Real Housewife of NYC Carole Radziwill on Bravo, The Kennedys and Sex!

Summary

Episode Summary: Real Housewife of NYC Carole Radziwill on Bravo, The Kennedys and Sex!

Released on February 18, 2025, "Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald" features a compelling conversation with Carol Radziwill, a return guest and author, delving deep into her experiences on "The Real Housewives of New York City," her insights on aging, relationships, and her ventures in writing and theater.

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1. Introduction to Carol Radziwill

Heather McDonald welcomes Carol Radziwill back to the show, reminiscing about their previous interactions and highlighting Carol's vibrant personality.

Quote:

Heather McDonald [02:26]: "Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop from New York City. I am with return guest Juicy Scooper author Juicy Scooper Classy lady, sexy lady, Carol Radziwill is here."

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2. Personal Reflections on Aging and Menopause

Carol opens up about her personal journey with aging, particularly focusing on her eye color changing from hazel to green over the past five years, attributing it to menopause.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [03:12]: "No, no, my eyes recently turned green. Like the last five years... my eyes were hazel brown."

Heather McDonald [04:05]: "Not having your period anymore is the greatest."

Carol Radziwill [04:51]: "Estrogen is a lubricant for your brain, for your bones, for your heart. So, like, you don't want to get osteoporosis. You don't have cardiac events."

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3. Navigating Relationships with Younger Partners

The conversation shifts to societal perceptions of older women dating younger men versus older men dating younger women. Carol shares her experiences and observations, highlighting a growing "ick factor" when older men date significantly younger women.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [09:54]: "I think there's a growing ick factor with much older men dating much younger women... there's a power differential there."

Heather McDonald [11:35]: "A lot now have friends that are in their 50s that are dating, you know, and they're attractive and they're put together and everything."

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4. Exploring Carol's Literary and Theatrical Ventures

Carol discusses her memoir, "What Remains," and her investment in the play "Curse of the Starving Class," detailing the journey from table reads to off-Broadway rehearsals and praising the cast, including Calista Flockhart and Cooper Hoffman.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [29:02]: "I'm thinking about actually turning my memoir, What Remains into a play."

Carol Radziwill [41:24]: "It's extraordinary, like, what they can do to bring life to such a dense, intense, kind of dark play."

Heather McDonald [42:03]: "I did not witness the play, but Carol's insights make it sound riveting."

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5. Critical Analysis of "Bridget Jones' Diary" Sequel and "Real Housewives"

The duo delves into Carol's thoughts on the "Bridget Jones' Diary" sequel, critiquing plot inconsistencies and character motivations. They also reflect on the evolution of "The Real Housewives" series, contrasting the original cast's authenticity with newer iterations influenced by social media.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [24:26]: "I watched the beginning of it, and some things really bothered me... she reveals, I've never had an orgasm with you after 17 years."

Heather McDonald [54:36]: "They have to protect their business and their ability to make money. That's why the joy of the show has changed."

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6. Behind-the-Scenes Insights and Scandals

Carol recounts a significant incident involving Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former attorney, who took a compromising photo during a dinner meeting, linking back to events from her time on "The Real Housewives."

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [57:32]: "He took the photo... it was like, wait a minute, what?"

Heather McDonald [60:42]: "I remember just the way I... I gave her the leg back after she threw it across the room."

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7. The Impact of Social Media on Reality TV

Highlighting the shift from blogs to platforms like Instagram and Twitter, Carol and Heather discuss how social media has transformed the dynamics of reality television, introducing brand deals and increased scrutiny for cast members.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [54:36]: "They didn't have social media when we started. Now every moment is live and can be monetized."

Heather McDonald [55:50]: "Everyone can study it now, maybe it's a bit studied and a bit like they know they can make their money off it."

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8. Future Endeavors and Reimagined Formats

Towards the episode's end, Heather and Carol brainstorm ideas for revitalizing reality TV formats, proposing a revamped "Ultimate Girls Trip" or "Bravo Getaway" that blends elements of popular reality shows while maintaining authenticity.

Quotes:

Heather McDonald [66:19]: "They should probably call it Bravo Getaway. It's a vacation for a week or two with a mix of people."

Carol Radziwill [67:22]: "Women are more fun."

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9. Closing Thoughts and Upcoming Projects

Carol expresses excitement about her upcoming play and Heather promotes her appearance in Palm Springs, encouraging listeners to engage with their respective projects.

Quotes:

Carol Radziwill [75:12]: "I love it. Thank you so much. I'm really excited. I want to see your book become a play. I want the play to be a big hit that you're investing in."

Heather McDonald [76:11]: "Thank you. Love you. Thanks, everyone. Remember, go to heathermcdall.net because I'll be in Palm Springs March 1st at the Agua Caliente."

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Conclusion: This episode offers an in-depth look into Carol Radziwill's multifaceted life, blending personal anecdotes with professional insights. From navigating the complexities of aging and relationships to venturing into writing and theater, Carol provides listeners with a rich narrative of resilience and reinvention. The candid discussions about reality TV's evolution and behind-the-scenes stories add layers of intrigue, making this episode a must-listen for fans seeking both entertainment and meaningful conversation.

Transcript

[Heather McDonald]

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[Carol Radziwill]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Carol Radziwill]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Carol Radziwill]

Listen in.

[Heather McDonald]

Listen up. Hannah McDonald. Juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop from New York City. I am with return guest Juicy Scooper author Juicy Scooper Classy lady, sexy lady, Carol Radzowell is here. I think this is the fourth time maybe you've done it because we did it one time here in New York and another time you were in la.

[Carol Radziwill]

Twice in la.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And I brought the Barbie.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, you brought.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yes. And you were, like, really looking at it. Cuz I like, made her eyebrows, like, better and stuff. Barbie. Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

How my eyebrows today.

[Heather McDonald]

You look amazing. This is your color.

[Carol Radziwill]

Green.

[Heather McDonald]

Because you. Your green eyes. Do you wear a lot of green?

[Carol Radziwill]

No, no, My eyes recently turned green. Like the last five years. I swear to you, I promise you they have. My eyes were hazel. I'll show you on my driver's license. Hazel brown. And just in the last five years, they just started getting lighter and lighter, so now they're green. And I'm thinking maybe I have a liver disease. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you know that my. I feel like my eyes have gotten a little more lighter. Green. Lighter. Because they're always like. We're always just like, brown and then. And I'm like, oh, maybe it's the eye makeup I'm using is, like bringing it out or something to do with, like, drinking.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, I don't. I was gonna say menopause maybe.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know.

[Carol Radziwill]

I feel like as I went through menopause, my eyes got lighter and lighter. They're like bright green now.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, they look good, so who cares? No one talks about the positives of menopause.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, Just straight up.

[Heather McDonald]

Not having your period anymore is the greatest.

[Carol Radziwill]

The greatest thing is the greatest thing.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, my son is 22. Drake is here. So get ready. No one has Drake's life perspective because the amount of times that, like, I would be in like, a compromising position, like running around with the kids.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And not be prepared for my period or for it to be. Whatever.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And you remember when we were at Atlantis? That was bad. No, there's a swim park.

[Carol Radziwill]

There's so many good things. I think I'm not gonna preach about HRT hormone replacement therapy, because everyone has an opinion on it. But if you really do your research, women who don't get on that kind of early on really suffer. Oh, really Suffer.

[Heather McDonald]

I actually did not. I feel like I had it pretty great.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, but you need hormones. Estrogen is a lubricant for your brain, for your bones, for your heart. So, like, you don't want to get osteoporosis. You. You don't have cardiac events. It's like, it's not just meant to go well.

[Heather McDonald]

What is it? Is it A shot or what is it?

[Carol Radziwill]

No, it's just a cream, a topical cream.

[Heather McDonald]

All over your body?

[Carol Radziwill]

No, no, just a dab, like on your abdomen. The amount of medical literature on menopause is this much. This much. And billions and billions of women go through it. I still. I don't understand. I feel like I never had a baby. And I feel like I know more about childbirth than I do about menopause. Like, sort of our sexual health stops at 42 or 45. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, I guess when you get deemed unfuckable. Do you remember that? That Amy Schumer sketch?

[Carol Radziwill]

No. Oh, my God.

[Heather McDonald]

She had a sketch show and it was like, Julia Louis Dreyfus and, like, Tina Fey, and she comes across these women having, like, lunch, and she's like.

[Carol Radziwill]

What do you guys do?

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my God, this is amazing. Like, you're all my favorite, like, female comedians. What are you doing here? And they're like, oh, we're celebrating, like, Julia Louis Dreyfus's last. It's her last day to be considered fuckable. And we're gonna like. And like, they, like, send her in like a canoe and they send her off. And it was like, oh, this is the. Oh, this is the last day. I feel like it was so funny. I'm talking about that.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay, so I can't say talk about sex in front of your son?

[Heather McDonald]

No, it's fine. He has to.

[Carol Radziwill]

I feel like it gets better. It's fine.

[Heather McDonald]

He just has to put up with it. It's.

[Carol Radziwill]

Sorry.

[Heather McDonald]

Part of life. That's what I'm saying. No one has his life perspective. There's not another 22 year old man who has a female standup comedy mother that, like, talks about, like, sex with his dad on stage while he films it.

[Carol Radziwill]

I'm like, can you cut the clip?

[Heather McDonald]

Where?

[Carol Radziwill]

That's so good. So good.

[Heather McDonald]

But I wanted to. No. Speaking of which, you know when we saw you in Real Housewives of Roni, you are a widow and you wrote a book and what Widow's Guide. Oh, yeah. Well, you did what remains in Widow's Guide.

[Carol Radziwill]

Widow's Guide to Sex and Dating.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. And we have so many questions for you, but since we were talking about the dating, so we saw you have like a younger boyfriend.

[Carol Radziwill]

The chef.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, the chef. And you're still. Are you friends? Where is that situation?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, I mean, ADAM I've known 10 years now. Like, I feel like he's. He's like family. You know how they kind of old boyfriends morph into, like.

[Heather McDonald]

No, because I Don't have any old boyfriends. I do. My husband is my family. I think we've morphed into brother and sister.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. Well. Yeah, it's the same. It's the same. After 10 years, it's like you're a brother and sister. Right. You know, the annoying little brother. Right. Like, in a lot of ways, he's more mature than me, but so did you.

[Heather McDonald]

You were saying that. That you just saw a preview of Bridget Jones Diary about a boy.

[Carol Radziwill]

It's called. It's the. It's the fourth installment of the Bridget Jones Diary saga. And it's Renee again. Renee Zellweger. She's kind of awesome. I mean, she's just really.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I love her.

[Carol Radziwill]

She's great. And she's now a widow because in the last installment, Mark D'Arcy dies in a terrorist bombing in Sudan, I think, or some sort of terrible, dark ending to him. And she's Bridget Jones, so she's still, like, she can't quite get it together. And it's so. And Hugh Grant is in it, and she, in the narrative in this is. She has a younger boyfriend played by this really hot guy called Leo Woodall. I mean, he's very talent. He's very good because I've seen him.

[Heather McDonald]

So how much younger he's in the movies. They're characters.

[Carol Radziwill]

Well, it's not like. It's not like the Graduate where, like, Dustin Hoffman was 28 and Ann Bancoff was, like, 32. Oh. When they were playing.

[Heather McDonald]

But I'm saying their characters.

[Carol Radziwill]

Their characters. He was, I think, 20. I think he said he was 28.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Carol Radziwill]

And then.

[Heather McDonald]

And she's like, 50.

[Carol Radziwill]

Well, yeah, but then he said, well, how. And she was like, oh. And then he's like, well, what are you, 35? And she goes, yeah, I'll go with that. You know, 50. She's 50.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

And, you know, I don't know people. I was asked about it afterward because I've had several relationships, like, you know, kind of long relationships with younger men sort of in their 30s. And. And I think there is a. There's an acceptance of it now that just didn't exist even. Even 10 years ago.

[Heather McDonald]

Totally.

[Carol Radziwill]

Right. Like, I feel like people are more accepting of women in their 50s dating men in their 30s than. Than men in their 50s dating women in their 30s or 20s. I feel like that's. There's a little bit of an ick factor.

[Heather McDonald]

Like the. Bill. Bill. What's his name?

[Carol Radziwill]

Bill Belichick. Exactly.

[Heather McDonald]

So he's 70. He's 72 and she's 23 or 4.

[Carol Radziwill]

And I saw this, I saw this.

[Heather McDonald]

One guy ask Tom Brady, like, well, would you ever help your former coach's new girlfriend rent a car because she 25?

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, that is so. And, and he just, he just.

[Heather McDonald]

It like registered for like took like a second. Just like, it took like me and you. And he's like, oh my God, that is so funny. No, they're like, yeah. I'm like, listen a lot now. It's like 20 years is one thing, whatever. 50 years is another. At that point though, who cares? Like, what do you, you really. I mean, I don't.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, I'm just gonna say that I think there's a, there's, there's a growing ick factor with much older men dating much younger women. Because there's a power differential there anyway. If you're a man and a woman similar in age, the. The men is perceived to have more power even if they're both 35. Right. So at 55 and 25, there, you know, there's just an ick factor that doesn't, I think, now exist as much with older women dating younger men. Am I right?

[Heather McDonald]

But I have, I have, I have several friends that are in their 50s that are dating, you know, and they're attractive and they're put together and everything, but I mean, not lying about their age on the app or anything. And they're getting plenty of dates. No, I mean, and from guys their age and from a little bit younger, but like, no, the younger ones are more aggressive. Sometimes the guys are like.

[Carol Radziwill]

The younger ones are more aggressive.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Want.

[Heather McDonald]

Well. Cause I think more aggressive. Yeah. Where sometimes it's kind of the perfect thing where a guy is like, I'm not. If I marry, if I'm whatever, if I'm 38, I'm dating a girl who's 37.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

There's gonna be that pressure.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, where is this going? Are we getting married? Are we having kids? And if the 38 year old guy, 38 year old guy, is dating a woman who's 48, 48 or 50, he knows babies aren't a part of it. That's why there's, there's this.

[Carol Radziwill]

And you can have a really great authentic relationship and you both show up and you're not. There's no game playing. It's like, it's very clear. It's very clear.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like in all my relationships, it's very clear what I wanted and what he wanted, so. And I'll Tell you, like, I mean, with Adam was. You know, we were together almost five years. These aren't like, you know, flings.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

My last. My last boyfriend was a year and a half. Like, so these are. These. These are, like relationships, like any relationship you would have at any age. So. But it's just. There's an. It's just more honest. I don't know. There's.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, you're saying how in the Bridget Jones diary. Like, you know, of course, you know, it makes sense when you're writing a fictional story.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

For at a certain point, the heroine to be single again and it's easier if he dies. And so before Sex and City came back, I became friendly with Chris Noth.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I was so obsessed with Sex and City. Like, you know, obsessed. And I was always, you know, with my writer friends trying to come up what, you know, either sex and City 3, the movie would be or if the series ever come back, what it would be. So I was at his, like, holiday party, and I just go, well, there's Big has to die. I go, big has to die because Carrie has to get out there and date again. And he's like. And then I realized. I can't believe I just said that. Like, he doesn't want. He doesn't want his character to die.

[Carol Radziwill]

Right. Then he's out of work.

[Heather McDonald]

And then the show came back and he did die.

[Carol Radziwill]

I guess it's easier to have them die than to have divorce because there's a lot of messiness with divorce. Although, divorce, it could be funny because you gotta run into him with the young girl. Typical, like, young girlfriend. That's funny. But no, in Bridget, he died and she had this lovely relationship with Leo Woodall, who's gorgeous and shirtless a lot. And you're just like, oh, my God. Yeah. And then she ends up breaking up with him because that's always usually what happens.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

But then Hugh Grant is in it. Hugh Grant is like. I could watch that guy read the telephone book. Like, he's so good. And every time he's so funny and drop by screen, you're just like, He's a scene steal. Like, you almost like you wanted to be with Hugh and not Leo. Right. Even though Leo's, like, hot and whatever. Hugh Grant is just. He's so good in it.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, I'm right.

[Carol Radziwill]

I think there should be another one. I'm gonna put it out there. Yes, there should be another one where it's like Harry Metz Alley. Like, she ends up with Hugh Grant because they're so funny together. They love each other. They're like family. They just need to end up together.

[Heather McDonald]

I put it out there and make it happen. I always, I give all the ideas and I'm like, make it happen because I would like to watch that.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, so put it out there. It's very nostalgic because it's really like when you go see this movie, it's like being back in the 90s almost again. It's like everything about it, even the way it's shot and stuff, it's like, it's like calm. It's nice. It's like old fashioned.

[Heather McDonald]

So speaking of what's not old fashioned. Oh, I saw a baby girl with Nicole Kidman. Yeah. Now when I first saw, when I first saw people doing little reviews and talking about it on TikTok, they had seen it in the movie theater and they're like, oh my God, like, people were laughing, they're dying. And it's. Nicole Kidman is a CEO of a big company that's like, has like robots coming about, but it's modern day and she's in New York and her husband is Antonio Banderas, I think, and he also really good looking. They have two teenage daughters and he is a director of like plays in the city and.

[Carol Radziwill]

But he's not good at sex. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, this is.

[Carol Radziwill]

I just watched the beginning of it.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm spoiling it for you. There's some things that really bothered me. So right off the bat they're like boning all the time. Which if you've been with someone for, you know, at least 17 years because the girls ages, that's pretty great like that you're still boning all the time.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So they're boning all the time. And then the minute they finish boning, she like runs to her bedroom and opens up a computer and like masturbates to finish off to some like, porn. So you're like, okay, I guess she isn't happy. So anyway, then the next day.

[Carol Radziwill]

Why didn't she do it with him though? That's what I didn't understand. Like, just do it with.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, the whole thing is I'm like, so if you've had 17 years, she then reveals, I've never had an orgasm with. With you. After she starts the affair with the Internet. You had 17 years of not having an orgasm, but then being able to have it on your own later, like.

[Carol Radziwill]

Bring it into the bedroom.

[Heather McDonald]

So at 57 or whatever she's supposed to be Playing and she looks amazing, her body's amazing. She decides this 25 year old intern is the one that she's going to cheat on and she hasn't. They don't make it that she's ever cheated 17 years prior. So this is the person that you're like this employee. So right off the bat he's like aggressive, like kind of aggressive with her and stuff. Like tries to kiss her at a meeting and so. But I thought, I'm intrigued because I love any movie that has New York in a background. I literally like want the movie for me to search up New York affairs and murders, like psychological thrillers, sexy. Those are my favorite kind of movies. Unfaithful, Fatal Attraction, A Perfect Murder. Like those all are just. And, and wealth. People have to be wealthy for me to enjoy the movie. So, so they, so all of a sudden watching the whole movie, it seems like it's. This affair is going on for a year, but the Christmas trees are still up. So I'm like, wait a minute, I'm watching it with Peter. I'm like, wait a minute. This whole thing is like within two weeks of like them finding time to go to hotel rooms and work late during the holidays. Which is kind of a hard time to like work late. Yeah, you have all these Christmas parties and kids have like.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But they're, they start boning and doing all this stuff. And of course you've seen the funny parts where he, she walks into, you know, they were getting, everyone's getting drinks after and the interns are over there and she's like with her CEO people. And then someone brings over a big thing of milk and it's like a chic bar. And he's like, did somebody order that? And he, she looks over and he's like. And she goes. And then she guzzles like this. And it's not skim, it's not 2%, it's not 1%.

[Carol Radziwill]

It's full. She's having issues.

[Heather McDonald]

So she drinks the whole thing and then she's like. And I guess the milk was supposed.

[Carol Radziwill]

To be like on her legs.

[Heather McDonald]

Like calm on your face, I guess. Or just that he can get her to do what he wants. Like because, you know, you always hear, I guess about men going to like a dominatrix because they're this big CEO. They want this one to be like, hey you piece of shit, get on your knees. And they like love it. So I guess that was kind of the switcheroo of the story. But then what, what killed me the Most is I'm watching it with my husband Peter. You're gonna like this part, right? So they find out. He, you know, it gets revealed that she. I care, I don't want to tell every bit. But it gets revealed and he goes, get out. The husband Andrew, get out. So she said, but it's like, well, she gets out of her beautiful penthouse and goes to like the, the two story Connecticut or whatever, their house. But it's like, you know, how dare you kick me out to like her 5 million dollar Connecticut house or whatever it is. 50 million. And so she's there alone.

[Carol Radziwill]

And it's her money by the way, right? He's a theater director.

[Heather McDonald]

But she's in her seat in her house and she, she's, you know, feeling sad because she doesn't know what's going on through her marriage. And then she looks out the window and the intern is swimming in the pool. And I'm like, okay, wait, it's still Christmas time. We're on the east coast, it's freezing. It's freezing. So I'm like, if my, if Peter wasn't going to divorce me, my husband for screwing a 25 year old male intern, it would be because I let that male intern turn on the fucking heater of the pool. 20 degrees. I mean it would have taken like 24 hours to get to like a solid like 90 degrees. And then she jumps in and you know, so then they have a fun swimming time.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. And then you know, so he's like a fatal attraction. He's the glamorous.

[Heather McDonald]

They have that scene which I love because like when I was working on writing movies with the Waynes brothers with like white chicks. We watched all the movies, like you know, Tootsie and Some like It Hot. Any movie where there's men having to pretend to be women. And I remember it was like a, it was like a film class because he was like, okay, now we need a scene where they almost get caught. And I was like, oh, there is like a formula to this. And so being that this is a formula, I think to unfaithful. There is a moment when. Or Fatal Attraction where she comes into the house and she hears his voice and the kids are laughing and everything. And it reminds me of in Fatal Attraction when he comes home and she's.

[Carol Radziwill]

Pretending to be the real estate.

[Heather McDonald]

No, she's pretending to be interested in buying the house. Yeah. And they're like, oh, let me give you my number. And he's like. So he shows up because he's like, you Left your computer. She's like, what are you doing here? What are you doing? And then they have a party, and she has this beautiful assistant, this young. This young black girl who's like her main, like, right hand lady. And she invites her to the daughter's party, still Christmas time. And it's like her daughter, sweet 16, and she brings him, the intern. So she's like, goes to him in the. She's like, what are you. She's like, I don't want you to be with her. You're mine. You're mine. And then the girl walks in and she's like, we need more cupcakes. Like, what the fuck is going on? So then, now this is where I like to rewrite a movie, okay? So I am, like, perked up. I'm like, now this gets good, right Now.

[Carol Radziwill]

Was the sex hot in it or was it, like, always good?

[Heather McDonald]

But it was a lot of her, like, set. Like, her orgasms were like an animal. Like. Like, we have a lot of coyotes where we live and sometimes wake up.

[Carol Radziwill]

In the middle of the night.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, coyotes are like. It's so loud. And I'm, like, imagining just, like, a coyote orgy, like, literally in my backyard. So it's like. Like, it was just a lot of that.

[Carol Radziwill]

I hate sex scenes in movies. So, like.

[Heather McDonald]

And they're like, pan to the moon. And also they're at, like, not a nice hotel room. And he has her, like, crawling on the knees. And I'm like, you're telling me this? This pristine, perfectly dressed CEO is willing to crawl on the disgusting, like, hotel carpet. I'm like, I would, but will she?

[Carol Radziwill]

No. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

So, so anyway, so then. So then he. So I'm like, oh, my God, this is getting good now. Because her assistant now knows there's something going on. But the assistant's with him. And of course she could, like, lose everything. So I'm like, this is juicy. But what happens is, you know, the girl, the assistant tells her. Spoiler tells her, like, I know what's going on. All I want you to do is support women. You know, as Roger would say. Okay, can you make.

[Carol Radziwill]

Give me a promotion?

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, we're working hard for you. I don't really like your Australian guys.

[Carol Radziwill]

Did they take that from Roni?

[Heather McDonald]

She goes, I just don't think you're, like, supporting women enough. And, like, so I guess she gives her a promotion. And then all of a sudden, he's gone. And this other CEO comes in and he's, like, kind of hinting that he knows and he's like, I think you and I should talk about, you know, at my. At my house or something.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, doesn't you have to go to HR at some point? Nobody knows.

[Heather McDonald]

Nobody knows. But he hints, like, this other, like, executive mail, and it's like, I know that you were the intern, and he kind of is basically threatening her. Or. Or. Or maybe he's like, you better me or I'm gonna tell or something. And she has a really good scene there where she's like. Like, stands up for herself, and it's like, you. I don't care what you say. Like, I'm gonna be fine. And he goes off to Japan to, like, work for Kawasaki or whatever. Now I was like, the much better. The much better situation if I was rewriting this, which is the same thing happened. Did you watch the Debbie Moore substance?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I could have thought of the better. The. The last one third of the movie sucked. And I'm like, I want to rewrite the ending, but this one, the same thing. I was like, it would have been so much juicier if we found out that the intern and the assistant planned this out. Like, pre planned it, knew it, got chic, helped get him the job. He never even went to college because he had, like. He looked kind of rough, like, to be, like, gone.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, why would he target her?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Like, why was he targeting her so hardcore? And it was like, there could have been something so juicy there. No. So then the husband forgives her.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, no.

[Heather McDonald]

And he finally, you know, fingers are right. And she has an orgasm. And I'm like, that's it. Like, she didn't lose anything besides her heating bill for the month of December at the Connecticut.

[Carol Radziwill]

I'm okay. She knows nothing. I'm okay with her not losing anything. You don't have any men. CEOs, interns don't lose anything. Right. We're okay with her not losing her. But I'm saying, even though the husband.

[Heather McDonald]

The daughters forgave her, like, everything is just fine.

[Carol Radziwill]

The big flaw also is, like you said, 17 years of marriage, they're fucking all the time. And, like, she doesn't think to, like, masturbate or bring that towards.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, it would have made more sense if it was, like, some reference that she was a serial cheater. And that's why she's so brazen, going for this guy that's hitting on her. But it's literally like she's led, like, an exemplatory, like, sexy marriage, total prude.

[Carol Radziwill]

In her marriage for 20 years, and then she's like crawling and licking, like, his shoes. That doesn't make sense. That leap of faith is like, really bizarre.

[Heather McDonald]

But I actually kind of liked watching the movie.

[Carol Radziwill]

Women with younger guys, are they doing. I mean, I feel like it's the reverse of what I feel like. They're not subservient to younger men, I think.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, that's what I think. That's why I think that they.

[Carol Radziwill]

Younger men seem more subservient. Not subservient is not a great word, but you know what I mean? Like, they're just more interested in pleasing.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like, you know how they always do, like different TV shows and things and they're like, it's a remake, but it's with the Latino family or whatever. It's a remake, but instead of an old folk and a young girl, it's going to be an old lady and a young guy.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And like we're just going to. That's going to be the.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, like he's the. What do you call it?

[Heather McDonald]

The diversity thing. It's going to be that. It was that. Yeah. Underwear drawers are like the wild, wild west of wardrobes. There's no rhyme or reason to them. Anything goes. You got pairs from three birthdays and two Christmases ago. Pairs from five different brands with five different fits. When you open that drawer every morning, you have no idea what to expect. Now that I felt the buttery, soft comfort of meundies, my other pairs have got to go. Because meundies is all I reach for. I'm hooked. And honestly, I just feel off if I try to wear anything else. I just love the comfort of meundies. It's what I cannot wait to get into every night. They're cool, they're soft, and they just fit right. From all black classics to fun, expressive prints, Meundies has a look for everyone. Plus, they come in sizes extra small to 4xL, guaranteeing a flattering cut for everybody. Also, I love their versatile loungewear. Meundies isn't just about underwear. You got to explore their lounge collection. Oh, my gosh. Featuring the softest hoodies, comfy joggers, onesies and more. Get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping at MeUndies.com juicy scoop Enter promo code juicy scoop. That's MeUndies.com JuiceScoop code juicy scoop for 20% off, plus free shipping. MeUndies comfort from the outside in this episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com booking yeah. Every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the US I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options, from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that booking.com has something for everyone. For me, at this point in my life, Peter and I are looking for luxury. I love a beautiful hotel that has room service. I love a hotel with a spa, great food options. I am the world's best orderer. Or walk right outside and go to the cutest coffee shop you've ever seen. That is what I'm looking for. But whether you're a parent and you're accommodating kids with big appetites and you want to make sure that that breakfast is included, booking.com has you covered. So no matter who you are, booking.com helps you find the stay. That's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking dot com. Booking. Yeah. That's booking dot com. Booking dot yeah. Okay. I also want to talk about talking about more tv, but first, you are. Tell me about that.

[Carol Radziwill]

You are.

[Heather McDonald]

About the play that you're an investor in, and there's a cool connection to the star. So tell us about that.

[Carol Radziwill]

I'm thinking about actually turning my. My memoir, what Remains into play.

[Heather McDonald]

Absolutely. Should be so funny.

[Carol Radziwill]

I decided. So chic and elegant. And there's a lot of television, lot of limited series, and they're just all sort of like.

[Heather McDonald]

Ryan Murphy is doing one.

[Carol Radziwill]

Well, yes, and he did the Swans.

[Heather McDonald]

And I also want people. Well, I don't know how much you'll be in it, but I'm sure your character has to be in it. And I'm thinking, who should we get to play you?

[Carol Radziwill]

I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

Who should we get to play you in the Ryan Murphy.

[Carol Radziwill]

You mean the. The American Love Story one?

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Carol Radziwill]

John and Carolyn, of course you're gonna.

[Heather McDonald]

Be part of it.

[Carol Radziwill]

If you're telling.

[Heather McDonald]

To his best friend and cousin.

[Carol Radziwill]

If he's telling. No, I don't think I have to be because I.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, whatever.

[Carol Radziwill]

Stayed out of the tabloid. I would like to know if he's just doing the tabloid version. I don't have to be in it. If he's doing the real story, there's no way I couldn't be in it. But I don't want to be in it. I don't want to be in it.

[Heather McDonald]

From what he did with the Menendez brothers, because I know a lot about it. He really kind of Takes a little from everything. From tabloids, from people's theories, from several different books, from. And then also because he can create, you know, he can create a scene in a conversation that nobody knows would be true or not. You know, because you're taking the character.

[Carol Radziwill]

I think everyone thinks everything is true, I think.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

You know, which is the unfortunate part when. When 90% is just from tabloids that are not true.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

But whatever. It's entertainment. Yeah. Like, I'm not wishing to be part of it.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm just. Okay. So I just want to ask the Juice Coopers to suggest some actresses that could slay you.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Because at that time, what, you were like in your 30s.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So an actress in her 30s.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

She doesn't have to have green eyes because they weren't green.

[Carol Radziwill]

They weren't green. They were. They were brown.

[Heather McDonald]

New York. An upper class class New York brunette who's thin with a nice ass. That's what we need, upper class.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, I was a working journalist at abc hustling like, I was not like.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes, but I had style. You had good style is what I'm saying. I mean, you had like the simple, good. You always had the good style. Just like. Just like she did.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, I was. I didn't really have style because I remember Carolyn, like, you know, we used to go through my closet. She used to. She's like, honey, you gotta get rid of this. Oh, really?

[Heather McDonald]

Did you let her? Did you love it? I love it when somebody does that.

[Carol Radziwill]

And she had a great closet. And she gave me all of her, you know, all of her product suits and stuff that she thought she would need to wear like that she never wore, you know. Oh.

[Heather McDonald]

So. And then you had them for, like, work and stuff.

[Carol Radziwill]

I had them from work because I was like a little Miss Nerd going to ABC News.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

She was fabulous. And not going to corporate America. You know, she left.

[Heather McDonald]

If you did yours as a play, what remains?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think I would, to be honest. And I'm just sort of brainstorming it now, but I think I would focus on the two girls. I think I would focus on me and Carolyn, and that would be more the focus. Because I just think there's an interesting. Very complex. I mean, obviously my husband and her husband are part of that whole story.

[Heather McDonald]

But because I should remind people, they're. They're first cousins.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

They're. Jackie and your husband's were sisters and they were the only two in the family, so they're very close. And there's a lot of books and stuff written about their relationship because it's something juicy and things that people want to speculate about because one was the first lady, the other one was, you know, had this great life in New York. And then there's, you know, Onassis that came in, and there's stories that Lee. Lee dated Onassis. And then that ended. But then there's stories that basically like, Lee was like, you should go form Jackie, because you need someone this wealthy because the Secret Service has stopped and the Kennedys are being cheap and you have these two kids and no protection. I'm just saying these are the things that I've read. I don't know anything, but these are the stories that are kind of out there. So it's like, yes, I think I want to know what it was like for the two of you to marry into this.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, it's just a much more. It's like a deeper story of the two girls. And she grew up much like I did in upstate New York. Not wealthy, but, you know, she was a single mom, you know, with three kids.

[Heather McDonald]

You mean her mom was.

[Carol Radziwill]

Her mom was a single mom.

[Heather McDonald]

I didn't know that.

[Carol Radziwill]

I know, because the story in the tabloids is more like, grew up in Greenwich and it all seems fabulous. But she didn't. Her mom didn't remarry till Carolyn was, like, in her teens. So that was. And then she married a doctor and that was, you know, then they moved to Greenwich. But no, she grew up in Yonkers and, you know, much probably like I did. So it's sort of like this sort of Cinderella story. We both go to the, you know, make our way to New York City and kind of reinvent ourselves. Her and fashion. And she, you know, moved up the ranks in fashion. I moved up the ranks of journalism. I don't know, it just feels like.

[Heather McDonald]

And also that era, there's a lot of nostalgia, like 90s. The Gen Zers are like, oh, what was it like to be in college without Instagram? Like, they love. They liked how they like with my book, you'll never blue ball in this town again. I always think it's great to have a book because I always tell people when they're like, should I write a book? I write a book. Because you never know. It's not like it has to turn it. Unlike tv, that you pitch it, nobody wants it, it's dead. Or the pilot is dead. It's dead. A book is as a piece of real estate that can be turned into something later on, I feel like my book. Just because you talked about it, I feel like my book, which was about a girl in la, like, trying to make it all these funny dating stories and all this stuff, but I was an old virgin, and I really didn't want to be an old virgin, but I was. And so. But. But it's like. And I'm almost like a little bit of a Forrest Gump. Like, I live down the street from OJ I made out with Cato. Like, there's all these, like, stories from the 90s that are like, a little bit.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. And so I'm like, that could be.

[Heather McDonald]

They're obsessed with the 90s because there's, like, answer machines. There's, like. You had to wait. You could play the Rules, which is the book about, like, making a guy kind of wait and wonder what you're up to.

[Carol Radziwill]

You met your husband at work a lot. Like, you know, now it's, like, forbidden.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. You can't meet them at work.

[Carol Radziwill]

Meet them at work. Right. It was. Everyone's nostalgic for it. And my story, I think, takes place really in the 70s when we grew up, and that's such a great era in the 90s when I got to ABC News and moved to the city. Carolyn moved to the city around the same time. We both met when I met Anthony. She met John in the early 90s.

[Heather McDonald]

Who met the husbands first.

[Carol Radziwill]

I met ANTHONY probably in 1990. Yes. And. And then she. Carolyn and John started dating in. In 91 or something, but then they broke up for a while and he went back to an old girlfriend he was dating Daryl Hannah for. So he dated her. He went back to her for a couple years, and then they got back together in. In 94.

[Heather McDonald]

And then were you happy? Like.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, because you stayed friends with her.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, okay. That's cool.

[Carol Radziwill]

So that kept the connection. So you got that connection. She was like, so.

[Heather McDonald]

So that every time, like, he'd pop over, like, in his beret. I always imagine him on a bike in a beret, but with no shirt. I know that doesn't make sense, but it's like, the way he remembers it. But when he came over shirtless in a beret, and he was never shirtless in a beret.

[Carol Radziwill]

And so.

[Heather McDonald]

So then you. Would you drop that? Like, oh, I just had lunch. No. Or he would ask.

[Carol Radziwill]

He would ask. I would never talk about it. And Carolyn was very, very. You know, she's not. I mean, listen, she was not chasing any boys, even John. So she wasn't like. She wasn't trying to stay in touch with me to get information. She, in fact, she kind of, like, was, like, careful about, like, any interaction we had. Like, she didn't want it to seem even like she was like, trying to, like, get. Get information. She was. She was the ultimate cool girl. Like, even as John Kennedy, she did not care. She's like, she's Carolyn Bissette. She really knew more than any woman I've ever met, even before or since. Like, she really knew. She. She knew her worth in that way. In a way that was extraordinary for the 90s, going back to the 90s where women were just a little bit more like, you know, unsure where they were in the workplace, unsure where they were in the dating scene. You know, I mean, date rape had not been, you know, that was not even mentioned mentioned. It wasn't even a term. So she was. Yeah, she was. She was great. And then when they got back together after his mother passed away, then it was. It was on. It was like, right. They were getting married and then you were.

[Heather McDonald]

You actually had the princess title. Right. Explain how you became a princess.

[Carol Radziwill]

My husband Anthony's family were like the aristocracy in Poland for hundreds. And that.

[Heather McDonald]

Was that Lee's first husband?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, no, Lee got married actually when she was young, like 19 or 20, to Michael Canfield. But they were only married like two years. And then it was annulled. And then she married Anthony's dad, Stanislaus Albert.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay. And then did they stay married the.

[Carol Radziwill]

Whole time they were married? They end up divorcing. Like, when Lee was in the 70s, Anthony was probably like 16. So they were married for a long time.

[Heather McDonald]

When we see Lee's character, who Calista is playing, which we're getting back to the play that you.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, yeah, the play. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

But in the Swans, which I loved.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

But you. It was interesting because you.

[Carol Radziwill]

You newly.

[Heather McDonald]

And you guys stayed very close after her son. And. And you know, which is kind of really wonderful because sometimes when you hear, you know, about a young death of a son or whatever, sometimes the mother in law doesn't keep that relationship with the spouse or whatever, especially when there's not kids or something. So I think that linking us. So I think that's really cool.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, we had. It was. It was connected 20 years. She lived 20 years longer. And like, there were times when we would not see each other. It was hard in the beginning, and she was living in Paris, so. But I went to Paris to visit her a few times. And then. And then as the time wore on, it just Got easier and easier to be with her. And it was actually towards the end, what ended up being the end of her life. The last, like 10 years or five years. She was great. I mean, we would. We would have dinner at her apartment as the two of us. And like, she was really extraordinary. And I think people don't even understand the depth of what she really was because she's always couched next to Jackie. But she was, she had. She was so intelligent, so curious about everything. Like, she could talk politics, culture. And then the one thing about. About her, one of the things I admired about her was she wasn't nostalgic at all about this life she had led, like in the 60s. 60s. And she could have been. I mean, people lead less glamorous, less interesting lives that cling to those stories. You know, you hear them over and over again. Oh, God, is that going to be me? No, that's me when I was on Roni.

[Heather McDonald]

No, we'll get to Roni.

[Carol Radziwill]

But you didn't even talk about Roni.

[Heather McDonald]

So you haven't even gotten to Rooney yet. Come on.

[Carol Radziwill]

But she wasn't nostalgic and it was just refreshing. And she was. She was fucking fantastic. She was fantastic. And yeah, she's. I didn't see the Swan, so I think. But I did have the opportunity to meet Calista because I invested in this play. And now I'm getting sort of trying to get into theater a little bit. And I love theater. I think it's. What's the name of the play? It's an old Sam Shepard play wrote in 19, I think, 77, called the Curse of the Starving Class. It's very relevant today. It's. It's starring Calista Flockhart. She plays the mother. And Christian Bale, another 90s guy. He's fantastic. He plays the husband. And then sort of these two newcomers. Cooper Hoffman is the son. He's kind of the main character. And he's Philip Seymour Hoffman's son.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wow.

[Carol Radziwill]

Unbelievable. He's like 19 years old. He's so good. And then Stella Marcus is a young girl. She plays. Plays the daughter. And this is such a brilliant cast. And this is off Broadway. It's a not for profit theater. It's. It's one of the. It's just been extraordinary to be able to see from table read to studio rehearsal to tech rehearsal, which is what we're in now, tech rehearsal on previews, and it opens in a couple weeks, the work that these actors do. Like, I saw it from table readers only like a month ago. Now they're totally off book. They're. They're in preview. So anyone can go see the play now in preview previews. And they're perfect.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, it's extraordinary, like, what they can do to bring. Because I read the play. It's very dense, very intense, kind of dark play. And you're reading it and you're like, wow, I don't know how to get through this. The minute the actors start talking the dialogue and. And doing whatever the hell they do, it's just like, it comes to life. It's. It's really interesting. It's the thing that I really love about New York. As I was saying, the other day, I went to see Bridget Jones Diary. You can't get more, like, pop and fun and cutesy. And then. And then I went to tech rehearsal for Curse of the Starving class. And it's just the greatest thing about New York that you can go at any day, any night and go see off Broadway, this intense, incredibly interesting play and that is totally relevant today. And. And then in the. And then the next day, see, like, a Bridget Jones movie, like, premiere. Yeah, premiere with, like, Renee Zellweger and, like, and, you know, gorgeous Leo Woodall. Like, it's just, like. It's just a great thing.

[Heather McDonald]

That's why it was funny talking to everyone.

[Carol Radziwill]

Should go see this play, by the way. I don't know. I'll link it in my Instagram.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. No, I'll share. No, I'll share it.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay. I'll give you the link. And it's super cheap food. It's not like Broadway. The tickets are, like, $70.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

And the theater, Signature Theater is small, so it's, like, very interesting. You feel like you're part of the whole production. And by the way, there's a sheep, a live sheep in it. I won't give it away.

[Heather McDonald]

So you met. So you met Calista?

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, I met Klissa because she came over to me after the table read because we all went around and said our names and whatever, and. And she said, you know, she played my mother in law, and. And then she said this. Really. First of all, she is gorgeous. She's so striking in person. And I just. I just was like, she kind of looks like my mother in law. Like, the high cheekbones, wide eyes. I was like, damn, I thought it.

[Heather McDonald]

Was a good cast.

[Carol Radziwill]

It's a good cast. And she said that she had read something or heard something I had said about Lee that she would repeat in interviews, and she was just so lovely. About it, I'm going to forget. I guess I said something in relation to Lee always being in the shadow of Jackie. I said, lee was never. Lee was never the shadow. She was, she was, she was the star. She was the sun and the stars. And I guess Calista had read that somewhere and she would say that in interviews and stuff. She goes, I think they cut it out a lot because I think, I think they wanted to perpetuate that there's.

[Heather McDonald]

A sibling rivalry and all that. Guys, I have the juiciest inside scoop on my hair, okay? So, you know, I have been dyeing my hair for a couple decades now. I have to color the gray roots and I do two different colors to highlight it. And, you know, oftentimes it feels really dry. And there was a moment where I was like, am I gonna just have to stop coloring it all together? That is why I absolutely love K18's leave in molecular hair mask. This game changer repaired all the damage I put my hair through at the deepest molecular level for immediate and lasting results in just four minutes. So now I have hair like new. No matter what bleach or color or what I put it through with the foils and everything else. And you can too. Try it for yourself at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase with code [e-mail]. That's code [e-mail]. Birthdays, anniversaries, weddings. Whatever the occasion, it just got a little more personal with meaningful photo gifts from Shutterfly. Add a silly photo to a gold rimmed mug for your bestie. Put your sweet puppy on a cozy fleece blanket for your teen. Gift your husband a desktop plaque featuring all the kids. Enjoy. 40% off orders over $29 with code [e-mail] and make something that means something. Moms tired of overthinking every decision around what's best for your kids. Stop get Smarty pants vitamins and worry about one less thing. Smarty Pants Kids Multi and omegas support kids overall health with 16 daily nutrients including vitamin C from you support and D3 for bone health. That's 45% more nutrients than the leading kids multigummy brand. Seems like a no brainer, right? Get Smarty Pants on Amazon today. Speaking of which, you know there's all these because you're part of this, you know, Kennedy situation. You know, they. One of my favorites was Gray gardens with Edie, which was like Lee is buried next to big E D and that is Lee. And Jackie's cousin was big Edie. Yes, yes, right. And she had this fancy home, but she and her daughter, like, just so anyway, I mean, I, I said it to Sonia. I'm like, it was like Gray Gardens with that townhouse with you. And she like, you know, is laughing on the, the whole thing. And I go, do you still have these interns? You know, and she's like, oh, yeah, you know, they helped me with my only fans. You know, I'll show some feet for the pervs. But they really help because, you know that I, like, I put it all together and then they have it in a Dropbox and, you know, then they can distribute it. And I go, do you pay the. She's like, no, no, no. They get school credit.

[Carol Radziwill]

I'm like, they know it's getting credit. School credit is hosting a 60 year.

[Heather McDonald]

Old woman's only fans. They're not getting credit. Anyway, she goes, but you know what.

[Carol Radziwill]

They have a great life.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, do you want to work at a Barnes and Noble and like, barely get to afford your sweetgreens? Or go with me to a fashion show and hang out with Josh Fly? She's like, come on, I'm showing them the greatest life ever. And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure, like, you're so entertaining.

[Carol Radziwill]

And I'm sure it's fun for fun for them. I don't think they're getting any kind of school credit, but they'd have to be in school. I don't know. I don't know how that works.

[Heather McDonald]

Maybe she saw Baby Girl and now she's like, ah, let me have some other interns that do more than just post the comments. But she, but some of the comments were like, she was so funny, entertaining. It's somewhere like, wow, this is kind of, you know, saddened that she was on this show and they, you know, got all new cast. We don't know if they're ever coming back. And you know, Luann is doing great with her cabaret. You know, Bethany obviously has her thing going, Jill has her thing going. And you know, but like, you, you see that. Sonia's like, no, I mean, I'm modeling lingerie. I'm doing only fans. I can't do traders because I have to do my cameos. And then it like, you know, and then I'm doing this cabaresque show and all these other things. And some people were like, wow, like you were a housewife. You were married to this like, you know, billionaire or whatever. And I'm like, I wonder if there should be A little program just like they now have with a lot of football players to be like, you're going to be making this much money. We want to teach you not just put you with an advisor that can steal your money, but we want to teach you, like, to not be overly generous with your money, with family, or how to keep it going. And da, da, da. And I kind of wonder, like, well, we all know that you guys don't get paid a lot, but weck, when you guys did it, you were not. The cast wasn't paying for personal glam and giving them hotel rooms and taking them on the trips. And I'm like, no. At a certain point, like, as a housewife consultant, I'm like, learn how to fill in your own eyebrow. Like, seriously, like, before your house forecloses on. Just because you're on Housewives. Like. Like, I know you have to have this perception that, like, oh, I'm gonna have this fancy party and they make you pay for your own parties and things.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But at the same time, like, don't be in the red.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

After being on a show that makes. That makes the franchise, you know, whatever. $300 million, like, it's so.

[Carol Radziwill]

It's like a half a billion dollars now, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we didn't fly around glam or anything. I'm trying to think. I mean, I mean, I wasn't overspending. I was. I was not pretending to be richer than I was. I was just being, you know, I was just like, this is my life. I live downtown. I love my apartment. It's a, you know, one bedroom. It's perfect. Yeah. And, you know, I'm not trying to be rich. I'm trying to seem like I'm rich and not flying in hair, makeup. But, yeah, I think there is a. There's a lot of. Because the potential. Like, after the fourth season, you do start getting paid, you know, a decent amount. But. But, you know, after you take out, like, wardrobe, hair, makeup, all that stuff, like, if you're really overspending there. Yeah, that could go. That could be your whole salary.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, it really is, you know, and. And then there, I guess now it maybe is a little different because they make a lot of money on social media. That didn't exist when I first started on Housewives. Can you believe it? Like, Instagram launched the same year I was on the show. Like, no one knew Instagram was. Like, no one was doing brand deals. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, I don't think until, like, Kim really started, like, oh, I should Be paid per post. And then. Yeah, she really kind of paved the way for, like, everybody to then make money off of it. And. And you're right, that probably didn't really start happening until, like, around 2010.

[Carol Radziwill]

Ish. Well, I started in 2011. Instagram didn't launch until 2011.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, okay. So I'm thinking Twitter. Yeah, you're right.

[Carol Radziwill]

Twitter was. Twitter announced the same In March of 2008, the same month that Roni announced.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

So there wasn't even Twitter when roni Originally seasons 1, 2. Like, Twitter was just in its infancy.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. And you told me that, you know, the new Roni girls that you've met with.

[Carol Radziwill]

I don't know who's on it now. I mean, I've met the ones that were on it maybe last year. I don't know if they switched them up.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

Or are they switching.

[Heather McDonald]

No, there's all the same. They just added Rebecca Minkoff.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

And then she already announced she's not coming back. And it wasn't really. It wasn't really a good fit, but I don't feel like really any of them really were. It's just so different because they're all like, you know, they didn't know each other before, and they're just like, what. What made it. You know, what Sonya said is it just shouldn't have been called Roni. It should have been called, like, something. I don't know what else you call it had we call it. But I think that's where, you know, Roni wanted to. I don't know. But, yeah, I get why they had to call it.

[Carol Radziwill]

I think just, like, people are nostalgic for the 90s and, you know, and like the Bridget Jones and the. And the, you know, John and Carolyn story. My story. I think they're. I think there's a little nostalgia for, like, the old original and cast and whatever.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, in their defense, when you guys came on, there wasn't really a way, even if you wanted to, to watch them all on Peacock and study it and then go, ooh, I gotta have a storyline. And then I've gotta bring up this Starkie thing and then act like, I didn't mean to bring it up. Did I just say that? And you guys were just living in the moment.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then you were all smart and funny and had that New York, like, no bullshit way about you that would just get you to, like, say it in your own funny point of view. But again, it was never like, super mean or snarky. Like, even, like, you Know, with Ramona and stuff, it's like she just is who she is and she's just not really self. Aware.

[Carol Radziwill]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

But then everyone says, like, you know, when you need her, like if someone passes or something, like, she's still there as a great friend.

[Carol Radziwill]

Friend. But she has all those girlfriends.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

All this.

[Heather McDonald]

Girlfriend. You know, I mean, she's a girlfriend. I'm not gonna apologize for it. You know what? I'm not gonna apologize for having a bunch of gorgeous friends that happen to be 1 percenters. I mean, they're probably. I mean, you know, how many people are 1%? I mean, they're probably like a 0.5%. They're like, really? Really. You know, and it doesn't change them because I have the biggest heart of anybody I know. The biggest heart of anyone I know. And. But that's who she is. It's like, like, from face to. Based on, like, her age, where she. Where her bubble is. Like, that's what made it fun. We don't. We wanted to see these people that lived in a place. New York City. We don't live there.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I want to see what your life is like. You don't have to apologize. But I get why someone gets on it now and is going to be way more self conscious because they've seen that, you know, what happens to people or that, you know, canceled or they. This. This one thing they said haunted them for the next 10 years. Like, I totally get it. And it's not their fault, but it's why the joy of the show has changed.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, it's playing for. They're playing for the show and they're playing for social media.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

And we didn't really have that. I mean, towards the. You know, they definitely didn't have it in the first six seasons of Roni.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

And then when Instagram really started, like, when people really were aware that this could be monetized and brand collabs, and then people were retweeting and reposting things. But what we had, we had like, blogs. Like, you had to do that. We had to write blogs. But also they were like housewife bloggers. There was one called Stupid Housewives S T O O P I D. And they were like, so mean. But it was just like a blog, Right. It was a fucking tiktoker where you're like, you know, like there's a video of you saying some stupid fucking thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

And. And then it plays over and over and over again. I just think the cast now is just dealing With a whole other host of things. And I think in, in a way you're right. Everyone study. Everyone can study it now maybe it's a bit studied and a bit like they know they can make their money off. They're going to make their money in social media with brand deals. So they're not going to, they're not gonna take their top off and make.

[Heather McDonald]

Out with each other and jump in, even think about that. They have to really protect their business and their ability to make money. You're right.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. Because you really don't get paid. I think they still probably get like $60,000 a year.

[Heather McDonald]

A season.

[Carol Radziwill]

A season. And you're filming for a really long time. Months. We filmed a couple seasons, like five months of film filming. And then you. And then it doesn't end there. Then you're doing the promotion and the marketing and the blogging and you have to screen it and then do watch what happens live. It's a lot. It's not just like this finite little chunk of time and then you can go off and like live your life. You're constantly, you know, and then you're gearing up for the reunion and then you have the reunion, then you're gearing.

[Heather McDonald]

Up for the next couple things.

[Carol Radziwill]

So 60,000 after hair, makeup and taxes. You're very aware that you're going to make a lot more money on social media now than you are from the show in those first few seasons.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. And I think that. So we are filming this in the world famous Lowe's Regency, where the Regency bar is downstairs, which is, you know, please don't say it's about tomorrow. When Bethany had a, you know, a friend just happened to send her a photo of Tom in a compromising position who was engaged at Luann at the time with some other woman. And last time you came on the show you actually found out.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Who was responsible for taking the photo.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yes. Sending it. Yes. And it was Michael Cohen.

[Heather McDonald]

Michael Cohen, who was friends with Bethany's boyfriend at the time, Dennis. Yes, Michael Cohen. Donald Trump's former attorney.

[Carol Radziwill]

Attorney.

[Heather McDonald]

And then. So he got the call, the text to go down and take a photo.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yes, he took the photo. I mean, let me just say I had not thought about that in many, many years. I had no interest in. I didn't care one bit about any of those characters.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. Because you weren't on that season anymore.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, I was.

[Heather McDonald]

Wait, are you on the season? You were on the season of the Tom. Yes. You were on the trip when she's shaking with The Beth with the.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, that was Miami. I was on, like, two seasons.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Carol Radziwill]

I can't remember where, but. But I had been off the show for several years and not thinking about it at all when I was having dinner with my friend who was a movie director, and. And Michael Cohen walked in and. And was trying to pitch my friend to do his book as a movie and sat down. And I mean, I thought, oh, God, I'm just. I do not want to. Dinner with Michael Cohen and, you know, Trump's attorney. And he actually turned out to be so funny, so crazy. He knew all the housewives, like, literally knew. He lived in the same building as Dorinda, like, 20 years ago. He knew Ramona. He knew all of them. And he knew Bethany through her then boyfriend and Luann. All of them.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Carol Radziwill]

And he said he had even met me before, but I didn't remember it because he was close to Aviva.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, I was like. And then he. Then he said, oh, do you. And then. And then he said something about Tom and Luann, and he was like, well, you know, I took that picture. Like, he just literally. And I was like, wait a minute, What? And he told me the whole story.

[Heather McDonald]

That he got the. Got the message from.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. I think it was like a setup. I think the whole thing was a setup.

[Heather McDonald]

So that the girl had been talking to Tom, and it was like, I'm gonna go see him at this bar.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Someone takes a photo and texts, sends it. And then Bethany can act like she was this great friend trying to stop this. But when I've talked to Luann, it was like, I have said, like, do you ever think, well, maybe, you know, she was giving you a gift to maybe, like, not marry him.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And. Yes. But at the same time, it was one of those kind of what I'm talking about, those mean moments where you do it on camera.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, you could have easily been, like, off camera. Like, I gotta tell you something.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, but when you're on the reality show, you can't do it off camera. Camera. If it happens, it happens. I think the mean part of it, it was setting the whole thing up to begin with.

[Heather McDonald]

Setting it up to begin.

[Carol Radziwill]

Text me. She didn't.

[Heather McDonald]

She didn't just get the thing said to her. Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

No. Out of the blue.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, I. I think it was so long ago, but she was. She. She knew that this girl was going to meet Tom.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

I think she had met this woman. I mean, good luck or bad luck or whatever. Like, she had met this woman in this woman said, oh, I still. I still hang out with Tom.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Text me the next time you're going to be with him. So it was kind of set up like that, but. And once it happens, and whatever was set up, it happens. You can't say off camera. Yeah. You can't just do it off camera.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. No, but the shaking of the skinny girl was always good. That was always good. Get that in there. Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, I remember walking in, I'm like, I don't understand. You seem more upset than Luann. Luann was like, in the hallway at one point. She was like, oh, Jesus, now gotta deal with this.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like Bethlehem was crying. It was so crazy. It was so crazy.

[Heather McDonald]

But it was so good. Like, it really was so good. Like someone watching it. You know, the other. The other thing that you mentioned last time you were on was when you went on your one date with Prince Andrew. And that was a long time ago. It was like, right after your widow. And you said you spent some time in London for the holidays. And I mean, talk about, you know, dodging a bullet.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, I didn't know it. I didn't know at the time. I mean, I don't still know anything. Right. But I didn't even think of it really as a date. I just thought, you know, he was like. I don't know, he was being nice. He's the prince, so he's just like the Minister of Tourism almost. Yeah. And we end up going to the ballet and to dinner and. And he was. He's, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Did he sweat?

[Carol Radziwill]

Did he ever sweat?

[Heather McDonald]

Remember, he says he doesn't sweat.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, he does.

[Heather McDonald]

I have a disease that keeps him from sweating.

[Carol Radziwill]

Well, he didn't sweat. No. But I saw him only with his clothes on at dinner. So I don't know. But. But yeah, that was. That. That was my. My only experience with him. I'd seen him a couple times after that. Listen, everyone, you know, would you.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, now, I asked Sonia this. You know, these ultimate girl trips that I am spending. All my Christian hours. I have to do Christian service hours for myself are spent trying to get Christian hours. When you're. When you go to Catholic school that you always have to do a certain amount of Christian.

[Carol Radziwill]

But when did you go to Catholic school?

[Heather McDonald]

When I was little. But it's in my head. I don't. I just am, like, whenever I do something nice for someone, I go, oh, good, I got my Christian service hours in. It's just something I say.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, okay.

[Heather McDonald]

So one of my Christian service things that I'm doing is to get Ultimate Girls trip back on the air because I think it's a win. Win for everybody involved. They only film for one week.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, it's lucrative.

[Heather McDonald]

They pay the girls good. Yeah. We get to see all the OGs.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, you do?

[Heather McDonald]

They Sometimes they're from all one season, but. No, no, no. Normally they've been mixing them, but I'm fine for doing old season one week and just have them be nostalgic. Like. And I know they were trying. They were going to do that with the New York girls and then, like, fell apart.

[Carol Radziwill]

And then this thing happened with crony oil girls. Then all the.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wait, they did. They did. You're right. They did that. And you know what? It wasn't really. It was okay.

[Carol Radziwill]

But do they. They mix them up with other girls?

[Heather McDonald]

They should probably.

[Carol Radziwill]

Now.

[Heather McDonald]

Now. Now that you say they should mix up. It was still fun, but it was like. Like, it would have been Jill. Jill was supposed to do it. And then Jill was like, I want to be paid the same as everyone else, which is completely fair and whatever. There was a big thing. I still think we could bring it back. But they haven't done any for, like, two years because they did one. And Brandi Glanville allegedly groped Caroline Manzo.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

And then there was, like, a lawsuit. So they. We never will see that one. Oh, Morocco. Which was like Camille Grammer and, like, Gretchen Rossi. Like, people that we like. Alex McCord. Like, it was like a good. It was like a weird mix.

[Carol Radziwill]

That's interesting.

[Heather McDonald]

And so I actually am also starting a class action lawsuit of Bravo viewers that want to sue Bravo for the ability to watch this thing because we're never gonna see it. And I talk about it so much, but no.

[Carol Radziwill]

Why don't they cut out those parts? Cut out.

[Heather McDonald]

I just think Brandi and Caroline, I.

[Carol Radziwill]

Don'T know, cut them out.

[Heather McDonald]

I think you just will get people talking. And they want everyone to forget about it. And they're like, heather, shut up. You keep bringing it up. Okay, so I want him to. Would you. If they bring it back, would you do a one week thing? Real, like, of the like. Like, like an ultimate girls trip, one week where they take you to Hawaii or something with a mix of women. And you guys all kind of like.

[Carol Radziwill]

Ask each other, do you get to pick what women? How does it. Do you get to pick what women?

[Heather McDonald]

No, you don't get to pick. No.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, they just put people together. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

They just say, are you down? And this is the week. And Will you go? And I'm just saying, because you've not really done any of the stuff since you left, since you said to Andy, oh, are you afraid of her, too?

[Carol Radziwill]

We had to bring that up. When you said that, I said, there's something that.

[Heather McDonald]

I know, but there's something about that moment that just, like, still, like, gives me chills. Because it was like, you know, it almost makes you feel like, you know, like he's the king. And then all of a sudden, you see that someone, you know has said something, and it's like, yeah, against the king. And then it's like, oh, shit.

[Carol Radziwill]

You know, I did not have an oh, shit moment after I saw it.

[Heather McDonald]

I know you didn't. That's what's so good. Cause you're like, yeah. Like, you're like. But that's what was so good about it. But would you go. Would you do an Ultimate Girls Trip?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, it would be. I mean, do it. I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

Just say yes.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

So, like, yeah, I'm gonna make this happen. We're gonna bring this.

[Carol Radziwill]

But who would.

[Heather McDonald]

Ultimate Girls Trip. Maybe they call it something else.

[Carol Radziwill]

I don't know any women.

[Heather McDonald]

Maybe they call it. They should call it Bravo Getaway. That's what they should call it, a Bravo Getaway. And you could even throw some guys in there or something. And it's just Bravo. Celebrities that we all love because, like, right now they're doing Traders.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And people really like it, but they mix them with, like, Survivor and Big Brother and none of those shows I watch.

[Carol Radziwill]

What about Housewives with, like, below Debt?

[Heather McDonald]

That's what I'm saying. That's what Bravo. That's what we call it. Bravo Getaway.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And it's a vacation for a week or two with a mix of people.

[Carol Radziwill]

Two weeks. Maybe a week.

[Heather McDonald]

A week. Okay, fine. A week. And it's a mix of people. And you could throw in some. Some other. Some men as well.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. No, no.

[Heather McDonald]

No men.

[Carol Radziwill]

No. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Only girls. Okay, fine.

[Carol Radziwill]

Women are more fun. All right. You know, they get.

[Heather McDonald]

Just trying to put. Try to get people to work, you know? Okay.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. No, no. Some. Is that, like, Harry Dubin kind of people? No. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Did I tell you that I hung out with Harry Dubin when I was in Palm Beach?

[Carol Radziwill]

No, but I'm not surprised.

[Heather McDonald]

I went to this bar, and Ramona was there. She was very nice in Palm Beach. And later on, had lunch with Ramona. But Harry Dubin came on by, and this woman was like, I'm gonna marry Harry Dubin. And I'm like, does he know that? It was very weird. Like, women want him. Women want him, and he's flirting with me, and I'm like, I'm married, and I just don't think that matters. Just people. But whatever. He. You know. Yeah. You were there then when the leg was thrown, right?

[Carol Radziwill]

Of course, yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And the story, like. Yeah, we all know that this story is that she knew. She had this planned, like, planned out. The only thing fake about me. Yeah. Is this leg. And when do you think she got the idea to throw it? Do you think she got it before she ever took the role?

[Carol Radziwill]

No, no, I think she got it because she got the idea to do it after she didn't go to the trip. Because I feel like she realized that that was a major, like, mistake to.

[Heather McDonald]

Miss all those days of filming and interaction.

[Carol Radziwill]

Because I think contractually you have to. Contractually, it's like, you really obligate to go on the cast trip and the reunion. Or maybe it's changed.

[Heather McDonald]

No, I know. The reunion. Or if you don't do it, like when Lisa Vanderpump didn't do it, I believe she told me she gave up $250,000.

[Carol Radziwill]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Not to be there, to talk about puppy gaming.

[Carol Radziwill]

Right. Well, she probably did, because it's probably three episodes and she gets paid per episode X amount of money. So maybe it added up to $200,000.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like, if you're not on the episodes.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. She had to give that up.

[Carol Radziwill]

But if you don't go to the cast trip, it's just like, there's some things. And I think probably she realized. Oh, shoot, that was. That was messed up there. So she was just trying to do something that would be so dramatic. Can you believe that? Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. It's one of the best scenes ever, because then she.

[Carol Radziwill]

She didn't come back after that because.

[Heather McDonald]

I can't remember your. I can't remember your reaction, but I remember just the way I. I gave her the.

[Carol Radziwill]

I remember giving her the leg back, and I was like, you need. You need help. You need to get help. I gave her the leg back after she threw it across the.

[Heather McDonald]

How heavy was it?

[Carol Radziwill]

It's not. It's not that heavy. It's.

[Heather McDonald]

Did you put it back on the table or did you.

[Carol Radziwill]

I handed it to her because she.

[Heather McDonald]

Put it out on the table and then she threw it.

[Carol Radziwill]

And then she threw it because.

[Heather McDonald]

And then Ramona told me that originally Ramona said that she also had a plan that Harry, who was her Exact.

[Carol Radziwill]

Harry to carry her out. Yeah, Harry told me, too, that that's what she wanted. And Harry's like, I'm not doing that. That would have been so good. That would have been so good. See, there's, like, this. There's.

[Heather McDonald]

There's not a moment like that.

[Carol Radziwill]

No.

[Heather McDonald]

In the two seasons of Roni or any or very other. A lot of other shows, like, very few shows have multiple hilarious moments. And I think that's why the fans just, like, adore anyone from, like, your era of Roni. Of the original Roni.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, well, yeah, it's. It's nostalgia and it's. It's just. It was like. I thought it was, like, a lot of comedy in the. Especially in the first. It started getting a little darker. I could see it kind of turning the last couple of. Couple of seasons and then just started getting.

[Heather McDonald]

When they cast. When they cast, like, Leah and.

[Carol Radziwill]

Well, then surely. But even when I was still on it, it just felt like there was, like, you know, there's a lot. A lot of, like, not just setups, like, setting up Tom and like, that was kind of like.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

But, like, opposition research. Like, just, like, trying to, like, really, you know, mess with other. With some other cast and leaking of stories, putting in fake stories and Page Six or this and that. Like, I just saw, like, it just started getting a little, like, mean. Like, and not, like, funny crazy. Like, mean crazy. Yeah. Plotting difference. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I think when there's plotting, that's when I get turned off. Yeah. Like, when you're really plotting to, like, hurt someone's livelihood or do it because you don't. You feel like you don't have enough going on. And I'm like, listen, if your life is what it is, that's fine as long as you're a funny commentary commentator. Funny in the moment. But if you're not, then you're like, well, I better pretend that I'm gonna have a baby at 50, when we all know you don't want. No, there's a new girl that is very likable. She's on Beverly Hills. But I'm not the first one saying it, but people are like, I don't believe this story. She's 48, and she already has a daughter who's, like, 16. She says, no, she hasn't. She says she's got this new boyfriend that she hasn't even said, I loved. I love you, too. But they're all their conversations and things are about having a baby. But she also had to have fibroid surgery. The Whole thing doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

[Carol Radziwill]

Like she's having a surrogate.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, no, like she says, I want to carry it myself. I'm like, are you in like crazy town? What are you talking about?

[Carol Radziwill]

See, that kind of stuff is. And I mean, yeah, and I'm like a model for.

[Heather McDonald]

It's one thing if she maybe had never had a kid, but like, she already has like a 16 year old daughter, she's a widow. And then she. This guy that like comes on and they have not even said I love you. And then she goes and has dinners with, you know, Dorit and Erica to talk about her plan to have a child with this man who. She doesn't say I love you. They don't live together, they're not engaged. It's not like they're married.

[Carol Radziwill]

Is she starting like IVF and all that?

[Heather McDonald]

That's what I'm saying. I think it's a bullshit. I think it's a kind of a BS thing of like. Well, what could. What. What could up my. All I have going on right now is I've got a 16 year old daughter and I'm kind of dating this guy. So what could up it? And I do think, you know, when you watched it for 20 years or whatever, 17 years, and your cast, you're like, I need to like make a splash. And I can't just be there saying snarky marks about, you know, someone's outfit. Like, I gotta have something going on. Because it's the audience that keeps saying, you don't have a good storyline. You don't have. I'm like, well, what about the woman who's like, no, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna get divorced or tell you that, you know, I have some horrible ailment or something. Like, well, I'm not doing that. So if that doesn't make my life interesting, then, like, then I guess I'm out. Like, who cares?

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah, I mean, you really. You have to be. You have to be. It's a hard job. It's hard to do. You have to be very clever and. And funny and authentic. Like, you really just have to really be. And hopefully you have an interesting enough life that you. But if you're not. I always find if you're not really funny, that's when you start like having babies and like, you know, like when.

[Heather McDonald]

Ramona was trying to say she was.

[Carol Radziwill]

Pregnant, honey, that's menopause.

[Heather McDonald]

And they're on the yacht and she's.

[Carol Radziwill]

Peeing on a stick I wasn't on that season, but I heard those.

[Heather McDonald]

Marina, we have sex every Tuesday. And, you know, I'm like, you know what?

[Carol Radziwill]

I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. I had Avery when I was 40, so now that I'm 54, doesn't mean.

[Carol Radziwill]

I miss my period. Like, honey, you're in perimenopause.

[Heather McDonald]

Or full blown.

[Carol Radziwill]

Or full blown at 50.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my gosh. This was so fun. Thank you so much. I'm really excited. I want to see your book become a play. I want the play to be a big hit that you're investing in. Thanks for all the scoop.

[Carol Radziwill]

Did I give you any scoop?

[Heather McDonald]

I feel like you did. I loved it.

[Carol Radziwill]

Oh, good. Because I like to get.

[Heather McDonald]

And then I spoiled baby girl for you and rewrote it. So we got a lot done. Yeah.

[Carol Radziwill]

And then who's gonna play me in the. Ryan Murphy.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes. I want to hear from people I.

[Carol Radziwill]

Watched about when that was announced. I didn't even know that. I mean, I don't really think that I'm gonna be part of it.

[Heather McDonald]

Because your character. Yes, it is.

[Carol Radziwill]

I mean, if it was true, I would be, but I don't think it's like. It's just.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you have any ideas?

[Carol Radziwill]

No. People started DMing me pictures of Miley Cyrus, and I was like, why am I getting all these pictures of Miley Cyrus? And then. And then I was.

[Heather McDonald]

The only thing is, she has such a distinct voice.

[Carol Radziwill]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

Deep. It's very kind of smoky that I don't. I don't think she could probably.

[Carol Radziwill]

No, she's much too interesting looking and, like. Yeah, but I don't think I was literally.

[Heather McDonald]

But I know I want to find a better person that I think that could get your. That actually has the acting chops to get, like, your mannerisms down.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

I'm going to find it.

[Carol Radziwill]

Okay. Thank you.

[Heather McDonald]

Thank you. Love you. Thanks, everyone. Remember, go to heathermcdall.net because I'll be in Palm Springs March 1st at the Agua Caliente. And you want to get those tickets. Thank you.

[Carol Radziwill]

Bye.