a guy, I'd be fit to be tied.

[A]

Okay, so now this is a photo. You covered her eyes, too. But you can see she is attractive. She has pretty blonde hair. She has a good dye job. Extensions or real hair? I don't know. She has a sense of style. And she tells you. She sends this to you and says it's picture day at the law firm. Now, what year is this?

[B]

2017.

[A]

So you think during the time that you're in and out of these two marriages, she has successfully gotten divorced, had another boyfriend who died and is no longer pursuing, Is no longer really a nurse anymore because now she's a lawyer?

[B]

The nurse was a backup. She set up keeping the nursing license just in case I need it. I'm Keeping it active.

[A]

So you must think that this beauty pageant turned stripper turned hooker turned nurse, daycare provider, now lawyer. I mean, when does end mother of four, like, when does she sleep? When she's going. I mean, even Kim Kardashian is still not a lawyer. And she had all the help in the world to pass the bar without going to law school. And she has four kids. How did you think that she was doing this? Was she just the most genius stripper that ever lived?

[B]

Listen, I thought in 2001 when I met her and she said she was going to go to law school and starting to take classes, and the fact that she didn't end up passing the bar until 2015 or 16, I thought that seems to be a reasonable enough time if she's taking her classes online. California is the only state in the country that allows you to take the bar online and then pass it and get your JD and then allows you to do an apprentice program.

[A]

Right. You don't have to go to actual law school.

[B]

There's only one person in the history of that program that's gone through that program and is now a practicing lawyer, by the way. Just. I found that out after the fact. So to me, the accomplishments weren't anything out of the ordinary. She got an LVN license because she went to college. She told me she went to college, said that she had a. Excuse me, a degree in biomathematics.

[A]

So she had a degree in biomathematics after she was doing beauty pageant stuff with Eva Longoria, by the way, was in the All Star pageant. And with that degree, she's like, I would also like to have. I'd also like to be a high class hooker because that looks like fun. And Pretty Woman was my favorite movie.

[B]

I think she left high school and thought, the way I'm gonna make money is I'm gonna capitalize on the fact that I'm beautiful, that I get attention.

[A]

Do you think she ever went to college?

[B]

She never, by the way, she barely graduated high school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, no, she didn't go to college. Didn't go to college.

[A]

But you believed she did have a college degree and she was just doing this to supplement her lifestyle.

[B]

I'm a man of reasonable intellect. I may be an asshole and an idiot or whatever you think I am.

[A]

I don't think you're a bad person. I'm fascinated by the story, obviously, and I do ask the questions people don't ask. So I appreciate your honesty.

[B]

I firmly believe that she's a smart woman, but she's sneaky smart and she's evil smart. Yeah, and I fell for that. I wanted to believe. Listen, I wanted to believe her and I wanted to believe in her.

[A]

So what I don't get is we haven't even gotten to the cancer part. The scam is just being a pathological liar, getting people to, you know, be in her life, believe her, whether they're friends or romantic or whatever, loving the attention of various men and playing them against each other. But at this point, she's not making money off of this. She's not having you send her 5,000amonth or anything like that. So, like, so it's really just a scam of mind fuckery.

[B]

When the scam was exposed, Heather, she sent Mark a message and she was trying to explain her lies, and she said to Mark, I lied to Harry about cancer for attention.

[A]

Okay, so now let's go back to the how the lie happens. So now you think she is practicing lawyer. She is divorced, she has four kids, she lives in San Luis Obispo, and she also works at the airport.

[B]

She was not working. She. She was not working yet physically at the airport. To me, with me, she never worked at the airport until her cancer scan was exposed. I never knew she worked at the airport.

[A]

Okay, so when is the next time that you physically, like, get together romantically?

[B]

August 27, 2021. We meet in Santa Barbara.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's where the whole thing begins.

[A]

Okay. So you have, like, a lovely weekend and chemistry just like it always was.

[B]

Stunning.

[A]

Still very, very attractive. How old is she at that point?

[B]

She's 40 maybe.

[A]

And so. And she. You think she is a divorced mom of 40, practicing attorney, living in San Luis Obispo.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Who drove a few hours down to meet you in Santa Barbara.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And you have a lovely evening or weekend, and at that point you leave Santa Barbara and you're like, this is the woman of my dreams. I'm going to. We're gonna live together. I'm gonna be a stepfather. I'm going to go see when she tries a case in court, like, what in your mind are you thinking your future looks like?

[B]

That night over dinner, I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, I've known you half of your life. I met you when you were 21. And you are an accomplished woman and I'm proud of you. And like Heather, I could do without the laughter. This is where I was. I know.

[A]

I know. I don't. I get why. You know, the thing is, it's so embarrassing when someone Love bombs you. Lies as a grifter, whether it's a friend, whether it's romantic, because you are a good person and you don't lie yourself. So it doesn't occur when people are like, I was so dumb. I can't. So I know. I'm like, laughing, whatever. I'm not. Because it's like, I've interviewed enough people and I've counseled enough people when they are so hard on themselves. And I'm like, but why wouldn't you believe that you were lovable and that this person was this great person and that you deserve this great person? Why would you think that someone who's entering your life is lying about their career? You wouldn't think it. So I'm saying, yeah.

[B]

So I, you know, but I get.

[A]

But, you know, when you add it all up. Yeah, it all. It doesn't make sense. But at the same time, I see where you're coming from.

[B]

Especially at that point on August 27th of 2021, I'm thinking, boy, look at what you've become. You're still very beautiful, and you're sweet. And the way she would talk to me, there was something to me about that. Always. There was something that provided comfort to me.

[A]

And her voice, well, why don't you tell us? So girls can hook some guys? A lot of girls are trying to get a guy. What is the secret?

[B]

Rachel told me something in October when I was getting ready to go to Billy Bush's birthday party, which I talk about in the podcast she had written me, and this is how she hooked me. I think she wrote to me and said, we can no longer keep doing what we're doing. We can't be friends with benefits. You can't fly to Santa Barbara. I can't come to Vegas. I need to see what I'm capable of. And I looked at that like it was an ad. It was like my hold my beer moment. I said, wait a minute. If that's what you're looking for, like a full. A real relationship, like a relationship, why don't we look at doing that? Like, why haven't we ever connected before? There have been periods of time where we were both single between 2012 and.

[A]

Now between Mark, Bobby and Michigan. Flint or what A Flint, Michigan. Okay, go on.

[B]

Yeah, right. God, you are. You are tough. This is like Ted Koppel with tits. Like, what the fuck? I thought this was gonna be fun. Go on the gossip show. It'll be great. It'll be fucking great. Now my. I'm. Thank God. I'm not wearing my apple watch. It would be calling the police. Like, have you fallen? Is there an emergency? Jesus Christ.

[A]

Okay, cool. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So I'm thinking, where was I?

[A]

You said, why don't we have a real relationship?

[B]

Why don't we have a real relationship? You know, she's accomplished, she's a lawyer. Nothing is far fetched like she's got an LVN license that she doesn't use.

[A]

She's Reese Witherspoon and Legally Blonde. Look at that.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's just doing her thing and I thought, boy, she's beautiful and she's smart and she loves me. And so she writes to me before we go to Billy Bush's house and she said, I can't do this. I'm looking to see what I'm capable of these days. I'm ready to be loved and I'm ready to love. And I said, if that's what you're looking for. If you're serious, I'm interested in exploring that with you. Not like, let's get married today, but if that's what you're looking for, maybe this is our time.

[A]

Now at this time, does she even talk about her kids, their activities? Oh, my God, this one is doing this in the house. I mean, a mother of four. It sounds from your podcast that she really didn't and you didn't overly ask.

[B]

I did and I've, I've deliberately kept the children out of it. One of her daughters, a very accomplished, very good softball player. Her oldest daughter, who she is estranged from, Madison, is in school and I think is going to end up being a doctor. Her 14 year old, and this is verified, just graduated college over the spring last year. Real story, true story. It's been in the paper. There was a newspaper.

[A]

Graduated from college.

[B]

Yeah. While in high school, by the way. While in high school. Brilliant. It's on the news.

[A]

I'll send you crazy. Well, I mean, sometimes I'm just like, yeah, sometimes that hype. I mean, I do believe intelligence is somewhat genetic. Not always, but somewhat can be. And I do think there it like not skips a generation or the parents didn't really use their intelligence in the right way and like, and then they like push their kids so much. But that's insane that she has like a genius child. Well, she, when was she even home.

[B]

With them, by the way? In the middle of this podcast, two months ago or three months ago, she calls the local news station in San Luis Obispo and says, my daughter is this genius child that graduated from college at 14 years old, and she's on the fucking news. Rachel is Rachel. And I saw. And I didn't put it on my podcast. I didn't talk about it in social media. And I thought, the nerve of her to know that I'm talking about her every single day. And you're gonna put yourself on the news. Get the fuck outta here.

[A]

Okay, so we gotta get to where this all. Okay, so she doesn't talk that much about the kids, but you're just like, let's try to have a really real relationship. So after that, then how often are you physically seeing each other?

[B]

We saw each other a bunch of. There's a bunch of time between August 27th and really through April of 2022. So August of 21.

[A]

So for like, five, six months, you're seeing each other always in these rendezvous cities, or did you ever go to her house and see her kids and spend the night?

[B]

I wrote to her and called her on November 1st of 2021. I said, I need to talk to you. I flew to Santa Barbara and I sat with her and I said, listen, I want to make a go of this. I want us to be a couple. And she looked at me like I had six heads. Finally, I had to say it three times. Finally, the next day, we agreed to it. We become a couple on November 4, 2021. From that point, we begin communicating every single day. I end up going back and forth to Santa Barbara once or twice, and then I go to Atascadero, which is where she was living a month and change after that.

[A]

So Atascadero, where is that?

[B]

That's in between Paso Robles and San Luis Obispo.

[A]

And do you ever go to her house or you just stay at a hotel?

[B]

I stay at a hotel. I meet the girls once.

[A]

Where?

[B]

Only once. In N Out Burger. Her daughter Madison worked at In N.

[A]

Out in Atascadero, and she's like, did she say, this is my boyfriend Harry?

[B]

Oh, no. What she told. First of all, what she told me was we have to pretend like we're not together. I promised them after Bobby that I would never bring another man into their life.

[A]

All right, juicy scoopers. Thank you for listening to the first half of Juicy Crimes first episode. If you want to find out more about what happened to Harry, click the link in the description to listen to the full episode. New episodes of Juicy Crimes will drop every Wednesday, so subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out.