Nick Viall on Vanderpump, Blake vs. Justin and The Bachelor Now

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Nick Viall on Vanderpump, Blake vs. Justin and The Bachelor Now"

Introduction

In this episode of Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald, comedian and host Heather McDonald sits down with Nick Viall, known for his stint as a contestant on The Bachelor and his podcast The Viall Files. The discussion delves deep into the intricate dramas surrounding reality TV personalities, focusing on Vanderpump Rules, the tumultuous relationship between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, and the current state of The Bachelor franchise.

1. Vanderpump Rules Controversies

Heather and Nick begin by reminiscing about their longstanding friendship and shared experiences at various Hollywood parties, including those hosted by Lisa Vanderpump. They address recent controversies involving James Kennedy, a former Vanderpump Rules cast member.

• James Kennedy's Legal Troubles:
  • Heather McDonald [05:54]: "After the party, he was arrested for domestic violence. However, they have dropped the charges. And he and his girlfriend have since broken up."
  • Nick Viall [04:49]: "He performed at Coachella. He really had separated himself and built and established a legitimate career outside of just being a cast member on reality TV."

Heather expresses disappointment over James returning to DJing shows in Las Vegas despite his past allegations, questioning the ethics of such decisions.

• Lisa Vanderpump's Handling:
  • Nick Viall [09:04]: "I think Lisa Vanderpump is an absolute. Like, you know, I think she'd be. She should be ashamed of herself for covering James all these years."

2. Jax Taylor's Sobriety Journey

The conversation shifts to Jax Taylor, another prominent figure from Vanderpump Rules, highlighting his personal growth and sobriety.

• Nick Viall [06:34]: "He really couldn't do cocaine without drinking. So with getting rid of the cocaine, he also wants to get rid of the drinking."

Heather commends Jax for his efforts to overcome substance abuse, emphasizing the positive changes he’s making in his life.

3. Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively's Fallout

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the fallout between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, exploring the allegations and the ensuing smear campaigns.

• Allegations Against Justin Baldoni:
  • Nick Viall [09:55]: "He is an absolute piece of shit."
  • Heather McDonald [37:46]: "I don't believe he sexually harassed her. I don't think the phone, the sexy voicemail was him having a sexy voice returning a text that she left..."

Heather shares her skepticism regarding the allegations, critiquing the public narrative and the involvement of Justin’s team in potentially orchestrating a character assassination.

• Smear Campaigns and Social Media Manipulation:
  • Nick Viall [50:57]: "He does exist. I know people who have taken meetings with this guy."
  • Nick Viall [53:44]: "He's the person who seems to be like, running the social media manipulation."

They discuss the possibility of coordinated efforts to manipulate public opinion through social media, questioning the authenticity of the narratives presented against Justin.

4. Reality TV Dynamics and Fabricated Storylines

Heather and Nick explore the lengths reality TV shows go to maintain viewer interest, often fabricating or exaggerating personal dramas.

• Potomac's Juicy Storylines:
  • Heather McDonald [26:15]: "This is just on Sunday. So then all the girls have like a lot of, like, they laugh and stuff and have a lot of fun."

They dissect storylines from shows like Potomac, highlighting how personal conflicts and fabricated relationships are used to boost ratings.

5. Alex Cooper and Alix Earle Podcast Drama

The duo analyzes the recent fallout between podcast hosts Alex Cooper and Alix Earle, speculating on the reasons behind their professional split.

• Nick Viall [76:03]: "So this is what I think happened. And I think Alix Earle is probably like, okay, like, you know..."

They suggest that differences in podcasting passion and professionalism led to the end of their collaboration, rather than any personal vendetta.

6. The Bachelor Franchise Evolution

Heather and Nick critique the current state of The Bachelor, noting a decline in quality and increased internal drama.

• Nick Viall [87:34]: "Love island and then come back and watch the Bachelor and be like, I'm not as entertained, right?"
• Heather McDonald [89:54]: "Helped the show is like irresponsible because it's the same verbiage. They never really updated the move."

They express concerns over the franchise's inability to innovate, leading to viewer disinterest and internal conflicts among production staff.

7. Celebrity Look Transformations and Public Perception

The hosts touch upon how celebrities like Millie Bobby Brown and Kylie Jenner face scrutiny over their physical appearances and style changes.

• Heather McDonald [67:20]: "She still looks really attractive, but I don't think her look just looks mature. She still looks very attractive. But to me she does look unrecognizable."

They discuss the public's obsession with celebrity appearances and the impact of media narratives on personal image.

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Heather McDonald and Nick Viall offer a candid and critical perspective on the intertwining of personal lives and professional personas in the realm of reality TV and Hollywood. They emphasize the importance of authenticity, the dangers of orchestrated smear campaigns, and the need for meaningful evolution in long-standing TV franchises like The Bachelor. Their insightful commentary provides listeners with a deeper understanding of the complexities behind the glitz and glamour of celebrity culture.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Heather McDonald [05:54]: "After the party, he was arrested for domestic violence. However, they have dropped the charges."
• Nick Viall [09:55]: "He is an absolute piece of shit."
• Nick Viall [50:57]: "He does exist. I know people who have taken meetings with this guy."
• Nick Viall [87:34]: "Love island and then come back and watch the Bachelor and be like, I'm not as entertained, right?"

Key Takeaways:

• The episode provides an in-depth analysis of recent controversies in reality TV, particularly focusing on Vanderpump Rules and the personal disputes involving cast members.
• Heather and Nick highlight the potential manipulation of public opinion through organized smear campaigns on social media.
• They critique the stagnation and internal issues within The Bachelor franchise, suggesting a need for revitalization.
• The discussion extends to broader celebrity culture, examining how public perception is shaped by media narratives and social scrutiny.

For those interested in the behind-the-scenes drama of reality TV and Hollywood, this episode offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the latest scandals and their implications.

Transcript

[Heather McDonald]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Heather McDonald]

Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested. This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by booking.com so I love using booking.com you know, I travel a lot, but I travel doing different things and booking.com has a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that Booking.com has something for everyone. No matter who you are. Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah, Heather McDonald has got the juices. Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life. Mr. Sigmund serial data and cereal sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in. Listen up.

[Nick Viall]

Woo woo.

[Heather McDonald]

Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. We are going to get into it because I have a big podcaster himself. He is a husband, a loving father, a former bachelor and host of the Viall Files. Nick Viall.

[Nick Viall]

You over emphasized that you Am I.

[Heather McDonald]

Saying it wrong or right?

[Nick Viall]

No, you said it right.

[Heather McDonald]

But like Viall Viall.

[Nick Viall]

I don't emphasize it.

[Heather McDonald]

Vile Files.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's fine.

[Heather McDonald]

Vial Files. We've known each other for a really long time.

[Nick Viall]

I was thinking about that so long.

[Heather McDonald]

And when we go to those little parties we do seek each other out and it is fun to like have a couple snarky bullshit moments.

[Nick Viall]

It is fun. I will say to your audience Heather is like I'm actually a bit of an introvert when I go to these parties. Natalie's definitely like my like helps me out and Heather makes it. Every time I see Heather it's like oh my God, thank God Heather's here because Heather always comes up to us. She's always incredibly approachable. She's full of smiles. It really, like. It's really always great to see you. We don't see each other all that much, but it's always, like, at some.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, Us Weekly or, like, reality TV party at the Kathy Hilton Christmas party.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, my God. The Kathy Hilton Christmas party. Heather's always, like. She's always very welcoming and great.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes, I would love to hear. By the way, that party brought a lot of controversy because that was when.

[Nick Viall]

That was the James.

[Heather McDonald]

That was the dj James Kennedy. And I just saw he's back. He's got a show in, like, a week. I hate that in Vegas. You hate that for him?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, I think he's terrible.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, yeah, she did break up with him.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, listen, I think it was one of those things. Like, I talked to him that night. I got to know James prior to him.

[Heather McDonald]

Just remind you people, after the party, he was arrested for domestic violence. However, they have dropped the charges. And he and his girlfriend have since broken up.

[Nick Viall]

Yes. The alleged incident was that he picked her up and threw her across the room.

[Heather McDonald]

And she's a very thin, little, cute thing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And then when she, like, put out her statement, it was very carefully worded, like, I was never hurt. You know, it wasn't like that didn't happen or like, it wasn't like I wasn't thrown up or throw hair picked up. But I also, like, for. I. You know, for me, it was more. I had gotten to know James since I started watching Vanderpump. Like, most, you know, not like a lot of people. I started with Scandal and got to know some of the cast, and I work with Katie Maloney and. And things like that. And James seemed like a nice guy. And we got to know Ally and, you know, there was always, like, these hints of, you know, rumors about, like, James behavior in the past and not being, like, a Vanderpump historian at the time or having watched old episodes, I didn't know much about it.

[Heather McDonald]

And then, like, with the Kristen Doute.

[Nick Viall]

With the Kristen Doute stuff and who.

[Heather McDonald]

He dated prior to Ally and. And there was stuff with Rachel Raquel and. But every time I would see him at parties and stuff, he was a total delight. And he was total delight. And I'd seen him just previously with her at the ball, the Vanderpump Dog Ball, and then saw him there and, you know, he was a little. What I didn't realize at the time, I was with my sister. She was my plus one. And he told us about all the stuff that he had going on. And this is just. They just found out that this cast, he's not coming back, and he's not part of the Valley, and he's not coming back to the Vanderpump. So I was like, how are you feeling? You should be so grateful. You're one of the few people that has a full blown other career set.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, like, really made it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And he was like, oh, my God, I've got all these shows in the works. And I got da da da da da da. And he was, you know, listing all the stuff he had going on, which I was like, great. My sister thought it was a little braggadocious. I did not. I'm like, you got fired from a job you had for 10 years. You want to build your. It's pretty big of a deal, you know, Like, I get how this can be pretty devastating.

[Nick Viall]

That night that he got arrested, I was talking. Me and Nally and Allie and James were talking, and I was saying to him, I'm like, man, compared to all your cast, you should be really proud of what you've been able to do. Like, holy cow. That's really.

[Heather McDonald]

That's what I'm saying.

[Nick Viall]

Really something, man. He performed at Coachella. He really had separated himself and built and established a legitimate career outside of just being a cast member on reality tv and, like, and I love the music.

[Heather McDonald]

And he was like, you know, he's been looking good, buffed out and grown up. And did I think he was drinking that night? Yeah, I thought he was having drinks. I wasn't looking at his drink or anything. I didn't know where people are with California sobriety or what works and what doesn't. But then later on when this all happened, my sister said, you know, about an hour after we had a conversation with him, he came back up to us, but someone started talking to me. And then he went and told her all the same stuff he had told me. Told us just together an hour prior.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, he's blacked out.

[Heather McDonald]

So she was like, you know, my sister's a DUI defense attorney. So she was like, yeah, he was, in her opinion, which is not a big deal. We're at a Christmas party. It's not a big deal to have drinks. Everyone's doing Ubers. It's not a big deal. But then to hear that that incident happened, you're like. And whatever Allie decided, I think sometimes I think people, if they're able to feel like they can freely get away from this person, it is their decision to go. You know what? I don't want to go through this. I don't want to go through any kind of trial. I don't want to be known as the girl that was, you know, abused or whatever. So I respect whatever. Whatever she said. And the police and prosecutors and everybody, they have all the evidence. We don't to accept that this is what it is. But he is back, and he's doing another DJ show.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, I couldn't agree more about Ali. I don't know what it's like to be in her position. I empathize completely. It's never easy to come forward, especially for public figures, because regardless of what you think about them, he has a fan base. He has an audience. He has millions of followers. Like, it can be brutal coming forward. I'm just so over the whole. I don't give a shit if James Kennedy was drunk that night or not drinking or drinking. Right? I don't give a fuck. You know? And then I'm just so tired of this narrative that, oh, he has a drinking problem. No, there's a lot of people have drinking problems, and they don't. Like, they're not physically violent or abusive or they don't have a reputation or a checkered past with all of their exes that they've done, allegedly, a variety of things where they've, you know, were physically aggressive and, like, there's clearly a pattern. And since his arrest, I had talked more with Kristen Doute, and, like, I. I feel comfortable saying he's an absolute piece of shit.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And I think Lisa Vanderpump is an absolute. Like, you know, I think she'd be. She should be ashamed of herself for covering James all these years. And I think the way she has handled this and her statement talking. She, like, came out with a statement afterwards. First she said nothing, and then she finally said something, and it was this. Like, I forgot exactly what her statement was, but it was, like, it was. I thought it was really icky and just. I thought it was gross. I mean, she's clearly. You know, I've met Lisa once when I. Like, when I did her podcast, when she had a podcast long ago, and she was very gracious, and I went to her house, and she gave me the tour of the villa. And, like, as I was leaving, James came in. Like, they're very tight. She's friends with his mom, and I get it, whatever. But she has covered for that guy for far too long, and I think he's a huge piece of Shit, yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And I can see. I totally agree. I mean, it's part of an empire. It's also a mother son kind of a connection. But I mean, he was. Yeah, we could go through it all. But I understand why. Also, the producers are just like, let's make everyone forget this. Because at first when they obviously were gonna break up, I was like, is she gonna go get a job selling goat cheese balls Ally and get on the new cast? And then I thought, no, the producers don't want us to remember anything about this because this is dark. This isn't fun. This isn't, you know, even juicy, like fucking your girlfriend's best friend scandal. This is. There's nothing juicy about it. We don't want to see it. And it's reared its ugly domestic abuse has reared its head in a few storylines over the years throughout Housewives and Bravo shows. And they know it's just not something they want to discuss. But since we're talking about Vanderpump, Jax Taylor did just come forth and said he is 83 days sober from cocaine and alcohol and that he has had a cocaine issue for 20 years of his life. And he's gone on and off of it and viewers could tell and this and that, but he really couldn't do cocaine without drinking. So with getting rid of the cocaine, he also wants to get rid of the drinking. And he had told me years ago, I'm into smoking pot now. And that chills me out and I'm better and I'm not so crazy. I have heard from many people in the last few years that there were bags of cocaine found and this and stuff with, you know, now they are parents like to make up the whole thing of like, oh my God, someone little kid thinks this is a sugar. I don't know. I'm just saying that would really turn you off to want to hang out with those people, whatever. If that was the case. So it's like. But good for him. Sure that he's. But he got real mad at me recently. Cause I had love on.

[Nick Viall]

He's been mad at me since 2017.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, really? Well, I had. Well, he's another one that I always talk to. He's come on the show, his sister's a juicy scooper. I want to give this guy benefit of the doubt, but I think we all know like, you know who he really is. Very happy for Britney. But anyway, Lala came on the show and she told me what was told. Juicy scoopers, what was really going on with them. And you know, that Britney does everything and all this stuff. And that was the clip that was cut. And it went up and he immediately texted me just like, the.

[Nick Viall]

Oh. He.

[Heather McDonald]

I can't believe you're doing this. And you're a mother and my child's gonna have to see this. And I'm there with my kid every day. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I was like, again, that's rich coming from him. Yeah. But I was like, you know what? My initial thought was this clip is gonna be a problem for Britney. So I was like, done. I'm removing it. Like, I'm removing the clip. I don't wanna cause problems with you and Britney. Brittany reaches out to me and she's like. I mean, it was texted, but I just. In her voice. But she's like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Lola told me what happened.

[Nick Viall]

It's pretty good, right?

[Heather McDonald]

She is telling me you the truth. Ha, ha. Jax is crazy. That is not true. He has not done this. He has not called me. Say that. Because he goes, britney and I talked about this today. And da, da, da. And she was like, that is not true. And I was like, whatever. Again, one clip. One thing is not gonna break or make my career. And if it's gonna cause problems or give me anxiety because I'm gonna run into him at the next thing. I took it down. I'm like, I'm taking it down. That's it. I mean, I hope that they can co pair, and I hope he stays sober, whatever. But I am very happy she's single.

[Nick Viall]

I'm glad she's away from him and happy. You know Jax better than I do. You know when I was the Bachelor. Long time ago.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. What year were you the Bachelor?

[Nick Viall]

I was filmed at the end of 2016. It was airing in the beginning of 2017.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

So I met him when it was airing.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

I was, at that point, engaged. And no one knew about it. Right. So I had to be very careful about who I'm standing next to. And I got invited to some bar opening in San Diego with a friend and Jack's in Brazil. Brittany were there, and they came up to me very graciously. Brittany, you know, and Jax was actually very nice. Right. And I knew who he was like at that. I didn't know much about Vanderpump. I knew who he was. I knew about his reputation. Right. He was very, you know, kind of known as the toxic guy. Right, Right. And so I took a picture with Brittany, and then Jax was like, hey, can I get One, I was like, I'd rather not, man. And because at that time, I'm thinking, I don't need a picture with Jax Taylor as, like. As like the Bachelor at the club with, you know, with Jax Taylor. I'm like, I need to. Like, I'm an engaged man at the time, you know? But no one knows that. Again, the season's filming, and I was like, oh, wow. And he was like, the season was.

[Heather McDonald]

Done filming, but it was airing.

[Nick Viall]

It was airing.

[Heather McDonald]

God.

[Nick Viall]

So no one knew about my relationship status. Obviously, it was being speculated. And I was. I was. You know, at that time, it was like, it would have been like me taking a picture of Tom Sandoval during Scandival. That's how it felt. And I was just like, yeah, no, I'm good.

[Heather McDonald]

I did take a picture with Tom Sandoval during Scandoval. I did, because I knew him. And then somebody said it was at the Jax opening, and I was talking to him, and I was just kind of like, what are you gonna do about this lawsuit, her suing you for this? And we were sort of talking about that. Cause the lawsuit stuff always intrigues me. Right. And she was suing him for spreading the. The photos of the.

[Nick Viall]

Raquel. The thing that's going on.

[Heather McDonald]

Raquel, Yeah, I think it's still going on. And I was like, what? So we talked a little bit about that, which was kind of, you know, juicy, and what his thoughts were. And then someone came up, and they're like, can we get a photo? And I did. And I'm like, you know, hey, again, he's not Harvey Weinstein, and I've taken photos with him before. But of course, there was some little. But in your case, it had more.

[Nick Viall]

To do with, like, my relationship status.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. And the TV show. Like, I think if. Maybe if you would have just said, actually, now that I thought about it, I probably shouldn't be taking photos with anyone, maybe that would have been the better thing to say. But what did you say?

[Nick Viall]

I think it was more like, I just, like, want to be careful about, like, being out at the club or something. I tried to be very nice, but he was not happy.

[Heather McDonald]

He took offense.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, yeah. He went on, like, a bunch of podcasts or, I don't know, did some interviews, talked some shit. And then during Scandival, I was like, oh, maybe I'll have, like, see what Jax is saying. And I went to, like, DM him to see if he wanted to come on and realize I'm blocked. Oh, that was great. Since I Was like the first time I'd ever like even went to his page in seven years.

[Heather McDonald]

But turns out unblocked. I appreciate the art of blocking.

[Nick Viall]

Sure.

[Heather McDonald]

Because I have definitely blocked a lot of people and sometimes I think, oh, I'm kind of over it now and my life is pretty great. Should I let these fuckers see it? And then I look at how many people I've blocked and I'm like, oh, I don't even know where to begin. And I don't want to unblock and have it and then have like the 90% of the weird like bot trolls start up again. So I'm like, whatever. If someone really wants to like reconnect, then they should, whatever, try to text or email me, but who cares? They probably don't care. They're probably over me too.

[Nick Viall]

I have some empathy for Tom Sandoval.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, you do. Let's hear it.

[Nick Viall]

I think Jax Taylor has no moral compass. Like, I don't think he, I don't even know if he knows the difference between right or wrong. Like I'm not a. I can't diagnose him or anything. But like, I don't think he even cares really. I think he just cares about Jax. I think Tom is incredibly self centered and selfish and you know, I'm sure like many of us have narcissistic personalities and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but like Tom has a moral compass. It's different than maybe anyone on this earth, but he does things that he believes are right and wrong. I think a lot of people disagree with what his moral compass is. But I think he really wants to be a good guy. I think that's his desire to not be a piece of shit is somewhere inside Tom Sandoval. And I think Jax Taylor, it doesn't register. And I've just gotten to know him. I was on Special Forces with him.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, Tom Sandoval. You did?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah. I mean I essentially lived with him for a week in a very intense environment, you know, so he's a unique guy, but like he's not evil, he's not bad, and you know, he's not the brightest. And I think my biggest takeaway, spending a week with Tom after Scandival.

[Heather McDonald]

I.

[Nick Viall]

Just was a little confused because I'm like, I spent a week with this guy and I'm like, him and Ariana dated for a decade and she's really smart and Tom is Tom and it's just like, I just don't know how after a decade there was a disconnect. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

I think what it is, is they were not married, but they might as well be. They maybe even more so. An average married couple with no kids. One works at the accounting firm, one works here. Yeah, we have to sell the house. They had it bigger. In his defense and her defense, they were on the show together. They had this whole thing going. She wasn't at the level that she is today because she was kind of in this, like, limbo of, I've got this job where I'm on the show and I'm his girlfriend, but we're not in a great place and, you know. So, yeah, it went on too long. But they also owned the house together, all of it, just like anybody else, where it's like, everyone's like, why didn't you leave? Why didn't you get out? Well, it's fucking hard. It's hard to move a couch, let alone, like, sell your house and end it all. And every time things are bad, you're like, I don't know. And then a couple weeks later, maybe you're like, okay, well, now, that was kind of fun.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know what's true, but on a couple different occasions, when talking about it, like, between him and I, Scandal, like, on Special Forces, I was kind of interrogating him. We were in a Jeep together for, like, an hour. And I kind of, like, did a podcast interview with him in the back of a Jeep. No, I mean, it didn't air or anything like that. And then prior to getting him on my show, when he showed up late.

[Heather McDonald]

And drunk, and that was after Special Forces.

[Nick Viall]

That was after Special Forces. And he just. He did his thing. He is adamant, and I don't know what's true, but I believe that he believes it. That. That narrative that Ariana was not upset about the cheating and she knew. She knew about something between him and Rachel. I don't know what to believe, but I believe, like. But I believe that Tom believes it. You know, this is what I believe.

[Heather McDonald]

There was a reason why she decided to look at his phone when it was handed to her. And so I think that she kind of was like, I don't really care that he's out late and he's doing his band and whatever, because she didn't want to fuck him. So she was kind of like. Even if she did occasionally, I think she was just kind of like, whatever. I don't think she knew about Rachel, Raquel. And I'm gonna say. I'm gonna go to my grave on that. I do not Think she knew.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know what to believe.

[Heather McDonald]

Then when you find out, you look back and you go, you know what? I did have that thought. And I pushed it down. I pushed it down. You know, I pushed it down. I did have those. Everything plays back in your head like a movie. And you're like, how did I not? But I think. No, I mean, she was taking her to think. There was never any real conversation. There was never any time that Rachel Raquel ever said to her, like, you know, all of her. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know if she knew about her. I just. It was just every time he had this conversation, I just remember thinking to myself, he's triggered. He's upset. He's, like, yelling at me.

[Heather McDonald]

But that would be the thing, too, that when you rewrite history, that would be the way that you could forgive yourself, maybe. No, because you could be like, she knew. And we were just riding this out until the season ended. We were on a show together, and they did say. People said they planned things out a little bit and they kept a lot of things private versus other couples. And I think everybody that goes on these shows, whether it's Housewives or whatever, some people lay it on the line completely forget the cameras there. Other people fucking hire a writer to come up with snarky shit in their confessionals. Like, there's all people hire. You know, like, I was just. Just as we're talking about it, I was watching Potomac. Have you watched any of Potomac?

[Nick Viall]

I've popped in. I've heard everyone who watches it says, it's amazing. I want to start watching it, but I've not really got into it yet.

[Heather McDonald]

I'll tell you this. Well, now I'm going to spoil for you, because these were three juicy things that happened on Potomac. Really? Two? Because the other. Well, no, three. One, there was this girl, Mia, who was married to this older guy. She admits that she was like his stripper sugar baby or whatever. They had two kids that now they'd been together a long time. And they break up. And she gets with her old boyfriend and she says, well, we don't know if my younger son is my old boyfriend that I was. Had a. Whatever affair with while I was with the husband, or if it is the husband's, Gordon's. And she's having this conversation while they're filming it where the kid is, like, skateboarding. And I was just like, this is so wrong. Well, turns out the kid is the husband's. And I was like, wait a minute, now, this doesn't make it that badly. But the story was from the other cast members. She always knew that the kid wasn't from an affair. She knew it was the father that the kid knew. So throwing this out was a storyline. It was juicy. It got people talking. How gross about your kid. But she knew the result was gonna be okay. Like if she didn't really know the result, would she have played that game? So she got accused of being a bad mother. She left the show early, the reunion early. Then we have this girl Stacy, who came from qvc and she talks like this and she's like, you're a liar, Mia. And she had this boyfriend named tj and tj, Wait, I want to see if. Wait, just. I want to see if I have this photo of TJ here. I do. Okay, here we go. This is tj and he's coming forth because she had this boyfriend named TJ and she is like, you know, 45, she's getting divorced with a 15 year old daughter or whatever. No, no, her daughter's like 8, so she's like 40 and she's getting divorced. And she's like, I've got a best friend named TJ that I met at qvc. And TJ comes around and she's like, he's very. She's a devout Christian. So we have not had sex. And they're like, have you done everything else? But. And she's like, he's a devout Christian, but he's my best friend. So all the other women are like, what the fuck is this? So, audience starts to talk, is he gay? What's going on? What's going on? So they break up before the reunion. And at the reunion she's like, we're broken up. And that's why he's not here. Well, one of the other guy goes, yeah, we called him. We're like, why aren't you not here? And he goes, because she still owes me money. She was paying me to be her boyfriend.

[Nick Viall]

Is that true?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, this was just on Sunday. So then all the girls.

[Nick Viall]

I really need to start watching.

[Heather McDonald]

All the girls have like a lot of, like, they laugh and stuff and have a lot of fun. And Andy's like falling over. Like, it's pretty entertaining. And so all the girls are like, what the fuck? Now Giselle had this boyfriend that she met on like, he was like a summer house dude who came to visit her twice. I called bullshit on that. But I don't think she was paying him. I think she was like, come on over, act like we're dating. You get to be filmed and kept relative, you know, getting in the zeitgeist a little bit, but whatever. I don't think she ever paid him. So they were like, did you pay him? And she's like, I did not pay him. I did not pay him. I don't know why he's saying this. He was my best friend. Well, guess what? He's not my best friend anymore. And Andy's like, why don't you just call him right now? She's like, I don't know why he's saying, why don't you just call him right now? And she's like, well, I will call him when I have my lawyer. Clearly, she did. Clearly she paid him. And they're like, well, if you better tell the truth, Stacey, because if these zells and, you know, something comes up, it's gonna look really bad. And she just was like. I think she was like, I need to get him on the phone.

[Nick Viall]

She's paying him.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes, she's paying him.

[Nick Viall]

Why would she need to pay him?

[Heather McDonald]

To have a storyline, that's all. She obviously can get a guy, but it's hard to get guys that'll agree to be on camera. And because he was an actor and a QVC host and she knew him from work.

[Nick Viall]

So it's less about her paying him just to have a boyfriend. It's her paying him to be a TV boyfriend, so to speak.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. To have more of a storyline going on and that's less. That's the film with.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, it's still shady.

[Heather McDonald]

It is shady. Cause it's a reality show. But I think it's happening more and more, honestly, because the shows have been around for 20 years, and people study them and they're like, well, what am I gonna do? My husband or ex husband B won't be on it. I don't really want to exploit my kid, so I gotta have something going on. There's Bravo, really.

[Nick Viall]

They squeeze as much juice as they can out of their cast.

[Heather McDonald]

And when their juice is gone, you have to create it. You have to go to concentrate.

[Nick Viall]

No, it's a wild world, that Bravo world, in terms of the relationship between cast and network. And I think what happened, I give him a lot of credit because I couldn't do it.

[Heather McDonald]

I think he was like, okay, great. I'm a Christian. Whatever. We'll play this storyline and this will be fun. I don't think they were a couple at all. And then when he saw all, like, the gay rumors and this guy's fucking annoying, and Whatever. That's when. Then the person. And this happens with real husbands.

[Nick Viall]

Like, you're not paying me enough.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, that's what. And this happens with real husbands, too. Then they start to turn on their wife, and then you start to fight. And so then I think he was pissed. And then maybe she really did promise him 10,000 for the season and she still owed him five or something. And then they broke up. And then she was like. And then she's like, no, I'm not gonna pay you another five or so. But it's probably all verbal, but, I mean, you know, did people care enough about. Now the final story, the real juicy story is Karen Huger, the concubine, got. Yeah. When she was arrested for drunk driving, she said, I am Thomas Jefferson's concubine. And she just got sentenced for two years, one suspended, meaning she has to do one year in prison. She's currently behind bars. Of course she's gonna try to appeal it or get it taken down. What we realized last night is that she could have taken a plea deal again. One of those things, which I would have said to James, too, is right after he got arrested, is you could still deny that it happened, but it would help in the public opinion if right away you go to rehab. Just go right to rehab. Just be like, whatever it is. You know what? I did have drinks that night. I didn't put my hands on anybody or I don't believe. I don't think I was at the level of drunk driving. And I'll fight that. But in the meantime, you know what? Drinking doesn't work for me anymore. I'm going away. Why not? Who can't use 30 days at a nice rehab? So she didn't do that.

[Nick Viall]

She refused to go to rehab.

[Heather McDonald]

She kept acting like it's not a big deal and refused the plea date.

[Nick Viall]

So it was like her fourth or some offense or something.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, now we know it's her fourth. The third one was knocked down to, like, a wet reckless or something, but definitely. And then they have this weird scene where they're like. Since she didn't go to the reunion, they have this setup scene where she's, like, reading a book, and then her older husband comes in and he's like, here's your tea. And she's like, oh, thank you, Ray. So, you know what really happened with the drinking is after my parents died seven years ago, she's 60, okay? So it's like, yeah, your parents died. Would they be fucking hundred if they were still alive? After my parents died, I just, I started to self medicate. Well, then the other girl brings up that she went to a restaurant, another one went to restaurants saying that she day drink all the time. She was an alcoholic for sure. So she's gonna do her prison time. She will get out in the air, probably like eight months, she will be back on the show and. Yeah, but then the other thing is they said that there was somebody else in the car with her because she was always rumored to have a boyfriend. We don't know like, cause she crashed the car and so did someone skedaddle? Did she tell someone to leave?

[Nick Viall]

You would have thought that would have been caught.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. I don't know if that's true.

[Nick Viall]

Where the accident was and things like that. And there's so many cameras.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, she definitely doesn't want to like lose her husband at this point. When you're in prison, your lover doesn't visit you.

[Nick Viall]

But if he was a passenger, like why would he need to.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, was he the passenger or was he actually driving her? They got in the car accident and.

[Nick Viall]

She decided to take her fourth DUI and face jail time for.

[Heather McDonald]

She might have gotten away with so many that she might have thought it would be better that I look like I was driving versus everyone finally knowing that I had an affair. Because Gisele came on my podcast years ago and said she had a blue eyed boyfriend that's her driver. And she's like, so you think, oh.

[Nick Viall]

So this was, this was an alleged boyfriend who she was cheating on.

[Heather McDonald]

Let's say he was driving. Maybe he was a little buzzed too. He hit the car, she was like, go, leave. Because while she was wasted talking to the cops, she was like, I wasn't driving the car. And Ray shows up, he's like, what? So I don't know. I think she's very comfortable with lying. She's obviously an alcoholic and she can never drink again and.

[Nick Viall]

But is she the third Bravo celebrity to be incarcerated?

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, there was Teresa. Jen Shaw is still there, but her sentence keeps getting shut down.

[Nick Viall]

She's gonna be out.

[Heather McDonald]

I think she's with Elizabeth Holmes. One drop and they hang out together and work out. And then for doing any real time. Yeah, I think you're right.

[Nick Viall]

This is the third.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I mean a ton of them have been arrested for different things. Okay, here's a juicy fact that really might surprise you. 66% of men are investing in the stock market compared to just 48% of women. Which is crazy because they found that actually women are better investing because they know exactly what drives them and they have passion and why they think it would be a great investment. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. What I like about Acorns is that it got me investing. I got to see my money grow. And honestly, it's such a great feeling to know that I'm just not continuing to put that off. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com juicyscoop or download the Acorns app to get started. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns paid non client endorsement tier one compensation provided investing involves risk Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] JuiceScoop okay, we all have our favorite childhood memories. Maybe it's you performing in a play or Christmas morning I came across all these VHS tapes of my first time doing stand up also, you know, at the Groundling Sketch Comedy Theater and I want you guys to see it. Well, you're going to because I've got Legacy Box and Legacy Box makes it so easy. You just fill your Legacy box with old VHS tapes or camcorder tapes, pictures. Their team professionally digitizes everything by hand in the USA and you'll get a bath plus your originals on the cloud. That makes it so simple to share, stream and download the memories. Like I am so excited to do this you guys. I'm gonna get such great content out of it and I'm a little scared but kind of excited to see what my first jokes were. Go to legacybox.com juicy to get an incredible 50% off buy today. Send in when you're ready. Go to legacybox.com juicy legacybox.com juicy this episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by booking.com so I love using booking.com you know, I travel a lot, but I travel doing different things. Sometimes I'm by myself, but I bring a couple featured comedians as well. And we need nice hotel rooms that have accommodations. We need a gym, we need the coffee in the room, that type of thing. And then other times I've got my Family. And maybe you're a family with little kids and you're traveling a lot and you want to make sure that they're taken care of, that there's enough for them to do the kind of food they like. Or maybe you want an included meal for breakfast, which makes it so easy because, you know, these kids wake up and they're bouncing around and then they're going to go jump in the hotel pool. All of that can be found. And booking.com has a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that Booking.com has something for everyone, no matter who you are. Booking.com helps you find the stay. That's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah. Okay, let's go a little bit to. It ends with us controversy. The latest is that the New York Times is trying to have the judge drop the fact that he's suing them for defamation, saying we are within the lines of opinion. And so that's where in with that also that this was Daily Mail, so I don't know how exact it was, but that Taylor Swift will have to be deposed, which I would think she would be. So what is your opinion? Because you were. You know, I've seen clips. And you're not a Justin Baldoni fan.

[Nick Viall]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

And tell me where you are with it all now, because a lot.

[Nick Viall]

Where are you?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, when it first came out with the New York Times article, I believed that. Yes, I believe in smear campaigns. I think I've been a victim of smear campaigns. I understand how bots and hate pages work and fake conversations going on. So I kind of was like, oh, wow, this is juicy. I think maybe this did happen because he felt she fucked him over. And then he went and brought up weird interviews where she came off like an a hole. So I did believe it, but I now I definitely am on Team Justin.

[Nick Viall]

Why?

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my God. I've talked about it too many times. There's so much evidence. There's so much ev. Oh, my God. We're not gonna do the whole show. In a nutshell, I don't believe he sexually harassed her. I don't think the phone, the sexy voicemail was him having a sexy voice returning a text that she left at 1:42 in which he was really trying to placate her. I think his efforts were really earnest to put a great movie together. I think he was completely shocked when she Went forward with these sexual harassment things. All the joking and all the things that have come since this supposed incident makes me not believe Ryan Reynolds or her. I think they are. Ryan and Blake, I think, are completely two peas in a pod. I think they're a match made in heaven. I think they, you know, I do think they'll probably stay together forever. I was like, the only way out of it is if she turns it on Ryan. And it's like, he forced me to do this lawsuit. But they're not doing that. So I think they're gonna stick together forever.

[Nick Viall]

And what's their motive for doing all this?

[Heather McDonald]

I think that they wanted the rights to the second film.

[Nick Viall]

Based on what evidence?

[Heather McDonald]

Based on that he has it and she wanted to direct it. And they already had too much problems at the end to go to do another film.

[Nick Viall]

But that is just a theory with no evidence. Just that there is another book out there.

[Heather McDonald]

And we assume that, well, the rewriting of the scenes and all that kind of stuff, he should not have done that. That's a Writer's Guild violation.

[Nick Viall]

Sure, it happens all the time.

[Heather McDonald]

And it was funny.

[Nick Viall]

Kurt Russell famously took over. Well, regardless, yeah, that's all semantics, but like, Kurt Russell famously took over Tombstone. And all the actors on set talk still to this day and rave, they break up like Tombstone and whatever. Like, Kurt Russell wasn't the director, wasn't credited for it. The original director was famously fired and then they hired someone else. But Kurt Russell just took it over and every one of his co stars and actors and Valkyrie.

[Heather McDonald]

So are you saying if she was a man that took over the film?

[Nick Viall]

I'm just saying it happens all the time. It has happened. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. We can debate whether, like, someone stepped on someone's toes, but it's not a crime. And it happens all the time.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, all I can say is I understand what you're saying. And like I said, I was team her from the start. But then I'm like, there's just too many things. I've seen too many interviews, too many clips, too many. And these interviews, I mean, there's just been so many. But you've been a little criticized by some of my people that have come on the show that really have done the hard work. Like, they have read the 195. You've read all the court docs too.

[Nick Viall]

I wouldn't say I've read every single page.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm saying I've absolutely not run the page. I have not Read the book.

[Nick Viall]

I read the first complaint. I read Justin's complaint. First complaint against the New York Times.

[Heather McDonald]

There was something, I think, that you said in one of your shows that you kind of were, you know, not like, saying, like, oh, these content creators, you know, building their cases is not that important, or. I don't know what you said.

[Nick Viall]

I don't notice it either.

[Heather McDonald]

They felt a little, like, brushed off. I just saw, like, a couple. A couple videos of criticism towards you. So I was like, all right, I'm just gonna ask him about it. Because, of course, you have your right to your opinion too. I am always really grateful when people go and spend hours coming or finding. Oh, my God. This is an interesting interview Blake did from five years ago. This is telling of her character. This is a pattern in her behavior. This is her personality. And I don't think her personality is the worst thing in the world or whatever, but it does make sense when it's. When we see it. And that's what Justin was saying. Like, here's evidence of 10 years of her saying things like this. And that's exactly what Justin said happened. And it wasn't him coming in and watching and wanting to see her breastfeed. And it was, you know, it wasn't him being a creep. And I think that's why he's fighting so hard, because it's not true. Just like Lisa Barlow, I'm going the distance on want this one. Someone's accusing me of something I'm not doing. It's too big of a thing in this day and age to just go, okay, I'll let her say this. And I think that's why he's fighting so hard. And that I respect.

[Nick Viall]

I think you're way off.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, now tell me what you think, and then we'll move on.

[Nick Viall]

Well, like I said before, like, my. My biggest opinion is based off the fact that I have met Justin and interviewed Justin a few years ago in preparation for the interview, I read his books and I watched his videos.

[Heather McDonald]

And I will say, when you inter. When you came on my show, you were, like, spent the time to read my books. And I have to say, I have never had someone come that was a guest on my show that was like, by the way, I read both these books, like, in the last night because I was excited to meet you. So I do love that about you. So I believe you. Based on past behavior, I believe you. Okay, so.

[Nick Viall]

And I'm interviewing him, so I want. You know he was promoting his book, right?

[Heather McDonald]

So I watched it yeah, in my guest books too, but a lot of people.

[Nick Viall]

And that's why I'm kind of surprised by your take. Only because, like, I feel like, you know, I don't pay attention that much to like every take that you have. But I feel like, you know, when we get to know each other, similar backgrounds, I am just very like something that I'm very skeptical of is like wolves in sheep's clothing, you know, And I think maybe it's my Catholic background. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

As someone who, like, I grew up very Catholic around priests and nuns, and I personally have had a great experience. Right, so have I. I know a lot of people haven't.

[Heather McDonald]

Correct.

[Nick Viall]

Some of the priests I grew up with that personally I've had a good experience with have since been found out to be terrible human beings. And so I'm just very cautious of people who go out of their way and present themselves as some sort of authority and protector of people who are in vulnerable places. Right. And I think priests in general are like, there's a certain level of authority they have and I think they have to really respect that. Right. And so when I got. When I met Justin, I don't know how many people I've interviewed over the course of the five years. Hundreds. And most people are wonderful. I've met some friends. Some people are just like, oh, they seem fine, whatever. He's the only person I had like a visceral reaction to where I was like, this guy's full of shit. That was my opinion. And I just felt like there's something. I was like, there's something just off about this guy, you know, everything he did in the interview, you know, and again, I get that's just my opinion, you know, Sometimes you just feel something, you know, where it's just like he. And my big thing is like, when reading his books and all these things and I was interviewing, asking him follow up questions, I didn't feel like he could actually, like, elaborate on what he talked about. It was like all he did is kind of rehearse and rehash the things that were in his book.

[Heather McDonald]

And what was the book? Just being a male feminist and like, yeah, it's championing women.

[Nick Viall]

It's all about, like, yeah, it's all about kind of lecturing other men about how you're supposed to act around women and all this, like, virtue signaling about like, how. But he used to be bad in the past and he's done the work and now he knows how to be good. And like. And it's like he's basically selling safety, you know, just like a priest does. He sells, like, I've. I'm. I used to be bad, but now I'm good. And you can trust me and you can, like, you can. You. I'm safe around. You're safe around me. And he's. He's specifically speaking to women who have had a bad experience from a man. Like. And, you know, I'm sure every woman out. Most women I've met, I've had at least one instance or sadly more, where like, some guy just, like, made them feel uncomfortable. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, so when the Blake stuff came out back in, like, when the movie came out and it was the story first broke, that was. All of a sudden Blake and the rest of the cast had separated themselves from Justin. Right? I remember being like, I fucking knew it. You know, that was just my personal. Like, holy shit. I fucking knew it. I didn't know. This is at the point where we didn't know why they had separated.

[Heather McDonald]

We didn't know why.

[Nick Viall]

We didn't know anything.

[Heather McDonald]

I remember that, too. I didn't even make. I didn't even think it was that big of a news story.

[Nick Viall]

I just remember. And I just remember being like, I didn't know what it was about this guy, but, like, the fact that no one's doing press with this guy, I'm like, I fucking knew. You know? Okay, so that's. You know, obviously there's a bias there from my personal experience with him. And then what I thought was so weird is that the days that followed the Internet was, like, universally against Blake and clips we were putting out were just being, like, spammed with negative comments. And I remember being like, wow. Like, I did not expect this. You know, I didn't. I didn't think anything about smear campaigns. I would just remember being like, huh, this is weird.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I was in defense of Blake, too, because I was like, prior to it, I talked about how I saw this interview about this hairdresser who wrote a book, and he was saying it was about his life. And of course, the only clips that no one cared about his life, except when he talked about celebrities. And he was like, oh, this actress was so wonderful. And we were best friends. Blake never asked me about her daughter. She invited us all over, and the food wasn't ready yet for Easter. I'm like, she invited the crew for Easter. It sounds pretty fucking nice. Like, I was like, you know what? Sometimes hairdressers and makeup artists, sometimes the artist is so worried about the scene. They don't want to ask you about your daughter. So I was in the defense of, like, the fact that, like, makeup and hair people are always like, oh, like, we all just believe everything that they say. And I'm like, sometimes. Sometimes, you know, we don't want to be your best friend because we're stressed. We don't want to follow up with you because we hung out on a movie for two months. And that shouldn't mean that she's inherently a bad person.

[Nick Viall]

I think there's a huge difference between being a jerk and being a creep. And what I have learned is that, like, depending on who you ask, a lot of people disagree with that, you know, like, disagree with creep versus. Sure. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think, you know, if you're good at setting a boundary and you're good at saying no to people and you're good at asking for what you want, there's a lot of people out there who, like, think you're kind of, like, not fun or, like, you know, I don't know. There's people out there who might think I'm a jerk, you know, or maybe people out there who might think you're a jerk because you're good at being, like, you're no bullshit person, you know? Anyway, so, like, back to that. I just remember thinking, like, wow, this is so off. Like, why? Like, it didn't make sense to me that, like, here you have this, like, ultra celebrity and Blake Lively. I knew who Justin was at the time, but, like, compared to, like, her, like, I would say nine out of 10 people who have heard this story don't even know who this guy is. And I think that's part of why, like, sentiment has, like. I think most people are fond of the story. It's just like, ooh, Blake Lively.

[Heather McDonald]

What?

[Nick Viall]

What? What did she do wrong? Like, a kind of a fall from grace situation. But it just, like, made no sense to me, you know? And then, you know, the movie came out, story kind of went away. Everyone kind of forgot about it, blah, blah, blah. And then so when that story came out, it kind of all made sense where it was just like, oh, well, that's why, to me, it really registered that this whole shmear campaign that Blake has alleged that he's doing kind of started back in August, when I think that the moment in which she put him and his team down in the basement or whatever, or that the premiere came out where he had to do press on his own. That's when him and his team said, we're going to war and we're doing this. And I could bring up accounts or like, I found this one interesting Twitter account called something Marvelous or something. And this person, I don't know if it's a he or a she. It's like an anonymous account, but, like, broke down, just like what Justin's team is doing. Right. And so essentially, when you think about the Shmear campaign, Shamir Shmeer, like on a bagel.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So I think it's really fascinating, like, in this Jed Wallace person that's named or whatever, like, he does exist. I know people who have taken meetings with this guy.

[Heather McDonald]

He's the one that she accused running ran.

[Nick Viall]

He's the person who seems to be like, running the social media manipulation. And essentially what seems to be going on is like. Like you kind of mentioned before, like, a lot of it is this, like, you kind of play on, like, various nervous. You go on Reddit, you create some storylines, you create some content, you find old clips, you find old videos. You blitz. You really push a narrative over and over. Then you find other people out there online with the same messaging. You search, like, pro Justin stuff, anti Blake stuff. And then when it comes to the pro Justin stuff, they're boosting those posts. Right. And so, for example, this particular account, it started this thread explaining what he was doing by showing this one Tweet that had 300 impressions, six likes, and 60 retweets. Now, that is basically saying this was boosted because you can't show me a tweet out there that has that ratio that's actually organic. If something has 10 retweets, it has 50 likes or something to that effect. So this is clearly something that it was like. I think the tweet was, you can't make me hate Justin Baldoni or something. And this account was pointing out that this was like a failed attempt at boosting this particular tweet. But they're doing this in, like, great numbers. And they're going online searching for, you know, and they kind of broke down. They looked at all the retweets and looked at the accounts and yada, yada, yada. And when you think about the Internet, the Internet is. It operates in trends. I mean, you and I do that, I'm sure, like, what's trendy, what music's trending, what dances are trending and things like that. And so I know there's a lot of speculation about people accusing, oh, Justin's team is paying people, or yada, yada, yada, but it's also just like, I think people love following trends. And so for the, you know, I don't know who's mad at me or whatever, but I do, like, listen, I'm not a journalist. I don't report the news. I'm an entertainer. You know, that's what I said.

[Heather McDonald]

This is a comedic commentary on pop culture.

[Nick Viall]

We might be wrong. I don't know. But I have not read all the courtyards and whether. And I've read the vast majority of them. I'm not an expert, though. And we've had some experts on. But there's a lot of people out there online who are like, you know, social media commentators or podcasters or whatever who act like they are experts just because they've read complaints. And then every day they're out there with this new theory, this new theory that. And that's great. They have their take, but that doesn't make them experts because they believe a narrative also, whether it's on purpose or not. There's a lot of people out there benefiting from the fact that Justin, I believe, has a team boosting all the pro Justin stuff and suppressing the anti Blake stuff. Because also what they're able to do is all these fake accounts and not really bots.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, pushing the anti Blake.

[Nick Viall]

Well, no, what actually can happen is you get a bunch of accounts that then start. If you see a pro Blake account, you can like, you know, I can go on your page and start like, reporting all your content if I wanted to.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

You know what I'm saying? And so if you get hundreds of those that can suppress that stuff. And so, like, I think it's really going on. And like, the alleged, you know, Justin Baldoni's co founder is a billionaire. He has the money to do exactly what Justin's team seems to be doing, which is fighting this case in the court of public opinion. And everyone's just kind of dismissing that. And so I also think it's crazy to think like so. And all these narratives about, like, most of the conversations is about the sexual harassment. No one's really talking about the smear campaign. And to me, I think what most people should be freaked out about is that part of Blake's complaint because, like, the smear campaign of, like, I think it's scary if Blake's side is right, if my opinion is right, I think people should be terrified what Justin and his team have been able to accomplish. This guy who's seems to be. Has unlimited funding, right. Has a following himself, has been Able to take down and change the narrative of some of the most likable, formally like a list celebrities in the world. Because he has a very dedicated, very sophisticated team who's been able to drive these narratives and bring up every awkward interview that Blake's ever given or every bitchy moment she might have said or things like that. And I think we love a takedown. You know, America loves a takedown and they love a comeback. You know what I'm saying? And so I think right now Justin is benefiting from the fact that most people don't even know who he is. And most people, when they hear the story, they're just like, what did Blake do wrong? What did she say? Most people even care enough, they don't even care enough to know that this whole man's like, he does a TED talk, talking about how you need to believe women, even if what they're saying is against you. And I'm just simply saying, like that sexy voicemail. We can sit here and debate whether that was creepy or it wasn't creepy. It really depends on who you are. If you want to fuck the guy, you might think his voice is hot, whatever. But I'm saying that the guy who has written all these books, who gives these TED talks, you don't at the end of a six minute voice message talk about someone's boob in that context. When your whole platform is saying, how I know how to talk to women, I know what I'm supposed to do. I know what creepy is. If your 18 year old son came home and he brought his buddies and you overheard them talking about the porn they were watching, you might be like, you gross, Yuck. If your priest came over and started talking about the porn he watched, you would have a very different opinion. And my point is, is that like when a guy like Justin comes in and says, I've done the work, I know what it's like. I am your ally. Trust me, women, I know you've been, you've had all these terrible experiences with men, but I know your plight. And then the next thing you know, he's sending you a six minute voicemail talking about your boob. You're like, it's the, it's like, you're like, what the fuck?

[Heather McDonald]

We're gonna move on. But I'm gonna tell you, this is what I think happened. You told said what you think happened. This is what I think happened. Okay. I think, you know, he could be a bit of a BS or wannabe, this person. That's fine. I think that she was excited to. As any mom who's been married for 10 years and has four kids to. I mean, I've never played a role where I was romantic with someone, but I would fucking jump at the chance at 25 years of marriage because it's like a legal, free makeout, right?

[Nick Viall]

I guess.

[Heather McDonald]

So I'm just saying, like, you know, it's kind of exciting. She also. That's how she got with Ryan Reynolds when they were both with other people on the Green Lantern. So she. I think she was being flirty, a little bit excited for it at one point. She wasn't maybe even having any intention to get with him, but just enjoying that time. Ryan got wind of it, saw the text messages on the kid's iPad or whatever and didn't like it and then got pissed. And then she placated her husband, who she knows his moods after 10 years, and was like, he's fucking creeping me out. Like, he's coming in here when I'm breastfeeding. And he's like, he did what? Oh, fuck this motherfucker. And then his first reaction is, let's make fun of him. Because that's what I like to do. They shoot the knife pool part where they're making fun of him, which is absolutely. You can do that. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Nick Viall]

The way people are, like, making that such a thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Comedy that you were able to do that. That's legal. Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And also, like, if someone. I. Whether. Whether your version's right or my version's right, like, if someone. Like, if I were in his position, I thought some guy was a creeper with my wife, I would absolutely mock him.

[Heather McDonald]

Right? So that's what I'm saying. I can kind of see that.

[Nick Viall]

Doesn't mean I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

I can kind of see that. And then they're like, fuck this guy. We're never gonna work with him again. And the studio's aware of it, so they're like, you guys have to have separate things. Blake is the bigger star, and she's bringing the bigger star husband. And that kind of bummed Justin out, but he was like, whatever. But he was like, no. Like, maybe. Maybe there was something going on with, like, let's get out stories of what habit she was. I'm just saying. But then they went the next step months later, and they said that she. And she said, I was sexually harassed. And I do not believe that she was. That she didn't say she was assaulted. She was harassed and harassed.

[Nick Viall]

Well, that's a huge Difference.

[Heather McDonald]

It's a huge, huge, huge dissonance.

[Nick Viall]

Let me ask you.

[Heather McDonald]

This can be interpreted as such when you're the victim of it. So I will give her that.

[Nick Viall]

So two things. Back in August, when the story came out, there were reports about, like, you know, when Blake was getting crucified. Initially, People magazine or something came out. I think it was People came out with some story about, like, the reason for the disconnect between the rest of the cast and Justin. It was some of Justin's on set behavior or something. And I was like, oh, here we go. And then immediately people were like, fuck Blake. This is bullshit. This is like. I was like, what? Like. And any other story, I was like, this would, like, turn into something. And it weirdly didn't. And again, I don't know, maybe at the time.

[Heather McDonald]

Here's the final thing of it. Here's the final thing of it. In this day and age of 20, 25, and there's been. I was sexually harassed by my first network podcast. One guy. And there was someone that was like, don't you know, A lawyer came to me. I heard your story. I heard that. I played the tape. Don't you want to. Do you want to sue? And all that stuff. And I was like, no. Like, I don't. I don't care to go down that road. I wasn't thrown up against the wall. Was I sexually harassed? Was. I felt nervous? Yes. The worst part about it was he tried to keep me from having a podcast for the next six months. See, I don't think, like, that is where I was like, just let me fucking work. That is where it was so annoying. But I ended up putting out the story. I played the tape. He was like, I was being funny. I'm like, oh, good, then aren't you glad that I played how funny you were? And then because other thing. The things that mattered most to him being a UC regent, that was taken from him, carrying a gun around as an honorary sheriff, that was taken from him. And now he's deceased. But no, people still think, oh, Heather's problematic. She sued. No, I never fucking sued.

[Nick Viall]

But that's the thing. I actually think that she never wanted to or intended to bring this case forward because of the sexual harassment. This is my conspiracy, right? I'm not a big conspiracy theorist. But if her version is true. So she came to set, he did some weird things, whatever. There's also, like, alleged witnesses. So, like, if this goes to court, like, I mean, maybe. Maybe she's. If she's lying, I Mean, I do think one person in this story is a horrible person. I do believe that. Like, and then, like, you know, again, like, maybe I'm off track. But if you're. I mean, I want to go back. But if you do, you have a friend who's recently lost a parent or loved one who has, like, maybe still, like, hard feelings about, like, losing their parent, Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Yes, of course. Everyone does.

[Nick Viall]

And if their boss, who you were on the fence about, came to work one day and was like, I was talking to your dad last night.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that's right. Then what was the story there that he said to her, I talked to your dad in my dream last night.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And it seemed like multiple times. So think about that. That's such a manipulative thing to be. Like, I have a relationship. I have a relationship with your father. I've been talking to him, and you know what? He's proud of you, or he's sad. I don't know what he said, but that's fucked up. And even if that's all he did, and that would be like, stop fucking doing that. You know? And so if that's all he did, she shouldn't have done it.

[Heather McDonald]

I think she would have done nothing until she believed. They believed, she and Ryan, that there was real evidence of the smear campaign.

[Nick Viall]

Yes, I think. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And then in doing it, they listed all the fucking things that went on, and they said, actually, these other things are under sexual harassment. So we're gonna put that in there, too. I know people are gonna correct a million things in this discussion. I know there was a complaint that happened when there was a Covid break, and that's when Deadpool was done. I mean, that's why this conversation keeps going on, and that's why it's going to trial in a year, because there is so fucking much through it.

[Nick Viall]

That's the thing. I think they complained about his behavior. According to her side, that behavior allegedly got better. Like, he stopped doing whatever she said, please stop doing this, so we can just finish this fucking project and I can never talk to you again.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

And then, yeah, maybe Blake shouldn't have distanced herself from Justin. Whatever. She pulled that move. I think his team saw that as, like, the first punch. And then he got together with his billionaire buddy. They hired this, like, team that again, the emails out there. Think about all the emails. Like, I don't know how, like, to me, all the emails that you've been talking about Blake, are just like, Blake being nice to Justin doesn't mean that he made her feel uncomfortable or any of the things that she claimed weren't true. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, and that's the thing when you have something like this. Every single thing. Yeah. Like, even with my, you know, podcast One boss, I'm sure people were like, you went on his boat, you know, like, first month of working there, you're.

[Nick Viall]

Trying to make it work.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. With my husband, sure. I mean, and my friend. Yeah. And it was fine. And he wasn't creepy then. And it really. And even when he was creepy, the first thing I did was I called him and I said, I don't want to have a podcast anymore. And I go, I am not making enough money. And he goes, all right, fine. Just know you can't have a podcast anywhere else. I go, what do you mean I can't? The whole point is I'm supposed to have my own. So it was like I tried to do all those things.

[Nick Viall]

But, yeah, I think they felt like they came after him. Think of. I mean, this is like the conspiracy. Think about, like, in the way back in the 60s, we had the Trump assassination attempt, which weirdly, no one talked about, which was kind of bizarre. And I was like, this is the craziest thing that's going on. What the fuck is going on? In the 60s, you had JFK, RFK, Malcolm X, MLK. They were all assassinated. That used to be a weird thing. There was these crazy assassinations from public figures that were disruptors. You know why you see less of that? Because it's far more effective just to assassinate someone's character. When you actually assassinate someone, literally, you actually, like, memorialize their cause. I know I'm getting a little deeper into the weeds when you think about it in those contexts. Justin Baldoni allegedly got accused of being a creep. And she's like, please fucking stop. And instead of just stopping, him and his colleagues tried to literally destroy her. They tried to assassinate her character and her husband's. And like, if this alleged that this hun, this billionaire, was willing to spend $100 million, now that's just an allegation. We don't know if it's true. I don't know where that came from. It's in her statement. But, like, if that's the case, I do think for Blake and Ryan, I think it is personal. I think they're like. Because it really makes no sense, right? Like, objectively speaking, if you're their lawyer or their friend, it's like, do you really want to go to battle with, like, is it worth it? Like, this guy's a nobody compared to you. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Things have blown over.

[Heather McDonald]

So I think they, I think they're.

[Nick Viall]

Like, this guy tried to come for my fucking family.

[Heather McDonald]

They tried to destroy it.

[Nick Viall]

And he. And I think they're out there being like this guy and they're seeing it through, okay?

[Heather McDonald]

But I think in their heart of hearts, they've got to be. And then we're moving on. I definitely think they regret it because it's like, what's that?

[Nick Viall]

That might be true, but I do think it's personal.

[Heather McDonald]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns.

[Nick Viall]

McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Heather McDonald]

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[Nick Viall]

Oh, she ate well.

[Heather McDonald]

You think she looks great?

[Nick Viall]

No, I'm saying, are we going to talk about her, like, outing all these journalists that, like, wrote some stories?

[Heather McDonald]

Okay. Okay. So here she is when the Stranger Things started a couple years later, and Today she's only 21 years old. She normally had brown hair. Now she has blonde hair with bangs. And in some of these red carpet photos, I don't know if it was the lighting, maybe she did get some filler or something. But the biggest difference is she has long blonde hair and it looks very mature. She definitely looks like a woman who's like 38, not 21. So people commented, and then she called it out, and no makeup, but with a blonde hair. And she said all the. You know, who would write these articles and put this up? Well, the articles were written because the photos were public and people were commenting, and then that becomes viral and then these people write articles. And I do appreciate her saying that, but at the same time, if you're going to be an actress, if you're going to go on the red carpet, your dress is either gonna be seen as beautiful or bad. We are gonna comment on people's looks. I'm sorry, it's just a fact. And I think it's mostly the blonde hair. I don't know what she's had done to her face. But I too think she looks like she's a woman that's on her second divorce. Sorry, I do, sure.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, I mean I'm definitely entitled to that opinion.

[Heather McDonald]

She still looks really attractive, but I don't think her look just looks mature. She still looks very attractive. But to me she does look unrecognizable. I would have never known who that was. And I'm sorry that she was hurt by it. But looking older, more mature, so what? Then you can play a variety of roles.

[Nick Viall]

Fair enough. But I also think she's entitled to be offended and I think she's entitled to do exactly what she did and go out there and read the names and the headlines of. You know, because some of them are fucking shitty headlines. I mean like, I agree, the bullshit, you know, some of, you know, some of the people who are out there, like, and that's not to go back to what we just talked about, but like fucking journalism is, journalism is dead. You know, like, I think, you know, well, we're not, we're not news reporters and we're not journalists. Like sometimes we have more credibility than people who claim to be the news because like, it's like it, We've never, we've never told people that we're like the absolutely undisputed place for trusted news. You know what I'm saying? We don't pretend to be, but sometimes there's outlets out there who like we are and then they do their bullshit and biased and it's just like, well, fuck man, why should we believe you? Anyways, I think I say good on her. And she came into this business as a 10 year old and now she's only 21. And for some of these people who are writing these articles, it's coming from a place of like pettiness and hate and shit like that. And yeah, again, I guess she's.

[Heather McDonald]

And also just the Drake thing, you know, Drake and her used to talk on the phone when she was 13.

[Nick Viall]

That's Andre.

[Heather McDonald]

It was fucking weird.

[Nick Viall]

That's Andre.

[Heather McDonald]

Of course it was weird. And you know, and it got reminded at the super bowl and at the Oscars. So did you see this? When Ariana Grande was asked about her next album? And she goes, I went to the, I think she was trolling brain erase clinic or something at some clinic. And I looked it up and it does exist.

[Nick Viall]

It does exist.

[Heather McDonald]

It does exist.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, I thought she was just trolling.

[Heather McDonald]

No, she was like, you know that clinic, you know, that makes your memories go away, they erase your memories And I was like, I mean, I don't know, there's so many weird things in la. And obviously if there was some awful memory of like getting in a horrific car accident and seeing your mom die or something, and it kept replaying in your mind and someone goes, do you want that erased?

[Nick Viall]

That's a.

[Heather McDonald]

This is a thing then maybe, then why would that not be? That to me sounds like a good thing potentially. But then of course, conspiracy things are like, is that what they do to children who were like, you know, molested by Hollywood elites? We just send them to the clinic to erase the memories of it? But that's that. She said it just so you know, with her wide eyes.

[Nick Viall]

When I saw it, I thought she was like just trolling, like making like she got asked a question she didn't want to answer. And then she was like, I don't know. They erased my memory so I can answer it. That's how I told her.

[Heather McDonald]

She actually says the clinic's name, so. Oh yeah, it's in a real place.

[Nick Viall]

That's bizarre.

[Heather McDonald]

And Sloane Hooks got that one. Adrien Brody, just to remind people, he has this beautiful girlfriend. The girlfriend is the ex wife of Harvey.

[Nick Viall]

Natalie told me this morning. I was like, what?

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. I've known this for a while. And I'm just like, wow, a woman like that, that could go from marrying the most evil Jabba the Hutt looking man, having two of his kids. Which I'm like, who knows? She might have gotten sperm. Who even knows if her two kids with him or whatever, and who knows if they even go by Weinstein anymore? Cause he's like in prison. But, you know, and he would. And Weinstein would bully all of his actresses to wear her dresses when she was like, trying to be a designer. And now she's still drop dead gorgeous. And now with an Oscar, two time Oscar winner who is like a father to the kids. I mean, talk about someone that just. I mean, how must have a real something about her to get men? I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

But like, I don't. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

I think it's great.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know how old she was when she met Harvey. Clearly he's a monster.

[Heather McDonald]

I remember just seeing them at the Oscars and I remember her hair being darker at the time.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, he's a monster.

[Heather McDonald]

And her being like. And I remember going, God, like, how do you tell yourself, like, this is who you're in love with? I remember thinking that.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, who knows? But my heart goes out to Her. My heart goes out to her. He's a monster. He's obviously manipulated and abused, you know, so many people. It's like, I'm just glad she's in a better place.

[Heather McDonald]

What did she know? Who knows?

[Nick Viall]

Who knows?

[Heather McDonald]

Lizzo's thin. Good for her. Good for her. And it was one of my predictions from over two years ago. The minute I heard about if she's happy, I'm happy. I said, watch, Lizzo's gonna get thin and people are gonna get pissed and they're gonna say, I thought you said you loved your body. And da, da, da. Yeah, that was your body, and you should love your body every time.

[Nick Viall]

However you love, you should be grateful.

[Heather McDonald]

That you could walk. You should be grateful that you could breathe. But are you then wanna change it five years later? Because the ability that you have the ability to. And then you like it. And yeah, there's a lot.

[Nick Viall]

There's a difference between self love and the willingness to, like, make your life better. If you think it's possible Lizzo wasn't walking around listening to your doctor.

[Heather McDonald]

Everybody needs to be fat. Eat that burger.

[Nick Viall]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

She's like, this is me and I love me, and I'm gonna dance around and do the float the flute and I still love me. And there's nothing wrong with body positivity. It didn't go away. But, yeah, a lot of people that were. You know, that was a trend and they were using. Yeah, some of them are smaller today. So what. This was kind of interesting. And this came from archive Kardashian. They put together a video of when Kylie Jenner was with Travis Scott, the father of her two kids, and he lost the Grammy. And they show him, and he just ignores her and walks away angrily. And she's in this gown, like, trying to find him. And then they cut to her current boyfriend, Timothee Chalamet, when he lost the Oscar and how loving and sweet and gracious he was to her. And I just. I'm so happy she's with him. I'm, like, loving this relationship and I think the next. Since they went from athletes to now Oscar contenders, the next single, Kardashian obviously has to go for, like, a major politician.

[Nick Viall]

Ooh.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Well, it's almost like the goal is.

[Heather McDonald]

To get into the White House either as a wife or. Or that person.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know about Travis Scott or whatever. I know he's had that Astroworld controversy and blah, blah, blah, but, like, Timmy seems like he's really happy and grateful to be in this relationship. And it wouldn't blow my mind if Travis maybe, like, didn't act as, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Grateful, so to speak. And I think. Yeah, I think now that Kylie's older, more mature, like, you know, she's making different decisions, she's able to, you know, like, oh, like, this guy never even cared about me. Liked me in the past, and, like, this guy treats me like a fucking queen, you know?

[Heather McDonald]

And throughout the whole, like, time, she's just been, like, so beautiful and gracious. I love it. Okay, let's talk about the Alex Cooper of Caller Daddy and Alex Earle from TikTok fame.

[Nick Viall]

And let's squeeze in Matt James and Rachel.

[Heather McDonald]

The controversy, which is Alex Cooper took on Alix Earle and to be part of her Unwell Podcast or serious lineup, which seemed great, but she has since said Alix Earle is left the network, and I have no rights to that podcast, Hot Mess. And we don't know where the Hot Mess podcast is gonna land. So people are speculating. Neither have spoken anything about it negatively about each other, which is wise. And what happened now? A couple things that happened is super bowl happened, and Alex Cooper was having a big party for her Unwell network, and Alex Earle was in the town and didn't come. Just blew off the super bowl party.

[Nick Viall]

But also, you know, and in two super bowl commercials.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. So obviously, she's part of her network. They're in the town. I'm Alex Cooper. I would feel a little snubbed if she couldn't at least pop by for a half hour and take some photos and do what influencers do.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But I don't think that's why.

[Heather McDonald]

So this is what I. This is what I think.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I think that they were friends and they were excited, and I think two things. I don't know that Alix Earle is loving doing a podcast. I think not everyone is great at podcasting. I think she's gorgeous. I think she's fun to watch. I think she can be a model. I think she's dating a cute football player. Talking and telling stories is not everybody's jam. So she might have been complaining. She might not have been liking it that much. Alex Cooper may have been giving her advice of, like, a direction to go that she didn't want to go. And I think Alex Cooper, being 30 already having a breakup with Sophia F. Was like, you know what? I am not going to have this go any further, and I'm not going to be perceived as Cruella De Vil, who, like fucking Miranda from Devil Wears Prada. Who is, like, firing, like, let's just call it a day, and let's not speak negatively about each other. You go do your podcast wherever you want to go. I have $200 million, no sweat off my back. That's that. That's what I think happened. And I think Alex Earle is probably like, okay, like, you know, and it just didn't work out. But because it's two beautiful blonde women, people want to make it think it was a bigger thing.

[Nick Viall]

I couldn't agree more. I don't think it's that deep.

[Heather McDonald]

Right?

[Nick Viall]

I know Alex Cooper. I don't know Alex Earle at all. Alex Cooper's all business. Like, she's a businesswoman. And, you know, like, Alex, you know, I have a podcast network. Alex is obviously bigger than mine, but, you know, she. When people I sign, I want them to. I want them to love podcasting. You know what I'm saying? That's the number one quality when I'm looking for talent to sign and come on my show. When I get pitched, I want to know that they love doing this. Versus, like, is this, like, some sort of side project that you're adding to the million things that you're. Because everyone's doing and everyone thinks it's easy. And you're right. Podcasting is hard. And we get in on these mics every week and we. We give our opinions and thoughts, and we share a little bit of our lives and we leave that are open for people to pick it apart, nitpick it, whatever. And, like, she's doing her thing, you know, Alex, you know, on. On the Internet. And I think. I think it just became a, like, I think Alex is more like, your heart's just not into it. She's kind of, you know, whether she was a diva or not, it was just more like, you're kind of too much work and you have your own thing going on. You're doing super bowl commissions, and let's just, like, this is part ways. Because all the other people she's signing right now are probably maybe more passionate about it. It's their thing.

[Heather McDonald]

And also really classic for her to be like, take it.

[Nick Viall]

I don't need it.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't have any rights to it. Which is like, you know, what. What I talked about previously with my first podcast wasn't the case with me. So it's like, to me, that is, like, a very classy move.

[Nick Viall]

Dave did the same thing for her. You know, it was like. So, yeah, I don't think it's that deep. I think it was just more like your heart's not in it. I want people to be in it. And like you never want to ask people to record or show up and you don't want to track them down and you don't want to push them to like lean in. And I just, like you said, I just don't think podcasting was Alec Earle's thing. If you're getting multiple super commercials in one super bowl and you're like getting all these incredible opportunities that Al is getting, she's like, I don't need this shit.

[Heather McDonald]

Also it might be the one thing and I don't know cause I haven't listened to it, but I haven't heard like a lot of buzz or that it's that great. I've heard it's a little boring. Alex Earle's podcast. So it might be the one thing that she read first. The first bit of negativity that she's gotten since she's been doing this for three years. And she's like, fuck. This gives me an icky feeling. This makes me not want to do this.

[Nick Viall]

Exactly.

[Heather McDonald]

Modeling, doing a cute video with my boyfriend about our get ready for me, whatever. Going to a wedding that I get so much love for. Why? And you should do the things that bring you joy, like don't be doing it.

[Nick Viall]

I like firing Alex early because she didn't show up to her party. I don't think so.

[Heather McDonald]

No. Kourtney Kardashian, really quickly, there was a rumor going around that was that Mason Disick, her son, had a one year old daughter named Piper. And it started because there was supposedly a fake, his fake insta. The coordinates matched with their helm in Hidden Hills. And I talked about it on my Patreon Friday and I'm like, I don't believe this is true. But I do think this is a rumor that she will address. And she did. Courtney addressed it. It's absolutely not true. He does not have a child. It's complete made up thing. Someone made up the fake Finsta. The whole thing all fake. Okay, now the last thing I want to talk about because I was kind of fascinated being that you are a former bachelor, was Matt James has, since he was the one that was a bachelor with Rachel Kirkconnell. He broke up with her, you know, and then put before she plane even landed, he posted that we'd broken up. I talked about on the show. He has since deleted that post. And he's in Kenya by himself asking for, you know, African.

[Nick Viall]

One way ticket.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, one way ticket. African Recommends. Now tell me what you think of all of this, being that you're about to.

[Nick Viall]

I'm kind of fascinated by it.

[Heather McDonald]

I was so fascinated by it, for one.

[Nick Viall]

I'm really happy for Rachel, and that's mostly because for people who don't remember, like, when Matt was the Bachelor and all, when, you know, that was when Chris Harrison got fired and all, she was a sacrificial lamb.

[Heather McDonald]

Totally.

[Nick Viall]

And it was disgusting.

[Heather McDonald]

That's exactly what I said.

[Nick Viall]

What the show did to her and Matt, they both, like.

[Heather McDonald]

They almost, like, it made them have to fake that they weren't together.

[Nick Viall]

Correct. It was disgusting.

[Heather McDonald]

They literally could not be together in the public eye because they were like, she went to this party at 18, and therefore, you're black. You can't be with her. And I was like, this is 20, 21.

[Nick Viall]

Larson, like, ran his mouth and.

[Heather McDonald]

And defended her.

[Nick Viall]

Sure. But, like, yeah, whatever. Whatever. I don't want to relitigate that. But, like, you know, and I can tell you that he wasn't gonna get fired for that. I know that for sure.

[Heather McDonald]

He was not gonna get fired.

[Nick Viall]

Chris Harrison, he got fired because he lawyered up. And after that interview and had he not lawyered up? I don't. I think. Well, I know. I know that ABC was not planning on firing him initially after. After the whole Rachel Lindsey and did.

[Heather McDonald]

They ever approach you to take over?

[Nick Viall]

No, but I did, like, pitch myself as, like, hey, like, I had a meeting.

[Heather McDonald]

There was a time where you showed up and did, like, half a show or something.

[Nick Viall]

I hosted a date once. That's pretty typical.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. I remember I came on the show and I said, chris Harrison should be shaking in his boots. No, thanks.

[Nick Viall]

I did the same thing you did. It was actually the same stuff.

[Heather McDonald]

I felt like you did more than that. Okay. I felt like you ran more of a show.

[Nick Viall]

I never thought they would be interested in me, but I was just like, hey, you know, I kind of pitched myself, and I knew it was like. And Rob Mills was very gracious to take a peating meeting with me and make me feel like I was a. But I think they had already landed on Jesse, and I honestly think Jesse was the perfect replacement, because when it comes to what that show is, he's great. Yeah. So I love that Rachel's kind of getting the Ariana Maddox treatment in a way where she's getting this. All these new campaigns, because after the AFR back in the day, she didn't get anything. She didn't get to enjoy the experience. Of what it was like to be the winner of a show. She got treated like. I mean, it was, again, disgusting what happened to her. So I love that she is now getting all this. That. All being said. The way that, like, Matt is being treated because he lacked a little tact during a breakup. And it's like, Jesus Christ. You know, it's like when you compare, like, the Paige desorbo and Craig breakup versus this, it's like, show me the difference.

[Heather McDonald]

Right?

[Nick Viall]

You know? Like, definitely. I think Matt was, like, weird about it. The whole, like, prayer. It was all kind of weird. But, like, I don't know. I honestly think the nicest thing you can do to someone you're breaking up with is make it easy to hate them. Make it easy to hate you. You know, it's real selfish when you're like, I don't know, like, we'll see what happens in the future. And I. And I still love you, you know, like, don't tell me you still love me when you're breaking up with me. You know, it's just confusing as fuck. I don't know. Like. So, like. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

And in doing that, by making it so, I mean, it was horrible that.

[Nick Viall]

I don't think he deserves praise for it.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, he.

[Nick Viall]

He lacked tack. It was weird and kind of, like, heartless and selfish and, like. I don't know. But, like.

[Heather McDonald]

But yeah, it's definitely. She's definitely gonna be.

[Nick Viall]

He broke up with her, that girl.

[Heather McDonald]

That, like, you know, six months or a year from now. And I think, you know, other. Alex Cooper said this, too, when she interviewed her. Like, you're gonna look back and you're gonna really realize, like, what was I doing? I was. I was making myself into a peg, trying to get into a circle or whatever it is. Like, just, you know, really. I don't think that she. Yeah. Was getting. What she.

[Nick Viall]

Think about the trauma she must have experienced during that whole afr. Experience.

[Heather McDonald]

What's afr.

[Nick Viall]

After the final rose, the whole thing where they crucified her.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And he goes, will you give her a hug? And he's like, no.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, that's disgusting. So imagine that trauma that she had to face. Like, I would imagine there was probably a lot of fear of her leaving that relationship for fear of what people might say about her if she were to break up with Matt. And God forbid, the accusations people would throw her away if she left that relationship. So I'm assuming in a lot of ways, she maybe felt stuck or didn't Know what to do. I mean, it was.

[Heather McDonald]

I want to know what's gonna happen.

[Nick Viall]

With what they did to her, with.

[Heather McDonald]

This eating thing, with eating all the food. Because it was always her perfect little cute face that would keep me watching the video is her being like, he'll.

[Nick Viall]

Have to rediscover himself.

[Heather McDonald]

And I felt like she was just being used. Just like a mom uses her kid in the family vlogs and knows that if the kid is in the thumbnail, it gets more views than herself. And I mean, they went back and like, they were like, she's like, oh, my God, this is so beautiful. Like, you're like at a Mexican hotel. And he goes, you want to go swimming? She goes, maybe after lunch. And then he just pushes her in the water and like, just those little insensitive things that, like, you look back and she didn't love it. She didn't love it then. She didn't think it was funny then.

[Nick Viall]

He probably wasn't a great boyfriend and he probably. And she probably didn't feel confident enough to stand up for herself at times because of the power dynamic in their relationship and all that shit that she had to go through.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

What about the Bachelor now? Are you watching it at all now? Do you still cover it at all?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, we still cover it. Definitely less and less. I mean, like, it's just not what it used to be. Now they get the hometowns in six weeks versus nine. It's less episodes. It's like, I don't know, what are we doing?

[Heather McDonald]

The budget just got cut.

[Nick Viall]

No budget. I don't know. You know, like, I. I thought it was back after Joey, you know, and then, I don't know. There's too much other great content out there in terms of love. Competition shows.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I think that hard to watch.

[Nick Viall]

Love island and then come back and watch the Bachelor and be like, I'm not as entertained, right? You got movie night on Love island where they're like, maybe fucking someone else. And now it's just like, you interrupted on the Bachelors. Who gives a fuck?

[Heather McDonald]

And it's all the same verbiage. They never really updated the move. And for me, that's the thing. They don't care, the guys. I mean, now it's just all too young. It's like coming too close to my kids own ages. But even in the last five years, it's like the guy, they changed it. I was into that kind of frat type of guy, and then it just wasn't. And I was like, I can't even watch this and I lost interest.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And they have internal drama going on over there and I don't know if you've heard that stuff. I mean, it was like a Game of Thrones. A lot of people I used to know who ran the show have been like, kind of pushed out or left or gotten fired. And like, you know, there's a lot of shakeups when, you know, Mike Fleiss, who by the way is like, still very much involved but no one really talks about, you know, but after he left and things like that, that's like a worst kept secret. And yeah, I think there's just a lot of hurt feelings and there's. It's a lot of politics.

[Heather McDonald]

Are the golden and golden Bachelorette coming? Yeah, those are.

[Nick Viall]

I think that's, I mean, that's right now they're bread and butter. I mean, it's crazy the fact that they have paused Bachelorette. That's not a good sign for the franchise itself. But I think part of it has to do with they're trying to bring back paradise, I think paradise. They're trying to lean into that and kind of like capture like, you know, what's going on at Love island. And that's the closest thing to that. And then they have Golden Franchise, which has been like their only real shining light recently. So I think they're leaning into that and I guess we'll see.

[Heather McDonald]

But yeah, you know, well, I mean, God, I mean, what a success. Regardless. Well, okay, everybody, if you don't know about your podcast, can you tell them.

[Nick Viall]

That'S the Vile Files? We're on Tuesday, Thursdays, Tuesday, Wednesdays and Thursdays, most weeks, definitely every Tuesday and Thursday for our rally recaps. And we talk a lot of reality TV and Bravo and pop culture.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, we didn't even get similar, but different of the stuff I had with you.

[Nick Viall]

So Heather's gonna come on our show and we'll talk more. And, you know, it's so fun.

[Heather McDonald]

We'll get into all the things that we didn't cover.

[Nick Viall]

Thanks for having me on. I love your show, if I can pay you a compliment. There's a lot of. There's not a lot of people out there whose, like, opinions and advice I listen to and respect. And yours and you and yours is definitely one of them. I just like, you know, having a family, me, Nelly, getting married and having a kid, like, at the end of the day, like, like, you look like you have an amazing life and you have this family that, like, it's all you really care about, you know, other than, you know. And, like, that's what I want. That's what Natalie and I and, like, you know, your advice matters to me, you know?

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, it's just so sweet. No, I love it. I love it. I'm so happy that you guys are doing so well.

[Nick Viall]

If you ever get a chance to meet Justin Baldoni, I promise you, you'll never think that Blake Lively could have fallen in love with him.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay. Wow. Wow.

[Nick Viall]

Have you ever been, like, gotten the ick from great looking men being in the same room after they just kind of are themselves for 10 minutes?

[Heather McDonald]

I said, said I feel like he might be, like, a close talker.

[Nick Viall]

He's far worse than that. He's just a creep.

[Heather McDonald]

All right, that's your opinion.

[Nick Viall]

That is definitely my opinion. Don't sue me. Just in bildoni.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you, Everybody. Go to heathermcdonald.net Enjoy my Patreon. Thank you.