← Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Justin Bieber’s Coachella, The Comeback’s Dan Bucatinsky & Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle
01:26:35
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- [00:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
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- [00:28]
Heather McDonald
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- [00:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
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- [01:24]
Heather McDonald
Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more. Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.
- [01:37]
Dan Bukatinsky
When you're on the road, when you're
- [01:39]
Heather McDonald
on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales For real life, Mr.
- [01:45]
Dan Bukatinsky
Segment, cereal data and Cereal Sister.
- [01:48]
Heather McDonald
You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid Real Life podcast.
- [01:54]
Dan Bukatinsky
Listen in.
- [01:55]
Heather McDonald
Listen up. Woo woo. Hanna McDonald juicy scoop hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have the best show for you today. You're absolutely going to love it. I know many of you follow me on Instagram and TikTok and you're like Heather, you were at Coachella. How was that? Give us a scoop. Well, I technically did a rage bait video which was my sister Shannon was Coming over because we were gonna record a Juicy Crimes, which, by the way, is every Wednesday. Please subscribe. It's always so good and juicy. And as she was coming over, I looked at this little weird dress I had, and I put together a Coachella outfit. And so I greeted my sister at the door, and she's like, what the hell is this outfit? And then Drake was like, oh, wait, I think it would be really funny if you did, like, a photo shoot like every other Coachella girl. And we posed it. And so we went out just outside my pool and did this thing. And I loved the comments. Now, 94% of you were like, oh, my God, you're never too old for Coachella. You look great. And then the other 6%, the rage baiting worked and they were furious. Like, how dare you wear this outfit? What are you doing? I did not attend. We streamed it. I went out to a fun dinner with Martin Ballard, the interior designer to the stars, who will be on Juicy Scoop as well, in Palm Springs, and went to his beautiful home. I just had a great weekend. We just had so much fun. But I did not actually go. I did not camp. I did not go to Coachella. But we did watch our boy, Justin Bieber, where he was the headliner Saturday night and not a fan of jorts. Never been. The outfit was not the look that I love my Justin Biebs wearing. He basically wore the same thing that he wore every morning when he goes to Vintage Coffee, which is in La Quinta. And everyone knows that he goes there and he loves to get his coffee, which is fine. But I don't think that you should be mad that, you know, other people want to see you at Vintage Coffee. You are Justin Bieber. You can have the coffee delivered to your house. So if you come because you want to be out in the wild, just know that now you're out in the wild, and you better be at a light with your hoodie on. But he is a delight when he goes there. And by the way, go to the local, which is next door in La Quinta, and get the best food of your life. That's. We love to go for brunch, lunch, dinner. Anyway, so he comes out and listen. I was looking forward to. I liked when he wore his underwear and sang about the Yukon and two song. Okay, I like that. I'd never heard the song before. That was the first time I saw it. I've watched it a bunch of times. I like. I like a shirtless Justin. I like seeing a little more of the body. He's 32, so it's okay now to say that. Anyway, no, he never took off his shirt. He kept this outfit on and he played a lot of new songs, all of which I know I will love. But then he got on the laptop and this is where there was some controversy and. And he was looking up himself. And then he would play some songs where he was almost harmonizing with his younger self, which that I thought was really cool. So you would get like a half of a song, like Baby, Baby, like a hit or whatever. But there wasn't any. There was no big stage thing. There was no big dancing. There was no shirts were being removed. The jort stayed on. I kind of was like, I don't know. I could see the controversy, okay. But a lot of people really loved it that he didn't have to do a big stage thing, that it was unique and that it was kind of an artistic thing and it was like a full circle. Being that he's been in the business for 19 years, I thought that was really cool. It's reported that he made $10 million. However, YouTube was the sponsor of this event. So I wonder if this was in collaboration with YouTube. In thinking of this creative way to also utilize YouTube and how great it is. And I love YouTube and I hope you're subscribed to Heather McDonald's juicy scoop and juicy crimes here on YouTube. Please subscribe, share like the whole thing. Leave a comment. So I watched the whole thing from my house, streamed it, and was very happy to just crawl into bed after as many of you did. And I still love Justin. I thought it was unique and different and obviously it's an hour and a half show. He can't play every song. He was smart to do his new stuff, but it was probably, I think, like 15 minutes too long. Scrolling on the Apple computer in his bedroom for the Coachella, I thought it was a little too long, but other than that, it was still good. Then we watched the Masters and just relaxed on Sunday, had a great time. So for me, it was a perfect weekend. I loved it so much. So speaking of Coachella and influencers and all that, there was kind of. There is a juicy little thing going on with Alex Cooper of Color Daddy and Alex Earl, who's like the number one influencer. They joined forces. Well, rather, Alex Cooper kind of took Alex Earl under her wing and it was like, oh, this is really smart. She's not threatened by this new blonde Alex. And she gave her a podcast under her network. Something happened and they ended It. And neither of them really fuck with each other. They don't talk about each other. They don't, you know, do anything together. But there's always like, wow, what happened with that podcast? I have speculated that maybe the podcast, the Art of Podcasting as you will, might just not have been for Alex Earle. She makes so much money as a fashion beauty influencer. That's what people are attracted to. Seeing her get ready with her videos and stuff, maybe talking for an hour and interviewing somebody or whatever that show was, just wasn't for her. And she wasn't willing to put in the work for something that financially wasn't worth it. That's one theory. And. But recently, Alex Earle started to repost negative videos about Alex Cooper and, like, comments that were negative. And it all got back to Alex Cooper. So today she spoke of call her daddy Alex Cooper's like, bring some receipts. Tell me, stop hinting. If you really have a problem with me, put it out there, because I am sick of this shit. And I would just like. So I thought that was pretty juicy. And then, of course, Dave Portnoy of Barstool Studios of Barstool Sports gets involved. And he said he's, like, real gossipy. He's like, basically like a character in Mean Girls. And he comes out and he's like. Well, what I heard was their friendship broke up over the Carl's Jr. Commercial. Alex Cooper wanted to do the Carl's Jr. Commercial. They shared a publicist who's a female. And in fact, Alex Earl got the Carl's Jr. Commercial. You know, Paris Hilton did it once where you're, like, hot and skinny and you're eating a big, like, messy burger. Is that really Alex Cooper? She's, you know, pretty podcaster, but she's not necessarily. And she's thin, but she's not necessarily the way Alex Earl is and her sexy outfits. So who knows if we'll ever know the truth. And I am kind of surprised that Alex Cooper addressed it, but I think it's good that she did because I feel like there's a bit of a backlash towards Alex Cooper. She's the elder Gen Z. Alex Earl is the newer Gen Z er. And people always want a story where they think that an older, more successful woman fucked over a new, younger one. And sometimes the story there just isn't that story. So who knows? But it was pretty juicy. And then I went to bed with good news, finding out that Britney Spears voluntarily went to rehab for substance abuse. And I think that is so great. And I hope that she finds some peace and gets healthy and it's good for her and the family. So that is all great news. Now for our very fun juicy interview. You're absolutely going to love it. I know it. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Hello and welcome to juicy scoop. I am so excited to talk to my guest. First time here. You will recognize him. He is a delight. He's funny. He's an actor. He's a producer. He does all the things. He's a dad. Dan bukatinsky, well played. Okay. So excited.
- [10:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
Thanks for having me.
- [10:39]
Heather McDonald
Oh, I'm so excited that you're here.
- [10:40]
Dan Bukatinsky
I love you. We know each other.
- [10:43]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
- [10:43]
Dan Bukatinsky
And I've never gotten to sit on the couch.
- [10:45]
Heather McDonald
I'm so glad that I just went raw dogging it. Dmed you.
- [10:51]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes, you did.
- [10:51]
Heather McDonald
We didn't go through any of the
- [10:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
important ways, and I was like, yep.
- [10:55]
Heather McDonald
I am so excited because my audience knows that I have been obsessed. Here you are looking real cute.
- [11:03]
Dan Bukatinsky
Thank you.
- [11:03]
Heather McDonald
The comeback. Dan bukatinsky is ready for his close up. I have been obsessed with the comeback since it started. I love that you've been a writer, producer, and been on it as a character this whole time. It's such a unique show in that it started in 2005.
- [11:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [11:24]
Heather McDonald
And right from the start, when we discovered it, my husband and I, we've been married a long time. Like, you have been married to your husband for a long time. He was like, this is you. He's like, this is you now. I don't know if you know that Lisa was my teacher at the groundlings.
- [11:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
I did not know that.
- [11:40]
Heather McDonald
And I immediately had, like, such a thing with her because I grew up in woodland hills.
- [11:44]
Dan Bukatinsky
She grew up in Encina.
- [11:45]
Heather McDonald
Tarzana. She was Taft.
- [11:47]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, she did.
- [11:48]
Heather McDonald
And that her story was, you know, she was, you know, this brilliant person. Her dad was a doctor. She's gonna, like, go that route. She went pre med, and then her brother was friends with John lovitz. John lovitz who was at the groundlings. And she was like, I think I could do this. And then I always thought it was so interesting because she kind. Kenan Ivory waynes also was an engineering major.
- [12:11]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [12:11]
Heather McDonald
And when I would. And I wrote white chicks with him and worked on his TV shows, and he would always. In writing, the things go. The math of the joke. The math of the joke. And so I was like, oh, that's really interesting that Lisa has that part of the brain as well as being funny and creative that is necessary which people don't realize. Like, there is an element of that that really is great once you kind of get the math of the joke, you know?
- [12:36]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and Lisa was premature, like, all the way through. We overlapped in college. I went to Vassar College, upstate New York. And so did she. We did not know each other in college because I was Artie Farty, and she was in the biology building.
- [12:50]
Heather McDonald
Amazing.
- [12:50]
Dan Bukatinsky
And I was doing a dance troupe off of the steps of the science building, which is as close as I ever got to the science building. And she was like, oh, those annoying dancers. And that was me. And then we met 10 years later on the set of my husband's movie, the Opposite of Sex, where and she and I connected, and we're like, you know, we both went to school together at the same time, and we became friends right from there. It'll be 30 years next year. I mean, we've been friends for a very long time. But Lisa, her approach to character and comedy, and there's so much intuition inside of her, but also she's an incredibly smart, logical, rational. Like, both sides of Lisa's brain are operating at 100% all the time. And it's fascinating and inspiring to watch and to be a part of. And, you know, we've been business. We were producing partners for 15 years, but we also have been friends for almost 30, and certainly as an acting partner on many things that we've done together on screen. The comeback. Very, very satisfying to be on camera with her.
- [13:57]
Heather McDonald
It was. What's so interesting about her, too, is, like, you know, I. I just relate to her on so many levels, and I relate to this character, too, and just how she, you know, got married. Married someone not in the business. My husband's not in the business. He eventually got into helping manage the podcast when that was, like, a hit, but he was not an actor. Comedian, you know, wasn't trying to be.
- [14:20]
Dan Bukatinsky
It helps.
- [14:20]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. And was just. So what I also love is her husband in the show is like a finance guy.
- [14:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [14:27]
Heather McDonald
So. But also in real life, that she said in an interview recently, like, well, I didn't have that going on. Where both people are actors in the. In the family and how that can, you know, help a marriage or not make a marriage or get you jobs or, you know, she was always just sort of like. And she said, yeah. And the success of friends, the energy. She felt like the entertainment energy was towards the other people and not really her.
- [14:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [14:52]
Heather McDonald
And so it's so wonderful that she continue to work in these great, unique, funny projects. And it's just. And just keeps going and.
- [15:01]
Dan Bukatinsky
But she's very balanced. She's very balanced her family. And we don't have to keep talking about Lisa, but the thing that's so inspiring about her is that, you know, she's very close to her parent. She was very close to her family. Her siblings all live in Los Angeles. Her dad lives in. They all get together very often. Her family is very important to her and it balances her out.
- [15:21]
Heather McDonald
Right.
- [15:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
And in many ways, that is. That was very important to Lisa and Michael Petrick King when they created the Comeback. It was important that Valerie Cherish have a husband at home, have a nice house and have a stable life that was outside of the business. That she does not need this. She wants it. She loves it. Valerie or Valerie? Valerie. Valerie is creatively driven and driven by attention and driven by cameras and fame. Absolutely. But she doesn't need it. She comes home and she's going to be just fine.
- [15:56]
Heather McDonald
Right.
- [15:56]
Dan Bukatinsky
And that's a very important aspect of the Comeback because back in 2005, people found it really difficult to watch that this woman would face so many setbacks of, call it humiliation, call it embarrassment, call it failure, call it the stumbling blocks that all of us go through in this business. And then to feel like, oh, no, she's not gonna. You can't tell the story of that person who can't pay their health insurance. You want it to feel like something that they themselves have, have, have chased and not because they need it.
- [16:28]
Heather McDonald
This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Boll and Branch. I've been using bowl and branch sheets for a while now because I did move and I got that nice refresh feeling of like, I want it all new. I want to feel new. And maybe you're looking to do that too with your bed. And that starts with great sleep. And great sleep happens when you have the best sheets. And that's bowl and branch. Bowl and branch bedding is designed for exactly that kind of rest. From their signature organic cotton sheets to plush pillows, breathable blankets, and temperature regulating comforters, it's incredibly soft, breathable, and built to get better over time. Truly, every time I wash it, I feel like the sheet has gotten softer and I crawl into my bed and I'm just like, this is heaven and I never want to leave. Upgrade your sleep with Bolen branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolendbranch.com JuiceScoop with code JuiceScoop that's BolendBranch B O L L A N D branch.com JuiceScoop code Juicy Scoop to unlock 15% off exclusions apply. I bet you've noticed that more and more of the celebrities and the stars are performing and going out with a much more natural makeup look. And that's why I love Joan Rhodes Beauty Miracle Balm. It just gives this, like, golden hour. You just got a facial and you just had 24 hours of sleep. Like, it just does that. It's so easy to use. You just take the balm, put it on your face, and you're ready to go. It's dermatologist tested, and I love their new product, which is their lip recharge. It is so great. It's the next holy grail. Lip Recharge is a powerful lip treatment that refreshes, smooths, and hydrates on contact while nourishing your lips over time. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our Juicy Scoopers are getting a free shimmer face oil on their first purchase when they use code Juicy Scoop at checkout, just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Juicy Scoop at checkout. And after you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them Heather McDonald sent you. So question about this is such a unique situation and that it was 20 years ago and was it just the one season 20 years ago?
- [19:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes. We were canceled.
- [19:01]
Heather McDonald
So you were canceled. Okay.
- [19:03]
Dan Bukatinsky
So when I was watching that, best cancellation story ever.
- [19:06]
Heather McDonald
Because when I was watching it, I really, right off the bat, said, this is ahead of its time. Yeah, this is ahead of its time because the character was a sitcom star who then gets a reality show.
- [19:18]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [19:18]
Heather McDonald
And as someone who has loved reality TV since, like, mtv, you know, Real World. Real World and all that, like, always loved it. Wanted to be on one.
- [19:28]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Heather McDonald
And then when I was writing for Chelsea lately, I was immediately like, I. Like, I remember where I was when I saw an ad for Orange County Real Housewives holding the orange. And I go, this is such a good idea. Like, it's just like, oh, my God. So my husband and I are watching it. We're dying laughing because he's like, this is you. And there was this one scene where they get the free Explorer. Oh, yeah.
- [19:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
The Lincoln Navigator to go drive to Palm Springs.
- [19:55]
Heather McDonald
Palm Springs. And as he's driving, he's like, well, this does handle nicely. The guy in the back pops up and is like, can you say the.
- [20:02]
Dan Bukatinsky
The Lincoln Navigator handles the road really nicely. You're going to have to say Lincoln Navigator in front of each of your sentences. And then he tucks back down again. So, like, it was yesterday. How many people are in that car?
- [20:14]
Heather McDonald
Brilliant. And it's like, I feel like maybe, I think at that time, you know, it wasn't a little too inside.
- [20:21]
Dan Bukatinsky
It was. And it wasn't a lot of product placement back then. I mean, it was hard.
- [20:24]
Heather McDonald
And I think they were kind of like, what? And then just other little things, like they go to the Paul Springs place and they fall asleep and she wakes up and she forgets to have saved her lounge chair, and she, like, pulls open the drapes and he's naked with his bare ass and all these kids are swimming. She's like, the day is ruined and the day is rude. We've not done the. And I'm like, oh, my God. That's. Everything about it is me like, I'm just like. And then it's just so great.
- [20:49]
Dan Bukatinsky
It was ahead of its time in the sense that there wasn't a lot of the kind of reality that has already. That had already been established were the competition shows like Amazing Race, like Survivor. And there was this show, to be honest with you, there was this show that Anna Nicole Smith was doing on Eve.
- [21:07]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
- [21:07]
Dan Bukatinsky
Where the cameras were following this celebrity around her home and in her life. And Lisa, who had played a character in the Groundlings, that was basically Valerie Cherish.
- [21:18]
Heather McDonald
Oh, I love that.
- [21:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
Pitched to Michael Patrick King over lunch in 2004. What if, like the Anna Nicole show, a camera crew is following Valerie Cherish around in her life and Lisa would improvise as Valerie Cherish, and the two of them started to cook up this idea that we are living in a time. And this again, 2004, 2005, where the greatest thing threat to writers of television at that time was the very notion of reality, of reality tv.
- [21:48]
Heather McDonald
That's true.
- [21:49]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah. And so that was just what the theme of the story was. It was like, you're working on a sitcom, but the only way you're allowed to work on this sitcom is if you're also in the reality show. And the way the writers, and particularly Pauly G. This showrunner, reacted to the fact that he's being forced to be on a reality show is with such rage. And we were canceled after that. And then audiences found the comeback over
- [22:15]
Heather McDonald
the years, which is also so great about streaming.
- [22:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
We were on dvd, though.
- [22:20]
Heather McDonald
Yeah. Oh, no. Wow.
- [22:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
They found it on dvd. There was no streaming at that point.
- [22:24]
Heather McDonald
Oh, my God, it was amazing.
- [22:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
They were watching the Comeback because they would find it either. HBO continued to play it, which they did, but also the DVD with all the DVD extras. I highly recommend looking at them, because that's the only place they exist, those DVD extras. But then we had this opportunity to maybe come back and do a season two 10 years later. And in 2014, it was a very different landscape in television. So suddenly the shows took on this sort of time capsule feeling. We're catching up with Valerie Cherish now 10 years later. And now the threat to broadcast television is cable. You know, like premium cable is now gonna stomp out basic, you know, basic network television. And then people kept asking, will there ever be a third season of the Comeback? And we were like, I don't know. We don't know. And finally, Lisa and Michael, who would have lunch every year and talk about, what do you think? We could. What do you think is going on in the life of Valerie Cherish? And Lisa was like, it would be so cool if we had seen her during the strike. Because to see someone like Valerie taking advantage of the opportunities at the strike, and that. That led them to this. What if. Forget about the strike, because the strike was about AI? What if Valerie gets offered the first ever written sitcom written by AI and the two of them blit up and they were like this. We have to do it. And they pitched it to hbo and they were like, if you're going to do it, you have to do it right this minute. And they. Lisa and Michael wrote all eight episodes. And we wrapped in November and are on the air in March.
- [23:59]
Heather McDonald
It's amazing because I've talked. I've had this show for 10 years. My audience is really great, and they're a great demographic of women and men, but mostly women. And they're like. I've said, I've come across shows, and I'm like, I think this was written by AI. This is so fricking bad. And so then when people are like, heather, the new Comeback is about AI, like, you're gonna die. And so I love it because you guys go back a couple years so that she can do. Deal with the strike. And Covid, which just.
- [24:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, we. We dealt with that.
- [24:30]
Heather McDonald
It's the part of Roxie Hart in Chicago, which I've also talked at nauseam about how it was like, there's always. I remember when they did this with Rizzo.
- [24:39]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes. When every sitcom popped in, it was like the revolving cast of Rizzo and Grease. Rizzo and the revival of Grease. This week it's going to be. And next week, Rosie o', Donnell, Brooke Shield, they all did it. And the same thing with Roxy in Chicago. And it's still that way, but now
- [24:55]
Heather McDonald
it's kind of like the reality star gets it.
- [24:58]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, correct.
- [24:58]
Heather McDonald
And just the fact that she was like, how do the fuck do I get out of it? And I've had things in my life where I said yes to it. My husband, being a financial person, will be like, why would you do this? This makes no sense. And I'm like, you are not an artist. You don't understand. Standups don't do gigs for the money. And I just want to do this.
- [25:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
I'm an artist.
- [25:20]
Heather McDonald
I just want to do the stand up thing again. And then I'm like, oh, my God. So when she's like, well, why did I do this? Like, why am I here?
- [25:27]
Dan Bukatinsky
What am I gonna do? I can't quit. I can't quit. I mean, I have a contract.
- [25:30]
Heather McDonald
Why can't you quit? And then using the COVID excuse with the.
- [25:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
And I love not just the COVID excuse that she assisted, but the notion that she left. She left that Broadway show because she needed to stand side by side with the writers who are in LA on the picket line. That is classic.
- [25:48]
Heather McDonald
It was so funny because when Chelsea Lately started, I was just a writer right from the start on it. And then, you know, got on the panel and then she kind of realized, oh, we could have a group of writers that, you know, and we have our own world around them.
- [26:02]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [26:02]
Heather McDonald
Anyway. But prior to that, I think one of the reasons it was a hit is because we were not Writers Guild. And there was a strike at that time in 2007.
- [26:11]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, there was.
- [26:12]
Heather McDonald
And only one other writer and myself were Writers Guild. And so our EP at the time walked into my office and she said, heather, Ted and I have spoken and we want you to know that if you need to leave and be with your comrades on the picket line, that your job is safe when you return. And I go, I haven't had a Writer's Guild job in, like 10 years. Cause this is like my first job since having kids. And I go, so thank you, but I'm good. No, I'll be the story producer and whatever.
- [26:46]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [26:46]
Heather McDonald
And. But it was exactly that thing. Like, would you. I'm like, no. And then it was great because then we were like, the only game in town. And I really do think that helped because everybody else couldn't do it, and we were still Doing, like, funny things.
- [26:58]
Dan Bukatinsky
Sure.
- [26:59]
Heather McDonald
And. And then. So I love that whole thing. That's just hilarious.
- [27:04]
Dan Bukatinsky
It was her out. It was her out for sure. And then we cut. You know, this is an episode one of the. Of our new season, but we. We catch up with the present, and she. Like, she would. She's got a podcast. Cherish the time.
- [27:17]
Heather McDonald
I love podcasts.
- [27:18]
Dan Bukatinsky
And she's taking advantage of whatever opportunities are coming her way. A little indie movie. One day on an indie movie. And her podcast.
- [27:26]
Heather McDonald
But thank you for. I love podcast humor. I have, you know, been doing this for a long time.
- [27:32]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes, you have.
- [27:32]
Heather McDonald
And I started it for the exact same reasons that Valerie did is after Chelsea Lately ended. I had two different pilots at TLC that aired, but didn't go further after six episodes. And I just, like Valerie said, well, I guess it's time for a podcast. And I made $250 a month the first year. I just did it to let people know I was at the Chuckle Hut wherever. And then it became a thing. And then it was like, oh, everyone can have one.
- [27:59]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, but you were doing it early, right?
- [28:01]
Heather McDonald
So I was doing it early, but I loved how, of course she would have it. And then kind of realized, like, well, it doesn't matter. This isn't supposed to be professional. But then realizing, wow, we've talked a long time and patience. The brilliantly acted Ella Stiller.
- [28:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
Amazing.
- [28:17]
Heather McDonald
Cute. Like, Gen Z er is like, you're at 14 minutes.
- [28:24]
Dan Bukatinsky
Well, what else is on the list?
- [28:25]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, what else?
- [28:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
Peach lipstick. It's one of my favorite lines in the whole thing. She's like, well, let's look at the list of hot topics. Peach lipstick. And then she was like, you know What? We're at 42 minutes. She's like, okay, good, good. And her cans are off of her face fast enough.
- [28:39]
Heather McDonald
Cause there are so many people that to have started podcasts and stuff that did it during the COVID time. And if someone convinced them, you know, I can get you this deal.
- [28:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
She's just doing it, though, and it's not really generating a lot. And it's the reason why we set the table that way. The way that Michael and Lisa set the table that way is so that when Billie walks into her condo and says, are you. You know, are you ready to hear incredible news? You've been.
- [29:04]
Heather McDonald
Which is your character.
- [29:05]
Dan Bukatinsky
My character, Billy, are you ready? Because you have been offered the starring role. I mean, I don't even say that yet. You've been offered a role. And the scene we cut, you know, the scene got. Got cut down a little bit. There was a moment there where I was showing her how much they were offering her how much money, like. And she looked at it. She's like, for the whole thing? I'm like, no. Per episode. I mean, my head's going to explode. Because it's such good news. Did Billy check to see if the unions are okay with it now? Does Billy check to see AI? Meaning what? Will there be any writers on it? He doesn't care. The bottom line is Billy got an offer. It doesn't matter. It's for a lot of money. And it's the first window into the fact that Bill just chasing opportunity. This is a chance to be an executive producer on a show, and who cares? And I'm sure it's legal, or else they wouldn't be doing it, which is the dumbest thing it could possibly say. And therein launches a big idea that Michael and Lisa were thinking, if we're gonna do another season, we better be doing one that is a big idea that feels like a big threat right now, which it does. And it's relevant and it's hilarious.
- [30:07]
Heather McDonald
It is so hilarious. And then so the husband, the finance husband comes, and he is also going to quit his job to do a reality show.
- [30:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
He's left his job for reasons that have not come out yet, which, when you watch the rest of the season, will unfold. But he. He told a joke, and he was. He. He was asked to.
- [30:28]
Heather McDonald
She's like, well, that was in 2020. You couldn't. Jokes were illegal.
- [30:31]
Dan Bukatinsky
Jokes were illegal Then, you know, jokes. That was back when jokes were illegal.
- [30:34]
Heather McDonald
And it's so true. And it's so funny, and, like, it's just so good.
- [30:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
And he's trying to figure out, what do I do now?
- [30:40]
Heather McDonald
She's like, he's got a reality show. Finance Bros. Finance Dudes. Dudes. And she's like, he's our own Mauricio. Like, there's just so many funny references. Oh, my God, you guys are so.
- [30:50]
Dan Bukatinsky
Everyone's gonna love it. Everyone's gonna love it.
- [30:52]
Heather McDonald
Okay, so what I love about your character is even though you're the manager, we all know, and we've all had someone either being our assistant or our agent or our manager or something along the way.
- [31:05]
Dan Bukatinsky
Oh, my gosh.
- [31:06]
Heather McDonald
Actually want to be in front of the camera.
- [31:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
You know, my first publicist, I came out with a book in 2012 called does this Baby Make Me Straight?
- [31:13]
Heather McDonald
Oh, that's so good. I love that.
- [31:14]
Dan Bukatinsky
Which was my kind of chronicle Comedic chronicling of how I became a dad, how my husband and I became parents. But when I was promoting the book, I got booked on the Talk and I had fired my publicist, but he insisted on coming anyway. And so he was in my dressing room and I was like, this is so awkward. I mean, what are you doing here? I mean, you're not my publicist anymore. And before I could literally blink and turn my head, he was on stage. Julie Chen Moonvest was the. Was sort of like the lead host. And before I could literally turn or get mic'd up, this publicist was chatting with her about getting himself on the
- [31:54]
Heather McDonald
Talk as like, what to talk? Hot Topics or Hollywood Scoop?
- [31:58]
Dan Bukatinsky
Hollywood Scoop. His job as a publicist, Hollywood pr. Like, I could be a great guest. He was there to pitch himself on the show on the day that I was there for the first time on a talk show to promote my book. And I was like, oh my God, like at every turn, everyone is looking for their moment. So there is a lot of that in Billy this season.
- [32:20]
Heather McDonald
Had you thought about that in creating this and where the character's going?
- [32:24]
Dan Bukatinsky
Listen, it was gonna be a first fighter. Listen. It was the character that Michael and Lisa created back in 2025 when Lisa needed a publicist. She was desperate for a publicist. And she says to Mickey, her gay hairdresser back in 2005, I gotta get a gay Mickey. I gotta get a gay. And so she meets Billy. And Billy is this kid, this young guy who's not that young, you know, who had just been passed over for a promotion by a very big firm and was pissed off about it and shoves everybody. In season one, you see this rage in Billy. He's unable to deal with conflict and so he shoves anybody who doesn't give him what he wants. You don't quite get a hint that he's kind of after a certain amount of credit for himself. In season two, he's like, throws the phone and throws a hissy fit because someone else is trying to do his job better than he can. And so he's self hating and kind of. He's got inner demons. But only this season, now, 20 years later, are you seeing that he's looking for opportunity for Valerie. He's been a really good manager and now he wants to be a producing partner. But what he's after for himself doesn't really come to play until like last night's episode where suddenly he's. He's literally being filmed for varieties. 50 over 50, 50 under 50. No, 50 over 50.
- [33:46]
Heather McDonald
Oh, it's 50 over 50.
- [33:47]
Dan Bukatinsky
50 over 50. It doesn't even exist. But one could. Can you imagine that existing? 100%. So he's got even funnier. He's on a photo shoot. Valerie needs him. She's in a total code red. And he's like, I'm there for you as soon as I'm done with my single photo shoot and my group photo shoot for varieties. 50 over 50.
- [34:05]
Heather McDonald
And my also favorite is that he is using her. Social media person.
- [34:09]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [34:10]
Heather McDonald
For himself.
- [34:11]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [34:12]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [34:12]
Dan Bukatinsky
And he says the words that says everything you need to know about him and most of the planet. I am suicidal for some solo press. Like, if you don't get out of the frame, they're just gonna run with a photo of you in it. So step away.
- [34:24]
Heather McDonald
Right, Exactly.
- [34:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's my turn.
- [34:26]
Heather McDonald
Let's go. Right here. It's my turn.
- [34:28]
Dan Bukatinsky
And this is. Yeah, this is in Town and Country. This just came out, this piece.
- [34:32]
Heather McDonald
Very cute.
- [34:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
And it's really just. It's really about the fact that Billy is this opportunist.
- [34:40]
Heather McDonald
I also love that. Remember when also in. In this business where all of a sudden managers and agents were like, we are gonna be your. Like, we are gonna produce it too.
- [34:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
They became executive producers and then like.
- [34:54]
Heather McDonald
But then you don't have to pay commission, so that's right.
- [34:56]
Dan Bukatinsky
Okay, that might work.
- [34:57]
Heather McDonald
But then when you're trying to sell shows, it would like. I mean, I've had it up a deal and I was like, wait a minute, I didn't need this.
- [35:04]
Dan Bukatinsky
Look, to be fair, some managers became among the best EPs and yes, producers in town. It's fewer and far between. It became a foregone conclusion that your management company became the production company that made, you know, anonymous content, has made a lot of television. And there are great management companies that became great production companies, right?
- [35:25]
Heather McDonald
Absolutely.
- [35:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
But not every manager knows how to be a producer. And Billy is a manager who's been given the title of executive producer and is running with it in episode two. He's had hats made that say executive producer on them. What the hell? Like, are you kidding? How much did that cost? And why would you do that?
- [35:44]
Heather McDonald
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- [39:18]
Dan Bukatinsky
showers, we're taking a picture. It's so embarrassing. The truth of the matter is it really is a saying something much larger about society in general, which Lisa said recently in an interview, which is. And it's what our season's about a little bit. Everybody. Everybody has become Valerie Cherish. We now live in a world where you don't need a reality crew to follow your. To. To control your narrative. You need your. You've got one of these. Yeah, everyone's got a phone and Instagram and TikTok, and you can tell your story and be the star of your own story. And the thirst that people have for that kind of attention, it exists in the palm of our hands.
- [39:53]
Heather McDonald
I also love. And I think this is really relatable to any business, is you go to meet. She's gonna do the show. She's excited. You bring her for this first meeting, and you think you're gonna walk into a room of actual people and no, it's just the screen with the wall of a Zoom.
- [40:10]
Dan Bukatinsky
30 people on a zoom in a conference room with no one else there.
- [40:14]
Heather McDonald
And I also love that they show all the faces and when they're like, hi, Valerie. And then you can spot, like, the three very effeminate gay guys that have been watching her since they were 12.
- [40:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
Correct.
- [40:25]
Heather McDonald
And they're like, yeah, hey, girl. And I'm like, oh, I just. This is so funny. It's like there's all those subtle things that you guys thought of. I just am like, it's so Michael Patrick King.
- [40:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
It was such an incredible director, the two of them. The chemistry between Lisa Kudrow and Michael Patrick King when they're writing the Comeback is like two people who just lock in and can really tell the world of a story, the problems and the challenges of Valerie Cherish, and also make every other character in her orbit real people. And when Michael was directing even those background artists to be some of the people on that zoom, he gave every single one of them a situation, an environment. Here's the person you are at work. Think about what your office looks like. What do you. You Know, he gave everybody something to actually play. And so the world of that Zoom feels full. Cause it was unrelatable.
- [41:24]
Heather McDonald
And then it ends. And then the guy was actually down the hall, which I literally had that happen. Yeah, I had a meeting.
- [41:31]
Dan Bukatinsky
You think that they're in New York.
- [41:32]
Heather McDonald
I had a meeting and I was like, oh, the people are in New York. And they're like, no, but they're just gonna do it on.
- [41:40]
Dan Bukatinsky
On Zoom.
- [41:41]
Heather McDonald
On Zoom. And I'm like, but I had to drive an hour and a half to get to Netflix. Like, what?
- [41:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's unbelievable. I know, I know. I once pitched at. I think it might have been one of the major platforms at. At the building of their platform. And the executives who were employees of that platform were joined me via Zoom, I guess, from home.
- [42:05]
Heather McDonald
And also, I just think that is just so cheesy and real when they're like, how do we get in the Valerie Cherish business? Like, I totally remember people saying that to me, and I'm like, I'm a business. Like, just. I was like, what?
- [42:17]
Dan Bukatinsky
Wow. Blowing smoke a little bit. And it helps.
- [42:20]
Heather McDonald
Absolutely, absolutely. Like, or you're like, you know, deciding between agents or whatever.
- [42:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
And it's like, well, it, you know, Lisa got Emmy nominated for the first season and the second season, and. And it never went her way. But for the Comeback. For the Comeback. No, no. Yeah. At least it's got an Emmy for Friends, but. Yeah, but for the Comeback. And this has been a. You know, this is the. I think the only show in the history of television that took 22 years to make three seasons. And it really allowed us to tell these very big stories 10 years apart, kind of like a time capsule of our business. But she channels this incredibly three dimensional character who's emotional, hilarious, outlandish, is trying to control her narrative, but also, I believe, is a heroic figure. I mean, Valerie Cherish has a way of flipping the switch toward to the positive, even when she's being kicked in the teeth. And would that we all have that ability to turn it around when it's really not good.
- [43:21]
Heather McDonald
And like the woman of a certain age, like, even when she said when she's like, I left you a voice message or like, voice message, why don't you just leave a voice note? All right, whatever.
- [43:28]
Dan Bukatinsky
No one.
- [43:29]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, there's so many times where I like, you know, I remember a few years ago or something, I was. I had this assistant working for me, and I'm like, no, I called them. She's like, call them.
- [43:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
That's like, pretty you left a message on the machine.
- [43:40]
Heather McDonald
She's like, that's pretty aggressive. And I'm like, oh. Actually, calling someone is like, seems like I've been attacked. But I'm like, no. I just think it's like, sometimes people misinterpret the text.
- [43:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
So I'm just like.
- [43:52]
Heather McDonald
And also, like, you can't now. I always call because I'm like, you see these scandals where someone has screen grabbed the text.
- [44:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
I know.
- [44:01]
Heather McDonald
And you're like, I'd just rather call you, because you can't.
- [44:03]
Dan Bukatinsky
But that's why people like a voice memo, because they're not gonna listen to a whole answering machine message. Not answering machine, voicemail message. How old am I? But the idea that Billy's like, don't send me a text or an email. Why would I answer any of the emails? Well, maybe because you're an executive producer on the show. Have you read any of the scripts? No. So it's like, just send me a voice memo. And what he does at the end of the episode last night is so egregious. It's so egregious and so aw that it's gonna have repercussions for a bit. But, you know, to literally record Valerie giving me the. What she thinks is gonna be the words that I should use when I talk to the network, and he just sends her voice memo to them.
- [44:42]
Heather McDonald
It's so funny and I love it. We could talk about it forever. And I'm so excited that there's still, like, four episodes left that I can enjoy and milk out. And I love that it's once a week. Please, please. I don't want to binge. I don't wanna binge.
- [44:57]
Dan Bukatinsky
No, it really gives you something to look forward to.
- [44:59]
Heather McDonald
I mean, I have so few things
- [45:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
to look forward to, and they really did. I said, you know, Lysa and Michael really came up with an arc for every one of the characters in the orbit of Valerie Cherish. And Billy is no exception. I mean, Billy really takes this opportunity and something starts to emerge in him that the audience can track happening for the whole season. And then there's an unbelievable transform. Well, there's an unbelievable thing that happens in the last two episodes.
- [45:25]
Heather McDonald
Okay. I'm so excited, and I could talk about this forever. I do wanna talk a little bit about your other big roles that you had, you know, in Scandal.
- [45:36]
Dan Bukatinsky
Scandal. Yep.
- [45:37]
Heather McDonald
Again, ahead of its time.
- [45:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
It was an amazing moment in time for two reasons. One, and I remember reading the pilot. Shonda Rhimes wrote this pilot that Was this unbelievable. I call it genre bending because it was a soap opera, but it took place in D.C. and was about politics, and yet it was also about underground torture and the dark side of D.C. and this fixer, this Washington D.C. sort of scandal fixer that every week was also a procedural. Like there was a case every week that would wrap itself up. Of course, the soap of the show kind of took over.
- [46:16]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [46:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
But I was really lucky at that time. I had just written my book about my kids, about becoming a dad. And Shonda and I met. I had done an episode of Grey's Anatomy, and I was meeting to be a writer on Grey's Anatomy, and they hired me to play the husband of the chief of staff on Scandal, who really wanted a baby more than anything in the world, this writer. So there was a lot about me as a person that kind of went into playing James on Scandal, the writer who wanted to be a dad.
- [46:47]
Heather McDonald
You know, that's so interesting, because I don't know if you watched that doc about this writer that was on Grey's Anatomy that lied about cancer and all that. Did you know anything about that?
- [47:01]
Dan Bukatinsky
Well, when I left the writing staff of Grey's Anatomy, she came in.
- [47:07]
Heather McDonald
But I will tell you by that story.
- [47:09]
Dan Bukatinsky
There's a story in my book that I mentioned before that is about how Don and I met. And this is true story.
- [47:15]
Heather McDonald
Your husband.
- [47:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
My husband, Don Roos, who I met years and years and years ago. And when I met him, he was taking care of his assistant who had cancer. And so part of the circle of friends that I met when I met Don, and In the first 10 months of our dating, so much of our time was about caretaking this person who was going through chemo and lost her hair and was going in for treatments and had a shot shunt in her chest and was incontinent. And we were buying her diapers and we were visiting her at her. It was really ugly the first 10 months of my dating Don, but a very similar. It had a very similar ending. And the.
- [47:53]
Heather McDonald
Wait, stop. The assistant was also not being truthful about her illness.
- [48:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
She was not being truthful about her illness. And the discovery of that fact and what it did and the repercussions of it, I chronicle in a chapter of my book because it was so important to how I met Don. I mean, it was the first year of our dating, and she was very threatened by my presence. And so her cancer kept rearing its ugly head because it was a way of getting his attention. So cut to years and years later. Right. 15 years later, maybe more. Wait, 90. I mean, 20 years later, maybe. And I hear this story about this woman who is lying about her own cancer and using it in the writer's room as a way of pitching herself as a writer, as a way of pitching stories for Grey's Anatomy, which made sense. Which made sense. And the way in which she was found out and it became a documentary, I think is on Hulu still.
- [48:53]
Heather McDonald
It was fascinating because as someone who's been in a writer's room and how you do use a lot of your own stories.
- [49:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
Oh, you're there because you're.
- [49:01]
Heather McDonald
And, you know, you were like, yeah, let's use that. Let's. You know. And then also, I'm just. I'm fascinated by grifters. But the lying about cancer grift is so.
- [49:11]
Dan Bukatinsky
It crosses such a huge line. Well, it's a kind of emotional abuse that is preying on the empathy and the sympathy of others. And also, in our case, I mean, she was. There was so much money being.
- [49:25]
Heather McDonald
That's what I'm saying.
- [49:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
Spent.
- [49:26]
Heather McDonald
And most of the times, it does turn out to be a money grift because it's. You're getting money from the church or the charity or the lady down the street or your boss.
- [49:35]
Dan Bukatinsky
A lot of this is about attention. A lot of this is about trying.
- [49:38]
Heather McDonald
Sometimes it does turn into money, and that's when it becomes a crime. If there is no money, then you were just a liar, Correct. Yeah.
- [49:44]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah. You can be the victim of that kind of emotional abuse. And there's no. There's no repercussion legally. The only way we were able to put this particular person in jail, which we did, was because we had records of how much money we had spent on her, and we were able to turn it into a felony.
- [50:01]
Heather McDonald
And this was his assistant.
- [50:02]
Dan Bukatinsky
This was someone who began as his assistant on a movie he was doing with Michelle Pfeiffer. And, you know, I mean, I'm also
- [50:09]
Heather McDonald
fascinated by the world of a Hollywood assistant.
- [50:13]
Dan Bukatinsky
Oh, my God.
- [50:14]
Heather McDonald
And they. I mean, the. It's just. It's. The old version is all about Eve.
- [50:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [50:19]
Heather McDonald
Which I've talked about this movie because my mom was like, this is such a good movie. Which is more the understudy who acts like she's a fan.
- [50:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
Correct.
- [50:26]
Heather McDonald
You know, becomes the understudy and then eventually becomes the woman, in fact, stealing her husband.
- [50:30]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's about ambition, though, when you want.
- [50:32]
Heather McDonald
But it's the ambition. Yeah, it's the ambition, which. And it's like, such A hard thing, because whether it's like, you know, one of those is like, Rachel, Zo and Brad, you know, and she's tried to, you know, not say anything, and he's gone on his way and been successful, but the audience is so fascinated by it because we watch them work together and we love them together. So we're like, well, why couldn't you stay together forever? And it's like, well, nobody's meant to be the assistant forever.
- [51:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
This is why it's tricky. If you're, you know, everyone should use their earlier experiences to help them grow and then try to, you know, leave the nest and go do the next thing. No one can blame someone for doing that. But when you are using and manipulating the leverage of the person you work for in order to step over steps, or you're making up a story, or you're abusing your privilege or your access in order to get through the door for something that you're ambitious for, that's when it becomes really tricky. And in show business, the lines are so blurred. Your assistants, there's a great assistant, is an amazing thing. But the access they have and the proximity they have and the ability, right?
- [51:45]
Heather McDonald
And then when you find out that they have been deceptive, it's truly like. Like being cheated on 100%.
- [51:52]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's a betrayal.
- [51:53]
Heather McDonald
You're like, what? Like, I know people who have had you on a trip. I did this and that. I met everyone in your family. And then you turn around within months and. And say. Or film a TikTok about me or do this awful thing, like, what?
- [52:05]
Dan Bukatinsky
I know it's why NDAs are so important.
- [52:08]
Heather McDonald
But even then.
- [52:09]
Dan Bukatinsky
But even then, what are you gonna do?
- [52:11]
Heather McDonald
Because it's like betrayal, right? Because then it's like, if you're really gonna. Are you really gonna go after this person.
- [52:15]
Dan Bukatinsky
Person and spend a fortune and that's
- [52:17]
Heather McDonald
30 years younger than you.
- [52:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
Correct.
- [52:19]
Heather McDonald
So now you look like the, you know, curmudgeony, you know, Jet X or
- [52:23]
Dan Bukatinsky
going after the payoff for them, though, by the way, anybody out there thinking this all sounds like a good idea, here's the thing, at the end of the day, it doesn't pay off, because really, you want to have the goods. When you get an opportunity that then helps you grow and inspires you to the next step. The only thing that's going to happen is a door is going to open. And whatever you have, whether it's a script or your acting talent or your singing talent or whatever it is that you're bringing to the next Thing, that door that opens, you have to have it. The talent needs to be there to show.
- [52:53]
Heather McDonald
Right. Whenever, you know, when they say, oh, you were lucky, it's like, I think this is the expression. No. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.
- [53:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
Correct.
- [53:01]
Heather McDonald
So sometimes the opportunity comes too soon and it's not gonna work out.
- [53:03]
Dan Bukatinsky
No, it's lucky.
- [53:05]
Heather McDonald
You have to see the opportunity, but also be ready to handle it correctly.
- [53:10]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes. Luck plays a role in what doors happen to open when you're standing in front of them. But once you walk through the threshold, luck has nothing to do with it anymore.
- [53:19]
Heather McDonald
Right.
- [53:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
You better have.
- [53:20]
Heather McDonald
You better be talented, be smart.
- [53:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
That's right.
- [53:22]
Heather McDonald
Hardworking and all that. So you guys fell in love and how old were you when you.
- [53:30]
Dan Bukatinsky
You know, we did. Took a little bit, I have to say. Like, one of the reasons I think we've started, we've been together for 33 years, is because it wasn't fast. We met and we immediately got along. And Don's 10 years older than I am, and I was in my 20s, so I was in a kind of a different place. He was coming out of a relationship that he had been in for a while, and I was really in no position to want to be with someone who was as well established as he was. I was working in the box office of a theater in Beverly Hills. Like, I was, my group of friends, we were all established, we were all working minimum wage. We were all sort of actors, writers, musicians, trying to get a gig. And he had just sold them, you know, a movie with. He was at the top of his game as a screenwriter. And that was really off. And it wasn't off putting, but it was not really. We were not at the same place, but we got along so well and we made each other laugh. And so we just kept landing. As much as both of us. He was like, I don't wanna date someone 10 years younger. I certainly don't wanna date an actor. So this is never gonna work.
- [54:32]
Heather McDonald
Nobody wants to date an actor.
- [54:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
No one wants to date. And yeah, I wouldn't want to date me, by the way, like, I don't blame him. It was doomed from the start. I was like, yeah, this guy is way more established than I am and he's just coming out of a marriage and this thing will be over by Christmas.
- [54:46]
Heather McDonald
Now. Was he married? He was married to another man.
- [54:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
He was in a relationship, long term relationship, and they had just split up. And I was like, this is never going to. This won't last till Christmas. And, you know, Valentine's day the next. That next year we were still together. And it really. We put the time in to really get to know each other and become friends and have a foundation for our relationship. And I think it's one of the reasons why we've had staying power for 33 years. We didn't have kids for 10 years, so we had established ourselves as a couple before we even thought about adopting our kids.
- [55:20]
Heather McDonald
And as a couple. You know, at that time, gay marriage wasn't legal when you first got together.
- [55:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
No.
- [55:27]
Heather McDonald
Um, though there were many. There were many long term couples and they were parents.
- [55:31]
Dan Bukatinsky
And Don wasn't into marriage. He was like, I don't even like the whole idea of marriage. It's just like what's. I don't think that we should put a bunch of all. Put everyone together in a giant room to force ourselves to commit to each other in public as a way of coercing. He. Don had a kind of more romantic view of it all. It's like every day should be a decision that you make to stay with that person for that day. And the next day is another day, and the next day is another day. And at any point when it's not working or you don't want to be there anymore, there should be a feeling that you could move on. And I've always loved that idea where like every. That forever isn't really something that you can commit to on a day. You can commit to today, and then you can commit to the next day, and then you look back forever. Something you look back on and realize that what you've done is stay together for years and years and years of today's.
- [56:24]
Heather McDonald
You guys did get to a place where you could get married legally, correct?
- [56:28]
Dan Bukatinsky
2008. We had already had a kid. We adopted our daughter.
- [56:32]
Heather McDonald
Okay, so you did adoption.
- [56:34]
Dan Bukatinsky
We adopt.
- [56:34]
Heather McDonald
How did you decide on adoption versus surrogacy?
- [56:38]
Dan Bukatinsky
There was a lot of pressure to do surrogacy. Like all the gays that we knew were. Were meeting with surrogates and going that route. And Don did not feel comfortable given the number. And he was right that given the number of. Of children who need homes and babies that are being carried by birth moms who don't have the means or whether physical, mental, emotional, or financial means to be parents. There's such an opportunity to become a parent of an existing soul rather than create one. And Don really wanted to go the route of adoption. And I just wanted to be a dad, so it didn't make a difference to me.
- [57:19]
Heather McDonald
So did you use Like a lawyer.
- [57:20]
Dan Bukatinsky
We had a lawyer who connected us to a birth mom. I tell this entire story and does this baby make me, make me look savage? Because we went down a path that didn't work out. And then we.
- [57:30]
Heather McDonald
So I was just gonna ask. That's always really life. It's a real Lifetime movie. Sad Lifetime movie storyline. It is of where, you know, you fall in love with this young mother and she's chosen you and everything's great and you buy her a car and you do this and you get the house ready and. And then either it was a scam or she changes her mind or whatever.
- [57:51]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes. It didn't work out with the first one. And then pretty quickly after we met our. The birth mom that is the birth mom of our. Both of our. Of our daughter. And then two years later, our son.
- [58:01]
Heather McDonald
Oh, okay.
- [58:02]
Dan Bukatinsky
And as it turns. And she had had twins to begin with. So my kids have biological.
- [58:07]
Heather McDonald
So have they met them?
- [58:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah, yeah. We every other year we travel to Wisconsin and meet. Hang out with the, with the Bio family.
- [58:15]
Heather McDonald
Oh, really?
- [58:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's a very open thing. There's still a lot of complicated feelings around all of it for, for every side.
- [58:22]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [58:23]
Dan Bukatinsky
But we, There's a lot of love there too. And my kids Snapchat with their birth mom and it's, it's, it's an open thing and it's. I think that's been a good thing for them.
- [58:33]
Heather McDonald
And when she, you know, was choosing a family, obviously she was okay with.
- [58:39]
Dan Bukatinsky
She picked us because of Queer Eye. And then I became friends with the guys who created Queer Eye and I was like, you know that we're dads because of your show. Because our birth mom thought that all those guys, I'll never forget it. She was, you know, very thick Wisconsin accent and she was like, you know, I think you guys would make awesome, awesome dads. Cause of all those guys on Queer Eye, they all seem like they'd make awesome dads. So she wanted. And there's a phenomenon a little bit when you're a birth mom and you sort of always want to be the only mom. Even just.
- [59:11]
Heather McDonald
That's interesting.
- [59:12]
Dan Bukatinsky
Literally the only mom. So there is some comfort sometimes. Yeah. In letting a same sex couple guys be, be the, be the adoptive parents.
- [59:22]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, I could see that. And also just the safety that you feel when you have gay friends or, you know, you know, gay men.
- [59:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [59:30]
Heather McDonald
Versus when you have a platonic friendship with a guy that's not gay. You know, like you're always going to be that kind of. Oh, and, you know, I always was like, yeah, having a gay best friend whose man is just the greatest. Because they still are men. They are still chivalrous. I'm saying the word wrong, but they're still, like, opening the door and helping you. They're all still gentlemen. But then. And you can still laugh and you can still talk about guys and have so much fun. But then, unlike a girlfriend, which is also a really special relationship, like a girlfriend, there's never like, this, like, competition.
- [60:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [60:08]
Heather McDonald
The only problem.
- [60:09]
Dan Bukatinsky
No, the guys are just. You know, there's a comfort in a straight woman having a gay best friend because he's not trying to get into her pants.
- [60:16]
Heather McDonald
Right.
- [60:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
Unless the pants would fit him, in which case maybe he would. If they'd look, if they're cute, you know, But. But no, there's, like, there's. There's a whole element that is removed from it.
- [60:25]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
- [60:25]
Dan Bukatinsky
That doesn't feel charged. And it kind of allows there to be an. A kind of pureness to. To the relationship. I think guys feel that way about their straight women friends, too.
- [60:37]
Heather McDonald
I mean, the only thing, and I've said this before, that I don't think a lot of women realize is that we're oftentimes not the only one. Yeah, but the love relationship with your gay best friend, even though you're not the only one, you feel you are the only one.
- [60:57]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [60:58]
Heather McDonald
There's no way that he could have the chemistry that he has with you with another woman. There is a lot of that, and I once. I, like, accepted that. Yeah, it's fine. But there's times where I think other women might be a little too confident in that.
- [61:14]
Dan Bukatinsky
In their position.
- [61:16]
Heather McDonald
Yes.
- [61:17]
Dan Bukatinsky
In the pecking order. You know, I've tried to write. I've written pilots for. I've been a television writer in addition to being an actor for so many years, and I've written so many pilots about that relationship, about the relationship between either the gay guy and his straight sister or the gay guy and his gay best friend. The gay guy and his straight best male friend. These are dynamics that we don't always see dramatized. Will and Grace, of course, did it so beautifully, but I love to see those. The way in which those relationships foster aspects of our lives that we don't normally see on TV. And it's. It's true.
- [61:58]
Heather McDonald
So your kids are now 18 and 21.
- [62:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
18 and 21.
- [62:01]
Heather McDonald
And so you were definitely, like, at the forefront of the gay dad LA movement, where you could be out and about. It's not a secret it's nothing weird. Kids understand that their friend has two dads instead of a dad.
- [62:15]
Dan Bukatinsky
It took a little bit though.
- [62:16]
Heather McDonald
Tell me, like, what were some of the.
- [62:18]
Dan Bukatinsky
Back in the day when we were, you know, Don and I would walk through an airport, there are a lot of questions of like, where's their mom? People would come up to us.
- [62:26]
Heather McDonald
Oh. Like in other places we would be
- [62:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
traveling somewhere and they would assume that they would. They would try to figure out what's going on.
- [62:33]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [62:34]
Dan Bukatinsky
It wouldn't be as commonplace as it is now. Modern Family had not been a TV show.
- [62:38]
Heather McDonald
You know, you're Before Modern Family.
- [62:40]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah. So the notion of two men having a baby on a plane, in a restaurant, on a bus, on a boat, on a goat with a mouse in a house, all those things did not exist yet. Or if they did, they were unique to Los Angeles and New York and Chicago and San Francisco, the big cities. So oftentimes. And I would get really. Don would use it as an opportunity. Cause he's nicer than I am, to just educate. And I would be annoyed. I'd be like, you know, none of your, you know. Well, you just assume, you assume that this can't be my baby because I'm not a woman. You know, I was very defensive back in the day because I felt confident that we're gonna nurture this baby and she's gonna get fed and I'm gonna change her diapers. And why are you assuming that we're holding it for the mom who's clearly in the restroom? You know, like, where's the mom? Well, you know, a lot of those.
- [63:27]
Heather McDonald
And did your daughter ever, like, how did that come as she got older? Did you ever feel like you needed to have a strong woman in her life or.
- [63:37]
Dan Bukatinsky
Well, I did. You know, we have a lot of female friends, a lot around the house, that godmothers. And my sister is an important, really important to me. She lives on the east coast, but Don's got two sisters on the west coast. And we had a nanny who has been in our lives since the kids were born and is still in their lives and is the closest woman to my kids in our family. That in addition to all of our friends and sisters who were female figures in their lives, that was really important. And guys, straight guys in their lives that could actually throw a ball. I do a pretty good job, but not nearly what others could do. You know, when Jonah. I have a clearly straight 6 foot 3 inch, 18 year old son who is nothing like me. Yeah, nothing like me.
- [64:31]
Heather McDonald
When did he come out straight.
- [64:34]
Dan Bukatinsky
When did he come out straight? When he was born. I knew the minute in diapers. There's another chapter in my book called Bam Bam. I used to call Jonah Bam Bam. Cause I don't know if you know the show, like Flynn St. He would walk, he would bound down the hallway like a diaper in a way that just made me feel like he was gonna steal my lunch money. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, this guy's gonna bully me. I can just tell. And he's only two. I loved him to death. And we were. He was so cuddly and so amazing, but he was like that kid, there's no way. And you know, it was just clear. It was clear pretty early on when he was biting his toast into the shape of a revolver, that I was like, this is not something I ever did.
- [65:11]
Heather McDonald
I had. I had a joke about act that, you know, you would study this thing. Like, you know, introduce your kids to, you know, Barbies or whatever. And. And I'm like, yeah, but if you have a certain kind of boy, they will beat the shit out of each other with the Barbies. And they will make a chicken. A gun. They'll make a chicken. They'll make a gun out of a chicken nugget. Like, I remember sometimes there would be chicken nuggets that had a shape of a gun.
- [65:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah. And they'd get so excited because they notice it.
- [65:36]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, they would notice it.
- [65:37]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's in the DNA. You can't teach that. There's no way we were teaching that.
- [65:41]
Heather McDonald
My son was driving. We were going out to La Quinta and there was a train going by. And I go, you know, that was always so interesting that you and your brother as little kids, Thomas and the train, we're so into trains. I'm like, my daughter that I raised, she's not my biological daughter, she's my stepdaughter. She wasn't into the trains. No, I wasn't into the trains. Why a train?
- [66:03]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's nature. The nature nurture thing, I can tell you right now. Cause I've had a 21 year, 22 year experiment. It's nature. 100% nurture. Zero in. In the battle. Maybe not zero. Nurture is important, but nature is. There's so much about my kids that is so. That it was predetermined by the DNA of their birth mom and by generations before them.
- [66:27]
Heather McDonald
Right?
- [66:28]
Dan Bukatinsky
And you know, we, we. Our kids are our kids. And I can't imagine anyone else being our kids. And obviously we love Them?
- [66:34]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [66:35]
Dan Bukatinsky
As though they. As though I birthed them out of my own loins, but I don't recognize myself in my kids. There's not a quality or a gesture or a look in their eye that reminds me of anything in my lineage. And same with Don. They're really unique individuals, by the way. Every kid is. That's probably the biggest lesson I learned. You know, the control and power we think we have over our kids. When they're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, what they're gonna eat, what you want them to eat, what you want them to be, where you want them to go to, what you want them to be interested in. All this stuff that we want for them is none of our business. And as it turns out, they are who they are and are going to emerge as that regardless. No much. How much Julie Andrews we played in our house. My kid was going to eventually play, you know, whatever. The video games.
- [67:29]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, yeah.
- [67:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
You know.
- [67:30]
Heather McDonald
You know what's also interesting, as they get older and I've said this and then I saw, like, someone do a video, like, TikTok on it or whatever is they're not thinking about you the way we think about them.
- [67:43]
Dan Bukatinsky
No.
- [67:44]
Heather McDonald
And they're never going to. And I have to thank God I have a good memory. And I loved my parents very much and wanted them to be happy. I didn't like when they fought. They have passed and everything, but when I was in college, I remember they were realtors. And my dad, like, sends me this big package of, like, photos. And so I'm only at sc, like, they're living in Woodland Hills. And he sends me the flyer of their latest listing, like, isn't this great? You know? And I was like, and what a bitch, because the sales of this house are paying for my usc. But I was kind of like, why
- [68:20]
Dan Bukatinsky
are you sending me.
- [68:20]
Heather McDonald
Why are you sending me your real estate?
- [68:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
Like, isn't that so funny?
- [68:25]
Heather McDonald
And I'm just like, oh, my God. And sometimes I just always have to remind myself that, like, they are not going. God, I hope Mom's having a really great day today.
- [68:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
They take us for granted. And by the way, oddly enough, it feels like absolute shit to be taken for granted. You so want them to want to be with you and see you and know how your day was and be proud of you when you do things that you want them to be proud of, but they really, you know, that you have raised them to feel completely comfortable and safe because they take you for granted.
- [68:55]
Heather McDonald
Exactly. That's what they say. They say, like, it's when your kids behaves badly with you, but then is on better behavior with even grandma or somebody else. It's like, because they are so comfortable with you that if they feel like a meltdown's coming, they can have a meltdown.
- [69:10]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes, that's right. That's right. I mean, believe me, my kids treat me like absolute dirt most of the time. And I wonder why I don't have an HR office at my house so that I could file a claim almost every day. I would. Because the ways in which I allow them to talk to me is not really something that would fly in the real world, but that I always have to remember. Healthy attachment. Healthy attachment. Healthy attachment. Like. Cause I read early on that their ability to feel like they can get angry and let you know how they feel or tell you to get out of their room or tell you that they hate you because you know that they don't. The freedom to tell you that they hate you is not something that you need to squeeze out of them and say, don't ever speak to me like that again. It's like, it's actually a sign that they feel safe, that they know that despite how they're feeling and what they're saying to you, that they. They know you'll never leave them.
- [70:05]
Heather McDonald
They. I saw this thing that they said. Imagine if you were to tell someone who's 25, hey, this person's going to pay for the rest of your. For the next 20 years. They're going to pay for your room, your board, your food. All you have to do is return their call and be nice to them. Wouldn't you do it? And everyone's like, yeah. And they're like, well, that was your parents.
- [70:23]
Dan Bukatinsky
100%. 100%. Like, how do you think all this is happening? Do you not think that this is. It just appears, you know? And I'm such a sucker. Like, I'm making my. I mean, Jonah's 18. He can make his own breakfast 100%. But I. I love. For whatever reason, I love making breakfast.
- [70:40]
Heather McDonald
I.
- [70:40]
Dan Bukatinsky
And I. And I have to own it. For a long time. I was like, oh, my God, the thanks I get. Like, I was up early making pancakes. Who asked me to make pancakes? Nobody. Who loves making pancakes. Me. I was doing it for me, and I continue to do it for me.
- [70:55]
Heather McDonald
And there's a joy that comes out of a giant man that you raised being fucking hungry.
- [71:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
I know.
- [71:01]
Heather McDonald
And eating.
- [71:01]
Dan Bukatinsky
I agree with you. I totally agree with you. Cause I don't get it in other ways. With him, although I took him fishing this weekend. And that should have been a documentary in and of itself. But, I mean, honestly, I'm so, like, literally, I didn't want to touch the bait. It was so disgusting. Like, giant defrosted squid. And I didn't have gloves, so I was using. We were near a park, and so. You know those dispensers that give you doggy bags? Out of the dispenser, I was using two doggy bags around my hands, trying to manipulate this squid onto a hook. It was not a pretty picture.
- [71:37]
Heather McDonald
Do they know. Growing up, did they, like, care that you guys were a big deal in Hollywood or.
- [71:44]
Dan Bukatinsky
I think that they. They're really not showbiz kids in any, like, They. I think they like the perks. Yeah, they like the perks. They love meeting Lisa. They call her Aunt Lisa.
- [71:53]
Heather McDonald
Would you take them to, like, the kid movie premieres and stuff like that?
- [71:55]
Dan Bukatinsky
I did take them to some kid movie premieres along the way, although they didn't. They were fine. They didn't really. My daughter doesn't love being photographed. My son, as it turns out now, as he's older, kind of likes a little bit of the glamour. Yeah. I took him onto a red carpet for the account the Accountant to Ben Affleck's movie last year, and he had the time of his life. He was on that red carpet, and they were yelling, jonah, Jonah, do you ever smile? And he said, nope. And everyone laughed, and I posted it on Instagram, and he got such a kick out of it. So he's got a little bit of a showman inside of him. My daughter is not that into it. And they won't watch anything that I'm in. I mean, they watched me in one episode of Superstore 25 times. I don't know why they thought it was so funny, but. But not an episode of Scandal. Not an episode of. I think they liked the Baker and the Beauty. I did. I did a series.
- [72:47]
Heather McDonald
They're not watching the Comeback.
- [72:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
They're not watching. They came to the Comeback premiere with me, which was a little bit of a fight, but I really. It meant a lot to me, and I told them, you're going to be doing this for me, and I would love if you join me. And they did. And the Comeback's not their cup of tea.
- [73:00]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [73:01]
Dan Bukatinsky
But they came for me, and I. And I was so. Here's the truth of it. I'm such a softie. Everything makes me cry. Everything makes me cry.
- [73:09]
Heather McDonald
Me, too.
- [73:09]
Dan Bukatinsky
We stepped onto the red carpet when the car arrived and my publicist met me and I saw my kids and my husband standing there waiting for me to join them for the photo and I burst into tears and I had to step away and get myself together and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening right now with all these cameras like grabbing me. And I, I got my act together. I got back on there and my daughter put her arm around me and I felt her rubbing my back to soothe me from my stress and I almost lost it again. It was so sweet. It was so sweet. They were, they were so supportive.
- [73:45]
Heather McDonald
Do you feel like in the gay community like that you guys being that you're kind of like the big brothers to maybe like younger gay couples that are thinking about like having kids or whatever have you. Do you think there's more of a shift going towards parenthood or do you think just like, just like straight couples and women a lot are choosing. I don't wanna, I don't have to be a parent. Like it was such like a, it was such a positive thing and it was, I feel like it was like pushed on them the way it was pushed on like, like my mom being like, I got the, I got it at the church. You're gonna be married before you're 30. Like the date. Isn't that nice?
- [74:17]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [74:18]
Heather McDonald
And I was like, oh, I guess that is nice. I guess I will be married two weeks before I'm 30. Like how weird now. Like who cares if I got married at 30, married at all?
- [74:26]
Dan Bukatinsky
Good for you that you waited that long. My God.
- [74:28]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [74:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
Do you think there was a. I have noticed a shift. I'm actually noticing a little bit of a bounce back at this point because I'm old enough now that we were a little bit ahead of the curve. There were a few guys ahead of us that were real role models to us. Yeah, we were sort of the role models to many. Yeah. It is now part of every conversation. There are so many young gay guys in their 20s that know they want marriage and a baby as part of, of the package right up front. There are so many more 25 to 30 year old gay guys who are looking for partners for the purposes of marriage and children in a way that did not happen when I was 25, 100%. And now there's even a little bit of a shift back a little bit where it's like, I'm 25, but I kind of don't wanna feel pressured just cause I'm a gay guy who may wanna Find my guy. Why do I have to get married and why do I have to have kids? You don't.
- [75:22]
Heather McDonald
Right. Like, I kinda remember that, you know, like the, the glory of like the greatest thing about two gay guys is double income, no kids.
- [75:30]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [75:31]
Heather McDonald
You're smart, you're successful, you could have this great life.
- [75:34]
Dan Bukatinsky
Sounds dreamy.
- [75:35]
Heather McDonald
And travel around. You can have a third and not get them pregnant. Something that a straight couple can't really fuck around with. Like a third dude.
- [75:44]
Dan Bukatinsky
Or bring someone else.
- [75:46]
Heather McDonald
Or you can have your fun and no one's getting pregnant. No. Like the previous problem about heterosexual cheating.
- [75:54]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [75:54]
Heather McDonald
Is that the wife could get pregnant with someone else's baby or this guy could get a baby. So I'm like, it is kind of a beautiful thing if it, you know, so. But then you throw in kids and family and so I'm like, oh, I wonder if more like, more gay guys aren't like, hey, you know, this lifestyle that became like chic and cool before gay marriage was legal. Like, this is pretty good over here.
- [76:17]
Dan Bukatinsky
Well, you know, just, it's all age related. Like I grew up at a time and I was coming out of the closet at a time that was just post the AIDS crisis. And so the notion of what it means to be gay and say you're gay and even sex and promiscuity, it was very hard to be sex positive when I was coming out because we were on the tail end of a horrible, horrible plague that was that. That was blamed on sex positivity and promiscuity. And so your approach to sexuality was. My approach to sexuality was completely hindered by having been 15 to 25 during that decade. Younger people now and the last five, six years of so much sex positivity and thankfully on the shoulders of those who have made AIDS something that is treatable and is, you know, there are drugs now that people can take so that it's not as much of a threat.
- [77:13]
Heather McDonald
Right.
- [77:13]
Dan Bukatinsky
Of course, the notion of that being something that can liberate a gay man from having to pick one partner or even a couple from having to not have an open relationship and have AIDS be the reason why they don't want to go that route or STDs. The fact that there is a move these days with young people towards sex positivity allows for people to make decisions that are more about, I want to enjoy my partner and enjoy sexuality and enjoy freedom. I don't know if I want to bring a child onto the planet, but there was a decade in there where the fact that it was possible and that gay marriage was possible and that adopting and surrogacy and having children and all these what people call heteronormative conventions were possible for young gay kids who always thought of it as not even a possibility.
- [78:02]
Heather McDonald
Right. Or that would be the sad thing of when a child came out where the mother would be like, I guess I'll never be a grandma.
- [78:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
I'll never be a Grandma. And that's 100%.
- [78:10]
Heather McDonald
There's probably a lot of pressure on gays that don't have kids. And then they're like, well, all your friends. All your gay friends are. I have two, you know, two people.
- [78:18]
Dan Bukatinsky
Grandparents want their gay kids to give them grandkids.
- [78:21]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [78:22]
Dan Bukatinsky
100%.
- [78:23]
Heather McDonald
Everybody wants to be a grandparent.
- [78:24]
Dan Bukatinsky
We live in a different time now. And hopefully, like, ultimately, I think you only should be a parent if that's something that you really, really want.
- [78:31]
Heather McDonald
And I think it's a. It's a gift to not want it.
- [78:33]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's a gift to not want it. And to. And to have done it and not be able to take it back is really unfair.
- [78:39]
Heather McDonald
Yeah.
- [78:41]
Dan Bukatinsky
You know, I love my kids with everything, and I love that I became a parent.
- [78:45]
Heather McDonald
I'm sure with all your funny stories and your book, you must have wanted to be. This could be a show. I mean, your situation. I mean, I'm sure you've gone down.
- [78:56]
Dan Bukatinsky
I've tried to adapt. Yeah. Yeah. My book was optioned a couple of times. Just like, little stories within it. Cause it's a series of stories. Ways to sort of tell this story in multiple ways for television. Yeah, I've gone down that path.
- [79:11]
Heather McDonald
And I mean, visually, it's just so easy to see. Like, I literally can just. I see the kids.
- [79:16]
Dan Bukatinsky
I agree with you.
- [79:16]
Heather McDonald
I see the da, da, da, da. I see the boy. I see the boy.
- [79:19]
Dan Bukatinsky
I had one that got very close very recently, that took three years to develop. And it was really about Don and I. Don and me raising our teenage daughter and then her relationship with the birth mom and how that gets integrated into the life of an adopted kid. I'd never seen that on television before. And I wrote a pilot that I was really proud of, and. And it went down the path for three years, different incarnations of it, and then never happened.
- [79:50]
Heather McDonald
I had a friend who was adopted, and she. She kind of had a famous story. Sorry, finished.
- [79:54]
Dan Bukatinsky
No, no, no. I'm saying it didn't happen. And it was painful. It's. It's hard when you. When you tell a story that personal that you care that much about it and then it doesn't wind up a show.
- [80:03]
Heather McDonald
I mean, and that's. There's so many interesting elements, like you said, that haven't been played out. The adoptive child, the birth mother, the gay couple, the kid. That's not like the gay couple like has its own thing. But years ago I had a friend and she found out she was adopted, didn't know for a big part of her life, found out she was adopted, found the adoptive parents who actually gave her up her adoption and then did get married and had two more and were still together and then found them and brought them out to la. And it was a little bit like a modern day Beverly Hillbilly type of thing with adoption and then her being in Hollywood and I thought it was the freshest fish out of water kind of story and we went down the hole of pitching it, didn't go either. But I still think that is just,
- [80:53]
Dan Bukatinsky
you know, and it takes stigma and
- [80:54]
Heather McDonald
all that away from like the more that we see in media, the more it's like, this isn't a weird thing.
- [81:00]
Dan Bukatinsky
And also talk about the trauma of it there. Listen, no matter how you slice it, no matter how much love there is moving both ways, the love that it takes for someone to sacrifice their baby and want to find a family to raise it and the love that that family gives to that child no matter what, no matter what, there are feelings attached to all of it. When you meet your birth mom and then you see that years later may, maybe she got pregnant too early in her life and she wasn't settled and she couldn't possibly have had the means emotionally, maturity wise financially at that time. And then 10 years later she was able to do it and then she had kids of her own, but the kids who were placed in an adoption plan 10 years earlier meet them and are like, oh, so you could do it now but you couldn't do it then. Like you were willing to just. And no matter what, there are always feelings that have to be. And I always feel like being able to dramatize that, find the humor in that and also find the humanity in that. And how do we talk about it so that there's no shame involved and that no one's getting their feelings hurt. Yes, it's true, all that love does exist and yes, you were loved and yes you were wanted. But yes, it must really hurt when you think about what it must feel like to know the facts that you were part of an adoption plan.
- [82:20]
Heather McDonald
And speaking of that, as a stepmother who, you know, we had her right when she was born, and we did share with the mother, and there's a whole juicy story that I've talked about that in my books and on my podcast and patreon, but she's 26 now and doing great. And then, you know, and then there comes a time where, you know, I'm raised. We're raising her full time, you know, as. And she's always called me mom since she was like, you know, could say the words and people would always be so shy. Did she call your mom? You know, I'm like, yeah. Like, kids want to feel normal. And if everybody else in the house is calling me mom, she's going to call me mom, too. And it doesn't take anything away from the biological mom. Like, she's just a kid. Like, when people are like, we're doing a court order that the kid can't call the new girlfriend mom, I'm like, the kid is four.
- [83:05]
Dan Bukatinsky
Give them a fucking break.
- [83:07]
Heather McDonald
Like, give them a fucking break.
- [83:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
I was so threatened by the idea of referring to the birth mom as mom, because I'm like, oh, I don't want it to be confusing. Like, we're the two parents. We're the parents raising these kids. We're two dads. But we should refer to the birth mom as the birth mom, because that's what she is. And let's be really accurate about it. And your siblings that are your birth siblings, as opposed to. I mean, my daughter is my son's birth sibling, but so are the two twins who live in Wisconsin. They're also birth siblings. And should we use the words. And what words should we use so that we don't make it awkward as the only. The only thing that's awkward is this conversation. There's nothing awkward about it. And when my son started referring to his birth mom, his mom, and it's like, I just got a call from mom. And he loves saying mom, and he loves referring to her as mom. And he loves the fact that he has a mom and she lives in where she lives and he talks to her when he talks to her. And it doesn't take away the fact that we're his dads to take no personal threat away from it. It gives them so much freedom.
- [84:10]
Heather McDonald
And as the adult, I always say you have to be the adult in the situation. And your feelings come last.
- [84:17]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yes.
- [84:18]
Heather McDonald
Because so if you're the dad that who broke up with his wife and the teenage daughters being little bitch and she did missed your brunch date you don't call her and call her. Call her up and say, you're being a little pig Alec Baldwin. Like, you say, you know, you. You go, okay, like, we're gonna make another plan. We're gonna suck up your feelings. Because when she gets to be 23, 24, she's gonna be very proud to say, I'm having brunch with my dad. Yes, she is, because she's gonna have a friend who doesn't have a dad.
- [84:48]
Dan Bukatinsky
Listen.
- [84:49]
Heather McDonald
And so it's like, just give it a minute and just be the consistent thing, and it'll all work out, you know? Cause it's like what I was saying about stepmom. It's like, there's a million videos on TikTok about a guy going to their stepfather and, dad, I changed my name to you. And everyone's crying, but the stepmother. I've joked about this in my act is always like, who's this whore? Vixen?
- [85:11]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [85:11]
Heather McDonald
I'm like, oh, really? You think as a stepmom, this was a fun time to marry, you know, some broken man that got divorced and you took on the three kids, and you're, like, constantly looked at, like, you made it. Like, the stepmom gets absolutely no credit. And my goal in life is to. To change what Disney did to the stepmom, to make it that it is. It isn't.
- [85:34]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's not somebody who had a plan to steal a human from. You know, it's always like a. Like a.
- [85:41]
Heather McDonald
It's like this woman chose to love your dad.
- [85:43]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yeah.
- [85:44]
Heather McDonald
And he had kids. They're being. You know, I mean, granted, there's bad stepdads, there's bad stepmothers, bad biological parents, but, like, just the trajectory of it just always being, like this horrible, negative thing where it's just, like, when you
- [85:57]
Dan Bukatinsky
feel threatened, your first thought. Almost always. I read this in a book. Is the child inside of you reacting? Almost always as a grown adult, when you're feeling the rage and the threat and the need to have the words be right and to tell your kids that first impulse is almost always the child within you who is looking for a parent who's also you to quiet them down. And it's really important to be the parent to the kid inside you who's causing trouble and say, yo, you know what? Take a deep breath. Take a timeout. It's okay. It's gonna be okay. And you parent yourself so that you can parent your kid. Cause otherwise, the kid inside you is parenting your kid, and it's.
- [86:42]
Heather McDonald
That should Be your next book. Parent yourself before you. So you can parent your kid.
- [86:46]
Dan Bukatinsky
So you can parent your kid. Because. And we all do it. We're all victims of it. I always know that when I'm getting threatened in a really big way, I'm like. Like the petulant kid inside of me is getting threatened, and somebody's gonna. Who's gonna parent that kid? It's me. I'm gonna call my mom, who's 86, and ask her to parent the child in me. It's on me to parent the kid who's reacting badly right now and take a time out and deep breath and go into this thing like the grownup you are. So you can be a parent, but it's hard to learn how to parent ourselves. Are you kidding? No one's doing it.
- [87:18]
Heather McDonald
I have so enjoyed talking to you, and I love. And I remember your book. Like, I forgot that you. I remember I had that book. And I forgot that you were the author of does this Baby Make Me Look Straight.
- [87:29]
Dan Bukatinsky
Yep.
- [87:30]
Heather McDonald
Such a great title and so funny.
- [87:31]
Dan Bukatinsky
The answer's no, by the way.
- [87:33]
Heather McDonald
And where. Where can they follow you?
- [87:37]
Dan Bukatinsky
Oh, follow me on Instagram, Dan Bukatinski.
- [87:39]
Heather McDonald
I have it right here.
- [87:40]
Dan Bukatinsky
I think all my social is just basically my name.
- [87:42]
Heather McDonald
And they can still get the book.
- [87:44]
Dan Bukatinsky
The book is on Audible. I read it. I recommend that way just because they're sort of written as fun stories to be told. So you may as well have me read them to you or on Amazon.
- [87:55]
Heather McDonald
And then, of course, the Comeback is every Sunday on hbo. And if you've not seen it, I'm going to go back and watch season one and two because I love it so much. I can't get enough. But it's just so brilliant.
- [88:08]
Dan Bukatinsky
And as of tomorrow, this movie I did called the Highest Stakes is a Paramount movie that we did in Bulgaria exactly a year ago. It's the wildest ride. Seth Green and Kevin Dillon and myself. And it's a great cast.
- [88:23]
Heather McDonald
So it's a comedy.
- [88:24]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's a. It is a. The only way I can describe it is Willy Wonka meets the Shining. It is a dark comedic poker movie. Oh, that's also a wild ride. It's a wild ride.
- [88:37]
Heather McDonald
And what's it called again?
- [88:37]
Dan Bukatinsky
It's called the Highest Stakes on Paramount. On Paramount. You can probably. You can download it from Paramount as of tomorrow. Tonight's the premiere.
- [88:45]
Heather McDonald
That is so awesome. Congratulations.
- [88:47]
Dan Bukatinsky
Thank you. Thank you.
- [88:47]
Heather McDonald
I had the best time. Thank you for coming.
- [88:49]
Dan Bukatinsky
Thank you for having me. I could talk to you forever.
- [88:50]
Heather McDonald
I know I'm gonna hit you up, you're gonna come back and we'll do like Hot Topics or some light gossipy stuff now that we know your whole life story. Thank you, everyone. All right, you guys. And you know the juiciest stuff when you're like, I wonder how Heather feels about this or why isn't Heather mentioning this juicy thing about these people in her life? I do. It will be on Patreon, but only on Patreon. So you go to heathermcdall.net and you can listen. If you're new, there's well over 1100 episodes, always commercial free, and all the juiciest stuff. And it's every Friday as well as bonus episodes over there. So check it out. Thank you.
- [89:27]
Dan Bukatinsky
Heathermcdall.net Bush Light is as cold and smooth as a mountain stream. Sounds refreshing, doesn't it? Head for the mountains of Busch. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch Busch Light Beer St. Louis, Missouri Get a jump on
- [89:45]
Heather McDonald
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